# achy joints and food ???



## meckle (Mar 5, 2003)

Ok so. I have posted alot on the general forum but this is my first post here.Basically I had IBS-D for years and through following a progam to restore gut flora no longer suffer from this and have normal BM's.However - I do have ongoing problems in my joints that seem to be related to foods - the main suspects being gluten and dairy, possibly alcohol. So now I am looking to solve these problems.When I eat these foods it is as if a cover tightens and compresses around some of my joints - I can't move so freely, feel tension in my soft tissues and it can ache quite badly sometimes. It particularly affects the joints in my neck/jaw.When I stop eating these foods its as if the jionts slowly unwind again. This results in losts of joint cracking. As I treated my digestive troubles I was off these foods and this unwinding process started in my thoracic spine (chest) and worked up into my neck. When I stop eating these foods the previously unwound joints unwind again easily, the ones that have not unwound at all yet are much harder. There is usually lots of joint cracking and sometimes acute pain - particularly in the TMJ.I also feel quite tired and lethargic after eating these foods. And get a little abominal bloating.The other thing is that my joints really ache after I ahve been out drinking (beer has gluten yes ?). This I tihnk is quite common - but in me it seems to fit with this pattern of unwinding I usually get.My questions areoes anyone else suffer problems like this ? I don't believe these are CFS or FM - but I was curious if this was familiar to anyone.Also - does anyone have any explanations for me here. So far as I know these joint issues aren't symptoms of gluten or dairy intolerance either, yet those foods seem to be playing a role ??


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## M&M (Jan 20, 2002)

Hi Meckle.I've moved a copy of your post to the Chronic Pain ForumOf course, anyone here is welcome to respond, but it sounds like we don't have a whole lot of information to offer you, as we deal with issues directly related to Fibro and CFIDS. Hopefully in the Chronic Pain forum someone will have some helpful information!


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## Arnie W (Oct 22, 2003)

I completely understand your problems and have actually mentioned the same reaction on other threads. Sometimes my muscles feel completely heavy and tight and my whole body feels weary and letheargic. My mood is also affected and I get what can best be described as a brain fog. I haven't worked out exactly what type of food causes the reaction. My food diaries have tended to study digestion rather than mood or lethargy.The low starch diet is reputedly very good for the symptoms you describe, so it would be worth considering your reactions to those types of food. Some bacteria thrive on starch.


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## meckle (Mar 5, 2003)

Well I was at my doctor today and hes has prescribed me a homeopathic remedy for phosphorus. I will try it and see how it goes.


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## meckle (Mar 5, 2003)

I was at my doctor today and he has prescribed a homeopathic remedy for phosphorous. I will try it and let you know how it goes !!


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## meckle (Mar 5, 2003)

The phosphorous doesn't seem to have done much so far for my joints. I am due to change remedy to a different concentration soon though. After my last visit my doctor also suggested I do a Kelmer test - this tests for mercury/heavy metal toxicity. Hopefully this will show something. I will update when I get the results.


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## sirigul (Aug 29, 2004)

Hello Meckle and all. I would also like to state that I have the same problems you are having. It seems when I eat dairy I get pain in my neck and lower back accompanied by this "brain fog". I tend to feel energetic and aware at work until I take my lunch. Lately I've just been eating fruit which doesn't seem to trigger these symptoms. Here is a question! I've always been sensitive to certain types of foods, but about 8 months ago I stopped taking an SSRI called Paxil and since then I have constipation, acid reflux, bloating, and just about everything else. I'm only 23 years old and Its making things a living hell for me. What do you guys eat that keeps these symptoms at a minimum?


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## M&M (Jan 20, 2002)

Has the Phosphorous helped? How are you feeling these days?


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## meckle (Mar 5, 2003)

Hey Sirigul,I don't really get digestive symptoms anymore. I followed a treatment program laid out by Dr John McKenna in his book Hard To Stomach. I became a patient of his about 2 years ago. The treatment was quite difficult and I was quite sick during it but it solved my IBS-D of twenty years. Digestively I can pretty much eat what I want.But if I eat dairy or gluten it affects my joints, energy levels and makes me kranky and I can't concentrate easily.As a general rule though for my continued and future health - I eat something like the following:1). No gluten or dairy - although I break this rule at once or twice a week without suffering - with the gluten I eat pasta sometimes. The diary sometimes chocolate - I have less tolerance of dairy than gluten so I am stricter with this.2.) I avoid refined sugar as much as possible. I do break this once or twice a week too.2). I avoid "artifical" foods. By this I mean anything that comes in a packet and is full of god knows what. As much as possible I stick to whole foods - I make my own meals from scratch. I break this rule with some things - like maybe pasta sauce. Basically when I'm lazy I break it. Things that come in packets are generally full of un-natural #### - refined sugar, salt, MSG, E numbers etc etc etc.3). I try to eat garlic at least every two or three days. Garlic is anti-fungal, anti-bacterial, anti-viral and good for your circulatory system. I should eat it more often but I don't want to stink of it too much - I work with people.4). Fluids - I stick to water, soya/rice milk, juices(various ones) and tea (green, peppermint, camomile, roobius, lemon, occasionally black - I try to vary it through the day). I don't drink milk at all, and never drink soda's alone - they are #### - but I use them as mixers in spirits. I drink beers, spirits with mixers(soda's usually), wine when I want.5). I rarely eat bread. It always has one of: gluten, dairy, sugar, salt. I have not easily found a bread without all four of these - so the easiet thing is not to eat it at all - if I get the taste I want more. Cutting bread out from my diet was the most diffcult thing to get used to. Again I break this rule when I feel like it - I have pastry (Danish usually...hmmmm) a couple of times a week. Yesterday I had a bread roll stuffed with fried egg, sausage, bacon, tomatoes for breakfast - hmmmmm.6). I try to have a good supply of healthy oils in my diet - olive oil, linseed oil - these I use almost every day - the rule I stick too most of all. I try have some nuts and seeds at least once a day too (maybe in a salad - or grinded up and put in porridge). Seeds can be difficult to digest - particularly if you have digestive difficulties - grinding them makes them easier to digest. I can eat them whole now - I couldn't previously - but I still tend to grind them anyway if I take them in porridge or muesli (I make up my own musli - as then I know whats in it !!)Well that's basically it. My God it sounds so healthy !! It may look like effort - but its not really. As you can see I feel free to break the rules whenever I want - they're more guidelins I ahve for myself than rules. When I started eating this way - which was a gradual process I developed after following Dr McKenna's program -I had to be stricter but as my health has improved I've been able to loosen up.So now to sort out the joints - a matter of time with the right nutritional treatment I suspect !!


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## meckle (Mar 5, 2003)

So after much waiting and going crazy with cracking joints I finally got the results of my Kelmer test over the phone today. The mercury levels in my body are 3000% above normal.I am going to talk to my doctor next week as regards what to do next and I have already made an appointment with a dentist to get the damn dental amalgam out of my mouth. And man I am angry at that f**kin quack that put them in - I'm pretty dam sure I didn't even need fillings.For anyone who wants more info on the Kelmer test it was done by a crowd in the UK called Biolab Medical Unit. They will only tests though if ordered by a doctor so you'll have to give your doc the info.Here is their websitewww.biolab.co.ukMeckle Mad


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## meckle (Mar 5, 2003)

Have been to the doctor. He has referred me to an holisitc dentist (!?) to get my fillings redone and referred me to another doctor who is trained in chelation therpay to get the mercury out of my system. He has also presribed me some supplements in the meantime to help with my symptoms.I'll update when I ahve more news !!


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## meckle (Mar 5, 2003)

Well I am going to get my fillings out next Tuesday. THen I will get an IV drip with vitamins. And then I will start on oral DMSA.I ahve been doing better on the supplements I ahve been taking.


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## Rosanna Thomas (Oct 13, 2004)

I agree a lot with Meckle's comments. I have recently eliminated coffee, caffeine, alcohol, egg yolks, whole wheat (I still eat sourdough and french bread and organic all purpose flour), also elimanting chocolate in whole form, and all dairy. If you can tolerate soy try to get as much of that in as possible. Try to have a 16oz bottle of water with you at all times. I have been reading recently on the effects of aluminum tooth fillings and the side effects they can cause in some people, so definately seek the attention of a good dentist that understands your situation. Hope this helps.


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## meckle (Mar 5, 2003)

Well in about 12 hours time I'm going to get my fillings replaced. I never ever ever thought I would be looking forward to such a thing. Then afterwards i will go see my doctor to get and IV vitamin drip and start on the DMSA (chelator). This is all in accordance with some treatment protocol or other.And not a moment too soon - my joints have been hurting even more the last few days - breaking out into tension headaches too.


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## meckle (Mar 5, 2003)

OK so I had one filling redone today. I was pretty nervous about it - I had a real bad experience getting them in. But it went fine and was painless so I'm not worried about the other too. He said he had to do them one at a time as my jaw doesn't open very wide - whats that about ??I then went to the doctor who will be giving me the chelation therapy for a vitamin drip. Apparently you get exposed to some mercury when getting the filling redone even when they use a rubber dam - so this vitamin drip is to make sure your body can mop it up.O and by the way - I had heard that these rubber dams were uncomfortable etc - I thought it was great - I was numb of course but it kept all the stuff out of my mouth - I hate feelign of grit in my mouth when the dentist works - makes me want to swallo all the time !!


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Contrary to popular belief I have a small mouth and it also does not open wide. i can get pain in the jaw joint after getting dental work done.Getting a lot of work done really can over-tax my jaw joint (they pulled all 4 wisdom teeth in one go with just novacaine and keeping open that wide that long was not that good for me, but it was better to get it all over at once. So I would tend to prefer smaller doses of work if it can be done that way. I often need breaks to rest the jaw joint during the proceedure.I've had some work done with a dam in and I prefer it. For me any discomfort of the dam is more than made up for by not getting the assorted stuff in my mouth.K.


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## meckle (Mar 5, 2003)

Ah - so thats why - well my jaw felt fine after. Well I'm hoping the next time he will do the remaining two together - its really awkward for me to come multiple trips. In fairness I was really nervous about getting these fillings replaced as I had such a nightmare experience getting them in - maybe that was contributing to my jaw not wanting to open!! But after the first one went smoothly now I am happy about it so maybe it will be easier next time !!The dam is deffo the way to go !


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## meckle (Mar 5, 2003)

I had my remaining two mercury fillings replaced on Friday. It was all very painless I must say. Interestingly, and much to my surprise I have noticed an effect in my body.The joint problems I have had - have affected the right and left side of my body differently. The left side was initially more painful and cracky when the whole thing started ab out two years ago. Over thime it loosened out and now feels quite free moving and painful. The right side by contrast - initally didn't give me trouble - but by now feels very restricted and painful compared to the left.The sensation I get when I walk is that the right side flows whereas the left side clunks along robot-like.The remaining two fillings I have gotten removed were on the right side (one large the other small). In the two days since getting them out - my right side feels as if some of the tension has been removed. It is not perfect and there is more cracking now (before it was too tight to crack) - but it feels freer in movement.Anyhow - I find this fascinating. This could actually be a real effect - or it could be placebo (which I doubt). But it is certainly an intersting feeling.On monday I will start the chelation therapy to get the mercury that is already in my body tissues out. It will be interesting to see what happens the joints then !!


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## Oak (May 31, 2004)

i get some of these symptons too, i sometimes just feel so tierd i can find myself sitting on the floor just thinking of nothing or my head feels all clouded and i don't feel like joining in conversations and stuff and i just feel like nothing


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## meckle (Mar 5, 2003)

Howdee folks.A little update on my mercury story.I went on a ten week treatment program using the chelating drug DMSA. Now - I do not like taking this drug - the side-effects are not fun. Strangley enough whilst on the drug it seem to exasperate may joint problems. Its also hard on the stomach and gives me some D syptoms - it also makes oyu pee alot - but i don't mind that.However once I am off the drug i generally feel alot better. The joint problems are still there but they are much less disabling - and there is less pain involved.Tomorrow I am repeating my mercury test with a DMSA challenge test (yuck). Hopefully this will show that mercury is at more normal levels now. Once the mercury is in line I am going to get tested for other heavy metals. I'll keep ye posted.


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## writefx (Jan 25, 2005)

At least you are getting yourself sorted one way or the other!I know someone with a similar problem with mercury however they ended up 3 months in hospital after reacting to the non-mercury fillings!! You just can't win somedays can you?Have you ever thought of yeast being a culprit? This is found in alcohol and also turns up in unexpected places. And for some people causes aching joints, tiredness, ibs, urinary problems etc.The doctor sent me for a gluten test and I thought they were doing a blood transfusion the amount of blood they needed. Anyway it was negative. But I can't eat brown bread so I think it could well be the yeast.Incidentally when I used to have food related migraines that included ibs, joint pains, exhaustion. The worst culprit was chocolate and red wine.I hope that you find a solution soon and can return to good health.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:Have you ever thought of yeast being a culprit? This is found in alcohol and also turns up in unexpected places. And for some people causes aching joints, tiredness, ibs, urinary problems etc.


Or not.


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## meckle (Mar 5, 2003)

###writefxyes I had been treated for yeast overgrowth for the year and a half previous to discovering the mercury problem. I had a VERY hard time treating the yeast problem. I suspect because the real culprit was the mercury. Anyhow - I no longer have a yeast problem per se - it does flair up occasionally if I am real sloppy (i.e. drinking like a surgeon with a mid-life crisis and eating sugary stuff by the bucket load) - but I know the sypmtoms by now and can bring it under control with in a few days.The DMSA is pretty harsh on the stomach though.


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