# Tricyclic antidepressants for IBS-D



## Friday (Dec 9, 2008)

I've tried Amitryptaline and it didn't work for the diarrhoea, perhaps a bit for the pain but no enough for me to plod on withe all the side effects - such as not being able to drive in the mornings to work because I was too exhausted and worried I might crash!So, doctor has suggested trying another tricyclic antidepressant - I wondered if anyone else has tried this and had any success?


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## Guest (Jun 2, 2009)

Hi Friday , I know many doctor's put people on Anti-depressants for their Diarrhea issue's , but I cannot understand why someone would want to take this type medication if There is No problems with Depression or Anxiety as a starting cause.Is this the right thing to be putting someone on ? These type drugs can really mess with you head pretty badly.I took one 25 mg. Amitryptaline tablet in 1983 when I lost my sister , and for one week I didn't know my name , my husband or son , or where I was even at.Clearly the wrong drug to put me on.Do you have depression or anxiety ? If so , I can see a doctor putting you on this.But , if it is just diarrhea that you are trying to eliminate , then wouldn't something like Imodium be just as effective , or the Rx. Lotomil ?I strictly use Imodium for my "D".That keeps it under pretty good controll most of the time.


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## Friday (Dec 9, 2008)

When I saw the specialist he said Amitrypt. would work to slow down my gut and thus help to stop the D. This is a side effect of the tricyclics I was told. But it didn't seem to work for me (though if you talk to friends who have had Amitryp for depression they say the constipation kicks in from day 3 or so!). I don't have any depression issues (luckily) and was told that this small amount (20mg) shouldn't affect the mind...sounds like it did for you though so that's not good..I take imodium but it doesn't work reliably. I thought Lomotil was meant to be addictive so have avoided it (doc has never recommended it anyway, strangely).


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

The idea that the only thing serotonin plays a role in is mood so the one and only thing an antidepressant does is effect mood is very wrong.95% of the serotonin in the body is used by the nerves in the gut for sensing and telling the gut what to do.Tricyclics generally work at doses too low to even effect mood when being used for body things like IBS or other chronic pain illnesses as they also effect non abdominal pain nerves and block inappropriate signals. It still hurts if you break a leg, but the inappropriate chatter is tuned down. Basically effects the signal to noise ratio so you only hear the radio station you want instead of the static being so loud you can't hear anything.If I refuse to take every thing that ever caused a bad reaction in anyone that means no one should ever take any medication of any kind for any illness at any time. Nor should anyone ever take any herb, vitamin, mineral or even eat food or drink water. Yes, a few people have a big reaction to a small dose of medication (and some people get very looped out by Lomotil and a lot of people find Imodium does nothing for them at all) that is unusual but that doesn't mean it is going to cause serious problems for every person. Antidepressants often address the inappropriate pain that people with IBS can get that can be much more disruptive than the diarrhea. I didn't mind going an extra time or two a day, but the literally doubling over in pain after 5 steps or so really started to cause me problems in getting through my every day life.


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## Guest (Jun 2, 2009)

My doctor gave me a prescription for BENTYL for the severe abdominal gut pains that people can get.Never once did they ever suggest going on an anti depressant for stomach discomfort.I would take Bentyl over those any day.Thankfully I get no side effects from it.I don't have to use it very often , but atleast I know it's there if I need it.


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

As I said but you won't believe me there is clincial evidence and biological reasons why for some people antidepressants are a good choice.I am so glad bentyl and Imodium work for you. They are not the perfect drugs for other people. I got really serious hives when I was given bentyl and it did zero for the pain.Levsin (a similar drug) works a little bit (and I don't get hive), but when my pain is so severe I can't uncurl from the fetal position to crawl to the bathroom without wishing for death it by itself is not enough. With it and a drug related to antidepressants, but not technically an antidepressant I could at least walk to the mail box and go to work.I'm sorry it is not acceptable to you that I had to use a type medication that you can't take.Every single drug, even the ones you use, cause serious side effect for someone. If I said no one should ever take Bentyl because I happen to be allergic to it that wouldn't be fair to all the people that it works for.I have no problems with people saying drugs have side effects but to say any drug is too dangerous for anyone to take because I happen to react badly to it isn't fair to all those it happens to be the right drug to take.I'm glad when BENTYL works for some people, but I can't take it. As I said every drug has severe side effects for someone, but that doesn't mean everyone should avoid all medications that might work because of a rare reaction that may never happen to them.


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## Guest (Jun 2, 2009)

Thankyou for the reply Kathleen ,I am glad anti depressant med helps you. And it is nice to know that it is helpfull for other people too.And if new studys show it is helpfull for other conditions besides Depression , then I see No reason for folks to avoid it.I am just speaking from my own beliefs . This is just not something that I want to do.


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## petra (Feb 2, 2009)

Like you, Friday, I couldn't take TCAs-I tried for about a month and did actually crash the car 3x. Fortunately, none of them serious so I took myself off them. Never crashed the car before or since-touch wood. Anyway, am now taking seroxat-2nd line for IBS in the UK. Doing well at the moment but hopefully won't have to stay on it long term and will wean myself off it very slowly.


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## cherrypie09 (Jan 20, 2009)

Ive tried amitriptyline, was on it for 2 years at 10mg at night, ive IBS-D it did nothing for me at all for the IBS-D


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## Friday (Dec 9, 2008)

Well folks, back to my original question, has anyone tried amitriptaline and found it didn't work for the diarrhoea side of things and then had the Dr suggest they try a similar but different tricyclic??I am willing to try anything so I can get out of the house and have my social life back again. I just wondered if any of the other tricyclics do actually work to slow down the gut and stop the diarrhoea, well, lessen it anyway?


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

All of the tricyclics have a tendency to be constipating.Sometimes one will work better than another even in the same drug class so it often makes some sense to try another one.A lot of the clinical trials with tricyclics are with desipramine rather than Amitryptaline.If all you need is diarrhea control and don't need any pain relief you might want to try Imodium or Calcium.For some people it will reduce diarrhea, but they generally act predominately on the pain and discomforts of IBS.Switching to SSRI's doesn't make much sense if you don't get any diarrhea control at all with tricyclics as they tend to loosen things up and increase diarrhea.You might ask about Remeron if they want to stay with the antidepressants and won't go on to Lotronex as it actually is chemically related to Lotronex and some people find it works.


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## petra (Feb 2, 2009)

Kathleen, side effects of seroxat can be disturbance of the gut -that is diarrhoea or constipation. I agree it is probably more likely to be diarrhoea but not always and if affected by anxiety causing additional diarrhoea then it might still be worth a try.


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Any antidepressant can cause diarrhea or constipation.You almost always find both listed in the side effects because there is always at least a couple of people more in the trial that had those side effects than you saw in the placebo group.Usually when I've looked into the actual numbers you find that generally with Tricyclics if you compare the number of people reporting constipation and reporting diarrhea more report constipation. With SSRI's usually more people report diarrhea.There are always people who react in the minority direction, so you never know until you try, but usually for diarrhea they will run through the tricyclics before moving on to the SSRI's. I never intended to imply that they should never try them.


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## Friday (Dec 9, 2008)

Has anyone tried desipramine to help with IBS-D? (is desipramine something we have in the UK, Kathleen? I can't find out much about it here)


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

One of the doctors around here uses it a lot and when I did a test panel thing for Glaxo before they released Lotronex (things like is this a better way to present the info or that a better way) most of the people in my panel were on it and most were doing pretty well.http://www.nwmhp.nhs.uk/pharmacy/tricyclics.htm has is listed as discontinued?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tricyclic_antidepressants lists which are tertiary and which are secondary. desipramine is a secondary amine tricyclic.Nortriptyline and Protriptyline are listed and the doctor that I know that uses them a lot tends to prefere the secondary ones over the tertiary ones like Amitriptyline


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## twixcookie (Jun 8, 2009)

I tried several SSRIs years ago for anxiety, and they made me nervous, made my hands shake, my teeth chatter in my head. My doctor said they can make you feel very nervous. I wondered why he would prescribe something that would make me agitated, when I already had anxiety? I had the same problem with all of them. I also have read they cause sexual problems for people, and this is a major concern. It is well documented and not their imagination. I can't imagine having problems "down there" being created by a drug. I want less problems, not more.Long ago, doctors thought ulcers were brought on by tension and stress. People were urged to calm down, take it easy, for ulcers. Well, now we know ulcers are not caused by stress; they are caused by bacteria.So being told you are under stress isn't going to make this better. We can't all quit our jobs and go work in a bakery and get by. It is the world we live in. In my life, I have had several women, who do not work, and have husbands who make big money, tell me I should quit my job. I was floored. If I quit my job, I would be on the street.


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## twixcookie (Jun 8, 2009)

The tricyclics will make you feel very dopey and drugged up. Even a small dose can leave people feeling hung over in the morning. It isn't a drug for working people at all.


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## cherrypie09 (Jan 20, 2009)

I was on amitriptyline for the IBS-D for 2 years at 10mg at night, they didnot help at all, at the moment i am on 30mg Mirtazapine for Anxiety and depression. One month ago the hospital prescribed Nortriptyline for the IBS-D 20mg at night, but i had a bad effect from them, they made me more uptight, anxious, shaky, made me feel like i waas going mad. I dont know if it was the Nortriptyline, or if it was because i am taking Mirtazapine 30mg as well, but i had to stop taking them, my doctor said to. I see my Gastro Spec again next week, i dont think he will be very pleased i have stopped taking them, he is expecting them to be starting work.


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## twixcookie (Jun 8, 2009)

So is the medical conclusion that IBS is caused by depression or anxiety? Is this a mind over matter thing?Is that why they are prescribing antidepressants, rather than treating the crazy bowel?


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

No. Science nor medicine believes that IBS is all just depression or all in your head.The body uses the exact same chemicals over and over. 5% of the serotonin in your body (or less) is in the brain with the mood nerves.95% of the serotonin in your body is in the gut nerves regulating speed of the gut and sensation of the gut.Usually you can take antidepressants at very low doses for IBS because the gut nerves are out in the open so get a higher dose per pill than the mood nerves in your head behind the blood brain barrier.


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## overitnow (Nov 25, 2001)

It's serotonin levels in the gut. Roughly (only) too much = D; too little = C. Using small doses of these and SSRIs can make changes in those levels. I don't think we have one little adjustment we can make to have to body work properly, although that would be the best solution.You might take a look at Linda's Calcium protocol or "cookies" threads in the Hypno Board or Ian's postings on probiotics or frantic1980 on the Bactrial Overgrowth Board for some other approaches.


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## twixcookie (Jun 8, 2009)

overitnow said:


> It's serotonin levels in the gut. Roughly (only) too much = D; too little = C. Using small doses of these and SSRIs can make changes in those levels. I don't think we have one little adjustment we can make to have to body work properly, although that would be the best solution.You might take a look at Linda's Calcium protocol or "cookies" threads in the Hypno Board or Ian's postings on probiotics or frantic1980 on the Bactrial Overgrowth Board for some other approaches.


How come the gastroenterologists aren't saying these things?


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Lots of gastroenterologists say those things.All the information anyone has about serotonin in the gut is from gastroenterologists doing medical research.Lots of them also talk a lot about probiotics. They aren't so keen on calcium (no data) but they do all admit it can be constipating for a lot of people who have to take it for all the reasons people need to take Calcium.Heck, the functional GI clinic here that does research even did a study on Low Carb diets for IBS-D. I swear the guy doing all the SIBO research is a doctor who sees patients and may even be a gastroenterogist.Now there are some bad ones out there going off of what they learned in med school 20 years ago that all we need is fiber, but that really isn't every single one of them.The clinic that did my CBT and teaches Hypnotherapy to people so they can do it for patients in other places is full of gastroenterologists, really.


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## Friday (Dec 9, 2008)

Update on my experience of tricyclics for helping calm down the diarrhoea:I've tried Tofranil (or other name Imipramine), not making me as drowsy like amitryptaline did which is good. Had 4 days where symptoms were much better but sadly back to the same old thing again - diarrhoea! The pains seem a bit better.I tried to search for info on the antidepressant site on this forum but I couldn't find much on Tofranil, most of it was from a few years back. Wondered if anyone had recently used it and if it worked at all?Am on 10mg still.


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## Genie75 (Jun 22, 2009)

Yeah my doctor wants me to go back onto antidepessants for IBS. I was initially on antidepressants for emotional reasons, and then I got IBS afterwards while I was on them. So I don't know if it worked for me or not. I have to admit I did get reasonably stable for a number of years, but I did not think that was due to the antidepressants. I thought it ws due to my change in diet, and other supplements I was taking. My psych told me to gradually taper off of the antidepressants as I didn't need them. So I'm shocked. I have one doctor telling me I dont' need them, and another doctor telling me I need them for my IBS. It is so frustrating. So I am still debating if I will go back on them again or not. Not sure. About the stress though, the last time my doctor said that to me, I said to her that I find it very stressful not being able to hardly eat. I mean if I could eat like everyone else could, that would cut my stress in half (at least)!.


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## Genie75 (Jun 22, 2009)

I do find that a LO-carb diet does get rid of my diarhea. Trouble is though, then I get very constipated. Which gives me a whole new set of problems. And then because I don't get enough natural soluble fibre when I stop eating carbs, then I get colon spasms which are not fun. So it's almost like I have to make a choice: do I want no diarhea, but constipation and colon spasms, or should I just suffer with the diarhea and no colon spasms.


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## Borrellifan (May 5, 2009)

Personally i don't think that depression is necesarily linked to IBS. I know for me i have never been depressed in my life untill i started getting severe ibs symptoms to the point that i had no social life and not much hope of getting any better. I have always been a go-getter and high achiever in life untill this happened to me. I know that if i was somehow cured of this horrible condition my life would be much brighter, thats for sure!


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## Glenda (Aug 15, 2000)

Gosh I have never in my life had a problem with Depression.(Except when my sister dropped dead of a heart attack in 1983)I was pretty upset and when I went to my doctor for another issue he asked what was wrong I looked upset and I said my sister died.He said Oh Your depressed then.I told him NO i'm not depressed just abit bummed out she died unexpectantly.That is when the so n' so put me on 25 mg' Amitryptaline and 1 pill spaced me out for 1 week.No more anti depressants ever again. Yes I can see why people can get depressed about IBS. Even have anxiety over it out of fear of not getting to a bathroom in time.But if you have No depression issue's at all , then how can it be linked as being caused by depression if your Not ?I don't understand the connection link.Any thoughts kathleen ???


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

IBS can be treated with antidepressants in people with NO depression at all.The dose used for IBS is usually much lower than that used for depression.The nerves in the abdomen controlling and sensing the gut use Serotonin just like the nerves in your head.The body uses the exact same chemical signals over and over in different places. You don't have a unique signal for each and every single thing in the body.The vast majority of the serotonin in your body is in the gut nerves. It is not just used for mood and nothing else. It is used for lots of things in the body. Almost all drugs can be used for things other than what they got approved for at first by the FDA, this is not unique to antidepressants.My high blood pressure medication is used to prevent attacks of migraine headaches (antidepressants also do that too as can some other things).Just because something gets a mental health label when initially approved doesn't mean it can't have effects that work for non mental health problems.Does that make sense now or do I need to try to explain that again in a different way. I feel like I repeat myself a lot on this topic, and thought I had already addressed this on this thread a couple of times already.


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## McGruber (Feb 18, 2009)

Kathleen M. said:


> Does that make sense now or do I need to try to explain that again in a different way. I feel like I repeat myself a lot on this topic, and thought I had already addressed this on this thread a couple of times already.


I do have one small question: though its not used for mental health per se, could the small dosage alter your current mental health? The idea of antidepressants concern me not because of the label but for side effects. Any thoughts on this? (Doctors seem quick to follow this route, which is concerning.)


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## keycat (Apr 6, 2009)

McGruber, I think that's a tricky question because the side effects listed for anti-depressants are always going to be those experienced by people taking it for depression, not IBS; those are the people that researchers recruit for their studies. So, for example, some anti-depressants come with a warning that they may increase thoughts of suicide. However, the makers of the drug came to that conclusion after testing it on people who already had depression. The effect of the drug on a person who is mentally healthy may be completely different and may not include thoughts of suicide at all. It's difficult for anyone to know exactly how he or she will react to a drug; it's even more difficult for those who are taking a medication for something other than its original intention. You just have to weigh the benefits and the risks, and try it if you think it might be worth it. Good luck.As for a possible link between IBS and depression - it wouldn't surprise me, given that both have to do with abnormal serotonin levels. As for IBS and anxiety - that link seems to be well-established. What is clear is that anxiety (or any other mental health problem, for that matter) does not cause IBS. IBS certainly causes anxiety in many people, but does it cause anxiety disorders? I don't know. I, for one, had anxiety problems LONG before I had IBS. Certainly the IBS didn't help matters, but in my case I would say definitively that IBS is not the cause of my anxiety disorders.


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## overitnow (Nov 25, 2001)

keycat said:


> IBS certainly causes anxiety in many people, but does it cause anxiety disorders? I don't know. I, for one, had anxiety problems LONG before I had IBS. Certainly the IBS didn't help matters, but in my case I would say definitively that IBS is not the cause of my anxiety disorders.


To the extent that I had an anxiety disorder, it derived completely from my pre-exisisting IBS. I can also see where, for some people, anxiety would cause such a repeated release of adrenaline as to account for repeated D. Since I think that serotonin played no particular role in either my IBS nor my recovery, I think that generalizations are difficult at best.Mark


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## Glenda (Aug 15, 2000)

Great Explinations by everyone.Kathleen had great medical explinations and and I enjoyed KeyCats and McGrubers opinions too.I always wondered about these issue's.I know we repeat ourselves alot in regards to anti depressant medications used to treat IBS when we have NO depression issue's and could it alter our mental state.When my sister died in 83 , I told the doctor I was Not depressed , but he insisted I take the Amitryptaline.Why did that One 25 mg tablet mess my head up so bad for 1 full week ?I lost my complete memory.Was this an Allergic reaction ?Or did it some how alter my mental state and erase my memory of who I was , my husband and son too ?I could have slit my wrists with a knife and never felt it , or could have cared less if I died.I was so far gone mentally.Something wrong happened because of this drug ?But WHAT ?How could it erase your complete memory for 1 whole week ?After this horrible reaction that I under went , I swore I would never touch another anti depressant for any reason. Not even possibly using one for "D" controll.This type med's scare the hell out of me.I wouldn't wish my expierence on any one. To lose your memory for that long was horrifing.Any thoughts on Memory Loss Kathleen ??


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

> I do have one small question: though its not used for mental health per se, could the small dosage alter your current mental health? The idea of antidepressants concern me not because of the label but for side effects. Any thoughts on this? (Doctors seem quick to follow this route, which is concerning.)


Well given that serotonin dysregulation seems to be a major issue in IBSers it seems logical they would look to serotonin effecting drugs and go there "quickly".But your mileage may vary.Generally for the tricyclics you need a pretty high dose before they see any change in mood in depressed people and IBS doses are well below that.A heck of a lot of non-mental health drugs have effects on the mind somewhere in the side effect list. I can understand not wanting to mess with your brain chemistry at all but then you'd have to avoid most things in the diet as even carbohydrates and some of the amino acids as well as some vitamins and minerals can be used to effect mood.Most of the side effects listed for tricyclics are from the higher doses used for depression and tend to be in 1% or less of all people who take them. The main ones you find in most people for IBS is a bit of dry mouth or feeling sleepy the first week or two. That is why you take them at bedtime. This has nothing to do with the serotonin. They do effect other things and one of them is that they also are very potent antihistamines that get into the brain and histamine is the "stay awake" signal. That is why benedryl is packaged as a sleep aid. You block histamine in the brain and you get drowsy. With a bit of time your body tends to compensate for that effect.I have no idea why Glenda had an extreme and unusual reaction to that particular drug. It certainly isn't the experience of the many people here who have taken it, or what I experience on it. They usually have it on a list of drugs not to give people that already have problems with memory but that was such a low single dose that it doesn't seem like any of the what it does in most people would explain it. We don't really understand why 1 in a million or 1 in ten thousand (which is the range for some pretty unusual reactions) occur in the individuals they occur in. I mean one of my Dad's friends had the unusual (about 1 in 10,000) to valium where instead of mellowing you out it is like you took a hit of amphetamines.Everyone has a slightly different set of receptors, chemistry, liver enzymes, etc. They are studying that and hope to some day be able to run a panel to see which drugs of the several we have is the one least likely to cause problems and most likely to be effective. I do know some ethnicities tend to have different liver enzymes than the typical European one and some countries tend to use either much higher or much lower does of some drugs because their population tends to be either very sensitive or very insensitive to the effects of certain drugs.


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## Friday (Dec 9, 2008)

I thought the doc had suggested I try tricyclics simply because one of their main side effects is constipation which is just what I need! ie to slow down the gut motility. He said it would have no effect on my 'emotions' as the dose is too low.


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

At doses too low for mood tricyclics can tend to slow things down a bit, probably a bigger effect is damping down the oversensitivity of the gut to internal and external stimuli to reduce the pain.


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## Glenda (Aug 15, 2000)

My husband often wondered if that one 25 mg. capsule of Amitryptaline might have given me a brain stroke One Hour after I took it ????But , the symptoms of a stroke would not disappear one week later.You'd have lingering effects.Plus the Er doctor noticed nothing to suggest that possibility.This will always be a Mystery.


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## Friday (Dec 9, 2008)

Any idea how long it should be before the constipating/pain reduction effect might happen? My doc didn't tell me that!


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

That tends to click in faster than the mood changes but a 4-6 week trial should be more than long enough to know if it helps, but I think it tends to hit sooner than that.These usually are every day, not just when you need it immediate relief kinds of meds.


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## Friday (Dec 9, 2008)

Thanks for your reply Kathleen. I've only been on this tricyclic at 10mg for a week or so, so maybe too early to know if it will help with slowing down my gut. Fingers crossed!Yes, was told to take it every night before bed, but it doesn't seem to sedate me like Amitryptaline did which is good.


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## chemist (Mar 16, 2009)

Dear all,I am a 30y/o male who has been experimenting with many different kinds of meds for IBS-dHaving read this:http://www.med.unc.edu/medicine/fgidc/antidepressants.pdfI asked my doc to give amitryptyline (a TCA) a go. I have no history of depression, but do have anxiety issues which have grown with the IBS for the usual reasons.For anyone who is concerned about their affect, please note that they are _officially _recommended as a second line treatment (at 10mg) by the NHS medications body NICE. At this level, the drug should not generally affect your mental state. Severely depressed people take up to 200mg per day.Nothing much happened with 10mg so after 3 weeks I returned to the doc and she agreed to up it to 50mg. Each time I increased, the next day was rather fuzzy, and generally I have a slightly dry mouth, but aside from that no probs. IBS-D wise, I think it may be slightly constipating as I tend not to suffer the background morning D as much any more. I really should not take that for granted. However, if I have a long meeting to attend or am going on a journey, I do still get stomach cramps - although arguably the D is less severe.So for me, it's an interesting option which I am still monitoring.In any case I would recommend starting on 10mg for a while then working up. Starting on a larger dose is asking for trouble.Am always here to listen to peoples' experiences with meds / therapy. I think it shows character and a determination to get better.


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## Friday (Dec 9, 2008)

That's a really interesting article, puts my mind at rest about whether taking a small amount will affect my brain/emotions! It seems not, good!I've just started taking 20mg of imipramine as the 10mg didn't seem to make much difference to the diarrhoea problem. Am feeling a bit nauseous, but that may be a coincidence.


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## keycat (Apr 6, 2009)

Chemist, that is a great article - thank you for sharing it. Friday, the nausea may be a side effect of the drug you are taking, but if it's anything like Effexor, it may go away as you continue treatment. I had nausea with Effexor but only for the first two months or so of taking it.


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## Borrellifan (May 5, 2009)

Chemist - Good to see you back! This forum needs people like you who are willing to share in your experiences.I for one have started taking L-Tryptophan and 5-HTP to try and regulate my body's seratonin production. These are basically all natural mood enhancers which have the same effect on seratonin production as anti-depressants do, only without the nasty side-effects.I just started taking these the other day and can already feel the benefits. They make me much calmer and relaxed throughout the day and i have noticed less pain and less spasms as well. Unfortunetly the D has not really stopped, especially when i wake in the morning. They do make me feel more positive overall and not so down all the time about my condition. They do have a tendancy to make me drowsy/sleepy at times which is why i take the 5-htp before sleep.So far they certaintly have not cured me but are probably the best thing i have tried to date, and i have tried alot!


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## chemist (Mar 16, 2009)

Thanks - v.happy to help.Just fyi - yesterday was remarkable. I felt 100% fine for an entire day, which included a lengthy stroll around a very busy London + a long night spent getting rather drunk.I haven't had a day like that for many years.I don't know why it happened but appreciated every second of [email protected] - could you please keep us up to date on the L-Tryptophan and 5-HTP?


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

While the natural stuff tends to have the reputation of being completely side effect free, they can have side effects.Even with natural stuff do not assume that if some is good, more is better and there can't be an overdose. Everything is a toxin at some dose. People can over do the natural stuff and get serotonin syndrome which can be pretty serious.http://insomnia.emedtv.com/tryptophan/tryp...de-effects.html has the info on what to watch out for with serotonin syndrome and tryptophanhttp://www.nutritional-supplements-health-...de-effects.html has the info for 5-HTP.A lot of people can take them safely, but everything that is biologically active has side effects and be sure to stick to the doses from studies that have been found to be the typically safe range and don't be tempted to see if more is better. Just like with pharmaceuticals usually more often means an increased risk of side effects.Also with anyone taking any supplements discuss them with your doctor if you are going to be having surgery. Some tend to thin the blood and other ones can interact with the sedatives to knock you out so you may need to stop them for a week or so before surgery.


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