# H.Pylori and SIBO/IBS-not a good comparison



## karoe

Once again, I am posting a question that troubles me in the hopes that it will generate discussion. Pimentel's work was no doubt inspired by the H.Pylori story where a specific bacteria was isolated as the cause of ulcers. What an wonderful discovery. I am sure that many people would love to see the same thing happen for IBS or SIBO, but we are not there yet --- and I don't know if we will ever be. The bacteria responsible for ulcers was treated with a specific antibiotic, which killed it. To my knowledge, once it's dead, the patient is better. With the SIBO theory, we have unidentified, non specific bacteria being wiped out by a broad spectrum antibiotic. And for many people, the problem returns after treatment. This seems like such an inexact approach compared to the H. Pylori situation. We don't really "know" the enemy. Could that be why it's not a lasting cure?I am glad Rifaximin was invented, but I wonder if this is the case of the tail wagging the dog. Is the availability of this antibiotic with the unique property it has of staying in the gut responsible for this new treatment protocol of SIBO/IBS? Why can't they find out which bacteria are responsible for SIBO and use a targeted antibiotic?Debate welcome. I have not decided to take R yet, just investigating.


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## Kathleen M.

SIBO was around long before Pimental, he just tied it to IBS.The problem is in SIBO in the long established conditions that cause SIBO is that it isn't some specific pathogenic bacteria infecting and invading the body.They know which bacteria are in the small intestines in SIBO.  The same ones that normally live in the mouth or normally live in the colon.In SIBO the mechanism that keeps the small intestine mostly free of bacteria (there is some in most people, but not a lot) is disrupted. Clearing it out with antibiotics can work for the short run, but if you can't prevent the normal flora that is normally in the body from getting going in there it will just start up again.Now in some of Pimental's work he addresses that with Zelnorm to keep things moving so it can't easily start up again.The reason for the broad spectrum antibiotics is it isn't just one specific species causing it. K.


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## eric

Dr Pimentel's work tried to tie in bloating and IBS. One problem is the test they use, because its not a very specific test and can give false positives. some important info on Ulcers, yes HP was a major breathrough, but its not totally that simple.as for ulcers its more complex then just a bug, but yes the bug is a main culprit. "Experts believe that 90% of the people around the world who have ulcers are infected with H. pylori. But strangely enough, *most people infected with H. pylori don't develop an ulcer. *Doctors aren't completely sure why, but they think that part of the reason may depend on the individual person - for example, people who develop ulcers may already have a problem with the lining of their stomachs. It is also believed that some people may naturally secrete more stomach acid than others - and it doesn't matter what stresses they're exposed to or what foods they eat. Peptic ulcers may have something to do with the combination of H. pylori infection and the level of acid in the stomach.When H. pylori bacteria do cause ulcers, here's how doctors think these ulcers develop:Bacteria weaken the protective coating of the stomach and upper small intestine. Acid in the stomach then gets through to the sensitive tissues lining the digestive system underneath. Acid and bacteria directly irritate this lining resulting in sores, or ulcers. Although H. pylori are responsible for most cases of peptic ulcers, these ulcers can happen for other reasons, too. Sometimes people regularly take pain relievers (like aspirin or ibuprofen) that fight inflammation in the body. These medications, known as nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs), are used to treat certain long-term painful conditions like arthritis. If taken in high daily doses over a long period of time, they can cause ulcers in some of the people who use them.Smoking is also associated with peptic ulcers. Smoking increases a person's risk of getting an ulcer because the nicotine in cigarettes causes the stomach to produce more acid. Drinking a lot of alcohol each day for a period of time can also increase a person's risk of ulcers because over time alcohol can wear down the lining of the stomach and intestines.In certain circumstances stress can help cause ulcers. But this usually only happens in situations when illness involving severe emotional or physical stress is involved - such as when someone is so sick that he or she cannot eat for a long period of time. Ulcers occur because of uncontrolled increased acid production in the stomach and changes in a person's immune system (the body system that fights infection). With any illness where the body's ability to heal is challenged (such as when a person has been burned badly in a fire), there is a risk for developing ulcers."http://kidshealth.org/teen/diseases_condit...ive/ulcers.htmlIt is believed that, although all three of these factors -- lifestyle, acid and pepsin, and H. pylori -- play a role in ulcer development, H. pylori is considered to be the primary cause.Factors in the development of peptic ulcersFactors suspected of playing a role in the development of stomach or duodenal ulcers include:"stressAlthough emotional stress is no longer thought to be a cause of ulcers, people with ulcers often report that emotional stress increases ulcer pain. Physical stress, however, may increase the risk of developing ulcers, particularly in the stomach. For example, people with injuries such as severe burns and people undergoing major surgery often require rigorous treatment to prevent ulcers and ulcer complications.acid and pepsinIt is believed that the stomach's inability to defend itself against the powerful digestive fluids, hydrochloric acid and pepsin, contributes to ulcer formation. "http://www.umm.edu/digest/ulcers.htmHarvard"Stress and Psychological Factors. Although stress is no longer considered a cause of ulcers, studies still suggest that stress may predispose a person to ulcers or prevent existing ulcers from healing. Some experts estimate that social and psychological factors play a contributory role in 30 - 60% of peptic ulcer cases, whether they are caused by H. pylori or NSAIDs. Some experts even believe that the anecdotal relationship between stress and ulcers is so strong that treatment of psychological factors is warranted."http://www.umm.edu/patiented/articles/who_...rs_000019_5.htmStress can effect stomach acid as well. So even here is not totally a simple issue.


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## karoe

Thanks, Kathleen, and that's my point....a broad spectrum antibiotic is used to knock out whatever bacteria are in the small intestine...but why does it come back??? It seems that a lot of people on this board who have tried the antibiotics do not get rid of all their symptoms (could be other factors operating in IBS) or they feel fine for a while and two months later, it's back? Any idea what the success rate is for treating Hpylori with antibiotics?? It seemed very successful, but I don't know exactly. How new is the drug Rifaximin? Pretty new, it seems.....it is a remake of neomycin, which was invented in 1949, right? Let's not ignore the market potential of a drug that is supposed to cure IBS....if 20% of the population has IBS to a certain degree, that is just a huge market for the drug, and I am suspicious of the drug companies and the docs that work with them on clinical trials. Your thoughts welcome. I hope you see where I am going with this--- I don't want to jump on the bandagon and be another guinea pig.


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## Kathleen M.

Rifaximin wasn't developed to treat SIBO or IBS as far as I know. It was developed to treat GI infections.With a lot of the bacteria killed off by antibiotics you can be re-exposed and get re-infected. I'm not sure what the reinfection rate is for H. pylori, but like SIBO it will depend on how often you come across it in the environment.If you completely and totally wiped out everything in the GI tract you would pretty quickly re-establish a colonic flora. I mean it takes next to no time for babies to develop a GI flora (it takes about a year before it is established well enough to protect from botulism bacteria but you start off without anything in there).The bacteria that are in the colon are all around us, and in every other human, so you can't help but get re-exposed to a wide number of different species in very short order.The reason the small intestine gets re-infested (and remember NONE of these bacteria are ones your body thinks is a pathogen your body tolerates them all and isn't trying to get rid of them) is that whatever allowed things to pile up in there the first time is still there. Normally these normal bacteria pass thorugh the small intestine and do not establish themselves. If there is a problem clearing them out, then they can get going again very easily. Think of keeping leaves out of your house in the fall. If you kept the doors and windows open with no screens the leaves would blow in and accumulate. You could sweep them all out every day so there would never be very many but if you don't close the doors and windows or put screens in more leaves will quickly cover the floor again. If you sweep every day there won't ever be very many but if stop sweeping then they will pile up. The small intestine is like the house with no doors and windows, you can't prevent stuff from coming in. Sometimes something happens and you don't "sweep" as often as you should and the stuff starts to accumulate. Doesn't matter if you clean it all out with a leaf blower (antibiotic) once in a while. If you don't keep sweeping it out and it keeps coming in every day then it will accumulate in there.Now the movement of stuff through the colon is such that bacteria are supposed to accumulate so it is normal to have very high numbers of bacteria in there. I hope that made some sense.K.ETA: _(18% re-infection rate per year in the first 12 months)_ from http://content.karger.com/produktedb/produkte.asp?doi=107046 in people that you actually got rid of the H. pylori in Bangledesh where the infection rate is particularly high in the general population. It can come back because you get re-exposed. With SIBO you will be re-exposed every day of your life with something that can live in the colon. With H. pylori you have to run across one specific species of bacteria, not one or more of thousands and thousands of different species.


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## Kamikazee

I had great success for 6 months or greater I mean my symptoms where reduced by 100% by taking augmentin which I took after I had my toncils removed. All my cramps where gone and I had next to no diarrhea except for when I really ate something I shouldn't have, but even then it was painless. My symptoms where so gone I forgot I even had the problem at one time, then the one day came where I ate at my friends house which isn't very sanitary at all and I thought to myself I hope that me eating her doesn't bring my symptoms back.The one comment my friend made that I remember him saying was "man this grease is old I probably shouldn't use it, but tonight I think it will work." Because he was frying chicken, sure enough about 5 hours later that night I had a huge diarrhea attack cramps and all, and I had my symptoms again ever since. So in conclusion maybe by chance this is just a guess you stomach is really vulunerable at least for awhile afterwards to getting food poisioning or that "heralding event" that Dr. Pimentel calls it. Maybe it just needs time to heal and get back to its normal cycle and our american diets today doesn't allow that to happen.Because my dad had the same problems I had when he was my age all the way until he was 26 my mom told me when he got really sick with something can't remember what. They put him on really strong antibiotics for like 2-3 weeks and he never had problems since. And I mean he had problems, the army wouldn't draft him to go to vietnam because of his digesting problems. And my dad is clueless to it he thought it just went away or that it was something he did. I try and tell him my theory with the sibo, but it doesn't register. Anyways I hope this helps to show that it is possible to be treated. Granted I'm not a 100% he had sibo but its the only thing that makes sense, his success, my short success, and also my brother has been diagnosed with fibro, which is believed to be caused by sibo.


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## eric

Fibro, though isn't caused by sibo. Many things actually cause sibo, so its in part the other way around."Bacterial Overgrowth Syndrome page 251 The bacterial overgrowth syndrome can result from any disease that interferes with the normal balance (ecosystem) of the small intestinal flora and brings about loss of gastric acidity; alteration in small bowel motility or lesions predisposing to luminal stasis; loss of the ileocecal valve; or overwhelming contamination of the intestinal lumen (Table 16). The bacterial overgrowth syndrome gives rise to clinical abnormalities arising from the pathophysiological effects on the luminal contents and the mucosa. Bacteria can consume proteins and carbohydrates. In bacterial overgrowth there may be defective transport of sugars, possibly related to the toxic effect of deconjugated bile acids."http://gastroresource.com/GITextbook/En/Chapter7/7-17.htmalsoSome expert SIBO information for the forumhttp://www.ibsgroup.org/forums/index.php?s...7&hl=expertFood poisoning has been shown to lead to IBS however.read this threadhttp://www.ibsgroup.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=92909


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## Chris0007

Hi,I'm relatively new here, but I have been having IBS - C for the last 9 months. Up until then, I was perfect in the GI department. As a matter of fact, it was nothing for me to eat a whole pizza and then go to the gym and work out. I've always worked out with weights and watched my weight, so eating like that never really caused me to gain weight. I could eat a full box of donuts and not even blink...I was burning the calories off just as fast as I consumed them. And for 34 years, I NEVER missed a beat in the GI department and I could eat ANY food, in ANY quantity without ANY issue. I started experiencing, out of the blue, mild constipation for about 3-4 months. I would have a bowel movememt every day, but they were always very hard. Some days it was so bad however, that I had to manually aid in my defecation. It should be noted that I never had a problem _needing_ to go, just the size and texture of the stool was the issue. Then one day, all of the sudden my stomach bloated to a point that the pain felt like nothing I had ever encountered. It actually stopped me from working out as any twisting or turning hurt very badly. Every since then, it's been downhill in the GI department. About 1-2 months after this, my health started going out the door. This happened as odd things at first, every joint in my body would crack or pop with movement, tingling in over my body, excessive muscle tightness (especially in back) back pain, bad sinus headaches, bruising easily, very dry hair and skin, and now it feels like my bones hurt when moderate pressure is placed on them. I have been trying for 9 months to soften my stools and have seen way too many doctors to get this done...and it just won't happen and my stomach is constantly messed up. I've had a full neurological work up done and though I have a few buldging discs, all the docs tell me it's nothing to write home about. I've had a full food allergy work up as well, all negative. All GI tests were negative, however my GI doc failed to do the appropriate biopsy for SIBO at the time of my endo/colonoscopy...but just as well, as this method has its limitations as well. It goes without saying that the docs also played the "mental" card on me, but the fact of the matter is, before this happened, I was in one of the lowest stress periods of my life. Even the initial constipation didn't slow me down. It wasn't until the stomach/GI pain was so bad and no doctor would even remotely consider anything else other then "an abdominal strain" because of my appearance and work out lifestyle that I started to get stressed out. So here is how my diagnosis as well as my progression went for me: 1. Mild but daily constipation. I started to notice meat was giving me harder stools. 2. The bloating "event." Shortly there after, I started having issues with wheat and high sugar products. Then I notices nuts were aggrevating too. 3. diagnosis of IBS - C 4. diagnosis of Fibromyalgia. I have a VERY high tolerance for pain, and I'm trying to make the point that I never had Fibro until recently and it felt like it progressive came on after the bloating issue. I have convinced my GI doc to let me try a course of anitbiotics for this to see if I improve (SIBO) as nothing else has even touched my conditions. I start in a few days. As a side note, being an open minded guy who just wanted to get his life back, I tried the psychological treatment and medications they prescribed...NOTHING. Of course many of them think it just a matter of finding that "right medication," which means they want to run me through the mill of 10-20 meds before they will decide "I just can't be helped." I have tried a prolonged treatment of four various psychological meds to date with not benefit and plenty of downside. My point is, if I do indeed have SIBO, I believe it to be the result of constipation so bad that I had to manually help to remove it. That, or I "caught" something that caused the bloating incident. I also believe that my Fibro is a direct result of the SIBO. I have read the remark above regarding Fibro and SIBO, but I have also read medical literature that states there is a connection between Fibro, IBS, and now SIBO...so it really needs more research to get more definite conclusions. In my cause, I KNOW the IBS came before the FIBRO. One of the current theories I read regarding this is that if you hvae SIBO and a disposition to it, baterial translocation can occur as a result of an increased permeability of the GI tract, result in bateria in parts of the body that shouldn't have it. This in turn causes the FIBRO like conditions. The last test I'm going to take is a Sitz marker test to ensure there is no issue with my colonic transit. If that comes back clean and I do have SIBO, then I believe that SIBO can be the result of just the "perfect" storm, and that for some people, not all because I do believe others have deeper underlying issues, it can be caused by a few days of bad back up or just eating/drinking the wrong thing at the wrong time. I fo. Nrgot to mention that I have gastritis too, but after two different tests, it was not due to infection. My GI doc thinks low stomach acid is a myth because it is a natural thing in life and I'm crazy for bringing it up. I read this too can cause SIBO. Needless to say, I'm currently seeking a second GI doctor's opinion. I'm interested it what others think. Thanks for the information thus far. Chris L


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## eric

FYIFibromyalgia: A Disorder of the Brain?Neuroscientist. 2008 Feb 12;Authors: Schweinhardt P, Sauro KM, Bushnell MCThis article presents evidence that fibromyalgia patients have alterations in CNS anatomy, physiology, and chemistry that potentially contribute to the symptoms experienced by these patients. There is substantial psychophysical evidence that fibromyalgia patients perceive pain and other noxious stimuli differently than healthy individuals and that normal pain modulatory systems, such as diffuse noxious inhibitory control mechanisms, are compromised in fibromyalgia. Furthermore, functional brain imaging studies revealing enhanced pain-related activations corroborate the patients' reports of increased pain. Neurotransmitter studies show that fibromyalgia patients have abnormalities in dopaminergic, opioidergic, and serotoninergic systems. Finally, studies of brain anatomy show structural differences between the brains of fibromyalgia patients and healthy individuals. The cerebral alterations offer a compelling explanation for the multiple symptoms of fibromyalgia, including widespread pain and affective disturbances. The frequent comorbidity of fibromyalgia with stress-related disorders, such as chronic fatigue, posttraumatic stress disorder, irritable bowel syndrome, and depression, as well as the similarity of many CNS abnormalities, suggests at least a partial common substrate for these disorders. Despite the numerous cerebral alterations, fibromyalgia might not be a primary disorder of the brain but may be a consequence of early life stress or prolonged or severe stress, affecting brain modulatory circuitry of pain and emotions in genetically susceptible individuals. NEUROSCIENTIST XX(X):xx-xx, XXXX. DOI: 10.1177/1073858407312521.PMID: 18270311


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## Chris0007

Eric, Thanks for the article. I've read that article before. Unfortunately, you can find evidence for almost anything depending on who is publishing the article. There are many who consider IBS a neurological disorder as well, giving data that shows different brain activity in IBS patients compared to healthy patients. There are also studies that show people with IBS and/or Fibro have/had no significantly different levels of stress, anxiety, or depression before the episodes of these conditions manifested themselves. Even more, there are studies that show a very high percentage of both IBS patients and Fibro patients were on some type of psychological medication before these brain activities were measured, leading to a possible conclusion that the medications themselves could be responsible for the change in brain activity. I'd guess that finding a Fibro patient that hasn't been on pain/psychological medication for a considerable length of time would be as easy as winning the lottery.







Speaking from an evolutionary standpoint, the gut as a whole is far more developed as an organ than the brain. The gut also has a considerably larger amount of nerve networks then the brain. There is scientific proof that the brain can be shut down and the the gut will continue to function normally, unlike most other organs of the body. The point here is the gut is a very powerful, "thinking" system, unlike the liver, heart, lungs, or skin. I'm not trying to debate with you on whether or not IBS causes Fibro, there simply isn't enough conclusive evidence one way or the other. I can only speak from my own experience, one that is identical to my mother's experience. We both were given the diagnosis of IBS which in time was followed by a diagnosis of Fibro. Both myself and my mother clearly felt that there was a time we had neither condition, then we had IBS without any other types of pain not typically related to IBS, and then we developed Fibro. I've been to two Fibro specialists, one conclusively said I didn't have Fibro, the other said I absolutely did have the condition. One said that Fibro is VERY often found in people who were abused or went through a very stressful event during childhood, while the other was certain it was an autoimmune disorder. I don't fit into either of these categories. Like I said, there just isn't enough conclusive evidence to make definitive statements at this time. That being said, please keep the articles coming... Thanks!


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## eric

FYIThese are all brand new state of the art on IBS.IFFGD's response:"Fibromyalgia and irritable bowel syndrome: How real must they be?(January 26, 2008) Nearly two weeks ago the New York Times published a front page story about a new drug approval for the treatment of fibromyalgia that questioned the validity of functional disorders and implied that both fibromyalgia and irritable bowel syndrome (IBS) are not "real." In response, IFFGD joined a group of internationally recognized clinicians and scientists in sending a Letter to the Editor at the New York Times. The letter is intended to provide perspective and balance to the article, which was entitled "Drug Approved. Is Disease Real?" We believe it to be a disservice to leave the millions of sufferers with fibromyalgia and IBS with the thought that their medical disorder is not legitimate. The newspaper has not published our response. We present it to you here."http://www.aboutibs.org/site/news-events/n...commentary#Real *2007 IFFGD Symposium Summary Report -very much worth reading*http://www.ibsgroup.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=92806altered serotonin dysregulationhttp://www.ibsgroup.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=80198Its really worth reading the bloating article as well here.you have to register for free for this-This is in medscape and is an excellent article on"Review Article: Abdominal Bloating and Distension in Functional Gastrointestinal Disorders -- Epidemiology and Exploration of Possible MechanismsPosted 01/22/2008A. Agrawal; P. J. WhorwellAuthor InformationSummary and IntroductionSummaryBackground: A sensation of abdominal bloating, sometimes accompanied by an increase in girth (distension), is one of the most common and most intrusive features of functional bowel disorders.Aim: To conduct a systematic, evidence-based review of the epidemiology and pathophysiology of abdominal bloating and its relationship to distension.Methods: The terms bloating, distension, functional bowel, irritable bowel syndrome, constipation and diarrhoea were searched on MEDLINE up to 2006. References from selected articles and relevant abstracts were also included.Results: Approximately 50% of irritable bowel syndrome patients with bloating also experience an increase in abdominal girth and this is more pronounced with constipation than diarrhoea. Bloating appears to be more frequently associated with visceral hypersensitivity, whereas distension is more often related to hyposensitivity and delayed transit. Although there is little evidence for excessive gas as a cause of bloating, gas infusion studies suggest that handling of gas may be impaired in irritable bowel syndrome and there may also be abnormal relaxation of the anterior abdominal musculature in these patients.Conclusions: There is unlikely to be a single cause for bloating and distension, which probably have different, but overlapping, pathophysiological mechanisms. Relieving constipation might help distension, but the treatment of bloating may need more complex approaches involving sensory modulation.IntroductionAbdominal bloating and distension occur extremely commonly in the functional gastrointestinal disorders with many patients ranking them as particularly intrusive symptoms. Characteristically, the problem is exacerbated by meals, fluctuates in intensity, is worse at the end of the day and settles overnight. When these symptoms follow this pattern, they are almost pathognomonic of a functional gastrointestinal disorder and it is somewhat surprising that their diagnostic utility has not been harnessed more often. This is in part because these features do not appear to be so common in men, but to some extent, this is because men describe the problem differently often referring to it as a 'hardness' or 'tightness' of the abdomen. Probably the best way to view these features is that when they are present, they make the possibility of a functional bowel disorder almost certain but when absent, they don't exclude the diagnosis.Until recently, research into bloating and distension has been sparse and largely empirical as well as being based on the assumption that the two descriptors were describing the same phenomenon. Thus, interpreting the data from older studies is difficult and even today, patients and their physicians often use the terms synonymously. However, with the development of more objective ways of assessing it such as the gas challenge technique[1,2] or abdominal inductance plethysmography (AIP),[3,4] there is increasing evidence that bloating and distension may have different pathophysiological mechanisms."http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/568555_1Excellent ibs videos from the expertshttp://www.aboutibs.org/site/learning-center/video-corner/There is a lot of research being done right now on the interactions of bacteria gut flora and IBS and it might be one part of the picture, but there are also structural abnormalities and other VERY important cell issues and brain gut communication.


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## wb

Man can I relate to your story Chris. toss in excessive gas, and we have similar stories/symptoms. it's turned my life upside down. i tried Zelnorm for a short time, and at first, my gut felt like it did prior to IBS symptoms. felt like i was in heaven i'll tell you. couldn't believe the difference and the change in mental attitude due to the gut feeling normal. then it stopped working i guess and too, it got pulled from the shelves. so much for Zelnorm and it's promises. every day, that longing in the back of the mind to have our guts feel like it used to prior to IBS... Glad I read your post and wish you good luck too on getting some relief


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## Chris0007

Thanks Wb,I'll let you know how the treatment with the antiobitics go for the IBS/SIBO. I have to hold off for a few days because of the Sitz Mark test, but I start the treatment in 3 days. Good luck with your situation as well!


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## karoe

Chris:It is shocking that this came about all of a sudden. I would think you would have had some advance warning signals.My opinion (and I am not a doctor, but I read a lot!) (and I've been through a lot of pain) is that when I see things like "whole box of donuts" and a "whole pizza" I get real suspicious about your diet and the possiblilty of malnutrition, especially given the other non-gastrointestinal symptoms you developed afterwards. Problems relating to malnutrition can arise at any point in your life. You need to really look into switching to a very healthy diet and see if you can help yourself. Drugs are not the answer.


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## Chris0007

Thanks for the input Karoe.







Diet and proper nutrition have always been a major part of my life. Being into body building at a young age, I ate extremely heathy most times, however I have always had a large appetite. When I did "treat" myself once a week, I did eat alot. I can honestly say that since this event has started I have even taken proper nutrition up a notch in my life, and the unfortunate fact of the matter is that it hasn't helped at all. All the blood tests keep coming back normal.


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## eric

Its pretty rare to have sibo cause constipation, its mainly d as the body try's to dispell the normal bacteria out of the small intestines.Fibro and IBS are both CNS and ANS and the case of IBS ENS disorders. In all of them there is eveidence of brain abnormalities. IN IBS post infectious IBS is a model for Classic IBS and there they do see structural cell issues in the gut that has to do with gut functioning. However in IBS both the brain and the gut are operational to cause the symptoms.Let me know how the sitz marker comes out because that could be very important.


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## Cappy68

Chris,I had a similar story as you except mine switched to alternating C/D.I would be interested in how you progress and what you find out.Thanks for posting!-Paul


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## FONDUE

I absolutely agree with you regarding the identification of the bacteria that causes Small interstinal bacterial overgrowth, SIBO. The super nice dr game me rifaximin but told me to not take it until I see the infectious disease specialist....My story is such an unbelievable one that I'm not going to get into it all the details here. Briefly, I was first diagnosed with SIBO, I was so ill for close to ONE YEAR it was unreal, stiff neck , low grade fever, nausea chill ear pain, lymph nodes swollen rash burning in the abdomen throw in some trips a few years before to several countries.ALl the tests were negative, except SIBO then later another testm was done two differnt times was H pylori first one negarive eleven mths later second H pylori test was positive! So the first one was a false negative ! So are tests reliable who knows???. The young dr I saw was smart enough to run a test for H pylori because she overlooked the intial test that was done. My sense is that research needs to be done on how to irradicate SIBO quickly. Secondly it is hard to kill something you haven't completely indentified.


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## FONDUE

One last thought is that I've read cases where people cure H pylori within a few days, by simply bombarding the bacteria,


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## siboedout

Hey Fondue! I noticed your post and almost fell off my chair!

I seem to be having many of the symptoms you described. Constipation came on all of a sudden a couple of years ago, then throat and ear pain, swollen lymph nodes (docs misdiagnosed me w/TMJ), low grade fever comes and goes mostly in the evenings when I'm really backed up...stiff neck was on and off and is now constant! My H. Pylori test was negative....on Rifaxamin for 8 weeks starting this past Spring, then came back within 3 weeks! I did some traveling out of the country but not tons...but I do eat a lot of sushi and I like my meat Med rare.....what to do?! On Rifaxamin again now for 6 weeks. Doc said that I'll just have to always be on it!!! I've always been a healthy eater and worked out 3x a week! This is killing me!!!! What did you do? Are you cured?


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## siboedout

FONDUE said:


> I absolutely agree with you regarding the identification of the bacteria that causes Small interstinal bacterial overgrowth, SIBO. The super nice dr game me rifaximin but told me to not take it until I see the infectious disease specialist....My story is such an unbelievable one that I'm not going to get into it all the details here. Briefly, I was first diagnosed with SIBO, I was so ill for close to ONE YEAR it was unreal, stiff neck , low grade fever, nausea chill ear pain, lymph nodes swollen rash burning in the abdomen throw in some trips a few years before to several countries.ALl the tests were negative, except SIBO then later another testm was done two differnt times was H pylori first one negarive eleven mths later second H pylori test was positive! So the first one was a false negative ! So are tests reliable who knows???. The young dr I saw was smart enough to run a test for H pylori because she overlooked the intial test that was done. My sense is that research needs to be done on how to irradicate SIBO quickly. Secondly it is hard to kill something you haven't completely indentified.


Hey Fondue! I noticed your post and almost fell off my chair!

I seem to be having many of the symptoms you described. Constipation came on all of a sudden a couple of years ago, then throat and ear pain, swollen lymph nodes (docs misdiagnosed me w/TMJ), low grade fever comes and goes mostly in the evenings when I'm really backed up...stiff neck was on and off and is now constant! My H. Pylori test was negative....on Rifaxamin for 8 weeks starting this past Spring, then came back within 3 weeks! I did some traveling out of the country but not tons...but I do eat a lot of sushi and I like my meat Med rare.....what to do?! On Rifaxamin again now for 6 weeks. Doc said that I'll just have to always be on it!!! I've always been a healthy eater and worked out 3x a week! This is killing me!!!! What did you do? Are you cured?


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