# quick question



## alwayshappy (Mar 11, 2009)

hellojust a quick question for those who have ibs-c... if you take the stuff the drs give you to clear out before a colonoscopy, does it clear you out?i'm asking, cause when i take it, it's just turns everything in the colon into water, but it stays in there and sloshes back and forth without coming out and it can last like that for DAYS!!did any of you have the same problem?thanks for you reply!!


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Usually once everything it turned to water it should come out pretty easily.Generally IBS-C types have near normal transit times so they may go 2-3 times a week without taking something. Mostly the colon can move things along, it just isn't always doing it in a way that is well coordinated. Mouth to out time will be close to the 72 hour maximum of the normal range.Colonic inertia has abnormal transit times. So they may go 2-3 times a month without taking something. The colon can't move things along anymore. Mouth to out time will often be 5 days or longer.The other issue is pelvic floor problems. If your pelvic floor won't relax to let things out that can also screw things up and keep things in and sloshing as you can't let it out.Does this mean they do not do your colonoscopy? If they are able to do it they do fill you up with air and that gas can sound or feel sloshy until it all comes out. I don't think we can really feel much difference between gas moving around and liquid moving around.


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## alwayshappy (Mar 11, 2009)

thank you Kathleen for your reply!!well, the situation with me is that i don't even feel the urge to go at all for at least a week - 10 days. i just feel really full, bloated and gassy. my transit time test showed all markers still in the left colon and don't even reach the rectum after 10 days. the x ray i took after 5 days showed they were all in my transeverse colon, after 7 days they started reaching the left colon and after 10 days they were all in my left colon not reaching the rectum yet, so i guess it shows exactly why i don't feel any urge to go.i'm just really confused as for wether i have ibs-c or colonic inertia. my drs recomend i have a colectomy, so i guess i'm just trying to make sure that i'm not making the biggest mistake of my life going for surgery. i've had this situation going for 16 yrs now and it's only getting worse and worse. i've tried all kinds of diets, increased my water intake up to 3 liters a day, doing sports, tried abdominal massages at a osteopath (sp?), colonics and non of those helped. it only continue to get worse. i just want to go for surgery when i feel most sure it's the right thing to do.thanks again.


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Sitz makers should be out in 3 days.Your results sounds like colonic inertia to me.That they are recommending a colectomy also sounds like colonic inertia to me. They don't recommend that for IBS-C.Surgery usually is a last resort even for colonic inertia because you can't put it back and there can be issues with pain from the internal scars or adhesions. So there usually is some tipping point where the pain and risk of doing nothing is worth the risk of the surgery.Have you had pelvic floor testing? Sometimes they make sure that if you got stuff to the end in a normal time you will be able to pass it.IBS does have a tendency to come and go. I think colonic inertia pretty much seems to only get worse. Most of what you have tried would only help IBS-C rather than colonic inertia. They are worth trying as sometimes people can get enough movement to get more years of functioning out of the colon.


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## alwayshappy (Mar 11, 2009)

well actually, i had a prolapse and rectocele repair couple of yrs ago. had the pelvic tests before the surgery and i had them again post op like defecography, manomatry and a U.S of the pelvic. now after the surgery they're o.k except that they show i have a certain level of anismus, but not too bad and my drs say it won't come in my way post colectomy.... i sure hope so







it's all just so scary...


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## Sean (Feb 8, 1999)

That definitely sounds like calssic colonic inertia. I have it, too. It pretty much never goes away. I have avoided the surgery thus far with pretty aggressive "conventional" treatments. I am guessing that I will eventually have to have a subtotal colectomy at some point later in life. Not looking forward to that at all.


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## alwayshappy (Mar 11, 2009)

yeah, i know exactly how you feel.. i'm having hard time excepting it too. how long have you been suffering from it? it's just so hard to believe that that's our only potion. how do you manage every day? i'm having a real hard time.. i can't have normal life with this problem. it takes over my life and i'm in pain most of the time, bloated and the laxatives hardly help me, i'm really miserable. are you able to have relief still?i wish you the best of luck with anything you decide to do!!!


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## Sean (Feb 8, 1999)

I have been suffering with it for over half of my life. I had a lot of constipation issues as a kid, but no one ever thought much about it, even though I had some pretty awful and frequent stomach aches. The constipation became chronic at about age 16 and I started seeing a gastroenterologist who did a battery of tests. He kept trying to treat it by filling me up with fiber - which did not help. Finally, he put me on a combination stool softener and stimmulant laxative that worked. When I was 25, I finally got a diagnosis of colonic inertia from a new gastroenterologist at a university teaching hospital. He thought to do a Sitzmark study in addtion to everything else. All 24 markers were still in me after five days. A repeat showed the same thing. I am 37 now and things are no better. I have taken almost everything known to man including Zelnorm before it was taken off of the market. Nothing has helped consistently. I go twice a week now with the help of the only thing that seems to work - Dulcolax. I use the tablets most of the time, but also take Dulcolax suppositories when the tablets are not convenient. It seems that a stimulant lax is the only thing that gets my colon to contract. How long that will continue to work is anyone's guess. I can also get a large (2 quart) tap water enema to work if I don't do them too often. My system seems to get used to them and they lose effectiveness if I do one too often. When that happens, I have trouble getting enough water to go up my colon and get painful cramps. Then I seem to have trouble getting it all to come back out in a reasonable amount of time.


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## alwayshappy (Mar 11, 2009)

it all sounds so familiar. i'm still hoping to find some miracle to help me. i saw the post about the source naturals women's life force multiple vitamin and was very impressed at how it helped so many on this board. kinda tempted to build a new hope.. did you see that post? what do think about it, do you think it can help us? i live in israel, and the only pharmacy i know that orders source naturals products said they'll have to order it for me and it'll take about a month for it to get here. i'm gonna give it a shot.


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## Lookin'foraLife (Jan 2, 2009)

Hello alwayshappy, which pharmacy did you order it from? I too live in Israel and have tried almost all available probiotics sold in the country to no avail, so I would be very interested in also placing an order from that pharmacy!Toda!


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## alwayshappy (Mar 11, 2009)

היי lookinforalifeמצאתי את זה בבית מרקחת ברעננה בית מרקחת בר אילן ברח' בר אילן 29 טל 097487525לפי האתר של החברה שמייצרת את הויטמינים, נראה שזה המקום היחיד בארץ שמייבא מוצרים שלהם. הם לא מחזיקים את כל הסוגים כל הזמן אבל איזה סוג ספציפי שאתה רוצה הם מזמינים ותוך 3 שבועות בערך זה אמור להגיע. תתקשר מהר אולי הם יצרפו את ההזמנה שלך לשלי!!בהצלחה!!!תעדכן אותי אם הצלחתאל תשכח לבקש ללא ברזל


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## Lookin'foraLife (Jan 2, 2009)

ממש תודה!אני אנסה להזמין, אני מוכנה לנסות הכל, העיקר להרגיש כבר יותר טוב.בהצלחה לשתינו!


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## alwayshappy (Mar 11, 2009)

היי,מאיזה בעיה בדיוק את סובלת אם זה בסדר שאני שואלת? אני למשל, סובלת מחוסר יציאות ספונטניות, כלומר אין לי יציאות ספונטניות והרופאים מציעים לי ניתוח לכריתת המעי הגס. במה מתבטאת העצירות שלך?


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## Lookin'foraLife (Jan 2, 2009)

הזמנתי את זה ואמרו לי שיגיע תוך חודש. נותר לי רק לחכות. קראתי למעלה את הסיפור שלך וההצעה של כריתת מעי הגס באמת נשמע קיצונ, אך מאידך גם הסמפטומים שלך קיצוניים. אם רופא המליץ לך על ניתוח אז הוא כנראה השתכנע שזה הכרחי. אצלי הרופאים דווקא לא מספיק מתייחסים לסבל שלי ברצינות ואומרים לי "זה תסמונת המעי הרגיז. תלמדי לחיות עם זהץ" מה שכמובן לא עוזר בכלל. גם אני סובלת מעצירות קשה שהיתה כרונית כמה מספר שנים לפני שפיתחתי מעי רגיז. בעבר היתה לי יציאה פעם בשבוע או אפילו קרוב לפעם בשבועיים. היום המצב השתפר בעזרת מגנזיום סיטראט של סולגר, 1200 מ"ג ליום. אבל אפילו כשיש לי יציאות זה לא מעלים את הבעיות האחרות: נפיחות, גזים, בחילות, כאבים חזקים בבטן התחתונה, קשיי שינה, הפרעות בריכוז ובזיכרון, חוסר יכלת לסבול כ-95% ממאכלים.ניסיתי כבר הרבה מאוד טיפולים "טבעיים" ומלבד הומיופטיה שעזרה קצת תקופה מסויימת, כלום לא עזר. אם הייתי חושבת שניתוח היה יכול לפתור את בעיותיי הייתי עושה את זה, אבל איך בדיוק מתפקדים ללא מעי גס?נראה שהבעיה של שתינו קשורה לתנועתיות לקויה של מערכת העיכול. הרופאה שלי מנסה לשכנע אותי זמן רב לנסות תרופות אנטידיכאוניות ורשמה לי מרשם לציפרלקס. זה אמור לשפר את התנועתיות במעיים לאחר כחודשיים, אני רק מפחדת לנסות בגלל תופעות הלוואי. האם זה משהו שכבר ניסית? אם לא, אולי תנסי לפני שתקבעי תור לניתוח.


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## alwayshappy (Mar 11, 2009)

בס"דהיי,בדיוק אתמול התקשרו אלי מהבית מרקחת להגיד לי שזה הגיע, אני חושבת שזה לקח רק שבועיים מאז שהזמנתי, אז יכול להיות שלא תתצטרכי לחכות הרבה.אני כ"כ מבינה את התסכול שבתשובה "יש לך מעי רגיז, תלמדי לחיות עם זה.." גם לי הרופאים אמרו בהתחלה שזה מעי רגיז, אבל מה שאת אומרת יציאה פעם בשבוע-שבועיים זה בעצם מאוד דומה למצב שלי.. האם זה היה מצב קבוע או שמדי פעם היו תקופות באמצע שזה היה משתנה? (משתנה, הכוונה בלי משלשלים, כמובןהאם הלכת לקבל כמה חוות דעת? איזה בירור עשית? הרי הבעיה שלנו היא יותר בעיה תפקודית מאשר מחלה אורגנית, האם עשית בדיקות תפקודיות, כגון: זמן מעבר במעי הגס, דפקוגרפיה, מנומטריה, אולטראסאונד פריאנלי, חוקן בריום?בעזרת בדיקות אלה אפשר לאתר איפה בדיוק הבעיה בחוסר ההתרוקנות - אם זה כל המעי לא מתפקד או שיש רק הפרעה ברקטום.במה מתבטאת העצירות שלך? האם את מרגישה צורך וזה פשוט לא יוצא בשום אופן, או שאת יכולה להתסתובב ימים שלמים בלי להרגיש אפילו שום צורך ליציאה, אבל הבטן, כמובן נפוחה וכואבת? אני שואלת את זה, כי אם רוב הזמן את כן מרגישה צורך ממשי ליציאה, אבל זה פשוט תקוע ובשום אופן לא יוצא, אז במקרה זה סביר להניח שהמעי עובד טוב וישנה רק הפרעה ברקטום עצמו, אבל אם את יכולה לעבור ימים ושבועות בלי אפילו להרגיש צורך ממשי ליציאה, מלבד הרגשה לא נוחה ואף כואבת בבטן, אז זה יכול להיות קולוניק אינרשיהאני מניחה כי עשית כבר קולונסקופיה? האם גם לך קרה שהמרוקן שנותנים לשתות כהכנה פשוט נשאר בפנים? זה פשוט מעניין אותי לשאול כמה שיותר אנשים עם עצירות אם זה קרה להם גם, כי זה יכול לעזור לי לברר אם אכן המצב שלי קיצוני שמצדיק ניתוח, או שיש עוד אנשים שהחומר הזה פשוט לא משפיע עליהם? מעניין.... כל הבעיות של חוסר זיכרון וחוסר ריכוז התחילו אצלי בדיוק באותו זמן שבעיית העצירות הופיעה!! את חושבת באמת שיש קשר? לגבי הסיפור שלך... בגלל שאת מדווחת על כאבים בבטן תחתונה, יש סיכוי לא קטן שאצלך זה רק הפרעה ברצפת האגן - כלומר ברקטום בלבד. אני מאוד מקווה שזה כל הסיפור אצלך. האם עברת לידות? האם הן היו טראומטיות? אם עדיין לא עשית את הבדיקות שרשמתי לך, אני ממליצה לך מאוד לעשות אותם, ואם רופא הגסטרו שלך לא משתף פעולה, אפשר ללכת לרופא אחר, אני הלכתי דרך המושלם למבין הרופאים הכי טובים בארץ ופשוט ביקשתי את הבדיקות האלה. גם לי הרופא הנוכחי שלי הציע ציפרלקס, אבל אני לא מוכנה. אין בזה שום בושה, אבל אני עדיין לא חושבת שאני זקוקה להם.באופן כללי ובקצרה, אחרי שכורתים את המעי הגס, יש תוצאה של שילשולים מרובים, מכיוון שהמעי הגס תפקידו לספוח את כל המים מהצואה ובכך למצק אותה וכשאין מעי גס, אין מה שימצק את הצואה. אבל המעי הדק לומד עם הזמן לעשות גם את התפקיד הזה ואחרי כמה חודשים בעיית השילשולים אמורה להתמתן.מצאתי פורום עם עשרות בנות שעברו כריתה של המעי הגס עקב עצירות כרונית קשה ורוב התוצאות הן די מוצלחות, שזה מעודד, אבל יש גם סיפורים עצובים שזה לא הצליח ויש גם - אולי 10% מהבנות שבסופו של דבר לא הייתה להן ברירה והיו צריכות לעבור לסטומה לכל החיים.לי עדיין אין ממש תאריך לניתוח. הייתה התייעצות לפני כחודש וחצי של 5 רופאים שדנו על המקרה שלי והם אמרו שאכן יש מקום לניתוח, אבל הם רוצים שאני אראה פסיכיאטר קודם שיאשר שאני כשירה ויציבה נפשית לעבור ניתוח כזה. פשוט עוד לא חזרו אלי לגבי קביעת פגישה עם הפסיכיאטר וזה לוקח כבר יותר מדי זמן.הייתי מאוד שמחה לדבר איתך, אם את מרגישה נוח עם זה.. הטל שלי 0503091239סליחה על המגילה..


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## Lookin'foraLife (Jan 2, 2009)

במשך שנים העצירות היה מצב קבוע למדי מלמבד בתקופות בהם לקחתי "עזרים" בכדי להקל ובמשך תקופת המחזור גם היתה הקלה טבעית. היום עם המגנזיום זה פחות או יותר הסתדר כל עוד אני ממשיכה לקחת. הבעיה היא שאפילו כשבעיית העצירות "נפתרת" בדרך זו, נותרות הבעיות הנוספות הקשורות למעי הרגיז, כך שלא נראה לי שטיפול בעצירות יפתור לי את כל הבעיות. במידה ואין לי יציאות, אני פשוט לא מרגישה צורך פיזי בכך בכלל.הלכתי לקבל חוות דעת ממספר רופאי גסטרו שלא היו מוכנים להתייחס אליי ברצינות. אמרו לי לאכול יותר סיבים ושלחו אותי לדרכי.רק כשהלכתי לרופא מומחה באופן פרטי (עלה לי הון), הוא נתן לי בדיקת סיגמודוסקופיה (לא גילה גבר) ולאחר תחנונים רבים קיבלתי אנדוסקופיה באמצעות קפסולה שבדק רק את המעי הקטן ודווח על זמן מעבר תקין.על רבים מבין הבדיקות שהצעת מעולם לא שמעתי ולא הציעו לי. עברתי הרבה בדיקות לשלילת בעיה אורגנית .אבל אפילו קולונוסקופיה לא עברתי כי אמרו לי שזה מיותר והאמת כל הבדיקות החודרניות האלה מפחידות אותי נורא ולא הייתי מתעקשת על בדיקה סיוטית.שתיתי מי מרוקן לבדיקת האנדוסקופיה באמצעות קפסולה שעשיתי והמים לא נשארו בפנים כמו בסיפור שלך.לגבי בעיות בריכוז וזיכרון אין לי ספק שקיים קשר ביניהם לבין בעיות במערכת העיכול. דבר משפיע על דבר.אגב, לא עברתי הריונות.האם ישנן בדיקות שהמלצת עליהן שלא היו כואבות או חודרניות מדי? קשה לי להאמין שהבעיה מסתכמת בחוסר פעילות נורמטיבית של חלק מאוד ספציפי של המעי בגלל ריבוי הסמפטומים שלי ללא קשר ליציאות. אגב, הדבר שאולי הכי מפריע לי זה שאני כמעט לא מצליחה לאכול דבר מבלי לקבל "התקפה" של גזים , נפיחות וכאבים שברגע שזה מתחיל יכול להמשיך אפילו מספר שבועות!מי רופא הגסטרו שלך אגב?האם הבנות שעברו כריתת מעי הגס עדיין סבלו אח"כ מתסמיני המעי הרגיז?בכ"ז האופציה של ציפרלקס נראה לי פחות קיצוני מהניתוח!תודה על מס' הטלפון. אולי באמת נשוחח בהזדמנות .


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## Jeffrey Roberts (Apr 15, 1987)

Don't want to intrude on your private conversation. Can we suggest that you continue in a Private Message (PM) to each other. 99% of our members and visitors are English speaking.Thanks! Jeff


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## alwayshappy (Mar 11, 2009)

oh gosh, i'm so sorry Jeffrey, we really didn't mean to be rude.promise to never do that again


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## alwayshappy (Mar 11, 2009)

BTW, thanks for a wonderful forum







!!!!


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## alwayshappy (Mar 11, 2009)

well, have been to few drs, they didn't give me much hope, the first one said that nothing's wrong with me and it's all in my head, the second one said it's just IBS and i should learn to live with it, the 3rd one did more tests and said i have a major prolapse of the rectum + a 2.5 cm rectocele and that should be fixed, but as my colon is also not working and should be removed (that was the first time i heard this and was in REAL shock!!), he said he didn't want to treat me, cause he's affraid he'll make things worse. i asked him over and over how it could hurt me if he fixes the rectum, but he didn't really give me an answer. so he simply said.."i can't help you.." i was sooooooo shocked and discouraged that i couldn't stop crying for weeks.to make a long story short, i found dr Ron Greenberg, a colorectal surgoen and he took me to a consultation with him at proffesor (sp?) Zamir Halperin, the head of the gastroenterology ward in ichilov hosp and dr. Roi Dekel, a gi from ichilov too. now they are all examining my case. also dr Ron Ishay is examining my case too.i really think you should have these tests done. if you want, you can either e mail me at [email protected]  or call me and i can explain those tests to you. really there's nothing to be affraid of. i think it can really help you.about the chiparlex, i don't think it will solve my constipation issues.


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## postmortem (Nov 11, 2006)

the thing i have trouble getting is why doctors say fixing a rectocele would not help constipation... doesn't that sometimes in turn cause constipation? it's not always an effect of constipation.


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## alwayshappy (Mar 11, 2009)

hi Postmortem,i'm not sure what you know or don't know, so i'll tell you what i know.constipation can be caused by few obstractive probs in the rectum, such as: rectal prolapse that blocks the stools from passing, rectocele - which is a prolapse of the wall that's separates between the rectum and vagina and a kind of a pocket is created towards the vagina. this pocket get filled with stools that can't come out, anismus - in a normal way, our pelvic is sqweezed in a certain level in order to prevent our secretes from pouring out without control. for this job we have a muscle called the "puborectalis", which holds our rectum, vagina and bladder from bein too loose. now, when there's a bm, then this muscle MUST relax and by relaxing it allows the stool to pass. in anismus the problem is that when there's a bm the muscle paradoxicaly sqeezes even more and not allowing the stools to pass, enterocele - a situation in which there's kind of a prolapse of the small bowel and they just press on the pelvic and this presure causes inability to pass stools (not quite sure if the info i have on the enterocele is accurate though) - these are the obstractive probs within the pelvic, and they are all defined as a pelvic floor dysfunction.there's also a condition where the whole colon doesn't function, a condition that also called colonic inertia, or slow transit constipation, if that's the case, the whole colon should be removed. usually, ppl (it happens mostly to women rather than men) who have colonic inertia also tend to develope a pelvic floor dysfunction, due to the long yrs of being constipated and bearing down.now, i had a rectal prolapse and a rectocele (had that fixed 2 yrs ago with the STARR procedure), BUT i also have colonic inertia, which means that fixing the rectum only can't solve my problems, so in that case there's no other choice but to have my colon removed as well (and to hope the results are successful). it's important to fix the rectum as well, cause it's like if the plumbing is not working then it should be removed, but if the fauced is also broken, then it should be fixed too!! i assume that the dr who told me that he can't help me, said that only b/c he didn't want to deal with this type of prob. i got the impression that there are certain drs that don't want to deal with ppl with colonic inertia w/pelvic floor dysfunction, but that's o.k, cause there are many other great drs that ARE willing to deal with it. just have to find the right drs.hope that answers your question.


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## Lookin'foraLife (Jan 2, 2009)

Hi, Wow, you sure seem to have alot of info on this subject. Sounds like you've been through alot dealing with it. Is constipation your only symptom or do you have others alongside of it such as nausea, intestinal hypersensitivity, indigestion and so on? I have so many different symptoms that I dont think that in my case just dealing with the constipation would help all that much. I feel ill even when I'm all cleaned out.


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## alwayshappy (Mar 11, 2009)

hi, i've learned some about my prob, which involves the pelvic floor and the colon, but i don't know much about probs in the upper digestive system though. i don't get nausous or have any more probs, except for not having any spontaneous bms, so i get real gasy, bloated, crampy and uncomforatble. most days the pain is so bad that i can't stand straight. i feel o.k only when i keep empty. so i eat only breakfast everyday and i have a cup of black coffee at 4 pm and that's it. some days i get hungry and eat more, so then i'm hurging BAD. on sabbath i eat all 3 mealls and then i take the yobsolax that helps a lot to make me go. if i eat 3 meals every day, i'll won't be able to function or go to work at all.what i do know is that there's a condition where the small intestine are slow and there's a condition called gastroparasis (sp?) where the stomach is also very slow and ppl who have these probs can feel really nausous all the time and feel really full even after eating a single peanutd, cause it takes their stomach and small intestines way too long to empty. were you dxed with gastroparasis? fortunately, i don't have these issues, but i've talked to ppl who all their dygestive system is slow from esophogus to rectum. they always feel nausous and full like they've just have a feast. they also vomit (involuntary) if they eat a little more than they should. do you have that prob too? and oh yes, i've just remembered that i've read that these ppl are usually prescribed with reglan. do you take that medicine too?


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## Lookin'foraLife (Jan 2, 2009)

It sounds awful to eat so little throughout the day! I live on a very limited diet and eat a little for every meal. What has helped me and might actually work in your case as well is drinking Ensure Plus energy drinks during the day. Each has the caloric value of a meal and is filled with vitamins, is well absorbed and can actually have a mild laxative effect. It saved me from anorexia when all this began.From your description it does not sound like what you have falls under the category of IBS.I have only been diagnosed as having IBS. My docs won't prescribe me anything besides antidepressants. I'm not nausous all the time, but some of the time. Sometimes I'm full without eating a thing and sometimes I'm starving. I never vomit.For some reason alhtough I try to stick to my diet, my condition seems to get worse during the Sabbath. Strange...I'd love to try the Reglan, I just need to find a doc who'll prescribe it to me! Do they carry it in Israel?


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## sarah jane (Apr 1, 2009)

couple of comments..having your colon removed seems like a drastic choice.I can appreciate that you may already have tried every avenue you possibly can, and that having surgery seems like the only remaining choice.and i don't want to project my own feelings about this on to you, when it may have taken you a really long and sober length of time to come to this decision.I am a nurse by background, and have taken care of patients who have had total colectomies, and now live for the rest of their lives with a bag at their waist.you have so much of the rest of your life ahead of you, and medical progress is always developing by leaps and bounds.once you let them take your colon there's no going back, and this will be a devastating loss for you to cope with.SJ


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## sarah jane (Apr 1, 2009)

I completely understand your reluctance to eat only breakfast..then some coffee.but you need to put nourishment into your body...small amounts, soft foods perhaps...soups, shakes, fruit smoothies..i do a lot of this.the other thing i use, to curb my appetite, is from Okuma Nutritionals [based in Colorado]..they have a tea called Wu-Long and they also have herbal capsules [of the same tea]..this is an all natural product and in addition to curbing appetite, it also boosts energy levels and is touted as a weight loss extract.give it a try..you can order online.sj


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## debibsc (Mar 31, 2009)

sarah jane said:


> couple of comments..having your colon removed seems like a drastic choice.I can appreciate that you may already have tried every avenue you possibly can, and that having surgery seems like the only remaining choice.and i don't want to project my own feelings about this on to you, when it may have taken you a really long and sober length of time to come to this decision.I am a nurse by background, and have taken care of patients who have had total colectomies, and now live for the rest of their lives with a bag at their waist.you have so much of the rest of your life ahead of you, and medical progress is always developing by leaps and bounds.once you let them take your colon there's no going back, and this will be a devastating loss for you to cope with.SJ


hi Sarah-Jane,For myself, I feel exactly the same way. I don't want my colon removed. I keep thinking that they will find an answer for my problem and that I'm just going to have to battle on best I can until then, if possible. And I don't have any bms without strong laxatives and now, not even those it seems.This week, after taking the one laxative that usually doesn't fail me actually did fail, and following it up with a fleet enema used in desperation to get things moving also failed, I was very upset and distressed. Then on Thursday I had my first colonic irrigation (I figured what had I to loose except a whole lot of fecal matter if lucky) and it feels like it has emptied me out well. I was careful to research a reputable place and the person who conducted the colonic was great -- also massaging my stomach the whole time. It's Saturday afternoon now and I still feel well. I'm going to continue along this road. I'll try the Epsom Salts again next week (can't get an appointment for colonic irrigation because Easter is coming up here) but have a follow up for a colonic the following week. Hopefully this will be the answer. My gi prescribed his 'last resort' for me -- colgout. A medication for gout that also causes a lot diarrhea in people with gout. I was wary of taking it as I didn't know what I'd do if it didn't work, and also because it can cause some liver problems and you have to be tested for those fairly regularly, as I understand it.I don't want to lose any more organs if I can help it. The thought of a colorectomy scares me. And I'm not exactly young. I'm 53. Once it's out they can't put it back in.deb


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## sarah jane (Apr 1, 2009)

Hi Deb..I am new to this website/forum, so ..enjoyed getting a response, and hearing from you. it feels so helpful to connect w/others dealing with IBS..I'm pretty convinced I have colonic inertia..you and 'Sean' are the only other two people i have so far noted on this forum, who have the same.so, we can help each other with suggestions, since even when we take laxatives, they often still just sit there in our colon, w/the contents we are trying to flush out.Like you, I have had a series of colonics, and they have helped greatly..a good resource..but i couldn't keep up the expense, and i also want to try and figure out how to get my colon flushed out on my own, whenever possible. But i think having colonics available when i i feel like nothing i'm doing is working, is a major help.An ayurvedic practitioner recommended this to me, and it has been helping to flush me out, as well as being really good for the colon..it's an herb from India, used predominantly there for tons of health and digestive issues..it's called Triphala..you can order it at BanyanBotanticals.com..order the powder form..it tastes very bitter..follow a slug of it with tea or juice..use it on an empty stomach, starting with a teaspoon at a time.let me know if you try this.Because of the Inertia, i regularily use a suppository to stimulate my colon to 'git movin'..either a dulcolax, or a peppermint capsule [which needs to be 100%organic, otherwise you can't use it internally..not safe]..if you're interested in the peppermint oil I can tell you where to get it.Final comment on the idea of surgery..No! No! No!.. we can and MUST find ways to manage this without going down that road..EVER!..I, like you, am older versus younger [65] and by golly we're going ride this out OK..especially with this group support, which feels like a life line..anyone reading this, respond if the mood grabs you,and i am especially interested in connecting w/those who have colonic inertia in addition to the title of IBS-C..hugs to all of you out there dealing day by day hour by hour with this very challenging experience,sj


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## alwayshappy (Mar 11, 2009)

hi all,lookinforalife, i've tried ensure and it gives me REAL BAD cramps and feels like dreaded whirlpools in my abdomen. it doesn't matter what i eat.. it just WON'T come out! i told you about my drs, have you heard of them? professor Halperin is actually one of the best gi drs in israel and also dr Ron Ishay. who's your dr? are you in Maccabi? if so, then i recomend you go to dr Ron Ishay, he belongs to Maccabi and specializes in motility disorders. i think it's time you try a new dr to get a second opinion and have some functional tests done. they can't say it's IBS, unless they've done ALL the tests to rule out anything else and in your case they didn't do ANY of those functional tests, so how can they just determine it's IBS???? i'd say it's totally irresponsible of them to do so!! i don't know wether we have reglan in israel.you're right... no matter what i eat on sabbath, i always feel the worse on that day.. it IS strange!!sarah jane, thanks for your comments and concern!! as much as i dread the idea of surgery, and believe me, i've tried EVERYTHING i can to avoid surgery, unfortunately, it does seem like it's my only option. i've been dxed with colonic inertia and have been struggeling with this for 16 years now!! i managed to live with it for about the first 10 years, but in the last 6 yrs it has gotten so bad, that it's literaly taking over my life and i can't go on living like this anymore. i don't have ANY quality of life anymore, so anything seems better than how i live my life now.. even surgery. laxatives hardly do anything for me, and even if i find something that helps, it helps for a short while and then stops, and even if i try to alternate, it won't help. i quit taking a certain laxative and tried it again after 6 months and it still doesn't do ANYTHING for me, once it stopped working, it'll never work again for me. same thing with all the other laxatives i've tried.colonic inertia only gets worse in time, no matter what diet you live on or life style. i've tried everything!! organic diets, doing sports, increasing my water intake to 3 litter a day, have been to an osteopath (sp?) and ALL kinds of homeopaths healers, biofeedback, therapy, hypnosis, mmmm.... what else..? i've tried SOOOOO many things, that i can't even remember them all... and while trying these things, my condition only got worse and worse, no matter what i do.my drs told me that at this point, there really is nothing i can do about it, my colon is paralized and that surgery is my only option. my colon is way too long and loopy and they say that if i don't do the surgery, i risk havin a perforation in my colon and that's too dangerous, and i don't want to have to have emergency surgery, that's for sure!well, about the ostomy, i'm happy to tell you that in colonic inertia patients, no bag is required!!! really. in colonic inertia there is no organic illnes like with crohns or colitis, so we get to keep our rectum.. yeah!! and they connect the small intestine to our rectum.. no bag, no j pouch.. in the first few months there's significant diarrhea, but after few months the small bowel learns to do the colon's job and the diarrhea lessens significantly. the success rate of this surgery is 90% and i've talked to women who had it and read about tens of them and they are all very happy they had it. they ALL say they actually got their lives back.only 4 out of about 40-50 women i've read about and talked to ended up with an ostomy. i've waited 16 yrs for medical progress to develope.. i'm 36 yrs old and ever since i was 20, my life is not considered a life at all, so i'm SO ready to start living my life again.


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## sarah jane (Apr 1, 2009)

OMG..I found your reply so helpful!I'm especially happy to hear that no ostomy bag is required after colon surgery..this is a huge piece of info..and from all that you just wrote I can TOTALLY appreciate your getting to this point, after all the years you have been through, and after all that you have tried.In your case, i can easily see the reason for making the surgery decision, and that you have indeed arrived at that place.Now I want to say GO FOR IT!..sounds like this is what you need to do..it helps to hear that people that have had it are happy, and have their life back.if you go ahead, please let the rest of us know about all of it..what you go through, the follow up etc.those of us with Colonic Inertia need the heads up, in the event that we get to that point also.I am twice your age, so am hoping that i can ride this out..but i am discouraged that those of you with many more years of having had to endure this, that the 'word' out there is there is 'no hope' for this condition to improve...but only to get worse...that's a big 'sentence' to wrap my head around..since there is such a psych factor embedded in this condition..everyone talks about when we get stressed how much worse we get..I am going to get some more therapy sessions this year, to at least try to unravel some of the life experiences i have had that obviously have played into this, and in the end, precipitated it.My dad was big time bi-polar, undiagnosed, untreated..and the family was very, very compromised because of it ..so i know full well that somewhere in my dna I have all these outcomes affecting me.thanks for writing at length..I appreciate the time you take to do this.sj


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## alwayshappy (Mar 11, 2009)

Sarha Jane,thanks so much for your reply and support!!yes, it was a HUGE relief for me too to find out that i won't need a bag. i was certain that every colectomy surgery ends up with an ostomy for life, but was very happy to find out that with CI it's a totally different oporation!i'm so sorry to have made you feel discouraged.. i don't know, but if the constipation situation doesn't seem to change and you can see there's a continueos deterioration of the symptoms, then it's not ibs, ibs ppl tend to have ups and downs, good days and bad days. in colonic inertia it is just permanent constipation. i guess that's the difference. the prob is that the constipation doesn't even stay the same, it just keep getting worse in time. how long have you been dealing with this prob? i hope you find relief too and feel better!!i sure will keep you updated!! if you also want to read some more about women who had this surgery for CI, you can google "total colectomy part 3" (parts 1-2 are hard to find) - there's a lot of reading to do there. you can also find me there starting from the end of part 19. we're in part 22 now, and there are lots of wonderful women in this forum who are also willing to share their stories. my screen name in that forum is "2b ColonFree" so you can join us at "total colectomy part 22" and learn more about it.good luck to you with everything you do!!


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## Lookin'foraLife (Jan 2, 2009)

Hi alwayshappy, your situation sounds very extreme if even liquids cause you so much pain and discomfort. I can understand why you are considering the surgery and thankfully it sounds like you are in good hands with those doctors. How long is recovery time afterwards?I'm in Meuchedet and best doctor I could find there is Dr. Fraiser who recommended only the capsule endoscopy I had. I agree with you it's irresponsible not to test for functional disorders.


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## Lookin'foraLife (Jan 2, 2009)

For me they mostly tested for organic disorders to rule them out.Perhaps I'll try to make a private appointment with the doctor you recommended since this sounds like his specialty.Let me know how you go on!(And of course good luck in any path you decide to choose!)


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## alwayshappy (Mar 11, 2009)

thanks lookin, you know, if you are interested in a second opinion, then dr Ron Greenberg belongs to meuchedet too!! i highly recomend you go to him, he's truly GREAT!! the phone no. of his secretary for making an appt is 052-6428338, her name is יעל. are you living in Tel-Aviv? cause he's working in כירורגית א' באיכילוב - כירורג בכיר - don't worry.. going to a surgoen doesn't always mean you're going for surgery! just to go through the series of tests and it doesn't matter wether you do it with a gi dr or a colorectal surgoen. believe me, if he doesn't feel you're a candidate for surgery, he won't oporate on you, so don't freek out, o.k?also, i highly recomend you not ask only dr Greenberg's opinion, so i know that dr Oded Zmora and dr Moshe Koler (both from Tel Hashomer) are considered to be 2 of the best in our country - heard about them from so many ppl!! and they are extremely nice more then any other dr i've ever been to and very proffesional too. if i didn't already been to such a progress with my current drs, then i would go to either Zmora or Koler.about the surgery, well it is concidered a huge surgery, one of the biggest surgeries there are in fact. if all goes well, then recovery should be somewhere around 6 weeks, BUT most ppl who went through this surgery say it took them 6 months - year to feel like their normal self again. however, they all got back to their daily activities after 4-6 weeks, for some it has taken a little longer. i'm hoping to bounce back in 6 weeks to the most. i'll keep you updated, and please you do the same, o.k? i'd really like to know how things are going for you.let me know if you go to either drs i've listed - they're all great. tell them your story and if you see they don't order you the tests i told you about, then don't feel embarrassed to ask for them yourself.i wish you the best of luck with everything you do!!


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## alwayshappy (Mar 11, 2009)

you know.. dr Greenberg has his own forum too, it's in www.starmed.co.il, or you can just google פורום פרוקטולוגיה ד"ר רון גרינברג and you'll get just it. just thought you might want to check it out.


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## debibsc (Mar 31, 2009)

alwayshappy said:


> hi all,only 4 out of about 40-50 women i've read about and talked to ended up with an ostomy. i've waited 16 yrs for medical progress to develope.. i'm 36 yrs old and ever since i was 20, my life is not considered a life at all, so i'm SO ready to start living my life again.


Hi alwayshapppy, Sarah Jane,Alwayshappy, did the 4 out of 40-50 women ending with an ostomy have a colorectomy first. Just wondering. I don't like those odds. But I've had a lot go wrong with my health and I've got pretty pessimistic about the whole thing -- not as willing to take chances. But then again no bms without heavy laxatives (and sometimes not even then) has only been a problem for me for 4 years no. Not 16 years like yourself. I'd probably be thinking differently if I'd been dealing with this for 16 years.Sarah Jane,Thanks for your reply. It is great to connect with other people who have this problem to this extent. I will research the things you mentioned. I have to be careful as I have food, chemical, medication intolerances and I need to find out if any natural herb like med has medium or high salicylate content (or other things that could be problematical for me) and if it does it's out. My skin reacts painfully to salicyates in foods and herbs, amongst other things.I was painfree following the colonic irrigation until Sunday morning. Then I got a gut pain across the top of my gut, just under my breasts. I broke out in a sweat from the pain and doubled over (this is not unusual for me) and in pain I went to the toilet and although I had no urge to go I did push out a small amount of bm which led to a relief of the pain (usually I'd get no results at all with this pain). Once again I'm feeling uncomfortable but I'm not completely constipated -- a few pebbles here and there and another small bowel movement. Now I feel like I want to go but just can't. I've got to take the Epsom Salts (mag. sulfate) on Thursday and I'm going to have a ducolax suppository for back up if needed. This time I'm just going to have to up the dose of Epsom Salts which will make me feel like hell for a couple of days afterwards until I'm able to rehydrate my body by drinking lots of fluids. Can't believe I'm saying this but can't wait for next weeks colonic irrigation LOL. Just two and half days of painfree symptom free 'normalcy' was great. And I'm still doing better now than I would be normally. You are right about the cost thought. It's so expensive. But I used to be a smoker a decade ago. I live in Australia and cigarettes are very expensive here and I worked out the other night that a weekly colonic would cost a little less than being a packet a day smoker. So I guess it's going to be my new 'habit.' deb


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## alwayshappy (Mar 11, 2009)

debibsc,all the women with colonic inertia have a certain degree of pelvic floor dysfunction, for some it's more severe than others, but in 90% (according to statistics and i've seen it my self) the pelvic floor dysfunction can be overcome after the colectomy. those women who ended up with an ostomy, only one of them had her rectum removed prior to the ileostomy. it didn't work, so she opted for ileostomy.i'd say 90% success rate is a pretty good rate, and my drs say that although i have a minimal level of pelvic floor dysfunction, it won't bother me after the colectomy, cause women with worse cases of pelvic floor dysfunction than mine went through the colectomy and their results are great, so in my case chances are good i won't need an ostomy. besides, if i stay this way, it won't get bette on it's own and i have a 0% chance to have a life, but if i go for surgery i have 90% chance to finally regain the life i've so missed.but to be honest, i've thought about it A LOT and i've come to the conclusion that even if i end up with an ostomy, that's o.k, cause it'll truly be a better way to live than the way i am now. it sounds like you never had your functional problems figured out yet. to me it sounds like you have a severe obstruction/anatomic problem within the rectum and it could be that a simple procedure can fix that (don't feak out, lol, i mean a simple surgycal procedure in the rectum only and NOT a colectomy). in order to find out what exactly is wrong with your rectum there are tests like defecography, manometry and a u.s of the pelvic. these tests can show exactly wether you have a rectal prolapse, rectocele, enterocele, anismus. i highly recomend you do these tests, cause if it's an anatomic prob, like prolapse/rectocele/enterocele, then it's very important to take care of that and it's only a simple procedure, cause these probs tend to only get worse with time. i'm sorry, and i really don't mean to stress you out, but you see, if the rectum is prolapsed, for example, then no matter what diet you try it won't help, cause it's an anatomic prob that blocks the outlet and in the future even liquids won't be able to go through, cause with all the bearing down it continues to prolapse more and more over the yrs.i had MAJOR rectal prolapse and a small rectocele (due to all those yrs of constipation and bearing down) and i had that fixed 2 yrs ago with the starr procedure (just so you know the starr is good for prolapse and small rectoceles, but not for large rectoceles). before the starr i coulden't pass even liquids and even if i took the strongest laxative, it won't come out. but now when i take yobsalax that still helps some (it's from a health shop in israel), at least now when the stools finally reach the rectum it can pass. having my rectum fixed was a HUGE help, but again it's not enough in my case. but maybe in your case it's only the rectum and not the whole colon, so i'd say it's worth to try and see if that's the case with you. the more you postpone it the more you risk having more probs.i recomend you go to cleveland clinic, they are one of the best and specialize in these probs and have a lot of experience with functional probs in the digestive system, and if i lived in the USA i would defenately go there!i truly wish you the very best with any path you choose!!


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## sarah jane (Apr 1, 2009)

Hi Deb..the epsom salts routine you do sounds pretty awful..to feel so bad for so long after..there are so many oral options to try..I'm still a fan of MOM, as needed, a super generous slug of it..[4 tablspns]or mag citrate tabs..600 to1400mg...do you get miralax in Australia? you can take up to 4 doses in a day.. and it works if you end up taking that much..prune juice, sesame oil,apple cider vinegar..all worth trying..smooth move tea..any product w/cascara..the thing i can't stand more than anything is feeling the need to go and not being able to, so i'll go to any length to get a decent movement...small pebbles, as you described, sounds pitiful, and bearing down a lot is soo bad for the body after a while..enemas can help..so..having weekly colonics sounds like a really important way to go if this can keep you sane..and several colonics will gradually work away at old impactions, if that's what's got you plugged also. you said 'pebbles' so you may have solid back up in there.. A colonic tech told me some people can have up to 20# of old fecal matter in the colon.any body else got ideas re oral stuff that works?sj


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## debibsc (Mar 31, 2009)

Thanks always happy and Sarah-Jane,I've had a number of tests but none that you've mentioned so it's worth looking into, and I will. I do have dysautonomia -- dysfunction of the Autonomic Nervous System (ANS), which involves the sympathetic nervous system, the parasympathetic nervous system and the enteric nervous system. My specific form (although forms overlap so specific may not be the right word is Potsural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome (P.O.T.S). The kicker is in the word 'Syndrome' which simply means a set of symtoms that can also very from person to person with POTS. Besides troule with staying upright and increased heartrate I get daily migraine, skin reactions to many things, growing numbers of allergies, inability for my body to regulate it's temperature properly -- I'm nearly always too hot and walking around in t-shirt when people are in sweaters -- and a colon that stopped working completely 4 years ago. I also have loss of sweating -- although this is returning. The biggest factor in these forms of dysautonomia is that sufferers ( hate that word) have to battle dehydration all the time -- we don't hang onto fluids. This causes a lot of prolems and one of them can be constipation. Because the body is dehydrated not enough water in the body and this extends to the colon of course. So dehydration and also the overaction of the parasympathetic nervous system alone could just be causing my problems. The fact that my ability to sweat is returning a bit after being absent for 6 years in encouraging. And the fact that I can get pebble bms this week is also, believe it or not encouraging -- my gastroentestonal system may just be starting to work again a bit. It IS possilbe then that my 'total' constipation problems will reverse themselves when my autonomic nervous system starts to work once again, in the way it should.We don't have MOM in Australia -- it's pretty much the same stuff as espsom salts but ES is a little stronger, and that's why the ES usually works for me --because it draws all the water from my body into my colon and turns everything to mush and I'm able to go -- usually. Although taking the water away from the rest of my body is heavy duty for my body as despite the huge amounts of water and salt I have to consume to stay hydrated I still easily dehydrate - and this is the worst state a pots person can be in. occasionally Epsom salts has not worked anyway. I'm due to try again tomorrow, larger dose as I said and hopefully it can work.Meanwhile I will ring and ask my gi about the tests you mentioned always happy to see what he has to say. He's a teaching specialist and knows his stuff but POTS and all other forms of dysautonomia have the doctors stumped.Sarah Jane, I havent' tried mag citrate yet. Found it hard to get in Aus so far but will try looking again today. All the other things you mentioned are high in salicylates and thus a no-no for me or I have tried them already. Except senna. Senna causes me to get a lot of pain with little result. It did work when I first started it -- was very effective when taking it with docusate but it only worked properly for a couple of weeks -- thought I'd found the holy grail only to be disappointed.One thing I have noticed about this bowel problem is that the longer it has gone on the more painful taking laxatives have become while losing effectiveness. Plus I have increasing gut pain levels also. And neither of the two gi's I've seen have ever thought to bring up the fact that constipation at this level can cause severe depression due to pain, interruption with a normal life schedule and all the things we have to do just to have a freaking bm. Although my gi assures me I have nothing 'atatomically wrong' he hasn't done the tests that you mentioned, alwayshappy. So I will get back to him about that. BTW, please, if I made you feel defensive about having a colorectomy I did not mean to do so. We know when we've had enough and as I said if I'd had this problem for 16 years like you I'd be exploring this option. I think I read that your docs had already recommended it. My gi (who is also a lecturer in his field at one of our top medical schools) does not do colorectomies and has explained his reasons to me.Your advice to have the other tests was great in my case. However, with the possiblity of the ANS returning to normal or even just symptoms morphing means that constipation may not always be a problem for me. In fact, I could suddenly kick into diarrehea mode if that sympathetic nervous systems stops 'underacting' (or in my case not acting) and kicks into overdrive or if the parasympathetic nervous system stops overworking and and slows down I could even see a return to normal. Either systems make up the larger ANS, as does the enteric system. This has happened to at least one other person with dys that I know of. Although if it continues and things become totally impossible to move along then I will have to rethink things. POTS can occur once and last for a couple of months or years never to occur again or it can wax and wane through your life or it can be the precuser to Pure Autonomic Failure which is a bit more serious. One in ten people with POTS go onto develop Multiple Systems Atrophy and that's curtains, unfortunately. I don't think this is going to happen to me and either does my pots specialist as I've had symptoms of pots (although only diagnosed with it not quite 3 years ago) on and off all through my life. They used to tell me it was 'all in my head' until I found some really top excellent docs who realized it couldn't possibly be all in my head. I'm very grateful to them for recognizing I do have this illness but I damn well wish they could come up with some permanent solutions to the many symptoms -- the constipation just being one of a number of symptoms. But dys docs just don't know enough about it yet even though much research is going on.Hope this all makes sense. Thank you to both of your imput, I really appreciate it and as I said will ask the gi about those added tests and try the mag. citrate (which as far as I can work out is magnesium with vitamin C or ascorbic acid -- is that right sarah-jane?).The whole thing is very complex. But what about our bodies isn't complex?deb


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## alwayshappy (Mar 11, 2009)

gosh deb, this whole thing sure is complex. i was so sorry to read about all of your probs, i wish you much health!!that's o.k deb, i can totally understand ppl's reluctance to a colectomy for...... CONSTIPATION!!! it DOES seem too extreme for a prob like constipation, doesn't it? but what can i say.. sometimes when the constipation it self is extreme, then the measure that should be taken is also extreme and i'm not the first one to go through this. so don't worry, your reaction and also sarah's and lookin's reaction is totally understandable to me, i didn't expect you guys to just say "oh yeah, surgery.. great!!" ha ha. seriously, in your case there are so many issues involved, and i don't know nothing about all of those symptoms and probs you've mentioned, so your drs really need to take everything into thorough consideration before deciding anything, but one thing is for sure is that those tests i've mentioned can sure help to figure out how exactly your whole system functions, so it is important to have those tests.i wish you the very best and i hope your drs can figure you out soon. take care and please keep us posted on your progress.


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## debibsc (Mar 31, 2009)

Hi 'Always Happy,Sometimes I just wonder if I wish things on myself or if I intuit that something is going to change in regards to my body. I menntioned that symptosm can suddenly morph and now they have! I've gone from complete constipation to numerous bowel movements a day since I last posted. They are small, loose and sticky. Thin mostly, too. And I've been having to wake up during the night to go. And the bms are so sticky I have to shower afterwards. I cant' leave the house because if I need to have a bm when I'm out it's impossible to get clean -- baby wipes etc, I"ve tried everything -- unless I have a shower. I'm also getting the urge to have a bm after I eat and do so. Sometimes I get the urge to go and it's just huge fart. And sometimes when I go to urinate if I just bear down I'll have a bm. I rang my gi last week and told him what was going on and he wants to do another colonoscopy because 'he doesn't like the sound of this' but did add it could just be another 'red herring' (false leads, for god's sake, I've had a gutfull of them. So, I'm scheduled for the colonoscopy the 6th June and it's going to be done in a hospital rather than a day surgery because of my autonomic nervous system disorder. I've been having about 12 bms a day/night. And 12 showers too, bloody hell.Altough yesterday it started to slow down a bit. Not sure why. I've had a cold (woke with it yesterday morning) and have found that lying down in bed with it seems not to activate the bm problem as much. by slowing down generally it's slowed down my bowel. Or maybe I'm on my way back to being totally constipated again.I"ve got gut pain with it. Not the usual super intense one I usually have on my right side upper abdomen that lasts up to an hour and then goes away. This one is across the top of my abdomin and dull and lasts for hours. It's like it's pushing out. that pain started last week. I dreamed that I had swallowed a hammer?? Woke up straight after that dream and it does feel like there is something large there filling me up and pushing out my gut. As I said it's a dull pain and pretty persistant. Not there all the time but have it a lot. When I do have it I dont' feel like eating but sometimes I will be able to eat something and the pain will ease, but not all the time. I'd rather be totally constipated than have this. It's not so much that I'm having so many bowel movements. It's the difficulty I'm having afterwards in cleaning myself. I just CANT get clean unless I have a shower. And often then I will check my underpants 15 minutes later only to find them soiled a bit. Have started lining my undies with tissues. It's not liquid soiling. It's real 'skid marks' as my husband would call them. I'm going to post this under a new topic to see if anyone has anything to offer in way of advice.


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