# IBS and autoimmune diseases...



## laney_001 (Nov 25, 2000)

My mom has Rheumatoid arthritis, an autoimmune disease that attacks the joints. Well, she saw on a news special (unfortunately she forgets which one or I would have investigated it myself) that researchers are wondering if there isn't a correlation between IBS and autoimmune diseases. I am a medical student and am learning all about genetics and how many different genes can be related to a single disease causing seemingly unrelated effects or producing part of the effect of a disease without producing the whole symptom (in other words, there is SO MUCH science DOESN'T KNOW about genetics). So, what I am wondering, is if any of you out there HAVE an autoimmune disease or if you are related to anyone with one. This could be a gold mine if we were to figure anything out. It's worth checking, anyway....


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## pevanson (Jan 21, 2002)

Pardon my ignorance, what are autoimmune diseases?


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## M&M (Jan 20, 2002)

well i don't know if this will help you, but here i go. lol i have IBS, and i have never been diagnosed, BUT after all the reading i have done i feel i have MANY of the symptoms of fibromyaligia and i also have TMJ. i also have low blood pressure (my standing blood pressure is 90/60) and i tend to pass out when i am worn out or experiencing pain from my IBS. i think that about covers it for now. my mom also has TMJ. i wish you the best on this study you are trying to do, i feel like you are DEFINITELY on the right track, a lot of these diseases ARE related to IBS. people with IBS can tell you this, but we cannot tell you why. i also have endometriosis. i am also 23 just to let you know! post back if you need more info. =)


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## laney_001 (Nov 25, 2000)

An autoimmune disease is one where your body develops antibodies against itself. A definition in my medical dictionary is 'any disorder in which loss of function or destruction of normal tissue arises from immune responses to the body's own tissues'. For example, in Rheumatoid Arthritis, your body destroys connective tissue in your joints. Other autoimmune diseases are systemic lupus, thyroiditis, autoimmune hemolytic anemia, type 1 diabetes, multiple sclerosis etc....Ask your family. You may find out something interesting. The whole point of this is to somehow find a way to encourage research in this direction and maybe find some real help for us who suffer with this ANNOYING problem.


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## chelsea (Jun 26, 2000)

I actually have asthma and allergies, although I don't think it's an autoimmune problem, but they are a result of an overreactive immune system, aren't they? I was reading a number of different posts about the possible correlation between IBS and asthma, as both the GI tract and respiratory tract have similar visceral or mucosal linings, and that they both can become inflammed in the same way. I know that when my asthma or allergies are flared up, my gut and stomach are wrenching with cramping and gas and sometimes constipation. It feels like someone has just punched me in the stomach and has knocked the wind out of me. Have you read this on the research and abstract forum? The study is quite interesting. What do you think?


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## T423 (Oct 8, 2001)

Dear Laney,Your post regarding a connection between autoimmune diseases and irritable bowel-constipation interested me as, my new oncologist (breast ca 7/19/01) whom I just saw 1/24 is wondering if many of the innumerable symptoms I've experienced over the last couple of years including GI dysmotility is related to an autoimmune disease or connective tissue disease/disorder. So, he drew a lot of blood and is running a lot of tests. I wonder.....-Tanya


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## atrain (Jun 22, 2001)

my sister also has IBS-C (like me), she also has arthritis in her knees, is that an autoimmune diesease?? not sure, thought i'd write it anyways


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## Belladonna (Mar 27, 2002)

Hi- I am obviously a "joey" on this board. Just spent the weekend in the hospital with debilitating pain from newly diagnosed IBS (C-type.) I do have a stressful job, but I also had a thyroidectomy 2.5 years ago due to a tumor. I suffer from hypothyroidism and Hashimoto's thyroiditis. Constipation is a symptom of hypothyroidism. It is an interesting connection as the thyroid is the regulator of the body and IBS seems to be related to serotonin uptake. Thanks for your curiosity.


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## alihawk (Oct 23, 2000)

HiAutoimmune diseses are definatley connected to IBS. I have had IBS C for 7 years and now I am being worked for Hashimotos thyroiditis and endometriosis, oth auto immune disease. Also now all auto immune disease are genetically linked. I will be interested to find out my thyroid results. It would be wonderful to finally have an answer after all these years. Alison


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote: including GI dysmotility


How do you know have that?


> quote:Autoimmune diseses are definatley connected to IBS


No, they are not.


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

comment:1. Patients with asthma appear to be about 30% more likely than non-asthmatics to develop IBS, esp. d-predominant or cyclic d&c IBS. The gut immune system, esp. the mucosal system, are very similar, and there is a good chance that dysfunction which stimulates mast cells in the lungs will be accompanied by a similar effect on the gut wall. Some people with asthm are predisposed to gut immunocyte hypersensitivity as well as "lung" hypersensitivity. Sometimes this is due to actual allergy (IgE antibodies formed specifically to a food, or an inhalant allergy which causes a cross-reaction with certain foods)...this is failry well understood and can be rooted out by a patient allergist who understands and accepts the limitations of skin-testing, RAST and ELISA testing for IgE/IgG[x], and how to interpet them clinically. IBS-d types have shown a very high short term response rate to treatment with mast cell stabilizers like cromolyn sodium, or anti-prostaglandins...sadly tachyphylaxis makes CS treatment long term not efficicacious.IBS victims with asthma have a much higher likelihood of getting a good response to very basic, but well executed, dietary intake logging, symptom logging, and diet modification due to the prevalence of actaul allergic reaction or pseudollergic reactions in this subpopulation.2. IBS-d, and cyclic IBS, in the absence of pathogen positive stool cultures, is not an uncommon COMORBIDITY with autoimmune dysfunction, including rheumatoid arthritis, Crohns, fibromyalgia etc. The common ground(s) in some cases are the prevalence of immune complexes, sometimes not. Their formation in the plasma secondary to altered permeability which results from an aberrant lymphocyte responsne in the small bowel plays a role in some. There are several unique subpopulations. BAsically, though, it is more related to a cell-mediated aberration which coexists with the autoimmune dysfunction, not an IgE mediated allergic reaction. More and more evidence is slowly emerging about the role of aberrations in lymphocyte function in various symptom sets.There is a relationship between them as comorbid conditions, and anything which provokes the t-cell reactionm in the small bowel, as has been recently isolated in patients showing IBS symptoms, positive oral challenge inflammtory response to various food classes, but NO clinical allergy, does not alter the autoimmune mechanisms per se, but it results in the release of MORE proinflammtory mediators, first in the small bowel, thus into the blood vessels and circulation where they can affect other areas of the body including worsening joint inflammtion and muscle pain as well (arthralgia), but certain mediators liberated may provoke second-tier and third-tier responses among circulating immunocytes which are activated by mechanisms which can be upregulated by certain mediators released in the primary reaction. This cascade effect also becomes self-perpetuating when a person is repeatedly exposed to the provocation..esp. if it is something included in their routine daily diet.This is just beginning to dawn on allergists after many years of demonstration of probablity by immunologists who study this, and the creation of new methods which can isolate and reproduce these cell mediated reactions in vitro, as well as methods of isolating the small bowel and provoking them in vivo are giving rise to new visualizations of these other mechanisms.It has indeed ben assumed for many years that the mechansism related to these apparent comorbidities were not related, but as it becomes clearer that there are mechanisms which are not as well understood as everyone thought, this view may be revised in the near future.In the meantime, what is important to the patient is that persons suffering autoimmune conditions do have a higher risk than the general population of suffering other immune dysfunctions, and that when these are triggered they ADD their symptomology atop the underlying symptomomology and worsen the symptoms. Many of these, and what triggers them, can be isolated and removed, thus reducing the total symptomology and use of medications, such as NSAIDS, which can lead to a worsening of IBS symptoms if used long term.I recommend the following reading to better understand the subject, pending a new book which is ine diting and which is more current which should be out by the end of the year...."FOOD ALLERGIES AND FOOD INTOLERANCE: THE COMPLETE GUIDE TO THEIR IDENTIFICTION AND TREATMENT", Professor Jonathan Brostoff , M.D.. Allergy, Immunology and Environmental Medicine, Kings' College, London http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/089...6487508-3420903 IBS: A DOCTORS PLAN FOR CHRONIC DIGESTIVE TROUBLESBy Gerard Guillory, M.D.; Vanessa Ameen, M.D.; Paul Donovan, M.D.; Jack Martin, Ph.D. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-h...9085785-1742301 Eat well. Think well. be well.MNL


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## dhove (Apr 1, 2002)

My mother also has RA, she has had it since she was 50. I am now 47, and have had symptoms of IBS for several years, but have also had some symptoms of RA, and take vioxx daily.


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## anne de cock (Nov 9, 2001)

yes, I have Hashimoto's thyroid disease as well...I also have really dry eyes (no more tear producing and I cannot tolerate any artifial tears as well), dry nose and dry mouth, which, according to my doctor is typical for an auto imune disease....I've won the lotery, I guess...


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## Krystyn (May 25, 2002)

I was just reading through the archives, and thought I would reply to this post in case it would be helpful to Laney. I have uveitis and ankylosing spondylitis (both juvenile onset, uveitis at 7, AS at 12, I am 22 now). I have not been diagnosed IBS formally, but it is what we suspect. I take Methotrexate for my uveitis, and it helped my IBS sx at first, now they are just different than they were before the medication. Any other questions, please ask.Probably the more likely story is that I have a form of IBD - aren't eyes, gut and spine the "classic triad"?Kristin


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## Audrey Fussell (May 22, 2002)

I don't know if there is a confirmed connection but funny how I was diagnosed with both IBS -D and LUPUS (autoimmune disease) right about the same time. 3 months ago I stopped eating red meat, dairy, fat foods, both my IBS-D and my LUPUS have improved. I also take methatrexate, folic acid, and vioxx. I've been able to reduce my methatrexate from .8cc to .7cc without having any problems. I try to keep a positive attitude and know that tomorrow is another day. Good luck to you all. If anyone has LUPUS please reply and let me know. Thanks


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## Krystyn (May 25, 2002)

Hi Audrey,I don't have lupus but take Methotrexate (20 mg/week by injection - not sure what that is in cc's). Did you notice a change in your IBS symptoms when you started MTX? (I have IBS-C/D)Kristin


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## DonnaDB (Jan 13, 2001)

Yep, I have IBS-C/Crohn's Disease (strange combo huh?). The C overtakes the D bigtime!!! Anyway, also have FM. Autoimmune diseases run in my family (Sjogrens syndrome).


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## Aquarius (Jan 11, 2002)

Yes, I too have other autoimmune diseases. I have IBS-C, Graves Disease (Hyperthyroidism), Interstitial Cystitis (IC), and lots of environmental allergies. I am convinced that they are all related. I read an article (wish I could remember where) that said that some researchers think that IBS and IC are just connective tissue manifestations of some as yet undetected systemic autoimmune disease.Perhaps some day Laney will discover a cause and cure







.


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## Audrey Fussell (May 22, 2002)

Kristin - I've been on Methotrexate for about a year. Yes I've had improvement with my Lups with 1 big flare







and had a small decrease in my D (except the day after the injection when I don't leave the house until I go as it usually gives me the big D)







. I use to take it in pill form but switched to self-injections (easier on the tummy)1x a week with what I think is .8cc I am not sure how that relates to mg. I have run into a problem with mouth sores from the methatrexate but have been able to lesson them with increasing my folic acid 2 days before and after my injection. What are you taking it for and how has it affected you? It is a heavy duty med with lots of possible side effects and scares me. I would love to get off of it. Thats why I've reduced my dose from .8 to .7 tomorrow I am going to try .6 Hope to hear from you. Have a good day.


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## Krystyn (May 25, 2002)

Hi Audrey! I have been on MTX for a year in August. I was on the pills first too but I was vomiting all the time, the injections have helped that. I get mouth sores too, and hair loss - do you take folic acid? I take MTX for severe uveitis (inflammation in the eye), because the usual treatment did not work for me, and caused a lot of structural damage to my eyes. That drug was steroids (drops, pills, injections). No matter how scary MTX is, I try to keep in mind that it is a LOT better than long-term steroids. I am also tired a lot, but I think that's partially because I now have a form of anemia (not low iron), I can't remember the name of it. It's a struggle to function on MTX for me, but I know a lot of people don't have these side effects. It's not working as well as we had hoped for my eyes so I will probably start another agent soon, and MTX is the nicest one in terms of side effects... I am a little nervous!Is MTX helping your lupus? Are you tapering with your doctor's help?Kristin


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## Audrey Fussell (May 22, 2002)

Kristin - Yes it seems to be helping my Lupus, and no I haven't talked with my dr. about tappering off. It is terrible trying to get thru to her. I am supposed to see her July 12 but found out I am traveling then. So I am praying I can reschedule within a few days of my visit. But I am worried I wont be able to because she is booked forever. Goog luck with your meds. I am sure it is scary as hell worrying about it affecting your eyes. I will keep you in my prayers. Best of luck.


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## Lexi (Jul 29, 2002)

Hello, I am new to the Bulletin Board. I just found it today! I also just heard about Zelnorm and how wonderful it supposedly works. I'll be in to see my doctor shortly. I have an autoimmune disease called "Vitiligo" (some might know it as the "Michael Jackson disease). Laney, if you go to Vitiligosupport.com site you will find a lot of people with IBS that have this skin disease. I always thought it was related somehow. Lexi


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## laney_001 (Nov 25, 2000)

I dont' know if this is anything similar to other skin diseases/ problems such as vitiglio, but ever since I saw my allergist and changed my diet, my IBS-C and eczema have vanished (as long as I stick to the diet). There is a strong correlation between GI allergies and reactions and skin reactions.


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## laney_001 (Nov 25, 2000)

I admit, I started this post and then left it for months because I didn't have time to get to it and it's the last thing I felt like looking at when I had a free minute. Anyway, I read over some of the replies and I really want to let you all know that my allergist put me on a diet and all my symptoms (many of which are mentioned in this post) are gone as long as I stick to it. My symptoms for 5 years have been IBS-C, eczema, mild asthma, and insomnia. They are 95% better now. The diet is pretty strict and I was reluctant to follow it, but the more I do, the easier it gets. I posted about it on another board and no one seemed to be interested in my diet. But if you are interested, let me know. I'm happy to share.


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## jimmye (Nov 13, 2001)

I'm interested, please do share with us, thanks for offering. J


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## laney_001 (Nov 25, 2000)

OK. Here's what my diet is. It was designed by a Dr. Walsch in St. Paul, Mn. He studied at Mayo Clinic and has been in practice for 40 years. He's an allergist. He skin tested me for everything and nothing was striking. So, since my symptoms are consistent with food allergies (GI troubles, asthma, and aczema) he put me on this diet that he thinks helps 50% of allergy sufferers. This includes people with a HUGE range of problems including migranes, IBS-D, hyperactivity etc. ANyway, the foods the diet eliminates are ones that either are rough on the digestive system or are relatively new to our diets (within the past 200 or less years-- think how long we've been around... 200 years is nothing in evolution). What he eliminates is MSG which is in anything fermented (cheeses, alcohol) and anything really flavorful like doritoes and many, many other things-- sausage, mushrooms etc), refined sugar (new to our diets and including honey), tomatoes and potatos (both are highly acidic), anything with citric acid (berries of all sorts, citrus fruits, lots of juices and other things are sweetened with citric acid), and artificial sweeteners. There is a book he wrote called "Treating Food Allergy My Way" that talks about each food group individually and clarifies what foods ARE OK, too. My life is completely changed. I wish EVERYONE could go see Dr. Walsch. But his book is all you really need to try the diet. The book is interesting, too. I hope this information finds many of you because it has really changed my life-- I'm normal again (except my diet is quite different). It's easier all the time to do the diet. It's hard to get it started but if it is right for you, you'll find it's easier as you go.My best to you and God Bless!


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:This includes people with a HUGE range of problems including migranes, IBS-D, hyperactivity etc.


Allergies generally cause very specific symptoms and it's usually a very lmited set of foods and in very limited number of people. There are other reactions like Chinese restaurant syndrome, but your description implies the book contains at least some amount of science fiction.


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## jimmye (Nov 13, 2001)

Thanks Laney, I will try to find the book, it sounds like it would be helpful and I have had the same responses to allergy testing, nothing striking, but, my body reacts to many foods in a negative way never the less. Diet is the one real factor that impacts my ibs/c condition. I live with it daily. Thanks again, Jimmye


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## JackieGian (Mar 23, 2002)

My son has histiocytosis X along with IBS. Not exactly an autoimmune disease, but involves the immune system.


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## laney_001 (Nov 25, 2000)

Flux, I want to reply to you directly. My allergist received a lot of grief by other allergists for his theory because of things like what you said. It doesn't scientifically make sense, but it isn't science fiction as far as I, myself, and many others are concerned. My IBS-C was TERRIBLE for 5 years and now it's nearly gone. It doesn't bother me if you don't want to try the diet. That's your choice. You say yourself you are not a doctor so please don't assume you know things that even doctors don't know. It's good to be skeptical about things sometimes, but this is something that goes against the odds and actually works. I hope others will enjoy the results I have enjoyed. It may not be an "allergy" exactly that causes the symptoms. It is a reaction of some sort where the body freaks out at the crazy things you put in it. That freaking out can manifest itself in many ways. I have no more eczema. I am no longer constipated. I breath very well now when I work out. 3 months ago, this was not at all the case. Call it science fiction or whatever you want. The facts are, it works.


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2002)

Laney-This is very interesting. And I'm going to try your diet as well. Its so rare when someone says something works. I have asthma and got it about the same time I got gut troubles. Also have had really bad sinuses all my life due to swelling membranes that don't seem to be sensitive to most allergens-just plain sensitive. When my stomach is really acting up or when I get sinus infections I become itchy all over my body. Bizarre. My sister has often wondered if i had a problem with my immune systems response and if IBS wasn't part of that. Its strange but just from reading people's posts there seems to be a connection. Do you know if the diet your doctor prescribed is in the Treating Food Allergy My Way book?


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## slacker (Mar 23, 2002)

I have Raynaud's pretty bad, that is auto-immune, right? What about edma in the hands and lower leg, is that auto-immune or Raynaud's related? Slacker


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## laney_001 (Nov 25, 2000)

Joanofarc, I agree that nothing ever seems to really work. I am THRILLED to be able to share something that does. I wish more people would read about it and try it because my life is SO MUCH better now that I feel normal most of the time. The diet is what that book is all about. It basically explains the whys of each food group removed from your diet. It's GREAT if you ask me and it is really interesting and easy to read.


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## Cordy (Jul 1, 2002)

Laney--BUT WHAT CAN YOU EAT? I'd like to see the list of foods you are actually eating. A list of the 'don'ts" only leaves me starving. Please share under the other thread where you brought up the diet again and I responded. Thanks.I also wanted to say that I have some of the things that one of the first posters in this thread posted: they might not be autoimmune, but I thought it was very interesting that I had so many similar symptoms as ...........above: Endometriosis, TMJ, low blood pressure.Also, I am VERY C right now, and my nose is greatly plugged up.....had a headache last night....etc. I hope I have a BM soon.


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