# Quality of life significantly increased



## chemist (Mar 16, 2009)

Hello all,Over the past 7 years I have tried to 'fix' my IBS-D with a range of medications and psychotherapies.A while ago I was on this site every day, and thinking about the condition almost non-stop. I felt that my life was over because I couldn't enjoy anything anymore.However, I haven't been back on this site for about 4 months because:1) PRIMARILY - I am taking 100mg of Amitriptyline (TCA) per day 2) For instances where I feel weakened, I have either Imodium or the excellent Lomotil to plug the gap, so to speakI am not cured and probably never will be, but life now is better than it has been for a very long time. And I know this because I've done the following since taking the TCA:- A stag with 20 guys in Germany- A week long holiday in France with 15 of my g'friend's relatives- A camping trip- A ridiculously long party in a remote house in NorwayAlll without without major incident. That simply would not have been possible before, and I'm sure would scare the ###### (literally) of many people here (and certainly would have for me).I've not felt compelled to read any of the posts here because I don't think I need to anymore. That's brilliant. But I'd be more than happy to go into more detail if it would help anyone else.Again, I'm not cured, but I feel much, much better.Thanks


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## overitnow (Nov 25, 2001)

Glad to hear you have found a combination that works for you and that you are taking advantage of it. 20 guys in Germany would imply an awful lot of beer and I think your ability to spend a week with the relatives of 15 of your girlfriends anywhere says a lot.







Here's to a continued wonderful life.Mark


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## crstar (Jun 29, 2009)

it's nice that u have found some chemicals to help, but have u researched the un-natural things u r putting in ur body on a regular basis??...........i have taken everything u mentioned..........they all cause problems & do not cure anything...........the problem with these type of drugs, is they may work for a while, even months or yrs.........but there will come a time where u start having problems that may seem completely unrelated to ibs..........everything is connected in the human body........many yrs ago, i use to work out every morning & there was this news cast about taking this certain drug or something that would help u avoid getting a hang-over from a hard nite of drinking........i had a friend, who i knew partied alot & i mentioned it to her.......she said, no thanks, i want to pay for my sins now, not store them up & maybe have something much more hard or damaging to deal with...........she was wise........just to mention the amatriptyline (my gawd, 100mg a day)........it slows down the heart & messes with the very cholesterol that ur body uses to make every single hormone in ur body..........the fact that it slows down ur intestines should tell u something............those very contractions u r slowing down, r what enable u to absorb the vital nutrients from ur food.........it can cause deficiency diseases, which r very sneaky & often the thought doesn't even surface, that maybe even tho u eat a balanced diet, u still might b in need of alot of those nutrients u r stopping from getting into ur system & flushing down the toilet.........then the only way to really get them in ur system, is intravenously or sub-cu, ur intestines can lose some or all of it's ability to absorb nutrients........it can become scared & cause all kinds of problems..........as i said, i use to take all of those regularly, i made sure i had a good supply in the house at all times........they were short lived at best.........after yrs of use, i only ended up with a much worse case of it, along with malnutrition..........& it became harder to get a handle on the issues at hand.........when i finally researched these very drugs & found out exactly how they did what they do & the repercussions, i haven't taken them since...........it took time just to heal from the use of those nasty drugs........they r alot like nasal spray.......for anyone who has allergies, they know about nasal spray.........well, after using this stuff for awhile, it boomerangs back on u & actually causes the very thing u r using it for.........depending on how long someone has used it, it can take weeks to get past the hell to get off of it.........alot like cocaine or any other addictive substance..........these r the things pharmaceutical drug companies count on..........reminds me of a drug pusher, only legal, they make sure of that........there r many natural ways of dealing with this really horrible disease.........the problem is we all want a quick cure.........there is no such thing...........quick cures don't require any work, & figuring out this thing is a lot of work, time & experimentation............i went thru over 6-1/2yrs of hell & many preceding those yrs leading up to the final hell..........for me, i had to adress my adrenal fatigue & thyroid issues, first........the turning point was the book & website: FIBER MENACE..........he made alot of sense........i'm not saying u should just suffer, but there is no easy way & popping drugs is taking the easy way out........i know how awful this this is & no one should have to go thru it...........but this is not just something that pops up, there r always preceding things, maybe even in childhood..........if we listen, our bodies will tell us when things rn't right..........


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

> popping drugs is taking the easy way out


NO it isn't.I find it quite appalling that you would say such a thing. ALL drugs are not BAD. Some are very helpful. Chemist here has found somethings to manage their IBS. And Chris....Just because Chemist (or ANYone else) has not used the very SAME type of things YOU use to manage _your_ symptoms.... doesn't mean what they are using to manage their symptoms is wrong or unhealthy. And I think it is very inappropriate for you to infer otherwise.BQ


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## chemist (Mar 16, 2009)

CRSTAR,Glad you posted, gives me a chance to highlight your ignorance and help those who are looking for facts rather than an ill-educated rant.


> "Have u researched the un-natural things u r putting in ur body on a regular basis??"


Yes, thanks for asking, I have read many scientific journals, including but not limited to the following:http://www.wjgnet.com/1007-9327/15/1548.pdf http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlere...i?artid=1773590http://www.cks.library.nhs.uk/irritable_bo...take_inhibitorshttp://www.med.unc.edu/medicine/fgidc/antidepressants.pdfAnd since I have a degree in Chemistry (hence the pseudonym), I'm in the lucky position of understanding the more complex parts of the studies, including potential side effects.These "unnatural" meds are also recommended for the treatment of IBS by NICE, the official governing body of the UK's National Health Service, and prescribed to me by two different qualified GP's.


> "just to mention the amatriptyline (my gawd, 100mg a day)........"


My gawd? Is that too much? No, it is not. As clearly stated by http://www.inhousepharmacy.co.uk/anti-depr...triptyline.html, amongst many others; "Recommended dosage / ADULTS / The usual starting dosage is 75 milligrams per day divided into 2 or more smaller doses. Your doctor may gradually increase this dose to 150 milligrams per day. The total daily dose is generally never higher than 200 milligrams."


> "there r many natural ways of dealing with this really horrible disease.........the problem is we all want a quick cure." "Quick cures don't require any work, & figuring out this thing is a lot of work, time & experimentation............"


Again, read the original post. I state that "Over the past 7 years I have tried to 'fix' my IBS-D with a range of medications and psychotherapies."Does 7 years seem quick to you CRSTAR? Does a years worth of (paid) CBT sound lazy? Or two different hypnotherapy courses? Or countless hours spent researching the hundreds of different natural / "unnatural" medications? And trying each one in turn, noting all results down in my own diary?


> They "do not cure anything"


Please go back to the original post and get your facts straight. I said "I am not cured and probably never will be", and "Again, I'm not cured, but I feel much, much better."*CRSTAR READ THIS BIT CAREFULLY:*Next time you feel the need to wade into a post about "unnatural things", ask yourself this. Would the world be a better place without anti-AIDS drugs, antibiotics, aspirin, penicillin, paracetamol, flu-vaccines, anti-cancer agents or anaesthetics? Or, to put it into context, would you prefer me to stay in today, locked in the bathroom instead of going on a two hour walk with friends?


> "if we listen, our bodies will tell us when things rn't right.........."


Well my body's telling me things are pretty damn good right now. And since I'll _never _have this day again, I might as well make the most of it.


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## Thai (Aug 22, 2007)

Well said chemist!!!


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## Friday (Dec 9, 2008)

Brilliant news! I'm rather similar to you, I take imipramine, another TCA, which has really helped but certainly not cured IBS-D. It means I can now go out without worrying as much as I did and get that confidence to go on long walks again etc. As you say, rather that than not take any medicines and remain locked in the bathroom all day. I listen to my body and it tells me that I feel ill so I would rather take medicines that mean I can get some kind of a life back!TCAs do seem to slow down the gut which is brilliant. I wish people would try them for IBS-D and improve their lives rather than decide it's 'unhealthy' or 'bad' to take TCAs. and have a life of IBS misery! I say this because I was like this for years and feel I have missed years of social events as I wouldn't take the medicine recommended.We could do with more positive comments on this Forum just like yours, it gives us all a lift and hope!


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## soulsearch (Jun 20, 2007)

Hello Chemist,I know what you mean.When i started ami + immodium+probiotics,it was the first time something really worked after many years.I had three good years with them,but then other issues started surfacing.I am off them now,and able to manage with out them.I won't advise against it.Probably best to start looking for alternatives, in case you had to get off them some day.Good luck !! Cheers


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## IBSD88 (Mar 23, 2009)

I am on amitryptyline too, I never read the side effects when i was precribed them (as you always have "side effects" when you read them, its all in the head really) but i did about 6 weeks later and looking back there have been a good few side effects,read quite alot about them recently through pure coincidence and they get used widely for pain and problems like IBS where its thought your brain is causing it.I HAD noticed a slight improvement after the first 3 weeks of hell, that lasted for a nice little while. but over last 3 weeks I have been as bad as ever. debated increasing the amitriptyline but for increased chances of other side effects doc said not worth risk and so im back onto mebeverline as well as amytriptyline. and of course add on top of that my Ibsacol and then the loprimide when I have a problem but I'm still not at a point I could do all you have done. Well done on finding something that has worked for you, I hope it continues and with any luck gets even better.


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## chemist (Mar 16, 2009)

Thanks for your supportive comments. As mentioned, certainly not a cure. The main side effect for me is a dry mouth in the morning. As far as I can tell, the anticholinergic nature of the med is what's working. Apparently, "The majority of anticholinergic drugs are antimuscarinics." meaning that they dry up excess fluids - which, in the case of the gut, seems to be important...


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## Borrellifan (May 5, 2009)

Glad to hear you've found something that works for you. I'm pretty much in the same boat, having tried every natural remedy possible. I even tried Lotronex which didn't provide much relief. The only thing I haven't tried is Amitryptiline. I have a prescription for 50mgs that i filled but decided not to take, now that i have read your post i may reconsider. I personally don't believe in having to take serious drugs and I know alot of people on these forums don't but when your faced with little to no other options you have to do whats necessary to live somewhat normally and enjoy life. Im glad things are working for you and i will report back on how the Amitryptiline works for me. I too have little other options.


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## petra (Feb 2, 2009)

Hi Chemist-I think it is fantastic that you are in a better place after your years of misery. Maybe, as a chemist, I can pick your brains. I am desperate to get my anxiety under better control as it makes my IBS-d 10x worse. Without the anxiety I would be managing pretty well. I initially tried seroxat at a very low dose-10mg--I was fine for about 1yr until I increased it to 20mg as I wanted more of an anti-anxiety effect-I experienced extreme anxiety and restlessness. I had to resort to running up and down the stairs to try and burn it out of my system. My GP then tried amitryptyline-again started low but very soon the same thing happened and as I was on holiday I stopped it. Think I managed about 3-4 weeks on it. I decided I would have one more try and my GP gave me sertraline on Friday. I've binned them today on day 4 cos the same thing is happening. I can't manage to work with shaking hands and being all jittery. I work with patients so it's not good! Am I just a hopeless case? I still have a couple of bottles of seroxat and amitrypt so could give it another go but which one to try. How long should I put up with the side effects-I really, really want to get myself sorted but struggling so much with the awful side effects and this sends me into a complete panic which goes on and on for hours. Any advice from anyone would be really welcome. Maybe I need to quit my job and just stick it out but that is my last resort as my part-time afternoon job is the only thing that gives me some structure in my life-socialising is out!


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## Borrellifan (May 5, 2009)

petra said:


> Hi Chemist-I think it is fantastic that you are in a better place after your years of misery. Maybe, as a chemist, I can pick your brains. I am desperate to get my anxiety under better control as it makes my IBS-d 10x worse. Without the anxiety I would be managing pretty well. I initially tried seroxat at a very low dose-10mg--I was fine for about 1yr until I increased it to 20mg as I wanted more of an anti-anxiety effect-I experienced extreme anxiety and restlessness. I had to resort to running up and down the stairs to try and burn it out of my system. My GP then tried amitryptyline-again started low but very soon the same thing happened and as I was on holiday I stopped it. Think I managed about 3-4 weeks on it. I decided I would have one more try and my GP gave me sertraline on Friday. I've binned them today on day 4 cos the same thing is happening. I can't manage to work with shaking hands and being all jittery. I work with patients so it's not good! Am I just a hopeless case? I still have a couple of bottles of seroxat and amitrypt so could give it another go but which one to try. How long should I put up with the side effects-I really, really want to get myself sorted but struggling so much with the awful side effects and this sends me into a complete panic which goes on and on for hours. Any advice from anyone would be really welcome. Maybe I need to quit my job and just stick it out but that is my last resort as my part-time afternoon job is the only thing that gives me some structure in my life-socialising is out!


This is exactly what worries me about taking the Amitryptiline and why i filled the prescription but never took it. I had very little worries taking the Lotronex because i knew if i felt any pain i would just stop taking it and since it was designed for IBS but with this stuff it seems like it may just create more problems then it fixes? I definitely won't be able to put up with 3-4 weeks of bad side effects before the stuff starts to work or the side effects ease up. Chemist, can you give me any advice on this aspect? Thanks.


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## chemist (Mar 16, 2009)

Hi - I should be clear that I'm certainly not a trained pharmacist. But I have self-experimented with a range of meds. In the case of Amitriptyline, here's what happened:- Started on 10mg / day, taken before bed. This is the recommended amount for IBS according to NICE (see above). But that's subjective, as proven by&#8230;well, me-	No noticeable effects at all-	After 4 weeks, upped the dose to 50mg / day (big jump)-	Noticed heart beating slightly faster at night-	Mild feelings of euphoria during the day (I also experienced this with SSRI meds)-	Feeling quite odd for about 2 days (ie not entirely lucid / sharp) -	Slight dry mouth-	Slight improvement in frequency & consistency of bowel movements (BM)-	After about another 4 weeks, decided one night to double my dose to 100mg / day without consulting doctor-	That was not a sensible decision, but I was pretty determined to see what would happen-	Something did happen - I experienced what's called "Action Myoclonus" (http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/myoclonus/detail_myoclonus.htm#139863160) which meant that - as I was about to drift off to sleep - I jolted awake. I'm sure we've all experienced that. Unpleasant but I felt at least something was happening-	This lasted about 4 days. Of course, one is meant to graduate up over time-	That was about 2/3 months ago. Since then the only remaining side effect is a dry mouth (really, really not a big deal)-	In that time, I haven't experienced acute diarrhoea, although there have been about 3 episodes where I've had to take Imodium or Lomotil (as mentioned above, having 2 different anti-d meds instead of 1 makes a huge difference). Now, I'll have 1 BM per day or 1 every other day, in 'normal' life. If I'm in an uncomfortable situation, this will change, but even when I do go the BMs seem to be well formed if you know what I meanMy advice is to try it, but graduate up to a dose that works for you over a sensible time period. Relax about the side effects as they are often temporary. If they persist after two weeks then maybe reconsider. Also, I cannot stress how important it is to find a good doctor. I went to three before I met one who was sympathetic. I told her straight off that I was essentially looking for a "partner" who would work with me to help solve / manage my problem. She had never heard of Amitriptyline or Lomotil. You have to do the work, print it out (see links above, especially the first one) and demonstrate that you are trustworthy and serious about improving your quality of life. If you're having doubts or issues then PM me or leave a message here and I'll try to help. Again, I'm not a doctor or a pharmacist but I have put in the hours so can at least speak from experience&#8230;


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## petra (Feb 2, 2009)

thanks, chemist, for taking time out to reply in such depth. I think I might give it another go. I did the jump from 10mg to 25mg after about 3-4 weeks but I'm only 7.5 stones so maybe that is just a bit too much for me. Maybe I'll titrate a bit more slowly and see if I can ride it out. Thanks again and may you continue to have fun!


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## Borrellifan (May 5, 2009)

Ah, thanks for the thorough explanation chemist. Hell, since i've tried everything else im just going to take the plunge and start with half of the 50mgs (25mgs) per night and see what happens. I just hate not being in control and feeling out of it, i'd almost rather be sick everyday as bad as that sounds then to be all looped up. Oh well, wish me luck.


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## chemist (Mar 16, 2009)

Good luck, let me know how you get on...


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## IBSD88 (Mar 23, 2009)

Petra I am 8 stone so i knowsome meds docs dont like giving to us in higher doses but I dont know how much amytriptyline is one, I know side effect wise the only increase as amount increases so far is i get sometimes uncontrolably tired unless I have lots of food but a good bottle of irn bru can counter that







(though the fizz kills me afterwards so i do try to flatten it as much as poss lol), other than that I havent noticed any real increase in the other side effects going up the stages, my doc gets me to go up by 10mg each week until we get to whatever level we are stopping at, I am only on 40mg but doc doesnt suggest increasing that amount until we have tried multiple meds to try and cut down.


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## Borrellifan (May 5, 2009)

chemist said:


> Good luck, let me know how you get on...


Unfortunately it didn't go well. As i had stated my GI had prescribed me 50mgs so i figured that would be way too much so on the first night i cut one of them in half (25mgs), I could start to feel a bit dizzy but then dozed off to sleep. When i woke up (much later then usual) i was quite tired and still a bit dizzy, this lasted throughout the day. My stomach did feel much better as far as cramping and gas and spasms go but my bowel movements were still the same. I followed the next day with the same dosage and the same results. Although my stomach did feel much better on the Amitryptiline my bowel movements remaned the same and i just can't live with the dizzy, "out of it" side effects that they caused. Well, atleast i gave it a shot. If the side effects weren't so bad i would say this had the best improvement of symptoms in such a short period of time then most other products i have tried.Thanks again chemist for sharing with us your experiences.


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## chemist (Mar 16, 2009)

Hi BorrellifanYou say:


> I could start to feel a bit dizzy but then dozed off to sleep. When i woke up (much later then usual) i was quite tired and still a bit dizzy


And:


> i just can't live with the dizzy, "out of it" side effects


 But if you look back at the post I wrote about the meds, it states that I was:


> Feeling quite odd for about 2 days (ie not entirely lucid / sharp)


I know it can be unpleasant but don't give up yet - it should pass. And as far as the BMs go - it definitely took longer than a couple of days to work. Some people find that nothing happens for three weeks. They are _not _ a quick fix. Again, I'm not a doc so it's completely, 100% your choice...


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## petra (Feb 2, 2009)

Borrellifan-I would tend to agree with chemist esp if the drug had a good effect gut wise. You took 5x my initial dose so I'm not surprised you got the tired dizzy effect. I did find that those effects improved over time (fairly quickly) but then I developed anxiety/jittery effects when I increased to 25mg so that was maybe too much for me or too rapid titration and it meant I couldn't function at a time when I needed to be at my best. Good luck with whatever you decide to do though.


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## Thai (Aug 22, 2007)

And you can also try to take it earlier in the evening to avoid the hangover effect in the AM.IMO, 2 days is way too soon to give up on anything.


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