# Help With Roommate



## Kim Insko (Oct 31, 2001)

Hello all,I am new to this particular section of the BB, but am having some problems with my roommate. A little background:In August of last year, I moved in with a friend. I was in need of a place to move to and she was in need of a roommate. The rent is dirt cheap which is perfect for me. We had some understandings before I moved in, but apparantly, not enough. Anyway, she thinks she has CFS. Her doctors have thought she has it as well, so off to a specialist, who disagrees. She has been tested for everything under the sun and nothing. It was thought by her and her family that having me move in would do her some good. Maybe motivate her. I have IBS-D and about a year ago found myself extremely tired, so when my doctor suggested CFS, I immediately started more physical activities trying to stop it. It has worked for me. Even though we keep our lives separate, which is what I like, I suggested that she join me at the pool. She bought a pass and everything, came a couple of times and didn't feel anything, so quit coming. When I moved in some 6 months ago, she had to empty out the spare bedroom for me, that stuff, alot of stuff, is still in the upstairs living room and has not been dealt with. I finally in late december moved it upstairs, so that I could at least use more of the basement, but the kitchen and everything is upstairs. If I was to have someone over for dinner or something, I would be embarrassed to have them in the dining room with all the #### that is there. I keep trying to offer my help, but she won't take it. She just sits on the couch and trys to watch tv through all the boxes. I find myself quite stressed out living in clutter and I think it may be adding to her fatigue, just to look at it. Also, I have known the lady since highschool (some 20 years) and never knew she was so lazy. I'm sorry, it is not that I don't think she has CFS, I just think that she isn't doing all I think she can to help herself. I am torn, because I can't afford to move out right now, but am also very very frustrated.Any suggestions???!!!Thanks bunches,Kimba


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## M&M (Jan 20, 2002)

Hi Kimba!I'm really so very glad you posted your question here. A lot of people wonder the same things you're wondering, but just grow resentful instead of looking for more information. I bet if you knew how many people ask the same question, you'd be surprised!I could post a million different things to answer your questions. For now I'm going to stick to 3 main points, because if I chose more than 3 I'd forget some of them







1) If your roommate truly has CFIDS, her lack of activity could be completely due to her poor health. There is a huge range of diversity in the CFIDS spectrum, much like the diversity in the IBS spectrum. Some people feel a little ill, but are pretty much able to do all their normal things, others are so ill as to be completely disabled. (I am speaking from experience, as I am one of those disabled by the disease) Some people are so ill with CFIDS they are completely bed-ridden, and others are wheel-chair bound. Many, even if not bed-ridden or wheelchair bound, must spend the majority of their day conserving what little energy they do have for the really important stuff. It could be that your roommate falls into the more extreme end of the spectrum, much like myself. If this is true, her actions (or lack of actions) are not due to laziness, but due to an inability to do what needs doing as a result of a disabling illness.2) Your roommate may also be suffering from Clinical Depression. She may be battling the double curse of CFIDS and Major Clinical Depression. Or, she may only be suffering from Major Clinical Depression. If this is true, again her actions (or lack of actions) are not due to laziness, but due to an inability to do what needs doing as a result of disabling illness.3) Your statement


> quote:when my doctor suggested CFS, I immediately started more physical activities trying to stop it. It has worked for me.


This is quite intriguing to me! Studies have shown, that on average, CFIDS patients do not recover due to physical activites, on the contrary the majority of CFIDS patients grow worse as physical activity is increased. There is a condition called "chronic fatigue" - this is prolonged fatigue. "Chronic fatigue" however, is different from "Chronic Fatigue Syndrome" (CFS or CFIDS - Chronic Fatigue Immune Dysfunction Syndrome which is another, more descriptive name for CFS). The main difference between "chronic fatigue" and CFS/CFIDS is that chronic fatigue is explainable, and treatable. CFS/CFIDS usually does not improve. Some patients do enjoy "remission periods" from time to time, but that does not mean they are all better. I only mention this as you seem to feel you prevented your body from "developing" CFS by your physical activity. According to the diagnositc criteria of the Centers for Disease Control, this is impossible. So, it wouldn't be prudent to blame your friend's CFS/CFIDS (if that is what she has) on her lack of physical activity. Anyway, my point is, if you got better after increasing your physical activity, you most likely did not have CFS/CFIDS. Furthermore, you said your doctor "suggested" CFS. What I'm reading from that, is that you were never diagnosed with it. That in itself is another indication that your increased physical activity did not prevent your CFS, because in reality you never had CFS.As far as how to deal with your roommate, it sounds like you need to understand her a little more before coming to any conclusion about her. As you know, many doctors don't believe in IBS, and many also do not believe in CFS/CFIDS. That doesn't mean it isn't real. I hope all of this makes sense, and is clear. I'm sure others will have more to add, and I might too in a few days! I also hope this information helps!







Edit to add:Oops, I already thought of something to add! lol To expect someone who is disabled by CFS/CFIDS to do the same things you do, or to be able to do a lot of things would be like if I expected you to eat one of your trigger foods for your IBS-D. Suppose dairy products are a trigger food for you. How would you feel if I said "Oh good grief, just eat the cheese! It's just cheese. Are you stupid? Cheese doesn't hurt anybody. I eat cheese all the time, and I'm fine"? How would that make you feel? Is that a reasonable or logical expectation for me to have? Should that be a requirement you have to meet? Should I consider you "not living up to your potential" if you refuse to eat that cheese? Just a little food for thought


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## Susan Purry (Nov 6, 2001)

Apologies if MrsMason already said some of this. Also my apologies if it seems a little abrupt - My eyes and brain are tired and I'm short on stamina. It's not our or your job to figure out your friend's diagnosis; it's quite possible that she has some other cause of her symptoms, but all that I write below presumes she has ME/CFS/CFIDS.


> quote:Anyway, she thinks she has CFS. Her doctors have thought she has it as well, so off to a specialist, who disagrees. She has been tested for everything under the sun and nothing.


Did you know that it is normal for all common test results to come back completely normal in a case of ME/CFS/CFIDS?


> quote:It was thought by her and her family that having me move in would do her some good. Maybe motivate her.


Motivation is rarely an issue with ME/CFS. In fact, people with ME/CFS have been found to be amongst the most highly motivated, driven and ambitious people that there are.


> quote:I have IBS-D and about a year ago found myself extremely tired, so when my doctor suggested CFS, I immediately started more physical activities trying to stop it.


Sounds like you didn't have CFS then, which must have been a great relief for you!







Exercise does not prevent or cure CFS. Exercising (whether that's swimming 30 laps or walking 30 yards) beyond individual capacity will worsen symptoms, delay recovery and cause relapse.


> quote:I keep trying to offer my help, but she won't take it.


From my own experience, I hate to accept help unless I absolutely need it. I like to be as independent as possible even though my illness (ME/CFS) drastically reduces my independence. I like to do things myself, especially if I feel they are my particular responsibility.


> quote:Also, I have known the lady since highschool (some 20 years) and never knew she was so lazy. I'm sorry, it is not that I don't think she has CFS, I just think that she isn't doing all I think she can to help herself.


Did I understand that correctly. You do think she has CFS, and you also think she is lazy? Laziness is not the issue. Extreme, colassal fatigue like you have never, ever imagined is the issue. Along with pain, cognitive dysfunction and a myriad of other symptoms caused by the effects of the illness on the endocrine, immune and nervous systems.


> quote:I am torn, because I can't afford to move out right now, but am also very very frustrated. Any suggestions???!!!


Talk to your friend gently and compassionately. Ask about her feelings about her illness. Ask if she will let you help out just a little more around the house. Ask if there is anything she would like you to do. Don't even think of offering your opinions on her laziness. If you'd like to learn more about CFS, we can offer you some easy reading. I know the effects of living in a stressful environment, so I know it can't be easy for you Kimba, but please think compassionately about your friend.


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## Kim Insko (Oct 31, 2001)

Maybe I am being misunderstood, because I don't necessarily think my roommate is lazy, but moreso if she has seen specialists dealing specifically with CFS and all the other related illnesses and they suggest to try certain things, I think she should try them. I totally believe in CFS, I also believe there are some things that can be done personally to help ourselves. No, I did not get diagnosed, it was suggested to me that IBS and CFS go hand in hand sometimes, at that point I decided to do something about my situation. I DO understand that she may have severe symptoms, but if that is the case, there are other issues. For example, she has a bit of a weight issue, as do I. So, why not eat high energy foods to see what they do for you rather than being on a strict diet to try and lose weight, which in turn may be depriving your body of the essential nutrients it needs. I have made the attempt to talk to her about this stuff, all she says is that I should be comfortable in the house too. I say that I am getting frustrated and stressed and only want to help, but nothing. Also, herself and her family keep telling me that me moving in with her is a good thing and it will eventually help her. That is alot of pressure on someone. I am so trying not to be selfish, but I never knew how bad it was until I moved in, and am now regretting it.I do appreciate all the advice though.Kimba


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## M&M (Jan 20, 2002)

> quote: I do appreciate all the advice though


I'm sorry Kimba, but I just don't believe you. You have no idea how much energy it took from myself, or from Susan to sit here and type you out such an easy to understand reply. If you don't want advice or guidance don't ask for it - And if you ask for it, listen to it, and consider it. Don't just dismiss it because it isn't what you wanted to hear. You need to do some serious soul searching as to why you are so judgemental, and focused on proving your friend to be wrong, lazy and unmotivated.


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## Kim Insko (Oct 31, 2001)

WHOA!! Back the bus up! I believe that I am anything but judgemental. I am just learning how to live with someone who has this illness and I'm not saying she doesn't have it. I am just having a hard time adjusting. I have talked to her, and intend to talk to her again with the offer of a helpful hand and ear if she wants or needs it. I also have some of her family members that are saying they aren't sure what is going on either. So, I guess I really don't know how to form into words what I am trying to say to express my feelings. I apologize if I used this posting incorrectly, but do appreciate all you have to say, and I AM listening.


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## Kim Insko (Oct 31, 2001)

SusanP, Yes I think I would like some information if you could email it to me, or point me to a link. I guess I just don't understand enough about it to not come across as uncaring and whatnot. Because that is not the case. Thanks very much.Kimba


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## Susan Purry (Nov 6, 2001)

*Myalgic Encephalomyopathy (ME)/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS)*.Resources** Also known as Chronic Fatigue Immune Dysfunction Syndrome (CFIDS). *WEBSITES* http://www.cfids-me.org/ CFIDS Association of America: http://www.cfids.org/ www.immunesupport.comCFS & Fibromyalgia Information Exchange Forum: www.co-cure.org*ARTICLES**Is there a diagnostic test for ME/CFS? * http://www.meassociation.org.uk/fgeninfo.htm


> quote:No. The diagnosis has to be made on the typical pattern of symptoms with exclusion of numerous other causes of chronic fatigue. Anyone who is suspected of having ME/CFS should have a number of routine blood tests by their GP as well as more specialised investigations if the diagnosis remains in doubt.


* CFS Diagnostic Criteria used in the USA * http://www.fmnetnews.com/pages/criteria.html


> quote: CHRONIC FATIGUE SYNDROME (CFS) Chronic fatigue syndrome is diagnosed using the CDC 1994 guidelines published in the Annuals of Internal Medicine 121(12):953-959. A copy of this article can be downloaded from the CDC (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention) Internet site at: http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/diseases/cfs/defined.htm To meet the criteria, patients must have: A. Fatigue Severe, unexplained fatigue that is not relieved by rest, which can cause disability and which has an identifiable onset (i.e., not lifelong fatigue). It must be persistent or relapsing fatigue that lasts for at least six or more consecutive months. B. Four or more of the following symptoms: impaired memory or concentration problems tender cervical or axillary lymph nodes in neck region (note that they do not have to be swollen but just tender; this can be a problem for people with FMS who have tenderness in these areas as well) sore throat (but may not show signs of infection) muscle pain multi-joint pain (but not arthritis) new onset headaches (tension-type or migraine) unrefreshing sleep (wake up in the morning feeling unrested) post-exertional malaise (fatigue, pain and flu-like symptoms after exercise


*Diagnosis and Description of CFS: National Institutes of Health 09-01-1999 * http://www.immunesupport.com/library/showarticle.cfm?ID=1181


> quote:Chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) is an illness characterized by prolonged, debilitating fatigue and multiple nonspecific symptoms such as headaches, recurrent sore throats, muscle and joint pains, and cognitive complaints. Profound fatigue, the hallmark of the disorder, can come on suddenly or gradually and persists or recurs throughout the period of illness. Unlike the short-term disability of an acute infection, CFS symptoms by definition linger for at least 6 months and often for yearsï¿½ï¿½Despite multidisciplinary investigations into the cause of CFS, its etiology remains unknown. Similarly, no specific diagnostic tests or therapies for CFS exist. A supportive program of patient management--including symptom-based treatment, education about the disease, and regular follow up visits to rule out alternative diagnoses--can offer reassurance, dispel unfounded beliefs about CFS or its treatment, and help patients and their families adjust to living with this chronic illnessï¿½ï¿½Besides a debilitating fatigue unrestored by rest, common symptoms of CFS include more intense or changed patterns of headaches; reduced short-term memory or concentration; recurrent sore throats; tender lymph nodes; muscle discomfort or pain; joint pain without joint swelling or redness; unrefreshing sleep; and postexertional malaise lasting more than 24 hours (table 1; see appendix for detailed list). The severity of CFS symptoms varies broadly among individualsï¿½ ï¿½Although CFS can persist for many years, longitudinal and followup studies indicate that CFS generally is not a progressive illness. The symptoms usually are most severe in the first year or two. Thereafter, the symptoms typically stabilize and then persist chronically, wax and wane, or improve. Most patients partially recover, some fully recover, and others recover and relapse. Currently, an individual's course of illness cannot be predicted. No long-term health risks, such as an increased risk of cancer, have been associated with having CFS.


What I really wanted to point you towards was a 'this is what life is like with CFS' page, because it's hard to put yourself in your friends shoes from just reading the above, but I haven't found one. Instead, you could ask her, or us if you wanted.


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## moldie (Sep 25, 1999)

Hi Kimba. I think you had some good responses here to your questions. I also know that your intentions are good ones. Your agreeing to try and help your friend out shows that you do have a good heart. It can be frustrating for your friend to have this condition, and also for her friends and family who do not fully understand it.There are many doctors who do not understand this condition as well. Some people are wrongly diagnosed. Some people are not diagnosed at all, because doctors are convinced that they are just seeking a way out of working for a living. Since there aren't any basic blood or simple x-ray tests that show it as a disease yet, they are unable to endorse a condition in which they see no scientific proof before them in their office tests, or they didn't learn about in med school.Many don't want to bother to explore this condition further. There are many conditions like ibs that don't have any basic tests that prove this condition as well. Asthma, Ulcers, MS, and others were found in the past to be possible conditions of the mind or do to stress. Specific testing has been developed now to document these conditions. I am confident that someday there will be answers to understanding ibs, cfs, fms, and other conditions as well. There are already general specific findings in these conditions, although the tests are a bit more obscure and not ones that M.D.s would do on a routine basis in their offices. I have been trying to find a doctor in my local facility that really believes in fms (although I did find one at a distant Medical College who is a professor as well.) My newest doctor stated that he thought he had fms when I asked him if he believed in it. On my next visit, I asked him what symptoms he had that made him think he had fms. He said that in the morning after sleeping and after sitting for prolonged periods, his legs ached and were stiff. He also said that when he exercised or got up and moved around that he felt better. I asked him if after he was on his feet too long, did his legs hurt or did he get more fatigued. He said "no." I also asked him if he had any neck and shoulder problems and he said "no." I mentioned the trigger points, and he ignored that one. It was clear to me this doctor really had no clue as to what fibromyalgia really was. It is a cluster of symptoms, not just one symptom. It does not go away with exercise.I thought to myself, "If he can't diagnose himself correctly, I don't know how he can diagnose me." In fact, when I came in with adhesive capsulitis (frozen shoulder), he never even touched my shoulder. Granted, maybe he felt it was out of his expertise. When he found there was nothing specific in my lab tests or on my MRI he didn't suggest anything of what it might be. I had gotten the diagnosis from my chiropracter. My new doctor did send me to Physical Therapy where the therapist also diagonsed me with adhesive capsulitis. I had never heard of this condition. In searching it on the web, the diagnosis fit. The Physical Therapist and websites also mentioned that it will often not show up in lab as inflammation or on MRI/XRays. Does that mean if doesn't exist? Not really.If you were in physical pain, but I couldn't see your physical pain and said to you: "It must be in your head so just get up, move around, and you'll get over it, or get some counseling." Wouldn't that make you just a little upset? Granted, trying to live with pain on a daily basis sometimes some of us might need a little counseling to help us deal with it, although I trust in God and that seems to help me.I know that some say that this condition is not progressive, but I beg to differ. With my experience and the people with fibro that I have come in contact with, they also seem to develop some new wierd symptom they never had and never even heard of before. Then if you do a search on the computer you see that, "Oh, yes, it is associated with this condition." Then you thank goodness, that some researchers are on this. Again, too bad all the doctors aren't more on it as well. I wish you well with your roommate. I can't do as much as I used to do, but I know that lying around doing nothing and feeling sorry for myself doesn't work either. I recently posted something about it being "my cross to bear" and that I would try and do it more graciously. It's a struggle most days, but there is still some things I can do and rewards in this world to be had. Perhaps your friend might need some counseling to help her deal with her condition if you haven't had success. Don't look at it like you have failed her or that somehow she has failed herself. We could all use a little help from time to time. May God Bless,M.


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## Kim Insko (Oct 31, 2001)

MThanks so much for your response. It's not that I feel I have failed her, but more that I'm starting to feel that me moving in is being looked at as someone to take care of her. I'm not a nurse, nor do I want to be one. Also, counselling is something suggested by her doctor, but she doesn't seem to want to do it. It is unfortunate because I think it is something that will really help her. I don't know if she feels sorry for herself, but when she is feeling really badly, she does seem quite a bit more sad and does just spend her time in jamas on the couch. I truly believe that she does have an illness, but also feel that sometimes the illness is used as a bit of a crutch in her case, but not necessarily on purpose. Thank makes no sense I know. I don't know, and am just learning about it.Thanks very much,Kimba


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## Susan Purry (Nov 6, 2001)

> quote:I don't know if she feels sorry for herself, but when she is feeling really badly, she does seem quite a bit more sad and does just spend her time in jamas on the couch.


Don't know if this will help you understand and get some perspective or not, but I spent about six months not being able to get dressed without using up all my energy for the day. Sitting on the couch was a sign of improvement as it meant I had improved sufficiently to sit upright, unsupported rather than lying down. It must be mind boggling to understand this, but it's true. Also, when someone is feeling really badly, they're bound to feel sad.


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## Kim Insko (Oct 31, 2001)

Thanks very much Susan, I am just trying to understand so that I don't get bitter feelings towards the situation as well as let go of some of the guilt I feel.Thanks for being so informative and patient with me!Kimba


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## moldie (Sep 25, 1999)

Your welcome Kimba. It may very well be that she is depressed (it certainly sounds so). Whether it is the situational depression, or a clinical depression, seeing a doctor who can determine this would probably be the way to go. Certainly, with cfs and fms our bodies seem to be sluggish and depression can be associated with this. Of course this doesn't get better with the aging process, so getting the help now is important.It wouldn't hurt to call th local clinic and ask if their are doctors that screen for depression to determine whether it is a situational or clinical depression. If it is found to be clinical, there may be some medication that could be beneficial for her. If it is found to be situational, counseling sessions for people dealing with chronic illness might be beneficial as well. All of us go through a grieving process when we find out we have a chronic illness that has taken part of our life away. That is pretty normal. At some point we have to accept it and do the best we can with what we have.Maybe it wouldn't even hurt to tell her about this site, or direct her to a support group if there is one in your area. Sometimes seeing how other people deal with the illness you have and knowing you're not alone can be helpful. I found that sometimes you come to the point where it is not healthy to focus on the illness all the time though, as that can be overwhelming. You have to know when to take a break from those same support groups as well, as hearing about all the problems can drag you down sometimes. At other times, they can be great for support when you're feeling down. Good luck to you and your friend Kimba!M.


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## Kim Insko (Oct 31, 2001)

Thanks M, She has just been weined off the depression drugs and I don't think has accepted the counselling thing yet. I have been thinking I will direct her to this site, because it sure has helped with me and my IBS.k


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