# Aching Joints and Constant Tiredness : IBS?



## Clair (Sep 16, 2000)

Just wondering if many IBS'ers experience aching joints and tiredness?Every now and then either my knees, hips or ankles ache for no reason.I'm also feeling tired all the time - do you think it could be Fibromyalgia?I know my gastroenterologist has checked various pressure points on my visits and not found anything of concern - and i haven't mentioned it because the aching only happens a couple of times a week and I haven't wanted to mention it in case it was just coincidence.perhaps my joints don't like cold weather - perhaps I'm just being a woried old hyperchondriac - what do you think? Should I mention it?Clair


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## mitchell goldstein (Apr 6, 1999)

have you had a rheumatoid profile(blood test) or any xray's?[This message has been edited by mitchell goldstein (edited 03-15-2001).]


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## lou026 (Jan 3, 2001)

I felt fine all day and then all of a sudden...out of the blue I get a D attack. Along with it came a headache a backache and aches everywhere imaginable!! It is so strange. I wonder if it is because my body tenses up so much during this time an sends pain signals all over my body. I just feel like ####!! So the answer is yes to your question and sorry to go on so long but my hubby is tired of my complaining and just needed to air out. Thanks lou026


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## Guest (Mar 16, 2001)

See my post below on Symptoms because I experience many of the same problems and thet coincide with IBS-D attacks. I also now believe that I have candida and some thing there is a strong relationship between the two (candida and IBS). You might check some websites on candida.


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Clair, a lot of reasons for this perhaps. However, with IBS some people can get back pains or pains around the body from being under constant stress from the IBS. Not mental stress but physical stress and it can make the skeletal system and muscles tense and hence cause pain in various parts of our bodies, which also plays into being tired a lot.------------------I work with Mike and the IBS Audio Program. www.ibshealth.com www.ibsaudioprogram.com


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

I meant to add this is one reason you can benefit from excersise and relaxation techniques and breathing techniques.------------------I work with Mike and the IBS Audio Program. www.ibshealth.com www.ibsaudioprogram.com


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## Guest (Mar 16, 2001)

I have been seeing a chiropractor who has explained that some systems are prone to inflammatory problems, and IBS, arthritis etc are just outcomes of a system that is easily stirred up and inflamed. Not that that really fixes anything (but explained a lot about what I'm going through at the moment) She recommends a low acid diet, avoiding acidic fruits, esp tomatoes and bananas, eat more melons, peaches etc and try immune-system boosts like non-acid Vit C (I'm also taking Gingko Biloba).Kylie


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

In IBS there is no inflammation. However, in IBD there is an there is an association with arthritis.------------------I work with Mike and the IBS Audio Program. www.ibshealth.com www.ibsaudioprogram.com


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## Tlyon (Feb 20, 2001)

I too have ben having all those nasty aches and pains. I thought that I was going crazy! Mine are practically my whole left side. Shoulder, under arm, ribs, waist, hip, knee. I thought that I should go to my doctor and tell him about it, but I have been complaining so much about everything I swear I am almost ashamed. My husband is a firm believer in getting up and moving around. I am hoping when the weather warms up the pool will start working some magic. But right now the thought of that treadmill is not very appealing. I am going to a chiropractor and it helps for a while, but then a day or two later I am back where I started. Sorry for the complaining, I had a really bad night, kept waking up and couldn't get comfortable.


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## HipJan (Apr 9, 1999)

Count me in as far as aches and pains! 'Course, I also had aches and pains (spinal/nerve issues apparently) well before IBS ever surfaced.


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## LindaR322 (Aug 21, 2000)

I have noticed that all of a sudden, my fingers shoulders and ankles seems to hurt I did not associate it with IBS D, but do you think I should call the GI doctor? My husband thought maybe the meds I'm on might have something to do with it. (I'm on Donnatol, prilosec, lomotil.)


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## JenS (Dec 18, 2000)

Constant aches and pains can be a sign of fibromyalgia. Check those boards, too.


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## TaniaF (Jan 23, 2001)

I do have fibromyalgia. It was confirmed by a rheumatologist with trigger point testing of the muscle areas. There is no blood test for the disorder/ or can it be seen on X-rays. Rheumies and physical therapists are good at diagnosing FM. IBS is a side effect of FM as well as chronic fatigue. Luckily mine is not severe, I can function daily without pain medications. It flares, some days are better than others. However, there are times where the FM is uncomfortable and keeps me home instead of out and having fun. So does the IBS too. I live with my heating pad. See if either heat or ice helps you.


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## Guest (Mar 16, 2001)

I can't really say that I have many aches and pains (well, except in the stomach), but I am tired most of the time. I seem to go to bed tired and get up some days even more tired than when I went.


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## Clair (Sep 16, 2000)

Thanks for all the posts.Hipjan - I've also had joint aches and pains way before my IBS - but for some reason I just accepted it as normal - ten years ago I had glandular fever - and I always just thought my tiredness and aches and pains came from that - so didn't think too much about it.Just lately it seems to have got worse, where I can have realy bad aches in my joints and muscles in my legs for seemingly no reason.I suppose it could be exarcebated by the IBS - but my body just can't seem to cope with anything nowadays - its totally pathetic.I've had to start working part-time because I get too exhausted working full-time hours.I'll mention it to my regular doctor and see what he thinks.


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## Nina M (Feb 10, 2001)

You are in the FMS/CFS/IBS basket. They are interconnected. IBS folks might not have the symtoms of FMS/CFS. But CFS/FMS people invariably have many of the symptoms of IBS. It's the gut, the problem is in the gut and don't believe anybody who try's to tell you otherwise. The tragedy is the medico's are not getting to the root of the problem. Quote "It's not that they can't see the solution, it's that they can't see the problem". (Quote taken from Jackie's website on 'Dientamoeba fragilis'. Jackie posts on this board and if you go back about three-four days you will see her posting and how to access her site. Might not be the bug that is causing your problems, but the site is worth looking at).


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## SLBEL3 (Jun 1, 2000)

I have been diagnosed with FM after 6 years of IBS and other problems. I am going to give you a list that contains most of the symptoms of Fibromyalgia. Check off all those that bother you, if it seems that there is a significant amount of symptoms then I suggest you go to your doctor with the list and talk to him about it. there are things on the list you may see and think that it was such an insignificant problem before that you never thought to complain about it. So be honest when looking at the list. Good luck and let us know how it turns out. Here's the listClinical Features of FMS90-100%Generalized painFatigueStiffnessMorning fatigue70-90%Post-exertional malaiseSleep disturbancesMorning stiffnessHeadachesTendernessSwollen feeling in TissuesNumbness and tinglingCognitive impairmentDizzinessSensitivity to noise, smell and stressDysmenorrhea Dry mouth50-70%Irritable bowel syndromeBlurred visionAffective lability (mood swings)Heart palpitationsCold extremitiesFeverous FeelingAllergies15-50%Restless legsMuscle twitchesItchy skinHearing disturbancesNight sweatsMigrainesBreathing ProblemsInfection pronenessSkin manifestations (rashes)Interstitial cystitisTMJ dysfunctionMultiple chemical sensitivities------------------It can only get better from here I hope!Sandi


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## AZmom1 (Dec 6, 1999)

I too have FM, IBS, and anxiety disorder. One does not cause the other. Rather, they are related in that they are all due to an imbalance of serotonin. My fibro was helped tremendously by Zoloft, one of the SSRIs. These have been known to help IBS and anxiety as well.Fibromyalgia should be diagnosed by a rhumetologist, not a GI. Avoid activities that stress the joints. I've had to give up housecleaning








, bicycle riding, weight lifting, jogging, jump-roping, you'd be surprised at the things that stress the joints. I even had to change professions which really helped improve my FM.AZ


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## Guest (Mar 18, 2001)

I agree with the experienced fibro people above - definitely go to a rheumatologist who is familiar with fibro to get a definitive diagnosis. Then there are many different meds and med combos you might try. I started with fibro (I had all of the symptoms) then developed the IBS and Raynaud's phenomenon - that was over ten years ago. While my quality of life is not perfect, I have found ways to deal with it all and enerally am in better shape now than when I was first diagnosed. Good Luck!


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## mitchell goldstein (Apr 6, 1999)

Momg, have you seen your rheumatologist recently? when was the last time you had a rheumatoid profile blood test? the raynaud's phenomenon is commonly seen with connective diseases and it can present before you test positive for them. i post this not to alarm you but to make you sure your health care is up to date. i have a little bit of knowledge in this area but not alot so i took the liberty to post this message. as we have all witnessed on this bulletin board, a little bit of knowledge can be more dangerous than none!!!


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## Nina M (Feb 10, 2001)

One can have fibromyalgia etc., diagnosed by whoever you like, but the problem will not be solved until they address the problem in the gut. At best they will find ways to "help" reduce symptoms and make life a little more tolerable. Not to be scorned, a blessing for those fortunate enough to get relief. Zoloft works because of the serotonin interaction it brings about, a task normally performed by GI bacterial flora. When they finally get around to addressing where the problem really lies, and come up with ways to fix it, (and there are medico's already doing it) the zoloft or whatever else is presently helping you will no longer be needed.


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## Guest (Mar 18, 2001)

Thanks for your concern, Mitchell but I have had all the tests done for rheumatoid, osteo, lupus, ms, etc.... Definitely not any of those, thankfully.... The Raynaud's only bothers me during the winter - it virtually disappears once spring comes. I walk a couple of miles on the treadmill at least 4 days a week and I dance as well so I am generally healthy and deaing with all problems pretty well.


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## Nomie (Mar 22, 2000)

Nobody mentioned anything about thyroid. You should really be tested for this. It's just a blood test and doctors overlook this all the time.


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## Clair (Sep 16, 2000)

Thanks for all the info...I'm definitely going to discuss this my doctor - even if it is just to rule it out.I've had achy joints and tiredness and morning fatigue for ten years - could be coincidental - but FM would explain why I've also had sleep disturbances all that time and has got worse since the IBS.I've had the blood test for thyroid problems that was one of the first tests my doctor carried out - and that came back negative - so its definetely not that.I just thought my lack of energy and general fatigue were as a result of the glandular fever all those years ago.I'll let you know what I find out.... Clair


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## AZmom1 (Dec 6, 1999)

Nina,I'm not sure where you got your information from. IBS and fibro are related, but still can be treated separately. A good deal of treating the symptoms of IBS and fibro is changing behaviors.My IBS is totally under control after completing Mike's hypnotherapy tapes. My fibro is under control as well with Zoloft and change in behavior. My fibro was mainly a result of stress I would put on my joints. I had a picture framing business, and was constantly lifting, twisting, and turning large, heavy framed artwork. Also, I participate in martial arts, and the jump roping, hitting heavy bags, push-ups and other joint stressing activities aggravated my joints. Once I quit those activities, I was much improved. My fibro improved 18 months before I even began hypnotherapy for IBS. I have also noticed that my fibro does act up when I do something that stresses the joints. I find even riding a bicycle too much, and end up with pain in my shoulders and wrists. Just tripping over the curb will cause pain throughout my body.Noreen's advice is good as well, have your thyroid checked.AZ[This message has been edited by AZmom1 (edited 03-18-2001).]


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## atp (Jan 18, 2001)

I'm amazed at the number of symptoms attributed to FM. It seems like a lot of them could be attributed to other things.I have the following, at some time or anotherI copied and pasted the list, and deleted what I don't have.) I've also added comments... I guess I'm thinking that if a person has a lot of those symptoms, but there are other probable reasons for them, then it's not something to worry about, I hope. --Fatigue (when you can't fall asleep at night and don't get enough hours of sleep, you're tired during the day)--Stiffness--Morning fatigue (night owl, mornings i'm always exhausted for a while)--Sleep disturbances (does insomnia count as one?)--Morning stiffness (seems like laying down for a while makes muscle aches worse, especially depending on the position I was laying in. Plus it takes the body a little while to warm up, right?)--Headaches (TMJ and lots of sinus headaches, plus some stuff in the air at work that gives me headaches a lot)--Numbness and tingling (at times)--Cognitive impairment (I attribute this to the fatigue or headaches when it happens)--Dizziness (low blood sugar, low blood pressure, and fatigue can cause this)--Sensitivity to noise, smell and stress (of course i'm sensitive to stress, and some noises and smells increase it... what is extreme sensitivity?)--Dysmenorrhea (ever since period #1)--Dry mouth (lots of meds list this as a side effect, plus I'm a mouth breather, especially at night)--Irritable bowel syndrome (of course)--Affective lability (mood swings) (yep i'm a moody gal at times... not sure what is considered too much of a mood shift, tho)--Cold extremities (i think stress can cause this too)--Feverous Feeling (get this way when i am really tired, or having an IBS attack)--Allergies (don't most people have some?)--Muscle twitches (get muscle tics when i'm exhausted sometimes, and also get twitchy muscles when i'm trying to fall asleep)--Itchy skin (the air is very dry in the wintertime, and i have sensitive skin)--TMJ dysfunction (yep, i've got that all right! i had significant structural problems causing this, which were largely fixed with orthodontics, but my jaw learned a lot of bad behavior in the meantime, plus i'm a clencher)--Multiple chemical sensitivities (is this talking about meds, or about that some (nasty) photo chemicals will give me a little contact dermatitis, and some fabric softeners, etc. with perfumes in them will give me a rash? i do seem to be more sensitive to say, stinky markers and solvents, than the average person)Comments?Incidentally, I saw a new PCP Friday, who thinks my sore back and other occassional aches and pains, insomnia, and IBS could all be partially attributed to underlying stress/anxiety, and she wants me to give Zoloft a try. I'm a little cautious about it, but Eric's post about brain chemicals helped explain some things to me, and I'll start taking the samples I got after I'm off my cramp pain med, which makes me slightly loopy.


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## Clair (Sep 16, 2000)

I agree - having some of those symptoms does not automatically mean you have FM.Funny - I seem to have had the vast majority of these too - yet Fibromyalgia (Did I spell it right?) has never even been mentioned to me as a possible diagnosis.Even when I've had lengthy discussions about my disturbed sleep patterns and experiencing abdominal discomfort in the night - it wasn't even mentioned.However, what causes me to suspect this could be possibly what I might have is that for the last ten years I've experienced the vast majority of those symptoms but without the bowel problems - they only started for real 9 months ago.FM explains so many things that I experience that are not considered text book IBS symptoms and that have my gastroenerologist baffled - what tests can rheumatologists carry out to ascertain if you have FM or not?


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## AZmom1 (Dec 6, 1999)

The rheumetologist will do an exam and blood tests to rule out other problems, such as arthritis. He will sort of poke you in eighteen spots, looking for tenderness. I think it is if you have eleven tender spots you will be diagnosed with fibromyalgia.For me, fibro is more than aches and pains. It is pain to the point where I could not lift my arms. I could not roll over in bed. It results in a sleep disorder because of the pain. It was like my muscles would freeze if I didn't move every 20 minutes. I slept with ice packs on my shoulders. I couldn't lift the frying pan in the kitchen, or a gallon of milk. Like IBS is not occasional D, Fibro is more than muscle aches.AZ[This message has been edited by AZmom1 (edited 03-18-2001).]


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## Nina M (Feb 10, 2001)

I'm pleased you have had so much success Azmom and I never knock the theory that "if it's working for you, do it". But it does seem as though the zoloft was instrumental in getting many of the fibro symptoms under control. As one doctor said to me when about to prescribe it "we don't know why it works for CFS/FMS, we just know that it very often does". I I didn't accept the prescription because I knew I didn't need an anti-depressive, even one that had the possibly positive, but not understood side effect of 'helping'. I later found out how and why it worked,(for many, not for all). I also gained a much better understanding of why I, a previously healthy, fit, energetic person had been reduced to a slow, painful, exhausted shadow of the person I had been. The base problem is in the gastrointestinal tract. It is so clear as to be indisputable, despite all the previous tests and examinations which showed 'nothing' other than a case of H.Pylori, (cleared up, problems remained). I now have a gastro who agrees with me and I only hope that with his pioneering and innovative techniques I can reverse the situation and get the gut bacterial flora back into a state of balance. He's done it for others, I just hope it can be done for me.


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## AZmom1 (Dec 6, 1999)

Sorry Nina, I have to strongly disagree that the gut is primarily the problem. Leading IBS doctors do NOT believe IBS is a matter of an imbalance of bacteria in the gut. There are people that have fibromyalgia, without having IBS. Just because these disorders are found together does not mean one causes the other. I had IBS probably for 10 years before I got any fibro symptoms. And I got rid of my fibro symptoms long before I got rid of my IBS symptoms. Perhaps you misunderstood, but I do credit Zoloft with helping my fibro, as well as behavioral changes. It has no effect on my IBS however.The two disorders, along with others (such as CFS and anxiety disorder) all have in common, an imbalance of serotonin levels. However, there are other factors involved, many are behavioral. One does not need to be depressed for Zoloft to work on fibro or IBS. In low dosages, the SSRIs work on serotonin levels in the brain and gut. Lotronex, a similar drug worked on the serotonin levels mainly in the gut, and was quite effective in treating IBS D. Please explain what you and your Dr. are doing for your IBS, I'm not sure what you're talking about. Are you talking about the work they're doing at Cedar's Sinai? Who is your GI doctor? Thanks.AZ[This message has been edited by AZmom1 (edited 03-19-2001).]


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## Nina M (Feb 10, 2001)

I have posted previously on the procedure being used. Gave everybody the horrors, well most people. Admit I really should have waited until I had undergone the procedure myself, but having such positive feedback from others who had it done, patients of this particular gastro made me keen to pass on the info. So not mentioning it again until I myself have actually had it done, hopefully in the next few weeks. If you want to check it out do a search for the thread on fecal flora transfusion and you will find the website address of the C.Difficile board (Jackie's posting). Have a read of Len's story, indeed the whole thread. Of course D.difficile might not be your problem, but food for thought. Also look up Jackie's posts on this board re; Dientamoeba fragilis and go into her website, some very good research there. Are these instances of IBS, do I have IBS? Who knows, seems a sort of catch-all term used by many docs in much the same way as "idiopathic". Do know I'm having GI problems, muscle, joint,pain, spasms and fatigue, though the latter is the lessor symptom. Couldn't do martial arts? I couldn't even keep doing Tai Chi, can't do crochet without muscle/joint pain and spasm. As for "leading specialist opinion". Well for a 100yrs and more such opinion said that it was not possible for bacteria to live in the acid bath of the stomach. Ulcers and the like were caused by stress and lifestyle. Since the 1980's we have known different. H.Pylori, leading cause of stomach problems, took the medical profession years to accept it. How often has it been the case that 'Today's heresy is tomorrow's truth'. Not really to the point, but, the CFS/FMS groups in our state are about to tell their "Patron", the supposed leading specialist in the field, to get the hell out of it. They have so little respect for him and his supposed "expertise". Has never helped anybody back to health yet. Don't know about Cedar Sinai, what's there bit?


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Cedar-Sinai did the Small Intestine bacterial overgrowth study. K.------------------I have no financial, academic, or any other stake in any commercial product mentioned by me.My story and what worked for me in greatly easing my IBS: http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/Forum17/HTML/000015.html


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## AZmom1 (Dec 6, 1999)

Nina,It is rare for someone on this board to have an IBS diagnosis that ends up being bacterial overgrowth. It does happen, but it is rare. The diagnosis of IBS is becoming more precise with the establishment of the Rome criteria. Doctors are much better educated about IBS, and are performing the proper tests to diagnose IBS and exclude IBDs. Patients are becoming better informed too, thanks to sites like this BB, where those more experienced and well educated, can enlighten the less informed. az[This message has been edited by AZmom1 (edited 03-19-2001).]


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