# Pulsating feeling in stomach! Help



## 19728 (Feb 9, 2006)

Hello, I went to the Doc yesterday and he said they was waiting on the results from my catscan that I had done without any dye, I just had to drink some nasty milk stuff, and he said that they are ordering me to have another catscan done with the dye. He then had me lay back and was feeling of my stomach and he stopped and got a weird look on his face, he then said he could feel my aorata pulsing and he left and came back and said he talked with his staff and they said that it was normal to feel that. I'm 20 yrs old about 5 ft 11 inches tall and about 160lbs. He said after the catscan with the dye we would be able to tell if everything with that was alright but I probably wont be able to get into there to have that done for at least another month. He was a really young Doc, Im going to a charity clinic and see different Doc's everytime. I'm going to have an ultrasound of my stomach done in two days but I'm not even sure if he knew about that. Now when I lay flat on my back and I can put the remote on my stomach and it will go up and down from the pulsing in my stomach, and It can easily be felt. I'm still having stomach pain, and sometimes back pain with it, and for the past two days I haven't had an appetite at all. I have to force my self to eat a can of soup and Im usually hungry ALL the time. I dont know what to do! Someone please help me out to tell me what you think is going on. I'm going to post more info of my symptoms and everything right under this. Thank you soooo much. God Bless


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## 19728 (Feb 9, 2006)

Iâ€™m a 20 yr old male. About 10 months ago, when I was lost and didnâ€™t know the Lord Jesus Christ, I was with a friend and he convinced me to smoke some marijuana with him. I took a few hits, and I had smoked it before and it didnâ€™t do anything, but this time I started to worry about things and panic and I could feel my heart beating really fast so I drove to the hospital and the more I worried about it the faster it went. When I got in the hospital it was 165 bpm, they injected cardizem in me through an iv and it made it go up more so they injected something else to try and bring it down but it just eventually came down on its own, after about an hour. I went home that night, and then at work I started having some frequent chest pain in my upper left chest, and it would come with shortness of breath. About a month later I started having severe stomach pains in the center of my stomach, and Iâ€™m currently still having that, the doctor did a stomach x-ray, blood work, and gall bladder ultra sound but still found nothing, I constantly belch a lot, have stomach cramps where it feels like gas is stuck in my stomach, and it makes gurgling noises all the time. I also often notice some white mucous when I have a bowel movement. Iâ€™m currently taking prilosec but its not working that well. My chest pain has recently started to come back, and I notice that with little excersation my heart will start to beat fast and I start having chest pain. It doesnâ€™t take much to bring my heart rate up, just walking up one flight of stairs and Iâ€™ll be out of breath and my heart will be going fast and pounding. Most of the time itâ€™s a dull constant pain in the left upper part of my chest and sometimes it will be a quick, sharp, stabbing pain that last only a few seconds. Sometimes when I feel my pulse in my neck it will seem like its skipping a beat or having a beat directly after another beat, like rapid, I guess that is called palpilations.I had an ekg, and a chest x-ray and they said everything looks good on that. Iâ€™m always worried about it and the pain is an everyday thing. Itâ€™s hard to go to work with it because the pain is always there. I donâ€™t know what to do. I also have facial flushing a lot, my face will get real red and hot, and my ears also, it will look as if I have been outside all day in the sun with glasses on because around my eyes will be white, but my neck and face and ears will be red and feel really hot. I noticed carcinoid syndrome has some of these symptoms and Iâ€™m scared that it could be that but I donâ€™t know. I know God will give me my healing. Iâ€™m just curious to if you have any suggestions. Thank you very much and may God bless. I just had a holter monitor, and a stress test done, waiting on the results. Donâ€™t think anything is wrong with my heart though. I used to drink heavily, and when I started having the stomach problems I havenâ€™t drank since then and since then Iâ€™ve lost 20 lbs, not intentionally, I donâ€™t know if it had to do with drinking or the stomach problems. I donâ€™t drink at all anymore because Iâ€™m a changed person and saved by the blood of Jesus and delivered and when I did drink with it, it seemed like it would hurt it more. I constantly belch all the time, and it seems like it hurts me on my right side more than any where else, Iâ€™ve had an 24 hr urine for 5-hiaa to see if it was carcinoid syndrome but my Doc said the tests came back good. I also had echocardiogram,stress test,and holter monitor on my heart, they came back FINE! Thank Jesus!! I think Iâ€™ve noticed my skin getting a little bit lighter like a yellowish tint, but my girlfriend said that Iâ€™m just freaking my self out and itâ€™s the same color its always been, but I beg to differ. Two days ago I ate and about 5 mins after I got done I had to use the bathroom, my stomach started hurting me REALLY bad and I noticed my stool was a real light color, clay, pale looking. My stomach hurt me for about 30 mins after and finally went away. Iâ€™ve had normal color stools since then, but when I use the bathroom is only small amounts of stool, all broken up and not formed together. I donâ€™t know what to do anymore, Iâ€™m always in pain from whatever is causing this and I cant have a normal life. Someone PLEASE help


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## 13540 (Aug 18, 2005)

that is normal for your stomach to do that mine has been doing that for many years people who are more on the skinny side can see a fill it more than people that are much larger


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## 23392 (Jan 31, 2006)

As far as I know, the abdominal pulse is *quite* common in slender people. I have always had a heckuva one, long before IBS. Given all the normal tests, you can probably relax on that count!A lot of the symptoms you are describing are similar to ones I have with anxiety/panic attacks: flushing, heart beating apparently harder or faster [when I've taken it it's not really that fast, it just feels that way!] on mild exertion [like stairs--sometimes this will happen with me and sometimes not]. The first hospital visit you had sounded like a full-blown panic attack, where the heart really is faster. Chest pain, shortness of breath and flushing can all be symptoms.It's possible to become 'sympathetically overactivated' from all the worry--or, to put it simply, the anxiety generates more anxiety. A lot of people on this list have stomach pain. One thing you might want to be checked for is acid reflux. And the light stool, they've done a check of your gallbladder, you say. HIDAscan or something else? [I read kinda fast]Yellowish stools are simply a sign of fast transit. Small pieces of stool are also quite common. Normal excretion of bile naturally turns stools yellow, then greenish, then brown, depending on how fast they move through your colon.You might want to do some searches on this site for acid reflux, panic attacks, and anxiety. You might benefit from breathing techniques or anxiety meds if it is that. There are so many mysterious-seeming symptoms with this, and so many of them seem to come from 'out of the blue,' it's normal and natural for people to respond with worry. But it can really help to find that others share the same problems, and/or from medical tests [necessary] or reading [helpful] that it's not anythign worse than the nasty IBS. Might try a search on pain, too.Good luck to you--you are understood here.


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## 14013 (Nov 12, 2005)

nice one, i have that pulse thing too, youve made me feel batter now youve said its common in slender people, lol ive been feeling podgy its funny to watch i think, its not caused me any problems though, i thought everyone had it to be honest


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote: Pulsating feeling in stomach!


The description above is long and detailed, but I seemed to have missed what it had to with the statement above. Seeing a "pulse" isn't the same as feeling one. Feeling one is *not* normal.


> quote:Yellowish stools are simply a sign of fast transit


Yellowish stools may mean that the bile has not been processed by bacteria, but it tells *nothing* about transit in the gut.


> quote:There are so many mysterious-seeming symptoms with this


With what? IBS certainly doesn't have any.


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## 23392 (Jan 31, 2006)

> quote:quote:Seeing a "pulse" isn't the same as feeling one. Feeling one is not normal.quote:Yellowish stools are simply a sign of fast transit Yellowish stools may mean that the bile has not been processed by bacteria, but it tells nothing about transit in the gut.quote:There are so many mysterious-seeming symptoms with this With what? IBS certainly doesn't have any.


1. Feeling a pulse is not normal, but there are several conditions in which a person becomes hypersensitized and hyperaware of their pulse. If you don't believe me, ask any number of doctors. [I went through med school but did not take boards.]And, let's define "feeling." Is that, feeling internally, without pressing a hand on the area? If so that relates to the above.What I believe the original poster was describing was the doctor pressing down on that area. In that case, feeling a pulse there would be quite normal. So I fail to see your point on this one. 2. You're quite right. Yellow is lack of processing. That can be *because* of fast transit, or for any other reason. Thanks for the correction.3. Teh last one was a joke, right?  Panic attacks *are* common in conjunction with IBS. Those can be strange, mysterious, frightening, feel like heart attacks. Gut pain and referred gut pain can be mysterious and frightening, especially if it's a kind you've never had before. Dizziness *can* be a part of IBS, for a variety of reasons. No, these things aren't Rome Criteria; are they frequently associated? The answer to that would be yes. And distention is definitely part of IBS in many cases. That can be upsetting too. It can even be bad enough to prevent getting a full breath.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:but there are several conditions in which a person becomes hypersensitized and hyperaware of their pulse. ]


Name one.


> quote:And, let's define "feeling." Is that, feeling internally, without pressing a hand on the area?


Yes.


> quote:3. Panic attacks *are* common in conjunction with IBS. Those can be strange, mysterious, frightening, feel like heart attacks. Gut pain and referred gut pain can be mysterious


That's mysterious? Mysterious would be something that's inconsistent with normal human experience, like blue diarrhea, seeing your intestines gyrate on the surface of your abdomen, or pain that darts around your abdomen like the hours of a clock according to the time of day. (I just made that up.)


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## 23392 (Jan 31, 2006)

We have a different definition of 'mysterious.' Perhaps I should elaborate. A feeling that has never happened to you before, in your experience; that isn't the way your body usually responds; that raises concerns for those reasons. "mysterious" may not have been a good choice of words on my part. But for the things *you* describe, I'd choose "outlandish,"  not 'mysterious.' On question #1: I'm going to reply like you do. Go ask a psychiatrist, psychologist, or M.D., since if I answer you, we will probably just keep going round and round. I'm not going to take the bait. "Go look it up," as they always said to us on rounds. I appreciate your helpfulness sincerely, sometimes, Flux, but you would be even more helpful if you weren't so terse and didn't just give the negative but the positive and some explanations instead of statements. Sometimes you do, but mostly it isn't your style. Be that as it may, I still appreciate some things you have posted.


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## phillipm2 (Sep 24, 2004)

cookienkikin,I have had those experiences too that you detailed in your explanation. Marijuana sets off extreme worries in the brain and causes one to feel overwhelmed with anxiety or paranoia. Yes I have tried it, and all it did was open my mind to what anxiety can really do. Some people handle it quite well, and some like us cant and thats why its illegal in the U.S.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:but there are several conditions in which a person becomes hypersensitized and hyperaware of their pulse. ]


Actually, there are no such conditions because it is physically impossible to sense these things. The pulse has no net output that could be directly sensed by the senses adjacent to the pulse, so making them hypersensitive wouldn't make any difference.


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## 15026 (Apr 4, 2006)

What rot! Of course you can be aware of your own pulse. Anyone who has been tense enough, anxious enough or stressed enough, however you want to describe it, with or without the added extra of high blood pressure, can certainly vouch to feeling a throbbing in the temples, or even the throat, and I daresay the abdomen is not out of the question too; that this throbbing corresponds to the pulse is easily ascertained by feeling with the paired fingers of one hand.At least, this is so for those of us that have a pulse.....


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:Anyone who has been tense enough, anxious enough or stressed enough, however you want to describe it, with or without the added extra of high blood pressure, can certainly vouch to feeling a throbbing in the temples, or even the throat,


That's not occuring without some massive increase in cardiac output. Once the output exceeds a certain threshold, the tissues have exceed their ability to being stretched and they run up against resistance. That will induce vibrations in the tissues that can be sensed by a normal nervous system. But that level of cardiac output isn't normal.


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## 23392 (Jan 31, 2006)

> quote:quote:Anyone who has been tense enough, anxious enough or stressed enough, however you want to describe it, with or without the added extra of high blood pressure, can certainly vouch to feeling a throbbing in the temples, or even the throat, That's not occuring without some massive increase in cardiac output. Once the output exceeds a certain threshold, the tissues have exceed their ability to being stretched and they run up against resistance. That will induce vibrations in the tissues that can be sensed by a normal nervous system. But that level of cardiac output isn't normal.


Bunk again. I got this commonly when trying to go to sleep. It was what I call 'diesel heart' and I could defnitely feel the pulse, in different places [usually head/neck/just below ribs or behind sternum]. Yet the pulse actually was 60 or under [the sensation of feeling it *directly corresponded to my pulse when I took it; sometimes I could even accurately count it that way] and my blood pressure runs about 110/70 MAX, and often as low as 90/49. And yes, just because it was weird I did check it; I am professionally trained to do so and also have a cuff. Queer little experience.I am far, far from the only person who gets this. In clinics we saw scads of people who got this, on many different services. [Yes, this was in med school on rotations]Lots of other people *do* get this too. So, to respond in *your* typical pattern,  "nonsense". Period. [With no further evidence of why I say it. Good job you were never a med student; then if you say something you better darn well have backup instead of *just* negating!]Note: I am not a doctor either. I did not take boards, but went into medical artificial intelligence and then medical research/writing.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:Bunk again.


This bunk has a name: palpitations.


> quote:I got this commonly when trying to go to sleep. It was what I call 'diesel heart' and I could defnitely feel the pulse, in different places [usually head/neck/just below ribs or behind sternum]. Yet the pulse actually was 60 or under [the sensation of feeling it *directly corresponded to my pulse when I took it; sometimes I could even accurately count it that way] and my blood pressure runs about 110/70 MAX, and often as low as 90/49.


Let's assume for the moment your report is accurate, at least for a one time event. Pulse rate is just a frequency, so whether it's 10 or 100 won't make a difference.Just a blood pressure reading taken anywhere won't help because the effect is almost certainly very localized. You'd have to probably rig a special blood pressure gauge or measure it by some other means to get it that the very spot.If you hit the spot, I can only guess as to what you get. The difference between systolic and diastolic would be very small, nearly the same numbers. That is to say, blood flow is nearly completely blocked so when it is pumped during systole it slams through the occulsion and that is what you are feeling. The only situation where this occurs naturally is called a bruit. Now what you are saying is that you are experiencing bruits all over the place. I suppose that is possible at least for a very short periods of time; otherwise, you'd start experiencing ischemia and fainting if it were your in your carotids.


> quote:I am far, far from the only person who gets this. In clinics we saw scads of people who got this, on many different services. [Yes, this was in med school on rotations]


What I got to wonder about is how you'd know this is occuring in all these people? There are only 914 articles with term bruit in the worldwide literature in the last thirty-five years or so. Perhaps it goes under another name.


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## 15026 (Apr 4, 2006)

Based on flux's interpretation, every nurse & doctor, throughout the whole history of mankind, who has ever taken a pulse with paired fingers on the wrist, has been lying.Now this is a difficult one, folks. Think carefully. Do you believe:a) every doctor & nurse throughout the history of mankind;or,







flux.Shall we take a vote?


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:, who has ever taken a pulse with paired fingers on the wrist.


You don't need two fingers; one will do.


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## 15026 (Apr 4, 2006)

> quote:Originally posted by flux:You don't need two fingers; one will do.


...and the capital of Australia is Canberra. Meanwhile, your point is ?


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## 23392 (Jan 31, 2006)

> quote:This bunk has a name: palpitations.


You just answered your own question of "name one." Yes, many doctors use "palpitations" not only to refer to a fast or irregular heartbeat, but also to refer to a conscious awareness of the heartbeat. So, you just either contradicted or answered your own challenge, "name one condition where it's possible to [internally] feel the pulse."Thanks. In medical school they taught us to look for horses, not zebras. It would seem you have a real interest in the outlandish. Concocting the following:


> quote:Just a blood pressure reading taken anywhere won't help because the effect is almost certainly very localized. You'd have to probably rig a special blood pressure gauge or measure it by some other means to get it that the very spot.If you hit the spot, I can only guess as to what you get. The difference between systolic and diastolic would be very small, nearly the same numbers. That is to say, blood flow is nearly completely blocked so when it is pumped during systole it slams through the occulsion and that is what you are feeling. The only situation where this occurs naturally is called a bruit. Now what you are saying is that you are experiencing bruits all over the place. I suppose that is possible at least for a very short periods of time; otherwise, you'd start experiencing ischemia and fainting if it were your in your carotids.


It's absolutely not necessary to check blood pressure in any specific spot or by any specific means. I was responding to your allegation that feeling the pulse could *only* occur if there were significant cardiac output/volume/whatever [probably we, and you especially, should have a look at your own back posts!]. In other words, times of high adrenalin, for instance, like narrowly avoiding a car wreck, are definitely *not* the only times one can be aware of one's pulse. That was the refutal.All this nonsense about bruits is outlandish. And unnecessary. As above, you answered your own question: awareness of the sensation of a pulse *commonly* occurs with 'palpitations.' >What I got to wonder about is how you'd know this is occuring in all these people? There are only 914 articles with term bruit in the worldwide literature in the last thirty-five years or so. Perhaps it goes under another name.[/quote]Yeah, that name is palpitations, loosely applied. This bruit stuff is a straw man argument. The reason we knew is that patients would report it, sometimes on rounds, sometimes in office visits, and it could be confirmed that what they were feeling sensory-wise without checking the pulse with however many fingers corresponded to the pulse that anyone--they, the nurses, we--could check with our finger. So it does exist, and it can exist without huge cardiac output, and it is loosely called palpitations. End of matter.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:You just answered your own question of "name one."Yes, many doctors use "palpitations" not only to refer to a fast or irregular heartbeat, but also to refer to a conscious awareness of the heartbeat.


You indicated there were conditions where a person could become hypersensitive to their own heartbeat. But palpitations is not that. It's the heartbeat that is somehow changing character for a person to become aware of it.


> quote:it can exist without huge cardiac output, and it is loosely called palpitations


I'm not sure it can exist without that. There has to be some physical change for it to be detected.


> quote:I was responding to your allegation that feeling the pulse could *only* occur if there were significant cardiac output/volume/whatever


You are right about that. I left out bruits.


> quote:This bruit stuff is a straw man argument.


That it certainly is not. What you described to us sounded like bruits to me and what I described about how it works is also accurate.


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## 23392 (Jan 31, 2006)

> quote:You indicated there were conditions where a person could become hypersensitive to their own heartbeat. But palpitations is not that. It's the heartbeat that is somehow changing character for a person to become aware of it.


No, it isn't necessarily doing that--other than in the cases of skipped beats or really rapid beats. Or the adrenalin situations I described.Just like telling someone to think of anything but wrapped packages, or to not scratch their nose for any reason, a certain percentage of the population will return again and again to exactly those things. If someone notices their heartbeat once--and it can sometimes be heard in the ears, in a normal, relaxed position with nothing wrong and no alteration in heartbeat--some people may become concerned and keep reinforcing that pathway by *wondering* about it and *trying* to check on it.Did you ever study anatomy, Flux? In Med School they taught us, "VAN--vein, artery, nerve. They run together many times, always be aware of this." It was a rule of thumb to keep us alert and prevent injury in surgery, for instance. quote:I'm not sure it can exist without that.[/quote]Fine, you're not sure. Thanks for being clear in your language and taking ownership.I *am* sure that it can sometimes exist without that. So are several of the docs I work with. I actually mentioned this discussion today to one who's a psychiatrist, who said that there does *not* have to be any change in heartbeat; all that has to happen is that the patient become concerned about it. I also work with one of the best cardiac surgeons in the tri-state area. I've published several papers with him. I can always email him if you really need to get another source...but we already have one real M.D. who's weighed in on it, formally, plus my experience in Clinics.I also work with athletes--doing some training--and let me tell you, they can be real conscious of their resting pulses. It's kind of a point of honor/competition.  And there's nothign wrong with them. Note these are *resting,* not exercising pulses.


> quote: There has to be some physical change for it to be detected.


Sometimes all it takes is a resting state and not having your mind elsewhere. Or becoming concerned about that in general. 2 ends of the spectrum.quote:quote:This bruit stuff is a straw man argument. That it certainly is not. What you described to us sounded like bruits to me and what I described about how it works is also accurate.[/quote]What you described is *one* way, and one only, of getting a bruit, for one thing. You're working hard here, and you do have some understanding, but there's a lot missing.


> quote:If you hit the spot, I can only guess as to what you get. The difference between systolic and diastolic would be very small, nearly the same numbers.


Not necessarily true at all.


> quote: That is to say, blood flow is nearly completely blocked


 Not even true of all bruits!! In fact, the extreme case!


> quote: so when it is pumped during systole it slams through the occulsion and that is what you are feeling. The only situation where this occurs naturally is called a bruit.


Nope, you can also [on the flip side] have a bad occlusion and *not* have a bruit there--or not one that's easily detectable. "Bruit" generally refers to what the cardiologist can *hear* in exam. With occluded coronary arteries, for instance, you don't even check to see if there's a bruit, or not, because the test you use--an angiogram--makes it a moot point. You couldn't hear the coronaries anyway, and you don't need to--the angiogram is indicative.


> quote:Now what you are saying is that you are experiencing bruits all over the place.


Most certainly not. In the patients we dealt with who had palpitations/awareness of pulse [and those my psychiatrist friend--note that is an M.D., as opposed to psychologist--deals with], a few with risk factors for potential heart problems were checked out. But with many, if they had indicators of heart health, it wasn't even a concern. M.D.s would not and could not leave that hanging if they suspected--or heard--bruits. A simple physical exam can determine they aren't there; simple tests can determine they're unlikely to be.A lot of the time, in healthy people, no one ever even *thought* about going through loads of testing--because they knew, *from their medical education,* that it was *just* palpitations or awareness of pulse or a normal phenomenon like occasionally hearing the pulse in the ears.And I might also point out that those with healthy, elastic arteries [rather than stiff, occluded arteries] are sometimes *more* likely to be able to feel their pulse! Just because of the anatomy/physiology of that!


> quote: I suppose that is possible at least for a very short periods of time; otherwise, you'd start experiencing ischemia and fainting if it were your in your carotids.


Bingo! and here you are right. So let's skip the patients I remember, and just look at the case of me. By my blood pressures I clearly have no occlusion. Eye exam [which can be very telling] shows no notching and, according to my ophthalmologist [note this is also an M.D., as opposed to an optometrist], arteries as flexible as a kid's. My cholesterol is remarkably low and so are my LDL's, and my HDLs are high; in fact my doctor questioned whether I was eating *enough* fat! I have literally *zero* C-reactive protein levels, no elevated homocysteine, and, here's the death knell to your theory, I even had a head/neck MRI [because of odd symptoms that mimicked meningitis or perhaps something equally bad]. It showed my arteries as all clear. I had also volunteered for a study--because I needed $--that involved doing ultrasounds of the chest. Again, all clear--the only finding was extra thick muscle on the chest wall. So no, I wasn't having bruits. Physically impossible. You're doing a good job understanding *some* of the cause/effect in certain situations, but what you lack is the big picture. "Horses, not zebras" was another common saying from Attendings to students, and you haven't the background to know/have seen all the horses. In other words, the whole bruit thing is, I'm afraid, best described with another adjective: farfetched.I do respect that you are capable of putting some things together and understanding how they could work well. And I TRULY appreciate your wording of "not thinking so" or whatever the parallel is. But you're just trying too hard! Take a rest! Trust the psychiatrist! Besides which, this is all moot anyway, since the original poster described *someone else* feeling the aortic pulse in the stomach--which the other doctors verified as quite common--and *seeing* the TV remote bob up and down, which I was actually shown as a normal case of in med school *by my anatomy professor,* and which is *seeing,* not feeling! I can see the radial pulse in the web of one thumb--used to watch it in elementary school when I was bored.  Seeing, or having other people feel, was the original question anyway!G'night.


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## 23392 (Jan 31, 2006)

By the way...I think the use of the term 'bruit' is misunderstood here, now I think about it."Bruit" is from the French, and means *NOISE.* By definition, as M.D.s use it, it is something the cardiologist or other M.D. *hears* on physical exam! And it usually occurs with a *normal* pulse--in fact, that is one of the ways of diagnosing that something's wrong [or just different] in there--it occurs with a *normal* pulse.It *sounds* different from the normal pulse. It does not indicate anything about a change in volume, stroke strength, anything else, necessarily. It is a way of describing the *sound.* So, when I mention hearing the pulse in the ears as a normal phenomenon that some people have [some of the time, on a certain pillow, in a certain position, yadda yadda], that is a pulse that *sounds normal.* *Not* a bruit!


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote: If someone notices their heartbeat once--and it can sometimes be heard in the ears, in a normal, relaxed position with nothing wrong and no alteration in heartbeat


My first thought is to wonder we don't all hear our pulses all the time. And my first guess is that it is related to anatomy. That is only people with the "right" anatomy could hear it.


> quote:I also work with athletes--doing some training--and let me tell you, they can be real conscious of their resting pulses. It's kind of a point of honor/competition.  And there's nothign wrong with them. Note these are *resting,* not exercising


How are they conscious of it? Do they hear it or feel it? And if they feel it, where are they feeling it?


> quote:Not necessarily true at all.


What other explanation is there? See below...


> quote:Nope, you can also [on the flip side] have a bad occlusion and *not* have a bruit there--or not one that's easily detectable. "Bruit" generally refers to what the cardiologist can *hear* in exam..


That sounds true. I'm running on the idea that bruits are being generated by the same mechanism that generates the Korotkoff sounds. That sort of implies we should be hearing (and feeling) a lot of banging as the blood struggles to force its way through the occlusion, but that is obviously not the case; otherwise, coronary artery disease would the easiest disease of all to diagnose.


> quote:It *sounds* different from the normal pulse. It does not indicate anything about a change in volume, stroke strength, anything else, necessarily. It is a way of describing the *sound.*


There has to be some mechanism generating that sound.


> quote:And I might also point out that those with healthy, elastic arteries [rather than stiff, occluded arteries] are sometimes *more* likely to be able to feel their pulse! Just because of the anatomy/physiology of that!


We're probably at the point we're need some doppler ultrasonography to really study what's going on. Or perhaps you could find a patient with Buerger's disease and see whether or not there are no Korotkoff sounds on taking the blood pressure.









> quote:here's the death knell to your theory,


Annother explanation to support the notion of bruits is that since the arteries are muscular and they can...gasp...spasm, which seems that it would create a momentary Korotkoff-blood pressure effect. I believe that does happen in normal physiology from time to time for no apparent reason.


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## 23392 (Jan 31, 2006)

Whether you get sound detectable on exam or not--occlusion, murmur, what-have-you--depends on flow dynamics. Which depend on a number of things.Think of streams. Some places 'gurgle,' some don't. It's a whole other topic. As for the ears, think of echo dynamics. The surface you're bouncing *off* of has to be just right, the angle has to be right. Position of head on pillow, type of pillow, hair in the way, possiby ear wax in the way...  Think of all the design that goes into acoustics! Some people never hear it, others hear it with varying frequency.


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## 19728 (Feb 9, 2006)

So what is it that you people think I could have? What tests do I need?


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## 23392 (Jan 31, 2006)

You should ask your doc, not me [I did not take boards so, in my home state, I am not licensed--and would be way out of regular practice even if I were!], but I think your tummy pulse is quite normal in a slender person--and this is also what your doctor said!


> quote: he then said he could feel my aorata pulsing and he left and came back and said he talked with his staff and they said that it was normal to feel that.





> quote: Now when I lay flat on my back and I can put the remote on my stomach and it will go up and down from the pulsing in my stomach, and It can easily be felt. I'm still having stomach pain, and sometimes back pain with it, and for the past two days I haven't had an appetite at all. I have to force my self to eat a can of soup and Im usually hungry ALL the time.


I'd be asking more questions about the stomach pain, back pain and change in appetite if I were in your shoes, and--especially given the holter monitor and everything else--not worry so much about heart. They will check you out thoroughly on this--they can't afford not to--and so on the heart thing you can trust them.Many people have extra heartbeats--Premature Ventricular Contractions--and are fine. I know one who is a marathon runner, whose blood lipid levels are fantastic and who they couldn't get the treadmill high enough and fast enough to stress on the cardiac stress test! He throws the occasional PVC, sometimes even every 8th beat, but it is not a serious problem or going to cause one, in his case. It's ventricular *fibrillation*--when the main pump chambers of the heart stop being *able* to beat because they are instead quivering so fast--that gets people. Also normal people throw premature Atrial contractions all the time when under stress. Atrial *fibrillation*--quivering of the smaller, upper chambers of the heart--won't even get you right away, unless it goes on to the extent you form a blood clot there that can break loose. We had a case of a patient with a massive clot of that kind, which was removed and she's doing just fine. Cardizem/Diltiazem, in another paper we just had accepted, not only discourages atrial fib but reduces clots [new effect!]. So even if you *have* certain abnormalities, they're not a worry unless your doc tells you they are.It does also sound as if you are having panic/anxiety attacks. So you might ask about treatments for those, from counseling/CBT to drugs. And any deficiencies or overdoses [like B-vitamin] that can cause them. They can be associated with IBS alone.


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