# Diet desperation



## katstratford (Jun 18, 2002)

Hi EveryoneI live in New Zealand and I'm finding it really hard to get help. I didn't get diagnosed with IBS until I was in the States on holiday about 6 years ago, even though I'd been to lots of doctors.We don't have anything like LEAP here, and I don't think there is even an allergenist in town -although I've asked my doc to refer me to one. I also have IC, which plays hell with everythingas well. Some days I think I should just give up food altogether. I am vegetarian, and at themoment I'm also lactose and caffeine free, eating cooked rather than raw fruit and veges, I can't seem to tolerate soy, or beans or corn or a bunch of other things. Now it seems from posts that I may be wheat intolerant. Bread is just about all I eat! I know there is wheatfree bread I can get, but I'm not sure what else to eat. Can someone give me some suggestions for a wheat free trial diet for a week, just to see how it goes?ThanksKat


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## zimmer (Jun 15, 2002)

Hi KatI went through similar problems like you and understand you. I had this IBS "karma" for over 25 years or more. Diagnosed with it about 8 years ago. I live in Argentina and also understand you on distance problems. Lots of meds told me its all in your head. Even my girlfriend still thinks its kind of a psychological problem. I am sick of them and probably they are sick with me since I stick with the theory that it is all food related. In the next few month I'll probably fly to Florida to have a blood test at LEAP. Meanwhile I try with foods and see what happens. I suggest you to read the messages on nutrition and specialy the ones from Mike NoLomotil he has very good posts on how to configure a exclusion diet. Problem is to find out which basic foods do not trigger simptoms. Once you found them the method of adding them is easy but time consuming. I just started trying with meat and a few vegetables right now. (eaven for breakfast,







ughh!). Of cours no alcohol soft drinks coffe, te and milk. Just plain water or some herbteas. 4 to 5 small meals a day and then adding one food only for 3 days in a row. I take also multi vit. and min.. You see I have to do new trials every day until I get LEAP food list and program.Good luck and regardsCris


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

KAT:You may find these books of great help in working with your symptoms and deciding a self-directed approach to your dietary planning:IBS: A DOCTORS PLAN FOR CHRONIC DIGESTIVE TROUBLESBy Gerard Guillory, M.D.; Vanessa Ameen, M.D.; Paul Donovan, M.D.; Jack Martin, Ph.D. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-h...9085785-1742301 "FOOD ALLERGIES AND FOOD INTOLERANCE: THE COMPLETE GUIDE TO THEIR IDENTIFICTION AND TREATMENT", Professor Jonathan Brostoff , M.D.. Allergy, Immunology and Environmental Medicine, Kings' College, Londonhttp://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/089...r=2-1/102-64875 08-3420903[/URL]Another alternative which some people have found succcess with, and is from your fair country is IBSACOL www.ibsacol.comShould be easy to get there...check out their website and it may be an option for you as well. It will be a little while before we come to NZ...the USA is so big first.







MNL


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## katstratford (Jun 18, 2002)

Wow! A message from the great Mike himself! I'm so honoured: )Thanks for your replies and suggestions guys, I'm feeling quite a lot better today. Just seem to be remaking the wheel in the dark down here... gets a bit frustrating.Have good days.Kat


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

KAT:LOL _____________________________________"Just seem to be remaking the wheel in the dark down here... gets a bit frustrating." _____________________________________You sound so much like Dianne from Meracol (IBSACOL). That is such a New Zealnd-way of saying something...so much more charming than "reinventing the wheel" as a Yank would just blurt out.







I do suggest giving Dianne a jingle or email as these folks may be able to help you...esp. if you are near the clinic of the Dr. who has worked on this "invention". He has quite a lot of experience in these matters it is my impression.Be well.MNL


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## katstratford (Jun 18, 2002)

Thanks Mike. I've been in touch with Meracol and my Ibsacol arrived today(-acol?). Hopefully that will work. My situation is that I have interstitial cystitis (little ulcers in my bladder lining that make it swell up when irritated, reducing my between-bathroom time to about 30 mins) as well as IBS and I feel pretty blah a lot of the time. Not pain so much as tummy achey, cramps, etc etc. I'm vegetarian, lactose-intolerant, the IC means I can't have fruit other than pears because of acid-intolerance, the IBS means I can't have pulses because of bloating and gas cramps, can't have caffeine, sugar is problematic and now maybe I'm gluten intolerant.... Not having something like LEAP makes everything so hard to untangle. I'm getting so hard to feed I'll never get asked to go to people's places for tea ever again! but howcome if I'm not eating all this stuff I'm STILL not losing weight! ARgh!


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## Julia37 (May 9, 2001)

Kat,Soy, beans, and peanuts are all part of the same food family, so if you are reactive to one you can easily have a cross-reaction to another. Also included in this family are peanuts, peas, lentils - all legumes.Why do you think you're gluten intolerant? Have you tried an elimination diet? I don't see how else you could tell without blood tests.Maybe you could eat other nut butters for protein such as almond or cashew. I'm not a vegetarian myself and I'm wondering if you'd reconsider that because it would be much easier to rotate your diet and get enough protein into you. My mainstays are meat, veggies, and bread - I'm allergic to soy and intolerant to dairy, among others.


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

I can understand your diet desperation. I am fructose intolerant and can't tolerate veggies and fruits and I am really at a loss how to get vital nutrients and vitamins in me since I am basically a vegetarian


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

KATZ...OH MAN and IC is a comorbid-sign of ffod or chemical sensitivity (like when it appears comorbid with d-type IBS or migraines for example)...and many IC patients who are refractory end up finiding cell mediated reactivity to some chemical or even whole food in the diet and then can get reduced inflammatory response...DAMN I wish I could get a blood sample here from there.However, Brostoffs book and his diet protocols might be worth looking into...or perhaps a stomegae diet for 10 days followed by serial food challenges of whole foods only...all addivies out.Hmmm...lemme gogitate on this awhile now that the IC is out of the closet!MNL


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## katstratford (Jun 18, 2002)

Hi Mike,Couple of questions... comorbid? refractory? cell mediated reactivity? a stomeage diet?".DAMN I wish I could get a blood sample here from there."Uh... I'll post you one? (and you only THINK I'm kidding)


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## Julia37 (May 9, 2001)

Katz,Let's see if I can back Mike up herecomorbid: an additional condition that has not been found to be directly related to the one Mike's discussingcell mediated reactivity: With food sensitivity the symptoms are caused by immune cells reacting to the specific food.a stomeage diet: He means "stoneage". You'll get used to his typos.







I haven't looked at it myself, but I hear the stoneage diet is the one our caveperson ancestors lived on - whole grains and fruits, pure meats, no processed foods.refractory: I know what refracted light is, but I don't know what it means in this context. Bonnei, why can't you eat veggies?







I'm also fructose intolerant, but I can eat all the green ones plus yellow corn if I don't overdo it. Tomatos seem a bit tricky though.


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

If I recall correctly, you haven't had the fructose intolerance test, Julia. All I know is when I arrived in India I at first ate a lot of veggies and I had an unbelievable amount of gas. There was also another variable- I stopped taking probiotics. Anyway the long and short of it Is I included whole wheat fiber in my diet and cut back on the veggies just like I do in the States and my gas is minimal. While it is poosible I am only reative to some foods i am not taking any chances and experimenting since I am around people all the time here. My diet is out of desperation So i have minimal gas


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

Julia...ThanksKATSSorry...J is right I have to go too fast and I don't use the spell checker and my typing sux as I have soooo much to do....I am sorry when I am i a hurry I start tkaing shortcuts with words and sometimes people don't know the word .Anyway..damn outta time again.Did I spell damn right?







MNL


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## katstratford (Jun 18, 2002)

Hi guysThanks for hanging in here with me, it can get very lonely when no one understands what you're talking about! I'm currently trying a gluten free diet for a couple of weeks, because I've read that a number of people with digestive problems become gluten sensitive. Too soon to tell yet. I've made some inquiries and there's someone I can go and see in a town 8 hours away who can do a gluten test, but I'll only go if it does seem to be causing me a problem. Stoneage diet - I would try it, but I'd have to take out the meat, the fruit, the green veges and, at the moment, the bread! Which would leave ... uh... pears and carrots, about where I am now! I'm actually doing a bit of an asian thing at the moment, having rice, rice noodles, and stir fry selected veges. Tastes nice at least. Went to a party last night. I feel so conspicuously different from everyone, not being able to join in really with no visible reason why. I bet they just think I'm anorexic or something. More like bulimic! I don't do the vomiting thing, but being good and then bingeing when I get fed up is a hard habit to break. Have you had any further thoughts (and any more time) Mike?







I think it's time I brought out the dancing guy....


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

HI KATZENJAMMER: ______________________________"Have you had any further thoughts (and any more time) Mike?" ______________________________Right now only regarding this concern: ______________________________"I feel so conspicuously different from everyone, not being able to join in really with no visible reason why." ______________________________It sbeen my experience over the years that we are not as conspicuosu as we think we are. Sometimes there is a goon in every crowd who has to draw attention to our different eating habits. My experience has been the best repsonse is "Yeah I ahve really bad FOOD ALLERGIES. I am not the person you want having a severe allergic reaction here in front of everyone. Though some people say when I do I could qualify as a 4 ticket ride at the fair!".Something to that effect usally shuts people up, or at least I get some cheap sympathy attention







__________________________________"I bet they just think I'm anorexic or something. More like bulimic!" __________________________________Naw, they just think you are weird thats all. Don't worry about it.







___________________________________"I don't do the vomiting thing, but being good and then bingeing when I get fed up is a hard habit to break. " ___________________________________My ex did the vomiting thing, ain't that pretty at all.And how hard the binging is to break is directly proportionate to how sever the cosequences are over time. If the consequences are not too sever the motivation is low and the habit is touhg to break. When the consequences are severe, motivation increases and behavior modifying solutions are sought out.That about the gist if itm except to say I think many of us have been there. I know I was before beleived there was an answer. Before, when I beleived there WAS NO ANSWER to my misery, I lived a different philosophy for many years:Live Hard,Die Young,Leave a Good Looking Corpse.







MNL


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## katstratford (Jun 18, 2002)




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## Julia37 (May 9, 2001)

bonniei,I don't think we have the same fructose intolerance! Maybe mine is better called a sensitivity, since it feels like it causes inflammation. I can't have whole wheat and I thought it was because of the fructose.Is the test you're talking about fructose malabsorption? I think that's when you can't digest it, but it doesn't cause inflammation, pain etc., is that right? Are you eating yogurt? Maybe there's lactose or something in the yogurt that's causing you gas, or maybe you're reactive to something more specific to India - could be a lot of things.


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## katstratford (Jun 18, 2002)

Mike,Any more thoughts on the IC thing?


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

My test is for fructose malabsorption. It is well known as the test for fructose intolerance. you are right it could be many thngs I am reacting to.


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

IC?yeah the probnlem is it is very difficult to isolate by dietaryintake monitoring any chemicals in foods or whole foosd themselves which provoke the IC symptoms. But since the immunocyte reactions which increase tone of the bladder smooth muscle are very similar and often parrallel to the provking agents ofor a person with comorbid IBS-d, an obersvation has been that when you get the patient ona diet which reduces their IBS sysmpoms via isolationa dn avoidcnec, the comorbid IC symptoms improve as well.One of the things that has been observed in patients with provocable small bowel inflammatory response to food or chemical thus elicitn IBS symptoms is an alteration in the gut wall permebility. This can lead to secondary syetmeic immunocyte activation and mediator release systemically. Now the mechanism by which the reactions are also seen in the bladder at this stage is wholly speculative, for certain, as the whole are is so nacent that I do not know of anyone who has done a definitive in vivo assessment on this subpopulation (IBS/IC).I can only report what has been clinically observed.from that I would surmise that by applying the known principals of dietary intake and symptom monitoring to dietary adjuatsmetns for IBS, if deon not by food ALLERGY rules but by the rules dictated by the dose-deoendent delayed onset nature of food sensitivities, you should see a change in symptomology for both conditions.Do you have this book, which has some good dietary logging forms in it that can come in handy?IBS: A DOCTORS PLAN FOR CHRONIC DIGESTIVE TROUBLESBy Gerard Guillory, M.D.; Vanessa Ameen, M.D.; Paul Donovan, M.D.; Jack Martin, Ph.D. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-h...9085785-1742301 Also, I do not have handy but one of my people might, some of the lonks to the online IC communities, where you might also get some shared-experience benefit. Let me ask if our physician liaison has an IC board link for you.This current summary is reflective of just how difficult it still is to assess this condition, which I think affects over 700,000 people at last guess in the US: _______________________________Curr Opin Urol 2002 Jul;12(4):321-32 Interstitial cystitis: an update.Oberpenning F, Van Ophoven A, Hertle L.Department of Urology, University of Munster, Munster, Germany.PURPOSE OF REVIEW: Interstitial cystitis is a chronically progressive, severely debilitating, heterogeneous syndrome affecting the urinary bladder, mainly associated with urgency, frequency and pain. Though known for over a century, its etiology is poorly understood and universally effective treatments are lacking. This review focuses on recently published literature on the disorder. RECENT FINDINGS: Appropriate diagnostic tests for interstitial cystitis remain uncertain. The diagnostic criteria developed by the US National Institutes of Health represent research definitions which are subject to controversial debate for their overenthusiastic clinical application. The diagnosis is made clinically and by cystoscopy with hydrodistention and sometimes biopsy when other pathologies have been excluded. In symptomatic patients, glomerulations upon bladder distension are indicative but not pathognomonic for nonulcerative interstitial cystitis. Patients with ulcerative disease represent a separate subgroup with distinct characteristics and treatment implications. The role of bladder permeability tests remains controversial. Promising noninvasive markers for interstitial cystitis have been described but are not yet clinically available. Validated symptom scores are appropriate to assist in diagnostics and to monitor disease course and treatment efficacy. Lately investigated hypotheses for causative factors include occult or resistant microorganisms, urothelial hyperpermeability, neurogenic or hormonal pathomechanisms, and mast cell activation. Increasing evidence for a genetic susceptibility is emerging. SUMMARY: Among the multitude of oral, intravesical, interventional and complementary treatments suggested few studies have high levels of evidence. Newly proposed agents must await further controlled studies. Treatment remains empiric until radical surgical procedures should ultimately be considered for severe refractory cases.PMID: 12072654 [PubMed - in process] ____________________________________And IBS patients think their condition is poorly understood!MNL


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## katstratford (Jun 18, 2002)

Wow. Thanks for putting so much thought into your reply, Mike.I'm blown away. And at the same time, really depressed.







If you think this condition is misunderstood in the States, youshould try New Zealand!Following your previous recommendation, I have ordered thebook you mention from Amazon, but expect it will take severalmore weeks to get here. I wrote to Dianne, by the way, and she speaks very highly of you.Just got to keep going I guess.Thanks for caring.Kat


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Anyone know how much time amazon.com takes on international orders?


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## katstratford (Jun 18, 2002)

Update.Well, I've been gluten free for about 2 weeks and I haven't noticed any real difference. I'm back on gluten tomorrow and I'll see if there is any reaction. But I've still been on and off lousy without it, so I don't think that's the problem. Definitely lactose, definitely caffeine, definitely spices etc, definitely beans and pulses. Maybe fruit acid - not entirely convinced. Seem to have lots of problems with stuff being cold - causes a pretty strong reaction. Lukewarm is preferable. Any of you guys have problems with sugar? Or vegetable fat? I'm trying to think what else in my diet could be causing trouble but there isn't much left!


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## echris (Jul 19, 2000)

Kat:Unfortunately, if you do have Celiac Disease, just going 2 weeks wheat free is no where near long enough to have your symptoms clear up. Sure, some patients are better in just a couple of weeks but many patients take a lot longer. After 25+ years of diarrhea (with all different types of management attempts including many different high-powered medications -- Lotronex and opium did help!), I followed a gluten free/lactose free diet for eight weeks (8), and have been diarrhea free for 4-6 months now.The reason that it takes a while is that, with Celiac Disease, the lining of the small intestine, the villae, are significantly damaged by the gluten. It takes time for such tissue to heal, particularly with the malabsorption that often accompanies Celiac Disease.Unfortunately, the LEAP MRT blood test does not test for Celiac Disease. My MRT came back with wheat, rye, oats and barley all in the green level but I can not eat any of them. In fact, it would be nice if the MRT included the test for Celiac Disease. Identifying patients with Celiac Disease would be a real big service.I'm not saying that you have Celiac Disease. I hope, for your sake, that you do not. But the odds of actually have a gluten free diet in just two weeks are pretty slim because it takes a while to learn what all of the sources of gluten are. But, once you are gluten free, the intestine has to heal.echris


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## Julia37 (May 9, 2001)

Katz,I can't eat any natural sugars. Fructose causes the worst pain, but the others aren't fun either.I have to avoid all fruits as well as onion, carrots, sweet potatos, and winter squash. I also have trouble with high-acid foods like tomatos and chocolate, and I can't eat them every day.Keep trying, and listen to your instincts, that helps. One day it will just come together in your mind. That's how it's worked for me.


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## jennieb54143 (Jun 30, 2002)

kat- i know the feeling. I cant eat much and when I eat somthing the girls(my cousins(my aunts kids that i see at least 4 times a week)arnt eating they want my food lol. ever try explaning ibs to a two year old. lol she thinks ibs means and i quote "enny gotta go poo poo more and cant eat iccrish"ps. iccrish is licorish (dang i cant spell)


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

HI EC:Some discussion to clear up fogginess on technology: _________________________________________"Unfortunately, the LEAP MRT blood test does not test for Celiac Disease. Identifying patients with Celiac Disease would be a real big service." __________________________________________Its a good question and prompts an approaite discussion and explanation which may c;arify things a bit.Basically one has to keep in mind that one cannot tell how much gas is in the tank by looking at the tire pressure. If the car is to run optimally you need to test tire prssure, so some guy develops the tire gauge. You also need to have enough oil, so the dipstick guy did his work. And you need to have gas so the gas gauge was invented, and you need to know how fast you are going so the speedometer inventor made his mark.Managing patients who suffer from the myriad forms of food or chemical hypersensitivity is the same thing.For years there have been reliable tests for the small % of the popuation that has Celiac Disease, said patients have certain symptoms which suggest that testing is indicated.This is available widely already through countless laboratories and the physician doing a differential diagnosis can get this done anywhere.Tests for the markers of true food "allergy" are widely avalabe as well, and can be ordered from many different laboratories already (RAST & ELISA are primary examples). They do of themselves diagnose allergy, only that a specific immunoglobulin has been formed so the possibility exists.If you are working up an IBS-d type patients and you test for these two mechanisms you will find that somewere in the vicinity of 10% or so will come up positive on these tests as a comorbidity. The other 90% or so of d-types do not have either allergies or celiac disease yet remain symptom plagued.This is the reason Mediator Release Testing was developed: it can look for the common end point of any reaction of the CIRCULATING immune cell classes to exposure to food elements or chemicals. This has been suspected for 20+ years through clinical observation as being a major mechanism of symptom generation in these patients. n the last 3 years numerous independent investigators have confirmed by direct exmainatuion of the bowel the activation of the circulating immune system in IBS victims, so that is consistent with what is being duplicated in vitro with this technology.So the MRT assay is a complementary test to those that already exist. Since Signet's immunologist invented it, it is only done by Signet. Signet is a specialty ("esoteric") testing lab (licensed hematology lab) and we do not plan to expand into areas already more than "over-served" by existing labs.Instead, we focused on developing a Disease Mangement Program which could be based on the MRT assay and incorporate either all the other tests the patient already had for allergies, or the proepr histry and dietary intake analaysis results aong with the MRT assays.Then we developed a very specific protocol which was designed to UNCOVER THOSE THINGS THAT THE MRT TEST was not designed to do...any hidden comorbidities like allergies or pseudoallergy (false allergy).If patient has no cell mediated reaction to whet, for exmaple, but has anothe form of immune response that is not revealed by history or prior testing THIS WILL SHOW UP during the LEAP Program if it is followed.HOW? By the MOST reliable way possible: oral chalenge.







So basiclly, instead of installing more lab equipment and trying to duplicate what others already do, and most aptients that come to us know already, or try to "upsell" people to allergy tests if they dis not have them, we will simply find out if this person is among the one in 10 or so that does have a comorbdity of this type when we put them on the carefuly structured dietary plan that is personalized for them.if the patient already knows tey are allergic to whet from prior testing, this is something we expect that when we get the medical history (the LEAP doctor or Homecare dietician) that the patient will of course report. then This is also included in their dietary restrictions right out of the box. This way the cost is kept down...why retest that which you know...test for that which you do NOT know.Does that seem rational?







It may seem rational to us but irrational to somene else, which is certainly understandable that perspective might be different.But if someone already is, er, has, a dipstick we did not wish to reinvent it, that's all. In fact last night I was on the phone with Professor Brostoff, our chief consultant in these matters, and he even "baits" me with a similar challenge "So do you see yourselves adding IgG to the assay mix?" and before I could even spit out "no" and why, he laughs and cannot wait to tell me not to as it is not relaible for determinign if a clinical IgG reaction to fod exists, only "exposure" (sort of like a TB test does not mean you have TB only that you were exposed and converted).Eat well. Think well. Be well.


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## katstratford (Jun 18, 2002)

Hi guysA couple of questions you may or may not be able to help me with.1. Is there or is there not lactose in cheese? Is there lactose in cooked products, eg bread, that contain small quantities of milk?2. Since I can't have soy, dairy or legumes and I'm vegetarian, what are some alternative sources of protein?Thanks guyshave a good dayKat


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## Julia37 (May 9, 2001)

Katz,Hard cheese such as cheddar or Swiss contains only small traces of lactose. You may have to experiment to see if it bothers you. soft cheeses such as Brie or cream cheese contain substantial amounts of lactose.Anything that contains milk will contain the lactose as far as I know. I make bread in a bread machine and use rice milk in the recipes.I think it would be much easier for you to stay nourished if you reconsidered being a vegetarian, but if you won't...Try nuts and nut butters(except peanuts) they're high-protein. also maybe brown rice or other whole grains would help.


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

KATZ....J is correct since in practice, if you made cheese the classic way and perfectly all the lactose would be gone. Buit there is residual but not usually enough to bother you if you have an intolerance due to lactase deficiency. if that is all it is you can take modest amounts of lactose and idgest it OK. There are other mechanisms....but one of the other dairy fractions is more liely the culprit.Ditto for butter which basically is a dairy BY product. If done right it is just a bunch of fatty acids.Butter is a mixture of triglycerides of several different fatty acids, which can vary, so no single chemical structure can be "drawn". Most "animal fats" are composed primarily of triglycerides. The glycerides break down over time and release the fatty acids. The butyric acid in butter is the cause of the nasty smell of "rancid butter". The caproic acid also smells. Triglycerides are "fats" which are called esters, and are formed from glycerol with 3 fatty acids linked to them. The color of butter comes from carotene. The more common fatty acids in butter and there approximate % of the composition are (rounded off): oleic acid 32%myristioc acid 20%palmitic acid 15%stearic acid 15%lauric acid 6%butyric acid 3%caproic acid 2%capric acid 1.5%caprylic acid 0.8 %linoleic acid 0.2%linolenic acid 0.1%However, there may be enough residual dairy proteins left over from the mass manufacturing process to bother an alergic person, or the carotene could be a problem. Also of ocurse, if you have a gall bladder whcih is uncooperative....ouch.MNL


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## Jan LEAP RD (May 19, 2002)

> quote: My situation is that I have interstitial cystitis (little ulcers in my bladder lining that make it swell up when irritated, reducing my between-bathroom time to about 30 mins) as well as IBS and I feel pretty blah a lot of the time.


Hi Kat,As an RD, I know a bit about IC. I do have a list of foods that 'tend' to create problems for people with IC. (Let me know if I should post it.)But, that said, one thing that I've seen help IC clients is parsley and parsley tea. Steep a tablespoon or so of fresh chopped parsley in a cup of hot water for 5 min to make a 'tea.' It seems to be very soothing for many! Just, be warned, it can cause diarrhea in excess! (Hmmm, I've never thought to suggest this for IBS-C. . . maybe somebody wants to try an 'excess' amount and see if it helps and let me know!


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## katstratford (Jun 18, 2002)

Thanks Jan. I'll follow up on that parsley thing. If you could post the list, that would be great.I had a particular bad attack last night and just sat in a hot bath for about half an hour and cried until it stopped. This just all gets so depressing sometimes : (ThanksKat


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## Julia37 (May 9, 2001)

kat,As Mike says regular mass-produced cheese may contain more than traces of lactose. However, gourmet cheese sold in bulk is more likely to have been made properly. Generally the harder and more aged the cheese, the less lactose it contains.I used to work in a wine and cheese shop and there were some delicious ones - Aged Gouda, Cotswold (an English cheddar with chive and onion, yummy), Black Diamond Cheddar, Roquefurt, Gruyere, etc......


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## katstratford (Jun 18, 2002)

I love aged cheese, but then my list of IC things I'm not allowed lists aged cheese along with things like smoked fish as being unadvisable. I know aged cheese tends to be quite rich in fat, I"m not sure why else it would be on this list. I'm not sure of the solution here. I guess treating aged cheese like parmesan, and having tiny amounts just to give my bland diet some flavour might be okay. I'll exclude it on the first phase of my elim diet (starting August, doing it by the book this time), and then see if I can reintroduce it later.Thanks guysKat


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

"I used to work in a wine and cheese shop and there were some delicious ones - Aged Gouda, Cotswold (an English cheddar with chive and onion, yummy), Black Diamond Cheddar, Roquefurt, Gruyere, etc...."Oh go ahead rub it in on us cheese-avoiders. especially the onion







I used to work in a gourmet wine shop myself but was dismissed for "inventory shrinkage".







MNLPSI tried telling them it was essential to my Healthy Heart Program to no avail.


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## Julia37 (May 9, 2001)

> quote:Oh go ahead rub it in on us cheese-avoiders.


I can't have cheese or onion anymore either! In fact, I had frequent mild headaches while I worked there - I was full-time low salary for 4 months, and scrounged bits of bread, cheese and sausage to eat - coincidental headaches? I think not!Now all I have are the memories


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

!!!....and cheesy ones at that!!!


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## katstratford (Jun 18, 2002)

Got cornered into going out for dinner last night, and it was a disaster. Scrutinised the menu and ordered hte only thing I possibly could eat, and it was foul so didn't eat it. I've vaguely explained my ibs to these friends and had to take pills with the meal and everything, but they must just thing I'm the pickiest person in the world. Got really depressed. My birthday is coming up in 2 weeks and I expect going out for dinner is going to be mooted. The only thing I can think of that would be safe would be a sushi restaurant, but that is the one thing my partner doesn't eat. Any suggestions?


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