# do NOT eat margarine!



## john5571 (Nov 21, 2000)

I have UC and IBS. I posted this in the UC room and thought you might find it interesting: Margarine contains trans-fatty acids (TFA's), these are unnatural fats that PROMOTE INFLAMMATION! These fats are also found in safflower oil, corn oil, sesame oil and vegetable shortening. Also they promote cancer and heart disease. Instead eat butter..or even better yet...olive oil! Olive oil actually REDUCES INFLAMMATION by producing anti-inflammatory hormones that have beneficial results on inflamed tissues. Believe me guys...I saw a naturopathic doctor in December 2000, completely changed my diet and I'm 100% better. Before that I was seriously considering an operation. Thebleeding has stopped for my UC. and I'm having normal stools for the 1st time in 20 years. I'm doing a lot of other thingsincluding taking Omega 3 oil capsules, protein powder with bioactive immunoglobulins, multi-vitamins (a pure kind), and of course no wheat, no dairy, no alcohol, no caffeine, and NO MARGARINE! What I do is mix 1/2 cup olive oil and 1/2 cupbutter in the food processor and it makes a very healthy alternative. Also I'm drinking soy milk and avoiding red meat. Also I'm not having as much sugar. The naturopathic doctor's advice has helped but also I'm getting a lot of good information fromthe book "Eating Well for Optimum Health" by Andrew Weil, M.D. He is that gray-bearded guy that gives talks on PBS...he is really good. I'm not completely cured...yet (I still have to go 3-5 times in the morning), but at least what's coming out looks normal! No bleeding or weird residue. I am determined to get completely well on this diet. E-mail me if you have any questions, I'd be glad to try to help. john5571###aol.com -JOHN


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## JenS (Dec 18, 2000)

I love Dr. Weil!!!


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## AnneMarie (Dec 4, 2000)

I heard a doctor on the radio once who said you should never eat margarine because it is a synthetic fat that our bodies cannot break down. He said butter is more natural and therefore is better. Ever since that, I've always used butter and I prefer the taste of it anyway.


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## Maria Z (Feb 20, 2001)

Hi,But doesn't the dairy in the butter cause more D?Thanks.Maria Z


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## JennT (Jul 17, 2000)

I can't have butter at all. Both lactose intolerant AND allergic to both major proteins in milk. So I do use margarine, but only a couple of times a week, and I use the stuff without any whey in it, which is generally the better stuff for you, anyway. I use olive oil for cooking and extra light olive oil for baking.------------------*JennT*


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## Krissy (Jul 6, 2000)

Hi John, tell me? what kind of protein powder did you buy without whey or milk in it? i am lactose intolorant and need to gain some weight! Thanks!







Krissy


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## Guest (Mar 15, 2001)

Here's another alternative to margarine that a nutritionist told me about. You melt a few sticks of butter, then let it sit for awhile. All the dairy part (which is white) sinks to the bottom. If some stays on top, I just spoon it off. Throw away the white part, and save the yellow part in a container. It doesn't need to be refrigerated.


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## john5571 (Nov 21, 2000)

Krissy, Even though I avoid all diary & eggs, this protein powder I take is made with whey. I'm not really sure about whey...but it doesn't seem to bother me. It's called Bio Pure Protein (Bioactive Pure Whey Protein with Natural Immunoglobulins). The whey in it is supposed to be free from disease, injected hormones, hyperimmunization,genetic alteration and environmental contamination. In other words..its really pure. I get it from my naturopathic Dr. and its pretty expensive. It is for weight gain and tastes great with soy milk.


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

When whey is purified it usually removes enough of the lactose so that it shouldn't be bothersome (there may be a stray moleculse or two, but most people can handle much more than that), as long as lactose is the only problem you have with dairy.Some people are also allergic to the various protiens in milk, in that case the whey would be a problem. Look for a soy-based protein powder. They are becoming fairly common as alot of woman are trying to increase soy in the diet, even most of the drug stores I go to carry them now when a couple of years ago you had to go to the health food store for them. Heck Slim-Fast now has a soy-based drink as well. If you add it to your meals rather than replacing the meals with it you could use that. K.------------------I have no financial, academic, or any other stake in any commercial product mentioned by me.My story and what worked for me in greatly easing my IBS: http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/Forum17/HTML/000015.html


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## Krissy (Jul 6, 2000)

John & K, thanks! i was told by my health food store owner if i am lactose intol. to beware of whey,thats why i asked.On my Leap tests i showed up reactive to cows milk,i wonder if this powder would bother me? Oh shoot! i have to check,but i think soy was on the list as a no no too! rats! Krissy


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

I'd check and see what they meant by cow's milk, but if it was specific for cow's milk I bet it's one of the proteins. The proteins are different for different animals, so sometimes, as long as lactose isn't the problem, people who can't have cow's milk can have goat's milk.Most of the protein powders are either soy or whey based, at least that I have seen.What you may need to do is make up one of your own things using like rice milk or goats milk, some fruit that you like and maybe some pasturized egg substitute (that way you don't risk the salmonella in the raw egg). Raw egg sounds gross, but if it's in the mixture it isn't noticable. You might want to look up some smoothie recipies and see if there is something you can concoct that doesn't hit one of the trigger foods.Also for weight gain if you can add some seeds or nuts into your diet as snacks, they are calorie dense and also pretty nutritious. Also if you can sneak some olive oil into the things you eat. (extra pure virgin has a pretty light taste). Like drizzle it over stuff. Often you can add in quite a few calories without getting anything being too greasy or oily. Like put a teaspoon into the water you cook rice in. The rice will be a little less sticky, but it would be hard to notice the difference.K.------------------I have no financial, academic, or any other stake in any commercial product mentioned by me.My story and what worked for me in greatly easing my IBS: http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/Forum17/HTML/000015.html


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## Krissy (Jul 6, 2000)

Hi Kmottus, sheesh i just got to reading the post.Thanks for the info.







I really want to gain weight,but i worry about certain things,lactose,and now i have HDL & LDL levels i am NOT happy with,but my dr says they aren't that bad,but they need work,i wish i knew if they were really bad or what!so i can't just load up on anything. John, where did you get this powder? i wonder if GNC or Vitamin shop has it so i can look at it,i have both stores close here.Thanks for all the help,it is well appreciated!







Krissy


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## stinky too (May 21, 1999)

About soy, they make food products out of it, but they also make plastic from soy beans,







I guess it is all in how you process it.....







------------------Prayer doesn't change God , it changes the one who prays..C type, with G


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

GNC usually has a pretty good selection of assorted protein and weightgain type powders so that would be a pretty good place to check out.Trying to gain weight can be just as hard a losing weight so I understand the struggle. One of the reasons I suggest olive oil as diets that include that tend to help people get their HDL and LDL's in a better range. It's one of the oils that seems to be really beneficial in lots of ways. The oils in nuts and seeds also seem to be of the kind that help with heart health as well.Good luck!K.------------------I have no financial, academic, or any other stake in any commercial product mentioned by me.My story and what worked for me in greatly easing my IBS: http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/Forum17/HTML/000015.html


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## HipJan (Apr 9, 1999)

john, I agree with you about not eating margerine. used to be, that's all I'd use (in cooking and everywhere). nowadays, I never have even a smidgeon of the stuff!sorry if I may be duplicating here (haven't had a chance to read everything): also check the ingredients labels on packaged foods. in the same fashion as margerine, hydrogenated or partially hydrogenated is another big no-no.yup, olive oil for me (not so great on toast, though!), even the occasional butter over margerine. I agree that nuts are good for us to eat, too - but especially almonds and walnuts.


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## Guest (Mar 17, 2001)

In Canada we are able to purchase a marjarine called Becel which is the only one that has no trans fatty acids. I eat that with no problem whatsoever.


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

I use Smart balance margerine available here in the US. No trans-fatty acids in it. Does have whey.K.------------------I have no financial, academic, or any other stake in any commercial product mentioned by me.My story and what worked for me in greatly easing my IBS: http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/Forum17/HTML/000015.html


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

KRISSY FIRST: WARNING.......I e-mailed you too so you see one place or the other...







Do NOT consume any protein-powder preparations until you FAX me or your dietician a copy of the ingredients first...this is a must due to the diversity of things you are reactive to. As you know yuo are also reactive strongly to soy (I think you remembered). Keep that laminated card on your person...maybe punch a hole...put a chain through it and put it around your neck. You are one of the more reactive people and must be 100% alert at all times to stay asymptomatic....Tsk tsk ----------------------------some other items of interest to the thread from the discussion----------------------------"I love Dr. Weil!!!"[Does his wife know?]----------------------------"But doesn't the dairy in the butter cause more D?"[Butter is a mixture of triglycerides of several different fatty acids, which can vary, so no single chemical structure can be "drawn". Most "animal fats" are composed primarily of triglycerides. The glycerides break down over time and release the fatty acids. The butyric acid in butter is the cause of the nasty smell of "rancid butter". The caproic acid also smells. Triglycerides are "fats" which are called esters, and are formed from glycerol with 3 fatty acids linked to them. The color of butter comes from carotene. The more common fatty acids in butter and there approximate % of the composition are (rounded off): oleic acid 32%myristioc acid 20%palmitic acid 15%stearic acid 15%lauric acid 6%butyric acid 3%caproic acid 2%capric acid 1.5%caprylic acid 0.8 %linoleic acid 0.2%linolenic acid 0.1%So intolerance to cow's milk fractions is not synonymous with intolerance to the ingredients of butter...have to challenge it separately]----------------------------"I'm not really sure about whey...but it doesn't seem to bother me." [below]"..in that case the whey would be a problem." [below]"On my Leap tests i showed up reactive to cows milk,i wonder if this powder would bother me?" [SEE ABOVE, GIRL!]"I'd check and see what they meant by cow's milk, .." [cows' milk]"ï¿½but if it was specific for cow's milk I bet it's one of the proteins." [below...any of the milk fractions alone, or in combination, can be responsible for a reaction][Cheese and milk and lactose and milk-extracts in processed products drive people nuts! (Nut reactivity...another subject) It is hard to understand what is in what and what we are reactive to and not. SOME GENERALITIES ABOUT MILK VS CHEESE REACTIVITY (Butter was described above)As has been described before, Milk intolerance can be simple "lactose intolerance" as we all know because of simple enzyme deficiency which prevents the proper breakdown of the milk sugar lactose. If a person has lactose intolerance from enzyme deficiency (see other posts about which supplement is better) the problem can be mostly corrected with enzyme supplement since it is dose-dependent. it is unusual for a person to be so lactose intolerant that a small amount cannot be digested adequately, or corrected with the supplement. Milk also has proteins in it which the body can have an allergy to, or a "hypersensitivity reaction" of several different "pathways" (non-"allergy" intolerances or (occasionally) both.So you can have plenty of enzymes to break down milk sugar in your gut and still have it [cow milk] aggravate and precipitate "IBS symptoms" if you are sensitive to casein, whey, beta lactoglobulin, alpha lactalbumin. These are still in milk even when the lactose is reduced or removed, and some (esp. casein) are extracted and used in many many products (sodium caseinate...read labels and see its everywhere including "non dairy creamer" no less). When they make cheese the basic age old process is to curdle milk with bacteria (natural or added to speed things up) and separate the curd from the whey. The starter bacteria use up about 10% of the lactose while they manufacture the lactic acid which curdles the milk. Rennet is also added to speed things up. As the curd-casein-is collected the whey is removed, suspended in most of the water from the milk, as is the rest of the lactose, the beta lactoglobulin and the alpha lactalbumin. Unfortunately Every cheese is made different depending upon specifics like whether rennet is added alone or if pepsin is also added to it, different bacteria in the milk from different kinds of cows in different areas react with the milk different to make different nuances asscoiated with a cheese from that place, different bacteria may intentionally be added, how it is aged, and all sorts of stuff like that (I'm no cheese maker...but you get the idea). Each cheese type and even individual cheese has the potential for reactivity. But there are some that are so distinct that they are examined separately when evaluating reactivity.The point is to think of what is there to react to and what is not. So, with most of the cheese we are eating here in the US and UK and Canada, we are eating mostly casein and all the other milk constituents are gone. So unless a true allergy is present, where you react strongly to a very minute amount of one of the proteins, many people who are intolerant of whole milk can tolerate real cheese and real butter as the constituents are different. And some people can be intolerant of butter but consume other cow-milk derived products and so forth.So this is why you can usually eat most cheeses unless you are reactive to something else...like casein! Several immunologists have also pointed out at conferences and in my personal discussion with them to remember that the cow is not different than the human when it comes to substances ingested being passed-on in the milk.Depending upon where the cow came from, her diet, and the overall environmental conditions of her existence, some say there are anywhere from 60 to over 200 other possible allergens in the cows milk, passed over from what the cow ingests. So when evaluating processed foods and the significance of its dairy constituent content, those are some general distinctions that can be helpful. Becasue of what cow milk is, its complexity, there is a lot of confusion on how to approach it dietarily.]KRISSY if you gotta have dairy...you can have BLUE CHEESE if you want [test negative]. Yum-yum yum...you can have cottage cheese too [negative]. Gramma used to spread it on toast but you cannot have wheat...MILLET toast is good....You are negative to goats milk so you can have goat milk products but NO SOY products of any kind. And you are OK with natural yogurt....check the ingredients that you are eating yogurt and fruit not chemical yogurt]Eat Well. Think Well. Be Well.MNL________________ www.leapalergy.com


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## Krissy (Jul 6, 2000)

OOOOO!!!! Krissy just loves blue cheese! LOL


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## JennT (Jul 17, 2000)

MikeNL:Can you explain to me (no actually, can you do a quick summary in words of three syllables or less!) why I may be reactive to butter? We've determined that I'm lactose intolerant and allergic (stuffy nose, puffy eyes, wheezing) to casein and whey. I miss cheese, and the goat stuff is NOT the same!Anyway, you stated above that butter doesn't usually have any of those three items, so why does it upset my stomach in a matter of minutes? Is it simply an intolerance (naybe the iffy gall-bladder) to animal fats? I seem to do okay with margarine - I eat the stuff with no trans-fatties and no hydronation, so I guess it's not technically margarine; it's a "spread". I do okay with fat from veggies, nuts, poultry, or fish, but any beef or pork I eat has to be very lean for me to tolerate it. So maybe it's an animal fat problem with the butter?On the upside, my husband made beef stew last night that I tolerated well... as long as I don't eat bowl after bowl of the stuff, I'll do fine!------------------*JennT*


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## atp (Jan 18, 2001)

I just wanted to add some more milk alternatives to the mix: Almond milk, which I haven't tried, but I've heard isn't bad, and works similar to rice milk for cooking. I think it may have a slightly sweet taste. But I use vanilla rice milk to cook with, and that slight taste doesn't bother me.I believe they also make some cheese with sheep milk, if that is tolerable to you. I personally like feta cheese (made with goat milk).I've made yummy smoothies before with rice milk. I just kinda throw stuff in til it seems good. Some ingredients can include: Chocolate rice milk (I think you can get carob rice milk, if chocolate is a no-no, or use plain or vanilla rice milk, or almond milk, and add cocoa or carob powder), bananas, strawberries, I used vanilla soy powder, but not ok for Krissy, and I forget what else I threw in. Whatever fruit was around, I think. Oranges and grapefruits aren't the best with chocolate, unless you're talking a very small amount.MNL--You mentioned rennet as an ingredient. Am I remembering correctly that that is the digestive enzymes element of cheese, and can come from animal intestines or plant sources? I know there is some component that can come from plant or animal. Do sensitivities vary depending on the source?I wish more manufacturers specified where it came from. As a vegetarian, I would rather eat cheese with plant sources for that one ingredient, but I try to look the other way when I'm not sure. It is such as small compenent, and I love cheese. Don't eat too much of it anymore tho







Krissy, I'm glad YOU like blue cheese. Me, blue cheese and cottage cheese, YUCK! I like my mozzerella and muenster and gouda and havarti and chedder and american and brie... <drool>I can't imagine cutting that much stuff from my diet







My GI doc thinks people often attribute attacks to food when it was really coincidental. Some things, though, the gut just does NOT tolerate. My only SURE trigger is ice cream, the richer and creamier, the more horrible the attack. And I've got a bunch of foods that I can tolerate on a good GI day, but are dangerous on a bad GI day, like mild Mexican food (beans). And I've also got a few foods that are almost always safe, like applesauce and Chocolate Pecan Pie Luna Bars.


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## Krissy (Jul 6, 2000)

ATP, thankyou so very much







it was sweet of you to give me some of your "secret recipes" LOL! well at the moment my blender has had a hissy fit! but i plan on replacing it.I have been using rice milk for my cereal,i like the taste.I only seen the almond milk once in a store i go to. As soon as i replace the blender,i am going to try to make one of these smoothies,they sound really good! Thanks







Krissy


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## atp (Jan 18, 2001)

LOL...my "secret recipe"!I've actually only done that a couple of times, for vegetarian potlucks, since I'm not much of a cook. Very easy to make, and most people didn't bring desert-y stuff. The first smoothie I made was a real hodge-podge of stuff we had around. Probably threw a few too many things in the mix. I think it had banana, grapes, orange, grapefruit, pear, maybe a little orange juice, vanilla soy powder, and chocolate rice milk. Some of the flavors kind of clashed. One of my housemates LOVED it thought and drank a TON of it. He was not a picky eater, but he did like it. I thought it was just OK. Not the greatest. Keep texture in mind. If you don't mind a sort of gritty texture, it's not too big of a deal. But pears make things a little gritty, not too bad though. And citrus fruit has the less juicy parts that surround the juicy parts...when ground up in a blender, that's not as good.I don't have any of the ingredients for this right now, but I'm thinking strawberry (lots) and bananas and jsut a little bit of pear, the canned kind so they're softer and something chocolately or vanilla if you're not the chocolate nut I am would be good. Haven't tried it yet, but it sounds good. Can you tell I'm hungry, but haven't eaten? I'm craving all these foods that I don't have! (Hormones







)I do my best "cooking" when I can just throw things in...stir fry, etc. Always a little different!


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

Sadly, No task in the subject area of food allergies and food sensitivities is more difficult to elucidate than the milk of the infernal cow and the products manufactured therefrom. So from that viewpoint I hate cow effluvia.That being said, let us try to answer the following further questions in a straightforward way that technically does not really exist...------------------------------------------JENN asks: "Can you explain to me (no actually, can you do a quick summary in words of three syllables or less!) why I may be reactive to butter? "[Tough challenge....but what she writes afterwards helps a lot for her situation]"We've determined that I'm lactose intolerant and allergic (stuffy nose, puffy eyes, wheezing) to casein and whey. I miss cheese, and the goat stuff is NOT the same!"[You said a mouthful-of-disgusting-goat cheese-there for sure, and added Clue #1][continuing...]"...why does it upset my stomach in a matter of minutes? Is it simply an intolerance (naybe the iffy gall-bladder) to animal fats? "[Clue #2][and further on]"...I seem to do okay with margarine - I eat the stuff with no trans-fatties and no hydronation, so I guess it's not technically margarine; it's a "spread". I do okay with fat from veggies, nuts, poultry, or fish, but any beef or pork I eat has to be very lean for me to tolerate it. So maybe it's an animal fat problem with the butter?"[Clue #4. Lets see if it was Mr. Diddle in The Broom Closet with an Axe] ______________________First unhappy fact about butter, cheese, milk: Milk, cheeses, and butter have to all be evaluated separately for response. Whole milk must be evaluAted first since it is the root substances from which the others are processed. IF you are reactive to milk (allergic reaction or non-allergic immune response or milk sugar intolerance from low enzyme) the stringer the milk reaction (ie: such as an allergic reaction) the more likely you are to be reactive to cheese and butter. This is especially true if the person has an "immunoglobulin" specific to a milk protein (IgE, IgG) signifying one or two types of "antigen-allergen" reactions.The less reactive (need a larger dose to get a response) the less likely the co-reaction with cheese and butter. A few people are even reactive to BUTTER but NOT MILK.Sometimes, even if you can drink milk like a calf you can react to cheeses because they contain differing chemicals produced by the bacteria or molds that are used to make each distinct type of cheese.Lets stick with Jenns BUTTER problem first.To understand the possibilities for butter making one sick, look at butter production and content in a broader sense. Commercial butter is 80-85% made up of the milk fats I listed above. That is why this part of butter is called "butterfat" you see on dairy products all the time. It is a mixture of triglycerides (lipids, fats).The fatty acid content of each varies with the diet of the animal or animals the milk used to make it comes from. In olden days before th Big War all butter was made strictly from cream. The cream was separated at the farm and the butter factory received either fresh or sour cream. If it had soured they would neutralize it with sodium hydroxide before churning it. When the transportation and storage of milk improved over the last 40 years they now ship whole milk to the plant where it is separated...hence the name "sweet cream butter" on the packages....the butter was not made from soured then neutralized cream.There are some exceptions where butter is made from the whey cream that is a byproduct of cheese making but most butter is made from fresh whole milk. Anyway you could not ell the difference between the two, neither would the composition be any different.Now butter is produced when the "cream" from unhomogenized milk is broken up by churning. This process causes granules of butterfat to coalesce. They stick together and separate from the pure liquid phase of the emulsion which is then drained off as buttermilk. Ta da.They then wash the globs of butterfat with clean water which removes MOST of the residual milk proteins and casein that are almost completely shed when the emulsion is separated. When the butter is finished being kneaded and compressed what is also in it is maybe 15% water and 1% residual milk solids other than the fats (some tiny amount of the curd remains). Remember from cheese making, the curd is casein protein as the other milk proteins and milk sugar are carried off in the main liquid.MOSTLY. In each process a small small amount of the other milk proteins can remain...like an impurity so to speak. Oh yeah salt is added to (unless unsalted butter is desired).NOTE ABOUT CLARIFIED BUTTER: Some people in the thread have descibed the making of clarified butter or "ghee" as it is called in India. When you melt butter the clear liquid that rises to the top can be separated from the curdly solids in the bottom. The stuff at the bottom supports bacterial growth thus ranciditiy much better than the clarified portion so it can be stored longer. Side bar is that the Ghee in India often includes mixing in milkfat from other animals after separation.JENN has touched on several possible sources of reactivity to the contents of butter. One of the most obvious is that if a person has a true "allergy" to milk proteins, the small residual in the butter can be enough to trigger an allergic response. Ig[x] allergies can be trigered by the minutest portion of an allergen that gets into the body, and a person like Jenn who has confirmed true ALLERGIES to milk protein fractions (as she says she is confirmed Allergic to whey, well, thats what is in whey...milk proteins) who reacts IMMEDIATELY to the ingestion of butter is most likely just showing their allergic reaction.The fact that these impurities remain universally in the butter prepared commerically was confirmed independently back in 1996 when some Japanese allergists isolated the realtively small amounts of milk proteins from commercial butter. Another interesting sidebar is I remember reading a study recently where it was found that the fats in margarines tended to sensitize kids (IgE allergy development) more compared to butter. And since boys are more prone to atopy it showed up more frequently in boys.JENN ALSO NOTED another mechanism....the response to the fats. This is a non-allergic response of the small bowel immune system and/or hormones associated with the postprandial (post eating) response.Some studies have shown not only that "high fat" meals in IBS patients can produce an exaggerated gastrocolonic reflex, and implicate mediators of the mast cells of the mucosa and white blood cells in the reaction (they release chemicals like histamine and serotonin and others which will immediately stimulate the nerves and muscles), other studies have also shown separately elevated levels of hormones associated with "gall bladder and pancreas" stimulation as well as abnormal levels of the hormones which activate the small bowel contraction pattern known as the migrating motor complex.It is well established that these animal fats are known to aggravate the reactive bowel, but so many different markers have been independently found it is so far unclear if there is one unified pathway linking the gut immune responses and the hormonal responses, or if these represent separate sub-populations of differing mechanisms.So it is also possible for Jenn to have ONE, TWO or even THREE OR MORE forms of intolerance to the elements (both residual proteins and the triglycerides). See, there is no simple explanation...but if we break it all down step by step it will illustrate why each substance has to be looked at separately and why they can be co-morbid sometimes and sometimes not.---------------------------------------ATP WRITES: "You mentioned rennet as an ingredient. Am I remembering correctly that that is the digestive enzymes element of cheese, and can come from animal intestines or plant sources? I know there is some component that can come from plant or animal. Do sensitivities vary depending on the source?"[Actually the rennet can come from 3 sources. As described bfore to make cheese the the milk has to be separated into curds and whey...just ask Miss Muffet.Rennet is added after bacteria and enzymes of the manufacturers preference have been allowed to do their work. It is a dried extract of rennin, and enzyme which makes the coagulation progress. Traditionally it is animal, extracted from the belly lining of a suckling animal either a calf or a lamb. Nearly all European cheeses are still made this way.Industry now can make bacteria and fungi produce rennet through a fermentation process I know exists but have not studied. This is the cheapest hence now most common source in the US. But nt exclusive.For lactovegeterians, some cheese is made from plant enzymes which are extracted and combined into a brew which acts like rennet. This is the least common method.***For a complete chart of the different types of cheeses and what rennet source is used (animal, vegetable or microbial) to make that kind of cheese, this is a distributor which lists them all for you and the list is representative of the cheese industry as a whole, so yuo can, at least here, know what the rennet source is: http://www.traderjoes.com/tj/products/broc...rennet_west.stm Eat Well. Think Well. Be Well.MNL__________________ www.leapallergy.com [This message has been edited by Mike NoLomotil (edited 03-18-2001).]


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## JennT (Jul 17, 2000)

Wow, Mike, I had no idea I was giving you that much information; I guess it's become habit by now to just tell the doc (or BB guru) everything I can think of and let them pull out the relevant bits! Thanks *VERY* much for putting it in English; my job is to translate from tech-speak to English, but I'm used to a whole different subset of technical terms!------------------*JennT*


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## zigmissus (May 19, 1999)

Thank you, Mike; that was quite informative. Ghee whiz! I especially took note of the part about post-prandial hormone stimulation from animal fats. (I take it that this is different from having a problem with your gallbladder that causes intolerance to fats?) This seems to be what happens to me. I'm learning that it's not so much specific foods that are my "triggers," but the size of the portion and fat content of what I eat. A thick steak is a sure ticket to an IBS attack for me. The good news is that I've started to reintroduce a small amount of cheese products into my diet, with no problems. I've heard people on this BB, including myself, express dismay that their trigger foods always seem to be the ones they love the most. I wonder if they are triggers only because we like them so much we eat too much of them?


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

The amount of exposure may be part of it. That and well the only triggers that bother you that you can't eat again are the ones you like, so the natural psychologial tendancy (just the way people's brains work) is those are the ones that stand out in your mind.Then again, some people assume that if I ate X and had symptoms X is the trigger. Food is only one trigger, and you can have symptoms from a physiological or psychological trigger that just happend to be at the same time you ate your favorite food and erroneously assume that the favorite food was the problem. I think this is why sometimes people get to where they are eating very few foods and not getting any better. If pretty much everything causes symptoms it may not be food.For me it's an issue of volume. If I eat X amount of ANYTHING, and I mean ANYTHING then I will get symptoms (at least prior to the Cog. Behave. Ther--now I don't do that anymore). If I were only looking at the what I ate I could have easily assumed that I was reactive to everything.K.------------------I have no financial, academic, or any other stake in any commercial product mentioned by me.My story and what worked for me in greatly easing my IBS: http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/Forum17/HTML/000015.html


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## HipJan (Apr 9, 1999)

Yesterday afternoon, as a matter of fact, I just had one of those smoothies a couple of you are talking about: rice milk (plus a bit of soymilk), a frozen banana, some ground flaxseed for good measure, and 1 tsp. of my UltraClear Sustain (a good-tasting nutritional supplement). Yum!


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## HipJan (Apr 9, 1999)

I've used Smart Balance oil before. Hmmm, so is the whey used in the Smart Balance to thicken it up to form margerine-like sticks (and thus avoid the transfatty acid process)?


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## Krissy (Jul 6, 2000)

Hi Jan







ground flaxseed? is this a powder? i've seen the little seeds in a bag at my health store,but never powder.How did it come out? i can't have soy


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

Many people who think they are reactive to everything are simply reactive to something they eat regularly, not cyclically. This is usually the case in food intolerance, and has been seen time and time again by those who practice in that field.Oversimplified for purpose of illustration, when the mucosa of the small bowel and the circulating immune cells respond, it is not like an on-off switch. The response takes time to develop and fructify, then the chemicals released take time to act upon the effector sites (be they gut nerves, smooth muscle or even the CNS) then as long as the chemicals remain in the tissue and plasma their effects coninue. If the stimulus (allergen) is removed, then the chemicals must be removed (takes time) and the affected organ or tissue must recover (takes time).Most people who appear to react after every meal when approached causally are found to be consuming one or more things that cause reaction regularly, daily, sometimes even multiple times per day every day...the nature of our eating patterns tends to be repetitive, esp. if we get food symptoms. people tend to start restricting their diet and do not rotate. Since they cannot accuratley identifiy the culprits they keep consuuming them frequently so it is like an "open wound" that never heals so to speak (illustrative----there is no wound in the bowel thats a simile).Therefore the effects never stop. The gut nerves, smooth muscle and even the CNS sites affected by the meditors released remain in a constant state of upregulation. The exaggerated postprandial response and the exaggerated MMC responses have been linked as we know to specific neurotransmitters which are also released in the gut in immune response and to specific gut hormones which have been found to be elevated in some IBS patients as well. The links between the two have not eben clearly elucidated yet. But if you eliminate the excess meditor release the upregulated reactions are seen to diminish. The key is finding the causal agents and often this is very difficult as has been shown.So in this case the person cannot establish a cause-effect relationship without strict specific precoedure being followed in the diagnostic protocols, and they rarely are implemenented properly unless it is a practitoner familiar with diagnosis and management of the nuances of food intolerances, which are more difficult than identifying food or additive allergies.Indeed many patients also do develop a super-imposed cause-effect or expectation-response component to their syndrome. The question always remains which is the primary or major contributor and which is the minor contributor.The two are not mutually exclusive. I know of no clincial practitioner who approaches IBS patients from the position of ruling out all causal elements who beleives they are mutually exclusive. Generally the given practitioners background and specialty tends to help determine which direction the patient will be assessed from...symptomatic or causal.If approached thoroughly from a causal approach using all the tools currently available, what happens in general is the phsyiologic reactions to foods and additives will be systematically identified and removed, and there are often no symptoms left after a period of time on rotaton-elimination dietary therapy, including the stress and anxiety-responses many patients exhibit in their chronic state. Often this element is reduced by eliminating the chemical mediators or exogenous chemicals in the reactive foods which can have those effects. The effects of the dozens of specific mediators released in cellular responses are well known when they enter the systemic circulation.In some patients clearly a learned-behavior component remains, which has then been isolated and must be treated with therapies to attenuate it, such as CBT or other forms of psychosocial therapies. These practitioners tend to leave antidepressant and antianxiety agents out of the protocol until the complicating element of the immune mediators has been removed. These practitioners don't end up using them much.Sometimes the experience and the outcomes seen in a given patient population approached causally versus symptomatically are influenced by the natural preselectivity of the patients in the group assessed. This is known to account as well for differences seen in therapies and outcomes from different centers. [It can also account for one practitoner beleiving the chicken is first and the other that the egg is first, and either can support their contention. I don't know how meaningful the debate is, but it has been going on for 30 years or so and I am sure will continue for a while yet.]But if a patient undergoes very thorough psychosocial therapeutics of one or more types with an expert in those areas, yet remains symptomatic to a degree which requires on-going pharmacotherapy intervention to suppress the remaining symptoms, this may be suggestive of unidentified provocateurs in the diet. Just as a patient who remains somewhat symptomatic after thorough causal care may require behavioral therapy. Both situations can and do occur.MNL_______________ www.leapallergy.com [This message has been edited by Mike NoLomotil (edited 03-19-2001).]


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

I'm not sure if the whey is for thickening, or for flavor.It uses palm oil which is saturated so would be solid at room temperature and I think that's what they used to get the texture right.How solid a mostly fat product is at room temperature depends on over all how saturated the product is overall. Butter, Lard, Palm and Coconut Oil have alot of saturated fats so they are hard at room temperature. Olive, Peanut and Canola oil are mostly mono-unsaturated oils so they will harden up in the refrigerator but not on the table. Poly-unsaturated oils like Soy and Corn oil are liquid even in the refrigerator.This is why the hydrogenate the vegetable oils. You add hydrogens which makes them more saturated and they are harder at warmer temperatures. They also withstand high temperatures (like when you are frying) without smoking better.K.------------------I have no financial, academic, or any other stake in any commercial product mentioned by me.My story and what worked for me in greatly easing my IBS: http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/Forum17/HTML/000015.html


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## HipJan (Apr 9, 1999)

thanks, ok, it's the palm oil that does it.Krissy, the ground flaxseed isn't usually as fine as a powder. sometimes I buy the refrigerated bags of it; sometimes I buy the seeds and grind my own. I like to put it in starchy, high-glycemic foods (like bananas and rice, etc.) to cut down on the effects of the high-carb content. I know you can't have soy (too bad!).


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## Krissy (Jul 6, 2000)

Thanks Jan


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## JennT (Jul 17, 2000)

For my shakes, I use soy or rice milk (depending on what's on sale!), banana, honey, vanilla, and carob powder. I then freeze the shake in single-serving containers, but I usually don't wait for them to thaw and just eat them with a spoon!------------------*JennT*


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## moldie (Sep 25, 1999)

MNL I am not lactose intolerent, but was found sensitive to whey. Do you think it is possible for me to tolerate any dairy products? Would certain kinds of cheeses be the only dairy product I could possibly tolerate? Do you think it would be worth it to check for casien the next time around?


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## jane93 (Jan 21, 2000)

Hey guys..I have to agree with MNL that I think I may be intolerant to things if I consume them too often..not just dairy. I found that I can tolerate small amounts of chocolate if I don't eat it daily...the same with wheat and corn. I found this out through the elimination diet a few years ago. However I'm always prone to ODing on things like chocolate...I have no will power! I used to think I was totally lactose intolerant, but now I can eat yogurt no problem.I've read some of Dr Weils books and I have found a nasty tasting canola oil spread that has no Trans fatty acids..so I went back to my regular spread!One reason I don't love Dr Weil..is that in some of his books he states that IBS is relatively easy to cure...I think many of us would take issue with this!


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

HI MOLDED BEING:Here's another of the things that makes checking tolerance to milk products so hard...what is "whey protein"?The protein fractions of milk found in whey consist of these main elements if one just looks at whey as a byproduct of the processes we have discussed to make real cheeses: beta-lactoglobulin; alpha-lactalbumin; serum albumin; immunoglobulins.Now you can test a person separately for tolerance to beta-lact and alpha-lact to determine if they are either allergic or immunologically-intolerant (alternate pathways to reactions). The trick is predicting reactivity to a certain cows serum albumins and how much is in the whey if any, and the cow-specific immunoglobulins(actually blend-specific immunoglobulins unless you milk a single cow yourself isolating here milk).After talking with immunologists and allergists who have treated patients clinically for decades, and researched the subject for decades, one comes away with an understanding that what you want to do is establish does the person have lactose intolerance or not, do they have whole milk allergy or intolerance or not, and then check some basic products that are most commonly found in that cultures diet using commercially prepared extracts of the whole substance.Exclude lactose intolerance from the discussion for know since we both know you know all about that. if a person is whole-milk non-reactive then there is a low likelihood of reactivity to processed dairy products which contain any milk fractions. if they come up intolerant to one it just as likely an impurity that was introduced in the osurce or processing of that product.On the other hand if the person is test-positive for reactivity to whole milk...check for reactivity to other products common to the diet like yogurt and a few unique cheeses. This gives the patient a probability-analysis to work with.That is, if the patient then comes up NON reactive to, say, swiss cheese then the patient has a resasonable expectation that not only could they tolerate swiss cheeses (most of them) but it would be reasonable to expect tolerance to other cheeses and once in renmission should be encouraged to try oral challenges for the cheeses she likes and the brands she likes.If however she comes up reactive to a couple common cheeses, then it is unlikely she will be able to tolerate many cheeses as the primary conent is casein and each has various diverse other elements depending upon the manufacture, source, bacteria used, etc. even the region makes a difference as this will aleter the immune profile of the cows used or the bacteria used for processing. So the patient is casutioned to approach the oral challenges with some cuation and with some skepticism and do not expect to be a free-cheese-eater.But to test for specific reactivities to specific cheeses is literally impossible as there are way too many elements which vary from cheese to cheese, brand to brand within types, or even seasonally within brand depending upon the source of the cow milk used.if one had to choose a single class of foods which was responsible for the greatest overall frustration and difficulty in dietary management of any such food realted conditions as IBS or fibromylagia or migraine...whatever...cows milk and the milk products is surely the King Of Confusion And Queen Of Calamity, as the content is the Duke Of Diversity.How is that for being circumspect in response to a simple question? I wish it was not necessary but it is the reality of the Cult Of the Cow. __________________________JANE93:"...nasty tasting canola oil spread that has no Trans fatty acids..."What brand was that, Canoleo? I did see it in a store here and when I went to buy it next time it was gone so I never did get to write down the ingredients. Maybe thats why it was gone...pulled to avoid sensory disaster.Also, that excerpt from Dr. Weil "....IBS is relatively easy to cure.."...Wow...dissect that:1. easy2. cureGet him on the phone because I know a whole pile of doctors who have been screwing with it for 30 years, on both the causal-approach and the symptomatic-approach sides, who would LOVE to be shown what the hell they missed along the way. Did those words really get used?Man, I feel like an AMWAY Distributor if that "easy cure" part is true: "I'm Excited!".Eat Well. Think Well. Be Well. MNL_____________ www.leapallergy.com


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## Guest (Mar 20, 2001)

Does anyone know if Brown and Brummel is okay for lactose intolerance? I started using that instead of margarine because it didn't contain trans fat (whatever that is) but I am wondering if it has other bad affects.


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

It might help to post the ingredient list here.Usually margerines, even the ones that have milk protiens in them, are pretty low in lactose, and most lactose intolerant people can have some lactose (like a small glass of milk) a day.K.------------------I have no financial, academic, or any other stake in any commercial product mentioned by me.My story and what worked for me in greatly easing my IBS: http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/Forum17/HTML/000015.html


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## Guest (Mar 21, 2001)

Jan, Tell me more about adding ground flax seed with high glycemic carbs, will you? I'm trying to cut back on the carbs, but want to eat a banana every day. Would like to know what the flax seed does. Thanks for posting that information.


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## jane93 (Jan 21, 2000)

Yes Mike it was Caneoloeo..or something that sounded similar...I'd rather spread olive oil on my sandwiches..as for Dr Weil I started a new thread on him..


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## HipJan (Apr 9, 1999)

xoxo - okay, will try to remember to post a bit more later today (don't feel too well right now, and I have to go get my book to refer to).


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