# I finally found relief from severe IBS! FINALLY!



## Guest (Aug 16, 2007)

Hey all,Before I get to what has finally helped me, let me tell you some history.My name is mike, im 21, ive been suffering from severe IBS - D for about 13 years. My symptoms are severe pain, diarhea, nausea, lack of energy, ect ect Ive tried everything out there pretty much to relieve my symptoms and nothing would help.Ive even completely changed my diet and now eat very very bland.One day I went to my primary care doctor because of some terrible lower back pain. My doctor prescribed me a prescription of a pain releiver called Tramadol 50mg tablets. After about a week of taking them off and on, I noticed that when I would take them the pain in my stomach would vanish, almost instantly. So I decided to try and take the tramadol when an IBS attack would kick in. Sure enough, it worked like a charm! The diareha stoped, the pain stoped, I felt soo much better! I couldnt beleive it!I started taking the Tramadol on a daily basis and it continued to releive me of IBS! I was so excited! Finally I was free of the torment and misery of IBS! After a couple days of using the Tramadol for IBS I called my doctor and schedualed an appointment. I explained to him what had happened and he was amazed! He wrote me a prescription for it, and ive been taking it ever since.Now I take it on a daily basis. Two 50mg tablets, one in the morning, and one at night. They take away the pain, nausea, diareha and every other symptom of IBS i had. They dont make me feel loopy or extreamly tired (I get drowsy when its about time for my next pill) My only complaint is they give a dry mouth but eventually that goes away. I work, I go to school, I finally can start living my life again! I used to fear going out and doing things, and now Im no longer afraid! I keep an extra pill with me just encase because sometimes my IBS will still kick in once in awhile. On those days ill take an extra pill and feel 100% better. I still monitor my diet, exercise and try to manage my stress.Like I said, ive been taking it for about a year now and no complications! And I havent even had to up my doses! It really is a mircale for me. Honeslty, I dont know what I wouldve done without it. I was getting to the point of wishing for death because my IBS was so bad.I know how bad IBS can be. If you or anyone you know is suffering from IBS please...i beg you all to please let them try this medication. I know alot of people are afraid of putting drugs into their bodies, but let me tell you, its worth it. You dont have to suffer. I hope my new find will help someone else out there be free of the pain and suffering of IBS. Now just a side note, I dont know how it will react with constipation IBS. Since it makes me stop having diareha (i used to go around 7 times a day) it might make someone even more constipated, but im not positive. Also, this medicine isnt made for IBS, this was just a random chance it worked for me. Talk to your doctor, ask him to let you try it for about a month. Good luck everyone, i hope you all eventually find some releif from this horrible condition. - Mike


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## 16874 (Mar 27, 2007)

Thanks for the info Mike. I actually have some tramadol so I will try it out. It was prescribed to me a year ago for treatment with gout. It's a pain reliever. I don't know if it is safe to take long term though, but I'll try anything to get rid of my nausea. It's like my body is playing a cruel joke on me. I am having normal BM's again, no more back pain, but now severe nausea which is the worst of all sensations.


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## Guest (Aug 17, 2007)

Yeah deffinately give it a try, I hope it works for you.I asked my doctor about the long term effects and he said there really wasnt any. The only issue he brought up is if I ever decide to get off it, the withdrawls can be quite grueling. But I never plan on getting off it, it does the trick and im happy haha


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## 18438 (Dec 14, 2006)

do be careful as this is an opiod, and can be addictive, so make sure you monitor that! Also if you are taking other meds check out the interactions, meds such as SSRIs when combined with it can cause seizures..


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## twocups (Jul 4, 2007)

this is absolutley not narcotic the dr. told me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and again I say " who the hell cares" if it gives you a life back again on a mere 2-3 pills day " big deal".


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## anth (Jun 3, 2006)

funny reading that, tramadol had the same effect on me. I had some left over from my appendicitus operation and so I decided to finish them off on days where I had to wake up early for work which usually causes some pain but the tramal made me feel great. I was just about to book an appoinment to get some more this week.


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## MyOwnSavior (Dec 21, 2006)

Does anyone have experience using tramadol for IBS-A? I'm the kind of person where sometimes I'm going like 5-6 times per day, and other times 2-3... but if I don't go (i.e. I'm doing something besides lounging around home and waiting for my stomach to give me the signs that I have to go) then sometimes I'll start to feel pain...I'm not really sure what I am, actually, because sometimes I think I have C but I'm still going like 2-3 times per day... in my case it's more like I feel like I have to go (i.e. stomach starts acting screwy, making noises, etc.) but can't...Anyway I just say all that in hopes that someone with my symptoms can state about their experiences with this drug... I really want something to make me feel better, and if this drug will work ok with my symptoms then I'll be sure to ask about it my next time at the GI dr's....


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## 16874 (Mar 27, 2007)

Well day 1 of tramadol had no effect on me. I continued to have awful nausea and weakness.


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## Guest (Aug 18, 2007)

Glad to hear other people have found releif using this medicine. Thats awesome that its not just me, we need to start spreading the word to other IBS patients. As far as Tramadol working with IBS A, im not sure but If I were you Id deffinately give it a try. It sounds more like you have IBS - D, cus whether your going 5-6 times a day, or 2-3, thats still a helluva lot of bathroom visits. Give the meds a try for a week and see if it helps u out, if it doesnt you can always stop taking it, but i think the odds are in your favor! Im sorry to hear its not working for you txdavid33. Just curious, does it releive the pain or anything at all? If its helping in the least bit, id say keep trying with it, maybe for some people it takes time to kick in.Starrlamia is right in the fact that it is an opiate so if taken with ssri's you can get seizures but im pretty sure thats only if youve had seizures in the past? Im not positive but im sure thats what Ive read. Its not a narcotic but they tend to group it in that category, but I asked my doctor as well and he reassured me *its officially not a narcotic*. Even if it was, it works, and to me thats all that matters lol I guess thats a pretty ignorant thing to say but anything that can releive me of IBS is worth taking pretty much. Ill deal with the addiction and whatever else when and if it comes.But so far, just for the record, i have no addiction problems with it. woo!


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## twocups (Jul 4, 2007)

well, if it qualifies as an opiate, than so does immodium right?


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## MyOwnSavior (Dec 21, 2006)

Mike04 said:


> Glad to hear other people have found releif using this medicine. Thats awesome that its not just me, we need to start spreading the word to other IBS patients. As far as Tramadol working with IBS A, im not sure but If I were you Id deffinately give it a try. It sounds more like you have IBS - D, cus whether your going 5-6 times a day, or 2-3, thats still a helluva lot of bathroom visits. Give the meds a try for a week and see if it helps u out, if it doesnt you can always stop taking it, but i think the odds are in your favor!


I agree; and soon I'll be starting a new job (hopefully, if I did well enough on the interview!) and so I really need relief, and soon.I will try it though in any event, I see my GI dr. this thursday and will ask for it. Just a quick question for you though. I did a tiny bit of research and evidently this drug is available in generic form, as extended release and not (apparently). My question to you is: what officially are you on? The regular (non-generic) form of Tramadol? It doesn't seem as though you are on the "extended release" version of Tramadol though, because not only do you still sometimes get IBS flare-ups, but also when you take the pill to relieve such flareups, you feel better almost instantly. I ask because your symptoms seem fairly similiar to mine, and so I'd like to mimic whatever treatment plan you've developed. As a last note, this thread was just what I needed to hear... I too am getting to the point where life as a whole just doesn't mean anything anymore to me because of my IBS and all the complications that arise from it. So thanks for bringing this to my attention, and I'll look forward to your next reply.


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## Guest (Aug 21, 2007)

MyOwnSavior said:


> I agree; and soon I'll be starting a new job (hopefully, if I did well enough on the interview!) and so I really need relief, and soon.I will try it though in any event, I see my GI dr. this thursday and will ask for it. Just a quick question for you though. I did a tiny bit of research and evidently this drug is available in generic form, as extended release and not (apparently). My question to you is: what officially are you on? The regular (non-generic) form of Tramadol? It doesn't seem as though you are on the "extended release" version of Tramadol though, because not only do you still sometimes get IBS flare-ups, but also when you take the pill to relieve such flareups, you feel better almost instantly. I ask because your symptoms seem fairly similiar to mine, and so I'd like to mimic whatever treatment plan you've developed. As a last note, this thread was just what I needed to hear... I too am getting to the point where life as a whole just doesn't mean anything anymore to me because of my IBS and all the complications that arise from it. So thanks for bringing this to my attention, and I'll look forward to your next reply.


I started out using just the generic 50mg tablets, one in the morning first thing when I wake up, and then one later on in the evening around 5, or 6pm. You might wana try just taking one a day at first to see how it goes, maybe thats all youll need. The doctor gave me some samples of the extended release but I havent tried them yet. Im still so happy that something finally works for me, I dont want to mess up my routine. As they say, if its not broken dont fix it haha







But I have thought about maybe trying it out, it seems like it be nice to just take one pill that lasts all day instead of 2. If I ever try it ill deffinately let you know.I really hope this works for you, I know how hard it can be having to go to work with IBS. I used to miss so much work cus id be sick all the time. My managers even threatened to fire me at one point cus I was hardly ever coming in. Id miss around 2-3 days a week, it was awful, and even when I was at work i could barely do my job cus id be in the bathroom half the day.Just dont let IBS bring you down man, just keep hanging in there. Sometimes it can get pretty depressing when your suffering everday, and you just get to that point where you feel completely hopeless. But there has to be something out there that will work for you. Hopefully these meds will do the trick. Ill be awaiting the good news! Oh and good luck with the job interview! Sounds like this could turn out to be a very good week for you


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## Guest (Aug 21, 2007)

the side effect dry mouth will cause severe damage to your teeth but good luck my ibs went away with gabapentin


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## Guest (Aug 22, 2007)

tammyb1964 said:


> the side effect dry mouth will cause severe damage to your teeth but good luck my ibs went away with gabapentin


A lil dry mouth can damage your teeth? Never heard that one. My dentist and doctor never mentioned anything like that to me. Oh well, good thing the dry mouth wasnt that bad and only lasted for about a month. Now its completely gone







And to be honest, id rather wear dentures then suffer another IBS attack. hahaGlad to hear you found relief from your IBS


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## MyOwnSavior (Dec 21, 2006)

Mike04 said:


> Just dont let IBS bring you down man, just keep hanging in there. Sometimes it can get pretty depressing when your suffering everday, and you just get to that point where you feel completely hopeless. But there has to be something out there that will work for you. Hopefully these meds will do the trick. Ill be awaiting the good news! Oh and good luck with the job interview! Sounds like this could turn out to be a very good week for you


Thanks a lot! I know I have to keep it in perspective - that SOMETHING has to help me, but it's just that I've been on different meds for about a year now, and nothing has even given me the slightest semblance of relief. But anyway, you've been a huge help - I'm actually excited that I might be able to live life for the first time in years.


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## Guest (Aug 23, 2007)

Yeah I hear ya, I was very concerned about the affectiveness wearing off and having to up my dosage but my doctor said that with this medicine you shouldnt build a tolerance since its not a narcotic. And so far hes been right, im still taking the same dosage...except for once in great while ill take an extra one when my IBS is REALLY kicking in. But thats a very rare occurance. My IBS is always doing its thing, but somedays randomly like every couple months it will kick in REALLY bad and so thats when ill take a 3rd pill. But thats very very very rare. I also used to be on another medication for IBS before I started tramadol. I cant remember the name but it was some anti-spasmodic or something. It never did anything either. It seemed more like a placebo or something. So basically before i found tramadol the only thing that would releive the pain is by jumping in the shower and letting the hot water hit my stomach. Those were some pretty awful times...Id be in the shower in horrible pain, on the floor, and Id have to keep jumping out of the shower to use the restroom. And from there it only got worse.IBS is an incredibly horrible condition. At times I wished it was a terminal disease so eventually I could look forward to death ya kno? It was just so awful. I really hope they can one day find an official cure. It be so nice not to have to take anything at all and never worry about it again. But I gotta say, just to keep positive, there is one benifit in having IBS. This condition has made me healthier then ive ever been in my whole life. I have to watch my diet strictly so I eat really healthy and exercise is highly recommended for IBS sufferers so I work out alot. And suffering really has a way in building your character and shows you who you really are as a person ya know? Theres always some kind of positive...even admist the most horrible of conditions.Cant wait to hear about how the meds work for you. Whens the doc appt?Oh and did you get that job?talk to ya soon!


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## MyOwnSavior (Dec 21, 2006)

Mike04 said:


> IBS is an incredibly horrible condition. At times I wished it was a terminal disease so eventually I could look forward to death ya kno? It was just so awful. I really hope they can one day find an official cure. It be so nice not to have to take anything at all and never worry about it again. But I gotta say, just to keep positive, there is one benifit in having IBS. This condition has made me healthier then ive ever been in my whole life. I have to watch my diet strictly so I eat really healthy and exercise is highly recommended for IBS sufferers so I work out alot. And suffering really has a way in building your character and shows you who you really are as a person ya know? Theres always some kind of positive...even admist the most horrible of conditions.Cant wait to hear about how the meds work for you. Whens the doc appt?Oh and did you get that job?talk to ya soon!


And I can relate to that as well. The sad part is I was really starting to enjoy life before I developed IBS during my first year of college. As you know, it's hard to enjoy _anything_ when your stomach starts acting up - especially if the symptoms are really severe. Unfortunately, I don't think IBS has made me healthier - for some reason, I tend to feel less symptoms when I eat a large meal... if I go hungry, then I get a lot of pain. So I've tended to eat larger meals than I would have normally, just to avoid getting that pain. And exercising I used to do, but now I get really bad cramping when I exercise vigorously, so I just do some walking now and then. I mean, I know I've probably gained _something_ from dealing with years and years of chronic pain. But in my case I don't know if it's much more than an abiding biterness towards life (and towards all those who I perceive as having a better life than I do, unfortunately). Still, hopefully that will be remedied soon! Thanks for all your help, if this medication works I can't even tell you how grateful I'll be that you brought it to my attention!


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## Guest (Aug 24, 2007)

Yeah my doctors have tried to push the anti depressants on me too, but I really never wanted to take those. I was getting close to giving in and trying it before i found the tramadol. Ive heard so much bad stuff about anti depressants, but yet again, ive also heard alot of good. But the bad stuff deffinately outweighed the good, supposedly it can really mess up your brain.What you said about your doctor is very concerning tho. She reminds me of my doctor when I first got IBS around 12 years ago (i think i was around 8ish) My doctor told me it was all in my head and all this stuff. He told me the same things "just dont think about it" and so on. But that was before anyone really knew anything about IBS I guess, so if your doctor still thinks IBS is "all in your head" you should check into getting a new doctor. I recently started going to a new doctor and he is great!He knows that Im a responsible adult and so he treats me like one, and if I need something for anything he believes me and will give me whatever I need. Its very important to have a good relationship with your doctor, so I would consider switching, especially if she denies the tramadol.As far as the job goes, u should call them back. Everytime I apply for a new job, i do the interview and i never give them the chance to call back. I call back usually the day after the interview. Being persistant like that shows them that your serious about the job. So give em a call! Yeah its very easy to become bitter towards life and people who seem well off. It also can put you at a very vulnerable state in search for hope, and you could get convinced into a religion or belief system that "garuntees" if you pray or what not you will find relief from your pain and suffering. Which in turn only causes more frustration when relief does not come. So I know where your coming from. And I think bitterness and anything else is ok feelings and thoughts to be having when your undergoing such a horrible condition. Its deffinately understandable, its hard to be happy living when your completely miserable. But like I said, hang in there, youll find a way out. If you want something bad enough you will find it. Just dont give up, im pullin for ya!


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## 16229 (Jan 28, 2006)

Taking the XR won't really give you any additional benefit as compared to taking tramadol at a normal dosage schedule. It may be of help if you don't want to take it as often or possibly if you were to need it before bedtime and may not wake up before it wears off.The issue of tolerance is really overplayed with most medications. It's meant in many cases for addicts, who need more and more to get the same euphoria. That's not to say the original amount didn't work, but when you are wigged out all the time you have to get more wigged out than you already are to feel that buzz.For people at therapeutic doses, the body may grow more receptors for whatever a given med is affecting. If your body grows more receptors than your tolerance will grow. But this does not happen nearly as often as you would be led to believe.What is far more common is for someone to find something that works (or masks the symptoms) then to revert to old or new behaviors that aggravate the condition. Like I haven't hurt in a month so a couple of pizzas won't hurt, etc. The ensuing flare would then lead you to take more medication. To you, it may seem like tolerance has grown, when in fact it hasn't.Good Luck and be careful. Make sure to go over a specific driving schedule with your doctor if you drive. Some localities consider driving on tramadol dui even if you have a prescription. For the most part that is up to your doctor and should be put on the prescription "just in case". Doubtful it will ever come up, but invaluable to you if it were to.


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## MyOwnSavior (Dec 21, 2006)

Mike04 said:


> Yeah its very easy to become bitter towards life and people who seem well off. It also can put you at a very vulnerable state in search for hope, and you could get convinced into a religion or belief system that "garuntees" if you pray or what not you will find relief from your pain and suffering. Which in turn only causes more frustration when relief does not come. So I know where your coming from. And I think bitterness and anything else is ok feelings and thoughts to be having when your undergoing such a horrible condition. Its deffinately understandable, its hard to be happy living when your completely miserable. But like I said, hang in there, youll find a way out. If you want something bad enough you will find it. Just dont give up, im pullin for ya!


It's nice to know that some people are







Your views about religion are interesting, and mirror my own in many ways. Sometimes when I'm talking to you I feel like I'm talking to myself, because I've agreed with every opinion you've expressed so far. But yes, I think with IBS false hope is much worse than pessimism. It's very frustrating feeling fine for a while, and so you make plans to go out and do stuff, and then all of a sudden your symptoms flare up and it totally ruins whatever you were doing... It is very refreshing to hear your words of encouragement, though. I've just gotten used to reading and hearing things about how IBS is a lifelong condition, and I'm just going to have to learn how to accept the pain. I just... can't really accept living like this for the rest of my life, and hopefully, as you say, there will be a way out. Certainly your symptoms mirror my own in many ways, and if you found relief from the Tramadol, then I'll make sure I at least try it.Oh, and by the way on the morning of my appointment I got a call informing me that my appointment was cancelled until a week later. Doctors require like 24 hours notice for cancellations, but they don't mind calling you the morning of, like an hour and a half before your scheduled time...


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## MyOwnSavior (Dec 21, 2006)

artjunky said:


> Taking the XR won't really give you any additional benefit as compared to taking tramadol at a normal dosage schedule. It may be of help if you don't want to take it as often or possibly if you were to need it before bedtime and may not wake up before it wears off.The issue of tolerance is really overplayed with most medications. It's meant in many cases for addicts, who need more and more to get the same euphoria. That's not to say the original amount didn't work, but when you are wigged out all the time you have to get more wigged out than you already are to feel that buzz.For people at therapeutic doses, the body may grow more receptors for whatever a given med is affecting. If your body grows more receptors than your tolerance will grow. But this does not happen nearly as often as you would be led to believe.What is far more common is for someone to find something that works (or masks the symptoms) then to revert to old or new behaviors that aggravate the condition. Like I haven't hurt in a month so a couple of pizzas won't hurt, etc. The ensuing flare would then lead you to take more medication. To you, it may seem like tolerance has grown, when in fact it hasn't.Good Luck and be careful. Make sure to go over a specific driving schedule with your doctor if you drive. Some localities consider driving on tramadol dui even if you have a prescription. For the most part that is up to your doctor and should be put on the prescription "just in case". Doubtful it will ever come up, but invaluable to you if it were to.


Thanks for the information. I was not aware of most of this; in fact I was almost resigned to the fact that any kind of painkiller medication would inevitably wear off over time, because of things I've read and so on. In fact, I've even read articles stating that narcotics (of which I know Tramadol is not one, but nevertheless it still has many similiar properties, or so I hear) are actually the _worst_ way to treat IBS pain, mainly because of the tolerance issues and so on. Also, I'll consider your words regarding the XR versions of this medication.I almost wonder sometimes if we hear so many of the negative points of painkillers because of the whole anti-drug position of this country... I mean, many kids seem to abuse things like Oxycontin (just to pick one narcotic) these days, and so it would make sense for the government to want to discourage people from using those drugs (i.e. the less people that they are prescribed for, the less chance that they will end up - eventually - in the wrong hands). Of course this is just my musings and I really have no factual evidence to back them up...Actually, could you explain the bit about "Make sure to go over a specific driving schedule with your doctor if you drive."? I did not know the bit about it being considered DUI to drive while "under the influence" (so to speak) of Tramadol, but I'm also not sure what you mean in regards to my being able to counter act that. Also, this is just a thought that popped into my mind: If I have to take a drug test for the workplace, I assume they would ask what prescription drugs I am taking, naturally. But with Tramadol, it's kind of a more potent drug, and I was wondering if most places would even hire you if you were on it. I mean, if it can impair your driving abilities to the point where you'd be issued a DUI... maybe that's not actually what happens (as far as impairing your abilities), but either way I just wonder how employers - who do drug tests and find out you're on Tramadol) would react to an employee being on it?


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## 16229 (Jan 28, 2006)

> I was almost resigned to the fact that any kind of painkiller medication would inevitably wear off over time, because of things I've read and so on. In fact, I've even read articles stating that narcotics (of which I know Tramadol is not one, but nevertheless it still has many similiar properties, or so I hear) are actually the worst way to treat IBS pain, mainly because of the tolerance issues and so on.


Narcotics cause constipation, which is the biggest problem. You may have heard of visceral sensitivity, it basically means someone with IBS will feel pain when others don't or will feel much stronger sensations than normal. The constipation from narcotics can make the pain worse over time as it can make your gut even more sensitive.Tramadol is not supposed to affect bowel motility (cause constipation/ or d). So in that effect it hopefully wouldn't cause some of the long term problems as the other opiates. There are actually many claims about tramadol, like no addictive properties, which are contested, so it would be wise to keep an eye on yourself on the motility issue.Whether or not Tramadol is considered a narcotic is really more about semantics and how you define the word. Personally, I would classify it as a narcotic, but the govt. has different guidelines. They call cocaine a narcotic and it really isn't. They're kind of subjective on it.Tramadol is a synthetic opiate, chemically altered to remove some of the "bad things" about the drug. Another popular synthetic used for IBS is methscopolamine, which is part of Librax and Pamine. Scopolamine actually comes from a popular garden flower, but causes wacky hallucinations and is very easy to overdose with. In that case, the methscopolamine chemical alters the flower extract to remove the hallucinations.So, while tramadol may be safer than other opiates, it is still an opiate at heart and we do need to keep that in mind.


> I almost wonder sometimes if we hear so many of the negative points of painkillers because of the whole anti-drug position of this country... I mean, many kids seem to abuse things like Oxycontin (just to pick one narcotic) these days, and so it would make sense for the government to want to discourage people from using those drugs (i.e. the less people that they are prescribed for, the less chance that they will end up - eventually - in the wrong hands). Of course this is just my musings and I really have no factual evidence to back them up...


And you would be correct for the most part. In many jurisdictions doctors who prescribe opiates are intimidated by district attorneys to stop. About 4 years ago I had a huge problem with that. I could not get my med because some kid killed himself with it (crushed 20 oxy's and drank 20 beers) and the state charged the doctor with murder. I even had two doctors expressly tell me they were afraid to prescribe me the same medication I had been using for years because of threats and intimidation. My view is that no one should be forced to suffer. If we can't treat a murderer cruelly or unusually, then why do we let a person in serious chronic pain suffer, especially when we have the means to provide them relief.


> Also, this is just a thought that popped into my mind: If I have to take a drug test for the workplace, I assume they would ask what prescription drugs I am taking, naturally. But with Tramadol, it's kind of a more potent drug, and I was wondering if most places would even hire you if you were on it


That's okay and is covered by ADA. Your doctor determines your ability to work, not your employer. The workplace is even required to provide you with reasonable accommodations. The only exception is if the accommodation would be unreasonable, like if you were in a job where you drive a company vehicle all day long. But I think that's understandable and I don't know too many IBS'ers who really want to be truck drivers anyways.


> Actually, could you explain the bit about "Make sure to go over a specific driving schedule with your doctor if you drive."? I did not know the bit about it being considered DUI to drive while "under the influence" (so to speak) of Tramadol, but I'm also not sure what you mean in regards to my being able to counter act that.


There are certain meds that someone who has a prescription can take and legally drive if the doctor deems it will not make them a hazard on the road. Many of us with IBS are on Librium or something similar. If I was a healthy person who was driving while on the Librium I could be charged with DUI. Since I have a prescription and have become accustomed to life with the med I am now allowed to drive while on it.But, my dr. gives me percocet with instructions not to drive for 6 hours after taking it. Most people will get the script and not think about it, but if you were to go through a checkpoint (or pulled over) and they thought you were intoxicated then you could be charged with DUI even with the prescription. Having the terms layed out in this situation is helpful because you'd hate to think you can drive while your doctor thinks you shouldn't.Again, it may be unlikely to occur, but it's good to cover your ass just in case. E.G. nowadays if I need the painkiller I'll usually take it after I get to work, then more than 6 hours has passed before I'm behind the wheel again.The doctor may tell you you are fine driving with Tramadol. But it's best to make sure that you are both on the same page.Wow, this got long quickly. AJ


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## MyOwnSavior (Dec 21, 2006)

Thanks for clarifying about the DUI and how to avoid it. Sometimes I think people on here have a better idea about things like that than the doctors prescribing those pills do...But anyway it seems as though you have been on several different types of medications; all of which potentially might be of benefit of myself. You mentioned Librium, percocet, and others (including, I'm assuming, tramadol). I was just wondering which of them you found to be the most helpful. I mean, if I'm going to be taking a narcotic (even if it isn't specifically classified as such) I would want the one with the most benefits, and least side effects (of course). Or, perhaps, do you take a combination of pills that specifically works for you? I probably wouldn't be able to take the specific combination, because I have GERD as well and I'm guessing some of the pills would interact with the Nexium (and even if they're not "supposed" to I still wouldn't want to take the chance that they might). But anyway I'm just curious about your opinions of these specific drugs.


artjunky said:


> My view is that no one should be forced to suffer. If we can't treat a murderer cruelly or unusually, then why do we let a person in serious chronic pain suffer, especially when we have the means to provide them relief.


Good point. I never really thought of it that way. Then again, our society does seem to have a huge problem with making sure people have the things they need to enjoy life ... Anyway thanks for all the information on the Tramadol. I've searched a fair bit looking for information on it, but never came across a lot of the stuff you've mentioned.


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## Guest (Aug 30, 2007)

Very helpful and interesting info! Thanks for all that artjunky!


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## 16229 (Jan 28, 2006)

> I was just wondering which of them you found to be the most helpful. I mean, if I'm going to be taking a narcotic (even if it isn't specifically classified as such) I would want the one with the most benefits, and least side effects (of course). Or, perhaps, do you take a combination of pills that specifically works for you? I probably wouldn't be able to take the specific combination, because I have GERD as well and I'm guessing some of the pills would interact with the Nexium (and even if they're not "supposed" to I still wouldn't want to take the chance that they might). But anyway I'm just curious about your opinions of these specific drugs.


Note, I do have GERD and am on something for it. Another note, but Nexium IS Prilosec, just 3 times more costly. Drug manufacturer did an end run around the law to keep crazy profits. Clinical tests have shown no relevant differences between the two.Just saying it may be easier on your wallet to just go with prilosec, but with insurance who knows? I was on protonix, but prilosec was cheaper than my protonix co-pay so I made the switch.The meds are tough. I haven't really been a huge success, though some things have helped. For the cramps I take chlordiazepoxide/clidinium caps, which do help but don't quell it all. This used to be known as Librax, but Librax changed an ingredient 2 years ago. Now Librax has methscoplolamine instead of clidinium. A lot of doctors are unaware of this still (how I don't know) and my dr. has to write out the long version for me to actually get what I want.Chlordiazepoxide, aka Librium, is probably the safest of the benzos. Any benzo can be habit forming, but Librium less than the others. Also, you're less likely to go into a catatonic state with Librium. I yawn alot, but I'm definitely not a Xanax Zombie. I also prefer clidinium over the methscopolamine any day of the week.I think probiotics are good and will be used more and more in the future, but you have to find the right probiotic and you have to take the right amount for your system. That makes it tough, obviously. I think many probiotics are too strong. I've done better with Activia, which is a bit more mild than many of the other options, but while it's helped it hasn't been the solution.Personally, I think therapy has helped more than any single drug. IBS is just so intertwined with your emotions and "fight or flight" nervous system it will get to you sooner or later. I use a psychologist, not a psychiatrist. Psychologists cannot prescribe drugs, which I think makes it a little easier to open up.We hear a lot about therapies like Cognitive Behavioral Therapy among others. The thing is a good therapist will incorporate a lot of these things into their sessions, while also helping you learn to cope and just deal with all the normal problems that clutter our minds. For me, it's been some of the little things my therapist points out to me that do the trick.As far as opiates, from what is out there, tramadol seems to be the safest. Though, personally, I think they're all good as long as you know your limitations with them. It's just my opinion, but I wouldn't recommend them for daily use, but more for control of acute attacks. I try to keep my usage to twice a week at tops.Why? We have to look at both sides of the coin. I think the biggest may be just plain monitoring our health status. If you take opiates daily there is a chance your condition could worsen without you knowing it. It's possible to hurt yourself (maybe somewhere else like your arm) and not realize that you've actually hurt yourself. Basically, your body can be extra damaged without you knowing it, and that's is a little worrying to me.Still, as I said before, if I'm in agony I take the pill. I just like to be safe in knowing that I've observed my symptoms before I do so and that they are my normal symptoms and not from something different or new.


> I guess I was just thinking that if I mentioned the IBS - either in the beginning when I'm applying for the job, or after I interview and am offered the job - it would be a detriment to my long term employment in a company... many places seem to view IBS as a slight problem, as opposed to one that - as we know - can dominate your life in certain ways.


 Technically, they can't ask and you don't have to tell them unless you need accommodations. Even so, they cannot discriminate against you for your health problems unless it would clearly interfere with your work and they cannot reasonably make accommodations for you. Even then, most corporate policies require companies to find you another position that you can work if available.And FMLA kicks in after one year of at least 25 hours a week employment. FMLA, family medical leave act, allows you to take up to 12 weeks a year of unpaid (that part stinks) absence for any medical condition that requires at least 2 doctors visits. You can take this time in increments as small as one hour, and the company cannot demote, fire, harass you.Note that companies can force you to use any paid time off before you use FMLA, but that option is still there if things get bad.


> After you get off of the medication, though, does the increased sensitivity go away with time? Or is it just something that you're stuck with?


From what I understand that would go away whenever you broke your addiction to the opiate in question.Don't limit your career possibilities. Aim high. Find reasons why you can do something, not reasons why you can't. I freelance doing live tv on occasion and I don't know how I do it, but I manage to get through every shoot without a problem. Did come extremely close once, though, but used to never think I could sit still for 4 hours where I cannot move. Heck, I did a 17 hour gig in Feb. Still don't know how I managed not to have a bm or 10. Thing is it would've never happened if I didn't believe I could do it."It's better to have tried and failed, than not to have tried at all." Edgar Guest"It's not whether you get knocked down, it's whether you get up." Vince Lombardi


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## MyOwnSavior (Dec 21, 2006)

artjunky said:


> Technically, they can't ask and you don't have to tell them unless you need accommodations. Even so, they cannot discriminate against you for your health problems unless it would clearly interfere with your work and they cannot reasonably make accommodations for you. Even then, most corporate policies require companies to find you another position that you can work if available.And FMLA kicks in after one year of at least 25 hours a week employment. FMLA, family medical leave act, allows you to take up to 12 weeks a year of unpaid (that part stinks) absence for any medical condition that requires at least 2 doctors visits. You can take this time in increments as small as one hour, and the company cannot demote, fire, harass you.Note that companies can force you to use any paid time off before you use FMLA, but that option is still there if things get bad.Don't limit your career possibilities. Aim high. Find reasons why you can do something, not reasons why you can't. I freelance doing live tv on occasion and I don't know how I do it, but I manage to get through every shoot without a problem. Did come extremely close once, though, but used to never think I could sit still for 4 hours where I cannot move. Heck, I did a 17 hour gig in Feb. Still don't know how I managed not to have a bm or 10. Thing is it would've never happened if I didn't believe I could do it."It's better to have tried and failed, than not to have tried at all." Edgar Guest"It's not whether you get knocked down, it's whether you get up." Vince Lombardi


I guess I'm just not the kind of person to want "special" treatment. I just want to be like everyone else. Come to think of it, that's what I've always wanted... as long as I'm not noticed, I'm cool. Unfortunately, IBS has kind of screwed that up for me. Even so, though, I'm still hesitant to ask for things like this... mainly because - due to just wanting to appear "normal" - I don't want to draw any undue attention to myself. Plus, I'm not planning on staying at any of the jobs I've recently applied to for a long period of time anyway... so I guess I'm kind of thinking that perhaps if I just "deal with it" for the next year or so then I'll never have to worry about special accomodations, or anything like that. Somehow with your username, I expected some kind of career like that.







But seriously, good for you. I'm glad you have that much faith in your ability to do what you want without IBS messing it up for you. I'd love to have that attribute, but unfortunately I'm just sort of resigned to the fact that I'm going to have to get a job far away from everyone (for various reasons, the main one being that if I suddenly have an attack of pain I can just go somewhere and lay down - the pain won't go away until I do this, for some reason - or whatever until it passes). So maybe I'll be a night janitor somewhere, or something... guess I shouldn't have tried so hard in college after all







My roomate was right, just live it up, and whatever grades you get, you get....


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Just fyi and narcotic bowel syndrome is relatively common in many institutions.I have seen people on our bb here with this and IBS and they were not happy campers, there pain increase and there were less and less options for them to treat the pain." Narcotic. Narcotic analgesic drugs are usually not prescribed for continuous treatment because of possible development of physical dependency or addiction and unwanted side effects, such as drowsiness and interference with clear thinking. Furthermore, continuous narcotic use can actually increase pain sensitivity and also alter gut motility, leading to severe constipation. This is called the "narcotic bowel syndrome" (Annals of Internal Medicine, 1984;101:331-334). Keeping these cautions in mind, narcotic analgesic drugs are occasionally used to relieve intermittent attacks of more severe pain. http://www.grandtimes.com/Treatment_of_Irritable.htmlAnn Intern Med. 1984 Sep;101(3):331-4.LinksNarcotic bowel syndrome treated with clonidine. Resolution of abdominal pain and intestinal pseudo-obstruction.Sandgren JE, McPhee MS, Greenberger NJ.We describe the cases of five patients having a syndrome of chronic abdominal pain, vomiting, weight loss, and features of intestinal pseudo-obstruction associated with prolonged use or abuse of narcotic analgesics. In each patient, abdominal complaints were originally attributed to either mechanical bowel obstruction or an underlying gastrointestinal disorder often involving prior abdominal surgery. Symptoms resolved rapidly in all patients when narcotic administration was stopped. Clonidine therapy was used to alleviate symptoms of narcotic analgesic withdrawal. The narcotic bowel syndrome is a clinically important and frequently unrecognized cause of chronic abdominal pain.PMID: 6147108The narcotics mess with the cells in the gut and make pain worse.I don't know alot about tramadolBut"Tramadol is used to relieve moderate to moderately severe pain. Tramadol extended-release tablets are only used by people who are expected to need medication to relieve pain around-the-clock for a long time. Tramadol is in a class of medications called opiate agonists. It works by changing the way the body senses pain."http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginf...er/a695011.htmlThey are experimenting with some different forms of certain narcotics in IBS. Long term use of certain narcotics for the majority of IBSers is not a good idea. There are also other ways that are showing effective in reducing pain and symptoms in IBS. Sometimes its an intergrated approach.


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## Guest (Sep 3, 2007)

Artjunky mentioned that he wouldnt recommend taking tramadol on a regular basis, and im sure he has a point and its probly not the best of ideas...However..In my condition, before i found tramadol I was at a point with my IBS where nothing was helping. I was sick everyday, every minute, every hour...right down to the very last second. Yes, I would still get the really bad attacks, but that was just on top of the normal day to day severe pain all day long.In my condition, I needed something I could take on a daily basis that would free me of my symptoms. To be honest, I live a nice comfortable life, but before tramadol I was close to considering suicide. The suffering was intolerable, and I felt there was no other way out. Who in thier right mind would want to live a life of pain, suffering, and 10 bowel movements a day? Not me. Thankfully however I did find tramadol. Unfortunately I do have to take it every day, and its probly not the best to take (whether its a narcotic or not) but as reckless as this may sound, I no longer care. This time period where I am on tramadol, and im still working properly, is all Im looking at. I take it one day at a time. And if a problem should arise in the future because ive taken these opiates for so long, then so be it and I will deal with that when I come to it. But for now, its solved my problem and im living my life again. In my case, I needed something everyday, and i found it. Then again, everyone is different.I look at it like this...Tramadol is mild compared to the many other pain relieving drugs out there. And if for some reason tramdol stops to work then ill have them permanently hook me to an IV of demerol or sumthing haha! Kidding but that is basically my mindset. Hopefuly I wont have any problems in the future, im thinking positive! Even tho...the IV of demerol would be nice...hmmm Neways also I wanted to mention...there has been days where ive forgotten to take my medicine. I didnt experience any more severeness of pain. I would just notice my stomach would start acting like how it used to (pain, excessive bowel movements) and then id remember i forgot to take my pill. But there was never an more/less pain then how it used to be before tramadol.As far as narcotics causing constipation, that is a true statement, but..Recently, over a year or so ago, before i started use of tramadol, I had a major surgery done to my eye. It was a cornea transplant, and yes it majorly hurt like hell! Anyways, I was on high doeses of vicadine for 4 months straight...and let me tell you...I was constipated to hell. But, ive been on tramadol for around a year now and I have no problems with constipation. I dont go as much as I used to, but I still go about 2wice a day, and now its no longer diahreea consistancy.So basically what I think happened was...tramadol's "constipation abilities" reformated my gut to take normal bowel movements with normal consistancy. In turn, perhaps if I was a predominately constitpated IBS sufferer, then tramdol would probly make me worse.So neways, just thought those are some interesting things to think about.


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## Guest (Sep 3, 2007)

Oh and one last thing, to MYOWNSAVIORDont get discouraged because of IBS! You dont have to be a night janitor haha! I know how your thinking tho man, I used to think the same way. I thought "How the hell can I have a normal job around people when im running to the bathroom every 5 minutes??" But there is hope out there! You will find it! Pursue your dreams man, dont let IBS get you down.Try the tramadol, pray your ass off that it works, and thats it man.I really cant wait to hear the results. If it works for you...were gonna have to start some kind of campaign or something haha! Like i said before, im pullin for ya man! Just hang in there, pursue your dreams, and dont let it defeat you!


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## twocups (Jul 4, 2007)

Mike04 said:


> Artjunky mentioned that he wouldnt recommend taking tramadol on a regular basis, and im sure he has a point and its probly not the best of ideas...However..In my condition, before i found tramadol I was at a point with my IBS where nothing was helping. I was sick everyday, every minute, every hour...right down to the very last second. Yes, I would still get the really bad attacks, but that was just on top of the normal day to day severe pain all day long.In my condition, I needed something I could take on a daily basis that would free me of my symptoms. To be honest, I live a nice comfortable life, but before tramadol I was close to considering suicide. The suffering was intolerable, and I felt there was no other way out. Who in thier right mind would want to live a life of pain, suffering, and 10 bowel movements a day? Not me. Thankfully however I did find tramadol. Unfortunately I do have to take it every day, and its probly not the best to take (whether its a narcotic or not) but as reckless as this may sound, I no longer care. This time period where I am on tramadol, and im still working properly, is all Im looking at. I take it one day at a time. And if a problem should arise in the future because ive taken these opiates for so long, then so be it and I will deal with that when I come to it. But for now, its solved my problem and im living my life again. In my case, I needed something everyday, and i found it. Then again, everyone is different.I look at it like this...Tramadol is mild compared to the many other pain relieving drugs out there. And if for some reason tramdol stops to work then ill have them permanently hook me to an IV of demerol or sumthing haha! Kidding but that is basically my mindset. Hopefuly I wont have any problems in the future, im thinking positive! Even tho...the IV of demerol would be nice...hmmm Neways also I wanted to mention...there has been days where ive forgotten to take my medicine. I didnt experience any more severeness of pain. I would just notice my stomach would start acting like how it used to (pain, excessive bowel movements) and then id remember i forgot to take my pill. But there was never an more/less pain then how it used to be before tramadol.As far as narcotics causing constipation, that is a true statement, but..Recently, over a year or so ago, before i started use of tramadol, I had a major surgery done to my eye. It was a cornea transplant, and yes it majorly hurt like hell! Anyways, I was on high doeses of vicadine for 4 months straight...and let me tell you...I was constipated to hell. But, ive been on tramadol for around a year now and I have no problems with constipation. I dont go as much as I used to, but I still go about 2wice a day, and now its no longer diahreea consistancy.So basically what I think happened was...tramadol's "constipation abilities" reformated my gut to take normal bowel movements with normal consistancy. In turn, perhaps if I was a predominately constitpated IBS sufferer, then tramdol would probly make me worse.So neways, just thought those are some interesting things to think about.This story sounds exactly like mine........................... my husband was using alot of Tramadol for back pain and when I couldn't stand my own pain I would take one, then I starting taking just one or two a day AND FOUND IT CONSTIPATED JUST ENOUGH TO MAKE LIFE LIVEABLE LATELY. then the stupid Gastro wouldn't give me any anymore ( I was only getting about 20- 30 a month from him ) I went to my GP who I've known for 25 years, and he gladly is giving me something that is helping me live cause he knows how long I've suffered with this. I take 1-2 ( mayyyyyyyyyybe 3 on occasion) and immodium and soemtimes Questran and I'M GOOD AS NEW LATELY. Hope it doesn't wear off.


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## twocups (Jul 4, 2007)

This story sounds exactly like mine........................... my husband was using alot of Tramadol for back pain and when I couldn't stand my own pain I would take one, then I starting taking just one or two a day AND FOUND IT CONSTIPATED JUST ENOUGH TO MAKE LIFE LIVEABLE LATELY. then the stupid Gastro wouldn't give me any anymore ( I was only getting about 20- 30 a month from him ) I went to my GP who I've known for 25 years, and he gladly is giving me something that is helping me live cause he knows how long I've suffered with this. I take 1-2 ( mayyyyyyyyyybe 3 on occasion) and immodium and soemtimes Questran and I'M GOOD AS NEW LATELY. Hope it doesn't wear off. Eric, I'm sorry but this continious warning about Narcotic Bowel syndrome WE MIGHT GET doesn't scare me at the least, why the heck not use something that's working now and LIVE FOR AWHILE, then worry the whole time if we MIGHT GET SOMETHING?????????? WE ALREADY HAVE SOMETHING HORRIBLE NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## 20749 (Apr 22, 2007)

The description I found for Tramadol said it's an "opiate agonist." I don't know what an agonist is, but since I have been taking Vicodin for years, I asked my doc if I could switch to Tramadol. He said you can't take Tramadol if you've been taking a narcotic.Now I wonder why in the world not?Angie in Texas, US


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Twocups, people can make up there owns mines when it comes to drugs, but having all the information is better then just part.If you have to increase the doses of narcotics, because they desensitize the pain receptors, so you have to keep taking more, evenually they are not going to work for the person, in some people. Then your stuck with even MORE INTENSE PAIN, without a way to treat it, except others ways they know about to treat pain. You view this warning as a problem or good advise to others?There are specific reasons not to give out narcotics like candy to IBSers. I Have had pain consistenly with IBS that is off the charts ten and up on a scale of one to ten, I surely understand pain and IBS.These narcotics are also not really working on the root causes of the pain and pain transmission.Although that Tramadol information is interesting and I will look into further.


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Another reason is some oeple taking narcotics now, might no relaize the drugs maybe seeming to help and they can, but it also maybe contributing to pain as well long term. Without even realizing it.


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## 20749 (Apr 22, 2007)

eric said:


> If you have to increase the doses of narcotics, because they desensitize the pain receptors, so you have to keep taking more, evenually they are not going to work for the person, in some people. Then your stuck with even MORE INTENSE PAIN, without a way to treat it, except others ways they know about to treat pain.


This is exactly where I am now, and I'm getting pretty desperate. Thanks for the info, though!Angie in Texas, US


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

I believe occasional use for very severe pain is okay by the way, but my experience is an IBSer will take them regularly to keep all pain at bay for long periods of time. Also its like giving cookies to a diabetic. They may like it, but its not good.Angie, ask your doctor aboutClonidine therapy was used to alleviate symptoms of narcotic analgesic withdrawal.


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## twocups (Jul 4, 2007)

Like Giving cookies to a diabetic???????????????????????? You think that's a worthy comparision? I think not. Cookies are doing nothing but satisfying the flesh of an individual with no real need whatsoever. I think taking a pain pill or two a day that keeps THE syptoms OF A HORRIBLE LIFE ALTERING DISEASE at bay and ENABLES AN INDIVIDUAL TO LIVE A LIFE , PROVIDE FOR HER FAMILY, AND GET UP IN THE MORNING WITHOUT WISHING THEY WERE DEAD, A VERY WORTHY CAUSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Do I hear an amen?


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Twocups, How long have you had IBS I am just curious?For me I have had it 36 years. For about 31 of those years day in and day out, I would get pain attacks roughy four times a week, sometimes twice a d. I would go to the bathroom sometimes ten times a day and others not at all. This also effected my psycological state which is why I am surprized sometimes when you post stress has nothing to do with it all.The pain IBS has caused me in my life has been* Majorally* severe. I could not sit down, lay down or move my body at all without causing more sharp pains, there was no comfortable position I could get into most of the time, although sometimes on my left side would help. Sweat would pour out of me and my skin would get clamy. The times I went to the er and got morphine or other pain medications did not help much except put me out. The only way for me to get rid of the pain was to try and relax enough and then fall asleep, which is very hard when your in that kind of pain. I have had all kinds of feelings in my lower gi tract from what feels like a charlie horse to a migrane in the gut to constant pressure and all kinds of other feelings I could not even describe well. Pain is my worst symptom personally as well and its hard to control and for me takes effort and preventive measures. I personally am 80 percent better globally with all IBS symptoms.I too many times have had extreme suicidal thoughts that a person cannot live this way. Many people with severe IBS have severe pain and have lives they want to actually live. There is a ton of suffering in IBSers some of it needlessly, not that its all not real, but because for the most part most IBS is pretty treatable and manageable. While you are finding relief in narcotics, that is your and your doctors combined decision.Others could improve as well with researched treatments for IBS and an intergrated approach for moderate and severe IBS.People have found pain relief through a variety of different methods, based on current IBS research on the problems in IBS. Some that have even worked better then narcotics.A person has the right to take whatever they want to take, hopefully based on all the information and hopefully with their doctors help and advice. Sometimes people do things out of desperation that isn't always in their own best interests without having all the information at hand. That I post about narcotics and IBS is valid information for people who might want to make an informed decision before embarking on narcotics for IBS.You have a doctor that prescribes them to you, because that is rare long term. I hear your suffering loud and clear. As they say Your not alone. I am sure you know I have tried to post tons of information on pain and IBS and ALL the ways I can find to treat it and share that information to the group. I hope you also know I am not against drugs, I have taken many different kinds all my life. It isn't about drugs in general.


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Twocups, my wife also has IBS and I see her leave for work with fear and IBS on her mind and her fight or flight going off all the time with her IBS and having to work and live life as well.


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## starwoman (Jul 15, 2007)

Good luck to you Mike, I am going to look into it to.cheers


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## twocups (Jul 4, 2007)

This will be my last entry on this forum ( who cares right?)I have had IBS_D for 25 years, it started when I was 25 and I will be 50 in a couple weeks. I've suffered through burning yellow bile filled D that makes my bowels burn and spasm and is not relieved by defecation ( in fact it hurts more) I do still have my gallbladder though and they find no stones in it or whatever ( so explain that to me?). I've tried every antispasmotic, antidepressant, cologenic steriod,antianxiety, etc etc. to no avail. The only things that help are immoium and Questran ( which I had to request from the dr. myself after learning about it on this forum). They can't explain my situation , I've had several colonoscopy's, CT's scans, barium tests. All that show nothing. ( as countless others on the board have found also, lets' face it few find complete relief) I"ve raised 3 kids, kept a decent house, had dinner on the table most nights, and worked a few night jobs in my life and work full-time housekeeping for a teacher now. So I KNOW ABOUT GUTTING THROUGH LIFE WITH PAIN.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Plus I have a very sick husband who has heart disease, diabetes, and back surgery. What type of IBS do you have Eric? I'm not like the kid who started this thread, 21 and just started this journey................been in it for decades.............and I again say if a pain pill or two a day constipate me and keep me able to live a semi-decent life. so be it.


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

"What type of IBS do you have Eric?"Did you read what I posted? I have had this for 36 years D and C and severe Pain from Post Infectious IBS.I wrote this in 2001 on the living with IBS forumPonderings of an IBSerhttp://www.ibsgroup.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=35700I was not questioning that you and others suffer. I am more then sympathetic to the suffering IBS causes and one of my own main focuses and areas of research interest is on pain and IBS personally.I post to the bb because of that and anyway I can help others TRY to sort things out.I am not sure why your hostile to me here?So your leaving this forum because I posted info on narcotic bowel syndrome? If that is the case then I am sorry to hear that or that I post that information upsets you, but it is important information.Its your personal choice to take narcotics if your doctor will prescribe them to you. Again I hope people make an informed decision about taking them.


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

CottonwoodIf you run into a problem"Narcotic bowel syndrome is a form of intestinal pseudo-obstruction characterized by chronic opiate use leading to ileus, vomiting, and abdominal pain. The clinical manifestations of narcotic bowel can be remedied by clonidine during the period of narcotic withdrawal.


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## firstone (Jul 21, 2007)

i really cant blame people who take pain meds to get through their day... it is just soooo hard most of the time.. day in day out you are in some type of pain...i feel for the people who have alot of responsiblities specially the ones with kids... if i was in their position ill probably take some too....but on the other hand i think eric has a very good point about chronic use and its effects in the long term....


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## Guest (Sep 7, 2007)

Everyone is making great points here but I gotta say...none of the possible long term effects of "narcotics" or "opiates" are of any concern to someone who wants to have a better quality of life.It comes down to 2 things...1. Suffer day in day out, every last second of every day for the rest of your life and either hope, or pray that eventually it will go away or hope and pray that eventually youll just dieOR2. Take a narcotic, opiate, whateverthehellworks to relieve the symptoms and live a happy life at least for awhile.Number 2 seems like the better option to me. Id rather live one day pain free, then live eternity with the pain and suffering of IBS.I want to say that im not some "young kid" who hasnt been suffering for a long time. Ive been suffering for over 10 years...in my opinion there is no matter of age or years of suffering...if you suffer enough to the point of wanting to off yourself to relieve your pain then youve suffered just as long and just as hard as everyone else. We are all in this together people.Now that I got that out of the way..If my tramadol eventually wears off, then so be it. Life was great while it lasted. At that point its time to move on to something else. Im taking quite a small dose of tramdol to where I have plenty of room for them to up my dosage if needed. Now if i reach the limit of dosage then ill swich to something stronger. Theres always something stronger.Does it suck to have to take any meds?? Hell yeah it sucks! I hate having to take tramadol to feel normal. No one wants to take 2 pills a day, but you know what...you gotta do what you gotta do.And if it wasnt for Tramadol I wouldve probly killed myself by now. Honestly. Life without living is pointless. Its upsetting to me seeing people trying to scare people away from taking any kind of pain reliever. Im sure alot of people are very confused about all this and every negative word towards anything is just making things more confusing Im sure.There is no cure for IBS. There is very lil "IBS Medicine" that actually works. I think if someone has found something that has helped them, then lets congratulate that individual. Lets allow other people to try it for themselves, because maybe they too can recieve relief from thier pain.Yes, you can become dependant. Yes, you can loose your tolerance for pain.Yes, the medicine may eventually stop working.BUT THESE ARE ONLY POSSIBILITIES.Come on guys, lets stop making negative remarks towards any treatments. If you are suffering with IBS, and your sick of dealing with the ###### of pain every day, then do something about it. I took tramadol, and so far it worked, ive had no serious side effects. Maybe it will work for you? Only one way to find out.neways, thats my two cents. Im sure someone will refute it and speak more against the medication. Everyone whos read this thread now knows the side effects so theres no point in mentioning any more about it. Lets start hearing some positive reports from people who tried the medicine, or another medicine and is now happily enjoying thier life symptom free! Were all in this together guys, im pullin for ya!


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## 16229 (Jan 28, 2006)

twocups,Don't leave. You're usually must read material. I love how cranky you are and hope to achieve that myself one day.I've been on a lot of nasty meds with a lot of nasty potential and real side effects. The best thing we can do is hope for the best, but prepare for the worst. Hell, I've been on steroids over 7 months now. Those alone can completely make you miserable. Hope everyone feels better. Maybe the power of positive thought? Nah......


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Mike, does your doctor prescribe them to you?I am not sure if Twocups doctor prescribes them, because she didn't answer that question.I hope if people are taking them for IBS its under a doctors supervision, because for one they can control the amount.We also have to take into consideration those on the bb who have developed narcotic bowel syndrome. I have seen this on the bb quite a few times. Those people were having serious trouble with their pain and IBS and then had very little options and it then becomes much harder to treat their pain. Researchers are making very good progress in understanding pain and IBS and in the next five years newer drugs will come out for IBS.Its not about negative remarks, its about the science of IBS and the causes of pain in IBS and that somethings can cause more harm long term then good.Again I do not know about tramadol personally, and am looking inot it some more, and there are some kinds of narcotics being researched for IBS.But"Yes, you can become dependant. Yes, you can loose your tolerance for pain.Yes, the medicine may eventually stop working.BUT THESE ARE ONLY POSSIBILITIES."There is a very good chance of these Possiblities becoming a reality. Opioid-induced bowel dysfunction: prevalence, pathophysiology and burden Authors: Panchal, S. J.1; Müller-Schwefe, P.2; Wurzelmann, J. I.3Source: International Journal of Clinical Practice, July 2007, vol. 61, no. 7, pp. 1181-1187(7)Abstract:Summary As a result of the undesired action of opioids on the gastrointestinal (GI) tract, patients receiving opioid medication for chronic pain often experience opioid-induced bowel dysfunction (OBD), the most common and debilitating symptom of which is constipation. Based on clinical experience and a comprehensive MEDLINE literature review, this paper provides the primary care physician with an overview of the prevalence, pathophysiology and burden of OBD. Patients with OBD suffer from a wide range of symptoms including constipation, decreased gastric emptying, abdominal cramping, spasm, bloating, delayed GI transit and the formation of hard dry stools. OBD can have a serious negative impact on quality of life (QoL) and the daily activities that patients feel able to perform. To relieve constipation associated with OBD, patients often use laxatives chronically (associated with risks) or alter/abandon their opioid medication, potentially sacrificing analgesia. Physicians should have greater appreciation of the prevalence, symptoms and burden of OBD. In light of the serious negative impact OBD can have on QoL, physicians should encourage dialogue with patients to facilitate optimal symptomatic management of the condition. There is a pressing need for new therapies that act upon the underlying mechanisms of OBD. Document Type: Research article DOI: 10.1111/j.1742-1241.2007.01415.xAffiliations: 1: National Institute of Pain and Coalition for Pain Education (COPE) Foundation, Tampa, FL, USA 2: National Institute of Pain, Tampa, FL, USA 3: GlaxoSmithKline, Research Triangle Park, NC, USA About opioid-induced bowel dysfunction Opioids, such as morphine, are highly effective in the treatment of pain. They are widely used to treat moderate to severe pain, such as pain associated with or as a result of back pain, arthritis, cancer and other pain conditions. When taken daily, particularly over a long period of time, opioids can cause a range of GI side effects, known collectively as opioid-induced bowel dysfunction (OBD). OBD is characterised by a range of symptoms including constipation - infrequent, difficult or incomplete bowel movements - abdominal pain and discomfort, bloating, reflux and loss of appetite.2 These effects tend to persist while patients take their opioids. Opioids reduce pain by binding to opioid receptors in the brain. However, there are also opioid receptors throughout the GI tract. OBD occurs because the opioids used do not selectively target the receptors in the brain, but also bind to the mu-opioid receptors in the gut, reducing GI motility and secretions. In patients affected by OBD, constipation is the most common, persistent and often debilitating symptom.3Almost every other patient who takes an opioid will suffer with opioid-induced constipation4,5,6 although its prevalence and impact are seriously under-recognised by healthcare professionals.7 OBD can be distressing for patients, causing a significant burden of illness and reduced quality of life. Constipation is ranked by most cancer patients as an even more common source of distress than the pain they are suffering.8 Some patients receiving long-term opioid treatment for pain would rather endure their pain than the constipation that opioids may cause.9 There is currently no approved drug specifically for the treatment of the gastrointestinal side effects associated with OBD. Taking stool softeners, bowel stimulants, increasing daily fluid and fiber intake and increasing exercise are methods often used to manage this condition. Laxatives may provide limited relief for some patients, but can also be associated with side-effects such as abdominal cramping, bloating and unpredictability of effect, and are not recommended for long-term use. http://www.webwire.com/ViewPressRel.asp?aId=19691This is not about taking a narcotic once in a while when you have a really severe attack either, for relief. But more about long term uses.Again I understand living with pain in IBS extremely well. But this is important information.It is also important that there are ways to treat the majority of IBSers to help them feel better, there is no actual cure at this time, but ways to feel better and there is a lot of new treatments and understanding of IBS that will keep coming out.


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## holy (Jun 27, 2007)

no luck here with tramadol!


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## twocups (Jul 4, 2007)

Have we established that tramadol is an Opiod or not?????? and if it is , then immodium is too is it not????????? and why not all the warnings about immodium????????


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Imodium is basically all the constipating side effects of opiates without any ability to get into the Central Nervous system.As best as I can tell it is when opiates are effecting the CNS that they cause addiction and Narcotic Bowel Syndrome.Lomotil gets into the CNS a bit more than Imodium which is why it is prescription and has an added medication to make trying to take enough to get high off it very uncomfortable.Now there is one case in the medical literature of an opiate addict using Immodium but to get the CNS effects you have to take like 100 pills at a time. (I hate to think what he needed to do about how constipating that had to have been, yikes).http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/tramadol_cp.htm"ULTRAM is a centrally acting synthetic opioid analgesic."Opioid: 1. A synthetic narcotic that resembles the naturally occurring opiates.Opiate: 1. Any of various sedative narcotics containing opium or one or more of its natural or synthetic derivatives.As to is the temporary relief worth it question, from the people I've talked to who have had to detox off of pain medications because they were one that became addicted or who have suffered from Narcotic Bowel Syndrome I'm not sure they feel the temporary relief of pain was worth the longer term side effects that happened to them. It isn't always no pain today vs pain the rest of my life. It is sometimes no pain today and risk pain that is 10X worse a few weeks/ months from now, and sometimes risking not being able to use pain medications in the future. The more you use these medications every day to get through the day the more you risk the potentially really bad side effects. Most people with IBS are not looking to use them one day or two days out of the rest of their life, they are looking for every day relief, IMO.As one who was in severe unrelenting pain every day with my IBS there can be other options.K.


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## twocups (Jul 4, 2007)

been there done that!!!!!!!! tired all the other options, for the past 25 years!


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## 20749 (Apr 22, 2007)

Kathleen M. said:


> As one who was in severe unrelenting pain every day with my IBS there can be other options.K.


As one who is looking for other options, would you mind telling us what has worked for you?







You have probably posted this elsewhere, but if you could give us the reference...TIA!Angie in Texas, US


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## 20749 (Apr 22, 2007)

twocups said:


> Have we established that tramadol is an Opiod or not?????? and if it is , then immodium is too is it not????????? and why not all the warnings about immodium????????


TC, you need to back off on your hostility a little bit. Nobody here is attacking you. I, of all people, understand if you are feeling paranoid and defensive because you need pain meds. I'm sick to death of being treated like a criminal by doctors because I don't want to live with pain.Tramadol is a narcotic of some sort. Otherwise, they wouldn't have all the warnings about not taking it if you have ever been addicted to narcotics.Immodium by itself is not a narcotic, but if you take it often enough over a period of time, it will stop working for you.I seem to be immune to the constipating effects of opiates. My daily Vikes don't do anything to help my D, and withdrawal from them didn't cause more D than I would normally have.The only thing that has ever helped my diarrhea, which I can't spell, is calcium for which I thank God and Linda. Now I can go out and play with my Girl Scouts again!














Angie in Texas, US


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Different narcotics have different affects on bowel and brain pain receptors, as I mentioned before they are investigating some narcotics for the treatment of IBS, as they figure out pain receptors both in the gut and brain, so they don't do more harm then good in the treatment specifically for IBS and viceral hypersensitivty.It should be noted they are making great progress in pain in general.Another issue with IBS is it is important to treat the whole person using a more intergrated approach, especially in moderate to severe IBS. This includes diet and lifestyle modifications and education, not just a narcotic or pill or even anti-d's long term and this has been shown in numerous studies to be effective and works more on the root triggers.There are important differences in immodium and vicodin or morphine or other narcotics in how they work and their mechanisms of action.Immodium for the most part has been shown to be safe and I believe does not effect pain receptors but would have to look that up as well. Immodium can increase bloating in IBS by its constipating effects, which is also another issue with narcotics, which might increase bloating and nausea and sometimes even vomiting. There are also important psycological issues as well in impaired functioning.The side effect then can contribute to triggers to the underlying IBS and another vicious cycle is set up.There are almost always options out there to try. and again its usally an integrated approach, but the person has to be motivated to try things for the most part and that can be hard sometimes as we all know its hard to be motivated when in pain and having bowel issues.I have not been able to find any study on IBS and tramadol. I have found some interesting information however. I need to ask some people about it also in regards to IBS."Inhibition of intestinal peristalsis is a major side effect of opioid analgesics. Although tramadol is an opioid-like analgesic, its effect on gut motility is little known. ""In addition to its low affinity to opioid receptors, tramadol exerts a modulatory effect on central monoaminergic pathways. In this respect, there are parallels between the mechanisms of the action of tramadol and antidepressants such as amitriptyline."http://www.anesthesia-analgesia.org/cgi/co.../full/93/5/1288I found some more information, but lost it and will have to search again, I have to say how it works is interesting and could possibly be something in regards to IBS, but since there is no drug trials for it nd IBS I am wondering about it. It does effect gut pain receptors though, so that is an important issue. It also has some problems with anti d' and drug intereactions.This is another discussion on it worth reading.http://www.medhelp.org/forums/addiction/messages/30264a.htmlThis is information on the causes of pain in IBS.Its also MAJORALLY important to recgonize the important roles of NORMAL and ABNORMAL stress, anxiety and depression in people with IBS and how that contributes to the physiology of pain and interpration and reactions to it. A lot of people may not fully appraciate the roles these things paly and may needlessly suffer because of it. Again why its important to holitically treat the whole person, not just the gut specifically or with a single pill.


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Cottonwood said:


> As one who is looking for other options, would you mind telling us what has worked for you?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Link to my story is below in the sig.And I agree that some people may need strong medications and there are times when they are worth the risk. With anything, IMO, it is better to know the risks ahead of time rather than find out later when you don't have a choice. Usually with things that are hard to get there are reasons they don't hand them out all the time. It isn't because doctors just want to torture people, it is because the risk of long term harm has to be balanced against short term benefit.K.


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## Auntiecyn2 (Aug 11, 2007)

I've taken Tramadol for pain and the effects were pretty good. I noticed when I took it that it worked like an opioid in the intestine. It is not an opioid but the withdrawal is similar. No one with the C form of IBS should use it. If it works for you then good. This darn condition can ruin your life. If you have to withdraw from it be prepared for some pretty bad intestinal pain. If you have a good doctor who is willing to prescribe it long term and it works, then what the heck. Why not? There are worse things than being habituated to Tramadol.


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## MyOwnSavior (Dec 21, 2006)

Wow, I'm away for a little while and this thread balloons to insane lengths (well, at least compared to other threads on here).Anyway, just as an update for those who are interested, I recently saw my doctor and had no luck getting Tramadol. Even the possibility of using it was quickly dismissed... the point was basically made (a point that I had not heard before, by the way) that Narcotics (Tramadol in particular) would basically "shut down the bowel". And so, while the Tramadol would temporarily relieve my pain, I would "pay later" and would end up being "in more pain than I could imagine". Naturally I was somewhat suspicious of those claims, given that I've not heard one person on here say anything like that... granted we can potentially develop "narcotic bowel syndrome", but that only occurs if you've used for a long period of time...So anyway I ended up getting put on another SSRI antidepressant, which evidently are the only (according to my doctor, anyway) drugs that can safely treat IBS pain... or they are the ones that have had the most success, or something. I don't know. I would have liked to have been given just a few samples of _something_, though, just to treat the pain when it gets really bad. But again, my doctor seemed to think that it would cause me severe pain later on (in the same day, evidently)...Thing is, I was hesitant about Tramadol anyway, just because I'm usually fine when I'm up and about. It's when I'm sitting down for extended periods of time that I get severe pain... in fact sometimes it only takes a little bit of sitting down, which is why there are periods of time when I will go without posting on forums, checking my email, etc...it's just too painful sitting in front of the computer...Still, I've heard antidepressants take a while to kick in, so I'll wait and see... if this one doesn't work, though, I don't know where to go...


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## twocups (Jul 4, 2007)

granted antidepressnats help some..................butt not nearly as many as drs. claim I'm sure! Plus it made mine WORSE. Plus those things are just as miserable to get off of after taken for long periods also.


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## anth (Jun 3, 2006)

i got prescribed tramadol by my doctor for early mornings where I'm gonna be in pain. Had an early breakfast a while ago at a restaurant and I was in real bad pain, didn't think I was going to get through it, couldn't even concentrate on what people were saying, couldnt eat anything, nausea etc. Today I had the exact same thing, so I took two 50 mg capsules of tramadol, and I was a totally different person, I was eating, even drinking coffee and felt great and was able to talk and listen. I got prescribed by my doctor for early mornings when my symptoms are worse and thats exactly what ill use it for but I really would love to use it every day but yeah I don't know what that'll do and I dont have the supply to do so. Anyways, its the best thing ive tried for pain and I didn't need to go to the toilet once.


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## 18438 (Dec 14, 2006)

I have to go with Eric on this one, and all the info on narcotic bowel syndrome. I personally would rather not risk taking a drug like this just to get some relief, but its up to the individual to weigh the risks and benefits and that is the reason for posting all of the info, so people know what could happen instead of going blindly on what worked for someone else. I found some info as well: from wikiSome controversy exists regarding the dependence liability of tramadol. Grünenthal has promoted it as an opioid with a low risk of opioid dependence compared to traditional opioids, claiming little evidence of such dependence in clinical trials. They offer the theory that since the M1 metabolite is the principal agonist at μ-opioid receptors, the delayed agonist activity reduces dependence liability. The noradrenaline reuptake effects may also play a role in reducing dependence.Despite these claims it is apparent, in community practice, that dependence to this agent does occur. This would be expected since analgesic and dependence effects are mediated by the same μ-opioid receptor. However, this dependence liability is considered relatively low by health authorities, such that tramadol is classified as a Schedule 4 Prescription Only Medicine in Australia, rather than as a Schedule 8 Controlled Drug like other opioids (Rossi, 2004). Similarly, tramadol is not currently scheduled by the U.S. DEA, unlike other opioid analgesics. Nevertheless, the Prescribing Information for Ultram warns that tramadol "may induce psychological and physical dependence of the morphine-type." In addition, there are widespread reports by consumers of extremely difficult withdrawal experiences. [citation needed]A controlled study that compared different medications found "the percent of subjects who scored positive for abuse at least once during the 12-month follow-up were 2.5% for NSAIDs, 2.7% for tramadol, and 4.9% for hydrocodone. When more than one hit on the [dependency] algorithm was used as a measure of persistence, abuse rates were 0.5% for NSAIDs, 0.7% for tramadol, and 1.2% for hydrocodone. Thus, the results of this study suggest that the prevalence of abuse/dependence over a 12-month period in a CNP population that was primarily female was equivalent for tramadol and NSAIDs, with both significantly less than the rate for hydrocodone."another one:http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m068..._54/ai_n8705004it is possible to become addicted to it, and withdraw from it, be dependant on it. Im not saying you shouldnt take it or try it, it is up to the individual but you have to be aware of the risks. It never ceases to amaze me how blindly people take drugs from doctors, not just pain killers but psychotropic meds as well, always always know the risk, side effects and how they work. Doctors arent the be all and end all of medication and what you should do.


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Twocups"granted antidepressnats help some..................butt not nearly as many as drs. claim I'm sure! Plus it made mine WORSE. Plus those things are just as miserable to get off of after taken for long periods also."There is a better chance of Narcotics making it worse long term as well. That is important.Only a few people here have said there doctors actually give them to people. I am sure they control the amounts then.A big difference is they do not increase pain even more and if you wean yourself its the way to get off them without it usally being severe. Also since reaserch has clearly implicated serotonin and serotonin transmission from the gut to the brain in IBS, they are used on that transmission, since serotonin is the neurotransmitter involved in sending the transmission and sensations in regards to viceral hypersensivity. Its a target for therapies. Some people might also ask the docttor about lotronex program perhaps if things are really severe.Or zelnorm in c people.Clearly long term narcotics are not good for c or c/d people.I also don't think personally they should be used for just d reasons. But specifically for pain when indicated.altered serotonin signaling and ibs compilationhttp://www.ibsgroup.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=80198Also for someone like myself who has taken all kinds of drugs for IBS, the anxiety of taking narcotics or other drugs for me contributed to my IBS attacks as well. The feeling of being a walking medicince cabinet was in itself a problem as well as deep down I really didn';t want to take all those drugs all the time to begin with, even when they helped some, like valium. I was on valium for two years. I worried about its effects on my body as a whole like my kidneys and liver. So for me taking drugs had mental implications as well.I actually feel better more times then not when npt taking all the otc's and meds personally, but that is just me. Again almost nothing worked or worked well or worked for long periods of time.Ask the Experts about General Gastroenterologyfrom Medscape GastroenterologyUse of Antidepressants in the Treatment of IBS?http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/451650also you mentioned you have tried everything, but so far all you have mentioned is drugs. There not the only options of course.My own savior, you should look into progressive muscle relaxation, it sounds like you could benefit from that as a lot of IBSers could.We also know through numerous studies and research both HT and CBT are effective in IBS. HT has a high sucess rate for pain in IBS, again even when there is no psychological comorbid conditions. These methods works in similar ways to antidepressants and are much safer with virtually no side effects and last long term. They need to be mentioned here.Why Consider Hypnosis Treatment for IBS?by Olafur S. Palsson, Psy.D.Hypnosis is only one of several approaches to treating irritable bowel syndrome and may not be the most suitable option for all patients (click here for discussion of treatment options for IBS). However, hypnosis treatment has some advantages which makes it an attractive option for many IBS sufferers with chronic and severe symptoms:- It is one of the most successful treatment approaches for chronic IBS. The response rate to treatment is 80% and better in most published studies to date. - The treatment often helps individuals who have failed to get improvements with other methods (see for example: Whorwell et al., 1984, 1987; Palsson et al., 1997, 2000).- It is a uniquely comfortable form of treatment; relaxing, easy and generally enjoyable.- It utilizes the healing power of the person's own mind, and is generally completely without negative side effects. - The treatment sometimes results in improvement in other symptoms or problems such as migraine or tension headaches, along with the improvement in IBS symptoms.- The beneficial effects of the treatment last long after the end of the course of treatment. According to research, individuals who improve from hypnosis treatment for IBS can generally look forward to years of reduced bowel symptoms. http://www.ibshypnosis.com/whyhypnosis.htmlHypnotherapeutic options. Hypnotherapy has been shown in randomized studies to improve IBS symptoms.[37] Simren and associates[38] evaluated 26 patients with refractory IBS; 13 were randomized to receive gut-directed hypnotherapy and 13 to receive supportive therapy. Colonic sensory thresholds were evaluated before and after lipid infusion. The study authors found that there were higher colonic baseline tones present in the hypnotherapy group compared with the control group at 3 months. Phasic motor events were similar in both groups, but hypnotherapy appeared to reduce colonic hypersensitivity to lipid infusion. Presumably, hypnotherapy alters colonic function via central mechanisms, but this remains to be ascertained. Gonsalkorale and colleagues[39] followed up with 239 patients who had undergone gut-directed hypnotherapy between 1 and 5 years previously. They found that 83% of patients reported that their symptoms had remained controlled since the end of hypnotherapy, and that only 17% had suffered some deterioration. Quality of life also remained improved, but these observations were uncontrolled. Therefore, gut-directed hypnotherapy should be considered an option for patients who have persistent symptoms despite standard therapy and who do not have significant psychologic comorbidity."http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/434526In clinical studies it has shown to help 80% of people with pain.1 out of three statistically with antidressants are helped and 8 out of 10 with HT. HT has actually been shown to improve more global symptoms and even non gi symptoms that are commonly found in IBS.Were also down playing the important relationships to worry, fear, depression, stress, anxiety, antisipatory anxiety and other emotional states and the contribution they play on triggering attacks, maintaining attacks and as well as preventive methods to keep from getting them.These things open up the pain gate.And even comorbid conditions.Another plus to these methods is the effect a lot of IBSers with d have in regards to the fight or flight responce as opposed to the relaxtion response. On the parasympathetic nervous system and sympathetic nervous system.This is part of thatFYI"You have two brains: one in your head and another in your gut. Dr. Jackie D. Wood is a renowned physiologist at The Ohio State University. He calls the second brain, "the-little-brain-in-the-gut." This enteric nervous system is part of the autonomic nervous system and contains over one hundred million neurons, which is as many as are in the spinal cord. This complex network of nerves lines the walls of the digestive tract form the esophagus all the way down to the colon. This little brain in the gut is connected to the big brain by the vagus nerves, bundles of nerve fibers running from the GI tract to the head. All neurotransmitters, such as serotonin that are found in the brain are also present in the gut.*Dr Wood has discovered that this little-brain-in-the-gut has programs that are designed for our protection and which are very much like computer programs. They respond to perceived threats in the same way that the limbic system or the emotional brain does. So the threat of a gastrointestinal infection can activate the program that increases gut contractions in order to get rid of the infection. The symptoms are abdominal cramping and diarrhea. *Dr. Wood has determined that a type of cell found in the body and the gut, called the mast cell, is a key to understanding the connection of the big brain in the head with the little-brain-in-the-gut. Mast cells are involved in defense of the body. In response to certain threats or triggers, such as pollen or infection, mast cells release chemicals, such as histamine, that help to fight off the invader. Histamine is one of the chemicals that causes the symptoms of an allergy or a cold. When an infection of the gut occurs, such as food poisoning or gastroenteritis, the mast cells of the gut release histamine. The little-brain-in-the-gut interprets the mast cell signal of histamine release as a threat and calls up a protective program designed to remove the threat â€" at the expense of symptoms: abdominal pain and diarrhea. *The brain to mast cell connection has a direct clinical relevance for irritable bowel syndrome and other functional gastrointestinal syndromes. It implies a mechanism for linking allostasis and the good stress response to irritable states (e.g., abdominal pain and diarrhea) of the gut. Mast cells can be activated to release histamine in response to perceived psychological stress, whether the stressor or trigger is consciously perceived or not. So the end result is the same as if an infection activated the program in the-little-brain-in-the-gut: abdominal pain and diarrhea."*http://www.parkviewpub.com/nuggets/n5.html On this board alone I can pick out thousands and thousands examples of the above happening in IBS poster here.You can see the above happening pretty commonly in d predominate IBS. Both serotonin containing EC cells and mast cells are important in D predominate IBS. The mast cells release histimine onto the smooth muscle of the gut and that irritates the tissue and can contribute to the pain in IBS.Calming the brain gut axis psychophysiological as its refered to can have a major effect on IBS symptoms and pain. Simply thoughts and emtions cause negative or positive chemical reactions in the body. Understanding these links can help a lot. IT will also help fatique, sleep, your immune system, focus, clear thinking and has many other benefits, some of which importantly contribute to the attacks like lack of sleep. Another major plus is these things continue to work after the treatment ends, unlike drugs where the symptoms come back when you stop.JUst fyi because this to can help people with pain and tense gut muscles and when you practice this for a couple weeks it can get easier to do, so you can have some control over your gut pain.Mike suggests How to Relax Your Tummy Muscles Firstly you have identified that your stomach is not relaxing. However you knwo it can, becuase you have done it in the past. OK so just take a few mo's and study your breathing.. If your chest rises when you breathe in then you are taking big breaths, not deep breaths which you should be A deep breathe is when you chest stays still, and your tummy moves out. To get it as it as it should: First lie down. Put a book on your tummy, and breathe your breathe into your tummy and feel the book begining to rise. (Don't force your tummy muscles out - let the breath fill your tummy )<You will have to concentrate a little to start with. Do this with your eyes open. Once you are doing that comfortably, put the book on your chest. breathe into your tummy and keep the book still. Your tummy should move, not your chest. This happens quite naturally at night when we sleep - (assuming you don't have any breathing health problems)Do this with your eyes open too.When you have mastered that, put the book back onto your tummy, take gentle breaths and breathe into your tummy under the book again. This time with your eyes closed. Then after 6 successful deep breathes, open your eyes, put the book back on your chest, close your eyes and let the breathe go into the tummy again, chest remaining still. OK, When you can do this, do it without the book. You will notice a difference in the calming, and your stomach relaxing. To help think of each breathe having a relaxing colour, and the colour relaxes your stomach even more. Try this a few times a day and let me know how you go on. This is just gentle control of breathing patterns. So easy, we do it in our sleep anyway. http://www.ibsgroup.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=40068So there are coping methods and different approaches to IBS treatments as well as medications which have a role as well as diet. These are intergrated approaches.


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## twocups (Jul 4, 2007)

i repeat, zoloft, paxil, elavail.........all made my D much worse


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Does the doctor prescribe narcotics to you for IBS?Do you rely solely on medications in treating your IBS?FYIThe best new pain cures, with a focus on womenWhile not specifically IBS info, it as some good info on pain.also"The reason? Pain actually causes the brain to fire off a stress response that, over time, makes nerves more and more sensitive -- and thus better able to telegraph intense pain to you. In other words, pain actually begets pain."http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/06/21/pain....tion=cnn_latestPain itself is a real threat to the organism as well as mentaly a perceived threat worrying when the next attack will be."Recent studies point to an increased sensitivity of the sensory nerves in the intestines. Normal movements of your intestines may be perceived as cramps or other discomfort.The intestines share nerve pathways with the brain. In many situations, when the brain reacts to something - like the sound of a dentist's drill - the intestines, or gut, pick up the same signals and react.The majority of people will ultimately have some kind of gastrointestinal (GI) symptom when exposed to stressful situations. If your GI system is a bit too reactive, you will experience symptoms in more types of stressful situations than someone else will whose gut is not quite as reactive. What is stressful for one person may not be stressful to another, and lots of people don't even realize it when they get stressed - they just feel sick.*Finally, there is the "gate theory" of how pain is experienced. When pain originates at some point, nerve messages pass through something like a gate on their way to the brain. The wider open the gate is, the more pain that is experienced. By thinking about and focusing on the pain site, we open the gate. Plus, feelings of anger or worry or sadness can open the gate.However, we can also help close the gate. Turning attention away from the site or feeling of pain, through relaxation or focusing on some other activity, can help close the gate and lessen or even eliminate pain.A well-known phenomenon that demonstrates this is that of the athlete who plays a game while injured, oblivious to the pain. The athlete is completely focused on the game and does not feel pain. Then, after the game is over, the athlete turns attention to the injury and feels pain.*Whatever the cause, you can do something about it! It takes some effort but there a number of ways that you can help yourself.First, think about this example. Have you ever experienced a muscle cramp or a side-ache during strenuous running or exercise? You feel real pain in muscles that are not diseased. But they have been stressed beyond some point that in you causes discomfort. What do you do to avoid it in the future? You might think about what you were doing that resulted in the muscle pain. Maybe next time you do more warm-up exercises, or start out slower, or don't run as far.The first time you felt a side-ache, you might have felt concerned and stopped running. After you learned that it was nothing to be concerned about, you may have barely taken notice the next time it happened, perhaps slowed down a bit, but then kept right on going.This is the same type of thing that happens with functional recurrent abdominal pain. Your intestinal muscles may be causing you to feel pain. To get it under control, try this:While the pain you feel is very real, do not worry that you are sick. You are not. Your body is reacting to events in a way that is causing you discomfort but is not cause for alarm. Try to figure out if your symptoms are connected with anything else that may be triggering them. Do symptoms flare at certain times, before certain events, on weekdays, on weekends, etc? If you can identify triggering factors (like certain foods or activities) you can try to avoid them, or if that is not possible, try to deal with them in different ways. http://www.aboutkidsgi.org/site/about-gi-h...ut-gi-disorders


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

FYIMind-Body-Pain Connection: How Does It Work?By Michael Henry JosephWebMD Live Events Transcript http://www.webmd.com/content/article/1/1700_50465.htmIs That Stomach Pain All in Your Head?WebMD Feature from "Health"By Sharon BooneCut stress and that irritable bowel may disappear. http://www.webmd.com/ibs/features/stomach-pain-your-headGut Feelings: The Surprising Link Between Mood and Digestion (A Healthy Me, 2001)http://www.ahealthyme.com/article/primer/101186767The Neurobiology of Stress and EmotionsWe often hear the term "stress" associated with functional gastrointestinal (GI) disorders, such as irritable bowel syndrome (IBS). Many patients experience a worsening of symptoms during times of severely stressful life events. But what is stress? How often does it occur? How does our body respond to stress? This article explores the mechanisms that link stress and emotions to responses that have evolved to ensure survival and that, in the modern world, affect health-including gastrointestinal function. Introduction Stress is an adaptive response that is not unusual or unique to only certain individuals. In humans and animals, internal mechanisms have developed throughout evolution, which allow the individual to maximize their chances of survival when confronted with a stressor. *A stressor in this context is any situation that represents an actual or perceived threat to the balance (homeostasis) of the organism. In a wide variety of real, life threatening situations-such as an actual physical assault or a natural disaster-stress induces a coordinated biological, behavioral, and psychological response*http://ibs.med.ucla.edu/Articles/PatientArticle003.htmStress and GI Symptoms"These questions and many more like them are often asked by patients with GI disorders. They are also asked by physicians who are confronted with a confusing set of symptoms and few "objective" physiological markers for disease (like infections or blockage). As you might expect there are no simple answers, but new research has begun to point the way to a better picture of how stress and GI problems might be linked and even ways to address the role of stress in treatment. *The first thing to remember is that stress has a strong impact on the GI tract in everyone. *It is well known that patients with IBS often report that stressful events precede the onset or exacerbation of IBS symptoms. In one survey study for example 73% of IBS patients reported that stress altered their stool pattern, and *84% reported that stress led to abdominal pain*. Interestingly in the same study 54% of persons without IBS also reported stress altered stool patterns and 68% reported stress caused abdominal pain. While affecting everyone, stress does seem to more strongly impact GI function in persons with IBS or similar disorders, such as dyspepsia, or chronic heartburn. In a recent study examining IBS patients over a several year period, up to 90% of the fluctuations in symptoms could be predicted by chronic stressors during the several preceding months. Another recent study examined patients who developed an acute GI infection (often after traveling in a foreign country). Most of the subjects recovered over a period of a few weeks with treatment but a significant percentage seemed to develop chronic symptoms similar to IBS. Level of stress during the three months prior to the infection was a strong predictor of who did and did not develop these chronic symptoms. Thus while stress is not the sole cause of IBS some stress clearly play a significant role in generating and prolonging symptoms in susceptible individuals, especially those with some GI symptoms. "http://ibs.med.ucla.edu/Articles/PatientAr...l99StressGI.htmall pain is processed in the brain. This is all why its important to treat the whole person their gut and their brain which is consistently showing more positive results then in the past in treating IBS.


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## twocups (Jul 4, 2007)

I've suffered through burning yellow bile filled D that makes my bowels burn and spasm and is not relieved by defecation ( in fact it hurts more) I do still have my gallbladder though and they find no stones in it or whatever ( so explain that to me?). I've tried every antispasmotic, antidepressant, cologenic steriod,antianxiety, etc etc. to no avail. The only things that help are immoium and Questran ( which I had to request from the dr. myself after learning about it on this forum). They can't explain my situation , I've had several colonoscopy's, CT's scans, barium tests. All that show nothing.


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## 18438 (Dec 14, 2006)

how long were you on antids twocups? If you answer less then a month for any of them, well then you cant know if they would work for you. It is common to get c or d for the first few weeks of taking an antid, the side effects wear off as you continue taking them. It also takes 4-6 weeks to feel positive effects from the antids so stopping them sooner, you wouldnt know if they could have helped. Also if you suffer from anxiety. sometimes a combination of these meds is needed. Im on paxil cr and seroquel, and I definantly didnt feel better just from paxil alone, for anxiety at least. I also had D for the first week of taking paxil and that went away. I dont think eric is trying to change your views on what you think is your only option, I think he is trying to show you that it is a huge risk and that there are alternatives that are much safer.


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## twocups (Jul 4, 2007)

but the point is....................................I've tried all the other stuff...............been in this game for 25 YEARS..................... I do take Immodium and Questran also.................they help........................most everything else has made mine worse........................... when you've tried everything else over the years and you finally find something that WORKS AND HELPS YOU LIVE A LIFE. I dont' understand why people would be so against it. You wouldn't expect people to just live with back pain all their lives if they have tried physical therapy, etc. etc. .... No ...you would give them something to help them live..........................many take narcotics everyday to help them live.............. I don't know why it is so controlversial for IBS-D patients...........................


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## 18438 (Dec 14, 2006)

its contraversial for any patient not just IBS, narcotics are not something to mess around with, esp when people look for the easy way out. If you have really tried everything and nothing worked then ok, but a lot of people will try only a handful of things and then go the easy route, choosing to ignore the multitude of bad side effects risks etc just so they dont have to think about it anymore. No one is saying that you shouldnt do it, but saying that you should fully explore your options and be 100% aware of what you are doing.BTW Im not questioning how many things you have tried, I was questioning the way you did it. IE how long on antids before going off of them, as that is important in attaining treatment from them.


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## twocups (Jul 4, 2007)

the truth is.........I think I have something different than IBS-D. Hence the burning yellow D that I have daily without meds such as Questran and IMmodium................. As I've said before " I still have my gallbladder" yet I have syptoms as if I"ve had mine out. The drs. simply don't know what to do with me , as I've had about 4-5 over the years. Hence, after all the tests etc. come back negative and I"ve tried their meds ( all the alloted time periods) they still dont' know what to do because I have the same syptoms.............. I"m made to feel like there is something wrong with me................and they simply do not try to help me any further....................the problem isn't with me..................they simply do not have all the answers and I am not one of the many who fit into the MIND -BODY connection. I've done the CBT also to no avail. There is nothing wrong with me..........I just dont' fit into the MOLD that they have a treatment schedule for ............... so they ( and you all ) dismiss me ( and so many others .have you looked on the IBS-D board.?....................countless there have had no help either). I say..................when all else has failed...............give me soemthing so I can function and live a decent life..........................................


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## 13540 (Aug 18, 2005)

they only thing that helps me with nausea is xanax so far!


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