# THE RESULTS ARE IN!



## Lookin'foraLife (Jan 2, 2009)

The results for the specialized testing in the Metametrix lab that I paid so much for are finally in. Methodology: DNA Analysis, GC/MS, Microscopic,Colorimetric, Automated Chemistry, ELISA"Yeast/Fungi; taxonomy unavailable. +1 => 100 pg DNA/g specimen A TU finding may indicate ingested mold. The higher the number, the greater the indication fortreatment, particularly when accompanied by clinical symptoms."Parasite present; taxonomy unavailable. Positive "A TU finding likely indicates an ingested protozoan and not a human parasite. It does not indicatetreatment unless patient symptoms and other inflammatory markers are consistent with parasiteinfection."I was actually treated with protocide and flagyl when all this IBS-C nightmare began and it didn't help.So what do I do with these results now? Can these finding really explain all the severe IBS symptoms I've been having for a year now?What treatment is available?ANYBODY?


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

I don't know much about this at all.. but I did a quick look for you and found this site:http://www.mold-survivor.com/BQ


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## IanRamsay (Nov 23, 2008)

in short mate, they say the same thing that they have said on all teh reports that i have seen from metametrix. which is basically, there is nothing alarming there but we dont know what is there, but there is definately something there, wheather it is a human thing or a foriegn thing, we dont know.They are basically a huge waste of time and money mate. it wouldent surprise me if they asked you for some more money to do more tests to help explain the tests that they have already done. at least that seems to be the way that they work. the best way to get these type of tests done is through your doctor or specialist. they are done in real labs, with real bacterial specialists who know what they are doing. it is also worth bearing in mind that every human being alive over teh age of 3 years old WILL HAVE AT LEAST 1 TYPE OF PARASITE present in they Guts with out any symptoms at all, and it wont be doing you any harm either, and it will be there indefinately. this would explain why metametrix tests are ALWAYS Positive for parasites. and they never seem to be exactly sure what they are either. so dont worry too much about that.Speak to your doctor mate.CheersIanP.S. Oh and +1 on the mould is nothing to worry about. if it was +4 it would be a different story.


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## Lookin'foraLife (Jan 2, 2009)

A big waste of time? Great, now you tell me Ian!Really, how the hell am I supposed to treat a protozoa if they can't tell me what type?! What did I pay them for?!But my doctor claimed intestinal yeast overgrowth doesn't even exist in people if they don't have serious illness like AIDS, so how does even +1 make sense?The test also shows I'm low on: Predomnant bacteria Prevotella and Streptomyces, low on n-Butyrate and Fecal sigA and on Elastase 1. Is there anything here at all I could use to get a clue what the hell is wrong with my system and what to do about it? I'm seriously at my rope's end....


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Usually in IBS what is wrong is that the nerves sensing and controlling the gut are a bit haywire.Now there isn't much to test for those (although there is one test that looks a the abnormalities you find in IBS bloodwork and has a few things that test for other illnesses so it give you a likely IBS or likely something else result)http://www.ibsbloodtest.com/ FWIW they got a lot of the blood samples from the functional GI clinic I go to, so I'm part of the set used to determine the IBSers from the have nothing from the have something else. Anywho, there isn't all that many ways to find which nerve is wonked out no matter what is wrong with the nervous system (unless it is something big and obvious which you don't find in the gut).For the most part the things that do well in clinical trials for IBS are things that target various receptors on nerves or other nerve things. But i f you need a picture of what % of nerves in what sections of the neural net are the problem it isn't likely you will get anything like that for the foreseeable future.Probiotics of various types do help a lot of people if you only want to work on the colon flora and not the nerves. They do interact with us so some do seem to help calm things down and all of them (if they establish in you) should reduce gas volume (which can trigger symptoms) as they don't metabolize carbohydrates all the way to a gas. They stop before they get there unlike most other bacteria in the gut.Medical doctors never find unusual levels of yeast inside anyone that is generally healthy's gut. Some people carry a few of them around but usually can't do much with the few in there unless your body is seriously out of whack in a way you can't control the growth of any micro-organism in the body in anyway anymore or are on such chronic doses of antibiotics that you throw the whole microbiota of the body for a complete loop. Either thing is going to make you a lot sicker than any IBSer. A handful of yeast (or even if you had all yeast and no bacteria at all) is not going to make more gas out of the carbs than anything else. They make the exact same number of molecules of gas as any bacteria ever does. There are only so many hydrogen, carbon, and oxygen molecules in a glucose molecule. You can't make more gas than you have substrate.The yeast hypothesis came out in the 1970's the less proof there was it was the cause of all disease in all humans the less medical doctors believe it could be a problem. That same lack of proof seems to fuel some alternative philosophies of health to find some way to prove all humans must have huge amounts of yeast in them. A lot of those tests are fairly meaningless as you send a completely healthy person with no symptoms of anything to get tested and they come back loaded up with the same whatever the test says all sick people must have. It does help sell treatments if they can show you scary looking test results. Sometimes the treatments work (often for well understood reasons that have nothing to do with yeast) sometimes they don't, but they do work for enough people that it keeps the industry going. The Candida thing has stuck around longer than some of the other fad diagnosis to explain all illness in all people regardless of test results. The latest (now that hyperglycemia isn't fashionable anymore) is adrenal insufficiency. Although some of the things use to treat that even when your blood tests are all normal sound like the same things to treat Candida or treat hyperglycemia (at least diet wise) so I dunno how much difference it makes which one they say you have.FWIW, some of the supplements and the diet proposed for Candida do happen to help some IBSers so it doesn't hurt to do the diet for a month or so to see if that sort of low carb thing make you feel better.


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## IanRamsay (Nov 23, 2008)

Intestinal yeast overgrowth does exist, and i have seen actual proof of this, but to what extent affects each individual is almost as long as the proverbial piece of string. what would make me feel like i have downed a flagon of ardvark snot may not bother you in the slightest, where as some one who has aids would probably feel like the world was ending.treating things like bacterial overgrowth, yeast and fungal presence in general and parasite infectin is sadly still a completely personal thing, you have throw the book at it untill you find a chapter that works. i had to throw the entire encyclopedia at mine and 12 years later finally found the page that explained the solution. This is completely off subject, but a friend is currently working on a study that has found indication that things like H Pylori etc may be caused by bacteria that grow on the teeth that are then ingested. ill let you know how that goes. but my friend thinks a simple solution could be applied in the form of targeted anti negative bacteria-pro biotics. if this is the case, the possibility of further study in to targeted bacterial therapy is promising. sadly, metametrix dont seem to have given you any info that you can use in a meaningfull way, and even if they did, they probably wouldent offer a treatment plan. i know this sounds silly, but you must take the course of action that you feel is correct, over and over again untill you find something that works. i know it is of absolutely no help, but you will get there in teh end.cheersIan


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## Lookin'foraLife (Jan 2, 2009)

Thanks for all your responses. Kathleen- That blood test looks interesting but they don't offer it in my country. I'm not certain I really have IBS, mostly because of all the additional neurological symptoms that began shortly before the onset of IBS and endure to this day. Is there some way other than trials and errors with antidepressants that I could discover whether gut-nerve treatment would help me? Say, maybe give Xanax a short run just to see if there's any improvement?Ian- I'm so disillusioned with the lab testing. I've tried about 10 different probiotics already and I can't say they've improved anything by me. Can't say that at this point I have much of a treatment direction going. I'm just trying everything systematically.


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## M&M (Jan 20, 2002)

Have you tried yet keeping a very thorough symptom log? You can use that to try to organize your symptoms a bit, and get a look at the bigger picture.It would be like buying a calendar or planner with either 1 day per page, or really big squares - then write down everything you do everyday - what you eat and drink, when you eat, start rating your pain levels from 1-10, rate your fatigue levels from 1-10 each day, write down what time you go to bed, how long you sleep, what time you wake up, write down that day's specific neurological symptoms and their severity, how many BMs you have, what their texture/consistency is...I mean write down every single symptom. Sure it seems anal retentive, but it can really help you narrow down your exact symptoms, and see what might make them worse or what might help them get a little better.That way you can really get your symptoms organized, and maybe even make some correlations between them. If you've already done this, please disregard my message, but if you haven't, it sure can't hurt to try. You'll only be out the cost of a calendar and a pen! Keep the log for several weeks, or until your next doctors appointment. Then, before your appointment, review the log. Make a list of your top 5 symptoms, and try to pinpoint and write down any patterns you see in those particular symptoms. Then you'll have a symptom list to address with your doctor, and you'll have lots of detailed, accurate info to share with them when they start asking you questions about your symptoms. I did that when I was first searching for a diagnosis and some answers. The doctors were VERY thankful for all the good info, even if it was more than they needed. lol


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Well I don't know if there is any type of IBS that does not in anyway involve the gut-brain axis. Every functional disorder seems to be a problem in the control system which always involves the nervous system to some extent. That is why they are pretty universally treated with things like antidepressants. I haven't seen on proven to be 100% caused by something else in anyone. Sometimes non-nervous system treatments can help, but usually at some level they eventually track back to the nervous system (reducing trigger symptoms, etc.)I don't know that they will give you a highly addictive drug for a few weeks just to see what it does just in case. If you have anxiety it may make the IBS better because it treats the anxiety and anxiety so I'm not sure that trial will prove anything. Tranquilizers do help the anxious with IBS but I've seen no evidence they help un-anxious people other than make them not care if they have symptoms or not.Tranquilizers can make people that do not need them pretty non-functional (at least when I've taken milder ones than that for surgery or other medical procedures, you need them for that, but they aren't treating an underlying illness, just making me too loopy to care what the doctor is doing to me).If antidepressants are for any reason completely unacceptable to you, you could try St. John's Wort or something herbal like that which sometimes works for depression (St. John's Wort can make you much more likely to get sunburned so wear sunscreen if you use it). Although they do seem to work for depression they seem much more hit or miss with things like IBS, but it can work for some people and may avoid whatever scares you about antidepressants even though getting off xanax can be much worse than stopping antidepressants for some people. For some reason you think that risk is acceptable to you. I'm just not sure you'll get a doctor to go for it. Avoid getting it on the street as you often don't know what is in the pills even if they look legit.


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## idkwia (Feb 26, 2009)

I know a little about Metametrix. I have just read The IBS Solution by Dr Stephen Wangen who is the founder of the IBS Treatement Center in Seattle, USA. Essentially he believes that all IBS has a cause and that he endeavours to find the cause and then treat it. The main things he looks for when meeting a new patient is to test for food intolerance and test for parasites, yeast and bacteria (both good and bad bacteria). It appears that he has excellent success.Because I live in the UK and I don't really want to go to the US I contacted Dr Wangen's clinic to ask them what testing labs they use. They told me that they used to use Doctor's Data but decided to change to Metametrix because they had found them to be much more accurate. I have now found that Metametrix have a distributor in the UK. They have advised that I can only have the test done via a qualified nutritionist or doctor because I will need them to interpret the test findings. So far I have found two nutritionists who are able to interpret the tests. In addition I have been advised that the doctor or practitioner will be able to contact Metametrix if necessary to provide more information. I have also been advised that if they do find anything nasty then they will also provide information on how to treat it.I would also say that I have done quite a lot of research on this and it makes perfect sense that you can pick up certain bacteria and parasites which can certainly present problems similar to those in IBS. In addition there is a clinic in London called the IBS and Gut Disorder Clinic who also arrange similar tests but these are with Doctor's Data.So essentially, as far as I can see it is perfectly reasonable that you have had this test done but you need someone who is qualified to interpret it - after all if your doctor gave you the results of a simple blood test from the lab it probably wouldn't mean anything.If it turns out that your test shows everything is in order then at least you can move your search for a solution elsewhere.


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## Lookin'foraLife (Jan 2, 2009)

Hi all, thanks for the responses.M&M- I used to keep a symptom diary but nothing as extensive as you've suggested. My diet is the same everyday and so far my symptoms seem to attack randomly. I haven't been able to note any pattern except the wrong food and portions make things worse.Kathleen- My only use for antidepressants would be to hopefully treat the IBS. I'm so hesitant because I've had really bad side effects to it in the past, including physical shaking, feeling drugged up and not being able to wake up till the evening, even on the lowest dose possible! I was told this is temporary but I couldn't even continue 4 days like that. If I'm not 100% certain it will even help in the long run then why suffer so?idikwia- I'll be seeing my nutritionist soon for an explanation of the results. I'm just really disappointed and annoyed the results weren't more accurate: exactly what type of yeast do I have and which protozoa? You need that information to properly treat these conditions! They are supposed to supply it.


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## idkwia (Feb 26, 2009)

If you need some more confidence in whether these sorts of tests are valid you may like to read the following: -_Irritable bowel syndrome: A review on the role of intestinal protozoa and the importance of their detection and diagnosis References and further reading may be available for this article. To view references and further reading you must purchase this article.D. Starka, , , S. van Hala, D. Marriotta, J. Ellisb and J. HarknessaaSt. Vincent's Hospital, Department of Microbiology, Victoria St., Darlinghurst, NSW2010, Sydney, AustraliabUniversity of Technology Sydney, Department of Medical and Molecular Biosciences, Sydney, AustraliaReceived 31 July 2006; revised 6 September 2006; accepted 19 September 2006. Available online 12 October 2006. AbstractIrritable bowel syndrome (IBS) is a functional gastrointestinal disorder in which abdominal pain is associated with a defect or a change in bowel habits. Gut inflammation is one of the proposed mechanisms of pathogenesis. Recent studies have described a possible role for protozoan parasites, such as Blastocystis hominis and Dientamoeba fragilis, in the etiology of IBS. Dientamoeba fragilis is known to cause IBS-like symptoms and has a propensity to cause chronic infections but its diagnosis relies on microscopy of stained smears, which many laboratories do not perform, thereby leading to the misdiagnosis of dientamoebiasis as IBS. The role of B. hominis as an etiological agent of IBS is inconclusive, due to contradictory reports and the controversial nature of B. hominis as a human pathogen. Although Entamoeba histolytica infections occur predominately in developing regions of the world, clinical diagnosis of amebiasis is often difficult because symptoms of patients with IBS may closely mimic those patients with non-dysenteric amoebic colitis. Clinical manifestations of Giardia intestinalis infection also vary from asymptomatic carriage to acute and chronic diarrhoea with abdominal pain. These IBS-like symptoms can be continuous, intermittent, sporadic or recurrent, sometimes lasting years without correct diagnosis. It is essential that all patients with IBS undergo routine parasitological investigations in order to rule out the presence of protozoan parasites as the causative agents of the clinical signs._More can be seen at http://www.InnateHealthFoundation.org/5_c.htmPlease let us know how you get on with the nutritionist.


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## Lookin'foraLife (Jan 2, 2009)

Thanks alot for that article







! I do believe they may be the culprit though my nutritionist has already claimed they can't be since protozoas supposedly don't stick around for long as opposed to other parasites. In any case, in order to get of them you must know EXACTLY what type of protozoan you have to get proper meds, which is why it's so frustrating that my Metametrix results claim "taxonomy unknow"!


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## overitnow (Nov 25, 2001)

idkwia, this is really interesting: "Gut inflammation is one of the proposed mechanisms of pathogenesis," given that the folks around here define IBS in the absence of such inflammation. In this study, http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlere...i?artid=1382343, it was found that blood platelets which contribute to that inflammation act exactly as blood platelets that contribute to cholesterol deposits and that they should be treatable with the same medicines, which is exactly how I have treated my IBS for 11 years. (This also suggests the link I have suspected, since my success with flavonoid supplementation, between IBS and cardiovascular disease.) I wonder who is right.Mark


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

> Gut inflammation is one of the proposed mechanisms of pathogenesis


Is not chronic ongoing visible inflammation in the gut as you see in Crohn's, etc. It is inflammation during an acute illness and the damage from that short-term issue that is long gone by the time you see the doctor for IBS that is what they are talking about.That is why they never ever see it when they do a colonoscopy. IT is not an ongoing chronic thing. It happened for a few days back when you had the GI illness.That inflammation triggers the damage to the gut nerves is not some new theory of IBS, it is part of the gut-brain axis theory as the triggering event that causes changes in the nervous system.They do see some changes in some immune system cells, but these are invisible and still have to do with the control of the gut, not causing redness, ulcers and anything like that we typically think of when we say "inflammation".Unless we are going to posit that all doctors have always lied about what they see and we all have grossly abnormal colonoscopies that were covered up. They don't see any visible difference between an IBSers colon and a healthy one.


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## M&M (Jan 20, 2002)

Lookin said:


> M&M- I used to keep a symptom diary but nothing as extensive as you've suggested. My diet is the same everyday and so far my symptoms seem to attack randomly. I haven't been able to note any pattern except the wrong food and portions make things worse.


Then it sounds like a detailed symptom log is definitely something you should work on! Sounds like it would be an excellent idea for you.


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## IanRamsay (Nov 23, 2008)

IDKWIAyou have alot to learn mate.cheersian


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## RichardW (Nov 24, 2008)

In my experience (and it was a bad one), nutritionists don't know their arse from their elbow. They won't be able to explain the results because they know as much about human biology as you do. I had to explain to the one I saw how a gallbladder works! Then they put you on some quack diet, e.g. anti candida (is there *any* scientific proof yet for this one?). Forget it, save your money.Sorry to vent but I seriously hate the number of people that feed off IBS sufferers.


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## idkwia (Feb 26, 2009)

Some of you are missing the point.........................................if you have parasites, or bacteria, or an imbalance of gut flora, or yeast then you DON'T have IBS! What you have is parasites or bacteria or an imbalance of gut flora or yeast! You might not have any of these, you might be intolerant to certain foods. If so you DON'T have IBS! What you have is an intolerance to certain foods.The fact is that all of the above may give you similar symptoms to IBS so when you go to the doctor, he doesn't test you for parasites and bacteria etc or food intolerance he just tells you that you have IBS.So Lookin'foralife is just hoping that he doesn't have IBS, he is hoping that he has something else which may be a lot simpler to resolve.


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

No one is saying there aren't other things that have symptoms in common with IBS.However, at some point I think it helps to accept one has IBS and start the treatments known to be effective for IBS rather than assuming it must be something else and only doing treatments for other things that may or may not do any good.I agree he's got things going on that are not IBS. I do think he needs to be evaluated for M.E. and if that fits get the appropriate treatment for that. There are lots of fad diagnosis in the alternative world. They use bits and pieces of science to sound good, and every last one of them lists IBS as a sure sign you really have whichever alternative med. diagnosis any given person is promoting. While some of the alt. med. treatments for the anything but IBS happen to be things that science has found can be effective for some people (like probiotics) some of them are the same thing the prescribe for all other illnesses of all other fad diagnosis. What we really don't know is where in the cause and effect thing the colon flora changes are. We know that some things have some statistical difference between IBSers and non-IBSers. There is no clear cut line where something is only seen in IBSers (or has all the symptoms of IBS, only the symptoms of IBS but really is a something elsers). All of them tend to be found in a goodly number of the asymptomatic. The question still on the table is which comes first. Does the IBS effect the functioning of the colon enough that the ecology naturally changes because the environment is now different, or does the ecology change first. I could see it going either way, and I don't think changes in flora explain everything all IBSers (or not IBSers who have all IBS symptoms and no other symptoms) have, nor do they explain the M.E. type symptoms, I'm not sure they always explain most of the symptoms attributed to "dysbiosis".Now a lot of companies will do a lot of testing and give you all kinds of results about your flora, but so far none of them seem to have any grasp on what that data actually means, or what you can actually do about it. Most of the bacteria they find too low are not cultured up and put in tablets, and like I said some of the things they say are abnormal are found in a fair percentage of the perfectly healthy. We may learn more about that as time goes on, but we really don't have ways to do some surgical strike on the colon flora and make it be statistically average for anyone. That being said. Probiotics (which are normally there but in fairly low in numbers in the colon unless you artificially seed them with fermented milk products or tablets) do help some people with IBS but they are not the only thing, nor are they always the right thing. Some people always get worse on them even if they avoid FOS and other stuff that get added to them. I think it depends on what your flora is to start with and how you react to the change. We know some of the bacteria signal the host, usually to benefit themselves. Sometimes that helps some people, but I could see a way that some people may respond differently to a signal that usually calms symptoms down in most people.


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## IanRamsay (Nov 23, 2008)

IDKWIA, I Know all about bacteria and parasites and gut flora, i really really do. and we are not missing the point. IBS is simply a label given to a collection of abdominal symptoms that dont have a specific targeted illness or treatment ragieme. hence why it is usually diagnosed after everything else has been ruled out. food intolerances are thought to be caused by chemical response malfunction (and experiance based reactions in a mental sense) The chemical response may be caused by bacteria in teh gut, there is still research being done on that. the bottom line is that IBS is a label stuck on the jar with an unknown contense, so to speak, all that you know about the jar is that there is definately something in there. bacterial, chemical, nerve based, psychological, what ever you think is causing your IBS, the solution will eventually be found. i found mine with bacteria. some chaps on here have found it with potent supplimentation, others with therapy. because you have IBS and a doctor hasnt said, well the problem is your iliocecial valve malfunctioning allowing bacteria to back wash in to your small intestines etc or something like that, it dosent mean that what ever is causing your symptoms isnt an actual illness or it cant be treated. it just means that there may not be a recognised or diagnosable illness AT THIS TIME. the fact that people have fixed themselves of all types of IBS means that all of its many parts are all illnesses in their own right, and they all have a kill switch. you just have to find it, and that sadly is what takes so much time.cheersIan


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## karoe (Sep 22, 1999)

*HOLD ON HERE!* I did the metametrix stool profile testing in February and I'm very happy with the results. I've posted under "probiotics" on this board. They found ascaris, and I killed it with four pills. Big improvement. Not a cure, but MUCH better. You need an MD who is a functional medicine doctor to help you interpret the results and start treatments. These test results are a roadmap of things you can try--- but you need someone with experience. Go to the Institutute of Functional Medicine and try the physician locator!! Just your mention of low butyrates.........there is something that can be fixed. Also, read the website of Dr. Leo Galland. It is all about the balance in the gut, and in the whole body for that matter! it's more than one problem and you have to find all the problems and address them all.


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## idkwia (Feb 26, 2009)

Thank you Karoe!The fact is that if you go to the doctor and he says that you have dientamoebiasis or amebiasis or giardia intestinalis then you will be treated for these problems. They are not IBS. The trouble is that their symptoms often mimic the symptoms of IBS and because most doctors don't have access for tests for these types of disease they will tell you that you have IBS.Of course if you have a stool test, a food intolerance test, and other tests and all are normal then you have IBS. And then as Ian says you have to find the thing that works for you.As previously mentioned some research into these types of issues can be found here: http://www.InnateHealthFoundation.org/5_c.htmAlso, whilst I am here, there is a professor of neurogastroenterology in the UK who tells me that his team are on the verge of a major discovery with regard to IBS and the autonomic nervous system i.e. the brain-gut connection. If I find out more I will post it on this site.


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## idkwia (Feb 26, 2009)

LOOKIN'FORALIFE, if you look here on the Metametrix website, on the right hand side you can download an audio podcast which explains what "taxonomy unavailable" means: - http://www.metametrix.com/content/Learning...Interpretations


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## Lookin'foraLife (Jan 2, 2009)

Idkwia is absolutely correct (besides the fact I'm a "she"). IBS has been presented to be as a doomsday diagnosis which is very difficult to treat, and impossible to cure. That's why I keep hoping perhaps somethng more easily treatable is causing the symptoms.UPDATE: My nutrtionist said (just as Kathleen wrote above!) that I had dysbiosis, presenting unbalanced predominant gut bacteria (everything is either on the high or low end, no balance). She says this is a common picture presented for those with IBS symptoms. She also thinks I should get treatment for the parasite as it may very well be responsible for my symptoms. My very low fecal sigA points to my system being under much stress. She subscribed various supplements: Sacro B (to correct the floral imbalance), FOS, Probiotics, grafefruit seed extract and Rhodiola. I'll have to get a prescription from a doctor for something for the parasite.


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

I think the "it's doomsday" is a very bad way to present IBS to people. I'm sorry that is the only option that people seem to be giving you.While it is not curable (in the you take something for two weeks and it is gone forever), it does often go away by itself over the first 5 years people have it, and the vast majority of people who have it find management techniques that make it a nuisance rather than a life ending diagnosis.Chronic means long lasting, not permanent. Yep, some IBSers have it for decades, but I don't think you can say that is true for most IBSers much less every last one of us.There are a few people with very severe IBS who have a lot of trouble finding anything that works, but this is *not* the norm. Actually the norm is being a little bit annoyed with the symptoms, but not quite annoyed enough to tell the doctor about. If your doctor says there are absolutely no treatments for IBS at all, find another doctor (or if they say the only treatment is fiber). This shows your doctor hasn't read anything about IBS from the last couple of decades.


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## karoe (Sep 22, 1999)

Oh, dear, I don't want to get involved in the debate of "what is IBS" or whether you can cure it or not. If I had listened to my doctors ten years ago, I would be either dead or on social security disability, unable to work. I am actually slowly getting better, because I have gone out and informed myself and tried lots of things. When one thing doesn't work, you just go on to the next. Each thing you try (ie. drinking filtered water, getting certain foods out of your diet) takes a stressor off the system. This is my impression based on everything I have read and experienced, and I have been at this for TEN YEARS. You can give up, or you can try to help yourself. Your nutritionist does not see the entire picture. The test results are valuable in the hands of a practitioner who has experience. Go to Leo Galland's site and read through his slide sets etc., spend about 4 hours with it. You will see that this man has learned plenty about treating patients with gut problems. He may not have the answers for everyone. But he has a good track record. My doc says about the metametrix tests "when I treat my patients according to what comes up in these tests, they get better" She is a young woman, about 35 who left the traditional medical environment to start her own practice. It is important to remember that no one is going to hand you a cure, you have to research and experiment. It is work. For instance, I spend a great deal of time shopping for good food and preparing it. I feel that I have no choice in the matter-- eat well, feel good. Eat ####, feel bad. Please understand I am just giving you the benefit of my experience, not criticizing anyone's viewpoint.


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## Lookin'foraLife (Jan 2, 2009)

Karoe and idkwia- thanks for the info! I'm currently checking it out.Kathleen- The only treatment my GP would consider is antidepressants, and I'm very sensitive to their side effects.


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

They do seem to be an effective treatment for a lot (and the doses are low).If that is unacceptable you could try the hypnosis CD's (Mikes) from the CBT and hypnotherapy forum as that mind body stuff often accomplishes the same goal (and when it works is closer to a cure in that the effects often last and may continue to improve after the treatment ends but it still works on the nervous system and I'm not really sure you are on board with that). Check the CBT and hypnotherapy for some info and stories. I did CBT for my IBS as part of a clinical trial and my pain dropped significantly during the three months and continued to go away over the next couple of years.There are some in person hypnotherapists, but I'm not sure how widespread they are (they are usually in the USA) that have been trained in protocol that has been proven to work.However the other symptoms you have need to be evaluated for ME. It may be as you get that under control the IBS will calm down. The physical stress of additional illnesses always makes the IBS worse.


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## IanRamsay (Nov 23, 2008)

I Guess teh short and curlies of it all are this.you need to find out which parasite is present and which bacteria are in abundance or in numbers lower than that wich they should be. only at that point can you target a solution that MAY work.cheersIan


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## Lookin'foraLife (Jan 2, 2009)

Well, the beneficial bacteria that are low (out of the brackets) are the ones I mentioned in the test results, all the other beneficia bacteria are at the high end of the spectrum but not out of the brackets. There are none that are balanced. From what I was told tere isn't much that can alter specific bacteria, just the Sacro B supplment (that I can't find anywhere) is supposed to lower one od them.As for the protozoan, it seems impossible to find out which one it is. Even the lab test at metametrix couldnt figure it out and claim it may be a rare one. Only option I guess is to have a doctor prescribe different meds and see which works but I'm afraid that in my state the meds might kill me off before they affect the parasite!


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## IanRamsay (Nov 23, 2008)

HIits always a rare one................a dose of metro will knock off most parasites within 24 hours. it can be brought over the counter at most pharmacies, and it dosent cost that much.ALL Bacterial balances can be altered by simply putting bacteria in. ANY pro biotic will add bacteria in the system, but most gram positive bacteria simply "Passes through" the system, sticking around briefly to do the job and then being eliminated when they are no longer needed or in too grater numbers for the specific organism. it is quite possible to put the exact bacteria in that is lacking, but you may need to culture it your self which depending on the strain may be a little difficult but is still perfectly possible from home with some basic lab equipment that can be brought in most science supply shops. to get a starter culture speak to your local health food store. infact they may be able to source a powdered bacteria for you.Taking a standard probiotic even in a cocktail in large numbers but WITHOUT FOS, INULIN or other pre biotic will address (in time) the negative bacteria situation. target specific probiotic therapy is still in its infancy but there are some of us that have seen the ability of this type of therapy to work miricles. you will get there in the end, i have total faith in you, and we are all here to support you and help in any way that we can.cheersIan


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## Lookin'foraLife (Jan 2, 2009)

Thanks for the words of encouragement Ian, you have more faith in me than I do! I've already tried sooo many different treatments and angles and things seems to get worse.What exactly is "Metro"? Is it sold overseas as well?I've tried about 10 different probiotics and none of them help any. I'm low on two bacterias but on the high end of nearly all the rest! What could do the balancing act?Why without FOS? My dietician actually said I should buy FOS separately but definitely take it.


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## IanRamsay (Nov 23, 2008)

Hi Metronidazol and mebendazole are two potent antibiotics that are used to clear up bacterial and parasitic infectins. for parasite specific infection you could try piperazine phosphate, but to be extra sure i would take both! speak to your GP about it before you take either of them though. they are generally available in most modern countries on earth although the name may be differenrt. take probiotics through out the course as well though.FOS and INULIN are pre biotics that feed the pro biotic bacteria. they also feed the bad guys too and usually cause gas, cramps and a myriad of other symptoms that you dont need, and to be honest, completely unnessesary, usually added to pro biotic cocktails to make them more consumer friendly so you think WOW, theres another "special" ingredient in ther to help out, im getting value for money!. trust me, very few people actually benefit from it. Taking FOS on its own WITHOUT probiotics can be a good thing aslong as you are eating a "Probiotic diet" and not taking suppliments. just NEVER mix the two. is your dietician qualified? the only reason i ask is because advising someone to take probiotics with FOS who has any form of gut bacterial imbalance is like a red rag to a bull. you just need to keep on trying probiotics untill you hit on teh ones that you are low on. to be honest, good old metametrix should have told you their names or at least their culture numbers.cheersIan


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## Lookin'foraLife (Jan 2, 2009)

Well, I was already put on anti-parasite antibiotics when all this began about a year ago and the doctors thought it was parasites and not IBS. 2 rounds of Protocide, 1 round of Flagyl and THEY DIDN'T DO A DARN THING! That's why I'm afraid I may really have some really rare parasite and wanted to know EXACTLY what. The problem with these antibiotic trials are that they ruin the bacterial balance in your body EVEN MORE and I've read some people blame IBS on them. So what am I left with?The only imbalance I have is with the beneficial gut bacteria. They gave me the names of the bacteria but no Probiotic seems to have the ones I'm low on.


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Most of the drugs work for a range of things.If something is so rare no one can detect it, they probably haven't made a specific drug just to treat it.


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## IanRamsay (Nov 23, 2008)

hiFlagyl will knock off most parasites. i would get a second oppinion from a different lab and see if the results match up. as you have taken 3 types of drug for the parasites and there has been no improvement, i would say you dont have a parasite!what are the names of the bacteria that you need?cheersIan


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## M&M (Jan 20, 2002)

Agreed. The anti-parasite drugs you've taken knock out parasites in general - whether they be local parasites or exotic ones. And they knock them out whether they're parasites living in your GI tract, or in any other organ or body system.I was on them as well after I spent an extended period of time in South America many, many years ago. (I even had a pet who was on flagyl for a bit for a giardia infection.) Bottom line, if the anti-parasite drugs didn't help, then the logical conclusion would be you don't have a parasite - not that you have some weird parasite that no one can identify.


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## Lookin'foraLife (Jan 2, 2009)

I took those meds about 10 months ago with breaks between the different types. I actually felt somewhat better after the first round of Protocide but things came raging back after about 2 weeks after I drank 1/3 cup of beer even worse than before. The lab said they detected the DNA of an unknown protozoan so there MUST be something there. Also, if this is true they could explain all of my symptoms, including the neurological ones. I definitely did have parasites 5 years ago, way before all this began, and Protocide did the job immediately back then. To get it rechecked I'd have to again send off to a faraway lab, overseas for me, and go though the expenses and waiting once again. I no longer have strength for all this.Ian- the beneficial bacteria I'm low on are: prevotella, strptomyces, mycoplasma. High on clostridia. Any ideas other than setting up my own lab?


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## M&M (Jan 20, 2002)

Unknown doesn't mean rare. And even the rarest, most exotic parasite infestations still get treated with the anti-parasite meds that are currently available today.


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## IanRamsay (Nov 23, 2008)

Im going out on a limb here, but it would appear that you need to dismiss metametrix full stop. i am a bacterial specialist, i do it for a living. i can tell you for a fact that i am also low on those bacteria that you stated, as are everybody else on teh planet as they are non-perpetuating. in other words, their levels go up and down naturally through the course of life, and they cannot be easily affected by food, drink, exercise or drugs. the strptomyces and mycoplasma have very complex secondary metabolisms and are present in alot of perscription antibiotics. they are also extremely volatile. culturing them is extremely difficult, i have been doing this for more than 12 years and i would struggle without an ENTIRE lab of state of the art kit and small army of specialists. they arnt available in their natural form ANYWHERE on earth in over the counter preperations, largely because taking too many of them can make you extremely unwell, and they are one of teh few Positive bacteria that can kill you in overdose levels. although they can be found in bog standard earth and rotting vegetables, if your feeling peckish..............i honestly dont think that you should not read too much in to teh results from metametrix.What i am about to say is a touchy subject on these boards, but have you looked in to CANDIDA? if you where suffering from it i would say that it was systemic. that is the only thing i can think of that would explain all of your symptoms, including the nurological ones, especially teh drinking beer bit that is a great big sign for candida. look it up on google and check the symptoms off against a list. the good news is that if it is candida, it can be treated with natural substances easily available and a diet, the bad news is that it takes 3 - 6 months to get it under controll at least, and testing for it is quite difficult in terms of definate systemic diagnosis. teh spit test is reliable and can be done at home, but it dosent give you a idea of teh level of infection.i hoipe this helps.cheersIan


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## Lookin'foraLife (Jan 2, 2009)

Hi all, so I went to a private doctor today who's supposed to be excellent, showed him the Metametrix findings and here's his definite opinion:1) The results show intestinal fungus/yeast +1 which is low, but I shouldn't be having ANY FUNGUS OVERGROWTH WHATSOEVER in my digestive system, so definitely treat that. Perhaps the bacteria will repopulate after that is gone.2) Treat the parasite, which could have made me susceptible to the fungus to begin with and could be causing my symptoms. Sometimes people need up to 3 rounds till they're cured!Unfortunately there are only 2 types of antiparasite medication here in Israel, and I've already tried them both, so I'm going to have to order from abroad the specific type he prescribed me along with the antifungus meds that they don't have here either. (Someone remind me why I live here?) 3) My low fecal sigA shows I'm severely malnourished, however I can't eat more or differently than I do now because my digestive system is shot from the abovementioned. After the yeast and parasite are treated and I begin to recuperate I'll have to see a nutritionist that specilizes in digestive rehabilitation (where do I find this person...?) to get my eating habits back on track, since I could easily harm myself trying to add back foods I'm not yet capable of handling.I'm going to give this a try. Nothing to lose, right?Oh, and Ian you're not gonna like this, no offesnse man, but he claims probiotics can never even reach their designation in the digestive system since stomach acid kills them all off before they get the chance, so I don't need to bother with them. Now I know this is your profession and I know you're a dedicated researcher who's cured himself through probiotics, so I'm interested in understanding how you explain the stomach acid theory?


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## IanRamsay (Nov 23, 2008)

Hii am more than a reasercher, i am a bacterial specialist, more specifically, a Gastrointestinal bacterial specialist. you said this guy was good? ok, stomach acid works in several ways, one way that it works is it is there to kill pathogenic bacteria before it gets in to teh small and large intestines. as there are more than 10,000,000,000 bacteria in teh large intestines at any given time, they must have got there somehow! how they got there was passage through the stomach. they diddnt just majically appear there. the acid will kill off a certain number of all bacteria that enters the stomach, but a lot of it will carry on through in to teh intestines. and if the probiotic is taken on an empty stomach first thing in teh morning with water 30 minutes before food, 94% of the probiotic will reach the small intestine and around 86% will reach the colon. this has been proven in numerous research papers and i have seen this evidence in real human studies with my own eyes. I have also seen stool tests that where done to prove the presence of transit of a probiotic bacteria through the digestive system. of course that is based on teh assumption that you have a normal amount of stomach acid produced at teh right times and not under production or over production of acid. under and over production of acid alters teh amount of bacteria that reach teh intestines dramatically, as does delayed stomach emptying and teh presence of certain drugs like sucralfate and bismuth within teh stomach.how your doctor can say dont bother with probiotics because they dont get out of the stomach is almost neglegent, bordering on uneducated, then again he may have been living in a bubble for the last 10 years.as i have already said, it sounds like a fungus, candida is a fungus. if you follow an anti fungus diet, take a natural anti fungal suppliment, and drink clean fresh water, after about 6 months you should start to feel alot better.Once you get your next lot of anti biotics for what ever parasite you may or maynot have, be sure to take a strong probiotic with them, about 3 hours after each dose to keep teh balance of flora in your favour. or if you want to test your doctors theory, dont take any probiotics with teh antibiotics and see what happens in teh weeks after you finish your course. despite my training, qualifications, and experiance i may be wrong.sometimes the best thing to do is take all teh advice you have been given and pick the the bits that you feel is right for you and see what happens. cheersIan


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## Lookin'foraLife (Jan 2, 2009)

Hi Ian, thanks alot for the advice and for clearing up the probiotic bit. I guess you can't expect a doctor to specialize in all things. What you say does make sense and you have the research to back it up. Now if I could only find the right one for me! (Have tried 10 already).I've been on an anti-candida diet for a long time and have recently added grafruit seed extract. I only drink filtered water. Hard to imagine the fungus alone (and at such low percentages) could explain all the suffering I've been going through, but it's worth a try. I'm trying it all.


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## IanRamsay (Nov 23, 2008)

HiThe grape fruit seed extract should do a very very good job of attacking all manner of things that are fungal and bacterial whilst leaving teh god bacteria alone (i have no idea why this is, i have been trying to find out exactly why for almost a year and a half.) im a VERY big fan of grape fruit seed extract. in the lab i have seen it do some totally unbelevable things to negative bacteria. is it teh liquid extract you take or the capsual form? how long have you been taking it? also, PLEASE DONT ORDER THE ANTIBIOTICS OFF THE INTERNET, you never know what you are going to get and it may be very dangerous. instead, order teh antibiotics that you need from a pharmacy reccomended by your doctor. it may take some time to get there though. this is a bit of a silly question, but is there any damp or mould in teh place that you live?cheersIan


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## Lookin'foraLife (Jan 2, 2009)

Hi Ian, I take the liquid form of grapefruit extract, 15 drops in a cup of water 3 times a day. I just began last Tuesday. How long till there is an improvement?My doctor already warned me about ordering over the net. Point taken.I couldn't really detect any mold where I live or work.


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## IanRamsay (Nov 23, 2008)

hithe GSE is an incredibly potent anti bacterial, anti fungal, anti everything! but it can take weeks to start to see an improvement though.tell your doctor that you are taking it if you are prescribed any other medication, as it can react with it, quite badly in some instances.good thing about the mould. we can rule that out then!cheersian


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## idkwia (Feb 26, 2009)

Lookin'foralife: - firstly sorry to call you a "he" earlier in this thread! Anyway you might be interested in the following link to another thread because Dr Stephen Wangen sends his stool tests to Metametrix and someone has just added a post to the thread saying that he has been to see Dr Wangen. He has got to wait until the test comes back but he said he will let us know when it does.The link is http://www.ibsgroup.org/forums/index.php?s...mp;#entry740689Good luck..............and keep us informed.


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## Lookin'foraLife (Jan 2, 2009)

Whenever I see a regular doctor I'm taking suppliments, no matter which ones I mention, they all seem to just shrug.I do hope the grafruit seed extract goes okay with the antifungal and antiparasite meds I'll be taking.Idkwia- no problem, being female is sometimes such a bother and curse, I wouldn't mind actually being a "he".







It surely will be interesting to hear the results of this guy's tests from that other thread and hear what treatment Dr Wangen suggests. Like my latest doctor said: "What do mean IBS? What does that even mean? There has to be something CAUSING all of this and we have to find out WHAT to actually treat the problem." So much better than my first doctor's response: "It's IBS. Learn to live with it."


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

A lot of the drug interaction sites will also check for grapefruit interactions.The usual problem is the grapefruit changes your blood level of the other drugs so you might get an overdose of something.


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## karoe (Sep 22, 1999)

If your doc says probiotics don't work, you need a new doctor. Please read all my posts on the 4 R's program...I copied out the whole strategy for improving the intestinal environment with resistant starches so that the probiotics are provided with a growth medium. If your short chain fatty acids are low (butyrates) you need to be looking into this angle. It could be as simple as adding an apple a day to the diet. And waiting of course, maybe weeks for the results.http://www.ibsgroup.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=95178I hope you are able to access this post via this link. If not, seach forums under Leo Galland and you will find my post on his four R's strategy.


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## Lookin'foraLife (Jan 2, 2009)

Thanks Kathleen, I check it out.Karoe- My doctor was more concerned about the very low fecal sigA (OMG-compared my nutritional status to that of a holocaust survivor!) and bacterial dysbiosis than the butyrates, but then again regular docs don't seem to know much about this stuff. Thanks, I'll give it a read!


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## Lookin'foraLife (Jan 2, 2009)

Thanks Kathleen, I'll check it out.Karoe- My doctor was more concerned about the very low fecal sigA (OMG-compared my nutritional status to that of a holocaust survivor!) and bacterial dysbiosis than the butyrates, but then again regular docs don't seem to know much about this stuff. Thanks, I'll give it a read!


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## karoe (Sep 22, 1999)

Do you have the guide to interpreting the stool profile? If not, it's on the Metametrix site. On page 9 their are suggestions for Depressed fecal Sig A. If you have D, for instance, L. Glutamine is very helpful.


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## idkwia (Feb 26, 2009)

I have just made a similar post on my thread regarding Dr Wangen but I thought I should also write here as I was involved here as well earlier.I have now had back my GI Effects Stool Profile report from Metametrix which says that I do not have any opportunistic or pathogenic bacteria, parasites or yeast. It does say that I have borderline low levels of certain beneficial bacteria. Although perhaps it is hard to believe that my symptoms could be so bad with just this level of beneficial bacteria. I sent the stool to Metametrix 4 weeks ago and in the meantime I have been taking VSL3 for the past 4 weeks which is the strongest (450 billion per capsule) probiotic on the market plus Natren's Healthy Trinity probiotic with 60 billion per capsule. I had previously taken Digestive Advantage for 4 weeks which is also a probiotic. Alas, this has not made any difference to my symptoms.The Metametrix test shows that my Short Chain Fatty Acids are low and this should be treated by probiotics which of course I have been taking. As stated my symptoms remain as before.Today I have been doing some research on the web including this site. What is so frustrating is there is so much conflicting information out there it is so difficult to decide what to do. I only wish I could find someone in the UK who could help me with the Metametrix test or similar or at least guide me down a better route than traditional GI docs who as one doctor from a different speciality described as "plumbers". So if anyone here knows of someone good in the UK I would be grateful.In the meantime, under Predominant Bacteria, apart from low Bifidobacteria, the Metametrix report says I have low Clostridia sp., Fusobacteria sp., Bacteroides sp. which are all Obligate Anaerobes apparently. Does *Ian Ramsay* or anyone else know how I can supplement these and build them up? I think I know what I need to do to build up the Bifidobacteria as they seem simple to buy but as for the others mentioned I haven't got a clue.


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## Lookin'foraLife (Jan 2, 2009)

Congrats on getting the results back. It seems you have been systematically trying just about every method out there like I've been trying to do for the past year. Something's gotta work, right? Concerning the predominant bacteria you're low on, other than bifidobacteria, there seems to be no probiotics that target those specific ones. I'm also low on some of those (high on others) and my nutritionist who used to work at Metametrix and consulted with them on my case said there is no way to target them. As I remember Ian said the same.If you happen to find out otherwise, post!


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## IanRamsay (Nov 23, 2008)

HiThese are difficult ones mate. (Clostridia sp., Fusobacteria sp., Bacteroides sp). Bacteroides sp has alot to do with cholesterol and rearanging its seating is nothing short of a nightmare, infact all three are near on impossible to manipulate with any ease, and over teh counter suppliments wont even touch the surface. they ARE bacteria in one way or another, but not directly probiotic in alot of ways.for instance, Bacteroides sp. Strain D8 is actually a cholestorol reducing bacteria, but it is usually harvested from human feces. so as im sure you can imagine it isnt something that you can buy in a pot at teh chemist! clostridium sp is a nasty bastard in its own right. here is a bit of text from a paper on human pathology to explain it a bit better for you.Severe soft tissue infections are caused by either single or multiple microorganisms. We performed a retrospective immunohistochemical (IHC) study on formalin-fixed, paraffin-embedded soft tissue samples from 20 injection drug users who were part of a cluster of severe illness and death after skin and soft tissue infections in Scotland and Ireland in 2000. The IHC assays used antibodies against Clostridium sp, Staphylococcus aureus, group A streptococci, and Bacillus anthracis. Intact bacilli and granular Clostridium antigen staining in areas with necrosis, edema, and inflammation were observed in skin, fascia, or muscle samples of 12 (60%) patients. A variety of clostridia were isolated from affected soft tissues in 10 IHC-positive cases. Staphylococcus aureus antigens were observed in 3 cases including 1 where S aureus was isolated, 1 with negative cultures, and 1 where mixed cultures were obtained. Group A streptococcal antigens were observed in 1 case in which Streptococcus pyogenes and S aureus were isolated. By using IHC, we detected different bacteria in archival soft tissue samples from patients with severe skin and soft tissue infections. Immunohistochemical assays can be of great diagnostic value, particularly for bacteria such as Clostridium sp, which are difficult to isolate because of their anaerobic fastidious growth requirements. im not entirely sure how you can safely suppliment any of these 3 beasties without risking serious personal harm. as you are taking almost half a trillion bacteria a day at the moment, (which i must say is A HELL OF A LOT OF PROBIOTICS) if it isnt helping you, im at a bit of a loss. it is possible that the bacteria isnt out of balance, and the root of the IBS is another illness?cheersIan


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## Raffi (Jun 8, 2009)

I have tried advices from healthybowels.host-ed.net, I am not fully cured but at least I got rid of many symptoms.


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## idkwia (Feb 26, 2009)

*Lookin'foralife* - yes, like you I am going to try everything I can. I don't feel like doing anything else as I feel so bad so I just have to try and get better. You say that you have now got a nutritionist who used to work for Metametrix so how are things going, any improvement yet? By the way, I have found an interpretation sheet for the GI Effects Stool Profile on their website which is pretty good. Let me know if you can't find it.*Ian Ramsay* - thanks for the info. Seems I can't do a lot about these things. Have to admit that it was only Clostrisdia sp. which they said was actaully outside normal range, the others were low but still within normal range. So I guess that whilst they are low they are at least in balance, I just have to hope that is ok. The only one that was higher was Prevotella sp which was in the normal range but quite a bit higher than the others. Have to say that I can't see the point of Metametrix reporting on these things if there is nothing you can do about them.Anyway, my total short chain fatty acids were low and I would like to do something about them. I have read that these are needed to build good bacteria or is it the other way round?*Raffi* - Pleased to hear that you have had some results. I had a look at healthybowels.host-ed.net, how long do you have to do Step 3 for?I have now finished the VSL#3 so I am now going to try Align (which arrived today) along with Natren's Healthy Trinity probiotics. I am also going to start an exclusion diet from tomorrow for 2 weeks to see if I am intolerant to any foods..............I had a food intolerance test using IgE and IgG, but cutting out the few foods they reported on have not made any difference so the only way to get real accuracy with food intolerance is to do a food exclusion diet. I am also currently on Miralax, turmeric, artichoke leaf, ginger and Men's Life Force Vitamins.Thanks to you all.


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## IanRamsay (Nov 23, 2008)

My thoughts are with you brother. let me know how you get on, and if i can help in any way.cheersIan


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## idkwia (Feb 26, 2009)

Thanks Ian - do you know if probiotics help build short chain fatty acids as the report says I am short of them? I have read on another thread that probiotics need a substrate (a base I assume) to take hold; is this prebiotics? I know that you are not keen on prebiotic supplements but considering I don't suffer from gas or bloating would they be worth a try do you think? And then of course, which ones? Or is it better to provide a base with food and if so which foods. Hope this isn't too many questions...........if it isn't can you please be specific because I am very much a layman in this regard.Thanks a lot.


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## IanRamsay (Nov 23, 2008)

Hi MateProbiotics in general do provide nutrients for intestinal cells by producing short chain fatty acids, so taking teh amount of probiotics that you are taking should be doing the trick, but it may take some time. (short chain fatty acids are not my strong point!)A good base for probiotics can be either insoluable fiber (and to a certain extent soluable fiber) from real food, or FOS or INULIN. if you are going for FOS or INULIN, just see how you go, you may be absolutely fine. some people are, and can take pre biotics with wanton abandon!cheersIan


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## Lookin'foraLife (Jan 2, 2009)

Interesting, I have the opposite situation with the bacteria:Clostridia is too high and Prevotella too low.I have ordered Sacro B which is supposed to lower the Clostridia.So far I have treated the intestinal yeast overgrowth reported on the test and it has resulted in a marked improvement in my neurological symptoms such as fatigue, weakness and vertigo, which has been a blessing. This week I hope to begin the treatment for the protozoan they reported.I read the interpretation sheet and it says pretty much what my nutritionist already explained, thanks.Believe me, in my quest for health I have gone to some extremes. In my desperation I even went to "healers", mystics and card readers. Strangely and frustratingly enough they all said the same thing: "It's psychosomatic".


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## idkwia (Feb 26, 2009)

Lookin said:


> Interesting, I have the opposite situation with the bacteria:Clostridia is too high and Prevotella too low.I have ordered Sacro B which is supposed to lower the Clostridia.So far I have treated the intestinal yeast overgrowth reported on the test and it has resulted in a marked improvement in my neurological symptoms such as fatigue, weakness and vertigo, which has been a blessing. This week I hope to begin the treatment for the protozoan they reported.I read the interpretation sheet and it says pretty much what my nutritionist already explained, thanks.Believe me, in my quest for health I have gone to some extremes. In my desperation I even went to "healers", mystics and card readers. Strangely and frustratingly enough they all said the same thing: "It's psychosomatic".


Well I suppose people such as "healers, mystics and card readers" would say that it was phsychosomatic! I am currently also trying hypnotherapy, have you tried that yet. I have met Michael Mahoney who released the IBS Audio 100 Program. I am on day 30 of the programme but no change yet so I am considering having one-to-on sessions with him.Anyway, I hope you are watching my thread on "anyone seen Dr Stephen Wangen" as there are some interesting cases there. Of coure Dr Wangen uses the same Metametix test that we had.By the way, pleased to hear that you are making good progress. It seems that your nutritionist is good, is that the case? Has he/she made any suggestions for dealing with things like Clostridia and Prevotella? You are using Sacro B, do you know how I can lower Prevotella?What pert of the world are you in please?


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## Lookin'foraLife (Jan 2, 2009)

Hi Idkwia, I live in Israel.And also the ear-nose-throat specialist I went to for my stuffed nose and itchy red eyes told me: "It's stress"! Go figure....I had success treating the strange neurological aspects attributed to candidiasis but not the classic IBS-C symptoms. Currently trying to treat the protozoans the test claims I have.As fas as the Pevotella and other bacteria, my nutritionist says they cannot be manipulated with supplements and the such unfortunately.I haven't tried hypnotherapy for this yet.Have you tried a minimal dose of Xanax XR? I've only tried it twice since it's not something you want to get addicted to and I don't suffer from anxiety, but I must say it was the first time in a long time my abdomen felt completely at ease and I forgot I actually had a digestive system!


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## idkwia (Feb 26, 2009)

Lookin'foraLife - no I haven't tried XanaxZR. If it was that good for you why don't you take it all the time? After all you are only having a minimal dose.Also, if you don't suffer from anxiety what made you decide to try it, had you heard that it was good for IBS? I am very interested in this.


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## Lookin'foraLife (Jan 2, 2009)

Even the 0.5 dose makes me loopy and I must be alert for my work. It's also highly addictive, so I'm scared of overdoing it and developing dependency. I'm already dependent on sleeping pills. I tried it because my neighbor who also has IBS told me she takes it and it helps her, I read cases of others who found relief with it, and some doctors I went to mentioned it and I heard it helps with pain and nothing I tried helped even the slightest with my IBS pain until this.Good luck and let me know if you try it.


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## Lookin'foraLife (Jan 2, 2009)

Just to be clear, it does not treat the IBS itself, just helps with the pain aspect of it all. I can still be bloated and have C with it but I don't feel it as much.


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