# How Much is Too Much and Too long?



## jv (Feb 1, 2002)

I have been under alot of stress with my job and home. With the stress comes increased D. Most of the time it is when my access to a bathroom is not good. I have also exprience slight tightness in chest most of the time. If the D gets bad the tighter my chest becomes. My panic attacks have decreased with Zoloft (100mg), Bentyl (20mg 3 times a day) and ativan when needed. My Problem now is that I feel as though I need the Ativan more and more to control all of my anxiety whether I am stressing from the D, work or Home or all three. I cannot go out to dinner or a party with out taking all three meds. Heck, for the last couple of weeks, I have a panic attack because I am not sure if I can make it to work before I go on myself? My commute is 30 min. from home. My main questions are, do any of you go through the same dependency on these types on meds? How long can someone stay on these meds without doing some harm to you mentally and physically? Does Hypnotherapy simply wipe these fears from your mind or teach you to rationalize your fears? My mother gets D so bad that sometimes she cannot make it to the bathroom in her own house. Will this be my destiny? Please help me.


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## LTL (Dec 18, 2001)

Hi JV,I can sympathize somewhat, but I've never taken any prescription meds for IBS ('cept an antispasmodic, which didn't work for more than a month).---------------------------------------------for the last couple of weeks, I have a panic attack because I am not sure if I can make it to work before I go on myself---------------------------------------------Some of what you're experiencing sounds like anticipatory anxiety. I found that Paradoxical Intention works great for that - it works the first time you try it in many cases. You might want to do a Google (www.google.com) search on Paradoxical Intention to see what it is & how it works. I don't know of anyone else who's used it for IBS, but it works for me, & does wonders for people with other conditions (e.g. stuttering, profuse sweating, etc.)People have also had success thwarting panic attacks with PI (might want to include panic as a google search word?).hope this helps.


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

LT, I need to look into what your talking about.JV, Its hard to answer some of your questions sort of.This" My Problem now is that I feel as though I need the Ativan more and more to control all of my anxiety" is one reasons doctors try to be careful with meds and try not to have people on them long term if they don't need to be.A lot of what your desrcibe in your post is pretty common in IBS.It may help to read the stress fight or flight post on the main dicussion forum and the HPA axis and how its involved in c and d and d IBS.Some of your questions need to be directed to your doctor about the meds. There is a lot involved in this as well both mentally and physically, side effects, long term use etc.. There are risks with almost all meds, however they can also be effective and pretty safe for some. Why its important to really go over all this with your doctor."My main questions are, do any of you go through the same dependency on these types on meds? How long can someone stay on these meds without doing some harm to you mentally and physically?"The hypnotherapy for some can be more effective then antidepressant and such and with no side effects. It is alot of info to go over all the ways it works for IBS, so I suggest reading up on it first to start. Its not a cure but can be for most a very effective way to treat your IBS. CBT is also another option to consider. These are both things you can also dicuss with your doctor also.www.ibshypnosis.com http://www.med.unc.edu/medicine/fgidc/relax.htm http://www.ibsaudioprogram.com/ http://www.med.unc.edu/medicine/fgidc/hypnosis.htm


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## LTL (Dec 18, 2001)

Eric,I think it would be of enormous value for someone like yourself or BBolen to look at Paradoxical Intention & tell the group what you think of it.It is documented that it has worked wonders for people with other problems caused by anticipatory anxiety, and it has been a great tool for me against IBS. I suspect that the only reason that people don't use it for IBS is that they don't know about it.Some time ago Marilyn & BQ had posted some positive comments about it because they remembered reading about it in "Man's Search For Meaning" by Victor Frankl - and one of them (sorry, I don't remember which) had used it to help stutterers ... so I really hope that someone of good repute (that rules me out







)looks into it in depth, & perhaps even does an informal study in it's use in IBS. Anyone up for pioneering research?????


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Ltl, post a seperate post for Dr Bolen on her comments with it. I am also trying to look it up and learn more about it, but that may take a while.







So far from what I read its interesting and I can see where it would apply.I don't want to suggest it myself until I know more about it really.


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## cookies4marilyn (Jun 30, 2000)

Yes, As a speech pathologist, I did use this approach with stutterers. It is a different technique than hypnotherapy processes, however, because paradoxical intention is done strictly on the concsious level. In the case of my patients, it taught them that they could be in control of their blocks, that it was something that they were doing, and to try to dispel the feeling of their blocks being something that was happening "to" them. Typically with my stuttering patients, they would develop all kinds of secondary mannerisms to break themselves out of the block. They would perhaps, slap their side, and then be able to release the sound. After a while, this would no longer work for them, so they would add an eye wink to the slap, then be able to release the sound. For some poor unfortunates, by the time they got to the clinic, they would literally not be able to walk and talk at the same time! But it did show that, for a time at least, they were in control of releasing their block. But this put pressure on them. By telling my patients to stutter on every word, that every sound coming out of their mouth should be blocked, and to do it "on purpose" they began to override the tendency to try so hard to stop the block, and instead were trying so hard to do it on purpose, that it was too much of a strain to force it, and they spoke with fluency. It may also be pointed out, that stutterers usually are fluent when singing (Mel Tillis), or when talking to animals, or sometimes when whispering. This told the patient that he was capable of normal speech fluency; he did have control over it.This would be an interesting study, I think, and there would be a lot involved in it. Since the mind has been "taught" to believe it should have IBS attacks, especially when stressed, clinical hypnotherapy works on the subconcsious level to retrain the imprinting done there and break that mind-gut connection. Thus, what the mind can conceive to be true can be true. But with paradoxical intention, you are giving the mind a message, it interprets it on a different conscious level, you are actively giving yourself the direction (permission) to have an all out attack; the mind perceives this as impossible, (filling a farm field, using LTL's example), and dismisses it, shutting down the signals. Speaking from my own experience, the technique worked well with stutterers, but sadly, for many, the technique became just another "mannerism" or crutch, and did not work with every patient, and with those it did work with, for some it was not on-going. I have not read recent studies on it, and since I have not been in practice for quite a while, I am not certain if therapists are still using this technique. This is not to say it is not effective, but I am wondering about the long term. In research on hypnotherapy, the studies are showing more long term effects, with use for IBS patients. A study using Paradoxical Intention strictly for IBS would be interesting, but it would be quite some time before it could be proven for IBS usage for the long term.Like so many IBS treatments, would this technique eventually "wear off", or could it become learned behavior, where the mind gradually dismissed an oncoming attack? Would have to be studied over the course of a few years.That being said, however, I think a person should use whatever technique is right for you, and what gives you relief. I am also wondering, how using Paradoxical Intention, coupled with hypnotherapy would work out! Would you be giving yourself permission to have an attack, and then your subconscious would block it for the long term? Hmm, new territory, or one worthy of researching... Intriguing! Also, note this post is my own feeble take on things, I am not speaking clinically or anything, just from my own experience with using this technique.


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## LTL (Dec 18, 2001)

Eric,You're probably wise to not suggest it until you know more - I keep suggesting it because it's worked so well for me. But who knows what it will do for/to others? I certainly don't, but if it's as good for others as it has been to me, I don't want others to miss out on it ... so I guess I don't know the best way to approach it.Marilyn, You offer quite a different mechanism for how it works than what I thought - I thought that it worked because the user was no longer afraid of the behavior because they're trying to create the behavior, and it was the fear that caused the behavior (thus breaking the vicious cycle). But then I realized that I was just assuming that's how it works - I don't think I read it anywhere. So I found your discussion to be enlightening.Regarding comparing PI to HT, I see PI as a band-aid. It's good (for me anyway) for emergencies & has helped me on innumerable car trips. HT is clearly (I think) the way to go in the long run, but many people come here needing help for some impending situation where there isn't time for HT.Whether it has had a long-term effect on me is difficult to say. I tend to think that it hasn't, but it does help knowing that if I get in a difficult situation, I can always pull that out of my bag of tricks.


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## cookies4marilyn (Jun 30, 2000)

LTL... Yes, that's exactly the take I had on it as well.. something to help you cope in the interim! I say whatever helps you...go for it!Thanks for sharing!


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