# HELP I have C-diff



## painbgone (May 27, 2007)

I was on several antibiotics a few weeks ago, one being Flagyl.After diareah things settled down and the first test was negative. Now I just see some mucus in the stool. I asked to have another test run and this one was positive for C-dif.I'm really scared. I'm not feeling great but no diareah--just some mucus and a few cramps. Have lose some weight. Did have some dizziness, but not sure if this is related to C-dif--could be my positional vertigo.What Now? The doctor that called said "do you have Flagyl?" I said that is what I was taking along with Keflex and Cipro-I thought this would prevent the C-dif" No answer. Said he was faxing the test results to my Gastro.How dangerous is this bacteria? Do people have this in their gut normally?Have to wait to talk to Gastro tomorrow--but won't more antibiotics make things worse? I already have a low immune system.Please post if you have gone through this nightmare. Any natural ways to cure it? How bad was the treatment?Thanks!


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## Jeffrey Roberts (Apr 15, 1987)

C-Diff is found normally in many healthy bowels; however, taking an antibiotic can cause it to flourish and overgrow due to the 'good' bacteria being killed off and no longer keeping the C-Diff in check. C-Diff produces toxins A & B and these are what produce symptoms of diarrhea, perhaps bloody, foul smelling mucous and in some instances pseudomembranous colitis and/or toxic megacolon. Let's not worry about those yet.Since you have had a positive stool culture for C-Diff that at least rules out Antibiotic Associated Diarrhea which can produce very similiar symptoms.The two usual treatments for C-Diff are Flagyl (metronidazole) and Vancomycin, both which are gram positive antibiotics. Typically your doctor will put you on a course of Flagyl for 10-14 days. Afterwhich, C-Diff is usually under control; however, there is about a 20% rate of relapse of C-Diff in which case you may go on another course of Flagyl and see if that brings it under control. Vancomycin is usually reserved as a last ditch drug and is not prescribed initially. The cycle of on and off again Flagyl may continue for some time until C-Diff is under control.There are some additional things you can do while taking the Flagyl. First is to take a probiotic. I recommend VSL#3. Your doctor should know it. The second is to take a probiotic yeast called Saccharomyces Boulardii. The product Florastor contains that yeast. There are some very good studies which show that S. Boulardii binds to the toxins and can reduce or eliminate the symptoms of C-Diff.I have had 2 bouts of C-Diff. My son also had one that relapsed. We both responded eventually with Flagyl and probiotics and I'm sure you will too.Jeff


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## Rowe2 (Sep 26, 2002)

This is the first I've heard of C-Diff. Will you provide some more info to read on it, Jeff? Thanks!


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## Jeffrey Roberts (Apr 15, 1987)

I used to have a website setup specifically for C-Diff, but discontinued it sometime ago. We still have a forum on MediBoard.com that is dedicated to discussing C-Diff and AAD, although there is little activity there.A google search for "Clostridium Difficile" will bring in some good results. C-Diff has been getting a lot of attention lately because it is an epidemic in most hospitals. In some cases the toxin's have morph'ed into an almost untreatable antibiotic resistant form. Note that this resistant form is not widely in the _community_ but rather in hospital settings.Jeff


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## painbgone (May 27, 2007)

What do you all think????My Gastro lectured me about C-diff, alot that Jeff mentioned above. He said that since I don't have a fever or diareah at the moment, to let it go a few more days and see if the probiotics and time will heal the colon. I only have some mucus in my stools and mild cramping which could be from the IBS as well.Since the weekend is coming, he did order me another round of Flagyl (250mg tid) in the event that my symptoms get worse. He said everyone after taking a lot of antibiotics will stool test positive for c-diff because the good bacteria has been killed and only leaves the bad bacteria--which will show up in the stool. Now, he did say that sometimes the c-diff will colonize and the spores will release toxins that may start up the symptoms again. So, he has me covered, but doesn't want to go antibiotic crazy unless necessary.Just curious what you would do--I wanted to go straight to Flagyl--but my husband says to try natural things first. Like oil of oregano and more probiotics.Please post if you have been in this position.Thanks much.


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## painbgone (May 27, 2007)

Hello again,Just got a call from my osteopath (who practices integrative medicine). His remedies for helping the colon get rid of pathogens (c-diff) is to take Mastic Gum (in capsules at a health food store) 500 mg bid with food and of course probiotics. Thought I would pass this along.


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## Jeffrey Roberts (Apr 15, 1987)

Agreed that your IBS is complicating matters. In fact anyone with C-Diff will probably feel like they have IBS.I'm not sure if everyone will test positive for C-Diff following a course of antibiotics since not everyone has C-Diff in their colons. If it were me and I tested positive for C-Diff I would do the course of antibiotics. I wouldn't start fooling around with other remedies like Mastic Gum. There is no clinical evidence supporting that. I would stick with the probiotics, not just yogurt or any brand of probiotic, but something with clinical evidence like VSL#3 or even Align.I wouldn't fool around with C-Diff as it can linger for months or even years. An overgrowth of C-Diff isn't something that is likely to go away with natural remedies.Jeff


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## 14048 (Mar 1, 2007)

Whatever you do, do not fool around with C-diff. What I had was worse, I had MRSA in the colon two years ago. That put me in the hospital and then I had to go on the very expensive, and I do mean expensive, meds to clear it up. When you have serious, non-stop diarrhea, your potassium levels can drop to a dangerous stage and this happened to me while I was in the hospital. Good luck at getting this resolved. I wish you well...GadJett


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## painbgone (May 27, 2007)

Hi all,The doctor called in another round of Flagyl for me as I told him I don't want to wait this out. My D is practically gone, but I still produce mucus and I DID test positive.Will the Flagyl make the bowels better or can it get worse? My big fear is that Flagyl will make the C-diff worse. Is that possible?I have doubled-up the Primadolphilos until I can get a different probiotic. Prima is a refrigerated product with live acidophilus and the rheuti one? sorry can't remember the entire name.How long after the next 10 days of ABX do you get another stool test? I'll probably have to beg again--as the gastro doesn't think I'm that sick. But I do have a suppresed immune system (neutropenia) and I don't want to take chances. I have had the mucus for at least 2 weeks already.Thanks in advance for all your posts and I hope a couple more. I'm really nervous about this whole ordeal.


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## Jeffrey Roberts (Apr 15, 1987)

Unfortunately Flagyl can be very hard on your body. It's a pretty harsh drug. Like any antibiotic, flagyl has the potential of causing an overgrowth of C-Diff, but it really is the right drug to use.I can't stress enough to acquire the probiotics that I mentioned above. I believe you will benefit from the VSL#3 or Align and S. Boulardii as I indicated. Using something else may just be a placebo.I would wait 7 days after your round of flagyl to submit a new stool test. I imagine your doctor is concerned about you and hopes that this 2nd round of flagyl will resolve your C-Diff.Jeff


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## painbgone (May 27, 2007)

Big Question: my stools are forming so I was happy about that. Yet, the mucus that comes out (sorry to be gross) had that very foul smell. Is this smell because of the c-diff. If the smell goes away, does this mean the c-diff is going away?It's hard for me to understand about this mucus as I thought people with IBS have this as well. I never did before, so this was my awakening that something was wrong.I went ahead and ordered the VSL#3--can't wait until it gets here. Does it cause gas or bloating? Do you take the capsules once a day or more?Thanks again!


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## Jeffrey Roberts (Apr 15, 1987)

I don't really know about the mechanism related to the mucous, but I believe the foul smelling indicates something is going on. I presume the toxin causes that in the interaction with your bowel. The only way that I know to confirm C-Diff is under control is at least 2-3 negative stool cultures.I don't recall with VSL#3 whether gas or bloating was present at first. I personally found great relief from VSL#3 in about 3 days of use.Thanks for keeping us informed.Jeff


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## painbgone (May 27, 2007)

Jeff,Gastro just called and is ordering my Vancomycin for 10 days. Says I need to get rid of infection and for some reason I'm having an allergic reaction to the Flagyl--this second time around--itching from head to toe and a glob feeling in throat. Had to take Benadryl.Have you taken it? Some people say it's easier to take than Flagyl.Just wondering--need to break the bank as it's REALLY expensive.


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## Feisty (Aug 14, 2000)

Here is a site you might be interested in for getting some of your questions answered. It is the Clostridium Difficile Foundation site.http://www.cdiffsupport.com/I experienced C. Difficile, after being given Clindimycin for a sinus infection some years ago and became extremely ill before I was finally diagnosed with C. Difficile. By that time, I had to be hospitalized in an isolated room in ICU. I was very toxic and came close to having a perforated colon. I was treated with both Flagyl and Vancomycin thru IV for 3 weeks. After hospital discharge, I had to remain on Flagyl for several more weeks. I had several recurring bouts over the course of the next 3 years, but they cleared up fast once I started the Flagyl again.I remember the smelly mucus. Sometimes, I would get the stomach cramps and the urge to go and all that came out was smelly mucus. Other times, it was uncontrollable diarrhea and mucus combined. Since you have developed a reaction to the Flagyl, then Vancomycin would be the next course of action. And, by all means, keep taking the Probiotics. You need to replenish your colon with "good" bacteria.


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## painbgone (May 27, 2007)

After having an allergic reaction to round 2 of Flagyl, my Gastro has ordered Vancomycin for my c-dif infection.Anyone who has taken this drug--is it hard to take? I've heard it is easier on the stomach than Flagyl.Also, I'm scared of the consequences it may have on my ears--anyone have this problem? I already suffer from positional vertigo at times.Thanks


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## Jeffrey Roberts (Apr 15, 1987)

Allergic, really? Not sure how to be certain about that. Flagyl is such a vile drug on your body who knows what it's capable of doing.I've had to use Vancomycin once before and I also suffer from bouts of BPPV, but didn't seem to have any problems with the Vanco.Hang in there!Jeff


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## 13787 (Aug 25, 2006)

I was on Vanco due to having c-diff in Oct 2005. I remember getting bruised a lot and my white blood cell counts went down. After I got off of it in March 06 all my blood counts were fine and have been since. I really dont know if it had to do with cdiff or vanco, but my gut feeling it was the vanco. I used to get these itchy welts on my skin as well and never had them since I stopped the drug either. Its a very potent antibiotic from what I remember. What I do recommend is to find an infectious disease doc, I went to one at the univ of pittsburgh medical center and he was WONDERFUL. Make sure you go to a teaching hospital and ask for the head or associate head of ID there. The first ID I had was a total idiot and I swear she didnt know what she was doing. I too couldnt tolerate flagyl.. That stuff is HORRIBLE. Headaches, sweats, etc. you name it I got it!! I remember getting dizzy from Flagyl. Vanco is HIGHLY expensive too :/


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## Feisty (Aug 14, 2000)

My son was on IV Vancomycin when his large intestine was destroyed by unknown bacteria. He also has a heart condition and Vanco was used to treat Bacterial Endocarditis. He became allergic to Vanco, but because he HAD to have it, no matter what, he was given doses of Benadryl to counteract the allergic reaction. You may have to resort to using Benadryl if this happens to you. But, of course, report any side effect to your Doc also. As far as the hearing part.......I have a severe hearing loss and it did not affect my hearing at all.


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## painbgone (May 27, 2007)

HI all,Well "allergic" is the word several pharmacists said, however, not sure either. When I started the second round of Flagyl Saturday I was itchy from head to toe and did take Benadryl to counteract this, BUT the pharmacists said I may have an allergic reaction and if I take more of the Flagyl, I may get a bad reaction next. It was the generic form.So now, I'm about to take Vanco on Wednesday (let my body rest a day) and I pray I can take it--I have to! My symptoms are really going away, but I still need to nip the bug--since the stool test was positive.I'll keep you all posted and thanks again for your information.


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## painbgone (May 27, 2007)

This may be a stupid question, but my stools are actually normal now and just about to start the vanco. Is it possible to still have c-diff bacteria in the stool without having diareah?A nurse I know said yes--that is why she wanted me to test my stool again, even though I was feeling better and "bingo" the bacteria was there. BUT, it just doesn't sound like the symptoms that are posted on c-diff sites under symptoms.Just curious if you had an info on this?Thanks!


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## Jeffrey Roberts (Apr 15, 1987)

I don't know the answer to this.The only way to determine if you are C-Diff free is to provide some stool for a culture. It's certainly worth it to get tested before starting the Vanco. I would submit at least 2 separate stool cultures in case the C-Diff is _hiding_. One problem is that if a lab sees a formed stool they may not test it at all because they normally only test a liquid stool. I had this problem once.


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## painbgone (May 27, 2007)

Jeff,I just got a call from my Gastro and talked to another well-known gastro. They both said that (almost) everyone has some c-diff in their colon, it's only when it gets overpopulated that is causes a problem. They both don't rely on stool test because they really don't say how much c-diff is in the stool--it only recognizes yes or no. The last couple of days my stool has been really normal and I don't see mucus like I did last week. Actually my entire round of this saga, has really not been bad diareah, just loose stools. Just not normal for me, who is more so on the constipated side of IBS. I have been pushing probiotics a couple times a day. SO, they want me to hold off on the vanco unless the symptoms come back. Then if symptoms come back--yes, I'm on the roller coaster again with meds.I'm going to call my cousin who is a Gatro in Chicago today and see what he says as well.


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## 13787 (Aug 25, 2006)

From what my ID told me, it is possible to have low level cdiff and test positive, but if you are asymptomatic then it doesnt need to be treated. He told me the guidlines to be treated were 2-3 days of consistent watery explosive diarrea more than 5x a day. If I did not have any of the above then he would refuse testing and treatment.He said that cdiff is in nearly every persons body and is kept in check by the good bacteria in our colons, so if we go on an antibiotic and the antibiotic kills off the good guys and leaves the bad guys to flourish that is how we get cdiff. He also told me that nurses often test positive but do NOT have active cdiff because something along the times that they're carriers of it. Not sure exactly.IMO, and I'm not a doctor, but if I wasnt having the severe runs, feel ill, etc, then I would wait and see. I thought many times since I stopped taking the Vanco that it was coming back but to even out itself with in a day or so. Always ask yer docs opinion because most docs have no idea how to treat this successfully and often times it should be left up to a specialist like an ID if all other means dont work.


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## painbgone (May 27, 2007)

Hello Osaria and all,Your post is exactly what the gastros told me. Actually my ID doctor who treated me for a peri-anal cyst is the one who got me in this mess--the colon/rectal surgeon treated me with Keflex and Flagyl and I was doing just fine--the cyst was not absessed and healing. They of course sent me to ID doctor who automatically wanted to change my meds--he put me on Cipro and wanted me to take Clindamycin with it. I refused the Clind. and went on Cipro. That's when all the D started. Thank goodness I didn't take the Clind. with it. Anyway, in the long run the cyst healed with no surgical intervention and so far my gut is healing (or at least I think--don't want to jinx myself).Been taking 2 primadolphious daily and my order for VSL#3 is on its way. So probiotics will be my daily routine for life. Had an email from a guy who says he takes one Pepto Bismol tablet daily for security--says the bismuth in Pepto helps kill off the nasty critters that stay in our colon. This guy is a DO doctor who practices integrative medicine.I'll keep in touch with this saga--maybe it will help others who get into this situation. If I have learned anything this past month--I WILL NEVER ABUSE ANTIBIOTICS AGAIN. I have taken ABX so many times just because I thought I had a sinus infection, or everytime I went to the dentist. etc.


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## painbgone (May 27, 2007)

Come to think of it--could I have gotten C-diff from possibly unsterile instruments that the colon/rectal surgeon used to inspect my anus? I mean nothing was disposible and metal instruments (anoscope and sigmoid instrument). Sometimes I wonder???????


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## 13787 (Aug 25, 2006)

I feel the same way, it'll be a cold day in hell I take another antibiotic before I go to the dentist or for something stupid. My mom is constantly going on antibiotics for this or that, and I keep telling her to watch it because you never know which one will do you in.. If I had a chest cold and I thought it was bronchitis I'd go to the doc and get an antibiotic. I think what really did me in besides the IV drugs during labor was the Omnicef I took in Oct for bronchitis. I knew something was up a couple days into the pill. I would NEVER take clindamycin.. EVER. I've heard too many horror stories about that one. I went to a dermatologist a few months ago and she wanted to put me on oral antibiotics for acne. I told her NO WAY and she looked at me like I had 5 heads or something. I'm sure if she ever had this bug she wouldnt dish out the antibiotics like candy either.I take reuteri too! I have no problems with this stuff at all. Dont know if its doing anything or not, but I keep on taking it. I took VSL back when I had cdiff and I dont know if it was the meds or the vsl but I had bad gas and D when I was on it. Hopefully you wont get that







I dont think I'll ever stop taking probiotics. I figure it cant hurt!I dont know about taking pepto everyday, I would definatey ask a doc about that one. I only take it if I feel my stomach getting upset.


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## Jeffrey Roberts (Apr 15, 1987)

I agree... I wouldn't use the Vanco if you are not having any symptoms indicative of C-Diff. I think you'll do even better with the VSL#3. I was in exactly your situation last September and stopped the Flagy and Vanco and responded very well to the probiotics. Funny thing, it was my dental surgeon who urged me to take a cocktail of antibiotics that put me into distress last September. I'm also extremely wary of being prescribed antibiotics.I believe pepto or even cholestyramine may work because they absorb (suck up) the toxins and then they are eliminated in your stool. I've seen some limited studies which have tried this with C-Diff.I think you have really managed this quite well. You've taken charge of your own health and sought lots of opinions. Well done!Keep us posted on any changes.Jeff


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## 13787 (Aug 25, 2006)

painbgone said:


> Come to think of it--could I have gotten C-diff from possibly unsterile instruments that the colon/rectal surgeon used to inspect my anus? I mean nothing was disposible and metal instruments (anoscope and sigmoid instrument). Sometimes I wonder???????


Its entirely possible, but I think you'd have to ingest the spores and have something like an antibiotic "activate" the cdiff to multiply. Thats gross tho.. why wouldnt he sterilize them??


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## 13787 (Aug 25, 2006)

The only prob I see with not taking antibiotics is what if we need surgery? Ie. I need to get my gallbladder out but I refuse to because they want to give me IV antibiotics. They wont do the surgery without it. The one jerk surgeon that I consulted with told me he was going to give me clindamycin and there was no alternative. What can we do in this situation?Oh one more thing, another common thing after Cdiff is post infectious IBS (PI-IBS) which can look exactly like cdiff!! I still get it almost a year and a half since being off meds.


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## painbgone (May 27, 2007)

Osaria,Please tell me more about PI-IBS. Never heard about this.This is a problem with ABX needed for surgery. I need to get a colonoscopy because I haven't had my first one (and I'm 55) but I need Amoxicillin because I have MVP with regurge. Obviously my gastro is waiting a little while until I resolve this c-diff problem and I heal inside.And what about dental cleanings--do I not clean my teeth in fear of the 2grams of Amoxil? This is a scary ordeal--we need ABX for some things--how does one handle this for life? I know my gastro says Probiotics for the rest of my life. I think readers (whether they have IBS or not) should be really informed about the dangers of C-diff and other superbugs.You know I was fooled by my pharmacists who said never to take probiotics when I take an antibiotic--boy was he wrong!!!!! The gastro says you can take them with the ABX, just not at the same time.Thanks for keeping this thread going--sure hope others are reading and learning about the problems of ABX.


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## 13787 (Aug 25, 2006)

I really dont know much about it either. If you do a search for it on here youll find some articles. Its like IBS but IMO more aggrivated. I too was thought to have MVP w/ regurg.. Had a 2nd echo and this one didnt show any MVP but I do have very very minimal regurg in my mitral and bicuspid valves. Doc says no antibiotics needed. YAAY! Never had to have cdiff to begin with :/I figured, I got my teeth cleaned, how many surgeries, etc. before they thought I had MVP. I heard its a very minimal risk and even with taking the antibiotics before the procedure DOES NOT ALWAYS prevent endocarditis. I honestly thing if its going to happen, its going to happen regardless. I read a post on here I do believe the other day that they now dont recommend it unless you have valve repair or fake joints. I wonder if they're starting to realize they're causing more problems than helping the situation?I'm 26 and I had it when I was 24







It didnt make anything different, I dont care if you're 2 or 98, its still cdiff and it sucks. No one wants to be trotting to the loo 3000 times a day LOL. I just wish there was more awarness of this bug and other superbugs that are equally as bad. I'm waiting for the candy machines with antibiotics at the doctors office. Put a quarter in and get some Keflex! Put another one in and get some Amoxicillin hehe... Ok my dark sense of humor is coming out, but its the truth. No wonder theres MRSA and things are becoming resistant to the antibiotics, everyone takes it for stupid things that are usually viral.My gastro at the time who knew I had MVP didnt think I needed amox before getting my colonoscopy because of my fear of antibiotics. I'm still here almost 2 years later







You need to get that colonoscopy taken care off, also, it will show if you still have cdiff in there. I still havent been to the dentist in 2 years and frankly, dont really want to go back!!!!My pharmacist TELLS people to get probiotics when they go on antibiotics to prevent this mess from happening. She tells them to take it inbetween doses, so if you take it 2x a day take it at noonish or so. Get SOMETHING in there. When my son was on ampicillin (i think thats the name) after a dog bit him and it became infected, I dumped the powder from the capsule in a lukewarm drink and gave it to him (hes only 6). His doctor basically laughed at that and said they're a waste of money, so if you want to waste your money on those pills that dont do a thing, be my guest. Hang in there you're handling this much better than I did







I thought I was going to die from it.. I even had a will drawn up because of the stores I read.


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## ccheng8346 (Dec 13, 2014)

I was on two antibiotics (Clindamycin and Ceftil). As soon as I finish, I got diarrhea and tested positive for C Diff. I was prescribed with Flagyl for 2 weeks and gets a relapse. took Vanco and after completion I got a relapse. This time I was running a 104 DegF and was confined in the hospital. I was seen by an Infectious Disease (ID) doc and I personally requested a new drug that got approved by the FDA called Dificid (Fidoxomycin). Took it for 10 days with conjunction to a taper treatment of Vanco. She request that I get a colonoscopy and biopsy. All turn out good. It's been two months since I finish my last tablet of Vanco.

By the way, Vanco act as Bacteriostatic which I believe to me does not eradicate the C Diff. I believe Fidoxomycin which is a Bactericidal did the work on C. Diff. I am glad otherwise, the GI told me the last line of defense will be a Fecal Microbiome Transplant. Which I don't feel comfortable with. I am happy and blessed. By the way, I understand one can get tested positive for C Diff within a month as the toxin stays in your gut for a month before it disappear and test for negative indication. So it is useless to test whether you have C Diff within a month of getting cured.


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