# Maltodextrin????



## Guest (Aug 9, 2000)

Can anyone help me with this one? I have been following a fairly strict diet for about 3 months now. Recently my chiropracter suggested I eliminate all wheat products, citrus, cane sugar, tea and coffee from my diet. I have done so and this has helped with bloating and pain (upper gi) but not with C, which is the bain of my life!Previously, I noticed that when I ate carob covered rice cakes I would develop a very uncomfortable sensation in my upper gi tract. So I cut them out. Yesterday I ate two vienna sausages. Within an hour I was in agony with upper gi pain (it reaches from just under my ribs to my throat -- not heartburn) In an attempt to identify a common ingredient I checked the packaging and discovered that both contained Maltodextrin. What is it and can one be sensitive to it? Today I have a mega headache and feel lousy, also have unrelenting pain upper right quadrant through to my back and down my side.If anyone can help I'd really be grateful.Roz


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## SteveE (Jan 7, 1999)

Ahhh! Another member of the can't hack the corn-derived-sweetners club.That's right. Maltodextrin is a sweetner that is a step along the way to producing high fructose corn syrup (HFCS--which also translates to ADM corporation cash flow) and the ever-popular dextrose.I started my own elimination diet of sorts a few years ago and found that corn-based sweetners were the root of many of my problems. In fact 2 of the worst symptoms I used to suffer from, I no longer have. 1) Cramping late in the day (now only early in the day...lucky me) and 2) not nearly as much fatigue.Unfortunately, I never have found a diet combo to get rid of the rest of my symptoms, but I'm glad that two of the most debilitating are essentially gone--or at least they have been for about 2 years.Why might these products cause problems? I have a theory that it is because they are among the most easily fermentable sugars there are. Unfortunately, we can't stop fermentation in the gut...and actually, we wouldn't want to the way I understand it. BUT, I believe that these corn sweetners..at least for some of us cause certain bacteria to ferment that material in ways which cause us serious grief.If you ever read how they come up with these sweetners, you wouldn't want to consume them even if they didn't cause you problems ICK! The only sweetened stuff I have anymore is either real sugar or honey.


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## Guest (Aug 9, 2000)

Thanks Steve --- Does this corn sweetner bear any relation to sweetcorn, cornflour, and any other corn-based products? Do you eliminate them too?Are there any other corn derived sweetners I should look out for?Roz


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## scottyswotty (Jun 29, 2000)

I don't think there is much wrong with maltodextrin. It is a complex carbohydrate. It will have a lesser effect on blood sugar than sugar or fructose. It is used in Green Magma and quite a few health supplements.I do agree with your chiro saying cut out the wheat though.


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## AD (Jan 23, 2000)

Maltodextrin isn't sweet. I mix it in with juices and certain foods to try to gain weight and never taste it. It has been a life-saver for me as I am always too bloated to eat and weigh 72 pounds.


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## SteveE (Jan 7, 1999)

Here's the definition of Maltodextrin I found--then below I want to make a couple of comments to respond to the other posts...Maltodextrin What it is: A nonfermentable sugar obtained from cornstarch and an ADDITIVE that's used as a texturizer/bulking agent in commercial candies, crackers and puddings. GENERALLY RECOGNIZED AS SAFE when used within FDA guidelines. Found at: http://www.phys.com/b_nutrition/03encyclop...m/maltodex.html Firstly, I guess this blows my theory of fermenting in the gut, doesn't it? But HOW can a sugar be "non-fermentable????" Anyone know?Secondly, I actually I DO avoid ALL corn products. Here's how that came about: I first avoided the corn sweeteners based on my fermentation theory. One day, out of the blue, I felt as bad as I had before I quit the corn sweeteners. I figured SOMETHING must be to blame for this. The ONLY thing that had been different about my diet that week was that my wife baked pumpkin bars. Since her pumpkin pie never bothered me before and many of the key ingredients were the same, I sat down to take a look at what was different. Baking powder often contains corn starch. We've never baked with it since...either use a recipe that doesn't include it. OR buy the kind that substitutes other starches...like potato.Thirdly...FDA says "generally safe?" Big, fat, hairy deal. I trust them about as much as I trust...uhh..ok..I guess I won't go into politics here...Anyway, if my fermenting theory is wrong...or at least has a big hole shot in it...maybe I just have a general corn sensitivity/allergy?


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2000)

Thanks everyone for you posts.Steve do you have a sensitivity to any other corn products apart from maltodextrin and corn syrup? What about other grains and starches?Roz


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## SteveE (Jan 7, 1999)

roz--I guess that's a distinct possibility. I always thought maybe it was more of a fermentation issue, but now I'm beginning to wonder if I do have some sort of sensitivity to other grains or starches.Obviously, avoid corn has made for some improvement in how I feel, but I'm certainly NOT 100% better. I occasionally miss work from IBS, and usually there are multiple times during a week where I feel just plain uncomfortable from it but manage to trudge forward and get things done despite it.I have had one type of allergy test which reported I was sensitive to wheat and dairy as well as a few types of nuts. I tried avoiding all of those things and wound-up feeling so much worse after 3.5 weeks that my wife literally begged me to stop for fear I would die. I first added back the wheat and instantly got my energy back and the bowel began to go back to its usual abnormal state (as opposed to the far worse shape it was in while I avoided the wheat). Then I added back dairy. No more improvement, but I didn't get worse. I never did add back the nuts because peanuts were always a problem for me and almonds were suspect. On very rare occasions I'll have a couple of pecans or cashews...and I don't seem to get worse from it.So what grains or starches that are related to corn could it be? Especially if it isn't wheat? Could there be trace amounts of corn in soy products since they're often dealt with at the same grain elevator facilities? Could I be getting large enough amounts from weird sources like that to continue to cause my occasional problems?I don't know.


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

STEVEE:here is a very quickei reaction becasue I have to leave for a meeting in 15 minutes but maybe this can help soem thinking and come back to it later.Going strictly by memory, which may be fogged by the passage of time, I think "dextrins" are "non-fermentable" because they are polysaccharides. As noted above Maltodextrin is obtained from plants like corn by the hydrolysis of the starch (corn starch) producing a less-complex polymer, but more complex than di and monsaccharides. Other plolys are cellulose, pectin, and "gums".Polys can be hydrolyzed into monosaccharides which are fermentable (glucose, fructose, galactose, etc). And this reference is made in the context of "yeast fermentation" of sugars and starches as opposed to the "fermentation of glucose" of the Krebbs cycle's 2 processes of fermentation.I think that's the answer to that sidebar.----------------------------------The rest of your post suggests you are getting to be a pretty good detective. While pondering the corn issue, and the other grain issue, you tagged soy for question as well and here is where you are tocuching on a common element...lecitihin.Lecitihin occurs naturally in corn and soy and egg yolk. It is extrcted and used as an emulsifier, or spreading agent or defoaming agent in various concentrations in various processed foods. And any extract tends to concentrate the lecithin.So besides the possibility of being reactive to the corn, which is a problem I have, you may be reactivie to the lecitihin itself esp. if you get a good dose of it by, say, having a meal with some corn and soy products together, and maybe some other lecithin-enhanced product. I could not in the past tolerate lecithin (as an additive) nor soy products, but I can tolerate corn in moderate amounts (very mild response to corn...subclinical...uless I eat some big pile of corn products in a day).This is one of the most annoying things for people to try to work out with oral challenges...when the are sensitive to a grain like corn or soy, or both, AND to lecithin extracted from the grain.They stop eating corn and substitute soy, then get erratic results. Switch back without a good cleansing diet schedule (off one then right on the other) and the effects overlap because the substances are still in the gut and the granulocytes and lymphocytes are still actively engaged in releasing mediators, and the loci of irritation remain...or you do both then some lecithin is shoved into something and THAT produces a reaction...people go nus and throw up their hands and say AGH! Its not the grains...its not the food. I am going to strangle myself!Back to the can...OR sometimes a person goes on a good stoneage diet and starts to feel really crappy. So they ingesta little bit of the offending substance not knowing that it is, because they crave it and their brain rationalizes the eating of it...and they feel better a little. AHA! SEE? That does not make me sick it amkes me BETTER! Boink. This is called "masking" and is the most common ruination of the open-challenge approach to finidng triggers.It is a very hard process for some patients...you look like you may have been there.Gotta run but that is some non-reactive food for thought...MNLOH PS before I run...It is very unusual to feel sick for 3.5 weeks on a well designed elimination diet...you should feel crappy for a few days or even 10 after eliminating reactives and going "stone to midevil". But if you were very ill after 3 weeks the diet may have been one which contained a reactive substance, and it is all you were eating so you are double-dosing. There ARE people, for example, the rice-lamb-pears cleansing/exclusion diet is no good becasue they reactivity to rice or pear or lamb (I am pear intolerant). So working with a dietician or someone who really knows the subjetc can help...but if you go to one of the diets to prpeare for oral challenge and do not stabilize before the challenges, as you saw, it is impossible to learn anything except how to live badly and suffer...it sucks. That is why Dr. B's book discusses several diets to try to find one that gets you stable before the oral challenge phase. One size does not fit all, unfortunato.LaterMNL[This message has been edited by Mike NoLomotil (edited 08-14-2000).]


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## SteveE (Jan 7, 1999)

I can give a hearty AMEN to that part about possibly double-dosing on something that is actually offensive your system somehow...my guess is I was eating more corn chips and corn tortillas in place of wheat tortillas and wheat bread.The part of your post I don't get is this:"So they ingesta little bit of the offending substance not knowing that it is, because they crave it and their brain rationalizes the eating of it...and they feel better a little. AHA! SEE? That does not make me sick it amkes me BETTER! Boink. This is called "masking" and is the most common ruination of the open-challenge approach to finidng triggers."Why would one feel better if they're consuming the offending food, though? Also, when I went back on wheat, it wasn't a little better, it was like 75%+ at least. (Possibly because I went back to my old ways in terms of less corn, though, huh?)I'll look into the lecithin possibility. My diet has been so free of most processed foods now that it won't take me long to check the few labels which might relate.One of the key reasons I'm wondering about soy is this: when I felt my very best..roughly Oct 99-Feb 2000, I had been eating Lifestream brand Flaxseed waffles every morning up to some point when they changed the recipe to no longer use flaxmeal...just sprinkled the seeds on instead. Not good. Then I switched to Waffle Heaven for awhile and that worked fine too. Suddenly they changed their recipe and I didn't care for that either. I then decided on Lifestream Soy, but since that change I've never felt as good as I did for that stretch of Oct 99-Feb 2000.


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

OKAY! LUNCH BREAK..lets melt the keys.---------Sorry Steve, talking way too fast before to make sense of some things, like masking..lemme slow down a few minutes. Oh this could be one of those bandwidth busters...sorry.----A BETTER EXPLANATION OF MASKING---------A real odd phenomena has seen for years by the docs and dieticians who have been doing this dietary-exclusion stuff since Methusalas b'day. And what is clear is the symptoms, but not the entire mechanism. Sort of pieces-parts can be observed and quantified, and some are being examined better as technology and understanding improve.In the simple terms the immunologist(s) explained it to me, is this is one of the effects of having this totally linked system of the myenteric plexus-organs of immune system-tissue immune system (mast cells)-central nervous system "loop". These anatomic structures functions are integrated with the effects of the circulating "immune cells" which act independently of direct neurologic control (perform automatic functions in response to specific stimuli...then malfunction by performing these responses to the WRONG stimuli thus activiating the entire system inappropriately starting at the site of the source of neurologic control: motor end plates, myoneural junctions, unmyelinated nerves, and central neurons).Besides the chemical mediator cascades' direct effects of hypersensitivity (exaggereted gastrocolonic reflex; twitchy smooth muscle of both types in the gut wall; excess secretion production; supression of IgA, blabity blah) is the fact that often times the syndrome is complicated by Other systemic side effects of some of the foods ingested.One effect is the attachment, or cravings, for foods which are themselves triggers of neurotransmitters which "calm" or "sedate" the CNS (like endorphins or serotonin). Or the patient has become accustomed to a diet which contains caffein, or a lot of sugar, or was a disciple of the "dreaded" Dr. Atkins (dreaded by physiologists, adored by formerly fat now skinny people living in ketoacidosis...whatever trips your trigger)consuming mass amounts of protein, etc.Almost everyones starting diet, when one moves to one of the several stages of core elimination diets, suffers from one or more withdrawal symptoms. These symptoms tend to vary from patient to patient. Chapter 14 of Dr. Brostoffs book on food Intolerance which I push on everybody really describes all the clinical variations well.Anyway, this whole disrupted system, while we go along day by day consuming our diet, establishes its own "abnormal homeostasis" as opposed to "homeostatsis of health". Maybe it gets used to having a big bowl of Cap'n Crunch, a donut, 2 cups of coffee and then a massive D attack.Then lunch is a big processed-pig nitrate sandwich (ham) with white subroll full of emulsifiers and flavorings, plus processed condiments like Stoshakowski's Deli Mustard and Peshka's Giant Kosher pickles flushed down with a Pepsi.Or whatever. Some people are sick as dogs while "eating so healthy" (based upon what they were sold over at the health food store) that Eul Gibbons (oh, dead now, sorry, bad example) would not eat it. Tofu and spring water; with sprouted alfalfa topped with tahini; boiled kohlrabi and spelt muffin; carrot and rhubarb stew with free-range pearl onions...you get the picture. Still have thir IBS or migraine or chronic fatigue and are puzzled as hell.Does not matter...this is their current stable state and their body is chronically malfunctioning. Chemicals and hormones and neurotransmiters are freely circulating that are not supposed to be circulating putting the body is in a stable state of illness. Maybe its normal cycle is constipated and gas for 3 days followed by a massive D and fainting...D every day for a week followed by 3 days in bed and 30-40 Immodiums drying evrything up like a desert. Severe C for a week, until the laxatives or herbs pile up enough to elicit a massive spasmodic and unccordinated series of longitudinal and circular smooth muscle in the colon to prodcue a BM...then silence...or D...or ?And here we come along and just STOP IT.....So depending upon the person, their physiologic state, and the nature of the foods and additives involved in the diet and which are OK and which are not, since we do not know, the steady-state is disrupted and everything, good and bad, goes out like the baby with the bathwater.Not immunologically reactive to coffee? Who knows. Stop. Caffeine withdrawal. Not reactive to chocolate? Who knows...theophylline withdrawal...endorphin withdrawal...prostaglandins increase...menstrual cramps.Not reactive to wheat? Who knows? Twinkie withdrawal. Eating too much carbs? Outta there. Now your blood sugar and insulin are temporarily screwed up. Also in this mix is the neuroimmunologic HYPOTHESIS (nobody can see exactly what the steps in the reaction are...if it is prostoglandin or leukotrine or cytokine or whatever - tine or all of the above...) that the antigenic substances which are being constantly consumed, and keeping the immune system in a state of perpetual readiness and reaction to their presence, WHEN SUDDENLY WITHDRAWN (remember, with elimination diets we do not know until LATER which is the elevetaor and which is the shaft)elicit a type of "absence-of-substrate" reaction in the neuroimmune complex of the gut-brain-immun organs-spinal nerve-gut automatic nerves-and the hunters and scavengers of the immune system (see the desc. of these cells at the website). Every structure is geared up for a new load of (antigen x, antigen y and antigen z) to be ingested and....nothing.Ergo, clinially the patient presents with a picture not unlike withdrawal of any chemical stimulant of the CNS that has become habitual-a mechanism is set in motion to drive the body to consume it. When it is strong enough, and in combination with any other suddeny-absent stimuli it can get REAL STRONG...I have seen some severly reactive patients with very aberrant diets who had been consuming over and over an over the same diet, absolutely become distraught!So, the person sneaks a little of something and it provides THAT PARTICULAR SUBSTANCE to THAT PARTICULAR PORTION of the overall withdrawal complex. In the context of their present misery not only do they not get worse, they feel a little better. That little bit of reduced craving they can interpret as a signal that their body NEEDS the substance and that is WHY they feel rotten. You cannot IMAGINE how often therapists hear this...that no, we are wrong, the doc is wrong, they cannot POSSIBLY be reactive to (leeks?) because they ate them and now feel better. (RATS! Begin again!)That is the context of masking I was referring to. It masks some of the withdrawal symptoms, and if the patient is not being monitored carefully, and this is not picked up by the clinician, it can unravel the process.Again, this is a wordy simplified explanation of a clinical phenomenon that occurs over and over, that is not entirely understood (as to all the exact biochemical steps). Hence the new science of "neuroimmunology" emerging from strange happenings like this down in the lunch room.On the other hand, it is the clinicians call "sufficiently self-evidentiary" by those who do it every day. Like, you know that if you put the coffe beans in the grinder and flip the switch you get coffee. And that if you just through the beans in cold water you get beans in cold water. Or if I hit you in the head with a hammer, it will hurt.So a clinician gets to know that people with certain symptom-sets get sick when you change their diet, but from that you can follow them until they stabilize, then slowly owrk to find what makes them chronically sick. So they come up with alternative dietary approaches and monitoring systems to anticipate that as described in Dr. B's book, or they look for a shortcut.------------------THE WHEAT THING------------Hmmm. I guess I would want to see like a dietary log of the time...you know what wheat products were consumed and what else with them...and what you were eating on your elimination diet...I am most interested in the "sick for 3 weeks" time. THAT is the most important element, or the red-herring. Don't know which.Yeah, if one is lecitihin-sensitive and/or corn, and they were swapped as you describe that could be compromising the results. The thing about corn, though, that makes he want to walk around in a circles is only that is is way down on the frequency chart on the 1800 test-cases in my database. These were symptomatic (various types) patients, and out of 150 substances tested corn was th 146th most frequent reaction. Or, 145 things rshowed up more often than corn. Lecithin is about #67...wheat is 119. BUT when a wheat reaction was detected, it has the strongest aggregate reaction. -----You said:"I have had one type of allergy test which reported I was sensitive to wheat and dairy as well as a few types of nuts. I tried avoiding all of those things and wound-up feeling so much worse after 3.5 weeks that my wife literally begged me to stop for fear I would die. I first added back the wheat and instantly got my energy back and the bowel began to go back to its usual abnormal state (as opposed to the far worse shape it was in while I avoided the wheat). Then I added back dairy. No more improvement, but I didn't get worse. I never did add back the nuts because peanuts were always a problem for me and almonds were suspect. On very rare occasions I'll have a couple of pecans or cashews...and I don't seem to get worse from it.--------If you had any of the IgE/IgG tests which were positive, (I forgot what you had)just because they test positive does not mean one is clinically reactive. It is about 50% reliable...like prick testing. When you felt worse when you went off wheat and nuts, does that mean you got real unstable (bad D, pain etc) or constitutional (weak, tired, irritable, no energy, depressed, etc). Is that all that you removed? What was your diet during that time?Not nosy but curious when one is il that long from just wheat removal.--------------The soy waffles being introduced and a small backslide occurring is definitely suggestive. But it is just so hard to say anything definitive except look around at labels and look for "common ground"...something in your diet that fits the "FOODS THAT BITE"post (histaminic foods, etc) and get rid of those...or some substance that seems to be there frequently. If you are not comfortable trying another different type of elim diet, you know, look for repeat stuff.--------------------Footnote-Flaxseed-------PS: I am told by By Mark P. that the flaxseed oil is very good for your cardiovascular system, esp your coronary areteries, so if you can tolerate it sounds ike a good thing to keep in the diet.If I can provide any other feedback let me know. I know its wordy but some things just do not fit the quick-answer format. And dietary management is one of those things.---------------------------------OOOOO...man.. did I go over lunch and length!Sorry.MNL[This message has been edited by Mike NoLomotil (edited 08-14-2000).]


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## SteveE (Jan 7, 1999)

Ok...I think I get the masking thing now--at least in terms of how the craving itself can be a trigger. But how does one know which it is...I mean that could put one in some sort of endless circle, couldn't it?In answer to your question about how exactly I felt worse during those 3.5 weeks...you named all of it. I had more D than I had before the diet began. I felt extremely weak. I lost weight (for the first time in this whole battle with IBS)--and I don't have much to lose! I'm only 130-135 on a 5' 8 or 9 frame...with these long arms and legs, I look like I starve myself! But everyone who knows me KNOWS that I DON'T! I may still have my diet log from those few weeks. I kept pretty good records on that kind of stuff at the time. Frankly, I'm not even sure anymore. I think Vans rice waffles were about the only processed food I ate at all during those weeks. I'm sure some of the usual staples I eat now were key then too like chicken, turkey, brown rice, & green beans (perhaps a few pinto or black beans on occasion) and an apple a day (peeled). Lots of water...I don't think I was totally off of caffinated tea yet at that time, though.My view as to why wheat removal was so devastating is that I wasn't getting enough fiber or carbs to take its place, but I don't know.


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

HI STEVE:Just got "notified" that I am immediately required to run to the store and pick up all the stuff my stepson had all summer to get for school to start and did not. How did I get delegated? Anyway, just took a quick look around before leaving and saw you had posted. A quick read lets see whats up-----------------------"Ok...I think I get the masking thing now--at least in terms of how the craving itself can be a trigger. But how does one know which it is...I mean that could put one in some sort of endless circle, couldn't it?"----------------------Aboslutley correct sir. Thank goodness that Part II of the phenomenon occurs during the elimination period...the cravings will disappear if you can help coach the patient past them. One cannot tell from the cravings if that is a reactive substance, if it is one of the "happy chemical" or habituals substances, or if there is an element (say Tyramine) in a food that is responsible. They are not diagnostic of anything except being symptomatic of a phase that the patient passes through.So the dietician does not try to analyze the withdrawal symptoms or cravings, just help the person work past it. This is the interesting part because there are about 6 or 8 basic "come and go" patterns as the withdrawal period lengthens and the antigens are removed by the gut, the liver , etc. and stability is achieved, and there are basic strategies that can be incorporated into the patients support to help get past it (weapons are usually kept under lock and key during this period).------------------------OKAY! That's interesting.So basically the only thing that changed in your diet was you stopped consuming all wheat products. Your conclusion would make sense if you where a typical American Wheat Head. We tend as a culture to focus on wheat and wheat products, take whetya bran when we need bulk as opposed to going to soluble fiber like pectin. If your gut was accustomed to this being your primary source of fiber, and it was substantial, it could be reasonable to conclude this was a problem.But the removal of the fiber would not account for all your systemic & constitutional symptoms. Thats the part that makes this not a red-herring.These are, from your description, consistent with someone actively exposed to something evoking a very strong hypersensitivity reaction, removal of a reactive substance and replacing it with another to which one is also reactive (but not the same food-family, so the response and withdrawal stack up on each other) or unusually strong and protracted symptoms of withdrawal from the same.----------------------Taking a purely dietary-manipulation approach, what one would "do" with you (how impersonal...do not mean it to sound like that) in a traditional milieu would be toa. keep a very detailed intake log and symptom log for a week to 10 daysb. look at it and see which of the several alternative elimination diets would be suitable to begin with (as described in Dr. B's book there are several alternatives to suit different patients).Gottaa run...sorry for being kinda brief but times a wastin'Mike


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## SteveE (Jan 7, 1999)

I'm perfectly willing to keep a log again, but there's one thing I can't shake whenever I consider doing so:My symptoms somehow get into weekly cycles. The current cycle is as follows:Tuesday--bad cramps, average gasWednesday--less severe cramps, average gasThursday--variesFriday--bad gas, bad cramps, often multiple trips to the bathroom (though not always)Saturday--brief cramps--but moderate, better gas situationSunday--often few if any cramps, sometimes little or no urge to use the restroom, average gasMonday--sort-of my median day...wake-up with a few cramps, a little gas, one trip to the can...not bad, not greatThere have been stretches of months where this pattern has repeated with a slight variation...where the worse than usual Tuesdays and Fridays were Wednesdays and Saturdays, for example. And this isn't to say that I've never had a bad day on Mondays or Sundays---they're just rare. In fact, the worst IBS day I can ever remember was a Monday.But it seems to be fairly constant that there is a reduction of symptoms on Sunday...or the emergence of a brief/minor constipation-type symptom. (depending on how you look at it I guess). Given what much of the literature says about stress and sleep. I always associated this with being my one sleep-in day and/or the reduced stress experienced on the previous day. How could food sensitivity explain such a pattern? Especially when my diet is kept very constant throughout the week?


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

HI STEVE.Sorry I missed your post and am cutting short. I was in Miami untla past midnite and have to go bcak again now and took this long to work backwards to here.I will write more tomorrow when I have had more time to review excalty what you wrote.A quck comment though. I was very similar when I went into what I call my "first phase to stability". for many years when i had no clue what was causing the problem my patterns were very generally either constant repetitive D attacks, every 48 hours lasting for 12-18 hours, or occasionally for a month or two cyclic C&D of about a weeks duration, with specific progression from one to the other than was observable.After my fist-stage diet change (based on open oral challenges after going from carnivore to a vegeterian dietary base) caused (over a period of about 9-12 months) a slow change in cycly of lengthening it (reduced frequency of change). I then had a specific 3-week cycle of specific stability, with a specific progresion of symptom onset culminating in a much milder D episode (of maybe 4-6 hours with much less pain and requiring much less pharmacotherap). Rarely was C an after effect.This went on from about 1993-1997. To the point that it was a running joke with Pasula and the dietician about what week it was...was "Mikes Day" due yet?This was finally, after further dietary change from the new technology finding something previously unknown...extended to now prolonged period os stability with no pattern except: eat something reactive...get sick tomorrow.The best example is sub-toxic dose of poison being taken at frequencies equal to, say, the serum half-life of the poison. So if you tak a sub-moribund dose you perceive not symptom. The poison has a serum half life of 12 hours, so 12 hours later to take some more, and the serum level goes up equivalent ot the resisual plus the new dose based upon its absorption time. But say it is still sub-clinical thus sublethal. 12 hours later take some more. pretty soon you will reach a serum level where symptoms appear, and if the cycle continues the lethal dose will eventually be reached. Like slow-poisoning by arsenic.Non Type I allergic reactions (delayed ttypes and those tpyes that are dependent upon the antigen getting to the mucosa of the gut an getting absorbed in sufficient dose to eleicit a granulocyte response, thus making them clinically delayed) will thus present often in this fashion. And it can be BECAUSE it is something consumed on a routine basis in single sub-elicitory doses, or the response is small enough from one does for the bosy to absorb the mediators asymptomatically. Evenually enough accumulates that symptoms are noted...ie: the myentery plexus starts to fire of inappropriately, the uncordinated spasmodic contractions begin to occur, systemic effects are felt form such things as excessive choliergic activation (chills, flashes) on to termination by evacuation. Then begin again.Thats a quick oversimplified example of how these cycles clinically occur in patients (they vary across a wide range) and what shows up one xamination.----------------I am late! Gtta go now.CU later...tomorrowMNLSORRY...no type to edit for typos or other rush-errors...


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## SiusannaJ (Dec 7, 2016)

This thread is 16 years old and I have not read all the replies but I do want to say that I have a severe maltodextrin intolerance. It began in 2005, 11 years ago. I have to read every ingredient of every food/drug I ingest. Accidental ingestion of one food I eat causes a miserable 24-48 hours of severe diarrhea, flatulence, burning of the rectal area, & I often am not able to be far from my bathroom and bed because of the burning. Initially I was often told it was a corn allergy. It's not. I do have a gluten intolerance and a dairy allergy but the symtoms & resultant response are not the same, definitely not as extreme as if I had ingested maltodextrin. I started a page on Facebook called "Maltodextrin Intolerance Awareness," wanting to bring awareness to others who might have the same problem and informing others. I also hoped to bring awareness of our situation to the medical community that isn't accepting of our malady or by the FDA and food production industry. Research is showing that those of us with severe maltodextrin intolerance probably have IBS and that the maltodextrin is most likely altering the bacteria in our gut, possibly causing a salmonella-like environment. My page has some 400 members who are dealing with the same issue. The food industry has run a muck with use of maltodextrin and we have a very difficult time with our diets.


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