# IBS and Urinary symptoms



## 23470 (Apr 18, 2005)

I'm a 28 y/o male with IBS-D (occassional C). I've had concurrent urinary symptoms longer than I've been diagnosed with IBS, but had them as long as I've had my current set of bowel problems. I went to a urologist the other day for cloudy urine (turned out it's either phosphaturia or more likely from my calcium supplements) and after I said I had IBS he explained to me that even though docs don't know the in's and out's of it, there is a definite connection to IBS and muscular problems in the abdominal area. He mentioned levator ani syndrome, pelvic floor dysfunction, etc. I have bouts of urinary problems (occassional burning, but not like a UTI, more like when muscles ache when you overwork them......and also occassional more frequent urination) and found this link:http://www.emedicine.com/med/topic1190.htmTowards the bottom it mentions urinary symptoms presenting in IBS patients. Do any of you have similar problems. I know that after last weekend when I walked about 10 miles in NYC with the wrong shoes that in addition to a sore back and blisters, my abdominal muscles and gut in general felt real tight.....shortly thereafter the bladder aches and frequency began. I've had it happen before and go away....just wondering if I'm the only one?


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## 14473 (Mar 20, 2006)

Hi thereInteresting post as I too am Male 27 yrs old with IBS and a bad bladder. I too got my bladder symptoms a little before my bowels started playing up. I have a constant feeling like I need to void but I obviously do not. It can be painfull at times. My IBS is a mix of C and D and I have some problems with gas production ....I have also been to a urologist but at that time my bowels were ok. I had a hydrodistension which showed that I did not have IC but the biopsies showed some mild inflammation. I am considering going back to him to revisit my bladder problems because it is really getting to me. I think it is worse too for bowel issues because I don't like to drink too much fluid because it makes my bladder worse. It also sucks socially! I would be interested to know more of your symptoms - how long have you had them for? I have had bladder issues for around 4 years and bowel issues for 3 years.


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## 23470 (Apr 18, 2005)

Well, my urinary symptoms started again about two years ago with burning after urination...especially right after or close proximity of a bowel movement. I had a prostate infection at 15 and the doctors thought it was that, but they never found any infection, cancer, etc after lots of testing....but they never needed to do the ol' cam up the hootey-hoo. I eventually found a more enlightened (read: not one of those "I'm just going to throw antibiotics at it" type of docs) doctor that said it had nothing to do with my urinary tract, but rather my rectum. He sent me to a good GI who told me that my fissure I had been fighting with (caused by my IBS) was causing muscle spasms that radiated to the muscles around the bladder, urethra, penis that created the sensation of burning. Once I got the fissure under control, the burning went away for the most part. I still get it now and again. The most predominant symptoms that I have now..on occassion...are urgency and sometimes frequency. This usually occurs after I've had a bout of IBS or I've done a lot of heavy lifting that's caused those muscles to spasm. Sitting at a desk all day doesn't help, either. My urinary doc said I would see a world of difference if I would get a hemmorhoid pillow....it also removes pressure from the muscles in spasm...thus relieving symptoms. Problem is that I have to find an incognito one that doesn't look like the traditional doughnut. I'm a young male that works in a very joking relaxed environment of other young males...so you see my problem.


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## 14473 (Mar 20, 2006)

thanks poboyrossYou have an interesting story which could relate to my issues, although I do not have any burning, but sometimes can feel weird muscle spasiming things happening.I will talk to a urologist about it, last time he mentioned that i may have some issues with pelvic floor muscles.As for the pillow - I hear you. Maybe try it out at home - if it makes the difference it might be worth it


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

There seems to be through research, a cell embedded in the gut called a mast cell which is connected to IBS and bladder issues as well as some other very important issues. poboyroos, are they going to test you for pelvic floor issues?


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## 23470 (Apr 18, 2005)

Jacko- I have some of the same spasm type feelings from time to time around my bladder/urethral area....it's definitely an odd to uncomfortable feeling when it happens. As I mentioned, it usually occurs after lots of walking, working, or sitting....excessive amounts, I mean.Eric- Nah, after I went to see this most recent urologist, I don't see much of a reason to keep on pursuing it. It doesn't occur very often and I can directly trace it to how "tense" I feel down there. Plus, what else is he going to do? He was able to pretty much diagnose it based upon symptoms because he's run into it so much (pelvic floor issues related to IBS related to fissures related to sitting all the time...yadda yadda yadda). I could press him to do all of these tests, stick his finger up my bum....not to mention other tools...only to still find out he's correct. They've done a lot of testing already...stool, urine, blood, upper GI, ultrasound....it all comes back fine. I've read about some of the mast cell studies, too...and who knows, it could be related. These are the cells that release histamine into local tissues, irritating them. It works just like traditional allergies for the most part. In some people with IBS they've found increased histamine production by the mast cells in the gut, thus causing irritation. There also seems to be a connection to stress and the brain-gut axis. Anyways, my IBS issues got 1000% better after I cut fast food out of my diet. I had almost the exact same thing happening to me that Morgan Spurlock (Super Size Me) had happening to him. Your body gets addicted to it, then your body starts having problems with regular food...thus you want to eat more fast food, until the fast food starts turning on you. That's what happened to me and I found out about that movie.....that food AINT natural. The chemicals in it were severely aggravating my IBS. I cut it out, began eating healthier, and I'm lots better.


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## overitnow (Nov 25, 2001)

poboyross said:


> Anyways, my IBS issues got 1000% better after I cut fast food out of my diet. I had almost the exact same thing happening to me that Morgan Spurlock (Super Size Me) had happening to him. Your body gets addicted to it, then your body starts having problems with regular food...thus you want to eat more fast food, until the fast food starts turning on you. That's what happened to me and I found out about that movie.....that food AINT natural. The chemicals in it were severely aggravating my IBS. I cut it out, began eating healthier, and I'm lots better.


I often wonder how many of us--and I especially include myself in this group--have brought this on through our diets and habits (and from my experience I would place tobacco high on that list). Congratulations on catching this early. Now the challenge is to remember it when walking by a McDonalds.







How's the GERD?Mark


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Fats are one of the biggest triggers to the gastro colonic responce which is connect to the defecation reflex. In IBSers this responce can be exagerated.Poboyroos, you seem to be preety well read up on IBS. a couple of things. IN IBS d there is an increase released of serotonin after eating, which is not reuptaked.also fyiFYIDr Drossman's comments on foods for IBS Health.Shawn,To say that people with IBS may get symptoms from food intolerances is an acceptable possibility, since the gut will over react to stressors of all types including food (high fat or large volumes of food in particular). Futhermore, there can be specific intolerances. So if you have a lactose intolerance for example, it can exacerbate, or even mimic IBS. Other examples of food substances causing diarrhea would be high consumers of caffeine or alcohol which can stimulate intestinal secretion or with the latter, pull water into the bowel (osmotic diarrhea). The same would be true for overdoing certain poorly absorbed sugars that can cause an osmotic type of diarrhea Sorbitol, found in sugarless gum and sugar substituted foods can also produce such an osmotic diarrhea. Even more naturally, people who consume a large amount of fruits, juices or other processed foods enriched with fructose, can get diarrhea because it is not as easily absorbed by the bowel and goes to the colon where it pulls in water. So if you have IBS, all of these food items would make it worse. However, it is important to separate factors that worsen IBS (e.g., foods as above, stress, hormonal changes, etc.) from the cause or pathophysiology of IBS. Just like stress doesn't cause IBS, (though it can make it worse), foods must be understood as aggravating rather than etiological in nature. The cause of IBS is yet to be determined. However, modern research understands IBS as a disorder of increased reactivity of the bowel, visceral hypersensitivity and dysfunction of the brain-gut axis. There are subgroups being defined as well, including post-infectious IBS which can lead to IBS symptoms. Other work using brain imaging shows that the pain regulation center of the brain (cingulate cortex) can be impaired, as well as good evidence for there being abnormalities in motility which can at least in part explain the diarrhea and constipation. So finding a specific "cause" of IBS has grown out of general interest in place of understanding physiological subgroups that may become amenable to more specific treatments. Hope that helps.Doug http://www.ibshealth.com/ibs_foods_2.htmhttp://www.ibshealth.com/ibsfoodsinfo.htmDr Wood's comments for me"Dr. Jack Wood, a renowned physiologist at The Ohio State University calls the ENS â€œthe little-brain-in-the-gut.â€ "Dear Shawn:Sorry for the delayed reply to your question. I generally agree with Dr. Drosssmanâ€™s response. A subgroup of individuals when they become sensitized to specific molecules in certain foods respond to ingestion of the molecules with symptoms of cramping abdominal pain, fecal urgency and explosive watery diarrhea. These are also the primary symptoms of diarrhea-predominant IBS. Enteric mast cells, by mechanisms we donâ€™t understand, become sensitized to the food molecule and respond to its presence by releasing a signal to the brain-in-the-gut (ENS) which is interpreted as a threat. The ENS responds by â€œrunningâ€ a program which organizes secretion and motility into a behavior pattern of the bowel, which rapidly clears the threat from the lumen. Because to be effective secretion occurs in large volumes and the contractions that accomplish rapid propulsion are strong, running of the program has the side effects of diarrhea and cramping pain. Big brain input to mast cells during stress activates the mast cells to evoke the symptoms resulting from exposure of the mast cells to sensitizing food antigens. Aside from food allergens and mast cells, certain chemicals such as those in hot peppers, stimulate sensory nerves in the ENS and we are beginning to understand how this can also lead to food-related symptoms that might mimic or exacerbate IBS.Hope this helps,Jackie (Jack) D. Wood " FYI"You have two brains: one in your head and another in your gut. Dr. Jackie D. Wood is a renowned physiologist at The Ohio State University. He calls the second brain, "the-little-brain-in-the-gut." This enteric nervous system is part of the autonomic nervous system and contains over one hundred million neurons, which is as many as are in the spinal cord. This complex network of nerves lines the walls of the digestive tract form the esophagus all the way down to the colon. This little brain in the gut is connected to the big brain by the vagus nerves, bundles of nerve fibers running from the GI tract to the head. All neurotransmitters, such as serotonin that are found in the brain are also present in the gut.Dr Wood has discovered that this little-brain-in-the-gut has programs that are designed for our protection and which are very much like computer programs. They respond to perceived threats in the same way that the limbic system or the emotional brain does. So the threat of a gastrointestinal infection can activate the program that increases gut contractions in order to get rid of the infection. The symptoms are abdominal cramping and diarrhea. Dr. Wood has determined that a type of cell found in the body and the gut, called the mast cell, is a key to understanding the connection of the big brain in the head with the little-brain-in-the-gut. Mast cells are involved in defense of the body. In response to certain threats or triggers, such as pollen or infection, mast cells release chemicals, such as histamine, that help to fight off the invader. Histamine is one of the chemicals that causes the symptoms of an allergy or a cold. When an infection of the gut occurs, such as food poisoning or gastroenteritis, the mast cells of the gut release histamine. The little-brain-in-the-gut interprets the mast cell signal of histamine release as a threat and calls up a protective program designed to remove the threat â€" at the expense of symptoms: abdominal pain and diarrhea. The brain to mast cell connection has a direct clinical relevance for irritable bowel syndrome and other functional gastrointestinal syndromes. It implies a mechanism for linking allostasis and the good stress response to irritable states (e.g., abdominal pain and diarrhea) of the gut. Mast cells can be activated to release histamine in response to perceived psychological stress, whether the stressor or trigger is consciously perceived or not. So the end result is the same as if an infection activated the program in the-little-brain-in-the-gut: abdominal pain and diarrhea."http://www.parkviewpub.com/nuggets/n5.html


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## newscat (Jun 2, 2007)

If it's any consolation, I'm female and I think when my IBS hits it affects me urologically too. It's like I feel the need to go but my muscles don't want to urinate or at least only a dribble. Sometimes it's like the flow is off kilter as if something is blocked.Several years ago, I had some gynecological problems and at a certain time each month I couldn't urinate, acted as if blocked. I finally figured out and doctors agreed with me -- since they couldn't really figure it out with certainty -- that it was a combination of my gynecological problems, monthly cycle and the IBS.any more ladies with similar problems? Maybe I'll post this on the women's health issues side, too.


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## 23534 (Feb 27, 2006)

I have had the same problem, to the extent that I did some online research and found a support organization that deals strictly with this. I always did believe that there was a connection between the IBS and spastic bladder; it just makes sense to me. They both stem from muscle dysfunction, true? Anyway, I empathize. None of this is any fun.


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## newscat (Jun 2, 2007)

Could you tell us about the support organization or give us a link?And are you a female or male sufferer? I've not encountered a female sufferer with the urinary link.


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