# For men Could anobolic steroids help IBS-D



## smil (Feb 23, 2008)

This is anecdotal evidence, in my younger days I used a small cycle of injectable testosterone while in college. I was able to put a good deal of muscle on in a short period of time and maintain it. In the beginning I had a negligible decrease in stool consistency due to an increased protein uptake but, after a couple of weeks and ten pounds of muscle it disappeared. I discerned that my Basal metabolic rate increased due to my added muscle and my ability to absorb nutrients resulting from steroids where the basic causes. At the end of my cycle I was eating normally and popping out strangled turds. Which for me was heaven. Also, I had no attacks and could actually dine out and socialize normally. Truth be known there is equal amount of confusion and ignorance with IBS and Anabolic steroids. Small steroid cycles done properly have zero to no side effects. I am sure a lot of people will come done hard on this post but for men, the one guaranteed cure, Lotronex is near impossible to get and cost prohibitive. I know I have been on Lotronex and had to get off it due to cost. Recently, when I went back to the same doctor to get it again when I could afford he said sorry, ain't going to do it. That’s when I felt rage!! Also, all those side effects they say you get due to steroids are BS and only happen to prolonged user high level users. Also, men begin producing less test in there twenties cumulating with a small amount being produced in there 40's and 50's. For you ladies I am sure quite a few you take estrogen for menopause or birth control or even fibromalagia. The war on steroids is the war on preventive medicine. The don’t prescribe poison to Aids patients Smil


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

With women the effects of birth control pills and hormone replacement therapy are really mixed.Some woman do much worse, some women do better, some women see no effect at all. Often it has to do with which way their natural hormones effect their IBS. Some women get really bad IBS around the time of their period so modulating that hormone fluctuation can sometimes be beneficial. But it doesn't always do that.My main concern would be if the only way to get it something is black market you may not be assured that you are getting what you paid for. Even when it is what you paid for often the drugs are expired or improperly stored which is why the pharmacy that they obtained it from was getting rid of it.I don't know if we know much about how male hormones effect the GI tract (as men tend to not have the cycling women do) or how likely it is to be helpful. Like every other thing someone thinks helps their IBS it only works for some people. Most things may make someone else worse, or they may be one who is sensitive to side effects that other people are not. Side effect free for one person doesn't mean side effect free for everyone in every case. Even if they all take the same dose.K.


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## smil (Feb 23, 2008)

There are many doctors who precribe testosterone and growth hormone to older men. Even with the cogressional hearing about steroids use there is still a large and burgeoning hormone replacement therapy indusrty. I am in my thirties and would not cosider going on testosterone permantly as I do wish to have children but small intermitent cycles monitored by a doctor would be something i would consider. In small doses there literaly no side effects. Also, the main reason many more men are not taking hormone replacement therapy is the cost of going to a doctor who will prescribe it. I do not beleive insurance covers it. Why would they it would be preventive medicine for a whole host of diseases.....smil


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## calibraa (Feb 23, 2008)

Hi! Exactly in this moment I,m experimenting with a testosterone blend from 4 esters (you probably know which steroid I mean). Oral AAS cause me nothing else than damage. Injectables however are a different story. First of all I'm thinking all the time what to eat that is going to provide more protein instead of what will trigger my IBS. And this is a huge advantage. I,m eating a lot, I'm gaining pure muscles, i,m not depressed, I look great and feel great. Lots of people are against AAS and ask me "Why do you want to die young".... Well, everyone on this site knows the answer. But now.. . I haven't had an "attack" since I started injecting myself. I'm taking calcium with meals and Amitriptyline. I'm not suggesting that everyone should start using steroids, but if you want to experiment - why not? At least you would be in better thoughts... Questions on private..


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## calibraa (Feb 23, 2008)

Another thing, the alcohol in the vials is making my IBS HORROR on the day after the injection... Sad but that's the way it is... It goes straight into the blood.


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## Nikki (Jul 11, 2000)

I'm sure you are aware the steriods for body building are completely illegal?


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## Nikki (Jul 11, 2000)

Your metabolic rate will temporarily increase if you do any amount of exercise- so i would suggest that if you want to increase your metablolic rate then you stay well away from the damaging effects of steroids and move towards getting regular exercise.IBS does not result in you getting less nutrients- all your nutrients are absorbed by the small intestine already.Be extremely careful.


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## smil (Feb 23, 2008)

Nikki, what you are missing is, that you are able to put muscle mass on far easier and quicker. You are building a machine that needs to consume energy i.e food. As your body grows with more muscle mass there are far fewer nurtrients and calories for your body to expel. Also, the main action of the steroids use is to increase protein synthesis, allowing you to absorb more protein and nutrients. In addition, there are positive mood chages primarily caused by a change in the esthrtic look of ones body. I would agree steroids are illegal to use without scripts. How ever there are a lot more doctors willing to prescribe steroids and human growth hormone the there are for say Lotronex. With a doctors supervision anobolic steroids are quite safe and provide numerous beneficial benefits. On average, men begin losing there testerone levels beinning at age 18 and by there late forties or fifties it is reduced to very low levels. I am only advocating the use steroids or human growth hormone under the supervision of a doctor. Mark my words in the next ten to fifteen years you will see large numner of wellness clinics popping up allo ever the place. I take welchol for my ibs which is for high cholesterol. Doctor often precribe that medication off there prescibed/intended use. smil


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## calibraa (Feb 23, 2008)

Nikki Posted Today, 08:44 AM I'm sure you are aware the steriods for body building are completely illegal? Wow! What a revolutionary legal opinion! ...







Well I know you are being watched closely, but in my country it's easyer to buy steroids, than legal drugs. And no, i don't have problems with feeling guilty. I also tend to know 1000000000 times more about steroids and bodybuilding than most of the fitness-freaks. And how embarassed I am for having to experiment with myself because no doctor can help me and refuse to accept that at the age of 23 I have gone through things that even war veterans haven't. And yes, fiber, peppermint, and mebeverine do not help me at all...Don't worry, diarrhea isn't illegal anywhere, so enjoy it...


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## Nikki (Jul 11, 2000)

A few things:1) Cushings syndrome. Look it up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cushings_disease2) Shrivelling of various important "parts".3) It shouldn't be made up with alcohol- and I've checked this.4) You also take 100mg of amitryptiline- are you sure its not that making the difference?


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## calibraa (Feb 23, 2008)

1. I don't have a clue what do you mean by this link... I found a lot of posts here that show elevated levels of cortisol in IBS sufferers... should they all have Cushings?2. If you mean hypogonadism, even kids in school know what a Post Cycle Therapy is and how and when HCG, Clomiphene citrate and Tamoxifen should be applied in order to "wake up" the HPTA axis.3. Nobody said anithing about drinking alcohol. I personally haven't had any since I've been diagnosed (5 years). Testosterone and most of the other injectable steroids are in oil solution with benzyl alcohol. It is almost impossible 1ml to cause trouble, but who knows - its going straight into the blood.4. I,m living with amitriptyline 4 years already. At the begining it was more than enough, but now it is not. I also found out that it has lowered my endogenous testosterone to a miserable level which akes me really sad.However the theory with the steroids has one huge problem. Everyone here claims that cholesterol-lowering drugs have done miracles for them. And it is not secret that anabolic androgenic steroids (AAS) raise the cholesterol levels in the blood. Even their structures are pretty close. I would love to try Cholestyramine or Colestipol, but they are not available in my country.Another downside with steroids is the fact that they suppress the immune system which makes us more vulnerable to Candidiasis, which is according to most doctors a non-existing condition...


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## Nikki (Jul 11, 2000)

Cushings is often caused by persistant use of anabolic steroids- because the increase your cortisol levels. Yes, normal people can have high cortisol levels and run the risk of cushings, but You are consistantly making it higher increasing your risk of developing cushings. Do you know what your normal levels are? Are you having those levels monitored? Do your research. I've spoken to a doctor about this and checked my pharmacology books about it.What on earth are you doing with the steroid? You are injecting in directly into your blood stream? It is supposed to be administered by intramuscular injection- not directly into your blood stream and no that is NOT the same thing. The route of administration can effect the effect/potency of the drug. Do you know where to give an IM injection to safe?I didn't mean drinking alcohol- i mean the alcohol in the drug- It looks like its benzyl alcohol, which is a solvent/preservative type thing. It shouldn't have an effect on your stomach. The alcohol in it is too small an amount to effect anything. I'm only saying all this because I am concerned that you clearly don't understand the long term implications of what you are doing. You make out that you are knowledgeable about your condition- but by doing this, you are proving that clearly you are not.I'm asking you respectfully not to post on any other threads about your steroid use or encourage others to do so from now on.Nikki


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## smil (Feb 23, 2008)

Nikki,Stress and exercise cause an increase in cortisol and while I would agree that anabolic steroids do block cortisol receptors; it should not be an issue if cycled correctly. I believe, calibraa and I are stating that one should cycle the 2 - 3 months on and 6 months off to normalize ones body.I can not find one study linking Cushing syndrome with anabolic steroids use. It may be possible but, one would have to *seriously* abuse the steroids or have some preexisting condition contributing and ultimately being its cause. I challenge you to share any peer reviewed study or study linking steroid use to Cushing syndrome.Most members of this board have experienced having to educate there doctor about IBS and its treatment. I was forced educated my family doctor about IBS and was astounded to learn the lack of knowledge of IBS by my gastroenterologist. Most doctors no very little about the endocrine system as they spend very little time on it in medical school. I believe calibraa is injecting the steroids intramuscularly and it was an obvious typing mistake. *I am recommending people/men use steroids under a doctor supervision.* How ever, I understand calibraa using them without it. The positives far out weigh the negatives.In terms of the shrinkage of certain body parts or "hypogonadism" they are overly exaggerated. As calibraa stated human chronic gonadotropin HCG can be used during and post cycle to create or mimic leutenizing hormone which the lack of is responsible decrease of endogenic testosterone production. Also with use aromatizing inhibitors such as tomoxifan or arimadex one can stop an estrogen rebound. This all leaves a mans manhood unharmed during and post cycle.Nikki, you seem to be spouting the negative dogma society has regarding steroid use. I am only advocating steroid use under a doctor's supervision and in short and small doses. As I stated earlier steroids are legal in the states with a doctor's prescription. Users are forced to buy from the black market because of the lack of knowledgeable doctors and its outrageous cost. Also, there are so many benefits of increased muscle mass that they are too numerous to list. I understand your intentions are good but you should do some more research. You are a moderator on this board, your words are supposed to carry weight, yet some of the things you stated are just silly and misguided. If I could by lotronex without a script I would as I only needed .5mg a day to live an IBS free life. Currently I can't even get a doctor to prescribe it to me, lotronex that is. smil


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## calibraa (Feb 23, 2008)

Ohhh, I was laughing so hard, that tears came out of my eyes. Who the .... doesn't know that steroids are injected intramuscularly? And you know what, I suppose that from their they enter the bloodstream. But I might be wrong, they might be vapourising into the atmosphere


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## Nikki (Jul 11, 2000)

How dare you speak to me in such a way- you said you were "injecting them straight into the blood stream" in an earlier post- if you do that, you are a very stupid man. Its all to do with the amount of time it takes to enter the blood stream. I suppose you've had proper training on where and how to adminster an IM injection have you? Damn, I suppose all that training i've done is a complete waste of time is it?Smil, I have no problem with people using them under a doctors supervision- that is absolutely fine and a very sensible course of action. I do not agree with people who clearly do not know the risks, or do so from some half-arsed internet searches doing this. also, if you think about it, remembering that anabolic steroids increase cortisol, surely it makes sense that you would be at higher risk of cushings. I will see if i can find a study for you.


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## calibraa (Feb 23, 2008)

"How dare you speak to me in such a way" - why not? Are you my mother? Or the Queen of England? Considering the study, I'm shure You can find one, which claims that Aspartame causes MS, but most of the developed countries are still using it widely. Sorbitol is a horror for us, but all the chewing gums have it as sweetener...And I don't understand why is it so hard for you to accept another point of view except yours. Is this forum only about crying and complaining or is it a place where different ideas are discussed? You know there are young people here who want to live normally and this includes all the stupid things healthy young people are doing. The guy asked, I answered to him and you just couldn't hold yourself from stepping into the discussion explaining how bad are steroids. I hope they make life shorter... About the medical training - i have NEVER seen a nurse to aspirate when injecting intramuscularly... how's that huh?


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## Thai (Aug 22, 2007)

oh PLEASSSSSSE!!!calibraa, enough of the drama.Let's return to civility here and helping each other.That's what we are here for and let me tell you, reading these posts is sure NOT helping me.It is a waste of my time to log on and find this drivel.As for Nikki speaking to you that way.....well, she is the moderator AND a human being. And having said that, it follows that you had no right to speak to her or anyone that way.


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## calibraa (Feb 23, 2008)

OK, let's go cry than


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## Thai (Aug 22, 2007)

<<<<<OK, let's go cry than>>>>>What in the world does this mean????Who is crying?


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## calibraa (Feb 23, 2008)

Thai said:


> oh PLEASSSSSSE!!!calibraa, enough of the drama.Let's return to civility here and helping each other.That's what we are here for and let me tell you, reading these posts is sure NOT helping me.It is a waste of my time to log on and find this drivel.


Than why are you reading it?







The question is simple: For men Could anobolic steroids help IBS-D... I don't see where your opinion is required about what is helping you. I suppose you are not even a male...


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Time for this thread to calm down before it becomes a flame war.You might not like what other people have to say but they have the right to say it without being attacked for their opinion.Time to knock off the drama or this thread will be locked.


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

A lot of people find that medication for a different problem makes IBS symptoms better or worse because of the GI effects that treatment may have.When a drug for something else helps someone's IBS that doesn't mean it is a good option if you only have IBS and do not need it otherwise.


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## calibraa (Feb 23, 2008)

This thread is becoming a trigger





















Of course off-label use is dangerous and stupid. But what is calcium carbonate, what is cholestyramine, what are the anti depressants? Which one of them is intended to treat IBS? I think ANY suggestion could be helpful at least for one person, no matter how dangerous, stupid, illegal it is. SO the main thing that came out from all of this was that anabolic steroids could help somebody but there is no evidence for that. Bodybuilders experimenting with this report mainly mental improvement. Short and clear.


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Some off-label uses actually have clinical data to back them up (antidepressants and Questran for example). It may not be something the company is going to spend millions of dollars on to get approved. It is not an either the FDA approved it for that or there is zero evidence for something. Often there is a good reason something is used off-label.Calcium Carbonate is OTC and generally pretty safe, for whatever that is worth. Not all things are safe enough to be dispensed over the counter.I don't mind people saying something worked for them. However I do think people need to be aware of risks and benefits. Even when something may be safe for one person, it isn't safe for everyone. Even OTC things, for what that is worth.Anything biologically active is going to have risks no matter how many people say they think it is completely harmless. This goes for natural things like herbs as well as pharmaceuticals.Whatever treatment you think worked for you, please allow other people to have their opinions about that treatment. That goes the other way as well.I'm also not convinced of the logic that just because healthy 20 year olds have a certain level of a given hormone (any hormone, not just testosterone) that means that artificially raising the level of that hormone later in life will make you healthy or maintain youth, etc. We've seen with woman's hormones that supplementing things later in life can be detrimental to women's health even if the conventional wisdom for years was that it should protect her health.Sometimes we really don't know all the potential risks even when we think it is something that logically should be beneficial. A lot of things really haven't been studied enough to know for a fact it must be completely safe.


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## Nikki (Jul 11, 2000)

Look,You can do whatever you want- I, nor anybody else is going to stop you. But as what you are doing is proven to be dangerous i do not think you should be posting about it on here. In pharmacology we always ask ourselves if the benefits outweigh the risks- in the case of injecting steroids, that answer would wholeheartedly be no- this is why they are hardly ever used anymore and you end up having to get them on the black market.Anyway, do whatever you want, but keep it off the board.Nikki.ps. I always aspirate


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## Thai (Aug 22, 2007)

calibraaTo answer your questions....I am reading it because I read every post in every topic in every thread in the hopes of learning something.You don't see where my opinion is required on what is helping me???? I don't really care whether you think my opinion is required or not.........many others, who have been here a lot longer than you welcome not just my opinion but many others as well.I could say the same for you, but I won't because my fault with you was never about what you think or believe in, it was and is about how you are talking to people on this board. As for my gender?? That is none of your business, and has no place in this discussion what so ever.


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## smil (Feb 23, 2008)

Kathleen I agree this seems to be turning into a flame war. Post is not oriented at you.I would like to point out that anabolic steroids were legal in the states in the 1980's. A few cases were highly publicized i.e. Lyle Izado La Raiders defensive player and some kids that took outrageously large amounts of steroids for prolonged periods. As a result, there was a media backlash motivating politicians to take action. banning them A small percentage of people use anabolic steroids legally and illegally in the USA each year and while I have no study to provide, I would say it is very plausible very few people are using them to ill effect. Let’s say there are 300 million people in the USA. One third of them are ages 16 - 40 of age. That leaves 100 million people. No lets reduce the number in half (subtracting all the women) leaving us with 50 million males. Know lets say 2 -3% of them use anabolic steroids in any given year that 100,000 to 150,000 male users using steroids. Those are large numbers and I honestly think usage may be higher in certain age groups i.e. young adults. Where are these people dropping like flies. There are a subset of people that abuse anabolic steroids and as with anything abuse can cause danger. Even substances as benign as water can kill you if you drink too much. The medically community in the USA practices reactionary medicine. The positive benefits of using anabolic steroids far outweigh the negatives. With proper doctor supervision the negative side effects can be relegated to near zero. That has spurred the burgeoning hormone replacement therapy movement. I stated earlier this is going to become a growing business and health science. Quality of life is concern for men as life span increases. Testerone is the essence of maleness. I understand IBS is primarily recognized as a disease of women and would expect this board to be read and posted on primarily by the ladies. There seems to be a lot of jealously out there by women with regard to these magic elixirs. There is just no female equivalent for anabolic steroids and if there was I think Nikki and other might have a different outlook on things. I am only recommending steroid use under a doctor’s supervision. With a small cycle of steroids, proper nutrition and exercise you can reach the same results of perfect training for one year in say 8 weeks, were talking about a jump of 20lbs of lean muscle mass and sizable reduction of fat and elevated mood. Through in a small does of growth hormone in there say 3 - 4 IU a day and we talking about even large gains. These gains can be can be kept with proper diet and training. This is an increase your basal metabolic rate all the time not just when you’re exercising. This can be safe for most. More doctors need to look to this. Obesity, heart disease, diabetes and depression kill millions each year. We just need more doctors to take interest in it. I will not post any more on this subject.smil


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## IBD/IBS Author (May 24, 2007)

Calibraa,Go ahead and take your steroids - BUT, when advocating that anybody else try them, or any other 'method' of treatment you need to give all sides of the evidence. The following comes from Medline:Anabolic steroids are man-made substances related to male sex hormones. Medical uses of anabolic steroids include some hormone problems in men, late puberty and muscle loss from some diseases. Bodybuilders and athletes often use anabolic steroids to build muscles and improve athletic performance. But using them this way is not legal or safe. Abuse of anabolic steroids has been linked with many health problems. They range from unattractive to life threatening and includeAcne and cysts Breast growth and shrinking of testicles and in men Voice deepening and growth of body hair in women Heart problems, including heart attack Liver disease, including cancer Aggressive behavior Seems to me that your Agressive behavior towards Nikki might indicate you are having an adverse reaction to them.Chill!


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## calibraa (Feb 23, 2008)

Good Lord! Thank you for explaining me what anabolic steroids are, because I had no idea. They have side effects?First of all I have spent the last 10 years in reading about the sport Bodybuilding. I have red at least 20 books about that, including "Chemical muscle Enhancement", "Anabolics 2006","Building the Perfect Beast" and many other training, nutritional and pharmaceutical ones. Ihave been writing in Bodybuilding forums for much longer than you have been writing here. And no, my behavior is a reflection of IBS, not steroids, and the fact that it is trying to make my life horrible every day. O, and I also have an internet site which promotes Natural bodybuilding for healthy young males, because it's a better way of living! And I'm not just one brainless jerk that is pumping muscles. I'm the youngest finance manager in my country and have studied the last 4 years in english, which is a foreign language for me! Like Smil I am not going to write here any more...


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## IBD/IBS Author (May 24, 2007)

The point is this. . . YOU may be very well-educated about these steroids, but others are not, and when you put up information about things like steroids it is your responsibility to educate your readers about BOTH sides of the equation. I'd say the same thing were you talking about probiotics or colonics.You need to chill and actually hear what we're trying to tell you rather than keep getting defensive - it's not helping your case.


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## Nikki (Jul 11, 2000)

Smil,You have been upfront and honest the whole time here- under a docs supervision is fine. Which is what you are doing- right? Don't feel you have to leave over a disagreement like this. It is not you I have having the problem with.C- Elizabeth has stated how i feel abot it- you do not seem to be regulating it correctly judging by your reactions.Have a rethink.


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## smil (Feb 23, 2008)

Thanks Nikki, I do enjoy posting on this board and have been an avid reader for over three years. IBS.org is therapeutic for me. I currently do not take anabolic steroids. How ever, I do know a number of people that do legally and illegally. AAS will have a future in the US and when my Growth hormone levels and test levels begin to seriously drop I definitely will. All the men in my family lived well into their 90's or are alive not always living a healthy lifestyle. Quality of life im sure will become a more important issue as life span in the US expands. I just wish more doctors would look into this. I could probably list a dozen erroneous reasons why the medical community and the current political environment are anti steroids. I have personally experienced and seen the positives they can provide for men. I would never recommend their usage to females as subject title "For Men could anabolic steroids help with IBS-D.Also, IBD/IBS Author I can understand your reaction to calibraa post. You listen to the media and pull and unbalanced article of Medline. Your post was not very authortative as it was one sided. If you did some research into the subject or talked to a doctor that actually prescribes them your opinion of their usage would change. If you really want to persuade Caliberaa, I and others provide case studies as the article you posted is like a vague summary of a 10,000 page book. I could easily shoot down every one of the negative side effects you provided. Once again I recommend steroid usage only under the supervision of a doctor. How ever, that does mean for my own personal use I would. Cost and availability are always concerns. If I could get lotronex without a script I would take in a heart beat.smil


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## 22943 (Aug 27, 2005)

There is evidence linking Cushing's and steroid use. I should know, I'm currently being evaluated for the disease and have been doing extensive research on it. The only way that steroid use could possibly be safe at all is if someone's testosterone level falls below the "normal" range and they need to raise it into that range. Any more than that is not safe. Ask any endocrinologist (yes, I have friends that are currently medically being prescribed "T" as it's called in our world). HGH is extremely hard to come by even from an endocrinologist. You must go through extensive IGF-1 testing, if that proves that you are low or close to low then you will have to go through a stim test to prove that your body is not making enough to be able to obtain it by prescription. I have friends that need it and can't get it because they missed the mark by one point on the test.Cushing's is absolutely horrible. I would take my IBS at it's worst over my Cushing's any day of the week. Cushing's destroys your body. It will literally waste away your muscles. Be careful with what you're doing because even though it may give you relief today, it may leave you with a lasting impact that will affect your life 5 or 10 years down the road.


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## smil (Feb 23, 2008)

LOL, why do women hate test so much? Please stop posting erroneous information so I have to stop setting people straight. Please provide some peer reviewed study linking anabolic steroids with Cushing I "challenge You to do it". I hope you under stand anabolic steroids are a subset of steroids. Here is a definition of steroids from which anabolic steroids are a subset. Any of numerous naturally occurring or synthetic fat-soluble organic compounds having as a basis 17 carbon atoms arranged in four rings and including the sterols and bile acids, adrenal and sex hormones, certain natural drugs such as digitalis compounds, and the precursors of certain vitamins. honugirl AKA Accident Girl, I think it is safe to say you are a woman and are not being tested for Cushing disease because of anabolic steroid use. I would wonder why any woman is being prescribed male sex hormones. If so, I am positive you are taking them at miniscule levels unless, sexual reassignment surgery is your goal. In which case I would not comment on it as I am not knowledgeable on that issue. What is a normal testosterone level? Does it change based on body size, age and ethniticity. Would it surprise you to know that Blacks and Italians typically have higher levels of testosterone than other ethnic groups? I am an Italian myself. Do you under stand Testosterone levels decline beginning around 18 and become very very low in a males early 50's. HGH follows a similar pattern Where are you located? I know there are a lot of Brits on this board and I know how they ration medicine out there. Which I think is horrible. In the states we can seek treatment any time any where and if we can afford it you can get HGH. It is common knowledge that men in their late 30's, 40's and 50's have lowered HGH levels. There are plenty of doctors that can prescribe it and do. I am only speaking about the USA. I have always said one should use anabolic steroids under a doctor’s supervision. Also, I stated that men should do small short cycles to minimize side effects. I think it safe to say you are finding your anecdotal evidence on people that abuse anabolic steroids. In the USA, AID's patients are prescribed HGH and testosterone, "T" as you called it. If it was the poison you make out to be than there is no way they could get it. If your friends really need it, tell them to come to the USA and I am sure they can find a doctor to prescribe it to them. Also, as a women I seriously doubt you know any males receiving anabolic steroids. It is not something men talk about because of the social stigma attached to it and us guys like to boost of natural gains even when were are getting help. Do some more research. If you do have Cushing disease, than my prays go out to you, but please don't try to link it anabolic steroid use. Anabolic steroids and HGH can be abused like almost any substances we put in to are bodies. Are you aware Imodium (loperamide) has cortisol reducing properties? Are you going to tell everyone on this board to stop using it out of fear of getting Cushing’s disease. I think not!smil


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Women have testosterone, naturally. Really, they do.It isn't that uncommon for small doses of testosterone to be used when that is out of whack in women. They only use the amounts normally found in human females (so not doses that give female athletes male bodies and hair removal issues). Often a lack of testosterone in older women can be part of why they have sexual dysfunction and restoring the normal balance of hormones that should be in the body can help with that and other problems.I still say like every other chemical, both natural in the body and not, if something is biologically active it has side effects. If you are taking enough to cause more than normal rates of muscle development you are taking it at a dose that is biologically active (although hormones are pretty active at every dose). Heck even guys who have to take it because of testicular removal from disease can have side effects and they are just replacing the amount they should have, not trying to boost it above what would be normal for their age, etc.Now at any given dose of any chemical some people will have side effects and some people won't. A lot depends on your particular physiology and how your liver clears stuff out of the body, including the normal clearance of hormones that keeps most people in balance. A totally safe dose for one person can be a really bad idea for someone else. I don't think testosterone or other anabolic steroids are somehow completely different from every other chemical on the planet.If you were saying the same things about any drug or supplement (it's all good, there is no down side, etc) you'd be getting the same, excuse me there are actual real side effects response. Making this that us silly women are just jealous of your manhood (natural or artificially enhanced) really destroys your credibility. If your argument requires a personal attack, no matter how gently delivered it is never a good thing in a discussion or a debate. It make your point of view look weak. Besides we really discourage that sort of personal attack especially because this is a support/help board and that sort of thing doesn't make it so people get the help they need. It turns people off and they either stop reading what you have to say or leave the board and I don't think that is your intent.And back to the topic at hand...Just because you haven't had any side effects does not mean any given chemical is thus side effect free for all people, even with medical supervision.One reason as a woman I worry is because I am acutely aware of just how much damage the "lets just make you like a 20 year old" hormone use in women has had. All the logic in the world said it prevented all sorts of chronic diseases. Funny thing, it actually increases them when they finally did the studies and controlled for things like rich women are more likely to get hormone replacement therapy as well as good medical care for other things and are less likely to die because they get treatment for everything compared to poor women who get little or no treatment at all. I just don't think that there really is the evidence that there is only good to be gotten from doping up with steroids for men. I've seen some evidence that body builders may have the same sorts of hormone-induce chronic health issues that we see in artificially "youthified" women. Most of it has been at the we see the damage level, not we can quantify the deaths. And I know that maybe they take more than you do, but the levels here seem above mere replacement if you get sudden large changes in one's body because of the hormones.You may be one of the lucky ones that never has a problem, but I don't think you can paint such a universally rosy picture for all people, or that it will be the cure all for all diseases of men like you think it was. Female hormones (which are in theory way more health protective as women usually don't get middle age men diseases until they are 10 years past menopause) surely weren't the cure all we thought they were a decade or two ago.I've followed those studies pretty carefully as I've got younger than usual female heart disease in my family. From the early data I really thought that hormone replacement therapy was going to be the way to prevent what happened to the other people in my family from happening to me. Now, with the hard data in, I know it will make it more likely I will have those problems so I'm facing having to do things the old fashioned all-natural way and just be good with diet and lifestyle rather than hope the hormones will save me.


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## 22943 (Aug 27, 2005)

I am in fact in the states and many of my friends cannot just go to any physician and get HGH, especially if they want it to be covered by insurance. HGH is not cheap. Most people cannot afford it if it's not covered by insurance. There is a "normal" range for testosterone, I can't quote you the exact range because I'm not at my endocrinologist right now, but there is a range for both males and females. Believe it or not, in my search for a cure for what's happening to my body I was forced to learn all about the hormones in the body both in a man's body and in a woman's body because I had to learn the ratios to see where I was while I was being tested. I do know people being prescribed "T" because of pituitary tumors. Because I'm being tested for a tumor and one of my very close friend's spouses has a tumor, we've talked about his experiences, his tests and his treatments. I think the message that many of us are trying to deliver is more about trying to get you guys to think about what your doing to your body today may have consequences on your body later. The reason hormone replacement is out there is just that, replacement for what your bodies would make normally, nothing more, nothing less. By the way, I couldn't advocate for people to stop taking Imodium because it won't do anything. It would have nothing to do with causing Cushing's. Lowering cortisol can put people into what's called an Addison's crisis if it sinks low enough and I guarantee, you don't want to go there!!!! It sucks.


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Just to add, a lot of the drugs AIDs patients are given are rather toxic, but they do get ones that you wouldn't give anyone else unless it was also for a life threatening disease.I don't get the "if they give it to AIDs patients it cannot possibly have any toxicity at all" viewpoint.The wasting away that AIDS patients go through demands treatment and there is a risk benefit analysis applied to everything they are given. In their dire circumstances they will be given things you wouldn't give a healthy person, even if it is something that is a normal chemical found in the body.{sarcasm}But feel free to ignore me because I'm just a stupid woman with penis-envy and all the toxicology classes I took were just propaganda anyway{/sarcasm}Sorry for the sarcasm, but that is kinda who I feel, and I'm pretty much done pounding my head against the brick wall here. You want to believe the propaganda you want, and you are entitled to that, just like the druggie kids in high school. (not the pot heads, the speed freaks, if you must know) They were convinced that anything that anyone said bad about their drug of choice was just being deluded by people who didn't know anything about drugs at all. I think I've said what I feel I need to and there isn't any point repeating myself for another dozen posts or dozen pages.


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## absoluterob (Mar 10, 2008)

Hi everyone, I think i can add some real evidence for this thread.Im 32, young athletic white male. I've had ibs-d for about 15 years. I've tried it all .. everything out there... anyhow, i discovered pubmed (that medical news journal search thing) and found articles relating testosterone and ibs in male patients. I went to see a male sex clinic, and i insisted on getting my testosterone tested.. the doctor, to be honest, usually gets old men who need viagara.. so i got my serum testosterone tested, adrenals, and another testosterone, i think it was free flowing or i forget the exact name.. the normal range for serum testosterone according to the clinic doing the blood work for men my age was b/w 7.7 - 15.. mine was 3.2I asked him about the link with ibs.. and told him how when i was younger, i took steroids for 2 months and when i did my IBS was gone, completely.. he never heard of this connection.. but told me he would try to treat my symptoms.. and prescribed me androgel .. but i didn't like applying a gel everyday to my arm, so i preferred any other option.. he wrote me an rx for Delatestryl .. to do a sub-cuteaneous injection once a week (its in the stomach fat essentially so you dont notice it) so what came from all of this.. well, the increase in testosterone goes up over a 3 month period.. i lost some body fat, was no longer lethargic.. but most importantly...all my bloating was gone.. completely..done, i never felt like i had something in my stomach all the time.. and my urgency went away.. anyhow, it really helped for me, its not a 100 percent solution, but wow what a diff.. so now im seeing an endocrinologist, and he took me off the testosterone for 3 months to see what's really going on with my endocrin system.. he is one of the best in canada.. and i showed him the pubmed articles.. and he didn't dismiss them, .. and he wants to find out what's going on.. i'll keep u posted.


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