# Good results with probiotic, next step?



## tempy (Mar 21, 2009)

Hello,I've been lurking here for some time, and have learned a lot. Now I have some news that prompted me to post.So about 2 years ago, I caught an absolutely devastating stomach bug (high fever for nearly a week, constant diarrhea, no vomiting.) Since then, my bowels never quite returned to normal, and would cyclically go from merely "finnicky" to severely life-disturbing cycles of bad constipation followed by bad diarrhea. I finally went to a doctor who diagnosed me with IBS, and gave me very vague advice about what to do about it, so I just tried to live with it. During the good times I told myself I was just being an anxious hypochondriac, but during the bad cycles I was convinced that this is more than just a "sensitive gut."My last flare-up was so out of the blue and so bad, however, that I started to read as much as I could about it and found lots of studies supporting probiotic use for PI-IBS. At the time I was suffering so much that I just went straight to the store and picked the first probiotic pills I saw, pretty much randomly. (Natrol biobeads, containing a total of 1 billion of the following Lactobacillus acidophilus, Bifidobacterium Bifidum, Bifidobacterium Longum, Lactobacillus rhamnosus). I was careful to not get my hopes up and to watch out for the placebo effect, but the effect was nevertheless immediate and drastic. The very next day, the brutal D and C cycle I was in was disrupted and I had a totally normal (and muccus-free for the first time in ages) BM. Since then, my BM have returned almost entirely to how they were before the stomach bug. In fact, I had totally forgotten how my bowels used to behave before all this, only to be reminded when they returned to the same color and rhythms that I knew for most of my life. This was all about 3 weeks ago, and I am still taking one of these beads daily, and my BM rhythms are still great. In fact, if I were to spend the rest of my life in the state that I'm in now, I would take that happily. But since the initial euphoria of progress has worn off, I am now noticing that I am still more uncomfortably gassy than I used to be, and the vague bowel aches that I had at the worst of it have eased, but have not disappeared. So now, I am trying to address the following questions, and would be grateful for any hints:How long do I stay on the probiotics? I am terrified to rock the boat, so is this something I take for the rest of my life or should I try to wean myself off them?Since I still have some minor symptoms, should I just live with them, or try to take care of them too? If so, would it be wise to try to add some other probiotics to the mix?In general, with IBS that responds to probiotics, should probiotics be seen as a medicine that can cure or rather as a permanent treatment for a permanent condition?Thanks in advance!


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## IanRamsay (Nov 23, 2008)

hiIm glad that you have found some relief! the issue with pro biotics is that it is completely personal. pro biotics have cured me but it took me a long time to find teh right one. Basically you cant OD on probiotics. here are some guidelines for you to get teh best out of taking them.the following strains have teh most research behind them in IBS studies with good positive outcomes in studies.L. bulgaricus, L. reuteri, L. plantarum, L. casei, B. bifidus, S. salivarius, and S. thermophilus and the yeast Saccharomyces boulardii. THERE ARE MANY MANY OTHERS though!here is some general info on taking them, if you dont already know it!They are best taken in the morning on an empty stomach, 30 minutes before food. ideally they should be taken for at least 3 weeks as it may take that long to see any results. although some people have a very good reaction in days. after 2 to 3 months they should be stopped for a while. if after a few days you start to notice that you can feel a physical difference or a worsening of your symptoms, start taking them again. other wise, there is no need to continue taking them untill you feel that you do need them. there isnt any harm in taking them as a permanant suppliment if they are taken is small numbers like in actimel or activia yoghurt, but if you are taking 10 billion cultures a day, it is good to give the body a break every now and then.also If at all possible, replace the FOS prebiotic with natural fruit and veg if you can tollerate it. FOS can play hell with the tummy in some people while it dosent bother others.After you start to take the probiotics, you may feel initially worse for a day to a week or so. this is called the herx reaction and unfortunately is perfectly normal. (Google it to get more detailed info). some people are not affected by herx and some are.if it gets too much though, just stopp teh probiotics for a few days and re start them at a half dose for a two weeks, then a three quarter dose for two weeks and then the full dose, and see how you get on with that.as you dont seem to have been affected by teh herx reaction, i would go ahead and add some different ones to teh strains that you are already taking. the worst that can happen is that they wont agree with you (which is rare), or that they wont do any thing at all. you could also try simply taking double doses of teh probiotic that you are currentlyt taking to see if that makes you any better. Basically, play around with it, rock teh boat. if you fall out of it, all you have to do is get back in and carry on as you where before. CHeersIan


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## Soothiechins (Mar 24, 2009)

Hi.I'm new to the forum and i wonder if anybody experienced (unwanted) weight loss after taking probiotics? In approx 4 months i lost 7 kilos after taking a daily pill of vegetarian acidophilus pill from holland and barrets (i am male - 43). I chose this one because is diary free and apparently i have lactose intolerance. Overall I must confess that my IBS symptoms have improved, my bloating episodes dont last very long, i dont have regurgitation feeling any more and a bad taste in my mouth. Also - strangely enough - I have to go to the bathroom twice in the mornings at 1 or 2 hours interval only to empty my bowels satisfactory. I dont have constipations either but as i mentioned at the begining, I am concerned about the weight loss. I sleep ok and have 30min walk everyday at lunchtime but my muscle mass is gone... Can anybody give me some advise, please? should i go to the doctor or take vitamins?many thanks.soothie


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## tempy (Mar 21, 2009)

Thanks for the reply IanRamsay. I looked at some of your other posts and have learned quite a bit from you. In general this website has taught me much more than doctors, I'm sad to say.After some time of being "cured" on these probiotic pills, I seem to have somewhat fallen off the boat, as my BMs have returned to their IBS-ish lighter and looser state, though they are still formed and I am not in the totally hellish D-C cycle, and am dealing with very little pain or gas. However, this is not as good as my "totally cured" period and I am curious what could have changed.One theory I have is that I put the pills in the same room as my shower, which has no window and tends to get sauna-caliber hot and steamy. After reading the warning label about keeping them COLD-AND-DRY, I realized that I may have been taking dead pills for about 5 days, and I threw these out and bought some new ones about two days ago, though my symptoms have not changed in these two days. Also in the middle of taking these potentially-dead pills I was still feeling good and decided to tempt fate by eating the worst trigger food I know of (indian food from my job's cafeteria, which is warm tomato-sauce based and loaded with lentils/chick peas/other delicious fiber-bombs).Does anyone have any idea about how fragile probiotics actually are, and any tips on storing them?


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## IanRamsay (Nov 23, 2008)

Thats a difficult one. to a certain extent they are all unstable in the wrong environment. it may be that you need to change or add new strains of pro biotic to your system. it may be worth trying a different set to see if that gets you back on an even keel. try it and see as you have nothing to loose! keep me updated. BUT dont worry, if teh heat binned the bacteria, it wont do you any harm what so ever. it is virtually impossible to harm your self with over teh counter Probiotics.cheersIan


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## tempy (Mar 21, 2009)

Since my last post in this thread... I'm still on the same probiotic and I seem to have reached somewhat of a stable plateau.(As a side note, I'm always nervous about when to declare my given state as the result of a particular combination of probiotic / diet / supplements and to try something new or additional. If I switch things too quickly than I am ruining my attempt to observe each specific combination of inputs since I am mucking things up before the full effect kicked in. But how long to wait before saying "ok, now i know that X, Y, and Z do THIS for me")So I attribute my daily probiotic pill to greatly stabilising by BMs, they are not perfect but allow my life to go on in a much closer-to-normal fashion than before the probiotic. However, now I feel like I'm dealing with more gas and vague abdominal discomfort/aches than before. Perhaps this is new or perhaps this more subtle pleasure is simply now more noticeable with my more obvious symptoms subdued. So I don't want to try to go off the probiotic for another 2 weeks or so because I have a major trip coming up and don't want to risk things getting any worse, and also because I want to complete at least a full 30 days, though this number is arbitrary. I want to start taking another probiotic, but is it smart to just add another probiotic to what I'm currently on? Is the cure-IBS-with-probiotics basically a game of throwing more and more things at the wall until something sticks?Thanks for any comments as always.


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## IanRamsay (Nov 23, 2008)

curing any gut ailment with probiotics is a long process and dosent always work for everyone. it is perfectly safe to add another probiotic to your existing suppliment, but as always, give it a week or so and see how it goes. you may not get on with teh new probiotic and need to changfe it for another one etc. its all just best guess. but when you finally hit on teh right combination, you will know. you may want to try adding a suppliment of antioxidants as well, as there is some evedence of great results with them as well when mixed with probiotics. look up a chap called overitnow, here on teh boards, he knows his stuff about anti oxidants.cheersian


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## janetmtt (May 28, 2007)

IanYou say you can get a herx reaction from a probiotic - what sort of reaction would you get?I was taking a H & B acidophillis dairy free probiotic but I found that it made my C worse - does it take a while to "kick in" - I was also taking Yakult at the same time - I think Yakult has made my C worseIf you do suffer constipation what should I be looking for in a probiotic for the constipation problem - I guess that some probiotics are more suitable for C while others are better for DAny help would be greatly appreciated as I'm at my wits end and depressed as hell with this at the moment - I'm so bloated I look pregnant. Tried Activia yoghurt today, took no Yakult (although that was wonderful for the bloating but for me didn't move the bowels) and no probiotics but have a feeling that Activia isn't going to make me have a BM neither.


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## IanRamsay (Nov 23, 2008)

HiHerx reaction can be different in different people. basically it is either a worsening oif symptoms for a few days to a week or two, or it will be a mild to strong flue like thing. best thing to do is google it.they can take up to 3 or 4 weeks to start to work or before you notice any difference. look for a probiotic that has B Bifidus in it to start with, BUT NO PREBIOTIC as you already have gas and bloating. it may take a while to see any results and to find a probiotic that works for you. but generally if it is not working after a few weeks, change it for another one. here is some general guide lines for using probiotics and getting the best out of them.the following strains have teh most research behind them in IBS studies with good positive outcomes in studies.L. bulgaricus, L. reuteri, L. plantarum, L. casei, B. bifidus, S. salivarius, and S. thermophilus and the yeast Saccharomyces boulardii. THERE ARE MANY MANY OTHERS though!here is some general info on taking them, if you dont already know it!They are best taken in the morning on an empty stomach, 30 minutes before food. ideally they should be taken for at least 3 weeks as it may take that long to see any results. although some people have a very good reaction in days. after 2 to 3 months they should be stopped for a while. if after a few days you start to notice that you can feel a physical difference or a worsening of your symptoms, start taking them again. other wise, there is no need to continue taking them untill you feel that you do need them. there isnt any harm in taking them as a permanant suppliment if they are taken is small numbers like in actimel or activia yoghurt, but if you are taking 10 billion cultures a day, it is good to give the body a break every now and then.also If at all possible, replace the FOS prebiotic with natural fruit and veg if you can tollerate it. FOS can play hell with the tummy in some people while it dosent bother others.After you start to take the probiotics, you may feel initially worse for a day to a week or so. this is called the herx reaction and unfortunately is perfectly normal. (Google it to get more detailed info). some people are not affected by herx and some are.if it gets too much though, just stopp teh probiotics for a few days and re start them at a half dose for a two weeks, then a three quarter dose for two weeks and then the full dose, and see how you get on with that.CHeersIan


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## janetmtt (May 28, 2007)

IanRamsayThe info you've been providing on probiotics has been good - very useful also to note what you say about not taking a prebiotic if you suffer bloating and gas!I've been trying aloe vera juice from H & B - the first couple of days it really reduced the bloating but since then I've noticed that my stomach seems more bloated than ever - is this normal with AVJ and does it take a while to also kick in or is it just me and my system and should I quit because it's not normal and perhaps doesn't agree with me - third day I had horrendous stomach pains and gas. And for me it's certainly not making me run to the loo like everyone says it does. It's difficult for me at the moment as I've gone down with a sinus infection so had to start a course of antibiotics yesterday so my constipation is going to get even worse. Can I take a probiotic whilst on antibiotics or do you wait till the course is finished then start taking them?Dread to think what state my bowels will be in after taking these - was wanting to try taking triphala but will hold of now.


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