# Vivonex Plus Fast and SIBO



## Brownish72 (Aug 26, 2012)

Vivonex Plus Fast 3

This will by far be my longest post up-to-date. There's a lot to read, but for those interesting in Fasting on Vivonex, I know there's a lot of questions and fear before fasting and what to do after fasting, Hopefully my experience here can help.

This is my 3rd time fasting on Vivonex Plus (continuing reading to find out why). I'm going to be taking 7 packets a day, so 2100 calories/day. This time; I will use a blender to really mix the packets. Before I simply shook them in a bottle. I am testing to see if I will better absorb the product if it's mixed really well in water. Here we go!

I am following Dr. Pimentel's protocol, explained in his book "A new IBS Solution" , to get rid of SIBO. The only thing I do different is I wean off coffee. The headaches between the 'die off' of bacteria and lack of coffee plus the fast itself would simply be too much. I drink 1oz espresso, 3x a day. Day 1, I will continue with 3, down to 2, down to 1 ristretto (1/2 oz super small espresso) on day three, and be off it. I did this my first time fasting, and got tested for SIBO on day 16 of my fast with great results. (9 PPM hydrogen spike, no where near the 20PPM needed to be diagnosed with SIBO, and my GI diagnosis SIBO at 12PPM)

For those curious why I am fasting again (for the 3rd time!!). SIBO is a reoccurring infection unless the underlying problem is treated. The underlying problem could be Chrons, Colitis, Celiacs, poor gut motility, a damaged Small Bowel from the SIBO, leaky gut, Stomach PH, the list is quite long... I don't have anything wrong that I know of other than SIBO (I've never had my stomach PH tested). One thing I did not know from my previous two fasts was how important the prevention step is. Post Infection is extremely important, and I fell into the trap thinking I was safe once again to eat trigger foods. Once SIBO is gone, it doesn't appear that one cannot simply eat whatever they want right away, however the equation is quite more complicated than that. It seems, as a recently study about SIBO stated, it takes about 4 weeks post SIBO for the intestinal lining to heal. I am going to follow a protocol that pushes that 4 weeks to 12 weeks. I will also be following my fast with the following "Brush Border" healing supplements to help heal the Small Intestine:

Colostrum powder, from ProSymbiotics (its lactose free and RX strength). L-Glutamine , enzymes (from GIprohealth), Fish oil, as well as Tumeric Tea (homemade) . I am going to take Betaine HCL before meals to test if stomach PH could be an issue. Proper stomach PH is necessary to not only cleanse food before going to the bowel, but also; it ensures proper enzyme secretion. If you are getting floating stools, undigested food in your stool; Stool PH and enzyme supplements are worth exploring. These I will take for about 4 weeks. After 4 weeks, I will start drinking a cup or bone broth daily; Collagen is an important protein that hold tissue cells together in animals (so; humans), and it's the main protein in bone broth. Think of it like a band-aide on an inflamed wound.

I have made an excel spreadsheet of post diet foods I will be eating, which is a combination of SCD foods *and* low-fodmap. I have created a schedule of hopefully when I can start adding foods. When "Breaking the Vicious Cycle" was written, (the famous Simple Carbohydrate Diet Book) carbs known as Fructans, Galactans, and Polyols were not known at the time. This is why many people with SIBO may react to cauliflower 'potatoes' because they are quite high in Polyols (sugar alcohols) which are poorly digested by all humans. For us with SIBO, this means food for the infection we are fighting, and for normal humans; this means just getting gas. I am following a list I made, using Dr. Siebeckers guidelines, and adding my own based on further research.

The only prescription I am going to take is called Resolor; it's a prokinetic agent available in Europe and Canada, not in the US yet. Study after study have shown the importance of prokinetics following the eradication of SIBO, increasing relapse time from weeks to months / years, and some work better than others. Resolor is really promising. I will take this for 90 days. It appears those of us with SIBO show signs of a damaged Migrating Motor Complex because of several different theories. Taking a prokinetic stimulates peristalisis, the 'cleansing waves' of the stomach and small bowel

I am, almost without a doubt, going to do an FMT procedure when I get back to the States in June. I could write a book about why I am going to do it, but with my history of antibiotics, it makes sense. Proper gut flora insures proper release of seratonin, it ensures we get vitamins from foods we are not able to metabolize but bacteria do, and there are now theories that proper gut flora are linked to the genes in our bodies that 'turn on' paristalisis.. I talked with 3 doctors about it, and 1 was really excited about it, the 2 others it took me talking to them and giving my reasoning before they both lifted their eyebrows and said this is really worth a try. So I will hopefully be getting that in about 90 days, which is perfect timing with everything I explained above.

*Things fasting has taken care of for me*: Chronic yellow "frothy" stool with almost all undigested food. Rectal irritation. Chronic Diarrhea / loose stool. Urgency to go. Headaches and "brain-fog", high motility, food sensitivities, and angry mood swings. Overall, I'm much happier post fast, and I feel a lot better, and when I have relapsed, "only" the loose stool leaning towards Diarrhea is what came back.

*Highly Recommended reading - *Self education is extremely important for any IBS related condition

Dr. Pimentel's "A New IBS Solution"

Norman Robillard "Fast Track Digestion"

Elaine Gotschall "Breaking the Vicious Cycle"

Any book explaing low FODMAP

SCD Lifestyle from www.scdlifestyle.com - an EXTREMELY helpful guide to why the SCD diet fails for so many, and how to make it successful for you. (like Gotschall's book, only updated!!! )

http://ndnr.com/web-articles/gastrointestinal/small-intestine-bacterial-overgrowth-2/ : latest update on how I am going to treat SIBO this time around

*Important Podcasts to listen to:*

http://scdlifestyle.com/2012/09/dr-siebecker-explains-the-art-and-science-of-the-fodmap-diet-podcast-45/ - REALLY informative
http://huffduffer.com/mblomberg/tags/siboinfo.com - What is SIBO?? Great explanations
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/undergroundwellness/2011/09/02/sibo-undiagnosed-and-undertreated - Another Great Explanation on what SIBO is.

http://www.radiolab.org/2012/apr/02/ - Just a good talk; talks about probiotics in mice

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/drloradio/2011/05/04/digestive-health-with-dr-allison-siebecker

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/undergroundwellness/2012/03/15/ask-the-digestion-doc-with-dr-allison-siebecker
[URL=http://chriskresser]http://chriskresser.com/[/URL] : This guy has soo many great podcasts / recipes / stories : an incredible resource

*Alternatives to Vivonex*

If you react to Vivonex, there are other elemental diets out there. You could make your own, provided on this link; http://www.siboinfo.com/elemental-formula.html
You could also buy one called Nutricia Neocate; It does NOT contain maltodextrin, has a higher fat and and a lower carb count than Vivonex. Its also quite a bit cheaper, but still expensive. Here's their website: http://global.neocate.com/ It was designed for kids, but I have heard of doctors recommending it if you react to Vivonex.

I'm sure this brought up a lot of questions, and I am more than happy to try and answer them. For those interested in the fast and my experience, here's my daily journal, how I felt, and how it all went.

*Day 1*

I got my product around 9 AM in the morning. Previous to this; I had eaten a ripe banana and a double espresso (not knowing my packet was on its way!). I decided to start the fast nonetheless, and will evaluate how I feel on day 14 whether I need to continue an extra day for the banana ate this morning. I made it through most of the day with no issues. In total; I drank 6 packets; 2 @ noon, 2 @ 5:00PM and 2 more around 8PM. I rested, and went to bed very early. I felt shaky, and got cold sweats around 9PM. This happened in my previous experiences fasting on Vivonex. Before going to bed, I had a liquid bowel movement that seemed to empty anything I had in me. The headache today was quite bad, but tolerable. Overall, all sounds bad but actually today wasn't that horrible. I talked with my roommates, a few colleagues, as well as my girlfriend's family, to let them all know I will be fasting. I kept it a secret from others before. The emotional support has been great, and maybe this is why I'm such a positive mood.

*Day2*

Woke up around 1:30 AM, felt a little shaky, so I made shake with one packet. 10 minutes later, I felt fine and went back to sleep. In total; got between 10-12 hrs of good sleep. 2 bowel movement; all liquid again, especially the 2nd one. Little to no gas, no bloating, no headache, and despite my dislike of fasting, I feel good. I noticed walking in the hall how happy I was at the University where I 'work'.

*Day 3*

Slept really well; about 8-9 hours. I've been going to bed early, getting good rest. No headache today, mood is great. No gas, no bloating, and no Bowel Movement today. Actually doing quite good; Hope this keeps up.

*Day 4 *

Last night, went to bed around 10 PM, woke up around 6:45 AM this morning. Had one BM, mixture of solid stool and liquid. No pain, gas, bloating, and minus a coffee craving, I'm doing quite well! Not 'hungry', feeling great. Headache came later in the day, lasted most of the day.

*Day 5*

Went to bed around 10PM, and woke up again around 6:45AM . I feel awesome today. No headache, tons of energy, no hunger feeling. In a great mood. Had one BM this morning with only solid, yellow, small stool. Extremely small BM mid-afternoon. Other than getting frustrated by the fast, today went really well.

*Day 6*

It's the weekend, yet somehow I still managed to wake up at 6:45 AM feeling great! One BM in the morning, was formed, and consisted of one stool instead of many small ones. The day went great. Planted my garden! J No symptoms what so ever, and the minor rosacea I notice on my cheeks is disappearing.! I'm staying really positive, and I feel absolutely great. Hope this keeps up.

*Day 7*

I had one extremely small bowel movement. I do feel a little hungry today. Woke up, once again, @ 6:55, and I even cooked breakfast for my girlfriend J . No symptoms what so ever, I feel awesome, my energy is incredible, and I gardened for a few hours. This 3rd time fasting has been, so far, the easiest of them all. The rosacea on my cheeks is almost gone! One week down!

*Day 8*

Woke up, around 3 am. Lots of stomach rumbling (peristalisis), and I was hungry, nose was runny and had a small headache. But I went back to sleep easily, and woke up @ 7AM. I had a lot of formed, string like stool, no liquid. I read a recent study that it takes about one week for many anaerobic bacteria to die from fasting, this could explain my sudden on-set of symptoms last night. I feel great., but my mood is a little 'blah'. Went to the gym today, took it easy but felt good. Overall, today went well, a little depressed though, but need to pull through.

*Day 9*

An early riser I guess, 7AM again without an alarm. Woke up with a headache, & it came and went throughout the day. I had BM around noon; was almost all liquid. Had another 3 hours later, was small pebble like stool, with some liquid as well. I don't feel that great today, almost flu like symptoms. Went to gym, kept it easy, feels good to get back to lifting.

*Day 10*

Woke up @ 7, got great sleep. Lots of stomach rumbling last night. No headache. No hunger feeling. Today went great, and no Bowel Movement at all.

*Day 11*

Woke up, 7AM again. No headache, great sleep. Great energy today. One small BM in the evening. Was quite hungry today. I may have overdone myself at the gym, even though I took it easy.

*Day 12*

Woke up at 5:55AM!! Wired! I've really gained my energy back this time on Vivonex. I was not expecting this. I had a small, one pebble BM this morning. Other than that; feeling great today. I hate this part, so close to the end, time just keeps dragin' on. My girlfriend commented on how happy I've been lately. And my rosacea; 99.9% gone. Wish I had take a before and after photo. I feel amazing.

*Day 13*

Woke up at 6:15 AM again, perked right up out of bed, even though I went to bed at midnight. I feel great, awesome energy, had another BM this morning, followed by a small one in the afternoon. Mood wise, I'm not doing great (tired of fighting SIBO), but other than that, today went fine. I did have 8 packets instead of 7; I was particularly hungry today and felt like I needed a boost and it really helped. Approaching the end; YES, stressed out to eat again, really hoping this works for longer than 3 months of symptom relief.

*Day 14*

Finally; I've reached two weeks. To get here, it wasn't that bad. Minus the struggles the first 2-3 days, and the constant concentration of working on being happy J , these 2 weeks cruised by. Great sleep; woke up around 7AM today. Lots of stomach rumbling again following by a decent bowel movement this morning. I had a liquid BM late in the afternoon. Concentration is great. I feel fantastic! Wow; 3rd time fasting coming to an end







I am going to continue one more day. I have enough product to make it 3-5 more days; instead I'm going to keep the product as a supplement on the side.

*Day 15*

I decided to do one more day. I took my prokinetic on an empty stomach last night to jump start things (seeing I haven't eaten in two weeks), and that was a mistake. I felt as if I was prepping for a colonoscopy from 2-4 AM. I literally must of lost a liter of fluid. But, I REALLY cleaned everything out. Nonetheless, today went incredibly well. I had to remind myself to drink my shakes, I wasn't hungry all day, the sun was out; so I went on a hike and took advantage of my first Spring sun. I had a celebratory espresso shot







.Tomorrow; I eat. I'm nervous, yet excited.

*Conclusion: *Overall; I lost a total of 2-3 Kilos. The Rosacea I was getting went away (wasn't expecting that)! I had a lot less stool activity this time fasting, even went several days without stool; and by the end, I was pushing to get stool. My bowels, once again, are extremely calm. I would say definitely mix vivonex with a blender, and make sure it's mixed quite well (mix for an extra 30 seconds). I did not use flavor packets; didn't feel I needed them. I had a bottle of mouthwash with me, and after each shake at work or home, I rinsed my mouth out right away.


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## Moises (May 20, 2000)

Brownish,

Congratulations. Sounds like it worked for you. I agree that you should abandon the idea that once you get better you can eat anything you want.Good luck.

By the way, after reading the Siebecker SIBO article. I decided to try some of the herbal antibiotics she recommends. I have been taking neem leaf for more than 2 weeks now. She says to take it for 30 days. She warned of die-off reaction and I am feeling it. Or something. In theory "die-off" means the bad guys are getting killed. We'll see.


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## Brownish72 (Aug 26, 2012)

Hey Moises;

"Die off" is just that, bacteria that die and are being washed out. They can get in the blood stream and the liver / kindey's filter them out. It causes flu like symptoms. I had it on day 8 and 9 of my fast.

I really hope it works for ya! Have you tried HCL supplements before?


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## Moises (May 20, 2000)

Herxheimer and die-off are a bit of a bitter joke for me. In theory, they are a good thing. That means when I stop the regimen, there should be a big improvement. But invariably, after I stop the regimen, I am no better off than before I started the regimen.

I think that HCl are a great thing for everyone to try. Jonathan Wright wrote a great book on it, Why Stomach Acid is Good For You. I have taken HCl supplements many, many times with different brands and dosages. I can tolerate high doses but they never helped me. But they, like digestive enzymes, do help large numbers of people, so they are definitely worth a try.


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## Brownish72 (Aug 26, 2012)

I know your on a low carb diet; but try studying her lists of foods a little bit, and really understand whats in that list., and see if incorporating the foods on the left side of the list little by little helps you out at all. Its safe, and an easy test. Although; I know you went months on a protein / fat diet with no veggies (don't know how you did it). But, I think our willingness to fast, and do these special diets, shows a motivation to cure ourselves, and its worth a try.


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## Brownish72 (Aug 26, 2012)

My first update; after, I will give an update about once a month.

I feel like I've concocted a SIBO equation, from a combination of multiple resources and then putting the information together.

The equation is long, and I wouldn't know how to write it out yet; so let me just say this. I'm following an unbelievably strict diet from an excel spreadsheet I put together based off of several resources. I add a new food every 3-4 days, starting with something as small as 20 grams, and working my way up.

The beginning was really tough, and it still is. But I just want to mention one thing;

*I feel incredible. *

I believe the combination of things I am doing is truly making a difference; from fish oil for anti-inflammatory reasons to tumeric tea for leaky gut issues.

Basically (the list is long); it's first and formost; getting rid of the infection + HCL + Curcuma + Colostrum + Strict individualized diet + excercise + spacing meals 4-5 hours a part + water between meals + the right enzymes + fish oil + lactobacillus = me feeling so good (and the equation is even longer than that if I were to break it down individually).

This is going to take time, but if I make it to one month, post fast without any diarrhea or gas / bloating, I could really be onto something. I do not want to give false promises to anyone; I'm being very honest on this forum, if this doesn't work, I will post that. I'm only finishing 10 days post fast. Only time will tell...


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## clarettennis (Oct 16, 2012)

I cannot wait to hear your results. Your story alone is an inspiration. Good luck. Sending out positive vibrations from the UK!


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## bellybelly (Apr 11, 2013)

Brownish, thanks for the insight. I've been trying to gather info from different sources too and was confused about FODMAP and SCD and how they fit together - the podcast link you provided was very helpful. Thanks! Turns out that the reason I felt horrible since I can remember is SIBO - quite the breakthrough a few months ago. But what a bitch to get diagnosis and treatment - my doctor looked at me as if I was from another planet when I said I suspected that I had SIBO. After travelling from Canada to the USA to see a gastroenterologist there and spending quite a lot of money, I finally found help. I did the antibiotics (Rifaximin + Neomycin) which brought SIBO down but didn't get rid of it. I'm now on day 7 of Vivonex Plus, but I'm reacting quite badly to it - diarrhea, gurgly stomach, so I'm down to 2 packets (600 calories) a day, so super lethargic and feeling very down. I'm determined to make it through another 2 weeks. Re: prokinetic - I was using erethromycin but am not a fan of taking a low dose antibiotic indefinitely. You mention Resolor - do you know of any literature/studies on this prokinetic?


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## bellybelly (Apr 11, 2013)

Haha awesome my swear was sensored.


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## Brownish72 (Aug 26, 2012)

Hey!

I will be working all day; but I'll plan on writing you both a message later


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## Brownish72 (Aug 26, 2012)

@BellyBelly

I took several years of testing for me to finally find out I had SIBO as well. Then with my SIBO diagnosis came all the 'wrong' treatments : immodium, PPI's, anti-sposmodic drugs, etc. Each of which, according to several recent studies, can only make SIBO worse. (but it may work for some, however it is typical that dosing always needs to be increased, other symptoms arise, and it just stops working)

Glad to hear you are on the Vivonex diet, and hang in there, I really hope it works for you. I did it three times, and* remember*; mix it with a blender, and make sure it is mixed really well. I saw a tremendous difference when doing this. Also; I had better results this time by spacing my shakes out 4-5 hours a part, and drank water in between. However; do not overdo the water drinking either because each time we pee, we are losing things such as sodium, and it can make us quite weak to have such low sodium levels.

Also; if your doctor thinks 600 calories is fine; than thats okay. But really, shoot for 1800 if you can. 2 shakes in early morning, 2 @ noon, and 2 around 7-8PM. Personally, I feel you will feel a big spike in your energy. As I wrote above, I've never felt like I had so much energy in my life; and I contribute that to boosting my vitamin / mineral levels thanks to Vivonex, and mixing it with a blender to ensure it was the best mix possible.

As for the diarrhea; there are several explinations. One; the drink isn't mixed properly. 2; bacterial die-off and damaged cells shedding ; Our stool is 50%+ dead stool, and on vivonex, the theory is that the bacteria are starved off, and washed out. Also, vivonex provides nutrients for cellular regeneration, and potentially damaged cells are being replaced by new ones, and the damaged ones get recycled out. .It may be the body's way of washing itself of all the dead bugs. I had diarrhea the first few days, and day 8-9 as well. Other than that; no diarrhea. 3. You may be reacting to the product. Some people do not support the Maltodextrine which is a manmade version of glucose. On a molecular level, its the same thing, and it should absorb really high in the small bowel (Like the first foot or two) leaving the rest (16+ft) to rest. At the same time; I just wanted to note, it seems that anyone I have spoken with that has fasted on Vivonex has had diarrhea either throughout the entire fast, or in sections. Yet; minus a few unfortunate cases, they always ended up with normalized breath tests meaning the treatment was a success.

I took low dose erythro for 90 days. 50MG is such a low dosage, it does not act as an antibiotic; it simply isn't strong enough to prevent the bacteria from replicating (which is how erythromycin works). However, this time, I am taking Resolor which is not an antibiotic. There is research available, but click on the link i provided in my intro about literature to read and its the last link i provided, right about my recommended podcasts. There you will be taken to a page, and scroll down to "prevention of SIBO" . You'll see resolor mentioned there, and it is available in Canada! That article was written by a SIBO specialist Dr Allison Siebecker, and her website is www.siboinfo.com You can actually can her via skype, and although its $$, it was worth every penny too me.

Truly consider taking more vivonex if you can. 600 calories is nothing, and it makes sense you are soo tired.

Best of luck, make sure you are keeping a journal every day of your symptoms, and most of all; stay positive. Go outside; garden, watch movies, do stuff to pass the time. There will be hard days; yet if you focus on the positive (whether it be you being proud of yourself to take the initiative to control your health) it will make the fast easier.

I cannot stress the importance of following a strict prevention plan, and it would be worth your time to call Siebecker to simply talk to her about it. Together, you two could design something to fit your needs. I fasted 3 times before I realized this; and you may be able to save yourself the time and energy of having to fast on Vivonex.

Best of luck


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## bellybelly (Apr 11, 2013)

hey brownish, thanks for all the advice, it's very much appreciated and so welcome, espeically right now that I'm feeling quite deprived/unwell. But all with a goal in mind . Wow, sounds like you really went through the mill in getting treatment that actually makes sense! I'm pleased to read that you're doing so well right now. And yes, I also believe that diet and prokinetic after treatment are really important. The question is WHAT diet, but that's becoming more clear now. I've bought colostrum from prosymbiotics already, have pancreatic enzymes and HCL with pepsin, but hadn't yet heard about the L-Glutamin. Would you recommend any specific brand?

Re: vivonex - it's good to hear that others react similarly. It's hard to know if it's a genuine sensitivity to the product or if it's die-off. I'm going to keep at it though because I bought so much of the stuff and it's not cheap! I spoke with a ND that I know who recommended that I eat some coconut oil straight in addition to the Vivonex. She said that it's antifungal and that it won't feed the bacteria. From what I know bacteria can't live off fat, they prefer carbs and if pressed they can go for protien. Also, Vivonex is way low in fat, I normally get so much more than 2% of my calories from high quality fats in my normal diet. I took a teaspoon of coconut oil today and I already feel less depressed, so good news. I just hope it really doesn't interfere with treatment. And yes, 600 calories isn't enough - I haven't talked to any doctors about this since cutting way down on the packets. I was 139 pounds before starting treatment and am down to 129 now - at 5'5" and female I'm stil normal according to bmi, but such rapid weightloss isn't great. I'm going to keep an eye on my vitals and try to make sure I don't die/cause serious damage, but I should be OK on really restricted calories. I know of people who have done water fasting for several weeks on end without major damage. Plus the added coconut oil will add some additional calories, so hopefully I won't lose too much more weight.

Allison Siebecker is awesome isn't she? It was an article written by her that clued me into the fact that I probably had SIBO. I think I will give her a call at some point, I'm just so broke now after spending so much cash on diagnosis and treatment. The Canadian healthcare system really let me down.

Finally, here is Dr. Pimentel talking about recent research in SIBO, in case you haven't seen it yet:






I'll keep an eye here to see what your progress is like on the post-treatment diet. I'll let you know how I do too .

Thanks again, your well thought out posts and replies really are helpful.


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## Brownish72 (Aug 26, 2012)

Glad to see your working with a doctor, and the fat thing makes mostly sense, but really pay attention to how you feel because bacteroides, a common anaerobic bacteria found it Westerners because of our diets, feeds off of Fats.


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## bellybelly (Apr 11, 2013)

@Brownish

Thanks, good to know. The ND I know doesn't actually have much of a clue about SIBO, I know more than she does- I actually was the person to inform her about it. I'm going to stop the coconut oil to be safe. It certainly didn't help my GI symptoms. I think it might have made me feel a little happier but hard to tell. Feeling really rough and weak, I literally can't get more than 600 calories in me of the Vivonex. Because I'm relatively young and healthy apart from the SIBO I think I'll be ok - make it through 3 weeks on limited calories. Aim = starve bacteria. I can outlive them


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## Brownish72 (Aug 26, 2012)

Hi everyone

*Mini update: I'm killin' it. Never had a post fast go this well. *

I did want to note: i had a flare up the other day, and got really down about it, and I'll be honest; I was quite nervous all this work was for nothing. However, it turns out it may have been linked to the HCL I am taking. I didn't realize that I am suppose to take it, and eventually start producing enough HCL on my own, and slowly taper off of it. I was wondering why all of a sudden I was getting this burning in my rectum area and loose, stools again with undigested foods (all things HCL should help alleviate) however; TOO much HCL can actually cause those symptoms; I lowered my dose of HCL and disappeared by my next bowel movement. So PHEW: got worried.

I have been struggling mid-day with a fatigue feeling. I have 'fixed' it by making my own electorlite drink: Water + Mineral Salts + 10G honey + 2 capsules opened and dissolved of a multivitamin from GIprohealth. I feel better within' 10-15 minutes of drinking it. The toughest part of what I am doing, on top of low carb, is really spacing meals 4-5 hours a part, with only water in between. My electorlite drink is not "just water", but at least it is a liquid, and its the only "non-water" drink I am having currently

I am not going to get my hopes up about this; I have been crushed my SIBO several times. I hope this time; it is me who crushed SIBO for good. My stool is better by the day, and my weight is finally gaining once again. My mood is better every day, and as long as I keep progressing; its all I need to keep a smile on my face.

I'll update in 2 weeks or so.


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## Brownish72 (Aug 26, 2012)

Well its been a month, finally

I hate to say this; Diarrhea has come back, and I have had it for the last week or so. Can't figure it out. It could be that the low-fodmap aproach with SCD + fasting got rid of so much flora, that the flroa we all need is non-existent. Thinking about adding some more fermentable foots, root veggies, to see if this could help, I got the idea from a podcast that came out a few days ago, explaining why GAPS, SCD, FODMAP, etc.. works great at first, then all of a sudden goes wrong, and it could be I am not giving my colon flora "enough to eat" if you will. At this point, the doctor recommended to add some more fermentable foods in my diet, such as peeled apples, avacado, etc..

I'll be honest, I'm pretty let down, and mentally not doing so great. Never been so sad about this is my life actually. But; don't really have a choice but to keep going

So overally, had 3 weeks of really awesome feeling, and could feel myself better and better daily, then it just hit.

I do not have my irritated colon feeling I used to have, no brainfog or headaches, but I fear they may come back.

Sorry about the sad update.


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## Moises (May 20, 2000)

Sorry to hear the bad news.

What conclusions do you draw from this? Do you think that you have SIBO and the Vivonex starves out the bacteria in the jejunum and ileum? Then when you go back to eating whole food there is residue in the jejunum and ileum? This fact, plus a motility defect permit bacteria to repopulate the jejunum and ileum?

In my book, apples and avocados do not sound like a good idea at all. Yes, they are fermentable. That means that they can ferment in your SI.

If I were you and I had experienced success with Vivonex, I would transition as slowly and gradually out of Vivonex as I could.

That means for the first few days after Vivonex I would eat nothing but meat. If meat did not cause any problems, I would then introduce foods with a very low fermentation potential one at a time. For each one I would stick with it for maybe 3 or 4 days before introducing a new food.

The great news is that you have confirmed that your food is causing your problem. You now need to get hyperanalytical about which foods cause the problem.

This requires great rigor and discipline. The beautiful thing about IBS is that it punishes us harshly when we get sloppy. That means it provides us with a lot of motivation to stay disciplined.

I don't mean to sound harsh. It is a big disappointment that you have had this setback. But you do need to remember that you have found a solution that works. If the elemental diet of Vivonex works, with careful planning, you should be able to construct a whole food diet that replicates the benefits of the elemental diet.

People get obsessed with the food lists of Gottschall, Robillard, and Pimentel. My view is that we need to find for ourselves our own food lists. The overall principle of Gottschall, Robillard, and Pimentel is sound. We need to stop consuming foods that are not completely absorbed. We need to stop consuming foods that leave a residue that is fermented by our own microbes.

The way to find this is to do an elimination diet. In your case, Vivonex works as an elimination diet. Now use those principles to customize a diet that works with your microbiome and your unique motility profile.


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## Brownish72 (Aug 26, 2012)

Thanks Moisis. You've been great support. I"ll pull through, and maybe its just a flare and SIBO is not back.. Only time can tell me that...

I started with a really high protein diet, actually subbing vivonex in to help get energy because i was feeling so crummy on a high protein diet, and 10-20 g carb/day diet. I added veggies once every 3-4 days, adding little by little (1OZ tomato first day, two 2OZ, then half tomato, etc..), creating a unique diet for me. Im up to b/t 50-100G / day if you do not count Vivonex (which I have stopped taking) . I would be below 50 if I didn't eat bananas, but I seem to tolerate them well (so I think ...)

I just decided to start immodium again, and I really didn't want to. But I'm gonna go nuts if this persists. I already feel 'better' from immodium. Actually just had BM and it was not diarrhea. Also; gonna say probiotics I was taking helped a lot 3 weeks post fast, then started potentially doing dammage. Yesterday, took probiotic with 5 strains of Bacillus species, and some bifido-bacteria, terrible smelling gas came back. So I'm gonna lay off that stuff. Probiotics are hit or miss, and can be beneficial. To my experience, for SIBO, they are helpful up to a certain point, but one needs to be careful with them.


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## Dr. Dani (Jan 18, 2013)

Hi, Good luck with the fast, let me know how it works and if it's helpful this time Yes, die off can make you feel worse before better, and from my expereince working with IBS sufferers, it's important to dig deeper into what's causing SIBO: chronic low-grade stress can cause changes in the gut's specialzied nervous and immune system, creating a disrupted flora and setting the stage for SIBO. To get rid of it for good, and to keep it from coming back along with all the bloating and gas, using an IBS-focused mindbody practice to retrain the brain-belly connection and 'fix' the damage on the gut's nervous and immune pathways is really important.


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## Moises (May 20, 2000)

Brownish72,

Something to consider. If I remember Robillard's most recent IBS book correctly, proteins tend to have low fermentation potential. But fats are even lower.

What I have been doing lately is severely restricting protein (a small amount of spinach daily), moderately restricting protein (aim for max 100-125 grams), and eating as much fat as I want (butter, olive oil, lard, whatever).

I recently bought a ketone meter and I am in ketosis basically all the time. If someone (like you, who just got off Vivonex which is almost entirely maltodextrin in calorie terms) ate the way I do they would feel lousy for a few weeks, because their cells had been using glucose exclusively for energy and now they have to adapt to using fat and making glucose out of the protein.

But, after a few weeks of this "ketoadaptation" period, as long as they don't fall out of ketosis by eating large amounts of carbs, they feel better.

I have done an experiment since I recently read about Imodium being associated with pancreatitis. I stopped my Imodium. I was going to replace it with Lomotil, but instead I have upped my fat intake and lowered my protein consumption. So far, my diarrhea seems to be under control.


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## Brownish72 (Aug 26, 2012)

Great to hear Moises

I'm b/t 100-180 g of protein a day (really depends on the day) Ideally; I want to be hovering around 100 or a little less. I upped my fat intake, thought make it was causing the hot feeling in my gut because of it triggering bile to be produced.

Its been over a month since I'm off vivonex; and I was tracking carbs like a hawk. Last week, I stopped weighing foods and doing all that, its exhausting. But after one month of analysis, I know im still in a low carb catagory, well below 100G / day. Any idea how many you are consuming?

I do not think I'm on the "on going ketosis", other than my body fat ratio has really dropped. I've maintained muscle and weight is roughly the same, but I tested around 2-3% fat; even the lady doing the test couldn't believe the results, and did the test twice. I want to add fat to my body, but its hard (the only people in the world who want to add fat to our bodies!!) But, I would not doubt with my higher fat / protein intake if I am transitioning. However; I do eat a banana in the morning (30 of carbs roughly, my main carb source)

I have not added butter to my diet yet; i'm on animals fats and coconut / olive oil. Going to be cooking duck and keeping the fat tonight for cooking. .I take a tsp of coconut oil with foods to help curb hunger. I do not get floating stools; meaning I am absorbing fats. I'll add butter tomorrow, see how it goes. And as always, do my usual 3-4 day challenge with it, increasing it each day.

Thanks again for the advice. I do want to eat less meat. And Meat can ferment, but it has a much lower fermentable index than veggies and fruits (simple because its broken down mainly in the stomach). My goal, as always, is NOT to stay on imodium. I absolutely hate taking it. After my 10 months or so of 6 imodiums / day, I told myself never again. But I needed to curb the diarrhea, and natural methods were not working.


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## Brownish72 (Aug 26, 2012)

Thanks Daniel:

I actually already finished fasting (read the first post on this thread) . I've done it 3 times now.

Vivonex is really effective for me; if I fast again however, I may look into another product, if not a homemade formula to control whats in it. I am not a fan of the ingredients in Vivonex, but luckily tolerate all of them really well

I'm working on stress; and actually going to start acupuncture tomorrow. Really excited to see how it goes. I also am big on meditation, and listening to relaxing music in the morning to start my day. But sometimes stress gets the best of us. However; you're right, and I am really really working on keeping my stress down.


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## Brownish72 (Aug 26, 2012)

Just wanted to note: i curbed my diarrhea quick with immodium. Took 2 in the morning yesterday, and 2 in the morning the day before yesterday.

Didn't need it today; Actually no BM by mid-afternoon. I have this motto burned in my head "Stasis promotes SIBO" . I've been reassured time and time again, immodium cuts down on water as well as volume, but does not effect motility. Then I read the opposite on the internet; but a family doctor and Siebecker reassured me its safe for flare ups. Nonetheless; i hate taking it. Glad its effective, and I want to keep it at that, effective for flare ups.

My mood is a lot better too since I wrote the post. Thanks Daniel for the encouraging note to stay positive! I am starting acupuncture today. Can't wait. Hope it goes well.

So day 32. No immodium. No headache, "No Nothin'! "  . Feel myself bouncing back, pray it keeps up!

Man SIBO is a tough one. A rollercoaster of a ride that one does not want to be on anymore. Really hope I can get off the ride sometime soon !


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## Brownish72 (Aug 26, 2012)

Only a week later: but I feel like updating. Don't want to "hog" the forum.

Acupuncture has been great. It may be mental; but its really relaxing, my acupuncturist is phenomenal, and it feels great to have someone really listen to me! She even asked me questions my GI would never ask, like do I have a "hot" feeling in my colon, and I looked at her and said: "No one has ever asked me that, nor have I been able to communicate that feeling". Long story short; mentally its great to talk to someone, and I do find the whole process relaxing. So I am going to continue.

Other than depression, I'm pulling through. In fact, the whole day gets determined on my bowel activity for the day. Today, my BM was 100% perfect; what a relief. Really... can't explain the weight off my shoulders after such a normal event for so many people.

Can't believe I used to take 6-8 immodium a day 1 year ago. Now 2 constipates me for literally days. Maybe thats a good sign..? Anyways, I either do not take immodium, or I take 1 in the morning with food. Also decided to continue prokinetic at 1/4 the dosage recommended, to atleast ensure things are not sitting and fermenting.

This is day 37 post fast. Still strict SCD + low fodmap (although going to buy an apple @ farmers market today and eat 1/4 cooked apple of the next 4 days). Going to ferment some goat or sheep milk Kefir today. Still only adding a new food every 2-4 days.








Here's a good song to cheer ya'll up :


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## Brownish72 (Aug 26, 2012)

Day 50 post fast (day 65 post starting vivonex)

Still feeling overall: Pretty Good. I have 0-1 bowel movement(s) per day. I never get mucous / water in my stool, ,never undigested food either, and its either 100% normal, to loose on random days, .It flucuates from each bowel movement. I take immodium once or twice a week, not everyday; and I'll take either 1 or 2 capsules.

I dont have excess gas, but when I do have gas, its really fowl.. thats been going on for 2-3 weeks on and off.

I've been really interested in this website: www.chriskresser.com - His podcasts are really great, and he has a open approach to treating IBS. I have started more fermentable foods due to his advice.

I feel pretty good still. I have added more foods to my diet: Aspargus, pineapple, hard cheeses, and more fermented dairy (up to maybe 1-2 spoonfuls per meal) I do not get any bloating / gas / pain from foods. if i get gas, its food reaching my colon, and its not until hours later.

I started taking some cinammon oil a few days ago via advice of a pharmacist here to help with 'flares' and to potentially help gut flora, I put it in small doses in capsules, and take it before eating. I had a flare last week; thought I might want to try something new. I cannot give it a thumbs up or down. But, I can say that day I started, the loose stool has stopped; but I have headaches on and off. Dr. Siebecker mentions this is a side effect of taking these types of herbal antiobiotics.

Mood is getting better, depression is better too. Acupuncture is incredible. Also been researching fecal microbiota transplant a lot. I will be having it done in 3 weeks! I have had extensive stool tests from Genova done, showing I am missing certain Anerobic bacteria strains, and stool PH is acidic, as well as I have an extremely low count of short chain fatty acids. Just came across an article that mirobes responsible for producing short chain fatty acids are also the ones that are anti-diaheral; hence (maybe) why I am IBS-D. Really wish my FMT was tomorrow, but I have to wait. Excited to update on that and see how it goes. It may result in antibiotics before the procedure; or fasting again. I have not decided what I'll do; I am literally scared of antibiotics after this whole mess they have gotten me into. But, fasting too, wipes out gut flora; so I guess pick one or the other...and fasting is not fun.


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## Moises (May 20, 2000)

Brownish,

You are getting FT? You are the man! Please keep us informed of every detail. Yes, I would do it tomorrow if I could.

By the way, I am currently on a water fast. I am thinking maybe the Vivonex didn't work for me because I had bacteria throughout the entire duodenum. So, the Vivonex was feeding bacteria before it could get absorbed. If I eat nothing, then I won't feed any bacteria.

Only problem is that I am taking a few thyroid pills each day and they have sugar and starch. Other than that,I just drink water. I did this years ago, before I knew about SIBO, and it didn't help at all. But I only fasted for 7 days. In recent days someone posted a link to PubMed where IBSers fasted for 10 days and showed significant improvement. And, of course, Pimentel prescribes 14 days of fasting.

I'd rather eat feces than eat nothing. But I don't currently have a good source for feces. So, I am eating nothing.

Back to your case.

When you do the Vivonex do you feel completely cured at the end of the Vivonex regimen? Do you then feel that your condition deteriorates?

Or, do you think that even with the Vivonex you never get fully cured?


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## Brownish72 (Aug 26, 2012)

Hi moises.

best of luck on the water fast. I literally am in a state where I couldn't fast again, mentally that is. Just the thought of it bothers me, yet when I read my journal, I read how happy I was fasting. Actually, came across another podcast talking about amino acids in combination w/ carbs making seratonin, making us feel better, etc.. Interesting.

I do feel cured when getting done with vivonex.  I feel awesome actually, so good that it is what motivated me to do it for a 3rd time, and I still am incredible compared to before. Truly; diarrhea 20X / day , all liquid, brain fog, yellow / bile stools, floating stools, rectal irritation, poor concentration, fatigue beyond belief; its all gone. Although, must note; had a loose stool today :/ and 2 of the stool were floating. 1st time this has happened to me so far. Hope its of no worry; I eat a high fat diet because its where the bulk of my calories are coming from right now.

Then I seem to slowly digress over the following months, no matter WHAT i do. I have been 100% strict to this fodmap SCD approach, and maybe thats the problem. We need colonic bacteria, and fasting wipes it out, and low fodmap is providing little to no food to the colon.. I cannot, for the life of me, re-establish proper gut flora. This is 15+ months of SCD (a good portion of that 100%) + fermented foods, and it just ...wont work fully. But I can truly say though: the SCD diet saved me from going down the most miserable path, and I am so happy I stumbled across Gotschall's book.. To finally get gut flora right is why I am going to do fmt, and Im soo thankful I have found a local resource in my area who may be willling to do it. Im coming back to the states to get this done; its never been heard of here in Switzerland!!

.I really thought siebeckers approach was bulletproof; and uptodate, its the best approach / success I have had with SIBO so far. But, there is no 'one solution' to SIBO. I need to stay positive and thankful that at least, I can leave the house / go to school / study without worrying "is my stomach going to hurt.."


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## Brownish72 (Aug 26, 2012)

As promised: A continued update: I am going to try and do this atleast once a month.

Day 60 post fast. Day 75 if you count fasting.

Medication: None. I put down the prokinetic. Don't think I need it anymore. If I take immodium, it literally constipates me for days. So; I only take it if something comes up, which is really less and less. Looking at my journal, I have come an extremely long ways. Still got a ways to go too......

Supplements: Either none, or I take L-glutamine, and 1G of Colostrum powder. I might take one multivitamin if I feel like it, but I prefer getting vitamins via diet over supplements. For example, I eat liver once a week for all its awesomeness inside 

I have had a lot of ups and downs with this last post fast, but I am more and more figuring it out. Still 100% SCD + fodmap, however, I have added more fermentable foods to my diet, and I upped the amount of fermented dairy, but not by a lot. Maybe a full spoonful per meal , if I remember.

I have 0-1 Bowel movements a day. Todays BM was 100%. For a period of about 3 weeks, I had the worse smelling gas when I had it, although it wasn't often, and it gradually went away as I added more fermented dairy.

I get headaches occasionally, and they hurt pretty bad. I am also under an unbelievable amount of stress from life; some big events are coming up. But I am working on staying calm, and remembering that my health is the most important thing. Staying happy, and in a positive mood, is one of the best things I can do.

I had diarrhea last week. I think I was eating a too high fat oriented diet. That particular day I blended a raw egg yolk with fermented heavy cream, and I may have even added some oil. 8 hours later, it flushed out. So I trimmed the fats way down, and although I am struggling to maintain weight, I'm getting a better hand of what I can and cannot eat.

I have mentioned this previously, and I will mention it again, I am doing a Fecal Microbiota Transplant very soon. I do feel my SIBO is still gone, and most of my issues are coming from the colon. But this is just a 'gut' feeling  .Also, if i can work through some loopholes, I will be having it done via colonoscopy. I have decided to do a SIBO test before having it done, to make sure infection is still clear. I sure feel like it is, because despite the loosing weight, etc. I haven't ever felt this good while having sibo

Thanks ya'll. And for those who are thinking about fasting on Vivonex, ask away!


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## HNat (Apr 7, 2012)

Good luck with the fecal transplant


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## Amada (Jun 23, 2013)

Hi everyone,

I started the Vivonex Fast this morning. I am sad and scared. It really tastes extremely bad. It almost made me vomit. I figured it's better to drink it with a straw while not breathing, that way, you almost don't taste it.

Here is my story. I was diagnosed with IBS about 8 years ago. However, I always felts this diagnosis was wrong because I don't have D or C. My one and only problem is that I am bloated ALL THE TIME. It is not painful, phsyicaly. But it is painful psychologicaly. It affects every aspect of my life. But the worse is that I never got to see my belly grow normaly for my two pregnancies. I couldn't tell if the bulge was from the baby or the bloating!

I tried a lot of diets over the years. The one that worked the best was the candida diet (even though I'm not even sure candida really does exist, I'm thinking it's probably something else, like fructose intolerance). I also tried FODMAP for three months. I stopped farting, but the bloating was still pretty bad. So after researching the internet and reading pimentel's book, I tried xifaxan for 2 weeks, but kept a normal diet. Nothing happened. It did not work at all.

I also tried Resolor (resotran here in canada). It completely cured the bloating in the upper part of my belly (stomach i guess) but did nothiing for my bowels. I did not look pregnant but my belly still was bloated and had a really weird shape! Flat with a big bulge below my navel. anyways, I suspect I might have SIBO, since eating no sugars has helped, and so this is why I'm trying the fast. I don't really have high hopes, but at least I will have tried it.

Brownish, I read in one of your posts that at some point you felt good for 5 months. If I can at least start with that....just to get some relief. Just to think about something else, enjoy summer, no being afraid people would ask me if I'm pregnant...

But I have no idea how I will get through the 2 weeks.


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## Brownish72 (Aug 26, 2012)

I found my blog. Haven't been back in a long time.

So i ended up doing a Fecal Transplant, about 10 of them.

I had really, really promising results. Right about the same time though, my SIBO was coming back. I thought maybe if I fixed my irregulary colon bacteria, this would fix things in the small bowel. Unfortunately, this was not my case.

So I have, for a 4th time, decided to fast again. On day 3. Really; the fast isn't bad at all. Its just annoying, but I'm not struggling one bit. My doctor suggested antibiotics for 10 days to kick SIBO down, i said 'ok' outloud, and 'no way' in my head. Fasting is much more effective, and I know it works for me.

The day I stop fasting , I will be restarting FMT. So my approach this time : Clear Small Bowel of Infection, and get Large Bowel repopulated with a healthy, diverse flora via Fecal Transplant.

Side note: I ended up doing FMT at home. There is a large, very supportive community out there that helped me through it. In the end, it is super easy, takes less than a minute, and it made a HUGE difference for me. I wouldn't fast again if I didn't think this was giong to maybe help.


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## Nymue (Apr 2, 2013)

Brownish, I'm interested - where did you find this FMT community? I've heard a lot about about fecal transplants, I think I first heard about them on Chris Kresser's podcast (I am also a huge fan of his). I've been struggling for 2 years with no relief and have thought that perhaps fecal transplants might be worth looking into, but haven't the first idea of how to go about it.


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## ReRe64 (Sep 13, 2013)

Hi Brownish72- I am so impressed with your determination. How are doing right now? Can you tell if you think the FMT was truly effective? I find that if I have a D flare, I take a magnesium + calcium supplement and if firms things right up. Have you tried that too? My gas pains seem to do much better when I use HCL/bentine. However, I am recently having to use 4 to 5 per meal. It seems like too many and I was doing okay with 2 before. I would love to find a natural pro kinetic. I use oregano oil also, but want to get off of that too. I do hope you are better.


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## Soho601 (Nov 5, 2013)

Amada,

I have the exact same symptoms as you. Lower intestinal bloating like you wouldn't believe, 24/7. No other symptoms other than mild constipation. The bloating is slightly better when I wake up in the morning, but as soon as I eat something, within half an hour - BLAM! - I look 5 months pregnant! Even a sip of lemon water or a tiny bowl of breakfast oats with almond milk makes my stomach instantly swell to the point where it looks like it contains medium-sized watermelon. This has been going on for 8 months and is extremely depressing.

I'm 35 years old, 5 foot seven, 130lbs, don't smoke or drink, exercise regularly, eat extremely healthily (I'm an organic gardener and a chef), and have made no lifestyle changes that might have triggered the bloating. Before the bloating started, I had a board-flat stomach my entire life.

Doctor originally said IBS, but I pushed for a hydrogen breath test & was diagnosed with SIBO a month ago.

I've cut all dairy, caffeine, sugars and fruit out of my diet for one month to no effect. Tried entric coated peppermint oil, fennel tea, home-made ginger tea, coconut oil and enzymes with no change in symptoms. The online jury seems split about probiotics & yogurt so I've cut those out too. I heard of a guy who supposedly cured his SIBO by eating 2 cloves of garlic three times a day, which I tried. It cured my constipation (if you like explosive diarrhea instead) but gave me such extreme gas and extra bloating that I had to stop after a few days.

I have a doctor apt today and am torn between asking for the standard antibiotic treatment for SIBO or the Vivonex. Cost would be the main concern, the antibiotic option would be five times the charge for the Vivonex. I am also worried about taking antibiotics, as taking the antibiotic Keflex ten years ago gave me an extremely bad case of Pityriasis Rosea that gave me a rash over my entire body (including my face) for the best part of a year.

Antibiotics would be Rifaximin 550Mg 3X a day for 14 days, plus Neomycin 500Mg 2X a day for 10 days, plus a follow-up treatment with VSL-3 probiotic to restore gut flora once the antibiotic treatment period is over.

If anyone has any advice I'd love to hear from you. Thanks in advance for your time!


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## Brownish72 (Aug 26, 2012)

hey there

Good luck with the Antibiotics, and its great to hear you are doing the double approach with Rifaximin + Neomycin. It does seem to have more success that Rifaximin alone according to a few studies

By the way, without a doubt, ask for a "prokinetic agent" I have written about it extensively here, but long story short, SIBO de-activates the Migrating Motor Complex by causing nerve damage to the cells that normally turns these muscle movements on. Its been proven in a lab in California, and two well known doctors. Dr Pimentel and Dr Siebecker (Both experts uniquely in SIBO) have observed that without a prokinetic agent, SIBO relapses

This page, at the bottom, offers the different types of Prokinetic drugs recommended by Dr Siebecker

http://www.siboinfo.com/prevention.html

Best of luck. If antibiotics dont work, an elemental diet may be your next step. However, lets hope they work for you


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## ReRe64 (Sep 13, 2013)

Before going on the antibiotics and going as so far as to do an elemental diet, have you tried just an elimination diet? For a while I had been doing a paleo diet (no dairy or grains), but met with only limitied sucess.

So I decided to remove eggs also and have had great improvement. I think a lot of the time if you dont heal the inflamation of the small intestine you wont have the enzymes to digest or properly move foods through the intestinal wall. This will leave foods for the colon bacteria to ferment. As soon as you eat the MMC will cause the gas to get pushed further together down towards the large intestines, that's why it bloats up.

I would removed all fodmaps (no fuctose, no sugar alcohols, no d-mannose (cranberries) or raisins, etc) dairy, gluten, eggs and nuts. Eat only veggies and safe meat (organic turkey and chicken mostly). Add the bone broths for soup or alone.

You have to heal and seal the intestine. The herbal "intestinal sooth and build" and "gastro health" from Nature's Sunshine http://www.amazon.com/Intestinal-Soothe-Build-100-caps/dp/B000L6OS3I/ref=sr_1_1?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1383742468&sr=1-1&keywords=nature%27s+sunshine+intestinal ; http://www.amazon.com/Natures-Sunshine-Gastro-Health-Conc/dp/B000J3FKZ8/ref=sr_1_1?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1383742527&sr=1-1&keywords=nature%27s+sunshine+gastro+health helps me alot, as does Gia's Herbs' "Gas & Bloating" (fennel and charcoal) http://www.amazon.com/Gaia-Herbs-Bloating-Supplement-Capsules/dp/B0036THM9E/ref=sr_1_1?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1383742353&sr=1-1&keywords=gaia+herbs+gashelp with the gas.

After a while, re-intoduce foods one at a time and you have to wait at least 4 days for a reaction.

I hope this helps. IBS is a complex problem, not easily fixed, as you all are well aware.. Good Luck


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## annap417 (Nov 29, 2013)

Hey Brownish,

I know it's been a while, but I'm curious how you're doing? I'm considering an elemental diet, but it's super expensive (or can I somehow get it covered by insurance?). I was diagnosed with candida and SIBO and I've been on an elimination diet for months now. I started having severe problems after I had surgery and was put on a heavy duty NSAID. Started to have issues with histamine so I began taking HistDAO which saved my life. Unfortunately, I seem to be responding this way to all foods now, despite the HistDAO. I'm unsure if it's my own body overproducing histamine or if I'm starting to react to salicylates. At this point I don't have much else to eliminate from my diet so I figured...elemental diet?

Any thoughts?


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## gracene (Aug 1, 2014)

Hi all, I have been reading about the Vivonex -- the ingredients are awful and all genetically modified. I would seriously try to find something different to take if possible. If you read about GMO's and the dangers to our bodies, it is awful. Cancer and tumors are the biggest risk. I would try to stay away from GMO's and find another option besides the Vivonex.

I was looking online and found this one: http://www.metagenics.com/mp/medical-foods/gi-sustain

My doctor gave me the Ultra Inflamex 360 and that has been working good for me so far.

When it comes to medical foods -- I would stay away from the "Big Name" companies like Nestle -- They are just out for the money and don't really care about your health. I mean, the first ingredient is "Maltodextrin" -- Ugh -- Horrible.


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## PunkRockGirl (Sep 5, 2016)

Hey Brownish,

Wondering if you have an update to how you're doing. Any consistent improvements? How well did following your excel sheet of food and supplements work out?

Hope you're still checking this forum!

PRG


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