# Time Out Guys!



## AZMom (Oct 13, 1999)

I haven't been around for a while, but I'm back and reading some of these HT posts. Some of you may know I have trained in hypnotherapy. I do not practice however. I would like to put my two cents in here.Eric, I know where you are coming from. We've been through this together, and you have continued to fight a battle that has been unjustly waged against you personally. I know why you do this. For the same reason I do, but your committment and strength is greater than mine. I hate to see you attacked for advocating something that can help many, many people. To find something that has helped us each after 30 years of true suffering. I cannot understand why you are constantly attacked, however, I think you have misunderstood ChrisGeorge...ChrisGeorge: I have not seen all of his posts. What I have seen has been reasonable. He is right about regression therapy...it does have it's place. It can help the therapist uncover reasons a patient is not progressing in hypnotherapy. It is not for IBS. Perhaps I have missed some posts, but I find him quite well informed on topics in hypnotherapy. Haven't seen much about IBS. Chris, I have spoken with Melissa about her protocol, and in my opinion Mike's is better. I'd like to see you continue to post on this forum.Tom: I often find your posts incoherent. I have a hard time believing you are a psychologist and cannot take your posts seriously.AZ


----------



## trbell (Nov 1, 2000)

can you be more specific about incoherence? tom


----------



## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote: He is right about regression therapy...it does have it's place.


Deceiving patients has a place?


----------



## Nikki (Jul 11, 2000)

I find Toms posts incoherant also. They are abstract and bizarre. Same as your website Tom. First time i went to look at it i could not navigate it at all, and your CV, or whatever it is on there is unreadable. Wouldn't be able to see your qualifications if i wanted to.


----------



## chrisgeorge (Feb 28, 2003)

Flux,I bit my tongue this morning reading your post and thought "let it ride". Problem is, I'm a firm believer in "Silence is approval". And this needs to be shouted from the roof tops!!I would first suggest you do some more reading in hypnosis. While you're right in the allegation that false memories happen (especially in the hands of un-trained hypnotists or hypnotherapists). And in Police matters, there have been many clinical trials where a crime scene has been acted out and witnesses under hypnosis are asked to "remember" the events. And yes, they're all over the map in their recollection. However, having said that, more and more police associations are employing techniques from Forensic Hypnosis in aiding victims to remember crime scenes. But I think you have a bigger problem ahead:Specifically, recently the U.S Supreme Court in the Rule 702 of the Federal Rules of Evidence, which governs expert witness testimony provides: "If scientific, technical, or other specialized knowledge will assist the trier of fact to understand the evidence or to determine a fact in issue, a witness qualified as an expert by knowledge, skill, experience, training, or education, may testify thereto in the form of an opinion or otherwise". The requirement of Rule 702 that the testimony "assist the trier of fact to understand the evidence or to determine a fact in issue" requires that such testimony be relevant. Under the Federal Rules of Evidence, all relevant evidence is admissible unless specifically excluded by law ( which hypnosis is not..ed).Under the Daubert ruling (1982), which replaced the 1923 Frye v. United States, 293 F. 1013 (D.C.Cir 1923)the trial court should not allow the fact finding process to become distorted by so-called "junk science" andmust: (1) determine whether the witness is sufficiently qualified by "knowledge, skill, experience, training or educaction" before being permitted to provide expert testimony; and (2) "ensure that any and all scientific testimony or evidence admitted is not only relevant, but reliable". In determing the validity and reliability of scientific testimony, the trial court should consider several factors including: (1) testing and validation of the scientific principle or methodology; (2) peer review and publication; (3) known or potential rate of error; and (4) "general acceptance" of the scientific therory or technique. Texas just adopted model rules of evidence identical or simiar to the Federal Rules of Evidence (Rule 702, Texas Rule of Evidence).So Flux, I say you now have a bigger problem, seeing the United States Assistant Attorney now "allows" forensic hypnosis ( which is regression) to be allowed into the courts, as long as the above criteria are met.Good luck in your battle with the Government. I guess its not considered "pseudo-science" anymore. And its certainly not "deceiving" as you have so eloquently implied.


----------



## AZMom (Oct 13, 1999)

Flux, Regression therapy has a place. I have a feeling we're talking about different things. Here's a story. A man and his wife want to quit smoking. Pretty straight forward for hypnotherapy, it works very well I'm sure you'll agree. The wife does fine, quits easily, no problem. The husband is unable to quit. The hypnotherapist uses regression to find out what is blocking the man's progress. They find out that the man's best friend died in Vietnam while saving our patient. The man always felt subconsciously that he should have died instead. By continuing to smoke he was killing himself, fullfilling those subconscious thoughts. Once this was uncovered it could be dealt with in hypnotherapy and the man quit smoking.This is how hypnotherapists use regression. In hypnosis you ask the patient to go back to the time/place that is causing the problem. The subconscious mind takes you to that time or place, then it is quite easy to uncover the problem.AZ


----------



## chrisgeorge (Feb 28, 2003)

Sorry almost forgot - that information was supplied by Retired Police Inspector Marx Howell, a Forensic Hypnotist with many years of court experience. The information was originally supplied to his association by United States Assistant Attorney Gerald Garruth. Just in case you wanted to know.


----------



## Guest (Jul 12, 2003)

Good posts, AZ..... I can't comment from the perspective of a therapist, but I can comment from the perspective of a patient who has undergone hypnotherapy and regression therapy. I may be an exception, but the regression therapy did nothing for me except to upset me even further. For me, forgiving my abusers and putting my past behind me was the answer. The key concept here is in the FORGIVING. I find the type of hypnotherapy used in Michael Mahoney's recordings to be very soothing, calming, relaxing and peaceful as well as enabling better focus and concentration.I have never found Tom's posts to be incoherent. I think that sometimes he writes from the perspective of a researcher which may be difficult for some to comprehend. It's similar to when a programmer writes a help book.... they have difficulty putting themselves in the position of the users who will be reading the help book. I find Tom's information to be very accurate and his insight very refreshing. He has also gone out of his way to help me when I needed a friend.I find Eric's passion for attempting to offer the benefits of hypnotherapy to new members commendable, and as long as the new members understand his role and that they need to also consult with a realtime physician/therapist, I see no issues. More importantly, what he promotes has a great track record and it's pretty hard to argue with statistics. Eric has also gone out of his way to help me.Like you, I also find most of what Chris posts to be reasonable. The one time I found his posts unreasonable occurred on a different board. Clearly the focus needs to address the background, needs and capabilities of all who might read information posted as often what helps one may not help the next and it has the potential to put people off if not worded in ways that address those differences.I can't help but feel that there is a need for all of us to expand our horizons a bit, step back, and weigh/view information in consideration of its source and relate it to our own personal needs and experiences without reacting on a personal basis. In other words, when we are unable to post something that positively contributes to a discussion, or that refrains from insulting another member, maybe we need to re-think posting. This requires maturity







.... as well as compassion for our fellow sufferers. Something else that is more important than any of the above is that if this support board is going to work the way it was intended, the personal insults need to end. Sometimes while reading the heated threads, it's almost as if the members are actually enjoying hurting each other. When in "FIGHT MODE"... absolutely nothing can be accomplished.And when it comes to discussing all the differences in approaches to hypnotherapy, I think the best thing to do when new members have questions is to identify our roles, relate our experiences to them, and suggest that if they have questions that go beyond our realm of "expertise"... that they speak with their own realtime physicians and therapists. People also need to understand the concept that information on this board is utilized at their own risk.Evie


----------



## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:The hypnotherapist uses regression to find out what is blocking the man's progress. They find out that the man's best friend died in Vietnam while saving our patient. The man always felt subconsciously that he should have died instead.


It sounds like the same thing (if there is something else that is) and it's *bogus*


> quote:ecently the U.S Supreme Court in the Rule 702 of the Federal Rules of Evidence, w


This is just red herring.There is a detailed assessment explaining why regression therapy is deceptive at http://skepdic.com/repress.html


----------



## chrisgeorge (Feb 28, 2003)

Flux,Thanks for the web site. went to it. Aren't they the same people that do www. theworldisflat.com?


----------

