# MSM--possibly new miracle cure!!!



## Guest (Oct 16, 1999)

I have been taking this new supplement called MSM for the past 2 and 1/2 days and I have had almost instant relief!!! It's incredible!! If anyone else has tried this please let me know how it has worked for you because I am so excited!!If anyone has read my past posts they know that I suffer from extreme, sometimes crippling IBS G and also alternating IBS C/D. So bad at times is my G bouts that I actually went to the ER a month ago.Anyway, my father started taking MSM two weeks ago (he also suffers from IBS and chronic heartburn) and he has had such amazing results! Last week mom made her atomic chili and dad didn't even have to reach for the tums! This is incredible, because he would eat tums like candy daily.For information I highly recommend going to this info page: http://www.cybervitamins.com/msminfo.htm There are pages of info, but it's worth reading. I am just soo excited! I have been so socially inhibited by this IBS for so long. I'm 18 and a college freshman, so I really need my health to succeed. But, these last two days, and no bouts, WOW! Okay, again, if anyone else has any other testimonials, or info let me know.Also, one more thing, the great thing about MSM is that it is easy to find--I got mine at Wal-mart, where it was a lot less expensive than the internet site and catalogs. So shop around!


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## Guest (Oct 16, 1999)

Kasey,Thanks for the info. I have never heard of it.......------------------LET'S ALL PRAY FOR A CURE TO THIS IBS SOON!BETTIE


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Well that was defineatly interesting!Flux, what do you think of this one?


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

Another alternative medical wonder drug touted for a wide variety of ills including the curing of actor James Coburnï¿½s arthritis.From a medical perspective, itï¿½s probably a good placebo drug and possibly a source of sulfur (although a balanced diet contains enough), but thatï¿½s about it.By the way, itï¿½s been used in horses for years to treat inflammatory conditions, but apparently they are not as amenable to placebos as humans are.


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## Guest (Oct 16, 1999)

Hi Kaseylee, Yes, I have heard of MSM and have taken some in the past. I didn't have a good response to it myself, although my dad had a wonderful response, especially for his sinus's.I listened to a information tape on MSM and it did a good job explaining the product. Believe it has a lot to do with permeability at the cellular levels.Anyway, I started taking it and had an odd taste in my mouth. Of course, I stopped taking it and my mother consulted with the doctor from the company. He had never heard of anyone having this response to MSM.I only am taking three supplements now and the IBS has been in 'remission' for many months. I feel great - an IBS free great. It is amazing though.... I seem to have this radar to detect when this room talks about supplements!







Used to it would be people arguing with flux! LOL Maybe I did visit more than I thought?


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## Guest (Oct 16, 1999)

Well day 3 and I am still feeling great! There is definately something to this. No weird side-effects or any side-effects for that matter so far. My father hasn't experienced any either. Both of us have highly sensitive stomachs too.Flux, you seem to be talking out of your butt "possibly". No this is definately not a placebo, because I have taken many "Cure alls" and experienced jack. This is the first time that I have felt good, really really really good, in months!! I even at greasy pizza, acidy greasy fatty pizza for the first time yesterday and didn't have D or G! Amazing. That in itself is incredible. I thank God for this!Good luck to anyone who tries this.[This message has been edited by Kaseylee (edited 10-16-1999).]


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

Another possibility is that the condition just out of sheer coincidence started improving at the same time you started popping the MSM pills.


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## Maceo (Oct 15, 1999)

Hi, allways great with possitive news. Witch product do you use?


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## jessi (Jul 22, 1999)

kasey, where do you get this stuff? Please keep me posted, I have been looking for two years to find something to get rid of gas. I am 23 and I feel the same way you do as far as this IBS stuff ruining your social life.


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## Guest (Oct 16, 1999)

Whenever I hear of miracle cures I usually view them as snake oil. Not to be too negative here--I may even read up on MSM, but not from those promoting it with a financial stake in its sales--but can anyone remember any "miracle drug" not developed by a major drug company that's ever held up to scrutiny? Not just for IBS, but headaches, arthritis, baldness, etc? DHEA, Melatonin, shark cartilage, all were advertised as miracle drugs. About the only thing that I can think of like this that's lived up to it's reputation (sorry for the pun) is Viagra.Skeeter


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## Guest (Oct 16, 1999)

Kasey, I am not saying that this artilce directly applies to you. You may in fact have been 100% cured by MSM. However, the article I posted in below I believe contains excellent advice for many of us IBSers who are desperate for a cure.Skeeter-------------------------------------Why Bogus Therapies Often Seem to WorkBarry L. Beyerstein, Ph.D.Subtle forces can lead intelligent people (both patients and therapists) to think that a treatment has helped someone when it has not. This is true for new treatments in scientific medicine, as well as for nostrums in folk medicine, fringe practices in "alternative medicine," and the ministrations of faith healers.Many dubious methods remain on the market primarily because satisfied customers offer testimonials to their worth. Essentially, these people say: "I tried it, and I got better, so it must be effective." The electronic and print media typically portray testimonials as valid evidence. But without proper testing, it is difficult or impossible to determine whether this is so.This article describes seven reasons why people may erroneously conclude that an ineffective therapy works.1. The disease may have run its natural course. Many diseases are self-limiting. If the condition is not chronic or fatal, the body's own recuperative processes usually restore the sufferer to health. Thus, to demonstrate that a therapy is effective, its proponents must show that the number of patients listed as improved exceeds the number expected to recover without any treatment at all (or that they recover reliably faster than if left untreated). Without detailed records of successes and failures for a large enough number of patients with the same complaint, someone cannot legitimately claim to have exceeded the published norms for unaided recovery. 2. Many diseases are cyclical. Such conditions as arthritis, multiple sclerosis, allergies, and gastrointestinal problems normally have "ups and downs." Naturally, sufferers tend to seek therapy during the downturn of any given cycle. In this way, a bogus treatment will have repeated opportunities to coincide with upturns that would have happened anyway. 3. The placebo effect may be responsible. Through suggestion, belief, expectancy, cognitive reinterpretation, and diversion of attention, patients given biologically useless treatments often experience measurable relief. Some placebo responses produce actual changes in the physical condition; others are subjective changes that make patients feel better even though there has been no objective change in the underlying pathology. 4. People who hedge their bets credit the wrong thing. If improvement occurs after someone has had both "alternative" and science-based treatment, the fringe practice often gets a disproportionate share of the credit. 5. The original diagnosis or prognosis may have been incorrect. Scientifically trained physicians are not infallible. A mistaken diagnosis, followed by a trip to a shrine or an "alternative" healer, can lead to a glowing testimonial for curing a condition that would have resolved by itself. In other cases, the diagnosis may be correct but the time frame, which is inherently difficult to predict, might prove inaccurate. 6. Temporary mood improvement can be confused with cure. Alternative healers often have forceful, charismatic personalities. To the extent that patients are swept up by the messianic aspects of "alternative medicine," psychological uplift may ensue. 7. Psychological needs can distort what people perceive and do. Even when no objective improvement occurs, people with a strong psychological investment in "alternative medicine" can convince themselves they have been helped. According to cognitive dissonance theory, when experiences contradict existing attitudes, feelings, or knowledge, mental distress is produced. People tend to alleviate this discord by reinterpreting (distorting) the offending information. If no relief occurs after committing time, money, and "face" to an alternate course of treatment (and perhaps to the worldview of which it is a part), internal disharmony can result. Rather than admit to themselves or to others that their efforts have been a waste, many people find some redeeming value in the treatment. Core beliefs tend to be vigorously defended by warping perception and memory. Fringe practitioners and their clients are prone to misinterpret cues and remember things as they wish they had happened. They may be selective in what they recall, overestimating their apparent successes while ignoring, downplaying, or explaining away their failures. The scientific method evolved in large part to reduce the impact of this human penchant for jumping to congenial conclusions. In addition, people normally feel obligated to reciprocate when someone does them a good turn. Since most "alternative" therapists sincerely believe they are helping, it is only natural that patients would want to please them in return. Without patients necessarily realizing it, such obligations are sufficient to inflate their perception of how much benefit they have received. Buyer Beware! The job of distinguishing real from spurious causal relationships requires well designed studies and logical abstractions from large bodies of data. Many sources of error can mislead people who rely on intuition or informal reasoning to analyze complex events.Before agreeing to any kind of treatment, you should feel confident that it makes sense and has been scientifically validated through studies that control for placebo responses, compliance effects, and judgmental errors. You should be very wary if the "evidence" consists merely of testimonials, self-published pamphlets or books, or items from the popular media.___________________Dr. Beyerstein, a member of the executive council of the Committee for Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal (CSICOP), is a biopsychologist at Simon Fraser University in Burnaby, British Columbia, Canada.


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## Guest (Oct 16, 1999)

I did this in three different posts because I didn't want my original post to be too long (is there a limit on length?). The last paragraph of the artlcle says "You should be very wary if the "evidence" consists merely of testimonials, self-published pamphlets or books, or items from the popular media." It's interesting to note that in a cursory search I could not find anything on MSM that could be characterized as science or scientific research. There was nothing in MedLine, for instance. The people talking about MSM seem to be the ones selling it. Sounds all too familiar. Has anyone found other truely scientific info on MSM? Skeeter


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## hmmmmmmmm (May 4, 1999)

I have been taking MSM for years with no effect on my IBS but it does make you hair thicker for some reason. But I am well in my 2nd month of remission from IBS on a combination of flax seed, caltrate plus and oregamax. At first I was loke 80% better but I have upped the oregamax to 3 capsuls twice a day and have had no episodes for 2 weeks now. I am so afraid of jinxing myself I hardly come here anymore but I want others to know what works for me in case you want to try it !!! I learned about it all here on this BB and am eternally greatful !!------------------ï¿½ï¿½ wherever you go there you are


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## Persistance (Jul 11, 1999)

Flax seed is sort of a natural equivilent to fiber, no? What's Oregemax?


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## Guest (Oct 17, 1999)

Yes, can you tell us more about Oregamax?Skeeter


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## hmmmmmmmm (May 4, 1999)

Well apparently oregamax is a natural antiseptic and antifungal. I wish I was smarter and more scientific to know better how it works. The first place I read about it was here and I was so desperate after 9 years of non stop D which was just getting worse. I was devouring this BB and just trying everything any one recommended, I guess I should post this as a seperate topic? What do you think? only MSN worked for other things for me but not for IBS. Apparently if you have an infection or fungus or leaky gut syndrom oregamax can help. It takes a few weeks to kick in and is not cheap but well worth the money !!! I will look for oregamax related websites to post here ------------------ï¿½ï¿½ wherever you go there you are


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

It is probably some variation of oregano, the spice. Spices typically have antibacterial properties. If you want it, it is almost certainly cheaper to buy the generic spice in the supermarket.


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## Bill (Dec 13, 1998)

Sorry, I'll apologize ahead of time if my memory is fallacious again (as its prone to be at my age







), but I seem to recall a big hoopla about MSM over a year ago, and several members tried it. The few that had success experienced same only for a short time, the rest (like me) saw no difference. Same story (I think) with the shark cartilage.







OTOH, Kaseylee, if its working for you, don't stop what you're doing, who knows what combinations will work for which people?


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## Guest (Oct 18, 1999)

Just a few notes you guys.First, didn't read all that Skeeter posted, but I get the jest of it. It doesn't surprise me that a psychologist would write such an article about alternative therapies. And these are the same people who write about IBS being a psychological disorder 'possibly' tied to a physiological disorder, but not scientifically proven. Unfortunately, none ever seem to be the ones experiencing this disorder, or they'd be on this board looking for alternatives too!As for Kaseylee's web link. I noticed this page is tied to Life Plus - a network marketing company. Which is fine Kaseylee, I am in networking myself and have a variety of products from the company I promote, which have helped me tremendously with my IBS.MSM was available in another company I worked for a while, but like I said, I didn't have a good experience with it, so I don't take it. But, again, for a little balance, not every supplement, food, or medication will work the same way for everyone because we all have different biological chemistries.Additionally, products that you buy from networking companies are usually very good, high quality products. The only thing one should be concerned with, especially in the nutritional industry, is that the supplements they are taking are manufactured by specific standards (ie. standardized ingredients).It is my belief that dietary supplementation is vital to person's with gastrointestinal disorders for overall general good health.If you want to talk placebo - which some twit will do- I don't think all supplements are placebo. One case in particular, my new neighbor, who also suffers from IBS. She's only 22 and has had this disorder for approximately 5 years. I gave her some of the Changes Now product I told this board about and asked her if she would try it to see if it would help her. She was adamant - nothing helps. Within a week, she was so excited and reported to me that she had even been trying to induce the symptoms she had been experiencing by eating things she knew that made her sick, but, she hadn't experienced anymore problems! Yes, and now she's going to work this business, as she knows the product works too.Lastly, as for the scientific info Skeeter - I have a book - although it's in storage - that's titled, "The MSM Miracle" and is written by a physician. When I move in a couple of weeks, hopefully, I will come across that book and can give you the author too. There won't be anything on Medline about this because it is a supplement.


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## Guest (Oct 19, 1999)

My nature is one of healthy skepticism, garnished with a touch of cynicism. Don't pounce on me too quickly. Nothing personal here. Just my rambling opinion.Science is at one end of the spectrum, quackery is at the other, and there is a quite a gulf between them. A lot of good ideas that lead to breakthroughs I suspect come from folks who are not exactly firmly planted on the side of science as defined in a traditional sense. But they are much closer to science than quackery. They pursue hunches, theories, and ideas that buck the mainstream. I think society is probably a lot better off because of them, too. The problem is that all too often those who are total quacks motivated by greed wrap themselves in pseudo-science or something close to it. They never portray themselves as quacks. And it's not easy for people desperate for a cure to always spot the difference. I really think that the overwhelming majority of those in the supplement business are just there to make a quick buck. Sure some supplements work for some people. But most don't work for most people. Ask anyone selling supplements, though, and they will all swear by what they're selling. If they all worked as advertised, then everyone would become healthy. That hasn't happended. There will always be sick people on whom the quacks can prey. Throughout history it's always been that way. I liken them to sales people who are one day peddling insurance, then used cars, then appliances, then investments. There's always some fad supplement to sell. Add network marketing and a booming economy to the equation and presto! You've got tens of thousands of people selling everything imaginable as the cure for this or that. Maybe a few people actually get results from the supplements. How do you sort them out from all the rest? For anyone interested, the Quack Watch web site is a terrific resource. Skeeter


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## Guest (Oct 19, 1999)

Skeeter, your healthy skepticism and cynicism makes me giggle. Your points are well taken and thoughtful."I really think that the overwhelming majority of those in the supplement business are just there to make a quick buck"I have to share with you.... there has been nothing quick about growing a supplement business. It's one satisfied customer by one satisfied customer. It's personal interaction and relationship building. This takes a lot of time to do - building trust is never easy."Sure some supplements work for some people. But most don't work for most people. Ask anyone selling supplements, though, and they will all swear by what they're selling."This is a little bit of a generalization here Skeeter, but, yes, I know some people selling supplements are in it for the money, but that's not all. I got into the business end of supplementation because of my background in nursing, classes in nutrition, and to promote preventive health. Prevention of disease and disorder comes through education on how to maintain good health."If they all worked as advertised, then everyone would become healthy. That hasn't happended."This statement brought back memories of non-compliant patients and non-compliant customers! LOL See, Skeeter, like they say back home... you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. A lot, A LOT, of people will buy products and never take more than a couple of days or weeks worth then complain it didn't work. When you ask them have they taken them, when, how, with what, etc., you find out they still have a majority of the product still sitting in the bottle! Well, guess what, they don't work sitting in the bottle.Most importantly to note here, is that supplementation is NOT a cure all. I have hopes, but I don't think all diseases and disorders will ever be eradicated, either through modern medicines nor herbal/nutritional supplementation. How supplementation does help is in promoting prevention and improving the QUALITY of one's life. "Add network marketing and a booming economy to the equation and presto! You've got tens of thousands of people selling everything imaginable as the cure for this or that."As for networking, it's a viable business concept and being taught more in business schools across the nation. It's rampant on the internet and once you catch the fire and learn you don't have to do a 9-5 to earn an income, and actually get to do something you enjoy - talking to people, educating them, developing relationships, having time with and for your family, you believe in the concept more."Maybe a few people actually get results from the supplements. How do you sort them out from all the rest?"Well, one way is to ask the person from whom you are considering buying products if they use the products themselves. Ask them how they liked this product or that product, how did it make them feel or what effects did they have. If the person is vague, that should tell you they either are not sold on the products themselves or they don't take them. Find out some information about the company - who are they, how long in business, etc. There is a ton of info on the net and checking out companies is fairly easy. Additionally, do they offer your money back if you don't get the results you are expecting? Some companies do stand behind their products and want people to have a good experience, after all, they won't be in business long if customer's don't get results.


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## Guest (Oct 19, 1999)

Umleila, very thoughtful response. Terrific points. I'm one of those people who hasn't always stuck with some of the supplements like you describe. It's really tough sometimes to give them the weeks or months necessary. Thank goodness there are people such as you in the supplement business. Didn't mean to indict everyone in my sweeping generalizations.Skeeter


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

The authorï¿½s field is not relevant to what he wrote. He happens to be correct and that is what counts. Products that are purchased from ï¿½networkedï¿½ companies-where networked really means pyramid scheme-generally have never been tested and the means by which they supposedly work far removed from the fact that the distinct possiblity that they do not work at all.There is no good reason to think their products are of high quality. The government does not require them to be tested for purity or even to contain what they claim them to contain. Some companies like Umleilaï¿½s *TwinLabs intentionally sell products they know to be dangerous with no concern as to who they might hurt.*Fundamentally, many of the supplement companies are indeed built primarily based on greed and pray upon ignorance of their constituents (and that fact that our medicine is still only in the 20th century). They use mechanisms described in the article as a means of selling their product and growing their company.What you described about Changes Now by the way falls into the categories described by the article above. (Ironically, if the stuff actually helped anyone weï¿½d have no way of knowing.)The book MSM Miracle is much worse shape though because it claims MSM offers a miracle, yet it has no miracle to speak of. There is no formal evidence anyone has improved as directly as a result of taking MSM.


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## Guest (Oct 20, 1999)

So, Flux, I don't suspect you'll be going to work for a network marketing firm any time soon?!Skeeter


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## Guest (Oct 20, 1999)

Okay that is it---NO proof you say, and all I hear are skeptics, doubters, and God-less non-believers. Well, I have faith, believe strongly in my savior and I know that for me, without a doubt this MSM is working wonders for me. I feel so incredible, it is unbelievable. I haven't felt this good in over a year! My cramping attacks have totally disappeared! Menstral pain, nill, and my joints? They move so smoothly without even cracking! I have boundless energy and I can eat foods I haven't eaten in years!! This for me is amazing, nothing short of a miracle. My father has noticed incredible positive things too, and we both just seem to get better! NO negative or any side-effects to speak of thus far.I understand that not everything works on everybody, but this has worked for my IBS G and my joint pain, and my menstral cramps, and my mood, and my fatigue. Also,it has helped my father's and my severe peptic problems. Whatever it is doing to regulate my body systems--it is working and my skin feels so soft too!!So be as skeptical as you want, but you will never know until you try. As of now, I was just hoping to share a solution with fellow suffers, because I know too well the depression and desperation of this disease,and now I feel fantastic!I pray for you anal-retentive suffers who are so hesitant to try anything because you may be avoiding possibly a better outlook on life.As of now I don't care what anyone has to say from this post, because I feel great!I'll pray for those in pain and hurting, hopefully you will find a cure and feel better soon.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

I am not sure what product you are referring to. Colloidal silver has been touted on this board and it is known to turn peopleï¿½s skin permanent blue-gray. Other than that there is general concern regarding dietary supplments that we donï¿½t know that pills contain what they claim to contain or that they contain something that is not claimed. For example, it is common for Chinese herbs to be intentionally tainted with prescription drugs to make them more effective.As for Sustenase in particular, based on the ingredients, I donï¿½t see a reason to think it is harmful, but as an evaluation, I would wonder three things, 1) why put in Betaine HCl? Most people want to reduce the amount of acid in their guts, not increase it, 2) why are the enzyme amounts given in milligrans and not in international units for enzymes (a standard way of measuring enzyme activity) and 3) how is the pill accomplishing phase one and phase 2? That is, what protects the enzymes from being destroyed in the stomach? How is the pill not destroying itself? I would reckon a bet that this pill has not been tested by the company, and that many of the claims for what is it supposed to do are based more on faith than actual clinical data.


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## Persistance (Jul 11, 1999)

Flux -- did you just say something about it is common for Chinese herbs to be tainted with prescription drugs to make them more effective? Would you be thinking that about Calm Colon?


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## LDanna (Apr 13, 1999)

Persist -- That seems highly unlikely since this is not out of a Chinese herb shop. CC is the proprietary formula used in the JAMA study and Samra's products are produced in the labratory connected to the University.But, let's hear what flux has to say...


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## Blair (Dec 15, 1998)

Kaseylee, does IBS G mean GERD?


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## Guest (Oct 20, 1999)

Fluxster - you always take up for the medical profession as if they are flawless. Well, you might wake up one day, or maybe not. Tell you whatï¿½ why don't you go nurse people for a while and get in the real world. Your blinders might just open a bit.It is also painfully obvious you know nothing about network marketing nor can you differentiate between real business and a scheme. So you can tell the difference in the future, a bona fide networking company has a product or service tied to a method of compensation for reps referring that product or service to other people or businesses. A pyramid scheme is exactly what it implies - a scheme to make money WITHOUT having a legitimate product or service. Pyramid schemes are based on 'recruiting' and network marketing is based on end user consumption. Do a search and educate yourself, please, before you start knocking something you know nothing about, again.As for the rest of your comments, they are meant to inflame and insult. For this reason, I will not play your psychotic manipulative game. See, I also have quite a few hours in psychology - so I am hip to you.As for if the product works - well, I am with you Kaseylee, I won't stop taking (or promoting) what I know has helped me, my neighbor, and a thousand other + people because one idiot thinks it won't work.Finally, Skeeter, love that last comment, however, if I ran into a person with the personality of Fluxster, I wouldn't even take the time to talk to them about either my products or my business. They are hopelessly stuck on stupid when it comes to new ideas or methods of doing things!


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## Guest (Oct 20, 1999)

This thread is beginning to look more like a wicked web. Have to comment on a previous post. How does one reconcile in their own mind the fact that they can refer to faith, praying, etc, and engage in name calling at the same time? Interesting. I have a tough time following that. Say what you want about Flux. He may be terse, untactful, direct...even wrong...but I haven't heard him insult anyone or call names. Skeeter


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

Yes, it's common for herbs imported from China to be tainted with prescription drugs to make them more effective. I have no idea about Calm Colon, though, It does seem very unlikely that a product being scrutizined scientifically could have been tainted.


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## Persistance (Jul 11, 1999)

Thanks, Flux. See, the thing is -- whether you realize it or not (even though you might think you're part of a picked-on, much abused minority), most people on this web actually lean more toward the alternative, non-traditional supplements, or at least most have a great deal of experience experimenting with them. That goes along with a study in which they found web users to be mostly "libertarian and non-conventional in their beliefs." There are fewer who know science here -- I'd say maybe three or four --than those of us who are constantly trying, often with frustrating and expensive results. Without the balance and input of those like Flux, Kate, Missycat and Lefty, we'd all often be still floundering around. I am greatly appreciative -- and, I might add, unfraid -- to hear the scientific side of things.


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## RW (Oct 14, 1999)

I will probably get flamed for this, but here goes. I am new here and don't know the background of the people who post here. Some of you seem to be friends or at least acquaintances. I will admit I am not an expert on IBS and nutrition, but I have done a lot of research. I have also gone to a number of doctors over the last 20+ years always with the same results. Take an anti-anxiety drug, it's all in your head, let's run some more expensive test, try this major pharmaceutical Co's. product, etc. None of this has worked or I wouldn't be here. Yes I have a healthy dose of skeptisism about herbs and mircle supplements, but I am very interested in what others have tried. I have read many post by Flux and what I hear sounds just like my doctors. Is Flux a member of the mainstream medical community. He seems to have no respect for others opinions, tries as hard as possible to burst others bubbles when they have success, and attacks every new possible cure that someone finds. I thought the point of this forum was to exchange ideas. If I try something and it works I would share that info. If I try something and it doesn't I would share that info also, but I would never just arbitrarily dismiss someones successes because I hadn't thought of it first. Everyone seems to defer to Flux's opinions and I don't understand why. If he has had great success, how did he do it and why is he still on the board? If he hasn't then what makes him such an expert that everyone wants his mostly negative opinions. I am sorry if this seems overly negative and abusive towards one member of the BB, but I just have read so much by him that is just that. So let the flaming begin.


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## Guest (Oct 24, 1999)

It's been my observation that flux does do "bubble bursting" but not "flaming." Skeeter


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## Guest (Sep 7, 2000)

Someone on this board has given people the impression that colloidal silver is not safe because it turns your skin a permanent blue-gray color. This is not true. Pure colloidal silver, in any concentration has never been known to do this. It is only the forms that contain other things in them, such as silver acetate, or silver nitrate, or preparations that contain silver in the metallic form. True colloids are just a few molecules with an electrical charge that keeps them in suspension. This is also the only form that is effective as a disease fighter. It has been proven to kill bacteria, fungii and viruses. I have been studying it for a long time and taking massive doses at times. I have had instant results with other diseases and am convinced that any disease that is caused by bacteria, fungii or virus can be helped with a pure colloidal silver preparation. I am not selling anything. There are books in health food stores and web-sites where you can learn how to make it for yourself for pennies a gallon. You connect 3 nine volt batteries together in series (black to red, positive to negative) so you get 27 volts. Attach the end leads to two alligator clips. Buy an ingot of .999 fine pure silver. (I got mine at a jewelry store) DO NOT use sterling silver, only pure silver! (Nickle poisoning can result) Cut the ingot in half length-wise and connect each piece to one of the alligator clips. Suspend the silver pieces in DISTILLED WATER in a GLASS container. (Chlorinated water will produce silver chlorideï¿½.toxic.) The strength of the colloidal solution is determined by the amount of distilled water and the length of time. A basic formula is: for 8 oz. of water, one minute = 1 PPM concentration. Concentrations above 5 PPM are effective. I use 15 PPM. For larger amounts of water increase the time accordingly. The FDA has officially stated that colloidal silver has no known side effects and no known toxicity levels. Start making your own today. Silver is an essential element that is severely lacking in our diets today. Don't be swayed by skeptics and naysayers. Study and learn for yourself. Take control of your own health today. The medical profession won't cure you. They make too much money off your illnesses. Enjoy!


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## Guest (Sep 7, 2000)

Someone on this board has given people the impression that colloidal silver is not safe because it turns your skin a permanent blue-gray color. This is not true. Pure colloidal silver, in any concentration has never been known to do this. It is only the forms that contain other things in them, such as silver acetate, or silver nitrate, or preparations that contain silver in the metallic form. True colloids are just a few molecules with an electrical charge that keeps them in suspension. This is also the only form that is effective as a disease fighter. It has been proven to kill bacteria, fungii and viruses. I have been studying it for a long time and taking massive doses at times. I have had instant results with other diseases and am convinced that any disease that is caused by bacteria, fungii or virus can be helped with a pure colloidal silver preparation. I am not selling anything. There are books in health food stores and web-sites where you can learn how to make it for yourself for pennies a gallon. You connect 3 nine volt batteries together in series (black to red, positive to negative) so you get 27 volts. Attach the end leads to two alligator clips. Buy an ingot of .999 fine pure silver. (I got mine at a jewelry store) DO NOT use sterling silver, only pure silver! (Nickle poisoning can result) Cut the ingot in half length-wise and connect each piece to one of the alligator clips. Suspend the silver pieces in DISTILLED WATER in a GLASS container. (Chlorinated water will produce silver chlorideï¿½.toxic.) The strength of the colloidal solution is determined by the amount of distilled water and the length of time. A basic formula is: for 8 oz. of water, one minute = 1 PPM concentration. Concentrations above 5 PPM are effective. I use 15 PPM. For larger amounts of water increase the time accordingly. The FDA has officially stated that colloidal silver has no known side effects and no known toxicity levels. Start making your own today. Silver is an essential element that is severely lacking in our diets today. Don't be swayed by skeptics and naysayers. Study and learn for yourself. Take control of your own health today. The medical profession won't cure you. They make too much money off your illnesses.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

The above is totally *untrue*. Beware of colloidal silver.


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## Tiss (Aug 22, 2000)

Flux, I have learned by reading this BB to take everything in stride-especially some of your comments. I am wondering though-are you a trained medical person? I am under the impression that perhaps you are because you seem to only validate undisputed IBS studies that are reported in JAMA, etc. My hunch is that most of us (including myself) have spent years and years going to our MD's and going the traditional medical route-prescription drugs, etc. Even with all the FDA approved medications, it seems like very few actually work for so many of us (in the millions)! So my point of view is that I'm going to try whatever I can if I feel it is safe even if it is an "alternative" type treatment-to improve the quality of my life. I'm wondering if you have read all of the hoopla over the Ezekiel bread. It sure hasn't been tested by the FDA to be used as a treatment for IBS-C, but it sure has worked for some of us. Do you think that is just a coincidence? Just curious....


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## Guest (Sep 7, 2000)

Tess: No Flux is not a medical person. Last I heard, someone said he works for Apple computers in some capacity! He just likes to look up funny graphics, so let him play and try to ignore him!


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:'m going to try whatever I can if I feel it is safe even if it is an "alternative" type treatment


But collodial silver is *not* safe.


> quote:'m wondering if you have read all of the hoopla over the Ezekiel bread. It sure hasn't been tested by the FDA to be used as a treatment for IBS-C, but it sure has worked for some of us. Do you think that is just a coincidence?


No, I missed this thread, but why would you think it isn't a coincidence?


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## JeanG (Oct 20, 1999)

This is an FDA Talk Paper dated Aug 17, 1999 on the dangers of colloidal silver. I was unable to copy the url here because it was too long, but to find this article go to http://www.fda.gov and do a search on "colloidal silver". It will bring up quite a few articles, along with legal dockets.FDATALK PAPER Food and Drug AdministrationU.S. Department of Health and Human ServicesPublic Health Service 5600 Fishers Lane Rockville, MD 20857 FDA Talk Papers are prepared by the Press Office to guide FDA personnel in responding with consistency andaccuracy to questions from the public on subjects of current interest. Talk Papers are subject to change as moreinformation becomes available. T99-39 Print Media: 301-827-6242August 17, 1999 Broadcast Media: 301-827-3434 Consumer Inquiries: 888-INFO-FDA FDA ISSUES FINAL RULE ON OTC DRUG PRODUCTS CONTAINING COLLOIDAL> <SILVER>The FDA has issued a Final Rule declaring that all over- the-counter (OTC) drug products containing <colloidal> <silver> orsilver salts are not recognized as safe and effective and are misbranded.<Colloidal> <silver> is a suspension of silver particles in a colloidal (gelatinous) base. In recent years, <colloidal> <silver>preparations of unknown formulation have been appearing in stores. These products are labeled to treat adults and children fordiseases including HIV, AIDS, cancer, tuberculosis, malaria, lupus, syphilis, scarlet fever, shingles, herpes, pneumonia, typhoid,tetanus and many others.According to the Final Rule, a <colloidal> <silver> product for any drug use will first have to be approved by FDA under thenew drug application procedures. The Final rule classifies <colloidal> <silver> products as misbranded because adequatedirections cannot be written so that the general public can use these drugs safely for their intended purposes. They are alsomisbranded when their labeling falsely suggests that there is substantial scientific evidence to establish that the drugs are safe andeffective for their intended uses.The indiscriminate use of <colloidal> <silver> solutions has resulted in cases of argyria, a permanent blue-gray discolorationof the skin and deep tissues.<Colloidal> <silver> ingredients and silver salts include silver proteins, mild silver protein, strong silver protein, silver chloride,and silver iodide. The dosage form of these <colloidal> <silver products is usually oral, but product labeling also containsdirections for topical and, occasionally, intravenous use.In reaching its decision, FDA considered all of the information described in the proposed rule (October 15, 1996) andsubmitted by the public in response to that proposal, the Final Rule becomes effective on September 16, 1999, 30 days afterpublication. ####[This message has been edited by JeanG (edited 09-07-2000).]


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## Guest (Sep 8, 2000)

Jean: If Flux would do more of what you just did and less trying to be cute maybe more people on the board would have some respect for him!


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## Guest (Sep 10, 2000)

I tried this MSM and malic acid combo about two weeks ago - My urine turned neon yellow and my D got worse. I did notice my pain following BM in my back and legs wasn't as bad. But for me the not knowing what this stuff is doing to me - The relief was not worth it. Please be careful.


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## jcaf (Feb 19, 2000)

Tiss, what would your criteria be for considering an alternative treatment "safe". I wont think twice about trying bread as an alternative treatment but I have difficulty when it involves substances which i have little knowledge of. Have you decided that you are willing to try colloidal silver? Flux or Blockhart, one of them is wrong. I dont know Blockhart, as he is a junior member with only two posts here. Im frustrated with the lack of medically approved effective treatments but i would rather play it safe.odeal - do you have no respect for someone because they dont fetch an FDA posting, or because they do post a smurf picture? Is there a derogatory message in the smurf picture that im missing?


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## Guest (Sep 11, 2000)

Alternative treatments have the following problems:1. No requirement to demonstrate the treatment works.2. No requirement to demonstrate the treatment is safe.3. no requirement to actually put in the bottle what the label says is in the bottle.The Food and Drug Administration has no regulatory authority over supplements; there is no agency which guarantees to the consumer the products are efficacious, safe and pure. Testimonials are of little use in determining whether a product works, since the placebo effect can last for over three months after the product is first used. The placebo effect is a particular problem with IBS studies, because it is well documented that individuals who have IBS consistently display extremely large "positive" responses to placebo (some studies show a placebo effect exceeding 80% of the subjects). This is one reason why it is so difficult to demonstrate an effective IBS therapy in controlled clinical trials; the placebo effect is huge in IBS subjects. One site which has some useful information is www.consumerlab.com. They conduct independent testing of various supplement companies products and post the results on their website. They strictly address quality control issues, not whether the product works. From reading the results from their site to date, it's clear there are some significant quality control problems with some supplement companies. Hopefully, such sites will help consumers make more informed choices regarding alternative therapies.


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## Guest (Sep 11, 2000)

Wouldn't it be nice if all herbal medicine and supplements had to be approved by theFDA. I mean it wouldn't be for certain thatsomething was safe over the long run. There have been plenty of FDA approval meds cause problems - even death. But it would give you a sense of safeness in general. I personally would have loved to give MSM a longer trial, but the neon yellow urine was the kicker for me to stop using it.


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## Guest (Sep 11, 2000)

Has anyone else noticed the neon colored urine using msm - or was it the malic acid in my combo that was causing this? I just wondered? I have heard MSM was originally a horse supplement?


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## Guest (Sep 18, 2000)

I have lupus. I have been taking MSM for 3+ months. In those 3+ months I have had now flare-ups whatsoever. I was very skeptical at first, but since then I have tried to be optimistic. My dad is the king of natural remedies and he has given me several things to try in my lifetime. I have been diagnosed with lupus since I was 12 years old and nothing has ever worked better for me. I urge anyone who has lupus to try this. I still take my other medications as prescribed just in case, but maybe one day I will be off of those as well. I don't know. All I do know is that MSM is great. I take two capsules in the morning and two capsules in the evening. I always make sure that I do not take them anywhere close to the times when I take my regular prescriptions because it will decrease the effects of the MSM. I hope this helps anyone who is undecided about taking MSM. Thanks.Niquer1


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## LEELEE47 (Apr 11, 2000)

Gee. How did I miss this post. Kaseylee, I've been taking MSM for almost two years now. I suffer from Crohn's and I must say it has helped me a lot. I've been in remission for the past year in a half. Do I contribute that to MSM? Well, I tell you what, I'm not going off of it to find out. My aches and pains that go along with Crohn's are not as bad as they use to be. I do have D and I had it before I took MSM, but upon surfing this board, I found out about Caltrate. Thanks to Linda, my D isn't as bad as it was. I don't profess MSM to be a miracle cure, I would never so that. However, I have felt so much better while taking it. www.rlmsm.com. Just in case anyone is curious.


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