# Insomnea Can't sleep so tired



## Guest (Mar 31, 2009)

I have had IBS-D for about 20 years.About 12 years ago I began having anxiety attacks.I wonder if it was brought on by my crazy IBS attacks ? I just don't know.So my doctor , at that time , put me on Lorazepam (Ativan) for my anxiety issue's.It eventually stopped helping me. The doctor said to keep taking it anyway , as it can prevent future attacks.So I have been on this for 12 long years.My current doctor wants me off this nasty medication.The limit dose is 4 mg's daily. So I was weaned down to 2 mg's daily , then down to 1 mg. daily , and now down to just 1/2 mg. daily.I think I am going into with drawals.I feel like hell. I can't sleep at all. I am so tired I could just drop.So I looked up the withdrawal symptoms for this drug , and sure enough , one of the symptoms is > Insomnea.I talked to my pharmacist and he said you can even have seizures from with drawals from this med. God forbid that happen.Be really carefull if you start taking these type medications. What you think might be a helpfull medication can cause you harm down the road.I am now living proof of that mistake.


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## cherrypie09 (Jan 20, 2009)

Oh. Glenda I am sorry to hear that. I too suffer with IBS-D for 9 years, I started on amitriptyline 10mg at night didnt help with the IBS-D, But now i am taking Mirtazapine 30 mg at night for severe anxiety, (caused by not coping with the IBS-D very well). I do sympathize with you. IBS-D or any IBS is a living hell, wish there was a cure.


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## Guest (Mar 31, 2009)

Thankyou for your reply cherrypie , oh boy am I sick , I have been throwing up and in between times , I am having to go to the bathroom. Thankgoodness it isn't straight water D. It is actually just normal movements , but alot of them.I WISH I never would have allowed my old doctor to put me on Lorazepam (Ativan) for anxiety attacks.This has caused me nothing but Hell trying to get off the stuff.I don't know if the anxiety was a result of my IBS-D or not.But I see many of you have anxiety brought on by your IBS , so I guess this could be a possibility for my case.I really feel like I am going into some kind of bad with drawals from the low dose of this med.And with Insomnea being a with drawal symptom , I am sooooooooo Tired and cannot fall asleep no matter what.It's like my brain is running a million miles an hour and won't shut up and close down so I can sleep.I almost wish I had a strong sleeping pill to take. But I refuse to get started taking that type medication either.All I want to be on is my acid reflux med's (Zantac 150 & Protonix) and my medication for my atrophic pancreas (Pancreas MT-20 ). And Imodium when my D is Bad.I would kill for 8 hours of sleep. I am falling on my face , I could just drop.Life is hell at times*


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## cherrypie09 (Jan 20, 2009)

Hang in there Glenda, i am sure it can only get better.


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## Guest (Mar 31, 2009)

Thankyou , you are so sweet , (Just like cherrypie) smile*


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Tapering down rather than cold turkey should prevent the severe side effects. I would try to not be so certain you are at a high risk for the very worst things happening to you. Worrying about (and trying to make sure you know the very worst thing that could happen) the rare worst case scenario when you are doing the right thing to prevent it won't help with the anxiety or the insomnia.The best thing to do when starting a drug or ending a drug when you might get some insomnia is be really strict with your sleep hygiene.Get up at the same time of day no matter what time you finally fell asleep.Do not take naps. If you have to nap limit the nap to 20 minutes one time a day.Do not drink any caffeine after noon.Take a warm shower or bath about an hour before you want to go to bed.Avoid exercise or other stimulating activity for 2-3 hours before you want to go to bed.Make sure the room is cool, dark, and quiet.Do not read or do other activities in bed. Train yourself that the bed is for sleeping only (sex is OK, but nothing else)Dim the lights for a couple of hours before you want to go to bed (turn off over head lights and use a small lamp).If you haven't fallen asleep after about 45 minutes or so of laying down get out of bed. Do something really boring and quite with the least amount of light possible until you feel sleepy again.If you know any relaxation techniques doing those at bed time can help. Progressive muscle relaxation or a nice visualization can be really helpful to give your mind something that does not interfer with going to sleep that also doesn't stimulate you too much.


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## Guest (Apr 3, 2009)

I got no sleep again last night. I am so tired I could drop.I do go to bed at the same time every night. And I usually get up at the same time , because by then I can feel the "D" rushing down my intestinal tract and I need to head for the bathroom.I don't do anything before bed. Usually just watch tv in dark living room.When I go to bed , it is to sleep , not do anything else at all.But no matter how hard I try , I can't fall asleep.I am still on 1/2 mg. nightly for my anxiety med (Lorazepan :aka- Ativan ) The withdrawal symptoms for coming off this med. can be Insomnia. But is this the case ?My Neurologist told me Not to bother going for a sleep study , he said you will not be able to sleep if you are in a strange bed , at a strange place and you are having insomnia anyway. Plus I couldn't sleep attached to all the wires.I don't want to start taking sleep aide perscriptions. That is not a good thing to rely on. But I am almost to the point that I would be willing to try that. Years ago I tried Ambien CR and it did nothing. My pharmacist said Lunesta might help and ask the doctor. I don't know what to do !I am just so tired all I want to do is sleep , 8 hours would be great. As a child I would sleep 12 hours. Now if I get 2 I am lucky. I really look bad physically.


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2009)

Well I will not be getting any sleep tonight either. I am mad as a wet hornet now.I went to crawl in bed tonight , and my elderly German Sheppard female (Becky) was laying on my side of the bed next to my sleeping husband , well , poor Becky is 16 and has a leakey bladder , and my side of the bed is Wet down to the sheets.I am soooooooooooo upset I could cry. I am really tired from not sleeping thursday night due to my Insomnia , and now I won't get any sleep tonight because my side of the bed is damp.I will have to stay up all night and wash the sheets and blankets after my husband leaves for work in the early morning hours.Why is life so cruel ?


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

Wait.. it gets better during the "change". (oy....) I have been battling this (insomnia) for as long as I can remember. And now.. approaching and tip-toeing into the "change" it's a true joy. NOT!But what _you_ are experiencing is time limited.... It is probably MORE than likely from the withdrawal of that med. You were on that for a real long time. And your body is VERY used to it.. so it *will* take some time to get it UN-used to it.Some things I have learned from dealing with this...**All* of what Kathleen said up there is good to do.*It never helps me to get upset or angry about it. That _always_ prolongs getting to sleep for me. (So like tonight I'd try to get UNangry as soon as you can. The poor dog doesn't know you are having so much trouble. But I would invest in a Dog Bed for this old one. (An easy to wash one...) And keep the dog _out_ of the bedroom til you are ready to get into bed yourself. So this doesn't happen again. AT least til you are done with the withdrawal symptoms I'd keep the old gal out of your bed.) *I find "static" type noise helps me sometimes... like a simple sound machine.. or putting on soft relaxing music (like instrumental stuff only) or even a fan running in the warmer weather. Or use an Ipod etc... if you have one. *I try to get to sleep and if I can't.. I get up and read. If that isn't helping, I do more mindless boring stuff...solitaire etc>>>*Imagery.. I use imagery to create a nice relaxing scene in my mind and I just put myself into that scene. (I'm partial to nice walks on the beach of my imagination's making... This forces my mind OFF of the day's events & activities and those of tomorrow... lol I can't be on the beach and making a mental grocery list at the same time.... lol)*Start EARLY to get your body ready for sleep. (Like an hour or two) Nice warm shower... or bath... followed by mindless, quiet, relaxing things to do. The earlier you start... sometimes the faster you get to sleep.Now granted... these things don't ALWAYS work for me. But I know _eventually_ (some night...







) I _will_ get a decent night's sleep and it hasn't killed me yet... so I doubt it will. LOL Look Glenda, you are _almost_ there with the withdrawal.... so stick with it. What you are dong IS hard, Acknowledge that to yourself. And pat yourself on the back a bit. This is definitely NOT an easy thing to do. But you *are* indeed doing it.







BUT DO call your Doc and ask if there is anything you can do to help you right now to get you through this. I mean it might be ok with him/her if you take like a Sleep MD type of thing etc... But you won't know til you ask.And for the remainder of tonight.... try the good old couch. At least it is dry... Keep us posted.(((((hugs)))))BQ


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## alabama231 (Feb 2, 2009)

I thought it was only me that suffered from insomnia! I have so much difficulty getting to sleep! Like 2 or 3 hours, and if I do get to sleep I toss and turn so my sleep is never restful, I wake up feeling like a zombie and struggle to make it through the day! Especially by 2.30 / 3pm I literally just sit slumped at my desk because I have no energy!I often try reading but as soon as I feel like Im ready to drop off, I put my book down, turn off the small bedside light and wake up again!!I cant take sleeping pills because they all say they're not suitable for asthmatics!Frustrating!


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2009)

When I found my side of the bed was damp (Blankets to sheets) I went out and layed down on the couch till my husband got up and went to work at 1:30 am. Then I went in and layed on his side of the bed and was able to sleep about 2 1/2 hours this morning. After that , I got up and am washing everything off the bed.Thru out the years I've noticed I go thru bad periods of Insomnia. This was long before my doctor told me to wean off my Ativan (Lorazepam) anxiety medication.But since I was weaned from 1 mg. nightly , down to 1/2 mg. nightly , I notice I really have bad insomnia. That's just been the last week that it has gotten bad again. And with one of the withdrawal symptoms being Insomnia , I guess this is what's happening to me. (??)This morning when I got out of bed , I could feel my intestines starting to feel funny and I knew I better head for the bathroom pretty quick.Thankfully it was just a normal movement. Not bad "D" . yet.Thankyou to everyone for their thoughtfull suggestions. I appreciate it alot.


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2009)

Hi Glenda - I don't really have IBS but I have battled with insomnia and you have nothing but my sympathy. I've been on an SSRI derivative anti-depressant and have been well for 3 years now - having been hospitalised with suicidal depression. I'm on mitrazapene and apart from weight gain - which I can live with - I'm very well and have no problems no sleeping - except for my husband's snoring which drives me into the spare room.Its scarey I'm sure trying to wean off any type of anti-depressant medication but I'm sure if you are doing this gradually and with proper support and supervision you shouldn't experience seizures - that seems most unlikely.You want to be careful - you really don't want to go with disturbed sleep for too long. If you can't cope with anti-d medication - perhaps a short course of diazipan or something - though its addictive so probably 2 weeks at most. Other than that - try and adopt a healthy sleep regime - regular bedtimes, a hot drink and a hot bath before bed and maybe look into some sort of relaxation techniques as well.Good luckSue


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2009)

I don't have any depression problems ,I just started having anxiety attacks about 12 years ago , so my old doctor at that time put me on Anxiety medication (Not anti depressant med). It helped for quite awhile but then quit. But the doctor told me to take it anyway to ward off future attacks. So like the dummy I am , I have. I have batteled with bouts of Insomnia for afew years , that I can recall. I think the longest I have gone without sleep is 5 days. Back then I was still on 4 mg's of my anxiety medication. So what was causing the bad Insomnia ? Now , sine I am being weaned off the anxiety med , to the lowest dose available , my Insomnia has really gotten bad. It's only been the last week that I was switched to the low dose for this medication. And it's only been the last week that the bad Insomnia has occured. That's why I looked up the withdrawal symptoms for this medication , and found Insomnia is a symptom of coming off of it.I desperatly want to stop this medication completely. But if I do , is my Insomnia going to explode 10 fold and I won't sleep for a week or longer ? I know I should not worry about the "What if's" , but when you go for Days on end with No Sleep , you get to the point when you feel like you are going to collapse and get really ill.I look really Bad. I look like I haven't slept in weeks and I am pale and guant looking. It's all I can do to get off the couch and run to the bathroom when my "D" explodes almost on a daily basis.For those of you that suffer with Insomnia , you really have my deepest sympathy. Going sleepless for long periods of time is devestating.And then being sick with IBS-D is adding insult to injury.


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## baz22p (Dec 1, 2008)

Hi Glenda, I used to have severe trouble with being able to sleep - dangerously so, I used to do the school run twice a day and I felt unsafe while behind the wheel. I told by GP about this, and he prescribed Amitriptyline and Citalopram. These are anti-depressants that work well for IBS; but more importantly, I have had good sleep since I started with them. Infact, I now find it difficult to wake-up at times - now, I often have to have a nap in the afternoon....due to the sudden onset of extreme fatigue: but please note......this has never happened while I am doing something; it usually happens when I stop for lunch. I would rather be like I am now than be like I used to be, because it does mean that I can often do things when I am awake. If you are tired all the time, it is very difficult to be motivated. You have my sympathy with this.Baz


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2009)

Sorry - you've lost me - as far as I'm aware - anxiety and depression go hand in hand and I'd have thought anti-anxiety medication and anti-ds are much of a muchness. The trouble is - you can get yourself into a state about sleep problems and they almost become a self-fulfilling prophesy - in other words - you start to panic that you won't sleep - and guess what - you won't.Sue


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

True enough about the self fulfilling prophecy Sue. That's why I try never to get upset about not being able to fall asleep. I don't look at the clock once I am in trying to get to sleep mode. However.. antiD's and anxiety meds are two _very_ different things, designed to do different things. So I would not necessarily lump them together as one. Some people just need an anti-D and others need JUST an anti anxiety. Some folks experience JUST anxiety and not depression. Others experience JUST depression and NOT anxiety. But many others do experience both. Hence why many folks seem to be on both types of meds. But they are indeed for different purposes.Glenda I'm glad you got _some_ sleep last night. Just keep at it and stop clock watching.... don't worry about it at all if you can help it. That will only make it harder to fall alseep. You are getting there with the withdrawal and give your Doc a call and ask him what else you can do about the insomnia to get you through the last lil bit of withdrawal.((((Hugs))))BQ


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2009)

Sorry - I don't buy into this at all - if you are chronically anxious - aren't you by definition depressed - I'd say so - I certainly was.Anyway - I get cross when folk say "oh I'm not depressed, just chronically anxious - COME ON - they are the same thing".Back to whoevers thread this was.Sue


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2009)

When I would get Anxiety attacks , I would Sweat , heart race , pace the floor , and feel like something dreadfull was about to occure. To me , this is NOT Depression ! This is Panic of some form.I am not anxious , it was Panic , kinda like standing in front of a Rattle Snake that is ready to strike and bite you.Now when my sister dropped dead out of the clear blue in 1983 , I was very sad and down in the dumps and I told my doctor , at that time , and He said that is sign's of Depression. That's when he gave me an Rx. for 25 mg. Amitryptaline , I took one and it made me vomit badly , and then I lost my complete memory and surrounds for one week. I never took another anti depressant again.The anxiety medication has lost all of it's effectivness , so my current doctor wants me off of it.I was originally on 4 mg's nightly. But I was weaned to 2 mg's nightly , and then 1 mg. nightly , and now 1/2 mg. nightly.I don't know if I am having WITHDRAWAL or not ????? I just looked the symptoms up on Google ,and it says Insomnia is one of the symptoms of coming off of it. This is why I have just assumed my inability to sleep now is a result of coming off of it.I haven't had an issue at all with Depression since my sister passed away in 1983. I feel in a good mood and good spirits all of the time. I get abit consirned about my on-going IBS-D that reaks havoc on me all the time though.I really feel Anxiety (Panic) and Depression are 2 totally different issue's. My opinion only though. And I feel depression medication and Anxiety medication are also unrelated. Again , my opinion only.


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Some medications do treat both anxiety and depression. Many of the antidepressants are used to treat anxiety because they are considered to be safer than tranquilizers, because there is less of an addiction issue.Anxiety is usually considered a different disorder than depression even if some of the same medications treat both. However a lot of people have both anxiety and depression.Often the symptoms of withdrawl are the exact same as the symptoms of the disorder being treated so I don't think they ever know 100% which is the issue. However if it fades a week or two after you are all they way free and clear of the drug I think you can be fairly certain it was the withdrawl rather than the disease is still as bad as it ever was.


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## Guest (Apr 5, 2009)

Sorry - a night's sleep later and I realise I probably sounded very rude - you are struggling and the last thing you need is me laying down the law. At the end of the day - its all vocabularly anyway - whats important is that you find a treatment that suits.I'm sorry, I get over-prickly about "shame" and being a depressive - but thats my problem and not yours and I sincerely hope you find the help you need.Sue


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## Guest (Apr 6, 2009)

Hello , it's Monday morning and I only got 1 Hour of sleep over night. (Between 4 and 5 am)This is becomming Insane. I am sooooooooo Tired.Why is this happening to me ? I don't understand this at all !When I go to bed by 9 am I am exhausted , and all I do is toss and turn.I stay in bed because I am tired and cold. I get up by 6 am and I feel like I am going to drop to the floor.My Neurologist told me Not to bother with going for a sleep study because he said you won't sleep in a strange bed , at a strange place , and hooked up to tons of wires , specially if you have bad insomnia.So , what do I do ?Help , any thoughts ????


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

This is because of the _withdrawal_.Yes we have given you some ideas. If none of the suggestions we made are helping you,_CALL_ your Doc and let him know how much trouble you are having and ask him for his advice.All the bestBQ


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## Guest (Apr 6, 2009)

I do take Hot baths before bed. Can't drink hot milk , deathly alletgic to it.I would love to have a shot of Booze , but can't , your not allowed to drink without a Gall Bladder anymore.Your body is unable to process that. I don't like booze anyway.I did speak to my doctor and she said go for a sleep study .My Neurologist said Do Not go for a sleep study. You won't be able to sleep in a strange bed , place , and with tons of wires on you. Specially if you are going thru Insomnia anyway.Now , is this WITHDRAWAL , from cutting the dose to the lowest amount for my anxiety med ?Possibly ????????But , I have Had Insomnia Long Before I ever stopped taking the 4 mg's nightly and reduced it to 1/2 mg. nightly.So , Maybe this isn't WITHDRAWAL.What else could do this ?I just don't know.I do notice when I go to bed at night , my brain races 1000 miles an hour and I am thinking things and songs get stuck in my head from listening to the radio , and I can't get my brain to close itself down and relax and not think about anything at all.This has become very frustrating.And then to make my mornings worse , I get up , and have to run for the bathroom because my "D" starts for several hours.Thankyou for all your advice and suggestions.


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## Thai (Aug 22, 2007)

Since this is an IBS Board, maybe you would get better answers to your insomnia issues on an Insomnia Board??Just a thought??I can appreciate your dilemma as I have not had a full nights sleep in about 20 years.....







Hope you find what works for you.Thai


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## Guest (Apr 6, 2009)

I did try going to an Insomnia Board awhile back , and all people told me to do was Take Sleeping Pills , or drink a shot of whiskey before bed.For me , this is Not the remedy to my situation.The reason I posted Insomnia on this board is because My IBS-D occures all hours of the day and night.I have spent countless Nights in the bathroom because of severe D. There fore , I get No sleep.


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

Good thought Thai. The Doc that was prescribing that med to you told you to go for a "Sleep study"??! Please.. And that Doc KNOWS you are withdrawing from that med???How can this Doc be THAT clueless if they know you are coming down off that med?? That's almost unbelievable. Ya might want to look into getting a different Doc... sheesh.It's the withdrawal.. more than likely! BQ


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## Guest (Apr 6, 2009)

Hang on a mo - sorry, I'm getting abit lost here - did you say you only really started battling with insomnia when you tried to wean off the anti'ds. Can I be the little boy in the Emperor's New Clothes then - why are you coming off the anti-depressants. I think you really have to be pragmatic about this - I don't really want to be on my anti-d's either - and yes, I'm overweight - but weighing this up against months and months of insomnia, chronic depression, self-loathing and general HELL - I'll stay on my medication til I drop dead rather than this.I had literally FIVE MONTHS WITHOUT A WINK OF SLEEP. Its horrendous and terrible for your mental well-being. I don't know whether you'd consider a short-course of sleeping tablets - just to try and reintroduce healthy sleep patterns.Forgive me - but you don't seem to want to take any advice on-board - just download all the reasons why you can't do all the things suggested to you. Why then, with all due respect - do you continue to post here?Sue


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

Well actually Sue I believe Glenda is weaning off an anti-anxiety med. And yes... her insomnia seems to have worsened since.However she had a history of it before she began the anti-anxiety med.And truth is Glenda.. perhaps Sue is right... you may need to be on a short term course of a sleeping aid to get you through this time.The racing thoughts etc... could be just from the withdrawal or it could be anxiety. But without you speaking _again_ and _explaining clearly_ and IN detail what is going on with you with your Doc.. or _some_ Doc... we really can't guide you much more here.Also.. consider this.. you just may _need_ to be on some sort of medication..period. And there is NO shame in that. Also you might want to consider seeing a counsellor for some talk therapy as they may be able to help you deal with the racing thoughts etc or the underlying reason for them.All the bestBQ


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## Thai (Aug 22, 2007)

GlendaMight I add that all boards are not created equal?Tho the one you did go to was not the right fit for you perhaps the next one will be, or the one after that?Like IBS, insomnia is a many faceted issue and if there was one fix for all there would be no need for any of us to be here.You have to decide what your priorities are, what you are willing to do to help yourself, what you are willing to live with and what you are NOT willing to live with.It's all checks and balances, a fishing expedition to find YOUR fix.All anyone else can do is offer tips and advice, strategies and support.But you need to do the work to figure out the reasoning behind what is going on with you........with or without medical help.Thai


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## Guest (Apr 6, 2009)

I was having Insomnia long before I ws told by my doctor to gradually wean off the ANTI-ANXIETY Med (Not Anti-Depressant med).So this is what makes me wonder > Is it a withdrawal symptom ?I am beginning to think it's not , since I was sleepless long before I went from 4 mg's down to 1/2 mg. nightly.In regards to my brain racing FAST when I go to bed , I find that if I listen to the radio during the day and songs are playing , my mind records the damn song and I am singing it to myself all the time , because I liked the song.Why I do this is a mystery.My primary care doctor felt that a sleep study might shed some light on this.But the Neurologist told me That if you have insomnia , there is No way you'll be able to sleep in a strange bed , place and having all sorts of wires attached to you.And I really thought about that , and I tend to believe him.I do not have a problem with feeling Anxious in any way. I just ocassionaly get Panic (anxiety) attacks.The panic attack for me would be like someone standing in front of a Rattler that was going to bite you.That is the kinda panic I get. To me , anxious would be , being overly excited to do something special.Now inregards to relaxation techniques , that might be something that could help me , maybe , don't know.Wouldn't know untill I tried it.I know I will kinda panic when I have explosive "D" and there is No bathroom in sight for 30 miles or more.Then I fill my pants.The doctor is Not worried about me coming off the ANTI-Anxiety medication because It's being reduced gradually over several months time. It's Not like I quit cold turkey.I spoke to the Pharmacist and asked if I will have any problems coming off the 1/2 mg's , and he said No I should not as that is the lowest dose. He said the first 2 or 3 days after completely stopping it , you might feel abit shakey , but that is all.I hope that holds true !Thanks to everyone for their replys.


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

Well I hope so too. BTW Ativan isn't usually the med of choice for Panic Disorders... but.. too late for that now I guess. But do keep that for future reference.Here is some info:http://www.nami.org/Template.cfm?Section=B...ContentID=23050Cognitive Behavioral Therapy specific to panic disorder might be something to look into as that has been shown to help if you are looking for help without the use of meds.All the best (and hopefully some good sleep real soon.)BQ


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## Guest (Apr 7, 2009)

I did go to see a Cog. Be. Therapist one time, and the therapist recommened that I purchase their Relaxation tapes and listen to them when I feel as though I am going to have a panic attack.She said sit in a dark room , as that can help too.She wanted $39.99 per tape and they came in a set of 6.My insurance would not cover that , so I wasn't able to purchase the tape set.The therapist also suggested Meditation. To be Honest , I don't see How Meditation would work ??? Never tried that.My husband suggested going outside and taking a walk if I feel like I am going to have a panic attack.I've tried that , and that helps alot. Also I've found if I get in my car and go for a short drive , it helps me to feel better.Thankyou for your thoughtfull replys.


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Meditation is a relaxation technique.I don't see why you think one relaxation technique will work but another one can't.A technique called "The Relaxation Response" is an extremely basic meditation. Say the word one every time you exhale, do it sitting in a comfortable position in a quiet place. You can either close your eyes, or have them half open but not focused on anything in particular. Let go of any thought that comes up and go back to saying one every time you exhale. Do that for 15 minutes a day (and you can do it a couple of times a day). You can say one out loud but most people just do it quietly to themselves.Does it matter if you call that "meditation" or "relaxation"?


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## Guest (Apr 7, 2009)

See thats the trouble with any kind of mental illness - what might work a dream for one, might be less than effective for somebody else. Only you can "suck it and see" and find things that help you.I still maintain that you need to address this insomnia as a matter of urgency - I don't know whether you've ever tried a short-course of sleeping tablets - but you need SOMETHING to start some healthy sleeping patterns don't you.It is a miserable state of affairs and there are no easy answers. If I really have a battle with sleep (and its rare nowadays) - I find retreating to the sofa in the living room, away from my snoring husband helps alot. There is nothing more depressing, trying to get to sleep when your better half is fast asleep beside you.Good luckSue


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## Guest (Apr 7, 2009)

To be Honest , I didn't know there was a difference between Meditation and Relaxation.I though it basically was the same thing.When I couldn't afford the Rexaxation tapes , she told me to try simple mediatation.I haven't tried either. So I don't know how I would respond to either technique.I wonder if I were to look on line and see what kind of relaxation tapes were available to buy and I got one , if that could help me if I were to have a panic attack come on.The doctor was pretty sure the relaxation tapes could help me. I just couldn't afford her set of 6 at $39.99 per tape , plus tax.I have heard that YOGA is a form of Relaxation , is this true ?How do you do that ? I will have to GOOGLE it and see what they say.I am willing to try anything if it could help me when I get a panic attack.When I bad day's with "D" , and I have to run for the bathroom , and pray I get there before I mess myself , is that form of panic the same as a regular panic attack ? I'm not sure.I never start sweating , and start breathing fast , and pace the floor in a "D" episode.I just have to "Go" , and "GO" now.I appreciate everyone's thoughts on this issue.


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## Guest (Apr 7, 2009)

Sue , I don't feel I have a Mental illness at all. No one has even suggested that. I don't need anti-depressants , I'm not Depressed. I am always in a good mood and my spirits are always good too. Inregards to my Insomnia , Sometimes I get so tired I wish I did have a sleeping pill to take.But I am trying to get off medication , not start taking new ones.


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## Guest (Apr 7, 2009)

You have panic attacks and insomnia - and you don't have a mental illness - hmmmm. Well you can dress it up anyway you like but from where I'm standing, you have problems - its how to address them I suppose that counts.Sue


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## Guest (Apr 7, 2009)

Sue , I would have to hear it directly from a doctor , and have them tell me that it is a Mental Illness when you have Insomnia and ocassional Panic attacks.Untill they are the one's to tell me this , I won't belive this to be the case.How is Insomnia a mental illness ?How is a panic attack a mental illness ? I'm not sure about what you said.


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## Guest (Apr 7, 2009)

AHF , Thankyou very much for the great detailed explination for Relaxation / Meditation techniques.I will gladly give it a try.


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## Guest (Apr 9, 2009)

Well "a mental illness" isn't easy to define but I'd say insomnia and panic attacks are certainly aspects and strong indicators that somebody is mentally ill. Why is that so terrible anyway. I hate this stigma thats attached to it - I'm chronically mentally ill - that doesn't stop me being happy, loving life, working, being a pretty decent mum and wife but I know I have chronic depression - its well addressed but its still an illness. You don't mean to tell me that panic attacks and chronic insomnia come within the remit of somebody who does not have a mental illness?I'm very much of the "call a spade a bloody spade" school of thought - I'm not a doctor - but since I've had a mental illness all my adult life (though it was only formally diagnosed in early 2006) - I reckon I'm pretty well qualified to comment.Sue


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Mental illness does have a particularly bad reputation and a lot of people try to do anything to keep from getting one of those labels. Heck I had biofeedback for migraines but it counts as mental health treatment and a lot of people will pay the full price in cash rather than have that show up on their insurance forms.Mental illness doesn't mean you have a complete break with reality. You don't have to be psychotic with hallucinations and stuff to be mentally ill. Panic Attacks/Anxiety are both considered to be in the spectrum of mental illnesses rather than physical illnesses. Panic attacks are not ordinary nervousness that every one has. They are pretty common, but common doesn't mean it isn't an illness. If the anxiety or panic is bad enough to interfere with normal life then they are worth getting treated rather than just pretending it is normal rather than an illness.Insomnia is a common symptom for a lot of mental illnesses. Most of them (from very mild to severe) interrupt the functioning of the brain enough to cause problems with sleep. Often how the sleep is disrupted can provide clues as to which problem a person is having.


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## Guest (Apr 9, 2009)

I can see where a Panic attack "could" be a form of a mental illness , possibly.But , Insomnia , I personally don't feel that is a form of a mental condition.I just look at it as The Inability to fall asleep. Why can't I sleep ? I don't know.I have been getting 3 to 4 hour's of sleep at night now.I wish it were more.Would I personally say I think I have some form of a mental condition ? NO I would Not.A doctor would have to tell me that because of the above issue's that IS regarded as a mental condition.I can see where Depression might be regarded as a mental illness.But , I am not qualified to make this diagnosis. A doctor does that.A friend of mine use to work At Western State mental hospital here in Washington state , and she said everyone that she saw on the ward They were out right insane. They'd beat their heads on the wall. Bite themselves. Bite other people. Kick , scratch , hit. Now this I would definatly consider a Mental condition.So if my 2 above problems are mental , then it has to be the mildest form of it.


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## Thai (Aug 22, 2007)

Glenda,It is just that thinking that perpetuates the stigma attached to mental health issues.ONE DOES NOT HAVE TO BE A RAVING LUNATIC TO HAVE A MENTAL HEALTH CONDITION!!!!!!No, I am not a doctor, BUT my career for over 32 years was with special needs children and adults in a facility that at one time housed over 3000 of these individuals.So, I think I can safely say I do know what I am talking about.Why are you soooo adamant that Panic Attacks are not mental health related?Thai


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## baz22p (Dec 1, 2008)

Glenda, I hope you don't mind me adding another point.......Panic attacks may be a mental illness, we don't need to reiterate about that.Insomnia may not be a mental illness in itself, but it is the cause that needs to be questioned. Your view: 'But , Insomnia , I personally don't feel that is a form of a mental condition.I just look at it as The Inability to fall asleep. Why can't I sleep ? I don't know.'.....may be a perfectly reasonable one, but nobody can say whether the cause is rooted in a state of 'mental health issues'.Please note that I've used the term 'may' very carefully because, as stated by us all, we are not doctors (including me).For instance: if your lack of sleep is due to the fear of further panic attacks (very reasonable and understandable) - and it is accepted that panic attacks are of a variety of metal illness - then you need to be open to say that you are not sleeping due to a mental disorder. On the other hand, your 'not sleeping' may be due to something else, in which case this may not be the situation at all. But here lies the tough one.....WHY are you not sleeping? Perhaps the best way to approach this issue is to work with a doctor who can give you a firm diagnosis that you will believe.What ever hapens, I wish you well, and I hope you get sorted soon, because I know from when I was having poor sleep just how awful ths is.Baz


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## Guest (Apr 9, 2009)

Oh for god's sake - am I a raving lunatic (well OK OK) - I hold down an incredibly demanding and stressful job as a housing advocate, I deal with very vulnerable and challenging people, I rush about after 3 children, I work as a volunteer guide at a local heritage mill, I walk my dog, run my house, have a wide circle of friends and I think I could say without sounding hideously conceited that I'm abit of a jolly life and soul of the party girlie but I am mentally ill - I have absolutely NO problem fessing up to that - its perfectly possible to operate very successfully with a mental illness but I hate the fact that we're still stigmatised and seen as less than human beings; Stephen Fry, Carrie Fisher, Richard Dreyfuss, Winston bloody Churchill all battled with mental illnesses and I'd say to a man (and woman) they are pretty dam spectacular people - and I'm proud to be in their number health-wise.Sorry - this is veering off the point.Sue


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## Guest (Apr 9, 2009)

I really appreciate everyone's Input on this issue.Not being a doctor , I am Not Qualified to say if my 2 health problem's are mentally related.They very well "could" be ???Originally my Insomnia was a result of being up at night with bad bouts of diarrhea.Then it just progressed to > Not being able to sleep from time to time.I still don't know why I have trouble sleeping.My Neurologist was the one that said don't waste your time going for a sleep study. You won't be able to sleep because your in a strange bed , place and with lots of wires on you. And I really felt He was probably right about this. So I haven't gone for a sleep study.My sleeping has improved. I am getting about 3 to 4 hours at night. So that is better then none at all.My panic attacks have almost completely gone away. And I feel better. That is another reason my primary care doctor wants me off the anxiety med. I am on the lowest possible dose now.Is a Panic attack a form of mental illness ? Well , yeah I guess it "Could" be. Again I am not a doctor and just don't know.In my own personal opinion , I don't feel as though I have a form of mental illness. But I could be wrong too.I have never met enough mentally ill people to say wether or not I would fit into that type catagory.The people that my friend observed at a Mental Hospital were severly mentally challanged and I guess that is why they are kept in that type of facility (For their own safety)If my 2 conditions are considered mental , then it has to be a mild form Only. Right ? I don't know.But this is NOTHING to Argue over.We're all here for support and need to vent our problems.Thanks for all your thoughtfull replys.


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## Guest (Apr 9, 2009)

Mental Facility - WHAT - do you mean psychiatric unit. Well I've spent 6 weeks in one - and it was horrrendous. You seem to think people who are hospitalised are like that all the time - not so, not in the vast majority of cases. I was extremely unwell - now I'm in remission and operate perfectly fine. Mental illness is a dynamic beast - just because you can be severely unwell for weeks, months - doesn't mean that this will always be the case - though it might be.We have GOT to get people educated about mental illness and what its like living with it. I feel so strongly about this - I'll go on boggin' telly if needs be.Sue


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## Guest (Apr 9, 2009)

Hi Sue , TheWestern State Mental Hospital (As it is called ) is for the Very Metally Challanged and the Criminally Insane here in Washington Sate (USA).I have never gone to this facility to see what takes places there and how the Poeple really are.I only was told by a lady friend that worked there , that this place was Very Bad.That the people on every ward where she worked , everyone of the people were So ill that they would constantly beat their heads on the wall , they would bite themselves bloody raw and other people too. They would Bite , kick , scratch and eventually she saw people that had to be sedated and tied to their beds.What form of mental illness do they have ? I don't know. But my heart goes out to them for sure.I feel very sad for these poor individuals. No one should have to live their life out being so sick.How does one become so sick ? Born this way , or did they just go over The Deep End ?I am just trying to say , if "MY" 2 situations are regarded as a mental illness , then these must only be a Mild form.I surely don't beat my head , or Bite myself bloody , bite , kick or scratch.Sue , I am not trying to pick a fight here. I am just voicing my own opinions only.We all come here for Support.


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

I never, ever said insomnia BY ITSELF is 100% a mental illness. (I don't think anyone else is either), however as part of a cluster of other issues, it is often a symptom of various disorders, some of which every MD on the planet classifies as "mental" even if they haven't done it to your face.Most mental illnesses cause sleep problems, so depression disorders (which can cause more physical symptoms than mood symptoms) are something that might need to be evaluated in people who have sleep problems.The vast majority of people with mental illnesses do not to be locked up to keep from biting themselves, or harming others, really. Most are functioning quite well in their lives, but do have problems that cause untold suffering when not addressed because they don't want to be seen as weak or whatever people make up about people who can't just snap themselves out of it. (I had a friend that nearly died because of her families misguided attitudes about the mentally ill and she never bit herself or even needed hospitalization. That she was mostly OK didn't mean her suffering was not real or doesn't matter, or shouldn't be treated).


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## Guest (Apr 9, 2009)

Yes but don't you see - you are perpetuating the myth that this is what mentally ill people are all like - I know you aren't picking a fight but this gets me SO upset. I have been in a "facility" (god I HATE that word) - and yes there were some very unwell people there with me - but I will not feel less of a person because I have been in an asylum - plenty of folk with mental illnesses get on and lead productive lives.This is veering off topic I know - but its just SO important not to tar all mentally ill people with the same brush. I wouldn't recommend the unit I was in as a top holiday destination - but it saved my life.Actually I'm leaving this thread - I'm getting upset and emotional.Sue


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## Guest (Apr 9, 2009)

I know that Not all mentally challanged people need to be in a facility or Hospital of some type.I am sure they function quite well and are able to do just fine without having to live some where other then home.The Mental Hospital that I am talking about here in Washington State (USA) is strictly for the Very Mentally ill and the Criminally Insane. It is not just a normal hospital that any one can go to if you were sick and needed an operation.This Hospital is one of the most dangerous facilitys around.I have known about this place ever since I was a little Kid.It is always on the evening news because of Rapes , Murders and People killing them selves and other sad events that occure there. This place is always under constant Investigation because of the things that happen there.The people that live there are Sadly Beyond Help in most cases. That is why they have been put there for one reason or another.I have never heard of anyone being released from there because they made a full recovery and are deemed Fit.Sue , I am very sorry to hear that you had to temporairly live away from home for 6 weeks.I am glad to hear that everything worked out good for you and you went into remission and are doing well now. That's Great !I feel like I maintain myself very well. I don't feel mentally challanged in any way. If my 2 health issue's could be considered a mental issue , then it would be a doctor that would be making that diagnosis. Because I myself don't feel that this is the case.But I am No doctor so who am I to say if this is the case or not.I have spoken to my husband about this situation , and I asked him does he feel I have a mental issue going on that is causing this , and he said NO.This has gotten way off topic and all I was trying to do was get a message across that > I Have a problem sleeping at night and does any one else.


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## Thai (Aug 22, 2007)

Glenda,I think that you need to read and I mean really read what is being written here.No one has said that your conditions are caused by mental issues.Read what is being said and might I add, stop being so defensive.You asked for help and that is all anyone here is trying to give you.Sue,Coming from the field that I did, I can appreciate your very emotional attitude.You are so right...........it is a condition that is soooo misunderstood.You are probably best to leave the thread but I hope that you get this before you do.I send you my best wishes and congrats on your accomplishments.Thai


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## Guest (Apr 9, 2009)

Thanks to everyone for all their posts.I am going to let this thread go back to being about Insomnia sleeping issue's only*


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