# SIBO antibiotics



## Evan79

Hello,I am wondering if Neomycin, Levofloxacin, Metronidazole and Levofloxacin all do the same thing as Rifaximin for SIBO? My interpretation is that these drugs all eradicate bacteria, except Rifaximin does not get absorbed into the bloodstream and is more expensive. I think I would like to go another round of drugs to nuke the bacteria, and am wondering if I should use Rifaximin again or try something else? Thanks!Evan


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## Kathleen M.

Neomycin is also poorly absorbed into the body.Basically they all kill bacteria. They probably kill off different subsets as no antibiotic kills everything, but I think the ones used for SIBO tend to be "broad spectrum" so they kill off a wider range of bacteria than some other antibiotics.I don't know that they have a good handle on how many times one should use the same antibiotic but some people do seem to get resistant bacteria over time so rotating them may not be a bad plan if you have to take them repeatedly.


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## Moises

Evan,Did Rifaximin work for you? It didn't work for me. Nor did Vivonex Plus. I am seriously considering trying Flagyl and Cipro together, 500 mg twice daily for seven days. From my understanding, Cipro kills many aerobic species and Flagyl kills many anaerobes. If you take Cipro alone, you run the risk of a population explosion of c. difficile. The Flagyl keeps the c. difficile in check.I believe that Levofloxacin and Ciprofloxacin are in the same family of antibiotics.


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## Evan79

Moises,I'm not sure yet how well the Rifaximin has worked. I have seen improvements, but do still have symptoms. I took a 1200 m/g dose for ten days about two months ago, followed with health food store probiotics (Jarrow-EPS, Primal defense). Because I have good medical coverage, I would consider buying more antibiotics. I believe that from my breath test results for SIBO that I do have a somewhat severe case. I found the quote below from an article while researching, that gives me thought to how long the treatment process could take..."If disturbances in the intestinal flora are moderate to severe, up to 3–6 months may be needed to see significant changes in bacterial counts and/or clinical symptoms. "


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## faze action

Evan79 said:


> Moises,I'm not sure yet how well the Rifaximin has worked. I have seen improvements, but do still have symptoms. I took a 1200 m/g dose for ten days about two months ago, followed with health food store probiotics (Jarrow-EPS, Primal defense). Because I have good medical coverage, I would consider buying more antibiotics. I believe that from my breath test results for SIBO that I do have a somewhat severe case. I found the quote below from an article while researching, that gives me thought to how long the treatment process could take..."If disturbances in the intestinal flora are moderate to severe, up to *3-6 months *may be needed to see significant changes in bacterial counts and/or clinical symptoms. "


That's interesting... does that means 3-6 months of continuous treatment? If so, then that may explain why people tend to get a recurrence of SIBO. Mine's alreday returned once, although the rifaximin did work for me. It completely elimintated my symptoms the first time I took it, but only for about 6 weeks, and then they slowly returned.So far I am okay, except that last night I bloated after eating dinner. First time that's happened since the 2nd round of ABs. I had the same course you did (1200mg/day x 10). Am also now on Align proB...


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## Evan79

That is a good question, I'm not sure either. Below is the link to the article...http://icimmedics.com/articles/gastrointes...inal-dysbiosis/Do you know or have an idea of what the underlying cause of your SIBO is?


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## faze action

Evan79 said:


> That is a good question, I'm not sure either. Below is the link to the article...http://icimmedics.com/articles/gastrointes...inal-dysbiosis/Do you know or have an idea of what the underlying cause of your SIBO is?


Thanks for the link. I have no idea what caused (or is causing) my SIBO. I have never (to my knowledge) had food poisoning, at least not in the past few years. I've had a CT scan and no physical abnormality was detected through that (e.g. no obstruction, etc). In fact the only diagnostic procedure that I haven't had done yet is a motility test, but from what I've heard that one is somewhat time consuming and invasive.I do also have an iron deficiency (low serum ferritin) and I'm on supplements for that... I recently read that the duodenum is responsible for the majority of iron/mineral absorption, and in the past few weeks I've noticed a mild, recurring pain over where I think the duodenum is.. maybe a connection, maybe not. It's a pretty vague symptom actually.None of that other stuff in the article (poor diet, antibiotic/other drug use, GI disease or past surgery, etc.) applies to me.If I (or my doctor) knew what the underlying cause was, and it was something treatable, then I'd be home free because the SIBO causes virtually all of my IBS symptoms.


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## Flowby Jonas

Hey Evan,I hear ya on the anti-biotics. I went through 3 treatments one right after the other and I would be ok for a few weeks or so and then I got nailed again by the SIBO. I took these Chinese herbs that act like anti-boitics and it took like a little over 2.5 weeks of that herb straight to really knock them out. My acupuncturist said that I could take that herb for as long as I wanted with no side effects! I think that using the probiotics right away is not a good idea. Even though we need the bacteria to help digest food I think waiting about a month or 2 is wise. I just had my 3 yr colonoscopy last week and we had major improvement. I think it take several times with any antibiotic to get the results we need. This is what I have experienced so far. Who knows it may come back but so far so good!As for how SIBO happens I think its anyones guess at this point. I have theories on how but I am no doctor so its just speculation. Like eating too late, going to sleep on a full stomach, and the connection with IBS. My G/I doc a good one and very sympathetic says that no one knows and there is no said cure. At least he seems honest and besides he has IBS as well so of course he wants to know as well. He has approved me to try out the acupuncturist stuff and he is amazed by the results as well. I am not saying its the begin and end all, but with the doctors so confused and the medical community up in commotion about IBS and SIBO's I thought it was the way to go. Reading as many posts as I have here, sure make one wonder if this is to make the medical community rich or what. It seems that everyone here almost has tried all these different approaches with western medicine and no results. Its got to make you think.


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## faze action

Flowby Jonas said:


> Hey Evan,I hear ya on the anti-biotics. I went through 3 treatments one right after the other and I would be ok for a few weeks or so and then I got nailed again by the SIBO. I took these Chinese herbs that act like anti-boitics and it took like a little over 2.5 weeks of that herb straight to really knock them out. My acupuncturist said that I could take that herb for as long as I wanted with no side effects! *I think that using the probiotics right away is not a good idea.* Even though we need the bacteria to help digest food I think waiting about a month or 2 is wise. I just had my 3 yr colonoscopy last week and we had major improvement. I think it take several times with any antibiotic to get the results we need. This is what I have experienced so far. Who knows it may come back but so far so good!As for how SIBO happens I think its anyones guess at this point. I have theories on how but I am no doctor so its just speculation. *Like eating too late, going to sleep on a full stomach, and the connection with IBS.* My G/I doc a good one and very sympathetic says that no one knows and there is no said cure. At least he seems honest and besides he has IBS as well so of course he wants to know as well. He has approved me to try out the acupuncturist stuff and he is amazed by the results as well. I am not saying its the begin and end all, but with the doctors so confused and the medical community up in commotion about IBS and SIBO's I thought it was the way to go. Reading as many posts as I have here, sure make one wonder if this is to make the medical community rich or what. It seems that everyone here almost has tried all these different approaches with western medicine and no results. Its got to make you think.


Re: the first bolded type: what makes you say that? I started Align 2 days after finishing rifaximin...Re: 2nd bolded type: what is the connection between eating too late and IBS? Because of my work schedule, I typically eat only about and hour or so before going to bed. I do notice that, when I bloat, it tends to be later at night. I had never heard this before... interesting.


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## AllisonS

Flowby Jonas- Can you please post the Chinese Herb name specifics (one herb or a formula). I am in Portland too- who is your Acupuncturist- I would love to connect with them. Thank you, AllisonS


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## Common Response

The herb is Rhizoma Coptidis.


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## Flowby Jonas

faze action said:


> Re: the first bolded type: what makes you say that? I started Align 2 days after finishing rifaximin...Re: 2nd bolded type: what is the connection between eating too late and IBS? Because of my work schedule, I typically eat only about and hour or so before going to bed. I do notice that, when I bloat, it tends to be later at night. I had never heard this before... interesting.


Easy, why would you want to increase the bacteria you are trying to eliminate?The late night thing is cause when I eat lots late at night I wake up with either a stone in my gut, or pain, or other related issues with urgency or wanting to vomit.


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## searching4answers

I've been on flagyl twice for SIBO. First time worked for an amazing 10 days i was symptom free but then it all came back. 2nd round did nothing for me. So metronidazole (Flagyl) is one of the strongest antibiotics they have for this so idk what else to suggest. But definately ask about Flagyl. Those 10 days were the best 10 days of my life i've had in a long time.


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## faze action

Flowby Jonas said:


> Easy, why would you want to increase the bacteria you are trying to eliminate?


Because the bacteria you are trying to eliminate are not the same as the bacteria contained in the Align/protbiotic...Anyway, this was last year and I've taken Align twice and neither time did it work for me (or make this worse, for that matter).


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## Flowby Jonas

faze action said:


> Because the bacteria you are trying to eliminate are not the same as the bacteria contained in the Align/protbiotic...Anyway, this was last year and I've taken Align twice and neither time did it work for me (or make this worse, for that matter).


 Sure they may be but I think that since its bacteria that causes the issue and the bacteria that is in the colon colonizes the small intestines. Why add to the problem? its my theory any way. I am using an herb from my acupuncturist that works really well. I get it from my A/C that way I know its mixed right. The member Common Response found out the Chinese name for it but its also mixed with a few other herbs, its so bitter its unreal. I capsule it up from the big capsules you can buy at a good pharmacy. I take them as maintenance when I feel the need. Sometimes depending on what I eat I can goe a month or more no probs. I think what I will do next is take it for as long as I can, then I will stop for about a week and then while I take it on a maintenance dose every day for about 3 more weeks and then just 1 cap a day when I think the time is right. Look any good G/I doc that tells you the truth will tell you there is NO CURE! So I figure I will have to have a program to stay well. I own a small business and it used wreak havoc with me all the time. I stopped altoghther taking the herb fro about 4 months and had 1 or 2 episodes. So I know that I will have to develop a system that works for me.


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## FONDUE

[quote name='Common Response' timestamp='1262231966' post='776166']The herb is Rhizoma Coptidis.Thank you, coincidentally I'm located in the same city that you are, small world. Anyhow, I called a Chinese medicine ND to buy some Rhizoma Coptidis.The ND mentioned that the herb is sort of like golden seal but the one used in Chinese medicine that is from China is is way more potent. Apparently Rhizoma Coptidis is also it is known as, Golden thread or Huang Lian; "_Known as a broad spectrum of antibiotic effects against Bacillus dysenteriae, Mycobacterium tuberculosis, Salmonella typhi, E. coli, Virbrio cholerae, BAcillus proteus, Pseudomonas aeruginosa, Diplococcus meningitidis, Staphylococcus aureus, beta-hemolytic streptococcus, Diplococcus pneumoniae, Corynebacterium diphtheriae, Bordetella pertussis, Bacillus anthracis, and leptospira. The inhibitory effect is strongest against E. coli, Mycobacterium tuberculosis, and Staphylococcus aureus. Use of Huang Lian or its components individually is commonly associated with resistance. On the other hand, the use of Huang Lian within an herbal formula reportedly enhances its antibiotic effectives over tenfold with little incidence of resistance. Berberine, one of the components of Huang Lian, is most effective for gastrointestinal infection, but not for systemic infection, since it has poor absorption by the intestines and a short half-life. In addition to is antibacterial effect, Huang Lian also has antifungal and antiviral activities. According to one report, a 15% decoction of Huang Lian is effective against numerous pathogenic fungi and dermatophytes. Lastly, Huang Lian has an inhibitory effect against influenza and hepatitis viruses." Anti-inflammatory: Oral administration of berberine has demonstrated a marked anti-inflammatory effect. Cardiovascular: Intravenous injection of berberine lowered blood pressure. The mechanism of blood pressure reduction is dilation of hte blood vessels and inhibition of secretion of the adrenal glands. Berberine also has antiarrhythmic actions. Cholagogic: Huang Lian and berberine act to increase production and decrease density of bile acid. Addicionally, they reduce the plasma level of cholesterols. Antiulcer: Huang Lian inhibits the secretion of gastric acid and is commonly used in conjunction with other herbs to treat peptic ulcers_'.


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## jmc09

Do the Chinese have many problems with ibs?I only ask as there seems to be a chinese remedy for everything so im interested in how successful their treatments are.


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## FONDUE

I'm finally on a chinese formula , The ND diagnosed with me with SIBO and then later I was diagnosed with H Pylori and put on the a strongest antibiotic I have ever been taken it is called Helidac I could hardly, walk, talk, or even move let alone think! I lasted four days on that, I think being a sitting vombie is not going to work in my world







Second dr wanted to verify H pylori I was tested twice for H Pylori by the infectious Disease dr ( I was so sick that I was referred to them) He said both test were negative for H Pylori! So I had a formula made by the chinese medicine ND to address the SIBO and I already had a bottle of Rhizoma Coptis (Huang Lian) which was basically mixed into a formula with other herbs so the formula was custom tailored for me. Which makes total sense since we are not all the same in body type, propensities , blood type, ancestral orgin etc. The herb Rhizoma Coptidis, is the chinese antibiotics it was mixed up with some other herbs and I started to take a 1/2 sccop every two hours until I reach the 6 scoop maximun which is the stopping point until the next day .The formula is bombarding the bacteria to kill it that is why it works I just programed my cell phone to beep every two hours when it is time to take it again . ThE formula has NO side effects. Tolerable to drink. I'm actually feeling better.


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