# Proving food isn't the problem?



## kac123 (Aug 2, 2002)

Hi everyone, My question is - is it worth it to have some sort of food intolerance testing done just for the piece of mind that certain foods aren't responsible for the attacks? In trying to deal with my IBS i have cut foods out of my diet so drastically over the last few years that i can count on one hand the variety of foods i eat and i'm worried about my health. I tend to stay away from the unviersal triggers - spicy food, really greasy food -- i'm to a point where i would love to start adding healthy foods back, but i'm afraid to do it -- i went to try and eat rice krispies the other day and couldn't do it







... my IBS has given me what is amounting to an eating disorder of sorts and i'm getting kind of depressed about it all. I apologize for the length of this post i just wanted to know what other people's thoughts are about this kind of thing.







-Kac


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Have you been tested for fructose or lactose intolerence or celiac? Foods don't cause IBS , but foods can trigger IBS, so its not a bad idea to be tested.


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## kac123 (Aug 2, 2002)

Hi Eric, I've been tested for celiac, cut out all dairy (and lactose) - i haven't been checked for fructose though. I think i'm going to suck it up and pay for some testing to be done, because as it stands now whatever "new" food i put back into my diet is going to trigger a response just because i think that it will. Maybe the peace of mind is all i need.....


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## Julia37 (May 9, 2001)

Try the LEAP program, it has the most thorough testing I know of. They test at least 150 substances (food and chemicals) with your blood sample.www.nowleap.com


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...ic;f=4;t=000667 "Foods don't cause IBS , but foods can trigger IBS, so its not a bad idea to be tested."This erroneous statement is frequently posted, and begs clarification.IBS is a symptom based diagnosis. Patients with loss of oral tolerance to staple foods, sometimes called "intestinal allergy" by immunologists who study the phenomenon in vivo and in vitro, as they do not have traditional food allergy. Rather cell mediated reactions to foods which begin in the small bowel, and they present clinically with the symptom set associated with IBS and are typically diagnosed with IBS. This is common knowledge among the well informed.Therefore until IBS is no longer a symptom based diagnosis milliosn of patients with food ijtolerance are walking around with the diagnosis of IBS.Ergo, under present diagnostic recommendations, loss of oral tolerance to staple foods is one of the causes of IBS symptoms.The actual question that rmeains in suspense is the pathogenesis of lost oral tolerance. There are several possibilities....in that context then food intolerance is a symptom generating mechanism not the pathogenic cause of a disease unless that disease becomes known as Intestinal allergy, for example, instead of IBS and the subpopulations are distinguished by pathology not symptoms.As Grocho said this is so simple a chuild of 5 could understand it. Send someone to fetch me a child of 5.another useful thread http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...ic;f=4;t=000616 MNL


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

PSKACbefore paying for any testing perhaps get this bok and follow his instructions on how to keep a food and symptom log first, to see if you can isolate any of the more obvious potential offenders in your diet...IBS: A DOCTORS PLAN FOR CHRONIC DIGESTIVE TROUBLESBy Gerard Guillory, M.D.; Vanessa Ameen, M.D.; Paul Donovan, M.D.; Jack Martin, Ph.D. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/088...3369143-6824157 Like the commercial says "Might save you a buck or two"MNL


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## kac123 (Aug 2, 2002)

Hi MNL, I've read many of the "abstract wars" (as i've taken to calling them) on the issue at hand. And to be honest, its because of those outbreaks that i tried to hide this quesion down here and didn't put it on the main board! I appreciate the clarification on that quote from your angle of expertise, and I might add, I really enjoyed your response on the main BB to a similar thread about differing opinions. I love common sense (which is probably why the IBS gets to me - it makes none!)







End point - I try and make my approach to treating IBS multi-faceted - I use meds, hypnotherapy, dietary control, etc. Not just one method exclusively because that doesn't make any sense to me with my symptom set (alternating C/D, highly anxiety sensitive).Having said that, the reason i asked about the testing is that i am tired of playing the "food game". I'm tired of playing "wait and see if this food will wreck me". I have actually gotten to a point where i'm bordering on malnutrition because i am just plain afraid to eat anything new or different and i just keep cutting foods out because they 'may' bother me. Stupid thing about it is that i am not really all that better on the foods I DO eat - i just don't get the nasty D attacks. So i'm considering paying to get the tests done as a way to prove to myself that food intolerance is not truly my problem with certain foods. So i guess my new question (as this is your area) is can tests like LEAP answer this quesion for me? Or is the technology still too new to give a definitive answer?I'm sorry that rambled, i'm having a slow day today at work waiting for my timer to beep so i can go and play with my elisa plates =)Thanks so much for you answers/answer!-Kac


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## Julia37 (May 9, 2001)

Well, this brings up something I was thinking about earlier. I've had stress cause digestive symptoms, and I've made the connection to the stress of my abusive family, but food sensitivities did account for more than 90% of the symptoms I was having at the time I isolated them.I do much better on the stress because I've worked out the old issues, keep my distance from people who treat me badly (including my family), and I do meditation and such to avoid letting stress get to me. I also have a hobby that's lots of fun, and that helps a lot.







My brother has not dealt with the family issues and he told me he thinks he has an anxiety disorder and was going to look into going on meds. When I responded that he probably has post-traumatic stress like me, and that he might try working on the issues so he wouldn't have to stay on meds forever, he dropped the subject and hasn't said a word since. Typical in our family, ignore anything you don't want to deal with.So my point is that if a person is having anxiety and stress that cause physical symptoms, addressing the causes of the stress and resolving the issues is an option, and then a person will feel better and not have to have as many meds. So many people just let life have its way with them, and that's not necessary. You can leave people who treat you badly, find a better job, move to a place you like better - whatever. It's a free country, use that freedom!





















Stepping off my soapbox now...


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

KACSorry so slow been away"End point - I try and make my approach to treating IBS multi-faceted - I use meds, hypnotherapy, dietary control, etc. Not just one method exclusively because that doesn't make any sense to me with my symptom set (alternating C/D, highly anxiety sensitive)."Not to the medical establishment either. Most docs know that integrative therapy works best, not single modal therapy. The more patient specific the better."So i'm considering paying to get the tests done as a way to prove to myself that food intolerance is not truly my problem with certain foods. So i guess my new question (as this is your area) is can tests like LEAP answer this quesion for me? Or is the technology still too new to give a definitive answer?"On the contrary this is precisely why the immunologist involved developed this MRT....so that this impossible guessing game could be stopped and people would know or rule out specific foods as contributiong to their symptoms.Since the assay is now in its third generation since invention in the late 1990's, it is more sensitivite and more specific than it was...we get very good reproducibility on split samples and very high correlation between dietary changes and symptom outcomes...and negative controls were very good the last time we did them (Secret: we also use the healthy football players of the Univerisity of Miami Hurricanes as negative controls...check healthy athletes blood to make sure that we are not getting too many false positives.)They do symptom surveys on each new player each year and if they come up symptomatic they are tested and placed on a LEAP diet to keep their athletic performance at its peak....who wants a wide receiver getting diarrhea running deep patterns? In fact UM has been so happy with the results that they have officially endorsed the LEAP DM program and the MRT involved and this year will be checking the track teams, soccer teams, even the slothful baseball players. Their head trainer at UM had IBS before he met us and this is what started it all a few years back.In fact several UM players who went on to the NFL did so while followng a LEAP diet to stay healthy. Cannot name patients but you owuld know them if I named them.Now our technical staff just finished this years "improvements" to the software and device machinations...and we will be runiing new negative controls on the UM guys soon since camp is starting to make sure we got the furter enhancements we are looking for.So any instrumentation is always improving as you go. But indeed it will do what you want it to do IF YOU NEED TO.On the other hand if you do not have the symptoms associated with cell emdiated food sensitivity reactions based on the prescreening form on our wensite then we do not recommedn testing as it will almost assuredly come back negative.I would say shoot one of those through and let our RD look at it before you even consider it...and be sure you have tried Dr. Guilories intake abnd symptom loggiong on your own first to see if you could flush out any culprits for free. You just have to do it a certain way and most people don't do it the right way...I tlaked about this on another ppst thios morning hmmmmmmyeah here http://www.ibsgroup.org/cgi-local/ubbcgi/u...t=000667#000005 I gotta run but I hope that helps a littleSorry for typosMNL


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## kac123 (Aug 2, 2002)

Hi MNL, Thanks very much for your reply. I have filled out the survey in the past and I was told by Jan that i would probably be one of the negative ones. I have a horrid diet now (bread, rice, pasta, pretzels, chicken...thats it) - the thing of it is that i still feel bad most of the time - i still get the D attacks, but just not as frequently. So i guess i am trying to convince myself that either my symptoms have nothing to do with food or that one of the foods i left in this mix is causing my problems. Man i hope that makes sense out of my head...i have trouble articulating this in a way that makes me not sound insane.







I am trapped in the mindset that foods make me have the D/pain - I guess i continue with this because it gives me some control over the IBS - i can control what foods i do and do not eat easily.Anyway -- sorry to ramble, this has just been bothering me lately.Thanks again for the replies - i guess i need to decide what to do with it all now! -kac


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## Julia37 (May 9, 2001)

You're not eating any veggies! Please put at least one green and one orange/red fruit or veggie in your diet. Of course you feel bad, anyone would.I hope you can find some veggies - Get some of the baby spinach in the bagged salad section and boil it for a minute with your pasta. That works pretty well. Cooked carrots might be good also unless you're fructose sensitive like me.Or, one of the things I used for testing was baby food. You could get a few jars, and usually the only ingredient is the veggie and water, so it's pure unlike most convenience foods.







Good luck! Don't put off the testing too long.


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

Hi KACJust a question if you are an epsiodic d'er....there are many reasons a dietician will discourage a patient from entyering into a lifestyle modification program which includes dietary therapy for symptomology, as oppsoed to Julias observation and yours that from a nutritional standpoint your diet sux...er sorry...is compromised.You know some people with infrequent episodes of dirrahea, punctuated by spells of bowel function which is considered by their doctor to be "IBS like" becasue they seem to get constipated too from time to time have no disease at all.Sometimes they just get this pattern and feel like #### becasue they do not have a balnced diet with enough soluble and insoluble fiber.40-50 grams per day is a minimum, and personally I suggest that the balance of intake be to the soluble (pectin) side...raw fruits at least 4 x daily...plus whole grain and the old fashioned roughage that mom talked about...lettuce based salad..twice a day.It can be amazing how normal a person becomes within a couple of months of retrianing their bowel to accept a properly balanced diet and it turns out their IBS is not ISB at all.I suspect that while you may have some bowel symptoms the RD, looking for the red flags of comorbid symptoms in other body systems that go along with food intolerance reactions in people with gut symptkms, may have seen little of that reported thus lowering the probability that you need to be tested for same.So see just becase you do not have food allergy or pseudoallergy or intolerance signs does not rule out that your diet is the source of your woes. Then your mental response to it over time just makes it worse...as we obsess over the problem and try to cope with how it affects or lives...creating anxiety and stress.I might try seeing an RD for a consult just on how to eat a properly balanced high fiber diet beofre I start thinking I need any form of psychotherapy.ANyway thats another take on it!be wellMNL


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## kac123 (Aug 2, 2002)

mike, ummm...i'm confused by your last post. You seem to be saying that because i don't appear to have symptoms of food intolerance, etc that i do not have IBS. I hope that i'm reading that incorrectly. and for the love of all that is good and pure in the world i am NOT trying to start an argument (there's been enough of that nonsense in the last two weeks) - i'm merely seeking to understand."You know some people with infrequent episodes of dirrahea, punctuated by spells of bowel function which is considered by their doctor to be "IBS like" becasue they seem to get constipated too from time to time have no disease at all"I have been thru a GP, three GI's and a specialist in internal medicine - presented my symptoms to them of alternating bowel habits from C to D - and every one of them has diagnosed me with IBS because of the lack of any other physiological cause for 3 years of abdominal pain. Plus, alternating C and D is part of the Rome criteria. So i'm a little confused because you seem to be saying that i'm "only constipated" and that if i eat more ruffage i'll be fine because i don't really have IBS because i don't have constant D. Sigh - you know, i'm probably misinterpretting that so if i'm wrong i'll apologize in advance. i've had a bad week and i don't have the emotional reserves left to handle things well. i am working on my diet and trying to "simply start eating" things again. i don't have much of a choice unless i want to develop diseases pirates used to get, and as it seems that i don't have any "real" problems with food hopefully it won't be difficult. Thanks for your time and responses.i hope you are feeling well this week.-kac


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## Julia37 (May 9, 2001)

> quote:raw fruits at least 4 x daily






































Except for us fructose sensitives - I do pretty well with dark red lettuce (it's actually green with red tips), red corn chips, yellow corn, collard greens from the community garden, dried tomatos, occasional fresh tomato, potatos, spinach, dried parsley, oatmeal bread for breakfast (and meats and starches of course). I make the bread in a bread machine with rolled oats. The oatmeal is real good for fiber.BTW I never had the D cyclic pattern that Mike's company identifies as the most common indicator of food sensitivity (if I understand correctly). My symptoms were pain upper and lower, cramps, bloating, heartburn. I got D maybe twice a year. The insides of my stomach and intestines felt inflamed. I remember describing this to my GI and he didn't say anything. I had already identified my sensitivity to soy, after I identified dairy (lactose) and fructose and other sugars, my symptoms pretty much went away. I still get a few sometimes if inhalant allergies are bad or if I eat something wrong. Once in a while I get symptoms from stress also, but that's no inflammation, only spasms.So my point is you can have food sensitivity without having D, it's just not as common. I see you mentioned you've had symptoms for only 3 years. Has infection been ruled out as the cause of your symptoms? There's a bug called giardira, or something like that, can cause IBS symptoms. My doctor checked me for it at one point. If you were in another country or working in unsanitary conditions when your symptoms started that would be something to check. If your current doctors don't know how, find one that does!


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