# Gas ?



## 13471 (Feb 16, 2006)

How many of you have gas alot with ibs? Belching , breaking wind etc ?I have it alot lately and have gas pains in my stomach always releived by either burping or breaking wind .Anyone else like this ?Thanks


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## 13540 (Aug 18, 2005)

lol i do derekm have the same fills better when you do it


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## 13540 (Aug 18, 2005)

try chewing your food and eating slower it helps some!!


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## 21286 (May 7, 2005)

I am a very gassy person and gas HURTS. I get gas everyday, all day. Nothing seems to help with the gas issue.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:How many of you have gas alot with ibs?


In a word, noone.Excess gas is not associated with IBS per se, so having an excess is an independent problem.


> quote:I am a very gassy person and gas HURTS.


On the other hand, gas does *not* hurt on its own. The hurt is caused by IBS.


> quote:I get gas everyday, all day.


Since excess gas seems to be a rare problem, how do you know you have a lot? Most people claiming to actually have a normal amount.


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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

> quote:Since excess gas seems to be a rare problem


I don't know where you've got the research with the washout technic Flux but we all know that with some particular foods,we produce more.Take for exemple beans.







It's all depend if you eat food who produce gas.Then i think the bacterias are reproducing exponentielly.


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Bacteria really only can grow exponetially under certain circumstances. I think in the colon things are much more likely to be steady state. To grow rapidly they really need excess food, and very few bacteria to start with. Once you get a population established they don't reproduce rapidly. If they continued that exploit a new resource rapid division endlessly they would all starve to death.The increase in gas with certain foods can occur simply by bacteria that are already hanging around waiting to get some food. They don't need to have a spike in their reproduction. K.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:but we all know that with some particular foods,we produce more.Take for exemple beans.


That's the case with everyone. Nothing special about IBS in this regard.


> quote:Then i think the bacterias are reproducing exponentielly


A lot of bacteria are flushed out in stool. So the population is cycling somewhat.


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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

BURPING IS A TECHNIC TO RELEASE TRAPPED GAS IN THE BELLY.Lay down on your left side and burp the most you can .Gas will immediatly move in the bowel.I HAVE A LIL BOOK ON THIS.THE AUTHOR IS WORKING ON A NEW BOOK.I WILL LET YOU KNOW IF THERE IS A ENGLISH VERSION.


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## 13540 (Aug 18, 2005)

stress and axiety can cause alot of gas!!!And i have talked to four diffrent gi docs and gas is part of ibs is what they say all four of them!!


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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

Forrest,stress do not cause constipation or gas.THe only stress who has any impact is waiting too long to urinate or to have a BM.Eg.:Even if i don't do anything,i still have IBS.I'm not expert in IBS-D however...


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## 15451 (Mar 4, 2006)

I dunno . . . I don't think I have more gas than others, necessarily, but what I do know is that my gas seems to get trapped in my gut - and it's very, very painful. If I try to take Gas X, for instance, instead of passing the gas, I can feel my gut bloating and building up, but I can't move it. I stay away from the stuff - it makes me miserable!


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:stress and axiety can cause alot of gas!!!


Totally false.


> quote:And i have talked to four diffrent gi docs and gas is part of ibs is what they say all four of them!!


Gas is part of being human. IBS doesn't change this.


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## 13540 (Aug 18, 2005)

well i was treated for c-diff with flaygl and i still have bad gas and still have normal stool studys and biopys i didnt start having this much gas tell i started having bowell problems and you say ibs doesnt cause gas and nerves dont make more gas?So it must be food then?


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## 13540 (Aug 18, 2005)

http://www.gicare.com/pated/ecdgs06.htm well this site say alot it says by food i think i think may be me taking all that flaygle killed all my good flora but i took it about six months ago


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

After you kill off the flora you recolonize quickly but with whatever bacteria you happen to be colonized with.Some bacteria produce more gas than others so gas production can vary over time, and I think that when you kill off the bacteria (which usually has to happen for C. diff to grow well in the GI tract) you could recolonize with gassier bacteria than you had. Some people find probiotics helps with this.K.


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## 13540 (Aug 18, 2005)

well this then makes me kinda lost becasue all the gi doc i have talked to say gas and ibs go hand in hand i wasnt much of a gassy type of person tell may and with my bowell problems


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

It is more that gas can set off IBS symptoms, not that the gas has to be more than it was before.Even if you do not fart even one time more per day now than you did before you may not tolerate the exact same amount of gas you pre-IBS tolerated just fine.I was above normal fart frequency before IBS, and it stayed the same during IBS and when the IBS went away I still farted the same way. But the gas was more of a problem when the IBS was bad.K.


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## 13540 (Aug 18, 2005)

ic i will have to go over this with my gi doc next week about the gas because i have alot more gas then i have ever had since this all started with my bowell problems that have gotten worse since may!!See with my so cald ibs i have i only get cramping and mild pain right after waking then only have maby one two bowell movments in the morning then iam done but as the day goes on as i eat i bloated and then get upper right side pain then goes away at night then as of waking in the morning the bloating is gone i do see the more i eat the more my stomach gets bloated and if i dont eat i dont get the nausea and no matter what i eat my stools are always yellow are yellow brown i havnt seen a brown stool in months if i eat a lean piece of meat it will get a little darker yellow but never a dark brown but my gi doc is 100% sure my liver and gallbladder is just fine and it isnt my problem but i have a second opion next week just for a piece of mind i know its going to upset my gi doc that has put alot of time and test in with me and i know i should trust him with his dx of ibs but its hard since i havnt had any changes are filling any better since may..


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## 13540 (Aug 18, 2005)

as well my wife says when i sleep at night she has to hit me somtimes to make me take a breath she says i hold my breath alot while sleeping kinda crazy i never new i did that..


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Sleep apnea is a separate issue from the IBS, but the stress from not sleeping well may make the IBS worse. You should have a sleep study done and if you have apnea get it treated as overtime it is hard on your heart and other organs and is not good for you.The amount of bloating and pain are not good measures of how much gas you have.If you put a balloon inside an IBSer and a normal person and inflate the balloon to simulate the colon getting filled up people with IBS get symptoms at amounts of gas in the balloon that do not bother normal people. (this happens with most IBSers, enough so that when I did a clinical trial for IBS they did this test to see how well people did before and after treatment)The only measure that really tells you that you actually have more gas is how many times a day you fart. IBSers can have symptoms from below normal volumes of gas.Now being on antibiotics and getting a different set of bacteria in the colon may have changed the number of times a day you fart. The IBS is probably from the inflamation from the infections you had that made you need to take antibiotics, not just from what volume of gas you have now vs then. IBSers have symptoms at volumes of gas that do not bother normal people.Did that make any sense?K.


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## 13471 (Feb 16, 2006)

What you said about antibiotics is interesting because when I started this thread I was on antibiotics because of a urine tract infection , thats when I noticed the excess gas and gas pains in my abdomen , I'm fine ever since.Sounds like you hit the nail on the head Kathleen.


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## Arnie W (Oct 22, 2003)

The subject of whether IBSers produce more gas than other people gets discussed quite extensively here. I am willing to accept that maybe this is accurate, but would suggest that IBSers PASS more gas. I certainly can pass what should be my daily allotment (on the law of averages) within a few minutes, especially if I've eaten certain food.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:subject of whether IBSers produce more gas than other people gets discussed quite extensively here. I am willing to accept that maybe this is accurate, but would suggest that IBSers PASS more gas.


This two statements are wholly contradictory. IBSers do not have more gas, so it's physically impossible that they could pass more.


> quoteon the law of averages)


No such "law" exists.


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## phillipm2 (Sep 24, 2004)

Law of Averages:http://ca.encarta.msn.com/dictionary_18616...f_averages.htmlhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_averagesI would assume in this case it would mean a ratio from people with constipation to people with diarrhea. Whereas average people dont go all the time but they still go and can hold their gas in.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:I would assume in this case it would mean a ratio from people with constipation to people with diarrhea. Whereas average people dont go all the time but they still go and can hold their gas in.


The post is about gas volume. Gas volume is the same in IBSers and non-IBSers, so there is no difference in how much they each pass. That's not the "law of averages", it is just simple math.


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## Arnie W (Oct 22, 2003)

You of all people, flux, must know that the AVERAGE person passes gas approximately 14 times a day. I can pass my 'gas allotment' well within that time span and several times more at that. So where do you have a problem? And do you know what it is like to be afflicted with gas so bad that it makes you want to become a social leper?And, let's face it, not everyone has a problem with baked beans. I work in an institution where we serve baked beans a couple of times a week, and, at those times, I can't say I've noticed any consequences, and I think you will know what I mean by that.


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## 13540 (Aug 18, 2005)

well before my bowell problems i would say i was below average then and now since my bowell problems iam above average so this must mean my gi docs are wrong i have something else other then ibs..Because my gi docs say more gas is a sighn of ibs and all four that i have talk to say the same thing


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:must know that the AVERAGE person passes gas approximately 14 times a day.


Regardless of whether IBS is present or not.


> quote:iam above average so this must mean my gi docs are wrong i have something else other then ibs.


What is above average? 15? 140?


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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

> quote:What is above average? 15? 140?


The volume is also important.I fart 20-30 timessometime big one.


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## Arnie W (Oct 22, 2003)

As flux believes that IBSers cannot get excessive gas, I guess there's no point in carrying on with the thread. I think you are just baiting me, because you show no attempt to try to understand what I write. You take extracts out of context to 'prove' your case.I pass a lot more gas than I should, according to what the average statisitcs suggest. Whether or not it is IBS, why can't you just take what I say at face value. If I waver from a very strict diet I get so much rumbling in my gut, which I have to expel to get some relief.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:The volume is also important


You are right about that. It would be difficult for a person to estimate volume per pass.


> quote:and several times more at that.


Hmm, I guess this statement could be interpreted in two ways.1) Several additional instances, such as 5 more, for a total of 19, which is clearly normal in a space of 18 hours.or 2) Several TIMES more, which could mean 5 TIMES more or 5 * 14, which is 70, which would clearly be abnormal in a space of 18 hours.


> quote:I pass a lot more gas than I should, according to what the average statisitcs suggest


I had assumed it was the first one, but I guess Ihad it wrong and you meant the second option. If so, then you have something else other than IBS going on.


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## 14473 (Mar 20, 2006)

hi guysInteresting topic that I must participate in.Gas is probably the only major issue that stops me enjoying life. It is also socially self destructive. When you have lots of gas you actually feel sick! wether you are passing it or not.Gas is a byproduct from bacterial fermentation. This can be a problem if (1) you eat too much easily fermentable foods such as cabbage etc. And (2) wether you have bacterial overgrowth. I am very very convised that my excessive gassy horribhle feeling was caused by bacteria BECAUSE after a script of neomycin which kills the methane producing bacteria I felt great. Unfortunately it only lasted a couple of weeks though.Who cares about quanitfying volume etc - if you have to basically run to the toilet to let of basically what sounds like a gas valve then GAS has to be in greater amounts then pre IBS!Mark


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:This can be a problem ...And (2) wether you have bacterial overgrowth.


No, bacterial overgrowth doesn't alter total gas volume. It's too small in relation to what's normally produced in the colon


> quote:if you have to basically run to the toilet to let of basically what sounds like a gas valve then GAS has to be in greater amounts then pre IBS!


But almost nobody seems to have that problem.


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## 14473 (Mar 20, 2006)

ok flux, you seem very very convinced on this issue. Firstly I think we all know that people with IBS have different symptoms so I think there is no real norm when it comes to gas. I also think that is it possible that people with IBS may be more sensitive to anything going on in the bowels and this includes gas. So I can see both sides of the argument. I am not sure about your quote:-----------------------------------------No, bacterial overgrowth doesn't alter total gas volume. It's too small in relation to what's normally produced in the colon---------------------------------------------If you have an overgrowth or a preference for your normal flora to colonise a particular bacterial species such as a methane producing bacteria then you will have more gas (it is as simple as that). Your quote:------------------------------But almost nobody seems to have that problem-----------------------------------Well I can have that problem and I reckon by the response to this thread that others have as well. If not then POOR me.Cheers


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:I think we all know that people with IBS have different symptoms


No, IBSers have the *same* symptoms. That's how it gets to be called in IBS in the first place.


> quote:If you have an overgrowth or a preference for your normal flora to colonise a particular bacterial species such as a methane producing bacteria then you will have more gas


There is no preference in SIBO. Methane-producing bacteria are never involved in SIBO.


> quote:Well I can have that problem and I reckon by the response to this thread that others have as well. If not then POOR me.


In this thread, I count 0 so far (and I included you).


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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

Add me to the count:1It's not normal to be waken up by gas early in the morning.And then pass 10 wind before breakfast.No matter what Flux,i seem to pass too much like many of our friends here.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:It's not normal to be waken up by gas early in the morning.And then pass 10 wind before breakfast.


Perhaps. Depends on the rest of the day.


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## 14473 (Mar 20, 2006)

Believe me (count me as 1) spasm dude as 2 and I am sure it would go on. I think this linequote-----------------------In this thread, I count 0 so far (and I included you).------------------------is a little disrespectfull to me. I am pretty sure I would know my symptoms better than you or any doctor for that matter.Also Just by reading the millions of threads here you would see that the symptoms of IBS differ so dramatically. This is becasue the cause of IBS has not been defined yet and therefore there could be a huge amount of triggers leading to a range of symptoms - D, C, wind, pain, nausea etc etc. Why do you think some people find help with vastly different medications and alternate therapies? Because we are all different.Cheers


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:I am pretty sure I would know my symptoms better than you or any doctor for that matter.


The count is at 0 on this thread because there isn't enough hard data presented here to say it's not. If someone were to present data to say otherwise, then the count could change.In all fairness, there have been people posting here over the years to make what appear as reasonable claims of excess gas, but how many has that been, perhaps two dozen? That makes it sound really, really rare.


> quote:Also Just by reading the millions of threads here you would see that the symptoms of IBS differ so dramatically.


That's because many of them don't have IBS. You have IBS only if you meet Rome criteria. We don't know what percentage of people who are posting meet those criteria. There are many other overlapping syndromes and diseases.


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## moms777 (Jan 29, 2000)

I'm one of "those" people with a huge amount of gas. Sometimes it is worse than other times. Last night it was so bad that I wouldn't even get into bed until I was sure my husband was asleep because it was so embarrassing. I was passing gas every few minutes and it lasted for several hours. I tried eating something new yesterday and obviously it didn't agree with me


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:I was passing gas every few minutes and it lasted for several hours.


Day in, day out, this would definitely count, but as a one-time event, then it really can't. Even people in the normal range may have a "lot" if they consume a lot of a gas-producing food.


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## hope* (Aug 1, 2005)

I couldnt understand why i was getting alot of gas on certain days, then i discovered on those days i had eaten my Alpro Soya yogurt.Question does soya produce more gas in people with ibs, i love those yogurts because i dont eat any dairy.


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## moms777 (Jan 29, 2000)

"a one-time event"? I wish


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Soy like any bean can have sugars in it that make anyone gassy.There are no foods that make IBSers gassy that do not also do the same thing in normal people. Now you may notice that X makes you gassy more now than you did before IBS.K.


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## 13540 (Aug 18, 2005)

well its kinda funny in liver dease and gallbladder dease makes more gas happen but since of may my gas has been alot more since they dx me with ibs


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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

> quote:in liver dease and gallbladder dease makes more gas happen


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:"a one-time event"? I wish


1.


> quote:


Ditto.


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## hope* (Aug 1, 2005)

Thankyou kathleen


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## Arnie W (Oct 22, 2003)

I obviously add myself to the list of excessive gassers.Flux, I agree with you on two things.1) It is probably not IBS, but it is a convenient label for doctors who cannot find another diagnosis and who don't think it is a serious condition - 'learn to live with it'.2) It is rare......but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There are some syndromes, as you know, which affect only 1 or 2 people in a very large city. There would probably be at least 50 people on this board over the years who claim to have been debilitated by excessive gas. There are probably thousands of others who don't have internet facilities or who haven't discovered the board.I started a thread on the Gas forum some months ago to query whether posters were aware of other people who passed excessive odorous gas. I mentioned 2 guys from my youth (before gas became a worry for me) who nearly always were (silently) passing gas.


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## 19700 (Nov 16, 2005)

add me to the list! boy, i never thought i'd be in the "cool kids" group for farting. crazy. i don't believe i have IBS either, but that's what my doctor likes to call it. i have no idea what i have. but my belly is bloated almost every day and I have gas all day long, which gets progressively worse and is almost unbearable by evening, and sometimes I, too, avoid my spouse because i am worried about being stinky. it totally sucks. let's stop arguing about whether or not gas is IBS-related and start talking about things that might help the problem. Anyone?


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## Arnie W (Oct 22, 2003)

I agree with your last sentence too, mourningcarbs, and was going to say basically the same thing in my previous post, but didn't have the time because I was going out. Arguing whether or not it is IBS is not helpful and just detracts from trying to find a solution. It is just that IBS bulletin boards are probably the most appropriate forums in which to air our opinions.Hey and we are cool, very cool, in fact......I think.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:There would probably be at least 50 people on this board over the years who claim to have been debilitated by excessive gas.


Oh, there have been a few hundred for sure. But *most* of them are normal. Merely claiming one has a lot isn't the same as actually having it.


> quote:There are probably thousands of others who don't have internet facilities or who haven't discovered the board.


One thing that puzzles me though is how is it there are just *two* cases reports in the entire world medical literature over the last 150 years. Where are all those suffers hiding out?


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## Arnie W (Oct 22, 2003)

I really don't know how you can pointblank say that all these people are in fact deluding themselves - that the gas which disrupts their lives is just a fantasy. I don't know how to scream in internet lingo, but that's what I feel like doing at the moment, because you cannot empathise with those who claim to have their lives disrupted because of gas. I have a friend at work who claims to have a virtually permanent feeling of pain around his abdominal area, extending to his back. He has been to all the experts who cannot find anything to identify or assist with the pain. But I believe him - and I wish that you could believe us.Lead me to someone who can identify excess gas, and maybe I'll be Number 3.Despite all this, I believe that you might well be someone who could provide some direction and assistance, so why not pretend that we do indeed have a problem and think of what you might suggest to deal with it.I'm going to a therapist at present about my gas and we had a very interesting discussion last time, when he told me about a friend of his who used to pass a lot of smelly gas. I hope to question him more during my next appointment about whether he knows how this started and what was done to help control it.


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## 13540 (Aug 18, 2005)

hey all i know is since of may when i started to have bowell problems my gas has really gotten bad i use to never fart that much like i do now its a everyday thing with me now somtimes i have to hit the toilet just to be safe not to go in my pants and this has really put a tamper on my life having ibs-d is what my gi doc says and all four that i have seen say ibs and gas go hand in hand as well my gi doc is one of the best in his field in my state 16 years on med school also works with liver deases as well i will put this in mind when i see him on monday about gas and ibs and what causes it to happen are to be more harder on people with ibs i have told him about this forum and he has came here and looked at some of the posts and he told me there is alot of people here not knowing much because of the out look of how many people that gi doctors see in the long run he says that is why he has done 16 years in his field and he see thing that us ibs dont on a everyday basis.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:I really don't know how you can pointblank say that all these people are in fact deluding themselves - that the gas which disrupts their lives is just a fantasy.


Since they don't have (excess) gas, then *that* is not disrupting their lives. That doesn't mean their lives aren't being disrupted, only (excess) gas isn't the cause.


> quote:But I believe him - and I wish that you could believe us.


Who is us? Merely claiming one has excess gas is not evidence.


> quote:Lead me to someone who can identify excess gas, and maybe I'll be Number 3.


I once posted criteria for excess gas:1) The most significant symptom would frequent passing of gas, > 50 times every day.2) Stools would float and effervesce.3) Waking up at night to pass gas.


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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

I think i meet these criterias.


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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

Usually those who suffer the most are more likely to visit foruum.So i would say that many of us have too much gas.


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## 20327 (Jun 5, 2005)

I have been gone awhile, but my main symptom on a daily basis is gas. I assume 2 causes from experience:1. I eat a lot of high carb soluble and non-soluble food per the "Heather" diet. I love toasted sour dough bread, and have it every single day with lunch and dinner. I develop gas about dinner time (which is when I may be processing lunch in the large colon) and then dinner gas seems to hit me in bed at times. One day I counted farting 145 times. I would NOT consider that normal. If all I have is bread, it is relatively odorless, but if I have chicken (another food known to cause gas) then it has that aroma too. I never eat red meat. 2. If I am tense about something, the gas gets much worse, such as working in an office doing something with a time limit on it, when I feel under duress. My feeling is that perhaps this sets my intestines into a "fast" processing sequence so that more food is rushed through the small intestine unprocessed, leaving the processing to the large intestine, where gas then results. With all due respect, I do not read Flux's posts because I find them rude and in constant denial of what people in pain are actually experiencing. He/She still seems to go into a forum and have others dancing around trying to make sense of the comments. I ignore their dogmatic texture because I don't need that in my life too yet!


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:One day I counted farting 145 times. I would NOT consider that normal.


2.


> quote:2. If I am tense about something, the gas gets much worse, such as working in an office doing something with a time limit on it, when I feel under duress. My feeling is that perhaps this sets my intestines into a "fast" processing sequence so that more food is rushed through the small intestine unprocessed, leaving the processing to the large intestine, where gas then results.


That's now how it works. If you had food "rushed" from the stomach into the intestines, you'd get very sick very fast because a high volume of sugar would get absorbed sending you blood sugar into a tidal wave. If you had food "rushed" across the small bowel, there'd be a boatload of liquid along with bile acids being sent into the large bowel, and you'd have massive diarrhea.


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## Arnie W (Oct 22, 2003)

Flux has mentioned this two person theory before, but I cannot recall seeing a link to confirm this 'evidence'.I find that Heather's diet is not helpful for curbing gas. I avoid most of the known gas offenders, but eat a lot of chicken. I didn't think that it caused gas, though it probably contributes significantly to the odor. I have been seduced by the low starch route, but I don't really know if I can say that it cuts back on the gas, though it results for me in fewer bms and less intestinal rumbling.Healthwise, I was interested in your comments about the sourdough bread. Gas is almost invariably not a problem for me apart from the odor, so, even thought it goes against my conceived beliefs, maybe if I lived on a diet of soluble fibre, I might still get the gas but without the odor and that would indeed be a blessing.


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## 20327 (Jun 5, 2005)

Arnie,Bear in mind, that I eat the Heather Diet because I used to suffer from a lot of "D" and "C" so I was an IBS-A type person. I needed help to curb the "D" episodes because they were so horrible. Heather's diet helps stabilize the system so that the extremes of "D" and "C" are gone. So I eat this diet only to prevent "D" most predominantly.I consider gas a byproduct (somewhat, not totally) of the diet. I've always had gas, but find that since I am eating fiber pills, and eating a lot of soluble fiber, it seems worse. So I would NOT recommend the diet for someone whose only complaint it gas. Sour dough bread is recommended by Heather because it coats the intestinal walls, and acts therefore as a lubricant to inflate the walls (so they don't spasm so much) and as a buffer when eating the rest of the meal. I eat sour dough bread first! Ever wonder why nice restaurants start you off with bread? It isn't so you'll get full and only order coffee! It is a very traditional thing that shows that cultures have known that WHITE bread can have a soothing effect on the colon before a meal. I always eat a salad LAST, like Europeans. The only remedy I recall from Heather for gas is Fennel tea. She sells this stuff. She also sells a peppermint capsule that also contains Fennel.Know what works best for me? BENTYL. Bentyl is prescribed for abdomenal pain, but for me it has a side effect of stopping a lot of gas. I think it does this by reducing the spasms that may move food along too quickly through the small intestine, so it ends up in the large intestine where gas is produced. I realize Flux has proclaimed that IBS does not produce spasms, but happily the rest of the world agrees that IBS does indeed create spasms in the colon. In fact, I had a colonoscopy where the doctor watched my colon spasm, and gave me a word by word description of it while I was scrunched over in pain.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:Flux has mentioned this two person theory before, but I cannot recall seeing a link to confirm this 'evidence'.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...l=pubmed_DocSumhttp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...l=pubmed_docsum


> quote:but for me it has a side effect of stopping a lot of gas. I think it does this by reducing the spasms that may move food along too quickly through the small intestine, so it ends up in the large intestine where gas is produced.


Moving food too fast through the small bowel to affect absorption would result in massive fluid overload into large bowel and you'd have major steatorrhea. The only situation where this occurs are in people who have short-bowel syndrome and there the effect is because the small bowel is too short not because transit is too fast. There is no known condition that has that effect.IBSers have normal small bowel transit of food, by the way.


> quote:I had a colonoscopy where the doctor watched my colon spasm


Muscle contraction in the colon is 100% normal and happens to everyone's colons all day long and has *nothing* to do with "spasms".


> quote:while I was scrunched over in pain.


That part is not and is caused by IBS.


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## Arnie W (Oct 22, 2003)

I can't open the first link. Maybe you could cut and paste the pertinent passage. As for swallowed air, I don't know if that completely applies to me. If I eat certain (especially sulfur-producing) food, my gas gets really nasty, both in frequency and odor.Thanks for the extra info, Healthwise. I've always thought that salads should be eaten first to aid digeation. Perhaps I'd better try having them at the end of the meal. I have been drinking fennel teas lately. I just infuse seeds I buy from the health store.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:I can't open the first link


I don't know why you can open it. It doesn't have an abstract though. But there was a followup study done on that patient.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...l=pubmed_DocSum


> quote:If I eat certain (especially sulfur-producing) food, my gas gets really nasty, both in frequency and odor.


Odor has *nothing* to do with the source of a person's gas volume.


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## Arnie W (Oct 22, 2003)

I can't find anything in that passage to support your claim.Did I say that volume and odor were associated? No. So why bring it up?


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:I can't find anything in that passage to support your claim.


The claim of what, that there have only been two people reported in the world with excess gas? The contents of the reports themselves have nothing to do with the count. For that, just count them. Do you count more than two?


> quoteid I say that volume and odor were associated? No. So why bring it up?


Yes..


> quote:As for swallowed air, I don't know if that completely applies to me. If I eat certain (especially sulfur-producing) food, my gas gets really nasty, both in frequency and odor.


That implies a sulfur-producing food affect gas volume, but it does not.


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## Arnie W (Oct 22, 2003)

I've read your quotes, counted to 10 and now I've calmed down. And I've decided that, bored as I am at the moment, there's probably not any point in replying because what I say will be misinterpreted. Perhaps I'll think differently later on.


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## 14473 (Mar 20, 2006)

Hi guysArnie , maybe you need to count to 100!Flux those two articles - are they just on one patient???? You obviously use all your so-called criteria for excessive gas producers on this research paper. Wake up smell the cheese, listen and read other peoples opinions. That guy may have had big issues with swallowing two much air while eating or something as simple as that. Other people gas problems may be caused by other mechanisms You are right in saying that there is some evidence that gas volume is the same in IBS patients then healthy controls but that is definitely not the end of the story. There is continued research into why IBS patients suggest that they have more gas. It is a common complaint and there must be some reason behind it. It is not all about volume of gas, it could be about how gas transits, where it deposits etc, how slowly it passes. Below is an abstract of a research article that I found quite interesting.IBS patients without a doubt retain gas with the experimental procedure?? WHY? and the healthy controls did not. This sort of research adds evidence that people with IBS can have an altered gas retention â€“ transit system. There has to be something going on â€¦. Hopefully one day we will know.Cheers Gastroenterology Volume 122, Issue 7 , June 2002, Pages 1748-1755 Copyright Â© 2002 The American Gastroenterological Association. Published by Elsevier Science (USA). Clinical Research Prokinetic effects in patients with intestinal gas retention*1 Maria PÃ­a Caldarella, Jordi Serra, Fernando Azpiroz and Juanâ€“Ramon Malagelada Digestive System Research Unit, University Hospital Vall d'Hebron, Autonomous University of Barcelona, Barcelona, Spain Received 18 October 2001. Available online 11 July 2002. AbstractBackground & Aims: We have previously shown that patients with irritable bowel syndrome (IBS) have impaired transit of intestinal gas loads. Because abnormal gas retention can be experimentally reproduced in healthy subjects by pharmacological inhibition of gut motility, we hypothesized that impaired gas transit and retention can be reciprocally corrected by pharmacologically stimulating intestinal propulsion. Methods: In 28 patients with abdominal bloating (14 IBS, 14 functional bloating) and in 14 healthy subjects, gas evacuation and perception of jejunal gas infusion (12 mL/min) were measured. After 2 hours, in 20 patients we tested the effect of intravenous neostigmine (0.5 mg) vs. intravenous saline administered blindly and randomly at a 1-hour interval. Results: After 2 hours of gas infusion, patients with IBS and functional bloating alike exhibited significant gas retention (418 Â± 86 mL), abdominal symptoms (2.7 Â± 0.5 score), and objective distention (8 Â± 2 mm girth increment), in contrast to healthy controls, who experienced none (46 Â± 102 mL retention, 0.4 Â± 0.3 symptom score, and 3 Â± 1 mm distention; P < 0.05 for all). Neostigmine produced immediate clearance of gas retained within the gut (603 Â± 53 mL/30 minutes vs. 273 Â± 59 mL/30 minutes after saline; P < 0.05) and by 1 hour reduced gas retention (by 373 Â± 57 mL), abdominal symptoms (by 1.1 Â± 0.5 score), and distention (by 6 Â± 1 mm; P < 0.05 for all), whereas intravenous saline produced no effects. Conclusions: In patients with intestinal gas retention, pharmacological stimulation of intestinal propulsion improves gas transit, abdominal symptoms, and distention.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:those two articles - are they just on one patient????


Two. That's the point. There are the only two reports worldwide across 150 years of reporting.


> quote:Below is an abstract of a research article that I found quite interesting.


The research by Malagelada's group in Barcelona is very well known and respected, but what's its relevance to people with excess gas? He is studying IBSers, not people with an excess gas problem.


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## 14473 (Mar 20, 2006)

quote--------------------------The research by Malagelada's group in Barcelona is very well known and respected, but what's its relevance to people with excess gas? He is studying IBSers, not people with an excess gas problem.-----------------------------They chose people for this STUDY who had predominant bloating problems (14 IBSes). The study was a follow up on results that showed that IBS patients have an impaired clearance of intestinal gas loads. It was a gas related experiment.They chose to perform the experiments during duodenal infusion of fat so that they could mimic real life - ie most patients reported gas symptoms after meals.It is so obviously a common complaint. If this sort of research is correct then maybe some IBS petients just have an impaired retention of gas. Maybe normal people can unknowingly release gas throughout the day and we IBS have to try and therefore we know about it and complain about it. Might have nothing to do with gas volume at all! The researchers till do not know why there is impaired transit of gas .......Hope they find out soonMark In that study there were 14 people with abdominal bloating presumably because they are people who retain gas as the study suggested. I really don't understand this 2 business ..


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:It is so obviously a common complaint. If this sort of research is correct then maybe some IBS petients just have an impaired retention of gas.


They do. That's what their research established for a while now.


> quote:Maybe normal people can unknowingly release gas throughout the day


Normal people don't have much gas, but they do release it without thinking about.


> quote:Might have nothing to do with gas volume at all!


It doesn't.


> quote:I really don't understand this 2 business ..


Arnie posted that there could be thousands of people out there with excess gas. I pointed out that thought it was odd of all these thousands of people, the medical community has only managed to managed to document 2 of them over the last 150 years.


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## moms777 (Jan 29, 2000)

Maybe there are only "two documented cases" because doctors don't take us seriously. When I told the gastro specialist that I had excessive gas-he just laughed. I'm sure there are thousands of people out there that have this problem too, but since there is no cure we keep a low profile.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:because doctors don't take us seriously. When I told the gastro specialist that I had excessive gas-he just laughed


The doctor who reported those two cases does take patients seriously and studies mainly intestinal gas. It's hard to believe only two patients of these thousands got his attention in all the time he has been practicing (almost 40 years).


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## 13540 (Aug 18, 2005)

i know my wife passes gas more then me and she doesnt have ibs!!!


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## 17417 (Dec 7, 2005)

i dont really understand if flux is a sufferer of IBS or is on these boards to tell us that what we physically feel on a daily basis is actually a figment of our imagination. i dont think we need a doctor on here telling us what we do and dont not feel/have as we have already experienced this with our own specialists and doctors. i realize that flux is not a doctor...so why act like one. it is possible to produce the same ammount of gas as "normal" people but IBSers may PASS more of that gas and therefore experience disruptions in their lives. i dont really understand if flux is trying to help us or trying to basically make fun of us for what we think. at least we all can tell by now that flux doesnt have a problem with passing excessive amounts of gas daily or he would likely be more sympathetic. which makes me wonder why he is on this thread anyways?!


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:it is possible to produce the same ammount of gas as "normal" people but IBSers may PASS more of that gas


No, this is not possible.


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## 16841 (Sep 20, 2005)

Miss Lou: it's nice that you see that it is the opinion of Flux that he is the almighty.







No need for worry because the rest of us know the truth.


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## 16608 (Mar 30, 2006)

Hi everyone...I'm new to this forum but not new to IBS which I've had all my adult life. I know we all have different symptoms and obviously, those who are replying here, related to the subject of "gas."In reading these posts and replies, clearly Flux has the ability and the seeming need to stir the pot, as it were, and deny what everyone's reality here is. In spite of individuals replying to his every post, and stridently insisting that our symptoms are real (we know they're real!), he continues to remains coolly aloof and point out systematically (#1, #2, etc) how everyone else is "wrong." Does this remind anyone of the medical profession?!My gentle suggestion as a new group member would be not to reply to him and give him the power to upset you. We all KNOW our symptoms and KNOW our problematic and painful and smelly gas is REAL and intrusive on our lives. Personally, I don't care what Flux has to say about MY gas. Why should I? If he doesn't have it, I'm glad (but, wonder why he's posting here?); however, I do not allow him to deny my reality. Let's just talk amongst ourselves, since apparently Flux doesn't have anything helpful to say, but has taken up a lot of these pages of posts, and alot of all of your energy!


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