# what about permanent pain?



## Joan Gregg

I am much worse than when I last posted to this board. Do you recommend hypnotherapy for someone who is ALWAYS in intestinal pain now, because of IBS and a motility problem? There IS someone in Philadelphia who does IBS.


----------



## cookies4marilyn

Hi Joan,I am so sorry to hear this, Joan... I hope you can begin to feel better again very soon.Firstly, are you absolutely certain the pain is from IBS and no other causes? I have to ask that because of my own situation - I had other stuff in addition to IBS that caused severe abdominal pain - but most likely you have had it already checked out I am sure.You say there is someone in Philly who does IBS, I assume you mean a clinical therapist/hypnotherapist who specializes in IBS therapy? or a gastro? Either way, it never hurts to at least have a preliminary consulation to determine if he or she is right for your specific needs.I do know that I have had success with Mike's chronic pain program, and it has reduced my need for pain meds (valium,etc.) for my abdominal adhesion pain. But sounds like another round of the program may be helpful as well as several people have found further relief for remaining or even escalating symptoms that sometimes can occur.In the meantime, listen again to your favorite sessions of the IBS Audio Program until I get you the schedule, then begin the entire program again. If you want me to contact Mike for you, let me know, I will be happy to do so, though he is out of his office this week.Take care, and I hope to be of some help to you and that you can get this pain sorted as soon as possible - email me for the schedule as mentioned in the other thread. All the best and (((HUGS))) to you to feel better, hon.~ Marilyn


----------



## Kathleen M.

There are a lot of mind-body things (like hypnotherapy, biofeedback, etc) that are done for "permanent" pain types of things no matter the cause. Even if the source of the pain will never change, how you respond to it/cope with it can make a big difference in how much it impacts your life.K.


----------



## Joan Gregg

I don't know why my signature keeps disappearing! I asked Jeffrey for it back.I am IBS pain predominant with a "transit" disorder according to Craig Aronchick of Pennsylvania Hospital. Have had pelvic exam, ultrasound, cat scan, colonosopy, sigmoidscopy, upper gi, swallowed barium markers--all "normal in '03" except pelvic floor dysfunction. The pain and instability of my stools has worsened, worsened, worsened since these tests. My pain was about a 4 until September 25 when burning across my transverse colon never stopped again. All solid food is causing excruciating pain.


----------



## Kathleen M.

Joan...I've had that issue with the sig as well. I think it depends if you are logged in when you post, or you type in your name and password on the post...or something like that.I think it is a glitch in the software. When something new happens/changes (like this pain you are describing) you should run that past the doctor. Just because you have IBS, etc that doesn't stop something new from happening. I would just want to be re-checked for ulcers/gastritis with pain that high and burning.K.


----------



## Kathleen M.

test


----------



## Kathleen M.

test2


----------



## Kathleen M.

Yep that is the bug.If you log in before you hit the reply button it puts your sig on there.If you are not logged in, and put in your log in information in the post screen there is no sig.Hope this helps.K.


----------



## Joan Gregg

The pain IS IBS pain predominant. Thank you for your concern. I have no ulcers, pancrease problems, etc. It is exacerbated by stress.To prove the power of the mine, let me tell you I have no urge, despite the pain, to empty my rectum at work. As soon as I get home, in my driveway, my rectum fills and I must run in the house.


----------



## cookies4marilyn

Yep Joan, that does sound like the power of the mind - your mind sees the driveway and acts on cue. This does put a different light on things,as this sounds like pure IBS mind-gut connection.I can't really say anything more than my post above, but do email me if you still need the schedule. Otherwise, if you feel the live therapy would help, go for it - you may want to listen to Mike's program in the meantime, and perhaps you would be a better candidate for live biofeedback therapy - where you actively work through the connection. Kath can give you more info on that if you need it.Also, perhaps make a note of a pattern - if you come home from work at about the same time each day- and this happens each work day - does it happen at the same time on the days when you don't go to work, and are not driving into the driveway, do you still get this? It is a complicated thing, how the mind does this - pain especially. I don't really feel qualified to make suggestions over cyber-space to you, but until you decide if you are seeing that person who does IBS therapy, you may want to log all this in a diary, all the times the pain happens and all the times the pain is followed by what you mention above.Then, log times when you do not have pain or the above urgency and what you are thinking/doing. If you can make this connection as to say, for example, today is Sunday, it is the time I would be driving in the driveway, and I have no pain, etc. this tells you your body can have a time when it feels OK, and transfer this over to other situations.But, above in your first post you mention you are always in pain, so therefore, I am wondering if live hypnotherapy or biofeedback from a therapist would be best for you.I feel so badly for you, but whatever stressors, etc. are making this more pronounced for you - they need to be identified and dealt with somehow.Feel free to email me or perhaps Mike if you want to go that route, otherwise, you may find live therapy helpful in your situation. You can do a search on this site for more links/info on biofeedback if you feel this is something for you.We can support you and make suggestions, but you know what is ultimately best for you to pursue in your own road to healing. I wish all the best for you and let us know how you get on.Take care, and hope you are better. ((((HUGS)))


----------



## Joan Gregg

I am always in pain, but there is a difference between pain and urgency. On days I have off, I don't run home from ANYWHERE to empty my rectum but I am still in pain.This work thing has gone on since about '97, before all the pain. It's simple. I hate my job, feel stressed by my daughter, and had 8 bad years with my husband. That "fight or flight" stomachache now never goes down. Am in therapy; will go back to hypnotherapy; and visit a pain clinic with no drugs next wed.What is biofeedback if not rectal manometric biofeedback? Please explain.


----------



## Joan Gregg

The latest is I wake up at night with severe pain in my DESCENDING COLON. Then, if I take too much Zelnom, ascending, transverse, and descending all rear their ugly heads. In august I didn't go one day and felt twinges. Today, if I don't go I have roiling throughout lowever colonic system all day.My appetite is getting less and less, as all solid food brings pain. No doc can advise me what to eat. The weight loss does NOT mean cancer.


----------



## cookies4marilyn

Oh Joan, you poor lady. On the biofeedback, I really meant to say cognitive behavioral therapy, but it sounds as if you already have had biofeedback. I am not an expert in either of these treatment methods, though I did use some CBT in other areas with patients, but not IBS. Sorry about the confusion - my error in using the wrong term. But Kath is your expert for CBT as she has had great success with it for IBS.There is really nothing more I can say through cyber space to suggest to you, other than to give you encouragement and support. Since you are going for therapy and the pain clinic, as well as the hypnotherapy, that sounds like a good pro-active plan to beat this thing.I will say this on a personal level, that I know for a fact that my own situational stressors that I have now and have had in the past, directly contribute to IBS, and that it is certainly possible to have ongoing symptoms as you do. I know all about that "flight or fight", being divorced myself, and now dealing with a teen daughter and also a young adult son, as a single mom - many times I get twinges! So do my non-IBS friends with similar situations. But you mention waking up in pain at night, and also taking "too much" Zelnorm - and then getting pain. If you are noticing a "cause and effect" from taking this med, then speak to your doc about adjusting your dosage, or perhaps consider that it may not be right for you. Only you and your doctor can determine this, but the fact you mention it here, concerns me. I hope you are OK.IBS in and of itself usually does not awaken a person in the night - so you are dealing with different causes - stressors and IBS, and also the possible results of the drug - it is hard to single out one cause for your pain, and I am concerned for you about awakening; is it due to the effects of the Zelnorm, or would you have been awakened prior to being on it? Something perhaps to consider when talking to the doc.Do mention all of this to your therapist and the doctor, and the clinicians at pain clinic, and if you are willing, perhaps follow the suggestions I gave you in the other post above, about logging your symptoms, surroundings, mood, etc. when having pain - and if there is ever a time when you don't have the pain - record that as well. That may give you some insight or a pattern. But it sounds to me like you are having IBS along with other co-existing conditions, as you mention in your sig - pelvic floor dysfunction - and it is hard to differentiate what pain is from what source - and IBS pain can make your other pain worse, and vice versa. I know this myself from having abdominal adhesions from surgery - the pain is not IBS, but can bring on IBS pain, which I do control to a managable level with Mike's chronic pain program, the IBS Program and the Towards Inner Peace. I was actually surprised that the pain program helped the abdominal adhesion pain, as I was on some hefty pain killers for that, and wasn't wanting to be on them, so now my need for them is virtually eliminated.At one point, years ago (prior to hypno) all solid foods gave me IBS - I was on crackers and water- and I asked the doc for a permanent nutritonal IV. I was that desparate. He had another IBS patient on it, and said that person got complications, so he said no to me. Food does not cause IBS, and is a totally different issue, they can be triggers, and you can also have allergies or sensitivities, in addition to that, but that is what they are, not IBS. We know this because a true IBS patient without other co-existing food "conditions" can go back to eating anything that previously was on their trigger list once their IBS conditon is addressed or goes into remission - and also there are inconsistencies - one day fine, the next day not. So you are right in saying that no doc can advise you what to eat (or not to eat), and even those liquid diets can give trouble as well. Then you have the issue of food elimination giving more problems because the diet is unbalanced, etc. which would give anyone problems. For those in which a diet does work, there are two factors into play, one is that there are other things going on besides IBS that the diet addresses and also the belief or placebo effect, that the diet will work actually works toward symptom alleviation. Some people come away from IBS with special diets and others don't respond to them, so again, there is no one therapy that works in the very same way for every single person. As I have done diet, medications, and everything else, the hypno worked the best for me, and the majority of those who try it, for others it may be CBT, biofeedback, meds or diet for whatever reason it is appropriate for that individual. Since you have had all the tests and everything has checked out, the only thing that would alleviate your pain, according to what you mention, would be to not eat at all. Have you ever fasted? I remember the Go-Lytely regimens and after doing that I felt better because there was nothing there to give me pain and in my case, the D. If you still have the pain when completely empty, this is another thing to mention at the clinic. Is there any way you could get a different job? I know that is a tough one with how things are these days, and retirement built up and all, but if it is taking your quality of life away, perhaps it is something also to consider. My friend worked in a job she hated for years and years, and she wanted to quit but couldn't get the nerve. Then she broke her leg and couldn't get to work because she had complications and two surgeries. She eventually went back there out of duty, and it hit her that they didn't care one bit about her leg, her pain or anything about her as a person, so she finally quit. She now has a job she likes much better and her mood and everything is much better - and she does not have IBS. So another thing to consider, though, I know - a scary, area to be sure and not a likely resolution, but had to mention it. Ever think or wonder if you did have a different job that you liked, what your life would be like? At least consider what it would be like and weigh the pros and cons - money and meeting expenses is always a scary thing - I know this first hand, just food for thought, I know it may and probably isn't something you can reasonably consider, but had to mention it because you did.Well, again, this most likely wasn't that helpful, because I can't do anything or suggest anything other than what your docs will or have said, other than to give you my thoughts and experiences, so just know that you are in my thoughts that you get this sorted and get some true good relief from this very very soon. ((((HUGS))) to you Joan, and all the best. Take care of yourself. And again, let me know if you need anything. I am so sorry you are in this pain, and I will continue to keep you in my thoughts and prayers... xx~ Marilyn


----------



## BQ

Hey Joan, So sorry you are suffering so. I was *so hoping you would have found some good lasting relief by now.I agree with K and Marilyn here.But maybe another thing to consider is this: http://www.healthyaudio.com/program_titles.htm It is an audio program for chronic pain.I dunno tho, ya might wanna email Mike and ask which program he thinks might be best for you right now. I doubt it would hurt ya but Mike would know best.Joan, of all the folks I have known on this BB, I must say, you have one of the most impressive sets of Mind Armies.







Ya may need reinforcements to get them in their place! Thinking of you and hoping the pain beast goes back from whence he came real soon for you.







BQ


----------



## Joan Gregg

Let me re-iterate that I am in pain all day, go to sleep in pain, wake up in pain, and sometimes the Zelnorm, which is supposed to regulate pain does only worsen it.I have been tested an retested and told I have IBS pain predominant with a transit disorder. This has worsened since March of 04. I realize that the Rome Criteria lists pain waking you up as an alarm signal. However, I HAVE IBS PAIN PREDOMINANT WITH A TRANSIT DISORDER. No female problems, no adhesions, no pseudoobstruction, only pelvic floor dyfunction. Food makes my colonic system contract vigorously; hence, the pain.It seems only Spasman and Nancy cat feel as badly as I. I guess the next step is the chronic pain tapes. Chronic pain is hard when you're losing more and more weight (doctors are aware of this, too).


----------



## BQ

Joan, Yes, I hear you.Can you ask the hypno person about the chronic pain audio?? Maybe they will weigh in and give you an idea of what would help. Joan, I know it is hard, but don't give up. Keep at it! You are doing very good things for yourself and I hope it pays off and soon!Keep us posted hon.







BQ


----------



## cookies4marilyn

(((((Joan)))) - Hugs to you hon - I feel so helpless to help you - both BQ and I understand you are in terrible pain - but you are being pro-active and trying things, so just keep on keeping on.Regarding this:Food makes my colonic system contract vigorously; hence, the pain.As I mentioned in one of my posts above, you may be a candidate for a nutritional IV - not gastric feeding because that still involves the digestive system - but an IV - I can't imagine what you are going through - I have chronic pain too, but not like yours. Since you are in pain 24/7, you need drastic measures - ask about this if it is a possibility. I know it may not be a long term solution, but if it gives the colon a resting period, maybe it's worth a try. I don't know, I'm not a doc, and you are doing all you can there,so I am coming up empty on anything else to offer you. But I do think Mike's Chronic Pain 110 Program may be helpful - even if it takes the edge off - but I can only suggest it from my expereince.You still have not emailed me for the listening schedule - if you still need it , do let me know. Mike is away this week, but I know he would be happy to help you as well, so do perhaps consider emailing him at some point if you wish.In the meantime, just know I am praying for you.I just wish I could do something more to take away your pain - i am so sorry you are suffering like this... ((HUGS)) xxx~ Marilyn


----------



## BQ

Joan I am rolling good stuff your way and hope you are coping ok.Let us know how Wednesday goes.XXOOBQ


----------



## Joan Gregg

Marilyn, I received the schedule. Thanks. Doc took me OFF Robinul, and all laxatives. I must admit the pain level is down. However, the latest is I can't empty my SIGMOID colon! Not fully, anyway. Have posted to kmottus on the constipation board to see if kegels will help. Maybe I irrigated with enema bag too much. (THIS new development started last week). See, I have stool that falls down the tract all day (the transit problem)Doc promises I won't lose my life; I won't be on IV, etc. BQ, ol' buddy, thanks for your thoughts.


----------



## BQ

Hey Joan, I was in the UNC chat with experts tonight (the topic was Bowel Accidents) and I asked if Kegels would help strengthen the anal sphincter and they said yes that they are the basic exercise in a biofeedback treatment for those with incontinence and lessened sensation. I am not sure your anal sphincter needs strengthening though. Sometimes I know for me when things are irritated down there, I can get incomplete evac. I have tried getting my whole self in a tub and relaxing and that seems to help get those muscles to do what they are supposed to. But you might want to ask the Doc about Kegels for incomplete evac. The other thing that helped me with it I discovered by accident. I was having a spell of incomplete evac and then I pulled my neck out of whack (hanging curtains or something)and it was spasmed to the 100th exponential. I went to the Doc for the pain in my neck and he gave me muscle relaxants. Took care of the neck & the bum! LOL (((((((Joan)))))))Let us know how you do tomorrow.I've got ya covered with good stuff.







BQ


----------



## Joan Gregg

That Wed. was the meeting with the hypno. She got mad at me for not following doc's directions.Three sessions of medical acupuncture--nada.Went back to G.P. who's known me since dirt: says it's mostly stress related and will eventually resolve.Am now off every laxative and go every day with incomplete evac; today a GIANT mass of soft stool stayed in my lower rectum and I had to pull it out. See hypno gal again today. I know it's not normal to go fishing around up there.  I don't know if the pelvic floor dysfunction is from too tight inner sphincter or from a "fallen" upper pelvic floor (I do not have a rectocele or enterocele).


----------



## NancyCat

JG-I am so sorry that you are still having so much misery. The IBS expert I went to did much to validate my pain but not much in the way of stopping it. She put me on paxil for the associated anxiety and it does seem to help but for now my IBS issues (C or I cant stop going)remain the same as well as the discomfort. Its like I can feel everything moving around constantly, sometimes it drives me crazy. It isnt excruciating pain in my case, but its always there to some extent, if I go or if I dont go. It always feels like something is stuck in my sigmoid even if I go til the cows come home. My episodes of going and going have seemed to calm down to the point where I only get like this once a week or so, down from every 3 days, but for me the worst part is that I just cant seem to get a handle on when its going to happen. A glass of water can trigger things if its going to happen. I am so weary of having to spend so much energy and time dealing with this. Besides the pain its such a drag. At least for me at this time the paxil seems to have made me not as crazed by what I do or dont do, and allows me to forget the pain/sensations at times. If I go out and come back as soon as I pull into my driveway I get pains/urges but unfortunately I cant always act on them, ie-nothing happens, just feels like its going to. Please excuse me for highjacking your thread and venting so. glad that you have hooked up with Marilyn, she has some great suggestions. I very much want to do some CBT or some sort of therapy. Unfortunately the dr I go to doesnt know anyone in this area trained to do this for IBS as she is new to this area. Hopefully she will hook up with someone as she said they have gotten great results with meds plus a form of therapy.(She spent 2 years ###UNC with Dr Drossman)Still I WISH I WAS NORMAL


----------



## denise.bradley

Hello;Ladies been a while since I popped over here but I had wanted to share some thing that a friend had taught me then I started reading this. Joan god I can fully understand where you are coming from. But Maryln said find the true source of your pain. I now have chronic pain since all of my blessed surgeries. And oh yes it also comes from my bowel. I had three of them in my belly button area two of which were hernias that afected my bowel. The last did the damage. I have major scare tissue thanks to it. Two years ago I would go between 30 to 40 times a day now I am lucky if I go once every 3 weeks and yes thats an ouchy. I can't wear anything snug on my belly any more. I have however learned to take Mikes tapes and put them into good practice and even worked it around abit to my own system. I used it when I had surgery. Drove the the doctor nuts and nurses because I wouldn't use the pain killers until I was popping sweat bad. Anyway he finally asked me how I was doing it and I told him hypnothreapy. I would pin point my pain move it to a box then place it in the box and tie it with a large bow and keep it there. If the bow couldn't get tied then I was beyond my pain tolerance. The other one I use alot is the white light. They know when I am sweating bullets and not responding to them I am concentrating and I tend to then get lectured for pushing myself to far. But I have learned get control and for that I have an extremely high pain tolereance so I am told.I learned something new from a hindu from and I know I am going to spell this wrong sorry. they mediate and they use the schrockra. Its the spot in your temple between your two eyes. It takes about a half hour and when you get there its about 60 seconds of pure energy. But wow! Its worth it. I had to keep practicing it but I got it about two weeks ago and wow was it great for the body. Maryln or Eric you will probably of heard of this.Joan good luck on this and keep practicing.Denise


----------



## cookies4marilyn

Hi DeniseGood to "see" you here again - yes, I have heard of chakra - I believe that is the spelling.I can relate to your similar pain as mine - do you have Mike's Chronic Pain 110 Program? It sounds like you have a fantastic handle on it now - thank you for sharing your success using hypnotherapy for your pain.I think the box and the pain imagery is fantastic - whatever works, I say go for it!!All the best to you Denise, and take care - and happy holidays! xx (((HUGS)) ~ Marilyn


----------

