# IBS or C.diff?



## Floridaboi2000 (Apr 24, 2004)

Hello everyone,I'm sorry if this seems to ramble, but I want people to see my experiences and offer some advice.First off, I have always had a very sensitive stomach... I was diagnosed with a stomach ulcer when I was 18. The ulcer was cured, but I have always had a problem with GERD and whenever I get stressed I have terrible stomach pains for a week or two, but never really a consistent diarrhea problem. Of course, there have been times when going out to dinner, and that would cause me to run to the bathroom very shortly after eating. The latest problem started the beginning of April, when my dentist gave me Clindamycin as an "infection preventative" when I had a tooth removed. At the time I had the tooth removed, I had had two of the most stressful months because of the job I had. Well, the day after starting the Clindamycin, I got diarrhea really bad. We're taking several watery trips to the bathroom per day! After six days of it, I stopped taking the Clindamycin, but the diarrhea didn't stop. After four more days of it, 10 days total, I went to the ER having read about the connection between Clindamycin and C.diff. They gave me an IV with Flagyl, took a stool sample, and the doctor gave me a prescript for seven days of Flagyl. The day after starting the Flagyl the diarrhea stopped! Later in the week I learned that the test for C.diff was negative. On the sixth & seventh day of Flagyl, I started feeling better- I had been feeling so worn out and just flu-like that entire week before. Well, two days after the end of the Flagyl, I started having severe stomach cramps again and noisy stomach. The next morning I had watery diarrhea five times in an hourï¿½but then didn't have diarrhea the rest of the day, just a loose stool once. I went to the ER again that afternoon, because I had convinced myself that I was having a C.diff relapse- as I had been reading all the horror stories about it. I got the same doctor, and he refused to give a second test for C.diff, but I did give another stool sample, what they checked for I don't know. The doctor said that I probably have colitis or IBS. He gave me 14 days of Flagyl for colitis and Bentyl for the cramping, and told me to take fiber supplements. Initially I took the Flagyl for 24 hours, but then I started developing a weird tingling sensation, so I stopped taking it. I bought Metamucil wafers, and have two of those every evening. I have a bowel movement every morning, and it is a mushy consistency and a yellow color. Initially I had a white mucous in the stool, but I have not seen any more mucous the last few days, since starting the fiber therapy. I have also started taking Acidophilus and Culturelle capsules very day as well. The whole time I had diarrhea I didn't lose any weight. This week I have 'felt better' but I still have the cramping/noisy stomach, gas, and some back pain. Normally the pain I feel is in the middle to upper part of the stomach, but occasional pain in the lower region too. I seem to feel better about an hour or so after I eat, so not sure what that means. I know I have been completely stressed out worrying that I had C.diff, having read about all the problems people have getting rid of it. So I know this has not helped my stomach calm down. So I just want to know if anyone else has had similar experiences? If I had C.diff, wouldn't I feel worse than I do? Would I have other symptoms with C.diff vs IBS? Thanks for reading, and I appreciate any comments or advice that you can offer.-Brad


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## kazzy3 (Apr 11, 2003)

Brad, I'm not sure what c.diff is, but I know about the worry of having something serious. Last year I went to the er fearing appendicitis (right side pain). Bowel obstruction (I was c for 2 weeks). After blood tests and an x-ray, they told me my sympoms didn't match the criteria for the above stuff, but they did find a lot of backed up stool and gas. They sent me home with stool softeners, an urged me to drink lots of water and to see my regular doc, but they thought it was ibs. A gastro doc confirmed ibs after a therough exam, and 1000 questions. He suggested fiber supplements and diet diary plus water. My symptoms have fluctuated and I get both c and d but still mostly c. I have improved considerably mostly through diet and water, but still have pain and c and d, but I manage. My advice is see a gastro doc if you haven't already. He/she can make a diagnosis and help with treatment. Take care, and try not to worry.


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## Floridaboi2000 (Apr 24, 2004)

C.diff is Clostridium difficile... and basically is a bad bacteria in your intestines that are normally kept in check by good bacteria. When you take an antibiotic, such as Clindamycin, it wipes out the good bacteria, allowing the C.diff bacteria to overgrow and release toxins into your system. These toxins then cause a lot of problems, and to top it off, they release spores that remain in your system for up to 70 days! It is also pretty contagious, so you have to make sure to wash hands thoroughly after using the bathroom. I also keep a can of Lysol handy! It's pretty nasty stuff that causes symptoms very similar to IBS. However, IBS can also be a result of the aftermath from a C.diff infection.I have read up on a lot on C.diff, IBS, and Colitis, and their symptoms are very similar, which is extremely frustrating. Hopefully someone can post a reply regarding my original post and let me know if they have any idea whether my symptoms are more IBS or C.diff.Thanks.


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## Talissa (Apr 10, 2004)

Hi Brad,I can sure relate, unfortunately. I also have what some call "post infectious IBS". The difference btn this and IC/Colitis is a mystery to me as well. My offender was Giardia, treated by Flagyl, and then my life became a nightmare. 7-14 x's p/day, like a faucet. That was 5 years ago. My guess is whatever you want to call it, the treatment may be similar.Maybe, my story can help you.I got better by taking natural "antibotics"(ParaGone) and taking the probiotic Flora Source, while also learning what not to eat. I quit drinking socially. Over time, I got it down to 3-4 x's per day, mostly loose, unless I ate a big offender. Then I started high dose Metamucil--which helped tremendously in the bandaid sort of way. The bm's are solid, but weird. The fiber really helps, once you've normalized your intestinal bacteria. Soluble fiber helps produce short chain fatty acids, which are imp to digestion. And of course, it bulks up the stool. My way(going it alone becuz the MDs were useless) was a long road. Since Dr. Dahlman is available here, I'd recommend at least reading his free advice & trying it alone or with his help. http://www.drdahlman.com/treatment.htm He can also run a unique lab test to see exactly what bug overpopulation problem you have. Once detected, the folks at the lab test your stool sample with different antibiotics to see what kills it. You coincide probiotic treatment w/ the anti. No guessing. I wish I'd have known abt him 5 yrs ago. He also has specific products to help heal the inflamed intestinal wall.Btw,I just starting taking DA-IBS, & I ate a big salad last night, with cucumber, tomatoes, corn-- my 3 big triggers for the runs, & all's still well. I even had a bit of beer before eating. I think it's making a huge difference. But it wouldn't have, I don't believe, back when my dysbiosis was so bad. ( I'm hoping I'll be able to cut down on the Metamucil & actually get most of my fiber from food!)My post was long also, sorry if this bothered anyone.Best, best wishes to you,Talissa


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## Jeffrey Roberts (Apr 15, 1987)

Brad (Floridaboi2000),I can relate as I've had an overgrowth of C. Diff twice, I've had IBS for over 25 years and I also suffer from Crohn's, which was diagnosed 3 years ago.Unfortunately the stool test for C. Diff isn't 100% accurate, but it is the only way to know for sure that that is what you are dealing with, other than being scoped but even then pockets of C. Diff could be hiding. Your symptoms could be anyone of C. Diff, IBS or IBD and you do need to be properly diagnosed rather than just poking away at your symptoms.C.Diff will not just go away on its own. It can really hang around and produce mild symptoms for a long time. The good thing you mentioned is that you are not losing weight. This would have been a classic symptom of IBD or even C. Diff. Have you ever had you blood checked for high white counts or sed rates? This would also eliminate some things.Could it be that you are just recovering from an overgrowth of C. Diff? This can take sometime and will no doubt produce IBS like symptoms. I believe the course that you have taken, fiber and probiotics is what I would do and just wait and see. It might take several months to be 100% again.So, I would give it some time before you do anything new. If you can't live like this then go back to your doctor and demand a full gut workup.Jeff


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## Floridaboi2000 (Apr 24, 2004)

Update:I wish I knew what was wrong with me. My stomach is still crampy (although I don't have severe pain, just feel crampy and stomach achey). I have had good days and bad days, but yesterday morning I noticed some maroon-colored blood with mucus in my stool. This morning I passed a tiny amount of stool with some maroon blood, but later, all I passed was mucus but with small amounts of red blood... which tells me I have some bleeding from either the lower color or rectum. I can't say it doesn't really surprise me, considering how much gas I've been passing over the last week, along with more frequent bowel movements. However, being not surprised, I am also extremely concerned. I've started taking the Flagyl again (just in case it's a baterial overgrown or C.diff), although, both tests I've had for C.diff have came back negative. I also have never had foul smelling stools or foul smelling gas, nor have I had a fever while I've been sick- like most people who've had C.diff. My symptoms most closely match IBS, but now with the blood, it could be IBD, Pseudomembranous colitis, or ulcerative proctitis. :-( Although, from what I've read, most cases of colitis involve severe abdominal pain... and I just have the annoying cramping/nausea feeling. Since I don't have health insurance, I can't go to a doctor and get scoped, to find out for sure what exactly it is. I guess until I pass high levels of blood, I shouldn't worry so much? Has anyone else passed blood with IBS?Oh, and I also have lost 10 lbs in the last two weeks! <sigh> Although, I haven't been eating much either... a packet of oatmeal for breakfast, a cup of yogurt at lunch, and a ham sandwich for dinner. :-( It's not that I don't always feel like eating, because there are times I definitely crave food. I just don't want to go overboard and risk making things worse.So I would appreciate it if anyone has any words of encouragement or advice.Thanks.


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## Talissa (Apr 10, 2004)

Hi Brad,Hopefully Jeff will respond to this one as well.In the meantime--Man, oh man, I hope you're taking good probiotics(3-4 hours after the Flagyl.) S. Boulaardi is supposed to be great for keeping Flagyl from wrecking your system. I didn't know this when I took it & it started my IBS. Others here on this bb have had similar experiences with this antibacterial, also called metronidazole.Here's more that connects Flagyl w/ IBS for many:"Irritable Bowel SyndromeHunter and his colleagues have studied patients with the irritable bowel syndrome in whom diarrhea, cramps and specific food intol- erances are major symptoms(24). They have found abnormal fecal flora to be a consistent finding, with a decrease in the ratio of anaer- obes to aerobes, apparently due to a deficiency of anaerobic flora (25,26). Previous exposure to antibiotics, metronidazole in particular, was associated with the development of this disorder(27).24. Alun Jones V, Shorthouse M, McLaughlin P, et al. Food intolerance: a major factor in the pathogenesis of irritable bowel syndrome. Lancet 1980 2:1115-1117.25. Bayhss CE, Bradley HK, Alun Jones V, Hunter JO. Some aspects of colonic microblal actlvlty in irritable bowel syndrome associated with food intolerance. Annalidell Istituto Superiore di Sanita 1986, 22:959-964.26. Hunter JO, Alun Jones V. Studies on the pathogenesis of irritable bowel svndrome produced by food intolerance. Read NW, ed, The Irritable Bowel Syndro;ne, New York, Grune and Stratton, 1985; 185-190.27. Alun Jones V, Wilson AJ, Hunter JO, Robinson RE. The aetiological role of antibilotgi8c4pr5o/phYlalxli)ssw2ith hysterectomy in irritable bowel syndrome J Ob and Gyn http://healthy.net/asp/templates/Article.a...=Article&Id=423 ___________________After taking the natural anti's, I've been able to manage my IBS pretty successfully, over time, with probiotics and fiber, like Jeff suggested. My flagyl nightmare was about 5 years ago & for the last two years, I've been high dosing Metamucil(no wafers, no caplets) & with the probiotics, it's amazing how normal you begin to feel.When I was at my worst the year following Flagyl, I lost alot of weight. Alot. The probiotics really helped with that. I no longer reacted to everything I ate, only ctn triggers.Get well,Talissa


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## Floridaboi2000 (Apr 24, 2004)

Now it seems I'm experiencing IBS-C... I haven't been able to produce a normal bowel movement in two days. The little bit I was able to produce today didn't have any blood that I could see.I also posted a message in the C.diff bulletin board, and had someone write back last night and say "you have the same symptoms I do when I had C.diff, and I tested negative too. It wasn't until I was near death that I tested positive". Now why would someone say that? Doesn't really give a person a nice warm feeling about things. I just don't know what I have. The only reason I suspected C.diff was because the diarrhea started about 24 hours after starting on Clindamycin. And Clindamycin is one of the drugs that can cause C.diff related diarrhea and potentially pseudomembranous colitis. Since starting back on Flagyl Sunday morning, I haven't noticed any real change in my symptoms. I still have the gas and cramping, which I would think would go away if it was a bacterial problem. Right? Thanks to everyone for their posts, I appreciate hearing that what I might be experiencing is normal.


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## Talissa (Apr 10, 2004)

Brad--On the C. Difficile board, do they ever talk about Great Smokies Diagnostic Lab as being able to flush out the presence of C. Difficile when the standard lab misses it? Or is the only way to know for sure through a biopsy?They are so very many people who say they repeatedly tested negative for this, & then finally find out it was there all along.You may find this interesting:"Metronidazole and vancomycin do not reliably kill the spore forms of C difficile; in fact, they might encourage the formation of spores. The persistence of both the spores and the antibiotic-induced reduction of the colonic bacterial flora presumably account for the propensity for relapse.There is no specific regimen that has been clearly proved to prevent recurrences. Longer courses of metronidazole or vancomycin therapy have been tried, sometimes with every-other-day administration or gradual tapering. Lactobacillus preparations or yogurt with live cultures are sometimes tried. Two small open trials involving a total of 9 patients have suggested that Lactobacillus casei GG might be effective for the treatment of recurrent C difficile colitis.[7,8]The decision to use yeast to treat C difficile-associated diarrhea in our patient was based on a promising randomized, double-blind, controlled study using live yeast (Saccharomyces boulardii)to treat C difficile-related diarrhea.[3] In that study, the addition of S boulardii to standard antibiotic treatment in 60 patients with recurrent C difficile disease reduced the subsequent relapse rate by about 50% when compared with placebo plus antibiotics. In 64 patients with C difficile disease initially, there was no significant difference in benefit with the addition of S boulardii, although because so few patients with initial disease failed, there was only a 10% power of detecting a significant difference. Patients who were immunocompromised as a result of AIDS or cancer chemotherapy were excluded from the study. The two adverse reactions noted with S boulardii were increased thirst and constipation. Because S boulardii is not readily available in the United States, some physicians have tried S cerevisiae (baker's yeast, found in Fleishmann's Yeast) with anecdotal success.[9] The principal author of the S boulardii study, however, responded to this report with the assertion that S cerevisiae is a completely different species and cited controlled experiments in mice where S boulardii showed a significant protective effect against C difficile whereas S cerevisiae did not.[10]" http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/405773_print ***************I admit I'm extremely biased against Flagyl/Metronidazole(the stuff nearly killed me), but if there's even a 50% chance that taking S. Boulardii in conjuction with it will prevent recurrence, it'd definitely be worth it.I'll shut up now







Oh, except to say I really am curious as to whether gsdl has been able to detect C. Difficile...Thanx!


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## Floridaboi2000 (Apr 24, 2004)

Hey Talissa,The way Flagyl has me feeling now, I don't know if I want to continue it either. I've felt much worse today than I have in weeks- this my third day of Flagyl. I have been dizzy most of the day, and am having lower abdominal pains- that I haven't had before. My body temp is also a bit higher today too.I did have a normal bowel movement later this morning, and there was no blood I could see in it. If I was starting to have pseudomembranous colitis, would 24 hours of Flagyl cause the bleeding to stop? I also never had any pain when I saw the blood either. People on the C.diff board seem convinced that I'm having a C.diff relapse. I'm just not sure what I am having. My sister last night told me that when her IBS is acting up, she sometimes also passes blood with mucus. She seems to have experienced a lot of the same things I am. But I just wonder, why did the stomach problems start after taking the Clindamycin, if it's not C.diff?!? <sigh>


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## Jhouston (Nov 9, 2003)

I need clarification.......Flagyl is not antibiotic for bacteria, Right? It kills "critters" paracitic type bugs? That is why it is used AFTER antibiotic therapy which produces D. When I took Flagyl, my doc had me use vaginal cream, gynelotrimin, anti yeast cream, at the same time. If anyone has ever used metrodiazinole vaginal cream you know why. it causes a raging yeast infection. so what goes on intestinally I can only imagine. Joann


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## Talissa (Apr 10, 2004)

Hi Joann--Flagyl isn't technically an antibiotic, but an antibacterial to kill specific types of, well, bacteria.I think when you get flora imbalance from antibiotics it causes specific bacterial overgrowths that they believe flagyl will destroy. In my case, I was crazy thirsty one day & drank fresh water while on a hike, it was delicious & had the bonus of containing the bacteria Giardia. (sing it w/ me--"if I could turn back time..."







The problem is it doesn't address the gut flora imbalance--it can make it worse, & so you still have a problem. Between all the anti's, you've also killed off the precious few beneficial bacteria. Which leads to even more pathogen overgrowths.I didn't know there was a the topical Flagyl vaginal cream--I also get chronic yeast infections. Hmmm. I'm beginning to think the company that makes Flagyl is feeding the MDs a bunch of Hooey!Brad--I also wish I had the answers for you. It could be that you still have the C. Diffile, or you've moved into what they call "postinfectious IBS", or you may even be courting a very serious but rare form of Colitis from taking the antibiotic Clindamycin. I don't think it's the latter because the watery diarrhea is gone.But you need to know. Hopefully, you'll be able to find a better doctor.In the meantime, while stress didn't cause your problem, it can make it worse. It really can further derail gut flora imbalance. For myself, I try to do at least 20 minutes yoga ev. day, followed by 10-15 minutes in "corpse pose" meditating. I think it helps alot. Calm, steady breathing from the bottom of your lungs is most important when you begin to feel frustrated &/or anxious.Just remember that it'll get better!_________________________Does anybody know if the cdsa from gsdl is good at detecting C. Difficle?Talissa


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## Floridaboi2000 (Apr 24, 2004)

Well, I did more research last night on C.diff related Pseudomembranous colitis and I also read some "case studies" of people on the C.diff bulletin board. Almost everything I read, was exactly what I DON'T have or experience. Most people that have C.diff and PMC, experience severe abdominal pain, fever, frequent blood loss, feeling of urgency to get to the bathroom, waking at night to go to the bathroom and green foul-smelling gas and diarrhea. I have not had any of that. Even when I had diarrhea, I never had to get up in the night and go, it was mostly when I woke up in the morning... and never with a sense of "I have to get to the bathroom now" type of urgency. I also read that antibiotics can kill the flora in your intestines (no duh, I already knew that), but apparently just in doing so, can cause diarrhea and other intestinal woes for days, weeks or months afterward. Diarrhea doesn't necessarily mean C.diff, it can also be caused by your system losing your flora and freaking out. Since I've been taking the Flagyl again, I've noticed my stomach has been feeling worse, the rumblings are worse and the cramping & gas are worse too. So once again my body is being subjected to losing the flora I had been rebuilding, and is freaking out again. Since I take fiber supplements, it hasn't become diarrhea though.Most of the case studies that I read, involved people catching c.diff while they were in the hospital for something unrelated... very few involved someone just taking the antibiotic and getting c.diff. Apparently only 1-3% of people who take antibiotics outside of the hospital, get c.diff infections. I also read that any part of your gastric tract can become irritated, inflammed and bleed occasionally, when under stress or pressure. I have not seen any blood since Monday, and I had a movement this morning and was normal. I can't imagine that I had c.diff because I really didn't have any of the 'normal' symptoms. I think my experience now should prove that, as taking the antibiotics hasn't helped me, but has caused more upset than before. I am still a bit afraid to stop taking them, just because of having seen the blood- but I don't doubt it was probably hemmoroidal related. I have 9 days of Flagyl left- if I stopped now. I just wish I knew exactly what I was dealing with for sure.I'm going to stop tonight and get some Primadophilus Reuteri- which was recommended as a great probiotic. Hopefully between the Culturelle and Reuteri, my system can get back on track.P.S. Talissa, I never was PROVEN to have C.diff- both tests came back negative. So please don't say "you could still have C.diff". <wink> ;-)


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## Talissa (Apr 10, 2004)

Hi Brad,


> quote.S. Talissa, I never was PROVEN to have C.diff- both tests came back negative. So please don't say "you could still have C.diff". <wink> ;-)


I only added that in because you seemed to think it possible, and it actually is _possible_ because the standard test has been known to miss it. Also, Flagyl doesn't kill off CD spores reliably, as they say in the study I posted above.Personally, I think you have what I have--PI IBS. But, I'm not a Dr & can't just say that with certainty.And I'm really glad you're taking the probiotics, which I hadn't picked up on in your previous posts.Sounds like you're getting things under control real well on your own. I did the same, & it's probably the only way to see true improvement, rather than relying on seemingly TOTALLY clueless MDs.







Talissa


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## tilly_canada (May 5, 2004)

Hi everyone. I am a divorced mother of 2 children. and have been recently diagnosed with ibs, I was so scared. I didnt know what was happening to me. I was bent over in two with pain, and couldnt do to many things with my children. Everything has been going so wrong for me in my life and i figured that what the heck. my health is the next thing. so yeah here it is.. but i thought worse. I thought cancer, I want to know what are the symptoms of other peoples. I have severe stomach pain. intestinal gurgling, back pain. bloating, flatulence and belching,diahrea, passing mucus.neasea like you wouldnt believe. I wake up in the morning letting out huge belches, and sometimes throw up.. I thought at first it was just lactose intolerance and changed my diet.. my doctor put me on Dicetel 50mg 3 times a day for a month, then she will see how that goes. and put me on a higher dose..I was looking into taking acidophilis to build up my intestinal tract. I never thought that your gut can cause you so much hardship.. I cant handle the pain anymore. how long is it going to take for the meds to come into effect.I am so tired, of all this pain and discomfort. I want to be normal again. or is that possible.


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## Talissa (Apr 10, 2004)

Hi T Canada,The nausea is the worst, isn't it? Don't wait for the Dr to up the meds & hope for improvement. Look into good probiotics like you said.Some good ones are Jarro-Dophilus, Flora Source & DA-IBS. Also try fiber therapy. When I was at my worst, similar to where you are now, I saw improvement slowly with the probiotics and by severely restricting my diet. No dairy, no wheat, no processed foods of any kind. You sort of have to re-learn how to eat. Homemade chicken soup with rice & over-cooked vegetables(no carrots) was my mainstay for a long time.Read everything here & keep trying new things. And keeping asking Qs here--you'll get some great advice. Just remember IBS is very "individualistic." Once you start feeling better, try an elimination diet to find hidden triggers. It's difficult but worth it in the long run.It'll get better.Talissa


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## Floridaboi2000 (Apr 24, 2004)

Hey Talissa,Well, like I said, I don't think the Flagyl is doing anything for me except making me feel horrible. I still have gas, some gurgling, but mostly still have the cramping stomach. After four days, I would think if it were C.diff that was causing my pains, that it would have subsided by now. I also still have not seen any more blood in my stool since that one day- so I don't know what to say about that.I had also read last night, that Flagyl and Vanco do not kill the spores, and may actually cause c.diff to produce more spores. It said that the antibiotics also can prolong relapse, instead of helping. It continued to say that the only real way to become c.diff free, is to take probiotics and let your body rebuild it's own defenses. I, for one, hope to get off this Flagyl ASAP. I'm a bit concerned to just stop after four days "just in case". But if I have any more bad reactions or don't start feeling better, I might just quit... or slowly taper off for a few days. ;-)


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## Jhouston (Nov 9, 2003)

I didn't know there was a the topical Flagyl vaginal cream--I also get chronic yeast infections. Hmmm. I'm beginning to think the company that makes Flagyl is feeding the MDs a bunch of Hooey! Not sure you understood what I posted. Metrodiazinole (Flagyl) cream is not anti yeast/fungal. it is for vaginal type infections but CAUSE a major yeast infection like never before. My point was that my doc when he prescribed Flagyl (the pill) he also had me use Gynelotrimin/anti yeast/fungal cream at the same time since he knew this side effect. A different time I was prescribed Metro/flagyl cream and then had to use anti yeast cream. Knowing the above one can see a scenario how it could go: have an infection (bacterial) take antibiotics like Keflex or tetracycline or cipro then get Diarhea then take Flagyl then get yeast/fungal infection (women) then use anti yeast/fungal cream. But the gut is still not being addressed. Joann


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## Talissa (Apr 10, 2004)

Joann--Nope, I understood you just fine, just failed to articulate very well. Flagyl cream causes infection requiring anti yeast treatment, you say. Many people with IBS have used Flagyl & now have GI problems. Many women with IBS get chronic yeast infections. I like trails.... Since body systems are intricately intertwined, it's conceivable that the Flagyl also brought on the yeast infections. I have dysbiosis everywhere.(The yeast infections are not so much of a problem now that I use the vinegar/probiotics treatment. It works like a charm.)Talissa


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## Floridaboi2000 (Apr 24, 2004)

Talissa- does Flagyl help IBS problems? Reason I'm asking, is because I woke up this morning and realized that after a couple days on Flagyl, I have noticed that I am not seeing the amount of mucus that I was seeing in my stools before. Monday I passed just mucus and with small amounts of blood. But since then, I haven't really noticed much mucus. I would expect that if I had mucus caused by C.diff, that it would be reduced or eliminated by Flagyl. But I don't know if the same can be said for IBS. This concerns me because if Flagyl doesn't help IBS symptoms, then I must have C.diff- because it has helped. Please advise and thanks. ;-)


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## Talissa (Apr 10, 2004)

Hi Brad,Well, Flagyl could be helping to lower excess mucus along the intestinal wall, which is one of the reasons they use it to treat even the mild form of C. Diff. Colitis. Did you get tested for Colitis?Here's what I think, for what it's worth(highly questionable)--Because of the amount of mucus, you may have had some mild colitis happening(from C Diff or not), and by treating it w/ Flagyl, you're getting "rid" of the colitis but may have postinfectious IBS to deal with after treatment.Although, some people who have very balanced intestinal flora can handle Flagyl & fully recover. (Lucky B*s)But to say that Flagyl helps IBS problems--no, I think Flagyl is one of many possible catalysts for IBS problems. It exascerbates imbalanced gut flora. I have that in a study as well, but don't have time to look for it right now.My 2 cents/could be 1 cent







Have a good one, T-____________________Just remembered which file I put this in--PLEASE READ:"Irritable Bowel SyndromeHunter and his colleagues have studied patients with the irritable bowel syndrome in whom diarrhea, cramps and specific food intol- erances are major symptoms(24). They have found abnormal fecal flora to be a consistent finding, with a decrease in the ratio of anaer- obes to aerobes, apparently due to a deficiency of anaerobic flora (25,26). *Previous exposure to antibiotics, metronidazole in particular, was associated with the development of this disorder(27)* ." http://healthy.net/asp/templates/Article.a...=Article&Id=423 Also want to add that when you finish w/ the flagyl, if the "D" doesn't return, it's possible you don't have IBS. PI IBS patients _most often _ are diarrhea predominant....


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## tilly_canada (May 5, 2004)

Hi Talissa Thanks for the reply, How long have you had ibs? I know with myself I had it for a while. but I just was to scared to go to the doctor , big chicken!!! I am going to check into the probiotics, How long in general would it take to be normal again. I hate being down and out. or am I looking for something that is not going to happen. Would you know a quick list of foods that I should stay away from..I know I eat alot of potatoes they seem to help.. sometimes I see myself just eating a baked potatoe for supper.I am concerned about my weight. I only weight 120lbs, and 1 yr ago i was 170lbs. I am to the point now that I am to slim. and if i get sick my body doesnt have anything to fall back on.if you know what i mean.. Thanks for the help so far.. Tilly;


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## sports mom (May 3, 2004)

Talissa, Maxx and everyonei apologize, please forgive my abruptness. from reading the posts this morning, i am now beginning to understand that IBS is an individual disease and not one remedy will work for everyone. And someone out there said i should read before i post--you are so very right...i am truely sorry for offending and i deserved every bit of critism you dealt out. i am for real, but real stupid...i feel awful now...i'm so sorry...michelle


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## Talissa (Apr 10, 2004)

Hi T Canada,I've was diagnosed with IBS about five years ago, after a fun colonoscopy. I've had chronic "D" for 5 1/2 years, following an infection. Looking back, I think I had IBS prior to the infection though, or at least altered gut flora, because every blue moon I'd have upper ab pains after eating.I digress, potatoes. I don't seem to have a problem with them but others here do. Very imp to remember we're all different.Here are some books that may help:"The New Eating Right for a Bad Gut"( an IBSr came on here recently to say this book, though for IBD, got her back to almost 100% by strictly following the plan.)"Eating for IBS"(didn't help me much, but we're all different, it's helped others)"Self Help Way To Treat Colitis and Other IBS Conditions"(good words on amazon)"Breaking the Vicious Cycle: Intestinal Health Through Diet"(extremely strict diet, but helps many, very very informative on digestion & dysbiosis--worth to buy just for that.)If you're low on time & want quick tips, the author of the 2nd book listed has a great website: ../ Take good care, T-


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## Talissa (Apr 10, 2004)

Brad--Just want to bring up again that the lines btn having mild colitis & IBS are very blurry for me.Maybe Rome III will help with that one!Michelle--You're starting to freak me out. We all live & learn. Don't look back & don't worry so much what others think of you. IF your intentions were pure, you've nothing to worry about.Remember, "Every little thing, is gonna be alright..." Bob Marley


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## sports mom (May 3, 2004)

Talissa,good advice--thanksmichelle


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## norwood (Jan 28, 2004)

WHY would you post this on a thread that I've never even been on before???? If you believe T's advice is so terrific...take it and go away.T...we are rounding the end of this nonsense, I assure you. This is the "matyrdom stage" where they claim to completely understand why we reacted as we did and that they didn't realize how sick we all are that they deserve all the negativity they are recieving. If you go back to my last post to her/him/it you'll note that I specifically requested that she/him/it NOT do this after I explained my condition. It really is so annoying and gets VERY old, but the people on this Board mean way too much to me to allow anyone to take advantage and I will do all that I can to maintain it's integrity and keep people who are insincere and have alterior motives away!PS...T.."every little thing's gonna be all right" *IF* you are a kind, sincere, honest person.


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## Floridaboi2000 (Apr 24, 2004)

Um... ok. Whereever that came from I don't know.Anyway, I am still feeling icky from the Flagyl- just feel wiped out. To think, I still have seven more days left of it! :-( I don't know what you mean by being 'tested' for colitis? I had a battery of tests run at the ER both times I was there, but they claim everything came back normal. I do need to call them back and find out the results of my white blood cell count, because I have been reading that an elevated WBC 10,000+ is an indicator of a C.diff infection. I am taking it day by day, and trying to keep my chin up. It's hard, since I'm also battling depression, and sometimes I think I'll never get better. (I just hate that type of melodramatic thinking) but I can't help it. Anyway, I still have some mucus production going on, even with the Flagyl. I wouldn't be so worried, if I hadn't had those two experiences with finding a small amount of blood in the stool and mucus. My sister thinks that it could be from my intestines and colon being so overly active- along with the fact that I had McDonald's chicken nuggets a couple nights before. I just wish I knew, so then I could relax. The thought of having PMC is scary, and the thought of having C.diff is also just as scary.


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## trac62900 (May 5, 2004)

Oh my gosh that sounds alot like what I am going through. I had tjo quit taking the flagyl it caused me so much pain. I take zoloft for depression and am afraid alot of my tummy troubles are from anxiety. Hang in there and make sure you need that flagyl. Thta is nasty stuff.


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## Floridaboi2000 (Apr 24, 2004)

Last night I woke up after an hour of sleep, with bad stomach pain. I haven't had a bowel movement in a couple of days- normally since I've been eating the fiber wafers- I have a movement every day. So I don't know if I should take some Exlax or what... if being "backed up" is the problem now. <sigh>I just know that since I've gone back on the Flagyl I've felt worse than before. The problem, trac629, is that I don't know if I need the Flagyl or not. That's the whole frustrating point- not knowing for sure what is wrong with me. IBS, UC, Crohns, C.diff, PMC?!?!? I may not even have had c.diff in the first place, it might have just been the clindamycin wiped out the flora in my system causing the diarrhea. I just don't have a clue. And I agree, Flagyl IS nasty stuff!!! But I'm afraid that if I do have colitis or c.diff, going off it now, only six days in, wouldn't be good. So I'm kinda stuck taking it for the full course, and dealing with the after-effects later. :-(


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## norwood (Jan 28, 2004)

Brad....I'm so sorry I didn't explain my last post more thoroughly. It was in response to "sports mom" who several of us have doubts about, but I won't bore you with the details. I then went on to have a conversaion with Talissa. I didn't mean to be so rude and take over your thread. I know you're dealing with plenty of your own issues right now and apologize for adding any negativity to your already full plate.Regarding your using Flagyl and feeling so awful...I had ulcerative colitis for years and right before I had surgery was on both Flagyl and then Cipro. Flagyl did to me what it is doing to you...I just became more sick. Cipro seemed to be "kinder". Because my disease was so advanced when I started using these drugs, neither improved the uc...but, as I said, I wasn't as nauseated or otherwise negatively effected by the Cipro. In fact, now I have a j-pouch and many of my fellow pouchers suffer with pouchitis (inflamation of the pouch) and swear by Cipro. What I've found is that the people who can't handle one, love the other. You may want to run this by your GI. Also, regarding your constipation...my best advice is to drink water...tons of it. If you're going to take a laxative, take a natural one and try to stay away from Exlax and those types. Regulating with diet and hydration works much better (if you can). You say you haven't been diagnosed, have you had any tests (i.e. a colonoscopy)?I am sending wishes for good health your way...please keep us posted.


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## Floridaboi2000 (Apr 24, 2004)

Maxx: I have not had any diagnostic tests done, as since I don't have health insurance, I can't afford to have it done.I think I've figured out why my system is backing up, I had a salad on Monday and Tuesday night, and since then I haven't had a normal bowel movement. Not to be gross, but right now my stool is very clay-like. It's like brown clumpy clay with a mucus coating. Is this something you would see with IBS too?!? I am trying to think positively and hope that once the Flagyl is done, I don't have a relapse. I am currently taking 3 Reuteri and 2 Culturelle probiotics each day, and hoping that they can over-power any bad intestinal flora that may be waiting for the antibiotics to end. I am still dumbfounded about the blood I saw on Sunday, and how I haven't seen any since. Ever since Monday morning when I passed a glob of mucus that had some red blood intermixed... I haven't seen any more. I don't know if Flagyl could work that quick to resolve my problems or if the blood was something less serious. If I hadn't seen the blood, I would be a lot less worried than I am now.


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## norwood (Jan 28, 2004)

Flagyl can also constipate you, give your doctor a call and ask to try a round of Cipro. What do you have to lose? It may work wonders for you.The blood could be from something as minor as an internal hemmie...or if you're pushing to get stool out, you may have burst a small blood vessel. If it was only a one time deal and isn't continuing, don't worry about it. However, if it does...you need to have it checked out. Drink a ton of water...and see about changing your meds.Good luck.


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## Floridaboi2000 (Apr 24, 2004)

I have accepted that I have been dealing with a C.diff infection- which may or may not coincide with IBS. I have also come to believe that that reason God allowed me to become this sick, was to teach me ways of getting better. For the last several years I have battled with chronic fatigue, stomach ailments, depression and major allergy problems. I was on and off antibiotics every other month or so for most of 2001, and some in late 2003; and I think this is why the Clindamycin so quickly was able to finish most of the good bacteria, because I didn't have many in the first place. It was in dealing with and researching C.diff, that I came to realize that having low beneficial bacteria can contribute, if not cause, a majority of the health problems I've been suffering with. So understanding this now, I can prepare myself to battle and overcome my health problems. I still have four more days of Flagyl left... but even so, I am currently taking 3- Primadophilus Reuteri, 2- Culturelle, and today will begin taking Primal Defense. I don't plan to go overboard with the Primal Defense, but I may go up to 4 per day for a month. I think taking PD in normal doseage, along with the other two, will be good enough to keep the C.diff at bay. After a couple months, I will figure out which product(s) I wish to continue with- and at what dosage.I have also started taking 5-HTP to aid with the depression, along with Ester-C, and am walking/running daily to strengthen my body. Sometimes things happen in our lives and we just don't understand why or how it can happen. But I have always believed that all things happen for a reason. Thanks again to everyone, you've been very patient and supportive, and I truly appreciate that.-Bradley


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## trac62900 (May 5, 2004)

I really need help you all. I thought I was getting better but the d has returned and I am scheduled for a colonoscopy on Thursday but I am not sure it is all worth it. I have lost 12 pounds and am really thin now my tongue is all full of bumps and is sore my stomach hurts so bad. i bought some aloe to drink and some flora stuff but I am so scared.Trac


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