# Unrefresing sleep..HELP



## Rowe2 (Sep 26, 2002)

I was diagnosed with FMS two years ago. I have had it longer, I just didn't know what the problem was until I visited a new doctor that was familiar with the condition. His wife has it, therefore he has done extensive research. He also sent me to another doctor for a second opinion, and he also diagnosed me with FMS. I have IBS, which stems from the FMS. My problem is I can't get the stage 4 Delta sleep I need to feel better. He currently has me on Wellbutrin *am dose* and Klonopin at bedtime. I wake up at least four to five times a night. I usually go back to sleep, but I feel so tired the next morning. Does anyone have suggestions for a more refreshing sleep? I have tried all the natural products out there, and nothing works. I don't exercise before bedtime, no caffeine, and I get in bed around the same time everynight. Any advise would be great!


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## Clair (Sep 16, 2000)

awww rowe2  I really feel for you! I also have great difficult getting refreshing sleep, so I know how awful it is.The only things I can suggest are the old ones, of a warm drink before bedtime, try not to read or do anything to excite your brain, play relaxation music, have a warm bath....Also I have heard that there is an antidepressant which is sometimes given to ME and FMS sufferers called amitryptyline - this is usual given at low dose in the evening.I'm sorry I'm probably not being much help, just wanted to reach out and let you know your not alone,Clair


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## kestral (Nov 2, 2002)

Antidepressants (nortriptyline) really helped me in the past, just a small dose.Also benadryl (over the counter) or visteral (RX) are antihistamines that can help induce sleep and are pretty benign. Tend to dry you out tho'hope you find sleep soon


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## Susan Purry (Nov 6, 2001)

I second what the others have said. I find Passiflora quite helpful, but you have probably already tried that. Good luck!


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Meletonin??Have you been checked for a sleep disorder. Do you breath properly when you sleep (overnight stay wired up with an esophageal ballon study??)If you don't breath you miss certain stages of sleep and the can be quite problematic. Been there Done that fell alseep on the T-shirt.A hot bath or shower about an hour before bedtime can help. The normal signal for sleep is a drop in body temp and this kinda forces the issue.K.


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

PS If you don't breath when you sleep anything the least bit sedating can make that worse so many sleep helpers are not good for this.Breathe Right nasal strips can help keep the airway open at night if the nose is the problem. Although most people with even a moderate problem need a nasal CPAPK.


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## M&M (Jan 20, 2002)

Missing the deep stage 4 sleep is what we all miss that makes our sleep "Non-restorative." All the suggestions mentioned are good, including the suggestion to investigate if a disorder such as Sleep Apnea is behind your problem. Best wishes!!


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## squrts (Aug 14, 2000)

i have no trouble getting to sleep,and i sleep alot.the thing is,i do acrobatics in my sleep all night long.at least thats the way it used to be.i`ve found that trazadone stops all that like a dream.of course nothings perfect,i still get a tiny bit active,but the change has been amazing.


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## Rowe2 (Sep 26, 2002)

Squrts, thanks for your advice. I tried the Trazadone once. I took half the dosage the dr. recommended and slept for twenty four hours, then woke up and couldn't get enough to eat! I also had trouble with the acrobatic thing, and the dr. told me I had restless leg snydrome, so he put me on Klonopin to help with that and sleep. I know it keeps me still better, because my husband said he was finally able to get some rest! I just keep waking up at all times in the night. I was up at 3:00 this morning needing a snack.


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## JoJen (Nov 6, 2002)

Mild doses of anti-depressants do promote Stage 4 sleep. There are so many out now. You may have to try several before you find one that works for you. Trazadone worked for me after trying 3 others. I have heard others with excellent results using Elavil (I was bouncing off the walls on that one) and Pamelor. You might want to discuss this further with your doctor. It is so important that you reach Stage 4 so don't ignore what is happening at sleep time.


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## Rowe2 (Sep 26, 2002)

Thanks everyone for your replies. JoJen, I was on Pamelor for four years after life induced major depression in 1996, it worked great,but I gained so much weight. Do you know of a sedating ssri that could be combined with Wellbutrin. I find it an absolute that I stay with the Wellbutrin in am to get through the day at work without dropping face first on my desk! Thanks!


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## Dane3 (Aug 26, 2002)

Iï¿½m sure most of you know this but Fibromyalsia is the inflammation of the connective tissues throughout the body. Itï¿½s brought on as a result of not getting the proper restful sleep your body needs. Even if a person sleeps all night they may not be going into the stage where the body is at complete rest. The very symptoms of Fibromyalsia interferes will the restful sleep you need to recover from the disorder itself, it's a viscous cycle. The symptoms I get when I have Fibromyalsia at its worst are;Never feeling rested after a night's sleep.Fatigue easily. Painful spasms throughout entire body.Sore stiff muscles, which wakes me up at night.I experience muscle twitches anywhere on my body (not painful). These muscle twitches can occur after holding the same position for a marked period of time. Mostly I experience these twitches in my legs while resting.While sleeping, I wake up to find my entire body shivering, but it comes and goes like spasms.I even have itching deep in my muscles throughout my body, which usually drives me crazy.I'm seeing a specialist for my Fibromyalsia who has it himself. I was prescribed Sonata for sleeping, which made a big difference in just the first week. Sonata is a mild sleeping aid. The dose Iï¿½m on (10mg) works for about 4 or 5 hours. I can still wake up in the middle of the night but have no trouble getting back to sleep.


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## AnneMarie (Dec 4, 2000)

I have really good luck with Ambien, but I do NOT take it every night. I don't want to depend upon it too much, but when I feel absolutely tapped out and have those nights where I can't seem to get any restorative sleep, I will take it. I can usually get about 7-8 hours uninterrupted and it doesn't make me feel groggy the next day. In fact, I feel pretty good. You might check with your doc about it.AnneMarie


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2002)

I suspect the sleep thief is Klonopin. All meds in the benzodiazepine class rob us of the kind of deep sleep that we need.A combination of an SSRI along with Trazadone is a better bet.Evie


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## JoJen (Nov 6, 2002)

According to the brochure from the Fibromyalgia Network - Medicines that boost your body's level of serotonin & norepinephrine (the neurotransmitters that modulate sleep, pain, and immune system function) are commonly used. Example drugs used in LOW doses are Elavil, Flexeril, Sinequan, Paxil and Klonopin. Now my doctor doesn't believe in using flexeril for more than l0 days at a time. Elavil not only had me bouncing off the walls but put a lot of fat on me bones. We are all so different and may have to try several before we find one that works best for you. I actually started on the road to functioning when I used Ultram for pain and Trazadone for sleep. Hope this helps!squrts-sounds like you may have Restless Leg Syndrome.Dane-Sonata is not a MILD sleeping aid. It does not help with Stage 4 sleep. It is quick acting and only last about 4 hours. My doc says it is the drug of choice for interns.


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## Guest (Nov 10, 2002)

If I am not mistaken, Flexeril is a muscle relaxant? How would that affect serotonin or norepinephrine brain neurotransmitters?Just for clarification, Klonopin, or any medications in the benzodiazepine classification do NOT assist with much needed deep sleep. Instead they rob us of the kind of deep sleep that we need and that we can get if we can find an antidepressant that DOES favorably affect brain neurotransmitters.Evie


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## Guest (Nov 10, 2002)

Here is an excerpt from an article pertaining to benzodiazepines:"Long-term effectsThe use of benzodiazepines over a long period of time (more than two to three weeks) is not recommended.Benzodiazepines can help to relieve anxiety in the short term. But they do not solve the problem that caused the anxiety in the first place - they treat the symptoms but not the cause.The long-term use of benzodiazepines may cause:drowsinesslack of motivation difficulty thinking clearly memory loss personality change changes in emotional responses anxiety irritability aggression difficulty sleeping disturbing dreams nausea headaches skin rash menstrual problems sexual problems greater appetite weight gain increased risk of accidents increased risk of falling over (older people). Very high doses of benzodiazepines over a long period of time may cause confusion, lack of coordination, depression and slurred speech and may lead to increased aggressiveness.It is ironic that the long-term effects include anxiety and sleeplessness when these are the very problems that benzodiazepines are supposed to relieve."Check it out for yourselves: http://www.adf.org.au/drughit/facts/hdaymi.html Evie


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## JoJen (Nov 6, 2002)

Thanks Evie for the info - just goes to show that you can't always believe what you read. Can't imagine the Fibromyalia Network having that printed in their brochures. If you can't believe them, then who can you believe. I knew that Flexeril is a muscle relaxant and that fact just past over me. Thanks for the clarifications.


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## M&M (Jan 20, 2002)

I've been taking Sonata to help me sleep, and the dreams I get...Woo wee, I should say nightmares. They're awful!!


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## ShellyMcG (Jul 29, 2002)

Dane3You stated----Iï¿½m sure most of you know this but Fibromyalgia is the inflammation of the connective tissues throughout the body.This is what I have found out over the years.Fibromyalgia used to be known as Fibrositis----itis meaning inflammation. It is now known that there is no inflammation--- thus the condition is now known as Fibromyalgia----algia meaning pain.Here is an article from the Fibromyalgia Network.WHAT IS FIBROMYALGIA SYNDROME? FMS (fibromyalgia syndrome) is a widespread musculoskeletal pain and fatigue disorder for which the cause is still unknown. Fibromyalgia means pain in the muscles, ligaments, and tendons--the fibrous tissues in the body. FMS used to be called fibrositis, implying that there was inflammation in the muscles, but research later proved that inflammation did not exist. Most patients with fibromyalgia say that they ache all over. Their muscles may feel like they have been pulled or overworked. Sometimes the muscles twitch and at other times they burn. More women than men are afflicted with fibromyalgia, but it shows up in people of all ages. To help your family and friends relate to your condition, have them think back to the last time they had a bad flu. Every muscle in their body shouted out in pain. In addition, they felt devoid of energy as though someone had unplugged their power supply. While the severity of symptoms fluctuate from person to person, FMS may resemble a post-viral state and this is why several experts in the field of FMS and CFS believe that these two syndromes are one and the same.Hope this helps ;-)Shelly We are all different, unique--but most of all---special. Together with our doctor, we search for the right combination of life styles and meds.I pray that you find something that is comfortable for YOU.


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## Susan Purry (Nov 6, 2001)

Good info Shelly, thanks for reminding us about the inflammation


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## Guest (Nov 14, 2002)

You're welcome, JoJen. I, too, am most surprised that the Fibro Network would tout any of the medications in the benzodiazepine class.They are helpful on a short-term basis, they can even help a super-sensitive person to learn to tolerate antidepressants, but because of their very addictive qualities, they are not usually recommended for long-term use.Most of us with FMS tend to be super-sensitive, do we not?I bounced off the walls with Elavil as well.







When I first began to take an SSRI 12 years ago, I had to use Xanax in order to be able to tolerate the Zoloft. Mostly that was due to my own fear and anxiety. Recently I went back on Celexa after having been off of it for some time, and I had no problem with it because I knew what to expect this time around. Mrs. Mason... interesting how the Sonata affected you. I had thought about trying it, but when I found out that it also does NOT support the deep kind of sleep that those of us with FMS desperately need, I opted to forego it. I take Celexa in the morning and Trazadone at bedtime instead.Rowe, to help you with waking up in the middle of the night..... it could be related to hormones, pain or caffeine and sugar intake. If you eat a snack rich in COMPLEX carbohydrates before you go to bed, it may help. If you do some detective work you may be able to figure out if something you routinely ingest is causing you sleep problems. Of course, if you need an antidepressant to manage your brain neurotransmitters, that could also be a sleep factor.Susan.. what is Passiflora? I've never heard of it?Benadryl actually keeps me awake







Very interesting thread, ThanksEvie


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## M&M (Jan 20, 2002)

More about the Sonata:It may not promote the deep stage 4 sleep, but it has helped me. I am amazed how much a night's sleep can help those muscles to repair themselves. I'm like Susan, I need at least 10 hours of sleep at night to wake up and be of any use to anyone. The Sonata really helps with that. I find for me the melatonin seems to be helping too. Hope everyone can find something that helps them sleep - That is the first thing to work on! And it makes a big difference!







(Not cured, and I still feel like major #### most of the time, but it helps - It also helps me with my attitude. When you're soooooo sleep deprived you have no energy to keep a good attitude.)


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## AliceH (Oct 20, 2002)

For many of us the aches and pains we have can keep us out of restorative sleep. I take the Klonopin because I tense up at night while sleeping. Anything that disturbs sleep like pain, noisy husband, barking dogs, young children needing our attention, etc. Any or all can be a contributing factor. So many things to disturb out sleep







Alice


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## Rowe2 (Sep 26, 2002)

AliceBlueBell...so true about the light sleeping comment. My husband kept his watch on the night stand next to his side of the bed, and when it signaled the hour, I woke up. He kindly removed it from that location and put it in another room. Get this one! He was dreaming the other night, and he was dreaming he was whispering to his son and myself on a hunting trip. He was actually whispering when he woke me up!







I hear everything that makes a sound.


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## Rowe2 (Sep 26, 2002)

AliceBlueBell..I forgot to ask you if you wake up during the night often, and how long you have been taking the Klonopin?


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