# Totally hopeless



## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

This gas problem is totally hopeless. It's been gradually getting worse over the years. I am now at the point where I can't eat or drink anything without the gurgling, gassiness, and cramps. Also, I am now waking up during the night with it(every night) to the point where I am awake more than sleeping. I don't have diarrhea...it's actually worse. It is constant, painful gas (and yes Flux, it IS gas. It comes out in huge amounts!) When I went back to the doctor last week, he had no answers or ideas. He has done every test imaginable over the past few years, and everything has come back normal. I have exhausted every antispasmodic, antibiotic, and over the counter remedies including acidophilus, simethicone, etc. I don't see any hope in my future, since I have been to seven doctors, most of them specialists. They all say it is IBS, but it's hard to believe that IBS can afflict a person all day and all night, every day. Any encouragement or ideas are appreciated. This is really depressing, especially during the holidays. I certainly hope that everyone is having a better day than me!Thanks,Darlene


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## admflo (Dec 1, 2001)

Hi Darlene! You don't give any details about your diet, etc. Do you eat a lot of fried food, milk, etc. and have you tried the ginger root caps? I was in the same boat as you for fifteen years, tried ginger one time and got amazing relief. I now eat and drink whatever I want with very little gas and no pain whatsoever. I am C and have to take ex lax because nothing else works!I buy the ginger in the grocery, generic brand.Good Luck and Merry Christmas!


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## admflo (Dec 1, 2001)

Hi Darlene! You don't give any details about your diet, etc. Do you eat a lot of fried food, milk, etc. and have you tried the ginger root caps? I was in the same boat as you for fifteen years, tried ginger one time and got amazing relief. I now eat and drink whatever I want with very little gas and no pain whatsoever. I am C and have to take ex lax because nothing else works!I buy the ginger in the grocery, generic brand.Good Luck and Merry Christmas!


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## Tamgirl21 (Sep 2, 2001)

admflo, what is the amount of ginger you take, what is the capsule size?? thanks....


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## Tamgirl21 (Sep 2, 2001)

admflo, what is the amount of ginger you take, what is the capsule size?? thanks....


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Admflo,Thanks for your suggestion about the ginger root. Unfortunately, I had a bad reaction to the ginger capsules. I tried them a couple of weeks ago (after I heard of your success)and had SEVERE intestinal cramping a few hours later. I called the company that manufacturers the ginger caps and just nonchalantly asked them about potential side effects to their ginger product. They told me that side effects are rare, but some people do get severe cramping in their small intestine after taking them, and some people actually get nausea!! I'm really glad it helped you. After 15 years of suffering, it must have been a godsend! My diet couldn't be blander. I avoid all dairy products, fried foods, etc. I eat a lot of soup, and lately I am eating very, very little because of the gas that I get. Anyway, thanks a million for replying. Please reply if you have any other ideas. Please, if anybody can help me figure out how to alleviate this constant gas, please respond. I will be indebted to you!DarleneP.S. I don't want to discourage anybody about the ginger capsules. I understand this is a VERY rare reaction.


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Admflo,Thanks for your suggestion about the ginger root. Unfortunately, I had a bad reaction to the ginger capsules. I tried them a couple of weeks ago (after I heard of your success)and had SEVERE intestinal cramping a few hours later. I called the company that manufacturers the ginger caps and just nonchalantly asked them about potential side effects to their ginger product. They told me that side effects are rare, but some people do get severe cramping in their small intestine after taking them, and some people actually get nausea!! I'm really glad it helped you. After 15 years of suffering, it must have been a godsend! My diet couldn't be blander. I avoid all dairy products, fried foods, etc. I eat a lot of soup, and lately I am eating very, very little because of the gas that I get. Anyway, thanks a million for replying. Please reply if you have any other ideas. Please, if anybody can help me figure out how to alleviate this constant gas, please respond. I will be indebted to you!DarleneP.S. I don't want to discourage anybody about the ginger capsules. I understand this is a VERY rare reaction.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:He has done every test imaginable over the past few years,


Gas is actually very *simple* to figure out. Start by not eating for about three days and see what happens to volume. If it is not affected, the gas comes from the atmosphere. If it is, then it comes from the gut. The next step depends on that.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:He has done every test imaginable over the past few years,


Gas is actually very *simple* to figure out. Start by not eating for about three days and see what happens to volume. If it is not affected, the gas comes from the atmosphere. If it is, then it comes from the gut. The next step depends on that.


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## *Luna* (Nov 19, 2001)

So Flux, are you suggesting people get an IV hookup for three days?? I know some people can go longer than I can without feeling horrible if they don't eat, but three days is pretty long for anyone! And air can be swallowed while chewing gum and drinking water, in addition to eating food. Wouldn't it be dangerous for people to just stop eating for three days?Darlene, have you tried eating normal amounts and seeing how the problems compared with eating sparingly? I, and others on here, have found that we actually do better if we make sure to eat enough. Multiple small meals and healthy snacks help me a lot.Something I don't see mentioned much on here, but could cause more swallowing of air, is the way your jaw fits together. Have you ever had your bite checked? I was amazed how much air I swallowed when chewing gum for the first few years after getting my braces off. (My bite has "settled" somewhat since then and it's not as bad, but I still have to be careful.)


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## *Luna* (Nov 19, 2001)

So Flux, are you suggesting people get an IV hookup for three days?? I know some people can go longer than I can without feeling horrible if they don't eat, but three days is pretty long for anyone! And air can be swallowed while chewing gum and drinking water, in addition to eating food. Wouldn't it be dangerous for people to just stop eating for three days?Darlene, have you tried eating normal amounts and seeing how the problems compared with eating sparingly? I, and others on here, have found that we actually do better if we make sure to eat enough. Multiple small meals and healthy snacks help me a lot.Something I don't see mentioned much on here, but could cause more swallowing of air, is the way your jaw fits together. Have you ever had your bite checked? I was amazed how much air I swallowed when chewing gum for the first few years after getting my braces off. (My bite has "settled" somewhat since then and it's not as bad, but I still have to be careful.)


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## stinky too (May 21, 1999)

When I use the ginger all I do is burp the taste.







It might help you to pass the gas, but doesn't prevent it in the first place.


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## stinky too (May 21, 1999)

When I use the ginger all I do is burp the taste.







It might help you to pass the gas, but doesn't prevent it in the first place.


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## cheryn220 (Dec 20, 2001)

I too have symptoms of Ibs that effect me constantly, everyday and sometimes at night. I have tried many different things and have become quiet frustrated with the lack of agreement in the medical community. The only thing I know for sure is that stress does make my symptoms worse, but I can have an attack when nothing at all is going on.I have basically become quiet hopeless and depressed and have mostly given up on improving my syptoms. I am just living with it and am now looking for the encouragement and support of others who understand me.


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## cheryn220 (Dec 20, 2001)

I too have symptoms of Ibs that effect me constantly, everyday and sometimes at night. I have tried many different things and have become quiet frustrated with the lack of agreement in the medical community. The only thing I know for sure is that stress does make my symptoms worse, but I can have an attack when nothing at all is going on.I have basically become quiet hopeless and depressed and have mostly given up on improving my syptoms. I am just living with it and am now looking for the encouragement and support of others who understand me.


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## WD40 (Jun 7, 1999)

I'm not sure about gas and fasting, but water-only fasting for three days in general every once in a while is supposed to be good for you. I can't remember where I learned that but it was in a classroom setting somewhere. Something about giving the body a good rest from digesting food so that it can concentrate on removing toxins, which is why water is essential during a fast. Anyway, that was my two-cents worth. It probably wouldn't hurt to give Flux's post a try, anyway. Anytime my symptoms get severe I end up fasting for 2-4 days anyway so I know it doesn't hurt.


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## WD40 (Jun 7, 1999)

I'm not sure about gas and fasting, but water-only fasting for three days in general every once in a while is supposed to be good for you. I can't remember where I learned that but it was in a classroom setting somewhere. Something about giving the body a good rest from digesting food so that it can concentrate on removing toxins, which is why water is essential during a fast. Anyway, that was my two-cents worth. It probably wouldn't hurt to give Flux's post a try, anyway. Anytime my symptoms get severe I end up fasting for 2-4 days anyway so I know it doesn't hurt.


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## Jared (Sep 1, 2001)

I just want to state that it is very unusual for symptoms of IBS to wake you up at night. Exactly how aware are your doctors about IBS? My first so-called "specialist" told me to "eat more fiber" when I first got diagnosed. That's it, nothing about how stress can cause attacks. Nothing about avoiding fatty foods. Nothing about identifying triggers. If you suspect the symptoms to be something other than IBS, then you should see another doctor, even though it's a pain to get the referral and go to a total stranger.-- Jared


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## Jared (Sep 1, 2001)

I just want to state that it is very unusual for symptoms of IBS to wake you up at night. Exactly how aware are your doctors about IBS? My first so-called "specialist" told me to "eat more fiber" when I first got diagnosed. That's it, nothing about how stress can cause attacks. Nothing about avoiding fatty foods. Nothing about identifying triggers. If you suspect the symptoms to be something other than IBS, then you should see another doctor, even though it's a pain to get the referral and go to a total stranger.-- Jared


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote: Wouldn't it be dangerous for people to just stop eating for three days?


Three days without food for a person who is otherwise (metabolically) healthy adult shouldn't be a big deal. You can still have water during the fast. The goal is to eliminate all potential sources of gas production from bacteria.


> quote:could cause more swallowing of air, is the way your jaw fits together


I'm not sure how one's bite would make a difference in this, but we know next to nothing about normal air swallowing.


> quote: Something about giving the body a good rest from digesting food so that it can concentrate on removing toxins, which is why water is essential during a fast.


Actually, prolonged fasting will eventually *increase* the production of toxins in the body, but three days is probably not that long for that to be terribly signficant, plus you still would still be drinking (water).


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote: Wouldn't it be dangerous for people to just stop eating for three days?


Three days without food for a person who is otherwise (metabolically) healthy adult shouldn't be a big deal. You can still have water during the fast. The goal is to eliminate all potential sources of gas production from bacteria.


> quote:could cause more swallowing of air, is the way your jaw fits together


I'm not sure how one's bite would make a difference in this, but we know next to nothing about normal air swallowing.


> quote: Something about giving the body a good rest from digesting food so that it can concentrate on removing toxins, which is why water is essential during a fast.


Actually, prolonged fasting will eventually *increase* the production of toxins in the body, but three days is probably not that long for that to be terribly signficant, plus you still would still be drinking (water).


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## *Luna* (Nov 19, 2001)

I know there are some people who believe in periodic fasting to "cleanse" the system. And other people think it's B.S. I don't know who is more right.I just know that I'm hypoglycemic, and I'd be so sick after a whole day of not eating. Even if you're not hypoglycemic, three days on only water sounds pretty rough.Sometimes when the D is really bad or I'm otherwise sick, I end up consuming Sprite/7UP (for the sugar) and eating really lightly for a while, but the sugar intake is key for me.Oops, that's what I get for forgetting to submit my post right away. I see there's another reply.Flux, what I was thinking about with the bite is that when your bite is really messed up, it affects the way you chew a lot, and I think it could lead to more swallowing of air. I've also noticed that my gut seems to do better if I make sure to fully chew my food. When my TMJ problem (which started due to a very misaligned jaw, and continues, less severely, since it was corrected) is acting up a lot, chewing can be very uncomfortable, and I'm more likely to swallow food without chewing it much. It's possible that not chewing well enough is the culprit, or increased stress, which can cause my jaw muscles to tense up more, or both, contribute.


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## *Luna* (Nov 19, 2001)

I know there are some people who believe in periodic fasting to "cleanse" the system. And other people think it's B.S. I don't know who is more right.I just know that I'm hypoglycemic, and I'd be so sick after a whole day of not eating. Even if you're not hypoglycemic, three days on only water sounds pretty rough.Sometimes when the D is really bad or I'm otherwise sick, I end up consuming Sprite/7UP (for the sugar) and eating really lightly for a while, but the sugar intake is key for me.Oops, that's what I get for forgetting to submit my post right away. I see there's another reply.Flux, what I was thinking about with the bite is that when your bite is really messed up, it affects the way you chew a lot, and I think it could lead to more swallowing of air. I've also noticed that my gut seems to do better if I make sure to fully chew my food. When my TMJ problem (which started due to a very misaligned jaw, and continues, less severely, since it was corrected) is acting up a lot, chewing can be very uncomfortable, and I'm more likely to swallow food without chewing it much. It's possible that not chewing well enough is the culprit, or increased stress, which can cause my jaw muscles to tense up more, or both, contribute.


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Thanks for the replies..I really appreciate any advice that I can get! Flux, I really wish that gas was that simple to treat and cure. I know that food makes it worse, but a person needs to eat to live. However, I feel like this gas is getting worse every day. Nothing seems to help! Will doctors ever figure out these bowel problems??


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Thanks for the replies..I really appreciate any advice that I can get! Flux, I really wish that gas was that simple to treat and cure. I know that food makes it worse, but a person needs to eat to live. However, I feel like this gas is getting worse every day. Nothing seems to help! Will doctors ever figure out these bowel problems??


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## Debbie Benning (Jan 25, 2001)

Darlene have you tried GasAid? It is made by the Immodium company and it is a combo of simethicone and peppermint oil. It helps me. Give it a try. PS: I sometimes have IBS symptoms that last days and nights on end.


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## Debbie Benning (Jan 25, 2001)

Darlene have you tried GasAid? It is made by the Immodium company and it is a combo of simethicone and peppermint oil. It helps me. Give it a try. PS: I sometimes have IBS symptoms that last days and nights on end.


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## admflo (Dec 1, 2001)

Wow, there are some real problems here. I try NOTto give too much medical advise. I am not a doctor. But, the ginger works for me and yes, Flux,it does stop the gas. I don't know how, it just does. I take ginger root caps. Sometimes 1-2 at a time depending. Max of 4 a day. Darlene, I've been in the healthfield for 24 yrs., I believe small, discreet ulcers will cause more gas and cramping when your stomach is empty. Empty stomachs secrete hydrochloric acid looking for something to break down, so fasting for someone with ulcer is NOT a good idea. Don't know if you have them or not. Apparently I did and xray never picked them up. I eat anything with the ginger root caps and there's no more horrendous odor. You really do need to see another doctor. Anyone having a reaction to ginger is rare unless of course you have an ulcer or someother condition reacting to it. Good luck and keep us posted.


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## admflo (Dec 1, 2001)

Wow, there are some real problems here. I try NOTto give too much medical advise. I am not a doctor. But, the ginger works for me and yes, Flux,it does stop the gas. I don't know how, it just does. I take ginger root caps. Sometimes 1-2 at a time depending. Max of 4 a day. Darlene, I've been in the healthfield for 24 yrs., I believe small, discreet ulcers will cause more gas and cramping when your stomach is empty. Empty stomachs secrete hydrochloric acid looking for something to break down, so fasting for someone with ulcer is NOT a good idea. Don't know if you have them or not. Apparently I did and xray never picked them up. I eat anything with the ginger root caps and there's no more horrendous odor. You really do need to see another doctor. Anyone having a reaction to ginger is rare unless of course you have an ulcer or someother condition reacting to it. Good luck and keep us posted.


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## *Luna* (Nov 19, 2001)

admflo, was it an upper GI that missed your ulcers? What tests did show those small ulcers?I'm curious because I used to have all sorts of stomach acid pain, basically ulcer symptoms, but an upper GI years ago, at the height of the problem, didn't show any ulcers. Years of prescription antacids followed, but I became less dependent on them over time, and after discovering I was lactose intolerant and that was the source or a contributing factor to a lot of my stomach discomfort, I eventually stopped the Pepcid. Now I'm back on it, though.Blood tests for H. pylori have been negative, and I've never had an upper endoscopy. My GI doc didn't care at all about my gastritis, just my intestines







My PCP is the one who put me back on an acid inhibitor.I agree that with the symptoms I had, an empty stomach just meant more gnawing on my stomach lining, or so it seemed. Eating something like a piece of bread or two seemed to help when the gnawing was bad, if I wasn't up for eating more.


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## *Luna* (Nov 19, 2001)

admflo, was it an upper GI that missed your ulcers? What tests did show those small ulcers?I'm curious because I used to have all sorts of stomach acid pain, basically ulcer symptoms, but an upper GI years ago, at the height of the problem, didn't show any ulcers. Years of prescription antacids followed, but I became less dependent on them over time, and after discovering I was lactose intolerant and that was the source or a contributing factor to a lot of my stomach discomfort, I eventually stopped the Pepcid. Now I'm back on it, though.Blood tests for H. pylori have been negative, and I've never had an upper endoscopy. My GI doc didn't care at all about my gastritis, just my intestines







My PCP is the one who put me back on an acid inhibitor.I agree that with the symptoms I had, an empty stomach just meant more gnawing on my stomach lining, or so it seemed. Eating something like a piece of bread or two seemed to help when the gnawing was bad, if I wasn't up for eating more.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote: I know that food makes it worse, but a person needs to eat to live.


First things first, the purpose of the fast is to see what *that* does. You could probably do it for just 48 hours also.


> quote:But, the ginger works for me and yes, Flux,it does stop the gas. I don't know how, it just does


Unfortunately, that's not evidence. For one thing, we don't know what gas (if any) you had or where it came from if it's a transient effect or...right now there is no good reason to think ginger can affect gas in the gut. This doesn't mean one can't try it, but that's just how it looks from a scientific point of view at this point.


> quote: Empty stomachs secrete hydrochloric acid looking for something to break down, so fasting for someone with ulcer is NOT a good idea.


The statement above is *totally untrue*. The stomach can bathe in acid. It's designed to be this way. You cannot get an ulcer unless something goes wrong with it (e.g, H. pylori). If you fast for long enough, you have a lot worse things to worry about than breakdown of the stomach lining. But fasting 48-72 should not significant for those other things if you are healthy otherwise.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote: I know that food makes it worse, but a person needs to eat to live.


First things first, the purpose of the fast is to see what *that* does. You could probably do it for just 48 hours also.


> quote:But, the ginger works for me and yes, Flux,it does stop the gas. I don't know how, it just does


Unfortunately, that's not evidence. For one thing, we don't know what gas (if any) you had or where it came from if it's a transient effect or...right now there is no good reason to think ginger can affect gas in the gut. This doesn't mean one can't try it, but that's just how it looks from a scientific point of view at this point.


> quote: Empty stomachs secrete hydrochloric acid looking for something to break down, so fasting for someone with ulcer is NOT a good idea.


The statement above is *totally untrue*. The stomach can bathe in acid. It's designed to be this way. You cannot get an ulcer unless something goes wrong with it (e.g, H. pylori). If you fast for long enough, you have a lot worse things to worry about than breakdown of the stomach lining. But fasting 48-72 should not significant for those other things if you are healthy otherwise.


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## admflo (Dec 1, 2001)

Luna, I was scoped via the esophagus the first time and that came back negative. Then they did an upper GI and before taking the film the guy asked me if I drank a glass of water. I told him no and he said my stomach was absolutely full of liquid(hydrochloric acid) secreted overnight I guess as I was fasting. At the time I was under much stress so I guess I hypersecreted. At any rate the UGI was negative. No one has EVER dx'd me with small ulcers, I came up with that myself. It was the only plausible explanation as my sx increased with fried food, tomato sauce(gad!) milkwas horrendous, so logically, in a medical sense that was what I came up with. Don't know Flux, how the ginger works but it does and that's all I care about. After so many years of being desperate I don't really care about 'scientificreason', just give me the cure.


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## admflo (Dec 1, 2001)

Luna, I was scoped via the esophagus the first time and that came back negative. Then they did an upper GI and before taking the film the guy asked me if I drank a glass of water. I told him no and he said my stomach was absolutely full of liquid(hydrochloric acid) secreted overnight I guess as I was fasting. At the time I was under much stress so I guess I hypersecreted. At any rate the UGI was negative. No one has EVER dx'd me with small ulcers, I came up with that myself. It was the only plausible explanation as my sx increased with fried food, tomato sauce(gad!) milkwas horrendous, so logically, in a medical sense that was what I came up with. Don't know Flux, how the ginger works but it does and that's all I care about. After so many years of being desperate I don't really care about 'scientificreason', just give me the cure.


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

A Million thanks to everyone who responded. Debbie, I checked out the Gas-X that I have, and it has peppermint oil in it too. Did you notice that the Gas Aid actually worked better than the other brands? If so, I will certainly give it a try. I'm just hesitant, since Gas-X has the same amount of simethicone and also the pepp. oil in it. Admflo, even though all of my symptoms are intestinal, could it still be ulcer related?? My main symptom is excessive flatulence, like huge amounts!! Everything that I eat turns to gas. I am open to any suggestions. It does improve with antibiotics, but my system is very sensitive to antibiotics. Also, it only helps while I am taking the antibiotic, and then afterwards the gas comes back. This is a frustrating condition.


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

A Million thanks to everyone who responded. Debbie, I checked out the Gas-X that I have, and it has peppermint oil in it too. Did you notice that the Gas Aid actually worked better than the other brands? If so, I will certainly give it a try. I'm just hesitant, since Gas-X has the same amount of simethicone and also the pepp. oil in it. Admflo, even though all of my symptoms are intestinal, could it still be ulcer related?? My main symptom is excessive flatulence, like huge amounts!! Everything that I eat turns to gas. I am open to any suggestions. It does improve with antibiotics, but my system is very sensitive to antibiotics. Also, it only helps while I am taking the antibiotic, and then afterwards the gas comes back. This is a frustrating condition.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:No one has EVER dx'd me with small ulcers, I came up with that myself. It was the only plausible explanation as my sx increased with fried food, tomato sauce(gad!) milk was horrendous, so logically, in a medical sense that was what I came up with.


I don't get it. Have you been scoped? Serum gastrin level checked? 24-hour pH monitoring? Electrogastrogram?


> quote:Everything that I eat turns to gas.


Did I mention you need to start with a 48-hour fast? Your next step would be try plain rice and water.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:No one has EVER dx'd me with small ulcers, I came up with that myself. It was the only plausible explanation as my sx increased with fried food, tomato sauce(gad!) milk was horrendous, so logically, in a medical sense that was what I came up with.


I don't get it. Have you been scoped? Serum gastrin level checked? 24-hour pH monitoring? Electrogastrogram?


> quote:Everything that I eat turns to gas.


Did I mention you need to start with a 48-hour fast? Your next step would be try plain rice and water.


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## jenjen (Nov 30, 2000)

today is a day for celebration. i actually AGREE with flux! yay!!







i think that the fasting may be a good idea. it seems like you've tried everything else. i feel so bad for you - i have days where i have gas every five minutes, but not EVERY day! i can imagine how depressing and frustrating this is. maybe if you can fast for 2 days or so (doesnt sound like fun, i know) you can rule something out. i wish i had some other ideas. is it a definite that you dont have another problem - a bacterial infection or something, on top of your IBS? another guess would be food allergies. my SIL is gluten intolerant. if she eats wheat, look out!! i hope you find out whats going on. keep us posted! you poor thing!!!jj


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## jenjen (Nov 30, 2000)

today is a day for celebration. i actually AGREE with flux! yay!!







i think that the fasting may be a good idea. it seems like you've tried everything else. i feel so bad for you - i have days where i have gas every five minutes, but not EVERY day! i can imagine how depressing and frustrating this is. maybe if you can fast for 2 days or so (doesnt sound like fun, i know) you can rule something out. i wish i had some other ideas. is it a definite that you dont have another problem - a bacterial infection or something, on top of your IBS? another guess would be food allergies. my SIL is gluten intolerant. if she eats wheat, look out!! i hope you find out whats going on. keep us posted! you poor thing!!!jj


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## Jeff Blackmore (Dec 28, 2001)

One of my friends can't drink milk-It makes him gassy. Yogurt makes me that way but also helps constipation. Trial and error with food allergies? Keep a food diary and see what bothers you. I fasted for 2 days (doctors suggestion), but it was temporary help for my IBS.


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## Jeff Blackmore (Dec 28, 2001)

One of my friends can't drink milk-It makes him gassy. Yogurt makes me that way but also helps constipation. Trial and error with food allergies? Keep a food diary and see what bothers you. I fasted for 2 days (doctors suggestion), but it was temporary help for my IBS.


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## DonnaDB (Jan 13, 2001)

When you guys refer to gas, are you referring to BELCHING or the "OTHER" END? I belch CONSTANTLY!!! Everything that I eat causes me to belch!! No relief from Gas-X, Acidopilus, Mylanta, etc. etc.


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## DonnaDB (Jan 13, 2001)

When you guys refer to gas, are you referring to BELCHING or the "OTHER" END? I belch CONSTANTLY!!! Everything that I eat causes me to belch!! No relief from Gas-X, Acidopilus, Mylanta, etc. etc.


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2001)

I hate to see these kinds of messages. I understand the frustration. I was there. I had, yes had, ibs. I am going to tell you how to relive gas symptoms. But first, let me know if you have any of the following. Your abdomin is bloated, do your hands or feet get cold when you are in room temp, back pains, you get bloated after exercise. Let me know which of any of these do you have. Second, you need to start a whole foods diet. A whole foods diet is a diet of unrefined food. The soup you eat is refined, which means cetain vitamins and enzymes are taken out when they make the product. Your body cannot digest these foods well, they stay in your stomach and ferment. That is what is causing your gas. Imagine you leave a plate of food out in 98 degree temp for 12-24 hours, think it will start to smell. Now lock that if a bag that is 98 degrees inside. Open it in 12-24 hours. It is the food that ferments that causes the smell. You eat food that cannot be digested well, it stays in your stomach and causes gas. Do you know what the NRC's daily recommended allowance for refined food is...zero. Unrefined foods are vegtables, fruits, meats, pretty much anything that grew up, anything that has not in anyway been processed. It may take about a week or two and you will feel so much better. You need to stop eating sugar totally. Not just white sugar, all sugar, malodextrin, dextrose, etc, etc. Sugar will destroy the lining of your gut, which also causes gas. Caffeine, Alcohol, all have to go. You need to exercise a minimum of 4 times a week. Stationary bike, treadmill, etc. And you need skilled relaxation. You need to learn stress reduction techniques. Stress is a big part of the IBS. You cannot get away totally from stress, but you can learn to deal with it better. Stress causes muscle tension, which by it self causes gas. If you let me know more about you I can give you a full program to follow. And we will see if you have problems with gas in 4-6 weeks. Do you remember what is was like to not have the gas problems that you are having, if you want it to stop, it is time to get serious. Good luck.


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2001)

I hate to see these kinds of messages. I understand the frustration. I was there. I had, yes had, ibs. I am going to tell you how to relive gas symptoms. But first, let me know if you have any of the following. Your abdomin is bloated, do your hands or feet get cold when you are in room temp, back pains, you get bloated after exercise. Let me know which of any of these do you have. Second, you need to start a whole foods diet. A whole foods diet is a diet of unrefined food. The soup you eat is refined, which means cetain vitamins and enzymes are taken out when they make the product. Your body cannot digest these foods well, they stay in your stomach and ferment. That is what is causing your gas. Imagine you leave a plate of food out in 98 degree temp for 12-24 hours, think it will start to smell. Now lock that if a bag that is 98 degrees inside. Open it in 12-24 hours. It is the food that ferments that causes the smell. You eat food that cannot be digested well, it stays in your stomach and causes gas. Do you know what the NRC's daily recommended allowance for refined food is...zero. Unrefined foods are vegtables, fruits, meats, pretty much anything that grew up, anything that has not in anyway been processed. It may take about a week or two and you will feel so much better. You need to stop eating sugar totally. Not just white sugar, all sugar, malodextrin, dextrose, etc, etc. Sugar will destroy the lining of your gut, which also causes gas. Caffeine, Alcohol, all have to go. You need to exercise a minimum of 4 times a week. Stationary bike, treadmill, etc. And you need skilled relaxation. You need to learn stress reduction techniques. Stress is a big part of the IBS. You cannot get away totally from stress, but you can learn to deal with it better. Stress causes muscle tension, which by it self causes gas. If you let me know more about you I can give you a full program to follow. And we will see if you have problems with gas in 4-6 weeks. Do you remember what is was like to not have the gas problems that you are having, if you want it to stop, it is time to get serious. Good luck.


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## Marina (Feb 18, 2001)

Have you been tested for c.diff / parasites?I thought this was interesting: http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...ic&f=1&t=024805


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## Marina (Feb 18, 2001)

Have you been tested for c.diff / parasites?I thought this was interesting: http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...ic&f=1&t=024805


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2001)

Parasites can be the problem in some people. But dealing with how the parasites got there in the first place is the only way to cure IBS. Yes cure, end, stop, no more, good by to IBS. It cannot be done by any new drug big pharma puts out. It is only done by three things, diet, exercise and shilled relaxation. That is it. Any of you can do it. I have. Several people I have met have. You can. Tired of being sick and tired? Frustrated when you goto the doc and he or she gives you a pill and says, we really don't know what causes IBS, it is a big mystery. It is no mystery. Remember a diet in unrefined food, exercise 4 times a week at least 20 minutes each time, and practive skilled relaxation 2 times a day for at least 20 minutes. In 4 weeks you'll feel better than you ever have, the food you eat will have never tasted better, each day will be the greatest in your life.


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2001)

Parasites can be the problem in some people. But dealing with how the parasites got there in the first place is the only way to cure IBS. Yes cure, end, stop, no more, good by to IBS. It cannot be done by any new drug big pharma puts out. It is only done by three things, diet, exercise and shilled relaxation. That is it. Any of you can do it. I have. Several people I have met have. You can. Tired of being sick and tired? Frustrated when you goto the doc and he or she gives you a pill and says, we really don't know what causes IBS, it is a big mystery. It is no mystery. Remember a diet in unrefined food, exercise 4 times a week at least 20 minutes each time, and practive skilled relaxation 2 times a day for at least 20 minutes. In 4 weeks you'll feel better than you ever have, the food you eat will have never tasted better, each day will be the greatest in your life.


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

Remember folks, what helps one may not help another. Darlene, If you try the fast let us know what happens. This is very curious. I know the frustration of not having the medical community be all that helpful with IBS, but I figured, hey I'm on my own here for the most part, so I guess I better start learning about it myself. I gave up expecting my Doc to really help me. The most help and success I have had have come from me educating myself and trying different things I found here on this board and elsewhere. Your problem is just belching right? Not "the other end"? I think doing the fast may help ya narrow down the origin of this belching. Try it for two days. Heck most of us have done that or near that for colonoscopy preps anyway. Just drink water and see what happens. It might be worth it just to get to the source of this maddening symptom. Hang in there. I'll be thinking of you.Let us know.BQ


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

Remember folks, what helps one may not help another. Darlene, If you try the fast let us know what happens. This is very curious. I know the frustration of not having the medical community be all that helpful with IBS, but I figured, hey I'm on my own here for the most part, so I guess I better start learning about it myself. I gave up expecting my Doc to really help me. The most help and success I have had have come from me educating myself and trying different things I found here on this board and elsewhere. Your problem is just belching right? Not "the other end"? I think doing the fast may help ya narrow down the origin of this belching. Try it for two days. Heck most of us have done that or near that for colonoscopy preps anyway. Just drink water and see what happens. It might be worth it just to get to the source of this maddening symptom. Hang in there. I'll be thinking of you.Let us know.BQ


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2001)

I absolutely agree with that BQ. What helps one person may not help another. I have been on and off of this board for about a year and a half. All I see is what new pill you should take, and how IBS is so painful and frustrating. Pills are not the answer and if just experimented with an unrefined diet you would see this. Now I am not saying all medication is bad for you. If you have a thyroid problem, chances are you need meds. But depression, and IBS. Meds should not even be an option. I hope everyone who takes meds or want to take meds for IBS steps back and sees that in the long run it is only going to make things worse. Sure in a perfect world, we could take a pill and everything would be great. But it is not a perfect world. Two years ago I had the same attitude, I no longer have any gas, bloating, d or C. I lost 25 pounds. Before I started, I had TMJ, depression, anxiety, back pain, low self esteem, etc, etc. I was on Asacol for my IBS, Serzone for my depression, Xanax for anxiety, Pepcid for my stomach, now I have none of those problems. Within three months I was off all of those medications. I have been there. I have suffered, and everytime I read that someone wants to take a new med, it is sad because they are moving towards the edge of the cliff instead of away from it.


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2001)

I absolutely agree with that BQ. What helps one person may not help another. I have been on and off of this board for about a year and a half. All I see is what new pill you should take, and how IBS is so painful and frustrating. Pills are not the answer and if just experimented with an unrefined diet you would see this. Now I am not saying all medication is bad for you. If you have a thyroid problem, chances are you need meds. But depression, and IBS. Meds should not even be an option. I hope everyone who takes meds or want to take meds for IBS steps back and sees that in the long run it is only going to make things worse. Sure in a perfect world, we could take a pill and everything would be great. But it is not a perfect world. Two years ago I had the same attitude, I no longer have any gas, bloating, d or C. I lost 25 pounds. Before I started, I had TMJ, depression, anxiety, back pain, low self esteem, etc, etc. I was on Asacol for my IBS, Serzone for my depression, Xanax for anxiety, Pepcid for my stomach, now I have none of those problems. Within three months I was off all of those medications. I have been there. I have suffered, and everytime I read that someone wants to take a new med, it is sad because they are moving towards the edge of the cliff instead of away from it.


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

Well helpful, I guess that is all you are seeing here, but that is not all that _is_ here. I think it is NOT helpful to tell folks that want to try a medication that is "moving toward the edge of a cliff instead of away from it" & is a mite generalistic. That is _your_ experience and I for 1 are very happy that you have found something that helps you. But I'm pretty sure it won't be the same for everyone. I'm asymptomatic 80% of the time and I eat pretty much what I want. AND I, sin of all sins, drink coffee too. I accomplished these results for the most part with doing a hypnotherapy program. Will that work for _everyone_??? I don't know, but something tells me, probably not. Everyone is different.BQ


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

Well helpful, I guess that is all you are seeing here, but that is not all that _is_ here. I think it is NOT helpful to tell folks that want to try a medication that is "moving toward the edge of a cliff instead of away from it" & is a mite generalistic. That is _your_ experience and I for 1 are very happy that you have found something that helps you. But I'm pretty sure it won't be the same for everyone. I'm asymptomatic 80% of the time and I eat pretty much what I want. AND I, sin of all sins, drink coffee too. I accomplished these results for the most part with doing a hypnotherapy program. Will that work for _everyone_??? I don't know, but something tells me, probably not. Everyone is different.BQ


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2001)

I totally understand where you are coming from. But to cure IBS, you need to know where it starts. Medication for depression and IBS will only make it worse in the future. I know this because I have studied it. I work in the big pharma industry. Unless you get to the root of the problem you will never solve it. Just try it and you will see. Not only will depression and IBS go away, a lot of other problems will go away as well. Type 1 diabetics usually are able to reduce insulin or totally get off of it because the diet levels your blood sugar. Unstable blood sugar causes depression all by itself. Sadly most people only start to change when illness sets in. IBS can become worse over time, turn into Crohns, etc. If you take care of it now you will save yourself time, money and frustration.


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2001)

I totally understand where you are coming from. But to cure IBS, you need to know where it starts. Medication for depression and IBS will only make it worse in the future. I know this because I have studied it. I work in the big pharma industry. Unless you get to the root of the problem you will never solve it. Just try it and you will see. Not only will depression and IBS go away, a lot of other problems will go away as well. Type 1 diabetics usually are able to reduce insulin or totally get off of it because the diet levels your blood sugar. Unstable blood sugar causes depression all by itself. Sadly most people only start to change when illness sets in. IBS can become worse over time, turn into Crohns, etc. If you take care of it now you will save yourself time, money and frustration.


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

I understand you are in marketing. Yep. That is clear. LOL You must be good at what you do.However, recent cutting edge research is saying other than what you are saying. If you don't want people buying meds.... shouldn't you be looking for a different company to work for?Also IBS *Has Definitely Not* been shown to lead to Crohns. Get your info straight before ya "help" others the wrong way.PS Diabetics better improve if they aren't ingesting sugar...don't ya think?BQ


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

I understand you are in marketing. Yep. That is clear. LOL You must be good at what you do.However, recent cutting edge research is saying other than what you are saying. If you don't want people buying meds.... shouldn't you be looking for a different company to work for?Also IBS *Has Definitely Not* been shown to lead to Crohns. Get your info straight before ya "help" others the wrong way.PS Diabetics better improve if they aren't ingesting sugar...don't ya think?BQ


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:A whole foods diet is a diet of unrefined food. The soup you eat is refined, which means cetain vitamins and enzymes are taken out when they make the product. Your body cannot digest these foods well, they stay in your stomach and ferment.


The above is *untrue*. What the body digests and doesn't digest depends on a number of factors. However, it is nothing to do with vitamins or enzymes in the food. Vitamins are nutrients. Enzymes may be present in some foods and as proteins they are digested. The bottom line is that many carbohydrate-containting foods are not digested well. However, this doesn't seem to cause much of a problem in general because colon has adapted over the years a person consumes these foods. That is, some gas is normally produced. Only if a person has a particular malabsorption problem or an unusual problem with the gut flora could it lead to excess gas.


> quote:Sugar will destroy the lining of your gut, which also causes gas.





> quote: IBS can become worse over time, turn into Crohns


Both statements above seem to have been *fabricated.*


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:A whole foods diet is a diet of unrefined food. The soup you eat is refined, which means cetain vitamins and enzymes are taken out when they make the product. Your body cannot digest these foods well, they stay in your stomach and ferment.


The above is *untrue*. What the body digests and doesn't digest depends on a number of factors. However, it is nothing to do with vitamins or enzymes in the food. Vitamins are nutrients. Enzymes may be present in some foods and as proteins they are digested. The bottom line is that many carbohydrate-containting foods are not digested well. However, this doesn't seem to cause much of a problem in general because colon has adapted over the years a person consumes these foods. That is, some gas is normally produced. Only if a person has a particular malabsorption problem or an unusual problem with the gut flora could it lead to excess gas.


> quote:Sugar will destroy the lining of your gut, which also causes gas.





> quote: IBS can become worse over time, turn into Crohns


Both statements above seem to have been *fabricated.*


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## AD (Jan 23, 2000)

I agree with Flux on this one. Just because a food is refined or processed does not make it harder to digest. In fact, sugar, particularly maltodextrin (which I use as a weight gain supplement) is easily and quickly absorbed and used by the body for energy. There are no "remains" left to go to the colon after they are absorbed. A diet of unrefined foods probably does help many people with IBS, but it does not cause it and will not cure all cases. Otherwise, nearly all Americans would have this bad of a problem.


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## AD (Jan 23, 2000)

I agree with Flux on this one. Just because a food is refined or processed does not make it harder to digest. In fact, sugar, particularly maltodextrin (which I use as a weight gain supplement) is easily and quickly absorbed and used by the body for energy. There are no "remains" left to go to the colon after they are absorbed. A diet of unrefined foods probably does help many people with IBS, but it does not cause it and will not cure all cases. Otherwise, nearly all Americans would have this bad of a problem.


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2001)

First, BQ, thank you, I am very good at what I do. Thank you for taking the time to look at my profile. I would love to see the cutting edge research that you have. Maybe post it so that I could read. Muscle tension in the body, caused by poor diet, lack of exercise, and lack of stress management is what causes IBS, Crohn's, Colitis. Read up my friend. If you really think by taking a pill and not changing your lifestyle is the way to treat IBS, go for it. I am simply giving you a natural, cost effective alternative. End of that discussion. By the way what I market is not related to IBS or depression. And in responce to Flux. Sugar causes stress on the body, which causes muscle tension, which leads to IBS, damaging of the stomach lining and a whole lot more. When a food is refined (vitamins and enzymes are taken out) it puts stress on the body, stress that can be avoided if you eat an unrefined diet. I apologize I did not make my self more clear, refined carbs are the main problem. The soup she was eating was mostly likely refined. If you just eat a diet that includes unrefined foods, you will see the difference. If pills were the way, why would anyone still have this problem. Why would anyone still be on this board discussing this. How about you just try a different approach. What can be lost. Give it 4 weeks, if you have followed the diet, exercise and SR properly and still see no results, you can go back to the pills. Again, all I am giving you is an alternative that I have seen work for so many people.


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2001)

First, BQ, thank you, I am very good at what I do. Thank you for taking the time to look at my profile. I would love to see the cutting edge research that you have. Maybe post it so that I could read. Muscle tension in the body, caused by poor diet, lack of exercise, and lack of stress management is what causes IBS, Crohn's, Colitis. Read up my friend. If you really think by taking a pill and not changing your lifestyle is the way to treat IBS, go for it. I am simply giving you a natural, cost effective alternative. End of that discussion. By the way what I market is not related to IBS or depression. And in responce to Flux. Sugar causes stress on the body, which causes muscle tension, which leads to IBS, damaging of the stomach lining and a whole lot more. When a food is refined (vitamins and enzymes are taken out) it puts stress on the body, stress that can be avoided if you eat an unrefined diet. I apologize I did not make my self more clear, refined carbs are the main problem. The soup she was eating was mostly likely refined. If you just eat a diet that includes unrefined foods, you will see the difference. If pills were the way, why would anyone still have this problem. Why would anyone still be on this board discussing this. How about you just try a different approach. What can be lost. Give it 4 weeks, if you have followed the diet, exercise and SR properly and still see no results, you can go back to the pills. Again, all I am giving you is an alternative that I have seen work for so many people.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

This had been about gas...


> quote:Muscle tension in the body, caused by poor diet, lack of exercise, and lack of stress management is what causes IBS, Crohn's, Colitis.





> quote: Sugar causes stress on the body, which causes muscle tension, which leads to IBS, damaging of the stomach lining and a whole lot more.





> quote:When a food is refined (vitamins and enzymes are taken out) it puts stress on the body,


The above summarized:


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

This had been about gas...


> quote:Muscle tension in the body, caused by poor diet, lack of exercise, and lack of stress management is what causes IBS, Crohn's, Colitis.





> quote: Sugar causes stress on the body, which causes muscle tension, which leads to IBS, damaging of the stomach lining and a whole lot more.





> quote:When a food is refined (vitamins and enzymes are taken out) it puts stress on the body,


The above summarized:


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## sue660 (Dec 8, 2001)

Darlene,Have you tried not eating anything that has wheat in it?I used to feel like you do, but I have found that giving up bread, cake, biscuits, anything with with flour(wheat) in it had helped me so much.I have also switched to lactose free milk. It tastes virtually the same as the real thing. Since I have used this milk and stayed away from wheat, my symptoms have improved 85%. Yes, the IBS is still there, but is much more managable now.I hope this might help you.Sooz


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## sue660 (Dec 8, 2001)

Darlene,Have you tried not eating anything that has wheat in it?I used to feel like you do, but I have found that giving up bread, cake, biscuits, anything with with flour(wheat) in it had helped me so much.I have also switched to lactose free milk. It tastes virtually the same as the real thing. Since I have used this milk and stayed away from wheat, my symptoms have improved 85%. Yes, the IBS is still there, but is much more managable now.I hope this might help you.Sooz


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## norbert46 (Feb 20, 2001)

Darlene, I think a very good starting point to finding your problem if food is involved at all is to give Flux's suggestion a try. Just clear liquid and rice for a few days and see if there is a change. If so, you can add different items and possibly find an alergy connection. If all the refined foods affected every person the entire population would have IBS, however there can be alergic reactions in some people to certain foods. Most of us know of some foods or drinks that will upset our systems. The medical experts that know all the state of the art information still say that IBS is a disorder and does NOT lead to Crohn's or Colitis which are diseases! I personally from experience would advise anyone to try Mike's hypnotape program or some form of deeprelaxation before resorting to meds. Mike's program is gut specific and has worked for me and I still eat and drink(especially coffee) all I want and maybe even too much. Some people do get relief from meds and I did have success with Lotronex when it was on the market but I would also try psychmeds after all else fails. My experiences with psychmeds was not good but we all respond differently. Disorders such as Depression and GAD can have a brain chemical imbalance factor and needs to be addressed by a professional(a real MD/Psychiatrist) not someone who thinks they really cured it by stopping sugar! Many of us who develope IBS worry excessively and become anxious and seem to have some of these disorders when we don't. Many IBS/D people can tell you that when they took Lotronex(which blocks the seratonin in the gut nerves) that not only did the diarrhea stop but the anxiety/nervousness and depression also stopped. Good luck, Norb


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## norbert46 (Feb 20, 2001)

Darlene, I think a very good starting point to finding your problem if food is involved at all is to give Flux's suggestion a try. Just clear liquid and rice for a few days and see if there is a change. If so, you can add different items and possibly find an alergy connection. If all the refined foods affected every person the entire population would have IBS, however there can be alergic reactions in some people to certain foods. Most of us know of some foods or drinks that will upset our systems. The medical experts that know all the state of the art information still say that IBS is a disorder and does NOT lead to Crohn's or Colitis which are diseases! I personally from experience would advise anyone to try Mike's hypnotape program or some form of deeprelaxation before resorting to meds. Mike's program is gut specific and has worked for me and I still eat and drink(especially coffee) all I want and maybe even too much. Some people do get relief from meds and I did have success with Lotronex when it was on the market but I would also try psychmeds after all else fails. My experiences with psychmeds was not good but we all respond differently. Disorders such as Depression and GAD can have a brain chemical imbalance factor and needs to be addressed by a professional(a real MD/Psychiatrist) not someone who thinks they really cured it by stopping sugar! Many of us who develope IBS worry excessively and become anxious and seem to have some of these disorders when we don't. Many IBS/D people can tell you that when they took Lotronex(which blocks the seratonin in the gut nerves) that not only did the diarrhea stop but the anxiety/nervousness and depression also stopped. Good luck, Norb


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Wow, a HUGE thank you for all of the responses to my plea for help. Flux, I tried fasting for a day or so, but it was too difficult to refrain from all food. I did notice less gas, so I am 100% sure that it is bacterial fermentation. Instead of eliminating all food, I have decided to eliminate all breads (anything containing flour). Sooz recommended that, and it was something that I have been trying to do for a while. Most of my calories are breads, crackers, and other bland carbs. They are safety foods for the IBS, but bad on gas. My doctor tested me for Celiac disease with a new blood test, and it came back negative. Does anybody know the accuracy of testing for Celiac through bloodwork? Also, even though it was negative, will eliminating foods with flour reduce gas in a person WITHOUT Celiac? This gas problem is such a trial and error thing. I wish that I could survive on rice and water for a while, but it's impossible. Thanks EVERYONE, for your responses. They are all helpful and I am going to try one thing at a time. Does anyone have any thoughts on the above? Darlene


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Wow, a HUGE thank you for all of the responses to my plea for help. Flux, I tried fasting for a day or so, but it was too difficult to refrain from all food. I did notice less gas, so I am 100% sure that it is bacterial fermentation. Instead of eliminating all food, I have decided to eliminate all breads (anything containing flour). Sooz recommended that, and it was something that I have been trying to do for a while. Most of my calories are breads, crackers, and other bland carbs. They are safety foods for the IBS, but bad on gas. My doctor tested me for Celiac disease with a new blood test, and it came back negative. Does anybody know the accuracy of testing for Celiac through bloodwork? Also, even though it was negative, will eliminating foods with flour reduce gas in a person WITHOUT Celiac? This gas problem is such a trial and error thing. I wish that I could survive on rice and water for a while, but it's impossible. Thanks EVERYONE, for your responses. They are all helpful and I am going to try one thing at a time. Does anyone have any thoughts on the above? Darlene


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:Flux, I tried fasting for a day or so, but it was too difficult to refrain from all food. I did notice less gas, so I am 100% sure that it is bacterial fermentation.


That doesn't sound like a good test. You really need at least 48 hours and the gas should nearly stop.


> quoteoes anybody know the accuracy of testing for Celiac through bloodwork? Also, even though it was negative, will eliminating foods with flour reduce gas in a person WITHOUT Celiac?


The older tests when combined and done correctly are virtually never wrong. I don't know enough about the new test. If you had celiac, you would have entirely eliminate all foods with gluten. Doing this takes a lot of effort. Ingredient lists should not be trusted.


> quote:This gas problem is such a trial and error thing.


It shouldn't really be. If it does turn out the gas is from bacterial fermentation, then you should try rice and water for a week or so and see how you do. You can then try a week of *Ensure* since you can live on it, and it should reasonably be absorbed. Then ideally, you want to ask your doctor to breath test for malabsorption of lactose, fructose and sucrose. In this level, you are trying to determine whether you malabsorb carbohydrates or whether your bacteria have somehow morphed.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:Flux, I tried fasting for a day or so, but it was too difficult to refrain from all food. I did notice less gas, so I am 100% sure that it is bacterial fermentation.


That doesn't sound like a good test. You really need at least 48 hours and the gas should nearly stop.


> quoteoes anybody know the accuracy of testing for Celiac through bloodwork? Also, even though it was negative, will eliminating foods with flour reduce gas in a person WITHOUT Celiac?


The older tests when combined and done correctly are virtually never wrong. I don't know enough about the new test. If you had celiac, you would have entirely eliminate all foods with gluten. Doing this takes a lot of effort. Ingredient lists should not be trusted.


> quote:This gas problem is such a trial and error thing.


It shouldn't really be. If it does turn out the gas is from bacterial fermentation, then you should try rice and water for a week or so and see how you do. You can then try a week of *Ensure* since you can live on it, and it should reasonably be absorbed. Then ideally, you want to ask your doctor to breath test for malabsorption of lactose, fructose and sucrose. In this level, you are trying to determine whether you malabsorb carbohydrates or whether your bacteria have somehow morphed.


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

First I appologize to others for the long post.helping always, if you have been reading this bb and researching IBS, how do you come up so much inacurate information?Unbelievable!!







Here is some top reasearch for you to read, it is not as easy as sugar.







The Enteric Nervous System: An Independent Mind The gastrointestinal (GI) tract is capable of self-regulating its activitieswithout the assistance of the central nervous system. Current researchsupports the belief that the gut is in possession of its own localized centralnervous system, which may orchestrate its specific functioning. Studies showthat the GI tract can self-initiate peristalsis without input from the vagus nerve(VIII), which relays information between the gut and the brain. Researchersbelieve that the gut utilizes classic neurotransmitters and peptides in a wayparalleling the physiological functioning of the brain. This theory offers newinsight into the conceptual understanding of many diseases of the GI system,such as the Functional and Irritable Bowel Disorders. Potential treatments forthese disorders may be inferred from current new and exciting researchcontributions that explain these pathologies relative to the levels ofpsychoactive substances in the gut. It is well known that the brain functions independently from CNShierarchical control. However, it is subject to the modification of activity bysignals from the CNS transmitted via the vagus nerve (Kunze, 1999). TheEnteric Nervous System (ENS) is responsible for autonomous regulation of thegastrointestinal system. The ENS is a specialized subdivision of the autonomicnervous system, a network of neuronal control beyond the realm of consciousawareness. The Autonomic Nervous System is also largely responsible forinvoluntary regulation of visceral and gland smooth muscle. These impulsesoften do not reach our consciousness, but elicit largely automatic or reflexresponses through the efferent autonomic nerves. The ANS thereby evokesappropriate reactions of the heart, the vascular system, and all the organs ofthe body to variations in environmental temperature, posture, food intake,stressful experiences and exposed environmental conditions. In contrast tothe autonomic system, the skeletal motor system is composed of neurons thatprimarily control and articulate volitional behaviors that require skeletal musclemovement. The nervous system of the gut controls local reflexes of muscle contractionsin response to distension and food intake in the absence of CNS intervention. The ENS is unique from the anatomical composition of the neural circuitry ofthe brain. Neurons of the gut are assembled into two separate networks of cellbodies and fibers, or plexi. Located between the 2 layers of smooth muscle ofthe GI tract is Auerbachï¿½s plexus, or the myenteric plexus. A smaller system,Meissnerï¿½s or the submucosal plexus, can be found in the submucosa, a layerof dense connective tissue inferior to the mucosal lining of the gut cavity(Sarosi, 1998). Electrophysiology has concluded that the vagus does notinnervate the submucosal plexus (Moore, 1998). Two layers of muscle encircle the gut and are functionally responsible forperistaltic movements. Peristalsis is characterized by alternating phases ofrelaxation and contraction of circular and longitudinal muscles. A ring ofmuscle contraction appears on the oral side of a bolus and moves toward theanus, propelling the contents of the lumen in that direction; as the ring moves,the muscle on the other side of the distended area relaxes, facilitating passageof the bolus. Segmentation contractions is a common type of motile mixingseen primarily in the small intestine - segmental rings of contraction chop andmix the ingested bolus. Alternating contraction and relaxation of thelongitudinal muscle in the wall of the gut also provides effective mixing of itscontents. Therefore, circular and longitudinal muscle contractile patterns arenegatively correlated during segmental peristalsis (Yamamoto, 1998). Baylissand Starling defined peristalsis as mediated alternating contractions (ascendingexcitatory reflexes) and relaxation (descending inhibitory reflexes) as afunction neural control of smooth muscle (Kunze, 1999). The gut is the only organ capable of intrinsic, self-initiated behavior inabsence of brain or spinal cord input. The ENS is functionally capable ofexpressing multiple analogs of the spinal cord reflex through microcircuitinnervation. The GI plexi are composed of motorneurons that excite or inhibitmuscles and/or glands, sensory receptors, primary afferents, interneurons, andalso communicate with neighboring glia (Gershon, 1999). ENS glia outnumberneurons 2 to 1 and play a functional role in message conductance signaling. Glial cells display "capacitative Ca2+ entry" a regulated channel-mediatedinflux response to depletion of glial calcium in response to high action potentialactivity in the gut (Sarosi, 1998). Structural similarities exist between the gliaof the ENS and the astrocytes of the CNS. Enteric neurons are anatomicallyassociated with glial cells in contrast to Schwann cell support. Enteric neuronsalso exist in absence of a collagen-based matrix, paralleling central neuronalenvironments (Gershon, 1998). An important topic explored in current research is the concept of the"second brain." Why would evolution select for a compact, independentsystem of neurons? This intrinsic nervous system is convenient from theperspective of an organismï¿½s safety and subsistence; it can evaluate situationsbased on sensory input, and decide how the digestive tract can best contributeto the animal's survival. The advantage of having a gut brain to takeresponsibility for digestion is two-fold: first, it is very close to the structures itregulates, secondly, it diminishes the necessity for a large communicationsystem between the brain the gut. The enteric nervous system function parallels the intrinsic and complexcoordination and integration of polysynaptic potentials (PSPï¿½s) of the CNS. Interneuronal PSPï¿½s coordinate ascending and descending reflex motorneurons of the intestinal plexi. These pathways control for the major functionalproperties of the gut. The myenteric plexus controls motility whereassubmucosal plexus is responsible for mucosal secretion, control of water andelectrolyte transport (Kunze, 1999), and local blood flow in response to gutdistension. A pathway originating in the myenteric plexus that extends to thesubmucosal plexus mediates communication of the plexi. The theory fornetwork interconnection is supported by evidence of coordination betweenmuscle contractions and mucus secretions (Moore, 2000). Some studies alsosuggest that myenteric neurons stimulate submucosal neurons through eitherfast and/or slow EPSPï¿½s. Researchers have found that the submucosal plexuscontrols for a localized response to stimuli in the lumen. These reflexes areorganized to respond in a circumferential and descending fashion (Moore,1998). Myenteric neurons send projections to submucosal S neurons tocoordinate contraction with secretion and vasodilation. This theory has beensupported through research that has found that submucosal excitatory synapticinputs were decreased when processes from the myenteric plexus weredestroyed. S type neurons are motor-responsive in nature and directly activatevessels and glands (Moore, 2000). Anatomical and physiological studies of the gut have revealed themorphology of a typical neuron of the enteric nervous system. Sixteen types ofneurons exist in the circuitry of the gut. Intestinal plexi are complex circuits ofneurons capable of long projections that perform gut-mediated reflexcontractions. Motorneurons of the Dogiel type 1 or filamentous morphology,project locally from the myenteric pleus to the circular and longitudinalmuscles. Inhibitory and excitatory neurons help regulate intestinal smoothmuscle, glands, and blood vessels. Intrinsic primary afferents, displaying TypeII morphology, bifurcate projections to the mucosa and myenteric ganglia. Neurons that control secretions and/or blood vessel vasoconstriction haveType III morphology (LePard, 1999). The submucosal plexus is composed ofS neurons that control secretory functions and local blood flow. Four chemicalclasses of neurons have been identified within the submucosal plexus, whichcan be identified by peptides and various neurotransmitters (Moore, 1998). Intrinsic primary afferents (IPANï¿½s) allow the gut to self-initiate reflexes andgenerate motility patterns without CNS regulation via 5-HT release from thestimulated mucosa. These mediated reflexes require intricate connectionsbetween submucosal and myenteric plexi to promote synchronous musclecontraction, vessel dilation, and digestive enzyme secretion. Chemicals in thelumen or muscle tension (distension) directly activate IPANï¿½s. Enterochromaffin cells (EC) of the gut release 5-HT on response to chemicalentry into the lumen, distension, or mechanical stroking (Pan, 2000; Kunze,1999). Studies have shown that jejunal mucosal stroking causes the release of5-HT from EC of the gut and activates neural reflex pathways. This specificreflex induces a propulsive contractile response and chloride secretion, whichis characterized by a positive change is short-circuit current (Kellum, 1999). A - ganglia and interneurons of the submucosal plexus B - submucosal arteries exhibit 5-HT agonist immunoreactivity C - high power submucosal ganglia D - immunoreactivity of 5-HT receptor agonists in ganglia Pan et al, J Neurosci, 17 (3) Studies have shown that direct mechanical mucosal stimulation propels therelease of 5-HT and activates afferents of the submucosa. Slow EPSPï¿½s makedirect connections with motorneurons and ascending and descendinginterneurons of the mucosa, which control caudal contractile activity throughthe gut. Interneurons of the ascending and descending functionality formpolysynaptic chains that have the capacity to coordinate muscle activity overlong distances (Moore, 1998). Peristalsis is mediated by excitatory and inhibitory motorneurons, whose cellbodies are located in the gut wall (Kunze, 1999). Tension activates IPANï¿½sduring periods of distension whereas neuronal activation is suppressed duringmuscle relaxation. Reciprocal mechanisms control peristaltic performance ofthe gut; muscle stretch imposes tension on IPANï¿½s which elicits potentials thatinitiate enteric reflexes through muscle contraction (Kunze, 1999). Simple drawing of enteric circuits for motility reflexes 1 = IPAN with soma in myenteric plexus 2 = ascending neuron 3 = descending neuron 4 = descending interneuron 5 = inhibitory motorneuron 6 = excitatory motor neuron 7 = IPAN with soma in submucosal plexus LM = longituginal muscle CM = circular muscle SM = submucosa muc = mucosa The enteric nervous system operates with a symphony of neurotransmittersand peptides that serve as active messengers of signaling and transmission inthe enteric nervous system. Two important transmitters of the ENS areacetylcholine and norepinephrine, which also play major roles in motorautonomic and skeletal peripheral nervous systems. Recently, studies on thegut have labeled serotonin as a potent factor in intestinal operation. Serotoninhas been linked to pathopsychological illnesses, such as depression, stress, andanxiety disorders. Serotonin is a multifaceted neurotransmitter involved in the modulation ofmood, emotion, sleep and appetite and thus controls numerous behavioral andphysiological functions. Decreased serotoninergic neurotransmission ishypothesized to play a key role in the pathology of depression. Theconcentration of synaptic serotonin is controlled directly by its reuptake intothe pre-synaptic terminal. Drugs blocking serotonin transport have beensuccessfully used for the treatment of depression. In addition to tricyclicantidepressants, which also block noradrenaline reuptake, specific serotoninreuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) are increasingly prescribed for depressed patients.The mechanism of antidepressant drug action and symptomatic alleviation ofdepression, investigated both neurobiologically and clinically over the lastyears, are not yet understood. Utilizing brain-imaging techniques, researchershave seen inadequate activity involving the brain chemical serotonin in peoplewho have major depression. Researchers have only hypothesized this linkbetween depression and serotonin activity until research on depressive illnessoffered direct visual evidence. Multiple receptor subtypes have been isolated on enteric neurons thatcontribute to complex intestinal responses to serotonin. Serotonin has beenfound to activate the peristaltic reflex. IPANï¿½s can initiate contractile reflexesmediated by the application of 5-HT with a robust depolarization, characterizedby G-protein receptor inhibition of calcium activated K+ conductance. Serotonin serves as a robust stimulus that activates submucosal neurons; theability of the intestines to self-initiate potentials stimulates contractile proteinsof smooth muscle. The pacemaker of the gut, the Interstitial Cells of Cajal(ICC), is located at the antral region of the stomach wall. Dense intestinalplexus networks use slow waves to propagate potentials caudally through thebowels. The ICC, a diffuse group of cells, are responsible for the overallelectrical rhythmicity of gut muscle movements (Szurszewski, 1998). Motilitydisorders have been identified by ICC malfunction and improper utilization of5-HT. Another region of interest in the gut is the sphincter of Oddi (SO), aspecific valve that regulates bile and pancreatic secretion flow into theduodenum. The neural formation of the SO appears to be innervated by themyenteric plexus which controls muscle movement. Studies show that 5-HTmay play a role in neural control of sphincter regulation. Peristalsis stimulates5-HT release, which relaxes the sphincter of Oddi to enable digestive juiceentry into the lumen of the gut (Hillsley, 1998). Research has determined that serotininergic pathways are importantmediators of the gastrocolonic reflex: propulsions of colonic muscles inresponse to a chemical or distension-related stimulus in the antral portion ofthe stomach. This intrinsic reflex may play a vital role in the mediation ofcolonic response activity; increase in colonic contractions propel coloniccontents within the first 30 min after meal ingestion, followed by a repeatedresponse about an hour after eating. Studies have shown that a 5-HT receptorantagonist suppresses the local colonic reflex in humans (Bjornsson, 1998). It is well established that many substances that are potentially psychoactiveand/or widespread throughout the somatic nervous system are significantlypotent in the gut. Ninety-five percent of serotonin is localized in serotoninergicplexi and enterocromaffin cells of the gut (Schuster, 2000). Serotonin is released into intestinal circulation from enteric neurons(Bjornsson, 1998) and stimulates both intestinal peristalsis and colonicmovement after eating. A reduced level of 5-HT, which may precludeintestinal stasis, reduces gastric compliance and accommodation reflexes. Low compliance often antagonizes post-meal bloating and distensionpathologies. Serotonin antagonists are used to slow colonic transit indiarrhea-characterized irritable bowel states for compensatory nutrientabsorption (Bjornsson, 1998). A - submucosal plexus - marker of sympathetic innervation B - submucosal plexus - denervated intestines show no sympatheticinnervation C - myenteric plexus - marker of sympathetic innervation D - myenteric plexus - denervated intestines show no sympatheticinnervation Pan and Gershon, J Neurosci, 20 (9) Research on the gut has supported the belief that gastrointestinal disordersthat covary with psychological disorders cannot be reduced to psychosomaticexplanations. Psychological pathology appears to be more of a cofactor than acausal influence on illness. Currently, studies on the relationship betweengastrointestinal disease and mental illness focus on the anatomic levels ofserotonin present in the body. It has been suggested that prolonged stressors,anxiety-causing events, and depressive syndromes may precede dysfunctionalbowel disorders (Szurszewski, 1998) Gastrointestinal disorders (GID), abnormalities in healthy gut performance, arecharacterized by uncomfortable bouts of visceral inflammation andhypersensitivity, abdominal swelling, pain, and bowel dysfunction (Baugh,1999; Bouras, 1999; Crouch, 1998; Depoorte, 1999; Hathaway, 1999; Kuiken,1999; Ludwig, 1999; Million, 1999; Plaiasancie, 1998; Reigler, 1999; Shi,1999). A variety of disorders encompass the category of "functional GID." Themost prevalent disorders are the bowel disorders: irritable bowel syndrome(IBS), abdominal bloating, functional constipation or diarrhea; functionalabdominal pain; and specific duodenal dyspepsia disorders. A person maysuffer from one or more gastrointestinal ailments at one time. Gene mutation(Gershon, 1999) and intestinal ischemia, which disrupts normal blood flow andimpairs motor and secretory enteric function (Deshpande, 1999), have beenrecognized as the main factors involved with intestinal disorders. It is possiblethat intestinal disorders that covary with mental illness can be attributed tofaulty systems of neuroenteric regulation (Kuiken, 1999; Szurszewski, 1998). Most patents with GID have states of visceral hypersensitivity and allodynia(hyperalgesia) (Bouras, 1999). GID may lower pain thresholds and increasediscomfort during the eating phases of the ingestion cycle; research suggestspain and discomfort during periods of balloon distention in GID patients. Hyperalgesia is proposed to be influenced by local nerve irritation, alteredmotility, and inflammation (Kuiken, 1999). Inflammation plays a role inincreasing responsiveness of primary afferents or C fibers to mechanicaldistension that ultimately leads to enhanced pain sensitivity. Balloondistension studies have shown lower pain thresholds in patients with GID,especially Irritable bowel syndrome. Single photon emission computedtomography (SPECT) scans have suggested that specific brain centers maycontrol this sensitivity to visceral stimulation. The frontal cortex is activeduring bouts of intestinal pain; this region is also responsible for mediatingemotional response and unpleasant memory recall (Bouras, 1999). Inflammatory states may also hypersensitize serotoninergic neurons of the gutthat usually transmit messages to the brain beneath conscious awarenessduring non-edema states. The brain receives this exaggerated information assignals of pain or irritation. Paralleling the importance of gut 5-HT (Kellum, 1999), depressive illnessesare linked to the functional levels of centrally localized 5-HT. Research hasdetermined plausible psychobiological contributors for these diseases. Pathopsychological dysfunction, such as anxiety or depressive illness, may linkgastrointestinal disorders to the absence of psychological well being in anindividual (Drossman, 1998). The incidence of mental disorders such asdepression, Generalized Anxiety Disorder, and panic disorder is higher in GIDpatients than in the control population. Family history of GID patients showsincreased circumstance of anxiety and depression. Researchers and health professionals have postulated two consistent,compatible theories of depression. The first theory is based on amine(serotonin and norepinephrine) deficiency; the second is based on excessivehypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) axis activity. The biogenic amine theoryproposes that drugs that tend to increase amine availabilty have been shown toalleviate depression. Several studies have linked the hyperactivity of the HPAsystem with depressive symptomologies. Depressed patients have titeredhigher levels of cortisol in the plasma, urine, and CSF levels than in healthycontrol subjects. The overall response to ACTH was found to be exaggeratedin depression (Price, 1997). Prolonged periods of stress and anxiety are proposed to activate thehypothalamic- pituitary-adrenal (HPA) axis, which increases the release ofcorticotropin-releasing factor (CRF) (Martinez, 1998; Pacak, 1999). Recentstudies have also determined that short-term stress exposure worsens colitis inrats (Million, 1999). Excessive HPA activity has also been linked todepressive disorder (Price, 1997). Peripheral CRF is involved with mediatingan organismï¿½s behavior, immunity, pain sensitivity, and visceral responses. The gastrointestinal tract and the vagus nerve (VIII) possess numerous CRFreceptors of the CRF-R2 subtype. A specific clone of CRF, urocortin, hasbeen found to inhibit gastric emptying in somatic circulation, which precedesintestinal bloating and inhibition of smooth muscular tone. Acute stress stimulialso inhibit gastric emptying in rodents (Nozu, 1999). These findings offersupport for a stress-induced model of gastrointestinal dysfunction. However,studies have not completely supported similar finding for centrally localizedCRF which may prolong the onset of inflammation (Million, 1999), althoughthese findings are not typical (Nozu, 1999). It has been theorized that patients with inflammatory bowel diseases have ananxiety-prone personality (Kiliaan, 1999). Stress states, triggered by therelease of CRF and subsequent molecule release, may also provoke abnormalstates of intestinal inflammation and altered functional motility. This pathologyincreases the permeability of intestinal epithelia, which permits the entry ofpathogens and undigested food into the cells of the gut (Baugh, 1999; Bouras,1999; Crouch, 1998; Depoorte, 1999; Hathaway, 1999; Kuiken, 1999; Ludwig,1999; Million, 1999; Plaiasancie, 1998; Reigler, 1999; Shi, 1999). Tightjunctions connect sheets of epithelial cells (lamina propria) that cover themucosa of the GI tract in non-stressed states. Macromolecule uptake increases susceptibility to inflammatory disease. Research has shown that stressed rats suffered from significant increases inepithelial permeability in the small and large intestine. Inflammationresponses, which are mast cell and Substance P dependent (Castagliuolo,1998; Kiliaan, 1999), are also paired with excessive mucus secretion,alterations in bowel transit, increases in mesenteric blood flow (Ludwig, 1999;Hathaway, 1999), and enhanced ion/fluid secretion to cleanse the lumen ofharmful foreign particles (Santos, 1999). Inflammatory responses result fromchanges in vascular permeability; research supports that these systems also arenot restricted to the gut and increase permeability of blood-brain capillaries. These findings may support a common mechanism between the brain and thegut (Hathaway, 1999). This highly intriguing question exists for the most curious of all minds. Whyarenï¿½t all GID patients on antidepressants to improve the functionality of thegut? Most frequently, antidepressant drug supplementation is administered tomental health patients to increase central functional 5-HT levels. Parallelingthis typical treatment, antidepressant use for GI disorder recovery receivessome negative support. The operational mechanism of psychoactiveantidepressants saturates gut receptors and desensitizes them to the presenceof 5-HT (Gershon, 1998). It is possible that weak serotonin agonists may besafe enough to increase synaptic availability of 5-HT to promote motility andenhanced gastric functioning. The future looks encouraging for prospective treatments for enteric nervoussystem disease. Current studies are successfully cloning serotoninergicreceptors to assist in developing a refined understanding of the complex andintricate role of 5-HT in the gut. Research in this field ofneurogastroenterology may focus on pharmacological treatments involving5-HT - the link between the common "psychopathy" of the brain and the gut. Treatments for mentally healthy patients with GID are also promising todiminish the suffering of people that experience pathological dysfunction of theremarkable second brain.


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

First I appologize to others for the long post.helping always, if you have been reading this bb and researching IBS, how do you come up so much inacurate information?Unbelievable!!







Here is some top reasearch for you to read, it is not as easy as sugar.







The Enteric Nervous System: An Independent Mind The gastrointestinal (GI) tract is capable of self-regulating its activitieswithout the assistance of the central nervous system. Current researchsupports the belief that the gut is in possession of its own localized centralnervous system, which may orchestrate its specific functioning. Studies showthat the GI tract can self-initiate peristalsis without input from the vagus nerve(VIII), which relays information between the gut and the brain. Researchersbelieve that the gut utilizes classic neurotransmitters and peptides in a wayparalleling the physiological functioning of the brain. This theory offers newinsight into the conceptual understanding of many diseases of the GI system,such as the Functional and Irritable Bowel Disorders. Potential treatments forthese disorders may be inferred from current new and exciting researchcontributions that explain these pathologies relative to the levels ofpsychoactive substances in the gut. It is well known that the brain functions independently from CNShierarchical control. However, it is subject to the modification of activity bysignals from the CNS transmitted via the vagus nerve (Kunze, 1999). TheEnteric Nervous System (ENS) is responsible for autonomous regulation of thegastrointestinal system. The ENS is a specialized subdivision of the autonomicnervous system, a network of neuronal control beyond the realm of consciousawareness. The Autonomic Nervous System is also largely responsible forinvoluntary regulation of visceral and gland smooth muscle. These impulsesoften do not reach our consciousness, but elicit largely automatic or reflexresponses through the efferent autonomic nerves. The ANS thereby evokesappropriate reactions of the heart, the vascular system, and all the organs ofthe body to variations in environmental temperature, posture, food intake,stressful experiences and exposed environmental conditions. In contrast tothe autonomic system, the skeletal motor system is composed of neurons thatprimarily control and articulate volitional behaviors that require skeletal musclemovement. The nervous system of the gut controls local reflexes of muscle contractionsin response to distension and food intake in the absence of CNS intervention. The ENS is unique from the anatomical composition of the neural circuitry ofthe brain. Neurons of the gut are assembled into two separate networks of cellbodies and fibers, or plexi. Located between the 2 layers of smooth muscle ofthe GI tract is Auerbachï¿½s plexus, or the myenteric plexus. A smaller system,Meissnerï¿½s or the submucosal plexus, can be found in the submucosa, a layerof dense connective tissue inferior to the mucosal lining of the gut cavity(Sarosi, 1998). Electrophysiology has concluded that the vagus does notinnervate the submucosal plexus (Moore, 1998). Two layers of muscle encircle the gut and are functionally responsible forperistaltic movements. Peristalsis is characterized by alternating phases ofrelaxation and contraction of circular and longitudinal muscles. A ring ofmuscle contraction appears on the oral side of a bolus and moves toward theanus, propelling the contents of the lumen in that direction; as the ring moves,the muscle on the other side of the distended area relaxes, facilitating passageof the bolus. Segmentation contractions is a common type of motile mixingseen primarily in the small intestine - segmental rings of contraction chop andmix the ingested bolus. Alternating contraction and relaxation of thelongitudinal muscle in the wall of the gut also provides effective mixing of itscontents. Therefore, circular and longitudinal muscle contractile patterns arenegatively correlated during segmental peristalsis (Yamamoto, 1998). Baylissand Starling defined peristalsis as mediated alternating contractions (ascendingexcitatory reflexes) and relaxation (descending inhibitory reflexes) as afunction neural control of smooth muscle (Kunze, 1999). The gut is the only organ capable of intrinsic, self-initiated behavior inabsence of brain or spinal cord input. The ENS is functionally capable ofexpressing multiple analogs of the spinal cord reflex through microcircuitinnervation. The GI plexi are composed of motorneurons that excite or inhibitmuscles and/or glands, sensory receptors, primary afferents, interneurons, andalso communicate with neighboring glia (Gershon, 1999). ENS glia outnumberneurons 2 to 1 and play a functional role in message conductance signaling. Glial cells display "capacitative Ca2+ entry" a regulated channel-mediatedinflux response to depletion of glial calcium in response to high action potentialactivity in the gut (Sarosi, 1998). Structural similarities exist between the gliaof the ENS and the astrocytes of the CNS. Enteric neurons are anatomicallyassociated with glial cells in contrast to Schwann cell support. Enteric neuronsalso exist in absence of a collagen-based matrix, paralleling central neuronalenvironments (Gershon, 1998). An important topic explored in current research is the concept of the"second brain." Why would evolution select for a compact, independentsystem of neurons? This intrinsic nervous system is convenient from theperspective of an organismï¿½s safety and subsistence; it can evaluate situationsbased on sensory input, and decide how the digestive tract can best contributeto the animal's survival. The advantage of having a gut brain to takeresponsibility for digestion is two-fold: first, it is very close to the structures itregulates, secondly, it diminishes the necessity for a large communicationsystem between the brain the gut. The enteric nervous system function parallels the intrinsic and complexcoordination and integration of polysynaptic potentials (PSPï¿½s) of the CNS. Interneuronal PSPï¿½s coordinate ascending and descending reflex motorneurons of the intestinal plexi. These pathways control for the major functionalproperties of the gut. The myenteric plexus controls motility whereassubmucosal plexus is responsible for mucosal secretion, control of water andelectrolyte transport (Kunze, 1999), and local blood flow in response to gutdistension. A pathway originating in the myenteric plexus that extends to thesubmucosal plexus mediates communication of the plexi. The theory fornetwork interconnection is supported by evidence of coordination betweenmuscle contractions and mucus secretions (Moore, 2000). Some studies alsosuggest that myenteric neurons stimulate submucosal neurons through eitherfast and/or slow EPSPï¿½s. Researchers have found that the submucosal plexuscontrols for a localized response to stimuli in the lumen. These reflexes areorganized to respond in a circumferential and descending fashion (Moore,1998). Myenteric neurons send projections to submucosal S neurons tocoordinate contraction with secretion and vasodilation. This theory has beensupported through research that has found that submucosal excitatory synapticinputs were decreased when processes from the myenteric plexus weredestroyed. S type neurons are motor-responsive in nature and directly activatevessels and glands (Moore, 2000). Anatomical and physiological studies of the gut have revealed themorphology of a typical neuron of the enteric nervous system. Sixteen types ofneurons exist in the circuitry of the gut. Intestinal plexi are complex circuits ofneurons capable of long projections that perform gut-mediated reflexcontractions. Motorneurons of the Dogiel type 1 or filamentous morphology,project locally from the myenteric pleus to the circular and longitudinalmuscles. Inhibitory and excitatory neurons help regulate intestinal smoothmuscle, glands, and blood vessels. Intrinsic primary afferents, displaying TypeII morphology, bifurcate projections to the mucosa and myenteric ganglia. Neurons that control secretions and/or blood vessel vasoconstriction haveType III morphology (LePard, 1999). The submucosal plexus is composed ofS neurons that control secretory functions and local blood flow. Four chemicalclasses of neurons have been identified within the submucosal plexus, whichcan be identified by peptides and various neurotransmitters (Moore, 1998). Intrinsic primary afferents (IPANï¿½s) allow the gut to self-initiate reflexes andgenerate motility patterns without CNS regulation via 5-HT release from thestimulated mucosa. These mediated reflexes require intricate connectionsbetween submucosal and myenteric plexi to promote synchronous musclecontraction, vessel dilation, and digestive enzyme secretion. Chemicals in thelumen or muscle tension (distension) directly activate IPANï¿½s. Enterochromaffin cells (EC) of the gut release 5-HT on response to chemicalentry into the lumen, distension, or mechanical stroking (Pan, 2000; Kunze,1999). Studies have shown that jejunal mucosal stroking causes the release of5-HT from EC of the gut and activates neural reflex pathways. This specificreflex induces a propulsive contractile response and chloride secretion, whichis characterized by a positive change is short-circuit current (Kellum, 1999). A - ganglia and interneurons of the submucosal plexus B - submucosal arteries exhibit 5-HT agonist immunoreactivity C - high power submucosal ganglia D - immunoreactivity of 5-HT receptor agonists in ganglia Pan et al, J Neurosci, 17 (3) Studies have shown that direct mechanical mucosal stimulation propels therelease of 5-HT and activates afferents of the submucosa. Slow EPSPï¿½s makedirect connections with motorneurons and ascending and descendinginterneurons of the mucosa, which control caudal contractile activity throughthe gut. Interneurons of the ascending and descending functionality formpolysynaptic chains that have the capacity to coordinate muscle activity overlong distances (Moore, 1998). Peristalsis is mediated by excitatory and inhibitory motorneurons, whose cellbodies are located in the gut wall (Kunze, 1999). Tension activates IPANï¿½sduring periods of distension whereas neuronal activation is suppressed duringmuscle relaxation. Reciprocal mechanisms control peristaltic performance ofthe gut; muscle stretch imposes tension on IPANï¿½s which elicits potentials thatinitiate enteric reflexes through muscle contraction (Kunze, 1999). Simple drawing of enteric circuits for motility reflexes 1 = IPAN with soma in myenteric plexus 2 = ascending neuron 3 = descending neuron 4 = descending interneuron 5 = inhibitory motorneuron 6 = excitatory motor neuron 7 = IPAN with soma in submucosal plexus LM = longituginal muscle CM = circular muscle SM = submucosa muc = mucosa The enteric nervous system operates with a symphony of neurotransmittersand peptides that serve as active messengers of signaling and transmission inthe enteric nervous system. Two important transmitters of the ENS areacetylcholine and norepinephrine, which also play major roles in motorautonomic and skeletal peripheral nervous systems. Recently, studies on thegut have labeled serotonin as a potent factor in intestinal operation. Serotoninhas been linked to pathopsychological illnesses, such as depression, stress, andanxiety disorders. Serotonin is a multifaceted neurotransmitter involved in the modulation ofmood, emotion, sleep and appetite and thus controls numerous behavioral andphysiological functions. Decreased serotoninergic neurotransmission ishypothesized to play a key role in the pathology of depression. Theconcentration of synaptic serotonin is controlled directly by its reuptake intothe pre-synaptic terminal. Drugs blocking serotonin transport have beensuccessfully used for the treatment of depression. In addition to tricyclicantidepressants, which also block noradrenaline reuptake, specific serotoninreuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) are increasingly prescribed for depressed patients.The mechanism of antidepressant drug action and symptomatic alleviation ofdepression, investigated both neurobiologically and clinically over the lastyears, are not yet understood. Utilizing brain-imaging techniques, researchershave seen inadequate activity involving the brain chemical serotonin in peoplewho have major depression. Researchers have only hypothesized this linkbetween depression and serotonin activity until research on depressive illnessoffered direct visual evidence. Multiple receptor subtypes have been isolated on enteric neurons thatcontribute to complex intestinal responses to serotonin. Serotonin has beenfound to activate the peristaltic reflex. IPANï¿½s can initiate contractile reflexesmediated by the application of 5-HT with a robust depolarization, characterizedby G-protein receptor inhibition of calcium activated K+ conductance. Serotonin serves as a robust stimulus that activates submucosal neurons; theability of the intestines to self-initiate potentials stimulates contractile proteinsof smooth muscle. The pacemaker of the gut, the Interstitial Cells of Cajal(ICC), is located at the antral region of the stomach wall. Dense intestinalplexus networks use slow waves to propagate potentials caudally through thebowels. The ICC, a diffuse group of cells, are responsible for the overallelectrical rhythmicity of gut muscle movements (Szurszewski, 1998). Motilitydisorders have been identified by ICC malfunction and improper utilization of5-HT. Another region of interest in the gut is the sphincter of Oddi (SO), aspecific valve that regulates bile and pancreatic secretion flow into theduodenum. The neural formation of the SO appears to be innervated by themyenteric plexus which controls muscle movement. Studies show that 5-HTmay play a role in neural control of sphincter regulation. Peristalsis stimulates5-HT release, which relaxes the sphincter of Oddi to enable digestive juiceentry into the lumen of the gut (Hillsley, 1998). Research has determined that serotininergic pathways are importantmediators of the gastrocolonic reflex: propulsions of colonic muscles inresponse to a chemical or distension-related stimulus in the antral portion ofthe stomach. This intrinsic reflex may play a vital role in the mediation ofcolonic response activity; increase in colonic contractions propel coloniccontents within the first 30 min after meal ingestion, followed by a repeatedresponse about an hour after eating. Studies have shown that a 5-HT receptorantagonist suppresses the local colonic reflex in humans (Bjornsson, 1998). It is well established that many substances that are potentially psychoactiveand/or widespread throughout the somatic nervous system are significantlypotent in the gut. Ninety-five percent of serotonin is localized in serotoninergicplexi and enterocromaffin cells of the gut (Schuster, 2000). Serotonin is released into intestinal circulation from enteric neurons(Bjornsson, 1998) and stimulates both intestinal peristalsis and colonicmovement after eating. A reduced level of 5-HT, which may precludeintestinal stasis, reduces gastric compliance and accommodation reflexes. Low compliance often antagonizes post-meal bloating and distensionpathologies. Serotonin antagonists are used to slow colonic transit indiarrhea-characterized irritable bowel states for compensatory nutrientabsorption (Bjornsson, 1998). A - submucosal plexus - marker of sympathetic innervation B - submucosal plexus - denervated intestines show no sympatheticinnervation C - myenteric plexus - marker of sympathetic innervation D - myenteric plexus - denervated intestines show no sympatheticinnervation Pan and Gershon, J Neurosci, 20 (9) Research on the gut has supported the belief that gastrointestinal disordersthat covary with psychological disorders cannot be reduced to psychosomaticexplanations. Psychological pathology appears to be more of a cofactor than acausal influence on illness. Currently, studies on the relationship betweengastrointestinal disease and mental illness focus on the anatomic levels ofserotonin present in the body. It has been suggested that prolonged stressors,anxiety-causing events, and depressive syndromes may precede dysfunctionalbowel disorders (Szurszewski, 1998) Gastrointestinal disorders (GID), abnormalities in healthy gut performance, arecharacterized by uncomfortable bouts of visceral inflammation andhypersensitivity, abdominal swelling, pain, and bowel dysfunction (Baugh,1999; Bouras, 1999; Crouch, 1998; Depoorte, 1999; Hathaway, 1999; Kuiken,1999; Ludwig, 1999; Million, 1999; Plaiasancie, 1998; Reigler, 1999; Shi,1999). A variety of disorders encompass the category of "functional GID." Themost prevalent disorders are the bowel disorders: irritable bowel syndrome(IBS), abdominal bloating, functional constipation or diarrhea; functionalabdominal pain; and specific duodenal dyspepsia disorders. A person maysuffer from one or more gastrointestinal ailments at one time. Gene mutation(Gershon, 1999) and intestinal ischemia, which disrupts normal blood flow andimpairs motor and secretory enteric function (Deshpande, 1999), have beenrecognized as the main factors involved with intestinal disorders. It is possiblethat intestinal disorders that covary with mental illness can be attributed tofaulty systems of neuroenteric regulation (Kuiken, 1999; Szurszewski, 1998). Most patents with GID have states of visceral hypersensitivity and allodynia(hyperalgesia) (Bouras, 1999). GID may lower pain thresholds and increasediscomfort during the eating phases of the ingestion cycle; research suggestspain and discomfort during periods of balloon distention in GID patients. Hyperalgesia is proposed to be influenced by local nerve irritation, alteredmotility, and inflammation (Kuiken, 1999). Inflammation plays a role inincreasing responsiveness of primary afferents or C fibers to mechanicaldistension that ultimately leads to enhanced pain sensitivity. Balloondistension studies have shown lower pain thresholds in patients with GID,especially Irritable bowel syndrome. Single photon emission computedtomography (SPECT) scans have suggested that specific brain centers maycontrol this sensitivity to visceral stimulation. The frontal cortex is activeduring bouts of intestinal pain; this region is also responsible for mediatingemotional response and unpleasant memory recall (Bouras, 1999). Inflammatory states may also hypersensitize serotoninergic neurons of the gutthat usually transmit messages to the brain beneath conscious awarenessduring non-edema states. The brain receives this exaggerated information assignals of pain or irritation. Paralleling the importance of gut 5-HT (Kellum, 1999), depressive illnessesare linked to the functional levels of centrally localized 5-HT. Research hasdetermined plausible psychobiological contributors for these diseases. Pathopsychological dysfunction, such as anxiety or depressive illness, may linkgastrointestinal disorders to the absence of psychological well being in anindividual (Drossman, 1998). The incidence of mental disorders such asdepression, Generalized Anxiety Disorder, and panic disorder is higher in GIDpatients than in the control population. Family history of GID patients showsincreased circumstance of anxiety and depression. Researchers and health professionals have postulated two consistent,compatible theories of depression. The first theory is based on amine(serotonin and norepinephrine) deficiency; the second is based on excessivehypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) axis activity. The biogenic amine theoryproposes that drugs that tend to increase amine availabilty have been shown toalleviate depression. Several studies have linked the hyperactivity of the HPAsystem with depressive symptomologies. Depressed patients have titeredhigher levels of cortisol in the plasma, urine, and CSF levels than in healthycontrol subjects. The overall response to ACTH was found to be exaggeratedin depression (Price, 1997). Prolonged periods of stress and anxiety are proposed to activate thehypothalamic- pituitary-adrenal (HPA) axis, which increases the release ofcorticotropin-releasing factor (CRF) (Martinez, 1998; Pacak, 1999). Recentstudies have also determined that short-term stress exposure worsens colitis inrats (Million, 1999). Excessive HPA activity has also been linked todepressive disorder (Price, 1997). Peripheral CRF is involved with mediatingan organismï¿½s behavior, immunity, pain sensitivity, and visceral responses. The gastrointestinal tract and the vagus nerve (VIII) possess numerous CRFreceptors of the CRF-R2 subtype. A specific clone of CRF, urocortin, hasbeen found to inhibit gastric emptying in somatic circulation, which precedesintestinal bloating and inhibition of smooth muscular tone. Acute stress stimulialso inhibit gastric emptying in rodents (Nozu, 1999). These findings offersupport for a stress-induced model of gastrointestinal dysfunction. However,studies have not completely supported similar finding for centrally localizedCRF which may prolong the onset of inflammation (Million, 1999), althoughthese findings are not typical (Nozu, 1999). It has been theorized that patients with inflammatory bowel diseases have ananxiety-prone personality (Kiliaan, 1999). Stress states, triggered by therelease of CRF and subsequent molecule release, may also provoke abnormalstates of intestinal inflammation and altered functional motility. This pathologyincreases the permeability of intestinal epithelia, which permits the entry ofpathogens and undigested food into the cells of the gut (Baugh, 1999; Bouras,1999; Crouch, 1998; Depoorte, 1999; Hathaway, 1999; Kuiken, 1999; Ludwig,1999; Million, 1999; Plaiasancie, 1998; Reigler, 1999; Shi, 1999). Tightjunctions connect sheets of epithelial cells (lamina propria) that cover themucosa of the GI tract in non-stressed states. Macromolecule uptake increases susceptibility to inflammatory disease. Research has shown that stressed rats suffered from significant increases inepithelial permeability in the small and large intestine. Inflammationresponses, which are mast cell and Substance P dependent (Castagliuolo,1998; Kiliaan, 1999), are also paired with excessive mucus secretion,alterations in bowel transit, increases in mesenteric blood flow (Ludwig, 1999;Hathaway, 1999), and enhanced ion/fluid secretion to cleanse the lumen ofharmful foreign particles (Santos, 1999). Inflammatory responses result fromchanges in vascular permeability; research supports that these systems also arenot restricted to the gut and increase permeability of blood-brain capillaries. These findings may support a common mechanism between the brain and thegut (Hathaway, 1999). This highly intriguing question exists for the most curious of all minds. Whyarenï¿½t all GID patients on antidepressants to improve the functionality of thegut? Most frequently, antidepressant drug supplementation is administered tomental health patients to increase central functional 5-HT levels. Parallelingthis typical treatment, antidepressant use for GI disorder recovery receivessome negative support. The operational mechanism of psychoactiveantidepressants saturates gut receptors and desensitizes them to the presenceof 5-HT (Gershon, 1998). It is possible that weak serotonin agonists may besafe enough to increase synaptic availability of 5-HT to promote motility andenhanced gastric functioning. The future looks encouraging for prospective treatments for enteric nervoussystem disease. Current studies are successfully cloning serotoninergicreceptors to assist in developing a refined understanding of the complex andintricate role of 5-HT in the gut. Research in this field ofneurogastroenterology may focus on pharmacological treatments involving5-HT - the link between the common "psychopathy" of the brain and the gut. Treatments for mentally healthy patients with GID are also promising todiminish the suffering of people that experience pathological dysfunction of theremarkable second brain.


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## admflo (Dec 1, 2001)

Flux, to respond to your previous post concerning the ginger and the gas, first, please reread what I wrote, I've been scoped twice. Second, I do have enough common sense to know when I'm not farting and that the severity of symptoms ceased when I began taking ginger. Therefore, my conclusion is, take the ginger or be embarrassed.


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## admflo (Dec 1, 2001)

Flux, to respond to your previous post concerning the ginger and the gas, first, please reread what I wrote, I've been scoped twice. Second, I do have enough common sense to know when I'm not farting and that the severity of symptoms ceased when I began taking ginger. Therefore, my conclusion is, take the ginger or be embarrassed.


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## Guest (Dec 31, 2001)

Wow, speaking of unbelievable......Not everyone is made the same...maybe you want to quote that flux....It seems you guys are sooooo far gone it's sad. STRESS causes IBS. End of story. Eating refined foods causes stress on the body. Now you can take all the pills you want but if you do not have proper diet, exercise and SR, you will never get over IBS. Instead of coming on the board looking for a new pill or some guys tape. Try searching leaky gut on the net, because anyone here with IBS has it. YOU NEED TO CURE LGS first before you can think of getting better. So Flux and BQ and the other guy with the clever post, best of luck with the IBS thing I am sure you know exactly how to stop it. I and many others don't even have any more symptoms. You do......but I guess you guys know what you are talking about. I think we should end the conversation here, becuase it can go on and on and on........And if it makes you happy...you are right, I think everyone with IBS should take the latest pill and buy tapes. I really do.


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## Guest (Dec 31, 2001)

Wow, speaking of unbelievable......Not everyone is made the same...maybe you want to quote that flux....It seems you guys are sooooo far gone it's sad. STRESS causes IBS. End of story. Eating refined foods causes stress on the body. Now you can take all the pills you want but if you do not have proper diet, exercise and SR, you will never get over IBS. Instead of coming on the board looking for a new pill or some guys tape. Try searching leaky gut on the net, because anyone here with IBS has it. YOU NEED TO CURE LGS first before you can think of getting better. So Flux and BQ and the other guy with the clever post, best of luck with the IBS thing I am sure you know exactly how to stop it. I and many others don't even have any more symptoms. You do......but I guess you guys know what you are talking about. I think we should end the conversation here, becuase it can go on and on and on........And if it makes you happy...you are right, I think everyone with IBS should take the latest pill and buy tapes. I really do.


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

Darlene, Hang in there.Flux, a question:Let's say Darlene does the fast and the burping stops. What does that tell us?And, what if she does the fast and the belching doesn't stop, what does that tell us?I'm just trying to get a grip on the science here, bear with me and Thanks.BQ


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

Darlene, Hang in there.Flux, a question:Let's say Darlene does the fast and the burping stops. What does that tell us?And, what if she does the fast and the belching doesn't stop, what does that tell us?I'm just trying to get a grip on the science here, bear with me and Thanks.BQ


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## norbert46 (Feb 20, 2001)

Helping Always, if I did not exactly say it in my post my IBS/D has also completely stopped after 35yrs of suffering. I also agree that pills should be avoided and used as a last resort. I do exercise and eat in moderation but I don't see where it would hurt for anyone to do more veggies and less sugar at all. The MD post that I found on LeakyGutSyndrome said increased veggies or going on a juice fast for a short period of time will completely repair the lining if you have that problem. Lastly your mention of "skilled relaxation" is something I have a lifetime of experience with. I have taken biofeedback training,meditation, and hypnosis in person and selfhypnosis. The tapes that you make light of are Mike's selfhypnosis program and as far as I've found to date the best,easiest to use, and least expensive "skilled relaxation" program that is available and according to Dr.Stoll's site that I found when looking up exactly what you were calling "skilled relaxation" he mentions selfhypnosis as a good practice. Maybe there is something else you consider better for relaxation but I haven't found it and my IBS/D is under control. Now one thing I did read that I won't consider is the "toxic flush" practice that I read about. Several years ago I read about that and started trying it and got diarrhea so bad that my MD sent me for all the tests again. After 8 days of severe diarrhea the BRAT diet finally stopped the problem and I'll never attempt that again! Norb


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## norbert46 (Feb 20, 2001)

Helping Always, if I did not exactly say it in my post my IBS/D has also completely stopped after 35yrs of suffering. I also agree that pills should be avoided and used as a last resort. I do exercise and eat in moderation but I don't see where it would hurt for anyone to do more veggies and less sugar at all. The MD post that I found on LeakyGutSyndrome said increased veggies or going on a juice fast for a short period of time will completely repair the lining if you have that problem. Lastly your mention of "skilled relaxation" is something I have a lifetime of experience with. I have taken biofeedback training,meditation, and hypnosis in person and selfhypnosis. The tapes that you make light of are Mike's selfhypnosis program and as far as I've found to date the best,easiest to use, and least expensive "skilled relaxation" program that is available and according to Dr.Stoll's site that I found when looking up exactly what you were calling "skilled relaxation" he mentions selfhypnosis as a good practice. Maybe there is something else you consider better for relaxation but I haven't found it and my IBS/D is under control. Now one thing I did read that I won't consider is the "toxic flush" practice that I read about. Several years ago I read about that and started trying it and got diarrhea so bad that my MD sent me for all the tests again. After 8 days of severe diarrhea the BRAT diet finally stopped the problem and I'll never attempt that again! Norb


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Help, your seriouly posting some bad un-informed info and that could directly effect peoples health on the internet here.Obviously, from your posts and that you have studied IBS, it would seem like you spent a whole of five minutes looking up what you believe and not the facts on IBS and what is known at this time.


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Help, your seriouly posting some bad un-informed info and that could directly effect peoples health on the internet here.Obviously, from your posts and that you have studied IBS, it would seem like you spent a whole of five minutes looking up what you believe and not the facts on IBS and what is known at this time.


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

BQ: The gas is not the burping kind, but it is the farting kind!







Flux: I really want to get to the bottom of this farting, but the fasting doesn't seem healthy for a person who is already struggling with weight. I can't afford to lose a pound. However, I will keep it in mind and discuss it with my doctor. Thanks!Darlene


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

BQ: The gas is not the burping kind, but it is the farting kind!







Flux: I really want to get to the bottom of this farting, but the fasting doesn't seem healthy for a person who is already struggling with weight. I can't afford to lose a pound. However, I will keep it in mind and discuss it with my doctor. Thanks!Darlene


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Norb:I'm glad to hear that you found relief after 35 years. Wow, what a relief for you! Thanks for posting.







Helping always: I eat a LOT better than most people that I know. Why do I have these symptoms and they feel great? Nothing about this condition makes any sense.Also, I think that I may have adhesions form my C-Section and it could be causing some of this. Does anyone else notice intestinal upset from adhesions? Flux, could adhesions cause gas? Thanks,Darlene


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Norb:I'm glad to hear that you found relief after 35 years. Wow, what a relief for you! Thanks for posting.







Helping always: I eat a LOT better than most people that I know. Why do I have these symptoms and they feel great? Nothing about this condition makes any sense.Also, I think that I may have adhesions form my C-Section and it could be causing some of this. Does anyone else notice intestinal upset from adhesions? Flux, could adhesions cause gas? Thanks,Darlene


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

LOL Sorry I had the wrong end Darlene







So Flux just turn my question upside down ok?Darlene, definitely discuss some more options with your Doc. I'm so sorry you have this symptom, yes I agree it would almost be easier to cope with D. This must have a tremendous impact on your life and I hope we can help ya out here a bit. (((Darlene))) Don't give up. I don't know enuf to tell ya whether or not adhesions can cause this symptom or not, I know they can cause all kinds of other problems, but gas specifically, I dunno. Perhaps Flux can help ya out here.I'll be thinking of you.BQ


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

LOL Sorry I had the wrong end Darlene







So Flux just turn my question upside down ok?Darlene, definitely discuss some more options with your Doc. I'm so sorry you have this symptom, yes I agree it would almost be easier to cope with D. This must have a tremendous impact on your life and I hope we can help ya out here a bit. (((Darlene))) Don't give up. I don't know enuf to tell ya whether or not adhesions can cause this symptom or not, I know they can cause all kinds of other problems, but gas specifically, I dunno. Perhaps Flux can help ya out here.I'll be thinking of you.BQ


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:Try searching leaky gut on the net, because anyone here with IBS has it.


More







)


> quote:Flux, could adhesions cause gas?


Adhesions cannot generate gas. They could impinge on the gut wall and wreak havoc probably by causing an obstruction and perhaps that would lead to "trapped" gas, at least until your intestine burst.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:Try searching leaky gut on the net, because anyone here with IBS has it.


More







)


> quote:Flux, could adhesions cause gas?


Adhesions cannot generate gas. They could impinge on the gut wall and wreak havoc probably by causing an obstruction and perhaps that would lead to "trapped" gas, at least until your intestine burst.


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

Thanks Flux, So As I understand it, if the flatulence continues after the fast, intestinal bacteria could be the culprit. I would assume, that an anti-biotic of some sort would be indicated, yes? What can be done about "atmospheric" or aerophagia originating flatulence?Thanks again.







BQ


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

Thanks Flux, So As I understand it, if the flatulence continues after the fast, intestinal bacteria could be the culprit. I would assume, that an anti-biotic of some sort would be indicated, yes? What can be done about "atmospheric" or aerophagia originating flatulence?Thanks again.







BQ


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

> quote:If the flatulence stops after a fast, it tells us the gas is coming from the atmosphere (i.e., aerophagia) and not the intestinal bacteria.


Flux, if she does the fast and the flatulence stops, you mean to say the flatulence must have come from bacterial fermentation of food-i.e no food left in her intestines, no flatulence.If the flatulence continues undiminished without food being left in her intestines, you know it is coming from the atmosphere.flux, i think you wrote it backwards







. Keeping track of all the negatives in the sentences made me positively dizzy.


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

> quote:If the flatulence stops after a fast, it tells us the gas is coming from the atmosphere (i.e., aerophagia) and not the intestinal bacteria.


Flux, if she does the fast and the flatulence stops, you mean to say the flatulence must have come from bacterial fermentation of food-i.e no food left in her intestines, no flatulence.If the flatulence continues undiminished without food being left in her intestines, you know it is coming from the atmosphere.flux, i think you wrote it backwards







. Keeping track of all the negatives in the sentences made me positively dizzy.


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Thanks BQ, Flux, Bonniei,for posting with your thoughts. I really appreciate it.Is it worth eliminating flour products if the Celiac test was negative? Even though the test was negative, could too many of these products cause this gas? If so, how long would it take to notice a difference after eliminating these foods? Sorry for all of the questions, but this condition is so confusing!Happy New Year to everyone! May our health problems disappear in 2002!Darlene


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Thanks BQ, Flux, Bonniei,for posting with your thoughts. I really appreciate it.Is it worth eliminating flour products if the Celiac test was negative? Even though the test was negative, could too many of these products cause this gas? If so, how long would it take to notice a difference after eliminating these foods? Sorry for all of the questions, but this condition is so confusing!Happy New Year to everyone! May our health problems disappear in 2002!Darlene


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

Yep, I had it backwards.







I edited in the correction above.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

Yep, I had it backwards.







I edited in the correction above.


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## LisaL (Nov 14, 2000)

As most people know already (I complain about it a lot) I have terrible gas, especially when I am at work and am eating healthy. Flux - why can't you turn all of your medical research into helpful suggestions? For example, if after fasting one's gas is reduced, what happens after eating rice and ensure? Then what happens after your handy malabsorption tests? If it is atmospheric, what does one do then?Lisa


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## LisaL (Nov 14, 2000)

As most people know already (I complain about it a lot) I have terrible gas, especially when I am at work and am eating healthy. Flux - why can't you turn all of your medical research into helpful suggestions? For example, if after fasting one's gas is reduced, what happens after eating rice and ensure? Then what happens after your handy malabsorption tests? If it is atmospheric, what does one do then?Lisa


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

Flux, Can ya still answer my question about what can be done about aerophagia originating flatulence???







Maybe I should ask this sideways cause I've already done "upside down" and you have already done "backwards"...







BQ


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

Flux, Can ya still answer my question about what can be done about aerophagia originating flatulence???







Maybe I should ask this sideways cause I've already done "upside down" and you have already done "backwards"...







BQ


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## abcdefg (Apr 1, 2001)

Have you tried a diet with no fruit/juice (esp. citrus), no sugar, no packaged or prepared food,no bread/crackers cereal, and low carbohydrates for about a week? I would avoid soup if you already have a gas problem.How about plain,homemade chicken/fish (no breading)/hamburger with salad /olive oil/vinegar (no bottled dressing), plain nuts (read label) like walnuts, peanuts. If you have already tried something like that what were results?


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## abcdefg (Apr 1, 2001)

Have you tried a diet with no fruit/juice (esp. citrus), no sugar, no packaged or prepared food,no bread/crackers cereal, and low carbohydrates for about a week? I would avoid soup if you already have a gas problem.How about plain,homemade chicken/fish (no breading)/hamburger with salad /olive oil/vinegar (no bottled dressing), plain nuts (read label) like walnuts, peanuts. If you have already tried something like that what were results?


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## genny (Jan 15, 2001)

I have moderate gas and just live with it. Gee, Eric, I get a kick out of your responses, I really do. Don't understand anything longer than a three letter word in most of them







but they are really informative. I find myself just going huh? but I'm really learning a lot. Wish I could say the same about my doctor.


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## genny (Jan 15, 2001)

I have moderate gas and just live with it. Gee, Eric, I get a kick out of your responses, I really do. Don't understand anything longer than a three letter word in most of them







but they are really informative. I find myself just going huh? but I'm really learning a lot. Wish I could say the same about my doctor.


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

What flux was saying was obvious to everyone LisaL but maybe not huh?Maybe I have heard it from flux so many times by now... IF flatulence diminishes after fasting, then the source of the flatulence is bacterial fermentation. so you have got figure out which food is not absorbed by the body because malabsorbed food is food for the bacteria. So you start out to find the safe/unsafe foods. Start with rice. If flatulence does not increase after a few days of rice, rice is safe. Same with ensure. Then you do the breath tests to see if you have a problem with absorbing fructose, lactose or sucrose. At this stage you are trying to see if you have a problem with malabsorbing sugars or the bacteria have morphed.Ok Flux was just getting into that. Bacteria have morphed into what, flux , if that is the right question?


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

What flux was saying was obvious to everyone LisaL but maybe not huh?Maybe I have heard it from flux so many times by now... IF flatulence diminishes after fasting, then the source of the flatulence is bacterial fermentation. so you have got figure out which food is not absorbed by the body because malabsorbed food is food for the bacteria. So you start out to find the safe/unsafe foods. Start with rice. If flatulence does not increase after a few days of rice, rice is safe. Same with ensure. Then you do the breath tests to see if you have a problem with absorbing fructose, lactose or sucrose. At this stage you are trying to see if you have a problem with malabsorbing sugars or the bacteria have morphed.Ok Flux was just getting into that. Bacteria have morphed into what, flux , if that is the right question?


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## LisaL (Nov 14, 2000)

Well Bonnie, I guess there has to be one dough head in every crowd, eh? I'll certainly volunteer for that role.My question also included asking for practical suggestions on what to do if the gas is atmospheric. Let's "morph" all this wonderful gobbledygook into actual advice.


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## LisaL (Nov 14, 2000)

Well Bonnie, I guess there has to be one dough head in every crowd, eh? I'll certainly volunteer for that role.My question also included asking for practical suggestions on what to do if the gas is atmospheric. Let's "morph" all this wonderful gobbledygook into actual advice.


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## jo-jo (Aug 19, 2001)

Hi DarleneAre you taking any medication? vitamins, herbs (especially St-John's Wort?). The st-John's is not supposed to cause intestinal upset but it was causing it for me.


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## jo-jo (Aug 19, 2001)

Hi DarleneAre you taking any medication? vitamins, herbs (especially St-John's Wort?). The st-John's is not supposed to cause intestinal upset but it was causing it for me.


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

LisaL- I promised myself I wouldn't get into an argument about flux. Sorry . Peace! I genuinely meant that flux has said all this in various ways before and maybe because I have always been open to his ideas I heard it. Anyway let us agree to disagree about flux.Anyway as far as flux giving us some practical advice is concerned, the problem is there is not a whole lot which can be done so it is a little unfair to expect flux to whip it out of thin air. He can only help us eliminate sources of gas. As far as aerophagia is concerned especially- you are better off if you have a problem with bacterial fermentation as you can then modify your diet. I don't know if tranquilizers or something like that might help as it might be a nervous habit. The one excessively flatulent patient who swallowed a lot of air could not be observed swallowing air. So how it happens is a mystery. Flux is being as helpful as he can be within the limitations of science, I think.


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

LisaL- I promised myself I wouldn't get into an argument about flux. Sorry . Peace! I genuinely meant that flux has said all this in various ways before and maybe because I have always been open to his ideas I heard it. Anyway let us agree to disagree about flux.Anyway as far as flux giving us some practical advice is concerned, the problem is there is not a whole lot which can be done so it is a little unfair to expect flux to whip it out of thin air. He can only help us eliminate sources of gas. As far as aerophagia is concerned especially- you are better off if you have a problem with bacterial fermentation as you can then modify your diet. I don't know if tranquilizers or something like that might help as it might be a nervous habit. The one excessively flatulent patient who swallowed a lot of air could not be observed swallowing air. So how it happens is a mystery. Flux is being as helpful as he can be within the limitations of science, I think.


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

And to clarify this statement before this sounds like gobbledygook(sp?):- the one excessively flatulent patient who swallowed air was not observed swallowing airHow did they realize he swallowed air?By Analysis of flatus


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

And to clarify this statement before this sounds like gobbledygook(sp?):- the one excessively flatulent patient who swallowed air was not observed swallowing airHow did they realize he swallowed air?By Analysis of flatus


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Thanks to everybody for trying to help me figure this out. Maybe we can all find an answer to this awful problem. It gets really depressing to be gassy and uncomfortable day and night.







Jo-jo, I don't take any meds anymore. I finally weaned off of librax. It wasn't helping with the gas problem at all. In fact, it seemed to be making it much worse. Is that possible, flux? It actually seemed to trap the gas more than ever! Right now, I am taking Gas-X with little results. I am trying to eliminate all breads and it's almost impossible. I ate a small amount of oatmeal this morning and almost died with the gas. That really makes me wonder if this is a gluten sensitivity. Like I mentioned in earlier posts, I was tested for celiac and it was negative. I read somewhere that it is possible to be "sensitive" to gluten products, but not allergic. I do understand what flux is talking about with the atmosphere vs. bacterial fermentation thing. However, it would be interesting to get the step by step information on how to figure out this whole gas thing and what happens after the rice/water/ensure diet. Flux, please, please enlighten us on all of this. I REALLY appreciate all of your advice and help.Thanks everyone!Darlene


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Thanks to everybody for trying to help me figure this out. Maybe we can all find an answer to this awful problem. It gets really depressing to be gassy and uncomfortable day and night.







Jo-jo, I don't take any meds anymore. I finally weaned off of librax. It wasn't helping with the gas problem at all. In fact, it seemed to be making it much worse. Is that possible, flux? It actually seemed to trap the gas more than ever! Right now, I am taking Gas-X with little results. I am trying to eliminate all breads and it's almost impossible. I ate a small amount of oatmeal this morning and almost died with the gas. That really makes me wonder if this is a gluten sensitivity. Like I mentioned in earlier posts, I was tested for celiac and it was negative. I read somewhere that it is possible to be "sensitive" to gluten products, but not allergic. I do understand what flux is talking about with the atmosphere vs. bacterial fermentation thing. However, it would be interesting to get the step by step information on how to figure out this whole gas thing and what happens after the rice/water/ensure diet. Flux, please, please enlighten us on all of this. I REALLY appreciate all of your advice and help.Thanks everyone!Darlene


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## jo-jo (Aug 19, 2001)

Maybe try eating like you had celiac for a few weeks and see how that goes. Elaine Gotchall has a book called the vicious cycle, maybe that would help. I hope you find the source of this problem.


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## jo-jo (Aug 19, 2001)

Maybe try eating like you had celiac for a few weeks and see how that goes. Elaine Gotchall has a book called the vicious cycle, maybe that would help. I hope you find the source of this problem.


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Bumping for flux.







Darlene, I think if you are going to find the source of your problem you will have to do it systematically as flux outlined. Or else you will always wonder if you missed something along the way. However I do empathize with you because I have not been able to do the fast for three days myself. If at the height of my problem someone had mentioned this scientific way of doing things, I most certainly would have done that. I might still do it. I pass gas mainly after meals now but it could still be atmosphere related. I would like to rule it out. Flux we are at the bacteria morphing stage. PLeeease continue. Jeff should have a "begging" graemlin.


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Bumping for flux.







Darlene, I think if you are going to find the source of your problem you will have to do it systematically as flux outlined. Or else you will always wonder if you missed something along the way. However I do empathize with you because I have not been able to do the fast for three days myself. If at the height of my problem someone had mentioned this scientific way of doing things, I most certainly would have done that. I might still do it. I pass gas mainly after meals now but it could still be atmosphere related. I would like to rule it out. Flux we are at the bacteria morphing stage. PLeeease continue. Jeff should have a "begging" graemlin.


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## admflo (Dec 1, 2001)

What Flux is talking about, (the aerophagic thing)is called swallowing air(shallow hyperventilation)it causes an overdistention of the stomach and bloating. The air then forms gas bubbles and causes cramping and sometimes flatulence. It is caused from stress. The other thing he is talking about, with the rice and other foods being slowly introduced back into the diet after a fast or semi-fast is called an elimination diet.


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## admflo (Dec 1, 2001)

What Flux is talking about, (the aerophagic thing)is called swallowing air(shallow hyperventilation)it causes an overdistention of the stomach and bloating. The air then forms gas bubbles and causes cramping and sometimes flatulence. It is caused from stress. The other thing he is talking about, with the rice and other foods being slowly introduced back into the diet after a fast or semi-fast is called an elimination diet.


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## admflo (Dec 1, 2001)

Bonniei: I gather from your post and some of the others that you guys, most of you anyway, were unfamiliar with what he was talking about. The thing that I would be curious about would be why your MD's had not already explained some of this to you or certainly done an elimination diet. Education is key for this kind of illness and if I had an MD on an ongoing basis who had not, at this point, explained some of this or tryed this, I would either think I was asking the wrong questions or had the wrong MD.


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## admflo (Dec 1, 2001)

Bonniei: I gather from your post and some of the others that you guys, most of you anyway, were unfamiliar with what he was talking about. The thing that I would be curious about would be why your MD's had not already explained some of this to you or certainly done an elimination diet. Education is key for this kind of illness and if I had an MD on an ongoing basis who had not, at this point, explained some of this or tryed this, I would either think I was asking the wrong questions or had the wrong MD.


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## admflo (Dec 1, 2001)

Bonniei: BTW: I'm not dissing anyone for their choices or lack of understanding, God knows we all need help! I'm just saying that since I've been on this board and from reading some of the posts, there are some very sick people here and I am really concerned sometimes over the lack of medical attention some people are getting. I read one post concerning an abd. resection that sounded like it was one year late. The poster stated SHE HAD BEEN BEDRIDDEN FOR A YEAR! As someone in the medical field, I find it unexcusable that an MD would let a patient stay in that condition for that length of time before recommending John Hopkins or Duke for a resection.Yes, I know these things can be influenced by the patient's themselves and certain other factors, but resections are done quite frequently and have a rapid recovery time, so why an MD would let a patient ferment is beyond me. I am just concerned.


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## admflo (Dec 1, 2001)

Bonniei: BTW: I'm not dissing anyone for their choices or lack of understanding, God knows we all need help! I'm just saying that since I've been on this board and from reading some of the posts, there are some very sick people here and I am really concerned sometimes over the lack of medical attention some people are getting. I read one post concerning an abd. resection that sounded like it was one year late. The poster stated SHE HAD BEEN BEDRIDDEN FOR A YEAR! As someone in the medical field, I find it unexcusable that an MD would let a patient stay in that condition for that length of time before recommending John Hopkins or Duke for a resection.Yes, I know these things can be influenced by the patient's themselves and certain other factors, but resections are done quite frequently and have a rapid recovery time, so why an MD would let a patient ferment is beyond me. I am just concerned.


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Sure wish you could talk to my docs admflo. I agree with you wholeheartedly there about the docs not doing their job. After running some tests on me my doc just said eat fiber and let me go. That is why I am so grateful for someone like flux on the board. Since I have "met" him I have heard about numerous tests and got my doc to do them. Many people give flux a lot of flak but he always provides us with a lot of good info. admflo, is your concern with me asking him for info? I guess I am not sure if you have a problem with me. Sure hope not.


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Sure wish you could talk to my docs admflo. I agree with you wholeheartedly there about the docs not doing their job. After running some tests on me my doc just said eat fiber and let me go. That is why I am so grateful for someone like flux on the board. Since I have "met" him I have heard about numerous tests and got my doc to do them. Many people give flux a lot of flak but he always provides us with a lot of good info. admflo, is your concern with me asking him for info? I guess I am not sure if you have a problem with me. Sure hope not.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote: For example, if after fasting one's gas is reduced, what happens after eating rice and ensure? Then what happens after your handy malabsorption tests? If it is atmospheric, what does one do then?


First, in deciding how to approach excess gas, assuming it is present, a question that should be addressed is what is the reason for wanting to treat it. Gas in itself is not a medical problem. That is, by itself, gas does not cause pain and does not get spontaneously trapped. Its excess may be biologically abnormal, but it's only a clinical problem if it has a detrimental effect, namely, that it makes worses pre-existing belly pain or that it is really trapped by a motility disorder. This being the case because none of the treatment options are particularly great.If the gas is due bacterial fermentation, the logic would be to determine if it's because that is abnormal or because there is malabsorption. Hence the malabsorption tests. If malabsorption the sugars is the problem, for fructose malabasorption one must abstain from fructose-containing foods, which would probably include fruits and soft drinks. For the other carbohydrates, such as sucrose and starches, enzyme supplementation of invertase and pancreatic supplements might be of help. Certainly, one should abstain from foods that contain undigestable sugars such as onions and beans. Also, wheat starch is known not to digest well because the protein components physically interfere with its enzymatic breakdown and that should probably be avoided. One might try a diet of little or no carbohydrates although such a diet would be very high in fat and would not be healthy for that reason.(There is a real detailed diet plan, which is called the "normoflatogenic" diet, but I misplaced my copy and don't have it memorized







. I know bonniei will remind me to post it







)If the problem is due to a bacterial "problem", then the options include in addition to the above, attempting to alter the bacteria. Culturelle seems to be the only bacteria capabale of doing this although whether it can change gas-producing flora is unknown. One may also try flushing out the bacteria by consuming heavy doses of Miralax. On the more extreme end of solutions are 1) fecal flora transplant, performed only in St. Louis and in Australia.







2) being fed by stomach tube (these "foods" can't be consumed because they taste like burning flesh, but are absorbed even better than Ensure and rice). If Ensure works, this will probably work better although one must give up eating.3) flushing out the bacteria via stomach tube, presumably this would more effective than dosing up on Miralax.4) Antibiotics, I actually think the other options are better than this one. Antibiotics can increase gas and even cause a serious infection, and there may be no going back.Gas from the atmosphere most likely cannot be stopped (I am assuming it's not due to the swallowing habit described by admflo) as there is no way to seal off the gut from the outside. So all that could be done perhaps is to place a vent in one's stomach, which can periodically be opened to expel the air. This has been done for people who have trapped gas due to pseudo-obstruction.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote: For example, if after fasting one's gas is reduced, what happens after eating rice and ensure? Then what happens after your handy malabsorption tests? If it is atmospheric, what does one do then?


First, in deciding how to approach excess gas, assuming it is present, a question that should be addressed is what is the reason for wanting to treat it. Gas in itself is not a medical problem. That is, by itself, gas does not cause pain and does not get spontaneously trapped. Its excess may be biologically abnormal, but it's only a clinical problem if it has a detrimental effect, namely, that it makes worses pre-existing belly pain or that it is really trapped by a motility disorder. This being the case because none of the treatment options are particularly great.If the gas is due bacterial fermentation, the logic would be to determine if it's because that is abnormal or because there is malabsorption. Hence the malabsorption tests. If malabsorption the sugars is the problem, for fructose malabasorption one must abstain from fructose-containing foods, which would probably include fruits and soft drinks. For the other carbohydrates, such as sucrose and starches, enzyme supplementation of invertase and pancreatic supplements might be of help. Certainly, one should abstain from foods that contain undigestable sugars such as onions and beans. Also, wheat starch is known not to digest well because the protein components physically interfere with its enzymatic breakdown and that should probably be avoided. One might try a diet of little or no carbohydrates although such a diet would be very high in fat and would not be healthy for that reason.(There is a real detailed diet plan, which is called the "normoflatogenic" diet, but I misplaced my copy and don't have it memorized







. I know bonniei will remind me to post it







)If the problem is due to a bacterial "problem", then the options include in addition to the above, attempting to alter the bacteria. Culturelle seems to be the only bacteria capabale of doing this although whether it can change gas-producing flora is unknown. One may also try flushing out the bacteria by consuming heavy doses of Miralax. On the more extreme end of solutions are 1) fecal flora transplant, performed only in St. Louis and in Australia.







2) being fed by stomach tube (these "foods" can't be consumed because they taste like burning flesh, but are absorbed even better than Ensure and rice). If Ensure works, this will probably work better although one must give up eating.3) flushing out the bacteria via stomach tube, presumably this would more effective than dosing up on Miralax.4) Antibiotics, I actually think the other options are better than this one. Antibiotics can increase gas and even cause a serious infection, and there may be no going back.Gas from the atmosphere most likely cannot be stopped (I am assuming it's not due to the swallowing habit described by admflo) as there is no way to seal off the gut from the outside. So all that could be done perhaps is to place a vent in one's stomach, which can periodically be opened to expel the air. This has been done for people who have trapped gas due to pseudo-obstruction.


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Thanks a lot, flux.







Come on folks you have to admit flux is generous. It is a lot of info to absorb, flux. Will take some time to do that. "Normoflatogenic diet eh ?"she says raising an eyebrow repeatedly


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Thanks a lot, flux.







Come on folks you have to admit flux is generous. It is a lot of info to absorb, flux. Will take some time to do that. "Normoflatogenic diet eh ?"she says raising an eyebrow repeatedly


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## admflo (Dec 1, 2001)

Bonniei: I most definitely have no problem with you! Please don't think that! I just get very upset when I see so many people in this condition(which I've already posted)! I just hope that some of you can glean enough facts here to be able to spot those physcians who either are unwilling to go the extra mile or just "don't care" and will drop them. The thing I think is important is to shop around until one is found that will be proactive for their patient. As I said earlier, I think education is very important here and unfortunately the public picks one MD and will stick with them sometimes to their own detriment. Hopefully, some of these posts will encourage them to be more assertive with their physicians.


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## admflo (Dec 1, 2001)

Bonniei: I most definitely have no problem with you! Please don't think that! I just get very upset when I see so many people in this condition(which I've already posted)! I just hope that some of you can glean enough facts here to be able to spot those physcians who either are unwilling to go the extra mile or just "don't care" and will drop them. The thing I think is important is to shop around until one is found that will be proactive for their patient. As I said earlier, I think education is very important here and unfortunately the public picks one MD and will stick with them sometimes to their own detriment. Hopefully, some of these posts will encourage them to be more assertive with their physicians.


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

I agree with you admflo- hopefully the BB will make us more assertive. What did we do before the internet?!


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

I agree with you admflo- hopefully the BB will make us more assertive. What did we do before the internet?!


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## *Luna* (Nov 19, 2001)

Darlene, oatmeal has a lot of fiber in it, and a sudden increase in the amount of fiber in your diet can cause gas and bloating. Perhaps your system is more sensitive than some. There are so many things in a normal diet that do contain gluten... I would be VERY careful that you are still getting a balanced diet if you try to cut out gluten. I would never do it without consulting a dietician, but I am a vegetarian, which is already restricting my diet. I have a healthy diet now, but cutting refined sugar or gluten would be very difficult. I just don't want you to get your system in a world of hurt far worse than it is now.Uterine adhesions, endometriosis, and other "female" problems can cause some GI symptoms. I'm most familiar with what endo can do, but you might want to discuss the adhesions with your dr. I don't know that they could contribute to the gas itself, but certainly they could cause abdominal discomfort, and perhaps pain/discomfort that you are attributing to gas is due to the adhesions.


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## *Luna* (Nov 19, 2001)

Darlene, oatmeal has a lot of fiber in it, and a sudden increase in the amount of fiber in your diet can cause gas and bloating. Perhaps your system is more sensitive than some. There are so many things in a normal diet that do contain gluten... I would be VERY careful that you are still getting a balanced diet if you try to cut out gluten. I would never do it without consulting a dietician, but I am a vegetarian, which is already restricting my diet. I have a healthy diet now, but cutting refined sugar or gluten would be very difficult. I just don't want you to get your system in a world of hurt far worse than it is now.Uterine adhesions, endometriosis, and other "female" problems can cause some GI symptoms. I'm most familiar with what endo can do, but you might want to discuss the adhesions with your dr. I don't know that they could contribute to the gas itself, but certainly they could cause abdominal discomfort, and perhaps pain/discomfort that you are attributing to gas is due to the adhesions.


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

From all of the potential sources you outlined , flux, malabsorption sounds like the one which is easiest to deal with-worst case:remove the offending carbohydrate. Bacterial abnormality or "morphosis"(?)requires - fecal flora transplant







, or feeding via tubes which sounds terribly inconvenient , or antibiotics which are antibiotics. You really prefer the other three options to antibiotics, flux? I don't know







.As far as aerophagia goes, admflo - what makes you think it is air swallowing? The paper on the excessively flatulent patient who has aerophagia said the patient wasn't observed swallowing air. Is that the commonly held belief among doctors? Is aerophagia common? FWIW I tried to swallow air and I burped. Then I swallowed air but this time didn't let the burp escape by causing a downward peristalisis in my throat i.e I relaxed the muscles around where the burp was about to start off and let that relaxation flow downward and ended up not burping but I felt gas building up in my intestine and then a need to pass gas arose. Let me tell you this entire operation caused a lot of discomfort, almost pain, which stayed with me for several hours. So try it at your own risk


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

From all of the potential sources you outlined , flux, malabsorption sounds like the one which is easiest to deal with-worst case:remove the offending carbohydrate. Bacterial abnormality or "morphosis"(?)requires - fecal flora transplant







, or feeding via tubes which sounds terribly inconvenient , or antibiotics which are antibiotics. You really prefer the other three options to antibiotics, flux? I don't know







.As far as aerophagia goes, admflo - what makes you think it is air swallowing? The paper on the excessively flatulent patient who has aerophagia said the patient wasn't observed swallowing air. Is that the commonly held belief among doctors? Is aerophagia common? FWIW I tried to swallow air and I burped. Then I swallowed air but this time didn't let the burp escape by causing a downward peristalisis in my throat i.e I relaxed the muscles around where the burp was about to start off and let that relaxation flow downward and ended up not burping but I felt gas building up in my intestine and then a need to pass gas arose. Let me tell you this entire operation caused a lot of discomfort, almost pain, which stayed with me for several hours. So try it at your own risk


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## admflo (Dec 1, 2001)

Aerophagia is very, very, common and has been known medically for centuries as a condition that goes hand in hand with hyperventilation. Some people shallow hyperventilate. Paramedics carry brown paper bags on Rescue units if they are called to the scene of someone who is hyperventilating, or thinks they are having a heart attack but are really hyperventilating, etc.Horses do this also and distend their abdomens.


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## admflo (Dec 1, 2001)

Aerophagia is very, very, common and has been known medically for centuries as a condition that goes hand in hand with hyperventilation. Some people shallow hyperventilate. Paramedics carry brown paper bags on Rescue units if they are called to the scene of someone who is hyperventilating, or thinks they are having a heart attack but are really hyperventilating, etc.Horses do this also and distend their abdomens.


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## Pete (Jan 20, 2000)

I have cured my problem(I hope for good) of excessive gas. I was farting over 100 times a day. Now I am probably down to 15 or 20 which I still think is a lot but all the research says it is normal. I did it the following way.ANTIBIOTICSTry neomycin, flagyl, cipro, doxycycline or biaxinThese will probably give you the best results. The antibiotics( i think I did four courses) got rid of the gas. VSL#3 is a probiotic that I take daily. This has kept it from coming back for five months now. Everyone on the board is so scared of antibiotics which I don't understand. People take them all the time when they get the sniffles. They don't even need them but take them anyway just in case. I think anyone with this problem should give it a try. The only major risk that I know of is a C. diff infection which is treatable. I also believe that vsl#3 will protect you from such an infection but that is not fact.As far as aerophagia goes, I think the best treatment options are1. antihistamines if you have post nasal drip. The drip could cause you to swallow air2. If it is a nervous habit, then try xanax or ativan3. relaxed breathing techniques4. Prokinetic drug in case it is stemming from gastroparesis.Darlene,I know I told you this already but I posted it again because I see many are reading this.Pete


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## Pete (Jan 20, 2000)

I have cured my problem(I hope for good) of excessive gas. I was farting over 100 times a day. Now I am probably down to 15 or 20 which I still think is a lot but all the research says it is normal. I did it the following way.ANTIBIOTICSTry neomycin, flagyl, cipro, doxycycline or biaxinThese will probably give you the best results. The antibiotics( i think I did four courses) got rid of the gas. VSL#3 is a probiotic that I take daily. This has kept it from coming back for five months now. Everyone on the board is so scared of antibiotics which I don't understand. People take them all the time when they get the sniffles. They don't even need them but take them anyway just in case. I think anyone with this problem should give it a try. The only major risk that I know of is a C. diff infection which is treatable. I also believe that vsl#3 will protect you from such an infection but that is not fact.As far as aerophagia goes, I think the best treatment options are1. antihistamines if you have post nasal drip. The drip could cause you to swallow air2. If it is a nervous habit, then try xanax or ativan3. relaxed breathing techniques4. Prokinetic drug in case it is stemming from gastroparesis.Darlene,I know I told you this already but I posted it again because I see many are reading this.Pete


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

I looked up the definition of aerophagia on dictionary.msn.com and it says "gulping in air: the spasmodic swallowing of air, a *common* cause of flatulence and belching" So I see part of this confusion comes from the definition of these terms. I guess on this thread flux was kind of referring to aerophagia on this thread as "gas due to atmosphere-cause unknown". I find it interesting that the dictionary says it is a common cause of flatulence. So I guess swallowing of air ( let's not use these confusing big words) is common according to admflo and it leading to flatulence is also common if the dictionary is to be believed. Maybe just excessive flatulence due to air swallowing is uncommon if you go by the paper by Levitt.I have been thinking some more about the antibiotics vs other options and I was thinking if I was really desperate, if fecal flora transplant was a one time solution which involved no risks, I would be willing to do it under sedation . Just imagine getting good flora into yourself in a matter of hours. It sounds gross but if you have been as desperate as I have, you would know where I was coming from


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

I looked up the definition of aerophagia on dictionary.msn.com and it says "gulping in air: the spasmodic swallowing of air, a *common* cause of flatulence and belching" So I see part of this confusion comes from the definition of these terms. I guess on this thread flux was kind of referring to aerophagia on this thread as "gas due to atmosphere-cause unknown". I find it interesting that the dictionary says it is a common cause of flatulence. So I guess swallowing of air ( let's not use these confusing big words) is common according to admflo and it leading to flatulence is also common if the dictionary is to be believed. Maybe just excessive flatulence due to air swallowing is uncommon if you go by the paper by Levitt.I have been thinking some more about the antibiotics vs other options and I was thinking if I was really desperate, if fecal flora transplant was a one time solution which involved no risks, I would be willing to do it under sedation . Just imagine getting good flora into yourself in a matter of hours. It sounds gross but if you have been as desperate as I have, you would know where I was coming from


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

Darlene for asking the initial question and Flux, Bonnie & company, for answering...._THANK YOU_ very much! I learned something.And I love it when that happens.







BQ


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

Darlene for asking the initial question and Flux, Bonnie & company, for answering...._THANK YOU_ very much! I learned something.And I love it when that happens.







BQ


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:"morphosis"(?)requires - fecal flora transplant , or feeding via tubes which sounds terribly inconvenient , or antibiotics which are antibiotics. You really prefer the other three options to antibiotics, flux? I don't know .


I think Pete you got lucky.


> quote:. The only major risk that I know of is a C. diff infection which is treatable


Sometimes, that treatment requires having one's colon removed. And did I mention that antibiotics can *increase* gas by killing the bacteria that eat gas.


> quote:Aerophagia is very, very, common and has been known medically for centuries


The confusion is that the term aerophagia, which is ordinarily used to describe a swallowing habit, is the same one used to describe...


> quote:Maybe just excessive flatulence due to air swallowing is uncommon if you go by the paper by Levitt.


weird condition described in his paper. The paper tells appears to tell us that it is conceivable for a person to "swallow" lots of air without swallowing or swallowing excessively. That is the atmoshpheric gas I'm referring to.


> quote:I would be willing to do it under sedation


They do, in fact, do under sedation, but did I tell you the bacteria are introduced through the mouth?


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:"morphosis"(?)requires - fecal flora transplant , or feeding via tubes which sounds terribly inconvenient , or antibiotics which are antibiotics. You really prefer the other three options to antibiotics, flux? I don't know .


I think Pete you got lucky.


> quote:. The only major risk that I know of is a C. diff infection which is treatable


Sometimes, that treatment requires having one's colon removed. And did I mention that antibiotics can *increase* gas by killing the bacteria that eat gas.


> quote:Aerophagia is very, very, common and has been known medically for centuries


The confusion is that the term aerophagia, which is ordinarily used to describe a swallowing habit, is the same one used to describe...


> quote:Maybe just excessive flatulence due to air swallowing is uncommon if you go by the paper by Levitt.


weird condition described in his paper. The paper tells appears to tell us that it is conceivable for a person to "swallow" lots of air without swallowing or swallowing excessively. That is the atmoshpheric gas I'm referring to.


> quote:I would be willing to do it under sedation


They do, in fact, do under sedation, but did I tell you the bacteria are introduced through the mouth?


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## kyestar (Nov 26, 2001)

Hi Darlene,I hope you are feeling better. I noticed that you said you thought you may be sensitive to gluten without being allergic. This si quite common I believe, and reasonably easy to discover: the elimination diet!! Basically, eliminate all sources of gluten and wheat (you may need to prepare for this when you go food shopping!!) for about 2 weeks, then reintroduce them and moniter your reaction. Keep a food diary - write down what you eat, and what your symptoms are. I know it is a lot of work, but it will be worth it if it eliminates or reduces your problems. And, once you get started on the elimination diet, if your symptoms reduce, you may find it (like me) hard to test things for fear of getting worse!! Good luck!!


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## kyestar (Nov 26, 2001)

Hi Darlene,I hope you are feeling better. I noticed that you said you thought you may be sensitive to gluten without being allergic. This si quite common I believe, and reasonably easy to discover: the elimination diet!! Basically, eliminate all sources of gluten and wheat (you may need to prepare for this when you go food shopping!!) for about 2 weeks, then reintroduce them and moniter your reaction. Keep a food diary - write down what you eat, and what your symptoms are. I know it is a lot of work, but it will be worth it if it eliminates or reduces your problems. And, once you get started on the elimination diet, if your symptoms reduce, you may find it (like me) hard to test things for fear of getting worse!! Good luck!!


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

BQ YW!


> quote:They do, in fact, do under sedation, but did I tell you the bacteria are introduced through the mouth?


EEEEEEEEEEEk! I didn't think you could gross me out further, flux.





















And as for that excessively flatulent guy in the paper, aerophagia or not, he has me







,As does darlene's plight







. Darlene, sorry, don't know anything about gluten sensitivity as opposed to allergy. I hope you find the source of your gas. I know elimination diets are hard work, and sound impossible to carry out sometimes.But maybe a dietician will be able to give you more choices in replacing the eliminated items.


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

BQ YW!


> quote:They do, in fact, do under sedation, but did I tell you the bacteria are introduced through the mouth?


EEEEEEEEEEEk! I didn't think you could gross me out further, flux.





















And as for that excessively flatulent guy in the paper, aerophagia or not, he has me







,As does darlene's plight







. Darlene, sorry, don't know anything about gluten sensitivity as opposed to allergy. I hope you find the source of your gas. I know elimination diets are hard work, and sound impossible to carry out sometimes.But maybe a dietician will be able to give you more choices in replacing the eliminated items.


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## admflo (Dec 1, 2001)

Antibiotics can, in certain individuals, make GI problems worse, but not always. I am on anti-biotics right now and am doing great. I am taking Keflex for a respiratory problem and any time I've ever taken antibiotics they have helped my IBS, not hurt. The only med that bothers me is Erythromycin, but it does that to a lot of people.The transplant listed by Flux is funny. There are many papers and surgeries performed for various things but they may not meet the criteria for theAMA to approve. Also, when reading articles by a "doctor", always check to make sure what kind of doctor is writing it. I have seen many MD's and pHd 'docs' prosecuted for fraud and other illegal behavior for desperate patients. Antibiotic overuse causes c-diff. usually the people who end who should avoid them are forwarned by their MD(hopefully) but Crohn's and those types, any D type should definitely be careful.


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## admflo (Dec 1, 2001)

Antibiotics can, in certain individuals, make GI problems worse, but not always. I am on anti-biotics right now and am doing great. I am taking Keflex for a respiratory problem and any time I've ever taken antibiotics they have helped my IBS, not hurt. The only med that bothers me is Erythromycin, but it does that to a lot of people.The transplant listed by Flux is funny. There are many papers and surgeries performed for various things but they may not meet the criteria for theAMA to approve. Also, when reading articles by a "doctor", always check to make sure what kind of doctor is writing it. I have seen many MD's and pHd 'docs' prosecuted for fraud and other illegal behavior for desperate patients. Antibiotic overuse causes c-diff. usually the people who end who should avoid them are forwarned by their MD(hopefully) but Crohn's and those types, any D type should definitely be careful.


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Happy New Year everyone! I can't tell you how appreciative I am of everyone who has contributed to this subject. I sincerely hope that all of us can benefit from the support and information that we have gathered here.Yes, I do agree with bonniei that flux has been very generous with his information. Thank you Flux!! Everybody's ideas are very good ones. Most of flux's treatment plans are very extreme, but hey, we are desperate here for relief! I am checking with my doctor ASAP before I begin any drastic elimination diet. The rice/water/ensure would certainly get to the bottom of this and determine whether it is indeed bacterial fermentation vs. aerophagia. I'm almost wondering if some of us have multiple contributing factors that are causing this. Just one example: maybe the anxiety of having the gas is causing even more gas and perhaps we have food allergies on top of IBS.I have a thought on the antiboitic issue. From my personal experience, I almost always get relief from the intestinal gas when taking antibiotics. The first doctor who told me that I have IBS was a doctor for over 50 years. He was recently awarded as being the best diagnostic doctor in the area. This is how he described the problem with the gas. He said that IBS is a functional/motility disorder. The timing is off in the gut. The food is not in the right place at the right time to break down properly, so it doesn't digest properly like it would in people with normal digestive systems. Since the food doesn't digest properly, it ferments in the colon causing large amounts of gas. He suggested years ago to take Gas-X with every meal to help move along the gas. I am now wondering if we have an imbalance of bacteria due to all this fermenting in the colon and that's why antibiotics help for a while. They kill all the bacteria providing temporary relief, but then the bacteria slowly grows back after taking antibiotics. I hope that I explained this correctly. I have spent over 10 years looking for a cure for the gas, and I am now wondering if maybe there isn't a real solution. Does anybody have any thoughts on this??Thanks again everyone!!Darlene


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Happy New Year everyone! I can't tell you how appreciative I am of everyone who has contributed to this subject. I sincerely hope that all of us can benefit from the support and information that we have gathered here.Yes, I do agree with bonniei that flux has been very generous with his information. Thank you Flux!! Everybody's ideas are very good ones. Most of flux's treatment plans are very extreme, but hey, we are desperate here for relief! I am checking with my doctor ASAP before I begin any drastic elimination diet. The rice/water/ensure would certainly get to the bottom of this and determine whether it is indeed bacterial fermentation vs. aerophagia. I'm almost wondering if some of us have multiple contributing factors that are causing this. Just one example: maybe the anxiety of having the gas is causing even more gas and perhaps we have food allergies on top of IBS.I have a thought on the antiboitic issue. From my personal experience, I almost always get relief from the intestinal gas when taking antibiotics. The first doctor who told me that I have IBS was a doctor for over 50 years. He was recently awarded as being the best diagnostic doctor in the area. This is how he described the problem with the gas. He said that IBS is a functional/motility disorder. The timing is off in the gut. The food is not in the right place at the right time to break down properly, so it doesn't digest properly like it would in people with normal digestive systems. Since the food doesn't digest properly, it ferments in the colon causing large amounts of gas. He suggested years ago to take Gas-X with every meal to help move along the gas. I am now wondering if we have an imbalance of bacteria due to all this fermenting in the colon and that's why antibiotics help for a while. They kill all the bacteria providing temporary relief, but then the bacteria slowly grows back after taking antibiotics. I hope that I explained this correctly. I have spent over 10 years looking for a cure for the gas, and I am now wondering if maybe there isn't a real solution. Does anybody have any thoughts on this??Thanks again everyone!!Darlene


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## admflo (Dec 1, 2001)

Now that you mention it Darlene, (as far as the aerophagia thing goes), I was doing great on the ginger root and then about a week ago, I was really hyper about something and ate lunch. I ate really fast, did not chew my food good and probably swallowed a bunch of air too. I got terrible indigestion and gas but knew right away it was because I ate too fast. When I read your post I remembered that when I was young my mother used to tell me to slow down when I ate all the time because I 'inhaled' my food as she used to say. I think she was right! Thanks for the memory jog!


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## admflo (Dec 1, 2001)

Now that you mention it Darlene, (as far as the aerophagia thing goes), I was doing great on the ginger root and then about a week ago, I was really hyper about something and ate lunch. I ate really fast, did not chew my food good and probably swallowed a bunch of air too. I got terrible indigestion and gas but knew right away it was because I ate too fast. When I read your post I remembered that when I was young my mother used to tell me to slow down when I ate all the time because I 'inhaled' my food as she used to say. I think she was right! Thanks for the memory jog!


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote: He said that IBS is a functional/motility disorder. The timing is off in the gut. The food is not in the right place at the right time to break down properly, so it doesn't digest properly like it would in people with normal digestive systems.


No, *digestion and absorption are generally considered to be normal in IBS.* We know this is true because it would affect all nutrients similarly and would lead to the consequences of malabsorption (e.g, steatorrhea, progressive weight loss, anemia), which by definition is never present in IBS. However, normal people themselves don't entirely digest carbohydrates completely. As much as *40 g of carbohydrates* can get put in the colon daily! It could be that in some IBS subjects, they don't handle this 40 g load well. It may also be in some IBS subjects that gas normally produced from this load is not moved efficiently leading the complaint of "trapped gas". It may also be, but apparently in only a very few IBS patients, who have really been misdiagnosed, that there really is something screwy with the motility and they have bacterial overgrowth or "messed up" gut bacteria.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote: He said that IBS is a functional/motility disorder. The timing is off in the gut. The food is not in the right place at the right time to break down properly, so it doesn't digest properly like it would in people with normal digestive systems.


No, *digestion and absorption are generally considered to be normal in IBS.* We know this is true because it would affect all nutrients similarly and would lead to the consequences of malabsorption (e.g, steatorrhea, progressive weight loss, anemia), which by definition is never present in IBS. However, normal people themselves don't entirely digest carbohydrates completely. As much as *40 g of carbohydrates* can get put in the colon daily! It could be that in some IBS subjects, they don't handle this 40 g load well. It may also be in some IBS subjects that gas normally produced from this load is not moved efficiently leading the complaint of "trapped gas". It may also be, but apparently in only a very few IBS patients, who have really been misdiagnosed, that there really is something screwy with the motility and they have bacterial overgrowth or "messed up" gut bacteria.


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

<This is me crossing off a fecal flora transplant as an option if I ever have this uncontrollable G problem.>Ok Darlene, I haven't ever heard our digestion described quite the way your Doc described it.Anti-biotics: Hmmm my experience with these is odd and has changed over the years. When I was first diagnosed with IBS (during the Reagan administration







), antibiotics almost always caused a horrendous D flare. One that would continue for weeks after I finished the antibiotic. My Doc and I went through a number of antibiotics, when I needed one that is for an upper respiratory infection etc., trying to find one that wouldn't wreck havoc in my gut. Eventually we discovered Cefzil was a "safe" antibiotic. My gut would behave on this one for whatever reason. However the last time I had to take it for a sinus infection.....GAS like I've never experienced occurred. I was able to get the excessive gas to stop after a few days on a probiotic. I find this weird. I know our 'fecal flora' can change, but this was a markedly different reaction to the same antibiotic that had previously caused no GI problems. I am a little concerned that my 'safe' antibiotic choices are dwindling down to....none. However I am hopeful that probiotics will help me avoid a serious gas problem in the future if I ever have to use an antibiotic again, which is highly likely being that I live here on earth & happen to co-habitate with school (petri dish) aged children. I know there are two different types of antibiotics; from what I've been told by my Doc, and as I understand it, one that works on "fast growing bacteria" and one that works on "slower growing bacteria". I have had a bout of C-Diff, and that was when this was explained to me. It is confusing though.I am hoping your problem stems from bacteria rather than from the atmosphere. Looks like it would be way easier to treat. I'm staying tuned in here to learn more.So Darlene, let us know what your Doc says about the fast/elimination diet thing and what he thinks could help you get rid of this awful symptom. Wishing you all the best.And thanks again.BQ


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

<This is me crossing off a fecal flora transplant as an option if I ever have this uncontrollable G problem.>Ok Darlene, I haven't ever heard our digestion described quite the way your Doc described it.Anti-biotics: Hmmm my experience with these is odd and has changed over the years. When I was first diagnosed with IBS (during the Reagan administration







), antibiotics almost always caused a horrendous D flare. One that would continue for weeks after I finished the antibiotic. My Doc and I went through a number of antibiotics, when I needed one that is for an upper respiratory infection etc., trying to find one that wouldn't wreck havoc in my gut. Eventually we discovered Cefzil was a "safe" antibiotic. My gut would behave on this one for whatever reason. However the last time I had to take it for a sinus infection.....GAS like I've never experienced occurred. I was able to get the excessive gas to stop after a few days on a probiotic. I find this weird. I know our 'fecal flora' can change, but this was a markedly different reaction to the same antibiotic that had previously caused no GI problems. I am a little concerned that my 'safe' antibiotic choices are dwindling down to....none. However I am hopeful that probiotics will help me avoid a serious gas problem in the future if I ever have to use an antibiotic again, which is highly likely being that I live here on earth & happen to co-habitate with school (petri dish) aged children. I know there are two different types of antibiotics; from what I've been told by my Doc, and as I understand it, one that works on "fast growing bacteria" and one that works on "slower growing bacteria". I have had a bout of C-Diff, and that was when this was explained to me. It is confusing though.I am hoping your problem stems from bacteria rather than from the atmosphere. Looks like it would be way easier to treat. I'm staying tuned in here to learn more.So Darlene, let us know what your Doc says about the fast/elimination diet thing and what he thinks could help you get rid of this awful symptom. Wishing you all the best.And thanks again.BQ


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

> quote:I am now wondering if we have an imbalance of bacteria due to all this fermenting in the colon and that's why antibiotics help for a while.


I am not sure if it isn't the other way around-we have fermenting in the colon due to an imbalance of bacteria of the gas producing bacteria vs the gas consuming bacteriaI too take antibiotics quite frequently but after hearing stories like BQ's I have to say "there but for the grace of God go I" . Maybe we are tempting fate(c-diff and resistance) too much so that when we really need antibiotics we won't be able to find a suitble one. For that reason I wouldn't rule fecal flora transplant out. It is a one time thing and I just thought of this- I assume you don't have to taste anything, it can be done through some tubes or something? Or wait a minute- do I really want to hear the answer?!.


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

> quote:I am now wondering if we have an imbalance of bacteria due to all this fermenting in the colon and that's why antibiotics help for a while.


I am not sure if it isn't the other way around-we have fermenting in the colon due to an imbalance of bacteria of the gas producing bacteria vs the gas consuming bacteriaI too take antibiotics quite frequently but after hearing stories like BQ's I have to say "there but for the grace of God go I" . Maybe we are tempting fate(c-diff and resistance) too much so that when we really need antibiotics we won't be able to find a suitble one. For that reason I wouldn't rule fecal flora transplant out. It is a one time thing and I just thought of this- I assume you don't have to taste anything, it can be done through some tubes or something? Or wait a minute- do I really want to hear the answer?!.


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

I just want to warn people about taking anti-biotics for IBS, unless you have been diagnosed with BO or a real reason to take them, you do not want to take anti-biotics to kill fermenting foods in the colon, it doesn't work that way and antibiotics can actually harm you, in the short run and long term.This is playing with fire in IBS.


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

I just want to warn people about taking anti-biotics for IBS, unless you have been diagnosed with BO or a real reason to take them, you do not want to take anti-biotics to kill fermenting foods in the colon, it doesn't work that way and antibiotics can actually harm you, in the short run and long term.This is playing with fire in IBS.


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

Not that it needs it, but I would second what Eric has said.







BQ


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

Not that it needs it, but I would second what Eric has said.







BQ


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## moldie (Sep 25, 1999)

I will third it.


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## moldie (Sep 25, 1999)

I will third it.


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## admflo (Dec 1, 2001)

What does BO stand for?


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## admflo (Dec 1, 2001)

What does BO stand for?


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## *Luna* (Nov 19, 2001)

BO=Bacterial Overgrowth (on here at least







)My GI doc was very cautious about this, afraid that it could kill the good bacteria too and leave my gut more messed up than it is now. Now that I think about it, I was on antibiotics many time for sinus infections over the time that my (at the time undiagnosed) IBS-D was getting gradually worse. Is there a link? Who knows.


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## *Luna* (Nov 19, 2001)

BO=Bacterial Overgrowth (on here at least







)My GI doc was very cautious about this, afraid that it could kill the good bacteria too and leave my gut more messed up than it is now. Now that I think about it, I was on antibiotics many time for sinus infections over the time that my (at the time undiagnosed) IBS-D was getting gradually worse. Is there a link? Who knows.


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## K McG (Jan 1, 2002)

Very interesting reading! Some great minds here--Suffering is a given in this life- but with IBS it's hard to concentrate on suffering nobly, right?I've started a thread on the subject of vinegar-- and hoping some of you will join me on the investigation of its possibilities... Just had one more serving of coleslaw with a huge TBSP of Apple cider vinegar mixed with white vinegar..Holding my breath right now -- Just came back from the PL ( porcelain library )- and NO pain! Yippee!I'm praying that it may just be that the vinegar has some merit!!


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## K McG (Jan 1, 2002)

Very interesting reading! Some great minds here--Suffering is a given in this life- but with IBS it's hard to concentrate on suffering nobly, right?I've started a thread on the subject of vinegar-- and hoping some of you will join me on the investigation of its possibilities... Just had one more serving of coleslaw with a huge TBSP of Apple cider vinegar mixed with white vinegar..Holding my breath right now -- Just came back from the PL ( porcelain library )- and NO pain! Yippee!I'm praying that it may just be that the vinegar has some merit!!


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## admflo (Dec 1, 2001)

In the sixties my sister was a cheerleader and at camp one summer they made them drink a glass of dark vinegar. Claimed it limbered up the muscles so they could do acrobatics better. It is also used as a meat tenderizer. I wonder how it works on the muscles of the stomach and lining.....just a thot


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## admflo (Dec 1, 2001)

In the sixties my sister was a cheerleader and at camp one summer they made them drink a glass of dark vinegar. Claimed it limbered up the muscles so they could do acrobatics better. It is also used as a meat tenderizer. I wonder how it works on the muscles of the stomach and lining.....just a thot


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

eric your warning is well taken. But do remember if it is hard to concentrate on suffering nobly with IBS, with excessive gas it is even harder. Some paraphrases from excessive gas sufferers-"it plagues us day and night""it makes me sick and everyone around me sick to the stomach day and night""It has made me a recluse day and night""I have nothing to live for. I feel totally hopeless. I have no friends. I have no job. I have no life"So I think excessive gas due to colonic dysbiosis not just BO qualifies for a real reason to take antibiotics although if it were me I'd probably try to get over the psychological hurdle of a fecal flora transplant


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

eric your warning is well taken. But do remember if it is hard to concentrate on suffering nobly with IBS, with excessive gas it is even harder. Some paraphrases from excessive gas sufferers-"it plagues us day and night""it makes me sick and everyone around me sick to the stomach day and night""It has made me a recluse day and night""I have nothing to live for. I feel totally hopeless. I have no friends. I have no job. I have no life"So I think excessive gas due to colonic dysbiosis not just BO qualifies for a real reason to take antibiotics although if it were me I'd probably try to get over the psychological hurdle of a fecal flora transplant


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## Lizbec (Dec 20, 2001)

This is in response to the "fast/don't fast" debate. Can I just throw a spanner in the works by pointing out that i get gas (we call it wind) when I DON'T eat??! Having said that, I have noticed most of my D symptoms abate when I don't eat ( which I tend to do during a bad attack because I get nauseous) - interestingly, other unrelated symptoms (eg - eczema) also improve. In the long term it isn't good for me , though, as I am underweight. Anyway Darlene, i hope you manage to find a solution - you have my heartfelt sympathy and I wish you lots of luck.hugsliz


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## Lizbec (Dec 20, 2001)

This is in response to the "fast/don't fast" debate. Can I just throw a spanner in the works by pointing out that i get gas (we call it wind) when I DON'T eat??! Having said that, I have noticed most of my D symptoms abate when I don't eat ( which I tend to do during a bad attack because I get nauseous) - interestingly, other unrelated symptoms (eg - eczema) also improve. In the long term it isn't good for me , though, as I am underweight. Anyway Darlene, i hope you manage to find a solution - you have my heartfelt sympathy and I wish you lots of luck.hugsliz


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Bonnie, I do understand suffering. And also feel they can help certain conditions. However, I don't think and I have just study it breifly really that most people understand them fully when it comes to IBS, especially since most IBS research studies show normal gas amounts for the most part. I do understand people suffering however with abnormal gas also. I don't mean to sound unsympathetic to this.Here is some brief info. http://www.sbherbals.com/aboutbiotics.html At the bottom this may sum up kindof how I feel."As always moderation is the key and proper prescribing is crucial."


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Bonnie, I do understand suffering. And also feel they can help certain conditions. However, I don't think and I have just study it breifly really that most people understand them fully when it comes to IBS, especially since most IBS research studies show normal gas amounts for the most part. I do understand people suffering however with abnormal gas also. I don't mean to sound unsympathetic to this.Here is some brief info. http://www.sbherbals.com/aboutbiotics.html At the bottom this may sum up kindof how I feel."As always moderation is the key and proper prescribing is crucial."


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Eric, you can never sound unsympathetic.







. I was just playing devil's advocate for the sake of this discussion. I should have clarified that. I agree it is very important that people with normal amounts of gas like most IbS'er's have( if studies are to be believed) need to think real carefully before trying antibiotics. And always boost up with probiotics


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Eric, you can never sound unsympathetic.







. I was just playing devil's advocate for the sake of this discussion. I should have clarified that. I agree it is very important that people with normal amounts of gas like most IbS'er's have( if studies are to be believed) need to think real carefully before trying antibiotics. And always boost up with probiotics


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## Paula J. (Nov 23, 2001)

Dear Darlene, I believe IBS comes in all shapes and sizes. My dr. gave me Levbid 2x a day. It worked for a week or 2, and than started not to help much, so I added Phazyme the strongest ones. This put me back to very little gas during the day, but come 2:00 or so in the afternoon lots of gas again. I want all day and night relief. I'm greedy. Sooooo I bought a bottle of wine. Ernest and Julio Gallo Cabernet Sauvinogn. Any will probably work. I'm going to try something cheaper next. I drink the wine, very little maybe an ounce in the morning with the pills. I can go pretty much all day, than when I get home from work take a phazyme, and sometimes the Levbid, and another ounce of wine. This has helped me after 9 years of trying everything, and no relief. I have tried everything imaginable, but I always felt some sort of digestive aid might be what I needed. Many people in Europe, and other countries always drink wine with their meals, and I think this may be why. I think the wine gives the levbid a boost. If anyone else has tried this let me know. I'd love to help someone. You will still have some gas, but the biggest part will disappear. Take care! Paula


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## Paula J. (Nov 23, 2001)

Dear Darlene, I believe IBS comes in all shapes and sizes. My dr. gave me Levbid 2x a day. It worked for a week or 2, and than started not to help much, so I added Phazyme the strongest ones. This put me back to very little gas during the day, but come 2:00 or so in the afternoon lots of gas again. I want all day and night relief. I'm greedy. Sooooo I bought a bottle of wine. Ernest and Julio Gallo Cabernet Sauvinogn. Any will probably work. I'm going to try something cheaper next. I drink the wine, very little maybe an ounce in the morning with the pills. I can go pretty much all day, than when I get home from work take a phazyme, and sometimes the Levbid, and another ounce of wine. This has helped me after 9 years of trying everything, and no relief. I have tried everything imaginable, but I always felt some sort of digestive aid might be what I needed. Many people in Europe, and other countries always drink wine with their meals, and I think this may be why. I think the wine gives the levbid a boost. If anyone else has tried this let me know. I'd love to help someone. You will still have some gas, but the biggest part will disappear. Take care! Paula


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

Paulo I would seriously watch throwing those pills back with wine. LOL Never a good idea.Instead take the phazyme after lunch and see if that helps ya out in the afternoon. For it to be effective you would really have to take it after each meal. BQ


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

Paulo I would seriously watch throwing those pills back with wine. LOL Never a good idea.Instead take the phazyme after lunch and see if that helps ya out in the afternoon. For it to be effective you would really have to take it after each meal. BQ


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

flux, as predicted here is the reminder for you to post the normoflatogenic diet. Have you been to the library recently? Where is the editorial? You know the whole board awaits it. Atleast most of the board







.Come Come! And just for the completeness of the thread, is that fecal flora transplant done with tubes. I am squirming as I ask this question.Darlene- just thought about it- There was a thread called "tibits about gas" in June 2001 which discusses how anxiety affects gas. It is a pretty long and winding thread which goes all over the place but if you have the patience to read it you might find some of it interesting


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

flux, as predicted here is the reminder for you to post the normoflatogenic diet. Have you been to the library recently? Where is the editorial? You know the whole board awaits it. Atleast most of the board







.Come Come! And just for the completeness of the thread, is that fecal flora transplant done with tubes. I am squirming as I ask this question.Darlene- just thought about it- There was a thread called "tibits about gas" in June 2001 which discusses how anxiety affects gas. It is a pretty long and winding thread which goes all over the place but if you have the patience to read it you might find some of it interesting


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## norbert46 (Feb 20, 2001)

Bonnie, if Flux doesn't present the "flatugenic diet" soon, here is a web page that may help some? http://library.mothernature.com/bookstore/...ndex.cfm?chp=60 Norb


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## norbert46 (Feb 20, 2001)

Bonnie, if Flux doesn't present the "flatugenic diet" soon, here is a web page that may help some? http://library.mothernature.com/bookstore/...ndex.cfm?chp=60 Norb


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## stinky too (May 21, 1999)

Great thread!! As some of you know I have had this for 40 year and my social life stinks worse than I do..







I would be willing to try the fecal flora transplant if there was a Doctor around here that would administer it. Traveling very far is out of the question for me as last time I used public transportation I got evil eye from all directions.I know that cutting back on cabrs cut back on the amount of gas but the small amount that seeps out seem to offend people more that the massive amounts. Now the really weird things is when others let me know that I smell bad I don't realize it as don't smell myself, but eat a big bowl of bean and fart all night and that I can smell. Altho that if a less offensive smell.Anyway I want to thank all you guys for you guys for the good advice. Keep the thread goind







I think what we need is an on line support group for those trying the elemination diet.


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## stinky too (May 21, 1999)

Great thread!! As some of you know I have had this for 40 year and my social life stinks worse than I do..







I would be willing to try the fecal flora transplant if there was a Doctor around here that would administer it. Traveling very far is out of the question for me as last time I used public transportation I got evil eye from all directions.I know that cutting back on cabrs cut back on the amount of gas but the small amount that seeps out seem to offend people more that the massive amounts. Now the really weird things is when others let me know that I smell bad I don't realize it as don't smell myself, but eat a big bowl of bean and fart all night and that I can smell. Altho that if a less offensive smell.Anyway I want to thank all you guys for you guys for the good advice. Keep the thread goind







I think what we need is an on line support group for those trying the elemination diet.


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Hilarious article, norbert. Are you sure you didn't write it yourself,







. "brought status to flatus and class to gas". That describes Levitt perfectly. ? As for the diet- I won't let flux off that easily.







If you started an online group for elimination diets I would join it Joycein OH. Great idea.


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Hilarious article, norbert. Are you sure you didn't write it yourself,







. "brought status to flatus and class to gas". That describes Levitt perfectly. ? As for the diet- I won't let flux off that easily.







If you started an online group for elimination diets I would join it Joycein OH. Great idea.


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Wow, you guys are GREAT!!!







Bonniei, I just found the Tidbits about Gas thread. Very interesting reading. Thanks!I am more confused than ever about this gas. I went to the chiropractor yesterday, and he was convinced that my whole problem was that my upper back muscles are weak. Apparently, the nerve is pressing on the digestive organs. He adjusted me quite a bit, and sent me home with some exercises to do to strenghten my upper back. He said that it was SO obvious that this was the problem! Do any of you take Gas-X or another brand of simethicone? I thought about trying this in larger doses to get some relief, especially at night. I wonder how much is safe to take? I've been cutting down on the carbs with no results yet. I know this requires patience. I also started taking Mega-Dophilus from the GNC store. It's an acidophilus that needs to be refrigerated. That's the update for now. Full of gas over here!!!Thanks,Darlene


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Wow, you guys are GREAT!!!







Bonniei, I just found the Tidbits about Gas thread. Very interesting reading. Thanks!I am more confused than ever about this gas. I went to the chiropractor yesterday, and he was convinced that my whole problem was that my upper back muscles are weak. Apparently, the nerve is pressing on the digestive organs. He adjusted me quite a bit, and sent me home with some exercises to do to strenghten my upper back. He said that it was SO obvious that this was the problem! Do any of you take Gas-X or another brand of simethicone? I thought about trying this in larger doses to get some relief, especially at night. I wonder how much is safe to take? I've been cutting down on the carbs with no results yet. I know this requires patience. I also started taking Mega-Dophilus from the GNC store. It's an acidophilus that needs to be refrigerated. That's the update for now. Full of gas over here!!!Thanks,Darlene


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

norbert ,you were on to something with that web page.Thanks. I do believe that is the normoflatugenic diet because the article gave me an idea where to look for the diet. I found it and it turns out to be the same. It was in a paper by Levitt called "Follow up of a flatulent patient" . I found it in more detail so I'll type it up."Normo flatugenic foods- Ingestion of the following foods was found to be associated with "normal" levels of flatulence.1 Meat, fowl and fish2. vegetables-lettuce,cucumber, broccoli, peppers, avocado, cauliflower, tomato, asparagus, zucchini, okra, olives3 Fruits- cantaloupe, grapes, berries4 carbohydrates- rice, corn chips, potato chips, popcorn, graham crackers5 All nuts6 Miscellaneous- eggs, non milk chocolate, jello, fruit ice7 WaterModerately flatugenic foods- pastries, potato, eggplants, citrus fruit, apples, breadExtremeley flatugenic Foods -milk and milk products(if you re lactose intolerant i assume) onions,beans, celery, carrots, raisins, bananas, apricots, prune juice, pretzels, bagels, wheat germ, Brussel sprouts,Wheat could also be extremely flatugenic for some.


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

norbert ,you were on to something with that web page.Thanks. I do believe that is the normoflatugenic diet because the article gave me an idea where to look for the diet. I found it and it turns out to be the same. It was in a paper by Levitt called "Follow up of a flatulent patient" . I found it in more detail so I'll type it up."Normo flatugenic foods- Ingestion of the following foods was found to be associated with "normal" levels of flatulence.1 Meat, fowl and fish2. vegetables-lettuce,cucumber, broccoli, peppers, avocado, cauliflower, tomato, asparagus, zucchini, okra, olives3 Fruits- cantaloupe, grapes, berries4 carbohydrates- rice, corn chips, potato chips, popcorn, graham crackers5 All nuts6 Miscellaneous- eggs, non milk chocolate, jello, fruit ice7 WaterModerately flatugenic foods- pastries, potato, eggplants, citrus fruit, apples, breadExtremeley flatugenic Foods -milk and milk products(if you re lactose intolerant i assume) onions,beans, celery, carrots, raisins, bananas, apricots, prune juice, pretzels, bagels, wheat germ, Brussel sprouts,Wheat could also be extremely flatugenic for some.


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## kyestar (Nov 26, 2001)

My chiropractor agrees that IBS is "caused" be misalignments in the spine. I actually looked up the places that are thought to "cause" IBS independantley of my chiro and they were actually the same areas that she had been adjusting, so who knows??? There may be some truth in it. Be careful with the cultures. I cannot tolerate them at all, they seem to make my symptoms much worse!! Hopefully this is not the same for you!!


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## kyestar (Nov 26, 2001)

My chiropractor agrees that IBS is "caused" be misalignments in the spine. I actually looked up the places that are thought to "cause" IBS independantley of my chiro and they were actually the same areas that she had been adjusting, so who knows??? There may be some truth in it. Be careful with the cultures. I cannot tolerate them at all, they seem to make my symptoms much worse!! Hopefully this is not the same for you!!


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Darlene,Looks like you and I posted at the same time. As far as chiropractors go and postures go, I have always suspected my posture has something to do with atleast part of the gas problem. Because in my early days of gas i read this book about the correct way to sit and I consciously tried to sit like that. It made the problem worse. nerve pressing on the digestive organs, eh? I don't know. Next time I go to my chiropractor I will ask him if he sees the same in me.


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Darlene,Looks like you and I posted at the same time. As far as chiropractors go and postures go, I have always suspected my posture has something to do with atleast part of the gas problem. Because in my early days of gas i read this book about the correct way to sit and I consciously tried to sit like that. It made the problem worse. nerve pressing on the digestive organs, eh? I don't know. Next time I go to my chiropractor I will ask him if he sees the same in me.


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

Comment....Wow, this thread even gives ME gas...the King of Keyboard Excess.While the conversation meanders alot from the original question, the best answers to the original question posed came early in the thread. Since the symptom set is described solely as excess gas, not all that goes with the more complex symptom sets associated with IBS, the protocol recommended by Sr. Flux is precisely what practitioners who work with food allergy and intolerance would recommend right out of the box.The fast need not last 3 days, as he later posted, as 48 hours is often sufficient to note any real decrease in the rate of intestinal gas production.While many of the other ideas presented are very good and instructive of the problems associated with actual excess gas (not the PERCEPTION of excess gas, so you can skip all the work of wrapping your intellect around the CNS and the myenteric plexus in the context of THIS SPECIFIC PROBLEM since the excess production of intestinal gas is not a brain-gut disorder rather a digestive disorder as Flux and others have described) when it comes down to getting the question answered QUICKLY and EFFECTIVELY (is it malabsorption or maldigestion associated with dysbiosis or is it aerophgia) the best protocol is a brief fast.This concept is repugnant to many people for many reasons and rationale (ie: its unhealthful or its impossible to not eat for 48 hours etc), the bottom line is that it is the solution which will give you an answer much EASIER than all the various and endless expriments with various dietary regimens designed to reduce intestinal gas production.All the foods that are prone to be gas-forming have been discussed, and several good diets to try have been offered, and there is nothing wrong with this except that, in working daily with practitioners who focus on this for a living, the upshot for a problem like this is usually frustration at the protracted time and effort. People keep jimmying the diet around trying to eliminate everything from haricots to hummus and the whole time they are still blasting about in disgust.The best thing aout Flux's suggestion is it is quick and accurate.THEN you can decide, if the gas goes away, what to do about what this suggests the problem actaully is (the probabilties lie primarily in dysbiosis or one of several enzymatic problems).here are a couple links aout the flora and its formation which are good reference points to understand what I will now state briefly:-------------------------- http://www.gsbs.utmb.edu/microbook/ch006.htm http://www.ccfa.org/weekly/previous/wkly0723.htm http://www4.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/En...83059595&Dopt=r http://www4.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/En...81119781&Dopt=r We could spend a book writing about all the ways your unique personal flora profile could be disrupted by a severe GI infection (which causes so much flushing that the flora is so disrupted that it does not regenerate adequately) or repeated courses of broad spectrum antibiotics doing the same thing (one course of antibiotic is usually not sufficient to produce permanent dysbiosis...the flora almost always regenerates properly after this...it is the repeated use that is the problem). The tricky part as has already been noted is how does one restore ones own unique flora? Hey, kill all the flora then reinstill the flora of a close relative appears to be the best way, and least attractive as we know.On the other hand using a probiotic with only one or two bacterial strains is often futile (except for the company which manufactures such probiotics...people don't get educated to the fact that the chance of that one bacterial strain being the sole problem is low...they read PROBIO X and an article and then jump all over the shelf grasping at the bottles while holding in their gas or D.)In simple terms, and this field is still nacent so you have to do some detective work on your own to ensure that you are getting live bugs, the broader the specturm of normal residents included in the probiotic (think "broad spectrum probiotics" an example might be Flora Source with 45 strains...not that I endorse the product as I have not used it..just an example) increases the odds of providing a source of that which is underpopulated.Also, while it is I guess possible that some opportunistic infection or pathogen is involved (Giardia is a real gas-producing infection)almost always the symptom set is not restricted to excess gas, but pain and diarrhea would also be present.In summary, while al the information is good and helpful and the debates are all worthy debates, the first and simplest answer is the best protocol to follow when plagued with this simple symptom set...unless you have some other problem which will be exacerbated by a fast (diabetes comes to mind)of at least 48 hours. Set aside a weekend..small investment to know for sure. Plan ahead...what entertainments would best keep you occupied for this brief time?Oh, in passing, this was a bit, uh, intriguing: ____________________________________"I went to the chiropractor yesterday, and he was convinced that my whole problem was that my upper back muscles are weak. Apparently, the nerve is pressing on the digestive organs. He adjusted me quite a bit, and sent me home with some exercises to do to strenghten my upper back. He said that it was SO obvious that this was the problem!" _____________________________________It was SOOO obvious to him that this is the gas problem? You know, just [IMO]Chiropractic is more of an art than a science so to speak, as his statement demonstrates. I am left wondering how many further adjustments were recommended to correct the obvious problem. None I hope. While I have in the past had some personal benefit from chiropractic vis a vis a couple of discs that don't do the job anymore, I remain skeptical that this will lighten any gas load...you will be carrying less excess paper around after awhile though.







Anyway thats all I have to say about that.







Good luckMNL


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

Comment....Wow, this thread even gives ME gas...the King of Keyboard Excess.While the conversation meanders alot from the original question, the best answers to the original question posed came early in the thread. Since the symptom set is described solely as excess gas, not all that goes with the more complex symptom sets associated with IBS, the protocol recommended by Sr. Flux is precisely what practitioners who work with food allergy and intolerance would recommend right out of the box.The fast need not last 3 days, as he later posted, as 48 hours is often sufficient to note any real decrease in the rate of intestinal gas production.While many of the other ideas presented are very good and instructive of the problems associated with actual excess gas (not the PERCEPTION of excess gas, so you can skip all the work of wrapping your intellect around the CNS and the myenteric plexus in the context of THIS SPECIFIC PROBLEM since the excess production of intestinal gas is not a brain-gut disorder rather a digestive disorder as Flux and others have described) when it comes down to getting the question answered QUICKLY and EFFECTIVELY (is it malabsorption or maldigestion associated with dysbiosis or is it aerophgia) the best protocol is a brief fast.This concept is repugnant to many people for many reasons and rationale (ie: its unhealthful or its impossible to not eat for 48 hours etc), the bottom line is that it is the solution which will give you an answer much EASIER than all the various and endless expriments with various dietary regimens designed to reduce intestinal gas production.All the foods that are prone to be gas-forming have been discussed, and several good diets to try have been offered, and there is nothing wrong with this except that, in working daily with practitioners who focus on this for a living, the upshot for a problem like this is usually frustration at the protracted time and effort. People keep jimmying the diet around trying to eliminate everything from haricots to hummus and the whole time they are still blasting about in disgust.The best thing aout Flux's suggestion is it is quick and accurate.THEN you can decide, if the gas goes away, what to do about what this suggests the problem actaully is (the probabilties lie primarily in dysbiosis or one of several enzymatic problems).here are a couple links aout the flora and its formation which are good reference points to understand what I will now state briefly:-------------------------- http://www.gsbs.utmb.edu/microbook/ch006.htm http://www.ccfa.org/weekly/previous/wkly0723.htm http://www4.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/En...83059595&Dopt=r http://www4.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/En...81119781&Dopt=r We could spend a book writing about all the ways your unique personal flora profile could be disrupted by a severe GI infection (which causes so much flushing that the flora is so disrupted that it does not regenerate adequately) or repeated courses of broad spectrum antibiotics doing the same thing (one course of antibiotic is usually not sufficient to produce permanent dysbiosis...the flora almost always regenerates properly after this...it is the repeated use that is the problem). The tricky part as has already been noted is how does one restore ones own unique flora? Hey, kill all the flora then reinstill the flora of a close relative appears to be the best way, and least attractive as we know.On the other hand using a probiotic with only one or two bacterial strains is often futile (except for the company which manufactures such probiotics...people don't get educated to the fact that the chance of that one bacterial strain being the sole problem is low...they read PROBIO X and an article and then jump all over the shelf grasping at the bottles while holding in their gas or D.)In simple terms, and this field is still nacent so you have to do some detective work on your own to ensure that you are getting live bugs, the broader the specturm of normal residents included in the probiotic (think "broad spectrum probiotics" an example might be Flora Source with 45 strains...not that I endorse the product as I have not used it..just an example) increases the odds of providing a source of that which is underpopulated.Also, while it is I guess possible that some opportunistic infection or pathogen is involved (Giardia is a real gas-producing infection)almost always the symptom set is not restricted to excess gas, but pain and diarrhea would also be present.In summary, while al the information is good and helpful and the debates are all worthy debates, the first and simplest answer is the best protocol to follow when plagued with this simple symptom set...unless you have some other problem which will be exacerbated by a fast (diabetes comes to mind)of at least 48 hours. Set aside a weekend..small investment to know for sure. Plan ahead...what entertainments would best keep you occupied for this brief time?Oh, in passing, this was a bit, uh, intriguing: ____________________________________"I went to the chiropractor yesterday, and he was convinced that my whole problem was that my upper back muscles are weak. Apparently, the nerve is pressing on the digestive organs. He adjusted me quite a bit, and sent me home with some exercises to do to strenghten my upper back. He said that it was SO obvious that this was the problem!" _____________________________________It was SOOO obvious to him that this is the gas problem? You know, just [IMO]Chiropractic is more of an art than a science so to speak, as his statement demonstrates. I am left wondering how many further adjustments were recommended to correct the obvious problem. None I hope. While I have in the past had some personal benefit from chiropractic vis a vis a couple of discs that don't do the job anymore, I remain skeptical that this will lighten any gas load...you will be carrying less excess paper around after awhile though.







Anyway thats all I have to say about that.







Good luckMNL


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Mike, this thread has meandered all over the place , hasn't it? It is meant only for people following this thread on an hourly basis,lol. I am on holiday. Unfortunately, or should I say fortunately for your gas, tomorrow I go back to work


> quote:several good diets to try have been offered, and there is nothing wrong with this except that, in working daily with practitioners who focus on this for a living, the upshot for a problem like this is usually frustration at the protracted time and effort. People keep jimmying the diet around trying to eliminate everything from haricots to hummus and the whole time they are still blasting about in disgust.The best thing aout Flux's suggestion is it is quick and accurate.


I agree. In fact I was rather disappointed with the normoflatugenic diet I listed above, because it contained fruits. So Fructose intolerant people might have been driven up the wall with this diet. This was a diet offered in 1979 when they must have not known about fructose intolerance. Who knows what is yet to be discovered in the realm of intolerance.Besides, it seems your whole career is based on finding people's individuall intolerances, so I can understand where you are coming from


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Mike, this thread has meandered all over the place , hasn't it? It is meant only for people following this thread on an hourly basis,lol. I am on holiday. Unfortunately, or should I say fortunately for your gas, tomorrow I go back to work


> quote:several good diets to try have been offered, and there is nothing wrong with this except that, in working daily with practitioners who focus on this for a living, the upshot for a problem like this is usually frustration at the protracted time and effort. People keep jimmying the diet around trying to eliminate everything from haricots to hummus and the whole time they are still blasting about in disgust.The best thing aout Flux's suggestion is it is quick and accurate.


I agree. In fact I was rather disappointed with the normoflatugenic diet I listed above, because it contained fruits. So Fructose intolerant people might have been driven up the wall with this diet. This was a diet offered in 1979 when they must have not known about fructose intolerance. Who knows what is yet to be discovered in the realm of intolerance.Besides, it seems your whole career is based on finding people's individuall intolerances, so I can understand where you are coming from


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

Darlene I have used Phazyme. However none of the simethicone(sp?) products will work too well if you only take then like once a day. They only work with reducing the gas of the food they are consumed with. So one needs to take them with each meal. Sorry if you knew this already.BQ


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

Darlene I have used Phazyme. However none of the simethicone(sp?) products will work too well if you only take then like once a day. They only work with reducing the gas of the food they are consumed with. So one needs to take them with each meal. Sorry if you knew this already.BQ


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Sorry to digress from Mike's interests again buthere is an editorial in the AJG for those interested in fecal flora transplant. http://www-east.elsevier.com/ajg/issues/9511/ajg3277edi.htm "It seems that the method of delivery of the fecal slurry into the bowel results in cure, whether given by an enema suspended in saline (3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 19) or milk (10, 12), by a small bowel infusion via a nasoduodenal tube (5, 7), a gastrostomy (9), or a colonoscope (Persky et al.). " That answers the other question I asked so I can leave in peace.So Darlene, good luck. If necessary I hope you will be able to get over any "fecophobia" as the editorial calls it. Take care


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Sorry to digress from Mike's interests again buthere is an editorial in the AJG for those interested in fecal flora transplant. http://www-east.elsevier.com/ajg/issues/9511/ajg3277edi.htm "It seems that the method of delivery of the fecal slurry into the bowel results in cure, whether given by an enema suspended in saline (3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 19) or milk (10, 12), by a small bowel infusion via a nasoduodenal tube (5, 7), a gastrostomy (9), or a colonoscope (Persky et al.). " That answers the other question I asked so I can leave in peace.So Darlene, good luck. If necessary I hope you will be able to get over any "fecophobia" as the editorial calls it. Take care


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

I have a pretty bad case of fecophobia right now!







But as the saying goes, "never say never". Someday I may get desperate enough to try it! Thanks for finding the info, bonniei. Yeah Mike, I kinda agree with you about the chiropractor thing. It does seem a little hard to believe. However, I do feel weak in my upper back, so it certainly can't hurt to build those muscles. I went out and bought some weights today. Time to exercise and get in shape, with or without gas!Hey, does anyone know how much simethicone is safe to take? I sometimes take the max. dose on the box (and it's not that much help), but it says that you can only exceed upon discretion of a physician. I don't see my doctor again until later in the month. BQ, I didn't realize that it only worked if taken with every meal. I usually take it when I feel the gassiest, and it obviously doesn't work with gas already present. So should I be taking it every day, every meal since I am always gassy to some extent?? All of you seem more educated than these doctors. Does anyone else take simethicone on a daily basis? I never thought about taking it at every meal, since it seems like it would be just masking an underlying problem and not really treating it. But then again, maybe there isn't any cure for this. By the way, the gas that I get is the trapped kind that is extremely uncomfortable. When I lie down or exercise, I get rid of it in huge amounts, then it builds up again! The rice/water/ensure thing still seems like the only way to get a real answer. When I see my doctor later this month, I will discuss it with him. Thanks!Darlene


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

I have a pretty bad case of fecophobia right now!







But as the saying goes, "never say never". Someday I may get desperate enough to try it! Thanks for finding the info, bonniei. Yeah Mike, I kinda agree with you about the chiropractor thing. It does seem a little hard to believe. However, I do feel weak in my upper back, so it certainly can't hurt to build those muscles. I went out and bought some weights today. Time to exercise and get in shape, with or without gas!Hey, does anyone know how much simethicone is safe to take? I sometimes take the max. dose on the box (and it's not that much help), but it says that you can only exceed upon discretion of a physician. I don't see my doctor again until later in the month. BQ, I didn't realize that it only worked if taken with every meal. I usually take it when I feel the gassiest, and it obviously doesn't work with gas already present. So should I be taking it every day, every meal since I am always gassy to some extent?? All of you seem more educated than these doctors. Does anyone else take simethicone on a daily basis? I never thought about taking it at every meal, since it seems like it would be just masking an underlying problem and not really treating it. But then again, maybe there isn't any cure for this. By the way, the gas that I get is the trapped kind that is extremely uncomfortable. When I lie down or exercise, I get rid of it in huge amounts, then it builds up again! The rice/water/ensure thing still seems like the only way to get a real answer. When I see my doctor later this month, I will discuss it with him. Thanks!Darlene


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

Yeah Darlene You really need to take it after/with each meal as it only works with the food it is taken with. It will help break up the gas that may be formed by digesting the food you _just_ ate. I usually used the dosage reccommended (lol, I _know_ it is either two 'c's or two 'm's, well you know what I mean







) on the package. Only if I knew I was treading on thin ice with eating a particular food, like I assumed it would cause gas, would I increase the dosage by 1. (I'm talking the "extra-strength" type of Phazyme gel tabs here, just so you know) And even though I was really good and obedient in school AND Catholic..... I didn't call the Doc first.







I know, I probably have to go for detention (or distension???) now.







So give it a try With your meals for a few days & see if that helps you. Let us know how you do. I really hope it helps you.







BQ


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

Yeah Darlene You really need to take it after/with each meal as it only works with the food it is taken with. It will help break up the gas that may be formed by digesting the food you _just_ ate. I usually used the dosage reccommended (lol, I _know_ it is either two 'c's or two 'm's, well you know what I mean







) on the package. Only if I knew I was treading on thin ice with eating a particular food, like I assumed it would cause gas, would I increase the dosage by 1. (I'm talking the "extra-strength" type of Phazyme gel tabs here, just so you know) And even though I was really good and obedient in school AND Catholic..... I didn't call the Doc first.







I know, I probably have to go for detention (or distension???) now.







So give it a try With your meals for a few days & see if that helps you. Let us know how you do. I really hope it helps you.







BQ


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote: do believe that is the normoflatugenic diet


You beat me too it









> quote:My chiropractor agrees that IBS is "caused" be misalignments in the spine.


Nope. Neither IBS nor any other disease is caused by this because they do *not* exist. You can learn why by checking out http://www.chirobase.org/


> quote: with the normoflatugenic diet I listed above, because it contained fruits. So Fructose intolerant people might have been driven up the wall with this diet.


Remember this is a single person's account. I give it weight, though, because I trust its source. I suspect that it depends how things are consumed. For example, orange juice could be problem because it's a liquid and it moves through the gut quickly, but solid fruits need to be digested and so by their spending longer time in the upper gut, it lessens the effect. Plus, maybe this person may efficiently absorb fructose.


> quote:This was a diet offered in 1979 when they must have not known about fructose intolerance.


Levitt knew about fructose malabsorption long before then. *Everything* we know about gas we know because of him









> quote:Hey, does anyone know how much simethicone is safe to take?





> quote:You really need to take it after/with each meal as it only works with the food it is taken with


You could probably more without any side effects, but I doubt you'd see any positive effect whether you take more or even when you take it. All it does it break up the gas bubbles. The gas is still going to be there.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote: do believe that is the normoflatugenic diet


You beat me too it









> quote:My chiropractor agrees that IBS is "caused" be misalignments in the spine.


Nope. Neither IBS nor any other disease is caused by this because they do *not* exist. You can learn why by checking out http://www.chirobase.org/


> quote: with the normoflatugenic diet I listed above, because it contained fruits. So Fructose intolerant people might have been driven up the wall with this diet.


Remember this is a single person's account. I give it weight, though, because I trust its source. I suspect that it depends how things are consumed. For example, orange juice could be problem because it's a liquid and it moves through the gut quickly, but solid fruits need to be digested and so by their spending longer time in the upper gut, it lessens the effect. Plus, maybe this person may efficiently absorb fructose.


> quote:This was a diet offered in 1979 when they must have not known about fructose intolerance.


Levitt knew about fructose malabsorption long before then. *Everything* we know about gas we know because of him









> quote:Hey, does anyone know how much simethicone is safe to take?





> quote:You really need to take it after/with each meal as it only works with the food it is taken with


You could probably more without any side effects, but I doubt you'd see any positive effect whether you take more or even when you take it. All it does it break up the gas bubbles. The gas is still going to be there.


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

True Flux, The gas _will_ still be there. Call me vain, but I think one can never have 'thin' enough gas bubbles.







Response from a famous Mirror on a wall:"The thinner passes easiest of all."







LOL I dunno.BQ


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

True Flux, The gas _will_ still be there. Call me vain, but I think one can never have 'thin' enough gas bubbles.







Response from a famous Mirror on a wall:"The thinner passes easiest of all."







LOL I dunno.BQ


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

BQ, you have a great sense of humor!!! Yes, let's make this gas as thin as possible!! I took the Gas-X with every meal yesterday and then at bedtime with no reduction of gas. It sounds like you take Phazyme. What do "c" and "m" mean that you mentioned in your message? I can only think of "cherry" or "mint" flavored, but you said that you take the softgels. Hmm, you got me stumped!! I copied down the flatugenic diet that Bonniei found, and will try to follow it. Imagine telling someone that you are on the flatugenic diet!







Thanks Bonniei! Even though you're heading back to work today, hope we still see you on here!You guys have been extremely helpful!! Just curious, how much gas do all of you get? Is it a daily thing for you guys too? Or do you notice it more with certain foods? I notice the gas every day no matter what I eat. It seems like the bacteria feeds on absolutely anything!







Thanks for being here!!







Darlene


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

BQ, you have a great sense of humor!!! Yes, let's make this gas as thin as possible!! I took the Gas-X with every meal yesterday and then at bedtime with no reduction of gas. It sounds like you take Phazyme. What do "c" and "m" mean that you mentioned in your message? I can only think of "cherry" or "mint" flavored, but you said that you take the softgels. Hmm, you got me stumped!! I copied down the flatugenic diet that Bonniei found, and will try to follow it. Imagine telling someone that you are on the flatugenic diet!







Thanks Bonniei! Even though you're heading back to work today, hope we still see you on here!You guys have been extremely helpful!! Just curious, how much gas do all of you get? Is it a daily thing for you guys too? Or do you notice it more with certain foods? I notice the gas every day no matter what I eat. It seems like the bacteria feeds on absolutely anything!







Thanks for being here!!







Darlene


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Very interesting info. on the chiropractic website. Very informative. As always, thank you Flux!!!


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Very interesting info. on the chiropractic website. Very informative. As always, thank you Flux!!!


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

Darlene, LOL I just didn't then nor do I know now, whether the word 'reccommended' has either 2 "c"'s in it *or* 2 "m"'s. LOLI'm sorry the GasX isn't helping. Perhaps just doing the fast will tell the tale. Hope you feel better.I'll try to find time to look up that word 'reccommended'. LOLBQ


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

Darlene, LOL I just didn't then nor do I know now, whether the word 'reccommended' has either 2 "c"'s in it *or* 2 "m"'s. LOLI'm sorry the GasX isn't helping. Perhaps just doing the fast will tell the tale. Hope you feel better.I'll try to find time to look up that word 'reccommended'. LOLBQ


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

LOL BQ!! Sorry for the confusion. I had to look it up too, and it has one "c" in it and two "m"s.







One of my doctors told me a long time ago to take the Gas-X BEFORE meals instead of after meals. He said that it will work better that way. Just thought that I would mention that.Darlene


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

LOL BQ!! Sorry for the confusion. I had to look it up too, and it has one "c" in it and two "m"s.







One of my doctors told me a long time ago to take the Gas-X BEFORE meals instead of after meals. He said that it will work better that way. Just thought that I would mention that.Darlene


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

> quote:Even though you're heading back to work today, hope we still see you on here!


.Couldn't resist a peek today. Thanks, darlene







I'll probably be back in May/June. If you succeed in this quest of yours do post. I'll be reading.flux regarding the normoflatogenic diet containing fruits- I forgot that Levitt was your guru and all your ideas about fructose and lactose intolerance and consequent symptoms come from him.







It shouldn't have surprised me that a normoflatogenic diet by Levitt contains fruits!Hmmm... I really need to check the diet out or atleast really test fruits.


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

> quote:Even though you're heading back to work today, hope we still see you on here!


.Couldn't resist a peek today. Thanks, darlene







I'll probably be back in May/June. If you succeed in this quest of yours do post. I'll be reading.flux regarding the normoflatogenic diet containing fruits- I forgot that Levitt was your guru and all your ideas about fructose and lactose intolerance and consequent symptoms come from him.







It shouldn't have surprised me that a normoflatogenic diet by Levitt contains fruits!Hmmm... I really need to check the diet out or atleast really test fruits.


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Great to hear from you again, Bonnie.







Thanks for all of your support and advice these past 10 days. If you ever want to drop a line, my e-mail is darlene1064###hotmail.com Anybody feel free to write. I am always willing to talk about IBS and gas (LOL) Darlene


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Great to hear from you again, Bonnie.







Thanks for all of your support and advice these past 10 days. If you ever want to drop a line, my e-mail is darlene1064###hotmail.com Anybody feel free to write. I am always willing to talk about IBS and gas (LOL) Darlene


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

OK LOL 2 "M"'s Thanx







BQ


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

OK LOL 2 "M"'s Thanx







BQ


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## ls (Jan 20, 2002)

In regards to fasting: Personally, I find it helpful for IBS since I don't have to digest anything! BUT YOU SHOULD NEVER FAST ON WATER ONLY. I'm not a physician, but a fairly educated biologist and I have done extensive reading on fasting. I have yet to see anyone who suggests this. In fact, there is usually always a statement not to drink just water. I feel great during fasting and I am a total pig normally, but I have to have juice. Vegetable juices are preferred, but fruit juices are easier to come by. Please do lots of research before you try anything.


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## ls (Jan 20, 2002)

In regards to fasting: Personally, I find it helpful for IBS since I don't have to digest anything! BUT YOU SHOULD NEVER FAST ON WATER ONLY. I'm not a physician, but a fairly educated biologist and I have done extensive reading on fasting. I have yet to see anyone who suggests this. In fact, there is usually always a statement not to drink just water. I feel great during fasting and I am a total pig normally, but I have to have juice. Vegetable juices are preferred, but fruit juices are easier to come by. Please do lots of research before you try anything.


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## stinky too (May 21, 1999)

I did the 3 day fast years ago, not only did I loose weight that I could not afford to loose but it screwed up my bowels. Like everything just stayed in there until I ate some fiber to get things moving again. "Some fiber and some TNT that is"


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## stinky too (May 21, 1999)

I did the 3 day fast years ago, not only did I loose weight that I could not afford to loose but it screwed up my bowels. Like everything just stayed in there until I ate some fiber to get things moving again. "Some fiber and some TNT that is"


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:BUT YOU SHOULD NEVER FAST ON WATER ONLY


This is hardly logical. Fasting means not to eat. The purpose in this case is a medical experiment and the fasting time is short, only 48 hours.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:BUT YOU SHOULD NEVER FAST ON WATER ONLY


This is hardly logical. Fasting means not to eat. The purpose in this case is a medical experiment and the fasting time is short, only 48 hours.


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## Lbee (Mar 21, 2001)

Hi Darlene,Just putting in my two cents worth (or should that be two dollars worth these days, with inflation and all?!)I have had many gas problems over the years, but it has steadily improved as time goes on and I find strategies that work for me.Something that helped a lot is avoiding all gluten in my diet. I am not a celiac, but it is possible to have a gluten intolerance without being celiac. It is hard avoiding gluten altogether, but you do find substitutes in health food stores and supermarkets, such as corn or rice pasta, rice bread etc. I think this might help you a lot. You do have to stick to it for a reasonable period of time, though, to see if it works. Give it at least a month to six weeks, I think.I find also that eating light and consistently for breakfast,lunch and snacks seems to help. Having bland things such as rice or corn cereal for breakfast( I find that linseed and almond meal on top is good for extra fiber), rice or corn crackers with some sort of spread for lunch and maybe a small amount of fruit or vegetable, such as an apple or a salad to go with it.For dinner, I don't worry quite so much, as you have to eat more substantially so that you're not hungry, and more gas when you're by yourself at home is, while not particularly desirable,not quite so bad as when you're out during the day.I find that I'm okay with dairy foods, but if you feel that they are a problem, go with things such as rice milk rather than soy. I find that soy makes the gas situation a lot worse.I do still have problems with gas, but they are SO much better than they used to be. The gas doesn't smell so bad, either, which is definitely a good thing!Anyway, I would especially give the gluten avoidance thing a good go, before you try anything else. It can't hurt, and it's a whole lot easier than a complete fast.Good luck!Feel free to email me if you like. My address can be found in my profile on here.







Lbee.


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## Lbee (Mar 21, 2001)

Hi Darlene,Just putting in my two cents worth (or should that be two dollars worth these days, with inflation and all?!)I have had many gas problems over the years, but it has steadily improved as time goes on and I find strategies that work for me.Something that helped a lot is avoiding all gluten in my diet. I am not a celiac, but it is possible to have a gluten intolerance without being celiac. It is hard avoiding gluten altogether, but you do find substitutes in health food stores and supermarkets, such as corn or rice pasta, rice bread etc. I think this might help you a lot. You do have to stick to it for a reasonable period of time, though, to see if it works. Give it at least a month to six weeks, I think.I find also that eating light and consistently for breakfast,lunch and snacks seems to help. Having bland things such as rice or corn cereal for breakfast( I find that linseed and almond meal on top is good for extra fiber), rice or corn crackers with some sort of spread for lunch and maybe a small amount of fruit or vegetable, such as an apple or a salad to go with it.For dinner, I don't worry quite so much, as you have to eat more substantially so that you're not hungry, and more gas when you're by yourself at home is, while not particularly desirable,not quite so bad as when you're out during the day.I find that I'm okay with dairy foods, but if you feel that they are a problem, go with things such as rice milk rather than soy. I find that soy makes the gas situation a lot worse.I do still have problems with gas, but they are SO much better than they used to be. The gas doesn't smell so bad, either, which is definitely a good thing!Anyway, I would especially give the gluten avoidance thing a good go, before you try anything else. It can't hurt, and it's a whole lot easier than a complete fast.Good luck!Feel free to email me if you like. My address can be found in my profile on here.







Lbee.


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Thanks for the advice!My doctor has already told me NOT to do a water/rice fast. I won't go against his better judgment,so maybe an elimination diet will be helpful. Truthfully, I don't think that I would be able to live on water/rice for a week anyway. As much as I want to get rid of the gas, it might cause other problems. With my luck, it would lower my immunities and I would get a cold or a flu. That's what happened when I fasted for the colonsocopy.I really don't know if anyone's gas can be as much as mine. I pass gas over 50 times a day. I used to be able to sleep during the night, but it has been waking me up for several months now. I don't know why it's getting worse. It's kind of scary, even though it is only gas. By the way, it is always NON-odorous, no smell at all. My doctor really feels that it is a bacterial imbalance. He suggested to take Zoloft, and I am not so sure if I want to try it. Does anyone have any success stories to share regarding gas and antidepressants?Thanks,Darlene


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Thanks for the advice!My doctor has already told me NOT to do a water/rice fast. I won't go against his better judgment,so maybe an elimination diet will be helpful. Truthfully, I don't think that I would be able to live on water/rice for a week anyway. As much as I want to get rid of the gas, it might cause other problems. With my luck, it would lower my immunities and I would get a cold or a flu. That's what happened when I fasted for the colonsocopy.I really don't know if anyone's gas can be as much as mine. I pass gas over 50 times a day. I used to be able to sleep during the night, but it has been waking me up for several months now. I don't know why it's getting worse. It's kind of scary, even though it is only gas. By the way, it is always NON-odorous, no smell at all. My doctor really feels that it is a bacterial imbalance. He suggested to take Zoloft, and I am not so sure if I want to try it. Does anyone have any success stories to share regarding gas and antidepressants?Thanks,Darlene


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:My doctor has already told me NOT to do a water/rice fast. I won't go against his better judgment,


I would definitely question this judgement. What's the rationale behind it?


> quote:live on water/rice for a week anyway.


Is 48 hours a week?


> quote:I really don't know if anyone's gas can be as much as mine. I pass gas over 50 times a day.


Well, this *is* abnormal. I think you are the second person on the whole BB. But you are not the worst. The highest recorded daily numbers are 169 and 119 in two different people.


> quote:I used to be able to sleep during the night, but it has been waking me up for several months now.


I don't think you can pass gas while you are sleeping. If the rectum fills while you are sleeping it will wake you.


> quote:My doctor really feels that it is a bacterial imbalance.


But you haven't done the fast, so could he know that or verify it?


> quote: He suggested to take Zoloft,


Does he think the bacteria are depressed or something? I don't get it.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:My doctor has already told me NOT to do a water/rice fast. I won't go against his better judgment,


I would definitely question this judgement. What's the rationale behind it?


> quote:live on water/rice for a week anyway.


Is 48 hours a week?


> quote:I really don't know if anyone's gas can be as much as mine. I pass gas over 50 times a day.


Well, this *is* abnormal. I think you are the second person on the whole BB. But you are not the worst. The highest recorded daily numbers are 169 and 119 in two different people.


> quote:I used to be able to sleep during the night, but it has been waking me up for several months now.


I don't think you can pass gas while you are sleeping. If the rectum fills while you are sleeping it will wake you.


> quote:My doctor really feels that it is a bacterial imbalance.


But you haven't done the fast, so could he know that or verify it?


> quote: He suggested to take Zoloft,


Does he think the bacteria are depressed or something? I don't get it.


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## RitaLucy (May 3, 2000)

Darlene,I haven't read this whole post but I did scan it and I saw a post where you had a reaction to ginger root.Well I am IBS -C and I read on the suggestion from a member here that Ginger Root is suppose to be really good etc.I bought some right before the holidays and I took one 750 mg. capsule and it took me 2 weeks before I began to feel better. I don't know exactly what it set off but I almost had to go to the hospital that evening. I began having symptoms from it about 2 hours after I took it.I saw my Dr. the next a.m. that is after I took double dosages of bentyl every 2 hrs. that evening before to avoid going to the hospital. He told me that he believed it had to be the Ginger Root that set me into spasms -- both the gallbladder and small intestine. It was the worst pain I have ever experienced.I am so reluctant to try new things for just this reason -- you never know!I didn't realize there were others on here who reacted to Ginger Root as well.Maybe we are related!


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## RitaLucy (May 3, 2000)

Darlene,I haven't read this whole post but I did scan it and I saw a post where you had a reaction to ginger root.Well I am IBS -C and I read on the suggestion from a member here that Ginger Root is suppose to be really good etc.I bought some right before the holidays and I took one 750 mg. capsule and it took me 2 weeks before I began to feel better. I don't know exactly what it set off but I almost had to go to the hospital that evening. I began having symptoms from it about 2 hours after I took it.I saw my Dr. the next a.m. that is after I took double dosages of bentyl every 2 hrs. that evening before to avoid going to the hospital. He told me that he believed it had to be the Ginger Root that set me into spasms -- both the gallbladder and small intestine. It was the worst pain I have ever experienced.I am so reluctant to try new things for just this reason -- you never know!I didn't realize there were others on here who reacted to Ginger Root as well.Maybe we are related!


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Darlene, as you know, I have been communicating my thoughts about anti depressants and gas by e-mail to you. I would anyway like to put forth my thoughts here for the record since I have advocated psychiatric meds in the past on the board. Whether they actually reduce the amount of gas: I am unwilling to commit myself to that for this reason- it is only recently that I discovered through another member that the antibiotic( Augmentin which contains Amoxicillin)I take regularly for another disease helps reduce gas. I have been thinking real hard and I think I started taking this particular antibiotic around the same time that I started on anti d's and had the reduction in gas. So it is highly likely , if BB stories are anything to go by that it was that particular antibiotic which reduced the gas. So I apologize to the board if I ever said anti d's reduce gas. I would agree with flux( who am I to agree or disagree with him.?! He is the expert but based on the little knowledge that I do have, I do agree) that if your doc thinks it is a bacterial problem it is a bit confusing why he is suggesting anti-ds. Did your doc suggest an anti d or did you suggest it to him( don't know if you were aware of my experience with anti d's when you met him?)


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Darlene, as you know, I have been communicating my thoughts about anti depressants and gas by e-mail to you. I would anyway like to put forth my thoughts here for the record since I have advocated psychiatric meds in the past on the board. Whether they actually reduce the amount of gas: I am unwilling to commit myself to that for this reason- it is only recently that I discovered through another member that the antibiotic( Augmentin which contains Amoxicillin)I take regularly for another disease helps reduce gas. I have been thinking real hard and I think I started taking this particular antibiotic around the same time that I started on anti d's and had the reduction in gas. So it is highly likely , if BB stories are anything to go by that it was that particular antibiotic which reduced the gas. So I apologize to the board if I ever said anti d's reduce gas. I would agree with flux( who am I to agree or disagree with him.?! He is the expert but based on the little knowledge that I do have, I do agree) that if your doc thinks it is a bacterial problem it is a bit confusing why he is suggesting anti-ds. Did your doc suggest an anti d or did you suggest it to him( don't know if you were aware of my experience with anti d's when you met him?)


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## stinky too (May 21, 1999)

gluten doesn't bother me as much as fruit, and fruit juice.Stayed away from fruit a few days and still had the smell problem but the huge amounts of gas were gone. Last 2 days I had an apple and I could inflate one of those hot air balloons all by myself..


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## stinky too (May 21, 1999)

gluten doesn't bother me as much as fruit, and fruit juice.Stayed away from fruit a few days and still had the smell problem but the huge amounts of gas were gone. Last 2 days I had an apple and I could inflate one of those hot air balloons all by myself..


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

169 times, I feel sorry for that person.LOL on the depressed bacteria Flux, there's an IBS theory.







No offence to Darlene. This can be and is frustrating to figure out.I sure would ask him some questions Darlene, when you see him.Why an antidepressant?Can you to a tests for bacteria? (Have you had stool tests done?)Etc.


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

169 times, I feel sorry for that person.LOL on the depressed bacteria Flux, there's an IBS theory.







No offence to Darlene. This can be and is frustrating to figure out.I sure would ask him some questions Darlene, when you see him.Why an antidepressant?Can you to a tests for bacteria? (Have you had stool tests done?)Etc.


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

gee, I never looked at this thread I think for some reason....so long maybe..did not read it just the last few posts.Just and observation on: _____________________________________"I don't think you can pass gas while you are sleeping. If the rectum fills while you are sleeping it will wake you." _____________________________________Actually this does happen at times without the person waking up...I think you are right in that the state of consciousness is probably increased but I have had this experience and witnessed it and I was not awake, at least not enough to be aware of being conscious, and ditto for other observed people. Not being argumentative, just making an interesting observation.MNL


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

gee, I never looked at this thread I think for some reason....so long maybe..did not read it just the last few posts.Just and observation on: _____________________________________"I don't think you can pass gas while you are sleeping. If the rectum fills while you are sleeping it will wake you." _____________________________________Actually this does happen at times without the person waking up...I think you are right in that the state of consciousness is probably increased but I have had this experience and witnessed it and I was not awake, at least not enough to be aware of being conscious, and ditto for other observed people. Not being argumentative, just making an interesting observation.MNL


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:Actually this does happen at times without the person waking up...I think you are right in that the state of consciousness is probably increased but I have had this experience and witnessed it and I was not awake, at least not enough to be aware of being conscious, and ditto for other observed people. Not being argumentative, just making an interesting observation


During sleep, how could the rectum "know" to allow gas to pass but not stool if it had been so filled?


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:Actually this does happen at times without the person waking up...I think you are right in that the state of consciousness is probably increased but I have had this experience and witnessed it and I was not awake, at least not enough to be aware of being conscious, and ditto for other observed people. Not being argumentative, just making an interesting observation


During sleep, how could the rectum "know" to allow gas to pass but not stool if it had been so filled?


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Flux,The gas initially wakes me up because it is causing discomfort in my colon. After I am awake, I spend hours passing the gas during the night. It keeps me up all night. I thought that I better explain that further since it is causing some controversy. By the way, your post yesterday really upset me. You were actually making fun of my condition. I am already on the verge of giving up, and then I read your sarcastic remarks. Please refrain from making me the brunt of your jokes.Darlene


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Flux,The gas initially wakes me up because it is causing discomfort in my colon. After I am awake, I spend hours passing the gas during the night. It keeps me up all night. I thought that I better explain that further since it is causing some controversy. By the way, your post yesterday really upset me. You were actually making fun of my condition. I am already on the verge of giving up, and then I read your sarcastic remarks. Please refrain from making me the brunt of your jokes.Darlene


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

I am sorry I am butting in but I feel I can be of help as an objective observer. Ok! Not so objective since I know you both some through e-mail but I think you two are both caring people and I want to say this especially about flux since he often comes across as so aloof and he may give the impression of even being arrogant because he has so much knowledge. He is really sweet in e-mail, so that tells me these sound bites or view bites we get of him on the bulletin board are not the true picture of him. Darlene, I feel you would have got a far different perspective of him if you had tried to pursue your problem with him through e-mail. I don't think flux was trying to be sarcastic, based on what I know of him although I have to admit when I saw his joke about the depressed bacteria , I said this is going to give the whole post a sarcastic slant and get him "into trouble" I think he could have joked about it if only he had added a smile or some other graemlin to convey what he was feeling. Flux, you really meant to add that didn't you? Darlene, you have tried to put up a brave front through this thread and I know it has been hard for you but I have noticed when people are often desperate or when no one else answers their post , it is usually flux who comes tothe rescue and says something, even though it may be something like a question, which is usually seen as aggravating but is in actuality really penetrating , like " How do you know you have gas". He is really trying to help with the knowledge he has although he would get into less trouble on the board by saying , "tell me more about your gas". He is probably just trying to avoid the person telling him every twist and turn of his gas by not asking such a question!







.But to get back to you darlene, if you could imagine the whole post without that last joke you probably wouldn't have thought he was sarcastic and maybe asked his clarification over a question or two. If that is true, I say flux, just say you didn't mean to laugh at her condition but were instead questioning her doctor's judgement or whatever it is you had in mind. I really don't believe you were laughing over her condition.


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

I am sorry I am butting in but I feel I can be of help as an objective observer. Ok! Not so objective since I know you both some through e-mail but I think you two are both caring people and I want to say this especially about flux since he often comes across as so aloof and he may give the impression of even being arrogant because he has so much knowledge. He is really sweet in e-mail, so that tells me these sound bites or view bites we get of him on the bulletin board are not the true picture of him. Darlene, I feel you would have got a far different perspective of him if you had tried to pursue your problem with him through e-mail. I don't think flux was trying to be sarcastic, based on what I know of him although I have to admit when I saw his joke about the depressed bacteria , I said this is going to give the whole post a sarcastic slant and get him "into trouble" I think he could have joked about it if only he had added a smile or some other graemlin to convey what he was feeling. Flux, you really meant to add that didn't you? Darlene, you have tried to put up a brave front through this thread and I know it has been hard for you but I have noticed when people are often desperate or when no one else answers their post , it is usually flux who comes tothe rescue and says something, even though it may be something like a question, which is usually seen as aggravating but is in actuality really penetrating , like " How do you know you have gas". He is really trying to help with the knowledge he has although he would get into less trouble on the board by saying , "tell me more about your gas". He is probably just trying to avoid the person telling him every twist and turn of his gas by not asking such a question!







.But to get back to you darlene, if you could imagine the whole post without that last joke you probably wouldn't have thought he was sarcastic and maybe asked his clarification over a question or two. If that is true, I say flux, just say you didn't mean to laugh at her condition but were instead questioning her doctor's judgement or whatever it is you had in mind. I really don't believe you were laughing over her condition.


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

I want to say flux appears aloof only becaus he doesn't use more graemlins. Flux Please us emore graemlins and if he doesn't people please imagine more graemlins. I am sure we have all known situations in which we could have refined our posts with more graemlins. OK Now I'll butt out. Probably the two of you will never talk to me again







Please don't do that


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

I want to say flux appears aloof only becaus he doesn't use more graemlins. Flux Please us emore graemlins and if he doesn't people please imagine more graemlins. I am sure we have all known situations in which we could have refined our posts with more graemlins. OK Now I'll butt out. Probably the two of you will never talk to me again







Please don't do that


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote: If that is true, I say flux, just say you didn't mean to laugh at her condition but were instead questioning her doctor's judgement


You mean the latter isn't obvious? I thought I was good at playing the role of a night show talk host: I merely pointed out what someone else (the doctor) is doing (suggesting one consume anti-depressants to treat gas whose cause is merely speculation on the part of the doctor) that is funny (what could the possible physiologic connection be?). Does that explain it?I was actually even thinking of a funnier line. Better not.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote: If that is true, I say flux, just say you didn't mean to laugh at her condition but were instead questioning her doctor's judgement


You mean the latter isn't obvious? I thought I was good at playing the role of a night show talk host: I merely pointed out what someone else (the doctor) is doing (suggesting one consume anti-depressants to treat gas whose cause is merely speculation on the part of the doctor) that is funny (what could the possible physiologic connection be?). Does that explain it?I was actually even thinking of a funnier line. Better not.


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Darlene, so you know we weren't laughing at you and realize how serious this can be for sure.Were all here to help you so you know.


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Darlene, so you know we weren't laughing at you and realize how serious this can be for sure.Were all here to help you so you know.


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Thanks flux for the explanation. I was half afraid you would ignore our posts.







. Those graemlins really help. I would definitely agree with







Darlene, while it is very difficult to see the funny side of things when one is "totally hopeless" and depressed and I don't necessarily expect you to see the humor in it right now, I hope you will be able to accept flux's statement that he found something funny in your doc's approach and not in your condition. I sure wish we could do something to cheer you up


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Thanks flux for the explanation. I was half afraid you would ignore our posts.







. Those graemlins really help. I would definitely agree with







Darlene, while it is very difficult to see the funny side of things when one is "totally hopeless" and depressed and I don't necessarily expect you to see the humor in it right now, I hope you will be able to accept flux's statement that he found something funny in your doc's approach and not in your condition. I sure wish we could do something to cheer you up


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

THANK YOU, Bonnie, for caring enough to try to straighten this out.







You are very thoughtful!! As you know, I've had a bad week. The gas condition is worsening all of the time, so it's very depressing. I'll e-mail you soon, Bonnie.Flux, since you care enough to post and try to help, perhaps I shouldn't read into things and take things so personally. I'll confide in you and tell you what's been going on. When I went to the doctor last week, he decided to try one more antibiotic, and he gave me a low dose of Flagyl (one 250 mg. pill per day for two weeks). By the second day, nearly all of the excess gas was gone. I went from 50 plus episodes per day to maybe 10 or less. I felt GREAT for exactly three days, then everything came back with a vengeance. I kept taking one Flagyl per day for seven days total, and then I ended up with the worst rumbling and gas that I've ever had in my whole life. I stopped taking the antibiotic (the last pill I took was on Monday) and it's been a nightmare ever since. The antibiotic seemed to be causing distress, so I would never consider taking it EVER again. In fact, I can't even tolerate any meds at this point, not even regular Tylenol over the counter. So as you can see, the problem is getting worse. Now tell me if you will, why would the antibiotic work so well for those three days? One those three days, I could eat ANYTHING. And let me tell you, I haven't had that much of a break in a very long time. This is not a coincidence. The Flagyl was clearly doing something, which points to bacteria. You're more educated on this, so maybe you can shed some light on the matter. Also, why would all medications cause intense gas and diarrhea? If you say something negative or humorous, use a graemlin!!!







Thanks,Darlene







P.S. Rita Lucy: Sorry you had that reaction to the ginger. I'll try to e-mail you soon and we can compare.


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

THANK YOU, Bonnie, for caring enough to try to straighten this out.







You are very thoughtful!! As you know, I've had a bad week. The gas condition is worsening all of the time, so it's very depressing. I'll e-mail you soon, Bonnie.Flux, since you care enough to post and try to help, perhaps I shouldn't read into things and take things so personally. I'll confide in you and tell you what's been going on. When I went to the doctor last week, he decided to try one more antibiotic, and he gave me a low dose of Flagyl (one 250 mg. pill per day for two weeks). By the second day, nearly all of the excess gas was gone. I went from 50 plus episodes per day to maybe 10 or less. I felt GREAT for exactly three days, then everything came back with a vengeance. I kept taking one Flagyl per day for seven days total, and then I ended up with the worst rumbling and gas that I've ever had in my whole life. I stopped taking the antibiotic (the last pill I took was on Monday) and it's been a nightmare ever since. The antibiotic seemed to be causing distress, so I would never consider taking it EVER again. In fact, I can't even tolerate any meds at this point, not even regular Tylenol over the counter. So as you can see, the problem is getting worse. Now tell me if you will, why would the antibiotic work so well for those three days? One those three days, I could eat ANYTHING. And let me tell you, I haven't had that much of a break in a very long time. This is not a coincidence. The Flagyl was clearly doing something, which points to bacteria. You're more educated on this, so maybe you can shed some light on the matter. Also, why would all medications cause intense gas and diarrhea? If you say something negative or humorous, use a graemlin!!!







Thanks,Darlene







P.S. Rita Lucy: Sorry you had that reaction to the ginger. I'll try to e-mail you soon and we can compare.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:I could eat ANYTHING. And let me tell you, I haven't had that much of a break in a very long time. This is not a coincidence. The Flagyl was clearly doing something, which points to


Well, thatï¿½s not *proof* is wasnï¿½t a coincidence. If you toss a penny, would you think something of it to get heads six times in a row?Of course, the other possibility is that metronidazole did make a difference and that it began killing the *gas-consuming* bacteria more effectively than the gas-producing ones, leaving with you more gas. Another reason why antibiotics to treat bacterially produced gas is not a great option.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:I could eat ANYTHING. And let me tell you, I haven't had that much of a break in a very long time. This is not a coincidence. The Flagyl was clearly doing something, which points to


Well, thatï¿½s not *proof* is wasnï¿½t a coincidence. If you toss a penny, would you think something of it to get heads six times in a row?Of course, the other possibility is that metronidazole did make a difference and that it began killing the *gas-consuming* bacteria more effectively than the gas-producing ones, leaving with you more gas. Another reason why antibiotics to treat bacterially produced gas is not a great option.


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Flux, I haven't had a good day for over 3 years at least. So it would be like tossing 1,000 pennies and having them all turn out the same. No exaggeration!! Do you know anything other than acidophilus that can straighten out a bacterial imbalance? I'm getting desperate.Thanks!Darlene


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Flux, I haven't had a good day for over 3 years at least. So it would be like tossing 1,000 pennies and having them all turn out the same. No exaggeration!! Do you know anything other than acidophilus that can straighten out a bacterial imbalance? I'm getting desperate.Thanks!Darlene


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## careena (Nov 3, 2001)

You can DEFINATELY, ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY pass gas while you are sleeping. I sleep next to a husband who does this ALL THE TIME. If letting out poofs of air from your anus while you're SNORING isn't proof enough, I don't know what is.


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## careena (Nov 3, 2001)

You can DEFINATELY, ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY pass gas while you are sleeping. I sleep next to a husband who does this ALL THE TIME. If letting out poofs of air from your anus while you're SNORING isn't proof enough, I don't know what is.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:You can DEFINATELY, ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY pass gas while you are sleeping


Is that all?


> quoteo you know anything other than acidophilus that can straighten out a bacterial imbalance? I'm getting desperate.


You could jump right to the hydrogen breath tests (lactose, fructose, sucrose and lactulose for comparison.) to see what you are absorbing and what you are not. Will your doctor be willing to do that? That could tell you whether you need to limit just some carbs or all of them. Another option is to try to flush out the gut bacteria by regularly taking Miralax (probably by building up to a huge dose before you go to bed).


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:You can DEFINATELY, ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY pass gas while you are sleeping


Is that all?


> quoteo you know anything other than acidophilus that can straighten out a bacterial imbalance? I'm getting desperate.


You could jump right to the hydrogen breath tests (lactose, fructose, sucrose and lactulose for comparison.) to see what you are absorbing and what you are not. Will your doctor be willing to do that? That could tell you whether you need to limit just some carbs or all of them. Another option is to try to flush out the gut bacteria by regularly taking Miralax (probably by building up to a huge dose before you go to bed).


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Darlene, just some info for you. http://www.niddk.nih.gov/health/digest/pub...gas.htm#treated


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Darlene, just some info for you. http://www.niddk.nih.gov/health/digest/pub...gas.htm#treated


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## TCee123 (Jan 24, 2002)

I don't understand why Helping Always' unrefined diet was disregarded. Whether or not he was wrong scientifically doesn't matter. It worked for him. I for one, would like to know more about the diet and regimen he followed. Maybe it might help someone else.


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## TCee123 (Jan 24, 2002)

I don't understand why Helping Always' unrefined diet was disregarded. Whether or not he was wrong scientifically doesn't matter. It worked for him. I for one, would like to know more about the diet and regimen he followed. Maybe it might help someone else.


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

flux and darlene, I am so glad that the two of you have sorted things out.







It really takes maturity to do that.







Flux - We are all looking forward to seeing more graemlins from you





















. It will be like giving yourself a free makeover














. You already have the personality (sense of humor). Ok maybe I am overdoing the graemlins. It wouldn't let me post because I had more than 8 graemlins. Please insert them wherever you think you my post would have sounded better with them


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

flux and darlene, I am so glad that the two of you have sorted things out.







It really takes maturity to do that.







Flux - We are all looking forward to seeing more graemlins from you





















. It will be like giving yourself a free makeover














. You already have the personality (sense of humor). Ok maybe I am overdoing the graemlins. It wouldn't let me post because I had more than 8 graemlins. Please insert them wherever you think you my post would have sounded better with them


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Thanks for the information, Eric. I'm going to print it out and read it thoroughly. Do you know of anywhere on the internet that would have a good diet to follow, let's say a well balanced diet that would be a low gas diet? I know that I eat too many carbohydrates, but those are the safety foods to prevent painful IBS attacks with D. I try to avoid fatty foods and lettuce and all those trigger foods. Carbs always seemed safe. Heck, I don't know what to eat anymore. And I still believe that less food in your body can cause excess gas. I try to eat 6 small meals a day, but I don't think that I eat the right foods or enough food at each sitting. Anyway, thanks a bunch, Eric.







Flux, I did mention those tests to my doctor and he just kept saying NO. As for the antidepressant, the bacteria probably ARE depressed, since the rest of me is depressed.







But I think his thoery is that my system is hypersensitive to gas, and he was hoping to help my body function better. You know, the brain/gut connection. Actually, he gave me a starter kit of Zoloft back in December, and he was very frustrated with me last week when he found out that I didn't even try it. Right now, it seems like all meds are causing adverse reactions, and I don't want to feel worse.LOL Careena. I agree with you. However, mine isn't that easy. I wake up with discomfort and it gets trapped. I wish that I could fart without interruption of sleep.







Bonnie, thanks again! I'll email you soon. There may be a short interruption in my internt service this weekend. We have the cable internet, and they're working on a transition. Hope it doesn't take too long. Darlene


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Thanks for the information, Eric. I'm going to print it out and read it thoroughly. Do you know of anywhere on the internet that would have a good diet to follow, let's say a well balanced diet that would be a low gas diet? I know that I eat too many carbohydrates, but those are the safety foods to prevent painful IBS attacks with D. I try to avoid fatty foods and lettuce and all those trigger foods. Carbs always seemed safe. Heck, I don't know what to eat anymore. And I still believe that less food in your body can cause excess gas. I try to eat 6 small meals a day, but I don't think that I eat the right foods or enough food at each sitting. Anyway, thanks a bunch, Eric.







Flux, I did mention those tests to my doctor and he just kept saying NO. As for the antidepressant, the bacteria probably ARE depressed, since the rest of me is depressed.







But I think his thoery is that my system is hypersensitive to gas, and he was hoping to help my body function better. You know, the brain/gut connection. Actually, he gave me a starter kit of Zoloft back in December, and he was very frustrated with me last week when he found out that I didn't even try it. Right now, it seems like all meds are causing adverse reactions, and I don't want to feel worse.LOL Careena. I agree with you. However, mine isn't that easy. I wake up with discomfort and it gets trapped. I wish that I could fart without interruption of sleep.







Bonnie, thanks again! I'll email you soon. There may be a short interruption in my internt service this weekend. We have the cable internet, and they're working on a transition. Hope it doesn't take too long. Darlene


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Darlene, take your time over the e-mail. Besides I think everything which was to be discussed by email was discussed here.







That is very strange- your doc not letting you do even breath tests. Can't you insist on them? .I used to wait for my doc to tell me which tests to do but when I came to the BB and discovered all these tests which could be done. I just told my doc- these are the tests I need done- and he agreed. I would hate being in a position where I couldn't get tests done if I wanted to. Are you comfortable with your doc? If you are resisting anti d's and his real goal is to determine whether it is hypersensitivity or excessive gas, he could do an abdominal x-ray(flat ).Of course if you have hypersensitivity along with excessive gas, it could make the problem much worse. But I fail to see how the problem of excessive gas will go away by taking anti d's. Instead of farting 50 times a day you might fart 25 times. Because you keep saying you pass huge amounts fifty times a dayBTW Why are you resisting anti d's? It seems you are resisting your doc's advice. That makes me ask you again- are you comfortable with your doc?


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Darlene, take your time over the e-mail. Besides I think everything which was to be discussed by email was discussed here.







That is very strange- your doc not letting you do even breath tests. Can't you insist on them? .I used to wait for my doc to tell me which tests to do but when I came to the BB and discovered all these tests which could be done. I just told my doc- these are the tests I need done- and he agreed. I would hate being in a position where I couldn't get tests done if I wanted to. Are you comfortable with your doc? If you are resisting anti d's and his real goal is to determine whether it is hypersensitivity or excessive gas, he could do an abdominal x-ray(flat ).Of course if you have hypersensitivity along with excessive gas, it could make the problem much worse. But I fail to see how the problem of excessive gas will go away by taking anti d's. Instead of farting 50 times a day you might fart 25 times. Because you keep saying you pass huge amounts fifty times a dayBTW Why are you resisting anti d's? It seems you are resisting your doc's advice. That makes me ask you again- are you comfortable with your doc?


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## careena (Nov 3, 2001)

> quote:Is that all?


Yes, that is all.


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## careena (Nov 3, 2001)

> quote:Is that all?


Yes, that is all.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:And I still believe that less food in your body can cause excess gas.


This is







, but there is clearly good reason to believe you have excess gas. And everyone here knows that I believe excess gas complaints are largely psychological: the result of misattributing symptoms that are unrelated to gas as being gas.. I believe that excess gas is a *relatively rare * problem.


> quote:t could make the problem much worse. But I fail to see how the problem of excessive gas will go away by taking anti d's


There is nothing to fail to see; it simply can't do that.


> quote:let's say a well balanced diet that would be a low gas diet?


The only absolutely low gas diet (for bacteriallly produced gas, that is) that is well-balanced would have to be instantly absorable..that leaves you with Ensure and beyond that alternative methods of feeding since you cannot drink the instantly absorbable stuff like Vivonex. That's just the way it is, sorry to say.


> quote:Of course if you have hypersensitivity along with excessive gas, it could make the problem much worse.


Agreed having IBS and excess gas is a double whammy..but it makes sense to treat both problems not just one and ignore the other..


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:And I still believe that less food in your body can cause excess gas.


This is







, but there is clearly good reason to believe you have excess gas. And everyone here knows that I believe excess gas complaints are largely psychological: the result of misattributing symptoms that are unrelated to gas as being gas.. I believe that excess gas is a *relatively rare * problem.


> quote:t could make the problem much worse. But I fail to see how the problem of excessive gas will go away by taking anti d's


There is nothing to fail to see; it simply can't do that.


> quote:let's say a well balanced diet that would be a low gas diet?


The only absolutely low gas diet (for bacteriallly produced gas, that is) that is well-balanced would have to be instantly absorable..that leaves you with Ensure and beyond that alternative methods of feeding since you cannot drink the instantly absorbable stuff like Vivonex. That's just the way it is, sorry to say.


> quote:Of course if you have hypersensitivity along with excessive gas, it could make the problem much worse.


Agreed having IBS and excess gas is a double whammy..but it makes sense to treat both problems not just one and ignore the other..


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Yes, Flux, I do get pain from the gas at times. Good example here, when I had a sigmoidoscopy a few years ago, you know how they insert air in there while they scope? Well, afterwards the doctor said that I will have excess gas, but it would pass within 30 minutes. He instructed for me to go for a walk to help expel it. Let me tell you, that gas would NOT come out. I spent all day in misery with some relief that night by lying down and forcing it out. The doctor called several days later to see how things were going, and I told him about it. By the way, this was a GI specialist. He came to the conclusion that my body was very symptomatic and hypersensitive. He said that there was no where else for the gas to go but OUT, and he couldn't understand why it didn't expel on its own a lot sooner. So yes, I would say that hypersensitivity is a big problem.


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Yes, Flux, I do get pain from the gas at times. Good example here, when I had a sigmoidoscopy a few years ago, you know how they insert air in there while they scope? Well, afterwards the doctor said that I will have excess gas, but it would pass within 30 minutes. He instructed for me to go for a walk to help expel it. Let me tell you, that gas would NOT come out. I spent all day in misery with some relief that night by lying down and forcing it out. The doctor called several days later to see how things were going, and I told him about it. By the way, this was a GI specialist. He came to the conclusion that my body was very symptomatic and hypersensitive. He said that there was no where else for the gas to go but OUT, and he couldn't understand why it didn't expel on its own a lot sooner. So yes, I would say that hypersensitivity is a big problem.


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Darlene, you didn't answer my question about whether whether you trust your doctor or not. I feel one of the reasons you are feeling totally hopeless because you don't trust himDarlene, all those things you e-mailed me about, I would prefer them to be discussed here. Ofcourse it is up to you but I have explained my reasons in my e-mail


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Darlene, you didn't answer my question about whether whether you trust your doctor or not. I feel one of the reasons you are feeling totally hopeless because you don't trust himDarlene, all those things you e-mailed me about, I would prefer them to be discussed here. Ofcourse it is up to you but I have explained my reasons in my e-mail


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Oops, sorry Bonnie. I forgot to answer the question about my doctor. Well, I would say that I trust him as much as I trust any other doctor. Doctors listen to problems all day long, and when patients complain about gas, they really don't take it seriously enough. They consider it a minor annoyance and when you think about it, doctors really don't understand what patients go through day after day, night after night. We go in there and maybe get 5 or 10 minutes of their time, they write out a prescription, and send us on our way. Actually, the doctor that I have now listens more than any doctor that I have ever had. This doctor has done the most extensive testing than any doctor that I've had, but he can't possibly relate to the trouble that I am having with this gas. How can anyone really understand unless they are actually going through it? Ok, I'd prefer posting here too. Maybe we can help others with our efforts. Hope we don't bore everybody.














Do you want me to list my typical diet on here, just like I did on the e-mail? Well, my bad luck continues. I broke a tooth last night, so I'm forced to go to the dentist this morning. OUCH!Darlene


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Oops, sorry Bonnie. I forgot to answer the question about my doctor. Well, I would say that I trust him as much as I trust any other doctor. Doctors listen to problems all day long, and when patients complain about gas, they really don't take it seriously enough. They consider it a minor annoyance and when you think about it, doctors really don't understand what patients go through day after day, night after night. We go in there and maybe get 5 or 10 minutes of their time, they write out a prescription, and send us on our way. Actually, the doctor that I have now listens more than any doctor that I have ever had. This doctor has done the most extensive testing than any doctor that I've had, but he can't possibly relate to the trouble that I am having with this gas. How can anyone really understand unless they are actually going through it? Ok, I'd prefer posting here too. Maybe we can help others with our efforts. Hope we don't bore everybody.














Do you want me to list my typical diet on here, just like I did on the e-mail? Well, my bad luck continues. I broke a tooth last night, so I'm forced to go to the dentist this morning. OUCH!Darlene


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Yes, ok, list the diet. I might not have that much to contribute but let's see. Maybe someone else will.


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Yes, ok, list the diet. I might not have that much to contribute but let's see. Maybe someone else will.


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## abcdefg (Apr 1, 2001)

Darlene, it is very hard to get doctor to understand you aren't talking about normal gas which of course everyone has. (I have your problem but mine has always been very foul/room-clearing leaking all day). (And to Flux, yes it is true, please leave me alone).Honestly, having tried it, and a good long try too, I would stay away from Zoloft. Been awhile but I think one of the listed adverse effects (see www.medscape.com drug search) was causing additional gas. Please keep trying. You are helping a lot of people who are reading these posts.


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## abcdefg (Apr 1, 2001)

Darlene, it is very hard to get doctor to understand you aren't talking about normal gas which of course everyone has. (I have your problem but mine has always been very foul/room-clearing leaking all day). (And to Flux, yes it is true, please leave me alone).Honestly, having tried it, and a good long try too, I would stay away from Zoloft. Been awhile but I think one of the listed adverse effects (see www.medscape.com drug search) was causing additional gas. Please keep trying. You are helping a lot of people who are reading these posts.


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

BTW How did you break your tooth? That sounds like an interesting story! Hope you are feeling alright


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

BTW How did you break your tooth? That sounds like an interesting story! Hope you are feeling alright


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Well I have time now but I won't later so I am going to postDarlene, one of the major problems I have is you drinking ginger ale all day long. It may have high fructose corn syrup and if you are fructose intolerant it will cause problems when you are having a lot of it. And even if it does not have fructose, you are getting too many carbohydrates into yourself with the sugar in it. It is true that a high carbohydrate diet causes gas. I realized that when I did the fecal fat absorption test where I hd to have a high amount of fat. To cut down on calories I gave up carbohydrates and I had virtually no gas those three four days so I would eliminate that first of all. And I assume you are taking it because of the ginger but if it doesn't help you why bother to have it .When I eliminated the two slices of bread I used to have daily I noticed it lead to a substantial decreas in gas. So you could try replacing the toast in the morning with just poached eggs. IF i were you I would go without ginger alse and bread for a week and see what it does.The other thing I can think of you say your gas is trapped. Does the method you use to eliminate gas involve swallowing air in the process? I would suggest you don't try artificially eliminating gas and just see what happens for a day unless you feel you are close to exploding or something


> quote:There is nothing to fail to see; it simply can't do that.


What I was thinking was this- Anti d's could stabilize the intestinal transit or atleast slow down the accelerated transit which happens during stress and prevent loads of undigested food stuff being delivered to the colon and thus prevent this. I know this is just theory but not that implausible


> quote:but it makes sense to treat both problems not just one and ignore the other..


Agreed.


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Well I have time now but I won't later so I am going to postDarlene, one of the major problems I have is you drinking ginger ale all day long. It may have high fructose corn syrup and if you are fructose intolerant it will cause problems when you are having a lot of it. And even if it does not have fructose, you are getting too many carbohydrates into yourself with the sugar in it. It is true that a high carbohydrate diet causes gas. I realized that when I did the fecal fat absorption test where I hd to have a high amount of fat. To cut down on calories I gave up carbohydrates and I had virtually no gas those three four days so I would eliminate that first of all. And I assume you are taking it because of the ginger but if it doesn't help you why bother to have it .When I eliminated the two slices of bread I used to have daily I noticed it lead to a substantial decreas in gas. So you could try replacing the toast in the morning with just poached eggs. IF i were you I would go without ginger alse and bread for a week and see what it does.The other thing I can think of you say your gas is trapped. Does the method you use to eliminate gas involve swallowing air in the process? I would suggest you don't try artificially eliminating gas and just see what happens for a day unless you feel you are close to exploding or something


> quote:There is nothing to fail to see; it simply can't do that.


What I was thinking was this- Anti d's could stabilize the intestinal transit or atleast slow down the accelerated transit which happens during stress and prevent loads of undigested food stuff being delivered to the colon and thus prevent this. I know this is just theory but not that implausible


> quote:but it makes sense to treat both problems not just one and ignore the other..


Agreed.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quoteoes the method you use to eliminate gas involve swallowing air in the process?


You mean dry swallow? Why would want to do that? Wouldn't that it add more gas to the mix..actually that would only be if the stomach and LES permitted it...but either way I don't see how it could help.


> quote:Anti d's could stabilize the intestinal transit or atleast slow down the accelerated transit which happens during stress and prevent loads of undigested food stuff being delivered to the colon and thus prevent this.


I don't know how to predict what anti-Ds are going to to do transit or intestinal motility in general (without trying them). They are complex drugs and the body can respond to them in complex ways..I am not sure that stress is going to deliver a significant increase in undigested food to the colon in any case..there is already a significant amount delivered in a gut that works perfectly.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quoteoes the method you use to eliminate gas involve swallowing air in the process?


You mean dry swallow? Why would want to do that? Wouldn't that it add more gas to the mix..actually that would only be if the stomach and LES permitted it...but either way I don't see how it could help.


> quote:Anti d's could stabilize the intestinal transit or atleast slow down the accelerated transit which happens during stress and prevent loads of undigested food stuff being delivered to the colon and thus prevent this.


I don't know how to predict what anti-Ds are going to to do transit or intestinal motility in general (without trying them). They are complex drugs and the body can respond to them in complex ways..I am not sure that stress is going to deliver a significant increase in undigested food to the colon in any case..there is already a significant amount delivered in a gut that works perfectly.


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

> quote:You mean dry swallow? Why would want to do that? Wouldn't that it add more gas to the mix..actually that would only be if the stomach and LES permitted it...but either way I don't see how it could help.


Yeah I mean dry swallow. For e.g You could basically take in a lot of air if you leave your mouth open as you ,say, rock yourself to force yourself pass gas. So I am asking her to become aware if she is taking in air as she artificially forces herself to pass gas and to stop that if she is indeed doing that . The reason I mentioned it because she says the gas starts building up as soon as she forces it out. So I wonder if she is taking in air from one end as she tries to release it from the other,Just an idea.


> quote:I don't know how to predict what anti-Ds are going to to do transit or intestinal motility in general (without trying them). They


I can tell you anti d's affect motility. I used to have diarrhea but I rarely have it since I started on them. But one would have to try them to see howa particular one would affect one individually


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

> quote:You mean dry swallow? Why would want to do that? Wouldn't that it add more gas to the mix..actually that would only be if the stomach and LES permitted it...but either way I don't see how it could help.


Yeah I mean dry swallow. For e.g You could basically take in a lot of air if you leave your mouth open as you ,say, rock yourself to force yourself pass gas. So I am asking her to become aware if she is taking in air as she artificially forces herself to pass gas and to stop that if she is indeed doing that . The reason I mentioned it because she says the gas starts building up as soon as she forces it out. So I wonder if she is taking in air from one end as she tries to release it from the other,Just an idea.


> quote:I don't know how to predict what anti-Ds are going to to do transit or intestinal motility in general (without trying them). They


I can tell you anti d's affect motility. I used to have diarrhea but I rarely have it since I started on them. But one would have to try them to see howa particular one would affect one individually


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Hi,No, my broken tooth isn't too interesting.







I had to wait for a long time just to get it medicated, and then I need to go back next week for a root canal and crown.







Bonnie, you brought up a very good point about the fructose. I checked some things that I eat, and they are loaded with it. The gingerale, applesauce, even the yogurt. So I'll check all labels and give it up for a week, and also try to cut down on the bread. I will also be more aware of the air-swallowing while trying to get rid of gas. You know, that is a very possible theory that you mentioned! I still believe that the anxiety over this causes more gas too, more air swallowing, etc. For everyone else who is reading and who is interested, I'll post my typical diet that I had originally e-mailed Bonnie. I previously mentioned that it is very bland due to having so many IBS triggers.Breakfast:2 slices of buttered toast1 cup of instant coffee (to help get things moving, you know what I mean)Morning snack:Applesauce or nutri-grain bar or granola barLuncheanut butter/jelly sandwich or tuna fish sandwichpotato chips or cookieDinner:Fish or chicken or something blandRice or potatoesVegetable like cooked carrots or green beansApplesauceSnack:Crackers and hot teaAnd I mentioned to Bonnie that I drink Gingerale throughout the day along with water. She suggested in a previous posting that the high fructose could be a culprit, so I will now give up all foods that contain that. I thought the gingerale was fine, since I let the carbonation out of it before drinking it. But of course, the high amount of fructose could be a problem. So I may be dealing with a food allergy on top of IBS. It's really a challenge to find something to eat that won't be a trigger.Sorry this post is so long!! Are you guys awake out there?







Thanks (if you're still reading)







DarleneP.S. If anyone has any suggestions, feel free to post.


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Hi,No, my broken tooth isn't too interesting.







I had to wait for a long time just to get it medicated, and then I need to go back next week for a root canal and crown.







Bonnie, you brought up a very good point about the fructose. I checked some things that I eat, and they are loaded with it. The gingerale, applesauce, even the yogurt. So I'll check all labels and give it up for a week, and also try to cut down on the bread. I will also be more aware of the air-swallowing while trying to get rid of gas. You know, that is a very possible theory that you mentioned! I still believe that the anxiety over this causes more gas too, more air swallowing, etc. For everyone else who is reading and who is interested, I'll post my typical diet that I had originally e-mailed Bonnie. I previously mentioned that it is very bland due to having so many IBS triggers.Breakfast:2 slices of buttered toast1 cup of instant coffee (to help get things moving, you know what I mean)Morning snack:Applesauce or nutri-grain bar or granola barLuncheanut butter/jelly sandwich or tuna fish sandwichpotato chips or cookieDinner:Fish or chicken or something blandRice or potatoesVegetable like cooked carrots or green beansApplesauceSnack:Crackers and hot teaAnd I mentioned to Bonnie that I drink Gingerale throughout the day along with water. She suggested in a previous posting that the high fructose could be a culprit, so I will now give up all foods that contain that. I thought the gingerale was fine, since I let the carbonation out of it before drinking it. But of course, the high amount of fructose could be a problem. So I may be dealing with a food allergy on top of IBS. It's really a challenge to find something to eat that won't be a trigger.Sorry this post is so long!! Are you guys awake out there?







Thanks (if you're still reading)







DarleneP.S. If anyone has any suggestions, feel free to post.


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

> quote:So I may be dealing with a food allergy


Just for your info: Fructose Intolerance is not a food allergy. It's more a case of malabsorption so that when the malabsorbed fructose finally gets to the colon all the gas producing bacteria feed off of it and produce gas. So if you have a fructose intolerance problem plus lots of gas producing bacteria, the problem gets magnified. Anyway if eliminating fructose does the trick let me know







. I have fructose intolerance and the main place I was getting fructose from was bread. I eliminated that and my gas was reduced substantially. Ofcourse, when I was having bread I could have been reacting to any of the other ingredients of bread.Ouch, a root canal!


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

> quote:So I may be dealing with a food allergy


Just for your info: Fructose Intolerance is not a food allergy. It's more a case of malabsorption so that when the malabsorbed fructose finally gets to the colon all the gas producing bacteria feed off of it and produce gas. So if you have a fructose intolerance problem plus lots of gas producing bacteria, the problem gets magnified. Anyway if eliminating fructose does the trick let me know







. I have fructose intolerance and the main place I was getting fructose from was bread. I eliminated that and my gas was reduced substantially. Ofcourse, when I was having bread I could have been reacting to any of the other ingredients of bread.Ouch, a root canal!


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Double post!


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Double post!


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Thanks for the info., Bonnie. I buy bakery bread, and it doesn't have fructose listed in it, but the Home Pride white bread that I buy the kids does contain it. Did you give up bread entirely, or do you buy a special bread? Also, what do you drink besides water? I can't seem to tolerate juices too well, so right now it is either tea or water.







I miss my gingerale already.







I also noticed that the Altoid mints that I eat every so often contain guess what? Yep, more fructose. Also the Mentos mints and also the canned fruit. Oh boy, this is interesting. I'll keep you posted. Thanks.Darlene


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Thanks for the info., Bonnie. I buy bakery bread, and it doesn't have fructose listed in it, but the Home Pride white bread that I buy the kids does contain it. Did you give up bread entirely, or do you buy a special bread? Also, what do you drink besides water? I can't seem to tolerate juices too well, so right now it is either tea or water.







I miss my gingerale already.







I also noticed that the Altoid mints that I eat every so often contain guess what? Yep, more fructose. Also the Mentos mints and also the canned fruit. Oh boy, this is interesting. I'll keep you posted. Thanks.Darlene


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Isn't it amazing where all fructose creeps in.I haven't given up bread completely but on the days I teach I avoid it.I don't think I could ever give it up completely. Since I teach only part time, I get my fill of bread.







. However my symptoms were never as bad as yours


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Isn't it amazing where all fructose creeps in.I haven't given up bread completely but on the days I teach I avoid it.I don't think I could ever give it up completely. Since I teach only part time, I get my fill of bread.







. However my symptoms were never as bad as yours


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Darlene, just so you know Heather is in ask the expert forum for questions on foods for you as a resourse you can use.Ginger ale all day long could really be a part of the problem. Fructose as well as carbonation and some other chemical reasons why it may be bugging you and increasing gas, there is a culprit you should eliminate to see if it helps. You may also want to try some easier things to digest in the mourning. I understand the coffee,







and toast is good, but coffee and granola maybe a little rougher then you might want.Other then Heathers cookbook for IBS she has a new one out and I really feel you would benefit from that book in helping you with all this. Just fyi.


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Darlene, just so you know Heather is in ask the expert forum for questions on foods for you as a resourse you can use.Ginger ale all day long could really be a part of the problem. Fructose as well as carbonation and some other chemical reasons why it may be bugging you and increasing gas, there is a culprit you should eliminate to see if it helps. You may also want to try some easier things to digest in the mourning. I understand the coffee,







and toast is good, but coffee and granola maybe a little rougher then you might want.Other then Heathers cookbook for IBS she has a new one out and I really feel you would benefit from that book in helping you with all this. Just fyi.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:You could basically take in a lot of air if you leave your mouth open as you ,say, rock yourself to force yourself pass gas.


What?







Are you joking us? Do you think you can breathe this way?


> quote.S. If anyone has any suggestions, feel free to post.


Did I mention fasting for two whole days?


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:You could basically take in a lot of air if you leave your mouth open as you ,say, rock yourself to force yourself pass gas.


What?







Are you joking us? Do you think you can breathe this way?


> quote.S. If anyone has any suggestions, feel free to post.


Did I mention fasting for two whole days?


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

> quote:What? Are you joking us? Do you think you can breathe this way?


Flux this is between me and darlene







. I didn't bring up her method of eliminating gas as she hasn't disclosed it on the thread. Rocking was just an example of an artificial way of trying to get rid of gas. But if you are all stressed out while trying to artificially eliminate gas, you can sigh, even hyperventilate and take in air. Ok my husband always says I am very creative. And you and he would get along well right?


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

> quote:What? Are you joking us? Do you think you can breathe this way?


Flux this is between me and darlene







. I didn't bring up her method of eliminating gas as she hasn't disclosed it on the thread. Rocking was just an example of an artificial way of trying to get rid of gas. But if you are all stressed out while trying to artificially eliminate gas, you can sigh, even hyperventilate and take in air. Ok my husband always says I am very creative. And you and he would get along well right?


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## Blair (Dec 15, 1998)

Eliminating Wheat for awhile is a smart idea.


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## Blair (Dec 15, 1998)

Eliminating Wheat for awhile is a smart idea.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:you can sigh, even hyperventilate and take in air.


This makes no sense. How does sighing and hyperventilating have to do with putting air in one's gut?


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:you can sigh, even hyperventilate and take in air.


This makes no sense. How does sighing and hyperventilating have to do with putting air in one's gut?


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Ok flux let us admit no one knows how air gets into the gut. And I don't know what LES is. It just seems intuitive to me. It seems that when I sigh or do some rapid shallow breathing and stop breathing and I start breathing again someof the air is at least going into the digestive tract rather than the respiratory tract. That is why I thought of the possibility. Beyond that I have no proof.







I haven't read scientific journals which describe this. I can do a dry swallow and get air to go into my digestive tract. Can you? Maybe then you could try different sighs and see if it results in air going into your digestive tract. All I know is I can produce it in myself. maybe my facial structure is such that I can do it. Who knows?! You have to be careful saying anything around this guy. You soon get pushed into a corner


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Ok flux let us admit no one knows how air gets into the gut. And I don't know what LES is. It just seems intuitive to me. It seems that when I sigh or do some rapid shallow breathing and stop breathing and I start breathing again someof the air is at least going into the digestive tract rather than the respiratory tract. That is why I thought of the possibility. Beyond that I have no proof.







I haven't read scientific journals which describe this. I can do a dry swallow and get air to go into my digestive tract. Can you? Maybe then you could try different sighs and see if it results in air going into your digestive tract. All I know is I can produce it in myself. maybe my facial structure is such that I can do it. Who knows?! You have to be careful saying anything around this guy. You soon get pushed into a corner


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Additionally,maybe if Darlene can imagine air being taken in in those moments, it is a real possibility for her too. Maybe flux, if you can't imagine it , air swallowing by these methods is not a real possibility for you. I don't know what to say flux. i am feeling real defensive. I think you would love me to do research on it and write a thesis on it???!!!


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Additionally,maybe if Darlene can imagine air being taken in in those moments, it is a real possibility for her too. Maybe flux, if you can't imagine it , air swallowing by these methods is not a real possibility for you. I don't know what to say flux. i am feeling real defensive. I think you would love me to do research on it and write a thesis on it???!!!


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## overitnow (Nov 25, 2001)

Darlene-My appologies if this has already been suggested...I couldn't get through all five pages. If you would like a fairly comprehensive testing for food and chemical alergies, you might consider seeing a Naturopath. They will test your muscular response to a series of foods and will be able to provide you with a list of ingredients to which you show a response. They will also help you with cleansing your system and know all of the substitute foodstuffs that you can use. As an example, if you show wheat sensitivities, you can usually avoid that with spelt and kamut breads (these are older grains, very similar to wheat). They should also be able to provide you with information on fasting and diet. Good luck.


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## overitnow (Nov 25, 2001)

Darlene-My appologies if this has already been suggested...I couldn't get through all five pages. If you would like a fairly comprehensive testing for food and chemical alergies, you might consider seeing a Naturopath. They will test your muscular response to a series of foods and will be able to provide you with a list of ingredients to which you show a response. They will also help you with cleansing your system and know all of the substitute foodstuffs that you can use. As an example, if you show wheat sensitivities, you can usually avoid that with spelt and kamut breads (these are older grains, very similar to wheat). They should also be able to provide you with information on fasting and diet. Good luck.


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## GailSusan (Dec 23, 2000)

Is the happy marketer gone? Good! Flux, quick question for you before I take my evening dose of Zelnorm (which may not CURE, but definitely eliminates 99% of my IBS-C symptoms). My mom has not been able to eat any food for several weeks now and is living entirely on Ensure. She was wondering how long someone can live on Ensure. She drinks about 4 cans a day and her blood work shows no signs of malnutrition. She's 89 years old and we are still trying to get a definitive diagnosis for why she can't eat (seems to be converging on neuralgia of the mouth). Your opinion on this would be appreciated. This isn't unrelated to the post topic as she continues to have gas problems even with just taking the Ensure. The only things she takes by mouth are water and Ensure. Thanks.


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## GailSusan (Dec 23, 2000)

Is the happy marketer gone? Good! Flux, quick question for you before I take my evening dose of Zelnorm (which may not CURE, but definitely eliminates 99% of my IBS-C symptoms). My mom has not been able to eat any food for several weeks now and is living entirely on Ensure. She was wondering how long someone can live on Ensure. She drinks about 4 cans a day and her blood work shows no signs of malnutrition. She's 89 years old and we are still trying to get a definitive diagnosis for why she can't eat (seems to be converging on neuralgia of the mouth). Your opinion on this would be appreciated. This isn't unrelated to the post topic as she continues to have gas problems even with just taking the Ensure. The only things she takes by mouth are water and Ensure. Thanks.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:And I don't know what LES is


Lower esophageal sphincter, a part of the esophagus that acts a valve between it and the stomach.


> quote:someof the air is at least going into the digestive tract rather than the respiratory tract.


How do you know that? Can you see it?


> quote:I can do a dry swallow and get air to go into my digestive tract.


Yes, of course, because there is dead space air in the pharynx and that (or some of it) will get trapped in the swallowing bolus. But we don't know much or have an assured way of figuring it out. Besides, it is possible to detect and monitor dry swallows.


> quote:They will test your muscular response to a series of foods and will be able to provide you with a list of ingredients to which you show a response.


While food allergies have nothing to do with this discussion, it is important to know this is a


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:And I don't know what LES is


Lower esophageal sphincter, a part of the esophagus that acts a valve between it and the stomach.


> quote:someof the air is at least going into the digestive tract rather than the respiratory tract.


How do you know that? Can you see it?


> quote:I can do a dry swallow and get air to go into my digestive tract.


Yes, of course, because there is dead space air in the pharynx and that (or some of it) will get trapped in the swallowing bolus. But we don't know much or have an assured way of figuring it out. Besides, it is possible to detect and monitor dry swallows.


> quote:They will test your muscular response to a series of foods and will be able to provide you with a list of ingredients to which you show a response.


While food allergies have nothing to do with this discussion, it is important to know this is a


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Thanks to everyone for their responses and suggestions. It really helps to get feedback from others. And I hope this thread is helping other people. There are a lot of good suggestions on here!Thanks, Eric! I'll get in touch with Heather.







Flux, I think you might have missed GailSusan's post last night. The two of you were apparently posting about the same time, and she has an important question for you about her mother. So please scroll back a little and see if you have any suggestions for her. I know you are pretty educated about those Ensure drinks. Gail, is she drinking the Ensure Plus? I know those are loaded with vitamins. Can she stomach a little bit of applesauce or have you tried any baby food? How about some mashed potatoes prepared very thin? Or a little bit of soup? Keep posting here and maybe we can help you.Bonnie and Flux: Oh boy, you guys, what am I gonna do with you two?!!







Well, Flux, you are outnumbered. I think that Bonnie has a good point about air swallowing. When I lie down to try to untrap the gas, I kind of roll around and get into different postions to try to expel it. Bonnie is thinking that maybe the anxiety of getting upset over the gas and doing all this rolling can be causing me to breathe different and I could be hurting myself more than helping. It's a possibility. It's a known fact that when people are anxious, that they swallow more air. I completely eliminated the gingerale yesterday. I'll keep everyone posted on the fructose reduction. It's not a fun test, but it's definitely worth a try. I wonder how long it would take to notice a difference.Hope I didn't miss any questions,Thanks.Darlene P.S. Oh yeah, almost forgot. Flux!! That hammering on my head really hurt. OUCH...







Well, if the fructose reduction doesn't help, maybe I'll give the 48 hour fast a try. Will you be around to pick me off the floor when I pass out from hunger?


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Thanks to everyone for their responses and suggestions. It really helps to get feedback from others. And I hope this thread is helping other people. There are a lot of good suggestions on here!Thanks, Eric! I'll get in touch with Heather.







Flux, I think you might have missed GailSusan's post last night. The two of you were apparently posting about the same time, and she has an important question for you about her mother. So please scroll back a little and see if you have any suggestions for her. I know you are pretty educated about those Ensure drinks. Gail, is she drinking the Ensure Plus? I know those are loaded with vitamins. Can she stomach a little bit of applesauce or have you tried any baby food? How about some mashed potatoes prepared very thin? Or a little bit of soup? Keep posting here and maybe we can help you.Bonnie and Flux: Oh boy, you guys, what am I gonna do with you two?!!







Well, Flux, you are outnumbered. I think that Bonnie has a good point about air swallowing. When I lie down to try to untrap the gas, I kind of roll around and get into different postions to try to expel it. Bonnie is thinking that maybe the anxiety of getting upset over the gas and doing all this rolling can be causing me to breathe different and I could be hurting myself more than helping. It's a possibility. It's a known fact that when people are anxious, that they swallow more air. I completely eliminated the gingerale yesterday. I'll keep everyone posted on the fructose reduction. It's not a fun test, but it's definitely worth a try. I wonder how long it would take to notice a difference.Hope I didn't miss any questions,Thanks.Darlene P.S. Oh yeah, almost forgot. Flux!! That hammering on my head really hurt. OUCH...







Well, if the fructose reduction doesn't help, maybe I'll give the 48 hour fast a try. Will you be around to pick me off the floor when I pass out from hunger?


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

> quote:How do you know that? Can you see it?


If I do it consciously, the air going down the digestive tract is just more painful. The reason I wanted to have this discussion on the board instead of by e-mail was to get flux's input. Now that I am getting it what do I do? I was being real defensive yesterday because of reasons I can't discuss on the board. Besides I wasn't sure if flux knew for a fact that what I was saying can't happen and I was just plain wrong. Frankly now that I am out of my defensive mode and I am not trying to justify it can happen, I can say I don't know that it can happem either. flux, are you saying absolutely, positively, definitely that swallowing air cannot happen when you are rolling around because of LES not permitting it to do that or you just don't know? darlene, are you counting your farts? I don't think it would require more than a couple of days to notice a difference if it is mainly the ginger ale. Anyway the best way to check this would be through the breath tests which flux recommended. As far as flux's input is concerned, darlene, you haven't heard the half of it. Ask him his thoughts on fructose intolerance. I am not sure why he recommended the breath tests since he feels that intolerances don't cause symptoms, it is the IBS which does


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

> quote:How do you know that? Can you see it?


If I do it consciously, the air going down the digestive tract is just more painful. The reason I wanted to have this discussion on the board instead of by e-mail was to get flux's input. Now that I am getting it what do I do? I was being real defensive yesterday because of reasons I can't discuss on the board. Besides I wasn't sure if flux knew for a fact that what I was saying can't happen and I was just plain wrong. Frankly now that I am out of my defensive mode and I am not trying to justify it can happen, I can say I don't know that it can happem either. flux, are you saying absolutely, positively, definitely that swallowing air cannot happen when you are rolling around because of LES not permitting it to do that or you just don't know? darlene, are you counting your farts? I don't think it would require more than a couple of days to notice a difference if it is mainly the ginger ale. Anyway the best way to check this would be through the breath tests which flux recommended. As far as flux's input is concerned, darlene, you haven't heard the half of it. Ask him his thoughts on fructose intolerance. I am not sure why he recommended the breath tests since he feels that intolerances don't cause symptoms, it is the IBS which does


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

RE: bonnie anf flux I don't know what I am going to do with you two?You are right- I rescued the two of you, now look who needs rescuing!


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

RE: bonnie anf flux I don't know what I am going to do with you two?You are right- I rescued the two of you, now look who needs rescuing!


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

CORRECTION: _____________________________________"While food allergies have nothing to do with this discussion, it is important to know this is a [hoax]" _____________________________________While I have had nothing in particular to add to this thread, It is important to know that it is a fact that this statement is utterly false. To accept it as factual and act accordingly would be to compromise the therapeutic outcomes of tens of thousands, nay millions, of patients. Since this was posted accompanied the following disclaimer: _____________________________________"I am not a doctor, nor do I work for profit in the medical/pharmacological field, but I have read scientific and medical texts, and have access to numerous sources of medical information that are not readily available to others. One should always consult a medical professional regarding advice received." ____________________________________...the pronouncement should be taken in the context of the disclaimer. Apparently the sources are not of sufficient scope to include up to date and accurate information on that particular referenced subject.In contrast I am a healthcare professional and a lifelong IBS sufferer, now in clinical rmission 6 years. I have been in healthcare for 31 years, and have access to and work with physicians and researchers in the field of food allergy, sensitivity, and intolerance hence my refutation of the posted indictment. If it were posted by a healthcare professional it would be unethical. Since it is not, the person is not technically bound by the ethical obligations and constraints which accompany health related professions. Such people, however, should be when they of their own accord assume the role of dispensing advice to people which can have an adverese effect on their treatment.If anyone wishes to learn about the so-called "hoax" from a qulaified authority on the subject, one could obtain a copy of this book for starters:"FOOD ALLERGIES AND FOOD INTOLERANCE: THE COMPLETE GUIDE TO THEIR IDENTIFICTION AND TREATMENT", Professor Jonathan Brostoff (M.D.. Allergy, Immunology and Environmental Medicine, Kings' College, London)http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/089...r=2-1/102-64875 08-3420903[/URL]Other books by Professor B:Books by: brostoff jonathan http://www.greenleaves.com/bookcat/by_brostoff_jonathan.html Asthma: The Complete Guide to Integrative Therapies- by Jonathan Brostoff, Linda GamlinThe Complete Guide to Food Allergy and Intolerance- by Jonathan Brostoff, Linda GamlinFood Allergies and Food Intolerance : The Complete Guide to Their Identification and Treatment- by Jonathan Brostoff, Linda GamlinImmunology- by Ivan Roitt(Editor), et alThe Allergy Bible : Understanding, Diagnosing, Treating, Allergies and Intolerances- by Reader's Digest(Editor), et alAutoimmune Disease : Aetiopathogenesis, Diagnosis and Treatment : Essays in Honour of the Retirement of Professor Ivan Roitt Frs- by Peter M. Lydyard(Editor), Jonathan Brostoff(Editor)Case Studies in Immunology- by Jonathan Brostoff, et alCase Studies in Immunology: Companion to Immunology, Fifth Edition- by Jonathan Brostoff, et alClinical Immunology- by Jonathan BrostoffClinical Immunology : An Illustrated Outline- by Jonathan Brostoff, David K. MaleImmunology- by Ivan M. Roitt, et alImmunology : Interactive 2.1- by David Male, et alThe Complete Guide to Hay Fever : The Latest Research & Techniques for Coping With Hayfever- by Jonathan BrostoffFood Allergy and Intolerance- by Jonathan Brostoff, Stephen J. ChallacombeImmunology- by Ivan Maurice Roitt, et alInmunologia Clinica- by Jonathan Brostoff, et alIntroducing Immunology- by Norman A. Staines, et alIf one were to take such posts seriously, those medical books would represent a lot of HOAXING by a Doctor with such a Vitae:CURRICULUM VITAErofessor Jonothan Brostoff, MA, DM, DSc. FRCP, FRCPath. CURRENT APPOINTMENTSrofessor and Chairman, Immunology, Allergy and Environmental Medicine, Kings College, London.Immediate Prior Appointmentsrofessor of Immunology, Allergy & PathologyUniversity College London Medical SchoolDirector of Clinical Immunology and AllergyUniversity College London Hospitals, (Middlesex and Associated Hospitals)Director, Diagnostic Laboratory: Autoimmunology, Immunology, and AllergyGraduated Oxford University and St. Marys Medical SchoolPast President, Clinical Immunology and Allergy Section, Royal Society of Medicine EDITORIAL BOARD APPOINTMENTS:Clinical reviews in AllergyClinics in Immunology and AllergyPerspectives in ENT-AllergyAllergologia et ImmunopathologiaClinical Immunotherapeutics SCIENTIFIC SOCIETIES ACTIVE:Member of every conceivable European and American Society related to Immunology and Allergy MEDICAL ADVISORY APPOINTMENTS:To the United Kingdom Ministery of Agriculture, Food and Fisheries (forFood and Chemical Sensitivity)To The National Eczema SocietyTo The Myalgic Encephalomyelitis AssociationChairman to the Allergy Research Foundation This would also mean that the research immunologists and allergists in other medical centers doing similar work, including the role of immunologic response to food provocation in IBS subjects specifically, must be falsifying their test results when they make statments such as:"....we can show an allergy-like inflammation during [food] challenges with parameters like Il-4, IFN-gamma, CD3, CD4, CD8 and IgE..." as regards their findings in patients who demonstrate the symptomology of IBS and who are negative on standard food allergy tests, but test-positive of oral challenge to various foods when they challenge the small intestine then examine what the immunologic reaction is which provokes the symptoms of pain, spasm, diarrhea, etc. and in so doing recover the evidence of same.This "hoax" then also involves not only major medical centers in the U.K., but in Sweden and Italy, several other European contries and a group of perpetrators in the USA, and spans about 30 years of their collective work.Not only is it highly unlikely that all these doctors and scientists have been perpetrtaing a hoax, it is highly unlikely that the tens of thousands of patients they have studied and treated successfully over the years were all faked as well.What a foolish thing say in a public place populated by people who, in many cases, suffer health problems directly attributable to the so-called "hoax".Eat well. THINK well. Be Well.MNL


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

CORRECTION: _____________________________________"While food allergies have nothing to do with this discussion, it is important to know this is a [hoax]" _____________________________________While I have had nothing in particular to add to this thread, It is important to know that it is a fact that this statement is utterly false. To accept it as factual and act accordingly would be to compromise the therapeutic outcomes of tens of thousands, nay millions, of patients. Since this was posted accompanied the following disclaimer: _____________________________________"I am not a doctor, nor do I work for profit in the medical/pharmacological field, but I have read scientific and medical texts, and have access to numerous sources of medical information that are not readily available to others. One should always consult a medical professional regarding advice received." ____________________________________...the pronouncement should be taken in the context of the disclaimer. Apparently the sources are not of sufficient scope to include up to date and accurate information on that particular referenced subject.In contrast I am a healthcare professional and a lifelong IBS sufferer, now in clinical rmission 6 years. I have been in healthcare for 31 years, and have access to and work with physicians and researchers in the field of food allergy, sensitivity, and intolerance hence my refutation of the posted indictment. If it were posted by a healthcare professional it would be unethical. Since it is not, the person is not technically bound by the ethical obligations and constraints which accompany health related professions. Such people, however, should be when they of their own accord assume the role of dispensing advice to people which can have an adverese effect on their treatment.If anyone wishes to learn about the so-called "hoax" from a qulaified authority on the subject, one could obtain a copy of this book for starters:"FOOD ALLERGIES AND FOOD INTOLERANCE: THE COMPLETE GUIDE TO THEIR IDENTIFICTION AND TREATMENT", Professor Jonathan Brostoff (M.D.. Allergy, Immunology and Environmental Medicine, Kings' College, London)http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/089...r=2-1/102-64875 08-3420903[/URL]Other books by Professor B:Books by: brostoff jonathan http://www.greenleaves.com/bookcat/by_brostoff_jonathan.html Asthma: The Complete Guide to Integrative Therapies- by Jonathan Brostoff, Linda GamlinThe Complete Guide to Food Allergy and Intolerance- by Jonathan Brostoff, Linda GamlinFood Allergies and Food Intolerance : The Complete Guide to Their Identification and Treatment- by Jonathan Brostoff, Linda GamlinImmunology- by Ivan Roitt(Editor), et alThe Allergy Bible : Understanding, Diagnosing, Treating, Allergies and Intolerances- by Reader's Digest(Editor), et alAutoimmune Disease : Aetiopathogenesis, Diagnosis and Treatment : Essays in Honour of the Retirement of Professor Ivan Roitt Frs- by Peter M. Lydyard(Editor), Jonathan Brostoff(Editor)Case Studies in Immunology- by Jonathan Brostoff, et alCase Studies in Immunology: Companion to Immunology, Fifth Edition- by Jonathan Brostoff, et alClinical Immunology- by Jonathan BrostoffClinical Immunology : An Illustrated Outline- by Jonathan Brostoff, David K. MaleImmunology- by Ivan M. Roitt, et alImmunology : Interactive 2.1- by David Male, et alThe Complete Guide to Hay Fever : The Latest Research & Techniques for Coping With Hayfever- by Jonathan BrostoffFood Allergy and Intolerance- by Jonathan Brostoff, Stephen J. ChallacombeImmunology- by Ivan Maurice Roitt, et alInmunologia Clinica- by Jonathan Brostoff, et alIntroducing Immunology- by Norman A. Staines, et alIf one were to take such posts seriously, those medical books would represent a lot of HOAXING by a Doctor with such a Vitae:CURRICULUM VITAErofessor Jonothan Brostoff, MA, DM, DSc. FRCP, FRCPath. CURRENT APPOINTMENTSrofessor and Chairman, Immunology, Allergy and Environmental Medicine, Kings College, London.Immediate Prior Appointmentsrofessor of Immunology, Allergy & PathologyUniversity College London Medical SchoolDirector of Clinical Immunology and AllergyUniversity College London Hospitals, (Middlesex and Associated Hospitals)Director, Diagnostic Laboratory: Autoimmunology, Immunology, and AllergyGraduated Oxford University and St. Marys Medical SchoolPast President, Clinical Immunology and Allergy Section, Royal Society of Medicine EDITORIAL BOARD APPOINTMENTS:Clinical reviews in AllergyClinics in Immunology and AllergyPerspectives in ENT-AllergyAllergologia et ImmunopathologiaClinical Immunotherapeutics SCIENTIFIC SOCIETIES ACTIVE:Member of every conceivable European and American Society related to Immunology and Allergy MEDICAL ADVISORY APPOINTMENTS:To the United Kingdom Ministery of Agriculture, Food and Fisheries (forFood and Chemical Sensitivity)To The National Eczema SocietyTo The Myalgic Encephalomyelitis AssociationChairman to the Allergy Research Foundation This would also mean that the research immunologists and allergists in other medical centers doing similar work, including the role of immunologic response to food provocation in IBS subjects specifically, must be falsifying their test results when they make statments such as:"....we can show an allergy-like inflammation during [food] challenges with parameters like Il-4, IFN-gamma, CD3, CD4, CD8 and IgE..." as regards their findings in patients who demonstrate the symptomology of IBS and who are negative on standard food allergy tests, but test-positive of oral challenge to various foods when they challenge the small intestine then examine what the immunologic reaction is which provokes the symptoms of pain, spasm, diarrhea, etc. and in so doing recover the evidence of same.This "hoax" then also involves not only major medical centers in the U.K., but in Sweden and Italy, several other European contries and a group of perpetrators in the USA, and spans about 30 years of their collective work.Not only is it highly unlikely that all these doctors and scientists have been perpetrtaing a hoax, it is highly unlikely that the tens of thousands of patients they have studied and treated successfully over the years were all faked as well.What a foolish thing say in a public place populated by people who, in many cases, suffer health problems directly attributable to the so-called "hoax".Eat well. THINK well. Be Well.MNL


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## RitaLucy (May 3, 2000)

Donna,I am curious why you would drink ginger ale all day long in the first place but especially since you have stated that you had a reaction to ginger.Maybe I am confused!BTW, carbonation causes gas -- I cannot drink carbonated drinks with my IBS. Your diet looks like it has a bit too much sugar in it also. I would try a bit more protein and cut back on the sugars and refined carbs. I don't know what type of bread you are eating for breakfast but hopefully it is a whole grain variety.I have hypoglycemia and I do not eat banans or carrots. I eat protein at every meal and I eat whole grain carbs. The ones that break down too easily are not good for you and they cause too much sugar and gas in the stomach.I could send you a copy of a really great diet if you are interested.LMK


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## RitaLucy (May 3, 2000)

Donna,I am curious why you would drink ginger ale all day long in the first place but especially since you have stated that you had a reaction to ginger.Maybe I am confused!BTW, carbonation causes gas -- I cannot drink carbonated drinks with my IBS. Your diet looks like it has a bit too much sugar in it also. I would try a bit more protein and cut back on the sugars and refined carbs. I don't know what type of bread you are eating for breakfast but hopefully it is a whole grain variety.I have hypoglycemia and I do not eat banans or carrots. I eat protein at every meal and I eat whole grain carbs. The ones that break down too easily are not good for you and they cause too much sugar and gas in the stomach.I could send you a copy of a really great diet if you are interested.LMK


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## ohnometo (Sep 20, 2001)

FluxWhy is it that you are always putting peoples comments down calling things rubbish and a hoax...What is it with you ...seems like all you know about is gas and farting....I have never saw one post about how you if you do suffer with IBS...please be more understanding with people...dont you get it by know..of how many people you have hurt by your comments..you have never since I have been on the board...There is tasteful ways of putting words....Why are you so mysterious about your condition and never say you suffer or what you have done to make your IBS better.......Whats the deal here ?


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## ohnometo (Sep 20, 2001)

FluxWhy is it that you are always putting peoples comments down calling things rubbish and a hoax...What is it with you ...seems like all you know about is gas and farting....I have never saw one post about how you if you do suffer with IBS...please be more understanding with people...dont you get it by know..of how many people you have hurt by your comments..you have never since I have been on the board...There is tasteful ways of putting words....Why are you so mysterious about your condition and never say you suffer or what you have done to make your IBS better.......Whats the deal here ?


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Rita Lucy, thanks! I just sent you a private message about your diet. I would love a copy of it.







If you want to post it on the board, that would be fine. Otherwise, you can e-mail me at darlene1064###hotmail.comBonnie: I am sorry that there is so much controversy on here.







I don't know what to do about it.







All I can say is that I really appreciate everyone's help and suggestions. Yes, I am counting and there is less gas...but it's still an abnormal amount. I went out today and bought unsweetened applesauce, plain yogurt, and I quit the gingerale completely and am down to water and peppermint tea. I wish that there was more to drink than that. Even Gatorade is loaded with fructose.I'll keep you posted.Darlene


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Rita Lucy, thanks! I just sent you a private message about your diet. I would love a copy of it.







If you want to post it on the board, that would be fine. Otherwise, you can e-mail me at darlene1064###hotmail.comBonnie: I am sorry that there is so much controversy on here.







I don't know what to do about it.







All I can say is that I really appreciate everyone's help and suggestions. Yes, I am counting and there is less gas...but it's still an abnormal amount. I went out today and bought unsweetened applesauce, plain yogurt, and I quit the gingerale completely and am down to water and peppermint tea. I wish that there was more to drink than that. Even Gatorade is loaded with fructose.I'll keep you posted.Darlene


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## LisaL (Nov 14, 2000)

The way this thread has turned out makes me laugh. Bonnie is constantly defending Flux, and now he is even rude to her.Why can't people just understand that Flux does not have IBS? He also doesn't fart. He is also the rudest, most ignorant individual I have ever had the displeasure of dealing with.Stop defending someone who just likes to hurt others.Lisa


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## LisaL (Nov 14, 2000)

The way this thread has turned out makes me laugh. Bonnie is constantly defending Flux, and now he is even rude to her.Why can't people just understand that Flux does not have IBS? He also doesn't fart. He is also the rudest, most ignorant individual I have ever had the displeasure of dealing with.Stop defending someone who just likes to hurt others.Lisa


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:She was wondering how long someone can live on Ensure.


Forever as far as I know.


> quote: She drinks about 4 cans a day


This sounds like enough...


> quote:Gail, is she drinking the Ensure Plus?


This is a good point. I think it has to be Ensure Plus, not the regular Ensure.You can call the Ensure people at (800) 986-8510 and ask your questions!


> quote:It's a known fact that when people are anxious, that they swallow more air.


Actually, anxiety appears to increase swallowing frequency which in turn can deliver more dead space air to the gut. Not the same as true aerophagia but far easier to correct.


> quote:If I do it consciously, the air going down the digestive tract is just more painful.


How do you know itï¿½s the air that is responsible for the pain?


> quote:"While food allergies have nothing to do with this discussion, it is important to know this is a[hoax]"


_____________________________________Huh? Did I write that wrong?







Perhaps better expressed asWhile food allergies have nothing to do with this discussion, it is important to know *this form of testing, known as applied kinesiology, is a hoax.*


> quote:BTW, carbonation causes gas


This gas is probably absorbed before it gets to be a problem.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:She was wondering how long someone can live on Ensure.


Forever as far as I know.


> quote: She drinks about 4 cans a day


This sounds like enough...


> quote:Gail, is she drinking the Ensure Plus?


This is a good point. I think it has to be Ensure Plus, not the regular Ensure.You can call the Ensure people at (800) 986-8510 and ask your questions!


> quote:It's a known fact that when people are anxious, that they swallow more air.


Actually, anxiety appears to increase swallowing frequency which in turn can deliver more dead space air to the gut. Not the same as true aerophagia but far easier to correct.


> quote:If I do it consciously, the air going down the digestive tract is just more painful.


How do you know itï¿½s the air that is responsible for the pain?


> quote:"While food allergies have nothing to do with this discussion, it is important to know this is a[hoax]"


_____________________________________Huh? Did I write that wrong?







Perhaps better expressed asWhile food allergies have nothing to do with this discussion, it is important to know *this form of testing, known as applied kinesiology, is a hoax.*


> quote:BTW, carbonation causes gas


This gas is probably absorbed before it gets to be a problem.


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Wow! I didn't think this would bring out all the flux bashers. I feel I have to defend flux( don't know if he appreciates this). People, relax! It is entirely my problem. i am conflicted about a lot of things which are not appropriate for discussion even by e-mail. It is something that is happening away from the bulletin board. But because of that I am tending to take things a little personally here. While it is true that flux's style is always to dispute rather than say I agree today he actually said "you made a good point" to darlene. I am sooo jealous. flux you should do more of that so one doesn't always feel one is in a battle with you defending oneself. But flux was joking- he even used graemlins- when he was talking to me. So I give him full points for that. And regardless of what you all say he is a really sweet guy by e-mail.


> quote:How do you know it's the air that is responsible for the pain?


A friend of mine suffers from aerophagia and when I heard of his plight I tried to consciously swallow air. I think I reported my experiment at the beginning of this thread. How- when I tried to do it, it produced gas but the air was really painful on its way down the esophagus. It is a very different kind of pain.If I consciously try to swallow air that pain starts. And only then .As to whether it is air or the opening of the LES which causes this pain or some other muscular thing I don't know.But it has to do with starting the process of consciously swallowing


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Wow! I didn't think this would bring out all the flux bashers. I feel I have to defend flux( don't know if he appreciates this). People, relax! It is entirely my problem. i am conflicted about a lot of things which are not appropriate for discussion even by e-mail. It is something that is happening away from the bulletin board. But because of that I am tending to take things a little personally here. While it is true that flux's style is always to dispute rather than say I agree today he actually said "you made a good point" to darlene. I am sooo jealous. flux you should do more of that so one doesn't always feel one is in a battle with you defending oneself. But flux was joking- he even used graemlins- when he was talking to me. So I give him full points for that. And regardless of what you all say he is a really sweet guy by e-mail.


> quote:How do you know it's the air that is responsible for the pain?


A friend of mine suffers from aerophagia and when I heard of his plight I tried to consciously swallow air. I think I reported my experiment at the beginning of this thread. How- when I tried to do it, it produced gas but the air was really painful on its way down the esophagus. It is a very different kind of pain.If I consciously try to swallow air that pain starts. And only then .As to whether it is air or the opening of the LES which causes this pain or some other muscular thing I don't know.But it has to do with starting the process of consciously swallowing


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Oh my gosh, I was COMPLIMENTED by FLUX!







I feel like I got a special award or something. Seriously, it felt good to be quoted by Flux and then a positive remark. OK, I'll try not to let this go to my head.







Seriously Flux, you should do this more often. Bonnie deserves some nice words for defending you so often.







Darlene


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Oh my gosh, I was COMPLIMENTED by FLUX!







I feel like I got a special award or something. Seriously, it felt good to be quoted by Flux and then a positive remark. OK, I'll try not to let this go to my head.







Seriously Flux, you should do this more often. Bonnie deserves some nice words for defending you so often.







Darlene


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

You are a riot, Darlene!


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

You are a riot, Darlene!


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

I have been thinking about what you said LisaL. Maybe the whole world is laughing at me for having defended him so far. And flux does not appreciate me defending him. So where is the point in defending him? I won't defend him any more. LisaL, if your point was to win me over to your side, you have. And I agree with the people on the board that it is not fair that he doesn't tell anyone what his illness is. It does give him an unfair edge in most disagreements. So I have turned over a new leaf! Yay!


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

I have been thinking about what you said LisaL. Maybe the whole world is laughing at me for having defended him so far. And flux does not appreciate me defending him. So where is the point in defending him? I won't defend him any more. LisaL, if your point was to win me over to your side, you have. And I agree with the people on the board that it is not fair that he doesn't tell anyone what his illness is. It does give him an unfair edge in most disagreements. So I have turned over a new leaf! Yay!


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## LisaL (Nov 14, 2000)

Bonnie,I would love to say to you that your kindness to Flux meant something to him, but as you can see it doesn't. I admire you for having been so nice for so long. I can see how you may have felt that way as you noticed him being nicer on email, but only an uncaring individual would ignore your pleas to find out if you are appreciated. I just can't believe that he has gotten away with never disclosing the fact that he does not have IBS. I must say I am proud of you as I am always truly disgusted at the way he speaks (writes) to people. I am not usually sensitive to most remarks either, so it shows just how rude he really is.Take care,Lisa


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## LisaL (Nov 14, 2000)

Bonnie,I would love to say to you that your kindness to Flux meant something to him, but as you can see it doesn't. I admire you for having been so nice for so long. I can see how you may have felt that way as you noticed him being nicer on email, but only an uncaring individual would ignore your pleas to find out if you are appreciated. I just can't believe that he has gotten away with never disclosing the fact that he does not have IBS. I must say I am proud of you as I am always truly disgusted at the way he speaks (writes) to people. I am not usually sensitive to most remarks either, so it shows just how rude he really is.Take care,Lisa


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## scampbell1968 (Jan 29, 2002)

Hi--new member here. I was diagnosed nearly 10 years ago when I got out of the military--but have been fairly fortunate in being able to control symptoms through diet, exercise and attitude. I'm fortunate that mine has never been disabling, merely embarrassing and painful. (I'm cyclical, alternating at various times with C, D and F, but usually having either C and F together, and then D).What works for me is:I avoid most dairy--although have a weakness for cheese and ice cream. They're treats and I can have very small amounts infrequently without too much problem. I have pretty good luck with the Healthy Choice ice cream (vanilla) although why that should be I don't know.I avoid alcohol. I have a glass or two of red wine on Friday and Saturday nights and that seems to be okay, but ****tails and beer were a killer. I'd spend the whole next day in the potty, not to mention terrible hangovers and being in a fog all the time.I was also helped by switching from coffee to green tea. I also like some caffeine to "get things moving" but coffee was overkill. Green tea works great for me--I drink it with every meal. That probably equals out to 1 cup of coffee or can of Coke a day--but it's in smaller amounts so my body seems to be able to handle it. Celestial Seasonings makes a nice green tea with orange blossom flavor that I really like called Emerald Gardens. Tastes and smells great, and very happy, relaxing experience to drink it (which I think may be part of its charm).My big breakthrough in the last year has been eliminating fructose. High Fructose Corn Syrup, specifically, because what is found naturally in fruit doesn't seem to be a huge problem. But HFCS did terrible things to my gut, and it also was contributing to horrible, horrible problems with Candida...yuck. Eliminated it (along with most refined sugars) from my diet last year and have been pleased with the results. IBS symptoms still recur from time to time, but MUCH better overall than before the diet change. Candida more or less gone.I'm fairly militant on the HFCS, but less so on the refined sugars--that would mean giving up chocolate, and that will happen over my cold, dead, bloated body! Seems like HFCS is in everything. Very hard to find foods that don't contain it--Soda, fruit juices (and some veggie juices), applesauce, spaghetti sauce, canned soups, peanut butter...It's everywhere. I noticed that it's in most of the food that Darlene eats, near as I can tell--except the meats. It's frequently found in bread too. Read those labels!I read the label of every food that goes into my mouth now, avoid HFCS as much as possible and I've had an improvement in my symptoms. Once you're committed to avoiding fructose, you'll find you eat mostly meat, fish, vegetables, (fruit, if you can tolerate it), rice and grains--stuff you find around the edge of the grocery store. These also tend to be the foods that flux recommended--so it seems that I'm on his diet, but came at it from a different direction!One other observation--exercise also really helps me. I go to a gym by my house and do elliptical trainer for about 20 minutes a day because it's low impact and gets my heart rate up. I used to run but I stopped doing that (too much bouncing around made me have problems). I am really glad that I still am able to ski and hike--just have to be very careful about what I eat before I go. Toast, eggs and tea and about a liter of water. Then, I drink water and herbal tea throughout the day, have soup and herbal tea for lunch, maybe a salad, and by the time that hits me I'm off the slopes. Mostly, I save my eating for after, just to be safe. I have had some bad days. Spent 4 hours in the bathroom once at a ski resort, then had to stop at every available toilet on the way home, but most days if I watch what I eat I'm okay. I get flatulence, but I just let 'er rip--that's what makes the outdoors so great! If I'm really having a problem I hang out in the lodge by the fire so I can get to the bathroom...rough!The times it's worst for me is when I'm stressed and unhappy, so I do believe that there must be validity to the "brain/gut" connection. That's why I think it's important to keep doing the things that I like doing even if it's a challenge sometimes. Maybe that's why Darlene's doc wants her on antidepressants?Just some thoughts.


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## scampbell1968 (Jan 29, 2002)

Hi--new member here. I was diagnosed nearly 10 years ago when I got out of the military--but have been fairly fortunate in being able to control symptoms through diet, exercise and attitude. I'm fortunate that mine has never been disabling, merely embarrassing and painful. (I'm cyclical, alternating at various times with C, D and F, but usually having either C and F together, and then D).What works for me is:I avoid most dairy--although have a weakness for cheese and ice cream. They're treats and I can have very small amounts infrequently without too much problem. I have pretty good luck with the Healthy Choice ice cream (vanilla) although why that should be I don't know.I avoid alcohol. I have a glass or two of red wine on Friday and Saturday nights and that seems to be okay, but ****tails and beer were a killer. I'd spend the whole next day in the potty, not to mention terrible hangovers and being in a fog all the time.I was also helped by switching from coffee to green tea. I also like some caffeine to "get things moving" but coffee was overkill. Green tea works great for me--I drink it with every meal. That probably equals out to 1 cup of coffee or can of Coke a day--but it's in smaller amounts so my body seems to be able to handle it. Celestial Seasonings makes a nice green tea with orange blossom flavor that I really like called Emerald Gardens. Tastes and smells great, and very happy, relaxing experience to drink it (which I think may be part of its charm).My big breakthrough in the last year has been eliminating fructose. High Fructose Corn Syrup, specifically, because what is found naturally in fruit doesn't seem to be a huge problem. But HFCS did terrible things to my gut, and it also was contributing to horrible, horrible problems with Candida...yuck. Eliminated it (along with most refined sugars) from my diet last year and have been pleased with the results. IBS symptoms still recur from time to time, but MUCH better overall than before the diet change. Candida more or less gone.I'm fairly militant on the HFCS, but less so on the refined sugars--that would mean giving up chocolate, and that will happen over my cold, dead, bloated body! Seems like HFCS is in everything. Very hard to find foods that don't contain it--Soda, fruit juices (and some veggie juices), applesauce, spaghetti sauce, canned soups, peanut butter...It's everywhere. I noticed that it's in most of the food that Darlene eats, near as I can tell--except the meats. It's frequently found in bread too. Read those labels!I read the label of every food that goes into my mouth now, avoid HFCS as much as possible and I've had an improvement in my symptoms. Once you're committed to avoiding fructose, you'll find you eat mostly meat, fish, vegetables, (fruit, if you can tolerate it), rice and grains--stuff you find around the edge of the grocery store. These also tend to be the foods that flux recommended--so it seems that I'm on his diet, but came at it from a different direction!One other observation--exercise also really helps me. I go to a gym by my house and do elliptical trainer for about 20 minutes a day because it's low impact and gets my heart rate up. I used to run but I stopped doing that (too much bouncing around made me have problems). I am really glad that I still am able to ski and hike--just have to be very careful about what I eat before I go. Toast, eggs and tea and about a liter of water. Then, I drink water and herbal tea throughout the day, have soup and herbal tea for lunch, maybe a salad, and by the time that hits me I'm off the slopes. Mostly, I save my eating for after, just to be safe. I have had some bad days. Spent 4 hours in the bathroom once at a ski resort, then had to stop at every available toilet on the way home, but most days if I watch what I eat I'm okay. I get flatulence, but I just let 'er rip--that's what makes the outdoors so great! If I'm really having a problem I hang out in the lodge by the fire so I can get to the bathroom...rough!The times it's worst for me is when I'm stressed and unhappy, so I do believe that there must be validity to the "brain/gut" connection. That's why I think it's important to keep doing the things that I like doing even if it's a challenge sometimes. Maybe that's why Darlene's doc wants her on antidepressants?Just some thoughts.


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Scamp68, welcome to the board!!







THANK YOU for sharing your experiences with us, and for all of your helpful suggestions. I will go out tomorrow and look for some of that green tea. Your message came at a time when I really needed it. I came down with a bad case of gastritis last night, and I've been dealing with a sore tummy all day today. This is just one of those added bonuses to the IBS. I usually only get this maybe a couple of times a year, and it's usually after eating something like pizza or lasagna. Maybe it's the dairy that does it...I haven't really figured it out yet. But I lost a whole night of sleep and still feel pretty bad. It's not diarrhea, but a lot of soreness and a gassy feeling. Do any of you get this? I wonder if this is common for IBS'ers. It usually lasts for about 3 days or so. Again, thanks for posting and sharing the details of what helps you. It has certainly been helpful to me, and possibly many others who are reading. You brought up a lot of good ideas.







Bonnie, I'm sorry that Flux disappointed you. You have certainly been good to him. Now what are we supposed to do???







You rescued me and then I rescued you. Look where it got us!







Darlene


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Scamp68, welcome to the board!!







THANK YOU for sharing your experiences with us, and for all of your helpful suggestions. I will go out tomorrow and look for some of that green tea. Your message came at a time when I really needed it. I came down with a bad case of gastritis last night, and I've been dealing with a sore tummy all day today. This is just one of those added bonuses to the IBS. I usually only get this maybe a couple of times a year, and it's usually after eating something like pizza or lasagna. Maybe it's the dairy that does it...I haven't really figured it out yet. But I lost a whole night of sleep and still feel pretty bad. It's not diarrhea, but a lot of soreness and a gassy feeling. Do any of you get this? I wonder if this is common for IBS'ers. It usually lasts for about 3 days or so. Again, thanks for posting and sharing the details of what helps you. It has certainly been helpful to me, and possibly many others who are reading. You brought up a lot of good ideas.







Bonnie, I'm sorry that Flux disappointed you. You have certainly been good to him. Now what are we supposed to do???







You rescued me and then I rescued you. Look where it got us!







Darlene


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## GailSusan (Dec 23, 2000)

Thank you all for taking time out in this discussion to address my concerns with my mom. Darlene, she won't eat anything cs. it hurts so much (she has neuralgia of the mouth) and she won't take Ensure Plus (too thick, she says). Flux, thanks for the phone number, I'll call Ensure and ask the questions. I'm sure they'll say "it's just a supplement and shouldn't be relied on for your entire nutrition", but what can you do? I can't make her eat. Thanks, again.


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## GailSusan (Dec 23, 2000)

Thank you all for taking time out in this discussion to address my concerns with my mom. Darlene, she won't eat anything cs. it hurts so much (she has neuralgia of the mouth) and she won't take Ensure Plus (too thick, she says). Flux, thanks for the phone number, I'll call Ensure and ask the questions. I'm sure they'll say "it's just a supplement and shouldn't be relied on for your entire nutrition", but what can you do? I can't make her eat. Thanks, again.


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Yeah I don't know what to say except thanks for your kind words, LisaL and darlene.The only thing I can think of was this- maybe flux was upset by something in my e-mails. In that case ,ignore my last e-mail please, flux. If you were upset by something please let me know what by e-mail. Also, I suppose you put him in a spot, darlene, asking him to say nice words about me. Maybe he was just embarassed. And by the way I know for a fact that he doesn't want me to defend him in some cases at least. But He could have said,"Thanks but no thanks".Or maybe he is just telling me to p*** offWhatever!Please let me know, fluxOk I don't wish to discuss this issue anymore on the board.


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Yeah I don't know what to say except thanks for your kind words, LisaL and darlene.The only thing I can think of was this- maybe flux was upset by something in my e-mails. In that case ,ignore my last e-mail please, flux. If you were upset by something please let me know what by e-mail. Also, I suppose you put him in a spot, darlene, asking him to say nice words about me. Maybe he was just embarassed. And by the way I know for a fact that he doesn't want me to defend him in some cases at least. But He could have said,"Thanks but no thanks".Or maybe he is just telling me to p*** offWhatever!Please let me know, fluxOk I don't wish to discuss this issue anymore on the board.


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

COMMENT on restatement: ____________________________________"...it is important to know this form of testing, known as applied kinesiology, is a hoax." ____________________________________I would tend to agree with this statement. Regardless of whether the benefit of the doubt is granted to the theory behind applied kinesiology for food reactivity testing (allergy or otherwise)whether it really is or is not based upon physical phenomeneon beyond detection with present technology as may be argued by practitioners of same is kind of moot, since it does not "repeat" well.So even though non-IgE (non allergic) reactivity to foods or chemicals in them includes mechanisms which can and do result in lability (meaning variability in the degree of reactivity or degree of intolerance from time to time as some mechanism do not involve mechanisms which include what we would call I guess "cellular memory", also the provoking doses may vary), you should be able to reproduce on a "split sample basis" at least 75% or better ESPECIALLY if it is ALLERGY to food that is being claimed since we ARE talking about a memory mechanisms which does not change from sample to sample: IgE. Here 85%+ is not unreasonable for nonIgE mechanisms, and IgE assay should be well better than that (as many RAST and ELISA providers for example can provide I think with good quality controls). **Still have to check with oral challenge as the presence of the specific immunoglobulin does not gurantee that an allergic reaction will occur, only that the stage has been set so to speak).But if you take (1) patient and have (2) different kinesiologists test the same serially (ie almost simultaneously blind to the other) its the results do not reproduce, just like the old 1960's cytotoxic test, for example.Some will say this is because the claimed mechanism of detetction is imaginary, which may or may not be corrcet as I cannot speak to some of the more ethereal concepts of "energy bodies" and stuff, what the heck do I know about that as I have no way of confirming or disproving, so I acknowledge knowing zip about that!BUT even if the concept were sound, the procedure at its very best suffers the same flaw that made/makes cyctotoxic testing for non IgE reactivity clinically unuseful even though there is indeed a cytotoxic cellular response mechanism:It is "operator dependent".







That is it relies upon the subjective interpretative skill of the administrator of the test to produce results. It is just not possible, then, to be repeatable unless every single person perceives the outcome exactly the same way and interprets the "effect" identically. Which is impossible.So even from the broadest and most open minded perspective possible, no matter how you cut it, it does not reproduce well so its usefullness is limited at the very best. Now one may experience a degree of symptm remission by adjusting diet based upon the reported results, indeed, and there are a number of reasosn that this can and does occur, which if I had more time today I could enumerate. But I am just short it these days...I think the audience though that has studied the topic could predict and list the possibilities.Anyway, thats all I have (time) to say about that.MNGump


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

COMMENT on restatement: ____________________________________"...it is important to know this form of testing, known as applied kinesiology, is a hoax." ____________________________________I would tend to agree with this statement. Regardless of whether the benefit of the doubt is granted to the theory behind applied kinesiology for food reactivity testing (allergy or otherwise)whether it really is or is not based upon physical phenomeneon beyond detection with present technology as may be argued by practitioners of same is kind of moot, since it does not "repeat" well.So even though non-IgE (non allergic) reactivity to foods or chemicals in them includes mechanisms which can and do result in lability (meaning variability in the degree of reactivity or degree of intolerance from time to time as some mechanism do not involve mechanisms which include what we would call I guess "cellular memory", also the provoking doses may vary), you should be able to reproduce on a "split sample basis" at least 75% or better ESPECIALLY if it is ALLERGY to food that is being claimed since we ARE talking about a memory mechanisms which does not change from sample to sample: IgE. Here 85%+ is not unreasonable for nonIgE mechanisms, and IgE assay should be well better than that (as many RAST and ELISA providers for example can provide I think with good quality controls). **Still have to check with oral challenge as the presence of the specific immunoglobulin does not gurantee that an allergic reaction will occur, only that the stage has been set so to speak).But if you take (1) patient and have (2) different kinesiologists test the same serially (ie almost simultaneously blind to the other) its the results do not reproduce, just like the old 1960's cytotoxic test, for example.Some will say this is because the claimed mechanism of detetction is imaginary, which may or may not be corrcet as I cannot speak to some of the more ethereal concepts of "energy bodies" and stuff, what the heck do I know about that as I have no way of confirming or disproving, so I acknowledge knowing zip about that!BUT even if the concept were sound, the procedure at its very best suffers the same flaw that made/makes cyctotoxic testing for non IgE reactivity clinically unuseful even though there is indeed a cytotoxic cellular response mechanism:It is "operator dependent".







That is it relies upon the subjective interpretative skill of the administrator of the test to produce results. It is just not possible, then, to be repeatable unless every single person perceives the outcome exactly the same way and interprets the "effect" identically. Which is impossible.So even from the broadest and most open minded perspective possible, no matter how you cut it, it does not reproduce well so its usefullness is limited at the very best. Now one may experience a degree of symptm remission by adjusting diet based upon the reported results, indeed, and there are a number of reasosn that this can and does occur, which if I had more time today I could enumerate. But I am just short it these days...I think the audience though that has studied the topic could predict and list the possibilities.Anyway, thats all I have (time) to say about that.MNGump


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## scampbell1968 (Jan 29, 2002)

Darlene--thanks for your enthusiastic welcome! Your reaction to lasagna and pizza could be just about anything, but the dairy seems like a likely culprit. Could also be the fat--I tend to have trouble with food that is really greasy. If I were you I'd try avoiding dairy and see if it helps. I eat cheese as a treat once in a blue, and eat the lowfat ice cream and am okay. Regular ice cream is too much for me, and I am so used to not drinking milk now, the very idea of it grosses me out. It gives me stomach cramps right away, tho' I do put a tiny bit of acidophilus milk on my cereal. I use about half the "normal" amount and I don't drink the leftover--unfortunately, I can't stand soy milk and won't eat dry cereal. My mom recommended putting juice on my cereal, but that sounds revolting. There's a limit, you know?Tea is wonderful. Make a little ritual of it and use it as a time to relax and think happy thoughts. Doesn't have to be green tea either--I read somewhere that all hot drinks have some sort of positive effect on the digestion. I also like the Good Earth teas--they're herbal and they smell/taste really good too. Another thing I forgot to mention is that my doctor told me to eat Fiber One, so I do. It makes me a little gassier than usual (which is really saying something) BUT--the gas is neither smelly nor painful. So, given that it's helping me to stay regular (god that makes me sound so old!) and it doesn't hurt, I figure I'll put up with the pooting, if I can go to the bathroom.I really think the best thing you can do to help yourself is to try to keep a positive attitude, and don't be afraid to try different things until you find something that helps you. Dairy, alcohol and caffeine bother a lot of people, so those are good places to start. IBS probably will never go away completely, but it will hopefully settle into some semblance of a tolerable situation. That's where I'm at now, but I still have bad days. Try not to let it ruin or rule your life. And try to laugh at it when you can. Because as any 3-year-old will tell you, poop is funny! Being able to laugh at it and not be so embarrassed kind of helps me. Last year, I had a new boyfriend and was always afraid I would have an attack in front of him, and I really think that being so stressed out about it was making my problem worse. That day I spent the 4 hours in the bathroom at the ski resort was the day I finally had to tell him what was going on with me, and he was actually really sweet about it. Now, he just teases me about being jet-propelled.


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## scampbell1968 (Jan 29, 2002)

Darlene--thanks for your enthusiastic welcome! Your reaction to lasagna and pizza could be just about anything, but the dairy seems like a likely culprit. Could also be the fat--I tend to have trouble with food that is really greasy. If I were you I'd try avoiding dairy and see if it helps. I eat cheese as a treat once in a blue, and eat the lowfat ice cream and am okay. Regular ice cream is too much for me, and I am so used to not drinking milk now, the very idea of it grosses me out. It gives me stomach cramps right away, tho' I do put a tiny bit of acidophilus milk on my cereal. I use about half the "normal" amount and I don't drink the leftover--unfortunately, I can't stand soy milk and won't eat dry cereal. My mom recommended putting juice on my cereal, but that sounds revolting. There's a limit, you know?Tea is wonderful. Make a little ritual of it and use it as a time to relax and think happy thoughts. Doesn't have to be green tea either--I read somewhere that all hot drinks have some sort of positive effect on the digestion. I also like the Good Earth teas--they're herbal and they smell/taste really good too. Another thing I forgot to mention is that my doctor told me to eat Fiber One, so I do. It makes me a little gassier than usual (which is really saying something) BUT--the gas is neither smelly nor painful. So, given that it's helping me to stay regular (god that makes me sound so old!) and it doesn't hurt, I figure I'll put up with the pooting, if I can go to the bathroom.I really think the best thing you can do to help yourself is to try to keep a positive attitude, and don't be afraid to try different things until you find something that helps you. Dairy, alcohol and caffeine bother a lot of people, so those are good places to start. IBS probably will never go away completely, but it will hopefully settle into some semblance of a tolerable situation. That's where I'm at now, but I still have bad days. Try not to let it ruin or rule your life. And try to laugh at it when you can. Because as any 3-year-old will tell you, poop is funny! Being able to laugh at it and not be so embarrassed kind of helps me. Last year, I had a new boyfriend and was always afraid I would have an attack in front of him, and I really think that being so stressed out about it was making my problem worse. That day I spent the 4 hours in the bathroom at the ski resort was the day I finally had to tell him what was going on with me, and he was actually really sweet about it. Now, he just teases me about being jet-propelled.


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

GailSusan, I will keep your Mom in my prayers. If she can drink Ensure, perhaps you can get her to drink some fruit juices also. It must be awful to be on a liquid diet, but like you said, you can't force her to eat. It does sound like a very painful disorder. I hope and pray that she will get some relief soon. If we can be of any help or support to you, let us know.Sorry for the mess, Bonniei. I shouldn't have put Flux on the spot like that. I was only trying to joke lightly with him. Flux, please accept my apology. My gas condition really gets me down, and sometimes it's a nice distraction to get off the subject a little. For example, look at the difference in my attitude since posting this thread. Even though my condition hasn't improved, the tone of my messages have changed, thanks to everyone who posted with encouragement and suggestions. I feel like I'm really getting to know you guys.Scamp68, thanks for posting again! I really like your messages, because you give so many details, which really helps A LOT!! Even though you have bad days, it sounds like you really have the whole condition in perspective. Your attitude is great, and it's wonderful that you continue to do things that you enjoy. Thanks for sharing with all of us.







Well, I continue to have problems, but my attitude seems better, thanks to everybody. Remember how I took low dose Flagyl for about a week? Well, now I have a major coated tongue. It is soooo gross and everything tastes YUCKY!







Still on low fructose. Water and tea are boring, but I'm determined not to give up.Darlene


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

GailSusan, I will keep your Mom in my prayers. If she can drink Ensure, perhaps you can get her to drink some fruit juices also. It must be awful to be on a liquid diet, but like you said, you can't force her to eat. It does sound like a very painful disorder. I hope and pray that she will get some relief soon. If we can be of any help or support to you, let us know.Sorry for the mess, Bonniei. I shouldn't have put Flux on the spot like that. I was only trying to joke lightly with him. Flux, please accept my apology. My gas condition really gets me down, and sometimes it's a nice distraction to get off the subject a little. For example, look at the difference in my attitude since posting this thread. Even though my condition hasn't improved, the tone of my messages have changed, thanks to everyone who posted with encouragement and suggestions. I feel like I'm really getting to know you guys.Scamp68, thanks for posting again! I really like your messages, because you give so many details, which really helps A LOT!! Even though you have bad days, it sounds like you really have the whole condition in perspective. Your attitude is great, and it's wonderful that you continue to do things that you enjoy. Thanks for sharing with all of us.







Well, I continue to have problems, but my attitude seems better, thanks to everybody. Remember how I took low dose Flagyl for about a week? Well, now I have a major coated tongue. It is soooo gross and everything tastes YUCKY!







Still on low fructose. Water and tea are boring, but I'm determined not to give up.Darlene


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

Sometimes, I am just not paying attention







Everyone knows, bonnie you are a







TM


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

Sometimes, I am just not paying attention







Everyone knows, bonnie you are a







TM


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

I agree with flux! You are great, Bonnie!!







You have helped me so much on this board and through e-mail. Bonnie, treat yourself to something extra special today! You deserve it!







Darlene


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

I agree with flux! You are great, Bonnie!!







You have helped me so much on this board and through e-mail. Bonnie, treat yourself to something extra special today! You deserve it!







Darlene


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

Darlene, If it helps you any, I found Flagyl to be a vile drug. Made me feel more awful if that was possible, for about the 1st week I was on it. Then it began to have an effect and I started to look at the foul taste in my mouth and the general yuccky (real scientific term there







) feeling as necessary evils. It did get rid of my C-Diff, but it took its time and I was real happy not to have to take it anymore. Do you notice how NO foods taste good???? LOL Awful, but effective stuff. Hope you feel better soon.







BQ (Here: these are for you in sympathy





















)


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

Darlene, If it helps you any, I found Flagyl to be a vile drug. Made me feel more awful if that was possible, for about the 1st week I was on it. Then it began to have an effect and I started to look at the foul taste in my mouth and the general yuccky (real scientific term there







) feeling as necessary evils. It did get rid of my C-Diff, but it took its time and I was real happy not to have to take it anymore. Do you notice how NO foods taste good???? LOL Awful, but effective stuff. Hope you feel better soon.







BQ (Here: these are for you in sympathy





















)


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Thanks BQ!!! LOL...yes, I do notice that everything tastes AWFUL!!







The strange thing is that I only took it for one week, and I was only taking one 250 mg. tablet each day. The strangest part is that I didn't notice the coated tongue until one week AFTER I stopped taking it. How long does this tongue thing last??














Darlene


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Thanks BQ!!! LOL...yes, I do notice that everything tastes AWFUL!!







The strange thing is that I only took it for one week, and I was only taking one 250 mg. tablet each day. The strangest part is that I didn't notice the coated tongue until one week AFTER I stopped taking it. How long does this tongue thing last??














Darlene


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

Darlene, To be perfectly honest, LOL I was more concerned with the 'other' end. LOL And consequently didn't give my tongue a whole lot of attention. LOL







I dunno, you could ask the doc??BQ


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

Darlene, To be perfectly honest, LOL I was more concerned with the 'other' end. LOL And consequently didn't give my tongue a whole lot of attention. LOL







I dunno, you could ask the doc??BQ


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

LOL BQ! I know what you mean. The "other end" is always more of a concern to me too!







Boy, am I jealous of these people that don't worry about any of these things.







Oh well, if it is still gross when I go back to the doctor, I'll have to stick out my tongue for him. Sure better than showing him the "other end".







Darlene


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

LOL BQ! I know what you mean. The "other end" is always more of a concern to me too!







Boy, am I jealous of these people that don't worry about any of these things.







Oh well, if it is still gross when I go back to the doctor, I'll have to stick out my tongue for him. Sure better than showing him the "other end".







Darlene


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

Well make sure ya don't enjoy sticking that tongue out at him too much.







BQ


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

Well make sure ya don't enjoy sticking that tongue out at him too much.







BQ


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Thanks, flux! Got to runI will adrress the others later. Got to run! A meeting to go to


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Thanks, flux! Got to runI will adrress the others later. Got to run! A meeting to go to


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

oops looks like I don't know how to post gifs. Will try to fix it later. But it is a heart which says to flux," Just a quick note to say Thanks. You are really pretty special"


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

oops looks like I don't know how to post gifs. Will try to fix it later. But it is a heart which says to flux," Just a quick note to say Thanks. You are really pretty special"


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Don't understand the gifs, I think. flux you will just have to imagine it







And I had one for you too, Darlene. It said "thanks for your support. You helped"Ok got to go to class now. Just when I am busy all these things are happening. See you


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Don't understand the gifs, I think. flux you will just have to imagine it







And I had one for you too, Darlene. It said "thanks for your support. You helped"Ok got to go to class now. Just when I am busy all these things are happening. See you


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## Joan Gregg (Jun 6, 2000)

Phew! LOL


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## Joan Gregg (Jun 6, 2000)

Phew! LOL


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

I'm glad that you checked in and received your messages, Bonnie.







I hope that you are having a GREAT day!







Darlene


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

I'm glad that you checked in and received your messages, Bonnie.







I hope that you are having a GREAT day!







Darlene


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## gaylestuff (Sep 24, 2000)

This message is in response to Helping Always. The idea you share to us about only consuming unprocessed foods makes sense to me. I am going to try it. I will try anything. I have had IBS for 2 years now. I have tried anti-spasmotic drugs (Levsinex)and have recently started Wellbutrin (anti dep). My doc believes that I am depressed because of my stomach issues and my stomach issues depress me. He thinks if I am in a "happier" place I will stop thinking about my stomach. I have started excersizing every day (2 mi = treadmill) and hope to reap some benefits. I am not seeing any results thus far. I have crazy symptoms. I am usually ok in the morning. I don't eat breakfast, just a cup of cammomile tea. After I eat lunch.........1/2 goes by and I am in the bathroom. The cramps are horrific. My husband says I need to EMBRACE my ailment. Obviously he has never felt this kind of pain. I have NEVER heard or seen anyone on these boards claim to be cured of all symptoms, that is why your post caught my eye. I have been told by too many docs that I will have this my whole life. How depressing is that????????? What I want to ask you, Helping Always, is for a typical meal plan for a day. I just want to get some idea of what you eat. I am envious you found a cure. I am so happy that there may be hope for me when I was just about to lose all of it. If you don't want to post here, my email address is MillerMJ12###aol.com. Thanks a million.


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## gaylestuff (Sep 24, 2000)

This message is in response to Helping Always. The idea you share to us about only consuming unprocessed foods makes sense to me. I am going to try it. I will try anything. I have had IBS for 2 years now. I have tried anti-spasmotic drugs (Levsinex)and have recently started Wellbutrin (anti dep). My doc believes that I am depressed because of my stomach issues and my stomach issues depress me. He thinks if I am in a "happier" place I will stop thinking about my stomach. I have started excersizing every day (2 mi = treadmill) and hope to reap some benefits. I am not seeing any results thus far. I have crazy symptoms. I am usually ok in the morning. I don't eat breakfast, just a cup of cammomile tea. After I eat lunch.........1/2 goes by and I am in the bathroom. The cramps are horrific. My husband says I need to EMBRACE my ailment. Obviously he has never felt this kind of pain. I have NEVER heard or seen anyone on these boards claim to be cured of all symptoms, that is why your post caught my eye. I have been told by too many docs that I will have this my whole life. How depressing is that????????? What I want to ask you, Helping Always, is for a typical meal plan for a day. I just want to get some idea of what you eat. I am envious you found a cure. I am so happy that there may be hope for me when I was just about to lose all of it. If you don't want to post here, my email address is MillerMJ12###aol.com. Thanks a million.


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Just great, Darlene !Phew!! LOL.


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Just great, Darlene !Phew!! LOL.


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Got the gif to work!


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Got the gif to work!


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Darlene I think I can get this gif to work







Cheer Up!


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Darlene I think I can get this gif to work







Cheer Up!


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Edited this. there was something I didn't understand. Thought to check my e-mail. I better stop posting


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Edited this. there was something I didn't understand. Thought to check my e-mail. I better stop posting


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Darlene So how is the gas? Can you tell us how much it has reduced by since you gave up gingerale?Since you want details, this is the diet recommended for fructose intolerance. You might want to get ideas for drinks here but I must admit I didn't like the choices because they mainly recommend diet drinks. Actually I liked their first few choices  , too much I am afraid (Have a look at the section on beverages







)and i have been afraid to recommend them to you. So I have not been saying much on the subject of drinksThe Fructose Intolerance diet- 15g of fructose is tolerated by most.Items with less than 0.2 gm/fructose no more than 5 servings a dayBarley 1 cupBread white homemade no fructose 1 sliceCereals (cooked)Buck wheat grouts 1/4 cupFarina(Cream of wheat) 1/2 cupGrits 1/2 cupOatmeal ,regular or quick 1/2 cupCereals (Ready to eat)Rice puffed 1 cupWheat, puffed 1 cupHyVee English Muffin 1/2 muffin plainFlour, rye 1/3 cupFlour, white 1/4 cupPasta white cooked 1/2 cupPopcorn 1 cupRice white cooked 1/2 cupSoda crackers 6 squaresTortilla, flour 1 7" shellno more than 2-4 servings/day (0-0.2 gm fructose)Artichoke 1/2 med (2 oz)Broad beans cooked 1/2 cupCelery 1/2 cupChives 1 tspDandelion Greens 1/4 cupEndive 1/2 cupEscarole 1/2 cupMushrooms 1/2 cupMustard Greens 1/2 cupOlives 10Potato mashed baked no skin 1/2 cupPotato French fried 2 ozPotato hash browns <2ozShallots , raw, chopped 1 tbspSpinach 1/2 cupSwiss Chard 1/2 cupTurnip Greens 1/2 cup Water Cress , raw 1 sprig0.2-0.45 gm fructose No more than 2 servings a dayBread whole wheat homemade no fructose 1 sliceBuckwheat 1/4 cupChow mein Noodles 1/2 cupFlour whole wheat 1/2 cupGraham Cracker 1 square 3 inOat flour 1/2 cupPasta whole wheat flour(cooked) 1/2 cupReady to eat cerealOat Cereal 3/4 cupWheat Shredded 2/3 cupRice (brown)(cooked) 1/2 cupRye cracker 1 medium0.3-0.6 gm of fructose No more than 2 servings a weekAsparagus (cooked) 1/4 cupBeans snap canned drained 1/2 cupBroccoli 1/2 cupBrussel sprouts 1/2 cupCabbage raw shredded 1/2 cupCauliflower raw 1/2 cupCucumber raw 1/2 cupGreen Peppers raw 1/4 cupLeeks, cooked 1/2 leekLettuce Iceberg 2 leavesMung beans sprouted raw 1/2 cupRadishes raw 10 eachSummer squash 1/2 cupZucchini 1/2 cupAvoid all other veggies including turnips, sweet potatoes, yams, carrots, beets , corn, eggplant, peas, o nions tomatoes and winter squashFruits and Fruit JuicesAllowed 1-2 times weeklyAvocado 1 eachLemons raw peeled 1 eachLime raw peeled 1 eachRhubarb raw diced 1 cupAvoid all other fruit juies and jams and jelliesBeverages Allowed:Alcohol 1 fluid ounce Gin, Rum, Whiskey, Vodka-Russian, Wine dry whiteDiet carbonated beverages most flavors- no citrus basedSugar free powdered lemonadeMilkCoffee, Tea brewed blackAvoid beer, fruit juices and drinks, sugar sweetened carbonated beverages, sweet wines, sweetened powdered drinks, sweetened chocolate milk, vegetable juicesSpices to limit or avoidChervilCoriander seeds or powderDill weed driedGarlic PowderGinger Hot Chilli PepperOnion saltparsley driedPumpkin Pie seasoningOnion PowderAllowed MiscelaaneousBouillon, butter margarine ,Olive Oil and Rice vinegar 1 tbspnCocoa baking powder, unsweetened or dietCarob 2 tbspnDutch 2 tbspnNatural 1 tbspnSugar free gelatin 1/2 cupWorcestshire sauce 1 tbspnAvoid apple cidar vinegar, soy sauce with fructose, tomato based sauces, condimentsAllowed cheeses American, Cheddar, Cream, Mozzarella, Neufchatel, Swiss Cottage RicotttaAllowed Milk -all including buttermilkYogurt plainAdult Formulas allowedIsocal HNNutren 1.0 unflavoredNutren 1.5 unflavoredOsmoliteOsmolite HNUltracalSweeteners allowedBarley Malt syrup, Brown Rice syrup, Cane sugar, corn syrup solidsDextrin, Dextrose, Glucose, Glucose polymers, Polycose, Moducal, Glycogen, Iso maltose, Lactose, Light corn syrup, Maltitol, Malto dextrins, Maltose, Starch,Aspartame- Equal, Nutra Sweet, SaccharinSweet N Low, Sugar Twin(can be heated) Sweet One (can be heated)Allowed foods eggs,unprocessed meat poultry, fish shell fish crab crayfish, organ meats., soy protein isolatesAvoid cereal products containing germ or added untolerated sugar, commercial cookies, ckaes and breads, Instant flavored cereal,breaded meats, sugar or honey treated meat, sweetened chocolate milk, sweetened condensed milk, fruited sweetened yougurt(yougurt vanilla or lemon sweetened with aspartame is fine). Avoid sorbitol since it requires the enzyme fructokinase to digest itThis is for the vegetarians. If you need to go on a fructose restricted diet for a month you might(!) be able to toleratethe following amounts per day(recommended for the first month since you have to eat something)LegumesChickpeas(cooked) 1/4-1/2cupLentils(cooked) 1/4 cupLima beans(cooked)1/4 cupMung beans (cooked) 1/4 cupNutsPistachios 2-3 tbspnPeanut Butter sugar free 1 tbspnSeeds and grainsAmaranth(cooked) 1/4 cupMillet(Cooked) 1/4 cupPumpkin seeds dried 1tbspnSesame , dried 2 tbspnTahini 1 tbspnSoy Products(cooked) 1/4 cupSoy Protein isolates UnlimitedTofu, raw 1/4 blockAvoid baked beans, bean soups, Nuts-all others, other dried beans, pork 'n beansRefried beans


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Darlene So how is the gas? Can you tell us how much it has reduced by since you gave up gingerale?Since you want details, this is the diet recommended for fructose intolerance. You might want to get ideas for drinks here but I must admit I didn't like the choices because they mainly recommend diet drinks. Actually I liked their first few choices  , too much I am afraid (Have a look at the section on beverages







)and i have been afraid to recommend them to you. So I have not been saying much on the subject of drinksThe Fructose Intolerance diet- 15g of fructose is tolerated by most.Items with less than 0.2 gm/fructose no more than 5 servings a dayBarley 1 cupBread white homemade no fructose 1 sliceCereals (cooked)Buck wheat grouts 1/4 cupFarina(Cream of wheat) 1/2 cupGrits 1/2 cupOatmeal ,regular or quick 1/2 cupCereals (Ready to eat)Rice puffed 1 cupWheat, puffed 1 cupHyVee English Muffin 1/2 muffin plainFlour, rye 1/3 cupFlour, white 1/4 cupPasta white cooked 1/2 cupPopcorn 1 cupRice white cooked 1/2 cupSoda crackers 6 squaresTortilla, flour 1 7" shellno more than 2-4 servings/day (0-0.2 gm fructose)Artichoke 1/2 med (2 oz)Broad beans cooked 1/2 cupCelery 1/2 cupChives 1 tspDandelion Greens 1/4 cupEndive 1/2 cupEscarole 1/2 cupMushrooms 1/2 cupMustard Greens 1/2 cupOlives 10Potato mashed baked no skin 1/2 cupPotato French fried 2 ozPotato hash browns <2ozShallots , raw, chopped 1 tbspSpinach 1/2 cupSwiss Chard 1/2 cupTurnip Greens 1/2 cup Water Cress , raw 1 sprig0.2-0.45 gm fructose No more than 2 servings a dayBread whole wheat homemade no fructose 1 sliceBuckwheat 1/4 cupChow mein Noodles 1/2 cupFlour whole wheat 1/2 cupGraham Cracker 1 square 3 inOat flour 1/2 cupPasta whole wheat flour(cooked) 1/2 cupReady to eat cerealOat Cereal 3/4 cupWheat Shredded 2/3 cupRice (brown)(cooked) 1/2 cupRye cracker 1 medium0.3-0.6 gm of fructose No more than 2 servings a weekAsparagus (cooked) 1/4 cupBeans snap canned drained 1/2 cupBroccoli 1/2 cupBrussel sprouts 1/2 cupCabbage raw shredded 1/2 cupCauliflower raw 1/2 cupCucumber raw 1/2 cupGreen Peppers raw 1/4 cupLeeks, cooked 1/2 leekLettuce Iceberg 2 leavesMung beans sprouted raw 1/2 cupRadishes raw 10 eachSummer squash 1/2 cupZucchini 1/2 cupAvoid all other veggies including turnips, sweet potatoes, yams, carrots, beets , corn, eggplant, peas, o nions tomatoes and winter squashFruits and Fruit JuicesAllowed 1-2 times weeklyAvocado 1 eachLemons raw peeled 1 eachLime raw peeled 1 eachRhubarb raw diced 1 cupAvoid all other fruit juies and jams and jelliesBeverages Allowed:Alcohol 1 fluid ounce Gin, Rum, Whiskey, Vodka-Russian, Wine dry whiteDiet carbonated beverages most flavors- no citrus basedSugar free powdered lemonadeMilkCoffee, Tea brewed blackAvoid beer, fruit juices and drinks, sugar sweetened carbonated beverages, sweet wines, sweetened powdered drinks, sweetened chocolate milk, vegetable juicesSpices to limit or avoidChervilCoriander seeds or powderDill weed driedGarlic PowderGinger Hot Chilli PepperOnion saltparsley driedPumpkin Pie seasoningOnion PowderAllowed MiscelaaneousBouillon, butter margarine ,Olive Oil and Rice vinegar 1 tbspnCocoa baking powder, unsweetened or dietCarob 2 tbspnDutch 2 tbspnNatural 1 tbspnSugar free gelatin 1/2 cupWorcestshire sauce 1 tbspnAvoid apple cidar vinegar, soy sauce with fructose, tomato based sauces, condimentsAllowed cheeses American, Cheddar, Cream, Mozzarella, Neufchatel, Swiss Cottage RicotttaAllowed Milk -all including buttermilkYogurt plainAdult Formulas allowedIsocal HNNutren 1.0 unflavoredNutren 1.5 unflavoredOsmoliteOsmolite HNUltracalSweeteners allowedBarley Malt syrup, Brown Rice syrup, Cane sugar, corn syrup solidsDextrin, Dextrose, Glucose, Glucose polymers, Polycose, Moducal, Glycogen, Iso maltose, Lactose, Light corn syrup, Maltitol, Malto dextrins, Maltose, Starch,Aspartame- Equal, Nutra Sweet, SaccharinSweet N Low, Sugar Twin(can be heated) Sweet One (can be heated)Allowed foods eggs,unprocessed meat poultry, fish shell fish crab crayfish, organ meats., soy protein isolatesAvoid cereal products containing germ or added untolerated sugar, commercial cookies, ckaes and breads, Instant flavored cereal,breaded meats, sugar or honey treated meat, sweetened chocolate milk, sweetened condensed milk, fruited sweetened yougurt(yougurt vanilla or lemon sweetened with aspartame is fine). Avoid sorbitol since it requires the enzyme fructokinase to digest itThis is for the vegetarians. If you need to go on a fructose restricted diet for a month you might(!) be able to toleratethe following amounts per day(recommended for the first month since you have to eat something)LegumesChickpeas(cooked) 1/4-1/2cupLentils(cooked) 1/4 cupLima beans(cooked)1/4 cupMung beans (cooked) 1/4 cupNutsPistachios 2-3 tbspnPeanut Butter sugar free 1 tbspnSeeds and grainsAmaranth(cooked) 1/4 cupMillet(Cooked) 1/4 cupPumpkin seeds dried 1tbspnSesame , dried 2 tbspnTahini 1 tbspnSoy Products(cooked) 1/4 cupSoy Protein isolates UnlimitedTofu, raw 1/4 blockAvoid baked beans, bean soups, Nuts-all others, other dried beans, pork 'n beansRefried beans


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Wow, just when things were getting exciting on here yesterday afternoon, our internet service went down. We just got back online, and here I am. Yes, I am soooo addicted to this IBS board.







Bonnie, Thanks for the nice image that you posted on here. It made my day!!







Ok, back to business. Thanks a million for the diet, Bonnie. I scanned it briefly, and I am going to print it out and try to find something to eat! It's not easy avoiding fructose. This week has been especially difficult, since I developed gastritis earlier this week. I must admit that I cheated and had some gingerale to settle my stomach a couple of times this week. I haven't noticed much reduction in gas the past few days, but I haven't exactly been avoiding all fructose either. So to give it a fair trial, I will print out this diet and try to get stricter. The gas is just awful! It's depressing counting farts!







That's the update for now! Darlene


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Wow, just when things were getting exciting on here yesterday afternoon, our internet service went down. We just got back online, and here I am. Yes, I am soooo addicted to this IBS board.







Bonnie, Thanks for the nice image that you posted on here. It made my day!!







Ok, back to business. Thanks a million for the diet, Bonnie. I scanned it briefly, and I am going to print it out and try to find something to eat! It's not easy avoiding fructose. This week has been especially difficult, since I developed gastritis earlier this week. I must admit that I cheated and had some gingerale to settle my stomach a couple of times this week. I haven't noticed much reduction in gas the past few days, but I haven't exactly been avoiding all fructose either. So to give it a fair trial, I will print out this diet and try to get stricter. The gas is just awful! It's depressing counting farts!







That's the update for now! Darlene


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

This board is addictive for sure!







Darlene, Some thoughts about this diet.The highlight of this diet is what is allowed in unlimited amounts, "Allowed foods - eggs, unprocessed meat poultry, fish shell fish crab crayfish, organ meats, soy protein isolates"-it takes us back to that high protein diet, back to flux's diet, back to scamp68's diet.The second thing is it is easier to stick to a restrictive diet like this if you know for sure you are fructose intolerant. That;s why the breath tests are very important. They are a breeze and you find out the easy way if you have a problem with one of the sugars. Are you sure you can't convince your doc to let you do the breath tests? You get a lot of info with minimal effort. They are really worth doing, don't you think?As far as cheating on the gingerale goes, I know !It is so difficult to find a refreshing drink without fructose in it! I don't blame you wanting to drink the gingerale. But obviously giving up on the gingerale did not produce the dramatic results we had hoped for.So you may be barking up the wrong tree. The breath tests would tell you in a day. You wouldn't have to put in all this effort and get discouraged in the process. So really think about the breath tests, won't you?


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

This board is addictive for sure!







Darlene, Some thoughts about this diet.The highlight of this diet is what is allowed in unlimited amounts, "Allowed foods - eggs, unprocessed meat poultry, fish shell fish crab crayfish, organ meats, soy protein isolates"-it takes us back to that high protein diet, back to flux's diet, back to scamp68's diet.The second thing is it is easier to stick to a restrictive diet like this if you know for sure you are fructose intolerant. That;s why the breath tests are very important. They are a breeze and you find out the easy way if you have a problem with one of the sugars. Are you sure you can't convince your doc to let you do the breath tests? You get a lot of info with minimal effort. They are really worth doing, don't you think?As far as cheating on the gingerale goes, I know !It is so difficult to find a refreshing drink without fructose in it! I don't blame you wanting to drink the gingerale. But obviously giving up on the gingerale did not produce the dramatic results we had hoped for.So you may be barking up the wrong tree. The breath tests would tell you in a day. You wouldn't have to put in all this effort and get discouraged in the process. So really think about the breath tests, won't you?


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Darlene, something has comeup, so I am out of here.Good luck. Anytime you get depressed come and look at the gif I posted. Hope it makes you smile


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Darlene, something has comeup, so I am out of here.Good luck. Anytime you get depressed come and look at the gif I posted. Hope it makes you smile


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Thanks, Bonnie!! Hope everything is well with you.







I will check with my doctor about fructose testing at my next appt. Darlene


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Thanks, Bonnie!! Hope everything is well with you.







I will check with my doctor about fructose testing at my next appt. Darlene


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Darlene- another thing. I hope you hear that hammer ( remember earlier on in the thread?) all the way to the doc's office. If not keep coming back here and we will make sure it haunts you.


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Darlene- another thing. I hope you hear that hammer ( remember earlier on in the thread?) all the way to the doc's office. If not keep coming back here and we will make sure it haunts you.


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Bonnie,Are you referring to the hammering of January 27th??







ouch!! A person doesn't forget that kind of thing.


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Bonnie,Are you referring to the hammering of January 27th??







ouch!! A person doesn't forget that kind of thing.


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## gasprob (Jul 15, 2000)

I've been reading the post about reducing gas. I have had a bad smelly gas and body odor for a year and a half. i don't eat any dairy, fructose and wheat products. I still produc gas. What can I eat other than rice that won't produce gas.


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## gasprob (Jul 15, 2000)

I've been reading the post about reducing gas. I have had a bad smelly gas and body odor for a year and a half. i don't eat any dairy, fructose and wheat products. I still produc gas. What can I eat other than rice that won't produce gas.


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## stinky too (May 21, 1999)

Just wondering, can your GP give this test or does it have to be a GI Doctor? I am betting most Doctors haven't a clue as to what this test is about.


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## stinky too (May 21, 1999)

Just wondering, can your GP give this test or does it have to be a GI Doctor? I am betting most Doctors haven't a clue as to what this test is about.


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

I would say your best bet is to find what is common to flux's normoflatugenic diet and the fructose intolerance diet, gasprob. Good luck!


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

I would say your best bet is to find what is common to flux's normoflatugenic diet and the fructose intolerance diet, gasprob. Good luck!


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Joyce, I think you are right that most doctors don't order this type of test. I would guess that both a GP or a GI doc could order them. They would most likely send you to a lab to have it done. My doctor has a lab in his office building, but it's only for blood work. He orders bloodwork constantly, since it's so convenient







, but he has never suggested the food intolerance testing. When I asked him, he wasn't too keen on the idea but didn't elaborate at the time. He just dismissed the suggestion and changed the subject. I'll bring it up again at my next appt. Should I take the hammer with me, flux?














Darlene


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Joyce, I think you are right that most doctors don't order this type of test. I would guess that both a GP or a GI doc could order them. They would most likely send you to a lab to have it done. My doctor has a lab in his office building, but it's only for blood work. He orders bloodwork constantly, since it's so convenient







, but he has never suggested the food intolerance testing. When I asked him, he wasn't too keen on the idea but didn't elaborate at the time. He just dismissed the suggestion and changed the subject. I'll bring it up again at my next appt. Should I take the hammer with me, flux?














Darlene


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:Should I take the hammer with me, flux?


You bet.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:Should I take the hammer with me, flux?


You bet.


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

He wasn't going to let that one pass by unanswered, LOL


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

He wasn't going to let that one pass by unanswered, LOL


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Darlene, where have you gone?







Is your internet connection down again? Or is it-While I can understand all this hammering driving you deaf, have you gone blind as well? You can see I am terribly bored resorting to lame humor like this. Come back soon! flux is dancing with joy that you are going to fast for two days. Oh maybe







-Did you start the fast already and have already fainted like you thought you would. Help!


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Darlene, where have you gone?







Is your internet connection down again? Or is it-While I can understand all this hammering driving you deaf, have you gone blind as well? You can see I am terribly bored resorting to lame humor like this. Come back soon! flux is dancing with joy that you are going to fast for two days. Oh maybe







-Did you start the fast already and have already fainted like you thought you would. Help!


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

flux- what do you suppose has happened to Darlene? If she has fainted and needs an IV hookup and I see her agitated husband, I'll point him in your direction. Let me state for the record I had nothing to do with it(her fainting).In the mean time I have a request to make of you, flux. Entertain me please







You don't know how bored I am. Can you please tell me what that even funnier line that you had in mind on 1/24.? I think we are all in a mood to hear it now.


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

flux- what do you suppose has happened to Darlene? If she has fainted and needs an IV hookup and I see her agitated husband, I'll point him in your direction. Let me state for the record I had nothing to do with it(her fainting).In the mean time I have a request to make of you, flux. Entertain me please







You don't know how bored I am. Can you please tell me what that even funnier line that you had in mind on 1/24.? I think we are all in a mood to hear it now.


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

flux and darlene, Something has again come up and I will be gone on a family emergency for a while. Not fair- while you all have fun. Anyway got to go. Will catch up with you by email when I can. Darlene- I hope you are ok. flux maybe you can tell me the joke by e-mail if you don't put it out here. Ciao!


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

flux and darlene, Something has again come up and I will be gone on a family emergency for a while. Not fair- while you all have fun. Anyway got to go. Will catch up with you by email when I can. Darlene- I hope you are ok. flux maybe you can tell me the joke by e-mail if you don't put it out here. Ciao!


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

See your email.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

See your email.


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Bonnie, I just emailed you. Yes, my internet was down again!







It looks like you and flux had some fun while I was away!







You dance quite well, flux. Cool glasses, dude!







No, I haven't fainted yet, but I haven't fasted yet. LOL Flux, I noticed that you just told someone on another thread that anything over 50 farts a day is abnormal. So if I count and pass 49 farts, will I be considered normal?







It's my goal to be normal. I just might hold that last fart until Midnight!!Darlene


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Bonnie, I just emailed you. Yes, my internet was down again!







It looks like you and flux had some fun while I was away!







You dance quite well, flux. Cool glasses, dude!







No, I haven't fainted yet, but I haven't fasted yet. LOL Flux, I noticed that you just told someone on another thread that anything over 50 farts a day is abnormal. So if I count and pass 49 farts, will I be considered normal?







It's my goal to be normal. I just might hold that last fart until Midnight!!Darlene


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

LOL Darlene







Squeeeeeeeze them shut. LOLOn the upside, if ya reach 50, you can stop counting.







BQ


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

LOL Darlene







Squeeeeeeeze them shut. LOLOn the upside, if ya reach 50, you can stop counting.







BQ


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

BQ,LOL!!!! You're too funny!







BTW, my tongue finally got better. You remember that conversation, right?


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

BQ,LOL!!!! You're too funny!







BTW, my tongue finally got better. You remember that conversation, right?


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## stinky too (May 21, 1999)

50 farts a day ?? Do you count them all or just the stinky ones ?







those are the only ones that bother me......


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## stinky too (May 21, 1999)

50 farts a day ?? Do you count them all or just the stinky ones ?







those are the only ones that bother me......


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Joyce,I was talking about counting all of them, odorous and non-odorous. LOL Yes, it would be well over 50 times. I haven't counted though. It's depressing enough dealing with it, let alone counting them!!







Darlene


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## Darlene D (Feb 11, 2000)

Joyce,I was talking about counting all of them, odorous and non-odorous. LOL Yes, it would be well over 50 times. I haven't counted though. It's depressing enough dealing with it, let alone counting them!!







Darlene


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

Well Darlene, At least your







cleared up.







Have a good weekend.







BQ


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

Well Darlene, At least your







cleared up.







Have a good weekend.







BQ


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## hotep (Feb 7, 2002)

I am a first time user and intended to post a reply but instead started a whole new one. the titel is gas with screen name hotep. I have been motivated with the struggle against ibs by all of you and feel indebted. Please join me.


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## hotep (Feb 7, 2002)

I am a first time user and intended to post a reply but instead started a whole new one. the titel is gas with screen name hotep. I have been motivated with the struggle against ibs by all of you and feel indebted. Please join me.


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## Mere79 (Jun 7, 2001)

I want to apologize for the long post. I have written before about how the pill (Birth Control) caused my IBS to be worse. Now after being off the pill I am virtually symptom free! I have been on and off the pill for about 2 years. I have been on many different types of pills through out this time. I noticed my symptoms four months after I began taking Loestrin. At the time I didn't know what it was and I just thought it would go away. For other reasons I went of the pill. Then later I started again and three months later I was having IBS symptoms again. Almost 10 months later I was hospitalized and it was then that I was diagnosed there with IBS. I stayed on the pill for a while and tried other kinds. I went on and off and made myself a guinea pig. Now I have been off the pill since September and I am feeling great. I have no attacks. I am not constipated. I do have gas, but that doesn't bother me that much. I just wanted to write again because maybe I can help others with IBS. If you are on the pill maybe my experiences can help. Thanks, Meredith


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## Mere79 (Jun 7, 2001)

I want to apologize for the long post. I have written before about how the pill (Birth Control) caused my IBS to be worse. Now after being off the pill I am virtually symptom free! I have been on and off the pill for about 2 years. I have been on many different types of pills through out this time. I noticed my symptoms four months after I began taking Loestrin. At the time I didn't know what it was and I just thought it would go away. For other reasons I went of the pill. Then later I started again and three months later I was having IBS symptoms again. Almost 10 months later I was hospitalized and it was then that I was diagnosed there with IBS. I stayed on the pill for a while and tried other kinds. I went on and off and made myself a guinea pig. Now I have been off the pill since September and I am feeling great. I have no attacks. I am not constipated. I do have gas, but that doesn't bother me that much. I just wanted to write again because maybe I can help others with IBS. If you are on the pill maybe my experiences can help. Thanks, Meredith


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## shelly2 (Nov 10, 1999)

Darlene - how do you cope with your farting when the family is around - do you hide or just let go and what do they say?


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## shelly2 (Nov 10, 1999)

Darlene - how do you cope with your farting when the family is around - do you hide or just let go and what do they say?


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