# Ibsacol



## LFC1 (Apr 29, 2003)

Anyone heard of, or used this before?Quote from their website: www.ibsacol.com-------------------------------------------------"Ibsacol is the dietary supplement specially formulated for an irritable bowel, developed in New Zealand.Our clinical trials have proved the safety of Ibsacol and shown benefits with dysfunctional intestinal motility. Sufferers have reported fast and sustainable benefits across a wide range of symptoms with no side effects. freedom from urgency and panic normal stool absence of cramping and bloating absence of nausea and griping absence of flatulence absence of constipation increased comfort and peace of mind relief from associated symptoms of depression the ability to lead a normal social life"


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## mjefferson96 (Sep 6, 2002)

yes, i tried it, it was a very hard compressed pill, and for me it did nothing and possibly made me a little worse. the best things i have found that actually work for me is Florastor two times a day and Culturelle once a day. hope this helps


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

I tried it because i had nothing to lose but $60.00. It did not seem to do anything. However, I may try it again just in case it does improve my good/bad prostaglandin ratio.I am a big believer in fish oil (mercury free -- EPA & DHA -- omega 3) and borage oil (GLA -- omega 6)


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## overitnow (Nov 25, 2001)

OK...What's good and bad prostaglandin?


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

There are several prostaglandins. some are inflammatory and some are anti-inflam...


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## Pikey (Jan 12, 2001)

I have used Ibsacol for over a year now and ! absolutly LOVE IT! It has basically cured my IBS. I know some people have tried this product but the key is consistancy. I try to tell everyone to make sure you take the 4 pills, 3 times a day and DON'T miss any and you will see it slowly starting to make a difference. I can't tell you how many ways Ibsacol has changed my life. I feel so sad for all the people who are suffering and don't need to. If they would just take a chance with Ibsacol and give it time to work, it changes everything. I hope my experience can help one of you! Please e-mail me with any questions-Nikko0990###yahoo.com


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

Susan, the moderator of fibro, thinks it works. MNL, thinks it works. I trust those two.As I think about it, when I was on the stuff, I was doing better than any other time over the past 15 years or so. However, I also made several other changes. So I do not know what % was due to ibsacol.I think that after about the 25th day I got lax and did not re-order or take as prescribed and that is about the time that I started my decline.I'll try it again, and if it works I'll make it a regular part of my program.


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## Susan Purry (Nov 6, 2001)

Yes, I take Ibsacol, for about 2 years now. I'm very glad of it too! My D and pain has improved, also bloating and unexpectedly, hayfever.


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## dianne (Jan 16, 2000)

Hi .. anyone who is starting Ibsacol, or is re-starting Ibsacol, please feel free to email me and I will try to help with extra advice as you go along.The dose for each individual can be quite specificand we are always happy to help.Kel1059 -- sounds like your dose needs working with ? Maybe with help we can get it right for you this time.Please feel free to email me at dicad###ihug.co.nz.Hi Susan -- hope you're having a lovely early summer over there ? And Pikey -- hi to you too.Kind wishesDianneFor the record, I am a director of the company that developed and produces Ibsacol in New Zealand.


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## Susan Purry (Nov 6, 2001)

Hi Dianne, yes having a good summer so far thanks, particularly as it has been cool lately







Upped my Ibsacol dose a month or so ago and am feeling really quite good with the IBS. Hope you are well, best wishes,


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

Susan, how much do you take and did you ever decrease your dose and then notice a definite downturn or was it more gradual?I am hoping this helps with my food intolerances. The only other time that i had experienced a marked reduction in my food intolerances was at the tail end of my antifungal treatment. In fact all my symptoms were just about wiped out during that period.This whole thing is so complicated.i started my VSL#3 this morning. We'll see if that has immune modulating effects.


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## dianne (Jan 16, 2000)

Hi -- the doses Susan is taking are not properly relevant to IBS but more to her wide variation in symptoms. I'm sure she can tell us more, but it would be unwise to use her dose level as any guide for a more usual IBS sufferer. Please email me if you need advice -- dicad###ihug.co.nzkind thoughtsdianneFor the record, I am a director of the New Zealand company that developed and produces Ibsacol.


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## california123 (Jun 8, 2003)

I went to the website and clicked on research hoping to see something about clinical trials etc. for such a miracle drug. All I found were letters from two doctors, who appear to say that the drug was safe and appeared to have no adverse side effects. Nothing about effectiveness mind you, but I guess they're saying that in their study of 27 nothing bad happened. Think I'll wait for the clinical trials.


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## DavidLA (Nov 28, 2000)

Kel or Anyone-Just wondering what the ingredients are? Is it a type of fiber?? Thanks.


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## Lynda J (Mar 4, 2003)

I doubt if you will find much on clinical test on Ibsacol. It is an herbal compound. It does work.It has helped me greatly. I stopped taking it for a while and my gas and pain became much more intense. Went back on and after about a week felt much better.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

It's a type of fat. Technically it is an ester. An ester is kind of like 2 fats that meet each other and the junction point is an oxygen atom.it looks like this fat----O----fatI am guessing that maybe it might exist in very amall quantities in coconut oil or something else. Or maybe they are constructing this molecule from 2 fatty acids. They are being secretive about it.Do a search on CMO for better info. CMO is another fatty acid ester that has been shown to cure certain types of arthritis-- either osteo or rheumatoid???search ------> CMO + ester + arthritis (should give a good search.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

LYNDA J,How long ago did you start taking the Ibsacol and how long did it take to work. Were you able to cut down to 6 capsules per day or are you being maintained at 9 to 12?Is it helping you more than the juicing?


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## Fachtna (May 22, 2002)

is it any good in non D IBS?


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

fach,I hardly ever have Diarrhea. I do not think a person has to have diarrhea. I think that any type of irregularity can qualify.i think the best evidence as to whether or not it might help would be if there is enough evidence that there is some type of immune response happening.For me, my evidence is that I have severe reactions depending on the type of food that I eat. If I eat something that is moldy, yeasty, cheese, dairy, wheat, my symptoms end up being far greater. I would guess that if a person is always exactly the same no matter what they eat then they would probably not be helped. But even that is not for certain.


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## dianne (Jan 16, 2000)

Hi Kel .. sorry, but I need to correct some info you posted. Ibsacol is not connected in any way to CMO.I'm correcting it before any confusion arises, because just to start with, Ibsacol is not based on any animal product. I liked your fat - 0 - fat which is quite true -- but it sounds terrible if you say it out loud !Hope you don't mind my correction.Kind thoughtsDianne


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

> quote: . Ibsacol is not connected in any way to CMO


Sorry, but they are connected in several ways. They are both fatty acid esters. they both purport to alter prostaglandin levels. They both deal with conditions where there is some type of inflammation albeit minor. the similarities probably go on and on. Of course, the molecular formula is different. At least I think it is different. I wonder if it it the same???? Maybe it might be the same. Maybe you are operating out of new zealand for patent violation protection. Am I being paranoid? I have often wondered if CMO would work for IBS. CMO can be purchased at a health food store for a little less than Ibsacol -- Source Naturals carries a line. CMO people say that you only need to take it for a month or two and you are good for life (or maybe a tune up once a year).That would be great if Ibsacol would work that way. If you have a patent on this product why can't you share more info on it?I understand that double blind studies are expensive so I am not ignorant like california123 who thinks that there has to be proof in order to try it. However, it would be nice to know more about it. I think the more people know about it the greater your sales could be.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

I think it is a mistake to try and get people to think that Ibsacol and CMO are completely unrelated.The only reason I gambled on Ibsacol in the first place was because I did extensive research on CMO. When I found out that Ibsacol was similar to CMO I got very excited. I started to really think that there could be a basis for this product being effective.Stubborn people like california123 could be more willing to try it if they were exposed to more info. I'd like to say one more thing on double blind studies. These idiot researchers (at major universities) don't like to test products like ibsacol because that flys in the face of the major drug companies that are funded a lot of their research. Also, products like Ibsacol probably don't work if the patient continues to eat foods that are extremely symptom provoking or if the patient has a highly dysbiotic gut.p.s. flux and eric completely dismiss the notion of dysbiosis.


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## california123 (Jun 8, 2003)

Stubborn people like Califonia123 don't go with what's written on a company's website because I've been an advertising copywriter for 20 years and I know when companies have nothing substantial to say. They get "endorsements" from people that aren't real endorsements--doctors who say the product will do no harm--and testimonials from people you could never track down or question. I am impressed with their marketing, but that doesn't mean I would pay for their product. At least I can say I never wrote copy that encouraged anyone to ingest anything more dangerous then a chocolate chip cookie.


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## carly sarah jacobs (May 28, 2003)

hi there, my boyfriend has been using it for a while now and it has dramatically helped his symptoms, he has IBS-D. So I would definately consider it. But like anything these things are better for some people than othersCarly


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

Carly,Thanks for the input. I am starting to collect some positive responses to confirm my wavering belief that the Ibsacol did in fact play a large part in my "perfect period".{California -[...here I come... (sing it everyone) ]} ....where was was IOh yeah.....It is wise to be skeptical. I hate to get taken. I have tried a lot of things and most have failed, but I don't really regret the money I spent because this is my sorry lot in life and I have no choice.Immense progress has been made by spending money on different products and spending money on non-mainstream doctors whom I consider to be medical mavericks.


> quote: Max Planck won the 1918 Nobel Prize in Physics. He once weighed in as to why science is slow to change even in the presence of overwhelming evidence that it should do so. "A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light," Planck said, "but rather because its opponents eventually die and a new generation grows up that is familiar with the ideas from the beginning."


Eventually (probably within the next 12 to 18 months) I will hit a point where I will either be cured or I will reach a level of "control" whereby I can accept that it will get no better. until then, I will continue to spend money on treatments that have a fairly plausible chance of working.The additional "faith" that I had in Ibsacol was also due to the incredibly large number of research studies on the very important role of essential fatty acids and their ability to control dozens of illnesses. People take fatty acids for granted but I think they are much more important to supplement than B vitamins.Fatty acids function in a similar manner as CMO and Ibsacol. They both work to alter prostaglandin levels. Essential fatty acids like a-LA perform a number of tasks in the body. The main difference is that products like CMO and Ibsacol are suppossed to be many times stronger ---are they??????? I do not know. If the problem is not related to immune, prostaglandins...then it will probably not work.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

Oh diiiianne where are you?Well, i started the Ibsacol today. I took all 12 capsules over the first 9 hours. About 7 hours in I became very warm all over. In fact it is still the case right now. It is not a bad feeling. if anything it is good. I think i have low body temperature due to some problem or another. In fact, before I started the anti-fungals I had chronic ice-cold extremities and dizziness. The antifungals seemed to completely eliminate that symptom.I wonder if the Ibsacol could have caused such a quick response. I don't remember that happening the first time I took it. Maybe it is placebo effect or due to some other reason. However, the only other time i remember ever getting feverish all over was back in the days when I was making an extreme recovery and my symptoms were dropping left and right. I can't remember if i was taking Ibsacol at that time.Dianne, if Ibsacol solves my last 2 remaining problems (stool formation and peristalsis) and i take a lie detector test to validate it.... can I either get a big discount or a share of the profits on Ibsacol if I become a tireless promoter and hype-master of it????


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

> quote:it looks like this fat----O----fat


I have to correct myself. CMO is not a .....fat---O---fat ....but ....alcohol----o----fati am assuming Ibsacol is the same because i believe any ester takes this form.


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## Susan Purry (Nov 6, 2001)

Hi Kel.


> quote:Susan, how much do you take and did you ever decrease your dose and then notice a definite downturn or was it more gradual?


I'm not with you. Decrease the dose and notice a downturn in improvement, or symptoms?







I take a different dose from the recommended because I have one or two other medical conditions that complicate the picture. So, I don't think telling you my dose is going to help at all, in fact it will just confuse the issue.


> quote:Maybe you are operating out of new zealand for patent violation protection. Am I being paranoid?


Maybe the Ibsacol people just happen to be New Zealanders? What a thought!







California:


> quote:for such a miracle drug.


Remember it's not a drug, it's a food supplement. And for that matter, it's not a 'miracle' either.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

Dianne,So far so good. My asthma is almost non-existant. It has not been this under control since early March when the temperature was still below freezing and I was still in my good period.This morning I felt no peristalsis so I gave myself an enema and not much came out -- a lot of mucous came out. However, two hours later I felt peristalsis (and that rarely happens). Stool came out that was double in size over any of the previous 13 days. It looked very normal unlike the usual situation.For me that is an incredible sign. Also, mass quantities of mucous came gushing out of me. I am uncertain as to what that means.I believe that I may be responding rapidly because I am doing just about everything else as far as diet, essential fatty acids, milk thistle (CMO people recommend that), garlic and herbs, nystatin and other things.Last time I took the Ibsacol, I did not notice anything until I came up with my garlic / herbal antifungal antibacterial concoction. It was when I included that into my regimen that I experienced perfection for 2 straight weeks before altering my diet and crashing.All I can say is that so far so good. I have my fingers crossed because I want this nightmare to end.


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## Fachtna (May 22, 2002)

any reports of non D IBS benifitting from Ibsacol?


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

Dianne,More good news. today is the 3rd day on the Ibsacol. i am taking it religiously as prescribed.Around 11:30AM I had a bowel movement that was an 8.5 on a scale of 1 to 10.yesterday's was a great improvement over the previous 13 or 14 days and today's was almost perfectly normal.I still have my fingers crossed, but I am convinced that the Ibsacol did something. This explains PERFECTLY why I had that nice long stretch of perfect bowel function a while ago. I WAS TAKING IBSACOL AS PRESCRIBED. When i started to cut back to (save money) that is when things faultered. i remember it very well now. I ate a food (sweet potato) that gave me bad diarrhea and that broke my perfect streak. it was around that time that i never came even close to getting really good again. All i experienced was several days intermixed within a long period.i'll tell you......... I had completely forgot about the fact that ibsacol could have been the key factor in my recovery because my good streak was started right after the heavy dosing of garlic and antifungal/bacterial herbs. Also, i was taking Primal Defense and I placed very high importance on that. The Ibsacol could still be giving me just a temporary quick fix. the only way i will know for sure if it is a long term treatment is if it continues to work at around the 90th day and then the 180th day and so on.Over the last 7 months i have also experienced some very short lived remission periods upon restarting antifungal drugs. therefore, something tells me that either my immune system is getting some type of sudden boost due to the fungal load being reduced or (some other unexplained mechanism is happening).I think that my immune system is just very screwed up and that antifungals are just taking a temporary load off of it. However, in the beginning that was not the case because the antifungals gave me no relief whatsoever. In fact they made me very sick. So it is possible that I needed to get the fungal problem under control first otherwise Ibsacol probably would have been a total failure.also, my doctor told me that i delayed my recovery because i did not start the mercury / lead / and nickel (stratospheric amounts of nickel) chelation when he wanted me to. Instead i did it after the antifungal treatment. All the literature agrees with this doctor.Hopefully I will get it right this time and hopefully the Ibsacol is my "near miracle". although that is foolishness because i know that a person must do several things to overcome this dreaded curse.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

Today, saturday, things crashed (sort of). bad bowel function or better yet--- things returned to the status quo.Yesterday, I had my bad brain fog, some fatigue, and the cognitive dysfunction returned. I am 99% positive it was due to eating an avocado thursday night. The store had marked them down in price which makes me suspicious also I had had some very nasty reactions to avocados in the past. Especially the jumbo ones from florida. I knew better than to buy it but i did anyway. I must have been feeling confidant due to the ibsacol.However, friday i was definitely off even though my bowel function was near perfect. Today it caught up with me.The same thing happened to me before when i was on the Ibsacol. I have to eat perfect or I will still get the immune reaction. However, that is not to say that the Ibsacol does not work.I believe it does work but its effects are only so powerful. ...and even though my bowel function crashed, my sinus and asthma is still at an all-time low.I really think that it could be fungus that i am severely hypersensitive to. I believe that certain fruits and vegetables may be high in fungus, but then again the avocado (like bananas) may just have some protein that i can not tolerate.back to the drawing board.(one other interesting thing.... and this may sound crazy, especially to the skeptics like myself, but around 5pm yesterday my friend told me to take the homeopathic mold/yeast formula so i did and within 5 minutes my heart rate kicked up and then within 30 minutes I felt 50 to 75% better -- sounds fake--i'm clueless)


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

saturday around 5pm I had a very fast turnaround. I had another movement and this one looked formed and close to very normal.I guess the avocado threw me pretty good but the Ibsacol has helped to keep things from spinning completely out of control.In the past when I eat a really bad food, it takes me at least 3 days to recover.what else can it be except an out of control immune response/reactions to proteins and to fungus/mold/yeast.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

Dianne,What is the largest quantity of Ibsacol that i can safely take without risking a permanent dependance at that high dose?In other words, I don't want my body to become dependant on extremely large quantities if i can get by on 12 capsules per day.However, I am a very bad case. I am reacting to almost everything. The last few times i ate bison I ended up with huge amounts of mucous. I am running out of safe foods.Would it be safe to take 18 capsules per day for 2 weeks and then each week after that decrease it by 2 capsules until i get back down to 12 per day.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

Today, Sunday, was another good day for me from a bowel perspective. This is really amazing. I have tried so hard to get this thing under control and I am really thinking that Ibsacol is the real deal. The only question that remains is --will it hold out?I absolutely could not get myself back to the level that I was at when I was taking the Ibsacol a few months ago. I totally dismissed the idea that the Ibsacol was the reason behind the sucess. Actually I did not dismiss it -- I did not even think of it.I don't necessarily think that Ibsacol is going to be a cure all for everyone. It seemed to give way on a couple of occasions when I ate something allergenic but for the most part this stuff is more powerful than anything else that I have ever tried and with no side effects (that I know of).I think that possibly a person might have to clean up their diet quite a bit (it took years for me to discover all the bad foods). Also, the antifungal drugs helped me get that issue under control. ...and then the garlic and herbal antibacterial and antifungal treatments have helped considerably. But it seems that the missing piece to the puzzle is the immunomodulator--Ibsacol.


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## dianne (Jan 16, 2000)

Hi kel .. sorry for not being back sooner, but I have been sick with flu -- it's mid-wintertime down here in New Zealand.I am delighted to hear of your success with Isbacol.Let's see if I can help a bit more.The real key to on-going success is compliance and diligence in the first four to six weeks. And this should include avoiding all your known trigger foods if possible to give your body a real chance. It will pay off bigtime if you take extra care in the first few weeks of the so-called loading dose phase.Trying to reduce your dose too soon, as you say you did last time, will not work as well long term. The body needs time to adjust with sustained levels of the fatty acids; then the process really changes and lower doses can sustain it. How long have you been taking it this time ? I think if you need extra, take 4 x 4 capsules for one week, then reduce back to the 4 caps x 3 dailyto complete a five or six week period. Then I can help you to reduce the doses -- but not before then.By the way -- Susan wins the prize ! The reason we are in New Zealand is as simple as the fact we all live here !!







I can understand why people suppose we might be a giant scam -- but seriously, Auckland city has less than one million people, and the whole country has less than four million. We tend to all know each other, or some relative or another, so we are a fairly honest bunch. And our product is genuinely innovative and good. There have been many on the board who have used, still use, with great success. But they tend to leave the board and not return once life is normal again. If you do a board search on Ibsacol, the old stories are still there somewhere because Jeff is so good with the archives.Fachylachy -- Ibsacol can be excellent for constipation and the alternating type IBS. Taken at a much lower dose, it has helped many to have better peristalsis. The success rate is not as high as the D type, but it is well above 50%.Hi Jeff -- hope you won't move this post to Products and Info. I'm just trying to respond to the questions that have been asked.Kel -- be sure to drink enough water. And maybe you don't need a week on a higher dose ? Maybe be patient a little while -- you can always try a week on a higher dose if you're not happy after two or three weeks on 4 x 3.Hope this answers the questions for you ?Kind thoughts DianneFor the record, I am a director of the New Zealand company that developed and produces Ibsacol.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

> quote: I can understand why people suppose we might be a giant scam


Dianne,I guess I was kind of paranoid. i really did suspect it was a scam. I try very hard to gather as much information as i can before trying products or treatments. I need to be careful with my money. I have quite a bit of fear that I won't be able to work due to all of my health problems. However, at this point, I know this stuff works. (but, i am still leary about the future -- I don't know if i can take another crushing defeat) (if you say it will hold out then i will take your word for it and just wait and see)The reason i was suspicious is because of Pikey and some other woman. They seemed like they were "plants". Pikey showed up in january of 2001 right before lotronex was yanked and then within 2 months was hyping Ibsacol. She said it was as good as lotronex after only taking it 2 weeks. It seemed like something wasn't right.I was also suspicious of jlynus. She was hyping it also, and then some skeptic came on the thread and was being very critical. Jeff Roberts had to shut her up.I think that being highly critical can hurt a person sometimes. That skeptic is probably still suffering.I started to think that it would be the ultimate scam --- to come out with a product right around the time that lotronex was being yanked. I had good reason to suspect that there might be something to the product based on CMO research and the fatty acids that my doctor insists that I take ---EPA, DHA, and GLA. I know that they can reverse the prostaglandins and increase pg1 and pg3 (????)It is strange the way it is so effective. It literally blows my mind. It is not that it is a cure-all because if I eat the wrong thing I will experience problems, but I guess I am in shock that it works in the first place. Imagine suffering for 20 years with no relief in sight.I had experienced significant symptom reduction after the antifungals but then i was actually experiencing even worse rebound food intolerances. In other words if i was super strict I would be okay (except-- i would still have the problem of minimal stool formation and minimal peristalsis). Then I had some major setbacks but i came back from those. then i started on the Primal defense and about 4 or 5 days after that I started on the Ibsacol.It was the 5th day of the ibsacol that I had perfect peristalsis and perfect stool formation.However, the day before I had formally established my garlic and herbal treatment program. The herbs were approx 15 grams which is about 30 capsules of high potency, top of the line herbs known for their antibacterial/ antifungal activity.Therefore I became convinced that the herbs and garlic were responsible for my turnaround. They were very crucial but now I realize that the Ibsacol was the key factor. I won't know for a while if i can drop the herbs from my program. The few times that i did so --the gas came back.i am still concerned about the issue of yeast in the colon. If i have a stubborn yeast problem then i need to get rid of it.I think the Ibsacol is helping with the asthma and maybe even the sinus congestion. However, today and yesterday were horrible. Of course, I spent an hour each day in a heavily wooded area. That would be great if Ibsacol could wipe out my seasonal allergies.Do you have plans for another fatty acid ester that can solve airborn allergies? pollen, trees, mold spores?I think I will start on 16 capsules per day.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

Progress Report:My bowel function today was very good. I had formed stool and when that happens most of my other symptoms are way down. The formed stool issue was my last really big hurdle. I am 99% convinced that when I don't have formed stool (i.e., it is very small in volume but never hard as in typical constipation), it is due to an immune system reaction of some sort. It has to be an issue of the prostaglandins and the leukotriens.I even gave singulair a trial because of its impact on blocking leukotriens ----it did not work. Singulair may be specific to the lungs.Anyway, i am still in a complete state of shock that this is working. I even thought about taking a picture of my stool as it lies on the front page of my morning newspaper as evidence of what i am saying. Of course, I would also have to go off of it and then return to my prior self and snap those photos as further proof. however, I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. Mostly because I think that it would probably fail for 50% of the people out there. The reason for the failure is due to people not knowing about their food intolerances and also the issue of dysbiosis.MNL wrote something about ibsacol and he cautioned that if a person has dysbiosis then they need to clean that up first. i think that a few weeks of enemas combined with a long term program of a good probiotic would be a good start. i think VSL#3, primal defense, or iflora are acceptable.I also think that my herbal and garlic program is very good. i went off the herbs for an entire week last monday and sure enough my gas came back last night. i ate a very large bowl of aduki beans w/ coconut oil and olive oil and that caused a fair amount of gas. Much more than usual. however, the gas was the pain and cramp free type ---thank God! also, I did not take my digestive enzymes or any beano so maybe that helped. But it makes me wonder if I am wasting my money on the VSL#3???Dianne, i don't think I will be recommending this to anyone until i experience at least 2 months of solid, hardcore evidence. ...and even at that point, I think i will caution others about why it may fail if it does fail. I think i learned from my mistakes --i hope.One of my mistakes towards the end of my initial encounter with it was that i was not taking it in a strict manner right around the 3rd week. i would forget and then try to catch up on a dose, or i would take it 5 minutes before eating.Also, i think my biggest mistake was that i was consuming way too much olive oil --omega 9 and omega 6 types of oil. I know that that the omega 6 oil can have a counterproductive action against the beneficial omega 3 fatty acids. I was using a lot of oil to supplement my sparse diet. Big mistake. however, I read that olive oil is less likely to interfere as is coconut oil.that's it for today. i am still amazed but at the same time I am just waiting for it to all come crashing down.


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## sstorm7 (Nov 15, 2000)

Thanks for all your posts, Kel. It would be great if we would all document and post our results so completely.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

Sstorm,thanks. I was wondering if some people think of me as weird for doing this but I know that by keeping track of things it is going to help me finally solve this wretched curse. Imagine a scientist who did not keep a log of his experiments.... I almost hated posting the news about what the avocado did to me because any failure would make dianne's product not look so good. Also, not only do i want to get better to end this misery but I would love to be able to share my success story with others who come here as hopeless as me. I think that the only way I can offer a very good testimonial is if I leave no detail out, and hopefully my mistakes will help someone else avoid them. Posting bad news could be unfair to dianne's product.... it is very tricky subject because the product could work but the person could be doing something wrong or be too impatient. Therefore, what i am doing may not be the right thing to do. However, after I had the first semi-formed stool I knew something was working. Also, I had previously experienced extreme success with the product but had given all the credit to the antibacterial and antifungal herbs plus the primal defense. It was only after repeatedly failing to duplicate those results that I decided to reorder the Ibsacol.I believe that I am responding very quickly to it this time because I already had consumed 360 capsules, so maybe there was still some effect hanging around.The one nagging question I have is...." why are my prostaglandins and leukotrienes so messed up in the first place?" what happened to me? Am I treating the root cause of my illness or am I treating symptoms? What is the root cause? Why the explosion in allergies the last 7 years? Were the antibiotics the straw that broke the camels back? Could fungus/ yeast really so completely screw with my immune system that my immune system gets turned inside out? I need to know.


> quote:I read that olive oil is less likely to interfere as is coconut oil.


what i meant was that both of them are less likely to interfere with the beneficial properties of omega 3 fatty acids as opposed to oils like corn, almond, walnut, safflower, sunflower that are very high in omega 6.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

Gas is back big time, and it smells bad. It came back yesterday but did not smell. today all i ate was a large quantity of black beans and olive & coconut oil. I have been taking the garlic pretty much everyday. However, I quit taking the antibacterial/fungal herbs about 7 days ago. This has to explain it because I was passing only very small amounts of gas for several months. The last 4 months the minimal gas has been due to the herbs and garlic. the 4 months prior to that it was due to extreme restriction of carbohydrates.My carb intake is about 5 or 6 times higher than last fall when I was passing no gas. therefore, I can only draw one conclusion..... the way for me to control gas on a diet of moderate carb intake is to keep taking these stupid herbs and the garlic to control something living inside of my intestines (bacteria????)it will be interesting to see if Ibsacol can control the gas a couple months from now. I suspect --no, but we will see.Also, there was a 3 week period prior to the ibsacol and primal defense when i was experience moderate relief in all symptoms the day after my garlic and herbal concoction. I really think that everything is working synergistically. My GI problems were so severe that there is no way that only one treatment method was going to solve it.


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

What an interesting thread to observe from the sidelines. I must find time to come back again more often!







KEL's progress is about what one would expect from one with that history, symptom set, and the nature of the effects of substances such as those in the IBSACOL formulation.By way of clarification on the dysbiosis quote, KEL is correct about something I once pointed out concrning immunomodulation with various long chain fatty acids (there is quite a bit in the literature about it actually but to find it you have to think outside this stupid box that people in healthcare and in general try to put so-called "IBS"...a SYMPTOM BASED DIAGNOSIS according to the current diagnostic standards...into).Just as asthma used to be treated as a psychosomatic stress-induced disease before medicine knew what IgE was and what allergy was (hey, you know what my favorite former ASTHMA TREATMENT is? Cigarettes. Yep. Cigarettes were an asthma treatment at one time!)...so called IBS is will eventually disapeprar into an undersdtanding of its various causes. It becomes more clear daily that the population being told they have IBS is comprised of several populations of people with similar and dissimilar symptoms which overlap to varying degress because they share to a greater or lesser degree various underlying causes for their symptoms. There is no single causal basis for the multiple symptom sets. There are commonalities, and non-commonalities it is clear.Now among those various populations there is a populaton whcih can likely benefit from immunomodulation...the population where lost oral tolerance is a major basis for their symptomology.See this slide show from University of Sunderland to know what that Oral Tolerance thing is http://www.sunderland.ac.uk/~hs0acu/lec01.ppt This is safe to say...AS LONG AS the lost oral tolerance is not due to either active pathogenic infection, or post-enteritis and the normal flora has not been restored. This can screw up oral tolerance nicely as well. And people will test positive for non-allergic reactivity to foods and addivies just the same regardless of the pathway (if you use the right tests).From what can be gleaned from the literature as a whole, and a little common sense about how immunomodulation works, one can see that one would not want to suppress certain elements of the immune system in the presence of active pathogens in the gut, or impede the bodies efforts to restore normal flora after a bout of, say, broad spectrum antibiotics.So if one has surely ruled out active infection, but one has a history of symptom onset following, say, and infection treated with antibiotics when afterwards they developed so called IBS symptoms, it would be best to first use a broad-spectrum probiotic to see if oral tolerance can be restored, or at least know that you have taken steps to properly recolonize the gut with commensuls before beginning any experiment with immunomodulators.So that is preety much the context of my comments on that aspect. From everything else I have studied or been taught by immunologists and allergists who are really into this aspect of immunology, with those caveats a personal experiemt with IBSACOL at the doses suggested by the company is a very low risk proposition which does crate the possibility of some symptomatic relief. As KMOTTUS was fond of saying "your mileage may vary", of course, but KEL stay the course and see whether the cycles of symptom recurrence get further and further apart.Oh by the way the asthma response is no surprise based on what IBSACOL is...it SHOULD help your allergic asthma. I'll let it go at that.







Also keep in mind that loss of oral tolerance is a process...progressive...so restoration is the same thing. You should regain tolerance to those things to which you are but a little reactive, thus get some short term results, but regaining tolerance to things you have become highly intolerant of will take longer, if at all.BUT as this occurs the provoking dose gets higher and higher, so the symptom cycles get longer and longer apart. Now at some point it may stabilize and there is your maximum therapeutic response. In others complete remission may occur. In some, they will not respond tio this form of immunomodulation because their particular dysfunction is not effected by these LCFA. Also in some the effect may be transient, much like tachyphylaxis from other forms of immunomodulators. You just don't know going in as the whole science of understanding non-allergic immunologic aberrations like oral tolerance dysfunction is in its infancy.Just like my keyboarding still is!







MNL


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

> quote: BUT as this occurs, the provoking dose gets higher and higher; so the symptom cycles get longer and longer apart. Now at some point it may stabilize and there is your maximum therapeutic response. In others complete remission may occur. ........ *Also in some the effect may be transient, much like tachyphylaxis from other forms of immunomodulators.* You just don't know going in as the whole science of understanding non-allergic immunologic aberrations like oral tolerance dysfunction is in its infancy.


The sentence that I "bolded" is the key for me. I am literally on my knees praying to a God that I am not even sure exists --that I am not in this group of people.I will be about as crushed and defeated as they come if Ibsacol has a transient or diminishing effect on me.I won't be able to take it. The reason is that for the first time in a couple of decades I am feeling okay. The last 5 or so years I have been so incredibly ill that I just wanted to die. My nervous system got so screwed up that i was losing the ability to speak. It was like I had either Parkinson's or MS. ...tremors, shakes, highly disturbed cognition...on and on.However, over the last several months (especially during my ibsacol periods) I am experiencing what it is like to be normal and relatively symptom free. When I have normal bowel function I feel basically normal all over. However, when that breaks down then I get symptoms all over the rest of my body. It is horrible and i can't take it any longer --- especially after having a taste of the good life.I feel like I am cursed and that there is no hope even though I am better. I just have this nagging feeling that things will crash --- that they will not hold out ---- that whatever I suffer from is lying in wait just holding off until it can figure out another way to throw my body into a state of chaos. It is the severe nervous symptoms that go along with my bowel dysfunction that i can not take.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

I took 8 of my 16 daily Ibsacols over a 90 minute period and I got feverish again. i am not complaining because for the most part I have been very cold the last 20 years.*******************************************I took the mega-quantity of herbs last night along with raw crushed garlic and then this morning I experienced a very small amount of diarrhea. This is a VERY good sign. I hardly ever get D, but when I first started the herbal/garlic program I got diarrhea. Then I would always get relief.Around 12:30pm I had another very large, well formed movement. This is excellent news because this has been the source of all my problems. If I don't form it--then I feel ill and experience all kinds of symptoms.I have not passed a single amount of gas so far today. That usually happens during the evening anyway. I have a strong feeling that I will have minimal gas tonight due to the herbal treatment. That is how it always seems to work.***********************************************Here is the herbal combination:1.pau d'arco-- 3 to 4 capsules2. black walnut (in case of parasites)-- 3 to 4 capsules3. oregon grape root or golden seal (berberine)-- 3 to 4 cap4. olive leaf extract-- Solaray 250 mg, 17% oleuropien 42mg --very potent-- 4 capsules5. cloves -- 3 capsules6. citricidex --grape fruit seed extract--5 tablets (extremely potent herb)7. GSE (grapefruit seed extract--drops) 15 - 18 drops in an empty gelatin cap8. wormwood complex or wormwood herb-- 3 capsules (this is in case of parasites)9. oil of oregano-- 5-6 (150mg) gel caps10. elderberry -- 3 caps (anti-viral) (just in case)11. Garlic -- raw, crushed 1 to 3 cloves.12. coconut oil (Spectrum)-- I am cooking with this more and more. It contains lauric, capryllic, capric, and caproic acid. Very powerful against yeast. Also, very easy for the body to use as a fuel (MCT --no enzymes needed for breakdown)Some of these herbs may be unnecessary such as the parasitic herbs or the elderberry. Also, only one grapefruit seed product is needed. I tend to go overboard. i believe that a synergistic combination is better than focusing on just a few herbs (??????????).As far as the herbs go, I really do not know what I am doing but I know that my method has helped to control gas and other symptoms. I wish I did not have to do anything because even herbs can cause problems. However, it appears I have no choice. I have been told that herbs like pau d'arco need to be simmered for as long as 20 minutes to be effective (I compromise by doing it for 4-5 minutes)I do it every other day because every day seems excessive. Eventually I will go to every 3rd day and so on. I went 7 days without them and the gas returned and then the gas *AND* ODOR returned.


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

Yo Kel.... _______________________________________"I feel like I am cursed and that there is no hope even though I am better. I just have this nagging feeling that things will crash --- that they will not hold out ---- that whatever I suffer from is lying in wait just holding off until it can figure out another way to throw my body into a state of chaos. " _________________________________________NOW you are intio Erics territory...you need to deal with this apsect of the condition as well ....we are tlking self-fulfilling prophecies, thats all, and I doubt that you have time or access to behaviroal therapy to alter this paradigm...do you have a copy of Dr. Weinstcocks Stress Reduction CD? The patients we have given to have been very please with the benefits wghen they use it consistently. I assume their website is still up...have not been there for a while (get the CD's from them by the case LOL direct ordered).Its a cheap way and pleasant way to reduce the anxiety you experience...part of which is learned behavior part of which is amplified by certain mediators which may be released into your blood stream...its sort of a closed-loop-amplification system.Keep intrack but I do recommend you try this or Mike Mahoneys HT tapes or CD. OR if you feel more conmforatble about CBT see your doctor for a referral. Adding this to your program will make it all work better....this is alwsys a point I stress...integrative therapy.Hang in there.MNL


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## dianne (Jan 16, 2000)

Hey Mike !! Missed you for a long time. Thanks for your response here -- always so elegantly put, if I may say so! Kel ..


> quote: took 8 of my 16 daily Ibsacols over a 90 minute period and I got feverish again. i am not complaining because for the most part I have been very cold the last 20 years.


Why are you taking so many so close together ?? Not necessary, really ! Best you do them as we suggest -- please. There is a need for a little patience in this process; give it time to work.It will take up to two months to really settle and be stable for you. There are almost no reports of Ibsacol failing if it is taken properly as suggested once it has started working -- and Mike's idea of getting support for that aspect of your health is a great one.Also, that is a great slew of herbs you are taking. For what it's worth, I would suggest you lower the doses on some of them quite soon as it could be more gentle on your body.They are wonderful remedies, each one of them and I think your choices are excellent -- but maybe too many all at once ??I want to comment on your thoughts about Pikey and JLYnus. The reason they popped up so clearly just after Lotronex was withdrawn was because they were looking for something to replace their Lotronex.JLynus would laugh her head off at your thought she was a "plant"! She was so disbelieving of her success; even six weeks in she was still sceptical. Like you, she works in the medical world. But now she has been healthly and happily on her Ibsacol ever since. Pikey likewise ! She would laugh too ! If you email me privately, I am happy to try to put you in contact with them so you can share stories. (Actually, I think Pikey has posted her address here several times for people.)Couple of thoughts -- I don't know anyone who can eat black beans without some gas ! Also, I wonder if you chew your food slowly and thoroughly ? Such a simple thing, but I always forget and have to remind myself.Be patient if you can; please take it only as we suggest and I think all can be well for you. Please feel free to email me at anytime.Kind thoughts ...DianneFor the record, I am a director of the New Zealand company that developed and produces Ibsacol.


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

Hey Dianne!So how's tricks down there in NZ? Keeping you busy?PSHow much of the scenery that Gandalf keeps chewing in those movies is "the real NZ" and how much is computer generated?







MNL


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

It's noon and more GOOD news!first some not so good news. I still had gas last night but the odor was substantially reduced. The gas was cut by at least half over monday night.Therefore, I am expecting to be back to my extremely low gas levels by tonight or tomorrow due to the re-introduction of the herbs.D.the herbs may be large in quantity but i don't know what else to do??????? I am fighting this thing blind because doctors don't have a clue. However, at least i can say that it has worked flawlessly over the last several months concerning gas and odor. ....but i won't trumpet any success yet because the herbs may end up causing a problem or they may give out. I took the 8 Ibsacol over a 90 minute period this way...... 4 at 1:30pm and 4 at 3 pmI did so because I wanted to eat at 3:30pm and then I would have had to wait till maybe 6pm to take my 3rd dose.....but i wanted to take my third dose before my main meal. No harm done.... the warm feeling was a nice feeling since I used to always be very cold. It gives me further proof that I am healing. My brain is sharp again most of the day compared to how it used to be. I still have a lot of fatigue after eating though.here is the good news........ I had normal bowel function again today. I think that is 7 days in a row, and the only blip was when i ate the avocado (the avocado gave me a horrible brain fog, and that is proof that things were messed up and my stool proved it.)i still have my fingers crossed that i can maintain this because nothing else has come close to giving me this type of relief. The one exception was after the antifungals but that was kind of touch and go -- difficult to explain so i won't.dianne, I am glad that you said that you have not seen failures so long as the patient follows directions. that gives me more confidence.Also, I think my anxiety over MNL's statement that there could be tachyphylaxis (sp) is well justified. Imagine if the entire quality of your life has been severely impacted by some dreaded curse like IBS, and all of a sudden you discover some method to make it go away........ it only makes sense that the thought that maybe it will disappear is enough to cause serious alarm in anyone. Especially me.....I must solve this nightmare and put it to rest forever.


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## ohnometo (Sep 20, 2001)

KelWho knows maybe you can just end up taking the ibsacol nothing else ...Wouldn't that be great







Will you still get the same effect for it if you are taking all the other herbs ? You will find your answer dont give up


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

quick question (but don't answer if you think jeff will move this thread--- it is not that critical of a question)I usually drink at least 64 ounces of water per day, but why is it so important to do this? ....other than the usual answers which i already know.Does it have to do with anything that the public is not already aware of....or is it just a simple matter of helping the body detox all cells and make elimination more successful.Is it just good common sense or is due to some other mysterious interaction ( maybe it makes the Ibsacol more bioavailable??????)edithnometo......do you take the product because of your intolerances? or are you akay just by avoiding chemicals and foods?


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

p.s. Dianne, the beauty of my herbal and garlic cure is that I have repeatedly (countless number of days) passed only minimal amounts of gas no matter what type of bean (or the amount) I ate.However, if i ate pinto beans or certain other beans I would get the horrible symptoms of no stool formation ,no peristalsis, nervous symptoms, sinus, asthma --- many others, but very little gas and no odor.I don't understand it......it is either wiping out sulfur producing bacteria plus other bacteria or it is wiping out some parasitic organism, but whatever it is it returns.I am stumped.


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## dianne (Jan 16, 2000)

Hi Kel ...Sounds like it's going well for you -- practice that patience !!Are you taking all those herbs every day or just occasionally ?Re the water -- if you are not properly hydrated, you will most likely experience a headache. So few of us are correctly hydrated and this is the only supposed *side effect* that is mentioned often with Ibsacol -- and it's not a side effect, more just a result of not drinking sufficient water. Have you thought about doing Mike's LEAP programme ? It might help you with some of the specifics of your trigger foods. Actually, I think Ibsacol along with Mike's programme is one of the best treatments available. Covers all the bases and even some that others haven't even thought about yet ! The tachyphlaxis Mike mentions has occurred only once in our five years -- so it is a possibility, but so very far from being a probability. I don't think you should be worrying about that.I think keep doing as you are right now; avoid all your known triggers; don't take risks with food you are unsure about; be really diligent with your Ibsacol; don't run the risk of running out whatever you do at this stage; smile more often !! I think it is all sounding postive.Now Mike ! Most of the scenery is genuine ! Amazing beauty indeed .. wish I could say the talking trees were real -- that would be fun ! Love that Gandalf ! I have friends who have been working on the last re-shoots for the film, playing ugly, very ugly Auks -- but word on the beaches is the final film is the finest yet ! Won't be long now ...







kind thoughts to you all ...dianneFor the record, I am a director of the New Zealand company that developed and produces Ibsacol


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

So far i am still amazed by this stuff. My asthma has without question been knocked into remission along with my bowel problems. However, my sinuses are still about as inflamed as can be. My sinuses will experience remission but only if I stay in my air conditioned house for long periods of time.I am thinking that there is a different mechanism of action that causes my sinuses to inflame verse my bronchial tubes to tighten. Maybe it is histamine that is affecting my sinuses but not my bronchial tubes.It is 8:45pm and very little gas passed today. however I did not eat today till 4pm. Therefore, it may still come, but I think the herbs took care of the gas and odor again. i took the herbs at noon today.My usual schedule for the herbs and garlic is every other day. I could probably go every 4th or 5th day because it seems to keep things under control for 5 or 6 days.I guess I am feeling a lot more confidant based on your claim that only one person has failed. However, I would be interested in hearing what the results are from MNL's practice. However, accurate results are hard to obtain because of patient noncompliance and patient dropout.Therefore, I have no choice but to wait and see.


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## dianne (Jan 16, 2000)

Hi kel ... just to confirm and clarify what I meant -- I said only one case of tachyphlaxis had been reported.Ibsacol does not work for everyone, mainly because so many sub-sets of symptoms all are lumped under the term "IBS" .. see Mike's post above. But once Ibsacol is working, as it clearly seems to be for you, it has not failed if it is taken correctly. Hear from you soon ...Dianne


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

it is noon and so far I have had 2 bouts of moderate diarrhea. This is not necessarily bad news though.Yesterday, I took the same herbal formula as Monday which is the same as usual. And that gave me a small headache that lasted a good deal of the day. This is actually a good sign because i never get headaches and when I do it is because my mind is either active or there is good blood flow to it. normally the status quo is poor circulation and dizzyness.The entire day I felt really good. In fact it was one of my better days in years (I have been very sick the last 5 years). It is amazing how great i am feeling especially when I have normal bowel function. When that happens i feel normal for the first time ever. Even before I had IBS, I always felt a little "off".However, I was out most of the day so i did not know what to eat, but i went to the store and bought 2 small baby food jars of squash and some canned herring (reese's which is a high quality kind).I believe that the diarrhea is from the canned herring. I try hard to stay away from fish because it has caused some severe problems in the past. All I can say is that it can be near impossible to get a handle on these food intolerance issues while trying to lead a normal life.the good news is that prior to the Ibsacol I would not have had diarrhea. Instead, my bowel function would have just ground to a halt. Then the stool just stays inside of me and i get no good bacterial activity which increaes stool size and probably promotes peristalsis.I will see tonight if i have stool function and if it returns to normal like it did after the avocado. i ate mung beans when I got home around 7:30pm so it will take a while for that to process.still happy. asthma is gone, but sinus tissue is very inflamed this morning. i can not figure that one out.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

Yesterday after 2 bouts of D, I was able to normalize (somewhat) at 1pm. I passed a pile of mush at that point (sorry people for being so graphic). However, the mush is a good sign because there was volume and bulk to it.Today at 10:45am i was completely back to normal. Conclusion..... the ibsacol continues to work even if I eat a known trigger --the setback is only minimal as compared to how i used to be.very happy so far.I read something last night on CMO. It was the best explanation so far as to what might be happening. It was claimed that a certain T cell (????) was being re-programmed. However, that would explain why CMO people claim that only a month or 2 of the product will solve the problem (with maybe a yearly tuneup). {note: CMO is for RA rheumatoid arthritis and other joint problems} But Ibsacol needs to be taken for life.... so maybe the functioning is slightly different....had doctors appointment on wednesday. he seemed highly interested in the ibsacol. i took it in and showed him. he took notes on it and read the label very carefully. I thought he would be skeptical of a personal testimony but he wasn't. i told him of CMO and how the 2 products were closely related and when I mentioned CMO he actually was able to give me the full chemical name --cetyl myristioleate.he knows what he is doing.i told him that the allergies were still out of control and his recommendation was not some drug but quercetin and nettle (stinging nettle). he said that it will help keep the mast cells under control. I took it wed, thurs and today. So far so good.I am almost certain that yeast has played a role in my immune system nearly completely collapsing. i have had every sign and symptom of it.I also believe that lost oral tolerance was probably the originating cause of everything. Cow's milk is probably the culprit. This is what the doctors had my mother feed me from day one. I was told that i was highly allergic to it and was hospitalized due to rapidly declining weight. This is probably where my immune system was damaged.Once again, screwed over by doctors. Forget Mother Nature everyone--trust your brilliant doctor.


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## ohnometo (Sep 20, 2001)

Kel







Stop eating those knowen triggers







All these little setbacks add up..QUOTE*********************Conclusion..... the ibsacol continues to work even if I eat a known trigger --the setback is only minimal as compared to how i used to be.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

I have run into a little hitch. Saturday night I had a glass of wine and I knew I should not have but I did anyway. Sunday was not a good day at all and even Monday I was affected.Yesterday (tuesday), things started to normalize somewhat. I had "bulk" to my stool but there was no peristalsis at all so I had to use an enema.I will find out today if things are back to "good".I was out of town for a couple of days. I saw an electrodermal ND practioner. I was highly skeptical and I still am skeptical but there were a couple of things that she revealed to me that she could not have known otherwise. She told me that i was very low in sodium. My doctor told me the same thing and was even a little concerned. I eat a lot of salt but i don't seem to retain it for some reason. I also took approximately 30 supplements and food items so she could "test" them. These practioners claim that they can use an impedance device (capacitor and ohm type device) to test for conflicts between a patient and the test sample.I was highly skeptical of these claims but there is an herb that I took that causes extreme inflammation of my tissues especially my mouth. I did not reveal this to her. In fact, I had the herb in a large basket with several others and I did not even watch which ones she was pulling out of the basket. When she came to the astragulus the needle on the meter swung far to the right and at that point she claimed, "this one is very bad for you". When I looked up and saw that it was the astragulus, I nearly fell out of the chair. That's an exageration but at that point I knew that there is definitely something to this type of testing.I had uncovered some research that even independant researchers have shown that the results are duplicable. The tests were double blinded and different practioners did the testing and received identical results.Apparantly all matter and life form emits a frequency or energy level or a range of energy. I do not completely understand it though, but very sensitive electronic equipment can pick it up.This all ties into applied kineseology and muscle testing. Quite a few of the substances tested bad for me but the astragulus was by far the worst, this herb caused a severe swelling of my mouth tissues. My lip looked like it was going to explode.I am still skeptical of this type of treatment. When she had my wrists, ankles, and head strapped to a different electronic/computerized device, she claimed that I had parasites. she also claimed that I was very low on essential fatty acids despite the fact that I supplement heavily with fish oil and borage oil for GLA. This is also when she claimed that I was low on sodium.She could be a very good con artist but some things have me highly convinced that there is something to this method --especially the astragulus demonstration.I guess this is what energy medicine is all about. It is much more popular in Europe than in Canada and the US.She claims that parasites are more of a symptom than a cause of problems, and that once the body is in balance then the body will be better able to eliminate and get rid of the parasites. Although she does believe in using various treatments to rid the self of parasites.She also made the highly suspect claim that I was probably harmed by the DPT vaccine. I do not know what to make of this. I am very skeptical but I have done some reading and this vaccine does seem to carry some degree of risk. Probably more so than other vaccines.I have nothing to lose but money and a little pride if this ND is a fraud. However, if she is correct then i have everything to gain. Plus, if it does not work then I have just ruled out one more thing and I will have learned quite a bit. But, if it does work then I will be much better off and the critics will still be either sick or ignorant.As of right now, my belief in Ibsacol as a long term solution is a little shaky. I think that it may be working to overcome some "other" problem. I need to discover what these other problems are if I want long term success.


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## LDanna (Apr 13, 1999)

Last year I was taking Ibsacol four about three months with pretty good reults, but then ran into a stressful patch both at work and in my personal life and my sypmtoms returned. To be fair, I had reduced the dosage because I was doing well and then I couldn't afford to lose any more days off work so I resorted to Immodium and, eventually L-Glutamine which always stops the D for me.So, now I'm going to give Ibsacol another shot and plan on keeping myself at the original loading dose for as long as seems absolutely necessary...that is, if it works again for me.Problem is, I'm going away on vacation for the next four days and really need the D to stop, so I will probably have to resort to a few Immodiums during this time. Which is too bad as it won't give me an accurate idea of how the Ibasacol is doing, but I have no intention of throwing a perfectly good (and expensive) getaway down the drain because my IBS is acting up.I am not taking the glutamine or anything else except two Primal Defense tabs and, of course, calcium. So, when I should be able to evaluate the Ibsacol properly starting next week.It always helps to have a few people reporting their results on any product.


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## dianne (Jan 16, 2000)

Hi Kel -- the alcohol would have done it, I'm sorry to say.Our instructions suggest very clearly you avoid alcohol for at least the first six weeks. Reason is this -- the alcohol causes the available level of fatty acids in the bloodstream to burn out more quickly. We advise people later, after their loading dose, to take a couple of extra capsules first if they know they are going to be consuming alcohol.Really, you have to be very diligent in these first weeks, especially when it seems there are other odd symptoms going on for you. ( Also, if you are adding other fatty acids in to your supplements, please take them away from your Ibsacol for the best assimilation of all of them.)I've thought a lot about your herbal combinations. Some of them would be better taken in lower dose on a steady daily basis, rather than your huge dose every four or five days. Certainly the citricide and olive leaf would be better taken that way and offer you better 'protection'without allowing a downtime for whatever ever it is to develop again before the next huge dose. Let me know if you'd like me to say more.LDanna -- please let me know if you need any help when you try again. I can only say again Ibsacol does not 'stop' working unless there is some human compromise component -- and as you say, you think you reduced the dose too much too quickly.Please let me know if I can help. You all deservesome lasting relief. KInd thoughtsDianne


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## tallpaul (Jul 22, 1999)

dianne, I just got mine tonight. I just re-read the directions and I don't see any mention of alcohol avoidance for the first six weeks. I do see the instruction to avoid it one hour prior to and one hour after. I guess I should avoid it anyway for the next few weeks anyhow, huh? Just thought I would let you know. If it is that important than maybe it should be added to the instructions.


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## dianne (Jan 16, 2000)

Hi Tallpaul -- hope you do very well with it.The advice is there, probably page 3 for you, under Instructions, point #4. Thanks for pointing it out -- we will stress it more clearly.Please let me know if you need any extra help ...kind thoughtsdianne


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## Poor Boy (Feb 13, 2003)

Keep The INFO coming Kel it is very informative, and it parallels my own situation, and treatments.....I just started Ibsacol with my anti Candida and other anti fungal regimen.....seems to be a turtles pace, but hopefully for us it is in the right direction...Peace


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

" I guess I should avoid it anyway for the next few weeks anyhow, huh? "Dianne can correct me from the company experience if I am wrong but my impression is that the issue with alcohol is perhaps related to the mucosal repsonse to it (blood vessel dilation, fluid shift and mucosal swelling) as this may somehow impact absorption of the LCFA...??Just venturing a guess....while passing through...







ByeMNL


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

> quote: I've thought a lot about your herbal combinations. Some of them would be better taken in lower dose on a steady daily basis, rather than your huge dose every four or five days. Certainly the citricide and olive leaf would be better taken that way and offer you better 'protection'without allowing a downtime for whatever ever it is to develop again before the next huge dose. Let me know if you'd like me to say more.


Very helpful!!!I will take any advice from anyone --except from eric or flux. Eric has a low opinion of Ibsacol; however, that is because it does not "fit" his model of IBS. To me-- he is useless.Things are complicated right now. The ND rejected half of my herbs as troublesome. the skeptics may laugh at this but there is definitely something to her methods ---I'll leave it at that. I have an appointment with another ND who does the same testing. I think that similar results will be forthcoming. i will post the results next wednesday.I think I will follow your advice and try an every day approach at lower levels. (there is definitely something (microorganism) inside of me that needs to be contained by these herbs and garlic.) I have not been very good lately (since saturday). However, there is still some bulk to my stool and normally that is not the case. Therefore, the Ibsacol is still doing something, but I have obviously eaten foods that have seriously pushed its capabilities.My problem is that I am a severe reactor to literally dozens and dozens of foods. My biggest triggers (hypersensitivity) seems to be fungus/yeast. If my food contains fungus then I suffer greatly. It is hard to eliminate fungus because it is so common in the food supply. I do best on legumes and legumes have far less fungus than grain but they can still contain large quantities if stored incorrectly.I think that my problems of the last few days have centered around a couple of beans that are relatively new to my diet-- cranberry beans and anasazi beans. My elisa test has a positive reading for pinto beans, and pinto beans cause a lot of symptoms. The cranberry beans look almost identical to the pinto beans, so maybe they are very closely related. the anasazi beans create a large quantity of "goo" after prolonged cooking. It seems that I do poorly on any type of food that creates a "goo". By "goo" I mean a thick gooey paste like oats. The theory is that type "O" blood persons do better with foods that are very non-sticky. lectins are sticky and type "O's" are instructed to avoid all lectins and all sticky food. True??? I don't know.Anyway, I am in hell because I want this nightmare to be over and instead it is a fierce battle. You would not believe the nightmare I went through trying to order Emu online. I need another source of protein since i lost bison so I thought i would try Emu. It had to be overnighted due to the heat. Plus, I ran into several other logistical problems. Therefore no Emu.Today I became violently ill after taking a large dose of bentonite. I was warned that it is a very aggressive detoxifier but I did not believe it would impact me that way. I was wrong. I shook all day today until around 7pm when a very large quantity of slime came out of me. It had to be the bentonite plus toxins because after about 15 to 30 minutes all the shaking stopped.This whole thing with essential fatty acids concerns me very much. I know how important they are to the correct functioning of prostaglandins and other cellular functioning such as cell wall permeability. ---I have been supplementing heavily for a long time but this ND (is she a quack???) told me that I am very low on essential fatty acids. If she is correct (and I am skeptical) then it is possible that i might suffer from an inborn error in fatty acid metabolism. Another possible explanation is that since I am very reactive to a number of foods then maybe my body has an extremely high need for EFA's. This could explain why I may be low and it also COULD EXPLAIN WHY IBSACOL HELPS ME. Ibsacol is similar to EFA's but much more powerful and maybe they bypass something or another that is causing a malfunction with my EFA's.I have no choice but to keep using the Ibsacol. it is the only thing that has given me any degree of "normalcy".


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

> quote: the alcohol would have done it, I'm sorry to say


I agree. I remember reading the warning on alcohol but I guess i slipped. I should have been more diligent. I have only myself to blame. This really sucks. I have been so incredibly strict for such a long period of time and yet one little mistake and I suffer greatly from it.I guess it all comes down to how bad I want to get better.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

> quote: Oh by the way the asthma response is no surprise based on what IBSACOL is...it SHOULD help your allergic asthma. I'll let it go at that.


Yes!!! My asthma is still very much under control. I know it is the Ibsacol. However, my sinuses continue to become either inflammed without fluid or inflammed with fluid. I am not sure which.I imagine this is the case due to a lack of smooth muscle tissue. Therefore the Ibsacol would probably not function the samw way. I really do not know what is happening.3 weeks ago i was having severe allergic reactions (histamine type). i told my "good" doctor about it and he recommended nettle and quercetin. Sure enough it worked like a charm. It seems that quercetin and stinging nettle or nettle are very effective at controlling mast cells (both histamine release and other proinflammatory mediator release)i say.... "my 'good' doctor"..... because he is a preventative medicine doctor. My bad doctor is my HMO insurance doctor. The bad doctor is like the other 98% of bad doctors. they just want to load you up with more drugs.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

No good data to post today. I have been engaged in some detox methods involving BENTONITE, flax seeds, and even a few coffee enemas.I became severely ill a few hours after drinking a large quantity of bentonite. I literally shook for half the day. I settled down considerably after a huge gob of slime came out of me. that was yesterday. i think the same thing happened 2 days ago.today, the detox resulted in an odor that smelled like dead fish. ---and i thought i was clean since i hardly ever have to wear deodorant.i am seriously wondering if my liver is messed up/ toxic due to all the allergies that i suffer from. I take silymarin which is suppossed to be excellent as a rejuvenator.I think in the future I am going to make it a permanent part of my regimen -- very small amount of bentonite and flax seeds (or pectin) to add a bulking agent to my intestines.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

Well, today was kind of strange. No stool was passed today. that is a rarity for me. the majority of the last 16 days has resulted in formed stool --but not today. that is understandable considering that i am taking the bentonite.dianne mentions that i need to stay away from known triggers. That makes sense but the problem is that even the few remaining safe foods are skating on thin ice. things are not easy --very complicated situation. i guess i have no choice but to try my hardest to only stick with the foods that give me the best chance of remaining symptom free. However, i am even starting to question the squash. the last 2 times I ate it -- I noticed something happening. This is not good.


> quote:The tachyphlaxis Mike mentions has occurred only once in our five years -- so it is a possibility, but so very far from being a probability. I don't think you should be worrying about that.


I hope you are right.


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

dianne, I am interested in knowing if Ibsacol will help gluten sensitivity or Celiac. I believe it works on the immune system and this is the lates info I have about Celiac"This discovery allows us to shift the emphasis from the gut as the sole protagonist in CD and to adopt Marsh's definition of gluten sensitivity as "a state of heightened immunological responsiveness to ingested gluten in genetically susceptible individuals"fromIs intestinal biopsy always needed for diagnosis of celiac disease?


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

Well, a few days ago I had another huge bowl of black beans and I experienced only about 20% of the gas that I experienced when I was off my herbal concoction. So, that proves that I have something living inside of me that likes to cause a lot of problems. However, I am far from convinced that that is the source of my problems. ....but then again maybe intestinal dysbiosis is behind the bulk of my problems (??????)Anyway, i finally am back to normal. I had a little stretch there where things were very rough.I still need to sort it out so I won't comment.However, I have been taking the bentonite and even flax seeds and the first 3 days I got very sick.Even now, (day 5 of bentonite) the stuff coming out of me smells like a cross between dead fish and a scummy lake!!!! It is unbelievable.I took the vermox last thursday. I wonder if i killed off a bunch a protozoa or something else and that is why I have the odor. the odor could just be toxins that are being pulled from my body.I am still diligent in taking the Ibsacol and it has helped more than anything else so far.


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## jimmye (Nov 13, 2001)

Diane, I received and began taking ibsacol last week. Your instructions in an email were to start at 2 capsules 3x/da. I didn't mention to you that I am gluten intolerant. I told you that constipation and pain were my primary symptoms. Bonnie I'm so glad you asked the question earlier can't believe I forgot to mention it. Jimmye


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

Well, right now I am about as HAPPY as can be. I am back to normal again. *AND I WAS NEVER NORMAL.* I had a little stretch where things looked like they were collapsing. I don't know exactly what happened. My friend gave me a product called Alpha Greens and i started taking it last week. It has alfalfa in it and that is a food that caused a lot of problems in the past. I read the ingredients but i missed that one. The rest of it contains just dried grass juice. However, i also ate blackeyed peas and this food is a definite suspicious food (it may be okay but it may not be okay). However, the blackeyed peas looked kind of shriveled and very dried out ---not too healthy-- in the bag. I am thinking that they could have been dried out incorrectly and been exposed to fungal growth (????????)Also, the bentonite colon detox caused an extreme stirring up of problems. It was unbelievable how sick i got about 4 to 8 hours after taking it.Saturday, I screwed up on my strict diet (I used to be so 100% incredibly strict), but I did not suffer bowel wise. I took extra Ibsacol after eating some of my no no foods.Today around noon I had very large, bulky stool. This is something that I have been striving for for a long time. It still contained a tad too much mucous but overall it was excellent.....and I am feeling pretty good overall right now!!!Thank you Ibsacol!!! Just please don't give out on me!


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

Another normal day. This is really amazing. YES, I am a responder!!! There is simply no other explanation. I have literally tried about 50 different methods and they have all pretty much failed. Most gave no relief whatsoever.However, I still believe that I needed to be on the antifungals for the length of time that i was on them. The best indication for that is the fact that ever since around the 3rd or 4th week my circulation has been excellent. other symptoms cleared up but then they would bounce around.i am really happy, but i still have me fingers crossed.Right now I have brain fog. I ate about a cup of pecans for breakfast. I knew i should not have eaten them but I was hungry.My allergist gave me a list of foods that I should not eat because of cross tolerances to my airborn allergens. pecans were on the list, but I knew this even before being told just by tracking symptoms.therefore, with me it goes beyond getting fogged up due to the exotoxins and mycotoxins of bacteria/fungus.i should be okay in a few hours. My reactions are not lasting as long as they did prior to Ibsacol or when i was really ill. however, i need to quit being sloppy and toe the line.


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## dianne (Jan 16, 2000)

Hi Kel ..


> quote: I think I will follow your advice and try an every day approach at lower levels. (there is definitely something (microorganism) inside of me that needs to be contained by these herbs and garlic.)


Is this your new regime ? And it seems to be working ? Please let me know and maybe I can help a little more for you. Certainly taking less over a sustained period of time of all your herbs would be much more stable for you.Bonniei and austin .. I'll be back to reply soon. ( Can't see the posts under this box to reply at present ... grrrrr, now where have they gone ???)kind thoughtsdianneFor the record, I am a director of the New Zealand company that developed and produces Ibsacol.


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## dianne (Jan 16, 2000)

Hi again Kel .. I've just re-read all your postings. I think this might help you -- do not add anything else to your body right now -- no new detox products, no trigger foods, no anything at all that you're not supposed to do. If you can just give the Ibsacol a clear run with your herbal regime, things could be excellent for you and you can stabilise a little more. Reading through your posts, you keep adding in something that knocks you very hard, like the bentonite, for example, then the Wormex (sp?), and the green food from your friend. STOP !!!! Nothing new now I think is best for you.







Hope you don't mind me commenting like this, but I do think you will have a better chance of good health right now if you don't stress your body further.







kind thoughtsdianne


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## dianne (Jan 16, 2000)

Hi bonniei and austin ...Strangely, we have not treated anyone specifically for celiac disease, but almost all the IBS sufferers who have been unable to tolerate wheat etc ( and therefore probably gluten) have been able to return it in to their diets after a few months on Ibsacol. Not all, but certainly most.If you'd like to email me directly on dicad###ihug.co.nz maybe we can look at a way to help each find more info re celiac disease.ThanksDianne


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Ok I'll email you, dianne. But not today. Probably tomorrow. I have to get dressed and ready for the UNC chat







Feeling unnecessarily nervous


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

> quote: but almost all the IBS sufferers who have been unable to tolerate wheat etc


That would be amazing. However, I have gone for a little over 10 years without eating wheat so i could go the rest of my life without a problem, but I would like to be able to eat rice again.This whole thing boggles my mind. I remember MNL stating that he was able to eat pizza once a week. I don't remember if he had a problem with the wheat, cheese, or tomatoes???I wish that the inventors of this product would write a book the same way that Jordan Rubin wrote a book about his illness and his recovery and the founding of his company -- Garden of Life (Primal Defense). (I heard that he came out of his Crohn's remission--not sure if it is true).I think a book would be interesting. I think that too many people are suffering and it would be nice if this product could reach others. I am so amazed by what this stuff is doing that I want to know more about it. I am wondering how the discoverer came about it. ....why it works.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

(I ate a large quantity of black beans yesterday and had only minimal to very mild odorless gas)Today was probably the best day that I have had since my first trial of Ibsacol a while back.My stool was perfectly formed. There was not a single disruption to the entire form. Also, for the first time in a while there was minimal mucous and minimal bowel tissue present.I am extremely ecstatic. I am still a little nervous about the whole thing though.Here is another very interesting piece of information. I felt extremely good last night from about 5pm on through the night. I felt unusually relaxed, calm, poised and everything else....I am becoming more and more convinced that the majority of my symptoms (nervous) are a direct result of the malfunctioning of my immune system that is located in the intestinal tract.When things break down as a result of hypersensitivity or even bacterial/fungal toxins then it is reflected all over my body.It would have been nice to see how ibsacol would have worked PRIOR to my extremely aggressive methods to "go after" fungus/bacteria/potential parasites. However, that is water over the dam.The antifungal treatment program gave me dramatic symptom reduction; however, I actually became MORE sensitive as a result of it. In other words, when I would eat something that had a high fungal content --- the effects were devastating.I think that possibly my immune system has been seriously screwed up by a fungal problem in addition to what dairy and wheat and other foods may have done to it. It is also very possible that genetics plays a strong role. I also think that the typical high-sugar, hish refined starch diet disrupted by colonic bacteria.


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## dianne (Jan 16, 2000)

Hi Kel .. it's all sounding very good for you. Can I please repeat what I said above -- take extra gentle care right now and introduce nothing new or surprising in to the mix. And please do not be tempted into trying any of your known triggers -- it could cause you chaos at this important turning point.Nothing you are reporting by way of benefits is really surprising to me, but I understand totally how surprising it might be for you ! So .. stay with what you know is fine, no more extra herbs or de-tox substances; be sure to drink enough water at all times.Am I right in thinking you have changed your herbs over to a lower dose daily regime ? I am really happy to read your post today -- let's take the care to keep you smiling !kind thoughtsDianneFor the record, I am a founding director of the New Zealand company that developed and produces Ibsacol.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

Dianne,sorry i missed 2 of your posts.


> quote: I think this might help you -- do not add anything else to your body right now -- no new detox products, no trigger foods, no anything at all that you're not supposed to do. If you can just give the Ibsacol a clear run with your herbal regime, things could be excellent for you and you can stabilise a little more.


trust me, I am not offended at all. I need all the info that i can get. plus the motivation is good for me --- god forbid should i get sloppy and start cutting my dose again. these things happen you know. people get careless and don't follow instructions (ME!!!!) or taper off.I will try my absolute hardest to not introduce anything else to my diet. I REALLY BELIEVE YOU WHEN YOU SAY THAT THIS IS THE CRITICAL STAGE!!!!! I think that possibly my immune system could be in the middle of a huge turnaround, and I don't want to mess it up this time.the herbal thing is kind of complicated and i hesitate to talk about it here because people might think of me as a bit off in left field.therefore all i will say is that a naturalpathic doctor "yanked" about half my herbs -- i can't take them any longer. also, i think the garlic is causing problems -- i went off of it for 3 days then i re-introduced it and my tongue swelled up. I can only imagine what it might have been doing to my intestines. but then again maybe it is safe ---- i do not know.thank you dianne!!!this whole thing is so unbelievable.p.s. i deeply suspect that i am having trouble with deer meat now. i still formed stool yesterday but there were a few problems. however, so long as i am forming stool then something is working.right now my only foods that are 100% safe are black beans and aduki beans. this concerns me. i think pumpkin is still okay, but some of my most violent reactions are due to pumpkin SEEDS. can't figure that one out.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:Remember it's not a drug, it's a food supplemen


Legally, that is.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

> quote:quote:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Remember it's not a drug, it's a food supplemen--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Legally, that is.


I would say that it is a "food with drug-like properties". -- kind of like alcohol. alcohol can be considered a food because it can be oxidized and provide calories but it has very strong drug-like properties (narcotic qualities).I think the same situation applies to ibsacol. It can be oxidized /burned but along the way it has drug-like properties (beneficial properties)....and i am very glad for that.(i guess it comes down to what constitutes a drug. some people would consider sucrose to have drug-like properties (extremely mild))(coffee and chocolate have drug-like properties)


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

Another normal day! excellent stool formation!!!However, i spent 7 1/2 hours in a car with a friend and I had bad cramps again. i have been relatively free of cramps for approx 9 months but when i lose the freedom to take a suppository which allows me to "go". then i guess cramps sneak back in. it hurt bad!!!I am thinking that dianne was alluding to the fact that ibsacol can slow things down a little which is why it may be very good for diarrhea people. (actually, prior to ibsacol things simply did not move at all and everything was very small in terms of volume --and that led to huge problems)I am in no way complaining but i need to be certain that things are going to move.I have a couple of possible methods that i may try to solve this little problem. But, i think i will wait because i am doing really great right now.So long as i am forming stool, then most of my symptoms are well under control. ...and i am happy.


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## tallpaul (Jul 22, 1999)

I have been on ibsacol for about a week and so far so good. Only one tummy ache for about half a day. This is still not totally out of character for me though, since I have good and bad weeks. I am probably going to order more. I think I need to give it about 3 months before I pass judgement on it's true effectiveness. I still don't feel that I can stop my other daily pills though (calcium, immodium).


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

Another perfect 10 day for me.Simply amazed!!!I am just simply amazed.My immune system is screwed up and this product is either fixing it or circumventing it.I am simply amazed. ----i am at a loss for words.However, I am not out of the woods yet because I had brain fog this morning and afternoon real bad. I ate bhutanese red rice. Rice is still a bad food i guess.I am also still polysymptomatic but at a much, much lower rate. Hopefully I will get better as my immune system is brought back into balance.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

I am actually laughing about this right now. I need to be careful though. i still do not feel lucky.i am laughing because I just experienced my 2nd day in a row of peristalsis. (I did not mention it yesterday but yesterday and today there was no need for a suppository) (everything just moved and worked like it was supposed to.I can't believe it!!!Actually last night was my first time in 25 days that I forgot to take my last dose (4 capsules at night) (i take 4 in the morning and 4 in the afternoon)The only thing that I am experiencing right now is a bit of brain fog and my sinuses got congested for the first time in about 4 or 5 days.I am stunned at what is happening. I simply can not believe it. I am so happy that if eric or flux came in here and started ripping on me I would not even care. It is when i am suffering that they get to me.Now I just need to try and see if this problem (prostaglandins/ fatty acids/ immune function) is related to my other problems --- nervous system difficulties. My brain and nervous system is somewhat screwed up. It seems to be working better than before but I want it completely fixed.I want to get really good sleep at night and wake up feeling refreshed. I want the brain fog to completely go away -- for the most part it is dramatically down but rice screwed me up again.I am wondering if I suffer from some type of essential fatty acid metabolic disorder. this is why i wish that the doctor or scientist who invented this molecule to write a paper on it or explain exactly what is going on and why and what it is correcting.i can't stand not knowing exactly what was wrong with me. I also do want others to know about this. The ultimate would be if hundreds of people started to take it and approximately 50% improved as much as me. i think that IBS is a garbage can diagnosis and therefore some people do not have an immune system foulup like me.I want the stupid American and Canadian researchers to know about this!!!However, these clowns are more interested in there own pet theories and more interested in satisfying the drug companies who fund a lot of their research.Anyway, this is just too amazing.


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## LDanna (Apr 13, 1999)

Well, that's it for me. Two weeks on Ibsacol and my D is worse than ever. Whe I'd taken it last year, I must have been experiencing a placebo effect because none of my symptoms are responding this time around.I had stopped taking the L-Glutamine in order to give Ibsacol a fair chance but, as of yesterday, I've started taking it again and already feel better. At least I know the glutamine works on the D every time. I was hoping the Ibsacol would deal with the other symptoms of gas and bloating but hey, I'd rather end the D which is insupportable, than worry about a little bloat.Hopefully, when I'm done with Mike's tapes in a few weeks, I'll see more improvement all around, but I'm willing to keep up the glutamine if that's what it takes to keep me D-free.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

I guess these things are amazingly complicated. i wish that there would be some type of set criteria or rigorous screening that we could go through to determine if ibsacol would work. Some type of "marker" that would indicate a need for it. --like a measure or ratio of prostaglandins or something like that.Anyway, I was completely normal again today. Other than about 4 days when I mixed things up with bentonite, canned herring and a few other things I have been good for about 23 out of 27 days. prior to ibsacol i was never good and never had stool formation.ldanna i am glad glutamine works for you. suppossedly it fuels the immune system and provides the raw material for cell generation in the intestinal tract. I wonder if you would benefit from a lower dose of ibsacol or possibly there might be some other unexplained reason for unsatisfactory results. (???????)then again -- i am the first to admit that everyone is different and there are probably multiple causes for IBS.


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## LDanna (Apr 13, 1999)

Thanks for the suggestion, kel. I e-mailed Dianne about dosage adjustment days ago but have received no response. I have taken it upon myself to stop taking Ibsacol -- which, btw, was getting pretty complicated in terms of spacing out doses not to conflict with fiber supplements -- and get back on the glutamine train. I am very thankful that glutamine works for me, since Immodium does not.I am glad that Ibsacol is helping you and, yes, I agree that it would be great if enough were known about IBS to develop screening tests. Unfortunately, we've all just got to shift for ourselves until they do.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

today i was back to normal again but peristalsis was not there. i had to use a suppository but everything was very formed and mucus and bowel tissue was at a minimum.yesterday i thought that i had crashed because very little came out of me and I became alarmed. It seems that I am having trouble with deer meat which is what I ate the day before yesterday. Also, squash must be a low residue food. I don't think that my deer meat and squash meal (from monday) gives my colonic bacteria much to feed on.I need to stick to legumes and be very careful about meat in general.i am still experiencing nervous symptoms and i am hoping that it is mostly due to the mercury chelation that i am undergoing. i hope that mercury may be playing a role in my immune dysfunction. the doctor thinks it is a necessary procedure and my research is backing that up.if my intestines continue to operate normally then that will allow me to focus on my screwed up nervous system. It seems that a small amount of an SSRI helps me considerably (3 to 4 mg of prozac per day). (but it makes me tired)


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

Tomorrow marks the end of my first full month on this product --- Ibsacol.I remember how utterly hopeless that i was becoming. I thought that I would never be "normal", and now here i am 30 days later and it is happening. I still do not believe it. after suffering so greatly, for so long, to now experience remission --- this must be a dream.however, i just have this funny feeling that something is going to make everything cave in on me. i think this is somewhat normal for people to experience when they have experienced approximately 6,900 days in a row of gas, odor, cramps, severe pain, D, C, lack of peristalsis, lack of stool formation, and a host of other bodily symptoms due to a horribly performing gut.


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## LDanna (Apr 13, 1999)

kel -- Congratulations on feeling so much better. Don't worry about whether the product will keep working or not because I think you really do fall into that category of IBS sufferers whose immune system needs readjustment. Clearly this is what the Ibsacol is doing for you.I am happy to report that, after only three days back on L-glutamine, I had the first formed BM in over two weeks. This stuff works unbelievably fast, and I think I'll post again about it on the Diarrhea board as I really see no reason why anyone should endure endless, debilitating episodes of D if there is a natural, nutritional suppplement that makes life almost normal again.Good luck to us both, kel!


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

ldanna,your information is extremely important concerning glutamine. i am wondering if there could be a metabolic disorder that causes a foulup in the production of glutamine. Maybe your immune system receives a very nice jolt from the glutamine.this could prove that everyone is radically different and no single treatment will help everyone.it may just be a matter of some very expensive trial and error.the problem comes into being when a person needs multiple remedies to reverse their problem. then it gets tricky.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

I was near perfect today. Peristalsis was not there but everything else was great.I can't stress this enough --- I WAS NEVER GOOD!!!I had chronic symptoms. Out of 100 days, I was messed up 100 days.If this keeps up I am really going to start to think that I am in complete remission.


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## overitnow (Nov 25, 2001)

Hey Kel,This is what recovery is like. You don't walk through a door, you walk down a path. There is nothing you have posted inconsistant with what I have found. Every so often, s**t happens (I couldn't resist), and then it continues. Eventually, it's under control. Dare to believe.Mark


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## dianne (Jan 16, 2000)

Hi Kel and LDanna ..sorry to have been missing in action. I've been laid out with a terrible flu virus, knocked me for six. I'm not fully functional even now, but want to catch up.LDanna .. I'm giving some serious thought to your situation and will respond as quickly as I can. I'm happy the glutamine has helped so much in the meantime. Sadly, for many who had good results with Ibsacol first time round do not enjoy the same response when they have stopped it for several months. We always recommend a low maintenance dose, even if it's only two or three capsules a week. Anyway, I'll try to help if it's possible. ( Question: you hadn't been taking glutamine before you started on Ibsacol the first time ?) Kel -- broke your promise ! why are you inflicting extra things on your body like mercury chelation at this time ?? Please take it easy; get used to feeling better, let things stabilise for at least another month then I promise I will work one on one with you f necessary to help you further. But chelation like that is another form of detox -- please wait a bit longer.But all your news sounds good and that makes me very happy for you. Whatever you do, don't run out ! Changing your dose at this time because you have run out would be the worst thing you could possibly do.take care .. I'm going back to my bed to rid myself of this virus.dianne


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

Concerning the mercury chelation, i had started it in April and finished the first course in early June. I restarted 13 days ago because I need to finish the job. The first course removed all the lead which was very high. It also removed all the nickel which was so high that it was off the scale. however, it only dropped the mercury readings by 40%.I need to get it out because I think it is partly responsible for my nervous symptoms. it may also be causing some of the immune dysfunction --uncertain though.The bentonite seems to be working out better than I thought possible. The first few days caused a lot of sickness. However, as of the 6th day things are better than ever. i think that using clay to absorb toxins has to be beneficial?????I don't think the mercury chelation is causing digestive troubles but it is causing all kinds of nervous symptoms. but I think the shaking has stopped.I have been keeping detailed notes, so I was prepared to quickly remove anything in case I went into a tailspin.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:Concerning the mercury chelation, i had started it in April and finished the first course in early June. I restarted 13 days ago because I need to finish the job. The first course removed all the lead which was very high. It also removed all the nickel which was so high that it was off the scale. however, it only dropped the mercury readings by 40%.


So other people know..people do get chelation therapy. Preesumably, the therapists makes up the results to make it appear there is something there which isn't really or if it is there, it is in an amount that has no clinical signficance. In other words a bogus therapy for a non-existent problem.. Details at http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelate.../chelation.html


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## LFC1 (Apr 29, 2003)

Well, let's just say I never imagined my sinple little enquiry to have raised so much interest! Thanks everyone for your feedback, I really appreciate it. If it's okay with you guys, I'm gonna bump this up, which means for the first time I get a post with 100 responses.







Thanks again for your feedback!


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## LDanna (Apr 13, 1999)

Dianne -- Sorry to hear about your flu, and hope you feel much better soon.In answer to your question...no, I was not taking glutamine when I was first took Ibsacol last fall. Both times, I have given Ibsacol a wide berth and eliminated any other supplementation with the exception of soluble fiber. It is very odd that you report there's a failure rate among those who re-start Ibsacol after having success with it the first time. That would seem to warrant further investigation.In any case, I am going to stay with the glutamine because it is allowing me to function again which is very important in my job right now.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

> quote: Preesumably, the therapists makes up the results to make it appear there is something there which isn't really or if it is there, it is in an amount that has no clinical signficance


The medical doctor has all DMSA urine challenges sent to an independent lab. He also states from day 1 there is nothing they can do about genetics. But when heavy metals are removed the results can be very encouraging. The cost is reasonable --$75.00 for 25 pills that last 50 days, and at the rate I am proceeding I will need about 3 treatments.Chelation therapy is the only treatment available for children and adults who are exposed to such things as lead poisoning.


> quote: Mercury, lead, and cadmium cannot be metabolized by the body and, if accumulated, can cause toxic effects by interfering with various physiological functions.


This quote is from your article which substantiates the toxic effects of heavy metals.I do not know if this is my problem, but it is a low cost treatment so I have very little to lose and a whole lot to gain. Based upon how nervous and shaky I get on my treatment days, i would say that I may indeed be a mercury sensitive person.*************************************************Concerning Ibsacol, this afternoon I was perfect again. However, once again there was no peristalsis. I am not too concerned because my stool volume is completely normal and mucous and bowel tissue has decreased to a minimum.I am still nagged by other problems though. But they aren't GI related. This morning there was a lot of fatigue but it completely disappeared after moving my bowels. I quit taking the herbs and my gas is coming back. However, I am on a high legume diet so it may be normal.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

I am still normal. I quit taking the herbs again (maybe 7, 8 or 9 days ago). Gas seems to be under control --sort of. Thursday night i got real sick (nauseous) but i was still normal friday morning, but friday night I threw off 3 batches of diarrhea (and i was very fatigued the whole day). I am not complaining because for me diarrhea is a welcome sign. It means i am throwing something off of me.Saturday I was completely normal again. Saturday night I mixed up a batch of antifungal/bacterial/parasitic herbs and took them along with garlic. Things are a little strange this morning but I feel great.I think that I may still be suffering from the effects of a colon that does not have the correct bacteria in it. My CDSA from GSDLabs says that I have dysbiosis and I believe it. All I can do is continue with probiotics and the doctor said that healthy e. coli will replenish itself when I eat raw vegetables. I will have to start doing that soon. I gave up veggies after I started reacting to them with a severe brain fog. I am very confidant that i will either have a normal bowel movement tonight or the latest --tomorrow morning. When things go afoul they don't stay that way for very long.Prior to ibsacol I was screwed up permanently. I am actually feeling more joy in my life these days as my confidance grows.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

yesterday (monday), i was pretty good but no peristalsis. today was perfect but no peristalsis.no peristalsis just means that i have to use a suppository and then wait 15 to 30 minutes --not that big of a deal but i would still like to correct it.saturday I had a half of a drink and that is the 3rd time i screwed up like that. i now firmly believe that even as little as a half of a drink will screw things up for me. Something about alcohol causes a breakdown.


> quote: Things are a little strange this morning


I read my post from sunday and the alcohol (1/2 drink) perfectly explains why I wrote, "things are a little strange....". Well, I hope I finally got it through my thick head ---"NO ALCOHOL!!!"Could it be because it is a mycotoxin??????Anyway, i am back to normal, and i am finally starting to take this new state for granted. i am still excited but not like i was a few weeks ago.Although every morning it is still the first thing on my mind --"will i be normal, will i have peristalsis".I can't wait (or i hope) that soon i won't even think about it. I will be totally normal!!!!yesterday, i felt incredibly normal (brain-wise). i had to meet a few strangers --there was no avoiding it and I experienced extremely low levels of social phobia. I am starting to think that I am getting to the root cause of all my problems ---immune dysfunction which impacts my nervous system.dianne, if this is true then i think we have just discovered a cure for millions with psychiatric problems (who knows -- could be help for 15 -30% of the incorrectly treated mental patients out there). i will be famous for discovering this.I will write the book if you guys won't.actually, i am involved with several other treatment modalities such as mercury chelation, colon detox, liver detox, blue-green algae (which may hold up to its claims of "brain activation"--more time is needed to draw conclusions), dietary changes (no sugar), fatty acid (omega 3), pure water, vsl#3,....)however, without question ibsacol has delivered unmistakable results!!!!!!


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

Actually, i may not want to write the book. call me paranoid but i think that the drug companies are so powerful that they will seek to crush all information about this miracle molecule.They practically own Washington and their propaganda machine controls and thinks for the typical american doctor and his medical schools.I would not be surprised if they hire commandos to raid your plant. Okay, maybe that is a bit extreme. If anything, they would payoff the FDA and the Customs Office to seize all shipments.In that case i would be screwed. What is the shelf life of this stuff anyway? Would it be wise to buy an 18 month supply just in case? or does it have a high decomposition rate?


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## overitnow (Nov 25, 2001)

Quote:Although every morning it is still the first thing on my mind --"will i be normal, will i have peristalsis".I guarantee you that you will never look on the toilet in the same way you did before this started. 4 years later I still check it out every day for signs of change. (What ever happened to cosmic consciousness? This really is the lowest level of awareness.)Mark


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## jimmye (Nov 13, 2001)

Ok guys, I just ordered my second set of bottles of Ibsacol. I am fairly certain this product is helping me. Just wanted to pass that on and thank Kel for sharing as well as Mike and others. It has been encouraging, I am very glad I took the leap and ordered and am using Ibsacol. I still use zelnorm and domperidon(sp?) but I do think Ibsacol is probably going to cause me to be able to cut back to one zelnorm/da. Actually right now I'm doing quite well. I wonder if it will affect my gluten intolerance. I don't intend to add gluten to my diet but hopefully eventually I can expand my diet and not have so much pain when I make a tiny mistake. Cindy from Texas I recommend this as something you might want to try. Jimmye


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

Austin,it's good to have someone else around who may be having success with this product. It makes me feel less like a freak and it gives it some validation. I hope it continues for you.Today was kind of strange. I had perfectly formed stool but there was zero peristalsis once again. And this time it was a bit trickier to get things moving. Also, I felt kind of lousy today. I was definitely "off". brain dysfunction -- depression, nervousness.It was later in the day when I got home and finally decided to take a fleet enema and that got everything out of me. I am happy because everything was formed with above average volume, but I am perplexed over the lack of peristalsis. ...especially since today it was kind of extreme and when that happens I usually feel lousy all over -- fatigue, depression, nervousness.i think there were really only 2 days where I had perfect peristalsis. I need to examine my notes and see what i did or did not do on the days preceding those days. Someone suggested that neurontin could be part of the problem. I just took it a couple of days in a row --maybe that is it.I guess I can always rely on zelnorm if I absolutely have to --although I want to avoid all drugs.


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## nursey (Apr 17, 2002)

Basically been there, done that!! did nothing for me except give me aches and pains in my joints.Had no other effects, when I stopped taking it the pains went away!


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## pdb (Jun 28, 2001)

I'm so glad someone brought up the issue of aches and pains. I do think that Ibsacol helped me a little, but it really made my joints hurt - especially my knees and my hands. After I stopped taking it, the pain went away.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

Interesting. Aches and pains --not me. I am feeling luckier every day. First, because it works, and second because of no side effects --yet. however, I strongly suspect that there will be no side effects--for me. if anything I feel that in the future it may not hold up. But that is only so I am prepared in case it comes true.Dianne, I am wondering if the people who have aches and pains might be having them due to an autoimmune type of problem. I think your literature mentions something about Rheumatoid arthritis and if a person has this condition then the dose may need to be started at 1 capsule per day to make sure there is no flare up.This is all very interesting. If this causes joints to hurt in a very small percentage of the population then it gives further evidence that it really does give a strong stimulating effect to the immune system. who would have thought that a fatty acid ester could be so powerful and effective. Personally, I had very low expectations for it when i first bought it. What is even weirder is that it worked but i gave the full credit to Primal Defense (probiotic) and to my herbal/ garlic concoction. (the herbals did work because i had some success with them prior to the Ibsacol but it was only fleeting)


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## pdb (Jun 28, 2001)

About 6 months after I stopped taking Ibsacol, I was diagnosed with an autoimmune thyroid disorder, which may be why it made my joints hurt.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

I haven't posted in one week. I am still doing great!!!I have had a little diarrhea the past 5 days but it is very much a welcome sign. For years my colon was dead, so when I get a bout of diarrhea it is very short lived and I think it is just my body "throwing" things off.Yesterday i ate at a chinese buffet. I ate foods that I should not have eaten yet I am doing great today. This is simply amazing.I started taking high doses of vitamin C and the first 3 days it caused quite a bit of gas and trouble. But since the 4th day things have been very good. I think there is something to the "bowel tolerance" dose of Vitamin C. The literature states that the sicker you are the more you can tolerate. Mt top dose appears to be around 15 grams. I am keeping it at around 10.i stopped the mercury detox 6 days ago and as of 3 days ago i feel better than I can ever remember. I am not perfect but I think I am pretty close.I am baffled as to why I am recovering at such a rapid pace. My best guess would be the following:1. Ibsacol -- this product has been a Godsend!!!!! i am convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that it is correcting my dysfunctional immune system.2. Mercury detox -- i am less certain about this but I highly suspect that it is making a difference. I just don't know how much.3. Anti-fungal drug therapy -- I know for a fact that this has helped me immensely. My white coated tongue is gone for good and I can once again eat large quantities of carbohydrates without getting fogged out of my mind.4. Anti-bacterial/fungal/parasitic herbs and garlic -- I only take them once in a while but in the beginning they were an important part of my IBS elimination program.5. Probiotics -- i think they are helping.6. Chlorella and blue-green algae -- I think these are helping. My brain seems to be more alert.7. Fiber -- I can take fiber supplements for the first time in years !!!!!!!!!!!! Psyllium used to cause severe problems but no longer! i also take crushed flax seed and bentonite clay.8. Glutamine -- I don't know if this is helping but i take it.


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## dianne (Jan 16, 2000)

Hi Kel .. wondering how you are ?Also, I want to let everyone know I am going on a much-needed holiday for four weeks so if anyone needs any advice re Ibsacol, pse email directly to the company ... use help with an 'at" sign ibsacol full stop com and someone will email you with answers to your questions.Kel -- I hope you are still doing well and things are steadily improving ?kind wishesdiannefor the record, I am director of the New Zealand company that developed and produces Ibsacol.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

Dianne,I improved so much with regards to my IBS that I started to focus on my battered nervous system (which is also much improved). In fact I no longer have to take a certain drug which i was on for 6 straight years. Every time I quit taking it i got bad again. it has been 45 days off the drug--- amazing!!!I am still undergoing the heavy metal detox. mercury is coming out much slower than initially. I know that mercury is behind some of my problems such as immune dysfunction. I need to get rid of it.Every time i quit taking the antibacterial herbs I start to get sick again. Ibsacol can only do so much i guess.My plan is to get rid of the mercury and then see what happens. I will continue to take the herbs, garlic, raw onion, and ibsacol. if i continue to get sick when i quit taking the herbs then at that point i am going overseas to a certain country (poland) where they know how to treat these things with vaccinations from bacterial cultures (from the patients).My asthma continues to be at an all time low. My sinuses are clear 80% of the time (amazing) (i'm healing!!!). My nervous system is much better (but only when I am off of DMSA --mercury chelation drug/amino). My mood has improved considerably except when the mercury is coming out ------- which is about 3 to 10 hours after taking the drug.Does ibsacol have anti-viral activity? I hypothesized that it did based on some research i did on dodecanoic acid and even monolaurin (which i believe takes the form of an ester even though it is a monoglyceride).anyway, i gave it to my grandmother who has a horrible case of shingles and it improved her quite a bit. could that be?I have even wondered at times if ibsacol could be disabling some unknown virus. probably not but it has crossed my mind a few times.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

i am still baffled as to what causes the type of IBS that I have (i.e., the type that responds to fatty acid ester immunomodulation).I really need to know the answer to this because ibsacol seems to only control my symptoms instead of curing it.i am giving more and more thought to the idea that it is some type of virus or "vaccination gone bad". Although, bacteria and parasites (undetected parasites ---which we all have despite what most medical personnel may think) could be at the root of the problem.Maybe it is not one single cause but a couple of causes that start the immune dysfunction.I am using N-A-G along with other essential and non-essential saccharides and i have high hopes that this mode of treatment will dig deeper into the cause of the condition. (my theory is that some people are poor at creating essential sugars such as fucose, mannose, xylose, sialic acid, NAG,...). If these sugars are missing on the cell surface then disaster may be the result. Also, N-A-G is purported to be a wonder molecule for rebuilding the intestinal mucosa.


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

KEL____________________"i am still baffled as to what causes the type of IBS that I have "____________________Hey long time no see...don't get here much anymore to damn busy....better than NOT being busy I assure you!







No mystery to it at all for doctors who have followed this line of research. Hell! They were putting IBS patients into remission with cromolyn sodium 20 years ago!







Trouble is most immune modulators lose effect over time...CS alweays ends up in tachyphylaxis so it is not practical clinically. But the specific long term effects of several OTC immunomodulator types like this one which are now available have yet to be looked at in a controlled fashion over the long term to see exactly how long the effect of immunocyte stabilization can be expected to continue. This will happen in due course I am sure as it is as priomisng an area as is antibiotic and probiotic treatment for certain subpopulations.Which is for whom needs to be carefully defined, for obvious reasons. I know people in the U.K. who are working on such things.Loss of Oral Tolerance is one description of the problem which results in the IBS symptoms of diarrheics....either after some infection or without a precursor infection, it can happen either way.The immune systems very complex mechanisms to differentiate pathogens from non-pathogens is partially disrupted. Sound simple, in practicality it is amazingly complex...but it is being unravelled.NON antigenic things, like food components, which should not provoke any kind of inflammatory response at all begin to do so. When they do the clinical symptoms we call 'IBS with d" or "cyclic D &C" can occur.If the reaction occurs in a different locus, mostly systemically rather than primarily in the samll bowel, the person ends up with a different symptom set. This is what is ebing found in migraine, and several other headache types, and in such comorbid conditions as FMS...systemic cytokine release is seen psot-fod challenge with foods to which the subject has lost tolerance.It is not a myth as it has been quantified and pubslished several times...and new work is going on using some very new technologies as we speak. Some stuff that is going to be really cool when it is done and published. Some old ifeas and dogma are going to be shattered.....







Anyway this Loss of Tolerance problem has been shown to not involve allergic reactions (antibodies) that can be detected systemically, as no specific IgE antibodies to the food which provokes the reaction are found (unless the person has comorbid food allergy, in which case that comorbisity is excluded from discussion).There are many pathways to the end results of the inappropriate release or syntheses of proinflammtory and proalgesic mediators from varous immunocyte classes, from thsoe in the gut mucosa itself like mast cells and EC cells, to the lymphocytes which circulate in and out of the gut wall as part of their normal function (they can become activated and begin to also accumulate at the site of activation, the upper bowel, for example) and even granulocytes and macrophages and platelets can be involved. Sometimes other immunoglobulins can be involved (IgG) but this is not a rule...this is but one other mechanism of perhaps 8-10...it is still not even clear what all the mechanisms are.But what is known si that the old Gel & Coombs classifications do not define the limits of immune response.Some investigators call the mechanism at work which rsults in the clinical picture of the diarrheic IBS victim "Intestinal allergy" because an allergic-like reaction of mltiple cell types including mucosal cells occurs in the small bowel in repsonse to food challenge, and IgE armed mast cells can be found, along with non-mast cell mediators inthe washings, BUT there is no food-specific IgE in the plasma...instead their are cytokines, for example, from activated lymphocytes which can also be seen aggregating at the root ganglia of the myenteric plexus.Anyway it is not at all totally clear but it is getting clearer by the year. As is the way systemic inflammtory mediators can "communocate with" and influence the function of different parts of the brain, and which can be measuered by many means including MRI, and whcih if released into the plasma will also activate the HPA axis.An interesting tutorial on this was publiashed in Proceedings of the Society for Experimantal Biology and Medicine 223: 22-38 in 2000. It is a turitoal called "How the Blood talks To The Barin Parenchyma and the Paraventicular Nucleus of the Hypothalmus During Syetmic Immune Activation and Infectious Stimuli".It gives fascinating insights into the significance of the findings of food-induece systemic immune activation, the mediators that have been detetcted being released, and this article explains how those emdiators act directly or indirectly upon specifi areas of the brain to alter function and reposne to such things as efferent pain stimuli and other things widely discussed but not in the context of how ssytmeic immune activation can make it happen, only in the context of a psychological model for the activity.Anyway gotta run no time to edit the many typos...have to be in Tampa by tonight for the F.O.M.A. convention!Stay well! ANd don't feel like a physiologic fluke...you are not...you have much company and some scientists are studying what makes people like you...and me...and others...develop what we developed and why it reacts to such things as oligoantigenic diet or immunomodulation with remission.It is real.







MNL


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## wlwoodma (Jun 16, 2003)

MikeNL,Great post. Wow, that is a lot of info! It does make sense though. I am currently trying the Ibsacol route and I think it is helping but not 100% sure yet - I guess I am skeptical of anything. I hope I can continue to feel good and now I am a bit worried that the effect may wear off. will have to wait and see.I have a couple of questions based on what you say - (note- I am not arguing, I am just interested in your or anyone else's opinion)Why don't docs prescribe cromolyn sodium anymore? I realize the "remission" is just temporary but seems like if someone was in a real bad IBS time maybe they could at least get relief. (Better than some of the drugs they prescribe for us now anyway.)Also, if IBS-D is an immunological condition, then how does fiber play into it? Does it just help to manage symptoms? Also, it seems more and more that IBS is something we all will have to live with for life but that remission is when we can keep our symptoms below the radar. I know in my case I have to worry both about anxiety and food triggers. I was originally diagnosed about 20 years ago and then went through a really long time of remission. I thought I was cured but now realize I just was doing things to manage my symptoms. I am also seeing how this condition can be liken to asthma in that there can be allergens that trigger problems but that there is also emotional asthma.SG


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

FYIInflammatory Bowel Disease and Irritable Bowel Syndrome: Separate or Unified?from Current Opinion in GastroenterologyPosted 07/15/2003Sylvie Bradesi, PhD, James A. McRoberts, Ph.D, Peter A. Anton, MD, Emeran A. Mayer, MDAbstract and IntroductionAbstractBoth irritable bowel syndrome and inflammatory bowel diseases share symptoms of altered bowel habits associated with abdominal pain or discomfort. Irritable bowel syndrome has been referred to as a functional bowel disorder, which is diagnosed by a characteristic cluster of symptoms in the absence of detectable structural abnormalities. Inflammatory bowel disease is a heterogeneous group of disorders characterized by various forms of chronic mucosal and/or transmural inflammation of the intestine. In this review, the authors discuss recent evidence suggesting several potential mechanisms that might play a pathophysiologic role in both syndromes. Possible shared pathophysiologic mechanisms include altered mucosal permeability, an altered interaction of luminal flora with the mucosal immune system, persistent mucosal immune activation, alterations in gut motility, and a role of severe, sustained life stressors in symptom modulation. It is proposed that similarities and differences between the two syndromes can best be addressed within the framework of interactions between the central nervous system and the gut immune system. Based on recent reports of low-grade mucosal inflammation in subpopulations of patients meeting current diagnostic criteria for irritable bowel syndrome, therapeutic approaches shown to be effective in inflammatory bowel disease, such as probiotics, antibiotics, and antiinflammatory agents, have been suggested as possible therapies for certain patients with irritable bowel syndrome.IntroductionInflammatory bowel disease (IBD) and irritable bowel syndrome (IBS) represent two conditions characterized by chronically recurring symptoms of abdominal pain, discomfort (urgency and bloating) and alterations in bowel habits. However, whereas IBD is characterized by inflammation or ulcerations in the small and/or large intestine, such "organic" changes have traditionally not been associated with IBS. IBD is usually classified as ulcerative colitis or Crohn disease, but it also includes forms of microscopic colitis, eg, histologic evidence of mucosal inflammation without macroscopic abnormalities. IBD is characterized by a constellation of patient-reported history and endoscopic, histopathologic, and radiologic findings, often with serologic correlates. Classic signs that reflect the inflammatory process within the gastrointestinal tract are rectal bleeding, diarrhea, fever, and weight loss, occasionally associated with extraintestinal manifestations. Interestingly, in the absence of complications, abdominal pain is not necessarily the most prominent symptom in IBD, despite extensive mucosal inflammation and presumably sensitization of peripheral visceral pain pathways. Genetic predisposition, environmental factors, infectious agents, altered gut epithelial permeability, and impaired immune responses have been incriminated in the still unclear cause of IBD.By contrast, IBS, classified as functional (as opposed to organic) bowel disorder, is currently diagnosed on the basis of a characteristic cluster of symptoms in the absence of detectable structural abnormalities. As a matter of fact, according to the currently used symptom criteria (Rome criteria), once organic changes are detected, a diagnosis of a functional syndrome can no longer be made.[1] Because of the nonspecificity of the cardinal symptoms of abdominal pain or abdominal discomfort (the latter including bloating-type symptoms, a sensation of rectal urgency, or incomplete evacuation), the current diagnosis of IBS applies to a heterogeneous group of patients, even after attempts to define subgroups based on predominant bowel habit. Current theories to explain the pathophysiology of IBS include alteration in visceral perception, gastrointestinal motility and gut epithelial and immune function. Considerable evidence supports a role of psychosocial and physical (ie, gastroenteric infections) stressors as central and peripheral triggers, respectively, of first symptom onset or exacerbation.[2*] As reflected by an increasing number of publications on the subject, considerable interest in the putative role of low-grade chronic inflammation in the pathogenesis of IBS has recently emerged.[3] Enhanced responsiveness to psychosocial and physical stressors has been suggested as a plausible mechanism that could explain most clinical and experimental findings in IBS, and that is consistent with the majority of the reported physiologic alterations.[4]Evidence of Mucosal Immune Activation in Patients Meeting Symptom Criteria for Inflammatory Bowel DiseasesSeveral recent independent studies have demonstrated alterations in the gut-associated immune system. Quantitative assessment in unselected patients with IBS have shown increased mast cell numbers in the ileum[5] and colonic mucosa.[6] Preliminary evidence suggests an increase of overall cellularity in the colonic mucosa[7] and a higher number of mast cells containing tryptase (known to have proinflammatory effects) in the colonic lamina propria of patients with IBS.[8] Additional preliminary results indicate a significant increase of inducible nitric oxide synthase (iNOS) expression in the colonic mucosa from unselected patients with IBS compared with control patients.[9] In the human colon, upregulation of iNOS has been implicated in inflammatory processes, and increased expression has been documented in IBD.[10] More recently, a study by Chadwick et al.[11*] demonstrated intestinal mucosal immune activation in 77 symptomatic patients meeting the Rome criteria (the authors did not specify Rome I vs II criteria). The study included patients with diarrhea, constipation, or both. In 38 of the patients (50%), a normal conventional histologic appearance was seen, but the immunohistologic results were abnormal (intraepithelial lymphocytes-IEL, lamina propria CD25+ and CD3+ lymphocytes). In 40% of patients, nonspecific microscopic inflammation was seen, whereas immunohistologic results showed similar increases in lymphocyte populations as in the first group. However, in contrast to the first group, they also showed increased numbers of neutrophils and mast cells. Ten percent of patients fulfilled the histologic and immunohistologic criteria for lymphocytic colitis. Even though the magnitude of changes in cell numbers was far less than observed in patients with IBD, the increased numbers of IEL, T cells, IL-2 receptor expressing cells, suppressor/cytotoxic T cells, and NK cells were consistent with an increased inflammatory cell presence in a subset of patients with altered bowel habits who met the symptom-based Rome criteria. Because a significant number of patients meeting the Rome criteria also met the histologic criteria for a diagnosis of lymphocytic colitis, the findings highlight a major problem with the way we currently diagnose IBS. By definition, the diagnosis of an organic disease such as lymphocytic colitis is inconsistent with a diagnosis of IBS. Furthermore, it is unclear whether the patients met the Rome criteria because of the presence of discomfort (urgency, bloating) relieved by bowel movements, or whether they reported abdominal pain. Using the current Rome criteria, a diagnosis of IBS can be made in any patient experiencing abdominal discomfort (for example, in the form of urgency or bloating-type symptoms), that is relieved by a bowel movement. In the absence of mucosal histology to rule out macroscopic or microscopic forms of colitis, such a symptom cluster is likely to include a wide range of syndromes with different causes and pathologic mechanisms.Another study reported neuromuscular and inflammatory abnormalities in the small bowel of 10 patients (8 women; age range 24-55 years) with severe IBS symptoms.[12] Surprising for an IBS population, the symptoms apparently were severe and refractory enough to justify a laparoscopic full-thickness biopsy. The durations of IBS symptoms ranged from 2 to 30 years, and the predominant bowel habits included constipation, diarrhea, and alternating bowel habits. In this study, analysis of full-thickness biopsy specimens of the jejunum from IBS patients (diagnosis having been made on the basis of absence of detectable structural lesions and fulfillment of the Rome I criteria for IBS) showed several histopathologic abnormalities. The authors reported in most patients some neural degeneration in the ganglia of the myenteric plexus associated with infiltration of CD3+ T lymphocytes and longitudinal muscle hypertrophy. In some cases, IEL numbers were increased, and the numbers of interstitial cells of Cajal were also increased. There are two major problems with the reported findings. First is the absence of an appropriate control group. For example, the observed mucosal alterations in the proximal jejunum were compared with biopsy specimens obtained from the distal ileum during colonoscopy, and alterations in the jejunal wall were compared with findings obtained in tissues from deceased patients (of unspecified sex and age). Second, as admitted by the authors, the patients in this study represented a highly selected group with severe symptoms that were apparently refractory to current management. Even though it was stated that patients had normal or nonspecific changes on small intestinal manometry, it is conceivable that the patients had a mild or early form of chronic intestinal pseudoobstruction. Analogous to the comments made above about the nonspecificity of the Rome criteria to differentiate microscopic colitis from IBS, the same argument could be made for chronic intestinal pseudoobstruction.Patients in another group, frequently discussed as evidence for a possible role of altered gut immune function in IBS, are those in whom IBS-like symptoms develop after a documented gastroenteric infection (so-called postinfectious IBS [PI-IBS] patients). A history of acute gastroenteritis caused by a variety of bacterial infections as well as parasitic infections was found to increase the risk of the development of persistent IBS symptoms. The risk factors associated with PI-IBS include female gender, duration of the acute illness episode, and a major stressful life event at the time of the infection. Patients with PI-IBS have been reported to show changes in gut motility (eg, reduced rectal compliance) and epithelial function and an increase in enterochromaffin cells.[13, 14] In addition, mucosal immune parameters in these patients exhibit changes that include altered macrophage (CD68) and T lymphocyte (CD3, CD4, CD8) populations and increased expression of IL-1 mRNA.[15] Some of these changes, as well as symptoms of diarrhea, were shown to persist for more than a year in some cases, suggesting chronic immune system activation.[15] Although the mechanisms involved in the ongoing inflammation after clearance of the infectious agent remain unclear, it has been suggested that a subset of IBS patients may have a genetic predisposition to inflammatory dysregulation. Preliminary evidence suggests a reduced frequency of the high producer allele for the antiinflammatory cytokines IL-10 and TGF-, suggesting a reduced production of these cytokines in patients with IBS compared with healthy control subjects.[16] Several important questions have to be addressed before the existence of a distinct pathophysiologic entity of PI-IBS can be confirmed. (1) Even though persistence of low-grade inflammation has been described in individuals who continued to be symptomatic, a causal role of these mucosal changes with IBS symptoms has not been demonstrated.[14, 15] Preliminary reports from a therapeutic trial with an antiinflammatory agent in PI-IBS did not demonstrate any effect on symptoms.[17] (2) There is currently no evidence of visceral hypersensitivity in this patient group, and the reported lower volume thresholds for discomfort simply reflect a reduced rectal compliance. (3) It is unclear whether patients who report their first onset of IBS symptoms after an enteric infection have a history of other intestinal or extraintestinal functional syndromes (such as dyspepsia or chronic constipation) or anxiety disorders. In this case, the persistence of bowel symptoms may simply be a reactivation of a preexisting functional syndrome.Tibble et al.[18**] compared a large population of patients with altered bowel habits meeting the Rome I criteria for IBS and patients with different organic diseases of the intestine, including IBD, cancer, infectious diarrhea, and celiac disease. They observed that markers for intestinal inflammation, such as fecal calprotectin levels, were elevated in the majority of patients with organic gastrointestinal conditions and decreased in the majority of patients with IBS. The sensitivity and specificity of fecal calprotectin levels for organic intestinal disease were 89% and 79%, respectively. However, the authors observed a significant number of IBS patients whose fecal calprotectin levels were above a normal cutoff value, suggesting some degree of inflammation.Taken together, the above findings are most consistent with the concept that in a subset of patients meeting the current diagnostic criteria for IBS, chronic low-grade immune activation may be associated with chronic changes in gut motor and secretory function resulting in chronic abdominal discomfort associated with altered bowel habits. However, a causal relationship between visceral hypersensitivity and chronic immune activation has not been demonstrated.Altered Immune System and Inflammation in Inflammatory Bowel DiseasesClassic histopathologic inspection of tissue from patients with IBD reveals vasodilatation, venocongestion, edema, infiltration of large numbers of inflammatory cells (lymphocytes as well as macrophages and monocytes), and architectural disarray, often with mucosal erosions and/or frank ulcerations. Although the causative triggers remain unclear, the role of a persistent and likely dysregulated mucosal immune response is central to the pathogenesis of IBD. However, it remains unclear whether the persistent inflammation, an intrinsic feature of IBD, reflects a primary aberration in mucosal response or results from an inappropriate persistent stimulation. Accumulating evidence indicates that excessive activation of immunoinflammatory responses in IBD may be initiated by luminal flora. In this regard, recent data showed no difference in the overall composition of mucosal flora in patients with IBD and control subjects but demonstrated a higher concentration of mucosa-associated bacteria in patients with IBD.[19] The authors suggest that the changes in the concentrations of mucosal flora in IBD are not secondary to inflammation but result from a host-specific altered immunoinflammatory mucosal response to "self-flora" in susceptible individuals. The role of genetic factors continues to be explored, with disease susceptibility associated with genetic markers for particular subsets of IBD patients. Recent studies using genome-wide screening provided the first link between NOD2 mutations and the clinical characterization of Crohn disease.[20, 21] NOD proteins are thought to be cytosolic receptors for bacterial signals, and NOD2 is expressed in monocytes and activates nuclear factor kB (NF-kB). However, the mechanisms by which NOD2 mutations contribute to Crohn disease need further investigation. It has been hypothesized that different concentrations of bacteria in the ileum relative to the colon may contribute to the association between NOD2 mutations and ileal disease. A genetic background was also identified in ulcerative colitis associated with HLA genes and regions of the chromosomes 3, 7, and 12.[22] In a recent review, Ardizzone et al.[23**] compiled the genetic factors recently involved in the pathogenesis of IBD. Considering the central role of cytokines in modulating intestinal inflammation, several studies have focused on cytokine genes, looking for mutations or polymorphisms and expression dysregulation.[24] In Crohn disease, an increased expression of T-helper-1 (Th1) cytokines was initially described, whereas an atypical Th2 response was associated with ulcerative colitis, but this assessment is now thought to be too simplistic. Cytokine gene-regulated differences between and within the diseases are clearly more complex. Advances in the understanding of the immune response in IBD have stimulated the development of new therapeutic agents directed against key players in the inflammatory process. A range of therapeutic strategies to block the biosynthesis or action of proinflammatory cytokines, acting directly or though targeting immunoregulatory cytokines, has been developed.[25]Among specific targets, tumor necrosis factor- (TNF-) was among the first mucosal cytokines identified as critical in the development and amplification of mucosal inflammation in IBD.[26] Recent clinical trials showed that anti-TNF- antibodies provide marked clinical benefits in some patients with Crohn disease: a translational insight that has now become commonplace in IBD clinical therapy.[27, 28] An inhibitor of mitogen-activated protein kinase (MAPK) appears to be another candidate in novel therapeutic strategies. A beneficial effect of CNI-1493 (MAPK inhibitor) in patients with severe Crohn disease was recently described.[29] A better characterization of the molecular signaling pathways involved in the activation of key immune and inflammatory cells will indubitably provide new targets for the development of therapeutic agents for IBD.What Unifies and Separates Irritable Bowel Syndrome and Inflammatory Bowel DiseasesPossible Role of Failure to Downregulate Immune ResponseA comparison of published data on the activation of the gut-associated mucosal immune system in IBS and IBD reflects both the similarities and the differences in the altered immune response observed in these disorders. However, the triggering factor initiating the inflammatory response remains unclear. In IBS, an immune response to infection,[30] a disinhibition of the immune system during chronic sustained stress (Fig. 1), or a combination of both are plausible mechanisms that could result in the initial immune activation. The persistence of low-grade inflammation after pathogen clearance or after resolution of the psychosocial stressor, in a subset of individuals, may be related to an inability to efficiently downregulate the inflammatory response. This inability may be related to genetic factors or to early programming of antiinflammatory systems, such as the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal (HPA).[31*] For example, a hyporesponsive HPA axis in the Lewis rat has been shown to be associated with exaggerated immune responses to various stimuli, including chemically induced colitis.[32] The most recent available data on IBD increasingly emphasize the role of immunogenetics in the predisposition, modulation, and perpetuation of the disease.[33] The abnormal amplification and persistence of inflammation leading to tissue injuries likely reflects the continuing presence of the driving stimulus and self-reinforcing activation of mucosal inflammatory cells mediated by increased expression of cytokines. Figure 1. (click image to zoom) Brain-gut immune interactions in irritable bowel syndrome and inflammatory bowel disease: effect of chronic stress on the mucosal immune system. Acute stress causes increases in the activity of the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) axis and of the two branches of the autonomic nervous system (ANS), the sympathetic nervous system (SNS), and the parasympathetic (vagal) system. In patients with irritable bowel syndrome, the peripherally acting products of each of these pathways (cortisol, CORT; norepinephrine, NE; acetylcholine, Ach) can inhibit the mucosal immune system, especially Th1-type responses. This results in a temporary shift toward Th2 cytokine responses (IL-4 and others) that are not as strongly inhibited and that can further inhibit Th1 responses. In patients with inflammatory bowel diseases, the corticotropin-releasing factor (CRF) response may be blunted, leading to diminished CORT and NE release. These changes favor the production of Th1 cytokines and the proliferation of macrophages, natural killer (NK) cells, and cytotoxic T cells (Tc). TNF, which is produced by activated macrophages but can also be released by activated mast cells, stimulates the production of IL-1 (in the Th1 pathway) and IL-6 (by lymphoid and nonlymphoid tissues). With chronic stress in both types of patients, the shift to a Th1 response becomes predominant, with positive feedback loops developing between the gut and the brain. The restraints on immune cell proliferation and activation are compromised by blunting of the HPA axis response due to downregulation of pituitary CRF1 receptors, decreased vagal tone, and downregulation of 2-adrenergic receptors (2-AR) on Th1 immune cells by chronically elevated catecholamines. Circulating levels of TNF-, IL-1, and IL-6 increase to concentrations that synergistically stimulate CRF production in the PVN of the hypothalamus. In irritable bowel syndrome, TNF and IL-1 sensitize primary afferent terminals through long-lasting effects on gene expression, including the expression of neurokinin receptors. Locally acting mast cell products (tryptase and histamine) and proinflammatory compounds (PGE2) can also sensitize primary afferents. Both IFN (Th1 cytokine), which is produced by NK cells in response to TNF, and IL-4 (a Th2 cytokine) have been shown to decrease mucosal barrier function by increasing epithelial permeability,[54,55] thus perpetuating a local inflammatory response by allowing entry of bacteria and bacterial products. Subjective pain responses to peripheral sensitization of visceral afferents in irritable bowel syndrome and inflammatory bowel diseases are likely to be modulated differentially by endogenous pain modulation pathways. DMN, dorsal motor nucleus of the vagus; ACTH, adrenocorticotropin hormone. Increased PermeabilityFor both syndromes, histologic and functional alterations of the mucosal barrier have been recently reported.[11*, 12, 24, 25] Small intestinal permeability is abnormal in a wide variety of conditions affecting the small intestine, including celiac disease, Crohn disease, and intestinal infections.[18**] Interestingly, gut permeability assessed by the lactulose/mannitol ratio is significantly elevated in PI-IBS patients.[15] This functional alteration of the intestinal barrier function may be a cause or consequence of inflammation, and a direct link between increased intestinal permeability and the exaggerated immune activation in IBD still needs to be confirmed. In addition to a causative role of peripheral factors, gut permeability changes in animal models have also been reported in response to various stressors. For example, in a rat model of chronic stress, an increase in intestinal epithelial permeability, associated with an increase in mucosal neutrophils and mast cells, has been demonstrated.[34**] In this model, the combination of stress-induced increases in intestinal permeability, allowing easier access of antigens to gut-associated macrophages and dendritic cells, together with stress-induced changes in HPA axis responsiveness and cytokine profiles, resulted in the development of colitis, without any additional chemical or immunologic manipulations. Rats with a history of aversive early life events were more susceptible to these stress-induced changes in gut permeability,[35*] possibly related to early programming of the HPA axis.[31*]Changes in Luminal FloraA change in intestinal microflora has been implicated, in association with genetic factors, as a putative mechanism responsible for the initiation and persistence of inflammation in IBD. Indeed, it has been suggested that the failure to maintain immunologic tolerance toward the indigenous microflora leads to a disease-associated dysregulation of the gut-associated immune system. Direct and indirect evidence of altered flora of the large and small intestine has been reported in IBS patients. For example, Balsari et al.[36] observed a decrease in coliforms, lactobacilli, and, to some extent, bifidobacteria in a small group of IBS patients. More recently, preliminary evidence of an alteration of bacterial concentration in colonic biopsy specimens from IBS patients has been reported.[37] Indirect evidence for bacterial overgrowth of the small intestine (in the form of altered hydrogen breath test results) has been reported in patients with IBS, and a recent randomized controlled trial found evidence that antibiotic treatment was beneficial for IBS symptoms of bloating and discomfort.[38] Based on the concept of altered interactions between the colonic flora and the gut-associated immune system, probiotics have been proposed as an alternative strategy for the treatment of several gastrointestinal diseases, including IBD[39] and more recently IBS.[40, 41] However, the reported results are conflicting, and only a small number of double-blind controlled clinical trials support a beneficial health effect in IBD or IBS.[42] The epithelium has recently been recognized as playing an important role in innate immune responses in response to intestinal microorganisms.[43, 44] It expresses a variety of receptors (Toll-like receptor) involved in the recognition of a spectrum of microbial products. This recognition capability may enable an appropriate cytokine and chemokine secretion in response to changes in luminal flora.Influence of Sustained Psychosocial Stressors on Mucosal Immune System ActivationEven though stress has been less recognized as a factor in the natural history of IBD, considerable evidence supports a prominent role for it in the pathophysiology and clinical presentation of both IBD and IBS symptoms.[45] Patients with IBS seem to have a greater reactivity to stress than do control subjects or IBD patients. Yet, sustained psychologic stressors have been associated with the onset and exacerbation of symptoms in both IBS and IBD.[46-48] The development of persistent IBS symptoms after acute gastroenteritis has been associated with major life events around the time of infection.[14] Similarly, for IBD, a wide range of clinical studies indicates a strong link between sustained psychosocial stressors and IBD activity.[49] Levels of long-term perceived stress have been shown to correlate with changes in mucosal appearance and relapse in ulcerative colitis.[50*] Further evidence of an influence of stress on inflammatory processes comes from animal studies showing a modulation of the immune function at different levels, including immune cell distribution, cytokine profiles, or susceptibility to infection in naï¿½ve or colitic animals.[51] In view of the established concept of an altered immune response in IBD patients, and the suspected low-grade inflammation in some patients meeting the symptom criteria for IBS, it is reasonable to consider a bidirectional model of brain-gut interactions as an important determinant of gut-associated immune activation in both disorders.Chronic Inflammation and Alteration of Sensory-Motor Functions of the Gastrointestinal TractDespite the common assumption that chronic gut mucosal inflammation is associated with sensory-motor dysfunction of the gastrointestinal tract in inflammatory as well as functional intestinal disorders, the relationship between chronic inflammation and the generation of gastrointestinal symptoms remains unclear. The development of IBS-like symptoms in some patients with quiescent ulcerative colitis was suggested as an indication of the role of inflammation on altered sensory and motor function.[8] The concept of long-lasting postinflammatory changes in gut motility is supported by the observation of altered anorectal and colonic motility in patients in remission from ulcerative colitis and Crohn disease.[52] However, chronic abdominal pain and visceral hypersensitivity-classic features in patients with IBS-do not appear to be a hallmark of ulcerative colitis or Crohn disease.[53] One may speculate that various patient populations with different degrees of intestinal inflammation (patients with IBD and PI-IBS, and possibly small subsets of those with IBS) do not necessarily experience pain and discomfort from these mucosal changes. Whereas the effects of the immune activation are likely to affect enteric nervous system circuits and smooth muscle function, altering intestinal compliance and reflex activity and producing such symptoms as diarrhea and urgency, the effects on visceral perception are less predictable. An important variable in symptom generation is the differences in the ability of the brain and its endogenous pain inhibitory pathways to counteract the changes in peripheral viscerosensory pathways.ConclusionThe recent observation of an activated immune system in some IBS patients associated with persistent low-grade mucosal inflammation provides evidence for the reconsideration of the symptom-criteria-based diagnosis of functional bowel disorders. The development and use of biologic markers identifying low-grade inflammation would improve the characterization of subsets of IBS patients in whom peripheral mechanisms may participate in specific symptom genesis and could be considered in the choice of the therapy. http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/457728_1


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

*To all fellow suffering IBSers out there. If your symptoms sound like mine then I strongly recommend that you give this stuff a try. * *My results have been stunning. * However, I am still not satisfied because i know that the condition still exists within me. It is waiting to assert itself once again.MNL -- I love reading your posts. They are always extremely relavant and highly informative. Eric, excellent post.MNL, i might be suffering from the phenomena that you mention (the immune system reacting to benign bacteria). This could possibly explain why i need to take the herbs/raw onion/garlic herbal anti-biotic combination repeatedly. To anyone who might want to try Ibsacol ---- avoidance of alcohol and avoidance of trigger foods (wheat, milk ?????? whatever foods it might be...) is very important. Also, careful consideration should be given to the phenomena that i have repeatedly described concerning anti-bacterial/fungal/parasitic herbs. (i have no clue if i have microscopic parasites but I take the herbs anyway). When i take very large quantities of potent herbs that control microorganisms I am helped immensely. However, if i take the herbs without taking ibsacol, i will only receive marginal relief. I do not know what happens by just taking ibsacol by itself. the longest i have gone without the herbs in tandem with the ibsacol was 8 days. But consistantly, around the 6th day without the herbs problems start to arise such as gas, odor, and stool irregularities. At that point, i re-administer the herbs and after about 48 hours (2 consecutive large doses) ---i am back to passing very large, well-formed bowel movements again. however, the whole thing hinges on the Ibsacol. (Dianne, was is this stuff anyway???)*************************************************back to the topic, MNL, i hope that tachyphlaxis does not occur (although to some minor extent it sort of does -- but then at later points i get to 100% again ----so i don't know what is happening).i am still completely baffled as to what is at the deepest level of my IBS. all i can do is to continue to investigate different approaches.Mercury results just came in --- i'm pulling .17 which means i am almost done!!!!!!!!! it has been 4 1/2 months of a mild form of horror (tremors, shakes, mood disturbances -- when i am pulling it out). Initially I was pulling .85 (again, i do not know to what extent mercury plays a role in my health problems (possibly very little, possibly 25%, who knows), but after extensive research ---i know for a FACT that mercury does not belong in our mouths or our bodies. Mercury is incredibly toxic and it has a special affinity for the pituitary and hypothalamus glands along with nerve endings. Some people have serious metal hypersensitivities and severe selenium deficiencies which allow for the production of the incredibly toxic methyl mercury compound to be formed.) **************************************************back to the topic again, i am experimenting with mushrooms (Primal Defense --RM-10). i thought that i would be allergic to them due to a prior yeast overgrowth (thrush, etc.) condition, and due to a very bad atypical mold spore allergy. however, i seem to tolerate them just fine. i need to be careful because i do not want to overstimulate my immune system in a wrong kind of way (and therefore negate the Ibsacol) but i need to be aggressive (in case the ibsacol effect wears off) so i can get to the root cause of my IBS. the mushrooms are potent at killing bacteria and even disabling certain types of viruses. My hope is that the mushrooms will conquer whatever is going on inside of me (I doubt it will happen but who knows...).I have cautiously optimistic hopes for my essential saccharide therapy that I have undertaken about 5 days ago. there is a product called Molocure which is a polysaccharide from Aloe vera. it is probably a collection of Mannose sugars which are vital to the proper functioning of the body. Maybe it will work. Molocure is way overpriced. Drinking non-whole leaf aloe vera is the smarter thing to do ---i think. However, if push comes to shove, i will buy the molocure. whatever it takes to solve this dreadful condition is what i will do. even though i am in remission, i still don't feel safe. Plus, my diet is still too limited. the molocure site claims that Molocure is very effective for immune system type problems ---especially IBD.I know that N-A-G and glucosamine are extremely effective for joint repair and this makes me very hopeful that these sugars and others can repair other damage as well.dianne, at the end of July i ate sloppy for 8 days in a row and it finally caught up with me. it corrected itself after 4 days of enemas and a return to my strict diet. When can i eat like other people instead of my ridiculous 3 bean diet (black, mung, aduki). (I ate parsley and cilantro and my ear started to bleed after i blew my nose -- it took 2 weeks for the pain to go away). the cilantro must have caused a severe swelling of my blood vessels --- 15 minutes after eating it my head felt like it was full of water).


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

At a medical conference in Tampa and our exhibit booth opens soon...oops open... so I have to go fast.Typing on junkie laptop. Be patient&#8230;SCIENCEGIRL asks&#8230;.."Why don't docs prescribe cromolyn sodium anymore? I realize the "remission" is just temporary but seems like if someone was in a real bad IBS time maybe they could at least get relief. (Better than some of the drugs they prescribe for us now anyway.)"Cromolyn sodium was only tried in Europe, and while the results were very useful in waving the red flag that someone should look at the possibility of an aberration in adaptive immune response in the d-type population, tachyphylaxis sets in relatively quickly. In some cases patients who achieved 100% remission for the first few weeks soon were takin 80-90 capsules a day to get the same effect. Sort of like finding out a parachute works really great for the first 10,000 feet of the jump but collapses about 1,000 fet above the ground. It's not the fall, it's the sudden stop.There are still some authors of clinical guidelines in Europe who do recommend a trial of CS to help with some temporary relief while getting the patient to start an oligoantigenic diet. "Also, if IBS-D is an immunological condition, then how does fiber play into it? Does it just help to manage symptoms?"Second part first: let's quote Kevin Olden MD (GI Dept. Mayo Clinic, Scottsdale) in The Cleveland Clinic Journal of Medicine, Vol. 70, Supplement 1 June 2003:"The traditional therapies for IBS have included fiber, and a number of symptom based therapies specifically anticholinergics, laxatives, antidiarrheal medications, and antispasmolytics/smooth muscle relaxants (ie, dicyclomine and hyoscyamine).However, reviews of the literature on these therapies show that there is no good evidence that they are efficious for treating IBS. This conclusion was echoed by the recent position statement from the ACG Functional GI Disorders Task Force, which designated none of these agents effective for relieving global IBS symptoms".This is why fiber treatment is not efficacious overall for IBS subjects with a diarrhheic component, who are the people most likely to be suffering loss of oral tolerance. The fiber tx may firm up the bowel movements but it does nothing to treat the underlying condition, as evidenced by the fact the global symptoms as well as the local GI symptoms are not relieved. The global symptoms are the most reliable indicator that systemic proimnflammatory and proalgesic mediator release, and local mediator release in the gut have occurred. Nothing so direcrtly ratchets up extraintestinal symptoms a blast of something like TNF-alpha into the gut wall, plasma and into the CSF, for example. Any number of different mediator profiles have been observed to be provoked by oral challenge in association with the type of global symptoms manifest by this UBS population, and specific mediators have been recovered from the jejunal washings and the upper GI biopsies after food challenge via jejnual isolation or open oral challenge.Think of fiber as putting that STP stuiff into your oil when your engine has bad rings&#8230;you may increase the viscosity for awhile and reduce the smoking out the pipe, but you have done nothing for the actual problem."I know in my case I have to worry both about anxiety and food triggers."It is very rare that a victim of chronic bowel dysfunction does not have symptoms which are linked to both mechanisms and aggravated by disruption of either their correct diet or their mental state. Adaptivity is the problem with both the psychological aspects of IBS symptom generation and the inflammatory mechanisms&#8230;both involve adaptive-reactive mechanisms. This is whey we provide doctors with a treatment protocol which addresses BOTH&#8230;get the patient on a specific oligoantigenic diet and provide a self-adminstered tool for stress and anxiety reduction.Any time you combine multiple therapies, if they are the correct ones, the outcome is improved."I am also seeing how this condition can be liken to asthma in that there can be allergens that trigger problems but that there is also emotional asthma."This is a very good and valid observation. Above and beyond the fact that Asthma patients are more likely to suffer from IBS than are non-asthmatics&#8230;the gut immune system and the GI immune system work in a similar fashion&#8230;the difference is the respiratory tract's immune function does not have to include adaptive immunity to food antigens so there are mechanisms present in the gut-immune interface which are not present in the lung-immune interface.Anytime you activate peripheral nerve endings and sensors with intracellular mediator release, the direct effects of stress and anxiety upon the smooth muscle and upon sensory nerves is going to be amplified. This occurs in the CNS as well, as the return signals can be amplified by direct effect of variious mediators (so an amplified signal is received) plus you can upregulate specific areas of the brain itself with certain systemic mediators so that the originating signals are amplified (efferent). Combine these effects and you have what amounts to a complex reflex arc which has been upregulated. You can dampen the effect in some cases with psaychological therapies, but this is akin to altering perception. You can make a person percieve the immersion of their hand into hot water as a pleasant experience even as the hand is being scalded. So one has to be careful to identify what one is actually doing when one does it, not assume what is doing to be something based solely on observation of patient self reported perceptions. Both can occur.You can also break the reflex arc simply by eliminating the original stimulus: in the case of asthm it woukd usually be an inhaled antigen. In diarrheic IBS victims it is often certain foods or additives which are provoking the activation of the immune system, CNS and HPA axis. This is understood and has been pusblished in tutorials (how systemic inflammatory mediators activate the CNS and the HPA axis in systemic inflammatory events&#8230;.how the "blood talks to the brain"&#8230;and vice versa). Its all very intersting and much more interesting if yyou look at it from both two directions instead of just one. It makes IBS easier to comprehend.Note on the posted reference:"Inflammatory Bowel Disease and Irritable Bowel Syndrome: Separate or Unified?from Current Opinion in GastroenterologyPosted 07/15/2003Sylvie Bradesi, PhD, James A. McRoberts, Ph.D, Peter A. Anton, MD, Emeran A. Mayer, MD"This was a good review as it covered much, if not all, of the recent material pertinent to assessing the common factors and non-common factors in IBD and IBS populations. While there was material pertinent but not reviewed, the overall conclusions of the authors are very apt&#8230;."The recent observation of an activated immune system in some IBS patients associated with persistent low-grade mucosal inflammation provides evidence for the reconsideration of the symptom-criteria-based diagnosis of functional bowel disorders. The development and use of biologic markers identifying low-grade inflammation would improve the characterization of subsets of IBS patients in whom peripheral mechanisms may participate in specific symptom genesis and could be considered in the choice of the therapy."Indeed while it is unfortunate that it has taken so many years since this was first noted by several Eueopean researchers to reach an adequate state of recognition in the literature on this side of the ocean, and that so many investigators results have been either ignored or impugned to the detriment of the treatment of the affected population, it is nice to finally see that the approach to the vast IBS population and the pathogenesis of the condition is increasingly broadening.Being a person who has the extreme privilege of working with some knowledgeable authorities on immunology, allergy (and pathology), including one who has published the only medical texts in existence which even attempt to provide a wide range of instructon for physicians in understanding food induced immunlogic dysfunctions, I can say that these are probably the most important words from this article:"The development and use of biologic markers identifying low-grade inflammation would improve the characterization of subsets of IBS patients in whom peripheral mechanisms may participate in specific symptom genesis and could be considered in the choice of the therapy."Indeed this has been the greatest barrier in coming to understand how aberrations in adaptive immunity, which is a totally different phenomenon than "allergy", impact the IBS victims and contribute to the medchansism which create the GI and global symptoms of the condition.The fact that as many as, who knows, 100 different systemic proinflammatory and proalgesic mediators may be implicated in aberrations in immune function which represent at least (8) different distinct pathways, has been the stumbling block in coming to a full understanding of the relations between non-allergic inflammatory response to both extrinsic and intrinsic precipitating events (chronic stress, food antigens, and food additives). the technologies available have eithe rjust been imnpossibly difficult to use in the dfashion they need to be sued to arrive at the point everyone is looking for, or stunningly epxensive to use if you could contrive a protocol...or the ones that are workable have limitations of addressing only one or two mechanisms and do not quantify the mediators which are the end point of concern.This is what led to the development of technology to at least quantify the common end point of cell mediated reactions so that the physician could be provided clinical treatment protocols which were patient specific for prophylaxis, eliminating guesswork. What is very exciting where I sit is that another new technology (currently only used in a few research labs in the USA but which has been in use in the UK and elsewhere a bit longer) appears t have an application in this area&#8230;.one in which we can now much more easily quantify specific proinflammatory mediators and proalgesic mediators within the plasma and duplicate what elicits their synthesis and release, ore release from their preformed compartments.This is very exciting because it will give us the opportunity to isolate the range of mediators involved, and how they are elicited, so as to verify the efficicy of end-point assaying for treatment purposes,,,why it works and how it works. This will also more clearly describe how induction and loss if oral tolerance occurs&#8230;hopefully leading to a better understanding of why it occurs so perhaps it can be avoided.From my vantage point 2004 should see some "amazing confirmations of controversial aspects" of the so called IBS.Gotta go to da show!







MNL


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

FYI Digestion. 2003;67 4:225-33. Related Articles, Links Role of alimentation in irritable bowel syndrome.Dapoigny M, Stockbrugger RW, Azpiroz F, Collins S, Coremans G, Muller-Lissner S, Oberndorff A, Pace F, Smout A, Vatn M, Whorwell P.Service de Gastroenterologie, Hotel-Dieu, Clermont-Ferrand, France.BACKGROUND: Different food items are made responsible for irritable bowel syndrome IBS symptoms, but the physiopathology of IBS remains unclear. AIMS: During a meeting in Nice, France, experts of the European Working Team of the IBiS Club discussed selected data regarding the relationships between alimentation, food items including fibers and IBS symptoms. METHODS/RESULTS: Food allergy remains a difficult diagnosis, but medical and general history, presence of general symptoms such as skin rash, and hypersensitivity tests may help in achieving a positive diagnosis. On the other hand, food intolerance is more confusing because of the subjectivity of the relationship between ingestion of certain foods and the appearance of clinical symptoms. Different food items which are commonly implicated in adverse reactions *mimicking* IBS were found to be stimulants for the gut, suggesting that patients with predominant diarrhea IBS have to be carefully questioned about consumption of different kinds of food i.e., coffee, alcohol, chewing gum, soft drinks and not only on lactose ingestion. Gas production is discussed on the basis of retention of intestinal gas as well as on malabsorption of fermentable substrates. The role of a large amount of this kind of substrate reaching the colon is suggested as a potential mechanism of IBS-type symptoms in overeating patients. Regarding the role of fiber in IBS, the expert group concluded that fibers are not inert substances and that they could trigger pain or bloating in some IBS patients. CONCLUSION: Despite numerous reviews on this subject, it is very difficult to give general dietary advice to IBS patients, but dieteticians may have a positive role in managing such patients. Copyright 2003 S. Karger AG, BaselPMID: 12966230Curr Gastroenterol Rep. 2003 Aug;5 4:331-6. Related Articles, Links Current insights into the pathophysiology of irritable bowel syndrome.Schwetz I, Bradesi S, Mayer EA.Center of Neurovisceral Sciences and Women's Health, CURE: Digestive Diseases Research Center, David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA, VAGLAHS, Bldg. 115, Room 223, 11301 Wilshire Boulevard, Los Angeles, CA 90073, USA. emayer###ucla.eduRecent reports have emphasized the possible role of mucosal immune activation and inflammation in neuropathic changes in the pathophysiology of irritable bowel syndrome IBS. However, novel findings using functional brain imaging techniques have underlined the importance of altered perception of visceral stimuli to symptom generation in IBS. These new developments have rekindled an old debate on peripheral versus central mechanisms in the pathophysiology of IBS. In this review we discuss the latest findings in light of these two concepts. In addition, we provide evidence for the hypothesis that, in the absence of alterations in endogenous pain modulation systems and changes in visceral perception, chronic inflammatory mucosal changes in the gut are not a plausible mechanism to explain the presence of chronic abdominal pain, a cardinal IBS symptom.PMID: 12864964


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

American Gastroenterological AssociationAGA technical review on irritable bowel syndrome http://www2.us.elsevierhealth.com/scripts/...1650850200481X&


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## california123 (Jun 8, 2003)

Eric,Great article. Thanks so much for providing the link. Take care.


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## california123 (Jun 8, 2003)

Eric,I forgot to say you might want to post this on a new thread, since it might get lost under the exisitng heading. Just a thought. Thanks again.


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## Susan Purry (Nov 6, 2001)

> quote:In IBS, an immune response to infection,[30] a disinhibition of the immune system during chronic sustained stress (Fig. 1), or a combination of both are plausible mechanisms that could result in the initial immune activation. The persistence of low-grade inflammation after pathogen clearance or after resolution of the psychosocial stressor, in a subset of individuals, may be related to an inability to efficiently downregulate the inflammatory response. This inability may be related to genetic factors or to early programming of antiinflammatory systems, such as the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal (HPA).[


BINGO! At least, for me... Thanks for posting that Medscape article eric, that was informative reading.And MikeNL, good to hear about developments...


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

Today is 90 days and ibsacol is still working. But two days ago I ate a coconut that looked healthy but it was slightly fermented (mold/fungus) inside. i should have thrown it out but instead i ate it. 4 hours later all the symptoms were in full gear. It took 36 hours for my body to settle down.something is still wrong and i need to figure it out. Even though there has been massive improvement I am not satisfied. i need to know if it is a virus, mycobacterium, parasite, bacteria, genetics, or something else that has my immune system in a disordered and highly reactive state.Mold/fungus causes some of the biggest problems. Therefore it could have been a yeast overgrowth that has screwed up my immune system.since I am taking CMO on top of the ibsacol my lungs and breathing are better than ever. i am wondering if i might quicken my recovery by going on a megadose of ibsacol. i am thinking 48 per day. although, i would hate to get "stuck" at that level. that would be very expensive.


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## alan-h (Sep 17, 2003)

Thanks Kel and Dianne (and others) for all the messages and updates regarding Ibsacol.My wife has been going through near hell the last four months







with bloating, severe cramps, constipation to diarrhea and back again and we have decided to give Ibsacol a try!!







Could either of you let me know what herbs etc she should take along with Ibsacol to give her the best chance of some freedom?Dianne: You come across as a very straight-talker (even though you are a director of Ibsacol and have a vested interest) and I will quite happily take your word for the answer to this question - do you believe Ibsacol has a reasonable chance of helping my better half with the symptoms I mentioned?Kel: Again, just wanted to thank you for all the information you have posted which has helped me get over my skeptical approach to all things I have not heard of before and cost money to try...Regards to you both (and all other sufferers - good luck on finding some freedom from this nightmare)from the UK!All the very best,Alan.


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## wlwoodma (Jun 16, 2003)

alan-hIbsacol takes some time to work so have your wife keep taking whatever herbs/medicine/dietary stuff like fiber she uses to lessen her symptoms anyway. The ibsacol folk are pretty good at answering your questions however I think sometimes they don't realize how complicated a IBSer's routine can be!The only problem I had at first was you need to take the ibsacol on an empty stomach so it took me awhile to figure out how to schedule it into my regular routine for fiber, eating, tea drinking etc. Also, if I drink too much water that can trigger an ibs attack. What I do is this, the very first thing in the morning I take my morning dose of 4 with just enough water to get it down, then shower, get dressed and then have my metamucil, breakfast by which time about 30 minutes have passed. I used to do the fiber first thing but was worried about it interferring with the ibsacol absorption. Then about 30 minutes later I have my morning green tea. This is also sort of a drag because I need some caffiene to wake up but the ibsacol folks say to have at least an hour between taking the pills and caffeine.Then thruout the day I drink as much water as possible, I even bought a special water container that holds a whole liter and is easily cleaned. The afternoon dose and evening dose were easier for me to fit in.Now I am pretty close to be as normal as non-IBS folk which is the best I had ever hoped for. I have been taking it for a little bit over a month.SG


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

alan,how long has your wife suffered from IBS --you say that it has been severe the past 4 months, but did it start years earlier?this whole thing is completely baffling. I can not make heads or tails of it. for example, why was i perfect on July 11th and 12th? I had persistalsis on those days. I have only had peristalsis 7 days out of the last 9 months. If i don't use a suppository then i suffer. Fleet enemas every 2nd or 3rd day can also be a great assist. However, during july (for 2 weeks) when i was on a real good streak i did not even need them.looking at my notes, i think that maybe the clay might have really helped me. i don't understand why i need to take the antibacterial/fungal/parasitic herbs. I can probably eliminate half of them but i don't know which half.Maybe there is something in my colon like staphylococcus aureus and it has grown to a greater degree or proportion than what the average person can tolerate. maybe my bacteria is normal but my immune system is creating an exagerated response. However, my CDSA did say that i have intestinal dysbiosis despite excellent levels of acidophilus. Maybe my body attacks the "good" bacteria????I am completely baffled by everything. even though i have finally found extreme relief, it still drives me crazy that i have to be so incredibly cautious and regimented with everything. as far as i am concerned, i am still suffering from --"IBS of unknown mechanism."is it a pathogen or did a long series of potentially, very dangerous vaccinations alter my body's immune system???? was it the idiot medical establishment that allowed women to think it was perfectly okay to feed their babies cow's milk and corn syrup straight out of the womb??? (hey, the formula makers need the money -- they have salaries to pay and profits to report ---- profits first!!!).is it a virus that is stealthly causing mass chaos???My suspicion is that westernized eating and westernized medical practices is somehow behind my problems.alan,if you try it i hope it works. i believe that MNL is correct when he says that multimodal therapies will increase the chances for success. I am living proof of that. when i first started the ibsacol (my first trial which i ended up thinking that ibsacol was a failure), it did not do anything until the 6th day. the night prior to me having perfect stool formation ---i had given myself an enema and i had cooked up a mega-batch of my herbs plus i took a single clove of raw crushed garlic. the next day --presto- i was normal, and i continued to follow that routine until i quit taking the ibsacol and then i slowly (over 3 to 4 weeks) trailed off to my old lousy self.i had taken about 4 heavy doses of the herbs sporadically over the preceeding 3 weeks (preceeding the 6th day of Ibsacol), so it is possible that i had already reduced some "not-so-friendly" bacteria.the point is that i have a sneaky suspicion that IBSACOL WOULD NOT HAVE WORKED UNLESS I TOOK THE HERBS AND GARLIC. i have a lot of evidence that that is the case. a few times, i would take an antifungal medicine like lamisil or diflucan and it would "JUMPSTART" me. but the effect would only last 1, 2 or 3 days. therefore, i think that the herbs and garlic may have given me the same "jumpstart", but this time i was using Ibsacol ----and this was able to give the ibsacol enough "room" to do its work.p.s. the herbs and garlic actually made me have diarrhea in the beginning --- if you try them --be patient. the odds are that if they cause trouble then that is very likely a good sign. also, i am a firm believer in probiotics. i have been taking them everyday for 9 months straight.


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## alan-h (Sep 17, 2003)

Hi SG, Hi Kel,Thanks very much for the information and good wishes  My better half (Tessa) wants me to pass on how much she appreciates your time.My wife has other problems - namely underactive thyroid and polysistic ovaries - and so we are not massively sure how long she has actually been suffering from IBS??We have just noticed - well, could not have failed to notice what has been happening to her over the last four months!Another factor is that we have two children under three as well as being foster parents (between 1 and 3 children also living with us from ages 0 to 16...) and when she has the cramps badly, she is not able to do a lot and then feels very tired afterwards.Kel: Could you name the anti-fungal and anti-bacterial herbs mentioned on every posting?? I want to be sure they are readily available over here before I order from Ibsacol.Thanks again. This is the first time we have felt we are attacking the problem rather than seeing what the problem brings us














All the best to you both and I hope your recoveries are lifelong!!!!Alan


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

alan,i think they are listed on pg 2 (or maybe pg 30 of this thread. i know that i am having a very mild allergic reaction to one of them. either lemon balm which is a minor ingredient in my olive leaf herb (solaray), or myrhh which is in the parafactors formula. I think that grapefruit seed extract is the most economical. the garlic is potent but causes an odor problem (although it seems to have been reduced with continued use). raw onion is very powerful.


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## california123 (Jun 8, 2003)

Hi Alan h,With all the activity in your house, and lots of responsiblity for your wife, have you considered whether stress/anxiety is causing her IBS problems? I had chronic D for six months and nothing worked. Then I did some reading on anxiety and found "digestive" problems could often be caused by too much stress. Anti-anxiety drugs stopped the D in 48 hours. Now also on an anti-depressant/anti-anxiety med and I feel back to normal. My parents both have dementia and I'm responsible for them, so believe me I know stress. Just a thought and another approach. Take care and good luck for your wife.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

Well, I am glad you are back --D.I am having trouble. However, despite the trouble that I am having I still endorse ibsacol. It is by far the most powerful thing that i have ever used to try and gain control over my "IBS". Also, it is the only thing that has given me 3 months of relief. Most everything has been a complete failure, a few things gave me 24 hours of relief, and a few things gave me a few days of relief. Therefore, i can definitely say that ibsacol is targeting the problem ------but....But, i can get toppled. In the past, i could get toppled in a matter of 8 hours. Now, it takes much longer; but, nonetheless, I am still getting toppled.i am not sure what knocked me out of remission but i have several suspicions. I was trying a program that tries to correct a "possible" saccharide deficiency (due to metabolic conditions or various factors). I think that apple pectin might have set me off. Could have been the psylium, aloe (non-whole leaf), arabinogalactans, modified citrus pectin, guar gum (only 2 small doses and i abandoned it), or it could have been the beta glucans or the mushrooms.i eliminated all of them yesterday, but today and yesterday have been my worst 2 days since May. All of my symptoms came back except the asthma. (CMO and Ibsacol has just about cured me of a life-long asthma condition!)things were so bad today that i had to give myself 4 enemas to get everything out of my colon. an empty colon seems to be the KEY to me feeling normal (relatively symptom free). Dr. Fine says, "when all else fails, eliminate the immunogenic source (the stool)".I think that my condition resembles Crohn's and UC. Crohn's has been theorized as an extreme immune reaction to intestinal bacteria. the bacteria may or may not be pathogenic, but there seems to be an exagerated response. Also, crohn's has been linked to an exagerated response to food.it seems to me that i meet both conditions. Some foods cause me to develop mouth ulcers (i am probably also developing ulcers in my intestines).And, it is obvious that when i eliminate my stool i experience great symptom relief. the question is.... is this due to an immune system that is 100% at fault (either genetic foulup or a "bad" vaccination reaction---measles of the gut, or some other reason) ......or is my immune system reacting in a rational manner due to the very real presence of pathogenic bacteria such as large amounts of staphylococcus aurius or some other bacteria or fungus?Mold and fungus seems to give me some of the most violent reactions.i restarted VSL#3 today. i think that some of the probiotics that i was taking are dead. I could not get them to ferment in the presence of FOS. Hopefully this will help me get back on track.Right now i feel great because my colon is empty and i fasted the entire day. i will know by friday if I am back on track.However, i am not happy. I need to either add another drug to my regimen such as Pentasa (for crohn's) or Prednisone (immunosuppressant). i figure it can't hurt to try. If these drugs put me into total remission then my hunch will be correct (my hunch is that my type of "IBS" is a distant cousin of IBD - "disease"......or i need to give the famous/infamous donor-fecal transplant procedure a try.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

Things actually normalized somewhat today (i am at about 75%). i thought that i had cleaned myself out yesterday, but apparantly i did not. But i am breathing easier today due to passing stool that was very close to normal in volume with excellent form. The problem is that there is very little peristalsis going on. i might have to try some zelnorm.One other problem, even though the stool is normal, i still feel sick when it is in me. This pretty much confirms my theory that my colon/immune system is reacting in a highly exagerated manner to my bacteria/stool.This is going to be a major focus for me from here on out.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

Still -- very poor peristalsis, but today was the best day out of the last 12 to 14 days. I had large volume and excellent form.I think my 1 day fast really helped matters. I think my immune system needed the break.it is also possible that my return to VSL#3 (probiotic) has helped.i also think that shelving the fibers played a role especially the apple pectin. Elaine Gottschall wrote an excellent book on controlling symptoms by removing all sources of amylopectin from the diet. this includes almost all grains and fruit --both of which cause horrible problems for me.I continue to take 12 Ibsacol per day even though i am well beyond the loading phase. i am afraid to reduce my dose. This is the only thing that has given me any type of remission beyond a few days.i am taking the antibacterial/ fungal herbs every day now instead of every 2nd or 3rd day. i think that it was a wise suggestion. i still think that i am allergic to one of them which is why i thought it would be better to go on a 4 day interval. However, i think that every day exposure to a small amount will help my body adjust to the allergen better than shocking it every 4th day.Mentally i feel great again. My nervous symptoms always settle down when my bowel function operates efficiently. I am not perfect but it is a great relief. as i sit here and type i am aware that my lungs are completely devoid of any tightness --this makes breathing effortless. usually it is a constant fight to get a good breath. Also, my sinuses are close to perfect -- no inflammation. the sinus inflammation corresponds perfectly with the state of my intestines. Any exagerated immune activity that takes place in my colon and small intestines is also going to provoke my lungs, sinuses, nervous system, and even my circulation (cold extremities).i still need to get to the source of the problem. treating symptoms with VSL#3 and ibsacol and multiple other supplements is going to drive me to the poor house. yesterday, i had my first appointment with a professional homeopath/accupuncture/oriental herbal medicine doctor. results may take months but i strongly suspect that some positive changes will happen based on my research and home experiments.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

Yesterday there was decent stool formation but there was also a lot of mucous/bowel tissue. i also did not feel good. Today was different. today, i passed perfectly formed and high-volume stool with minimal mucous. in the past, i never passed normal stool no matter what i did.I also feel much better today than yesterday. apparently when i pass a lot of mucous there must be some type of immune activation because i am always fatigued and experience other symptoms when it happens.the only thing i did differently was take an extra VSL#3 and 4 extra ibsacol. i am hoping that taking extra VSL#3 will put me into long term remission from this dreadful curse.however, i strongly suspect that in the long run there is no hope for me (but i secretly never truly give up hope). it will be an endless battle trying to control symptoms. it will end when i no longer have the desire to fight or the money to finance the symptom controlling supplements.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

well, i just discovered and developed a new food intolerance --chlorella. I have been taking chlorella since August and it really seemed to make a huge difference in mercury removal. After taking large quantities my mercury levels were reduced by more than 1/2. But, 2 weeks ago I started to get D and i could not figure out why. i also kept getting sinus inflammation.Today was a very good day for me (despite some D). therefore, i tested a large quantity of chlorella on myself and sure enough --45 minutes later i was completely congested. I expect diarrhea tomorrow.this is absolutely disgusting. My body continues to reject almost everything that i feed it. my immune system still seems to be stuck in an upregulated state. i am afraid that Ibsacol --as powerful and effective as it is-- is not capable of reversing my immune dysfunction.it is either due to damaging vaccines, MAP (mycobacterium paratuberculosis), or some freak genetic screwup.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

Today i started steroids --hydrocortisone. i am going to try and keep the dose low. So far i have developed mouth ulcers. they might be due to the hydrocortisone.i passed normal stool today with minimal mucous. I felt decent most of the day, but there still seems to be too much immune activation. Within 15 minutes of outdoor exposure my head gets floaty and sinuses inflame.i think it is a mold allergy, and i think this could possibly explain a mechanism whereby inhaled allergens can set off body-wide symptoms.i shared my mycobacterium paratuberculosis theory with my doctor and he seems very interested. he also took interest in the Ibsacol again. he told me that i am finished with the mercury chelation. that is incredible because that stuff was a nightmare. it caused horrible shaking and nervousness. My brain is functioning better than in a long time --coincidence??? No. However, i still have brain dysfunction when my gut gets activated and i am spilling tissue and mucous into the toilet bowl.I am going to get incredibly strict again. No more chlorella. also, i guess i have to continue my 3 bean diet.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

i abandoned the steroids after only a couple of doses. i think i can beat this thing without them.the last 12 days have been up and down. Things are good right now --- in fact they are better than ever. i am being treated by a professional homeopath and i am almost convinced that this method of healing is valid. some very weird and positive things have been going on with me ever since i took the first dose. (flux is WRONG!!!! ...and so was I. I had also come to the incorrect assumption that homeopathy was worthless. But, upon extensive research and conversations with practioners and others have i learned that "energy-medicine" has a valid application)ibsacol seems to still work despite giving out now and then. my immune system is so hypersensitive that it can get provoked by almost anything i eat or breath. i need to continue to learn about "immune modulation", and discover other methods of accomplishing it in addition to using ibsacol.dianne, back in July i was able to incorporate a much wider variety of foods before i finally crashed. i am wondering if quitting ibsacol for a short while and then resuming could benefit me. i read the book by Dr Douglas Hunt (U. of California ) and he is probably the biggest proponant of fatty acid ester immune modulation. he speaks of "shocking" the immune system with ibsacol/CMO. Could it be that i need to "re-shock" my system? ....or do the fatty acids stick around the body for very long periods of time thereby preventing this strategy. ...something for me to think about.maybe i don't need to tinker with it. afterall, this morning i passed an extremely large volume of stool. this is something that i have not done in 20 years. however, i am just as likely to run into trouble 3 or 4 days from now. Also, eventually my body is going to start rejecting the mung, black, and aduki beans. if that happens then i am permanantly screwed. There has to be a way to permanantly down-regulate my abnormal immune response and make me normal like the majority of people. maybe the answer is EPD, but our evil government has decided to ban it due to ridiculous reasons. ...such as, "the $30 million of testing has not been performed". i may have to go to canada where the gov't makes a little more sense.


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## PatSimp89 (Feb 26, 2003)

Kel, i have to echo your success with this product. I have been using it for about 1 year now and it has helped me considerably. From time to time I still run into problems but then they seem to work themselves out.I have noticed that my latest batch of ibsacol tastes very different than any previous batch. The batch number is B:954136.I am wondering if the manufacturing plant has made a mistake. I am very much dependant on this product for relief and if it is tainted then i am in trouble. Have you noticed any difference in your Ibsacol?


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## dianne (Jan 16, 2000)

Hi Pat .. our processes are so stringently controlled in a licensed pharmaceutical facility, I don't think you should worry. However -- if you're still concerned, please email me and I'll try to help in any way I can.kind wishesdianneFor the record, I am a founding director of the New Zealand company that developed and produces Ibsacol.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

dianne,i decided to have ibsacol analyzed by a local lab. the cost will be around $200.00 but i am willing to pay it. i need to know what this stuff is. it is driving me crazy not knowing. i have come up with several possible clues based on some detective work. i really think that it is very similar to CMO even though you state that it is not. i know that CMO is monounsaturated. i am guessing that since ibsacol comes from a tropical plant that it is probably fully saturated. (warm weather plants usually are saturated) i am also guessing that it is medium chain, and i am also guessing that cetyl alcohol is the other half of the molecule.my best guess is that it is a combination of cetyl laurate and cetyl myristate. there might also be some cetyl palmitate (from palm oil) or even some cetyl oleate.i would like to know how your team came to discover that the saturated version of this chemical was superior to the monounsaturated version??? i think that cetyl myristate would have a greater liklihood of being able to inactivate certain viruses. is this the case??? this is all very fascinating. i think that your company could end up being on the forefront of a major revolution in medicine. however, since medicine is dominated by the almighty buck (dollar), this knowledge will be all but ignored. What a shame. (it would be interesting to see how this product would perform against MS --multiple sclerosis or other immune problems such as lupus or psoriasis.)(p.s. Pat Simp, yes there is a big difference in the taste. the first several bottles were tasteless, but the latest bottle has a strange taste. however, it continues to work so i am not too concerned.)


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## dianne (Jan 16, 2000)

Hi kel .. if you contact me directly, maybe I can save you the money you want to spend ! We know lots we can't talk about publicly at this time, some of it for all the reasons you mention. Also, re the taste ? I will check into it thoroughly and be back to you -- have to wait until after our weekend though as it's Friday late afternoon already here.Kel .. please contact me when you can.Kind wishesdianne


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## dianne (Jan 16, 2000)

Hi Kel .. a concern I have is that the 'local' lab may not be accurate enough and the last thing I want to see is any further dis-information about our wonderful product. It is not CMO; it is not related. If you will please contact me and I can give you somewhere intelligent to search for some information you might enjoy to read. Some further thoughts for you ...1. I think you will do much better with your regime of anti-fungals etc if you do at least some of them every single day; this is how good naturopaths and herbalists advise to use them. I think using them every four days or so causes you more problems as whatever it is, gets time to "rebuild" again. I would choose a reliable group of them and use them consistently. ( And I'm happy to help with advice re. which ones, if you like.) 2. Kel -- Please do not use internet advice about CMO to change your Ibsacol doses. Please do not shock your system the way they suggest; and please, do not take massive doses such as 40 a day as you suggest. Please use Ibsacol exactly as we suggest for you. And I really believe if you can use the antifungals in a steady manner, your results could be better and more stable.3. There is another innovative natural product I think could help you; I'm trying to get some now for you. It will help you, in a very gentle but thorough way, and support everything the Ibsacol is doing for you. Please do contact me so I can try to help you.kind thoughtsDianneFor the record, I am a founding director of the New Zealand company that developed and produces Ibsacol.


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## dianne (Jan 16, 2000)

> quote: or other immune problems such as lupus or psoriasis.)


Hi Kel .. I believe these are commonly held to be auto-immune dysfunction, not immune ?


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

thank you, i appreciate any help that is offered. i have been taking the herbal antibacterial/fungals every evening for almost a month now and it does seem to work out much better.i do not plan on taking a large dose; i do not think it would help. besides, i am back to normal again. a very strict diet seems to fix me every time. a one day fast definitely returns me to normal. Prior to taking Ibsacol I was literally screwed up 365 days out of the year. i should not complain about having problems once or twice a week but i am because i want to be perfect every day and be able to eat a wide range of foods.therefore, i need more help.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

i spoke too soon. yesterday afternoon i started to get some of my symptoms. however, they were very subtle, but I knew something was up. by 6pm i passed stool that was low volume and contained mucous. by the evening i had diarrhea. I am 98% convinced that it was due to eating a cup of almonds on the previous day. i have suspected almonds for a long time but they never seemed to cause really bad problems despite the fact they registered as a +1 on my elisa test.i guess i need to cross them off my list and return to my ridiculous 3 bean rotation diet. when these foods give out i am a goner. i wonder how long i can survive on fat? fat is about the only thing that does not affect me except for restaurant fat.the interesting thing is that yesterday was actually a good day compared to how i felt most of my life. however, because i am finally feeling normal due to ibsacol ---when i have a setback, i really feel it. i no longer have tolerance for suffering now that i have had a taste of what it is like to feel normal (bowel and brain).


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

for 3 months now, i have had a fairly dramatic shift in the way my brain functions. it happened about the 3rd or 4th week of taking ibsacol. however, there were a couple of other reasons why my brain may have normalized. a doctor/psychiatrist by the name of Gabriel Cousens M.D. claims that a certain blue green algae can normalize brain wave activity for mild cases (this was me). i started taking this product about 12 days before my last dose of an anti-epileptic drug. i took this drug for 7 years. i also was 2/3rds of the way through mercury chelation.i have always suspected that it was the algae that fixed my brain. i also gave strong credit to the mercury chelation, but at the same time I also told everyone (including both my doctors) that it very well could have been the ibsacol that did it.i quit the algae 16 days ago and so far things are still holding steady. i guess it will take a long time for me to figure this one out. the only thing i can do is go off the ibsacol for a long period of time and see if the condition returns. however, i do not want to do that so i won't.i know that EFA's can have a good effect on brain wave dysfunction but all studies show that they are very weak which is why we end up on drugs. EFA's (ess fatty acids) probably function in a similar manner as the fatty acid esters found in ibsacol but ibsacol is probably many times stronger. i am really wondering if ibsacol could have done it. it seems to make a lot of sense to me that this could be the sole reason for my improved sleep and "quieter" mind. simply amazing!!!!!!simply amazing!!!!but problems remain. i am not satisfied yet.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

today, i am back to normal again. yesterday all i ate was mung bean (and a few walnuts---an iffy food). truly baffling.normalcy used to be beyond my wildest imagination.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

Yesterday I passed normal stool and then an hour later i passed a small amount of loose stool. This has been happening lately. i will pass normal stool followed a few hours later by some loose stool. it is not really a bad thing because i usually feel much better when my colon is working ---even if it is overactive i will feel better. however, when my colon is dead --no peristalsis-- that is when everything gets bad --- my brain is spacey and i feel very unmotivated.yesterday I fasted the whole day except at around 11pm i ate a small amount of shredded coconut and 2 tablespoons of tapioca flour mixed with some almond oil and 5 drops of stevia. For me --this is a luxury meal. it tasted like honey compared to my ridiculous 3 bean diet.however, prior to eating it I had some more loose stool around 10 pm. after passing it i felt truly great the rest of the night. this loose stool perfectly explains why I felt a little "off" during the late afternoon and evening. apparently there was some type of immune activation going on. i felt a little bit dizzy and lacked sharpness --also a bit nervous.this morning i also passed diarrhea, but i did not feel sick before it happened and that is usually the case. And i feel great after it left and i feel great right now. i guess i will have to give up walnuts for a good long time. i had not eaten them in about 4 months so i probably should have expected problems.the interesting thing is that i had a great night of sleep again last night. i am paying more and more attention to my sleep and i could be wrong but it is very possible that ibsacol is slowly correcting some type of problem that i have with regards to my sleep.there is still a chance that the removal of high levels of lead and mercury is what has helped me --- i am not sure though.however, ibsacol would explain the sleep phenomena perfectly -- if it holds true. if fatty acid ester immune modulation can correct the immune system ----- then it would be easy to see how it might positively affect my hypothalamus, pituitary, and other structures of my brain either by direct or indirect action.it is very possible that just quieting the immune system gives my brain a "break". in fact there was an interesting article in "the scientist.com".it was about the role of Prostaglandin E2 and how it causes brain problems anytime there is some type of bodily immune activation. i think that Ibsacol purports to lower this prostaglandin.it makes me wonder if all of my years of sleep disturbance was a result of a whacked out immune system. the other theory that i have is that these fatty acid esters are incorporated into the brain cell lipid layer and somehow or another it is capable of stabilizing cellular activity.i can not be certain of anything yet -- other than the fact that i am well beyond 100% that ibsacol has done some amazing things for my screwed up intestinal problems.the other explanation for why ibsacol could be improving brain function is because they function in a similar manner as EFA's (essential fatty acids). Dr hunt claims that the esters can be a hundred times more powerful than the EFA's. if this is true then that could explain it.simply amazing!eric, i am fairly certain that the issue of prostaglandins is every bit as important (and even more so) than the serotonin system which seems to be under the control of prostaglandins.


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