# Raynaud's Disease



## Guest (Sep 22, 1999)

Does anyone who has IBS (D type) also have Raynaud's Disease (upon getting cold the fingers lose color and feel numb)? ------------------


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## Guest (Sep 22, 1999)

Unfortunate for me, not only do I have ibs, but I also have symptoms of Sle, (systematic lupus arithmatosis). Though in males, it is not a severe as women often have. With my joint pain, I have suffered from cold fingers and toes. My Doc says that is one of seven symptoms they look for when trying to dignose SLE. Which is very difficult to pin down. Its took many many test to finally determine that I had SLE and IBS. But, there appear to be many other causes for cold fingers and such. Do not assume its Raynauds syndrom yet. Have your Doc do some research and get second and third opinions. Hope this helps alittle.


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## Guest (Sep 22, 1999)

I have horrid circulation in my hands/fingers as well as my feet/toes. I had to go for nerve and muscle testing and everything, but nothing showed up on the tests. My fingers and hands get all purple and blotchy and freezing! Good for putting on peoples necks and backs!!!!







I think I have a broken thermonitor!!!!! In the summer I sweat to death, but I get cold so easily and it takes me forever to warm up! I think my doctor mentioned once that I have very little fat-content in my body...I think that has something to do with it......?I'm actually freezing to death as I write this! I have goosebumps and my fingers and nose are froze!!!! The office still has the airconditioning on or something!I forgot to mention that I'm also IBS-D type!!------------------*Michelle* [This message has been edited by Squish (edited 09-22-1999).]


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## Guest (Sep 23, 1999)

I used to have a major problem with cold fingers, and I have a strawberry birthmark on my little finger on my right hand that would turn purple (no exageration), along with my nail beds, all the time. I was never diagosed with SLE or Raynauds or anything else, other than IBS. Then, back in April I went on a low carbohydrate diet, and I haven't been cold like that ever since (it's nothing to do with the weather - I'm usually indoors and it can be 80 degrees in the house and I would still feel cold). I don't know why - but there it is.Debbie


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## Guest (Sep 23, 1999)

Hi MarieM, yes I have IBS-D (about 15 years), and also Raynaud's (10 years). The first time I noticed it was when I stopped at a grocery store after work in the winter. My hands are always cold (everyone tells me, ugh). My finger felt funny, tingly, took of my gloves, and all fingers were completely grey/white to the second knuckle. I took off for home, and put in warm water, and massaged them. Scared me to death. My toes turn white also. DR says I have strong circulation, but when I get chilled....! What about you?PS Just a thought, how many of us are petite? I'm 5'2" and about 102 lbs. I don't think I have enough insulation ... I get cold very fast, but takes me forever to get too hot!------------------Take Care...Kathy[This message has been edited by Casey (edited 09-22-1999).]


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## WellWisher (Dec 15, 2004)

Casey: I'm petite also ~~ 5'2" and 95 lbs. I'm the same weight now at age 52 that I was in high school. About 8 years ago the dr thought I had Raynauds because two of my toes would turn blue, feel hot to the touch, and tingle during cold temps (below 30 degrees). He prescribed some heart-type medication to aid circulation, but when I read literature with the side effects listed, I decided (on my own) to throw it out and never took it.It cleared up the following winter, so it's unclear whether the proper diagnosis was made originally.


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## Guest (Sep 23, 1999)

Casey, I'm also 5'2" 102 lbs! We probably don't have enough insulation! I get cold really easily and it takes me forever to get warm again too! A lot of the time my boyfriend will rub my feet to try to get them warm again, and it's almost an impossible task! Really the only way is to soak them in hot water for a while (but I like getting the foot rub!)I think I have bad circulation too because I lose body heat like crazy, I can feel my temperature drop! Also my normal temperature isn't 98.6 degrees like it's supposed to be, it's 96.8 degrees! Does anybody else have a lower body temperature?------------------*Michelle* [This message has been edited by Squish (edited 09-23-1999).]


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## Guest (Sep 23, 1999)

Casey & Squish,I am also thin - 5'6" and weigh 110lbs. I know I don't have enough insulation but can't gain weight although I'm trying since getting my IBS under control. My temperature is also low and also blood pressure is low. Live in Dallas area and love the hot summers but hate winter. All grocery stores are so cold here with air conditioning that I wear a jacket when grocery shopping. And it's when my body gets cold that I can feel the fingers starting to get numb. Buy some of those little heat packs (like hunters use in winter) from Home Depot to carry around in the winter time to warm my hands - slip them in my gloves. They work pretty good.MarieM.------------------


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## zigmissus (May 19, 1999)

Drs. have been telling me I'm "borderline" for a whole bunch of things for years. They use words like "maybe" Raynaud's, "indicative of" SLE or "resembles" Crohns. I get the numbness and tingling, but not the blue fingers. I get rashes and have a high ANA & SED rates and sometimes test positive for smooth-muscle & DNA auto-antibodies, but not the anti- Smith or RO seen in lupus. Sometimes my IBS is so bad they say it has to be Crohn's, but there's never anything visible when they scope. I'm so borderline, I probably need a green card.


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## Guest (Sep 24, 1999)

Hey all,I'm pretty small too! 4'8" and 100 lbs, to be exact! Of course, 100 lbs isn't thin for my height, but before I went on a low-carb diet, I was 20 lbs heavier than I am now, and that's when I had the problems with being cold all the time, so I don't know if being petite explains it in my case.Debbie


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## Guest (Sep 24, 1999)

MarieM,I have a really low blood pressure too! That might cause poor circulation! It also causes me to get light headed and "black out" if I get up to quickly!Most people have the problem of trying to lower their blood pressure...how do you raise it?







not that I would want to that! I know what you mean about the grocery stores! In the middle of the summer I have to bring a big sweater with me...I look like an idiot, but hey...I'm warm!!!!!!Those little heat packets are such a good idea! I still have some left over from skiing last winter (I don't kow if they are still good!) I can just carry one around with me and if I get way too cold then I can break it out!!!!------------------*Michelle*


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## Guest (Sep 24, 1999)

Hey, I have the same problem. Cold hands & feet, height 5'4", weight 92lbs & low blood pressure. I usually wear sock all year long to bed at night or I can't sleep from cold feet. I had physical therapy for my elbow & the therapist couldn't get over how cold my hands were & suggested Raynauds. I told my Dr. but he didn't want to even bother with me. I have a lava heat pack that I bought at Walmart. You can get it in 2 forms. One type for slippers & the other like a pillow. Both heat up in the microwave. I carry my pillow around so much that my husband calls it "the baby". Ha! Ha! It's also great when IBS cramps come on. I also take it with me on long trips. Great to keep you extra warm in the car in winter. Maybe IBS is also a circulation problem?Glad to hear I'm not the only one with this problem!Birdie


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

I would believe that having colds and feet are probably indicative of good circulation before I would believe it to be caused by bad: you want your body warm. The hands and feet are secondary.


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## Guest (Sep 25, 1999)

flux, the hands and feet are never "secondary" when it comes to circulation...not unless you're a newborn infant...thats the only time cold hands/feet, or blue hands/feet are normal...ever...Is it secondary when diabetics suffer from poor circulation and loose a foot or a toe due to gangreen? To them I would think its not...just an example...


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## Guest (Sep 25, 1999)

I guess without being tested (if there is such a test) it would be hard to determine if one has Raynaud. Like I mentioned earlier, I have had my fingers and toes turn white/grey (not blue). My Dr. has tested my circulation and says its strong, also my blood pressure is great. I have always had cold hands as long as I can remember. I too am quite thin (always has been) and get chilled easily (no insulation). But I rarely ever get too hot. It hasn't been happening as much lately, maybe cause I'm in my 40's and am warming up







I don't think IBS is connected with this, but who knows!------------------Take Care...Kathy


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

Tired One, cold hands and feet can indeed be normal.The ideal is for the body to maintain body heat by keeping circulation high in the visceral organs. To do that, an efficient circulatory system can shut the precapillary sphincters in the extremities to shunt blood away from them because blood vessels close to surface in an extremity lose heat faster.This is part of normal temperature regulation in the body.Of course, as this is a regulatory mechanism, and the feet and hand temperature will vary as the body sees fit, but I suspect most people who refer to their cold hands and feet are probably seeing this perfectly normal mechanism in action and misintepreting it as poor circulation or as some disease process.I think you can test for Raynaudï¿½s quite easily. Put your hand in a freezer. If turns into all sorts of weird colors, see a doctor.


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## Wes and Tracy (Apr 14, 1999)

Do you recommend cutting the hand off first or just sitting with your arm in the deep freeze? Is there a time frame for this, I usually have to be at work by nine? Are there shades I should be looking for, I'm partial to Magenta?WesP.S. I'm pretty sure there is no such thing as a pre-capillary sphincter, that's a cute name though. Raynauds is caused by a nerve spasm in the digits of the extremities. The spasm affects the dilation of the blood vessels. The color change is do to the amount of oxygen in the digits, Blue (oxygen starved blood), White (lack of blood), Red (Re-flushing of the digit, this also brings that tingle sensation). Keep up the good work.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

Donï¿½t really know about the time several few minutes I imagine. Anyway, since you like fancy medical terms, these structures also go by the moniker arteriovenous anastomoses.I donï¿½t know what is meant by ï¿½nerve spasmï¿½, but the cause of Raynauds is not known nor is the mechanism well understood.


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## Guest (Sep 25, 1999)

Good one, Wes!!


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## Guest (Sep 25, 1999)

Just trying to get a little more insight on this. flux, if I try that freezer test, my whole body will change colours!







It doesn't necessarily have to be my hands/feet that are cold. Many times, they are well taken care of (good boots, warm gloves), it seems if "I" get a chill while out in the cold, then they start acting up. So I can see flux's point abit. But Wes's point about the amount of oxygen, lack of blood makes sense too. Would they not be connected somehow? Just wondering. ------------------Take Care...Kathy


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

There is certainly spasm of the blood vessels and the color changes due to changes in oxygen saturation, but that is the effect of the condition, not the final cause.


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## Guest (Sep 25, 1999)

Okay, last post, I'm not into this medical stuff







So what I'm getting is that to maintain good body heat (cause), the circulatory system controls the flow. Spasms/dilation decreases the blood flow to the extremities (effect). Thus taking from one to help the whole!So I must have a really good circulatory system!







Thanks!------------------Take Care...Kathy[This message has been edited by Casey (edited 09-25-1999).]


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

Yes, thatï¿½s it. In addition, heat from blood in the arteries going down the arms and legs is conducted to the cooler veins going back to the body (what is called countercurrent exchange), also adding to this effect.


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## Wes and Tracy (Apr 14, 1999)

No, I'm sorry to say, that is not it.Casey, Understand that there are two types of Raynauds, one is a disease the other is termed a phenomenon. If they don't know what the cause is it's called the disease, if they know what the cause is it's the phenomenon. And by the way, there ARE several known causes for the phenomenon despite what regurgitator boy thinks(honestly, if you can't find the proper information in that one manual on your desk Maurice, ask one of the doctors walking by if you can use one of their real medical encyclopedia's) . One being associated with diseases of the arteries like Artherosclerosis or rheumatoid arthritis or even systemic lupus. An incident could also happen after a repeating trauma like a vibration from typing or working a jack hammer or playing piano. You can also get secondary Raynaud's phenomenon from overdoses of ergot compounds or methysergide (highly unlikly but not impossible if you make your own rye bread at home.)As for the unknown causes of the disease they do know this, it is twice as likely to happen to a woman then a man and again twice as likely to a smoker then an non-smoker. You most likely have the phenomenon because the disease only affects 4 out of 10,000. Ready for the kicker?According to my research Raynauds can affect your fingers and toes as you know, but also your ears and nose, and the cause can be from........ A strong emotional reaction! Nothing I've read says you have to be feeling sad or mad or happy, but just that it could be the result of a strong emotion. Find yourself overstressing much? Maybe see if you can track a connection.Best of luck.Wes------------------Only those who risk going too far, will ever know how far they can go.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

The *true cause* of neither condition is known. There are inciting factors, but so what? How do they cause condition? We don't really know.Similarly, IBS is believed to be condition of heightened visceral hypersensitivity. Well, exactly how does that come about? We don't have very good answers for that either.


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## Ty (Mar 8, 1999)

I don't want to get into the last part of this thread... I'm just responding to those who also get the cold hands and feet:I don't think it has anything to do with low fat levels in your body or being petite. I'm of average height and weight - just as normal as you can get! I have the same problem - always have. Not only hands and feet, but my nose too! (anyone else?). Also, I'm like Squish - I get hot really easily and it takes me awhile to cool down. And it's just the same when I'm cold. My friends in high school teased me about being part lizard!







Ty


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## Wes and Tracy (Apr 14, 1999)

Whatever.


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## Guest (Sep 29, 1999)

I was diagnosed with Raynaud's Syndrome a year ago (always cold icy clammy purple hands feet, tingly), and I was officially diagnosed with IBS (alternating D and C) a couple months ago! That is so strange that so many other women get the same thing! Sometimes I feel like such a leper with my purple cold hands!I'm thin too, 5'4" and 104lbs. I lost 10 lbs. too a year ago. Nuts. Not even trying.Urr, this new anti spasm med. I'm on Dic...something makes me so dry (and C) and tired. Oh well, it works I guess.Oooh, i just discovered yesterday that I hyperventilate (I'm a music student in college and I had to watch my breathin). This may cause me to swallow a lot of air, and I'm wondering if the stress and this are inter connected. I am really tense, and I feel like I'm just getting tenser.WEll, it's reassuring to know other people suffer like me!!


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## Guest (Sep 29, 1999)

Does it mean you have Raynauds syndrome or phenomenon if your hands get painful (really hurt!) if they are exposed to the cold? I was washing lots of ice cold apples for several minutes yesterday and I had to stop because my hands hurt so bad. The fingertips seemed kind of white. The pain went away when I put my hands in warm water.


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## moldie (Sep 25, 1999)

I was diagnosed as being borderline Raynaud's when I was diagnosed with Fibromyalgia. I'm not sure I want that green card zigmissis. I don't think I want to cross that border! LOL!







My hands, feet, nose and ears get cold easily, take a long time to warm up, and turn pale or purplish. Mine hurt like that too Igd when exposed to something cold. Just picking stuff out of the freezer compartment in the store does that or driving in a cold car. I have to wear three layers of clothing in the winter. I often need a heating pad to warm up my feet at night in the winter or I have difficulty getting to sleep. Wearing socks to bed doesn't help. My feet just remain cold inside the socks. I have to have them warmed by the htg pad or my husband (poor guy). In the morning after being under the covers, I am toasty warm- and throw the covers off while he puts more on. It doesn't take me long to cool down though. (I'm 5'3" and weigh 110 lbs.) ------------------[This message has been edited by moldie (edited 09-29-1999).]


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## Guest (Sep 30, 1999)

i also have cold hands and feet a lot of the time and have noticed increased sensitivity when handling ice or even ice cold sodas or glasses. fingers just get white/splotchy red, never blue or purple, and return to normal color within a few seconds. mentioned to both my internist and dermatologist just today - the first said it could be the beginning of raynauds and that a lot of women get it and the second didnt think so - said it was probably vasoconstriction (word?) of the blood vessels and asked if i smoke. he said in raynauds the incident normally includes various colors and pain in the fingers, i think upon warming.


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## Wes and Tracy (Apr 14, 1999)

Raynauds does have multiple color change and tingling on the warming or flushing phase. You may not have Raynauds but you may be developing the phenomenon, research shows that afflictions of the blood vassels and circulatory system is a cause, have your blood checked and have your flow rate checked. That's where they take a pressure reading of a large artery to see if you have hardening. A change of diet or some simple meds could make a world of difference.Wes------------------Only those who risk going too far, will ever know how far they can go.


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## Guest (Sep 30, 1999)

I am 5'2" about 120 lbs, I have had very bad circulation of the hands, feet and legs, so bad, that they will go numb, and I am unable to move. I feel the cold immensely, I hate the winter, so much I do not want to go out side and I live in Australia. I have to sit on top of a heater or fire, and I must have a heating pad of some kind in my bed at night in the winter, otherwise I am unable to sleep. I believe crohns is related to the circulatory system, maybe the peripheral structure is lacking in some way.


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## Guest (Aug 29, 2000)

Hi, size has nothing to do with it. I am 5 foot 9 and weigh 118 pounds. I have IBS and was just dignosed with "Raynauds". I have the ice cold hand, feet, tingeling, but also have it in the chest as well. This is because I put off finding another Dr. after my first told me I was ok. Now it is severe Raynauds. ------------------"Take one day at a Time" The Lord will see you through.~Angel~


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## sickofsick (Nov 4, 1999)

I was diagnosed with Raynauds long before IBS. My Doctor described it as being an over reaction to cold. When you are chilled your body thinks you are freezing to death and cuts off the circulation to the non essential parts, fingers,toes ect. to keep it going to the heart and brain. I can stick my hand in the freezer with no ill effects however even in the summer if I get chilled(after swimming for example)some of my fingers, toes or both go completely white from the knuckle up. Putting heat directly on them does nothing, I must warm my whole body up before color and feeling come back. By the way I am not petite, 5'8 1/2. Thin but not too skinny so I don't think body fat or size makes a difference.sickofsick


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## Guest (Aug 31, 2000)

Yes, I have both. Although I get it in my hands and feet (only certain fingers and toes though, very uncomfortable, and often takes quite a while to return to normal colour and feeling!


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## Guest (Oct 22, 2000)

I was really impressed by Wes's comments. I was diagnosed with Raynauds Phen. in 1984. I also have the cold achy fingers and toes upon getting either cold. I am not nor have ever been underweight. I developed Lupus with the Raynauds and doctors told me that the cause could have been the diet. When I diet it is very strict.I have been fighting lession on the soles of my feet that become infected for the past 6 to 7 years. My doctors treat these lessions with antibiotics for around 6 to 7 months. The infection is very resistant to the antibiotics. Are these lessions caused by the Raynauds. I have read about pressure ulcers, but my doctors dont seem to want to give me anything definite. What is your opinion, Wes. Thanks


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## lilymaid (Jan 3, 1999)

I don't believe I have Raynaud's (sp?), because I don't have all the symptoms. However, when it's cold, it's really cold, and when it's hot, it's really hot. That's what it seems like to me. And when the temp dips below 60F, my fingernails turn purply-blue. If the room temp is below 70F, my hands and feet get icy cold.And, of course, my normal temp is not 98.6, but 97.3F. Which also happens to be the frequency of my favorite local radio station!







lol.Regards, Lilymaid


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## lilymaid (Jan 3, 1999)

Oh, and I'm not petite, as some other members have posted about themselves. I'm 5'9" and around 135-143 lbs. (dep. on how bad the IBS has been!).The only other time I feel really cold is when I'm getting hypoglycemic. My husband and friends typically use that as the meter as to when I really really need to eat although I say that I feel sick and don't want to.Regards, lilymaid


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## babydoc_au (Jan 26, 2000)

There seems to be just a wee bit of negativity floating around here - is this really necessary? Can't we all just get along?I emjoy an intelligent debate as much as the next man. Note the use of the word intelligent there.


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

Nothing but a comment and a brief "Case Study" to add to this interesting mix that keeps drifting back:The phsyiology of the peripheral-central circulatory system and reaction-response is exactly as Flux described. Yet this kind of knowledge and other "knowledge" that even the best medical minds possess can at times serve as a veil which separates the patient from an effective diagnosis of aberrant peripheral circulatory dysfunction and, of course, any other kind of seemingly inscrutable symptoms.My father, in the years before his death and among his several problems, developed the same complaints several people here attribute to normalcy, while others suspect Reynauds. One physician (his internist) took that position with my father when his hands and fingers would react to temperature changes with perceived abnormal sensations of cold ("No weird colors so you are fine, Fred" sort of attitude).Another one of his doctors did realize upon careful study of history and physical exam, that the patients complaint might have some validity...and he proposed entering into the already-referenced-int-this-thread attempts to isolate the particular Reynauds phenomenon which was suspect.While evryone was focused on that, his symptoms got worse, and his hand vasculature would appear to react sufficiently to produce the cyanosis referred to by Flux (lowered oxygen saturation in the capillary bed). This went on...oh, don't worry just keep yer hands warm its benign...until tissue necrosis set in at his fingertips. Necrosis is "tissue death".One of the "newbies" only 2 years off his fellowship thought he looked like "something he should not look like" and the attending on his team scolded him for his foolishness because "THE LITERATURE SAYS THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN-IT-IS-VERY-RARE-AND-NOT-IN MEN" AND SO FORTH. But Doc B worked him up anyway and it turns out he was diagnosed with the VERY unusual "anti-phospholipid syndrome". Fortunately for his fingers, the diagnosis was made and treatment ensued for that rare condition, and it was brought under control without too much tissue loss.On the downside, as the condition was somewhat advanced by the time the minds-opened, the dose and type of drugs used for treatment of that condition interracted with meds he was on for several other problems and killed him in a very unpleasant way one day.And it all started with a group of highly qualified board certified docs in various specialties arguing over his cold fingers.MNL__________________ www.leapallergy.com


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## Guest (Dec 8, 2000)

Well I finally think I've got it, after going to the doctor yesterday I ahve Raynauds Disease.. God I hope thats what this is. I have so many question though


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Just to be the exception that proves the rule, Although I am female, and most of my younger years had really low blood pressure (it has been creeping up lately and high blood pressure runs in the family) I have always had really warm hands. When I was doing research in graduate school some of the other woman in the lab had to use stuff from little frozen vials. They always handed them to be to thaw out. IBS was quite severe, but is now in remission. No noticable change in hand temp<cue music>"Out here on my own"K.


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