# question about Asacol (anti-inflammatory) -- Kel, Flux, anyone



## Guest (Aug 27, 2004)

i started Asacol (an anti-inflammatory) recently - my GI said he is trying it out on patients as there is evidence the low grade inflammation IBSers has can affect our immune and then our nervous systems, creating the other symptoms of ibs.i have noticed a little improvement in my ability to release gas, and also not feeling so much sensation in gut area in general. however, i noticed a BIG difference in bladder sensitivity. it is unquestionable. suddenly i am able to have a full bladder and not notice it. its almost like before i had ibs. how could this be working? could it really be working on the pathways he suggests - lowering inflammation, so then immune and nervous systems aren't constantly tweeked. i always thought my bladder sensitivity was due to same nerve issue as ibs. OR could i have had some sort of bladder inflammation that had gone undiagnosed?any ideas? i find this very interesting.


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

The inflammation in IBS is connected to neurophysiological working of the brain and gut and specifically mast cells in the gut. They are also connected to bladder problems because mast cells are also connected to bladder problems. Basically the immune system and nervous system is tweaking the immune system and specific cells in the gut, which is also under control of the brain . But it can go both ways, the gut can tweak the brain and the brain can tweak the gut.The inflammation in IBS however, is believed to be in big part a neurophysiological problem.It probably will not effect gas and bloating much however, which may be connected to other problems and may not have a lot to do with macroscopic inflammation of mast cells.The inflammation seen in IBS, cannot fully explain pain either, it can contribute, but it does not explain it by itself, with out the impairment of cetain centers in the brain they see in IBS. So there are other important factors that need to be researched still.This maybe consistent however." also not feeling so much sensation in gut area in general. "Because those cells can contribute to gut feelings and pain, if they are not inflamed and releasing toxins onto the smooth muscle.


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

The inflammation in IBS is connected to neurophysiological working of the brain and gut and specifically mast cells in the gut. They are also connected to bladder problems because mast cells are also connected to bladder problems. Basically the immune system and nervous system is tweaking the immune system and specific cells in the gut, which is also under control of the brain . But it can go both ways, the gut can tweak the brain and the brain can tweak the gut.The inflammation in IBS however, is believed to be in big part a neurophysiological problem.It probably will not effect gas and bloating much however, which may be connected to other problems and may not have a lot to do with macroscopic inflammation of mast cells.The inflammation seen in IBS, cannot fully explain pain either, it can contribute, but it does not explain it by itself, with out the impairment of cetain centers in the brain they see in IBS. So there are other important factors that need to be researched still.This maybe consistent however." also not feeling so much sensation in gut area in general. "Because those cells can contribute to gut feelings and pain, if they are not inflamed and releasing toxins onto the smooth muscle.


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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

Joan,your stomack can handle an anti-inflammatory drugs?







I'm asking me where your doc took his infos that this can help IBS.Anti-inflammatory drug are known to cause G.I. irritation.


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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

Joan,your stomack can handle an anti-inflammatory drugs?







I'm asking me where your doc took his infos that this can help IBS.Anti-inflammatory drug are known to cause G.I. irritation.


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Asacol is a different class of drug than the Non-steroidal Anti-inflamatory NSAID pain meds that is ususally what people think of as causing GI irritation.K.


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Asacol is a different class of drug than the Non-steroidal Anti-inflamatory NSAID pain meds that is ususally what people think of as causing GI irritation.K.


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

This drug is mainly used to fight Ulcertive colitus and Infalmmatory bowel disease, which IBS is not, however.mesalamine (me SAL a meen) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Asacol 400 mg Pentasa 250 mg Rowasa 500 mg Suppository and Rectal Suspension This drug is not available in a generic form. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What is mesalamine? Mesalamine is an anti-inflammatory drug which acts on the lining of the gut to reduce inflammation. There are three different forms available. Asacol becomes active in the small bowel just before the colon is reached. Pentasa, on the other hand, is released in the small intestine just beyond the stomach. Therefore, this drug may be particularly helpful in Crohn's disease patients with small bowel involvement. Rowasa is the same medication given either by suppository or by enema. Its primary use is for inflammation of the rectum and lower or left side of the colon. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What is it used for? These drugs are used to treat ulcerative colitis, ulcerative proctitis, Crohn's disease and collagenous or lymphocytic colitis. They are much more helpful in the chronic phase of these diseases than when there is severe inflammation. At those times, steroid drugs such as prednisone are usually more effective. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- How do I take it? Follow your physician's instructions carefully. For rectal suspension, use as a retention enema at bedtime. If possible, empty the rectum prior to instilling the suspension. The enema should be retained at least eight hours for best results. Suppositories should be used one or two times a day and retained for 1 to 3 hours or longer for best results. For oral dosage, swallow the pill or capsule whole and do not break, crush or chew. Keep all medications away from children. Never share your medications with anyone else. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What do I do for a missed dose? If you miss a dose of this medicine, take it as soon as possible. If it is almost time for the next dose, skip the missed dose and return to the regular schedule. Do not double up the medication. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Are there interactions with food or beverages? The drug may be taken with food or milk. There are no known interactions with food. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Are there interactions with other drugs? An interaction generally means that one drug may increase or decrease the effect of another drug. Also, the more medications a person takes, the more likely there will be a drug interaction. Interactions with this drug may occur with sulfasalazine (Azulfidine). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Is there a problem if I have another disorder or disease? At times, a drug may have a different or enhanced effect when other diseases are present. At other times, the drug may worsen or effect another disease. With this drug, severe kidney disease may be a problem. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What about allergies? People who have known allergies or asthma may be at an increased risk for a reaction from any new medication. The physician should always know a patient's allergy history. Signs of an allergic reaction are skin rash, hives or fever. Of course, a person should not take mesalamine if there has been a previous reaction to this or salicylates (aspirin). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What if I'm pregnant, considering pregnancy or breast-feeding? Most females now know that, if possible, no drug, including alcohol, should be taken during pregnancy or lactation. The potential danger, of course, is an injury to the baby. However, some drugs are much safer than others in this regard. So, the FDA has a grading system for each drug which reflects what is known medically. It ranks drugs from A, where medical studies show no evidence for danger to the fetus or mother, to B, C, D and X, where the medical evidence indicates that the risk to the fetus outweighs any benefit to the mother. Mesalamine is ranked B. Always consult your physician before taking any drug during or when planning pregnancy. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What are the effects on sexual function? There are no known adverse effects of mesalamine on sexual function. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Are there other precautions? Intact or partially intact tablets (small beads) may appear in the stool. These are empty shells from the medication. If this is a frequent occurrence, check with your physician. Enemas may stain clothing. Avoid taking the drug for six weeks after chicken pox vaccination (Varivax) as it may result in Reyes Syndrome. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- How long is it safe to take mesalamine? Regular use of 1 to 3 weeks is usually necessary to determine the drug's effectiveness. Long-term use of months to years is generally necessary and safe but does require a physician's supervision and periodic evaluation. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- How about side effects? Adverse reactions can occur with any drug, even over-the-counter medications. Some of these are mild such as a stomach upset, which may be avoided by taking the medication with food. Minor reactions may go away on their own but if they persist, contact the physician. For major reactions, the patient should contact the physician immediately. For mesalamine, the following are the observed side effects: Minor: abdominal cramps indigestion nausea bloating diarrhea headache dizziness rash Major: fever severe headache increased blood in stool sudden severe stomach pain -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A physician's comment... These drugs are a major advance in treating chronic inflammatory bowel disease. They generally can be used in high doses with minimal side effects compared to the previous product, sulfasalazine. It is generally well-tolerated and safe to use long-term. Since it rarely may have an effect on the bone marrow, periodic testing of the blood is necessary. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Posted: July 1998 http://www.gicare.com/pated/mesalamine.htm


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

This drug is mainly used to fight Ulcertive colitus and Infalmmatory bowel disease, which IBS is not, however.mesalamine (me SAL a meen) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Asacol 400 mg Pentasa 250 mg Rowasa 500 mg Suppository and Rectal Suspension This drug is not available in a generic form. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What is mesalamine? Mesalamine is an anti-inflammatory drug which acts on the lining of the gut to reduce inflammation. There are three different forms available. Asacol becomes active in the small bowel just before the colon is reached. Pentasa, on the other hand, is released in the small intestine just beyond the stomach. Therefore, this drug may be particularly helpful in Crohn's disease patients with small bowel involvement. Rowasa is the same medication given either by suppository or by enema. Its primary use is for inflammation of the rectum and lower or left side of the colon. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What is it used for? These drugs are used to treat ulcerative colitis, ulcerative proctitis, Crohn's disease and collagenous or lymphocytic colitis. They are much more helpful in the chronic phase of these diseases than when there is severe inflammation. At those times, steroid drugs such as prednisone are usually more effective. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- How do I take it? Follow your physician's instructions carefully. For rectal suspension, use as a retention enema at bedtime. If possible, empty the rectum prior to instilling the suspension. The enema should be retained at least eight hours for best results. Suppositories should be used one or two times a day and retained for 1 to 3 hours or longer for best results. For oral dosage, swallow the pill or capsule whole and do not break, crush or chew. Keep all medications away from children. Never share your medications with anyone else. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What do I do for a missed dose? If you miss a dose of this medicine, take it as soon as possible. If it is almost time for the next dose, skip the missed dose and return to the regular schedule. Do not double up the medication. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Are there interactions with food or beverages? The drug may be taken with food or milk. There are no known interactions with food. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Are there interactions with other drugs? An interaction generally means that one drug may increase or decrease the effect of another drug. Also, the more medications a person takes, the more likely there will be a drug interaction. Interactions with this drug may occur with sulfasalazine (Azulfidine). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Is there a problem if I have another disorder or disease? At times, a drug may have a different or enhanced effect when other diseases are present. At other times, the drug may worsen or effect another disease. With this drug, severe kidney disease may be a problem. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What about allergies? People who have known allergies or asthma may be at an increased risk for a reaction from any new medication. The physician should always know a patient's allergy history. Signs of an allergic reaction are skin rash, hives or fever. Of course, a person should not take mesalamine if there has been a previous reaction to this or salicylates (aspirin). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What if I'm pregnant, considering pregnancy or breast-feeding? Most females now know that, if possible, no drug, including alcohol, should be taken during pregnancy or lactation. The potential danger, of course, is an injury to the baby. However, some drugs are much safer than others in this regard. So, the FDA has a grading system for each drug which reflects what is known medically. It ranks drugs from A, where medical studies show no evidence for danger to the fetus or mother, to B, C, D and X, where the medical evidence indicates that the risk to the fetus outweighs any benefit to the mother. Mesalamine is ranked B. Always consult your physician before taking any drug during or when planning pregnancy. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What are the effects on sexual function? There are no known adverse effects of mesalamine on sexual function. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Are there other precautions? Intact or partially intact tablets (small beads) may appear in the stool. These are empty shells from the medication. If this is a frequent occurrence, check with your physician. Enemas may stain clothing. Avoid taking the drug for six weeks after chicken pox vaccination (Varivax) as it may result in Reyes Syndrome. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- How long is it safe to take mesalamine? Regular use of 1 to 3 weeks is usually necessary to determine the drug's effectiveness. Long-term use of months to years is generally necessary and safe but does require a physician's supervision and periodic evaluation. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- How about side effects? Adverse reactions can occur with any drug, even over-the-counter medications. Some of these are mild such as a stomach upset, which may be avoided by taking the medication with food. Minor reactions may go away on their own but if they persist, contact the physician. For major reactions, the patient should contact the physician immediately. For mesalamine, the following are the observed side effects: Minor: abdominal cramps indigestion nausea bloating diarrhea headache dizziness rash Major: fever severe headache increased blood in stool sudden severe stomach pain -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A physician's comment... These drugs are a major advance in treating chronic inflammatory bowel disease. They generally can be used in high doses with minimal side effects compared to the previous product, sulfasalazine. It is generally well-tolerated and safe to use long-term. Since it rarely may have an effect on the bone marrow, periodic testing of the blood is necessary. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Posted: July 1998 http://www.gicare.com/pated/mesalamine.htm


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## Talissa (Apr 10, 2004)

Robin Spiller, a "world reknowned authority on IBS" according to Er(who also said there was no inflammation in the colon wall on july 27) is doing a study right now:"The project will examine markers, genetic and otherwise which may allow identification of individuals in whom low grade inflammation may be the underlying cause of their IBS (irritable bowel syndrome) symptoms." http://www.tig.org.uk/Spillerad.htm So, I don't think its possible to have a definitive answer or to say that "It probably will not effect gas and bloating much however, which may be connected to other problems and may not have a lot to do with macroscopic inflammation of mast cells."Re: low grade inflammation in IBS & pain~"Inflammation of the bowel can produce increased sensitivity to pain or enhanced intensity of pain sensation (hyperalgesia) via increased activity of certain cells (for example, those that contain nNOS) in these higher brain modulatory centers.[5]"(From - Report on the 5th International Symposium on Functional Gastrointestinal Disorders 2003) http://www.iffgd.org/symposium2003brain-gut.html Spiller was also involved in the above article.But by taking synthetic drugs for inflammation, rather than correcting the problem with natural anti-inflammatories w/ no side effects, could you be fixing one problem at the expense of getting another problem?


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## Talissa (Apr 10, 2004)

Robin Spiller, a "world reknowned authority on IBS" according to Er(who also said there was no inflammation in the colon wall on july 27) is doing a study right now:"The project will examine markers, genetic and otherwise which may allow identification of individuals in whom low grade inflammation may be the underlying cause of their IBS (irritable bowel syndrome) symptoms." http://www.tig.org.uk/Spillerad.htm So, I don't think its possible to have a definitive answer or to say that "It probably will not effect gas and bloating much however, which may be connected to other problems and may not have a lot to do with macroscopic inflammation of mast cells."Re: low grade inflammation in IBS & pain~"Inflammation of the bowel can produce increased sensitivity to pain or enhanced intensity of pain sensation (hyperalgesia) via increased activity of certain cells (for example, those that contain nNOS) in these higher brain modulatory centers.[5]"(From - Report on the 5th International Symposium on Functional Gastrointestinal Disorders 2003) http://www.iffgd.org/symposium2003brain-gut.html Spiller was also involved in the above article.But by taking synthetic drugs for inflammation, rather than correcting the problem with natural anti-inflammatories w/ no side effects, could you be fixing one problem at the expense of getting another problem?


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## Talissa (Apr 10, 2004)

P.S. Would also like to know what kel thinks...where is she when we need her??


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## Talissa (Apr 10, 2004)

P.S. Would also like to know what kel thinks...where is she when we need her??


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## Talissa (Apr 10, 2004)

PSS~Oct 2003 "There is a rebirth of interest in the role of bacteria in IBS. The putative involvement of microbes ranges from pathogenic bacteria causing acute gastroenteritis leading to post-infective IBS, and the putative role of flora in this condition. Manipulation of flora with probiotics may alter sensory perception, as suggested by preliminary reports of improvement in abdominal pain and bloating in IBS patients.20,21 In this context, it is important that we understand how bacteria might influence the sensory apparatus. The most superficial sensory nerve endings lie in the mucosa but do not impinge on the gut lumen. Signals from the lumen must, therefore, be transduced by cells in the epithelial lining. The roles of EC and EE cells in sensitisation have been discussed. Bacteria are known to interact with intestinal epithelial cells to generate mediators that include cytokines, which in turn can diffuse and sensitise sensory nerve endings. Bacteria also influence intestinal permeability, facilitating access of chemicals from the lumen to the gut wall. Direct interaction between bacterial products and primary afferents has been demonstrated in the context of cholera toxin.22 " http://gut.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/53/suppl_2/ii19


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## Talissa (Apr 10, 2004)

PSS~Oct 2003 "There is a rebirth of interest in the role of bacteria in IBS. The putative involvement of microbes ranges from pathogenic bacteria causing acute gastroenteritis leading to post-infective IBS, and the putative role of flora in this condition. Manipulation of flora with probiotics may alter sensory perception, as suggested by preliminary reports of improvement in abdominal pain and bloating in IBS patients.20,21 In this context, it is important that we understand how bacteria might influence the sensory apparatus. The most superficial sensory nerve endings lie in the mucosa but do not impinge on the gut lumen. Signals from the lumen must, therefore, be transduced by cells in the epithelial lining. The roles of EC and EE cells in sensitisation have been discussed. Bacteria are known to interact with intestinal epithelial cells to generate mediators that include cytokines, which in turn can diffuse and sensitise sensory nerve endings. Bacteria also influence intestinal permeability, facilitating access of chemicals from the lumen to the gut wall. Direct interaction between bacterial products and primary afferents has been demonstrated in the context of cholera toxin.22 " http://gut.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/53/suppl_2/ii19


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## Kacebece3 (Apr 17, 2002)

Hi Joanofarc, my doc tried me on asocol. I found the side effects intolerable, bad taste in mouth, stomach upset, and aching joints. He then thought pentassa might be better, same resuls. I must say that after bout 3 weeks my bowels were somewhat better, but side effects not worth it. there are a couple herbs you might want to look into. One is boswella(hope thats spelled rite) check the side effects before using and another is cats claw. To date I have not been able to find any side effects associated with cats claw and have been using it for bout 18 mounths. BTW....my doc assured me that I did not have colitis just some low grade inflamation...cause unknown.Ken


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## Kacebece3 (Apr 17, 2002)

Hi Joanofarc, my doc tried me on asocol. I found the side effects intolerable, bad taste in mouth, stomach upset, and aching joints. He then thought pentassa might be better, same resuls. I must say that after bout 3 weeks my bowels were somewhat better, but side effects not worth it. there are a couple herbs you might want to look into. One is boswella(hope thats spelled rite) check the side effects before using and another is cats claw. To date I have not been able to find any side effects associated with cats claw and have been using it for bout 18 mounths. BTW....my doc assured me that I did not have colitis just some low grade inflamation...cause unknown.Ken


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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

One IBSers claims that it works: http://discuss.50plus.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/000631.html


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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

One IBSers claims that it works: http://discuss.50plus.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/000631.html


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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

Joan,what happen to your stomack at first,You said that your stomack have hurt when you took it.??


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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

Joan,what happen to your stomack at first,You said that your stomack have hurt when you took it.??


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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

Thanks ken to make it clear.I'm sure i would have this side effects if i take it.I heard that cat's claw may help.


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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

Thanks ken to make it clear.I'm sure i would have this side effects if i take it.I heard that cat's claw may help.


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

> quote:It probably will not effect gas and bloating much


I believe that inflammation can cause mucus to be released in the intestines and cause mucus entrapped gas. With less mucus the gas is not entrapped and is free to be released.


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

> quote:It probably will not effect gas and bloating much


I believe that inflammation can cause mucus to be released in the intestines and cause mucus entrapped gas. With less mucus the gas is not entrapped and is free to be released.


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

http://www.mskcc.org/mskcc/html/11570.cfm is one of the most complete sources for side effects of herbs. I suggest anyone who uses herbs to bookmark it because it is often hard to find the drug interaction and side effect info on sites that sell herbs.


> quote:ADVERSE REACTIONSCommon: May cause diarrhea and lower blood pressure.Case report: Acute renal failure in a patient with systemic lupus erythematosus (SLE)(7) DRUG INTERACTIONSAntihypertensives: Cat's claw may cause an additive or synergistic hypotensive effect.Anticoagulants / Antiplatelets: Cat's claw may have an additive anticoagulant effect.CYP3A4: In vitro, cat's claw inhibits CYP3A4, indicating that it theoretically may increase the serum levels ofï¿½drugs such as protease inhibitors, nonnucleoside reverse-transcriptase inhibitors, cyclosporine, some benzodiazepines, and many others.


K.


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

http://www.mskcc.org/mskcc/html/11570.cfm is one of the most complete sources for side effects of herbs. I suggest anyone who uses herbs to bookmark it because it is often hard to find the drug interaction and side effect info on sites that sell herbs.


> quote:ADVERSE REACTIONSCommon: May cause diarrhea and lower blood pressure.Case report: Acute renal failure in a patient with systemic lupus erythematosus (SLE)(7) DRUG INTERACTIONSAntihypertensives: Cat's claw may cause an additive or synergistic hypotensive effect.Anticoagulants / Antiplatelets: Cat's claw may have an additive anticoagulant effect.CYP3A4: In vitro, cat's claw inhibits CYP3A4, indicating that it theoretically may increase the serum levels ofï¿½drugs such as protease inhibitors, nonnucleoside reverse-transcriptase inhibitors, cyclosporine, some benzodiazepines, and many others.


K.


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## Talissa (Apr 10, 2004)

Spasman, that was an interesting link you provided. Thanks. Someone there also liked "bowelsoothe"(chinese herbs):"I have suffered with IBD for 15 years. For the most part I have been able to manage the symptoms with a high fiber diet and daily doses of Metamucil or an equivilant product.Recently, during a particularly severe attack I was introduced to a product from Vita Pharmica in the U.S. It is a refinement of an Asian Herbal remedy. The product is called BowelSoothe. It has given me amazing relief from my symptoms and I would highly recommend it as an alternative therapy. Believe me I was very skeptical at first, but the Company has documentation of clinical studies regarding this product and offers a money back guarantee. Give them a try, I don't think you will regret it. "Will probably try bowelsoothe next, if ibsacol & aller-max don't work for me...Km, thanks for the reference link on herbal side effects!


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## Talissa (Apr 10, 2004)

Spasman, that was an interesting link you provided. Thanks. Someone there also liked "bowelsoothe"(chinese herbs):"I have suffered with IBD for 15 years. For the most part I have been able to manage the symptoms with a high fiber diet and daily doses of Metamucil or an equivilant product.Recently, during a particularly severe attack I was introduced to a product from Vita Pharmica in the U.S. It is a refinement of an Asian Herbal remedy. The product is called BowelSoothe. It has given me amazing relief from my symptoms and I would highly recommend it as an alternative therapy. Believe me I was very skeptical at first, but the Company has documentation of clinical studies regarding this product and offers a money back guarantee. Give them a try, I don't think you will regret it. "Will probably try bowelsoothe next, if ibsacol & aller-max don't work for me...Km, thanks for the reference link on herbal side effects!


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## Kacebece3 (Apr 17, 2002)

Thanks kmottus, that site about herbs is a good one which I have bookmarked.Ken


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## Kacebece3 (Apr 17, 2002)

Thanks kmottus, that site about herbs is a good one which I have bookmarked.Ken


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Your welcome.K.


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Your welcome.K.


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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

Talissa,i didn'nt notice it but yeah my link is loaded of infos.Also,the thread have 2 pages.


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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

Talissa,i didn'nt notice it but yeah my link is loaded of infos.Also,the thread have 2 pages.


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

> quote:intestinal hypermotility, particularly with an increase in small-bowel segmenting movements as seen at fluoroscopy, couplesd with an increase in mucus, favors the production in the small intestine of mucus entrapped gas or "frothing" which may be seen radiologicallly as loculated smal l intestinal gas.....Upon occasion, food materials may be coated with mucus and hurried into the colon , where these partially digested substrates favor fermentative changes in the colon. Enzyme supplememntation is frequently efficacious in therse circumstances


from "The Clinical Gas Syndromes- A Pathophysiologic approach" by Ivan Danhof


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## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

> quote:intestinal hypermotility, particularly with an increase in small-bowel segmenting movements as seen at fluoroscopy, couplesd with an increase in mucus, favors the production in the small intestine of mucus entrapped gas or "frothing" which may be seen radiologicallly as loculated smal l intestinal gas.....Upon occasion, food materials may be coated with mucus and hurried into the colon , where these partially digested substrates favor fermentative changes in the colon. Enzyme supplememntation is frequently efficacious in therse circumstances


from "The Clinical Gas Syndromes- A Pathophysiologic approach" by Ivan Danhof


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## Guest (Aug 28, 2004)

I'll try to address all the questions and thanks everyone for responding to this.Spas, at first i had some stomach discomfort - almost like a hollow acidic feel which generally means gas rentention for next day - but instead had diarrhea which also usually means gas retention - but didn't get much of that, strangely. By 2nd day stomach feeling disappeared. However I didn't see any improvement with my IBS really - just less visible bloating but still felt bound up wiht pressure. But on 3rd day noticed that i was peeing much less frequently (only when bladder was full). For past 3 years or so I have not been able to let my bladder get full - I have to empty it or I get a sensation in my throat, mouth, face like i ate a sour candy - feel extreme muscle tension and get "prickly" all over and get headache - just like all my nerves are puckering. after i pee all that goes away for another hour or so till i have to pee again. if i yell or laugh i get that sensation rather quickly - anything that tenses muscles etc - sometimes just talking will do it. well that is all gone since early yesterday. i'm peeing fairly normally/not too many weird sensations either. last nite i was able to release a lot of gas while lying on my back and afterwords my stomach felt flat and normal - that NEVER happens at nite; i can never fart at nite and never have flat stomach. today my bowels have been moving fairly normally - no running to bathroom,much less gas, am able to release gas, less spasms, MUCH less bloating, and i seem to have less mucous in my stool too. i very recenty started accupuncture and last week she recommended taking vita biosa (a fermented probiotic), and jarrodofilus to supplement my therapy. so it could be their effects as well.hopefully between the probiotics and synthetic anti-inflammatory good things will continue to happen - however i am skeptical this will continue.right now i'm more bloated that before and have some sensitivity and feeling to pee a bit, but not nearly as much as normal for evening.Eric,Can't changes in contractions, spasms, motility be brought on by colon being sensitized - thought this was how ibs worked. the gut tenses and sends message to brain then brain recognizes feeling of pain/bloating/discomfort sends message back to colon causing more spasms etc. So would it mean that if anti-inflammatory affected pain/discomfort levels that it could also normalize contractions/motility -- allowing gas/feces to pass etc.? Tallissa your thoughts on this? Flux (likes to play coy when I actually need help. HMMMMF!)Bonniei - that is interesting about the gas.


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## Guest (Aug 28, 2004)

I'll try to address all the questions and thanks everyone for responding to this.Spas, at first i had some stomach discomfort - almost like a hollow acidic feel which generally means gas rentention for next day - but instead had diarrhea which also usually means gas retention - but didn't get much of that, strangely. By 2nd day stomach feeling disappeared. However I didn't see any improvement with my IBS really - just less visible bloating but still felt bound up wiht pressure. But on 3rd day noticed that i was peeing much less frequently (only when bladder was full). For past 3 years or so I have not been able to let my bladder get full - I have to empty it or I get a sensation in my throat, mouth, face like i ate a sour candy - feel extreme muscle tension and get "prickly" all over and get headache - just like all my nerves are puckering. after i pee all that goes away for another hour or so till i have to pee again. if i yell or laugh i get that sensation rather quickly - anything that tenses muscles etc - sometimes just talking will do it. well that is all gone since early yesterday. i'm peeing fairly normally/not too many weird sensations either. last nite i was able to release a lot of gas while lying on my back and afterwords my stomach felt flat and normal - that NEVER happens at nite; i can never fart at nite and never have flat stomach. today my bowels have been moving fairly normally - no running to bathroom,much less gas, am able to release gas, less spasms, MUCH less bloating, and i seem to have less mucous in my stool too. i very recenty started accupuncture and last week she recommended taking vita biosa (a fermented probiotic), and jarrodofilus to supplement my therapy. so it could be their effects as well.hopefully between the probiotics and synthetic anti-inflammatory good things will continue to happen - however i am skeptical this will continue.right now i'm more bloated that before and have some sensitivity and feeling to pee a bit, but not nearly as much as normal for evening.Eric,Can't changes in contractions, spasms, motility be brought on by colon being sensitized - thought this was how ibs worked. the gut tenses and sends message to brain then brain recognizes feeling of pain/bloating/discomfort sends message back to colon causing more spasms etc. So would it mean that if anti-inflammatory affected pain/discomfort levels that it could also normalize contractions/motility -- allowing gas/feces to pass etc.? Tallissa your thoughts on this? Flux (likes to play coy when I actually need help. HMMMMF!)Bonniei - that is interesting about the gas.


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Joann, first did your doctor do a colonoscopy on you? And if he did did he see infallamtion with a colonoscopy, because if he did we are talking about a differnt inflammatory process.In order to see the inflammation in IBS they experts talk about, you have to peel back the layers of the colon and use an electron microscope and then they see single cells that are inflammed.The colon is hypersensitve to all stimuli, but first its important to know how it works.Normal digestion happens when you eat food it DISTENDS the colon. If youy took a clon and layed it out on a table, but it was still connected to a brain, but wasn't distened, you could cut it in half with a knife and not feel anything. But when it distends, then neurotransmitters are released to start digestion and they talk to the brain and report.In normal people the gut sends signals to the Anterior cinculate cortex and that releases endorphins back to the gut so you don't feel anything. But in IBS that does not happen well, insted the signal is sent to the prefrontal cortex, which is associated with anxiety. Irritable Bowel SyndromeClinical Issues "What would be an example of new understanding?Well one example is that we're starting to understand how the brain is responding to the pain in IBS. *There have been some studies done where they've artificially created a kind of an irritable bowel by placing a balloon to stretch the bowel, and that produces pain.* Then they've compared people with IBS to non-IBS, or "normal" individuals. And what they've found is that when you stretch the bowel-and use PET scans to monitor the response-in normal individuals, certain areas of the brain that register pain respond and release chemicals called neurotransmitters that suppress and lower the pain. But it seems that doesn't happen as well in people with IBS. *In fact, in people with IBS another area of the brain responds that is associated with anxiety. So what we find is that people with IBS, aside from having a bowel problem, may have some difficulty in terms of the way their brain is regulating the pain."* http://www.aboutibs.org/Publications/clinicalIssues.html as a side note when they put the ballon up there and distract the patient, they don't feel as much pain.""Neuroimaging has provided evidence of physiological differences between normal individualsand those suffering from IBS in the way a visceral stimulus (ie, rectal distention) is processed inthe brain.14,15 Initial data from positron emission tomography (PET) scans demonstratedincreased activation of the anterior cingulate cortex (ACC) among normal individuals, comparedto IBS patients. The ACC is a cerebral cortical area that is rich in opiate receptors and is thoughtto be a major component of cognitive circuits relating to perception as well as descending spinalpathways involving pain. More recently, fMRI was used to demonstrate increased activity in theACC, prefrontal (PF), and insular cortex areas, and in the thalamus of IBS patients compared tonormal individuals."







The above was one of the very first studies done, now they know more, but still need to learn more.







The above was a latter study.Serotonin is extremely important in this process of digestion in intiating the IBS: Improving Diagnosis, Serotonin Signaling, and Implications for Treatment CME"There are many neurotransmitters and hormones that mediate bidirectional brain-gut communication. Serotonin (5-hydroxytryptamine 5-HT) *is one of the key mediators of gut motility, secretion, and sensation. Most of the serotonin is localized in the GI tract and is found in enterochromaffin (EC) cells and enteric neurons.3 EC cells sense luminal factors such as food or mechanical distension in the gut* , and release serotonin; 5-HT receptors on intrinsic primary afferent neurons (IPANs) as well as extrinsic spinal or vagal afferent neurons are activated. The ENS regulates secretion and peristalsis, whereas vagal and spinal afferents modulate nonpainful and painful sensations, respectively.4 ""Pathophysiology of IBS and Serotonin SignalingAbnormal GI MotilityThe pathophysiology of IBS has evolved tremendously over the last 50 years. IBS was previously considered a disorder primarily due to abnormal intestinal motility. In the 1950s, a study by Thomas Almy 22 demonstrated that gut motility was increased in both normal individuals and patients with IBS when presented with a stressful situation. Subsequent research demonstrated that patients with IBS had increased motility abnormalities related to meals (ie, after eating) compared with control subjects.23,24 Studies have also demonstrated GI motility abnormalities, such as clustered contractions, prolonged propagated contractions, and high-amplitude propagating contractions more commonly in patients with IBS compared with healthy individuals.25-28 Although these motility abnormalities may be, but are not always, associated with IBS symptoms, there does not appear to be a consistent motility abnormality to explain the etiology of symptoms in all patients, and therefore, they are not currently used as diagnostic markers.Visceral HypersensitivityThe initial clinical observations that led to the hypothesis that patients with IBS have visceral hypersensitivity include recurring abdominal pain, tenderness during palpation of the sigmoid colon on physical examination, and excessive pain during endoscopic evaluation of the sigmoid colon. Experimental evidence suggests that a variety of perceptual alterations exist in patients with IBS: visceral hypersensitivity involving the upper and lower GI tract, as well as a heightened perception of physiologic intestinal contractions. Multiple studies using various balloon distension paradigms have reported lowered colorectal perceptual thresholds, increased sensory ratings, and viscerosomatic referral areas in patients with IBS compared with healthy individuals.[29-33] By contrast, most studies have demonstrated that patients with IBS do not exhibit generalized hypersensitivity to noxious somatic stimulation.30,34,35 At least 2 underlying, distinct mechanisms contribute to the visceral hypersensitivity in IBS: a hypervigilance towards expected aversive events arising from the viscera, and a hyperalgesia that is inducible by sustained noxious visceral stimulation.32Central Nervous System ModulationIn the 1980s and 1990s, a greater appreciation for the role of the "brain-gut" axis was achieved, and it was recognized that patients with IBS had a dysregulation between these 2 areas.36 In general, brain-gut interactions play a key role in the modulation of GI functioning in health and disease. Signals from the brain to the gut play an important role in ensuring optimal digestive function, reflex regulation of the GI tract, and modulation of mood states. Proposed alterations in the brain-gut axis in IBS are best supported by recent findings in functional neuroimaging studies. Using distal colonic stimulation, several studies have demonstrated alterations in regional brain activation in patients with IBS compared with healthy control subjects.37,38 These brain regions include the anterior and midcingulate cortices, insula, and dorsal pons (in the region of the periaqueductal grey) -- which are some of the most consistently activated brain areas in response to visceral as well as somatic nociceptive stimuli. *One area that is consistently activated to a greater degree in patients with IBS compared with control subjects is the anterior midcingulate cortex, a brain region concerned with cognitive processing of sensory input, including attentional processes and response selection. Furthermore, midcingulate activation correlates with the subjective unpleasantness of visceral and somatic pain. These observations suggest that patients with IBS may fail to use central nervous system downregulating mechanisms in response to incoming or anticipated visceral pain. They further show altered activation or deactivation of brain areas involved in the emotional or cognitive processing of visceral stimuli, ultimately resulting in the amplification of pain perception.* *Role of Stress and Psychological Factors in IBS* *It has been postulated that in the predisposed individual, sustained stress can result in permanent increased stress responsiveness of central stress circuits and vulnerability to develop functional and affective disorders.39 Stress may be central (eg, psychological distress) or peripheral (eg, infection, surgery) in origin. Numerous studies indicate that patients with IBS report more lifetime and daily stressful events, including abuse, compared with patients with organic GI conditions or healthy individuals.1 In addition, in patients with IBS, stress is strongly associated with symptom onset, exacerbation, and severity. Even though the effects of stress on gut function are universal, patients with IBS appear to have greater reactivity to stress compared with healthy individuals.40* A large proportion of patients with IBS or other functional bowel disorders have concurrent psychological disturbances, particularly those with severe symptoms or those seen in tertiary care referral centers. Psychosocial factors have been recognized to modify the illness experience and influence healthcare utilization and treatment outcome. These psychosocial factors include a history of emotional, sexual, or physical abuse, stressful life events, chronic social stress, anxiety disorders, or maladaptive coping styles.[1] A current conceptual model regarding the role of psychosocial factors and stress in IBS suggests that adverse life experiences (past and present) influence stress responsiveness, physiologic responses, and susceptibility to developing and exacerbating this functional disorder via amplification of brain-gut interactions.Role of Immune or Inflammatory MediatorsIBS-like symptoms have been reported in 7% to 30% of patients who have had a recent history of proven bacterial gastroenteritis; this has been termed postinfectious IBS (PI-IBS).41 *A subset of patients with IBS can trace the development of their symptoms to an episode of infectious diarrhea, primarily bacterial42 or amebic,43 and possibly even viral,44 in etiology. Risk factors for PI-IBS include female sex, duration of acute diarrheal illness, and the presence of significant life stressors occurring around the time of the infection.41* Investigators have found that there are colonic mucosal abnormalities in PI-IBS. One study compared rectal mucosal cellularity and intestinal permeability in patients at 2, 6, and 12 weeks and 1 year after an acute infection with Campylobacter enteritis with those of patients with a history of PI-IBS and healthy controls.[45] Compared with controls, patients with a previous Campylobacter infection were found to have increased numbers of intraepithelial lymphocytes and EC cells and increased intestinal permeability, even after 1 year, as did the patients with PI-IBS. When the secretory granules of the EC cells were evaluated, patients with PI-IBS had granules containing mainly serotonin. The EC cells in healthy control subjects had granules containing primarily PYY, a peptide associated with antisecretory effects. It is conceivable that these findings play a role in the GI symptoms (eg, diarrhea, mucus in the stool) in at least a subset of patients with IBS." http://www.medscape.com/viewprogram/2750_pnt Put more simply.When you eat pressure sensitve EC cells, sense food and they release serotonin to start digestion. They have found IBS d patients have higher serotonin in the the gut RIGHT after eating.It is known that serotonin (5-hydroxytryptamine or 5HT) is released from enteroendocrine (or enterochromaffin) cells in response to either chemical or mechanical stimulation of the gut mucosa. Serotonin in turn initiates peristalsis, and then the serotonin released is taken up in health by a highly selective serotonin transporter (SERT). One potential mechanism that could explain altered bowel function in IBS is an abnormality in the serotonin transporter itself. The study authors evaluated this hypothesis in patients with IBS with constipation and IBS with diarrhea compared with patients with ulcerative colitis and healthy controls. They were able to convincing show on blinded review that SERT immunoreactivity was less intense in patients with IBS with constipation and patients with ulcerative colitis. If these findings are indeed correct, they represent a landmark observation. The findings suggest that patients with constipation and IBS may have a reduced capacity to reuptake serotonin, leading to excess free serotonin and then desensitization of these receptors, thus reducing motor function. In contrast, in the setting of diarrhea, serotonin uptake was normal. If the underlying abnormality in serotonin transporter function alternated, then this would in turn explain alternating constipation and diarrhea. These data strongly suggest that IBS is a "real" gut disease and a potential diagnostic disease marker. They also suggest that it is valid to subdivide IBS into constipation and diarrhea symptom subgroups. This study also provides additional rationale for the use of serotonin-modulating agents in IBS and provides a new target for drug modulation. Confirmation of these very exciting initial findings in larger patient samples is awaited with great interest.Ask The Expert.Image of a cadeusus. .General Medical Questions.Q: I have suffered from irritable-bowel syndrome for many years. I get diarrhea. The doctors I've seen have offered little help. Recently, my daughter suggested I try an over-the-counter medicine called "5-Hydroxy-tryptophan," made by a company called Natrol Inc. My daughter says it is a mild antidepressant. It seems to have helped quite a bit, but it also seems to slow me down and make me feel tired. Can you give me any information on this? What is it, exactly, and are there any serious side effects? The only other medicine I take is Synthroid....The Trusted Source..Harold J. DeMonaco, M.S.Harold J. DeMonaco, M.S., is senior analyst, Innovative Diagnostics and Therapeutics, and the chair of the Human Research Committee at the Massachusetts General Hospital. He is author of over 20 publications in the pharmacy and medical literature and routinely reviews manuscript submissions for eight medical journals...June 19, 2001.A:Irritable bowel syndrome is now recognized as a disorder of serotonin activity. *Serotonin is a neurotransmitter in the brain that regulates sleep, mood (depression, anxiety), aggression, appetite, temperature, sexual behavior and pain sensation. Serotonin also acts as a neurotransmitter in the gastrointestinal tract.* *Excessive serotonin activity in the gastrointestinal system (enteric nervous system) is thought to cause the diarrhea of irritable-bowel syndrome. The enteric nervous system detects bowel distension (expansion) on the basis of pressure-sensitive cells in the bowel lumen (opening). Once activated, these pressure-sensitive cells promote the release of serotonin, which in turn promotes both secretory function and peristaltic function (the contractions of the intestines that force the contents outward). At least four serotonergic receptors have been identified to be participants in the secretory and peristaltic response.* *Patients with diarrhea-predominant IBS may have higher levels of serotonin after eating than do people without the disorder. This recognition led to the development of the first drug used specifically to treat diarrheal symptoms of IBS, alosetron (also known as Lotronex). Alosetron blocked the specific serotonin receptors responsible for recognizing bowel distention. In doing so, it blocked the effects of serotonin and reduced both bowel secretions and peristalsis.* *Constipation was the most common side effect seen.* *Tegaserod (Zelmac) is another drug under development and under review by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration for approval. Tegaserod is indicated for the treatment of constipation-predominant IBS and works to increase enteric nervous system serotonin activity.* *So, increasing serotonin activity in the enteric nervous system produces increased bowel secretions and peristalsis (and potentially diarrhea), whereas depressing serotonin activity produces reduced secretions and reduce peristalsis (and potentially constipation). * *Increasing serotonin activity in the brain would increase awareness and, in higher doses, produce anxiety, insomnia and restlessness. So I would have expected exactly the opposite effects of those that you experienced.* I am unable to identify any possible drug interactions between 5-HTP and Synthroid (levothyroxine) but the symptoms described suggest a check with your doctor may be in order. Persistent feelings of tiredness and constipation may be signs of an underactive thyroid (hypothyroidism).June 19, 2001 HarvardSerotonin, does not however travel itself to the brain, it stimulates nerves that signal through the spinal cord to the brain.So distension of the gut produces pain by the release of neurotransmitters.The mast cells are on the other end of the process, they are thought to be inflammed by a psycophysiological responce to chrnoic stressors. Defined as "acute threats to the homeostasis of an organism,25-27 be they real (physical) or perceived (psychological), and whether posed by events in the outside world or from within, evokes adaptive responses which serve to defend the stability of the internal environment and to assure the survival of the organism" The HPA axis, HYPOTHALAMIC-PITUITARY-ADRENAL (HPA) AXIS which fights infection, but is also the bodys stress system and fight or flight system, its thought to be over activated. This over hyperactivation, causes the HPA axis to effect the mast cells in the gut and inflame them without a pthogen, its a very complex circuitry.The neurobiology of stress and gastrointestinal disease http://gut.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/47/6/861 The above is from the author of Inflammatory Bowel Disease and Irritable Bowel Syndrome: Separate or Unified? (07/15/03)(Gastroenterology)The mast cells however are embedded in the colon wall, not on the extrenal surface, where you could see them with a colonoscopy. They don't see inflammation in IBS with a colonoscopy unless something else is causing it, such as diver or a host of other things that could cause it. Even medications for one, but there are many things, but in IBS its not visibale to the naked eye, you need to peel nback the layers of the bowel wall and use an electron microscope.Also you should know this for the info.Inflammatory Bowel Disease and Irritable Bowel Syndrome: Separate or Unified?Posted 07/15/2003 Sylvie Bradesi, PhD, James A. McRoberts, Ph.D, Peter A. Anton, MD, Emeran A. Mayer, MD " *Classic signs that reflect the inflammatory process within the gastrointestinal tract are rectal bleeding, diarrhea, fever, and weight loss, occasionally associated with extraintestinal manifestations.* *Interestingly, in the absence of complications, abdominal pain is not necessarily the most prominent symptom in IBD, despite extensive mucosal inflammation and presumably sensitization of peripheral visceral pain pathways.* Genetic predisposition, environmental factors, infectious agents, altered gut epithelial permeability, and impaired immune responses have been incriminated in the still unclear cause of IBD." http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/457728_1 alsofrom RomeIBS how far do you go in the workup."For example, there is a subgroup of patients, called "post-infectious IBS" who appear to respond to an enteric infection such as campylobactor jejuni with an increased inflammatory cell response (22). *This is associated with activating enterochromaffin cells to produce 5HT, and CD3 cells to produce cytokines, which in turn leads to enhanced motility and lowered visceral sensation thresholds * (22;23). *But microscopic inflammation cannot be a diagnostic marker for IBS because it does not typically produce pain in those who have it. All patients with active celiac disease have microscopic inflammation, but a large proportion do not have abdominal pain, and patients with ulcerative colitis who also have microscopic inflammation when compared to patients with IBS appear to have higher pain thresholds * (24). In individuals with these disorders, there may be central nervous system counter-regulatory measures responding to the peripheral pain/inflammatory processes that increase pain thresholds. *With regard to IBS, the gut-related effects of microscopic inflammation may be only one component of a dysfunctional brain-gut system. In addition, and often in response to stress, there may be a failure to activate descending pain inhibitory systems that enable the clinical experience of pain and other symptoms that typify this disorder * (25). *In one prospective study of post-infectious IBS, it was found that those who retained their symptoms 3-months after an enteric infection had not only increased mucosal cellularity, but also had increased psychosocial distress at the time of the infection.* *Furthermore, lowered visceral sensation thresholds and increased motility were present after the infection regardless of whether or not the patients retained their symptoms * (26). *Therefore, the microscopic inflammation and its physiological effects on motility and sensation contribute to, but are not always sufficient for the clinical expression of IBS pain.* *At least for post-infectious IBS this provides some evidence that psychological distress alters brain pain regulatory pathways to amplify incoming visceral signals leading to the full clinical expression of this syndrome (27;28). Recent studies using brain imaging (29;30)may help us to understand the physiological mechanisms that modulate these CNS responses to pain, and in the process, identify the subgroup with IBS that are more amenable to psychological and psychopharmacological treatments.* http://www.romecriteria.org/reading1.html as far as the bloating is concerned, it may not have a lot to do with the mast cells and inflammation. They do not fully understand bloating and distension in IBS, there not 100 percent positve it is part of the IBS problems.It may be related to different problems and it maybe IBSers notice it more also because they notice more things about there digestion in general do to sensitivity.Also I have talked about distension and the gut, gas distends the gut and then the cells sense the distension and release neurotransmitters, like food does. Hence why fiber causes pain in some IBSers.However.Am J Gastroenterol. 2001 Dec;96(12):3341-7. Related Articles, Links Sensation of bloating and visible abdominal distension in patients with irritable bowel syndrome.Chang L, Lee OY, Naliboff B, Schmulson M, Mayer EA.CURE/Digestive Disease Research Center, University of California Los Angeles, Westwood 90024, USA.OBJECTIVES: Abdominal bloating and distension are common symptoms of irritable bowel syndrome (IBS). *The postulated pathophysiological mechanisms underlying these symptoms include increased production, retention, or perception of gas or luminal contents.* The aims of this study were to prospectively compare the prevalence of, and clinical factors related to, bloating and distension in an IBS patient population. METHODS: A total of 714 consecutive patients who met Rome I criteria for IBS were prospectively surveyed, and were classified as having bloating alone (







or bloating and distension (B+D) based on a comprehensive bowel symptom questionnaire. GI, extraintestinal, and psychological symptoms, as well as health-related quality of life measures were also assessed using validated survey instruments. RESULTS: A total of 542 IBS patients (76%) who reported abdominal bloating were studied. Of these, 132 patients fulfilled criteria for the B group, whereas 410 patients fulfilled criteria for the B+D group. There was a significantly different gender distribution in the B and B+D groups (female:male ratios, 1.4:1 and 2.8:1, respectively p 0.02). There was also a significantly different bowel habit subgroup distribution, with a greater predominance of constipation in B+D group and of diarrhea in the B group (p 0.03). Both groups were similar in other clinical parameters, including progressive worsening of symptoms during the day, and relief by passing stool or gas. *Both bloating and distension worsened when other abdominal symptoms worsened. Abdominal distension was associated with greater symptom severity and less diurnal variation in symptoms, and was less often perceived as associated with food intake. * *CONCLUSIONS: Bloating and visible abdominal distension may arise from two distinct but interrelated physiological processes. Although the sensation of bloating may be related to enhanced sensitivity to visceral afferent stimulation, abdominal distension in more severely affected patients may be related to triggering of a visceromotor reflex affecting the tone of abdominal wall muscles.* PMID: 11774947 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...t_uids=11774947 also its pretty well know in most IBSers the bloating gets worse as the day wears on, so a lot of bloating and distension, does happen right when you wake up usally, but as the day progresses."Approach to the IBS Patient With Significant Persistent Abdominal Distension?QuestionWhat is the recommended approach to management for patients with irritable bowel syndrome (IBS) who present with significant persistent abdominal distension, presumably due to excess intestinal gas?Response from Yehuda Ringel, MD Assistant Professor of Medicine, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill; Staff Physician, Department of Medicine, University of North Carolina Hospital, Chapel Hill Abdominal distension and bloating are commonly reported in patients with IBS. In fact, Manning and colleagues1 originally included abdominal bloating as one of the criteria for the diagnosis of IBS, and suggested that it be used to discriminate IBS patients from those with organic diseases. *However, later studies using factor analysis showed only weak clustering of bloating and distension with the other characteristic IBS symptoms (abdominal pain and alterations in bowel functions).* Therefore, the international Rome committees for functional gastrointestinal disorders do not include bloating and distension in their diagnostic criteria for IBS, and *suggest that these symptoms may exist independently as a separate functional gastrointestinal disorder.* Although commonly reported, either in isolation or in combination with other disorders, abdominal bloating and distension has remained inadequately investigated. In view of our poor understanding of the pathophysiology that underlies these symptoms and the lack of available clinical trials specifically designed to evaluate these symptoms, the recommendations given to patients are based on the presumed pathophysiology and the physician's individual opinion.The recommended approach to the management of patients with abdominal bloating and distension should include identifying -- and then treatment of -- possible contributing conditions, such as small bowel bacterial overgrowth, malabsorptions, lactose or other carbohydrate intolerance, anxiety-associated aerophagia, and comorbidity with other functional gastrointestinal disorders. As with other functional gastrointestinal disorders, a patient's management should include education, reassurance, active listening, and support. Dietary and lifestyle measures might be helpful. These may include avoidance of certain foods that may increase bloating (eg, legumes, vegetables, fiber supplements, and high-fat foods). Weight loss for obese patients and regular exercise may increase the overall bowel function. Some over-the-counter products, such as simethicone, activated charcoal, and agents that help digest complex carbohydrates, have shown limited benefit in some patients and may warrant a trial. Based on the presumed pathophysiology, physicians may employ the use of prokinetic agents (eg, tegaserod, a 5-HT4 partial agonist that has been shown to reduce bloating in female patients with IBS with constipation) or treatments targeting visceral hypersensitivity (eg, antidepressants and psychological therapy, including hypnotherapy). Limited data also suggest a possible benefit associated with the use of antibiotics and probiotics in patients with small bowel bacterial overgrowth and IBS, respectively.Posted 05/27/2004 http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/478403


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Joann, first did your doctor do a colonoscopy on you? And if he did did he see infallamtion with a colonoscopy, because if he did we are talking about a differnt inflammatory process.In order to see the inflammation in IBS they experts talk about, you have to peel back the layers of the colon and use an electron microscope and then they see single cells that are inflammed.The colon is hypersensitve to all stimuli, but first its important to know how it works.Normal digestion happens when you eat food it DISTENDS the colon. If youy took a clon and layed it out on a table, but it was still connected to a brain, but wasn't distened, you could cut it in half with a knife and not feel anything. But when it distends, then neurotransmitters are released to start digestion and they talk to the brain and report.In normal people the gut sends signals to the Anterior cinculate cortex and that releases endorphins back to the gut so you don't feel anything. But in IBS that does not happen well, insted the signal is sent to the prefrontal cortex, which is associated with anxiety. Irritable Bowel SyndromeClinical Issues "What would be an example of new understanding?Well one example is that we're starting to understand how the brain is responding to the pain in IBS. *There have been some studies done where they've artificially created a kind of an irritable bowel by placing a balloon to stretch the bowel, and that produces pain.* Then they've compared people with IBS to non-IBS, or "normal" individuals. And what they've found is that when you stretch the bowel-and use PET scans to monitor the response-in normal individuals, certain areas of the brain that register pain respond and release chemicals called neurotransmitters that suppress and lower the pain. But it seems that doesn't happen as well in people with IBS. *In fact, in people with IBS another area of the brain responds that is associated with anxiety. So what we find is that people with IBS, aside from having a bowel problem, may have some difficulty in terms of the way their brain is regulating the pain."* http://www.aboutibs.org/Publications/clinicalIssues.html as a side note when they put the ballon up there and distract the patient, they don't feel as much pain.""Neuroimaging has provided evidence of physiological differences between normal individualsand those suffering from IBS in the way a visceral stimulus (ie, rectal distention) is processed inthe brain.14,15 Initial data from positron emission tomography (PET) scans demonstratedincreased activation of the anterior cingulate cortex (ACC) among normal individuals, comparedto IBS patients. The ACC is a cerebral cortical area that is rich in opiate receptors and is thoughtto be a major component of cognitive circuits relating to perception as well as descending spinalpathways involving pain. More recently, fMRI was used to demonstrate increased activity in theACC, prefrontal (PF), and insular cortex areas, and in the thalamus of IBS patients compared tonormal individuals."







The above was one of the very first studies done, now they know more, but still need to learn more.







The above was a latter study.Serotonin is extremely important in this process of digestion in intiating the IBS: Improving Diagnosis, Serotonin Signaling, and Implications for Treatment CME"There are many neurotransmitters and hormones that mediate bidirectional brain-gut communication. Serotonin (5-hydroxytryptamine 5-HT) *is one of the key mediators of gut motility, secretion, and sensation. Most of the serotonin is localized in the GI tract and is found in enterochromaffin (EC) cells and enteric neurons.3 EC cells sense luminal factors such as food or mechanical distension in the gut* , and release serotonin; 5-HT receptors on intrinsic primary afferent neurons (IPANs) as well as extrinsic spinal or vagal afferent neurons are activated. The ENS regulates secretion and peristalsis, whereas vagal and spinal afferents modulate nonpainful and painful sensations, respectively.4 ""Pathophysiology of IBS and Serotonin SignalingAbnormal GI MotilityThe pathophysiology of IBS has evolved tremendously over the last 50 years. IBS was previously considered a disorder primarily due to abnormal intestinal motility. In the 1950s, a study by Thomas Almy 22 demonstrated that gut motility was increased in both normal individuals and patients with IBS when presented with a stressful situation. Subsequent research demonstrated that patients with IBS had increased motility abnormalities related to meals (ie, after eating) compared with control subjects.23,24 Studies have also demonstrated GI motility abnormalities, such as clustered contractions, prolonged propagated contractions, and high-amplitude propagating contractions more commonly in patients with IBS compared with healthy individuals.25-28 Although these motility abnormalities may be, but are not always, associated with IBS symptoms, there does not appear to be a consistent motility abnormality to explain the etiology of symptoms in all patients, and therefore, they are not currently used as diagnostic markers.Visceral HypersensitivityThe initial clinical observations that led to the hypothesis that patients with IBS have visceral hypersensitivity include recurring abdominal pain, tenderness during palpation of the sigmoid colon on physical examination, and excessive pain during endoscopic evaluation of the sigmoid colon. Experimental evidence suggests that a variety of perceptual alterations exist in patients with IBS: visceral hypersensitivity involving the upper and lower GI tract, as well as a heightened perception of physiologic intestinal contractions. Multiple studies using various balloon distension paradigms have reported lowered colorectal perceptual thresholds, increased sensory ratings, and viscerosomatic referral areas in patients with IBS compared with healthy individuals.[29-33] By contrast, most studies have demonstrated that patients with IBS do not exhibit generalized hypersensitivity to noxious somatic stimulation.30,34,35 At least 2 underlying, distinct mechanisms contribute to the visceral hypersensitivity in IBS: a hypervigilance towards expected aversive events arising from the viscera, and a hyperalgesia that is inducible by sustained noxious visceral stimulation.32Central Nervous System ModulationIn the 1980s and 1990s, a greater appreciation for the role of the "brain-gut" axis was achieved, and it was recognized that patients with IBS had a dysregulation between these 2 areas.36 In general, brain-gut interactions play a key role in the modulation of GI functioning in health and disease. Signals from the brain to the gut play an important role in ensuring optimal digestive function, reflex regulation of the GI tract, and modulation of mood states. Proposed alterations in the brain-gut axis in IBS are best supported by recent findings in functional neuroimaging studies. Using distal colonic stimulation, several studies have demonstrated alterations in regional brain activation in patients with IBS compared with healthy control subjects.37,38 These brain regions include the anterior and midcingulate cortices, insula, and dorsal pons (in the region of the periaqueductal grey) -- which are some of the most consistently activated brain areas in response to visceral as well as somatic nociceptive stimuli. *One area that is consistently activated to a greater degree in patients with IBS compared with control subjects is the anterior midcingulate cortex, a brain region concerned with cognitive processing of sensory input, including attentional processes and response selection. Furthermore, midcingulate activation correlates with the subjective unpleasantness of visceral and somatic pain. These observations suggest that patients with IBS may fail to use central nervous system downregulating mechanisms in response to incoming or anticipated visceral pain. They further show altered activation or deactivation of brain areas involved in the emotional or cognitive processing of visceral stimuli, ultimately resulting in the amplification of pain perception.* *Role of Stress and Psychological Factors in IBS* *It has been postulated that in the predisposed individual, sustained stress can result in permanent increased stress responsiveness of central stress circuits and vulnerability to develop functional and affective disorders.39 Stress may be central (eg, psychological distress) or peripheral (eg, infection, surgery) in origin. Numerous studies indicate that patients with IBS report more lifetime and daily stressful events, including abuse, compared with patients with organic GI conditions or healthy individuals.1 In addition, in patients with IBS, stress is strongly associated with symptom onset, exacerbation, and severity. Even though the effects of stress on gut function are universal, patients with IBS appear to have greater reactivity to stress compared with healthy individuals.40* A large proportion of patients with IBS or other functional bowel disorders have concurrent psychological disturbances, particularly those with severe symptoms or those seen in tertiary care referral centers. Psychosocial factors have been recognized to modify the illness experience and influence healthcare utilization and treatment outcome. These psychosocial factors include a history of emotional, sexual, or physical abuse, stressful life events, chronic social stress, anxiety disorders, or maladaptive coping styles.[1] A current conceptual model regarding the role of psychosocial factors and stress in IBS suggests that adverse life experiences (past and present) influence stress responsiveness, physiologic responses, and susceptibility to developing and exacerbating this functional disorder via amplification of brain-gut interactions.Role of Immune or Inflammatory MediatorsIBS-like symptoms have been reported in 7% to 30% of patients who have had a recent history of proven bacterial gastroenteritis; this has been termed postinfectious IBS (PI-IBS).41 *A subset of patients with IBS can trace the development of their symptoms to an episode of infectious diarrhea, primarily bacterial42 or amebic,43 and possibly even viral,44 in etiology. Risk factors for PI-IBS include female sex, duration of acute diarrheal illness, and the presence of significant life stressors occurring around the time of the infection.41* Investigators have found that there are colonic mucosal abnormalities in PI-IBS. One study compared rectal mucosal cellularity and intestinal permeability in patients at 2, 6, and 12 weeks and 1 year after an acute infection with Campylobacter enteritis with those of patients with a history of PI-IBS and healthy controls.[45] Compared with controls, patients with a previous Campylobacter infection were found to have increased numbers of intraepithelial lymphocytes and EC cells and increased intestinal permeability, even after 1 year, as did the patients with PI-IBS. When the secretory granules of the EC cells were evaluated, patients with PI-IBS had granules containing mainly serotonin. The EC cells in healthy control subjects had granules containing primarily PYY, a peptide associated with antisecretory effects. It is conceivable that these findings play a role in the GI symptoms (eg, diarrhea, mucus in the stool) in at least a subset of patients with IBS." http://www.medscape.com/viewprogram/2750_pnt Put more simply.When you eat pressure sensitve EC cells, sense food and they release serotonin to start digestion. They have found IBS d patients have higher serotonin in the the gut RIGHT after eating.It is known that serotonin (5-hydroxytryptamine or 5HT) is released from enteroendocrine (or enterochromaffin) cells in response to either chemical or mechanical stimulation of the gut mucosa. Serotonin in turn initiates peristalsis, and then the serotonin released is taken up in health by a highly selective serotonin transporter (SERT). One potential mechanism that could explain altered bowel function in IBS is an abnormality in the serotonin transporter itself. The study authors evaluated this hypothesis in patients with IBS with constipation and IBS with diarrhea compared with patients with ulcerative colitis and healthy controls. They were able to convincing show on blinded review that SERT immunoreactivity was less intense in patients with IBS with constipation and patients with ulcerative colitis. If these findings are indeed correct, they represent a landmark observation. The findings suggest that patients with constipation and IBS may have a reduced capacity to reuptake serotonin, leading to excess free serotonin and then desensitization of these receptors, thus reducing motor function. In contrast, in the setting of diarrhea, serotonin uptake was normal. If the underlying abnormality in serotonin transporter function alternated, then this would in turn explain alternating constipation and diarrhea. These data strongly suggest that IBS is a "real" gut disease and a potential diagnostic disease marker. They also suggest that it is valid to subdivide IBS into constipation and diarrhea symptom subgroups. This study also provides additional rationale for the use of serotonin-modulating agents in IBS and provides a new target for drug modulation. Confirmation of these very exciting initial findings in larger patient samples is awaited with great interest.Ask The Expert.Image of a cadeusus. .General Medical Questions.Q: I have suffered from irritable-bowel syndrome for many years. I get diarrhea. The doctors I've seen have offered little help. Recently, my daughter suggested I try an over-the-counter medicine called "5-Hydroxy-tryptophan," made by a company called Natrol Inc. My daughter says it is a mild antidepressant. It seems to have helped quite a bit, but it also seems to slow me down and make me feel tired. Can you give me any information on this? What is it, exactly, and are there any serious side effects? The only other medicine I take is Synthroid....The Trusted Source..Harold J. DeMonaco, M.S.Harold J. DeMonaco, M.S., is senior analyst, Innovative Diagnostics and Therapeutics, and the chair of the Human Research Committee at the Massachusetts General Hospital. He is author of over 20 publications in the pharmacy and medical literature and routinely reviews manuscript submissions for eight medical journals...June 19, 2001.A:Irritable bowel syndrome is now recognized as a disorder of serotonin activity. *Serotonin is a neurotransmitter in the brain that regulates sleep, mood (depression, anxiety), aggression, appetite, temperature, sexual behavior and pain sensation. Serotonin also acts as a neurotransmitter in the gastrointestinal tract.* *Excessive serotonin activity in the gastrointestinal system (enteric nervous system) is thought to cause the diarrhea of irritable-bowel syndrome. The enteric nervous system detects bowel distension (expansion) on the basis of pressure-sensitive cells in the bowel lumen (opening). Once activated, these pressure-sensitive cells promote the release of serotonin, which in turn promotes both secretory function and peristaltic function (the contractions of the intestines that force the contents outward). At least four serotonergic receptors have been identified to be participants in the secretory and peristaltic response.* *Patients with diarrhea-predominant IBS may have higher levels of serotonin after eating than do people without the disorder. This recognition led to the development of the first drug used specifically to treat diarrheal symptoms of IBS, alosetron (also known as Lotronex). Alosetron blocked the specific serotonin receptors responsible for recognizing bowel distention. In doing so, it blocked the effects of serotonin and reduced both bowel secretions and peristalsis.* *Constipation was the most common side effect seen.* *Tegaserod (Zelmac) is another drug under development and under review by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration for approval. Tegaserod is indicated for the treatment of constipation-predominant IBS and works to increase enteric nervous system serotonin activity.* *So, increasing serotonin activity in the enteric nervous system produces increased bowel secretions and peristalsis (and potentially diarrhea), whereas depressing serotonin activity produces reduced secretions and reduce peristalsis (and potentially constipation). * *Increasing serotonin activity in the brain would increase awareness and, in higher doses, produce anxiety, insomnia and restlessness. So I would have expected exactly the opposite effects of those that you experienced.* I am unable to identify any possible drug interactions between 5-HTP and Synthroid (levothyroxine) but the symptoms described suggest a check with your doctor may be in order. Persistent feelings of tiredness and constipation may be signs of an underactive thyroid (hypothyroidism).June 19, 2001 HarvardSerotonin, does not however travel itself to the brain, it stimulates nerves that signal through the spinal cord to the brain.So distension of the gut produces pain by the release of neurotransmitters.The mast cells are on the other end of the process, they are thought to be inflammed by a psycophysiological responce to chrnoic stressors. Defined as "acute threats to the homeostasis of an organism,25-27 be they real (physical) or perceived (psychological), and whether posed by events in the outside world or from within, evokes adaptive responses which serve to defend the stability of the internal environment and to assure the survival of the organism" The HPA axis, HYPOTHALAMIC-PITUITARY-ADRENAL (HPA) AXIS which fights infection, but is also the bodys stress system and fight or flight system, its thought to be over activated. This over hyperactivation, causes the HPA axis to effect the mast cells in the gut and inflame them without a pthogen, its a very complex circuitry.The neurobiology of stress and gastrointestinal disease http://gut.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/47/6/861 The above is from the author of Inflammatory Bowel Disease and Irritable Bowel Syndrome: Separate or Unified? (07/15/03)(Gastroenterology)The mast cells however are embedded in the colon wall, not on the extrenal surface, where you could see them with a colonoscopy. They don't see inflammation in IBS with a colonoscopy unless something else is causing it, such as diver or a host of other things that could cause it. Even medications for one, but there are many things, but in IBS its not visibale to the naked eye, you need to peel nback the layers of the bowel wall and use an electron microscope.Also you should know this for the info.Inflammatory Bowel Disease and Irritable Bowel Syndrome: Separate or Unified?Posted 07/15/2003 Sylvie Bradesi, PhD, James A. McRoberts, Ph.D, Peter A. Anton, MD, Emeran A. Mayer, MD " *Classic signs that reflect the inflammatory process within the gastrointestinal tract are rectal bleeding, diarrhea, fever, and weight loss, occasionally associated with extraintestinal manifestations.* *Interestingly, in the absence of complications, abdominal pain is not necessarily the most prominent symptom in IBD, despite extensive mucosal inflammation and presumably sensitization of peripheral visceral pain pathways.* Genetic predisposition, environmental factors, infectious agents, altered gut epithelial permeability, and impaired immune responses have been incriminated in the still unclear cause of IBD." http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/457728_1 alsofrom RomeIBS how far do you go in the workup."For example, there is a subgroup of patients, called "post-infectious IBS" who appear to respond to an enteric infection such as campylobactor jejuni with an increased inflammatory cell response (22). *This is associated with activating enterochromaffin cells to produce 5HT, and CD3 cells to produce cytokines, which in turn leads to enhanced motility and lowered visceral sensation thresholds * (22;23). *But microscopic inflammation cannot be a diagnostic marker for IBS because it does not typically produce pain in those who have it. All patients with active celiac disease have microscopic inflammation, but a large proportion do not have abdominal pain, and patients with ulcerative colitis who also have microscopic inflammation when compared to patients with IBS appear to have higher pain thresholds * (24). In individuals with these disorders, there may be central nervous system counter-regulatory measures responding to the peripheral pain/inflammatory processes that increase pain thresholds. *With regard to IBS, the gut-related effects of microscopic inflammation may be only one component of a dysfunctional brain-gut system. In addition, and often in response to stress, there may be a failure to activate descending pain inhibitory systems that enable the clinical experience of pain and other symptoms that typify this disorder * (25). *In one prospective study of post-infectious IBS, it was found that those who retained their symptoms 3-months after an enteric infection had not only increased mucosal cellularity, but also had increased psychosocial distress at the time of the infection.* *Furthermore, lowered visceral sensation thresholds and increased motility were present after the infection regardless of whether or not the patients retained their symptoms * (26). *Therefore, the microscopic inflammation and its physiological effects on motility and sensation contribute to, but are not always sufficient for the clinical expression of IBS pain.* *At least for post-infectious IBS this provides some evidence that psychological distress alters brain pain regulatory pathways to amplify incoming visceral signals leading to the full clinical expression of this syndrome (27;28). Recent studies using brain imaging (29;30)may help us to understand the physiological mechanisms that modulate these CNS responses to pain, and in the process, identify the subgroup with IBS that are more amenable to psychological and psychopharmacological treatments.* http://www.romecriteria.org/reading1.html as far as the bloating is concerned, it may not have a lot to do with the mast cells and inflammation. They do not fully understand bloating and distension in IBS, there not 100 percent positve it is part of the IBS problems.It may be related to different problems and it maybe IBSers notice it more also because they notice more things about there digestion in general do to sensitivity.Also I have talked about distension and the gut, gas distends the gut and then the cells sense the distension and release neurotransmitters, like food does. Hence why fiber causes pain in some IBSers.However.Am J Gastroenterol. 2001 Dec;96(12):3341-7. Related Articles, Links Sensation of bloating and visible abdominal distension in patients with irritable bowel syndrome.Chang L, Lee OY, Naliboff B, Schmulson M, Mayer EA.CURE/Digestive Disease Research Center, University of California Los Angeles, Westwood 90024, USA.OBJECTIVES: Abdominal bloating and distension are common symptoms of irritable bowel syndrome (IBS). *The postulated pathophysiological mechanisms underlying these symptoms include increased production, retention, or perception of gas or luminal contents.* The aims of this study were to prospectively compare the prevalence of, and clinical factors related to, bloating and distension in an IBS patient population. METHODS: A total of 714 consecutive patients who met Rome I criteria for IBS were prospectively surveyed, and were classified as having bloating alone (







or bloating and distension (B+D) based on a comprehensive bowel symptom questionnaire. GI, extraintestinal, and psychological symptoms, as well as health-related quality of life measures were also assessed using validated survey instruments. RESULTS: A total of 542 IBS patients (76%) who reported abdominal bloating were studied. Of these, 132 patients fulfilled criteria for the B group, whereas 410 patients fulfilled criteria for the B+D group. There was a significantly different gender distribution in the B and B+D groups (female:male ratios, 1.4:1 and 2.8:1, respectively p 0.02). There was also a significantly different bowel habit subgroup distribution, with a greater predominance of constipation in B+D group and of diarrhea in the B group (p 0.03). Both groups were similar in other clinical parameters, including progressive worsening of symptoms during the day, and relief by passing stool or gas. *Both bloating and distension worsened when other abdominal symptoms worsened. Abdominal distension was associated with greater symptom severity and less diurnal variation in symptoms, and was less often perceived as associated with food intake. * *CONCLUSIONS: Bloating and visible abdominal distension may arise from two distinct but interrelated physiological processes. Although the sensation of bloating may be related to enhanced sensitivity to visceral afferent stimulation, abdominal distension in more severely affected patients may be related to triggering of a visceromotor reflex affecting the tone of abdominal wall muscles.* PMID: 11774947 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...t_uids=11774947 also its pretty well know in most IBSers the bloating gets worse as the day wears on, so a lot of bloating and distension, does happen right when you wake up usally, but as the day progresses."Approach to the IBS Patient With Significant Persistent Abdominal Distension?QuestionWhat is the recommended approach to management for patients with irritable bowel syndrome (IBS) who present with significant persistent abdominal distension, presumably due to excess intestinal gas?Response from Yehuda Ringel, MD Assistant Professor of Medicine, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill; Staff Physician, Department of Medicine, University of North Carolina Hospital, Chapel Hill Abdominal distension and bloating are commonly reported in patients with IBS. In fact, Manning and colleagues1 originally included abdominal bloating as one of the criteria for the diagnosis of IBS, and suggested that it be used to discriminate IBS patients from those with organic diseases. *However, later studies using factor analysis showed only weak clustering of bloating and distension with the other characteristic IBS symptoms (abdominal pain and alterations in bowel functions).* Therefore, the international Rome committees for functional gastrointestinal disorders do not include bloating and distension in their diagnostic criteria for IBS, and *suggest that these symptoms may exist independently as a separate functional gastrointestinal disorder.* Although commonly reported, either in isolation or in combination with other disorders, abdominal bloating and distension has remained inadequately investigated. In view of our poor understanding of the pathophysiology that underlies these symptoms and the lack of available clinical trials specifically designed to evaluate these symptoms, the recommendations given to patients are based on the presumed pathophysiology and the physician's individual opinion.The recommended approach to the management of patients with abdominal bloating and distension should include identifying -- and then treatment of -- possible contributing conditions, such as small bowel bacterial overgrowth, malabsorptions, lactose or other carbohydrate intolerance, anxiety-associated aerophagia, and comorbidity with other functional gastrointestinal disorders. As with other functional gastrointestinal disorders, a patient's management should include education, reassurance, active listening, and support. Dietary and lifestyle measures might be helpful. These may include avoidance of certain foods that may increase bloating (eg, legumes, vegetables, fiber supplements, and high-fat foods). Weight loss for obese patients and regular exercise may increase the overall bowel function. Some over-the-counter products, such as simethicone, activated charcoal, and agents that help digest complex carbohydrates, have shown limited benefit in some patients and may warrant a trial. Based on the presumed pathophysiology, physicians may employ the use of prokinetic agents (eg, tegaserod, a 5-HT4 partial agonist that has been shown to reduce bloating in female patients with IBS with constipation) or treatments targeting visceral hypersensitivity (eg, antidepressants and psychological therapy, including hypnotherapy). Limited data also suggest a possible benefit associated with the use of antibiotics and probiotics in patients with small bowel bacterial overgrowth and IBS, respectively.Posted 05/27/2004 http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/478403


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## Talissa (Apr 10, 2004)

> quote:So would it mean that if anti-inflammatory affected pain/discomfort levels that it could also normalize contractions/motility


From what I've read, it's my opinion that this is so. I sure hope it is, Joan, I'm working very hard to get to 100% normal on this premise.It's good to know you're beginning to see some positive changes already!(btw, I think kel & Flux must be off on vacation together!







)...Bonnie, thanks for a good reference for my collection!


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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

Er-Q-:In order to see the inflammation in IBS they experts talk about, you have to peel back the layers of the colon and use an electron microscope and then they see single cells that are inflammed.I wonder if the infflamation can be see when the colon is under air pressure.??Also,why M.Gherson claims all the potential of Zelnorm when just ONly few IBSers can benefits from it?Yeah,maybe ONLY the normals subjects with C i presume.


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## Talissa (Apr 10, 2004)

> quote:So would it mean that if anti-inflammatory affected pain/discomfort levels that it could also normalize contractions/motility


From what I've read, it's my opinion that this is so. I sure hope it is, Joan, I'm working very hard to get to 100% normal on this premise.It's good to know you're beginning to see some positive changes already!(btw, I think kel & Flux must be off on vacation together!







)...Bonnie, thanks for a good reference for my collection!


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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

Er-Q-:In order to see the inflammation in IBS they experts talk about, you have to peel back the layers of the colon and use an electron microscope and then they see single cells that are inflammed.I wonder if the infflamation can be see when the colon is under air pressure.??Also,why M.Gherson claims all the potential of Zelnorm when just ONly few IBSers can benefits from it?Yeah,maybe ONLY the normals subjects with C i presume.


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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

Quote from Tal quote:So would it mean that if anti-inflammatory affected pain/discomfort levels that it could also normalize contractions/motility.Talnetant(Glaxo pipeline) should reduce the sensitivity as they claims it should.But from what i heard,the side effects are nasty.


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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

Quote from Tal quote:So would it mean that if anti-inflammatory affected pain/discomfort levels that it could also normalize contractions/motility.Talnetant(Glaxo pipeline) should reduce the sensitivity as they claims it should.But from what i heard,the side effects are nasty.


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## Talissa (Apr 10, 2004)

Joan, this is a quick ex of what "I've read" that led me on my current course~World Journal of GastroenterologyJuly 2003"Results of recent experimental studies on irritable bowel syndrome speculated that low grade inflammation of colonic mucosa, induced by changes in bacterial microflora, could affect the enteric nervous system, which is crucial for normal gut function, thus favouring symptom development. " http://www.wjgnet.com/1007-9327/9/1385.asp


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## Talissa (Apr 10, 2004)

Joan, this is a quick ex of what "I've read" that led me on my current course~World Journal of GastroenterologyJuly 2003"Results of recent experimental studies on irritable bowel syndrome speculated that low grade inflammation of colonic mucosa, induced by changes in bacterial microflora, could affect the enteric nervous system, which is crucial for normal gut function, thus favouring symptom development. " http://www.wjgnet.com/1007-9327/9/1385.asp


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## Guest (Aug 29, 2004)

Eric,I got about halfway through and then started zoning out. Will have to print this out and reread it - thanks for all the info. Some of it indeed, is stuff i didn't know.i think they have to get more at why/how people get conditioned in this different way as opposed to simply being satisfied with seeing how brains light up differently in those with ibs and those w/o. its like describing how a person feels/how a body reacts with a virus but w/o mentioning they have a reason to be sick. its like saying -- "person a. has cold clammy hands while person b. does not. its interesting to note that person a. also, do they know how the brain responds to negative stimuli in general. seems as though it might be a NORMAL process when somethign hurts for more areas of the brain to pay attention. perhaps the pain regulators that used to work in us stopped working after the gut was stressed too much. maybe if they kept the balloon in the normal patients longer, they'd see the brains light up differently after awhile. and then what? then everyone has ibs.the question that BEGS to be asked EYE think is: how do we get from normal to ibs. what is triggering it and more over, what keeps it alive? what is the process of conditioning and particularly how exactly does our colon condition our nervous system and how do we reverse that? you can give someone paxil, but why do they go right back to having ibs when the ssri is stopped? seems like there is a matrix of changes that either support each other in a vicious cycle, or perhaps an underlying trigger that has gone undiscovered - perhaps is inflammation??talissa i'll read the article you sent. this is what my doctor talked about.today my symptoms have returned somewhat, but things are still different - have much more normal bowel movements and still NO MUCOUS however the urgency feeling and all over nerve tweed issue has returned and i was bloated again. i also feel rather tired. something else new is happening. getting an achey diarrhea type feeling before i have to go - reminds me of what is used to feel like before ibs. its almost pleasant. before i'd get NO feeling of having to gut until i HAD to go and then it was MAJOR urgency. i still don't know if this is the accupuncture, asacol, vita biosa, or jarrodophilus.


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## Guest (Aug 29, 2004)

Eric,I got about halfway through and then started zoning out. Will have to print this out and reread it - thanks for all the info. Some of it indeed, is stuff i didn't know.i think they have to get more at why/how people get conditioned in this different way as opposed to simply being satisfied with seeing how brains light up differently in those with ibs and those w/o. its like describing how a person feels/how a body reacts with a virus but w/o mentioning they have a reason to be sick. its like saying -- "person a. has cold clammy hands while person b. does not. its interesting to note that person a. also, do they know how the brain responds to negative stimuli in general. seems as though it might be a NORMAL process when somethign hurts for more areas of the brain to pay attention. perhaps the pain regulators that used to work in us stopped working after the gut was stressed too much. maybe if they kept the balloon in the normal patients longer, they'd see the brains light up differently after awhile. and then what? then everyone has ibs.the question that BEGS to be asked EYE think is: how do we get from normal to ibs. what is triggering it and more over, what keeps it alive? what is the process of conditioning and particularly how exactly does our colon condition our nervous system and how do we reverse that? you can give someone paxil, but why do they go right back to having ibs when the ssri is stopped? seems like there is a matrix of changes that either support each other in a vicious cycle, or perhaps an underlying trigger that has gone undiscovered - perhaps is inflammation??talissa i'll read the article you sent. this is what my doctor talked about.today my symptoms have returned somewhat, but things are still different - have much more normal bowel movements and still NO MUCOUS however the urgency feeling and all over nerve tweed issue has returned and i was bloated again. i also feel rather tired. something else new is happening. getting an achey diarrhea type feeling before i have to go - reminds me of what is used to feel like before ibs. its almost pleasant. before i'd get NO feeling of having to gut until i HAD to go and then it was MAJOR urgency. i still don't know if this is the accupuncture, asacol, vita biosa, or jarrodophilus.


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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

I doubt it would be acupuncture.Do you think this thing EVER help anybody?It is not deep at all and i have been worst the few times i have been there.Putting needles just make the bowel more sensitive which is not the goal with an IBS treatment.Dr.Spaz aug.2004


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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

I doubt it would be acupuncture.Do you think this thing EVER help anybody?It is not deep at all and i have been worst the few times i have been there.Putting needles just make the bowel more sensitive which is not the goal with an IBS treatment.Dr.Spaz aug.2004


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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

Joan,i'm sure it is the anti-inflammatory drug,the others usually do nothing good(Vita biosa?).


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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

Joan,i'm sure it is the anti-inflammatory drug,the others usually do nothing good(Vita biosa?).


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## Guest (Aug 30, 2004)

spasman i think it is the anti-inflammatory too.i had a bad nite last nite but this morning my stomach is FLAT. flatter than its been in years. and i had a normal bowel movement. things continue to do well. the swelling in my muscles is also down - my calves are smaller than normal, my feet are fitting into my shoes better????? bizarre.with regard to the accupuncture - i had a strong reaction to it (face turned red on one side, and felt a tightening in my joints and a HEAT and pain and then severe lethargy afterwards - and i'm NEVER tired. so it is a possibility). but these healing effects really started about 2-3 days after i began the anti-inflammatory. i'm thinking its highly unlikely the jarrodophilus and vita biosa are doing this as i just started them.


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## Guest (Aug 30, 2004)

spasman i think it is the anti-inflammatory too.i had a bad nite last nite but this morning my stomach is FLAT. flatter than its been in years. and i had a normal bowel movement. things continue to do well. the swelling in my muscles is also down - my calves are smaller than normal, my feet are fitting into my shoes better????? bizarre.with regard to the accupuncture - i had a strong reaction to it (face turned red on one side, and felt a tightening in my joints and a HEAT and pain and then severe lethargy afterwards - and i'm NEVER tired. so it is a possibility). but these healing effects really started about 2-3 days after i began the anti-inflammatory. i'm thinking its highly unlikely the jarrodophilus and vita biosa are doing this as i just started them.


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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

Do you have trapped wind?If the irritation remains i guess you will not be cure.What the heck are this anti-inflammatory drug?


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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

Do you have trapped wind?If the irritation remains i guess you will not be cure.What the heck are this anti-inflammatory drug?


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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

O Eric explain above







Can you ask your doctor where he took his infos or something?Or he just do his own C.trial on you.







If it helps IBD, i guess we can be help even more.


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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

O Eric explain above







Can you ask your doctor where he took his infos or something?Or he just do his own C.trial on you.







If it helps IBD, i guess we can be help even more.


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## Guest (Aug 30, 2004)

things are still so much better. i do not have much trapped wind anymore. stomach still relatively flat. not a lot of sensitivity there either. mon - fri will be the real test as i have to wear form fitting clothes - something that sets off the spasms, sensitivity, trapped wind. etc.spas, i'll ask him in about 3 weeks.


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## Guest (Aug 30, 2004)

things are still so much better. i do not have much trapped wind anymore. stomach still relatively flat. not a lot of sensitivity there either. mon - fri will be the real test as i have to wear form fitting clothes - something that sets off the spasms, sensitivity, trapped wind. etc.spas, i'll ask him in about 3 weeks.


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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

Joan







Can you put yours mains symptoms in your signature to see if we share the same targets?


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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

Joan







Can you put yours mains symptoms in your signature to see if we share the same targets?


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

"and then severe lethargy afterwards - and i'm NEVER tired. so it is a possibility). "Susan,Acupuncture made me incredibly dopey, tired, and lethargic. Not only that but it made me laugh for about 3 to 4 hours afterwards --then I started to get sick. The next day I had mild flu-like symptoms. I read that this can happen.Last year (early October) I was ready to give Pentasa a try. This is similar to Asacol. I was talking to the doctor about it and he suggested I give homeopathy a try. They had just hired an acupuncturist/homeopath.I thought that this was the most ridiculous idea in the world, but i had been studying it for 3 months prior so i decided to give it a try. i wanted to be able to say that I had tried everything -- even the most ludicrous of things.anyway, 3 days after taking my prescribed remedy all traces of this horrible toxic/sick feeling that had plagued me for 6 or 7 years straight had disappeared. i was amazed and hooked. I could go on and on about other remarkable experiences, but no one believes it even works. I even doubt it, yet i know it happened.I am almost positive this is also why my IBS has finally completely disappeared after 20 years of every day misery.===I think that VSL#3 is a total waste of money. It did nothing for me.===


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

"and then severe lethargy afterwards - and i'm NEVER tired. so it is a possibility). "Susan,Acupuncture made me incredibly dopey, tired, and lethargic. Not only that but it made me laugh for about 3 to 4 hours afterwards --then I started to get sick. The next day I had mild flu-like symptoms. I read that this can happen.Last year (early October) I was ready to give Pentasa a try. This is similar to Asacol. I was talking to the doctor about it and he suggested I give homeopathy a try. They had just hired an acupuncturist/homeopath.I thought that this was the most ridiculous idea in the world, but i had been studying it for 3 months prior so i decided to give it a try. i wanted to be able to say that I had tried everything -- even the most ludicrous of things.anyway, 3 days after taking my prescribed remedy all traces of this horrible toxic/sick feeling that had plagued me for 6 or 7 years straight had disappeared. i was amazed and hooked. I could go on and on about other remarkable experiences, but no one believes it even works. I even doubt it, yet i know it happened.I am almost positive this is also why my IBS has finally completely disappeared after 20 years of every day misery.===I think that VSL#3 is a total waste of money. It did nothing for me.===


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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

I have tried Hylak an homeopathic remedies and another one and did nothing.What was your product kel?What was your symptoms?


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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

I have tried Hylak an homeopathic remedies and another one and did nothing.What was your product kel?What was your symptoms?


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## Guest (Aug 30, 2004)

Kel,when i had the accupuncture i had fairly intense pain at the needle points - then i felt a traveling poison type feeling between accupuncture point and particularly in my joints. i lost hearing in left ear and turned red on that side of the face. my hearing didn't return to normal for 3 days. i also had a tightening sensation in my jaw and hand. later that evening i felt pretty sever lethargy and flu-like symptoms. it was pretty amazing.today i'm doing terribly - major sensation in my but and throat - all the old stuff has returned. spas my symptoms are: sensation in my stomach area that makes muscles tense along my throat, back shoulders, constantly feeling full and big in stomach. unable to relax muscles when stomach is touched, pressure in my upper gut area under left rib, sneezing, regurgitating, tenseness, multiple bowel movements, urgency, mucous, but mostly this feeling that my bodies structure is "off". used to have a small waist etc, but now my bod is a totally different shape. bizarre.


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## Guest (Aug 30, 2004)

Kel,when i had the accupuncture i had fairly intense pain at the needle points - then i felt a traveling poison type feeling between accupuncture point and particularly in my joints. i lost hearing in left ear and turned red on that side of the face. my hearing didn't return to normal for 3 days. i also had a tightening sensation in my jaw and hand. later that evening i felt pretty sever lethargy and flu-like symptoms. it was pretty amazing.today i'm doing terribly - major sensation in my but and throat - all the old stuff has returned. spas my symptoms are: sensation in my stomach area that makes muscles tense along my throat, back shoulders, constantly feeling full and big in stomach. unable to relax muscles when stomach is touched, pressure in my upper gut area under left rib, sneezing, regurgitating, tenseness, multiple bowel movements, urgency, mucous, but mostly this feeling that my bodies structure is "off". used to have a small waist etc, but now my bod is a totally different shape. bizarre.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

Yes it is pretty amazing. After the 2nd treatment, the dopey feeling lasted for 5 entire days. I could not think straight (it was sort of like being on a powerful tranquilizer). I would have stuck with the treatment but it was expensive and I had already experienced something that bordered on the miraculous 2 months prior.What I have found out recently is that if you shop around you can find acupuncture for as low as $50 per session. I was paying around $90.My opinion is that acupuncture could prove to be a valuable part of a person's recovery. If people are looking for a quick fix (3 or 4 sessions) they will be disappointed.I really think the only way to beat our problems is through a multimodal approach.My chronic sinus inflammation has been reduced by about 75%. Nothing has done much to help it at all through the years. Approximately 8 or so homeopathic remedies did nothing to help it. Then I tried one that was specific for sinus problems -- Kali Bichromicum -- and it worked fairly well. A few weeks later i tried one called Aurum Muriaticum and within a few hours I heard this crackling sound in my nasal passages. It was my tissues receding. I have been in good shape ever since. I have no explanation for it and remain shocked. I do know that as many as 1/3rd of French general practitioners (and 20% of all German MDs) use these remedies.The problem with it is that is is incredibly hit or miss. *It has frustrated me to no end,* but I stuck with it and I am now at the tail end of a lifetime of problems.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

Yes it is pretty amazing. After the 2nd treatment, the dopey feeling lasted for 5 entire days. I could not think straight (it was sort of like being on a powerful tranquilizer). I would have stuck with the treatment but it was expensive and I had already experienced something that bordered on the miraculous 2 months prior.What I have found out recently is that if you shop around you can find acupuncture for as low as $50 per session. I was paying around $90.My opinion is that acupuncture could prove to be a valuable part of a person's recovery. If people are looking for a quick fix (3 or 4 sessions) they will be disappointed.I really think the only way to beat our problems is through a multimodal approach.My chronic sinus inflammation has been reduced by about 75%. Nothing has done much to help it at all through the years. Approximately 8 or so homeopathic remedies did nothing to help it. Then I tried one that was specific for sinus problems -- Kali Bichromicum -- and it worked fairly well. A few weeks later i tried one called Aurum Muriaticum and within a few hours I heard this crackling sound in my nasal passages. It was my tissues receding. I have been in good shape ever since. I have no explanation for it and remain shocked. I do know that as many as 1/3rd of French general practitioners (and 20% of all German MDs) use these remedies.The problem with it is that is is incredibly hit or miss. *It has frustrated me to no end,* but I stuck with it and I am now at the tail end of a lifetime of problems.


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## Guest (Aug 31, 2004)

kel, i'm not sure what to think since i wonder if our reactions might be somewhat psychosomatic.


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## Guest (Aug 31, 2004)

kel, i'm not sure what to think since i wonder if our reactions might be somewhat psychosomatic.


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## Guest (Aug 31, 2004)

tonite i'm feeling terrible again - this is typical then of the placebo pattern - 2-3 really good days and then back to normal. hmmmm. pretty let down.


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## Guest (Aug 31, 2004)

tonite i'm feeling terrible again - this is typical then of the placebo pattern - 2-3 really good days and then back to normal. hmmmm. pretty let down.


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Joanofarc, sorry to hear your not doing as well. remember no matter what you do even if it helps you can still have ups and downs while doing the treatment. Try not to get to discourage as that by itself can make everything worse.Also that placebo responce can be a very useful tool in IBS and something to learn about an understand, if thinking a thing will work makes it work in IBS, that information can be useful and can be applied its something useful to know about, that also means the brain has a lot of control over the syndrome and how we feel regardless of whats causing it, which they know anyway.I said this to someone else on another thread also, but it applies here as well."because they don't know the exact cause of IBS yet."When you understand IBS and the brain gut axis dysfunctions and dysregulations, the psychophysiological arousal is at the core of treating functional gi disorders. There is so much distress, anxiety, anticipatory anxiety, and negative reaction to symptoms, that calming the mind body often makes a significant difference in symptoms."also it is believed in big part the psychophysiological arousal is part of what they believe causes those mast cells to stay inflamed in IBS, after a gut infection that has subsided in PI IBS. The stressors can also reactivate the inflammation. Again, I am sorry to hear its rough right now, but stay positive you will feel better again.


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Joanofarc, sorry to hear your not doing as well. remember no matter what you do even if it helps you can still have ups and downs while doing the treatment. Try not to get to discourage as that by itself can make everything worse.Also that placebo responce can be a very useful tool in IBS and something to learn about an understand, if thinking a thing will work makes it work in IBS, that information can be useful and can be applied its something useful to know about, that also means the brain has a lot of control over the syndrome and how we feel regardless of whats causing it, which they know anyway.I said this to someone else on another thread also, but it applies here as well."because they don't know the exact cause of IBS yet."When you understand IBS and the brain gut axis dysfunctions and dysregulations, the psychophysiological arousal is at the core of treating functional gi disorders. There is so much distress, anxiety, anticipatory anxiety, and negative reaction to symptoms, that calming the mind body often makes a significant difference in symptoms."also it is believed in big part the psychophysiological arousal is part of what they believe causes those mast cells to stay inflamed in IBS, after a gut infection that has subsided in PI IBS. The stressors can also reactivate the inflammation. Again, I am sorry to hear its rough right now, but stay positive you will feel better again.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

"I have tried Hylak an homeopathic remedies and another one and did nothing.What was your product kel?What was your symptoms? "spas,I had so many symptoms I don't know where to start.i am not surprised that your attempt at homeopathy did not help. getting the right remedy can be very difficult. that is one of the main reasons why i don't even like to talk about it. It is more art than science it seems even though science is coming through to validate it. http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...26;t=002321;p=4 It definitely is not like taking a pill where it is almost guaranteed that some type of effect is seen in a short period of time. However, if my sinus relief holds out then it will be well worth the 9 to 10 months that it took.--and if the IBS relief holds out it will be well worth the 4 to 5 months that I had to wait. Concerning the IBS relief, the picture is a bit muddied up because i did quite a few things early in the year, and many of those things may have played a role. However, something huge happened right after I took the sulphur remedy. That is all i am going to say about it (there are too many details involved). I am still freaked out by the whole thing.All I know is that I can eat whatever i want now, and I am hardly concerned about my bowel habits any longer. The hypersensitivity is gone along with everything else.Believe it or not i think my Holosync CD played a role in that symptom disappearing.This is one of the reasons why I believe in multimodal therapies -- you never know what might work for what symptom.One thing I know for certain is that Western medicine is the biggest joke on the planet as far as IBS is concerned (my opinion).


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

"I have tried Hylak an homeopathic remedies and another one and did nothing.What was your product kel?What was your symptoms? "spas,I had so many symptoms I don't know where to start.i am not surprised that your attempt at homeopathy did not help. getting the right remedy can be very difficult. that is one of the main reasons why i don't even like to talk about it. It is more art than science it seems even though science is coming through to validate it. http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...26;t=002321;p=4 It definitely is not like taking a pill where it is almost guaranteed that some type of effect is seen in a short period of time. However, if my sinus relief holds out then it will be well worth the 9 to 10 months that it took.--and if the IBS relief holds out it will be well worth the 4 to 5 months that I had to wait. Concerning the IBS relief, the picture is a bit muddied up because i did quite a few things early in the year, and many of those things may have played a role. However, something huge happened right after I took the sulphur remedy. That is all i am going to say about it (there are too many details involved). I am still freaked out by the whole thing.All I know is that I can eat whatever i want now, and I am hardly concerned about my bowel habits any longer. The hypersensitivity is gone along with everything else.Believe it or not i think my Holosync CD played a role in that symptom disappearing.This is one of the reasons why I believe in multimodal therapies -- you never know what might work for what symptom.One thing I know for certain is that Western medicine is the biggest joke on the planet as far as IBS is concerned (my opinion).


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Am I correct kel, in your saying the "Holosync CD " got to the root cause of your hypersensitvity issues, or is it "masking the symptoms" like you always use to say about HT and other psycological therapies?"This is one of the reasons why I believe in multimodal therapies -- you never know what might work for what symptom"This is why its important to try one thing at a time systematically to see what does or does not work for a person, instead of a whole bunch of things at once and you never know for sure.I agree however on mutil approaches for sure are usally the most effective. The two biggest being diet and stress reduction what the experts in western medicine and a lot of alternative methods have been saying for quite a while now for IBS.


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Am I correct kel, in your saying the "Holosync CD " got to the root cause of your hypersensitvity issues, or is it "masking the symptoms" like you always use to say about HT and other psycological therapies?"This is one of the reasons why I believe in multimodal therapies -- you never know what might work for what symptom"This is why its important to try one thing at a time systematically to see what does or does not work for a person, instead of a whole bunch of things at once and you never know for sure.I agree however on mutil approaches for sure are usally the most effective. The two biggest being diet and stress reduction what the experts in western medicine and a lot of alternative methods have been saying for quite a while now for IBS.


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## Guest (Aug 31, 2004)

thanks for your encouragement, but problem is my placebo reaction always dies b/c i cannot believe for long that things help. i realize its a placebo reaction. i think that is why hypnotherapy did not help me. also b/c to envision myself relaxed etc. or my colon slowing down or speeding up, does nothing for me. i cannot put a language to solving this problem - it is outside of the realm of how hynptherapists describe ibs sensations/symptoms - so that is another reason why it does not work for me.perhaps i could create my own tapes? have you ever heard of that helping?i am as big as a house right now! my stomach is just pushing UP and OUT. all b/c I wore a skirt that rested gently near my navel. how does hypnotherapy address a trigger such as that? how do you turn that off when even in your sleep it is occuring. any thoughts on this?


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## Guest (Aug 31, 2004)

thanks for your encouragement, but problem is my placebo reaction always dies b/c i cannot believe for long that things help. i realize its a placebo reaction. i think that is why hypnotherapy did not help me. also b/c to envision myself relaxed etc. or my colon slowing down or speeding up, does nothing for me. i cannot put a language to solving this problem - it is outside of the realm of how hynptherapists describe ibs sensations/symptoms - so that is another reason why it does not work for me.perhaps i could create my own tapes? have you ever heard of that helping?i am as big as a house right now! my stomach is just pushing UP and OUT. all b/c I wore a skirt that rested gently near my navel. how does hypnotherapy address a trigger such as that? how do you turn that off when even in your sleep it is occuring. any thoughts on this?


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

> quote: Am I correct kel, in your saying the "Holosync CD " got to the root cause of your hypersensitvity issues, or is it "masking the symptoms" like you always use to say about HT and other psycological therapies?


Eric, all i can say is that by late march/early april i still had a small amount of the hypersensitivity. It came on usually at night in response to small amounts of gas, and it was worse around people than if i was alone. http://www.mercola.com/article/neuro_technologies.htm Holosync seems to have done something positive for that last remaining GI symptom. It was interesting the way it worked. The manufacturer warns that it may be unpleasant in the beginning and that is exactly what happened. I wanted to rip the thing off my head several times. This is one of the reasons why I think that your HT can possibly work for some people, or provide some type of valuable boost to their overall recovery.I take the middle ground on IBS. I think it is important to take care of the physicals (issues pertaining to intestinal flora, etc), and I also see a need to address a potential brain dysfunction.Not only that but I see another aspect of IBS beyond brain physiology or gut physiology. I think of it as "whole body" balance. This is something that I think acupuncture can help restore. I believe strongly in the Chinese principles of organ imbalance and their ability to slowly manipulate it back into balance.--and i will also go to my grave knowing for absolute 100% fact that homeopathy does indeed work. --and that this is the thing that has done something amazingly powerful for me. I could write a small book detailing all the phenomena that has occured. There is no way that it is placebo.It just may be the ultimate cure. I know that I am doing great. The Impossible Cure When I read this last year I was highly skeptical but now I know that it IS possible.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

> quote: Am I correct kel, in your saying the "Holosync CD " got to the root cause of your hypersensitvity issues, or is it "masking the symptoms" like you always use to say about HT and other psycological therapies?


Eric, all i can say is that by late march/early april i still had a small amount of the hypersensitivity. It came on usually at night in response to small amounts of gas, and it was worse around people than if i was alone. http://www.mercola.com/article/neuro_technologies.htm Holosync seems to have done something positive for that last remaining GI symptom. It was interesting the way it worked. The manufacturer warns that it may be unpleasant in the beginning and that is exactly what happened. I wanted to rip the thing off my head several times. This is one of the reasons why I think that your HT can possibly work for some people, or provide some type of valuable boost to their overall recovery.I take the middle ground on IBS. I think it is important to take care of the physicals (issues pertaining to intestinal flora, etc), and I also see a need to address a potential brain dysfunction.Not only that but I see another aspect of IBS beyond brain physiology or gut physiology. I think of it as "whole body" balance. This is something that I think acupuncture can help restore. I believe strongly in the Chinese principles of organ imbalance and their ability to slowly manipulate it back into balance.--and i will also go to my grave knowing for absolute 100% fact that homeopathy does indeed work. --and that this is the thing that has done something amazingly powerful for me. I could write a small book detailing all the phenomena that has occured. There is no way that it is placebo.It just may be the ultimate cure. I know that I am doing great. The Impossible Cure When I read this last year I was highly skeptical but now I know that it IS possible.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:and i will also go to my grave knowing for absolute 100% fact that homeopathy does indeed work....There is no way that it is placebo


What you just described is what a placebo is.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:and i will also go to my grave knowing for absolute 100% fact that homeopathy does indeed work....There is no way that it is placebo


What you just described is what a placebo is.


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

"It came on usually at night in response to small amounts of gas, and it was worse around people than if i was alone."This is psychological, based on a physiological probelms in the gut and brain.HT is not a placebo, just to set the record straight and I was really talking about HT."Not only that but I see another aspect of IBS beyond brain physiology or gut physiology."This is the mind body medicine, especially important because the brain is in charge of most of the show.Hypnoytherapy for IBS uses imagination and metaphor the language of the mind, the brain does not repond to words as well as imagery."This is one of the reasons why I think that your HT can possibly work for some people"You mean 80 percent. If you don't believe in something, that immediately is self defeating. "I take the middle ground on IBS. I think it is important to take care of the physicals (issues pertaining to intestinal flora, etc), and I also see a need to address a potential brain dysfunction."That's not the middle ground that is what the experts in IBS recommend, treating the brain and the digestive system.Homeopathy has not been proven to work scientifically, although its great it works for some poeple. I suspect it works in major part on the brain also.they are starting to map how placebo works in the brain.A lot of issues here are psychological.Joann, I am also talking about knowing this helps the symptoms in general, just that is important to know in IBS. For one it tells a person the brain does have a very strong influence on the gut and on the body and symptoms.You might do better with CBT for IBS which works on a concious level. A specific CBT for IBS therapist. "i am as big as a house right now! my stomach is just pushing UP and OUT. all b/c I wore a skirt that rested gently near my navel. "I have used to have the same problem only much more severe then it is now, however if I where tight pants it effects me the same way, but HT help the underlying IBS, one way it helps this is by working on the brain, so you don't feel or pay as much attension to sensations coming from the gut. On the bloating if the colon is relaxed its much easier to pass any gas that maybe contributing to the bloating distension. One reason they believe is happening in bloating and distension is the clon muscles are not relaxed, and this traps gas pockets. In someways putting up mental blocks it will not work, hinders it greatly from working.It also helps the brain gut communication to work better. But there are more ways it works then that however.For example they know now it works on the gastro colonic responce in IBS after eating.It can change how the brain interprets signals coming from the gut also, in the same part of the brain the ACC that is believed to be impaired in IBS.and Kel after all the problems you gave me in the past on HT and "masking the symptoms" here you are saying the same thing about something else, probaly working on a lot of the same ways in the brain." Am I correct kel, in your saying the "Holosync CD " got to the root cause of your hypersensitvity issues, or is it "masking the symptoms" like you always use to say about HT and other psycological therapies?"


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

"It came on usually at night in response to small amounts of gas, and it was worse around people than if i was alone."This is psychological, based on a physiological probelms in the gut and brain.HT is not a placebo, just to set the record straight and I was really talking about HT."Not only that but I see another aspect of IBS beyond brain physiology or gut physiology."This is the mind body medicine, especially important because the brain is in charge of most of the show.Hypnoytherapy for IBS uses imagination and metaphor the language of the mind, the brain does not repond to words as well as imagery."This is one of the reasons why I think that your HT can possibly work for some people"You mean 80 percent. If you don't believe in something, that immediately is self defeating. "I take the middle ground on IBS. I think it is important to take care of the physicals (issues pertaining to intestinal flora, etc), and I also see a need to address a potential brain dysfunction."That's not the middle ground that is what the experts in IBS recommend, treating the brain and the digestive system.Homeopathy has not been proven to work scientifically, although its great it works for some poeple. I suspect it works in major part on the brain also.they are starting to map how placebo works in the brain.A lot of issues here are psychological.Joann, I am also talking about knowing this helps the symptoms in general, just that is important to know in IBS. For one it tells a person the brain does have a very strong influence on the gut and on the body and symptoms.You might do better with CBT for IBS which works on a concious level. A specific CBT for IBS therapist. "i am as big as a house right now! my stomach is just pushing UP and OUT. all b/c I wore a skirt that rested gently near my navel. "I have used to have the same problem only much more severe then it is now, however if I where tight pants it effects me the same way, but HT help the underlying IBS, one way it helps this is by working on the brain, so you don't feel or pay as much attension to sensations coming from the gut. On the bloating if the colon is relaxed its much easier to pass any gas that maybe contributing to the bloating distension. One reason they believe is happening in bloating and distension is the clon muscles are not relaxed, and this traps gas pockets. In someways putting up mental blocks it will not work, hinders it greatly from working.It also helps the brain gut communication to work better. But there are more ways it works then that however.For example they know now it works on the gastro colonic responce in IBS after eating.It can change how the brain interprets signals coming from the gut also, in the same part of the brain the ACC that is believed to be impaired in IBS.and Kel after all the problems you gave me in the past on HT and "masking the symptoms" here you are saying the same thing about something else, probaly working on a lot of the same ways in the brain." Am I correct kel, in your saying the "Holosync CD " got to the root cause of your hypersensitvity issues, or is it "masking the symptoms" like you always use to say about HT and other psycological therapies?"


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

"and Kel after all the problems you gave me in the past on HT and "masking the symptoms" here you are saying the same thing about something else, probaly working on a lot of the same ways in the brain."My overall thought was that it could be beneficial to some degree or another. However, when I saw young Nikki suffering so much last January how could I not ask if HT might be masking something more serious.Possibly in some people it could be masking a bigger problem. Suppose a person had ulcers due to h. pylori bacteria but their psychosomatic oriented doctor was not up to date on H pylori and insisted that the ulcers were due to some brain-gut dysfunction. --Suppose the HT helped this person, would you not say that the HT is masking the real problem? Of course you would.However, I am not going to argue with you on this point because I think you understand the importance of my overall point. --multimodal therapies have the best chance to slay this beast.Concerning homeopathy, you people (flux) can think it is placebo all you want -- i'm the one who is free of all the GI misery. there is some hardcore scientific evidence that ultra dilute solutions are bioactive. No one has been able to successfully refute this as of yet.The ultimate joke will be on you Flux if the evidence becomes irrefutable when you hit the age of 70. I will be sure to look you up and say, "see, I told you so."By the way, a Swiss chemist Louis Rey has published what I guarantee to be the basis of the irrefutable evidence proving that polar solvents are capable of information storage. This was published in the prestigeous journal Physica A. http://www.vhan.nl/documents/Rey.thermoluminescence.pdf http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:F4wG_...physica+A&hl=en


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

"and Kel after all the problems you gave me in the past on HT and "masking the symptoms" here you are saying the same thing about something else, probaly working on a lot of the same ways in the brain."My overall thought was that it could be beneficial to some degree or another. However, when I saw young Nikki suffering so much last January how could I not ask if HT might be masking something more serious.Possibly in some people it could be masking a bigger problem. Suppose a person had ulcers due to h. pylori bacteria but their psychosomatic oriented doctor was not up to date on H pylori and insisted that the ulcers were due to some brain-gut dysfunction. --Suppose the HT helped this person, would you not say that the HT is masking the real problem? Of course you would.However, I am not going to argue with you on this point because I think you understand the importance of my overall point. --multimodal therapies have the best chance to slay this beast.Concerning homeopathy, you people (flux) can think it is placebo all you want -- i'm the one who is free of all the GI misery. there is some hardcore scientific evidence that ultra dilute solutions are bioactive. No one has been able to successfully refute this as of yet.The ultimate joke will be on you Flux if the evidence becomes irrefutable when you hit the age of 70. I will be sure to look you up and say, "see, I told you so."By the way, a Swiss chemist Louis Rey has published what I guarantee to be the basis of the irrefutable evidence proving that polar solvents are capable of information storage. This was published in the prestigeous journal Physica A. http://www.vhan.nl/documents/Rey.thermoluminescence.pdf http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:F4wG_...physica+A&hl=en


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99991532 It is a chance discovery so unexpected it defies belief and threatens to reignite debate about whether there is a scientific basis for thinking homeopathic medicines really work.The discovery has stunned chemists, and could provide the first scientific insight into how some homeopathic remedies work. What he discovered was a phenomenon new to chemistry. "When he diluted the solution, the size of the fullerene particles increased," says Geckeler. "It was completely counterintuitive," he says. ===========================================Gee, I guess we are still making fascinating discoveries all the time.--but certainly the human body could not respond to ultra-dilute polar solvents or polar molecules that have come into contact with polar solvents, could it?Afterall we already have the human body completely figured out, or do we?


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99991532 It is a chance discovery so unexpected it defies belief and threatens to reignite debate about whether there is a scientific basis for thinking homeopathic medicines really work.The discovery has stunned chemists, and could provide the first scientific insight into how some homeopathic remedies work. What he discovered was a phenomenon new to chemistry. "When he diluted the solution, the size of the fullerene particles increased," says Geckeler. "It was completely counterintuitive," he says. ===========================================Gee, I guess we are still making fascinating discoveries all the time.--but certainly the human body could not respond to ultra-dilute polar solvents or polar molecules that have come into contact with polar solvents, could it?Afterall we already have the human body completely figured out, or do we?


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

Back to the original topic of Asacol, I am interested in whether or not this could help you to some degree. Afterall, last year I had the identical thought which is why i tried to get a prescription for Pentasa.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

Back to the original topic of Asacol, I am interested in whether or not this could help you to some degree. Afterall, last year I had the identical thought which is why i tried to get a prescription for Pentasa.


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## Guest (Aug 31, 2004)

i just cannot accept homeopathy. i'm sorry kel. i may be wrong but it just doesn't make any sense. if we were affected by such minute dilutions we'd be affected everyday but what water touched etc. i think its nutsoid. i think people are probably getting placebo reaction from it. who knows though.i'm still feeling ill. lots of upper abdominable pressure and feels like muscle rather than gas or anything. sucks. am also going to the bathroom lots but it doesn't help it all - feels more like a reflex action.kel i don't know about this asacol. how can one tell when anything is happening. the only SURE response i got was with accupuncture but it has yet to affect my stomach. $90/pop!


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## Guest (Aug 31, 2004)

i just cannot accept homeopathy. i'm sorry kel. i may be wrong but it just doesn't make any sense. if we were affected by such minute dilutions we'd be affected everyday but what water touched etc. i think its nutsoid. i think people are probably getting placebo reaction from it. who knows though.i'm still feeling ill. lots of upper abdominable pressure and feels like muscle rather than gas or anything. sucks. am also going to the bathroom lots but it doesn't help it all - feels more like a reflex action.kel i don't know about this asacol. how can one tell when anything is happening. the only SURE response i got was with accupuncture but it has yet to affect my stomach. $90/pop!


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## Talissa (Apr 10, 2004)

Joan/Susan, I'm REALLY sorry your flat tummy didn't last long. At least you got a taste of the toned look? Maybe the meds just need more time. Maybe it was something you ate? (Too much wheat can puff me up).Well, I started on the natural anti-inflammatory "Aller-Max" with Histidine 3 days ago. I've gone once a day solid & normal in the am the past 2 days. This is good, down from 2-3 p/day. Although, I'm still high-dosing the fiber, and had pains today. And I'm bloated like crazy--not good for a pilates instructor! Can only guess, but it felt like constipation pains, so I'm hoping this means I'll really be able to wean off the 4 T daily of metamucil...or it could be placebo. I'm not a placebo person though(ie, I REALLY thought the following would help me & they almost immediately made me worse-molocure, caltrate, primal defense).So anyways, we can compare notes on our different anti-inflammatories!______________kel, I got a book on understanding homeopathy, & I still don't. The only thing I got from the book was that for it to truly work, you probably need to see a professional to "prescribe" exactly what would work for you. But did you notice on the melatonin thread that nath bought what he thought was regular melatonin, when its actually a homeopathic version of it? It's helping him alot he says...


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## Talissa (Apr 10, 2004)

Joan/Susan, I'm REALLY sorry your flat tummy didn't last long. At least you got a taste of the toned look? Maybe the meds just need more time. Maybe it was something you ate? (Too much wheat can puff me up).Well, I started on the natural anti-inflammatory "Aller-Max" with Histidine 3 days ago. I've gone once a day solid & normal in the am the past 2 days. This is good, down from 2-3 p/day. Although, I'm still high-dosing the fiber, and had pains today. And I'm bloated like crazy--not good for a pilates instructor! Can only guess, but it felt like constipation pains, so I'm hoping this means I'll really be able to wean off the 4 T daily of metamucil...or it could be placebo. I'm not a placebo person though(ie, I REALLY thought the following would help me & they almost immediately made me worse-molocure, caltrate, primal defense).So anyways, we can compare notes on our different anti-inflammatories!______________kel, I got a book on understanding homeopathy, & I still don't. The only thing I got from the book was that for it to truly work, you probably need to see a professional to "prescribe" exactly what would work for you. But did you notice on the melatonin thread that nath bought what he thought was regular melatonin, when its actually a homeopathic version of it? It's helping him alot he says...


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## Guest (Sep 1, 2004)

thanks Talissa. well this feels more like something is pushing but not moving. i have deep pressure in my chest and feels like a baloon about to explode - somethign that is closed on both ends. its hard to talk, move, sigh, breath, laugh. strange noises are coming out of my mouth b/c my vocal chords are so tense. i can't see how it could be wheat - seems more like a muscle spasm or obstruction.this is just what i always end up with. its sucks. i will take the meds for 2 more weeks and see what happens. i also have accupuncture coming up tommorrow.


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## Guest (Sep 1, 2004)

thanks Talissa. well this feels more like something is pushing but not moving. i have deep pressure in my chest and feels like a baloon about to explode - somethign that is closed on both ends. its hard to talk, move, sigh, breath, laugh. strange noises are coming out of my mouth b/c my vocal chords are so tense. i can't see how it could be wheat - seems more like a muscle spasm or obstruction.this is just what i always end up with. its sucks. i will take the meds for 2 more weeks and see what happens. i also have accupuncture coming up tommorrow.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:i just cannot accept homeopathy. i'm sorry kel. i may be wrong but it just doesn't make any sense. if we were affected by such minute dilutions we'd be affected everyday but what water touched etc. i think its nutsoid. i think people are probably getting placebo reaction from it. who knows though.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:i just cannot accept homeopathy. i'm sorry kel. i may be wrong but it just doesn't make any sense. if we were affected by such minute dilutions we'd be affected everyday but what water touched etc. i think its nutsoid. i think people are probably getting placebo reaction from it. who knows though.


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## Arnie W (Oct 22, 2003)

Kel, is it important to eliminate caffeine (and mint) when taking homeopathic remedies? I bought some products and asked the distributor about this and was told that it would be ok if I did not have caffeine/mint within 20 minutes of consuming the products. I'm not entirely convinced about that and wonder what you think. If the effectiveness is being blocked, I'm wasting my time.This whole placebo thing has me wondering. If the placebo effect worked for kel, why didn't it work when she was taking all the other remedies/supplements?


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## Arnie W (Oct 22, 2003)

Kel, is it important to eliminate caffeine (and mint) when taking homeopathic remedies? I bought some products and asked the distributor about this and was told that it would be ok if I did not have caffeine/mint within 20 minutes of consuming the products. I'm not entirely convinced about that and wonder what you think. If the effectiveness is being blocked, I'm wasting my time.This whole placebo thing has me wondering. If the placebo effect worked for kel, why didn't it work when she was taking all the other remedies/supplements?


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:This whole placebo thing has me wondering. If the placebo effect worked for kel, why didn't it work when she was taking all the other remedies/supplements?


Speaking generally about placebos, what is probably going on is that symptoms *naturally* fluctuate. Sometimes worse, sometimes better without necessarily any rhyme or reason. The placebo (or homeopathy, which is the same) for that matter has no effect on its own. However, it is possible in some cases for there to be some psychophysiological effect depending on the conditon. That would also be called placebo effect.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:This whole placebo thing has me wondering. If the placebo effect worked for kel, why didn't it work when she was taking all the other remedies/supplements?


Speaking generally about placebos, what is probably going on is that symptoms *naturally* fluctuate. Sometimes worse, sometimes better without necessarily any rhyme or reason. The placebo (or homeopathy, which is the same) for that matter has no effect on its own. However, it is possible in some cases for there to be some psychophysiological effect depending on the conditon. That would also be called placebo effect.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

> quote: Kel, is it important to eliminate caffeine (and mint) when taking homeopathic remedies? I bought some products and asked the distributor about this and was told that it would be ok if I did not have caffeine/mint within 20 minutes of consuming the products. I'm not entirely convinced about that and wonder what you think. If the effectiveness is being blocked, I'm wasting my time.This whole placebo thing has me wondering. If the placebo effect worked for kel, why didn't it work when she was taking all the other remedies/supplements?


Homeopaths can't seem to agree on a whole lot especially the topic of antidoting. My thinking is that when in doubt -- avoid. Avoid the coffee and especially avoid the camphor or menthol. It sounds strange but the truth is stranger than fiction.All I can say is that i would bet my life that homeopathy is not placebo. If some all-knowing supreme being came down to earth and asked me if i was 100% positive that homeopathy does as claimed (and if i was wrong i would be sentenced to death) -- my response would be yes it is the real deal.I will say that i completely understand everyone's deep reservations on this subject. I had them also. I thought it was utter nonsense. I even went so far as to debate a homeopath on the internet last year. her answers did nothing to convince me. I thought some of her replies were ridiculous, but other replies made me question my belief system.Several things conspired to finally make me take the plunge and it has turned my life around.I have to say that I both love and hate homeopathy. I hate it for many reasons. it is incredibly frustrating, homeopaths move at the pace of a snail with the treatment, and bad remedies are often selected. It is a fact that in Europe 10's of thousands of medical doctors embrace this treatment. Are we all insane?can anyone refute the studies i posted in the constipation forum? i have dozens more if anyone wants to give it a try. http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...26;t=002321;p=4 Flux,It is not a fluctuation. It is a flat out cure. In 12 days i will be celebrating my 7th month of freedom. This is after 20 years of EVERYDAYsuffering. What next, you're going to tell me i am making it all up?============================================Susan,I have no idea any longer about drugs. I would think though that you could find some reasonably priced acupuncture in Chinatown. Hands down i would try to find some Chinese herbalist to treat me with chinese herbs.I did it earlier this year. The herbs fill up an entire large pot. You boil them up and drink the tea. The stuff is plain nasty, but they seem to work to some degree or another. They cleared out my lungs and sinuses, but my sinuses continued to be inflammed. i quit going after the 200c sulphur remedy single handedly wiped out my severe food allergies (Ripley's believe it or not). --so i don't know if chinese herbs would have solved the problem by itself.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

> quote: Kel, is it important to eliminate caffeine (and mint) when taking homeopathic remedies? I bought some products and asked the distributor about this and was told that it would be ok if I did not have caffeine/mint within 20 minutes of consuming the products. I'm not entirely convinced about that and wonder what you think. If the effectiveness is being blocked, I'm wasting my time.This whole placebo thing has me wondering. If the placebo effect worked for kel, why didn't it work when she was taking all the other remedies/supplements?


Homeopaths can't seem to agree on a whole lot especially the topic of antidoting. My thinking is that when in doubt -- avoid. Avoid the coffee and especially avoid the camphor or menthol. It sounds strange but the truth is stranger than fiction.All I can say is that i would bet my life that homeopathy is not placebo. If some all-knowing supreme being came down to earth and asked me if i was 100% positive that homeopathy does as claimed (and if i was wrong i would be sentenced to death) -- my response would be yes it is the real deal.I will say that i completely understand everyone's deep reservations on this subject. I had them also. I thought it was utter nonsense. I even went so far as to debate a homeopath on the internet last year. her answers did nothing to convince me. I thought some of her replies were ridiculous, but other replies made me question my belief system.Several things conspired to finally make me take the plunge and it has turned my life around.I have to say that I both love and hate homeopathy. I hate it for many reasons. it is incredibly frustrating, homeopaths move at the pace of a snail with the treatment, and bad remedies are often selected. It is a fact that in Europe 10's of thousands of medical doctors embrace this treatment. Are we all insane?can anyone refute the studies i posted in the constipation forum? i have dozens more if anyone wants to give it a try. http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...26;t=002321;p=4 Flux,It is not a fluctuation. It is a flat out cure. In 12 days i will be celebrating my 7th month of freedom. This is after 20 years of EVERYDAYsuffering. What next, you're going to tell me i am making it all up?============================================Susan,I have no idea any longer about drugs. I would think though that you could find some reasonably priced acupuncture in Chinatown. Hands down i would try to find some Chinese herbalist to treat me with chinese herbs.I did it earlier this year. The herbs fill up an entire large pot. You boil them up and drink the tea. The stuff is plain nasty, but they seem to work to some degree or another. They cleared out my lungs and sinuses, but my sinuses continued to be inflammed. i quit going after the 200c sulphur remedy single handedly wiped out my severe food allergies (Ripley's believe it or not). --so i don't know if chinese herbs would have solved the problem by itself.


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## Arnie W (Oct 22, 2003)

Thanks for your reply, kel. I thought you might give that advice, and coffee is the one treat I allow myself. It would be a shame for it not to work because I inadvertently cheated.I'm sure you understand that my reference to placebo was not to suggest that I thought that is where your cure came from. I just think that if you were a suitable candidate for the placebo effect you would have saved yourself years of discomfort and research, as well as thousands and thousands of dollars.


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## Arnie W (Oct 22, 2003)

Thanks for your reply, kel. I thought you might give that advice, and coffee is the one treat I allow myself. It would be a shame for it not to work because I inadvertently cheated.I'm sure you understand that my reference to placebo was not to suggest that I thought that is where your cure came from. I just think that if you were a suitable candidate for the placebo effect you would have saved yourself years of discomfort and research, as well as thousands and thousands of dollars.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

No problem Arnie --you seem very open minded. I was just writing in general.I completely understand it when people attack it or think it is a placebo. That is exactly what i thought. All i can say is that the truth is stranger than fiction. --and sometimes i think that the sicker the person the more likely they are to think that something is a scam. At least that is the way things operated with me.One of these days i want to go through the archives and collect the 50 or so positive testimonials that I have come across the past 15 months or so concerning homeopathy.The one that piqued my curiosity the most is from a member named Garywest from India. I think it took him a total of about 3 months treatment to get almost total control over his anxiety, panic and IBS.The other was from a school teacher named Linda C.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

No problem Arnie --you seem very open minded. I was just writing in general.I completely understand it when people attack it or think it is a placebo. That is exactly what i thought. All i can say is that the truth is stranger than fiction. --and sometimes i think that the sicker the person the more likely they are to think that something is a scam. At least that is the way things operated with me.One of these days i want to go through the archives and collect the 50 or so positive testimonials that I have come across the past 15 months or so concerning homeopathy.The one that piqued my curiosity the most is from a member named Garywest from India. I think it took him a total of about 3 months treatment to get almost total control over his anxiety, panic and IBS.The other was from a school teacher named Linda C.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:What next, you're going to tell me i am making it all up?


You are making it all up.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:What next, you're going to tell me i am making it all up?


You are making it all up.


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Aliment Pharmacol Ther. 2004 Jul;20 Suppl 2:1-9. Related Articles, Links New pathophysiological mechanisms in irritable bowel syndrome.Barbara G, De Giorgio R, Stanghellini V, Cremon C, Salvioli B, Corinaldesi R.Department of Internal Medicine and Gastroenterology, University of Bologna, Italy.Summary Irritable bowel syndrome (IBS) is a functional, multifactorial disease characterized by abdominal pain and erratic bowel habit. Changes in gastrointestinal motor function, enhanced perception of stimuli arising from the gut wall and psychosocial factors are thought to be major contributors for symptom generation. In recent years, several additional factors have been identified and postulated to interact with these classical mechanisms. Reduced ability to expel intestinal gas with consequent gas trapping and bowel distension may contribute to abdominal discomfort/pain and bloating. Abnormal activation of certain brain regions following painful stimulation of the rectum suggests altered processing of afferent signals. An acute gastrointestinal infection is now a recognized aetiological factor for symptom development in a subset of IBS patients (i.e. post-infectious IBS), who are probably unable to down-regulate the initial inflammatory stimulus efficiently. Furthermore, low-grade inflammatory infiltration and activation of mast cells in proximity to nerves in the colonic mucosa may also participate in the frequency and severity of perceived abdominal pain in post-infectious and non-specific IBS. Initial evidence suggests the existence of changes in gut microflora, serotonin metabolism and a genetic contribution in IBS pathophysiology. These novel mechanisms may aid a better understanding of the complex pathophysiology of IBS and to develop new therapies.PMID: 15335408


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Aliment Pharmacol Ther. 2004 Jul;20 Suppl 2:1-9. Related Articles, Links New pathophysiological mechanisms in irritable bowel syndrome.Barbara G, De Giorgio R, Stanghellini V, Cremon C, Salvioli B, Corinaldesi R.Department of Internal Medicine and Gastroenterology, University of Bologna, Italy.Summary Irritable bowel syndrome (IBS) is a functional, multifactorial disease characterized by abdominal pain and erratic bowel habit. Changes in gastrointestinal motor function, enhanced perception of stimuli arising from the gut wall and psychosocial factors are thought to be major contributors for symptom generation. In recent years, several additional factors have been identified and postulated to interact with these classical mechanisms. Reduced ability to expel intestinal gas with consequent gas trapping and bowel distension may contribute to abdominal discomfort/pain and bloating. Abnormal activation of certain brain regions following painful stimulation of the rectum suggests altered processing of afferent signals. An acute gastrointestinal infection is now a recognized aetiological factor for symptom development in a subset of IBS patients (i.e. post-infectious IBS), who are probably unable to down-regulate the initial inflammatory stimulus efficiently. Furthermore, low-grade inflammatory infiltration and activation of mast cells in proximity to nerves in the colonic mucosa may also participate in the frequency and severity of perceived abdominal pain in post-infectious and non-specific IBS. Initial evidence suggests the existence of changes in gut microflora, serotonin metabolism and a genetic contribution in IBS pathophysiology. These novel mechanisms may aid a better understanding of the complex pathophysiology of IBS and to develop new therapies.PMID: 15335408


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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

Eric,what do you think about this?Do you think it can solve all the problem?I mean maybe our pacemaker(s) are nuts and create this little inflammation. http://bioinformatics.weizmann.ac.il:3456/...8/b/989/pdf.pdf


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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

Eric,what do you think about this?Do you think it can solve all the problem?I mean maybe our pacemaker(s) are nuts and create this little inflammation. http://bioinformatics.weizmann.ac.il:3456/...8/b/989/pdf.pdf


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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

Flux,just a suggestion,be constructive.It's up to us to judge if Kel testimonials are reals.Most of the members knows that homeopathy is'nt scientific.Maybe Kel can put a scientific link for credibility support.If there is one.


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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

Flux,just a suggestion,be constructive.It's up to us to judge if Kel testimonials are reals.Most of the members knows that homeopathy is'nt scientific.Maybe Kel can put a scientific link for credibility support.If there is one.


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

It took garywest years, his Homoepathic doc also treated his anxiety.Lind C also used other methods.Spasman, the pacemaker needs to be researched more, but its another possiblity in a brain gut axis regulation problem and possible treatment for those failing conventional and complementary treatments also.


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

It took garywest years, his Homoepathic doc also treated his anxiety.Lind C also used other methods.Spasman, the pacemaker needs to be researched more, but its another possiblity in a brain gut axis regulation problem and possible treatment for those failing conventional and complementary treatments also.


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2004)

Kel,i'm curiuos what exactly was your homeopathic treatment for ibs? sulphur? how much and is that what is is called? and how long did you take this?Eric,I really wonder about the 80% efficacy rate with hypnotherapy. what exactly is the rate for reducing bloating with hypnotherapy? or for C? ---are there different percentages of efficacy for different symptoms? i just think that lots of things can cause IBS and certain things like say stress may be linked more to D where as other problems to C and bloating etc. and am curiuos why hypnotherapy wouldn't help each symptoms with equal success (which i'm guessing it doesn't). i do think it masks symptoms to a degree. feel anyone wiht any disease would get better through reconditioning - but that shouldn't say much about disease. i think one of the problems with ibs is that its colon's workings are interlinked with brain so it is hard to separate the two. and while i think mind/body do interract...I think you have to separate the two as well. i'm just highly suspicious about the 80% efficacy rate - Eric is this well documented?eric perhaps cbt would work better for me but i'm still confused as to how that would "work" since i can't effect my symptoms at all and they don['t seem to be stress responsive. can you give an example of how CBT-specific therapists for IBS work? and do you know of any in San Francisco?the Asacol has stopped working/or never was working. i continue to take it though.however I had another BIG accupuncture reaction today. basically where she put the needles i had the intense tightness and achy sensation and then my right hand became EXTREMELY painful all over the muscles in my palm and in the webbing muscle between my pinky and ring finger. it was so intense i thought i was going to have to leave the room and walk around. so she took that needle out and it immidiately abated along with the tightness. my hand now feels a bit arthritic. what could be going on? she says its "channels" but i think this must be her hitting some "nerve". it really doesn't feel like a placebo response since I rarely feel pain and have a high tolerance for pain sensation so wouldn't notice it unless it were INTENSE as it was etc. my stomach is still bad however so its doing nothere there so far. she argued with me at length that accupuncture was not a psychophysiological (placebo) response, but had a scientific basis - but then talked about channels etc. - which she could not explain in scientific terms i'm familiar with. i'm curiuos about the validity of that, if anyone knows.


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2004)

Kel,i'm curiuos what exactly was your homeopathic treatment for ibs? sulphur? how much and is that what is is called? and how long did you take this?Eric,I really wonder about the 80% efficacy rate with hypnotherapy. what exactly is the rate for reducing bloating with hypnotherapy? or for C? ---are there different percentages of efficacy for different symptoms? i just think that lots of things can cause IBS and certain things like say stress may be linked more to D where as other problems to C and bloating etc. and am curiuos why hypnotherapy wouldn't help each symptoms with equal success (which i'm guessing it doesn't). i do think it masks symptoms to a degree. feel anyone wiht any disease would get better through reconditioning - but that shouldn't say much about disease. i think one of the problems with ibs is that its colon's workings are interlinked with brain so it is hard to separate the two. and while i think mind/body do interract...I think you have to separate the two as well. i'm just highly suspicious about the 80% efficacy rate - Eric is this well documented?eric perhaps cbt would work better for me but i'm still confused as to how that would "work" since i can't effect my symptoms at all and they don['t seem to be stress responsive. can you give an example of how CBT-specific therapists for IBS work? and do you know of any in San Francisco?the Asacol has stopped working/or never was working. i continue to take it though.however I had another BIG accupuncture reaction today. basically where she put the needles i had the intense tightness and achy sensation and then my right hand became EXTREMELY painful all over the muscles in my palm and in the webbing muscle between my pinky and ring finger. it was so intense i thought i was going to have to leave the room and walk around. so she took that needle out and it immidiately abated along with the tightness. my hand now feels a bit arthritic. what could be going on? she says its "channels" but i think this must be her hitting some "nerve". it really doesn't feel like a placebo response since I rarely feel pain and have a high tolerance for pain sensation so wouldn't notice it unless it were INTENSE as it was etc. my stomach is still bad however so its doing nothere there so far. she argued with me at length that accupuncture was not a psychophysiological (placebo) response, but had a scientific basis - but then talked about channels etc. - which she could not explain in scientific terms i'm familiar with. i'm curiuos about the validity of that, if anyone knows.


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2004)

talissa,i too am curious to see of your anti-inflammatory method will help


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2004)

talissa,i too am curious to see of your anti-inflammatory method will help


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Chronic anxiety can cause constipation even in normal people.The fight or flight can cause D even in normal people.These things have real effects on IBSers.The succes rate of HT is and this is the second world expert on it and IBS, which has been matched by the first world expert and the staistacal percentages. This is the UNC's hypnotherapist who also does many other IBS research studies."Why Consider Hypnosis Treatment for IBS?by Olafur S. Palsson, Psy.D.Hypnosis is only one of several approaches to treating irritable bowel syndrome and may not be the most suitable option for all patients (click here for discussion of treatment options for IBS). However, hypnosis treatment has some advantages which makes it an attractive option for many IBS sufferers with chronic and severe symptoms:- * It is one of the most successful treatment approaches for chronic IBS. The response rate to treatment is 80% and better in most published studies to date. * - The treatment often helps individuals who have failed to get improvements with other methods (see for example: Whorwell et al., 1984, 1987; Palsson et al., 1997, 2000).- It is a uniquely comfortable form of treatment; relaxing, easy and generally enjoyable.- It utilizes the healing power of the person's own mind, and is generally completely without negative side effects. - The treatment sometimes results in improvement in other symptoms or problems such as migraine or tension headaches, along with the improvement in IBS symptoms.- The beneficial effects of the treatment last long after the end of the course of treatment. According to research, individuals who improve from hypnosis treatment for IBS can generally look forward to years of reduced bowel symptoms. http://www.ibshypnosis.com/whyhypnosis.html There is also a graph on bloating and distension here. http://www.ibshypnosis.com/IBSresearch.html I do not know the exact rate for reducing bloating with hypnotherapy, but suspect its high like other symptoms, HT works on global symptoms its one of the only things they have found so far that does.Hypnotherapy studies are on all varations of IBS and regardless of the cause however. I have researched it to the max also myself.Stress is clearly linked to all IBS, however its not ust stress like we think, your under stress from your bloating and distension for one, its noticiable even, your in distress, which is stress and worry is stress. There is a defintion of stress most people do not understand really."i do think it masks symptoms to a degree"This is not understood either and very complex issues in chronic pain and "masking symptoms" you would have to be in a constant state of trance for that to happen, I feel pain like anyone else does. If I had something else causing pain in my gut like an ulcer, I would know it for sure.it doesn't mask them it changes them psychophysiologically.On the 80 percent its good to be skeptical, but its a fact on studies to date and they have been doing this for twenty years now." mind/body do interract." Majorally and its important not to sperate the two, treat both perhaps, but not seperate them they both work majoally together. Its not a competition here, its the way they both work together.for examplePhobic Anxiety Changes the Function of Brain-Gut Axis in Irritable Bowel Syndrome http://www.psychosomaticmedicine.org/cgi/c...t/full/63/6/959 which by the way is linked to the inflammation in the gut."eric perhaps cbt would work better for me but i'm still confused as to how that would "work" since i can't effect my symptoms at all and they don['t seem to be stress responsive. can you give an example of how CBT-specific therapists for IBS work? and do you know of any in San Francisco?I would have to look in SF, bt as I have said the stress is not what you think it is, or is it even all mental stressors, but they are very imnportant, this however is somewhat down to emotions themselves.an example of CBT for IBS.Barbara Bradley Bolen, Ph.D.bbolen###optonline.netSeptember 5, 2002COGNITIVE BEHAVIORAL THERAPY FOR IRRITABLE BOWEL SYNDROMEThere is an old saying that if you give a child a fish, you feed that child for a day, but if you teach a child to fish, they are fed for a lifetime. In accordance with this old proverb, Cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) is a form of psychotherapy that strives to actively teach people skills and strategies that they can use to help themselves feel better. A considerable amount of research indicates that CBT is effective in helping to reduce the symptoms of Irritable Bowel Syndrome.Many people wonder how psychotherapy can help IBS if IBS is a physical disorder. One of the major triggers that can set off or exacerbate IBS is stress. In addition, IBS is a very stressful disorder to live with. CBT provides an individual with tools for combating stress, reducing the anxiety response and thus calming the GI system.The cognitive therapy part of CBT helps individuals to identify, challenge and replace unhealthy thought patterns. When we are thinking clearly, we are able to deal with the world in a calm, rational manner. However, our thinking often gets distorted, due to our personalities, our past history, our emotional state or lack of information. When thinking gets distorted it can lead to excessive emotional reactions. For an individual with IBS, these thought distortions may lead to an anxiety response that can trigger symptoms. For example, if a person with IBS thinks ï¿½My stomach is rumbling. Uh, oh! I know I am going to be sick. What is I canï¿½t make it to the bathroom? This is terrible!ï¿½, that person is going to experience anxiety and perhaps set off the very symptoms they are afraid of. If instead, the person thinks, ï¿½Just because my stomach is making some noise does not necessarily mean I am going to have symptoms. I will just focus on what I am doing and see what happensï¿½, that person will remain calm and be less likely to stimulate their digestive system.The behavioral aspect of CBT involves skill training. Relaxation techniques, including deep breathing skills and progressive muscle relaxation, help the individual to reduce the physiological symptoms of anxiety. An anxiety reaction can be likened to a home security alarm. Relaxation techniques send the message to the body that there is no emergency and that the alarm can be shut off. CBT for IBS may also include skill training in assertion and anger management, as research has shown that IBS patients often have difficulty in these areas.IBS can wreak havoc on a personï¿½s quality of life. CBT helps IBS sufferers to regain a sense of control over their life. With the skills gained in CBT, one no longer needs to be a passive victim of this disruptive disorder, but can now actively use strategies which are effective in reducing the frequency, intensity and duration of IBS symptoms. Barbara Bradley Bolen, Ph.D.bbolen###optonline.netIt is certainly worth a try and could benefit a person just in general even on a lot of life issues.I am not that fimilar with acupunture really, other then the studies I have seen have not been that encouragiung, this maybe more an individual thing.Something that might help in your case however, might be accupressure points and manipulation for muscle relaxation, maybe more so then accupunture, which maybe contributing to you tensing up.


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Chronic anxiety can cause constipation even in normal people.The fight or flight can cause D even in normal people.These things have real effects on IBSers.The succes rate of HT is and this is the second world expert on it and IBS, which has been matched by the first world expert and the staistacal percentages. This is the UNC's hypnotherapist who also does many other IBS research studies."Why Consider Hypnosis Treatment for IBS?by Olafur S. Palsson, Psy.D.Hypnosis is only one of several approaches to treating irritable bowel syndrome and may not be the most suitable option for all patients (click here for discussion of treatment options for IBS). However, hypnosis treatment has some advantages which makes it an attractive option for many IBS sufferers with chronic and severe symptoms:- * It is one of the most successful treatment approaches for chronic IBS. The response rate to treatment is 80% and better in most published studies to date. * - The treatment often helps individuals who have failed to get improvements with other methods (see for example: Whorwell et al., 1984, 1987; Palsson et al., 1997, 2000).- It is a uniquely comfortable form of treatment; relaxing, easy and generally enjoyable.- It utilizes the healing power of the person's own mind, and is generally completely without negative side effects. - The treatment sometimes results in improvement in other symptoms or problems such as migraine or tension headaches, along with the improvement in IBS symptoms.- The beneficial effects of the treatment last long after the end of the course of treatment. According to research, individuals who improve from hypnosis treatment for IBS can generally look forward to years of reduced bowel symptoms. http://www.ibshypnosis.com/whyhypnosis.html There is also a graph on bloating and distension here. http://www.ibshypnosis.com/IBSresearch.html I do not know the exact rate for reducing bloating with hypnotherapy, but suspect its high like other symptoms, HT works on global symptoms its one of the only things they have found so far that does.Hypnotherapy studies are on all varations of IBS and regardless of the cause however. I have researched it to the max also myself.Stress is clearly linked to all IBS, however its not ust stress like we think, your under stress from your bloating and distension for one, its noticiable even, your in distress, which is stress and worry is stress. There is a defintion of stress most people do not understand really."i do think it masks symptoms to a degree"This is not understood either and very complex issues in chronic pain and "masking symptoms" you would have to be in a constant state of trance for that to happen, I feel pain like anyone else does. If I had something else causing pain in my gut like an ulcer, I would know it for sure.it doesn't mask them it changes them psychophysiologically.On the 80 percent its good to be skeptical, but its a fact on studies to date and they have been doing this for twenty years now." mind/body do interract." Majorally and its important not to sperate the two, treat both perhaps, but not seperate them they both work majoally together. Its not a competition here, its the way they both work together.for examplePhobic Anxiety Changes the Function of Brain-Gut Axis in Irritable Bowel Syndrome http://www.psychosomaticmedicine.org/cgi/c...t/full/63/6/959 which by the way is linked to the inflammation in the gut."eric perhaps cbt would work better for me but i'm still confused as to how that would "work" since i can't effect my symptoms at all and they don['t seem to be stress responsive. can you give an example of how CBT-specific therapists for IBS work? and do you know of any in San Francisco?I would have to look in SF, bt as I have said the stress is not what you think it is, or is it even all mental stressors, but they are very imnportant, this however is somewhat down to emotions themselves.an example of CBT for IBS.Barbara Bradley Bolen, Ph.D.bbolen###optonline.netSeptember 5, 2002COGNITIVE BEHAVIORAL THERAPY FOR IRRITABLE BOWEL SYNDROMEThere is an old saying that if you give a child a fish, you feed that child for a day, but if you teach a child to fish, they are fed for a lifetime. In accordance with this old proverb, Cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) is a form of psychotherapy that strives to actively teach people skills and strategies that they can use to help themselves feel better. A considerable amount of research indicates that CBT is effective in helping to reduce the symptoms of Irritable Bowel Syndrome.Many people wonder how psychotherapy can help IBS if IBS is a physical disorder. One of the major triggers that can set off or exacerbate IBS is stress. In addition, IBS is a very stressful disorder to live with. CBT provides an individual with tools for combating stress, reducing the anxiety response and thus calming the GI system.The cognitive therapy part of CBT helps individuals to identify, challenge and replace unhealthy thought patterns. When we are thinking clearly, we are able to deal with the world in a calm, rational manner. However, our thinking often gets distorted, due to our personalities, our past history, our emotional state or lack of information. When thinking gets distorted it can lead to excessive emotional reactions. For an individual with IBS, these thought distortions may lead to an anxiety response that can trigger symptoms. For example, if a person with IBS thinks ï¿½My stomach is rumbling. Uh, oh! I know I am going to be sick. What is I canï¿½t make it to the bathroom? This is terrible!ï¿½, that person is going to experience anxiety and perhaps set off the very symptoms they are afraid of. If instead, the person thinks, ï¿½Just because my stomach is making some noise does not necessarily mean I am going to have symptoms. I will just focus on what I am doing and see what happensï¿½, that person will remain calm and be less likely to stimulate their digestive system.The behavioral aspect of CBT involves skill training. Relaxation techniques, including deep breathing skills and progressive muscle relaxation, help the individual to reduce the physiological symptoms of anxiety. An anxiety reaction can be likened to a home security alarm. Relaxation techniques send the message to the body that there is no emergency and that the alarm can be shut off. CBT for IBS may also include skill training in assertion and anger management, as research has shown that IBS patients often have difficulty in these areas.IBS can wreak havoc on a personï¿½s quality of life. CBT helps IBS sufferers to regain a sense of control over their life. With the skills gained in CBT, one no longer needs to be a passive victim of this disruptive disorder, but can now actively use strategies which are effective in reducing the frequency, intensity and duration of IBS symptoms. Barbara Bradley Bolen, Ph.D.bbolen###optonline.netIt is certainly worth a try and could benefit a person just in general even on a lot of life issues.I am not that fimilar with acupunture really, other then the studies I have seen have not been that encouragiung, this maybe more an individual thing.Something that might help in your case however, might be accupressure points and manipulation for muscle relaxation, maybe more so then accupunture, which maybe contributing to you tensing up.


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Two articles you should read on HT and IBS.These are senior IBS researchers.Hypnotherapy for Functional Gastrointestinal Disorders By: Peter J. Whorwell, M.D., University Hospital of South Manchester, England http://www.aboutibs.org/Publications/hypnosis.html Hypnosis Treatment of Irritable Bowel Syndrome By: Olafur S. Palsson, Psy.D., Research Associate, Department of Medicine, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill http://www.aboutibs.org/Publications/HypnosisPalsson.html also HT won't work if you fight it and believe it won't work, even though its not a placbo, people are better five years after treatment for one, but there are studies done on it also, its also used to study IBS.Harvard HealthHypnosis: Theory and Application Part I and 2 http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...c;f=11;t=001770 It is also not understood well by the general public for sure and carries some stigmas from TV shows and such and things that do not do it credit for how many uses there are for it in clinical medicine, which is not like stage hypnosis at all, which is more parlor tricks really.


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Two articles you should read on HT and IBS.These are senior IBS researchers.Hypnotherapy for Functional Gastrointestinal Disorders By: Peter J. Whorwell, M.D., University Hospital of South Manchester, England http://www.aboutibs.org/Publications/hypnosis.html Hypnosis Treatment of Irritable Bowel Syndrome By: Olafur S. Palsson, Psy.D., Research Associate, Department of Medicine, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill http://www.aboutibs.org/Publications/HypnosisPalsson.html also HT won't work if you fight it and believe it won't work, even though its not a placbo, people are better five years after treatment for one, but there are studies done on it also, its also used to study IBS.Harvard HealthHypnosis: Theory and Application Part I and 2 http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...c;f=11;t=001770 It is also not understood well by the general public for sure and carries some stigmas from TV shows and such and things that do not do it credit for how many uses there are for it in clinical medicine, which is not like stage hypnosis at all, which is more parlor tricks really.


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2004)

thanks *so* much eric - i will print all this out tomorrow and read tomorrow nite.


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2004)

thanks *so* much eric - i will print all this out tomorrow and read tomorrow nite.


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Your welcome, hope it helps.


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Your welcome, hope it helps.


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2004)

thanks - let me know if I can help you out with anything. ugh...if you need any plant or music advice! if this works i'd consider a lapdance even. lol just joking! ...i really appreciate this, nonetheless


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2004)

thanks - let me know if I can help you out with anything. ugh...if you need any plant or music advice! if this works i'd consider a lapdance even. lol just joking! ...i really appreciate this, nonetheless


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

"It took garywest years, his Homoepathic doc also treated his anxiety.Linda C also used other methods. "Linda C got almost instant results. I will reprint her story. Actually it is on the link I will post below (page 2 or 3 -- not sure which).I will have to reread Garywest's posts to see how long it took for him. It was last year that i read his story, and it could have taken longer than 3 months.Susan,The remedies are specific to each person. Sulphur does not sound like a good match for you. The one that jumps out is LACHESIS. One of several symptoms of lachesis is that the person can not stand anything tight around their body. I also think that lachesis tends to be in an excitable state as opposed to beaten down depressed.Don't hold me to any of this because this whole homeopathy thing bewilders me.At times there seems to be no rhyme or reason to it.==================================I fixed my broken links on the following homeopathy thread. there is quite a bit of hardcore reproduced science proving that ultra-dilute polar solvents are capable of memory and bioactivity. despite this evidence i was not impressed. the only thing that impressed me was my miracle recovery.======================================to flux, if this was placebo then why did i get no IBS relief back in october of 2003 when I started? back in October of 2003 i was relieved of chronic nausea, irritability, toxic/sick feeling that plagued me every day for 6 or 7 years. My remedy was nux vomica and i was NOT told what was given to me. I only reported back to the homeopath what i was relieved of --- and this matches up perfectly with the actions of nux vomica (a strychnine containing nut).=========================================abstacts with broken links have been reprinted. http://www.ibsgroup.org/cgi-local/ubbcgi/u...26&t=002321&p=4 =========================================


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

"It took garywest years, his Homoepathic doc also treated his anxiety.Linda C also used other methods. "Linda C got almost instant results. I will reprint her story. Actually it is on the link I will post below (page 2 or 3 -- not sure which).I will have to reread Garywest's posts to see how long it took for him. It was last year that i read his story, and it could have taken longer than 3 months.Susan,The remedies are specific to each person. Sulphur does not sound like a good match for you. The one that jumps out is LACHESIS. One of several symptoms of lachesis is that the person can not stand anything tight around their body. I also think that lachesis tends to be in an excitable state as opposed to beaten down depressed.Don't hold me to any of this because this whole homeopathy thing bewilders me.At times there seems to be no rhyme or reason to it.==================================I fixed my broken links on the following homeopathy thread. there is quite a bit of hardcore reproduced science proving that ultra-dilute polar solvents are capable of memory and bioactivity. despite this evidence i was not impressed. the only thing that impressed me was my miracle recovery.======================================to flux, if this was placebo then why did i get no IBS relief back in october of 2003 when I started? back in October of 2003 i was relieved of chronic nausea, irritability, toxic/sick feeling that plagued me every day for 6 or 7 years. My remedy was nux vomica and i was NOT told what was given to me. I only reported back to the homeopath what i was relieved of --- and this matches up perfectly with the actions of nux vomica (a strychnine containing nut).=========================================abstacts with broken links have been reprinted. http://www.ibsgroup.org/cgi-local/ubbcgi/u...26&t=002321&p=4 =========================================


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

> quote: Flux,just a suggestion,be constructive.It's up to us to judge if Kel testimonials are reals.Most of the members knows that homeopathy is'nt scientific.Maybe Kel can put a scientific link for credibility support.If there is one.


Spasman,I don't think it is exactly correct to say that there is no science to support it. There is science to support it. However, it will probably take decades for several of these studies to be reproduced a few dozen times -- enough to satisfy most critics.The main argument against it is that it is -- IMPLAUSIBLE. Of course, flight was once considered implausible.there are some studies showing that it is no better than placebo; however, many of these have been chalked up to design error. Not to mention the fact that homeopathy is far from perfect and results are not guaranteed. Persistance and doggedness may be necessary.summaries of the three main studies Kleijnen 1991British Medical Journal. 107 trials. Criteria-based meta-analysis.  77% are positive  The higher the scientific merit of the study, the more likely it is to show homoeopathy as superior to placebo. The evidence presented in this review would probably be sufficient for establishing homoeopathy as a regular treatment for certain conditions.Boissel 1996Report for European Commission. 15 trials. Very strict inclusion criteria. Meta-analysis; data synthesis by combining the significance levels (p-values) for the primary outcomes from each trial.  Combined p value for the 15 trials was highly significant p=0.0002.  ' There is evidence that homeopathic medicine is more effective than placebo' .  Little evidence of publication bias.  Further high quality studies are needed.Linde 1997Lancet. 89 trials. Meta-analysis; data synthesis by combining the odds ratios.  Combined odds ratio 2.45 (95% CI 2.05, 2.93) in favour of homeopathy.  Odds ratio for 26 best quality studies was 1.66.  No evidence of significant publication bias.  The results are not compatible with the hypothesis that the clinical effects of homeopathy are completely due to placebo.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

> quote: Flux,just a suggestion,be constructive.It's up to us to judge if Kel testimonials are reals.Most of the members knows that homeopathy is'nt scientific.Maybe Kel can put a scientific link for credibility support.If there is one.


Spasman,I don't think it is exactly correct to say that there is no science to support it. There is science to support it. However, it will probably take decades for several of these studies to be reproduced a few dozen times -- enough to satisfy most critics.The main argument against it is that it is -- IMPLAUSIBLE. Of course, flight was once considered implausible.there are some studies showing that it is no better than placebo; however, many of these have been chalked up to design error. Not to mention the fact that homeopathy is far from perfect and results are not guaranteed. Persistance and doggedness may be necessary.summaries of the three main studies Kleijnen 1991British Medical Journal. 107 trials. Criteria-based meta-analysis.  77% are positive  The higher the scientific merit of the study, the more likely it is to show homoeopathy as superior to placebo. The evidence presented in this review would probably be sufficient for establishing homoeopathy as a regular treatment for certain conditions.Boissel 1996Report for European Commission. 15 trials. Very strict inclusion criteria. Meta-analysis; data synthesis by combining the significance levels (p-values) for the primary outcomes from each trial.  Combined p value for the 15 trials was highly significant p=0.0002.  ' There is evidence that homeopathic medicine is more effective than placebo' .  Little evidence of publication bias.  Further high quality studies are needed.Linde 1997Lancet. 89 trials. Meta-analysis; data synthesis by combining the odds ratios.  Combined odds ratio 2.45 (95% CI 2.05, 2.93) in favour of homeopathy.  Odds ratio for 26 best quality studies was 1.66.  No evidence of significant publication bias.  The results are not compatible with the hypothesis that the clinical effects of homeopathy are completely due to placebo.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:Maybe Kel can put a scientific link for credibility support.If there is one.


That'll be the day.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:Maybe Kel can put a scientific link for credibility support.If there is one.


That'll be the day.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

HOMŒOPATHIC MATERIA MEDICAby William BOERICKE, M.D.Presented by Mï¿½di-TLACHESIS MUTUSBushmaster or Surucucu(LACHESIS)Mind.--Great loquacity. Amative. Sad in the morning; no desire to mix with the world. Restless and uneasy; does not wish to attend to business; wants to be off somewhere all the time. Jealous (Hyos). Mental labor best performed at night. Euthanasia. Suspicious (Verat; Stram). Female.--Climacteric troubles, palpitation, flashes of heat, hï¿½morrhages, vertex headache, fainting spells; worse, pressure of clothes. Sensation of suffocation and strangulation on lying down, particularly when anything is around throat;Abdomen.--Liver region sensitive, cannot bear anything around waist http://www.homeoint.org/books/boericmm/l.htm


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

HOMŒOPATHIC MATERIA MEDICAby William BOERICKE, M.D.Presented by Mï¿½di-TLACHESIS MUTUSBushmaster or Surucucu(LACHESIS)Mind.--Great loquacity. Amative. Sad in the morning; no desire to mix with the world. Restless and uneasy; does not wish to attend to business; wants to be off somewhere all the time. Jealous (Hyos). Mental labor best performed at night. Euthanasia. Suspicious (Verat; Stram). Female.--Climacteric troubles, palpitation, flashes of heat, hï¿½morrhages, vertex headache, fainting spells; worse, pressure of clothes. Sensation of suffocation and strangulation on lying down, particularly when anything is around throat;Abdomen.--Liver region sensitive, cannot bear anything around waist http://www.homeoint.org/books/boericmm/l.htm


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Your very welcom Joann, if you are thinking about seeing a CBT specialist in SF, I will try to help you out.Garywest, took well over a year kel and if you read his posts carefully, he will also say IBS is a brain gut disorder and that his Homeopathic doc, traeted his anxiety and he got better. Sympathetic patient doctor relatioships can help IBS, just by that also.


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Your very welcom Joann, if you are thinking about seeing a CBT specialist in SF, I will try to help you out.Garywest, took well over a year kel and if you read his posts carefully, he will also say IBS is a brain gut disorder and that his Homeopathic doc, traeted his anxiety and he got better. Sympathetic patient doctor relatioships can help IBS, just by that also.


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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

quote:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Maybe Kel can put a scientific link for credibility support.If there is one.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------That'll be the day.


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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

quote:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Maybe Kel can put a scientific link for credibility support.If there is one.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------That'll be the day.


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## Talissa (Apr 10, 2004)

Eric, why do you keep calling Joan/Susan by the name Joann? (hint--her board name is one syllable, not two)...Well, technically, her bb name is 3 syllables--Joanofarc.But if it were Joannofarc, it'd be 4 syllables.You know what I mean.


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## Talissa (Apr 10, 2004)

Eric, why do you keep calling Joan/Susan by the name Joann? (hint--her board name is one syllable, not two)...Well, technically, her bb name is 3 syllables--Joanofarc.But if it were Joannofarc, it'd be 4 syllables.You know what I mean.


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2004)

Hey Kel,WOW! have you been living with me? thats hilarious - the Lachesis does kinda describe me. I may try it - what the hell.Eric/Talissa,its okay, i don't mind about names, but Eric you can call me Susan, if that is easier.


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2004)

Hey Kel,WOW! have you been living with me? thats hilarious - the Lachesis does kinda describe me. I may try it - what the hell.Eric/Talissa,its okay, i don't mind about names, but Eric you can call me Susan, if that is easier.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

If you do try it buy a 30C Lachesis from a store like Wild Oats so that you can get a credit in case it does not work.take about 10 pills (arbitrary) by mouth -- hold under tongue. take another 15 pills and put them in a water bottle with cap. add about 6 oz or so of water and shake hard for a couple of minutes. drink the water. when it is almost empty (1/2" left) refill with another 6 oz of water --- shake for a couple of minutes. drink it and repeat once more.If you are lucky you will start to aggravate 4, 6, 8 hours later. If you are really lucky you will feel lousy for 1 or 2 days. Look to feel much better by day 3, 4, 5 etcIf nothing happens.... then that explains my post above on why i both love it and hate it.(if it does not work return it.... tell them it killed your dog. trust me they won't argue with you.)


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

If you do try it buy a 30C Lachesis from a store like Wild Oats so that you can get a credit in case it does not work.take about 10 pills (arbitrary) by mouth -- hold under tongue. take another 15 pills and put them in a water bottle with cap. add about 6 oz or so of water and shake hard for a couple of minutes. drink the water. when it is almost empty (1/2" left) refill with another 6 oz of water --- shake for a couple of minutes. drink it and repeat once more.If you are lucky you will start to aggravate 4, 6, 8 hours later. If you are really lucky you will feel lousy for 1 or 2 days. Look to feel much better by day 3, 4, 5 etcIf nothing happens.... then that explains my post above on why i both love it and hate it.(if it does not work return it.... tell them it killed your dog. trust me they won't argue with you.)


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

One other thing. DON'T TAKE ANYMORE AFTER THIS INITIAL DOSING!Put the bottle away. taking more is a sure fire way of disturbing what might be happening.If you do it again wait at least 7 days.also the Boericke Materia Medica was written several decades ago so the language is definitely out of date.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

One other thing. DON'T TAKE ANYMORE AFTER THIS INITIAL DOSING!Put the bottle away. taking more is a sure fire way of disturbing what might be happening.If you do it again wait at least 7 days.also the Boericke Materia Medica was written several decades ago so the language is definitely out of date.


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2004)

thanks kel - yeah it sounds like someone's astrological reading!!but i will try it!


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2004)

thanks kel - yeah it sounds like someone's astrological reading!!but i will try it!


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quoteON'T TAKE ANYMORE AFTER THIS INITIAL DOSING!


Oooh, scary.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quoteON'T TAKE ANYMORE AFTER THIS INITIAL DOSING!


Oooh, scary.


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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

Old couple.


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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

Old couple.


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## Guest (Sep 3, 2004)

oh dear god


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## Guest (Sep 3, 2004)

oh dear god


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## Guest (Sep 3, 2004)

yes indeed spasman! i can feel the chemistry there! poor Kel!


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## Guest (Sep 3, 2004)

yes indeed spasman! i can feel the chemistry there! poor Kel!


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

> quote: Oooh, scary.


Flux,There is a very good reason for this warning. In fact i have an old post from Frostbite (a scientist) that warns about taking too much of a remedy.


> quote: I am opening myself up to criticism and my credibility will probably be questioned but I believe that homeopathy is not placebo. The unnecessary repetition of any homeopathic remedy can be dangerous as can the inappropriate use of any high potency remedy. You must be aware of the term "proving" in homeopathy but have you ever heard of the term "imprinting"? Probably not, I don't expect Homeopaths are going to publicize that homeopathy can permanently poison an individual. So don't believe all the "completely safe" claims you might see on web sites and read in homeopathic books written for the general public. Here are a couple of links to articles written by famous American homeopaths from the early 1900's when homeopathy was at its peak in North America (I apologize but these articles were written in the 1900's by homeopaths and may be difficult to follow). http://www.homeoint.org/books3/kentlect/lect16.htm http://www.simillibus.com/tyler_hownottodoit.html If homeopathy was placebo why would these homeopaths warn of the risks associated with the practice of homeopathy? Of course it could be just the final part of the scam to insure that individuals do not self prescribe and obtain treatment from a homeopath. *I understand James Tyler Kent though his experimentation with homeopathic remedies permanently poisoned his wife and Constantine Hering the "father of American homeopathy" paralyzed his arm with the remedy Lachesis (venom of the bushmaster snake). *


The irony here is that LACHESIS is the remedy that she may be taking.I have no doubt in my mind that if a person repeatedly takes a remedy -- trouble is waiting to happen.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

> quote: Oooh, scary.


Flux,There is a very good reason for this warning. In fact i have an old post from Frostbite (a scientist) that warns about taking too much of a remedy.


> quote: I am opening myself up to criticism and my credibility will probably be questioned but I believe that homeopathy is not placebo. The unnecessary repetition of any homeopathic remedy can be dangerous as can the inappropriate use of any high potency remedy. You must be aware of the term "proving" in homeopathy but have you ever heard of the term "imprinting"? Probably not, I don't expect Homeopaths are going to publicize that homeopathy can permanently poison an individual. So don't believe all the "completely safe" claims you might see on web sites and read in homeopathic books written for the general public. Here are a couple of links to articles written by famous American homeopaths from the early 1900's when homeopathy was at its peak in North America (I apologize but these articles were written in the 1900's by homeopaths and may be difficult to follow). http://www.homeoint.org/books3/kentlect/lect16.htm http://www.simillibus.com/tyler_hownottodoit.html If homeopathy was placebo why would these homeopaths warn of the risks associated with the practice of homeopathy? Of course it could be just the final part of the scam to insure that individuals do not self prescribe and obtain treatment from a homeopath. *I understand James Tyler Kent though his experimentation with homeopathic remedies permanently poisoned his wife and Constantine Hering the "father of American homeopathy" paralyzed his arm with the remedy Lachesis (venom of the bushmaster snake). *


The irony here is that LACHESIS is the remedy that she may be taking.I have no doubt in my mind that if a person repeatedly takes a remedy -- trouble is waiting to happen.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...45;t=000728;p=1 (from Bethy_3)Hi.Anyway, my point here is that I have had IBS since I was 9. It got so bad that I couldn't gain weight, anemic, and had to miss a lot of my schooling. Anyway, when I was hmmmmm...17 or so I went to a homeopath becuase doctors are clueless. This was now 6 years ago now. *I was violently ill afterwards and ended up in the hospital from those damn sugary white pills but all I can say is that to this day I feel 100% better than I did when I was at the age of 9-17years.* I would recommend it for anyone even if you have to spend a night in the ER. So, that's my speech, I hope you all try it at least once. That's all it took for me!Beth


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...45;t=000728;p=1 (from Bethy_3)Hi.Anyway, my point here is that I have had IBS since I was 9. It got so bad that I couldn't gain weight, anemic, and had to miss a lot of my schooling. Anyway, when I was hmmmmm...17 or so I went to a homeopath becuase doctors are clueless. This was now 6 years ago now. *I was violently ill afterwards and ended up in the hospital from those damn sugary white pills but all I can say is that to this day I feel 100% better than I did when I was at the age of 9-17years.* I would recommend it for anyone even if you have to spend a night in the ER. So, that's my speech, I hope you all try it at least once. That's all it took for me!Beth


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...45;t=000728;p=1 (from Davo)I have been seeing a homeopathic Dr for 2 yrs. In England they have to be qualified Doctors before they can be homoepaths. I have powders made up in the hospital's pharmacy, I was in a terrible state when I first went to him, (I had to be refered by my own Dr.) My own Dr said I can't help you, so try A homeopatic Dr. I had to take the powders 1 a day, once a week then once a fornight, then once a month and so-on. I am now on once every six weeks. I am due to see him in April, I expect that will be the last time. Untill I started treatment(it was a last resort)I did not know how ill I felt all the time. He gave me back my life. But I must emphasise! make sure they are qualified medical Doctors as well as homeopaths. Good luck. (from davo)Hi Gary,yes I am convinced I was cured by Homeopathy! I had suffered for years, had all the tests, seen specialists from all branches of the profession, had my gall bladder out, even had heart scans, rushed to hospital with suspected heart atack, when the pain was really bad. My thyroid packed up and no longer works, I had awful palpitations, you name it I had it. I saw a Homeopathic Dr as a last resort. As I said, in England they are recognised as bona fide doctors, and have qualified as medical doctors as well as homeopathy. The treatment takes a long time and it is very gradual, He talked to me for an hour on the first visit, then worked out my medication which I got through the post, (powders wraped in flat papers) I had to take one every day then at the end of the week write him a letter telling him how I felt and how my symptoms were progressing. Then it went on as I discribed in my last letter. I had to go on taking my own medication, homeopathy works with conventional medicine side by side.I started to feel better after about a month, I have never looked back. I cannot believe I felt so ill for so long, after a while you just get used to never feeling well, and begin to accept it as norm.He cut my visits to once a month then two months, three, the next visit will be six months and I think it will be my last. I still get bad days, but it is very occasionally, and never for more than a couple of days. Homeopathy is GREAT, but you must have patience. It takes time. (from our scientist friend --- frostbite)Gary:Only time will tell. If you are feeling better mentally and emotionally that is a good sign. Your postings seem to support these improvements. The physical symptoms are the last to go. I understand an aggravation of these symptoms is possible but remember I am not a Homeopath. I hope the treatment brings about a quick resolve to your physical problems.I am surviving but sometimes think about giving Homeopathy one last try* even after my initial bad experience.*All the best


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...45;t=000728;p=1 (from Davo)I have been seeing a homeopathic Dr for 2 yrs. In England they have to be qualified Doctors before they can be homoepaths. I have powders made up in the hospital's pharmacy, I was in a terrible state when I first went to him, (I had to be refered by my own Dr.) My own Dr said I can't help you, so try A homeopatic Dr. I had to take the powders 1 a day, once a week then once a fornight, then once a month and so-on. I am now on once every six weeks. I am due to see him in April, I expect that will be the last time. Untill I started treatment(it was a last resort)I did not know how ill I felt all the time. He gave me back my life. But I must emphasise! make sure they are qualified medical Doctors as well as homeopaths. Good luck. (from davo)Hi Gary,yes I am convinced I was cured by Homeopathy! I had suffered for years, had all the tests, seen specialists from all branches of the profession, had my gall bladder out, even had heart scans, rushed to hospital with suspected heart atack, when the pain was really bad. My thyroid packed up and no longer works, I had awful palpitations, you name it I had it. I saw a Homeopathic Dr as a last resort. As I said, in England they are recognised as bona fide doctors, and have qualified as medical doctors as well as homeopathy. The treatment takes a long time and it is very gradual, He talked to me for an hour on the first visit, then worked out my medication which I got through the post, (powders wraped in flat papers) I had to take one every day then at the end of the week write him a letter telling him how I felt and how my symptoms were progressing. Then it went on as I discribed in my last letter. I had to go on taking my own medication, homeopathy works with conventional medicine side by side.I started to feel better after about a month, I have never looked back. I cannot believe I felt so ill for so long, after a while you just get used to never feeling well, and begin to accept it as norm.He cut my visits to once a month then two months, three, the next visit will be six months and I think it will be my last. I still get bad days, but it is very occasionally, and never for more than a couple of days. Homeopathy is GREAT, but you must have patience. It takes time. (from our scientist friend --- frostbite)Gary:Only time will tell. If you are feeling better mentally and emotionally that is a good sign. Your postings seem to support these improvements. The physical symptoms are the last to go. I understand an aggravation of these symptoms is possible but remember I am not a Homeopath. I hope the treatment brings about a quick resolve to your physical problems.I am surviving but sometimes think about giving Homeopathy one last try* even after my initial bad experience.*All the best


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

http://www.ibsgroup.org/cgi-local/ubbcgi/u...c;f=51;t=000211 (Cindy_from_Texas -- member #17287 )OK, here's my experience with homeopathics. I've tried several, especially those designed for bloating/gas. Nux Vomica, Lycopodium and Magnesia Phosphorica *did little to nothing for me*--have tried them multiple times, too. *But Carbo-Vegetablis works for me every single time. No kidding. I have also used sulfer very recently for odor with gas and it also was effective.* I have never seen a homeopathic Doctor, but got my advice from a book titled Irritable Bowel Syndrome--a Natural Approach by Rosemary Nicol with a foreword by William John Snape, Jr, MD. According to the book Snape is a leading gastroenterologist who has written in medical journals such as the American Journal of Digestive Disease, Gastroenterology, and the New England Journal of Medicine, and is formerly associated with Harbor-UCLA Medical Center. Ms. Nicol is clearly a Brit, and her book is quite rational. There are only a few pages about homeopathics, but she does give specific advice about what to take for which type of IBS symptoms you are experiencing. If it is a placebo effect I do not know why some homeopathics work for me over and over and over, and others do not. Also, I might mention Gas-X/Simethicone which is also supposed to be good for gas does nothing either--so no placebo effect there either. I'm no scientist, but that's my experience. I use Boirons Brand by the way. (boy, that is some placebo effect --- it chooses to only work for the bottle marked 'carbo veg'.)


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

http://www.ibsgroup.org/cgi-local/ubbcgi/u...c;f=51;t=000211 (Cindy_from_Texas -- member #17287 )OK, here's my experience with homeopathics. I've tried several, especially those designed for bloating/gas. Nux Vomica, Lycopodium and Magnesia Phosphorica *did little to nothing for me*--have tried them multiple times, too. *But Carbo-Vegetablis works for me every single time. No kidding. I have also used sulfer very recently for odor with gas and it also was effective.* I have never seen a homeopathic Doctor, but got my advice from a book titled Irritable Bowel Syndrome--a Natural Approach by Rosemary Nicol with a foreword by William John Snape, Jr, MD. According to the book Snape is a leading gastroenterologist who has written in medical journals such as the American Journal of Digestive Disease, Gastroenterology, and the New England Journal of Medicine, and is formerly associated with Harbor-UCLA Medical Center. Ms. Nicol is clearly a Brit, and her book is quite rational. There are only a few pages about homeopathics, but she does give specific advice about what to take for which type of IBS symptoms you are experiencing. If it is a placebo effect I do not know why some homeopathics work for me over and over and over, and others do not. Also, I might mention Gas-X/Simethicone which is also supposed to be good for gas does nothing either--so no placebo effect there either. I'm no scientist, but that's my experience. I use Boirons Brand by the way. (boy, that is some placebo effect --- it chooses to only work for the bottle marked 'carbo veg'.)


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

If you follow garywest's posts you see that his anxiety, panic, and anger dropped radically in the first 6 weeks or so. after 9 months or so of treatment his bowels were working noticably better. Then he posts several comments throughout 2003 and 2004 claiming that he is feeling better than ever -- bowels are working fine.Homeopathy does indeed work.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

If you follow garywest's posts you see that his anxiety, panic, and anger dropped radically in the first 6 weeks or so. after 9 months or so of treatment his bowels were working noticably better. Then he posts several comments throughout 2003 and 2004 claiming that he is feeling better than ever -- bowels are working fine.Homeopathy does indeed work.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...6718;p=1#000026 From Linda_C -- school teacher


> quote: It's unfortunate that there are people (well, at least one) on this BB who feel they are the all-knowing entity who can dictate what does and does not work. In any case, I do have about 12 years' experience with homeopathy I could comment on. It, in fact, DOES work. It certainly did in my case. I had severe IBS from about age 15, to the point where I could not live a normal life. I had every test, tried every conventional treatment, etc., but had no success. I went to see a homeopath as a "last resort," having absolutely no faith in it. Within 5-7 days I was almost completely symptom-free. Through the years, I have continued to visit my homeopath and she has successfully treated me for a number of acute and chronic conditions, where the "regular" doctors have failed. I don't know a lot about how it works, and to be honest, I don't really care. Unlike others, I don't feel the need to (and I quote) "read scientific and medical texts" to find out what works, nor do I "have access to sources of medical information that are not readily available to others." My beliefs are not based on "the latest medical research and consensus of recognized experts," because, to be honest, the so-called experts have failed me each and every time I have sought help from them. My opinions and advice are based solely on my experience, which are much more relevant to me than any medical texts.If anyone is interested in finding out more about my experience with homeopathy, feel free to ask. If you'd rather poo-poo the whole thing (no pun intended!) then that's your right, but please try not to use your negativity to prevent others from gaining the information they are seeking.Linda





> quote: Hi Guys,Here's a brief overview of my experience with IBS and homeopathy:I developed IBS at the age of 15 after some type of severe gastric bug while on a trip in Florida. It got worse over several months and I was sick pretty much all the time for about 4-5 years (IBS-D). Of course I tried various medications and had lots of tests done, etc., etc.When I was about 19, on a whim, I decided to go to a free lecture on naturopathic medicine. I was intrigued but definitely not convinced that it was "for real." I made an appointment with a homeopath in Toronto. My first appointment was about 2 hours long. She asked me very detailed questions, not only about my symptoms, but also about my characteristics, emotions, etc.... By the end of the appointment, she had basically figured out what remedy she thought would be right for me. At that point, she asked me some very detailed, obscure questions (e.g., "Do you ever crave red licorice?" or "Do you get in-grown toe-nails in your big toe on your right foot?"). I was somewhat blown away because I had been eating tons of red licorice throughout that time period - I was ALWAYS craving it - and I indeed DID have the right-big-toe-ingrown-toenail! There were several examples like this, but I've forgotten them over the years. It turned out that the "remedy picture" that I fit into was Lycopodium. I started taking it at different frequencies and different potencies based on the homeopath's recommendations. My symptoms improved almost immediately and within a week, I was basically symptom-free. I got to the point where I didn't have to take it all the time - only if/when I relapsed. I did that, and found that the relapses got further and further apart, so I had to take the remedy very rarely and, eventually, not at all.I then had several years that were almost IBS-free. I had the odd bad day now and then, but they were very rare and not serious - probably as frequent as anyone who doesn't have IBS. I continued to see the homeopath for other acute illnesses that I would get. One that stands out is when I had strep throat. I woke up one morning and my throat was almost completely closed. I was home from university for the summer (still age 19), so my mom took me to an emergency clinic where I was diagnosed with strep and prescribed heavy-duty antibiotics. I finished the prescription and one day later, the strep came back. I took another complete prescription of antibiotics. Again, a day later, it came back. This happened three times, so I gave up on the antibiotics. Finally, I called my homeopath in Toronto. She told me what remedy I needed. I took it and within 1-2 days the strep was gone and never returned (and never HAS returned since then.)I am now 31 years old. In the past four years or so, I have been experiencing off-and-on IBS symptoms again, though not nearly as bad as it was when I was younger. The homeopath believes that the lycopodium took me to a certain point, but that it must not have been the exact remedy - otherise, the IBS wouldn't return. She is researching other similar/related remedies to try to find the right one. In the meantime, she continues to successfully treat me for other acute illnesses that creep up every now and then (colds, flus, etc.). I actually haven't taken any type of prescription pills for any reason since I started seeing my homeopath 12 years ago. Sorry - looks like I got a little carried away here.. this post is long! Hope this is useful to someone out there!Linda


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...6718;p=1#000026 From Linda_C -- school teacher


> quote: It's unfortunate that there are people (well, at least one) on this BB who feel they are the all-knowing entity who can dictate what does and does not work. In any case, I do have about 12 years' experience with homeopathy I could comment on. It, in fact, DOES work. It certainly did in my case. I had severe IBS from about age 15, to the point where I could not live a normal life. I had every test, tried every conventional treatment, etc., but had no success. I went to see a homeopath as a "last resort," having absolutely no faith in it. Within 5-7 days I was almost completely symptom-free. Through the years, I have continued to visit my homeopath and she has successfully treated me for a number of acute and chronic conditions, where the "regular" doctors have failed. I don't know a lot about how it works, and to be honest, I don't really care. Unlike others, I don't feel the need to (and I quote) "read scientific and medical texts" to find out what works, nor do I "have access to sources of medical information that are not readily available to others." My beliefs are not based on "the latest medical research and consensus of recognized experts," because, to be honest, the so-called experts have failed me each and every time I have sought help from them. My opinions and advice are based solely on my experience, which are much more relevant to me than any medical texts.If anyone is interested in finding out more about my experience with homeopathy, feel free to ask. If you'd rather poo-poo the whole thing (no pun intended!) then that's your right, but please try not to use your negativity to prevent others from gaining the information they are seeking.Linda





> quote: Hi Guys,Here's a brief overview of my experience with IBS and homeopathy:I developed IBS at the age of 15 after some type of severe gastric bug while on a trip in Florida. It got worse over several months and I was sick pretty much all the time for about 4-5 years (IBS-D). Of course I tried various medications and had lots of tests done, etc., etc.When I was about 19, on a whim, I decided to go to a free lecture on naturopathic medicine. I was intrigued but definitely not convinced that it was "for real." I made an appointment with a homeopath in Toronto. My first appointment was about 2 hours long. She asked me very detailed questions, not only about my symptoms, but also about my characteristics, emotions, etc.... By the end of the appointment, she had basically figured out what remedy she thought would be right for me. At that point, she asked me some very detailed, obscure questions (e.g., "Do you ever crave red licorice?" or "Do you get in-grown toe-nails in your big toe on your right foot?"). I was somewhat blown away because I had been eating tons of red licorice throughout that time period - I was ALWAYS craving it - and I indeed DID have the right-big-toe-ingrown-toenail! There were several examples like this, but I've forgotten them over the years. It turned out that the "remedy picture" that I fit into was Lycopodium. I started taking it at different frequencies and different potencies based on the homeopath's recommendations. My symptoms improved almost immediately and within a week, I was basically symptom-free. I got to the point where I didn't have to take it all the time - only if/when I relapsed. I did that, and found that the relapses got further and further apart, so I had to take the remedy very rarely and, eventually, not at all.I then had several years that were almost IBS-free. I had the odd bad day now and then, but they were very rare and not serious - probably as frequent as anyone who doesn't have IBS. I continued to see the homeopath for other acute illnesses that I would get. One that stands out is when I had strep throat. I woke up one morning and my throat was almost completely closed. I was home from university for the summer (still age 19), so my mom took me to an emergency clinic where I was diagnosed with strep and prescribed heavy-duty antibiotics. I finished the prescription and one day later, the strep came back. I took another complete prescription of antibiotics. Again, a day later, it came back. This happened three times, so I gave up on the antibiotics. Finally, I called my homeopath in Toronto. She told me what remedy I needed. I took it and within 1-2 days the strep was gone and never returned (and never HAS returned since then.)I am now 31 years old. In the past four years or so, I have been experiencing off-and-on IBS symptoms again, though not nearly as bad as it was when I was younger. The homeopath believes that the lycopodium took me to a certain point, but that it must not have been the exact remedy - otherise, the IBS wouldn't return. She is researching other similar/related remedies to try to find the right one. In the meantime, she continues to successfully treat me for other acute illnesses that creep up every now and then (colds, flus, etc.). I actually haven't taken any type of prescription pills for any reason since I started seeing my homeopath 12 years ago. Sorry - looks like I got a little carried away here.. this post is long! Hope this is useful to someone out there!Linda


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:warns about taking too much of a remedy


This is your math: 0 > 0.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:warns about taking too much of a remedy


This is your math: 0 > 0.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

Flux,Seems trouble comes your way via this organization.GIRI, due to its international structure, organises workshops yearly throughout the world. It convenes systematically in congresses during each of the International Encounters of Monaco. The aim of the GIRI is to bring together pharmacologists, biologists, physicians, chemists and physicists to communicate, exchange experiences and develop joint research projects; the distinctive feature of the research activities of the group is the study of ultra low dose impulses or very high dilutions, homœopathics included. Although the mechanism of action of the very diluted solutions of active principles on biological systems is an important concern of the GIRI, the major interest of the Group is directed towards the possible medicinal and therapeutic relevance of the very low doses. More than one hundred persons are GIRI members, coming from 20 different countries. http://www.entretiens-internationaux.mc/giri.html In the context of the History of Science, the scientists who challenge the dominant paradigm are ignored or attacked by the scientific mainstream. Modern science is totally devoted to the mechanistic paradigm and biology is totally linked to a physico-chemical reductionism: in this context, scientists are very resistant to new discoveries which like homeopathy or high dilution effects chip away the molecular dogma. But "considering that major changes in Science have never been brought about by isolated findings, but by collective evidence", it is fitting that such a text should introduce this book of "anomalies" at the frontier of science . MB


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

Flux,Seems trouble comes your way via this organization.GIRI, due to its international structure, organises workshops yearly throughout the world. It convenes systematically in congresses during each of the International Encounters of Monaco. The aim of the GIRI is to bring together pharmacologists, biologists, physicians, chemists and physicists to communicate, exchange experiences and develop joint research projects; the distinctive feature of the research activities of the group is the study of ultra low dose impulses or very high dilutions, homœopathics included. Although the mechanism of action of the very diluted solutions of active principles on biological systems is an important concern of the GIRI, the major interest of the Group is directed towards the possible medicinal and therapeutic relevance of the very low doses. More than one hundred persons are GIRI members, coming from 20 different countries. http://www.entretiens-internationaux.mc/giri.html In the context of the History of Science, the scientists who challenge the dominant paradigm are ignored or attacked by the scientific mainstream. Modern science is totally devoted to the mechanistic paradigm and biology is totally linked to a physico-chemical reductionism: in this context, scientists are very resistant to new discoveries which like homeopathy or high dilution effects chip away the molecular dogma. But "considering that major changes in Science have never been brought about by isolated findings, but by collective evidence", it is fitting that such a text should introduce this book of "anomalies" at the frontier of science . MB


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

http://www.entretiens-internationaux.mc/giri.html I have tapped into the world of research supporting the bioactivity of ultra-dilute solutions. The studies come from Romania to China to South Africa. --and they don't stop coming.Get ready people for a new paradigm.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

http://www.entretiens-internationaux.mc/giri.html I have tapped into the world of research supporting the bioactivity of ultra-dilute solutions. The studies come from Romania to China to South Africa. --and they don't stop coming.Get ready people for a new paradigm.


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## roger (Mar 26, 2003)

If this stuff has been around for thousands of years and had its heydey in this country in the early part of the 20th century, shouldn't we be getting ready for an *old* paradigm?


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## roger (Mar 26, 2003)

If this stuff has been around for thousands of years and had its heydey in this country in the early part of the 20th century, shouldn't we be getting ready for an *old* paradigm?


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

Yeah, we ought to look for it in a


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

Yeah, we ought to look for it in a


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99991532 This study gives undeniable proof that polar solvents (water, ammonia, etc) possess a special property that was completely unknown just a few years ago. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...t_uids=15004445 This shows that once the solute (from the Korean study above) has disappeared the process that was started will continue. http://www.vhan.nl/documents/Rey.thermoluminescence.pdf This experiment is the definitive proof that polar solvents possess a memory of some type. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...t_uids=15105967 --and this study -----which has been reproduced over and over and over------ shows that memory water has bioactive properties.=========================================.We are dealing with research that has been published in refereed journals by bona fide, highly respected researchers.JRKatz - are you still rolling on the floor laughing your *** off like you claimed a few months ago?========================================.For additional studies from credible research teams around the world click on the following link. http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...26;t=002321;p=4


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99991532 This study gives undeniable proof that polar solvents (water, ammonia, etc) possess a special property that was completely unknown just a few years ago. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...t_uids=15004445 This shows that once the solute (from the Korean study above) has disappeared the process that was started will continue. http://www.vhan.nl/documents/Rey.thermoluminescence.pdf This experiment is the definitive proof that polar solvents possess a memory of some type. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...t_uids=15105967 --and this study -----which has been reproduced over and over and over------ shows that memory water has bioactive properties.=========================================.We are dealing with research that has been published in refereed journals by bona fide, highly respected researchers.JRKatz - are you still rolling on the floor laughing your *** off like you claimed a few months ago?========================================.For additional studies from credible research teams around the world click on the following link. http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...26;t=002321;p=4


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)




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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)




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## Guest (Sep 5, 2004)

first article is really interesting but correct me if i'm wrong .... aren't they saying that when you dilute something you get bunches of that solute in places in the solution, so technically the solution isn't dilute so if this were to explain how homeopathy worked it would be the opposite of how homeopaths have thought it worked b/c in fact the patient is getting some of the medicine, maybe a large amount, as opposed to "there is no molecule there, just the memory of the water". and wouldn't that account for the fact that some get sick while taking homeopathic remedies? and also account for fact that you get varying effects - sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. so its totally haphazard depending on if you actually get a molecule or so of the say arsenic?the 2nd study didn't impress me much, 3rd seemed unrelated to homeopathy and 4th didn't seem too conclusive etc.


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## Guest (Sep 5, 2004)

first article is really interesting but correct me if i'm wrong .... aren't they saying that when you dilute something you get bunches of that solute in places in the solution, so technically the solution isn't dilute so if this were to explain how homeopathy worked it would be the opposite of how homeopaths have thought it worked b/c in fact the patient is getting some of the medicine, maybe a large amount, as opposed to "there is no molecule there, just the memory of the water". and wouldn't that account for the fact that some get sick while taking homeopathic remedies? and also account for fact that you get varying effects - sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. so its totally haphazard depending on if you actually get a molecule or so of the say arsenic?the 2nd study didn't impress me much, 3rd seemed unrelated to homeopathy and 4th didn't seem too conclusive etc.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

The first link would lead a person to believe just as you have stated. However, what this groundbreaking discovery yields is an extremely important clue as to what might be happening after all traces of the molecules have disappeared.I.E., the key to the whole thing is that they have discovered that the water (or the alcohol or the ammonia or any polar liquid) --due to some properties related to the hydrogen bonds-- forms some type of special arrangement. --and this special arrangement remains intact despite brownian motion.The water (or alcohol) remembers what the original solution contained.This is why the 3rd study is so important. This research will bring the house down on all those who try to claim that once the molcules are gone then it is no longer active.Dr Mercola explains the significance of the Dr Louis Rey Thermoluminescence experiment There is a certain paradigm in our society that results from our dependency on "pills" or "substances" to bring about some effect. People think that there has to be molecules for there to be activity. This is not true. Hence, all the studies i have published that show biological activity with solutions that have had the solute diluted out of existance.The reason they still work is because there is some essence that remains whether this is soley due to hydrogen bonds or some other mechanism.==============================================all these studies do is show that chemistry is not as we used to know it. they do not prove that homeopathy cures illness. --but at least it clears away some major hurdles and slaps people like flux across the face when they deny the existance of memory water.I think of it as a real wake up call, but still think it will take another decade or so before all of science is fully on board. Very few took Einstein serious for at least 10 years despite the fact that he had the math all worked out.Science moves slow.============================================the hardest thing to comprehend about homeopathy is the concept that the immune system is capable of "picking up" this "signal".If people doubt this part of it i can fully understand because i was once extremely doubtful. So doubtful that during my debate of a homeopath last year i all but called her a KOOK.I have evidence that the immune system picks up the homeopathic signal just fine (well almost just fine.) Many factors play a role such as sensitivity.Some of that evidence can be inferred from the basophil experiments where the significance of P is less than .0001 (and this is based on 3,700 + separate experiments on the basophils.)P < .0001 is highly significant especailly when this study has been reproduced over and over.All I know is that I finally understand why so many 10's of thousands of French and German doctors use this healing method. --and why India and Pakistan have hundreds of Medical schools where the students spend 4 and 5 years studying it.In America it is about the money and the lure of a quick fix with nasal steroids such as Flonase and so forth.Homeopathy can take time. This is the major drawback to it. It took garywest over 10 months to achieve his cure. However, Linda C's homeopath nailed the correct remedy on the first shot. Mine got it on the 3rd try which is why i had to wait over 4 months.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

The first link would lead a person to believe just as you have stated. However, what this groundbreaking discovery yields is an extremely important clue as to what might be happening after all traces of the molecules have disappeared.I.E., the key to the whole thing is that they have discovered that the water (or the alcohol or the ammonia or any polar liquid) --due to some properties related to the hydrogen bonds-- forms some type of special arrangement. --and this special arrangement remains intact despite brownian motion.The water (or alcohol) remembers what the original solution contained.This is why the 3rd study is so important. This research will bring the house down on all those who try to claim that once the molcules are gone then it is no longer active.Dr Mercola explains the significance of the Dr Louis Rey Thermoluminescence experiment There is a certain paradigm in our society that results from our dependency on "pills" or "substances" to bring about some effect. People think that there has to be molecules for there to be activity. This is not true. Hence, all the studies i have published that show biological activity with solutions that have had the solute diluted out of existance.The reason they still work is because there is some essence that remains whether this is soley due to hydrogen bonds or some other mechanism.==============================================all these studies do is show that chemistry is not as we used to know it. they do not prove that homeopathy cures illness. --but at least it clears away some major hurdles and slaps people like flux across the face when they deny the existance of memory water.I think of it as a real wake up call, but still think it will take another decade or so before all of science is fully on board. Very few took Einstein serious for at least 10 years despite the fact that he had the math all worked out.Science moves slow.============================================the hardest thing to comprehend about homeopathy is the concept that the immune system is capable of "picking up" this "signal".If people doubt this part of it i can fully understand because i was once extremely doubtful. So doubtful that during my debate of a homeopath last year i all but called her a KOOK.I have evidence that the immune system picks up the homeopathic signal just fine (well almost just fine.) Many factors play a role such as sensitivity.Some of that evidence can be inferred from the basophil experiments where the significance of P is less than .0001 (and this is based on 3,700 + separate experiments on the basophils.)P < .0001 is highly significant especailly when this study has been reproduced over and over.All I know is that I finally understand why so many 10's of thousands of French and German doctors use this healing method. --and why India and Pakistan have hundreds of Medical schools where the students spend 4 and 5 years studying it.In America it is about the money and the lure of a quick fix with nasal steroids such as Flonase and so forth.Homeopathy can take time. This is the major drawback to it. It took garywest over 10 months to achieve his cure. However, Linda C's homeopath nailed the correct remedy on the first shot. Mine got it on the 3rd try which is why i had to wait over 4 months.


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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

Kel,the dilution needs to be limited to about one drop in a 1 liter or all this is unbeleivible.Also,i don't understand when they said "cc".What does it mean?IBSers are so sensitive(especially me) then maybe dulution IS the solution.







Flux do you see a quote?


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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

Kel,the dilution needs to be limited to about one drop in a 1 liter or all this is unbeleivible.Also,i don't understand when they said "cc".What does it mean?IBSers are so sensitive(especially me) then maybe dulution IS the solution.







Flux do you see a quote?


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Homeopathy would suggest the more dilute the medication the more powerful it is.Most of the dilutions are done until none of the originaly material exists...so you only have to worry about the power of the "memory water" to be sensitive to.K.


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Homeopathy would suggest the more dilute the medication the more powerful it is.Most of the dilutions are done until none of the originaly material exists...so you only have to worry about the power of the "memory water" to be sensitive to.K.


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

PS...it is dilutions of things that CAUSE the symptoms you have.


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

PS...it is dilutions of things that CAUSE the symptoms you have.


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

On a more serious note.A lot of times medication doses (the regular ones not homeopathic ones) are set to make sure you get a response in the majority of people. Therefore there are usually some that the doses are too strong for.If you tend to be sensitive to things cutting doses in half may be helpful. There is a book that detailed all the known reduced dosages for things...but a fair number of people have to do that sort of thing.K.


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

On a more serious note.A lot of times medication doses (the regular ones not homeopathic ones) are set to make sure you get a response in the majority of people. Therefore there are usually some that the doses are too strong for.If you tend to be sensitive to things cutting doses in half may be helpful. There is a book that detailed all the known reduced dosages for things...but a fair number of people have to do that sort of thing.K.


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## roger (Mar 26, 2003)

> quote: JRKatz ï¿½ are you still rolling on the floor laughing your *** off like you claimed a few months ago?


Sorry. I never made this claim. I remember commenting about how funny the "floating ball" experiment was that you posted. And when you backed some idiot doctor that denied the existence if AIDS by injecting himself with it on TV in Spain, that was pretty funny, too. Or the time you likened a potential cure to the force in Star Wars -- that was worth a chuckle.I sincerely think that all of your posts, kel, are very high in entertainment value but have little value for anything else.


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## roger (Mar 26, 2003)

> quote: JRKatz ï¿½ are you still rolling on the floor laughing your *** off like you claimed a few months ago?


Sorry. I never made this claim. I remember commenting about how funny the "floating ball" experiment was that you posted. And when you backed some idiot doctor that denied the existence if AIDS by injecting himself with it on TV in Spain, that was pretty funny, too. Or the time you likened a potential cure to the force in Star Wars -- that was worth a chuckle.I sincerely think that all of your posts, kel, are very high in entertainment value but have little value for anything else.


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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

BTW Kel


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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

BTW Kel


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:are very high in entertainment value but have little value for anything else.


Yeah, it's even better than this


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:are very high in entertainment value but have little value for anything else.


Yeah, it's even better than this


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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)




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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)




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## Jhouston (Nov 9, 2003)

What is it goes like this.....patterns, the universe of patterns. put a substance in pure water then dilute to no substance that can be detected by our means of detection. then the fingerprint on/in the molicule of water has a pattern of the original substance and that substance is in the body so it draws it to the pattern...lock and key sort of. I like my explanation. how about you guys. Joann


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## Jhouston (Nov 9, 2003)

What is it goes like this.....patterns, the universe of patterns. put a substance in pure water then dilute to no substance that can be detected by our means of detection. then the fingerprint on/in the molicule of water has a pattern of the original substance and that substance is in the body so it draws it to the pattern...lock and key sort of. I like my explanation. how about you guys. Joann


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## Guest (Sep 5, 2004)

i think its mean to make fun of people this way. just b/c someone believes in something you don't doesn't make them a moron. if you think its stupid then you think its stupid. why do you need to go further? i thought the first experiment was interesting but i don't see many commenting on that. furthermore, who has gotten better besides kel...not many. i'm still open to what she has to say, even if i don't agree with all or even most of it.


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## Guest (Sep 5, 2004)

i think its mean to make fun of people this way. just b/c someone believes in something you don't doesn't make them a moron. if you think its stupid then you think its stupid. why do you need to go further? i thought the first experiment was interesting but i don't see many commenting on that. furthermore, who has gotten better besides kel...not many. i'm still open to what she has to say, even if i don't agree with all or even most of it.


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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

Kel,i hope you enjoy my head massage.







If homeopathy helps you,we are interested!


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## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

Kel,i hope you enjoy my head massage.







If homeopathy helps you,we are interested!


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

jr katz,The fact is that I am free of this curse, are you?I have posted credible science that supports ultra-dilute solutions and bioactivity. You can choose to ignore this research or to assume that all of it is the byproduct of some massive conspiracy. Some people only feel secure when they cling tightly to their existing belief system -- so be it.The doctor who injected himself with the AIDS virus -- i referred to it as interesting, you referred to it as stupid. I still think of it as interesting.The 'star wars' thing came from a really interesting book. You should read it some time. http://www.wddty.co.uk/thefield/noflash/about_book.asp _ The Field has been called 'a book that could change the world forever'The Field tells the story of a group of frontier scientists who discovered that the Zero Point Field - an ocean of subatomic vibrations in the space between things - connects everything in the universe, much like the Force in Star Wars.The Field offers a radically new view of the way our world and our bodies work. The human mind and body are not distinct and separate from their environment, but a packet of pulsating energy constantly interacting with this vast energy sea.The Field creates a picture of an interconnected universe and a new scientific theory which makes sense of 'supernatural 'phenomena. Above all, The Field is a book of hope and inspiration. _The fact is that the zero point field does indeed exist, and it holds clues to many of life's mysterious phenomena.Lastly, I guarantee that science will continue to prove that there is something going on with respect to memory water. I GUARANTEE that I will have the last laugh on that matter. Let's just hope it happens before you are wearing your Depends, pushing your walker.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

jr katz,The fact is that I am free of this curse, are you?I have posted credible science that supports ultra-dilute solutions and bioactivity. You can choose to ignore this research or to assume that all of it is the byproduct of some massive conspiracy. Some people only feel secure when they cling tightly to their existing belief system -- so be it.The doctor who injected himself with the AIDS virus -- i referred to it as interesting, you referred to it as stupid. I still think of it as interesting.The 'star wars' thing came from a really interesting book. You should read it some time. http://www.wddty.co.uk/thefield/noflash/about_book.asp _ The Field has been called 'a book that could change the world forever'The Field tells the story of a group of frontier scientists who discovered that the Zero Point Field - an ocean of subatomic vibrations in the space between things - connects everything in the universe, much like the Force in Star Wars.The Field offers a radically new view of the way our world and our bodies work. The human mind and body are not distinct and separate from their environment, but a packet of pulsating energy constantly interacting with this vast energy sea.The Field creates a picture of an interconnected universe and a new scientific theory which makes sense of 'supernatural 'phenomena. Above all, The Field is a book of hope and inspiration. _The fact is that the zero point field does indeed exist, and it holds clues to many of life's mysterious phenomena.Lastly, I guarantee that science will continue to prove that there is something going on with respect to memory water. I GUARANTEE that I will have the last laugh on that matter. Let's just hope it happens before you are wearing your Depends, pushing your walker.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote: who has gotten better besides kel...not many


Could it be they have a real medical problem?


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote: who has gotten better besides kel...not many


Could it be they have a real medical problem?


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## roger (Mar 26, 2003)

Kel:There is absolutely no need to justify your posts to me. On the contrary, I love to read them. They are filled with interesting items and over the top claims that generally cheer me up and give me a good laugh. It makes my IBS symptoms feel a little better. Isn't that why we're here?


> quote: The fact is that I am free of this curse, are you?


This is no more fact than anything else you post. It is a claim that you make but I don't know you, except from your posts here and they, for the most part, lack credibility.


> quote: You can choose to ignore this research or to assume that all of it is the byproduct of some massive conspiracy.


Are these my only two choices?


> quote: Some people only feel secure when they cling tightly to their existing belief system -- so be it.


I agree with this statement but what relevance does it have to this discussion?


> quote: The doctor who injected himself with the AIDS virus -- i referred to it as interesting, you referred to it as stupid. I still think of it as interesting.


Well, I'm pretty sure it is about as stupid as stupid gets.


> quote: Above all, The Field is a book of hope and inspiration.


_May the force be with you. _


> quote: Lastly, I guarantee that science will continue to prove that there is something going on with respect to memory water.


After all, it is the number one choice for quenching thirst.


> quote: Let's just hope it happens before you are wearing your Depends, pushing your walker.


tsk-tsk. One last thing. Just because you believe that: _similia similibus curentur _ It may still very well be that: _Post hoc non est propter hoc. _It just shows that _Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur. _ Please keep posting. I really enjoy your point of view even though I diagree with it.


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## roger (Mar 26, 2003)

Kel:There is absolutely no need to justify your posts to me. On the contrary, I love to read them. They are filled with interesting items and over the top claims that generally cheer me up and give me a good laugh. It makes my IBS symptoms feel a little better. Isn't that why we're here?


> quote: The fact is that I am free of this curse, are you?


This is no more fact than anything else you post. It is a claim that you make but I don't know you, except from your posts here and they, for the most part, lack credibility.


> quote: You can choose to ignore this research or to assume that all of it is the byproduct of some massive conspiracy.


Are these my only two choices?


> quote: Some people only feel secure when they cling tightly to their existing belief system -- so be it.


I agree with this statement but what relevance does it have to this discussion?


> quote: The doctor who injected himself with the AIDS virus -- i referred to it as interesting, you referred to it as stupid. I still think of it as interesting.


Well, I'm pretty sure it is about as stupid as stupid gets.


> quote: Above all, The Field is a book of hope and inspiration.


_May the force be with you. _


> quote: Lastly, I guarantee that science will continue to prove that there is something going on with respect to memory water.


After all, it is the number one choice for quenching thirst.


> quote: Let's just hope it happens before you are wearing your Depends, pushing your walker.


tsk-tsk. One last thing. Just because you believe that: _similia similibus curentur _ It may still very well be that: _Post hoc non est propter hoc. _It just shows that _Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur. _ Please keep posting. I really enjoy your point of view even though I diagree with it.


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## Jhouston (Nov 9, 2003)

Wow, I just cannot believe Kel brings out the devil in some people! I hope it gives relief to all these ANGRY people. HT would surely help with that. lol Kel speaks he mind and gets sooo much resistance sounds like a song. Joann


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## Jhouston (Nov 9, 2003)

Wow, I just cannot believe Kel brings out the devil in some people! I hope it gives relief to all these ANGRY people. HT would surely help with that. lol Kel speaks he mind and gets sooo much resistance sounds like a song. Joann


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## Guest (Sep 6, 2004)

it would be nice if people could weed out what they think is 'whack science' on their own. as long as he's not selling anything then i'm happy to hear his opinions. flux i've never heard you discuss your "real" medical problem either.


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## Guest (Sep 6, 2004)

it would be nice if people could weed out what they think is 'whack science' on their own. as long as he's not selling anything then i'm happy to hear his opinions. flux i've never heard you discuss your "real" medical problem either.


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

============================================2004 study on BASOPHILSFull paper ----- HTML version --- 2004 http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:wZ6tV...araj+ives&hl=en Full paper ---- PDF version -- 2004 http://www.amhmg.org/Histamin2004.pdf Abstract --- 2004 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...t_uids=15105967 Inflamm Res. 2004 Apr;53(5):181-8. Epub 2004 Apr 21. Related Articles, Links ========================1999 paper PDF version --- 1999 http://www.homeopathy-israel.co.il/Ennis1.pdf HTML version --- 1999 http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:qPWWS...nd+Belon+&hl=en The biological action of ultra high dilutions is controversial [1, 2]. Inhibition of anti-IgE induced basophil degranulation by successive histamine dilutions is of interest, as it studies a chemically defined compound (histamine) which exerts a negative feed back effect via the histamine H 2 receptor. The biological activity is measured using the human basophil degranulation test, which is relatively simple to perform and does not require specialised equipment. Inhibition of baso====================================The newer research includes a series of studies conducted in four highly respected laboratories in Europe (Italy, Netherlands, Belgium, Scotland). A total of 3,764 measurements were taken, and significant biological effects were found from highly diluted doses of histamine. *Specifically, doses of histamine that were diluted 1:100 15 to 19 times were found to have substantially significant effects on inhibiting degranulation of basophils (p<0.0001). *==================================== http://www.newscientist.com/misc/popup_ns....id=ns99993817F1 http://www.vhan.nl/documents/Rey.thermoluminescence.pdf http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:F4wG_...+sodium+chlorid e+&hl=en[/URL]Abstract Ultra-high dilutions of lithium chloride and sodium chloride (10 −30 g cm −3 ) have been irradiated by X-rays and gamma-rays at 77 K, then progressively rewarmed to room temperature. During that phase, their thermoluminescence has been studied and it was found that, *despite their dilution beyond the Avogadro number, the emitted light was specific of the original salts dissolved initially. *====================================== http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...t_uids=11737881 CONCLUSIONS: Both Cad Sulph-30 and 200 were able to combat cadmium induced genotoxic effects in mice and that combined pre- and post-feeding mode of administration was found to be most effective in reducing the genotoxic effect of CdCl2 followed by the post-feeding mode.======================================= http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...5&dopt=Abstract Time related neutralization of two doses acetyl salicylic acid.Aguejouf O, Malfatti E, Belon P, Doutremepuich C.Laboratoire d'Hematologie, Faculte de Pharmacie, 146, Rue Leo-Saignat 33 076 Bordeaux Cedex, France.======================================= http://else.hebis.de/cgi-bin/sciserv.pl?co...=307_neocigcrcn Neurotoxicology Vol: 23, Issue: 3, September, 2002 Non-Linear Effects of Cycloheximide in Glutamate-Treated Cultured Rat Cerebellar Neurons Authors: Marotta, Dianea; Marini, Annb; Banaudha, Krishnab; Maharaj, Susanc; Ives, John; Morrissette, Craig R.d; Jonas, Wayne B.a. Samueli Institute for Informational Biology, Program on Neuroprotection and Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences, Bethesda, MD 20814, USAb. Department of Neurology and Neuroscience, Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences, Bethesda, MD 20814, USAc. Department of Environmental and Toxicologic Pathology, Armed Forces Institute of Pathology, Washington, DC 20306, USAd. Department of Statistics, Walter Reed Army Institute of Research, Silver Spring, MD 20910, USA ====================================== http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...t_uids=21077265 : Neuroreport. 2001 Feb 12,;12(2):335-9. Related Articles, Links Neuroprotection from glutamate toxicity with ultra-low dose glutamate.Lin Y, Tortella F.Department of Family Medicine, Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences, Bethesda, MD 20814, USA.======================================= http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...t_uids=15004445 [Article in German]Kratky KW.Institut fur Experimentalphysik der Universitat Wien, Vienna, Austria. karl.kratzky###univie.ac.at======================================== http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...t_uids=15287434 Permanent physico-chemical properties of extremely diluted aqueous solutions of homeopathic medicines.Elia V, Baiano S, Duro I, Napoli E, Niccoli M, Nonatelli L.Department of Chemistry, University Federico II of Naples, Complesso, Universitario di Monte S. Angelo, via Cintia 80126, Naples, Italy. elia###chemistry.unina.it==========================================Biologische Medizin/Heft 1/February 2004Professor Karen Nieber, head of the institute for pharmacy at Leipzig University, set about proving that homeopathy does not work and at the most can be explained by the so-called placebo effect. It was whilst looking for a test arrangement which totally excluded any placebo effect that she came up with the following idea: she placed a rat intestines in a nutrient solution and fixed it using organic threads to a sensor in order to measure the reduction of the intestines through contraction. She then added a stimulant to the nutrient solution, which caused a strong contraction of the rat intestines.Professor Karen Nieber, as a pharmacologist, expected that the treatment with a homeopathic agent with a potenz above C12 would have no effect against the enterospasms, since there are no more active agents present above this potenz. In Leipzig they then added Belladonna D90 to the nutrient solution with the rat intestines cramped through the stimulant they had added and lo and behold, the enterospasms ceased immediately, the measuring device registered the relaxation of the intestines.=====================================The research proves that homeopathic dilutions of Belladonna do have an influence on the motility of the gastrointestinal system. Influence is apparent in ACh- and SP-induced contractions. Contractions triggered by other kinds of signals (histamine on H1-receptors, K+-depolarisation) are not influenced by homeopathic Belladonna. This tells us, that Belladonna apparently does not have effect on the smooth muscle itself, but on the nerval mechanisms of communication.The effect of the high potencies of Belladonna cannot be due to the effects of the material substance of Belladonna. It is possible, that by the processes of homeopathic potentization, structure and dynamics of the liquid vehicle of the medicine are modified leading to a physico-chemiclal influence on mechanisms of communication. Biologische Medizin/Heft 1/February 2004======================================== http://www.biomedcentral.com/1472-6882/3/7 Ameliorating effect of microdoses of a potentized homeopathic drug, Arsenicum Album, on arsenic-induced toxicity in mice=================================== http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99991532 Bizarre chemical discovery gives homeopathic hint 19:00 07 November 01It is a chance discovery so unexpected it defies belief and threatens to reignite debate about whether there is a scientific basis for thinking homeopathic medicines really work.A team in South Korea has discovered a whole new dimension to just about the simplest chemical reaction in the book - what happens when you dissolve a substance in water and then add more water. Chemist Jan Enberts of the University of Groningen in the Netherlands is more cautious. "It's still a totally open question," he says. "To say the phenomenon has biological significance is pure speculation." But he has no doubt Samal and Geckeler have discovered something new. * "It's surprising and worrying,"* he says.======================================= http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...3&dopt=Abstract ================================Kleijnen 1991British Medical Journal. 107 trials. Criteria-based meta-analysis.  77% are positive  The higher the scientific merit of the study, the more likely it is to show homoeopathy as superior to placebo. The evidence presented in this review would probably be sufficient for establishing homoeopathy as a regular treatment for certain conditions.Boissel 1996Report for European Commission. 15 trials. Very strict inclusion criteria. Meta-analysis; data synthesis by combining the significance levels (p-values) for the primary outcomes from each trial.  Combined p value for the 15 trials was highly significant p=0.0002.  ' There is evidence that homeopathic medicine is more effective than placebo' .  Little evidence of publication bias.  Further high quality studies are needed.Linde 1997Lancet. 89 trials. Meta-analysis; data synthesis by combining the odds ratios.  Combined odds ratio 2.45 (95% CI 2.05, 2.93) in favour of homeopathy.  Odds ratio for 26 best quality studies was 1.66.  No evidence of significant publication bias.  The results are not compatible with the hypothesis that the clinical effects of homeopathy are completely due to placebo. ====================================== http://www.abc.net.au/dimensions/health/tr...pts/s370216.htm AMA (Australian Medical Association) calls for an "open mind" on homoeopathy AMA calls for an "open mind" on homeopathySome medical groups have found it difficult to accept evidence of homoeopathy's effectiveness because it appears to counter the current understanding of how drugs work. Many homoeopathic medicines are so dilute that no single molecule is left in the solution." My view is that the evidence should speak for itself ," says Dr Roberta Chow, a member of the Federal AMA's Advisory Committee on Complementary Medicine. "There have been other studies like this and if the BMJ is prepared to look at it perhaps we should be more open minded about it." Dr Chow also points to evidence involving the imprinting of water molecules that suggests a possible mechanism for how homoeopathy might work in the absence of molecules left in solution. Dr Chow says she is disappointed that there is a lack of official support for doctor training in complementary medicine at a time when it is so widely used in the community."For doctors to be ignorant of such things, we are not giving our patients the best management available, the best advice we can." Anna Salleh - ABC Science Online======================================In France 18 000 (32%) of all general practitioners, 700 veterinarians and 2 000 dentists (5%) prescribe homeopathic medicines to their patients. ======================================Use of homeopathy by physicians in Europe • 40% (18,000) of French M.D.s have treated 40% of the French public (Compl Med Research, May 1990, 4(2)4-8.) • 40 % of Dutch • 37% of British and 42% of family physicians refer to homeopaths (BMJ, 292, June 7,1986, 1498- 1500) • 20% of German • 20% of Scottish physicians have had training in homeopath======================================= http://www.entretiens-internationaux.mc/cambar.htm ConclusionThe presentation of the results obtained in our laboratory for more than 12 years has been divided into two chronological and methodological parts, considering previous in vivo and recent in vitro experiments.We have shown, in vivo in rodents, that high dilutions of mercury can significantly reduce the death rate induced by toxic doses of the same metal. Thus, the death rate of mice intoxicated with high doses of mercury was markedly reduced by a 7 day pretreatment with 10-30 M concentrations of that metal. For example, the death rate following a single injection of 5 mg/kg HgCl2 was 73.4% in control, 50% for those pretreated with 10-18 M and only 26.7% for those pretreated with 10-30 M.We found the same profile of response with our in vitro model in which 10-30 and 10-40 M dilutions provided a fair protection against cadmium induced cytotoxicity in renal tubular cell cultures. Similar results have recently been described for high dilutions of thymulin (Bastide et al., 1987), bursin (Youbicier-Simo et al.., 1993) and silica (Oberbaum et al.., 1992).======================================. http://www.entretiens-internationaux.mc/endler.htm Recent physics research has revealed that water dipoles may develop phase coherent oscillations through radiation coupling (del Giudice et al., 1988; del Giudice, 1994). It is proposed that these could be modulated as a time-ordered pattern of signals (Endler and Schulte, 1994) and induce the coherent wave propagation (electron propagation) in metals (Endler and Schulte, 1994). A further theory suggests that the phase coherent oscillations may originate information pattern formation through isotopicity effects in high dilutions (Endler and Schulte, 1994). The theoretical physical aspect of the experiments A - D referenced here has yet to be evaluated in order to test and develop a theory on bio-information storage and transfer in 'homoeopathically' prepared dilutions.======================================. http://www.entretiens-internationaux.mc/cristun.htm 3.3. THE EFFECT OF BELLADONNA (







DILUTIONS ACCORDING TO THE IDENTITY PRINCIPLE ("AEQUALIA AEQUALIBUS CURENTUR") USED IN ISOPATHYThe N solutions of B had no curative effect, according to the identity principle, on the relaxation induced by the 1 C solution of B. All the studied D dilutions of B had a therapeutic effect (in all the n = 8 cases), according to the identity principle, both on the relaxation induced by the N or D dilutions 1 C and on the contraction induced by the D dilution 45 C of B . The prerequisite was to use for the treatment, higher dilutions than the dilution used to induce the imbalance of tonicity. Thus, B in the D dilutions 5, 45, 75 and 200 C reduced the hypotonia induced by B in the 1 C dilution, both N and D. On the other hand, B in the D dilutions 55, 75 and 200 C diminished the contraction induced by B in the D dilution 45 C (Figure 3).


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## kel1059 (Feb 28, 2003)

============================================2004 study on BASOPHILSFull paper ----- HTML version --- 2004 http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:wZ6tV...araj+ives&hl=en Full paper ---- PDF version -- 2004 http://www.amhmg.org/Histamin2004.pdf Abstract --- 2004 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...t_uids=15105967 Inflamm Res. 2004 Apr;53(5):181-8. Epub 2004 Apr 21. Related Articles, Links ========================1999 paper PDF version --- 1999 http://www.homeopathy-israel.co.il/Ennis1.pdf HTML version --- 1999 http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:qPWWS...nd+Belon+&hl=en The biological action of ultra high dilutions is controversial [1, 2]. Inhibition of anti-IgE induced basophil degranulation by successive histamine dilutions is of interest, as it studies a chemically defined compound (histamine) which exerts a negative feed back effect via the histamine H 2 receptor. The biological activity is measured using the human basophil degranulation test, which is relatively simple to perform and does not require specialised equipment. Inhibition of baso====================================The newer research includes a series of studies conducted in four highly respected laboratories in Europe (Italy, Netherlands, Belgium, Scotland). A total of 3,764 measurements were taken, and significant biological effects were found from highly diluted doses of histamine. *Specifically, doses of histamine that were diluted 1:100 15 to 19 times were found to have substantially significant effects on inhibiting degranulation of basophils (p<0.0001). *==================================== http://www.newscientist.com/misc/popup_ns....id=ns99993817F1 http://www.vhan.nl/documents/Rey.thermoluminescence.pdf http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:F4wG_...+sodium+chlorid e+&hl=en[/URL]Abstract Ultra-high dilutions of lithium chloride and sodium chloride (10 −30 g cm −3 ) have been irradiated by X-rays and gamma-rays at 77 K, then progressively rewarmed to room temperature. During that phase, their thermoluminescence has been studied and it was found that, *despite their dilution beyond the Avogadro number, the emitted light was specific of the original salts dissolved initially. *====================================== http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...t_uids=11737881 CONCLUSIONS: Both Cad Sulph-30 and 200 were able to combat cadmium induced genotoxic effects in mice and that combined pre- and post-feeding mode of administration was found to be most effective in reducing the genotoxic effect of CdCl2 followed by the post-feeding mode.======================================= http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...5&dopt=Abstract Time related neutralization of two doses acetyl salicylic acid.Aguejouf O, Malfatti E, Belon P, Doutremepuich C.Laboratoire d'Hematologie, Faculte de Pharmacie, 146, Rue Leo-Saignat 33 076 Bordeaux Cedex, France.======================================= http://else.hebis.de/cgi-bin/sciserv.pl?co...=307_neocigcrcn Neurotoxicology Vol: 23, Issue: 3, September, 2002 Non-Linear Effects of Cycloheximide in Glutamate-Treated Cultured Rat Cerebellar Neurons Authors: Marotta, Dianea; Marini, Annb; Banaudha, Krishnab; Maharaj, Susanc; Ives, John; Morrissette, Craig R.d; Jonas, Wayne B.a. Samueli Institute for Informational Biology, Program on Neuroprotection and Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences, Bethesda, MD 20814, USAb. Department of Neurology and Neuroscience, Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences, Bethesda, MD 20814, USAc. Department of Environmental and Toxicologic Pathology, Armed Forces Institute of Pathology, Washington, DC 20306, USAd. Department of Statistics, Walter Reed Army Institute of Research, Silver Spring, MD 20910, USA ====================================== http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...t_uids=21077265 : Neuroreport. 2001 Feb 12,;12(2):335-9. Related Articles, Links Neuroprotection from glutamate toxicity with ultra-low dose glutamate.Lin Y, Tortella F.Department of Family Medicine, Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences, Bethesda, MD 20814, USA.======================================= http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...t_uids=15004445 [Article in German]Kratky KW.Institut fur Experimentalphysik der Universitat Wien, Vienna, Austria. karl.kratzky###univie.ac.at======================================== http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...t_uids=15287434 Permanent physico-chemical properties of extremely diluted aqueous solutions of homeopathic medicines.Elia V, Baiano S, Duro I, Napoli E, Niccoli M, Nonatelli L.Department of Chemistry, University Federico II of Naples, Complesso, Universitario di Monte S. Angelo, via Cintia 80126, Naples, Italy. elia###chemistry.unina.it==========================================Biologische Medizin/Heft 1/February 2004Professor Karen Nieber, head of the institute for pharmacy at Leipzig University, set about proving that homeopathy does not work and at the most can be explained by the so-called placebo effect. It was whilst looking for a test arrangement which totally excluded any placebo effect that she came up with the following idea: she placed a rat intestines in a nutrient solution and fixed it using organic threads to a sensor in order to measure the reduction of the intestines through contraction. She then added a stimulant to the nutrient solution, which caused a strong contraction of the rat intestines.Professor Karen Nieber, as a pharmacologist, expected that the treatment with a homeopathic agent with a potenz above C12 would have no effect against the enterospasms, since there are no more active agents present above this potenz. In Leipzig they then added Belladonna D90 to the nutrient solution with the rat intestines cramped through the stimulant they had added and lo and behold, the enterospasms ceased immediately, the measuring device registered the relaxation of the intestines.=====================================The research proves that homeopathic dilutions of Belladonna do have an influence on the motility of the gastrointestinal system. Influence is apparent in ACh- and SP-induced contractions. Contractions triggered by other kinds of signals (histamine on H1-receptors, K+-depolarisation) are not influenced by homeopathic Belladonna. This tells us, that Belladonna apparently does not have effect on the smooth muscle itself, but on the nerval mechanisms of communication.The effect of the high potencies of Belladonna cannot be due to the effects of the material substance of Belladonna. It is possible, that by the processes of homeopathic potentization, structure and dynamics of the liquid vehicle of the medicine are modified leading to a physico-chemiclal influence on mechanisms of communication. Biologische Medizin/Heft 1/February 2004======================================== http://www.biomedcentral.com/1472-6882/3/7 Ameliorating effect of microdoses of a potentized homeopathic drug, Arsenicum Album, on arsenic-induced toxicity in mice=================================== http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99991532 Bizarre chemical discovery gives homeopathic hint 19:00 07 November 01It is a chance discovery so unexpected it defies belief and threatens to reignite debate about whether there is a scientific basis for thinking homeopathic medicines really work.A team in South Korea has discovered a whole new dimension to just about the simplest chemical reaction in the book - what happens when you dissolve a substance in water and then add more water. Chemist Jan Enberts of the University of Groningen in the Netherlands is more cautious. "It's still a totally open question," he says. "To say the phenomenon has biological significance is pure speculation." But he has no doubt Samal and Geckeler have discovered something new. * "It's surprising and worrying,"* he says.======================================= http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...3&dopt=Abstract ================================Kleijnen 1991British Medical Journal. 107 trials. Criteria-based meta-analysis.  77% are positive  The higher the scientific merit of the study, the more likely it is to show homoeopathy as superior to placebo. The evidence presented in this review would probably be sufficient for establishing homoeopathy as a regular treatment for certain conditions.Boissel 1996Report for European Commission. 15 trials. Very strict inclusion criteria. Meta-analysis; data synthesis by combining the significance levels (p-values) for the primary outcomes from each trial.  Combined p value for the 15 trials was highly significant p=0.0002.  ' There is evidence that homeopathic medicine is more effective than placebo' .  Little evidence of publication bias.  Further high quality studies are needed.Linde 1997Lancet. 89 trials. Meta-analysis; data synthesis by combining the odds ratios.  Combined odds ratio 2.45 (95% CI 2.05, 2.93) in favour of homeopathy.  Odds ratio for 26 best quality studies was 1.66.  No evidence of significant publication bias.  The results are not compatible with the hypothesis that the clinical effects of homeopathy are completely due to placebo. ====================================== http://www.abc.net.au/dimensions/health/tr...pts/s370216.htm AMA (Australian Medical Association) calls for an "open mind" on homoeopathy AMA calls for an "open mind" on homeopathySome medical groups have found it difficult to accept evidence of homoeopathy's effectiveness because it appears to counter the current understanding of how drugs work. Many homoeopathic medicines are so dilute that no single molecule is left in the solution." My view is that the evidence should speak for itself ," says Dr Roberta Chow, a member of the Federal AMA's Advisory Committee on Complementary Medicine. "There have been other studies like this and if the BMJ is prepared to look at it perhaps we should be more open minded about it." Dr Chow also points to evidence involving the imprinting of water molecules that suggests a possible mechanism for how homoeopathy might work in the absence of molecules left in solution. Dr Chow says she is disappointed that there is a lack of official support for doctor training in complementary medicine at a time when it is so widely used in the community."For doctors to be ignorant of such things, we are not giving our patients the best management available, the best advice we can." Anna Salleh - ABC Science Online======================================In France 18 000 (32%) of all general practitioners, 700 veterinarians and 2 000 dentists (5%) prescribe homeopathic medicines to their patients. ======================================Use of homeopathy by physicians in Europe • 40% (18,000) of French M.D.s have treated 40% of the French public (Compl Med Research, May 1990, 4(2)4-8.) • 40 % of Dutch • 37% of British and 42% of family physicians refer to homeopaths (BMJ, 292, June 7,1986, 1498- 1500) • 20% of German • 20% of Scottish physicians have had training in homeopath======================================= http://www.entretiens-internationaux.mc/cambar.htm ConclusionThe presentation of the results obtained in our laboratory for more than 12 years has been divided into two chronological and methodological parts, considering previous in vivo and recent in vitro experiments.We have shown, in vivo in rodents, that high dilutions of mercury can significantly reduce the death rate induced by toxic doses of the same metal. Thus, the death rate of mice intoxicated with high doses of mercury was markedly reduced by a 7 day pretreatment with 10-30 M concentrations of that metal. For example, the death rate following a single injection of 5 mg/kg HgCl2 was 73.4% in control, 50% for those pretreated with 10-18 M and only 26.7% for those pretreated with 10-30 M.We found the same profile of response with our in vitro model in which 10-30 and 10-40 M dilutions provided a fair protection against cadmium induced cytotoxicity in renal tubular cell cultures. Similar results have recently been described for high dilutions of thymulin (Bastide et al., 1987), bursin (Youbicier-Simo et al.., 1993) and silica (Oberbaum et al.., 1992).======================================. http://www.entretiens-internationaux.mc/endler.htm Recent physics research has revealed that water dipoles may develop phase coherent oscillations through radiation coupling (del Giudice et al., 1988; del Giudice, 1994). It is proposed that these could be modulated as a time-ordered pattern of signals (Endler and Schulte, 1994) and induce the coherent wave propagation (electron propagation) in metals (Endler and Schulte, 1994). A further theory suggests that the phase coherent oscillations may originate information pattern formation through isotopicity effects in high dilutions (Endler and Schulte, 1994). The theoretical physical aspect of the experiments A - D referenced here has yet to be evaluated in order to test and develop a theory on bio-information storage and transfer in 'homoeopathically' prepared dilutions.======================================. http://www.entretiens-internationaux.mc/cristun.htm 3.3. THE EFFECT OF BELLADONNA (







DILUTIONS ACCORDING TO THE IDENTITY PRINCIPLE ("AEQUALIA AEQUALIBUS CURENTUR") USED IN ISOPATHYThe N solutions of B had no curative effect, according to the identity principle, on the relaxation induced by the 1 C solution of B. All the studied D dilutions of B had a therapeutic effect (in all the n = 8 cases), according to the identity principle, both on the relaxation induced by the N or D dilutions 1 C and on the contraction induced by the D dilution 45 C of B . The prerequisite was to use for the treatment, higher dilutions than the dilution used to induce the imbalance of tonicity. Thus, B in the D dilutions 5, 45, 75 and 200 C reduced the hypotonia induced by B in the 1 C dilution, both N and D. On the other hand, B in the D dilutions 55, 75 and 200 C diminished the contraction induced by B in the D dilution 45 C (Figure 3).


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