# Question: Should the CBT and Hypnotherapy forum be split?



## Jeffrey Roberts (Apr 15, 1987)

I'm sorry I missed a recent posting about the merits (or not) of Hypnotherapy. It inadvertently raised a good question.Given the amount of information that is separately generated about CBT and Hypnotherapy do you think we should split the discussion up into separate bulletin board forums?Thanks for your (constructive) input,Jeff


----------



## JeanG (Oct 20, 1999)

Hi Jeffersonally, I like hearing about CBT, and would miss it a great deal if there were a separate forum. This is not a highly active area, with 50 or more posts a day, so there really isn't such a pressure to create a different forum.My opinion is, keep us all together.







JeanG


----------



## Guest (Jun 23, 2002)

A separate forum might not be needed, as long as VARIOUS types of alternative therapy are offered.When I first came to this board and checked out this forum, I thought maybe because the board was in a growing process that not all alternative treaments were being addressed. I returned to the board again and again, looking for support in areas other than hypnotherapy, but there was rarely anything posted here except information on hypnotherapy. I found that to be very frustrating so I didn't come to this forum very often.Hypnotherapy has its place. Some of us, however, would like to see other therapies offered. It's possible to conduct biofeedback with tapes as well. I personally know a few people who are terrified of hypnotherapy.It's possible that if there were additional forms of therapy offfered here, there might be more traffic here ????? We're all different.... we all have different needs. And there are so many viable therapy options that I think we can offer enough to make more people happy.


----------



## Feisty (Aug 14, 2000)

I totally agree with ArtSpirit. Hynotherapy is not for everyone and it cannot possibly help everything. So let's get some options out here for everyone to choose from and stop concentrating on just one way only. THERE ARE OTHER OPTIONS. Hynosis isn't for everyone. And this particular board tends to lean only in that direction. It's not right. This is suppose to be a place for anyone to come to for info and not find bias.I am another person who rarely came to this place because it rarely discussed anything besides hypnosis and Mike's tapes.Karen


----------



## JeanG (Oct 20, 1999)

As several of us mentioned when this topic came up the other day, no one has ever been prevented from discussing other therapies other than hypno. What in the world do you think Dr. Bolen is doing here? When people post questions to her about CBT she answers.It is up to the people who want to discuss it to respond to each other. If people interested in it enough to respond they just will; if they're not, they won't. There is no sense complaining that other things aren't wanted, because that is a bald-faced lie. If you aren't getting the replies you want, Artspirit, don't whine about it. Your hysterical ranting only alienates people.JeanG


----------



## RitaLucy (May 3, 2000)

I am very troubled by the way in which things are handled at times by members. I say this because I was not involved in any posts where there were disagreements of sorts with different types of therapies but I was contacted by members trying to get me involved in a debate of which I was not familiar or involved in.I recently CHOSE to do hypnotherapy and I CHOSE it not blindly but after much research and talking with people I know both on this BB and off whom I have come to respect.I really take resentment in negative propaganda.I think we are all educated and mature people here and to assume that someone is going to be swayed into something unwillingly and unknowinly is really troublesome to me .... and insinuations that the BB is profiting by doing such just really blows me away!Before you start Mike's tapes I think he must say at least 10 times to check with your Dr. etc. or if you have any hesitations at all not to start them. I myself before I decided to go with the hypotherapy posted right here on this BB to find more information about what the difference between CBT and hypotherapy were and then I decided what was best for me.THERE IS NO RIGHT OR WRONG way -- but there is a right way for you personally... again I do have a problem with knocking one way to promote yet another.Having said what I just said...I believe this is and should remain a place where different ideas and knowledge can be shared in a positive fashion.If you want a forum created to discuss a therapy ---- then talk to the moderators of the BB. I don't agree in trying to rally members either for or against other members....


----------



## nmwinter (May 31, 2001)

I vote for keeping them together. While I am doing the hypno tapes, I am interested in hearing about toher like therapies. I realize that we don't get as many posts and it would be great to see more, I also realize that this board is all volunteers so getting that kind of dialog depends on who is here. I already check out several different forums for alternative therapies and really don't want to have to click around more.ThanksNancy


----------



## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Feisty, you don't visit here because of HT. Why does the discussion of hypnotherapy keep you from participating and posting information? I am sorry to hear that really.My vote is for keeping this all together personally. A lot of times they use combinations of these treatments together also and they are all helpful.


----------



## Guest (Jun 24, 2002)

Hi JeanG... just one comment on your post:You wrote:"no one has ever been prevented from discussing other therapies other than hypno"And you are correct. And that's the whole point....it isn't that we can't talk about it... it's that the board needs to OFFER (as in help and suppport) other forms of therapy when the people are asking for it just as they offer help and support for hypnotherapy. And if you feel the hypno tapes are helping you, then by all means, continue with them. Is there anything in the hypnotherapy tapes that help us to learn how to manage our anger? Regarding Dr. Bolen.... Ritalucy.... as I posted on another thread, I wish you the best with your choice.Thank you Feisty, NMWinter and everyone who is supportive of expanding our horizons here.Jeff... can we look into getting someone affiliated with this board who has some experience in treating patients with biofeedback?If it weren't for biofeedback in conjunction with cognitive therapy, I would never have achieved a comfortable level of self-respect, self-esteem or confidence. These two therapies literally saved my life.Something that was a real perk for me today was a 6-hour traveling gospel choir church tour. That along with dance also helps to relax me and help me to feel some serenity..... and that is something more of us here would like to achieve.(yes... I stopped in every available bathroom on the route....







)


----------



## Guest (Jun 24, 2002)

ooops... the mouse got wild on me there and truncated my comment with regard to Dr. Bolen. To answer your question as to why they are here? If the board is OFFERING support and help for a specified therapy, a credentialed healthcare professional is needed.I seriously doubt that any qualified healthcare professional would object to the multidisciplinary approach to healing.


----------



## irisheyeosully (May 21, 2002)

Hi Jeff! I think it should stay as it is.I think it is a very helpful and infomative bb.I wish to say thanks to all who have taken the time to respond to me and all of my questions here.I also hope Eric stays with this bb. Irish


----------



## Jeffrey Roberts (Apr 15, 1987)

Seems like there is support to keep the two therapies in the same forum.Glad I asked.


----------



## Susan Purry (Nov 6, 2001)

I think keeping the various mind-body modalities together in one forum would be desirable and helpful, and calling the forum a more general term such as 'mind-body modalities' rather than mentioning the specific ones. To my mind a forum renamed that could include biofeedback, Cognitive Behavioural Therapy, Hypnotherapy and possible other approaches concerned with using the power of the mind (whether that is the conscious or the subconscious) to bring about health improvements in the physical sense such as meditation etc. I don't think 'mind-body modalities' is the correct term, I'm sure Mike Mahoney or someone has the correct term. So I vote for keeping them together but renaming the forum to be more inclusive of all approaches to the mind-body connection.


----------



## norbert46 (Feb 20, 2001)

J*, I agree with keeping everything together here. As many know Mike's tapes have relieved my IBS/D and over the years of IBS(35yrs) I have tried everything. I tried Biofeedback when it first arrived and could slow the beeps and light blinking but the Psychologist was not able to help me relate that to reducing any anxiety. I think Dr.Bolen and CBT has much to offer and I have also recommended another CBT type book by Dr.Burns-" The Feeling Good Handbook". CBT works on the "concious mind" and Mike's hypnotapes works on the "subconcious mind" and I don't see a conflict. I feel they can/do work very well together at the same time. To any people that have some kinda preconcieved notion about Mike's hypnotapes being something to fear??? etc. let me tell you that all you are doing is listening to a soothing voice and music talk to you with a comforting message. You would never think it is "hypnosis" and there is NO unusual or negative response to the tapes. The most that you will feel is falling asleep and not conciously hearing the end of the tape, you will subtly notice over time that you are getting relief and any anxiety,insomnia,panic and IBS symptoms are disappearing with no apparent reason. I believe all these methods can help and can even be used together without conflict. IMHO NorbPS: After reading a few more threads here I see there is another "party crasher" who wants to re-educate the helpless. Mike, Eric, and Marilyn have helped many dozens of us recieve relief from the symptoms of IBS. As stated I've also taken all the therapies and Mike's tapes are the least expensive,least invasive(time consuming or schedule interrupting)and easiest way to achieve relief. I once visited a BB where the moderator wouldn't let anyone espouse a method other than calcium??? Don't be bashing Eric, he is the most caring,giving, and tireless crusader on this entire BB and if that is all you have to do then do everyone a favor(especially any future members who would miss the restoration of a normal life if not for Eric's work here) and go somewhere else! If you come here and say that Mike's tapes haven't given you the relief that you need and with all the assistance that Eric,Mike and Marilyn can give you does not help then I will agree that the hypnotapes were not for you. I think the folks that find that experience will be very low and NOTHING works 100% for everyone! J*, in light of my discovering that someone here is forcing an issue of splitting BB's or starting an arguement that will run Eric and others off my advice is to either caution that person that these therapies do work(not mask over symptoms but retrain the mind to behave correctly)and not be driving away your esteemed helpers by using the positive words on this BB to start a dispute or go ahead and split the BB to get them away from stopping folks who can get a new life thru the hypnotapes! I have "witnessed" many times for Mike's program but not with the educated fervor that Eric and Marilyn possess, I will NOT sit by without a fight and see this therapy and them in particular be attacked. I have very thick skin, just feel free to pile on and get ready. I can get nasty too when someone who doesn't know what is really going on attacks and drives away hurting, needy folks. That being said, Eric and Marilyn I sure hope you don't let someone push you away, there are too many still suffering folks who need Mike's program and I'm preparing right now to respond to one on the MP BB. If necessary I will "troll" more here and return fire, I just got tired of the fighting on the IBS forum and the MP forum is just fun as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## LTL (Dec 18, 2001)

I think they should be kept together ... and by coincidence (I've been gone a while - don't quite know what everyone is referring to), I'm going to start a new topic on biofeedback.LTL


----------



## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Norbert, thanks for the comments and your support. I am glad your still doing well and still around I of course wonder where people go, but understand your reasonns and want to thank you as your a very caring humorous and caring individual.Susan, for the most part the title of the forum implies posting any mind body article and way to deal with IBS and anxiety, but perhpas jeff could put more in the title. The fact is however CBT and HT are the two top most mentioned forms for IBS. Some incorporate say biofeedback with cbt or ht sometimes. These are the two most researcher, HYpno being the most research for IBS over the last twenty years.


----------



## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

for the record, I believe in natural ways to treat IBS as a first line approach and am not against any method such as cbt, biofeedback, meditation, ht or such that delivery the desired reesults, however they are different reasons for each and what they can accomplish.


----------



## trbell (Nov 1, 2000)

jeff, I think perhaps the problems and confusions may come from mixing apples and oranges in a different way. it's very easy to confuse the goals of help and self-help with arguments over the merits of the different psychological treatments. I know I've been guilty of this myself. You might want to consider a way of distinguishing between a forum for hypnotherapy and other psychological treatments and moving the forum for Mike's tapes into the products forum somehow and doing the same for the LEAP program. tom


----------



## zayaka26 (Jul 5, 2001)

I say keep them together.


----------



## Guest (Jun 25, 2002)

You bring up a good point, Tom... and it has caused me to re-think a bit about whether or not the board should still be kept together as one. (I may have originally been agreeable to separating them because I didn't want any further negativism)People need to be able to get support in the areas that meet their individual needs. Individualizing separate forums for each area might not be a bad idea. Sometimes people (especially new people) might see all of this and get totally overwhelmed. If they can approach one potential treatment option at a time, it might create a more comfortable atmosphere in which they can relate.The multi-disciplinary approach is the ticket. A person's whole health needs to be addressed. And you, of all people, know that better than anyone.I've re-thought things through and I am with you on this, Tom. Jeff....Eric.... is it possible for us to have separate forums?


----------



## Guest (Jun 25, 2002)

Typo in first post: I meant to sayI may have originally been agreeable to NOT separating them because I didn't want any further negativism)


----------



## nmwinter (May 31, 2001)

the problem I see with so many separate forums is _that_ can be overwhelming for people, especially new people. There are already so many forums as it is, I know I for one do not look through them all. Even the main board - I look at that and then occasionnally the D one and the C one - since I'm IBS C/D they both kind of apply. So splitting this up, could make it worse for people looking for non-medication/non-dietary treatments. maybe renaming it as Susan suggested would be a good idea.and yes, I would like to see the scope to include more than hypno and CBT. On the other hand, it will only include what people post about. We happen to have some active people in the hypno area and to a lesser extent in CBT. But asking Jeff to find these experts doesn't sound like his job necessarily - this is a self help group. I think if you want that expertise, you will need to find it or even gain it yourself (as eric did - he's a layperson).and no, I'm not volunteering







But I do appreciate those who do liek eric, trbell, kmottus, etc. and I know I don't say thank you near enough.nancy


----------



## trbell (Nov 1, 2000)

it's an apples and oranges kind of thing, I would think, self-help groups usually don't have experts although they might have facilitators (people with expertise on promoting good feelings and harmony in a group to help people. When discussions degerate into 'experts' debating over who is right or wrong there are bound to be hard feelings and it seems to me that perhaps these debates belong in their own forum or in the general ibs forum.tom


----------



## BQ (May 22, 2000)

I think there are plenty of forums already.BQ


----------



## Guest (Jun 25, 2002)

Good thoughts, NM.... I guess the main thing is that different kinds of therapy support be provided and promoted. I think one of the good points of having multiple forums is that the people interested in only that specific therapy are more likely to visit. I remember when I first came to this board, and just as you said... I felt totally overwhelmed with all of the information. So I started looking for forums and threads that related to my specific needs. Had a found a separate board for biofeedback, I would have spent more time there than I've spent on the single forum. The important thing is that people are given choices... and then, even more importantly... that they are given support for those choices. If we have that.... we are in good shape.Maybe what we need to think about doing is holding off on a decision until we see how much interest is generated now that people know that more support is going to be offered in multiple areas?Tom... I do still very much agree with you that the debates between the professionals can be an issue... and you are correct that if we separate the therapies into different forums, there is less chance of that.Could we simply create a separate forum for the professionals to meet and discuss clinical issues?


----------



## JeanG (Oct 20, 1999)

The forum should definitely be kept as one, in my opinion. So far the majority of the people who have answered Jeff's question want it to stay that way, and Jeff himself has said it seems that most people want it to remain as is.JeanG


----------



## RitaLucy (May 3, 2000)

I vote for keeping them together also. I also want to suggest that maybe Artspirit and Tom can be the ones who find experts to help the members who want to find more information on CBT or other methods to alleviate anxiety etc.


----------



## KariMar (Jun 15, 2002)

I would like to agree with RitaLucy about keeping them together and having Artspirit and Tom find the experts.I have found this bb to be a wonderful and informative site for those who suffer w/IBS.I am very greatful that I found this site and the great support of everyone here. Thank you KariMar


----------



## Guest (Jun 25, 2002)

Well.. the last time I went against the majority.... something good came of it.This time, however, I will go with whatever is decided.By the way... I am not an expert.... just a "super user". I've had excellent results with a variety of therapies.Tom is the expert. As is Mike Nolotomil. And of course, Dr. Bolen.


----------



## AZMom (Oct 13, 1999)

Jeff, Keep them together, they are closely related and can work together.Norb,Well said. I also did CBT and biofeedback as well as psychotherapy. I did hypnotherapy twice. The first time was ineffective for IBS because the therapist did not understand IBS. Once I found Mike's tapes I began to educate myself on hypnotherapy, and the more I learn, the more I understand how it works on IBS.Eric, I should have been here more for you. Sorry. I'm off living my life without symptoms, and you've been taking heat about advocating hypnotherapy. I'll visit more often to support you here. Artspirit,Biofeedback, meditation, tai chi, yoga, relaxation...all can help you feel better. Maybe even help you with your anger...and other emotional issues. But they are not as effective on IBS as hypnotherapy. I can show you dozens of studies that show significant improvement (80+ percent) in IBS patients with hypnotherapy. Show me some that show improvement with biofeedback.This board is created by the members. If people are not interested in CBT or biofeedback, you won't find posts about it. If a treatment has not helped anyone, there won't be posts about it. You find a lot about hypnotherapy because it has helped many, many members. Perhaps you don't understand the desperate situation people like Eric, myself, Jean, Marilyn, BQ, Norb, Stef...and dozens of others were in. We'd tried it all. We'd suffered for years. This is the only thing that has brought about significant improvement. We are trying to share. We get passionate because we've been there, and now we're better. It is a miracle to us. You are being frivolous in what you say and your point of view, and downplaying a significant therapy. Learn and read about hypnotherapy before you knock it.AZ


----------



## trbell (Nov 1, 2000)

I think there is a misconception here. There is an experts forum for hypnosis and CBT. I know that eric has done the tapes, read a lot about a certain kind of hypnosis, and helped a lot of people. However knowledgeable he is, he's not licensed as a psychologist or hypnotherapist. If people here see him as an expert rather than a knowlegeable layperson I think this could be potentially problematic as it could be seen as practicizing medicine without a license. I've hesitated to bring this up but it seems to have become an issue. JeanG,you're up on how the FDA views internet advertising and such things. Do you think the problem might be solved by giving eric an honorary title that people wouldn't misunderstand, like 'eric, internet hypnosis information specialist" - eric, please don't take this as personally against you, I just have concerns if people see you as a doctor.tomtom


----------



## trbell (Nov 1, 2000)

If I've misunderstood and this is a popularity contest then I vote for eric, too, by the way, even if he did ban me from the forum for desent awhile back.tom


----------



## JeanG (Oct 20, 1999)

Tom:Eric has never claimed to be a therapist. Indeed, most of what he does is post studies and research that is done by other medical professionals; i.e. UNC, studies found on Medscape and other medical forums. Both Eric and Marilyn continually refer people to Mike Mahoney if there are questions about hypnotherapy, and to their own doctors for pertinent questions.This is no way implies he is practicing medicine. If you are so concerned, get a legal expert to take a look at the site. I'm sure they'll set you straight in no time.How much of Mike Mahoney's work have you listened to, Tom? I have done every single one of his programs (except for the prenatal one, which I am too old for, lol). On each and every one he stresses over and over and over that if there are any concerns or questions to consult your own physician. He stresses over and over and over that his cds are not a substitute for medical care.You are barking up the wrong tree here, Tom. If you can get a legal expert to come on here and agree with you, and I can duplicate it with another legal expert, then I will concede your point. But I don't think that is going to happen.JeanG


----------



## Guest (Jun 25, 2002)

Eric, I had faith in you, that is, until you crossed the line (but we're not going there again).... as I said before, I originally had no quarrel with you and felt that you were a real asset to this board..... but while you may have helped a few people, some of us can't help but wonder how many others have been put off because of the narrowness of the therapies supported here. I have no doubt that hypno is valuable as an IBS coping mechanism.... my gripe is with the uncertainty that exists when a person needing a whole health assessment performed by a realtime physician, but instead being "diagnosed" by uncredentialed persons over the Internet. This is potentially risky.Let the people with the professional initials behind their names participate on a level consistent with their education and experience in treating patients who do not just have IBS, but have a whole spectrum of autoimmune dysfunctions going on. We can't treat just the one symptom of IBS because there is so much more to the story... that you, yourself, understand.... which is why I've been so confused and frustrated with your hesitancy to allow other therapies the spotlight.All of the therapy tools are valuable. Studies vary from country to country and even state to state.... so just because biofeedback has not been touted here as a valuable relaxation tool... doesn't mean that if and when it IS studied that it won't come out on top. To be honest, there isn't that much difference between hypno and biofeedback.... hypno addresses the subconscious... while biofeedback addresses the conscious. And some of us like know that we have control in the here and now.I hope that no hasty decisions will be made here and that we will evaluation every option, alternative and enhancement.Just want to add that the posting of contraindications about ANY therapy is not a negative thing. Constraints are mean't to be helpful guidelines for people who are contemplating self-care. That's a positive thing. Evie


----------



## Guest (Jun 25, 2002)

JeanG.... I don't think the point that Tom is trying to make has to do with the legalities... it has to do with new people having misconceptions about who is offering them therapy. When people are very ill, they are not always rational.... they are often times even desperate for help and will do most anything. This can be an issue when a person's whole health profile is not addressed by a credentialed professional in a realtime situation. Tom has a very valid point. "Dueling" over the task at hand as to what is right, wrong, effective or not effective is not the issue here. The issue is in addressing the needs of the people who come here for help and have no idea what they are getting into.


----------



## JeanG (Oct 20, 1999)

Artspirit:You continue to spout your ignorance in spite of the fact you have been proven wrong.(1) We have proven in this forum that other therapies are and have been readily available since it began. I find it very amusing that you have not acknowledged the two threads I posted with links to Dr. Bolen's threads and other threads regarding therapies for IBS. Why is that?(2) This is a SUPPORT GROUP. We support each other. None of us need initials after our names to support each other. If you are not capable of existing in that type of arena without someone to lead you by hand, by all means go somewhere else.(3) We have a CBT professional here, on this forum, and you continue to not acknowledge her presence - Dr. Bolen. If you choose not to post any of your questions to her, that is your problem, not ours.(4) Do not accuse all ill people of not being "rational". That is an insult to everyone here on the board. Again, this is a SUPPORT group and that is what people come here for. It is up to each person to read and evaluate for themselves what they find useful to their condition.(5) The only person "dueling" here is you. The rest of us are capable of accepting the discussion of other therapies.JeanGJeanG


----------



## RitaLucy (May 3, 2000)

I don't believe that Eric has ever tried to lead anyone to believe that he is quote an expert in anything. I do believe that he has been a very caring and compassionate member of this BB and has been involved with professionals on this BB to help other's get informed and perhaps find something that will work for them.I was on this board for two years and no one ever tried to "force" a treatment of any sort down my throat. I asked a lot of questions -- got a lot of answers... gathered the data and decided for myself what would work best for me.You know, I can't help feel that there is yet a hidden agenda here! In fact it is quite obvious.And.. I would like to add that just because one is a so called "licensed professional" doesn't necessarily mean that are capable in the field to which they are licensed. People like this are a dime a dozen. And it doesn't always necessarily mean that they are professional or conduct themselves in a professional manner.We have all run into them.I have learned more from members and their experiences than I ever did from any Dr. who I consulted with. So to have initials after your name is not what makes one automatically knowledgeable or compassionate.


----------



## trbell (Nov 1, 2000)

as I've said before I have no problems with eric and i think he's done a lot of good. I'm not sure why people are trying to turn this into an argument?my concern was that there are posts on this thread where people talk about experts which leads me to think they feel eric is an 'expert'JeanG - I think if you read the stories and the materials put out by the FDA you will see that one of the concerns about internet medical postings is that people attribute authority to people that they may not have. I've said over and over again that I agree with 90% of what eric has saidbut have some problems with the other 10% It's basically a concern with the way things are worded and eric doesn't seem to understand or acknowledge that it's irresponsible to state things as fact (which implies medical certainty to quote popular TV courtroom programs)when it would be more responsible to say 'probably'. He also has a tendency at times to hound dissenters off this forum and the bb. As i said before I think the problem would be solved if he inserted an appropriate disclaimer in his posts and didn't claim expertise he doesn't have.tom


----------



## ohnometo (Sep 20, 2001)

TomYou are you getting in trouble again







I went and took a look at your home page and enjoyed it ...


----------



## trbell (Nov 1, 2000)

i'm trying to avoid a personality contest here. all these battles are not really very helpful for people and I think maydrive people away from the bb.tom


----------



## ohnometo (Sep 20, 2001)

I know you mean will Tom...I was just kiddingThis world is made up of all different kinds of people..and thank God for that..


----------



## Jeffrey Roberts (Apr 15, 1987)

Just wanted to let you know that I have heard from a few of you today with regard to this posting and just wanted to say that I'm not planning on closing, moving or doing anything with this thread. It seems like a reasonable civil argument, albeit it has drifted from my original question.Please just think about what you are writing before you hit the "Add Reply" button. Always best to keep personalities out of it.Jeff


----------



## JackieGian (Mar 23, 2002)

O.K. I was really going to stay out of this, because I don't visit this BB for debate, but there some real inaccuracies I can't let go here. I've been visiting this BB since about March and this is what I've observed


> quote: some of us can't help but wonder how many others have been put off because of the narrowness of the therapies supported here.


If ANYONE wants to discuss other therapies, instead of complaining about the lack of discussion -- OPEN A THREAD!!!









> quote: my gripe is with the uncertainty that exists when a person needing a whole health assessment performed by a realtime physician, but instead being "diagnosed" by uncredentialed persons over the Internet


I've NEVER seen anyone "diagnosed" on this board. If anything, the first question I've seen asked by anyone new (especially by Eric) is "have you been diagnosed" by a physician


> quote: Let the people with the professional initials behind their names participate on a level consistent with their education and experience in treating patients who do not just have IBS, but have a whole spectrum of autoimmune dysfunctions going on


No "professional" in their right mind is going to treat people over a bulletin board.









> quote: so just because biofeedback has not been touted here as a valuable relaxation tool... doesn't mean that if and when it IS studied that it won't come out on top


So "tout" away and DO the research and post here. As I've said before, I would love to see other things discussed. AND by the way when I mentioned that, less than 24 hours later ERIC posted several sites on biofeedback. You now what, it's not up to Eric to do your research for you. He is a person who is extremely knowledgeable about a therapy that worked for him. If something works for anyone else, become knowledgeable and post away!!!!


----------



## JackieGian (Mar 23, 2002)

Oh, and by the way Jeff, keep the forum "as is". I think the people who visit the forum would be interested in all of the information currently shared here. And it would make sense that if one didn't work, another might.


----------



## Feisty (Aug 14, 2000)

I admit, I had Eric confused with a Doctor (sorry Eric), and the Mike everyone talked about and his tapes---now don't laugh----I thought was Mike NoLomotil














Yeah, I know, I know. Mike NoLomotil is going to love me for that one!!I didn't post appropriately and I'm sorry for that---I didn't try to do more searching or ask more questions and instead "rushed in".All the answers and comments I've received over the last 2 days from my post has been greatly appreciated. I think I have spent more hours at this *** computer than ever before; although I'm payng for it with the muscle stiffness and pain from the Fibro. (And I thought I could possibly look for a part-time job in an office or something---with hubbie not working---still looking), but I know now I don't think it will be good for the Fibro or the Migraines, let alone all those trips that I have to make when I HAVE to go, or else!!







Let's concentrate on keeping this all together. I agree that it would confuse me more if I had to go to all sorts of different places to find bits and pieces of info and besides, I've received so much support from so many over the last 3 years that I think it would only lead to more confusion.So, come on everyone, let's get back to helping one another and stop exhausting ourselves with the arguments. I don't know about the rest of you, but the controversies are wreaking havoc on my nerves. And again, I was "too quick and rash" with some of my comments and didn't give anyone ample time to give me some answers---especially when I didn't ask them first, but just thought the answers should be there!!!!


----------



## Guest (Jun 26, 2002)

Thanks for telling Jean this art spirit, but she asked me to remove the personal related information and deleting the earlier reference to it.You said it best here.Sorry for the intrusion. Please continue with the topic at hand.


----------



## norbert46 (Feb 20, 2001)

Practicing medicine without a license?? Now you really talk about apples and oranges! I don't know about every state but in Texas you have to be an MD to "practice medicine"! A Phd or Therapist here is NOT allowed to Rx or even discuss medicines and are NOT considered to be medically trained but are considered to be "counselers"! Anyone can use "hypnosis" with or without a license, just go see one of the fun shows. There are folks who travel the country supposedly offering hypnosis cures for smoking and overeating and a lot of them have NO license,Phd or certification whatsoever. That doesn't mean that it is ethical but my remarks about "experts" stand. As far as myself and Webster's Dictionary are concerned you have to have a skill of mastery of a problem to be considered an "expert" in that area. Mike Mahoney is a fully accreditted and recognized "Hypnotherapist" who works with MD's in Great Britain. There are some folks here who have "expert" knowledge about the benefits of "gut specific" hypnosis even though they may not be able to perform the actual "hypnosis induction". Just because a person has a Phd or Therapist certificate/sheepskin doesn't make them an "expert" on "curing" or alleviating symptoms of a syndrome when they have no "hands on experience" with that particular therapy and maybe even disbelieve the possibility that hypnosis is beneficial! I worked as a computer machine programmer/operator for a large chemical company and there were 50% college graduates in that shop with me because of the high pay and good benefits. Three of those men also had college degrees in Psychology and none of them knew anything about IBS or hypnosis/CBT/biofeedback etc. The only person here who has been making absolute medical/therapeutic statements is Mike Mahoney! Eric and Marilyn have quoted Mike, offered links to other medical sites and offered opinions based on life experiences with IBS and the symptom relief achieved by using Mike's Audioprogram 100. Many of the rest of us have also testified to the great benefits and you folks who think your are really an "expert" would probably be greatly surprised how much some of us common dummies are knowledgeable from using the internet and PDR to study all aspects of our IBS problems and possible therapies! Sorry for the ranting but I get so tired of hearing about so-called "experts" who can't even figure out how to fix their own problems, much less anyone elses!







Norb


----------



## Guest (Jun 26, 2002)

Getting back to the topic at hand..... Many of us have previously tried on more than one occasion to get threads going about other therapies. The problem, I think, is that the board leaders are not PROMOTING the other therapies. They are only promoting one therapy...which is a good therapy... but it isn't the ONLY therapy.What is the first thing that we see when we sign onto the IBS Board? BINGO.... it's the little advertisement about "Home of Mike's Tapes".... implying that hypnotherapy is the only way to obtain relief from IBS distress.... which simply is not true.I am very glad if sales of the tapes help to support the board. I would just like to see some real help offered in other arenas as well.Of course we can't conduct real cognitive therapy here on the board.... but concepts can be discussed..... tossed back and forth among the members. One of the hugest issues that is so painfully obvious on this forum is that anger runs rampant and almost appears to control virtually every move. When anger is in control.... it blinds us to everything else... nothing good can get through.Unfortunately, sometimes it takes some shaking up... in order for us to open our eyes.No one is saying that if you are using hypnotherapy and it is working for you that you have to stop. By all means... continue with it.... we need every available form of help that we can possibly find for this illness and its related components.What we're asking for is that the board leaders begin to offer the same kind of support for other therapies as they do for the hypno.Even though I have a 40-hour + per week job and I am involved in several other extracirricular activities..... I am willing to help get things rolling in every area that I can think of. I know a wonderful biofeedback therapist here in my home town who may be interested in following this forum to see if he wants to start contributing.Some of you may view the way that these discussions have come about as negative. I won't deny that it took something negative to get something positive moving... but the point it... something positive is now moving... and even if things are viewed as good now..... we can further improve on what is already here.I agree with you Jeff that this is a very good thread. I hope that we can work out some enhancements that will benefit as many people here as possible. And I thank you very much for what you've already done.So when the democratic way of going about enhancing this forum didn't work because, as Tom said, the board leaders tend to push people away who have ideas different from theirs.


----------



## Guest (Jun 26, 2002)

....







Just so you're not affiliated with the mafia or anything..... It's good to have friends in high places.... but........


----------



## JeanG (Oct 20, 1999)

Norb:How have you been? I haven't been over to the MP much these days, so don't get to see your posts. I sure miss your humor. I'll have to touch base with you and everyone else over there.







Feisty, Norb, Jackie and everyone else, I agree it's time to get back to normal. So, let's do it!!!














JeanG


----------



## Guest (Jun 26, 2002)

Thank you, Eric... or Jeff... or whomever managed that post deletion. I am feeling some positive things this evening. We're moving forward.... on a very positive note. I'm sorry if I hurt you in the process.... but we're getting there....you can see that now... right?


----------



## JeanG (Oct 20, 1999)

Hi Rita:I just saw your post from earlier today. It's amazing, isn't it, how much we can learn from each other?







One of the most important things, for myself, has been to learn how to research information and pull up questions and answers to take to my doctors. I have also presented them with what I have found. I mentioned Mike's hypno tapes to a therapist I had last year, my regular doctor and my gastroenterologist. They were very pleased to hear about them, and one was going to look into the tapes for patients of hers.Thanks to Eric, Mike001, Jeff, Marilyn and all the wonderful people here who have supported me (and all of us).







JeanG


----------



## trbell (Nov 1, 2000)

Norb, i can't really tell if you are accusing me of anything so will assume not. If I understand you right you are agreeing that eric is not an expert on hypnosis. He is an expert on information about hypnosis and seem good at helping and encouraging some people who are using Mike's tapes. I'm sorry to hear that Texas is so far behind the times not to license hypnothapists but most other states now do so because of the reasons you mention.tom


----------



## RitaLucy (May 3, 2000)

Artspirit,I have a couple of questions about what you are stating.


> quote:


The problem, I think, is that the board leaders are not PROMOTING the other therapies. They are only promoting one therapy...which is a good therapy... but it isn't the ONLY therapy.What is the first thing that we see when we sign onto the IBS Board? BINGO.... it's the little advertisement about "Home of Mike's Tapes".... implying that hypnotherapy is the only way to obtain relief from IBS distress.... which simply is not true.I am very glad if sales of the tapes help to support the board. I would just like to see some real help offered in other arenas as well.


> quote:


I logged off and came back on to the board to see if I saw BINGO right off the bat what you are talking about. Maybe I can't see that well today but I didn't see the advertisement. I saw others but I couldn't find the hypnotherapy ad. I am not saying that it is not there but it just didn't jump out at me the way that I thought it would when I saw your post.How are the board leaders promoting any therapy? I believe the members here are greater promoters of anything tried by them on this board because this board is a member's board. Members sharing their experiences both positive and negative. Nothing is dictated to the the members here by the leaders of the BB.I am very serious... I am not trying to challenge your statements but I am trying to truly understand what you mean because I have never picked up on any board leader promoting one therapy over another one here.I also don't think it is up to the board leader's to offer therapies here but I do think it is up to the member's here if they want to see topics or experts added to bring it to the attention of the board members.I don't think it would be the fault of the board leaders if there is a tendency for some of its members to choose hypnotherapy and maybe there are more members on this board who prefer hypnotherapy over other therapies but I don't see that as the fault of the board leaders. I don't even know if it is true statement to say that more BB members prefer hypnotherapy over any other therapy. I have not seen the data on that.I have never seen where the board leaders here deterred any member from talking about any therapy in which they have tried either. If you believe very strongly in a specific therapy then maybe you need to be the person to spearhead it. Eric is a respected member here by many because of all his experiences in dealing with IBS and the ability to gather data and information and he is so gracious to share that with everyone. Ultimately though any memeber who visits here makes their own decisions and conclusions.


----------



## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Thanks Rita and everyone else, I think we all have agree not to split the forum up and to get back to helping and supporting each other. The negativity that has arisen will only drain everyone and its already upset enough people and is counter productive to what we all trying to achieve in calming our brain gut axis regardless of how or what therapy we as indivduals achieve it by.If people have information on CBT, Biofeedback, massage, accupunture, accupressure points or mediatation or anything feel free as you have always been able to do, to post it and share your experiences with everyone on the bb here.







Art Spirit, has done both CBT and Biofeedback and can nicely tell us about here experience with it for all to share when ever she feels so inclined to do so, hopefully without stiring up people who are actively doing and posting about their hypnotherapy experiences on a hypnotherapy forum. These people have a right to share that as well and because of the way it works (which some don't understand) don't need the negativity when they are motivated to help themselves via HT and any other treatments they are combining with it for success.


----------



## JeanG (Oct 20, 1999)

Well spoken, Eric!







Our purpose on being here is to learn ways to control our IBS so that we can lead happy, healthy lives. We do not need to be lead away from that purpose.Thanks again!


----------



## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Thanks Jean, by the way if anyone really wants to see how I approach IBS its on my website. Via education. I do believe I have information on CBT and biofeedback and massage etc. and such there for people to learn and read about and ask questions about.www.ibshealth.com


----------



## LTL (Dec 18, 2001)

Since this thread seems to be no longer about splitting the board, I thought I'd add my own off topic comment.







Eric, a few months ago I wrote a number of posts about Paradoxical Intention as a way of managing IBS emergencies. No one had ever heard of using PI for IBS & I tried to encourage people to try it, because it had been quite successful for me.As far as I know, no one ever did try it, but Eric did take the time to look it up & read about it, & he said that what he had read looked pretty good (or something like that - I don't want to put words in your mouth







) - but he really didn't know enough about it to reccommend it (there are no references to PI for IBS on the internet).Anyway, it seems quite wrong for someone to say that he won't consider other ideas - my experience with him indicates that he will look at other things, but that hypno is where he has the most information.


----------



## trbell (Nov 1, 2000)

LTL, Paradoxical Intention sounds to me like a specific component of some kinds of hypnosisand as a technique might be part of psychological treatments. It also could be part of rational-emootive therapy which has some similarities to CBT. You might want to ask Dr. Bolen or Mike about this?tom


----------



## Nikki (Jul 11, 2000)

Gosh, i disappear for 2 days and this happens!







I think it would be a shame to separate the forums as i always like coming here and reading about CBT too.I think if anyone has a problem with not enough therapies being offered then they should post a thread on them!ANyway,SPliff


----------



## norbert46 (Feb 20, 2001)

Tom, no I was surely not attacking you in any way. My point was that I don't like people showing up on this forum with the intent of attacking or discrediting the therapies and helpers that are working very hard and freely giving of themselves to afford IBS relief for others who don't know about Mike's Hypnotapes. I didn't have any luck with meds,biofeedback, psychotherapy,herbs. Just Lotronex and now Mike's Audioprogram 100. There was no therapist around here to administer CBT? There is no "expert" in this area to administer "gut specific Biofeedback". Maybe all that stuff can help or even totally relieve IBS but what good will it do if it is not readily available for a price that most of us can afford? Can any of that be done with a set of inexpensive(under $100) tapes at home and at your convenience?? I do have a few books that use the CBT approach for anxiety/worry reduction and will agree that they help greatly. That being said, it will serve little purpose for person "X" to tell us that we can be helped if we go to Wisconsin to take TM from Mr. Chang or go to the deserts of Arizona to take curative Biofeedback from John Doe Phd. Unless of course you happen to live within about 50 miles of that person? Mike Mahoney answers questions in his e-mail and he comes on this board and answers any question you may ask if he has the answer. Maybe someone with another therapy to recommend can find one of these few therapists with curative abilities to do house calls all over the USA at the convenience of the members? Just a thought, Norb


----------



## trbell (Nov 1, 2000)

Thanks, NorbI have to admit I missed much here - when threads get to over one or two replies and people are arguing I have to admit I tend to just readthe first and last post and skip the stuff in between..But I do think I'm going to put up a message about what to expect from a referral to a psychologist - were not all mean nasty people.tom


----------



## Clair (Sep 16, 2000)

perhaps a rename of the title would be more fitting in this instance although I am at a loss to suggest something meaningful that all users will understand..... e.g therapeutic treatments (non-medicinal) perhaps we need a competition to think up a name....I personally like reading about all the topics discussed on this forum - and it does help give insight into things people might not otherwise try.oh ive probably opened up a whole new can of worms now


----------



## norbert46 (Feb 20, 2001)

Tom, I know you're not a mean, nasty guy! I do have some experience with a Psychologist for psychotherapy as well as general anxiety reducing hypnotherapy and deep relaxation. He is one of the nicest, most caring persons I have ever met and I have referred others with psychological problems to him. I really would prefer folks to approach disorders and coping problems to seek relief through a good Psychologist/Therapist than to use the Psychmedicines and the meds only as a last resort! I have been very fortunate to achieve total relief from my IBS/D by using Mike's Audioprogram100 and will not be looking for a MD to Rx the Lotronex medicine again when it is back in the Pharmacies. I just hope that the males who need Lotronex will be able to find MD's to RX Lotronex "off label"! Norb


----------



## LTL (Dec 18, 2001)

Tom,I couldn't tell from your post if you were familiar with Paradoxical Intention or not - so I'll explain as well as I can.







Even if you are familiar with it, maybe someone out there will be interested in trying it.Basically, you try - even if just for a moment - to do the opposite of what you really want to do. If you are a stutterer, you try to stutter as much as possible & (hopefully) that makes the stuttering stop. If you fear sweaty feet, and that makes your feet sweat, you try to make them sweat as much as possible, which can make them stop sweating.For me, I used to fear IBS accidents while driving. So I would take a huge garbage bag in the car with me & say to myself "I'm going to fill this entire garbage bag with D. I hope this bag is big enough to hold it all - if not, I'll find some other things to use here in the car." The difference in peace of mind when using PI is incredible. BTW, the mind games that you play in PI are supposed to be ridiculous - hence the huge garbage bag. (Um ... no, I never had to use the bag







)PI is great for emergencies because it works immediately, and for some people (not me) one or a few times fixes them permanently. I believe that PI is credited to Victor Frankl, and is part of Logotherapy.


----------



## norbert46 (Feb 20, 2001)

LTL, isn't it odd how our minds work that way? Let me tell you a (hopefully funny) story that happened to me. I went to a well respected Psychiatrist by referral of the MD at my job. He asked me my problems and I told him IBS/D and severe anxiety that seemed to go along with it. He says "How bad does it get?" I said "well I go to the toilet a dozen times a day and feel like I'm gonna go nuts sometimes!" He says "you've sure come to the right place, I'm fully qualified to treat and Rx medicines for that!" "Just get up outta your chair and stand on one leg and flap your wings and go completely nuts! Maybe even jump up here on my desk and bounce up and down or whatever and when you finally go nuts I can give you the proper medicine!" Naturally that all struck me as strange but I immediately saw his meaning, "you can't make yourself insane, it is a condition of the brain that is not accessable or controllable and we can control our wayward thinking that causes our anxiety/panic" After much laughing on my part I tried the psychmeds with this MD for a long time and did have some relief from anxiety but not for the IBS/D. Norb


----------



## trbell (Nov 1, 2000)

thanks, LTL. I knew it was an older technique but had forgotten the source. Victor Frankl is oneof the great from the past and I think this comes from his survival of the camps. sometimes I feel like I'm surviving the camps here myself with IBS?tom


----------



## Jeffrey Roberts (Apr 15, 1987)

This discussion might interest some people here: http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...ic;f=3;t=017585


----------



## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

I posted how I personally felt to that thread Jeff just fyi.


----------



## linda2001 (Apr 14, 2001)

I don't think their needs to be a spilt as it is helpful to read what other options are available. It is useful to have everything related to anxiety under the one forum. Maybe just a rename as others have suggested.


----------

