# for IanRamsay: Bifido probiotic question



## gravitas (Jul 30, 2009)

Ian,I've lurked and read many of your posts/threads about probiotics. It's been quite helpful. I realize you have a standard message you copy & paste for probiotic questions, and that's been helpful, but I've read all that and I have some specific questions about Bifido family probiotics which I've been trying.Disclaimer: I realize it's different for each person's body. I'm aware that you can't tell me what will work for me, and I need to experiment... which is exactly what I've been doing, hence the questions.Symptoms: SIBO (tested positive twice on breath test), bloating, sensitivity to high fiber (eg green) vegetables, spicy foods, caffeine, lactose. Occasional loose stools, and constipation often, even without eating any of the above foods (unless I observe a Pimental-ish diet which I'm experimenting with as well, eliminating foods one by one).So, I started taking Nature's Way Probifia, which contains: Bifidobacterium breve Bifidobacterium bifidum Bifidobacterium longum Bifidobacterium infantisThis helped my BMs become more solid and generally only once per day. No longer did I have to go back for a second-round BM like an hour after the first, etc. I was also noticeably less food-sensitive (although I haven't tried leafy green veggies on it... those were visibly coming out in my BMs prior to this, so I thought best not to experiment too much). I did have spicy food once or twice, with very little issues! However I didn't feel the SIBO/IBS were gone really.However, during weeks of taking this supplement, I never had the Herx reactionNext, I read some things on here about Bifidobacterium infantis 35624, and decided to stop the Probifia blend and switch to Align for the 35624, as an experiment. I took my first Align pill at night, and the next morning I woke up with a very urgent bowel feeling. Went to the loo, and as I was sitting there anticipating my bowels emptying, I began to feel sweaty. Some stuff came out which was liquid-ish, and the sweats intensified a LOT... then a little more stuff came out (still liquid), more sweats... my palms began to tingle... I felt like I was going to either throw up, or pass out from light-headedness.I assume this was the Herx reaction? It was scary! Afterward I felt physically drained, still sweaty and dizzy.  So I stopped taking it for now, after only one pill. Elsewhere I've read your suggestion to start with 1/4, then 1/2, etc. and I may try that.I've also read where you say the Herx often indicates that you've found the "right" strain to kill your toxins.Questions:1. If the Probifia is helping my BMs, but not giving a Herx reaction, is it really clearing out toxins in the way 35624 could do? Any ideas why Probifia blend would help a lot, but no Herx?2. Can/should I take Probifia (see above) along with Align (35624) ? Or is it better to just experiment with 35624 for a while, see what it does after the Herx is over, then decide whether it works better than the Probifia blend? (Any reason to use both together in the future, or not to?)3. If I want to take 1/2 of a capsule (eg Align or Probifia), is it okay to just take it apart, separate the powder, then put it back in the capsule? I thought these capsules had some sort of special coating so that the product can safely make it through to a certain part of the bowel.Disclaimer: I realize you can't give medical advice, I should ask my doctor, etc. Just looking for your personal opinions and thoughts.Thanks!Jordan


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## IanRamsay (Nov 23, 2008)

Hi JordanAs you have put in your post, this is just my personal advice to you.You can mix and match any probiotic in just about any dosage in any form. if you want to brak a cap in half and take teh powder, that will work the same as a cap on its own will be fine. but if you are taking it in powder form, it is best to take it on an empty stomach with some water so it leaves teh stomach fairly quickly as it wont have any coating on it to allow it to stay in teh stomach intact for very long. i only ever take powdered probiotics. if you have some left over from a cap, put it in a grip seal bag or wrap it in come cling film untill teh next day.herx does indicate that bacteria or other nasties are indeed shuffling off teh mortal coil and releasing their toxic waste in to teh body, but sometimes the nasty bacteria dont die completely as they are transient and will pass out of you normally. so again this could be dose dependant or timing or strain related. on several occasions in teh past i was taking absolutely insane doses of probiotics sometimes separated by only 2 hours for 12 hours in a row for 7 days etc etc (under medical guidance from a friend or two) and i can tell you, teh herx i experianced a couple of times made me seriously contemplate sedation because it was worse than the illness 10 fold. but on teh other hand sometimes i had no herx at all with lower doses or different strains in larger doses. Herx is a funny thing and teh guidelines of what it might feel like are just that, guidelines as it can be very different for different people and i have found to a certain extent teh strain of probiotic that you take MAY affect how the herx feels. teh por formula tha tyou where taking was clearly doing something as it was helping with teh BMs. im honestly not sure what no herx could mean for you personally. it may have something to do with teh amount of bacteria per dose, it could be the time of day that teh dose is taken, it could be something to do with your bio rhythm in conjunction with teh time of day that the dose is taken combined with teh size of teh dose, teh list goes on. teh honest answer is i dont know for sure!SIBO is is liek a ghost in teh fog. when i was suffering with it during my probiotic experimentation, sometimes i would get a few weeks relief and tehn it would just re appear untill i eventually found teh right components to sort out my gut. when i was well i was never sure that it had gone because the IBS was still there and untill it had stayed away from then onwards (Touch wood!) you may want to try adding some grapefruit seed extract to see if that helps you along any. the very sad truth is that because i have cured my SIBO and IBS without antibiotics or antifungals of any kind, which 90% of teh medical community have said is not possible , i know it can be done, im living proof. it just seems that there is a GULF of difference between what fixed me and what will fix teh next guy, and its that gulf that i am trying to fill but it is going to take years. there are so many dead ends, and failures. but even now i dont like teh word cured because i know that i still have teh odd bad day. i guess everyone does but it still puts the fear of god in to me, because even though i am now 99% better, and i know how i did it, it took me a long long time. and it makes me a bit unhappy because i cant help everybody else here in teh same way because there are so many variables. but that is why i diddnt leave this site when i got better. because even if i only help a couple of people in a very small way, its still help.I hope the above ramble helps you out.CheersIan


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## powertool4 (Nov 1, 2009)

IanRamsay said:


> Hi JordanAs you have put in your post, this is just my personal advice to you.You can mix and match any probiotic in just about any dosage in any form. if you want to brak a cap in half and take teh powder, that will work the same as a cap on its own will be fine. but if you are taking it in powder form, it is best to take it on an empty stomach with some water so it leaves teh stomach fairly quickly as it wont have any coating on it to allow it to stay in teh stomach intact for very long. i only ever take powdered probiotics. if you have some left over from a cap, put it in a grip seal bag or wrap it in come cling film untill teh next day.herx does indicate that bacteria or other nasties are indeed shuffling off teh mortal coil and releasing their toxic waste in to teh body, but sometimes the nasty bacteria dont die completely as they are transient and will pass out of you normally. so again this could be dose dependant or timing or strain related. on several occasions in teh past i was taking absolutely insane doses of probiotics sometimes separated by only 2 hours for 12 hours in a row for 7 days etc etc (under medical guidance from a friend or two) and i can tell you, teh herx i experianced a couple of times made me seriously contemplate sedation because it was worse than the illness 10 fold. but on teh other hand sometimes i had no herx at all with lower doses or different strains in larger doses. Herx is a funny thing and teh guidelines of what it might feel like are just that, guidelines as it can be very different for different people and i have found to a certain extent teh strain of probiotic that you take MAY affect how the herx feels. teh por formula tha tyou where taking was clearly doing something as it was helping with teh BMs. im honestly not sure what no herx could mean for you personally. it may have something to do with teh amount of bacteria per dose, it could be the time of day that teh dose is taken, it could be something to do with your bio rhythm in conjunction with teh time of day that the dose is taken combined with teh size of teh dose, teh list goes on. teh honest answer is i dont know for sure!SIBO is is liek a ghost in teh fog. when i was suffering with it during my probiotic experimentation, sometimes i would get a few weeks relief and tehn it would just re appear untill i eventually found teh right components to sort out my gut. when i was well i was never sure that it had gone because the IBS was still there and untill it had stayed away from then onwards (Touch wood!) you may want to try adding some grapefruit seed extract to see if that helps you along any. the very sad truth is that because i have cured my SIBO and IBS without antibiotics or antifungals of any kind, which 90% of teh medical community have said is not possible , i know it can be done, im living proof. it just seems that there is a GULF of difference between what fixed me and what will fix teh next guy, and its that gulf that i am trying to fill but it is going to take years. there are so many dead ends, and failures. but even now i dont like teh word cured because i know that i still have teh odd bad day. i guess everyone does but it still puts the fear of god in to me, because even though i am now 99% better, and i know how i did it, it took me a long long time. and it makes me a bit unhappy because i cant help everybody else here in teh same way because there are so many variables. but that is why i diddnt leave this site when i got better. because even if i only help a couple of people in a very small way, its still help.I hope the above ramble helps you out.CheersIan


Ian, how did you cure yourself and what were your symptoms? I am interested in hearing your story. I have had problems that came and went and for the past 6 months it has been quite constant, bloating and constipation at time,lots of gas and pain that were trapped. I have tried customprobiotics, natrens healthy trinity, regular yogurt, theralac, and pretty much everything you can think of. Ive done a stool test and it actually showed high levels of lacto and lower levels of bifido and high levels of klebsiella. Too bad they dont tell you much more than that. I do alos notice taking lactobacillus makes it worse and gives me constipation and heartburn. So i am trying to take only bifido and just bought probifia. If it helps, i will try a stronger form of just bifido.Any suggestions greatly appreciated.


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