# Is it the probiotic we're looking for?!?



## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

-PUBLISH TODAY-BREAKING NEWS-Specific Lactobacillus acidophilus modulates intestinal pain and induces opioid and cannabinoid receptors:http://www.nature.com/nm/journal/vaop/ncur...abs/nm1521.html Abdominal pain is common in the general population and, in patients with irritable bowel syndrome, is attributed to visceral hypersensitivity. We found that oral administration of specific Lactobacillus strains induced the expression of -opioid and cannabinoid receptors in intestinal epithelial cells, and mediated analgesic functions in the gutâ€"similar to the effects of morphine. These results suggest that the microbiology of the intestinal tract influences our visceral perception, and suggest new approaches for the treament of abdominal pain and irritable bowel syndrome.


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## Mary:::))) (Oct 23, 2006)

Does this mean they are coming closer to finally helping us SpAsMaN? I was a little confused by the medical terminology...Mary::







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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

I dunno,i've just sent an e-mail in France.


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## Nanobug (Nov 7, 2006)

> quote:Specific Lactobacillus acidophilus modulates intestinal pain...


Does anyone have access to the full article? If yes, what specific strain are they using?


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

I may be able to get into it from work. I'll check tomarrow.K.


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Its important to note here that this was done on lab rats and it maybe a while before they figure it out with humans. Although they have similar digestive systems.That is a very common bacteria found in yogurt also and we know a lot of people try yogurt for IBS and probiotics and we haven't seen a lot of people saying their pain is gone.However some probiotic research point to them helping pain and bloating so that maybe one reason they help.I personally don't think this will be a "cure" but a maintenence issue.It is interesting though. I wonder who funded the study?


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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

The first trial have been done on 150 IBSers in USA in July.I haven't much details for now.


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Spasman send me an email I have something else to send you.Also, I beleive no matter what the mechanism for viceral hypersensivity, which they haven't figured out completely yet and If I have it correct, has to involve serotonin, because its the neurotransmitter for sensations coming from the gut to the brain.


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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

Eric,my e-mail is in my signature.Go ahead.


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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

Here the company who sell the product:www.danisco.comResearch(SBBO(SIBO),IBS,IBD):http://www.danisco.com/cms/resources/file/...rsion230905.pdf


> quote:L. acidophilus NCFMÂ® has been commerciallyavailable on the North American market for over 30 years and internationallyfor over 15 years.In recent decades the significant research studies on L. acidophilus NCFMÂ® have provided insight into the strainâ€™s probiotic functionality.Over 75 publications, more than 20 of which refer to human studies, in.......


Genome sequencing:http://www.foodnavigator-usa.com/news/ng.a...42&m=1FNUD05&c=


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Here are the strains they tested.


> quote:We first evaluated the ability of five well known and representative probiotic bacteria belonging to the Lactobacillus and Bifidobacterium genera (L. acidophilus NCFM, L. salivarius Ls-33, L. paracasei Lpc-37, B. lactis Bi-07 and B. lactis Bl-04), compared to commensal and adherent-invasive (LF82) Escherichia coli, to induce the expression of analgesic receptors.


They looked at the receptors in isolated human cells, and did most of the whole body experiments in rats.The NCFM strain is the one that showed promise.K.


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

I can take a more indepth look at this later, just want to remind everyone that no individual treatment is likely to work for every single person, and results that you see in animals or isolated cells do not always pan out in intact human beings.K.


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Eric, here is the financial stuff from the article.


> quote:Lactobacillus acidophilus modulates intestinal pain and induces opioid and cannabinoid receptorsChristel Rousseaux, Xavier Thuru, Agathe Gelot, Nicolas Barnich, Christel Neut, Laurent Dubuquoy, Caroline Dubuquoy, Emilie Merour, Karen Geboes, Mathias Chamaillard, Arthur Ouwehand, Greg Leyer, Didier Carcano, Jean-FrÃ©dÃ©ric Colombel, Denis Ardid & Pierre Desreumaux Declaration: P.D. has received funding for research and clinical studies on probiotics and prebiotics from Danisco, Sanofi-Aventis, Syndifrais, Roquette and Lesaffre, and has also received consultation fees from Danisco, Danone and Roquette. In addition, P.D. is an inventor of patents filed by Danisco.C.N. has received funding for research studies from Danone and Roquette.D.C., A.O. and G.L. are employed by Danisco, which produces and markets the NCFM strain.


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## Nanobug (Nov 7, 2006)

Kathleen and SpAsMaN*,Thanks for all the info provided. This strain is readily available which means it can actually be tested by people with pain. I'm going to buy it and test it to see what kind of reaction I get to it.Nanobug


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## Mary:::))) (Oct 23, 2006)

Wow....that would be so cool if it could help people.....I have UC but I wonder if it could help me??????? You guys are the researchers and you get an A++++++++++!!!!!Mary::







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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

I saw it in the local newspapers.I hope it works...really.


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## Nanobug (Nov 7, 2006)

> quote:I have UC but I wonder if it could help me???????


It's hard to tell unless you actually try it, however, given that:1) Hydrogen sulfide appears to exacerbate Ulcerative Colitis; and,2) Lactobacilli appear to increase the production of hydrogen sulfide,I'd be cautious!


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## Mary:::))) (Oct 23, 2006)

Thanks Nanobug.......I am going to research hydrogen sulfide......I tried to take my probiotics because everyone was saying how great they are but I agree with you and maybe it aggrivates my condition somehow....I haven't seen a lot of info on UC but I am getting both books for Christmas....UC the first year and listen to your gut!!!Mary::







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## Mary:::))) (Oct 23, 2006)

Wow....hydrogen sulfide is like sewer gas.....I don't have that and I wouldn't want it....If that does that to me no way.....Mary::







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## Nanobug (Nov 7, 2006)

> quote:hydrogen sulfide is like sewer gas.....I don't have that


I'm sorry to tell you but we all do!







But take a look at the conclusion in the study entitled "5-Amino-2-hydroxybenzoic acid 4-(5-thioxo-5H-[1,2]dithiol-3yl)-phenyl ester (ATB-429), a hydrogen sulfide-releasing derivative of mesalamine, exerts antinociceptive effects in a model of postinflammatory hypersensitivity.":"This study provides evidence that H(2)S-releasing drugs might have beneficial effects in the treatment of painful intestinal disorders."Basically, this study suggests that hydrogen sulfide might indeed act as an analgesic!


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## Nanobug (Nov 7, 2006)

> quote:I tried to take my probiotics because everyone was saying how great they are but I agree with you and maybe it aggrivates my condition somehow


To my knowledge, bifidobacteria are harmless for people with UC so you might stick with those instead of lactobacilli. Or, if you take lactobacilli, take some fructo-oligo-saccharides (FOS) as this one appears to inhibit lactobacilli-induced production of hydrogen sulfide."Oligofructose causes a reduction in faecal hydrogen sulphide, and an increase in SCFA concentrations may thus have a therapeutic role in patients with ulcerative colitis"The bifidobacteria product that I take is Jarrow's Bifidus Balanace + FOS


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

One thing to remember whenever you introduce something added into a complex biological system like a human body if you look long enough and hard enough you will find both potential benefits and potential risks.It's bad enough with single compounds like a vitamin or drug. It gets even more complicated when you start talking a food or a living organism. I remember working on a diet study on cabbage family vegetables for cancer prevention and in the diet and cabbage literature there is a lot of maybe it is good for cancer but also some maybe people shouldn't eat so much because of thyroid issues. Now it seems to wash out that the potential benefits much outweight the potential risks but you will find that with anything that has enough studies on it.For instance this paper: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...l=pubmed_DocSumK.


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## Nanobug (Nov 7, 2006)

> quote:For instance this paper:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...l=pubmed_DocSum


That's interesting. Have you seen any recent papers exploring the use of lactobacilli in the treatment/prevention of colon cancer?As for bifidobacteria causing colon cancer (which the above paper certainly doesn't suggest), that is difficult for me to swallow. After all, bifidobacteria (with the exception of B. adolescentis) act as anti-inflammatory agents in the colon. Could we simply not be looking at "unlucky" correlation? Looking at some Pubmed abstracts, I get the idea that bifidobacteria are actually good at keeping cancer at bay (in rats!)


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## Nanobug (Nov 7, 2006)

The study entitled "Experimental evidences on the potential of prebiotic fructans to reduce the risk of colon cancer" suggest that both FOS and bifidobacteria have anticarcinogenic properties:"Recent research in experimental animal models revealed that inulin has significant anticarcinogenic properties. It acts chemopreventively by reducing the incidence of azoxymethane (AOM) - induced aberrant crypt foci and tumours in the colon. *These effects may be due to the stimulation of bifidobacteria, which themselves have been shown to act as antigenotoxic in the colon* and to reduce AOM-induced tumours."


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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

GOT MAIL FROM THE RESEARCHERS IN FRANCE:


> quote:This strain has been isolated in 1970 by the University of north Carolina and has been used in alimentary products.Prof Desrumeaux from the France institute has demonstrated the anti-pain effect in the bowel.


You can buy the product here:http://www.metagenics.com/products/detail.asp?pid=9


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

I wonder if it is more of a situation in the general population with who tends to end up with a high level of those bacteria without specific supplementation and who doesn't.I don't think we understand to any degree why there is the variation in colonic flora between people. Nor do I think we at all understand how altering the flora in a specific way with supplementation effects the rest of the bacterial population in the colon. Just because you make one thing better with one strain doesn't mean you can't set things up in a way that something else gets wonky in a negative way.Diet and what you get exposed to probably play some role, there may also be certain people have a particular genetic background or physiological state that encourages any given bacteria genera vs another. Also unknown is how much a given strain used in a give study matches the range of species and strains found in random people. I've seen peeps sort through enough bacterial strains to find the one that does the thing they want, even when the vast majority of strains of the species do something completely different (which prompted one of my advisors to send a package of bacterial strains to the editor of a journal with a note saying you do the experiment and you tell me what the answer is since it didn't match the results in the literature...the paper got published after that)Also what an animal gets exposed to in the way of dietary carcinogens and anti-carcinogens probably doesn't in any way match what a human is exposed to through diet (and how much those play a role in colon cancer gets various answers depending on what you look at). I mean lab rats don't usually BBQ meat over charcoal on a regular basis







There are sooo many unknowns when it comes to colonic flora that it is hard to know what the what is, and it is seriously unlikely that any one of them would be total benefit with no downside for all people in all cases. It is also hard to know what things in test tubes, animal models or small studies in humans really means a lot of the time. Don't get too attached to any preliminary work. Even the peeps doing the study were shocked the Bifo's ended up the way there were. May not mean you don't want to supplement with them, but it also is the kind of result that shows we don't know nearly as much as we like to think we do.In general I think probiotics are probably a good thing (I use them) but I also know that we don't know what the long-term effects of using them are actually going to be. Or how the good vs the bad balances out for any of the strains.K.


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

One thing I know the mix is part of our environments. A person say in south florida, doesn't have the same mix as someone in new york say, because they are part of helping you in a specific environment-your. ;0InfoThis is just bacteria information. Some on probiotics as well.fyihttp://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20030531/bob9.aspBacteria: More Than PathogensBy Trudy M. Wassenaarhttp://www.actionbioscience.org/biodiversity/wassenaar.htmlInternational Scientific Association for Probiotics and Prebiotics http://www.isapp.net/http://www.usprobiotics.org/http://www.medicalconsumers.org/pages/Prob..._Be_Trusted.htm


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## Nanobug (Nov 7, 2006)

> quote:There are sooo many unknowns when it comes to colonic flora that it is hard to know what the what is, and it is seriously unlikely that any one of them would be total benefit with no downside for all people in all cases.


Agreed! At the end of the day, however, we all have to make decisions based on incomplete and/or even wrong data, regarding *all* aspects of our lives. However, at the same time it doesn't make sense to wait for the Whole Truth(tm) because one may not live long enough to benefit from it.Moral of the story: it's challenging to be Human!


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

I am pretty sure quite a few IBSers have been eating yogurt for a while now."Yoghurt improves gut instincts STOMACH ache? Try some yogurt to soothe the pain. Lactobacillus acidophilus, a "friendly" bacterium often found in yogurt and "probiotic" drinks, boosts the synthesis of receptors for opioids and cannabinoids, our natural painkillers, in gut cells.A team led by Christel Rousseaux of the French National Institute of Health and Medical Research in Lille saw the effect in human intestinal cells as well as in the guts of live rodents (Nature Medicine, DOI: 10.1038/nm1521).Rats had a 20 per cent increase in their abdominal pain threshold - or twice that if they had irritable bowel syndrome. The team believes the bacteria could be a cheap, safe treatment for the 20 per cent of people who get serious abdominal pain."http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=...Id=health_rss20


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## Mary:::))) (Oct 23, 2006)

YAY.....I have lots of reading material thanks to all of you ::







))I really love scientific research.......I know I am a novice but I am willing to go on the journey with you guys to help other people....I also agree with Kathleen....that's why I am dragging my feet on this probiotic issue so much....where is the research...the conclusion....It is also the reason I would never get Lasik eye surgery done....and why I believe there is a serious link to breast cancer with birth control pills....things the media wouldn't want you to know...and not enough research to know the long term affects....what will they say ten to fifteen years from now? The scientific world both confuses yet amazes me............Mary::







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## Nanobug (Nov 7, 2006)

> quote:where is the research...the conclusion....


Problem is, if you wait too long for the "conclusion", you may not have any breaths left when said "conclusion" arrives!







So, from a rational perspective, you have to balance the risk/reward of doing nothing versus the risk/reward of doing something. I'm afraid that this is something that you, and only you, are qualified to determine.


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## Mary:::))) (Oct 23, 2006)

Nanobug...you are so right too...I agree ....my Mom made me paranoid I swear......I am so cautious especially having been screwed over by the medical profession for the last 3 years.....I will never completely trust them or anyone else with my own health again....I really appreciate your input...I hope you know this ::







))Mary::







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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

FYIDanisco trial tips probiotics into pain relief arenaBy Jess Halliday12/14/2006 - Oral administration of Lactobacillous acidophilus NCFM has been seen to have an analgesic effect in the gut similar to that of morphine â€" a finding that opens up a new realm of applications for Daniscoâ€™s probiotic strainacidophilus NCFM has been seen to have an analgesic effect in the gut similar to that of morphine â€" a finding that opens up a new realm of applications for Daniscoâ€™s probiotic strain. Marketed under the name Howaru Dophilus, the strain is one of Danisco Cultures' flagship strains and has been extensively tested for its gut health benefits, stability and survivability through the gastrointestinal tract. The findings of the study, conducted at French research institute Inserm and the University of Lille and a brief communication of which is published in Nature Medicine have been patented by Danisco. The company is already in discussions with potential partners in the pharmaceutical, dietary supplement and food industries over its use in commercial products. The researchers hypothesised that probiotics may induce the expression of receptors on epithelial cells that control transmission of nociceptive information to the intestinal nervous system. In particular, opioid receptors and cannabinoid receptor 2 were judged to be promising. The first step of the study involved evaluating five Lactobacillus and Bifidobacterium bacteria for the induction of expression of analgesic receptors in human HT-29 epithelial cells. The NCFM strain was seen to induce a sustained increase of OPRM1 mRNA expression, and to induce significant cannabinoid receptor expression (CNR2 mRNA) compared to that observed in resting epithelial cells. The researchers went on to conduct in vivo experiments with mice and rats. NCFM was orally administered at a dose of 109 for 15 consecutive days. In the treated animals' colonic section expression of MORI and CB2 was detected in 25-60 per cent of epithelial cells, compared to 0-20 per cent in the untreated animals. To determine the visceral perception of rats, the researchers used colorectal distension, whereby pain is characterised by visible abdominal contractions and elevation of the hindpart of the animal's body. The NCFM strain was seen to decrease normal visceral perception and increase the pain threshold by 20 per cent â€" an affect that increased as the dosage increased. In a model of chronic colonic hypersensitivity, the NCFM was seen to increase colorectal distension threshold by 44 per cent compared to untreated rates, and had an antinococeptive effect like that of 1mg of subcutaneous morphine per kg of body weight. Lead researcher Professor Pierre Desreumaux, head of the department of gastrointestinal diseases and nutrition at Lille University and research director at Inserm said: â€œOne could envision NCFM to be prescribed for intestinal function disorders or co-administered with morphine to relieve serious gastrointestinal pathologies, therefore reducing morphine doses and related side effects.â€ Danisco is currently conducting additional, complementary studies in the US on people suffering from irritable bowel syndrome (IBS). A spokesperson for the company told NutraIngredients.com called the development â€œan interesting new function for probioticsâ€. She said that there is a large target market for the application area â€" abdominal or intestinal pain is thought to affect between 10 and 20 per cent of adults in the world, according to the World Health Organisation. In particular, it is one of a collection of symptoms associated with IBS. The probiotic would be used in different concentrations in pharmaceutical, supplement and food products. For foods, it would be largely dependent on the food matrix, and the concentration would be at the level for which they can make probiotic claims â€" that is 109 cfu (colony-forming units) per serving. â€œOn probiotics in general we always search for new functionalities to enable development of new areas of application,â€ said the spokesperson, adding that the research was conducted specifically with a view to improving treatment of pain for people with severe gastrointestinal diseases. The Howaru Dophilus strain is said to be the world's only commercially-available Lactobacillous acidophilus with a fully sequenced annoted genome. Geonome sequencing allows Danisco to obtain the fingerprint of a strain, which in turn allows it to screen for functional properties such as texture, flavour, health benefits, and the probability of being able to produce it on an industrial scale. The company has an impressive bank consisting of more than 10,000 potential strains kept in a carefully controlled environment â€" and is continues to source new ones. While not all of these are active, they are continuously screened for their properties and potential for mutations. Source: Nature MedicinePublished on-line ahead of print, doi: 10.1038/nm1521â€Lactobacillus acidophilus modulates intestinal pain and induces opioid and cannabinoid receptorsâ€ Authors: Christel Rousseaux, Xavier Thuru, Agathe Gelot, Nicolas Barnich, Christel Neut, Laurent Dubuquoy, Caroline Dubuquoy, Emilie Merour, Karen Geboes, Mathias Chamaillard, Arthur Ouwehand, Greg Leyer, Didier Carcano, Jean-FrÃ©dÃ©ric Colombel, Denis Ardid and Pierre Desreumaux. http://www.nutraingredients-usa.com/news/n...iotics-ibs-painWhile this is common probiotic in yogurt, it appeears they have modifiy the strain it looks like at least.


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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

> quote:Originally posted by Nanobug:Kathleen and SpAsMaN*,Thanks for all the info provided. This strain is readily available which means it can actually be tested by people with pain. I'm going to buy it and test it to see what kind of reaction I get to it.Nanobug


Hmmm:http://ibsgroup.org/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f...261/m/351106072


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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

Order from Metagenic on it's way.I mean i had to order from a natural pharmacy becaue Metagenic don't sell to random people.


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