# A question about killing bacterial overgrowth in the small bowel



## Green_Life (Jan 16, 2012)

For years I've suffered with two main symptoms: excessive flatulence and mild constipation. I've recently found out about SIBO and I need some advice.

In order to get a prescription of antibiotics from my doctor, I first need to see a specialist. Not only that, but I've read that hydrogen breath tests are not 100% reliable. A person can have SIBO and still test negative. Therefore, I want to treat myself for SIBO even though I don't know 100% if I have it. I'm not waiting around for 6 months (maybe longer) to see a specialist. I want to get a move on. But here's my problem:

I've heard herbal antibiotics (garlic, ginger etc) are good for killing bad bacteria, but not the good bacteria. If I have an overgrowth of good bacteria then I can't see herbal antibiotics doing much good. According to my research, excessive flatulence is caused by undigested food entering the large bowel and fermenting. So, for two days I have been on a raw food diet (green smoothies). I have took apple cider vinegar with each meal, as well as digestive enzymes. The vinegar and digestive enzymes will help my food to digest better. I've also been eating ginger and raw garlic. After two days my symptoms improved. I had better digestion and less wind. But still, not a massive improvement, but an improvement nonetheless. I also plan to take L-Glutamine to help heal my gut.

But again, if the overgrowth of bacteria in my small bowel is good bacteria, then what can I do to help kill it? I'm not waiting around 6-12 months to see a specialist to give me a prescription, and the hydrogen breath test isn't 100% effective anyway. Are there any herbal antibiotics that will kill good bacteria as well?

Thanks


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## rmiller1985 (Sep 13, 2011)

Hi Green_Life,

I believe that I had SIBO. You're right that the hydrogen breath test isn't 100% reliable: I saw mine and believed it was positive, my gastroenterologist thought it was negative but there was enough of an increase that he showed it to a colleague, and his colleague thought it was borderline.

The self-treatment plan that I eventually took on was the Specific Carbohydrate Diet. It has helped tremendously. I'd say at this point that my symptoms (a substantial amount of gas and constant loose stools) are about 95% resolved.

The reason that the SCD helps with SIBO is that it starves the bacteria. It's more of a siege than a pitched battle.  It's not a quick fix: I'm five months in, and I don't think I'll be able to go off the diet anytime soon. But it has worked wonders for me.

I wouldn't worry about good vs. bad in the way that it sounds like you are. If you have an overgrowth of bacteria in your small intestine, they are bad bacteria, even if they'd be good in your large intestine. It's sort of like weeds: a weed isn't an inherently bad plant, it's just a plant that's growing where you don't want it to.

I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have about the SCD if that's the approach you decide to take.

Cheers,

Rich


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## Green_Life (Jan 16, 2012)

rmiller1985 said:


> Hi Green_Life,
> 
> I believe that I had SIBO. You're right that the hydrogen breath test isn't 100% reliable: I saw mine and believed it was positive, my gastroenterologist thought it was negative but there was enough of an increase that he showed it to a colleague, and his colleague thought it was borderline.
> 
> ...


Hi Rich

I, too, have tried a specific carbohydrate diet, but without meat and dairy. I was able to reduce my symptoms by at least 80% But my diet has to be things like cucumber, tomato, peppers, celery, fennel, lettuce, cabbage, carrots, sprouts, nuts, avocado etc, and a little bit of sweet fruit. But sticking to this diet is incredibly challenging. You have to be really desperate to stay on this diet long term. I've only ever managed a few days. Sure, my symptoms were reduced by at least 80% but I felt terrible on such a strict diet: massive food cravings and lots of hunger.

But I'm confused. I'm told that SIBO is an overgrowth of bacteria in the small bowel and that even good bacteria will give you symptoms. But fruits and vegetables are suppose to feed and help produce good bacteria. How can you starve the good bacteria on such a healthy diet when these foods actually feed the good bacteria?

I've heard from a highly intelligent health expert that when you eat unnatural foods, the bad bacteria (the bad guys) are woken up and they begin to eat the junk that you put in your body. This is what causes the gas. But if you eat natural foods then your symptoms are greatly reduced. Could it be that SIBO is actually an overgrowth of bad bacteria and it's the bad bacteria that causes the symptoms. If SIBO was caused by too much GOOD bacteria then surely a low carb diet wouldn't make a difference?

Thanks for your reply

Stephen


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## Green_Life (Jan 16, 2012)




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## rmiller1985 (Sep 13, 2011)

Hi Stephen,

When you mention "a specific carbohydrate diet" I'm not sure if you're referring to THE Specific Carbohydrate Diet, as outlined by Elaine Gottschall in her book, "Breaking the Vicious Cycle."

When I first tried the SCD, I was a vegetarian, and consuming very little dairy, as I believed I was lactose-intolerant (I now believe I was simply complex-carbohydrate-intolerant). I stayed on the diet for 10 days, and then gave up, as I wasn't seeing any progress (and was seemingly always hungry, as you mentioned as well). Several months later, I went back to eating meat so that I could try the diet in earnest; this was not an easy decision to make, as I'd been a vegetarian for over 20 years (there's more on my feelings about all that in the early posts in my blog). I suppose I was "desperate" to make such a decision; daily loose stools/diarrhea will do that to you.  In any case, I did the diet pretty much as described by Elaine in her book, with some help from the guys at scdlifestyle.com.

As you mentioned, it has been "incredibly challenging." I saw "results" fairly quickly, but it was certainly not "all positive, all the time." The first couple of months were a roller coaster, with highs of more or less "normal" BMs and lows of diarrhea, often more watery than before I started the diet. But I stuck with it, and it has paid off. Right now, my BMs are pretty normal, all the time. I'll be surprised if there isn't another flare or three of my symptoms, but if I continue in the "two steps forward, one step back" mode without moving to "one step forward, two steps back," I'll be happy.

One thing I learned after starting the diet is that a few days isn't nearly enough time to expect to see all your symptoms clear up; it may happen, but it's the exception, not the rule. If your gut is damaged (as it is assumed to be if you're undertaking the SCD), it has most likely been damaged for a long time, and reversing that damage will take a long time as well. First you have to remove the ongoing cause of the damage -- in your case, bacterial overgrowth. Then the tissues need a chance to heal, which rarely happens overnight. So seeing changes in bowel habits quickly is common, but seeing everything "fixed" within a week or two is very rare. In addition, the lifecycle of the bacteria in your gut is much longer than a few days.

In terms of SIBO, I'm no expert. But I think the description of the bacteria eating unnatural vs. natural foods is too simplistic. The problem as I understand it isn't that bad bacteria eat unnatural foods and good bacteria eat natural foods, the problem is that all bacteria that are in the wrong place eat whatever food you haven't digested yet. Again, I'm no expert. Perhaps http://www.siboinfo.com would provide more complete and detailed information.

Cheers,

Rich


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