# Antibiotics as a baby - cause of IBS-D?



## mellosphere (Sep 22, 2015)

Just wanted to see if anyone else had similar stories...

I was filling out the information requested from Taymount Clinic in the Bahamas because I am very serious about trying to go there for FMT. One of the questions was about my antibiotic usage throughout life. I asked my mom and she estimated that I used antibiotics daily for about 4 months at age 1 and maybe up to 6 months at age 2 due to constant ear infections.

I am hypothesizing this was the first step down the road of IBS-D for me. I have had cramps and diarrhea as long as I can remember.


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## Akn1965 (Jan 13, 2017)

Mellosphere,
I don't think taking antibiotics in the early age is a cause of ibs-d.I see in my environment my friends and others have been using antibiotics from their baby age to till now for their various infections.
After reading your above post I asked my Gp about the matter he denied and said it is not the cause.


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## dekkalife (Aug 21, 2015)

Mellosphere, just a side note. Taymount at the Bahama's clinic is significantly more expensive than their UK clinic for the same procedure. Bahama's will cost you $10,000 not including travel and accommodation, and have a longer wait list. UK location will cost a little over $5,000 and their wait list is around a month. I'm having my consultation tomorrow.


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## mellosphere (Sep 22, 2015)

Oh really? I did not know that. I will have to look into it. Do they do a similar 10 day routine? Please let us know what you find out for the consultation! I am having a consult with Newbery in Argentina next Monday. I will have to look into Taymount again because that may be a similar cost as to Newbery but it seems that Taymount has a lot more experience and research on FMT's.


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## mellosphere (Sep 22, 2015)

Akn1965 said:


> Mellosphere,
> I don't think taking antibiotics in the early age is a cause of ibs-d.I see in my environment my friends and others have been using antibiotics from their baby age to till now for their various infections.
> After reading your above post I asked my Gp about the matter he denied and said it is not the cause.


I see what you are saying, but don't many people attest to getting IBS after antibiotics? It is true that many people take antibiotics for years and still don't have IBS. However, in my case, I really think there has to be something that started my IBS-d and none of my family members have anything similar. I think it's definitely possible.

Or, maybe, I'm just hoping that it's related because that gives me a little more hope that an FMT may help me...I still get hopeful when I consider these treatments. Life can be tough with IBS.


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## ♧Pandora☆ (Jun 23, 2017)

http://taymount.com/patients/fees-and-programmes


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## Lorelei56 (Apr 7, 2014)

It seems so in my case. I was always sick with something respiratory when I was young, treated with antibiotics, and always had tummy trouble. I could eat more than 3 foods in 2013 when I came down with many cases of pneumonia and bronchitis, which were treated with Cipro. My gut health did a nosedive after that. I have IBS-D, UC, and so many food sensitivities that I can eat only chicken, some beef, and some rice. That's it. I'm getting worse and losing weight and hair. I have a colonoscopy scheduled for the end of September. It's to the point now where I wish they'd just take the colon out..

But I do believe antibiotics were at least part of the cause of my spiraling health.


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## Desert Fox (Jul 24, 2017)

Well, I think that infant intake of antibiotics is very unlikely to be a cause of grown-up IBS-D (though mine was caused by Post-Infectious). I'd rather believe that young trauma or prolonged teenage stress that can trigger subtle genetic mutations in your nerves are the more likely causes for IBS-D. You may read the book "Childhood Disrupted" for more details by Donna Jackson Nakazawa in which IBS-D is one of the researched and discussed matters.


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## Desert Fox (Jul 24, 2017)

mellosphere said:


> I see what you are saying, but don't many people attest to getting IBS after antibiotics? It is true that many people take antibiotics for years and still don't have IBS. However, in my case, I really think there has to be something that started my IBS-d and none of my family members have anything similar. I think it's definitely possible.
> 
> Or, maybe, I'm just hoping that it's related because that gives me a little more hope that an FMT may help me...I still get hopeful when I consider these treatments. Life can be tough with IBS.


Me. The antibiotics I took that I have highly suspected of triggering my persistent D were for treating a bad bout of food-poisoning.


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## mellosphere (Sep 22, 2015)

That's what i'm saying though, because it's not just adult IBS. I've had these symptoms to varying degrees for as long as i can remember. And i have a hunch that those antibiotics set it down the wrong path and i never really recovered.

Anyway it's all speculation and there are probably lots more reasons that haven't even been discovered! I'm just trying to make sense of what has happened to me but more importantly what can be done to improve my symptoms. I'm hoping the bacteria can give me some help.


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## dekkalife (Aug 21, 2015)

Taymount appears to be both more experienced and more expensive than Newbery. Taymount will cost you about $5,200 for 10 session, and Newbery will cost $3,500 for the same. The consultation for Taymount was about 20 minutes, where I believe Newbery's is about 50.

They ask about your medical history including tests and diagnoses you've had, then explain the procedure and whether they think it will be a good fit for you. They said that it seems to work better for people who experience a lot of food intolerances and have taken antibiotics frequently, which to me sounded like it works better for IBS over IBD.

Apparently about a third of patients experience improvement within the first few weeks, another third within the new few months, and the final third in the next year or not at all. You can purchase additional transplants to take home with you for $200 each which must not be left unrefrigerated for longer than 48 hours. It was suggested that you may need to perform transplants periodically for the indefinite future, so like a maintenance dose.

You have three options to prepare for your treatment. You can take a stool softener for about a month prior to the treatment, then a colonic irrigation in your home town before you arrive. You can have a colonic irrigation in your home town before you arrive, and then do a colon cleanse the day before treatment (the same as the cleanse for a colonoscopy). Lastly, you can have 3 consecutive colonic irritations at Taymount before your treatment. That last option will cost an extra $800, requires you to arrive 3 days early and will extend your waiting time by about 2-3 weeks. I was going to take the last option, in the interest of getting it done sooner, but have decided to go for the second.

The clinic is about an hour away from London, but it is not recommended that you commute each day to the clinic, because the transplants can cause sudden changes in your bowel, mood and energy.

I don't think I ever commented on your first question though. Do I think antibiotics as a baby can cause IBS? Absolutely. Babies begin acquiring gut bacteria in utero, from their mother's digestive system. That bacteria is diverse, and antibiotics at a young age can completely wipe out entire strains. Strains that we don't have in supplement form. The theory is that FMT can replace those strains from a donor who still has them.


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## mellosphere (Sep 22, 2015)

Thank you for posting this information. Let us know if you decide to move forward with it. $200 per sample is quite a bit but I imagine this may be a pretty important part of the success of the treatment. Do you know if they will ship it or do you have to take it home? Just wondering if i'd have to take that through customs...lol i can't imagine the type of questions you might get asked haha. Dekka what country do you live in?


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## ♧Pandora☆ (Jun 23, 2017)

I believe (this is just my opinion from my experience) that if you take antibiotics when your ph level is acidic then they shouldn't cause problems. If the persons ph is normal then again it wont affect them. Some people can be to alkaline and i believe this is when they could cause the person problems.

My ph was to acidic. Iv took loads of antibiotics in my life and never had a problem with them.
My ph is normal now.
I was on some in jan for a infected cut but had a allergic reaction so had to go on another course. I had some for a tooth infection not long ago. Now yesterday i got given some for 7 days, 4 a a day.

I find no probs taking them. It makes no difference to my testing that i have done.
Nothing gets affected on results.

Just a note our ph can be to low or to high both are bad for our health. (Again just my opinion from my own experiences)
Our body should have a normal ph level.

I know theres a massive debate on if ph theory is true or not but i believe what i do due to my experience. 
So i believe it pays to know your ph level.


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## mellosphere (Sep 22, 2015)

pH level of what though? Our bodies don't really go from acidic to alkaline. Certain organs do need acid like the stomach to function properly but other than that it really varies very minimally.

I will admit i haven't studied this topic in depth but in my training I have never encountered anything that would give real support to the pH being an important factor with IBS or antibiotics.

I am glad you find no problem taking them but I am very affected by antibiotics. I don't know if that is related to my pH or not or if it even matters. All i am doing is trying to make sense of how I got here so hopefully I can find the road back to health one day.

Thanks for your input Pandora.


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## dekkalife (Aug 21, 2015)

Mellosphere, it is recommended that you go to the clinic for extra take home treatments because of the short time frame they have outside the freezer. They must however be taken in checked baggage, not carry on. They will allow a courier to pick them up but stress that it is not their responsibility if the treatments spoil. Likewise they said if the treatments are held in customs too long they may be useless.

I'm a temporary Canadian at the moment, hoping to make that permanent soon.


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## ♧Pandora☆ (Jun 23, 2017)

If someone takes them when they have low stomach acid it can cause even more of an alkaline effect on stomach acid, causing the person symptoms, even causing candida to change to fungal form etc, and other invaders the chance to take over.

I had my saliva, urine ph etc tested to, my blood ph was to acidic i didnt suffer any worse when taking them. Its normal now and i still dont suffer any symptoms from them. 
I did say theres debate on ph levels etc lol. Most cant agree if lemons, oranges,toms, apple cider vinagar etc has a acidic or alkaline effect.
Some say you cant shift your blood ph or you will die.

Docs only like to test for what they call high stomach acid (alot actually have stomach acid which is to alkaline),then docs give out ppis which make the person stomach acid even more alkaline leading to more problems in the long run.

Could you be allergic to what they give you ? The ones they gave me for my cuts, made me sick. 
I suppose anything is possible really i was told that you cant have a.b.s without candida etc. And i sure did.
i was also told by many a.b.s dont exist lol. Some say fmt is good some dont
So each to their own, i think the person should do what they choose. As if it works they get to live a normal life.

I do think its always good to look at why the person was on antibiotics in the first place to.

I also think ppis etc, food poisoning,low stomach acid, food intolerances etc have alot worse effect on health than antibiotics. But thats just my opinion again, and i guess everyones bodies are different.

My gp missed my infected tooth and said i had a viral, & that antibiotics wasn't needed i said im positive i need them he said no as his been told not to over prescribe. My infection spread i ended up so ill. My new gp gave me some.

Also some people dont look after their own bacteria.
When healing i followed a list of dos and dont, I can find my list if its any use to you.


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## mellosphere (Sep 22, 2015)

So for anyone interested, I just had a consultation with Newbery in Argentina for FMT. Here are the highlights.

The most common symptoms that people find relief from with FMT's according to the doctor were food intolerances, urgency, number of times to use bathroom, and abdominal pain.

They do not recommend or perform any type of colon cleansing procedure prior to the implants.

However, they do prescribe a low dose of prednisone to be taken 10 days prior to and then tapering off maybe 2 weeks after the implants.

All implants are done via enema and you are encouraged to eat a low inflammation diet.

Patients are welcome to come for anywhere from 1-4 weeks, with 2 weeks being the most optimal.

You will be trained to do the implant on your own and sent home with implants to continue at home. I asked about importing these into the US and they said they have not had any problems, the only time it was an issue was when someone tried to bring some home for somebody else.

I think i will try to go there and see what happens. I just have to find the time off work to be out of the country for 2 weeks.


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## dekkalife (Aug 21, 2015)

This has me concerned for my treatment at Taymount. I had my first colonic yesterday as preparation for my treatment starting September 4, and it was not a good experience. I found it quite painful, and the therapist mentioned that there was an irregular amount of mucus coming out. My gut has felt tender and bloated since then, and I've been passing very thin stool. This only usually happens for about a week after I fly, or for about a week after a colonoscopy. Each colonoscopy I've received, the doctor has mentioned that my large intestine looked a little inflamed but did not associate it with an inflammatory disease, rather just the preparation for the colonoscopy. Hearing that Newbery do not recommend cleansing, and prescribe prednisone before, during, and after treatment makes it clear that they obviously believe inflammation will be detrimental to the treatment. I'm sure the preparation at Taymount is going to cause me inflammation, which now has me worried.


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## mellosphere (Sep 22, 2015)

Keep us posted but try not to stress, i know that is easier said than done but the doctors at Taymount have a lot of experience and the best you can do right now is hope for the best.


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## acureisoutthere (Jun 28, 2014)

Well, if you think about it, the large intestine is inhabited by trillions of bacteria and consisting of thousands of species. We know that antibiotics kill bacteria. That's why we use them. In fact, I've read that antibiotics decimate the flora of digestive tract. They wreck havoc on it, killing up to a third of the species with just one course of antibiotic. Some of them come back after an year, and some of them never do.

So, it's quite clear and accepted that antibiotics are affecting our gut bacteria. The earlier a person takes antibiotics in their life is associated with a higher likelihood of developing obesity. It's changing foundational species, besides killing off species. Would your early exposure to antibiotics have caused your current IBS ? I'd say yes, in a round about way. Those early antibiotics killed off species and left you with a less diverse ecosystem. Then, later in life, for a number of reasons that perturb the microbiome, you reached a 'tipping point'. All of a sudden you had IBS-D and you couldn't always connect it with something specific. For some people, that tipping point is a case of food poisoning, for others it's something else. The end result is the same, a highly disturbed gut ecosystem that doesn't behave normally and causes a great deal of discomfort for the host human.

Quite a few people report associating the development of their IBS with a course of antibiotics. Others do not. I think it is important to focus on the ecosystem, the microbiome. I believe we are perturbing it from different sources to include medications, over the counter products, food additives, pesticide residues, herbicide residues, ect, ect. At some point a 'tipping point' is reached from all of these influences. The generally poor diet of Americans is also playing a role. We starve our good bacteria and often are just feeding bad bacteria with our high consumption of sugars. Then, we eat processed foods with emulsifiers (which cause inflammation), and we further this perturbation of our gut microbiomes. It is a cumulative affect, and sooner or later we reach a point that we disrupt this ecosystem so much so that it no longer functions normally. We eat foods and react to them because we may no longer have the bacteria species that can deal with those foods. It upsets our digestive system and our body tries to expel those foods which results in diarrhea.

For some people with IBS, they have excess gas or bloating and can often have cramping. When we have an excess of certain bacteria, this can be the cause. If you have IBS, your gut bacteria ecosystem is really out of whack. It's messed up. It's missing species.

Before I did my FMT, I would really have a flare up of diarrhea, and endless emptying if I ate a piece of bread. I quickly learned that I need to avoid bread, at all costs. The same thing was happening with dairy, I would pay for it , for three days. I learned that I couldn't have the smallest bit of cheese, or anything dairy. I hated it. It drove me to find an answer, to figure it out.

When I did my FMT, I did my best to eliminate my existing flora, and to replace it with the flora from my donor. Their flora was healthy, and balanced. It wasn't giving them any problems what so ever. This new ecosystem from my donor re-established missing species and corrected balances. It's why I can now eat bread with absolutely no problem, whereas before it was miserable. It's why I can eat so many foods now, that used to cause me problems. I've now got the species I was missing. I've now got the correct balance of species. My only exception is dairy. It is markedly improved, but still quite not without issues. I usually just take some Lactaid, and then I can have some dairy.

Yesterday, I was reading research about how children can be de-sensitized to a particular food that is giving them food allergies. So, with that information, I am going to try to slowly introduce tiny amounts of dairy, with the hopes that my body will become de-sensitized to dairy, or I might pick up the bacteria necessary to digest lactose. We'll see.

It's really interesting to hear about experiences with the Taymount and Newberry Clinics on this posting. In my opinion, you're on the right track, and I truly wish you success. This is a really interesting thread. Kudos. I do hope that you might visit my recent posting with links to articles and research reports about the microbiome. "Why we have IBS" These links are great.

One more thing this morning; I just finished reading "Dirt is Good" by Dr. Jack Gilbert and Dr. Rob Knight. This is an exceptional book in my opinion. It's cutting edge understanding of this ecosystem, our microbiome. It's impressive ! Another book I like is, "The Microbiome Solution" by Dr. Robynne Chutkan. This is a good foundational book to read, I'd read it before "Dirt is Good".

If you want to read about how antibiotics are affecting our gut flora, then I suggest the book, "Missing Microbes" by Martin Blaser. Great book.


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## acureisoutthere (Jun 28, 2014)

Here's a research report about early antibiotic use and it's affect on the gut flora.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4134513/

I'm sure there are others.


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## acureisoutthere (Jun 28, 2014)

Here's a research report on how antibiotics are affecting the gut flora.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4134513/

I'm sure there are others.


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## Midir (May 19, 2021)

I think that these kinds of medicine, I mean antibiotics, should be prohibited for kids under 16 years old. I believe that antibiotics are attacking the immune system, which is a nasty factor for all of us. We must protect them and give them the best we can. My son is 8 months old, and we are using the best electric breast pump to have always milk for him. This is the best remedy to improve his immunity system. It was recommended by my doctor. So you also can use this option to improve the health of your baby.


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## bushja1 (Apr 23, 2003)

I just had a skin cancer removed and was put on Antibiotics. Horrible reaction. I've lost 10lbs in less than a month. I only weighed 145. As a man I can't afford to lose anymore.


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## Athan (Oct 8, 2015)

acureisoutthere said:


> Here's a research report about early antibiotic use and it's affect on the gut flora.
> 
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4134513/
> 
> I'm sure there are others.


Well, we all had suspicions, but this is proof, isn't it ??

What about the antibiotics that are fed to all the animals we consume ?? Beef, pork, chicken and aquacultures are LOADED with antibiotics...

Apart from antibiotics, I think anything out of the ordinary, could also affect microbiome.

I.e. food additives, sugar, pesticides, vegetable growth hormones, etc.


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## Kenny (Jan 28, 2020)

I do not know whether this is relevant but I had COVID recently , I was out on *antibiotics *(*Ivermectin*)for 4 days. My IBS problems become 2X worse after that. Bloating has become the worst its every been.

I don't what has caused the sudden degradation - the antibiotics or Covid itself


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