# Colonoscopy with or without sedation



## garysconstipated

I'm 52, a research chemist, and I am unfortunate to have ALL of the risk factors and history/symptoms for colon cancer...2 first-degree relatives who had it, bleeding, recent bowel changes, etc, etc......so, it's a no-brainer that I get a colonoscopy...the pain, bleeding, constipation/diarrhea is sort of forcing me to....anyway, I had one horrible experience with "conscious sedation" and won't do it again. I'll just endure the pain; my doc said sedation was required and everyone has to have it; then I do a little research and find out that, while most people want sedation, some do not and it's certianly not "required"......My doc still insisted that it's required until I pulled out an article from SAGES (a peer-reviewed) gastro journal touting the virtues of sedationless colonoscopy. So now she reluctantly agrees to do it with no drugs....I finally got her to admit that they use Versed (midazolam) not to "relax" the patient, but for amnesia......and this amnesia hurts a lot of people......Versed has so many people that hate the experience that they had with the drug, that a website called "versedbusters" is full of horror stories about colonoscopies done with this drug. So my doc agreed to do it with no drugs, but when they started the procedure, she insisted on having painkiller available (fentanyl) so I reluctantly agreed-only if I asked for it. Then when they were about to start the procedure, I noticed 2 syringes hooked up to a y-site in my IV; guess what? One was Versed!!!!!!!!!!!!! Fortunately I ripped the IV out before they could administer it. Why all the deceit about a simple procedure/ I'm not a nut, I just asked to be treated like a human being.......I guess that I'll never get a colonoscopy....although a nurse suggested putting on the consent "no drugs" and making the doc sign it...what do you think?


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## kitkat17 Lady of the Loo

I have had 2 colonoscopies with Versed. LOVE that drug. I have had it for a DNC too. I had noproblem and I wouldnot have a colonosopy wihtout it. I do NOT want ANY pain. NO thanks.Good luck,. hope you Dr listens to you.Take careKat


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## garysconstipated

Thanks kitKat; I don't like pain, but Versed has no effect whatsoever on pain, it's given for amnesia, pure and simple. If pain is an issue, you use painkillers, simple drugs like fentanyl or meperidine. Unfortunately, a lot of people have a very severe, almost PTSD reaction to the amnesia part. Maybe it's because they aren't told about it in the so called "informed consent".... but this drug hurts a lot of people..........In 30 years of chemical (drug) research, I have never heard of a commonly used drug like versed have it's own website (versedbusters) with literally hundreds of horrific comments about experiences with this drug. There is a good reason that versed is referred to as a "date rape benzodiazepine"...A newer drug called propofol which induces deep sedation (and given by an anesthetist) is better than versed for some people...In my opinion, anything is better than versed.. I'm glad that you were in the majority who had a good experience. The icing on the cake for me was when my doc insisted that she give it to me, then later admitted that she wouldn't want it herself for a colonoscopy. I'll just live with the symptoms and take my chances with my rather awful family history of colon cancer....................Yesterday, when I went the gastro doc's office to get a copy of by bloodwork (at least they and the hospital aren't charging me anything), the doctor walks up to me and says that she will so the colonoscopy without the Versed and she even admitted that some patients have had really bad experiences with it......I asked her again why she wanted to give me a drug that she wouldn't take herself and she just asked me to reschedule the test......I guess that I was in a bad mood from the prep and wasting 2 hours at the hospital for nothing....so I lost my cool and loudly reminded her that I didn't appreciate being lied to and that I wouldn't trust her to wash my car, much less perform a colonoscopy. I'm not proud that I did this in a waiting room full of other patients, but it's unfortunately 100% true.


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## garysconstipated

Not sure why i'm boring everyone with the gross details of my abortive attempts at colonoscopy....my former gastro doc just called me and said that she would do the test without any drugs and that they actually do a fair number of colonoscopies drug-free (a complete reversal from what she originally told me)...she said that they use the drugs so that people just get the drugs, forget everything and then ask "when are you going to start the procedure".....great, if you are in the majority of patients who have this experience (god help you if you are in the 10% who don't-the drugs are far worse that the colonoscopy)...aanyway, I just wanted to state that I think that colonoscopy is a good idea for anyone (I have a PhD in pharmacology for what that's worth).....don't listen to my rant and avoid the test............just get informed consent about the drugs, for gods sake)........my former gastro actually told me that colon cancer is a distinct possibility for me and that colonoscopy is essential......if you need one, get one.......I won't


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## kitkat17 Lady of the Loo

colon cancer runs in my family. I have had 2 so far due to major D. I am scheduled for another the end of next month. I dread it. I hate the prep.If I was you and I went though the prep and got there probably at the butt crack of dawn and did not have the test done I would be ticked off too.bestof luck to you.take careKat


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## garysconstipated

before you get a colonoscopy, check out 2 websites: colonoscopywarning and versedbusters.............I'm ashamed to admit that "medical professionals"....I'm considered one (believe it or not) would treat ANYONE like that with amnesia drugs and abuse them..........sorry, it's the truth


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## garysconstipated

just be an informet patient and all will be fine


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## NancyCat

My boss who is a "type A" person and an eye doctor had a colonoscopy done with nothing at all. I think the doc who did it was ok about nothing because my boss can indeed take a lot of pain. he said it was "uncomfortable".I had a "paradoxyl" reaction to versed in 1991 which kept me from getting another scope til I had to in 02. At that time I had a light general, propofol. I had to have an anethesiologist which makes it more expensive but it was still covered entirely by insurance. I'd try and see if you can go this route, rather than with "nothing" but I'm not surprised that docs are against it for the most part. IMO the more people who have bad expereinces and tell their friends the less people will come for screenings.At any rate it doesnt have to be an awful traumatizing ecpereince but you have to be really proactive and some docs dont like that.


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## garysconstipated

I can't believe that I'm writing this, but I just got home after having my colonoscopy! My primary care doctor hooked me up with the doctor who did her own colonoscopy (a very patient, caring, but no BS doctor) who told me that I was about 90% right about Versed (they like to scope patients who don't rememebr a thing and who tell other potential colonoscopy patients how "easy" the procedure was (which means that they don't remember it).....She also told me that just the painkiller Fentanyl could be used as a single agent with no amnesia,but that most GI docs are limited in the amount that they are willing to give (when given with Versed, they usually give a lot less fentanyl)...She also knew about the fairly large numbers of patients (and knew about Versedbusters) and that a lot of patients are really traumatized by getting the test with Versed; not because of the drug, but because they aren't told in advance that in will probably induce total or partial amnesia of the event. And it's her opinion that when they start to have partial recall of the procedure,, they freak out. Long story short: if you tell people (and their designated driver) in advance about the drug's effects, you will have very few people who have "versed trauma"; but she told me that many patient's are not told about this. Also, if potential pain is an issue, you can get real anesthesia (propofol) and pay for it, and probably not feel of remember anything, but it requires an anesthesia provider which increases cost and greatly decreases the number of colonoscopies that a GI doc can do in a day (due to anesthesia scheduling).....I could not believe how honest this woman was with me; she said that I could do the test with nothing (men have straighter colons than women), but that it would probably hurt (possibly quite a bit) when she went around the corners and that a touch of Fentanyl would work wonders, no amnesia. She did mention one additional advantage of sedation (when nformed of the amnesia in advance) that I never thought about: very few docs like to inflict pain and if you are unsedated, but obviously uncomfortable, most tend to rush the test, even if it's subconsciously (and perhaps miss something). It was also refreshing to hear that she was adamant about informing patient's about the amnesia effects of versed (propofol too).....but after letting me ventilate, she told me with my family history that I had to have the test; but she also insisted that I give her permission to give me painkillers if in her judgement (not mine) that it was necesary. Fine, I did the prep, bared my backside and got the test; she gave me 2ml of Fentanyl at the first twinge and the test was a breeze. She removed some polyps and took biopsies and told me to expect repeat tests at least every 2 years and that I would get the biopsy results soon. Personally, I think that if everyone was informed of the amnesia effects of the Versed in advance, that all the "trauma" would be a non-issue. It also helped to have a caring doc who you trust. And this website has been super.


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## garysconstipated

Just wanted to add: be an informed patient, but get this test done! My control-freak attitude could have killed me; luckily I found a caring doc and this website. The prep is a nuisance, but not so bad. Getting colon cancer and dying or having to get a colonostomy (wearing a bag) is much worse. As my GI doc described a colonoscopy to me in delicate terms: it's often life-saving surgery (which can often be avoided with colon cancer screening).......but that if I wanted to see what having a colonostomy was like, try pooping into a plastic bag and using duct tape to attach it to your side......and her own mother has one...I guess that I needed to hear the consequences of skipping colon-cancer screening in graphic terms.........as my wife says: that's the price that I pay for being a highly-educated blockhead. Just get the test, if you are anxious, get the Versed too.......


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## pond girl




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## pond girl

hello, new here, forgive me--- long time since on puter.....ok, i had versed, it was on my chart day before test and the hosp. calls me, etc. so i ask, what are you giving me. said versed & demeral or morphane. cannot take valium, and nurse said it (versed is same class) to hang up & get in touch with dr., i immediately did, thinking all taken care of, so next a.m., here i lie on bed and nurse doing her paper trail, i ask again, what being given,, low and behold, still on chart, tell her the story of day before, she tells me to tell my dr., hey , guys, I have been here since 8:30a.m., and to start at 10.am, long story short, i get in procedure room at ll:55, drs. delays and other stuff, (being nice about it-- hey, saving lives, etc.) so, the nurse who is to inject meds.-- i ask her also, what's on chart, good lordy----only one thing changed and not the versed which is the major drug class ( she tells me, it is what the dr. ordered) lady, i cant take it,,, does she tell the doctor,,, no,she shot me with it, and i'm out till a couple minutes,, i am screaming, short story, i have copies of all of this, they stopped the procedure (you would have to read the records),, SENT ME down to barium enema--- really painfull after that water hose (lol) gotta laugh sometimes... well to tell end of story, hospital didnt even wheel me out in wheel chair,, they left my husband to do it,,, doctors have told me (along with my sister) so many different things, sis says they are passing the buck,,,,she told them,,, i tried to tell them about my drug reactions and everything.. they said, she really surprised us, and SHE CANT TOLARATE pain, i have talked to the ceo of my hospital, 3 attys., and anyone else who is thinking of doing it here---- dr. even said, next time we do it, it will be in o.r. under anesth.totally put me out... valium makes me alert, climb walls, just out of this world. Yes, i have horror, emotions over that ordeal... guys, i had my first one 20 yrs ago, all awake (was painful)--- BUT this other doctor - well i didnt go back to him, and never want to see his face. I did have a polyp... removed this time, and the test stopped and me sent to barium test, what if that test showed more polyps!!!!! who's gonna pay for that test-- who's gonna be in pain and horrified again? thanks for listening and any comments welcomed..


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## garysconstipated

I recently found out that I had colon cancer, colonoscopy caught it early and saved my life. Still, there is no excuse for the way tat most patient's are given Versed. I'm only 53 and am no rocket-scientist, but 25 years as a hospital pharmacist, years doing pharm research hve lead me to a conclusion: Versed sucks; not because it's a bad drug, but because of the way it's being used. I just had a hemicolectomy and am cancer-free; if the endoscopist had insisted on Versed for the exam, I would have refused and would probably be literally dying of cancer. Guys, here is why Versed (midazolam) is getting a horrible rap (when 10% of the patient's hate it, it's bad):1. Explain that it's for amnesia, not to just to relax the patient..a nurse with a calm voice can do that2. Versed has no effect on pain-yes, it's combined with a narcotic (fentanyl) sometimes, but often the narcotic dose it wayyyyy to small and the patient writhes in pain..the nurses and doc's smugly say: the patient won't remember this anyway....so pain is not an issue during the colonoscopy3. BS! if the patient is in pain, use narcs plus versed for pain-god, you can tell when someone is suffering!!!!!4. Amnesia from Versed is often NOT long lasting....sure you get them out the door thinking all went "great"..then they start to remember a procedure that really hurt, that they were restrained rather than medicated and they eventually remember almost everything5. Propofol-given by a CRNA seems to be better, but you STILL need fentanyl for pain...................."conscious sedation" is anything but 100% amnesic 6. O.K. I have just been "cured of colon cancer because of colonoscopy. Got versed once and still have nightmares of it...Have counseled many hospital employees who also got it and PLEASE tell them about the amnesia and use adequate pain control.....creepy amnesia won't cut it...My secretary is at super-high risk and needs a colonoscopy......but won't get one because of what she has heard from the other nurses who got one form a sloppy endoscopist using versed (and say 50mcg fentanyl)-inadequate...............I have posted a note on the office bulletin board that anyone who needs a colonoscopy and wants propofol/fentanyl can get it without extra charge.......I'll pay..I'm not rich, so far 6 have done it.................hapy new year-get a colonoscopy is you need one; or if you are jst over 50, constipated and feel like a good cleanout and have real insurance..get one......endo docs/nurses........I don't think that you mislead patients....just please explain the ENTIRE story......... I said that I hate Versed, 2 days ago I shot myself with a nailgun due to clumsiness.........no big deal, but the removal required an evernight stay.........my doc asked me: not that you understand versed, would you accept it? sure...4mg versed, 100mcg fentanyl and I don't remember a thing...............she said that htey used a claw hammer to remove the nails.......just get informet as to what Versed is/and is not and you will be fine....thanks


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## yiyayiya

garysconstipated said:


> Not sure why i'm boring everyone with the gross details of my abortive attempts at colonoscopy....my former gastro doc just called me and said that she would do the test without any drugs and that they actually do a fair number of colonoscopies drug-free (a complete reversal from what she originally told me)...she said that they use the drugs so that people just get the drugs, forget everything and then ask "when are you going to start the procedure".....great, if you are in the majority of patients who have this experience (god help you if you are in the 10% who don't-the drugs are far worse that the colonoscopy)...aanyway, I just wanted to state that I think that colonoscopy is a good idea for anyone (I have a PhD in pharmacology for what that's worth).....don't listen to my rant and avoid the test............just get informed consent about the drugs, for gods sake)........my former gastro actually told me that colon cancer is a distinct possibility for me and that colonoscopy is essential......if you need one, get one.......I won't


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## yiyayiya

Those "Rants" as you so eloquently put it are true. Read what most people on the internet, not the lying health care professionals, say. I will never have any form of invasive treatment or test under any circumstances. they cause more trouble than they could ever cure. I'll take my chances. Never just agree to whatever a doctor says, they are not god. Look into it and do what YOU want to do - its your body.


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## KevronRunningFromTheRuns

garysconstipated said:


> 6. O.K. I have just been "cured of colon cancer because of colonoscopy. Got versed once and still have nightmares of it...Have counseled many hospital employees who also got it and PLEASE tell them about the amnesia and use adequate pain control.....creepy amnesia won't cut it...My secretary is at super-high risk and needs a colonoscopy......but won't get one because of what she has heard from the other nurses who got one form a sloppy endoscopist using versed (and say 50mcg fentanyl)-inadequate...............I have posted a note on the office bulletin board that anyone who needs a colonoscopy and wants propofol/fentanyl can get it without extra charge.......I'll pay..I'm not rich, so far 6 have done it.................


I don't doubt that versed is bad news for some people, particularly people who have atypical responses to benzo drugs. But versed isn't as bad as its made out to be by some of those websites. Most people tolerate it ok, probably at least 95% +, or else they wouldn't use it so routinely. Although reading about it before my colonoscopy did get me alot more worried about versed than I needed to be. Just my 2 cents...I wouldn't recommend putting off a colonoscopy for fear of versed. I'm glad they cured your cancer Gary.


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