# does anyone else only have problems when you eat certain foods?



## Athena_ (Jan 8, 2014)

just stumbled upon this forum and wanted to know if there was anyone in the same boat.

my doctor diagnosed me with ibs last year. I'm still learning about it. when I eat healthy and drink plenty of water, I have normal, quick, painless bowel movements every day. when I don't eat right, even if it's just a small slice of pizza or something, within the next 24 hours I get severe abdominal pain which is relieved by a bowel movement (sometimes loose, sometimes straight diarrhea) and it takes me 20-30 minutes, usually, to 'finish up'. I don't eat a wide variety of food, which is extremely boring, but I'd rather that than deal with the pain and embarrassment of an attack! plus I'm too scared to try new foods to see what I can/can't tolerate.

from what I've read online, most people with ibs seem to have trouble regardless of the type of food that they eat so I'm wondering if my problem could be something else..? or is it normal? anyone else out there with the same issue?


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Depends on what you read, other people say everyone with IBS is triggered only by foods and whatever diet they are promoting is the one and only treatment.

Different people have different triggers. Some people only react when they eat high fodmap foods (a lot of people do well on a low fodmap die), or too much fat. Some react more to how they eat (wait too long to eat, eat too much at one time). Some people react only to physical or emotional stress.


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## legbuh (Jan 9, 2005)

Yes, most IBSers are like that. Certain foods cause problems.

The best thing to do is keep a food diary, and dont "guess" as the problem.

Example, I know I'm lactose intollerant. Give me a glass of milk and it will be through me in 1-2 hours.

Now, I used to think this was why I couldn't eat pizza.. the cheese was dairy. But, cheese doesn't contain lactose, and it turns out it was the tomato sauce (fructose!) causing me problems! I used to order pizza with no cheese for years and assume my issues were because of something else. After much trial and error, I found out it was the sauce, not the cheese.

Thats just an example of how a very detailed food diary will help.

In the long run, though I believe all these food allergies and intollerances are caused by the western diet and culture (ie, over rxing of antibiotics, antibiotic soap, etc.. etc) messing up our flora as well as the ecosystem around us. Not all bacteria is bad. Most is good! Mother nature knows what it's doing.

We can supplement our flora with the right probiotics (ie, yogurt, cultured foods such as kombuca, kefir, saurkraut, etc), but that will never replace the flora. For that, look into FMT or fecal transplants. So simple, so obvious and finally catching on.


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## Diane N John Lukasser (Jan 14, 2014)

I was just diagnosed with IBS in August 2013. My mornings are the worst...but in the afternoon it does get better. I find that caffine, alcohol, beef, beans, cabbage, raw broccoli, cauliflower, greasy deep fried foods, fake sweeteners affect me. I tried "Align- GI Tract" but it made me really gassy, bloated and had more bouts of diarreah. I think align is for people with constipation IBS...not with the other kind of IBS. Now, I'm going back to aloe vera juice and coenzyme q10. Just drinking 2 oz's of aloe vera juice a day really helps. coenzyme q10 firms up your stools too. I don't have to be on the toilet all morning long. It's soo embarrassing. I still have headaches and bad days...but if you know what triggers you, then you can avoid those foods. I drink about 4 large glasses of peppermint tea a day and that helps too.


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## chlorophyll (Jul 31, 2013)

Diane N John Lukasser said:


> I was just diagnosed with IBS in August 2013. My mornings are the worst...but in the afternoon it does get better. I find that caffine, alcohol, beef, beans, cabbage, raw broccoli, cauliflower, greasy deep fried foods, fake sweeteners affect me. I tried "Align- GI Tract" but it made me really gassy, bloated and had more bouts of diarreah. I think align is for people with constipation IBS...not with the other kind of IBS. Now, I'm going back to aloe vera juice and coenzyme q10. Just drinking 2 oz's of aloe vera juice a day really helps. coenzyme q10 firms up your stools too. I don't have to be on the toilet all morning long. It's soo embarrassing. I still have headaches and bad days...but if you know what triggers you, then you can avoid those foods. I drink about 4 large glasses of peppermint tea a day and that helps too.


I get similar symptoms, and I also get the same benefits that you get from aloe but I get it from chlorophyll. No surprises that they are both green. I wonder if the aloe tastes any better, though. That's something I'll have to consider once this bottle of chlorophyll finally runs out.


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## thebigboo (Dec 17, 2007)

Pizza sets me and my husband off as well. I agree with the previous posters that you should keep a food diary so you know what is causing your diarrhea and pain.

If you normally have regular bowel movements without pain (that makes you pretty lucky!), it might be as simple as avoiding pizza or perhaps adding daily yogurt to your diet. I like Stonyfield because they have extra probiotics in there that other yogurts don't.

If its more serious or frequent, try a probiotic supplement. I have IBS-D and I take Align probiotic and it has worked well for me.


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## chlorophyll (Jul 31, 2013)

thebigboo said:


> Pizza sets me and my husband off as well.


I'd bet it is the cheese. Specifically, the melted cheese. I'd take a guess that you also can't eat cheesy pastas, or maybe things like toasted cheese sandwiches, or a homemade microwave pizza (slice of bread, slice of cheese, blob of tomato sauce on top in the center, microwaved for a minute).

I can eat cheese from the fridge all day, but melt it and it punches me in the intestines within the hour.


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## legbuh (Jan 9, 2005)

chlorophyll said:


> I'd bet it is the cheese. Specifically, the melted cheese. I'd take a guess that you also can't eat cheesy pastas, or maybe things like toasted cheese sandwiches, or a homemade microwave pizza (slice of bread, slice of cheese, blob of tomato sauce on top in the center, microwaved for a minute).
> 
> I can eat cheese from the fridge all day, but melt it and it punches me in the intestines within the hour.


I just don't get this. Be more specific with your food diary and Ill think you find that cheese and melted cheese really are the same.

Do you ever just eat melted cheese? And this would be cheese that, when not melted, you can eat all day? I bet not. And I bet the common denominator here is what you eat WITH the melted cheese.


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## chlorophyll (Jul 31, 2013)

legbuh said:


> I just don't get this. Be more specific with your food diary and Ill think you find that cheese and melted cheese really are the same.
> 
> Do you ever just eat melted cheese? And this would be cheese that, when not melted, you can eat all day? I bet not. And I bet the common denominator here is what you eat WITH the melted cheese.


I'm not sure what it is about my previous post that was ambiguous. I mentioned some fairly basic foods, such as bread or toast with just cheese, or cheese plus sauce.

I can eat a block of cheese all day every day and have nothing come of it. I can eat salads with shredded cheese in them. I can eat a piece of bread with a slice of cheese on it. But if you give me something with cheese that is melted and oily, such as pizza, such as toasted cheese sandwhich, such as cheesy pasta, such as (insert item with melted cheese) then I'll be in the bathroom within the hour. How much more cause->effect does one need? I'm sure that some of the foods with melted cheese ALSO have other properties that make me ill, but when you boil it down to bread + cheese = fine and bread + melted cheese = sick... ?

Your bets would not pay-off.


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Some odd things like that can be a conditioned response. If you got really sick (maybe because there was too much oil with the melted cheese or you just had bad IBS for other reasons while you were eating things with melted cheese the brain can sometimes make a weird connection and set off symptoms to "get that stuff out" because it thinks it is bad.

Makes sense back when we were foraging if the brain sensed something that was bad before it would make it go away before it could hurt you again as you may eat some odd things once in awhile because you were hungry and it looked good at the time.

I had something weird like that with raisins. I could eat all the grapes I wanted, I could eat dried every other fruit (including currants which are a dried grape, just a different one from common raisins) but if I ate raisins I would throw them back up. The first time I ate raisin bran I got really sick and somehow it got stuck. Every time I got sick eating raisins it reinforced the connection. I did manage to break this, but it took one day deciding I wouldn't even try any raisins and didn't have any for like 5-7 years. Long enough that connection in my brain finally decayed. I can eat raisins now, at least in other things. I still am not brave enough to just eat a box, but I don't have to avoid trail mix or cookies with raisins in them anymore.

Most commonly people talk about this with varieties of alcohol. Get really drunk and sick on a particular beverage and people will often say they can't drink it anymore as just a taste and all that sick comes back.


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## chlorophyll (Jul 31, 2013)

Kathleen M. said:


> Some odd things like that can be a conditioned response. If you got really sick (maybe because there was too much oil with the melted cheese or you just had bad IBS for other reasons while you were eating things with melted cheese the brain can sometimes make a weird connection and set off symptoms to "get that stuff out" because it thinks it is bad.
> 
> Makes sense back when we were foraging if the brain sensed something that was bad before it would make it go away before it could hurt you again as you may eat some odd things once in awhile because you were hungry and it looked good at the time.
> 
> ...


As much as that may be based on some truth, I don't for a moment attribute any of that to my own issues with cheese or my guess that the other person might be the same. The comment about the oil off cheese is perhaps valid, however, and something I've wondered myself. But really, do I just go and find a way to separate as much cheese-oil as possible and consume it and wait and see, and similarly with the leftover non-oiled melted cheese? If I cared enough I'd perhaps bother with such a painful experiment, but to what gain? In the end you can't order food that contains melted cheese, and request that all of the cheese oil be removed. You couldn't do that with a cheesy pasta. Simply, melted cheese, and melted-cheese oil, are for all intents and purposes one and the same. Further to that, greasy / oily foods in general can also be a bucket of fun for IBS symptoms, so really, there is reason at minimum to suspect a link between food that is or has potential to be oily and IBS symptoms. The exact link... I do not know. I'll leave that for people who are meant to work this stuff out for a living to figure-out proper.

But it's really stretching for an untruth to suggest that some property of melted cheese isn't the culprit in my case, and instead it's some conditioned response. If that was the case then all other triggers become suspect, and those of everyone else with IBS. Either something specific is identified through observation as being a trigger, or it is not. I like cheese. I like bread. I like cheese on bread. I like melted cheese on bread but it makes me sick! I like pizza, but pizza makes me sick!. I like pasta. I like pasta with cheese, but because it melts through it I become sick. If I could think of more examples I could go on, but the point is made.

I can't remember the last time I ate JUST melted cheese, but you are asking for me to be blind to the obvious when simple foods like melted cheese on bread, or toast, (or pizza or pasta bake or tuna bake or any pasta, etc) makes me unwell. Whereas eating cheese from the fridge (or room temp) does absolutely nothing but satisfy my hunger for awhile.

This is like some form of political correctness for cheese, and I've offended people for daring to suggest that certain types of cheese are patently a problem. How cheesist of me.

Another trigger of mine is the flavoring in 2-min noodle type packs of noodles. I can tell you, point black, that not draining the flavored water out of noodles makes me sick, whereas draining it, or simply not using the flavoring at all, does not make me sick. Does anyone wish to contest this factual observation I've made regarding 2-min noodles and the flavoring over the decades I've been alive?

It feels like people are just trying to argue for the sake of argument when it couldn't be any more clear to me that cheese when melted into or onto food, for whatever reason, makes me ill. Take the melted cheese away, even from things like pizza (just leaving the rest of the toppings and base), and all is right with the world as far as my stomach is concerned. You wouldn't argue that water maybe isn't wet. I'm not one of these cute people who eats something and feels a little "off" the NEXT day, and this just started "last month". When something is going to make me ill it's within THE HOUR. Cause -> effect becomes very apparent very quickly once you realize that it's not normal to have such an unwell stomach for all of your life after eating a meal. You soon notice obvious trends and begin to pay attention to the obvious triggers and see them for what they are. After all, is this NOT the whole point of people keeping food diaries? I do not because I already have identified the main culprits in my life and can avoid them, or just deal with the consequences with full-respect to doing it to myself. This isn't a "conditioned" response. It's a response. Suggesting that it's a conditioned response is to suggest that all of my issues are purely mental. Well, mental or not, I know what my triggers are, and if the other poster returns and says that they realize melted cheese upsets their stomach too then what?

I'm not weak to placebo's. If I could will my issues away I would. Instead I have found my own ways to suppress my symptoms and have since been able to actually enjoy so much food and actually have a normal bowel movement (something still quite new and quaint to me after so long of being generally unwell), but would one suggest this is just a conditioned response? Despite all other hopes of a fix being nothing but complete failures, whereas I've finally found a solution that works for me? To suggest it's all just conditioning, and a link with my mind, is actually quite absurd and disqualifies all that I know to be true about my own IBS symptoms, triggers, and reliefs. My whole IBS experience becomes null and void. I'm here to tell you my IBS experience, which has been a constant throughout my entire life as I remember it, is not null and void.

This is a lot of talk all for a bit of cheese. I like cheese. I like melted cheese. Melted cheese hurts me. Fact.

Further fact is that once I take chlorophyll I feel so much better and can actually poop like a normal person... just like that other person drinking aloe vera juice. For whatever reason more green inside of my body, and others, makes our world shine instead of feeling like we are slaves to our own bodies. This shouldn't be too much of a surprise considering the obvious benefits of a diet that is high in stuff you pick off plants and trees (i.e. not manufactured or processed). This is the whole point of me being here... to keep suggesting this until further people also try it and provide more conclusive feedback and stats. Not this "oh fodmap diet maybe kind of makes you feel better, and take some yoghurt at night while standing on your head" type of nonsense. Clear-cut no-nonsense results that can't be denied. If more people start talking about it then it may lead to a more permanent discovery on IBS issues instead of nobody (including and especially doctors) having next to no clue... after all, IBS is, and has always been, a non-diagnosis placeholder used instead of the doctor signing it off as "who knows why, but you get an upset stomach a lot".

If they are going to cut NASA's budget then maybe funnel it into researching peoples butt's some more, because so far even the simple and obvious stuff like fissures get misdiagnosed or missed entirely. The state of the worlds butt is atrocious.

/rantalicious


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Just a suggestion as to why the same food just melted would be different than eating a hunk of it as is with the same bread/pasta/whatever.

I don't think so much of the grease coming off the cheese, but how much butter and other stuff they may have added to the cheese to make it melt better (at least in some dishes) so even though it may seem like the same 4 ounces of the same cheese you can eat straight up (and often they put more cheese on something they melt it over than you might eat on your own, especially at a restaurant) there may be extra added stuff you don't eat when you sit down to eat a bunch of cheese by itself.

And I just shared my experience of a food that set my gut off (even before IBS) for no reason that made any sort of logical sense.

I'm not saying I willed away the fact that raisins made me projectile vomit each and every single time I ate them from the time I was 10 until I was 32 and stopped trying (well not actively trying but having hope maybe it wouldn't happen). Just that the nervous system does change over time, some connections get stronger, some get weaker, and by not doing something to strengthen the connection it finally faded on its own. No will involved.

Conditioned response doesn't mean you made it up. Doesn't mean you have a mental illness. The NORMAL brain is supposed to do those things. It's a kind of shorthand so you don't have always think through every moment of every day. It is a good thing, most of the time, but once in awhile it pops onto the wrong thing.

Just deciding that if X always made me sick then I'd stop eating X. I don't think that is insane. Even if there is no sane reason for X to make me sick.

And I don't know that your N of 1 on chlorophyll should be seen as more conclusive than the N of 1's we have here of people doing very well on the low Fodmap diet or whatever other treatment you don't personally find effective or agree with.

I don't have a problem with people taking chlorophyll if that is what works for them. But different things work for different people so why not be about people trying any or all of them. Even ones with scientific backing. You want that for chlorophyll but it is bad that low FODMAPs seems to have scientific and clinician buy in???


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## chlorophyll (Jul 31, 2013)

Kathleen M. said:


> Just a suggestion as to why the same food just melted would be different than eating a hunk of it as is with the same bread/pasta/whatever.
> 
> I don't think so much of the grease coming off the cheese, but how much butter and other stuff they may have added to the cheese to make it melt better (at least in some dishes) so even though it may seem like the same 4 ounces of the same cheese you can eat straight up (and often they put more cheese on something they melt it over than you might eat on your own, especially at a restaurant) there may be extra added stuff you don't eat when you sit down to eat a bunch of cheese by itself.
> 
> ...


Re cheese : This is still being discounted. I have not even been talking about food made by other people! I don't go out to buy cheese on toast. How many different ways must I explicitly describe that cheese, in it's melted form, has been a consistent precursor to me being relegated to the toilet for the next few hours?

If I could explain the mechanics behind it I would, and it would be a step forward in the direction of IBS knowledge. But it is what it is.

Re raisins : Either I misread, or you misrepresented (by accident I'm sure) your raisin issues. That, to me, just sounds like typical evolving food likes and dislikes. There are all kinds of stuff I wouldn't ever eat when I was younger, for example, that I am totally into now that I'm a bit older. On the other hand there are also a few things I've grown to dislike. This is merely a tangent in the IBS discussion.

My n of 1 is more than an n of 1, but granted it's not a large sample. That... is the point! We have on another thread someone drinking aloe vera juice who claims relief, which makes me curious if it's anything in the aloe other than any chlorophyll, or if it's just that it contains chlorophyll. There are others online who have found relief. I didn't just make this up and am the only person claiming it.

My problem with other "diets" and "cures" is they are all seemingly restrictions, or expensive pills, or fad products, that for a lot of the time seem to give less convincing relief from IBS than I've had with chlorophyll. TBH it makes me a little angry that people waste their time... no, their lives, feeling MISERABLE and cutting down on the foods they can eat until they are left with a diet worse than a convict, and still no actual decent relief.

If you could see my poop, and my pooping habits, if I was to lay it all out in a chart for you with pictures, you would be able to clearly see with no hesitation the times where I have been taking chlorophyll once or twice a week, versus the times when I have not.

When I have not had a solid BM in seemingly forever, and mere days after first ever taking chlorophyll I have a "normal" bm and it's the first legitimately non-diarrhea BM I've had since however many years... what more does one need.

It seems my melted cheese trigger is discounted, as is my night and day change in stomach and toilet behavior with chlorophyll. I feel the only proof would be for you to see me in person, after not taking any chlorophyll for a week or so, eat a cheese sandwich one day and be fairly ok within the bounds of typical IBS-feeling-crappy-in-general, and then watch me eat a melted cheese sandwhich the next day and within an hour be stuck on the toilet for multiple trips for the next few hours.... and then watch me do the same thing after taking chlorophyll for a few days and see me take the most awesomely solid and well-formed poop that's ever left my behind.

This may sound like hyperbole, but it's not really that far from my reality.

You want to bring-up conditioning and expected responses, well that's precisely my problem with the weak solutions people come-up with as it just seems they are trying to convince themselves more than anything that what they are desperately trying is actually making a difference. Just like everyone else I too can eat on a restricted diet and feel less ill in general, but that would still leave me feeling ill and subject to random IBS-D attacks even if not consuming the obvious trigger foods. That's a sad way to live, and how it sounds like many on here are going about things. When you have cut back everything to only eating a handful of "somewhat" safe foods, and STILL you are sick, then that's not living. That is sad. I'll drink some chlorophyll and after 1 more IBS BM I'm cleared and good to go for a few days! That means eating anything with little to no recourse... i.e. maybe some gas. But I'll take some gas over explosive diarrhea any day of the year, and so I do!

I may be an n of 1 to you, but I've read of others having the same relief. I've also read of some with IBS-C have some relief. But, then again, I've also read of another person with IBS-C whose situation became even more backed-up. In a similar vein as fiber supplements can for a lot of people have an equalizing effect and bring both IBS-C and IBS-D symptoms closer to a more comfortable middle-ground, it seems that chlorophyll (and perhaps aloe?) can have similar results.

I have no doubt that some time in the future this n of 1 will be be amongst others who have similar relief, and then perhaps the medical industry will have something a bit more tangible to investigate and take note of instead of just telling us to eat special diets that don't work and leave us depressed and perhaps even under nourished.

I know that small wins can be gained from being vigilant with ones diet. But this n of 1 also knows that it can all get tossed out the window after this n of 1 keeps taking a little chlorophyll ever few days and life can actually feel normal, and toilets don't need to be the main thought in ones mind when out in public, etc.

I'm saying, a lot of people here are trapped in a prison trying to glimpse a peek out of their bars to the sunshine outside. I'm saying, for myself and a small few others who have come across chlorophyll, we are outside in the sunshine. It's warm out here. You should all come out and play. The reason I stick around places like this is to keep pushing this idea that there IS more than just eating very little variety and still feeling sick. The reason I stick around is precisely to read posts like that aloe vera juice post. There is something tangible here! It's right here! It may not work for 100% of people, but there is a night and day difference in our LIVES for the small number of us who have come across chlorophyll for one reason or another (I was originally looking into brain-fog issues, but my IBS relief was a profound bonus).

You get rid of the IBS and you are a long way towards getting rid of a lot of anxiety and depression and anal fissures and whatever else that comes with the package. A whole house of cards can take a massive hit to its foundation just by getting legitimate relief and freedom from IBS. It's a silent burden we have all suffered under, and it's just so wrong.

And melted cheese makes me sick.


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

But I liked the taste of raisins. It wasn't that I didn't like them so I threw them up. I LIKED EATING THEM. I was not imagining the vomiting, either. If I knew I ate them, I would throw them back up. I just got violently ill the first time I ate raisin bran for some other reason and so the neurons connected the dots for me. It isn't a mental illness to have normal brain responses.

When I didn't eat them for a long time (like 5 years) I didn't react to them when I finally reintroduced them. I STILL LIKE THE TASTE OF THEM, the same way I liked them when I use to throw them up. I love all dried fruit. I love all grapes.

FWIW, I found what put my IBS in remission. I'm glad you found yours. I do not know why it seems I am bad and wrong because I'm not doing yours years after my IBS is gone.

I believe melted cheese makes you sick.

I'm just trying to figure out why the exact same cheese sandwich would be different if you put it in a toaster and melted it with no added grease or anything at all. Sorry you don't like my experience. It may be that a few years of completely avoiding it (and I DID SAY IF IT MAKES YOU SICK AVOID IT NO MATTER WHY IT MAKES YOU SICK) could break the cycle. Or you could just choose to never ever try it ever again. Your choice. I'm not going to make you eat it, ever.

And I don't know why all those eating the low fodmap diet and being happy while doing it must by lying and their N of 1 is not valid but your N of 1 is salvation. And yes usually more than 1 person has the same experience, and sometimes that leads to a study, sometimes it ends up being a bunch of interesting anectdotes, and a lot of times the rigorous studies do not show it works in a stastically significant part of the population, and sometimes things that are statistically signifcant do not work for a lot of individuals (nothing works for everone). IF IT WORKS FOR YOU KEEP DOING IT. Just don't talk like anything that worked for anyone else is a bunch of lies or delusions if they don't work for you. But whatever, I'm not going to argue anymore.

Im really not trying to invalidate your n of 1 in anyway. I just thought I might share mine, I won't make that mistake again.

I didn't find chorophyll to do much to my GI tract although I do sometimes take it as a dandy anti-mutagen. So I'm not anti-taking it whatever you think.


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## chlorophyll (Jul 31, 2013)

Kathleen M. said:


> But I liked the taste of raisins. It wasn't that I didn't like them so I threw them up. I LIKED EATING THEM. I was not imagining the vomiting, either. If I knew I ate them, I would throw them back up. I just got violently ill the first time I ate raisin bran for some other reason and so the neurons connected the dots for me. It isn't a mental illness to have normal brain responses.
> 
> When I didn't eat them for a long time (like 5 years) I didn't react to them when I finally reintroduced them. I STILL LIKE THE TASTE OF THEM, the same way I liked them when I use to throw them up. I love all dried fruit. I love all grapes.
> 
> ...


I must have misread you then. Maybe it was a texture issue, and not a taste issue. Like food colored purple is still the same food, but is terribly unappealing.

If you can figure-out why melted cheese makes me sick then that would be massive, but I certainly don't know what it is... just that it is. Just like all of the other triggers.

As for others being "happy" on restrictive diets, I'm sure they are happier to have some level of reprieve from symptoms. Some of us would perhaps gladly cut a limb off if it would provide some relief. This angers me because it's still living under an IBS dictatorship where one is subject to attack and can't eat whatever they want.

Much like that other thread where a thread starter had the nerve to try and tell people that having IBS is some kind of "blessing" because it forces us to eat better. That thread is just so damn wrong, and insulting, and self-deluding. NO! There is nothing good about IBS, and it shouldn't have to be said. There's nothing good about being oppressed by your own body! It's not right, and it's not ok.

I know what it's like to get some amount of control on IBS and not feel so unwell every day. But I also know that it's still not good enough. I now know what it is like to feel properly free from IBS attacks and to be able to eat anything at any time!

Can you see the difference? I read about people getting some relief, or marginal relief, or no relief at all, via various means that they HOPE will help them get some freedom in their life. I've been there, done that, and experienced the depression of not being able to escape my symptoms. It's upsetting that so many people are going round in circles. I get that some degree of relief can be experienced. Obviously avoiding trigger foods goes a long way towards feeling some amount of better.

I'm saying people don't necessarily need to do any of that, and can perhaps eat their trigger foods, and whatever else they like! This isn't some "diet"! This is me, and a small few others, having real relief and escaping the symptoms and oppression and feeling free for the first time in our whole lives!

And most of all it's SO CHEAP that it's ridiculous. It's... it's just right there.. on the shelves in the chemists... waiting for people to try and perhaps experience profound changes in their lives! It's just right there, and within a day or two people might be taking the first well-formed BM's... ever , and finally having their first days where they maybe don't even feel the need to go whatsoever instead of going 5 to 10 times each and every day even after restricting their diet right down to the bare minimums and avoiding all of the foods they love to eat but which triggers attacks!

If I said to someone "you can go on this diet and miss-out on a lot of great foods, and still probably feel sick and get attacks... or you can drink a small amount of this a few times a week and eat whatever you want and virtually never get attacks", which is the better option? To me, one sounds awful (because it is) and the other sounds freeing (because it is).

TBH I'm still not used to having proper BM's. It's legitimately so foreign to me after decades of being generally unwell. It's all still very novel and kind of amazing to feel "normal" and liberated.

I really do feel like I was in a prison but now I'm finally freed. And now I look back and see everyone standing behind the bars wanting to get out too, but not being able to see the open door that is available to them. This makes me mad.

I'm not here spruking some "specialty" product that costs 50 bux for 10 tablets that you can only order from some special website, y'know? I'm not leading people in private messages to some specialty website that charges some absurd amount for some herbal pill with magical ingredients. This stuff is, at least here and I'm sure in many places, available right off the shelf and costs less than a big meal and lasts seemingly forever. I don't own stock in the companies that sell this stuff. I don't even dare link to the products that you can get in the chemist. This stuff is just so cheap, and so simple, and has given me profound relief. Profound!


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

No all dried fruit, were fine.

All purple food was fine.

Everything almost exactly like raisins were fine.

AND I LIKED EATING RAISINS.

It would have been easier if I didn't like them, It is harder to avoid a food you like than avoid a food you can't stand and hate eating. I had no problem avoiding spinach during the same time period (although that I now love, but then I never barfed it up, ever, either).

I dunno, I have friends with Celiac, completely and totally incurable, the ONLY treatment is diet and they don't seem to have issues with feeling they are living under a dicatorship of their disease, so I don't think that feeling when one has to change one's diet is universal.

Sometimes the only choice you have is the attitude you will face the adversity with. You don't want to see it as a blessing, fine. But if others chose to face something in that way what is the problem. Like I said I also have a lot of friends with various illnesses and sometimes attitude adjustment ends up being their best treatment.

On the one hand I hate having an exercise intolerance. However, having to take care of myself really well because that is the only way to remain functional at all has me looking much younger than my age and doing a lot better than my friends who had the freedom to party hard, never sleep, and work themselves to an early death.

Again I BELIEVE YOU that the chlorophyll works for you, just know it won't work for everyone and please do not tell other people they are bad and wrong because they chose another treatment, you can tell your story without it having to make other people's stories wrong. Really, it is possible. Why is it terrible for you that someone may find relief in another way?


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## chlorophyll (Jul 31, 2013)

Kathleen M. said:


> No all dried fruit, were fine.
> 
> All purple food was fine.
> 
> ...


No idea then about your raisins, maybe there was something actually "wrong" with the raisins (lingering chemicals or something)? One of lifes mysteries, just like melted cheese for me. Who knows, and we will surely never know.

There is clearly some communication issue here. Regardless, I can't see anywhere that I said it was "wrong" or "bad" for people to choose (search) a path for relief. Quote me where I said that so I can understand where that accusation has come from. But I'll say right now that it IS bad to suggest to people quackery, and I have no doubt that this is what some (I say SOME) people absolutely do. I have no doubt there are people who have experienced no relief but are clinging to hope and the placebo effect they are experiencing, and the cognitive dissonance permits them to share their discoveries with other desperate folk who are willing to try anything. THAT is bad, and wrong.

I shouldn't have to keep repeating myself, but I'll say it again, I know some degree of relief can be found from eliminating trigger foods, and with this the fodmap fad seems to do a fairly well-rounded job for a lot of people. That's simply stating the obvious. Don't eat food that makes you sick. Simple. A no-brainer. I understand fodmap can guide people away from certain foods that have demonstrated themselves to be typical triggers. I get it. It's not a difficult concept.

If people are on these diets and no-longer give much thought to their IBS then EXCELLENT. But, if any of those people on their special diets, or taking their special pills, or doing whatever it is they do, and they still experience attacks and have to concern themselves with what they eat and where the toilets are.. i.e not much has really changed and they are still suffering IBS symptoms... then that IS bad.

It's like telling someone with a terminal illness to put a smile on their face and take a multivitamin because "it'll make you feel better". It's not a solid solution.

If people are doing whatever they do and don't feel under the thumb of their IBS anymore then I'm happy for them. But even your own posts display an apathy and discomfort resulting from having to "deal with" your IBS, despite whatever levels of success you have had with muting your symptoms.

That IS wrong. That's not success. That's not conquering IBS.

There are a lot of simple things people, IBS or not, can do to make their lives better. Eat well, exercise, yadda yadda the typical spiel. Some of this will go towards helping IBS symptoms. Great.

But what if there was something BETTER, and far more effective and conclusive! What if you didn't have to think about what you were going to eat or drink, or wonder if you'll need to go to the bathroom multiple times today, or have to find a public bathroom, etc. What if that could all go away, and all of the stress? What if people didn't have to engineer their lives and lifestyle around their IBS???

If there are others out there like me who get a 180 turn-around in their IBS from something as simple as a 10 dollar bottle of liquid that lasts for ages (so far I think half a year for me and still going), then telling them to "try fodmaps" or "try youghurt / yakult / fiber tablets / etc" is BAD and WRONG.

So, although in this thread I don't believe I said anything about peoples paths for relief being bad or wrong, now I have. I've now said it.

This all began because I dared suggest that melted cheese is a trigger for me and perhaps for the other poster, and since then I've had to justify and qualify every single thing I've said. It's remarkable.

tl;dr I think a lot of people just parrot the typical bandaid non-fixes that stil lleaves people having their lives controlled by their IBS. There are diminishing returns from restricting your diet and life when you are still having to think about your IBS and organize your life aroud it. That's a rubbish way to live, and at a bare minimum some people with IBS could absolutely can break free of that life for next to no cost or effort.


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Why can't it possibly be a very normal conditioned response that faded when I didn't eat them for enough years in a row that the neurons that connected in my brain finally let go?

Like neurons in the brain are supposed to do?

Like what happens in every other mammal on the planet?

Why are human brains/minds exempt from the biology that rules everything else?

Really didn't matter, organic, sprayed, conventional, if it was like the raisin in the raisin bran it was bad. If it was a Zante Current Raisin from the SAME company processed the SAME way but I know it is a current and I ate those before the Raisin Bran incident I was fine.

I'm not saying don't treat illnesses, and don't take them seriously, but really why does one person with the same illness and the same treatment suffer terribly while another finds a way to enjoy the life they have.

AND

for everyone on the board TRY THE CHLORPHYLL IF you want to see if it helps. It seems non-toxic, it is cheap, and we have some anedotal evidence it helped someone. But also try ALL THE OTHER THINGS on the board you think may help even if they didn't work for some people or some people don't like them.

Please do not assume EVERYONE but you on the board is LYING about their sucesses. If yogurt worked for you, and it does for some, they why should we say they are BAD for saying that.

Didn't work for you, I get it. But don't assume you have the one and only cure and nothing else could ever work for anyone ever.

I AM NOT YOUR ENEMY!

I don't parrot fixes. I look for evidence in the scientific literature and look for anecdotal evidence that things work. If I find no one ever found it worked, I don't mention it.


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## chlorophyll (Jul 31, 2013)

Kathleen M. said:


> Why can't it possibly be a very normal conditioned response that faded when I didn't eat them for enough years in a row that the neurons that connected in my brain finally let go?
> 
> Like neurons in the brain are supposed to do?
> 
> ...


You talk of this conditioned response, but I'm not sure if you are just talking-aloud, trying to bounce feedback in case someone sparks another idea, trying to prove something to me, or what. Again, this whole dialogue began because I said that melted cheese makes me ill, and since then I've had to qualify everything and a part of your dismissal of what I've said has been to suggest that it's perhaps some conditoned response I'm having. It's not a conditioned response.

Tell me, is it even POSSIBLE for someone to have a "conditioned response" such that the response is explosive diarrhea? Such an extreme physiological effect could be understandable if it was vomit... due to a smell or sensation or whatever... but to I have never, ever, heard of the suggestion that it's even possible for someone to somehow, and furthermore unknowingly, have a conditioned response to certain foods that then gives me intense stomach cramps and explosive diarrhea. I've never heard of such a thing. Is it a real thing?

And if it is a real thing, then at what point do you draw the line? How do you justify that melted cheese is a conditioned response, but all of my other food triggers are just "IBS"?

This whole line of conversation has been dismissive of one simple idea. That melted cheese is a trigger. I don't know WHY it is... but at the same time why are ANY foods a trigger?! What is it about melted cheese that makes it so unique as to warrant it's dismissal as a trigger, and therefore it's some other reason that it gives me (and surely others) the exact same issues as every other issue that is otherwise relegated to just being IBS-related?

It's not so far-fetched to consider that cheese and melted cheese are different and result in different IBS reponses. Cheese doesn't give me diarrhea, but cheese is just another form of milk... and milk is all kinds of problems afaic. Same same, but different, you see?

It's entirely possible that I'm completely misunderstanding your posts, but they have been nothing but combative, dismissive, and twisting my words in ways they were not written. I really can not have been clearer in my posts, but despite this you seem to be interpreting them differently to their mesages and intent. You've now made it a point to caps the statements about people trying chlorophyll etc, as though this has all been such a chore for you and you are exhasperated and I've somehow strong-armed you into doing this and now I should be satisfied with your post. I'm merely a forum participant like anyone else, but perhaps unlike others I'll stand my ground if someone is dismissive of something I say that doesn't deserve to be dismissed or wants to misrepresent my words.

You say you are not my enemy, and yet as much as I'm trying to not read your posts as such they, now literally, scream otherwise. I don't know what you want or expect from me. I'm defending the things I have said, and NOT said, as best as possible to be as clear as I can about what I'm saying or replying to. I've attempted to address what I have seen as the more important points in your replies, which only seems to enrage you. I provided an anecdotal fact of my life, and from there have had to defend various points as each post goes on.

And again with the hyperbole, I never said EVERYONE on the board is lying. I have made a conscious effort to SPECIFICALLY not say as such, and would never say as such. How can I express, clearly, the idea that there are people out there who are NOT experiencing success and yet parrot bad ideas! That is NOT everyone. How else can I say this?

Really, I think you are being demanding, dismissive, and entirely misrespresenting of my posts. You won't get from me what you seek if you do not understand the posts that are written. There is no dialogue if there is no accurate perception of what is presented. We, literally, aren't having the same conversations, and the way you reply and the things you say share a resemblence to the things I have said but are merely a poor silhouette fitted towards other thoughts and words that were not expressed by myself.

So... yeah. I'm not sure what exactly you want or expect from me. I've replied, at each point, as best as I can.


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

The brain is connected to the mast cells in the gut. The mast cells can, if needed, release chemicals that can cause explosive diarrhea. Mostly they get their input from the immune system, but they also get it from the nervous system.

In studies of people with "lactose intolerance" some people really seem to have "I know I ate dairy" intolerance. Their lactose intolerance test is normal. If you hide 3 glasses of milk worth of lactose into a dairy free meal they do not react. However you feed them lactose free dairy in a meal and they have explosive diarrhea (or other severe symptoms).

I really do feel completely and totally misunderstood and I have no idea how to explain to you that if I KNEW I ate raisins that were the type in the Raisin Bran the day I had food poisoning from something else I thew up. Even though I loved every single thing about eating a handful of raisins or foods with raisins in it. Conditioned responses are known to fade over time (unless you say human brains cannot in any way do anything any other mammal brain does). That my reaction to raisins disappeared after an appropriate fade time for a conditioned response to fade tends to prove it was a conditioned response and not something inherent in the raisins.


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Why you need to keep defending when for a lot of the points I'm agreeing with you I do not know. Other than you will not ever believe my story and keep telling me that what I know happened in my body cannot ever happen in any body but I think we can agree to a friendly agree to disagree, but maybe not. Maybe nothing I say will ever convince you of anything ever. I feel like you decided everything I say is an attack, even the I AGREE WITH YOU parts. So I might as well not even try to explain my story or point out all the myriad points that we agree on or try to discuss the very few where we do not. I shall retreat from this field you see as a battle, but I do not so as not. I shall not reply to you again.

Anyway back to the original poster's question, yes, some people do react to one or more foods and find they can eat other foods safely.

There are a number of proposed mechanisms by which these things happen, but basically if you find certain foods bother you, and no particular treatment changes that, then avoiding the foods that trigger symptoms (as long as you can eat enough food to maintain health) is a reasonable solution. Kind of like I no longer sleep on feather pillows as they trigger allergy/asthma symptoms.

For those that react to the mere act of eating, then food avoidance of particular foods may not be a reasonable and finding other ways to reduce post-prandial (after eating) symptoms is usually the better course of action.


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## chlorophyll (Jul 31, 2013)

Kathleen M. said:


> The brain is connected to the mast cells in the gut. The mast cells can, if needed, release chemicals that can cause explosive diarrhea. Mostly they get their input from the immune system, but they also get it from the nervous system.
> 
> In studies of people with "lactose intolerance" some people really seem to have "I know I ate dairy" intolerance. Their lactose intolerance test is normal. If you hide 3 glasses of milk worth of lactose into a dairy free meal they do not react. However you feed them lactose free dairy in a meal and they have explosive diarrhea (or other severe symptoms).
> 
> I really do feel completely and totally misunderstood and I have no idea how to explain to you that if I KNEW I ate raisins that were the type in the Raisin Bran the day I had food poisoning from something else I thew up. Even though I loved every single thing about eating a handful of raisins or foods with raisins in it. Conditioned responses are known to fade over time (unless you say human brains cannot in any way do anything any other mammal brain does). That my reaction to raisins disappeared after an appropriate fade time for a conditioned response to fade tends to prove it was a conditioned response and not something inherent in the raisins.


See I never said I don't believe you or your story. I'm failing to see how it relates to mine, is all, and I've been trying to understand the connection you have made between that and what I've said about cheese. I was misunderstanding that you were talking about this in relation to yourself not as some theory but as something you have taken full grasp of and have made full sense of for your circumstances that led to your vomit reactions. I thought you were just spit-balling thoughts. You brought this line of talk up as though it was the explanation for my seemingly incomprehensible IBS attacks from melted cheese versus no issues whatsoever with normal cheese. That's what I don't believe, as I have no reasons at all to believe it is the case in my situation. My failure to provide reason as to why melted cheese is the specific form of cheese that causes attacks in me is no more mysterious than not being able to provide reason for the list of all other foods that provide the exact same IBS attacks.

It's not about you and raisins. It's about conflating that with my cheese issues.

You've brought-up this "conditioned response" theory in relation to my posts, and that is where my doubt and denial lays. Again, how do you differentiate between any and all IBS, and one odd duck that gets placed into this conditioned response category as an outlier? If you are talking about being sick, and associating certain foods or smells or whatever from that time, then I get that! You recall what set this up for your issues with raisins. I don't recall anything for melted cheese. For there to be a conditioned response wouldn't one need to have some awareness of it, as clearly you are of yours? The only way for this to be a potential reasoning is if I was sick when I was a child too young to ever recall such an event, but again how do you rationalize that mystery away and not then all other IBS attacks? It just doesn't ring true without further evidence supporting the theory of which there is none for me that I have any awareness of. There is simply no reason to separate one food, or particular form of a food, away from the basket of all other IBS triggers in my life. It's just as much a mystery as all other triggers.


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## tummyrumbles (Aug 14, 2005)

Maybe both of you are correct. This is an intriguing argument. It's a very contentious issue here:

http://ask.metafilter.com/80627/Does-grilling-change-cheese

and here there is a suggestion that heating cheese destroys enzymes:

http://www.cheesescience.com/2011/08/29/a-note-on-milk/

which would explain someone not being able to digest it properly.

The conditioned response is also a valid argument. My son gets this whenever he eats takeaway pizza. He's never sick with home-made pizza and loves macaroni cheese. I'm guessing the first pizza he ate was off, and now he has a mind-body connection that tells him takeaway pizza will make him sick.

The question is: is heated cheese chemically different to cold cheese? If you were feeling sick and had to eat cheese, which cheese would you prefer. Most people would probably say cold, but why? Why does grilled cheese seem more fatty than cold? Could this could be because the fats have partially broken up already and therefore are released quicker in the colon? Is it the speed of fats hitting the colon that could be irritating? How does the colon differentiate between cold cheese fats and grilled cheese fats?

http://andyoz.hubpages.com/hub/Can-You-Be-Allergic-To-Melted-Cheese-Cooked-Cheese-Allergy

"One theory that I do subscribe to is one that I actually heard from a physics teacher. He was present at a dinner party I attended and the argument once again came up. To my surprise he took my side in the argument and said that there is a chemical reaction in the cheese when it melts. The fats in the cheese separate, to be honest a lot of what he said went over my head but it involved trans fats and the way the body digests these. He also mentioned the fact that heating cheese can kill off the enzymes in it which make it easier to digest, so thus melted cheese can sometimes be harder to digest. This seems like a fair point and it could explain the problem."

No-one likes to think of the colon behaving arbitrarily. This is my greatest fear as well, that the colon makes irrational decisions. I don't believe this. I'm wondering if everyone has a gas threshold and the IBS symptoms only start if you go over this. I'm not sure how this relates to IBS-D people.

Say for instance someone sensitive to grilled cheese eats it, but lacks the necessary enzymes to digest it fully. This produces gas that signals to the colon that something is wrong. For IBS-Leaky Gas this means cramping and constipation. For IBS-D this means cramping and diarrhea.


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## Sapphmonster (Mar 7, 2013)

I'm usually pretty good, I seem to tolerate FODMAPS ok (tried the diet for 3months, no difference) but I have found that my ibs is triggered/worsened by casein (protein in milk) and gluten, so I avoid these. Maybe consider a food diary?


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## JessicaUSA7 (Jul 7, 2012)

My #1 safe food is a brown cinnamon sugar Pop Tart.

I know there are a million reasons why this not the best food option, but to cope with my #1 stress trigger for my IBS-D symptoms (having to sit in a quiet room with lots of people), I have found that pop tarts work best because they don't inflame my IBS-D symptoms, while at the same time they are filling enough to prevent the dreaded stomach growls.

Weird I know, but I basically got into a routine of eating a pop tart before each of my classes to get through 2 years of my MBA program.

Whatever works I guess.


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