# A Haunting Experience



## Sherlock (May 14, 1999)

A little off the mainstream, maybe...but is anyone else here being haunted? *L* I mean that literally....my apartment building has a ghost. I thought I was the only one aware of it, but after talking to some other tenants the last few weeks, I've found out they've had some close encounters too. My hubby thinks I'm just nuts...but it isn't the first time I've experienced such a thing.


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## bloomers (Apr 19, 1999)

You've sparked my curiousity Sherlock. I swear I felt a presence when I was 4 years old. One day we were talking about this at work and 4 people from my department admitted having an experience like this.Can you tell us what you experienced?


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## Guest (May 15, 1999)

Hi Sherlock, and welcome!!Yes, I've had a couple of paranormal experiences, but both were "good" ones. Here's one that I found VERY intense, and unfortunately, nobody else was around to witness it:A little over 2 years ago, my husband and I moved to Georgia from California (he got a new job). Anyway, we were looking around for a house. There were a couple we liked, but then we happened upon this one. The first time we came in here to look around, I felt a definite presence. I liked the house alot, but I was very uneasy about this "feeling" I had. I didn't really want to say anything, but the owner somehow "knew" that I was uneasy, and he told me that he knew how I felt. He said that there had been alot of hard times and bad vibes around here for the last 6 years that he was living here. My husband wasn't part of this conversation, and when we left, he told me how much he LOVED the house. I couldn't tell him about this stuff, he would have thought I was insane. A few days later we decided to buy the house. The next day I came over here alone. I opened the front door and left it open. I felt the presence very strongly now. I went into the kitchen, started walking into the diningroom, and felt like I was being pulled back to look at the kitchen again. I don't know how to describe what I saw, but I'll try:There is a wall that separates the kitchen from the breakfast room. The stove and counter is there, and there is an opening to see into the kitchen. At the top of the wall, at the ceiling, in the corner, this is what I saw: A black translucent "sphere" type of thing, about the size of a baseball, "flew" from the corner, through the kitchen, through the livingroom, and out the front door. This was so fast that at first, I thought for sure I was seeing things. But in about 30 seconds, the presence was gone. Maybe this was real, maybe it was in my head, but regardless, the presence never returned. I think the house "knew" that I was going to take care of it, (unlike the former owner and tenants), and when it realized that those keys in my had were MINE NOW, it gave up and released all of those bad memories.We absolutely love this house and have had 2 wonderful years here so far, and expect to stay around for a long time.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

*To start off the paranormal like ghosts ain't real.*







That fact established, human imagination and hallucination while you are awake are very strong and *it is not nuts or insane to think you see something that really isnï¿½t there*. During sleep, we call this dreaming.


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## bloomers (Apr 19, 1999)

LOL - I KNEW you'd jump in on this one Flux.


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## Guest (May 15, 1999)

Hey Flux, maybe you're not real either!!


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## Anxious (Apr 28, 1999)

Good one Torpedo Butt!!! ha ha!! LMAO!!Your story was spooky Torpedo Butt...I have one too: Our house, perhaps our entire neighbourhood! I had mentioned in one of the other threads, I forget which one now, that originally a lot of very young people moved into this neighbourhood many years ago - we had lots of block parties, etc. - a nice big happy bunch. I got divorced, and I swear right after that, so did EVERYBODY ELSE! I am quite aware that divorces run rampant in our society, but it does seem quite a coincidence that ALL of us here got divorced in a period of, oh, a couple of years, I guess it would be. This makes me wonder if it is not just our house, but rather the entire area!Our house - actually it is not me but rather my 2 older girls who feel this. I will mention that when I was pregnant with my first daughter I seemed to have a bit offoresight or something like that at that time... Anyway, they both have felt a presence, so strong, mostly in the basement where I am sitting now, ALONE, my 12 year old is upstairs sleeping... At the back door, the backyard they feel has "something" that totally freaks them out when they have to come indoors, especially at night, and coming downstairs they feel as though "something" is right behind them! They can't get in quick enough!!Other stuff - They both have heard our kitchen chairs moving around in the night when we are all sleeping! My 22 year olds dresser drawers open when she knows she has closed them! All of them! etc...Just a general feeling that there is "something" here...Back in the past - my boyfriend's/future 1st husband's very first car - I SWEAR that car was inhabited by SOMETHING!!! Everybody who ever got into that car didn't like it - it made them feel creepy! One time in particular we were driving along and I felt SO STRONGLY that there was SOMETHING in the back seat - I was TERRIFIED to turn around and look, never told my boyfriend about it at the time... some time later when I did tell him (thinking he would scoff at me) he said he had experienced the very same feeling that night!! He, also, was very frightened to turn around and look! He sold the car!Could I possibly be haunted by that very same "being" - has it followed me here - to this house????Interesting subject...


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## Sherlock (May 14, 1999)

Bloomers...well, in this building, our elevator regularly meets people as they approach it, although there is no one inside. It's been tested....no electrical problems. Many times, I've felt someone is following me through the halls or stairwells, although that could be my paranoia. But I've seen someone walk past my kitchen and bedroom doors when I've been home alone, and felt someone in the room with me many times. I also cannot sleep in my living room without waking up and feeling that someone is standing over me. Another lady in the building has seen a woman standing in her bathroom, but she lives alone. A young man said he was talking to his girlfriend in the kitchen, then left and walked down his hall toward the bathroom and saw his girlfriend already there but he hadn't passed her in the hall. When he turned around in a "double-take", she was still in the kitchen preparing dinner. My landlady has been walking down her hall and physically bumped into something, but there was nothing there. There have been a few people who've died in the building over the years, but none violently as far as I know. So far, no one really seems threatened by whoever may be lurking here.------------------An' it harm none, do what thou wilt.


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## Sherlock (May 14, 1999)

Flux, I'm afraid I don't agree with you...







My family history and personal beliefs and experiences lead me to believe that ghosts do exist. I sometimes wish I could definitely say "There's no such thing as ghosts" and truly believe it...it would make my life much easier. My father passed away when I was only 5 years old, my mother when I was 20. I have been visited by both of them, more than once. Yes, that could be attributed to an emotional need to see them, but I don't think it was. Other people have seen them as well. There is a long history of forerunners, witchcraft, ghosts and such in my family...I guess seeing is believing for us. ------------------An' it harm none, do what thou wilt.


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## Spirit (May 9, 1999)

Flux: I don't want to be rude, but you've got your opinions. Don't make then into fact when in fact there IS NO PROOF that ghosts don't exist. Hallucinations, yes. Ghosts and paranormal activity... NO.I do believe that there is something there. I knew a girl who lived in this big house. It was just her and her stepfather (who was NEVER home). The lady who lived there before them had killed herself in the bathtub. Ever sonce they bought the house, they felt something strange. When I went there, I ALWAYS felt like someone else was home. At night you could hear someone walking up and down the stairs. Windows would open for no reason. The bathroom faucets would turn on spontaniously. Things like that. One incident in particular... We were watching tv, when the venition blinds parted as if someone was trying to look out the window. They parted big.. About 2 inches in the middle. Another incident... We were sitting at the kitchen table eating dinner, and there was this little tree in the corner that seperated the living room. It was a neat little tree. Tall (about 2 1/2 feet, and very 'branchy'). All the doors and windows were closed, and there was no way a wind could have have come inside. The tree shook at first violently, then stopped. Then it was as if someone had taken ONE leaf, pulled it to the touch the ground (along with the branch) then let it go. The leaf fell off so gently and fell to the floor. There were other strange things too. Keys for one. I remember a couple times when I was alone in the house and I put my keys on the kitchen counter, then went to grab a sweater (or something), and when I returned, the keys were gone. I'd always find them downstairs by (or sometimes) in my shoes. This happened to everybody who left their keys alone in that house. Then a few months later I had a dream. Or what I thought was a dream. I was in my bed and I woke up, but I didn't open my eyes. I felt myself levitate about a foot off the bed. It was the strangest feeling (my hair and clothes were hanging). I opened my eyes, and when I did I saw this lady standing at the foot of my bed. Suddenly I fell back onto the mattress, and she told me (telepathically) that I was not to fear her, and she needed my help. She took me on some sort of journey (that's the best I can explain it). Then I woke up. She told me her name, and after a bit of research, we found out that it was the lady who killed herself in the bathtub. That was the last anyone ever heard from that ghost.So there you have it. In my opinion, ghosts DO exist. That was NO hallucination. And as for the "black sphere", I've seen those too. I know a LOT of people who talk about black transparent shapes. I do believe that there is something more to that than the imagination.


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## Anxious (Apr 28, 1999)

Spirit - I still have "goosebumps" after reading of your experience about levitating above your bed! Wow! You must have been terrified..Sherlock - really, you were visited by your parents after they died? That is really wonderful - I only hope that I can get some comfort in such a way when my loved ones die. Were you a bit scared though? I think I would be. My husband says he never wants to leave me and if he should happen to die first, he will make every effort to contact me. I made him promise that if it scares me though to please leave me alone...


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## Spirit (May 9, 1999)

Anxious: No. At first I felt that "OH MY GOD! I'M OFF MY BED" feeling, but as soon as I heard... no... 'felt' her voice, I knew it was alright. What an experience though. Flux: I'm sorry if I came off harsh. I just don't like it when people say that thier opinion on something (such as a belief in ghosts) is not fact. Ghosts and paranormal experiences has never been proven to be true or untrue. Same as Alien abduction... but that's a WHOLE other story... How can billions of people across the world have similar experiences, and it proven to be a figment of their imagination? Are we all nuts???


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

Clearly, what everyone has recounted here was not real.The world around us is created by our brain. It puts together the shapes and colors of everything around us. Normally, it does this by gathering information from the outside and usually it is accurate, or so it seems.Examine the picture below







Do the lines look parallel?This is one way in which our brains can be fooled, but it is also possible for our brains to completely fabricate the outside world. These are called dreams.There is nothing that physically presents the brain from making mistakes or from "dreaming" while we are awake. Further, it is not unusual for many people to share similar misperceptions, such as the black sphere. For example, many people who claim to be abducted by aliens give similar accounts. This is actually evidence that their experiences have been shaped by reading or hearing othersï¿½s accounts of such an experience.[This message has been edited by flux (edited 05-15-99).]


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## Anxious (Apr 28, 1999)

Spirit - what an experience is right! Again, wow!What about "life after death" experiences? I've read some things about that - people documenting their experiences, etc., that is something...


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

Life after death experiences, technically known as Near Death Experiences (NDE) are obviously not real, either.Some have suggested they are due overactivity of the retina, which isn't getting as much oxygen during the time the person is being revived. This would explain the bright light that people claim they see.


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## Spirit (May 9, 1999)

Flux: You're starting to hit a nerve. So you don't believe! Big WHOOP!!! What right do you have to tell ANYBODY else here that we're ALL wrong??? Or that ghosts DON'T exist. YOU don't know that. NOBODY knows that! EXPERTS don't even know that! We've had our experiences. Just leave it at that, okay?? If you believe that all our experiences were figments of our imaginations, that's fine. But please don't tell us that we're wrong. We know what happened to us, and if you don't believe it, that's your own opinion. Alright? Again.. I'm trying not to be rude here. Sorry if it's coming across that way. I'm just REALLY bothered by people who express their opinions as FACT rather than their OPINION! It's all about belief here, and if you can't handle that...


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## Anxious (Apr 28, 1999)

Spirit - you sound just like I used to be! Don't let flux get to you - we all just ignore him here! Okay?...


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

Nobody denies the experiences people have when they think they see a ghost or a space alien is a real experience. However, the explanation that these are actual ghosts or space aliens is not accepted by any recognized expert. The current thinking of the experts is that these experiences are due to the imagination or misperceptions of a perfectly sane human brain.


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## Spirit (May 9, 1999)

Anxious: Okay. Thanx for the tip!







Flux: To quote you: "The current thinking of the experts is that these experiences are due to the imagination or misperceptions of a perfectly sane human brain." RIGHT! because there IS NO PROOF. All I was asking of you is not to judge others, or press your opinions upon us by saying things like "Clearly, what everyone has recounted here was not real". It's very offensive to those who experienced it, because it felt real to us. No hard feelings, kay? Sorry if any offence was given.


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## Guest (May 16, 1999)

HERE WE GO AGAIN - OLD TIMERS KNOW WHAT I MEAN.


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## Anxious (Apr 28, 1999)

Torpedo Butt - I'm not even an "old timer" as you put it, but since I've been here so often, as FLUX was so kind to bring to everyone's attention in another post, I DO know what you mean... tee hee...


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## Anxious (Apr 28, 1999)

OOPS!!!!! Sorry FLUX - it was KEN who did that! Its just that the two of you seem so similar somehow - guess I got you confused!


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## hmmmmmmmm (May 4, 1999)

Well I kind of agree with Flux here never had any supernatural experiences I think (don't hit me) its got to with the amount of imagination someone has.. I am a realist probably why I have IBS take everything at face value


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## Missycat (Apr 3, 1999)

My Mom has said for years that we have witches in our ancestry....... I'm sure my Mom is psychic. When I was in college, my roomate and I had a huge fight. I took my pillow and a blanket downstaris to sleep in the dorm's lounge. I was really upset and crying at 4 in the morning - I didn't get any sleep that night.My Mom called me the next day and said, "honey, what's wrong? I woke up a 4 and knew you were unhappy about something." She felt it - about 75 miles away, and at the same time as my distress. My grandmother was the same way, only stronger. She always could guess the sex of a baby when someone was pregnant!------------------Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.*Missycat*


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## Spirit (May 9, 1999)

Missycat: Hey! Me too! My mom can ALWAYS knows the sex of unborn children. A few times she even knew that the person was pregnant before they knew! She does that a lot with me too. She's always had the ability to know who I liked, or who liked me (boyfriend wise, I mean) before it happened. She has an uncanny way of knowing what's going to happen. I do the same, but for me it's dreams. I dream things that happen, as they're happening, or JUST before they happen. It's kind of spooky. Speaking on the same subject, an old roommate of mine had a little girl. When she was about 2 or 3, she would always say "-the person's name- is on the phone!", or she would pretend to be talking to them. She'd do it about 5 minutes before the phone would ring, or when it would ring we'd ask her who it was before answering it. She was NEVER wrong! She's about 8 now, and she still does it from time to time.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

There is a simple explanation for the two above anecdotes: lucky guesses. What makes the guesses seem accurate is that one remembers when they are right, not when they are wrong. Besides, getting it right several times in a row is not out of sync with random chance.


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## Spirit (May 9, 1999)

Ignoring...


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## Anxious (Apr 28, 1999)

"lucky guesses"???????????????????????????


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## Lena (Jan 7, 1999)

Geez, ya'all are making the hair on the back of my neck raise. I once worked for a lady whose mother knew of a ghost or presence in their house and she was a good ghost. My boss told me once when her little brother was very sick the ghost came in and woke the mother up and motioned with her hand for the mother to come to the boy's room where he had a very high temperature and had to be brought to the E.R. One other thing happened several years ago when I was in the Air Force and at Patrick AFB FL, my dorm roommate's father had passed away at night and she was going to fly back to Mobile the next day and she went to stay in her boyfriends room and during the night the boyfriend starting feeling weird and said something was inside of him and then a voice came out of him and said in her father's voice, "Care, I'm alright now." The boyfriend didn't know that was the father's nickname for her, her name was Karen. Then right after that a lamp in the room that wasn't plugged in lit up and then went off. Oh, geez, I have those raised hairs on my neck again. I used to work with a lady who was sort of weird and I saw her and her daughter one day in Walmart and she introduced to me to her, she was about 7 at the time and the girl touched me and then told her mother there was no evil in me. I was like, what the hell is going on here. My daughter and I just got back from seeing the movie "MUMMY" and now I read this post. P.S. It was a great movie.LenaI'm not going to check this post for typos, I don't want to read it again and get the hair raising on my neck again.


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## Sherlock (May 14, 1999)

Gee, guess I started something here. Flux, you are perfectly entitled to your opinions, and think us crazy if you must.








Oh, and those lines don't look parrallel to me.Anxious, no, I wasn't afraid. I'd been seeing my Dad for years and so had other people. I was pretty much expecting to see my Mom after she died. Like I said, such things are in my family history...it goes back many generations. There is also telekenisis in the family tree....although all I've ever succeeded in was getting a whopping headache.


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## jenEbean (Apr 5, 1999)

I have had two different experiences in this house that we have lived in for 22 years. We are the only people who have lived here. One day I was sitting in the living room reading and a baseball on the other side of the room started rolling across the room. There were no windows open, no drafts of any kind. The ball had been sitting there all day and no one walked by it or anything. It just rolled across the carpeted room. Another time not long ago I bought a pyrex casserole dish and had not taken it out of the box. I put it at the top of the stairs on the landing to take down the next time I went. The box was no where near the edge of the step. In the middle of the night my husband and I heard a terrific crash and went on a hunt to see what it was. There was the box at the bottom of the steps. We thought maybe it was too close to the edge but when we looked we could see exactly where the box had been sitting (impression left in the carpet) and there was absolutely no way that box could have fallen by itself. Strange but true....By the way, we saw the Mummy last night too, it was pretty good, I was hoping for more scare though.







------------------The trouble with life is, that you are halfway through it before you realize it is a do-it-yourself project.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

The lines are indeed parallel. Our (pefectly sane) brains are just fooled into thinking they are not.Nobody in the world has ever demonstrated telekinetic powers. The ouija boards and spoon-bending are just sleight of hand..something the (pefectly sane) brain falls for quite easily.


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## Sherlock (May 14, 1999)

Sorry, Flux...but I've used witchboards many times over the years...no slight of hand involved. Obviously, you are set in your beliefs...but so am I. I guess we won't know anything for sure until we die, and go wherever we may. If you turn up in the Summerlands, I'll be sure to say hello.







------------------An' it harm none, do what thou wilt.


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## Spirit (May 9, 1999)

I agree with Sherlock. I used to own a ouiji board, and I gave it away because it gave me the creeps. I suppose it's possible for it to be moved using the power of your mind (energy being pushed through your fingertips), but so many WIERD things happened when I used it. I got answers to questions I could NEVER even GUESS at the answers! Scary! *shudder*PS. Flux: That pic is called an illusion. Illusions fool our brains into seeing things in a way that is different from reality. They need to made by humans, not the paranormal. The lines look perfectly straight to me. It's the angled ones that make it look different.







[This message has been edited by Spirit (edited 05-15-99).][This message has been edited by Spirit (edited 05-15-99).]


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## Anxious (Apr 28, 1999)

Sherlock - that is truly amazing. When you saw your parents did they say anything to you? Or were they just there? I'm very curious about this - please tell more.I'm the type of person that believes anything could be possible - how do WE really know for sure? I'm open to the "possibility" of this kind of thing until it is proven to me that it is NOT real. And since I've had "feelings" that makes me believe "something" is out there...


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

I am not in set in my ways.. *The Amazing Randi has got a million dollars for you personally if you can demonstrate a working ouija board.* Win the million and Iï¿½ll believe you!Check it out: http://www.randi.org/jr/chall.html Illusions are just what deceives the brain. Mirages are illusions, but they are not made by humans. However, the paranormal stems entirely from bumans, the human brain to precise.[This message has been edited by flux (edited 05-15-99).]


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## Sherlock (May 14, 1999)

Anxious...I would often see my father in the doorway of my bedroom...he would look in on me, smile, and walk away. My mother only appeared a couple of times...never said anything...but sat on the edge of my bed once...I actually felt the bed shift like weight was on it. I wasn't frightened because I knew they would never do anything to scare me.------------------An' it harm none, do what thou wilt.


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## Anxious (Apr 28, 1999)

Sherlock - I was hoping perhaps that they might have said something to let you know what it is like after death... but still, to actually see them, that is wonderful too - it gives me hope that there is something for us after we die. Where we can be with our loved ones...


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

All of us go to the same place after we die..under six feet of dirt. That doesn't seem like a whole to hope for. Of course, once you're dead, it's pretty much a moot point.[This message has been edited by flux (edited 05-16-99).]


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## Spirit (May 9, 1999)

Still ignoring... Flux: uh-huh...


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## marianne (Jan 3, 1999)

So many cultures believe in ghosts and the paranormal that it is hard to discount supposed "sightings." My mother died very suddenly in1961 of a fairly rare disorder - slceroderma. Her condition was misdiagnosed as rheumatoid arthritis and so we had no fear that she was about to die. It was only after her death, after an autopsy, that we learned the true cause--a brain hermorrhage caused by the scleroderma. One of the main manifestations of the disease were her stiffened and red hands, a cruel fate for someone who was a talented painter. My husband and I set out for a two-month trip to Europe in February of that year; we had a vague itinerary( 2 weeks in England; 2 weeks in Paris; and 2 weeks in Firenze; back to England via Austria and departure) since we were young and we often slept at hostels and hotels that cost less than $5 a night. Our families only had four addresses - at American Express offices - at which to get in touch with us. We landed in London and traveled about England and Ireland; we then returned to London since we had liked the city so much and spent more time there then we had anticipated; so we were already 1 week behind our schedule. We had a friend in London who had lost her husband and she went regularly to the British Psychical Society hoping to get in touch with him. She suggested that I might want to go someday and I did so out of curiositdy. It cost about $1 to get a reading. I entered a small well-lit room, there were about 5 persons and the psychic present. Nobody introduced themselves and so nobody had any information about me. At the middle of the session the psychic told me that there was someone who wanted to get in touch with me -- a woman holding out her hands -- the hands were red and she was holding a paint brush. I told the psychic that she must be mistaken, although I knew a person of that description she was alive. The psychic then suggested that I go to the front desk and get my money back, which I did.When I got back to the hotel we called my Father and I learned that my mother had died two days before and that a message had been sent to the Paris office of Am Exp.informing me of this.


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## Anxious (Apr 28, 1999)

marianne - that is really something... I once went to a physcic - she didn't know me and was able to tell me some very accurate things about my family, etc. It is truly amazing, isn't it???


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

Marianne, what you described sounds like simple coincidence. And I wouldn't call that discounting the incident. I would call that the most obvious explanation. Anxious, it's hardly amazing; it's actually a simple trick called the Forer effect. See http://wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us/go/btcarrol/skeptic/forer.html


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## Spirit (May 9, 1999)

marianne: That's really creepy. I, personally don't believe in psychics, but I have heard some strange stories. Let me ask you a question... Did you give her ANY information that may lead her to who you are? That's scary, none the less!


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## marianne (Jan 3, 1999)

Nobody gave the psychic any information. I just said hello, and she asked if I was American. My friend was not present. When you entered the Society building you paid your fee and got to pick which psychic you wanted. I picked by the sound of the name since I didn't really know anyone. Frankly, I think most psychics are frauds; but in this case I was convinced that paranomal powers were exhibited.The British Society was founded at the turn of the century, Arthur Conan Doyle was, I believe one of its founding members. It is not-for-profit. I never went back.


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## Spirit (May 9, 1999)

Marianne: Well then... I guess I'd have to agree! That's just TOO much of a coincidence...


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

Letï¿½s see if I have this right, according to your logic, Marianne...When they get it wrong (heads when you are holding tails), they are called frauds.When they get it right (tails when you are holding tails), they are said to be exhibit paranormal powers.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

More like a *minor* coincidence. For example, that "psychic" person might just be telling that same tale to everyone who walks through the door. Then she gets 1 hit of 100 and Marianne was the one hit.


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## Spirit (May 9, 1999)

Oh, Good Lord, Flux. Get over it already...? Let us talk abut this!! Why do you even respond to these posts???


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## Anxious (Apr 28, 1999)

Spirit - I guess as long as WE keep responding to HIM, he'll continue.... Everybody, ignore flux...


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## Spirit (May 9, 1999)

Anxious: I know that... BUT GOD ALMIGHTY!!! ENOUGH!!! LOL!!! I guess I'm just anal THAT way! HEE HEE!!PS. Did you read that Flux??? LOL!!


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## Guest (May 17, 1999)

What a most interesting thread to post on. I am not going to share my story here but you guys are really encouraging me to write a very necessary book!!!!!!! Flux, I hate to say that I could very well disprove your opinion that the supernatural does not exist. But, I took a vow of silence where the incidences took place; and I cannot share them with anyone. Not yet.But all of you fellow IBSers - ghosts are very real. And I wish my husband were here right now to share his story; but I will not tell you that either without his permission.I guess we really will have to write the book and go from there.What a thread though. How curious are ya'll?AMF


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## Anxious (Apr 28, 1999)

AMF - you definitely piqued my curiousity! Are you gonna tell us?


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## Guest (May 17, 1999)

Maybe I'm not supposed to post this! I tried earlier and got cut off---I'm with Anxious, I would like to know.My sister (Now deceased) and her family lived in a house in South Jackson. The garage light stayed on all the time, even with the switch off. My brother-in-law cut the wires to the light, but it still stayed on. They later learned that the lady that lived there had a tragic death--don't remember what.They moved soon after--I don't blame them--I would have also.------------------LET'S ALL PRAY FOR A CURE TO THIS IBS SOON!BETTIE


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

Let me look into my crystal ball and see if *I* can make a psychic prediction







.







Hmm, my trusty ball says AMF will come up short.


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## Sherlock (May 14, 1999)

Good morning everyone! There have been some very interesting posts on this...thanks for sharing your stories.Well, I'm going to give Flux another chance to prove us all as babbling idiots...*L*I have attended many seances over the years. Whatever happened in those rooms during the ceremony was definitely not our collective imaginations. At some there was actual physical manifestations of objects that we all touched with our own hands. Perhaps my religious beliefs and family history have influenced my unshakable belief in another dimension or after life or whatever you might wish to call it. I won't get into a religious debate here...I don't think they serve any purpose but to anger the parties involved. Anyone who recognizes my signature will recognize who I am.And as for Flux, dear thing, I had an aunt who was older than dirt who told me once, "Don't try to teach a pig to sing. The pig is not capable of understanding, and it'll annoy the hell out of you." Guess that's a two-way street here.







babble,babble,babble,babble,babble,babble.....------------------An' it harm none, do what thou wilt.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

The most likely explanation for the "physical manifestations of the objects" is probably the "ideomotor action" effect. We all have a bit of built-in self-deceptive capabilities.


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## SteveE (Jan 7, 1999)

I don't know about ghosts, and I don't know about people who call themselves psychics, but I DO know that I've had a few experiences that one might label as "psychic." I'd love to be able to explain them away as coincidence...but I can't do that so easily. I could provide a long list of such things for you, but I'll just share the first one I ever experienced:When I was in the 4th grade, I woke-up from a horrific nightmare. I literally ran from my room to find my mother that morning. I didn't want to tell her about it, but she insisted that it would make me feel better if I did (meanwhile getting out the thermometer because she thought I might be getting sick). So, I described the scene of an airplane hitting some kind of metal structure and falling into an icey and narrow body of water. I saw people screaming for help with ice all around them.Mom dismissed it as a bad dream and sent me off to school. When I arrived back home at the end of the day, I had sufficiently put the dream out of my mind. However, I noticed my mother was watching TV...this was way out of the ordinary for that time of day. She called me into the living room and asked me if "this was what you saw in your dream." I was astonished to watch several people being plucked from an icey river (the Potomac in D.C.) as a result of the small airplane they were on hitting a nearby bridge over that river at about the time I was being dismissed from school.I actually felt guilty for awhile that I had somehow caused the event by dreaming about it...of course I eventually decided that it was certainly irrational to believe that, but is it really irrational to believe it was more than coincidence?I mean, I can see deja vu being coincidence, but this was so detailed! I could see the time I had to leave work because I felt really shakey only to go home and get a call that my cat which I had cared for for 13+ years had died might be a coincidence, but if anyone can explain how that dream could've been a coincidence, then I'm all ears!


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## Missycat (Apr 3, 1999)

Hey pals! I've been "away" for a day and all hell breaks loose! I can relate more stories about my family's "powers", but won't because you all seem to be believers. As for Flux - us old-timers have learned to ignore him - he'll go away if you do that. Don't even bother to read his posts - that's what I do - skip right over them. You all have much more interesting things to say, anyway!------------------Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.*Missycat*


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## Guest (May 17, 1999)

Very interesting stories.I don't really have stories of seeing ghosts or seeing things move or other strange occurrences, though I do believe in those things. I mostly experience things like thinking about people I haven't thought of in a while, then running into them on the street or getting a call from them.It makes me laugh when Flux says something is not "real" because it is experienced in the mind. Just because something doesn't have physical attributes doesn't mean it doesn't exist. A "ghost" exists because displaced psychic energy needs to go somewhere. It's just like anything else--like water being poured from one glass into another. If someone kills themself, there is usually great trauma and psychic disturbance. When the person is dead, all that energy has to go somewhere. I truly believe that. That's whyduring adolescence there are stories of "hauntings"--there is much psychic disturbance at this time of life, and it can manifest itself in strange ways. Almost two years ago, I was going through a really trying time of life. No job, couldn't find a place to live, and IBS was raging.I had started therapy, and was examining some really difficult issues in my history. I awoke one night, suddenly, and opened my eyes. The heavy down comforter on top of me started to lift off my body, like someone was holding the center of it so it made a point, rising two to three feet above me. I couldn't move or speak, but was fully conscious. Finally I was able to make a noise, and the comforter fell back down onto my body. I was wide awake then and felt calm. Make of this what you will, but to me this is just another example of our minds influencing our environment. There is magic all around us, some of it explainable, much of it not. I believe these things happen for a reason, and there is no need to prove or disprove them, and no need to argue with someone who doesn't believe.As for psychic abilities like clairvoyance, or knowing someone's experience thousands of miles away, these things are all within most people's brain power. These are skills that can be developed and are more evident in some people than others. Science just doesn't know about them yet/can't prove or disprove them. Even scientists say we only use 6% of our brains.


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## Guest (May 17, 1999)

Okay, guys. I will have to satisfy your curiosity; but not until I have finished running my errands. Also I need to think about what I can say and what I can't. You see, some of the stuff (practically all of it) is of religious origin and I cannot give out where or when it took place but I think that I can tell you the events that happened. Also, I have a second story in which I must also be careful about names because of privacy. But as soon as I return I will share the stories with you guys. And Flux, thank you for the laugh. I really needed that. And it is you that I must convince anyway; although, on the movie about St. Bernadette, it was said, "For those who believe, no explanation is necessary; for those who do not believe, no explanation is possible." So with that in mind; I will share my story after while and then you can decide, again!!!!!Flux, you remind me of one of my brothers - he used to never agree with any of us; but since he is in the Navy and married; we all have had a closer relationship - and get along pretty well.Bless you, Flux!AMF


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## Spirit (May 9, 1999)

Dogwood: I agree with all that you're saying. Did you read my post above about my experience? It's very similar to yours. I rose off my bed then as soon as I made a sound, I fell back onto it. Creepy..."I believe these things happen for a reason, and there is no need to prove or disprove them, and no need to argue with someone who doesn't believe." THANK YOU for saying this!!!AMF: "For those who believe, no explanation is necessary; for those who do not believe, no explanation is possible." That's great!!! Thanx for putting that in your post!May the ghosts be with you!! (HEE! BAD take-off from Star Wars)


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## Anxious (Apr 28, 1999)

Some very interesting things above! Makes you wonder, but SteveE - wow! To see it in such detail BEFORE it happened! Or were you seeing it AS it happened? How does the time frame enter into this? Incredible!Anything is possible...


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

Steve, it is not out of the realm of coincidence. First, on any given day there is a plane crash, how many people are asleep dreaming? In the US alone, it's probably in close 300 million. That's a lot of dreams. Odds have it somebody somewhere had a dream about a plane crash, probably several people. On that day, you were one of them. The particulars are harder to explain, but if we assume that dreams can follow the real world, it is not that unreasonable that your brain picked a way that just happened to follow reality.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

Dogwood, what the devil is psychic energy? Is that something we can touch, can we put it in a bottle? Can it be used to light a flashlight? Power your car? Can someone get "fried" if we touch a person just as he or she is dying?It sounds like what you experienced is a well-known as sleep paralysis and hypnagogic phenonomenon.As for clairvoyance, no scientist is trying to explain it because nobody has ever been discovered to have it yet.And for the brain, where does the 6% figure come from? Not from any scientist studying the brain.


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## Guest (May 17, 1999)

Flux,Do you mind telling me what your occupation is ?


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## Spirit (May 9, 1999)

DJ: I've been wondering that myself... Seeing as he's such an expert and all...


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## Anxious (Apr 28, 1999)

DJ/Spirit - I've already asked flux what his occupation is! But I did not receive a response. I, too, was curious what he does for a living since he seems to be such an authority on everything!Come on flux - do tell!


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

computer programmer.


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## Spirit (May 9, 1999)

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Guest (May 18, 1999)

Spirit: What does LMAO stand for? I keep forgetting to ask. I've never been told what they stand for. Took me a long time to figure out what LOL meant. (for ya'll's information, I don't get jokes either!) That is the truth; I rarely get them! I am indeed very special!!!!! Don't ya'll feel special?Now here are my stories; with names and places left out to protect the privacy of other people! Deal? Deal!Story 1) This story is the most religious of all: I will warn you; this one is about the "Devil In Disguise", if you will.This happened when I lived with some other people in another state sixteen years ago.I came home that night from a play that I went to see (I forgot the name of the play)and went right to bed. It was kind of late because the play was lengthy. About 10 minutes after I went to bed; a presence was standing beside my bed. It was in the form of someone that I was living with and I was able to squeak out..."So and so, what are you doing in my room?" Then I screamed out, "Get out of here, and get out of here, now!"The presence left by going out underneath my door.The next day I had to be at a piano competition; the people there knew that I was a nervous wreck about something. When I went back home; I found out that two other incidences happened to two other people that I was living with at the time. One of those people was the same one who I thought was in my room that night. Her experience was that she felt someone or something under her bed and she screamed and woke her nextdoor neighbor up for security. It did not last very long.The third person had her door ajar with a heavy brick and her bedroom window was fully closed; so no wind was available. She popped up when her door swung wide open and the brick was thrown across the room and then as fast as her door swung open; her door swung shut as well!!!! That night the three of us had to get together and share our stories with each other and we were not allowed to tell anyone else that we lived with for fear of scaring someone! I wanted to leave that place immediately but I did not. However, I did wind up leaving about a month later. But not because of this!Story 2)While living in that place, I was always granted knowledge of when someone in my family or friends, died. When I would call home that night, my mom always could tell me who it was. I also refuse to sing the song, "Amazing Grace," (except in church) because everytime I do, someone that I know dies. This has never failed! I am very aware of it now; and sometimes the song slips out of my mouth and I can't help it - and sure enough - someone I know dies! Quite morbid, wouldn't you say?Story 3) This is only a portion of a much more detailed experience that my husband and I shared.We took a weekend to go spend time with one of my close friends in his house; somewhere in Arkansas.The first night we were there my husband and my male friend had a few beers to drink and my husband is not used to drinking by this time; so he was pretty lit (very drunk for him). I had taken off and went upstairs to the loft and I had been gone awhile. I came down and my friend said, "Did you experience anything when you went up into the loft?" I said, "Yes, it was quite wonderful." I also had many questions for him; but he would not let me ask them at that time. He wanted my husband to go up to the loft as well. Remember now, my husband is quite drunk by this time and needed help going up the stairs to the loft! (This IS a true story!) My friend and I left him alone up in the loft and we went back downstairs and then we talked about what I experienced up there! This too was a religious experience of sorts but of the good kind; but still very mysterious as well! Sometime later, my husband came barreling down the stairs and he was 'stone-cold sober'!!!!!!!!! It was like he had never taken a drink that whole night!We then all shared what had happened up there and then we all went to bed! I cannot reveal the actual events that took place there; that is for the book! It could surely be a bestseller; one that I think we will have to write soon!But you see, I gave you a sample of evil; and I gave you a sample of good!!!!!!!I promise you, good always outweighs evil!What happened in that one weekend is lasting a lifetime for us!Remember what I said before: from the movie about St. Bernadette: "For those who believe, no explanation is necessary; for those who do not believe, no explanation is possible!"Signed,AMFAnd what is all the hype about Star Wars for? I just don't get it!By the way, I got to see the Star Wars movie in a box; ready to be shipped back to California. It is a heavily guarded movie to say the least!All comments are welcome! Flux, I definitely want to hear your side of things!AMF


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## Spirit (May 9, 1999)

AMF: LMAO = Laughing my ass off. That's pretty scary about what happened to you. I wish you could tell us (I'm very curious), but I'll respect your privacy. I take it you're a writer? You mentioned writing a book, and hoping it'll be a best seller (in your own words). I wish you the best!


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## Anxious (Apr 28, 1999)

AMF - that is quite interesting... I know this has nothing to do with you or your story but I'll tell you this because it is kind of odd. I know someone (and her husband) that saw a vision. They are reluctant to talk about it so that is all I know. But they changed their entire lives around because of this vision, so I imagine it must've been quite something... They sold their beautiful house, moved into a basement suite under a real estate office, and gave all their money to their place of worship. Now, I'm not saying that it a bad thing, not in itself, but then they proceeded to alienate friends by saying rude things - one friend of mine had a baby born to her with only one complete arm - this newly religious person hurt her terribly by saying she must have done something to deserve this to happen. Just things like that - they were so religious they couldn't even carry on a normal conversation. They became, in short, very weird. I've always wondered what they saw that night - was it good or bad to affect them that way...? Odd. Anyway, they finally emerged from their "trance", whatever you'd call it and became just like ordinary people again. It was weird...


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## Guest (May 18, 1999)

Sherlock-I've had 2 paranormal experiences.One when I was still living in my parents home. It was a semi attached house that was originally bought by my grandparents.It was my grandfathers pride and joy and he took great care of it.My father, on the other hand, was very busy so keeping up with the house was not a priority. Every night when I went to sleep,I would hear walking through the wall adjoining the house next door or so I thought.An old woman lived there and I assumed it was her walking. This went on for almost all my childhood and teen years.When the old woman died, the walking continued.I tried not to notice and didn't say anything to anybody about it. Finally, my father fixed up the house and low and behold the walking stopped! One day while taking to my father about how nice the house looked, I said under my breath,"Well at least the walking stopped". My father heard and he turned and said amazed "You heard it too?". We figured out it was my grandfather(who died in the house incidently).He could not rest with the way the house looked.Once the house was fixed ,he was happy! The second experience was not a good one and frightened me half to death.I'll give you the short version. I was sleeping and all of a sudden I heard terrible growling.I woke up(fully)and the growling continued.I felt four points of pressure on my back as if someone was pinning me down with their hands and knees I thought maybe my husband was kidding around so I turned to look at him and he was fast asleep.Then I thought well maybe it's the dog,but he was not on the bed.All this time the growling continued as did the pressure.I felt myself starting to panic and then it just stopped.Not a nice experience.------------------ It's the soul afraid of dying that never learns to live.


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## Anxious (Apr 28, 1999)

deet - a truly frightening experience!! "growling" - how awful...!Has anyone here experienced this:I thought I was the only one who'd felt this before - our son, his girlfriend and their newborn baby were just over visiting, and since the baby was sleeping so peacefully, we got to talking about the supernatural. Our son happened to mention how on two separate occasions he was in a state of drowsiness, but awake, suddenly he was unable to move, he tried and tried to move and couldn't, and he was absolutely terrified that if he didn't move, something was going to happen to him! This lasted a short time and then went away. I have had this happen to me too, twice. Now, keep in mind that when I nap in the afternoon occasionally, I am always in a semi-awake drowsy state - I never sleep deeply, probably conditioning from having had so many children, one always wants to be alert to any possible problems... anyway, two times, a very similar thing happened to me - again, me too - I couldn't move, my eyes were fluttering - trying in vain to keep them open, but it felt as though a force of some kind was keeping me from being able to open them, it was a feeling that "something" threatening was either right with me or coming fast, I was absolutely terrified. And I was numb and tingling all over. It was totally terrifying! Then it passed... I was alone in the house both times this happened.Has this happened to anyone else here?


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

It sounds like what you all are describing can be explained in terms of normal human experience with a little fantasy and misperception thrown in. No need to resort to supernatural explanations when the obvious will do.Anxious, your experience was clearly a case of sleep paralysis. Thatï¿½s probably normal for many millions of people.


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## SteveE (Jan 7, 1999)

Well flux, I can't say you've convinced that my dream was a coincidence...especially because as you put it "the particulars" are tough to explain, but the bedroom in my old home was awfully chilly...still is actually.I guess it seems odd to me that a child would dream something like that...although I had my share of toy airplanes & spaceships.The key thing in your response that none of us can explain though is that you mentioned that my mind "picked" something to dream about...we still don't know for certain where dreams come from or what purpose they serve, yet they do occur. This gets me thinking about your review of the Gershon book (which I have not read, but apparently should look into)...I suppose IBS could be something like that...sort-of a nightmare experience of our "second brain."


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## Guest (May 18, 1999)

Flux--What the devil is hypnagogic phenomenon?Give me a break.Some of these "explanations" that scientists come up with are just as cryptic and esoteric as you might think a "psychic" explanation is.Psychic energy is something even psychologists and psychiatrists talk about.You know--feelings, anxiety, trauma, depression, overriding emotions, all those are part of it. Oh I guess you might not know about that.The stuff that might give you bad dreams. When your brain is firing synapses madly.Clairvoyance--well there have been many many documented cases of this. Can't "prove" that to you. Can you prove that it doesn't happen?All you've been able to show is that a seemingly clairvoyant experience might be a coincidence. But that's far from proof.That 6% figure has been floating around for years in the popular media. That's what they always say. If I am wrong, correct me. What is the % now? We all know that we don't use all of the brain for thinking.Your "science" is so bogus sometimes, Flux.You don't even seem to be a logical thinker, you just use half baked science as a pose totop people, because most people shut up when you bring science into the argument. Sorry, a number puncher does not even a theorist make.I don't care if you call these occurrences science, or ghosts, or evil, or psychic energy, or simply the unexplained paranormal,but this red herring of "Is it real? Can you touch it? Can you power a flashlight with it?" is so ridiculously 1950's. Obviously things do exist that we can't touch or measure--don't insult my intelligence.If I pass by a mirror at an angle in which I can't see my reflection, but at the same moment someone else looks at the mirror and sees my reflection, does the reflection exist or not?


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## Guest (May 18, 1999)

Oh here's another humdinger.I've been to a alternative health therapist who says she's noticed a lot of times people with IBS are frustrated psychics.Thought everyone should know that.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

Steve, while it is difficult to explain the particulars, it doesn't necessarily follow that psychic powers must be necessary for it to have happened. Dogwood, you can read about hypnagogic phenonmenon at watarts.uwaterloo.ca/~acheyne/S_P.html You can also read about sleep paralysis, the normal behavior that some people think is evidence of something paranormal. As for the supposed "psychic enery", if you are referring to the electrical impulses in the nerves, well, wait, they are *electrical* as in battery kind of electricity. Does this mean that batteries are psychic?







As for clairvoyance, there are anecdotal reports of it just as described here, but nothing has been documented as an actual clairvoyant event. It is probably not possible to proof that it hasn't happened, but no one has proven that it has.Yeah, the 6%, 10% or whatever figure has been floated around for a long time. I don't know where it comes from nor do I how anyone could calculate it. I suspect that if you used just 6% of your brain, you'd have a heartbeat and you'd breathe, but that's about it.If there is something that we can't measure, either directly or indirectly, then it is outside science's realm (e.g, God). Of course, if is outside the realm of science, our senses couldn't detect it either.I don't know understand your reference to the 1950s.Regarding the statement,_If I pass by a mirror at an angle in which I can't see my reflection, but at the same moment someone else looks at the mirror and sees my reflection, does the reflection exist or not?_Yes, your reflection exists, but how is the relevant to the discussion of things that can't be measured any any means.[This message has been edited by flux (edited 05-18-99).]


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## Missycat (Apr 3, 1999)

Okay - I can't believe I forgot this, but here goes:When I first moved to California 12 years ago, I could predict earthquakes. There was about a year to 18 months when I would have a dream about an earthquake and it would happen the next day, or I would all of a sudden think - "there's going to be an earthquake tomorrow" - and there was! I've since lost that "ability." I chalk it up to science - I think that for some reason that I don't understand, if certain people that spend most of their lives where earthquakes just don't happen move to a seismically-active region, somehow their "radar" kicks in and they can somehow sense earthquakes. As they acclimate, they lose this ability. It's been long said that animals go nuts just before a quake, but you wouldn't know it by looking at my cats! They have no clue.I've heard of others that moved to California that could do this for a time, and then it "went away." Interesting, huh? The biggest problem was that I just couldn't tell how big the earthquakes were going to be!







Now I know there will be skeptics - not very many people believe me, but you know what? I don't care and I won't respond, so you skeptics might as well save your fingers the exercise of typing your opinions.------------------Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.*Missycat*


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## Lena (Jan 7, 1999)

Every time I read a new post to this subject I have to keep looking over my shoulder while sitting at my computer. I'm about ready to move the table so I can sit in a corner and keep an eye on everything in the room.Lena


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

Seismologists try pretty hard to come up with a way to predict Earthquakes. They use seismographs for plotting the motions of Earth and they are not doing too well. Perhaps their problem is that they don't have a scientific approach. They should be screening people, because some of them have a hidden Earthquake sense about them. Perhaps this should be presented at the next International Geophysical Year meeting.


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## kaj (Mar 8, 1999)

Hi Flux, I am going to use my "psychic" abilities to describe you. Brown hair, brown eyes, clean shaven, nose might be a little big, glasses, slighty thin. Close to your mom, your mom and dad are not married, they might be divorced, but I think your dad may have passed away when you were young. You have no brothers, but you do have sisters, I believe 2, both older. I think 1 is married and 1 is not. You don't dress up much, mostly t shirts. You have never been married, no kids, and currently do not have a girlfriend. You do have a female friend as a companion. You also don't drink or smoke. Okay, let me know how I did. kaj


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## Guest (May 18, 1999)

kaj.I will help you !!!


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## Guest (May 18, 1999)

Flux--I guess you could say that the battery is psychic. In the sense that psychic energy is similar to electrical energy. I don't know the science, but I believe there is a connection between the two.I said that we only use 6% of our brains for thinking, meaning cognitive thinking.You said that if science can't measure something, then it doesn't exist. No way!You have no proof for that. Scientists can not measure the universe, but it certainly exists. But beyond that, there are things that exist that we cannot measure. That's my opinion. Don't be juvenile and try to disprove me--it's an opinion, not a theorem.I say "50's type thinking" meaning super-rational, non-humanist thinking that so dominated our nation's behaviour at the time.You know, Bikin Atoll, Tuskegee, Dow Chemical. You know, ends justify the means type stuff. I used the relection anecdote as a metaphor for the idea that one person can see something that another cannot. It does happen.


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## Spirit (May 9, 1999)

Kaj: How is HELL could you guess all THAT??? Guess you must be psychic. LOL!DJ: LMAO!!!! GOOD ONE!!!Flux: You're OBVIOUSLY not liked (or wanted) here. Why don't you just keep your 'scientific" opinions to yourself, and let us talk about this in peace?? And by the way, In the words of Dogwood "A number puncher does not even a theorist make". I agree with his other statement too: Your scientific facts DOES seem BOGUS!!! [This message has been edited by Spirit (edited 05-18-99).]


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

OK, so inanimate objects like batteries are psychic. Anybody know what Duracell had predicted as the winner of basketball playoffs?Maybe Eveready can be predict the next San Franciso big one. Perhaps those there who have lost that "ability" should stock up on some D cells.I'm pretty sure that a lot more than 6% of the brain lights up to do most activities. _You said that if science can't measure something, then it doesn't exist. No way!_Nope, I didn't say that. I said that science can only study what it can measure. Other things can still exist. We would just have no way to know that that they do.The universe, which is regularly studied, does, indeed, exist.Thinking in human super-rational? Actually, around this time, people started believing in UFOs as space-aliens from another world. Also, why does rational thinking have to be inherently non-humanist? People who donate to charities must be out of their minds._I used the relection anecdote as a metaphor for the idea that one person can see something that another cannot. It does happen._Yes, one person who can see psychic abilities are obviously just inventions of imagination errors in judgement and another who cannot.[This message has been edited by flux (edited 05-18-99).]


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## Spirit (May 9, 1999)

You know, Flux.. Sometimes I think that sticking a blowtorch up my butt would be less painful than listning to your psycho-babble. No pun intended. And might I ask you a question? You have this very 'convenient' way of avoiding answering questions that we here are all asking you. Why is that Flux? A scientific answer, please.


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## Guest (May 18, 1999)

Fluxina--Yep, that crazy Duracell. They don't call it the copper top battery for nothing.(You're such an easy mark!)Yes, the universe is studied a lot, but it can't be measured--it can't be studied in its entirety, at least not yet. The point is that there are lots of mysteries out there in this big wide universe, so why try to pretend that we know the absolute, super-rational answer to everything? Again, spiritual, psychic answers to problems are available to people who believe in them, and there is nothing you can prove or disprove about that Flux, sorry. I don't know, you tell me why super-rationalists can't be humanists at the same time...? Maybe because science doesn't offer much in that area. The search for ultimate, physical truth on this plain is is a great thing, but limited. However, there are those of us with neurotic, Western-style, dualistic patterns of thinking who cannot seem to accept that. Again, instances likeTuskegee, Auschwitz, animal vivisection and countless other horrors attest to this.Sorry, I couldn't understand what you said about the mirror anecdote. Once again your syntax is atrocious. Perhaps an English course is needed, and less QuattroPro?


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## Anxious (Apr 28, 1999)

I'm LMAO here!!!!!! DJ - super!!! flux - you are amazing! A "battery" - psychic??!!!LMAO!!!!!! "fluxina"???!!! LMAO!!!


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## Guest (May 19, 1999)

Flux:How did KAJ do?And you did not respond to my stories.I have some more but they have to wait.AMF


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## bloomers (Apr 19, 1999)

I've had a few experiences of my own that range from a psychic telling me that I have stomach problems - boy did she hit that nail on the head - to having extremely vivid dreams - you know the ones that stay with you all day and then come true.But my first experience was when I was 4. My beloved grandmother had just died. I was not allowed to go the funeral. I got up early one morning and was fiddling with an old radio (probably would be considered an antique these days) and felt her standing behind me. She had bare feet and was smiling down at me. When I turned around she was gone. I ran and told my mom about it and she, half asleep, told me to go back to bed. Years later when I mentioned it to her again she admitted that many members of our family had felt her presence. I like to think she came to say goodby to me.I also saw my grey angora cat after he died - just his tail. I was laying on the couch sick and glanced at the patio door (you actually had to step down to the stoop and then again to the ground once you walked out that door.) I watched his grey furry tail go by. I was in too great a state of shock to believe what I was seeing and wish to this day I had jumped up and run to the door faster. By the time I did go check it out the cat was gone. I lived in a very small town and there were no other grey angora cats around there. That cat had always layed with me when I was ill. Wierd huh?


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## kaj (Mar 8, 1999)

Awe come on Flux, Let me know how I did. I picked you because you have really never disclosed any personal information about yourself. You don't have to now, but let me know how close I was. I think I was very close!!! kaj


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## Wes and Tracy (Apr 14, 1999)

Everyone, (the following post contains opinions expressed solely by the poster and do not neccesarily reflect those of the broadcast network)







I'm not one to side with flux, but I too don't believe in ghosts. I think that when you die, you die. It means your dead and where do you go, who cares, cause your dead. Am I going to haunt people, how, I'm dead. Bury me, burn me, throw me out to sea, recycle what's useful, I don't care, obviously I'm done with it. I can't say as I've ever had an experience that couldn't be explained somehow, and not by stretching the extremes of science. My mother was(and is) very caught up in the paranormal, so I've been around a lot of "hocus pocus" (no offence to the wicca amongst us) but to me it's never been real. Maybe flux you could address something that caught my eye about someone else post. There seems to be a lot of reports about people being "connected" in a sense to family members and loved ones over great distances. Do you think this is possible? And I'll tell you why I ask, several weeks ago, in the middle of the night, about 2 am (CMT) Tracy wakes up crying from her sleep, she had a dream her mom needed her. She was wide awake, one of those times when you're so awake you have to get out of bed because your not going back to sleep. So we're up and having a hot chocolate, talking and seeing what's on the T.V. in the wee hours of the morning, and about an hour later her sister in law called from FLorida to say that her mother had a heart attack around four am (EST) and that if she wanted to see her again she better come right away. I think this is a very common occurence and was wondering if "Science" had anything to say about it. Personally here's what I think. I think that everyone has an energy about them. This isn't paranormal it's a scientific fact that all matter is made up of energy, all atoms are in motion and that produces energy. I think that without being aware of it we familiarize ourselves with the energy patterns of others. I think that in extreme situations we can be sensitive to those energies and that we pick up on energy fluctuations. This may be why a mother can be so aware of a child or may be why spouses can finish each others thoughts. Of course this is just a hypothesis but it works for me. Wes------------------Only those who risk going too far, will ever know how far they can go.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

It is not up to science to disprove supernatural powers. Rather it is up to those believe it to present science with evidence that can verify it. So far everyone has come up short.I don't understand how science has anything to do with the references you describe.The mirror response..Yes, one person who can see psychic abilities that are obviously just inventions of imagination errors in judgement and another person who cannot.Better?AMF, I did respond to your posts: just a typical account of a strange happening. Where the proof in this? At the very least I was expecting a videotape.Kaj, I think you have to do a controlled experiment in order to be considered. Randi runs one as I described below. There is a million dollars in for you if you actually have psychic powers you can demonstrate.Wes, I don't think people can be connected in the way you are describing at least not a macroscopic level. People do not have energy patterns, unless you can consider doing a thermogram (mapping the body's heat) with an infrared camera. I think you'll find that humans all relatively similar and would be hard to tell apart even two unrelated people at any one time, let alone twins. Heat also quickly spreads into the matter surrounding the person and probably doesn't get very far. Besides, how we are going to sense these energy patterns, beyond cold or hot or some visual image that is reach of our eyes.


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## Spirit (May 9, 1999)

Alright, Flux. I'll post it again!:You know, Flux.. Sometimes I think that sticking a blowtorch up my butt would be less painful than listning to your psycho-babble. No pun intended. And might I ask you a question? You have this very 'convenient' way of avoiding answering questions that we here are all asking you. Why is that Flux? A scientific answer, please.Are you gonna respond THIS time???


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## Wes and Tracy (Apr 14, 1999)

Science says it's impossible for the bumblebee to fly, and yet he does, because he doesn't know it's not possible.And heat isn't the only energy a person carries with them, there is also a certain amount of static electric energy, as well as bio-electric energies.And your responce about how it's up to the believers to prove it to science and not science to prove it to believers is hogwash. There are many facets of life that are self evident and yet still un "provable" by science. I love my parents, can science prove that? I don't like the taste of tomatoes, can science prove that.There were a lot of scientist who made fun of these two guys who came up with a crazy notion that they could build a machine that would carry them through the air, and yet the wright brothers flew. Science believed right up until 60 years ago that the smallest thing in existance was the atom, until somebody split it. Don't sit there and spout off about science being the end all answer, because obviously it isn't.------------------Only those who risk going too far, will ever know how far they can go.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

Bio-electric energy? What the devil is that? And how is static electricity relevant? Let's see, I can feel the static energy of the the carpet in the bedroom at 1200 Main Street in Philadelphia, PA is giving off a lot of electrons. Must need a deep cleaning.It is not an issue of what is or isn't possible, but an issue of what events are actually taking place. Believers say paranormal events happen, but there is *no evidence* that they do, except what is in heads of the believers. That's a pretty big difference between a bumblebee or airplane that actually flies.


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## Wes and Tracy (Apr 14, 1999)

Bio-electic energy is a term used to describe the natural electrical impulses of the body. These include synapse functions in the brain, nerve endings and spinal cord transmissions, and a variety of other current based impulses that occur in living creatures.And maybe there isn't a camera that can take a picture of a persons "charge" at this point in time, but that doesn't mean that a person doesn't have an energy about them, it just means we haven't figured a way to map it yet. A century ago they couldn't track a persons thermal levels either, things change.I'm not saying that if I cast a spell I can ride a broom around either, I'm just saying that there doesn't necessarily have to be an answer for everything. I feel like I'm straddling a fence and pissing everyone off at the same time here. For some reason I can't put into words what it is I'm trying to say today, maybe I'll try tomorrow.Wes------------------Only those who risk going too far, will ever know how far they can go.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

There is no bio-electric energy per se. The electrical impulses of the nerves are most closely related to battery potentials. How is that supernatural?As far "hidden energy" is concerned, it comes down the issue of it being there. Where is the evidence? There may very well be an invisible angel hanging over your one shoulder and devil on the other. But until they produce measurable effects, they have no significance to us or to science.The bottom line is the wholly illogical to presuppose the existence of hidden energy to explain phenonomenon which have no demonstrable effects.


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## Spirit (May 9, 1999)

Flux: Can you explain to me please (in your own words) what static electricity is? You know.. When you go to touch, let's say a door knob. Your finger gets about a centimeter away (or so.. it's not important..) and you see that little blue flash. ZAP! You feel it, and it stings for a second or so. I'm just curious how you're going to deny that as energy.To quote you: "Believers say paranormal events happen, but there is no evidence that they do, except what is in heads of the believers." WHAT IN HELL DO YOU THINK PARANORMAL MEANS???? And might I ask... HUH???


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

Why do you need a definition of static electricity? I think Wes has proposed that humans can sense the ï¿½net static chargeï¿½ of another individual (should one become so charged) to learn something about them. By analogy, this ability should extend to carpets since they can gain a net static charge as well. Therefore, psychic individuals should be able to tell when carpets in various homes of the world need deep cleaning simply by sensing the carpetsï¿½ current charged status.At least thatï¿½s what I think he was getting at.Are you trying now to say that paranormal events are by definition outside the real world, that they exist somewhere between our brains and the real world? If so, that shuts them out of testability and observability, e.g, God.Except that ainï¿½t the case. The movements of the ouija board are actual movements in the real world, and they can easibly be tested and the source of their motion easily ascribed entirely the ideomotor effect (unconsious movement by the members participating in the experience). However, once the peopleï¿½s extremities are off the table, the ouija board doesnï¿½t move and there are no demonstrable effects, no paranormal activity, that is.


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## Spirit (May 9, 1999)

Flux. I don't need an explanation. I know what static electricity is. I may be wrong (and I don't want to read all your posts to find out), but I vaguely remember you saying something about people not being able to conduct energy. I don't know what kind of evergy you were refering to, but whatever. I was just curious as to what your explanation might be.And getting on the topic of God, I'm guessing you're not a believer? And if you are a believer (let's just say whatever you believe in - God, or otherwise), how would you feel if somebody kept trying to tell you that your beliefs didn't exist? (or tried to give a scientific proof to them?)


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## Guest (May 20, 1999)

Hi, just read alot of this. Not sure what Ibelieve about all of this. I've never hada paranormal experience. I don't believe in the loch ness monster, but for about a yearafter my mother died I felt that she was withme or actually inside of me sometimes, reading my thoughts. I think it was probably a psychological need to have her there, but it felt very real. I do respect everyone's beliefs here though. I once went to a psyhicwith friends in the city, and one of my friends became very abnoxious, because shedidn't like her palm reading. The woman toldher she was going to die at 78, and alot ofnegative things were going to happen to her.While we were waiting for another friend andher daughter to come out, we actually got thrown out of the place by the psychic's husband. I thought he was going to beat us up, or have a coronary. It was very funny. She did tell me that I was a teacher though,which was maybe coincidence maybe not, I wasteaching at that time in the city.ellie.


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## Spirit (May 9, 1999)

ellie: Thank you for what you said about respecting someone's beliefs. Maybe that comment should have been directed to Flux?


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## Guest (May 20, 1999)

No one ever really dies. I've seen someone who was very close to me after their death, saw him and heard his footsteps while he was walking and then saw him disappear, just like that. Also, near Christmas I saw a ham radio set he put together at the age of thirteen turn on all by itself. I mean the knob which takes a small effort to turn did so and the set clicked on the thing lit up and a Jewish religious choir came on. Nifty, huh? I should add that my sister was passing my room at the exact time this occured, my door was wide open. She did an about face, stopped at my door and asked, "Did you turn that radio on?" And I said, "Nope, came on all by itself."







[This message has been edited by Ken (edited 05-20-99).]


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## Guest (May 22, 1999)

I think it's interesting that several people have made statements to the effect of feeling the presence of a departed loved one, and that it "almost felt real". I think it's significant because it shows a common belief in our culture that for something to be real, it has to be seen or touched our measured.Think about it--there are lots of things in our lives that are certainly real, but can't be touched or seen, per se. Feelings, thoughts, dreams, images in your mind are all examples. What if there really existed another level of communication that we had access to, that had no discernible means of proof of its existence, except that it does exist? Like, you have to experience it to know it exists...? What if there were such a thing that we had all but wiped out of our psyches due to lack of use and discouragement by scientific skeptics?Another question--how come the "scientific method" is the only means considered valid in appraising the world around us? Could it possible that there are other viable ways to look at the world?


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## Isabella (Feb 21, 2005)

I've got a few ghost stories to tell. When I was around 9 years old, one night, the neighborhood children, my mom, sis, and another man went to the gravesite of a person that you could see her ghost. You had to walk down this trail to get to it. My mom, sis and other kids walked down the trail. And my friend's father stayed at his car. My bestfriend, another boy and I were the last in line. The trail crooked to the right and just as we three were walking towards the right, we heard something behind us. There she was - the ghost - She went down the trail to our left. It's hard to explain, but I can still remember it to this day and that has been almost 30 years ago. She drifted by in a swooshing manner, about one foot off the ground. She had on a blue hoop dress, like "Gone with the Wind" days dress. (She had actually been dead for well over a hundred years) To describe her is hard, it was not like seeing a human, but like a formation that you could see through. The others that were ahead of us on the trail heard us scream and we ran back to the cars. My friends father said he saw her too, he was the only adult that did. He said he was going to come and scare us with a sheet over his head, but as he headed down the trail, he saw her and ran back to the car. I could tell more bizarre incidents about this ghost, but I do want to tell about another strange thing. The same best friend that was with me during the above story, and I went to Florida and rented a trailor. We had picked up her children that had been staying with their grandparents. The first night at the trailor, we didn't unpack. We went to bed and I was sleeping in the back bed room (very small) and I had closed the door. I kept hearing what I thought was my friend walking around and down the hall. Finally, I reached for the door and opened and saw my friend standing at her doorway. I asked what she was doing and she said she was going to ask me the same thing. I said did you hear someone walking and she said yes. We went into the living room and we started walking towards the bedrooms and we saw the black smokey sphere come from the hall and went into the bathroom and disappeared. A year later, my friend and her husband went on vacation to Florida. And as they were approaching the same street (that the trailor that we stayed in)someone ran a stop sign and almost was a fatal accident. Strange to be so far from home and coincidence of a terrible accident happening on the ghostly(lol) street. Also, a friend of mine that lived in Hollywood, CA lived in several apartments that were haunted. The last one was haunted by old film actress Mae West. She had a lot of stories to tell.


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## Lefty (May 18, 1999)

This could go on forever, and satisfy no one. Because what we have here is the ages old arguement of faith vs. science.St. Thomas Aquinas, much more an authority than I (and flux?) wrote in "Faith and Reason" what may show how this argument can go on and on:"All science is derived from self-evident and therefor seen principles; and so all objects of science must be, in a fashion, seen.""But, that which is the object of faith...is also deemd impossible to be otherwise; and the reason why science and faith cannot be about the same object is because the object of science is something seen, whereas the object of faith is the unseen."Such as Wes said - I know I love my mother, but I cannot prove it. Buying her flowers does not prove it, it only proves I have money, time, will... She has to have faith that I love her. Science will never prove it.Again, St. T.A. "Since, therefor, all things that can be known by natural reason are an object of science, it seems that there is no need to believe what can be proved by natural reason. It is necessary for man to receive by faith not only things which are above reason, but also those which can be known by reason in order that man may arrive more quickly to the knowledge of the divine truth."He ends Question 2: Whether it is necessary to believe those things which can be proved by natural reason? by saying "The inquiry of natural reason does not suffice mankind for the knowledge of divine truths, even those that can be proved by reason; so it is not superfluous if these be believed. Science and faith cannot be in the same object and about the same subject." If some people want to have faith in their perceived experiences, why does another person have to prove that they really couldn't have happened?Ciest la vie. (sorry for the spelling- my French is rusty)


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## Sherlock (May 14, 1999)

This is getting HUGE! Wes, no offense taken by this wiccan.







Hocus-pocus, however, I believe belongs in Hollywood. It does no justice for the religion.Flux, I have seen the planchette of a ouija board move all by itself...fly across a room and smash into a wall, even. More than once I've witnessed it move when no one was anywhere near it. Mine is made of solid oak...to heavy to be blown by a random breeze. And since you've told us telekinesis is non-existent as well....guess I dreamed it along with all the others present in the room?







Lefty, you're close...







...it's "c'est la vie" (for future reference)







------------------An' it harm none, do what thou wilt.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

Nah, somebody probably threw it but that you didn't see.


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## Sherlock (May 14, 1999)

*LOL* You make me laugh, Flux...hadn't thought of that reply...you're good! *L*------------------An' it harm none, do what thou wilt.


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## Guest (May 22, 1999)

Why would anyone insist that things we have seen with our own eyes are strictly matters of faith? Also, feelings, thoughts, dreams and images are extremely real to the person experiencing them.


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## Spirit (May 9, 1999)

THANK YOU, KEN!!!


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## Lefty (May 18, 1999)

Ken - good question, but the main point is that you had the experience, then decided to have the faith in that it did happen, could happen again, and could be happenning to others. In other words, you don't dismiss or discount it in others because you can't experience it or prove it.I bet flux, and others, have had experiences that they could not explain, and decide to dismiss it because they couldn't prove it, or make it happen again, or experience it again, or explain it. The validity (or proof) in science comes in its repeatability. A groundbreaking scientific study is not considered valid until it is repeated (usually by someone else) with the same results. Faith doesn't need that. That's the difference.And the interesting thing about faith - it has roots in every fiber of your being, religious or not.[This message has been edited by Lefty (edited 05-22-99).]


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

Ken you are correct that what people experience, feelings, thoughts, dreams and images are real to them (amply demonstrated by the anecdotes above). That is one of the reasons why people believe in them, even though they ain't actually real.


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## Guest (May 23, 1999)

Lefty: I am so glad that you quoted a lot of material from Saint Thomas Aquinas. He is one of my favorite saints. And everything that you quoted from him makes absolutely perfect sense.Flux: How can you dispute Ken seeing his Ouija fly? That game is too damn spooky for me and I refuse to play it anymore (I did when I was a kid; it was too weird; there were lots of us playing in the same room; I don't EVER want to play it again!).Back to Lefty: Lefty, did you know this about St. TA? A former chaplain of mine (I used to live in the convent) who is a virtual authority on the works of Thomas Aquinas said this to me, one day: "You remind me a lot of Thomas Aquinas, because you two were and are intelligent AND neither one of you EVER got or gets a joke!!!! People laughed at him all the time. People just get disgusted with you everytime you tell me, 'I don't get it Father; can you explain it to me?'Talk about one frustrated young woman at the time because of this (I still don't get most jokes! LOL!). But it was kind of nice for my chaplain to compare me to one of our Fathers of the Church!Good job, Lefty!AMF


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## Guest (May 23, 1999)

Sorry, Ken, I meant Sherlock. Sherlock saw the Ouija board fly. And yes, this thread is so long that I can't remember who said what. May I please be excused?AMF


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

I didnï¿½t dispute that the planchette (thatï¿½s the pointer thingy) of the ouija board was flying, only how it got into the air. It seemed obvious that somebody threw it and Sherlock didnï¿½t see that. Not spooky, just deceptive.







Watch out AMF, your mouse might start moving all by itself [insert Twilight Zone here].[This message has been edited by flux (edited 05-22-99).]


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## Spirit (May 9, 1999)

Flux: "It seemed obvious that somebody threw it and Sherlock didnï¿½t see that". HOW does it seem obvious to you? Were you there? Did you see someone throw it? Sherlock never said anything about who was sitting where. It is VERY possible that no one was even NEAR the board, let alone close enough to throw it without anyone seeing. You shouldn't speculate without knowing all the facts. I've had some experiences with a ouiji board when I was all alone. I know that I didn't create what happened, and there was no one else there, so maybe the ghost threw it??? Please... You make me laugh, Flux. You know nothing on the subject, so maybe you should give up while you're ahead... Not that you ARE ahead... just a figure of speech.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

I gave Sherlock the benefit of the doubt, it really moved and Sherlock wasn't wasn't seeing things either, so it is reasonable to assume somebody else moved it.In your situation, you say you were the only one there, so if it really moved, it is * obvious that you moved it*.


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## Spirit (May 9, 1999)

Flux: Don't be an idiot. I WAS the only one there, and it SCARED THE #### OUT OF ME!!! So why is it OBVIOUS to you that I moved it? Get a grip...PS. Who said the ouiji board moved??? PPS. I think I worded myself wrong. When I said "...so maybe the ghost threw it?" I was referring to Sherlocks experience. Also, you speak of giving Sherlock the benefit of the doubt by saying something WAS seen, so why would you then dismiss that, and then tell me that it WAS OBVIOUS that I 'moved' it, but maybe it was not obvious that someone with Sherlock moved it. The only difference is there was only one person in the room. ME. And more then one with Sherlock. Wouldn't it be true then that in BOTH cases someone moved it? And again I ask... Where is that obvious???[This message has been edited by Spirit (edited 05-22-99).]


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

Of course, that would scare anybody. Itï¿½s an unconscious act. You didnï¿½t know that you were the one who moved it. I already mentioned that this phenomenon is called the ideomotor effect. Itï¿½s happened to many people and itï¿½s quite normal.


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## Spirit (May 9, 1999)

Again I ask... How do you know it moved??? For your information it DIDN'T move. Something else happened. But I'm not going to give you the satisfaction of denying that too, by telling you what happened. "Itï¿½s an unconscious act. You didnï¿½t know that you were the one who moved it. I already mentioned that this phenomenon is called the ideomotor effect."What's the ideomotor effect? Is that when in idiot motors on about something then moves something with their mind?? Hee hee!! LOL! I'm kidding, Flux. I'd have to lookup on that one. Never heard of it, and I always dismiss your explanations as a bunch of BS. I don't doubt that this exists, but isn't what you're talking about called telekenisis? And if this is so, then wouldn't that explain most paranormal phenomenon? And just to be clear, are you admitting to the fact that you believe you can move things with your mind?????


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

*Objects just donï¿½t get up and move themselves*So that should leave two possibilities. 1) The object never moved. Sherlock and yourself simply believe it had moved. I am granting that didnï¿½t happen. The object really moved, 2) So then *somebody* had to move it.In Sherlockï¿½s case, I figure that somebody in the group was playing around trying to deceive the others, a prank. I figure that because Sherlock said the planchette flew a distance as opposed to simply moving from one letter to another while somebody was touching it.In your case, I assuming it was the latter situation and you moved it.


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## Spirit (May 9, 1999)

That's fine for you to assume that. It's fair. But I tell you again... The ouiji board never moved (it didn't get thrown). If you must know, it had to do with someone who was no where near my house, and a banana peel. And no, they didn't slip. YOU figure THAT one out! And yes, the ouiji board had EVERYTHING to do with it! It scared me so much, I gave away my board.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

You reply so quickly that my answers are out of sync.You are correct, I donï¿½t know exactly what happened, that the planchette actually moved. I donï¿½t know if these events took place. I am just granting that they did.Read about the ideomotor effect at http://wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us/~btcarrol/ske.../ideomotor.html Since you are physically moving the object with your hand even though it is unconsiously, it is not just being moved with your mind (telekinesis). As far that is concerned, it is just a parlor trick, as in spoon-bending. See http://skepdic.com/kinesis.html


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

There isnï¿½t enough information for me to guess a rational explanation, but Iï¿½d reckon a bet there is one. And since youï¿½ve given away your board, you can play with the one above. Hold onto that mouse!


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## Spirit (May 9, 1999)

Flux: Here's what I think of you:You come off an obnoxious, know-it-all who feels the need to explain himself over and over again, so that people will think you are smart, therefore, people would like you. I don't think your self esteem is very high, and you look forward to spazzing at people because it makes you feel strong. I would guess that not too many people get along well with you, and your life is very repetitive (you have the same routine every day).Now don't get me wrong. I think you're a very intellegent person. You speak like someone who's got a lot of knowledge (and maybe some brains), and you use this knowledge to feel intellectually superior to everyone else here. Nobody here wants to hear scientific explanations to thier experiences. We're just here to share our own personal experiences, and if you don't agree... Whatever. To hell with you then. If you read the posts, nobody agrees with what you say (I'm sure most of us just laugh.. I know I do), and even though you sometimes make sense, we don't need to hear it over and over. Maybe you should just tone down on the negativity and give SOME of us the benefit of the doubt.Then again, maybe you're just a pseudo-intellectually intelligent neo maxi zoom dweebie, who CAN'T give it to us without putting your two cents in. And that's okay too... Just know that most of us here don't care to hear your 'scientific answers' and just read over them. (sorry... My friend made me write this... No, Actually... I just thought it was DAMN funny! She's a little tipsy.. No offence) So on that note, please don't be offended by anything I said. You ARE good for a laugh, and if you'd rather come off as what I've described you to be... that's okay. See you on the BB!Spirit.PS. God bless... That is... If there IS a God... LOL!


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## Sherlock (May 14, 1999)

Spirit, you're sweet to defend my irrational visions while I've been away. *L* I have experienced this on more than one occasion, and no, there wasn't anyone near the board. I'm not going to argue the point...it's the whole singing pig thing...







Flux chooses not to believe in the things I do, and vice-versa. That's fine with me..although his version of a ouija layout is not quite correct, but I suppose it would work...oops...that's assuming they "work" at all, right?Flux, how 'bout we just agree to disagree?







------------------An' it harm none, do what thou wilt.


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## ERIN (Dec 8, 2004)

I was just wondering if anyone here can feel vibes?? I mean, can you just tell if someone is mad or sad. I can usually tell if someone is a nice person or not just my shaking their hand or talking to them long enough. I can feel when a cop is up ahead (Saved my ass once or twice!) or when an animal is about to run across the road. Also, I wanted to know if anyone has noticed a super strong connection they have with their mother? I can tell if she wants me to call her and we'll be 20 min away from each other, and I know when she's the one calling without looking on the caller ID. When I was 11 I broke my arm at the end of the block, and the second my house came into view my mom flew out of the house knowing that I had hurt myself.(The door had been closed so I know she couldn't have herd me crying.)She said she could just feel that I was hurt. And, last one I promise, I pulled a ligament in my left knee in 8th grade and when the doctor examined it (by GRINDING his thumb on my knee) My mom and I both jumped and gasped at the same time and she said she felt pain in her left knee too!!! The Doctor look at us like we were insane. (sorry it's so wordy, I love the paranormal even though it scares the #### out of me!)







ErinP.s. My mom SWEARS that her and my Aunt Sandy (her sister) saw a UFO in Santa Fe!


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

Some of what you describe is probably selective memory. You recall when you are correct, so it seems like you can make predictions.As for the UFO, maybe a star?


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## ERIN (Dec 8, 2004)

Sorry flux,No star hovers 100 ft. off the ground, has multicolored flasing lights and slowly moves around a building and is gone in the blink of an eye. Even you have to admit a star is a LAME excuse! Besides, my mom and aunt wern't the only ones who saw it!Oh, and I don't have selective memory!!! My mother and I are very close and we have a special bond between us! How do you expalin when she just knew when I was hurt???







Erin


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

How you can be sure it was 100ft off the ground? How do you know it was a real object for that matter and not, for example, a reflection of police car lights against the building?







Selective memory is just part of human nature. It really sounds like a coincidence you just happened to remember.


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## Guest (May 24, 1999)

couldn't sleep. pain again. flux, you have very nice graphics, but this one is giving mea headache!


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## Guest (May 24, 1999)

Isabella--I am interested in your Mae West ghost stories and any other Hollywood ghost stories. I am trying to write a screenplay on Jayne Mansfield and her ghost, so this kind of thing interests me.I am at dogwoodie###hotmail.com.Thanks.


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## Anxious (Apr 28, 1999)

Erin - I know someone who "swears" they saw a UFO too! Scarey... flux - you must spend HOURS on the internet to come up with such a wealth of info (and other things, all the the graphics..)...


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## Spirit (May 9, 1999)

This post is getting FAR too big! *L*!Sherlock: No prob! That's really scary...Erin: Definately. 99% of the time I know when there's a cop ahead. I do the same thing with my sister. Once I was in the living room watching tv and she banged her knee in her bedroom. I jumped up holding my knee screaming in pain saying "WHAT THE HELL IS THAT???" Within about 15 minues, I had a HUGE welt with a big black bruise in the exact spot that she hit her knee. The wierd thing is that she didn't have a mark. This has happened a few times during out childhoods. Not so much now (we don't get along.. haven't seen her in a while), but when we were kids.. yes. Also there were times when something sad would happen to me, and she'd be at home (or somewhere where I'm not) and she would BURT into tears for no reason whatsoever. I remember one occasion where a good friend of mine was found dead, and she had no way of knowing. At the same time I found out (practically to the minute), she felt my sadness and cried uncontrollably for hours). Another thing (I'm on a role here, aren't I) this has happened noth with her, and an ex-boyfriend of mine. When I get my period, they got ALL the symptoms! Tender breast, cramps, mood swings, etc.. It was really odd. Flux: Just so you know, I don't have selective memory (as you like to put it). I remember most of the times when these "coincidences" didn't happen, as well as the times they did. To me that's just another excuse not to believe... ANYTHING can be excused as a 'coincidence'.Spirit.PS. I agree with Erin. No star hovers 100 ft. off the ground, has multicolored flasing lights and slowly moves around a building and is gone in the blink of an eye. And as for you 'reflection' theory, lights don't reflect off of the sky, then dissapear in the blink of an eye... Or do they???


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## Lefty (May 18, 1999)

Hey - this is getting too long, but obviously we are enjoying carrying on this banter...







.How about we move this and post a new topic at the meeting place and call it "A Haunting Experience continued" or something like that? This is taking forever to download, but I'm addicted you youall's replies!flux - you do keep us grounded. Thank you for not being intimidated and reminding us we are not all alike... We wouldn't have posts like this if we were!------P.S. People take different roads seeking fulfillment and happiness. Just because they're not your road doesn't mean they have gotten lost.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

I donï¿½t know about not having selective memory. Youï¿½d have to remember an awful lot and memory is not only selective, but also it gets molded over time. Selective memory seems to be behind stories about full moons ( http://weber.u.washington.edu/~chudler/moon.html Not everything is a coincidence, but between the two possibilities: coincidence vs supernatural capability. I give coincidence 2:1 odds, supernatural: 1 trillion to one.Lights reflecting off the sky? Who said that were in the sky, not the clouds or against the building itself? Was it really measured to be 100 foot off the ground? How does one measure that? Police lights, if were that, can be turned off in the blink of an eye.


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## Spirit (May 9, 1999)

Flux: To quote Erin: "moves around a building" . AROUND. Not on, above, or in the sky."Was it really measured to be 100 foot off the ground?" Nope. How is that possible? "How does one measure that?" You tell me..."Police lights, if were that, can be turned off in the blink of an eye." No kidding! But do they look like a three dimentional object hovering around a building? I think not. Reflections look MUCH different than a 3D object. "I donï¿½t know about not having selective memory. Youï¿½d have to remember an awful lot and memory is not only selective, but also it gets molded over time." Very true. But 'yYour interpretation of 'selective memory' is remembering only the strange phenomenon that happens to us. Remembering ONLY the times when we had 'pshychic experiences', or when we believe that something has happened that had no explanation. NOT remembering all the other times that there WERE no coincidences, or the times when we had normal experiences just like everybody else (meaning nothing strange). I remember MANY times when strange things didn't happen, as opposed to when they did. To me, this is not selective memory. Hmmm... I'm not sure if I worded myself correctly, but I'm sure you get the idea. And might I ask, how would you explain what happened with me and my sister? (the bruised knee). Are you sugjesting that I hit my knee at the EXACT same time that she hit hers, and do not remember it? Or maybe I mysteriously popped a blood vessel for NO reason, thus causing my knee to swell and briuse at the same moment when she hit hers (not to mention the same sopt). Would THIS be selective memory? And what about all the other stuff I (along with everybody here) was talking about? I'd like to hear your explanation to that please...Spirit.


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## Spirit (May 9, 1999)

I'm going to agree with lefty. I'll start another post titled "A haunting experience CONT...". This one is getting WAY too long, and takes forever to load. Hope to see you there!Spirit.


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