# the truth about Imodium!



## 13540 (Aug 18, 2005)

Well i went in to see my g.i doc today and my other g.i doctor showed up for my visit as well! i'm going in for my last and final test over the worry's about my liver over my dx of i.b.s Im having a CT abdomen and pelvis with contrast this week! I seen alot of talk about how much is to much of imodium..Well today i had two of the best g.i doctor's in my state say imodium is very safe they have patient taking up to 10 a day for many years..Because i told my Doc i stop taking it because on the box it say's do not take if you have liver problems are you may think you have them..And they just smiled at me and said to go back to taking it no since in suffering anymore! So if my test come back normal this week i have to change my way of thinking and take my dx that it just good old i.b.s!


----------



## BQ (May 22, 2000)

It is very safe for many, many of us. So glad nothing else more sinister than IBS was found so far for you Forrest.All the bestBQ


----------



## Glenda (Aug 15, 2000)

Yes Immodium is very safe to use for treating Diarrhea.Just be carefull not to "Over Do It" .The recommended dose is "4 tablets in 24 hours" > as stated on the Box.Over use can have catastrophic results.


----------



## Patman75 (Mar 9, 2008)

sigh....just masking the problem. Another GI without a clue.


----------



## shyanna von banana (Jun 4, 2009)

my gyno doctor kind of did the same thing. she was pushing me to take yaz saying that I probably wouldnt have any long term side effects. I have seen a lot of doctors who like to push pills. In the end it gets them a lot more money. I mean most ppl go to the doctors so that the doctors will give them something to relieve their symptoms. Y would doctors say bad things about pill? If the doctors dont push pills y would ppl come back?


----------



## Glenda (Aug 15, 2000)

Excellent Point PatMan and Shyanna , people are always on their doctor's door steps for every ailment know to man kind and why , Pills to relieve it.Doctor's push pills like they are Tic-Tac's.Sure they want to help us , but they also want to get us out of the office.Many of them will give us anything we want , within reason.The world is Obcessed with Pills. They think it will be the Magic fix / Cure.Sometimes it is , many times it is Not.That is why I refuse to take drugs of any kind.I have my one digestive enzyme pill and that is it.Since I began taking it , my IBS has almost completely Vanished.Doctor's push Anti Depressants and Anti Anxiety drugs like they are candy from the grocery.Many folks do not even require them because they have nothing that warrents their use.Yes some do and that's ok.But to just give these pills to someone so they will go away and shut up is unthinkable.These drugs can do major harm and the longer you take them , You Are Hooked and Addicted.I won't subject myself to this C*R*A*P.With my sister being a retired RN , she has seen what long tern use of this stuff can do to a person.For those that do need these medications because you have serious ailments that warrents their use , that is ok and hopefully they help you.But if you don't have a condition that requires using them , don't use this stuff.In my opinion , why take an anti depressant if your not depressed at all , and only because some one tells you , it might help your IBS.No thankyou.These drugs are very harmfull.Look at all the Junk Michael Jackson was on. A huge cocktail list.And I have seen quite afew folks here that do take some of these type medications.The outcome for doing this is Horrific.I would be scared crapless to do this to myself.If you take pills , don't over do them. Follow the dose.And any doctor that tells you , yeah it's Ok to load up on this stuff , is probably getting one hell of a pay check from the Pharmacutical companys.They are pill pushers.Not me , I know better.When I die my Toxicology report will be Clean. (Minus the Pancrease MT-20 )


----------



## 13540 (Aug 18, 2005)

Well i dont see much of people posting about there g.i doc's well here is my g.i doc that dx me with i.bs and did most of my work up he works with gastrointestinal motility disorders! his name is Derek C.taylor.md! http://nwgastro.net/doctors.aspand my second g.i doc for my second opion her name is judith Collins m.d another very caring doctor and both these doctors do not push any pills on you what so ever http://www.ohsu.edu/xd/health/services/cli...oenterology.cfmI was really shocked to see them both there at my visit when they both work in to diffrent clinic's! So not all doc's are out for the kick back from meds!So if you live in my state of Oregon we have some great g.i doc's I have always wonder what happen to Eric that use to help out alot on these boards i was able to make it to one of his i.b.s support groups he use to do does anyone know if he still comes in on these boards?


----------



## Patman75 (Mar 9, 2008)

Forrest said:


> I was really shocked to see them both there at my visit when they both work in to diffrent clinic's! So not all doc's are out for the kick back from meds!


You are very lucky to find some of the good ones.


> And any doctor that tells you , yeah it's Ok to load up on this stuff , is probably getting one hell of a pay check from the Pharmacutical companys.


Bingo!


----------



## BQ (May 22, 2000)

> sigh....just masking the problem. Another GI without a clue.


Well until the most current research gets known enough & published enough to get down to them in their offices and the ROME crtiteria gets updated as well as the standard protocol of treatment for IBS gets updated.... imodium IS a good treatment for diarrhea... is it not?I hear what you are saying Glenda, Shy & Pat but honestly you three seem to express that ALL doctors are absolutely evil pill pushers. Get real.. many of them help many of us to cope the best we can with this horrendous condition. Sometimes they offer pills and sometimes they do not and they offer other treatment methods. To paint them all with a large negative paint brush is... unfair to say the least. Sure maybe the three of you have found ways to manage your D without having to use a product like imodium. But MANY of us have *not* been that lucky. And telling us (over & over again) how evil imodium is .. frankly isn't helpful.Please don't misunderstand... PLEASE, by ALL means, share what HAS worked for you. But I would personally appreciate it if you would NOT stand in negative judgement of what works for others.ThanksBQ


----------



## Glenda (Aug 15, 2000)

I personally DON'T CARE if people want to Pill Up . That's their choice.And YES doctor's "Do" get kick backs from Drug Manafactures.Probably damn big ones.Not all doc's push pills , BUT , Many Do.I have seen enough of them that have tried this "Bull" on me.And it is MY Choice NOT to take these medications.If people would do MAJOR INDEPTH RESEARCH on these medications , you would see for your self just how dangerous they have the potential to be.AND , if you would investigate it even further , Find out about the dangers of mixing this stuff.Then see just how dangerous it is to keep adding on more and more stuff.I have had my primary care try to push stuff on me and then add more and more onto it.I have even questioned this person about mixing things , and have been told , whoops , I forgot I had you on that one, and I over looked the fact it isn't to be mixed. Glad ya caught my error.Holy Jesus , that could have cost me My Life if I hadn't been aware of these potential situations.Doctor's sometimes forget what they have YOU on , because they see so many people and their charts all run together andit becomes a big Blur for them.I research and investigate everything that pertains to me and my health and any potential med's that I might require in future times.If I know I don't need it , I WON'T TAKE IT*And I Refuse to take med's for conditions I don't have , just for the sole purpouse that it MIGHT cause constipation for my "D".I treasure my life greatly , and I will not subject myself to using Pills 24 / 7 , if they aren't necessary.For those of you that really need this stuff , that is OK. Use the Pills wisely !!Don't keep taking excess amounts , because you think it will eventually work.I can bet 99 % that you'll find out other wise in the end.Try seeking out other possible alternatives such as Nutrapathic and Holistic type things.Personally , I am Native American (Cherokee) , and My family has had Alternatives for the last 250 years.Passed down thru Generations and this is a wondefull way to relieve almost all ailments that crop up.Seek alternatives if possible.If you can't find any , then use wise Judgment before you swallow that pill , I'd hate to see the nice folks here Expire*.


----------



## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

It is so much harder to get any information about alternatives than pharmeceuticals which is why I think people assume all alternatives are perfectly safe.If it is biologically active (that means it CAN actually do something to you) it has side effects and toxic doses just like anything created in a lab. After all every last poison used until the last couple of hundred years was from something natural.The sales people for vitamins and herbs can be way more misleading about their products and even when there is info on side effects and such they will do whatever it takes to pretend it doesn't exist.Big Pharma isn't innocent, but don't think your local herb peddler is any better. It is just as much a big business and all about the profit. They are just much less regulated. After all for the last several years more Hoodia has been sold each year than you can harvest in 10. It is hard to know who is putting something else in them and not telling you what and who is actually using the real thing. Unfortunately we will never be able to regulate natural remedies as they have a lock on the lobbying and will prevent any legislation that requires them to prove that what is on the label is what is in the pill. A least Big Pharma has to do that.


----------



## BQ (May 22, 2000)

I'm using "wise" judgement... but thanks for your 'concern'???BQ


----------



## Patman75 (Mar 9, 2008)

Please don't take this the wrong way. These are just my opinions. I'm not mad, angry, etc... It is hard to have a conversation with posts. There is no emotion here.


> imodium IS a good treatment for diarrhea... is it not?


There is better ways with less side effects. http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&am...um+side+effects I personally rather fix the problem than cover it up. But that is just the way that I am now, years ago I had the mentality of just give me a pill. After years I just taking pills I looked around for something else. What I found was relief through diet and supplements.


> you three seem to express that ALL doctors are absolutely evil pill pushers. Get real.


I never said that "ALL" doctors. Ok maybe 99%...no no just joking














. There are good and bad ones. Unfortuately I think there are more bad than good. If they were all good we would not have a forum would we?


> But I would personally appreciate it if you would NOT stand in negative judgement of what works for others.


I know I might bash on the Modern medical industry a bit but I NEVER bash or think negative of people for what ever treatment they have to do to improve their quality of life. I try to suggest other alternatives to meds. If I did not change my diet, take supplements to improve my bacteria flora and remove enviromental toxins I would be 50 lbs over weight, have uncontrolable D, ugencey, eczema, cramping, acne, taking twice as much meds (most likey on strogner meds) and just miserable. This was done with no help from any GI. This was from help with a Nutritonist and my hard work, dedication & research.I'm still not med free, but one day I will be hopefully sooner than later. I still on the road to recovery. It is long and bumpy but worth the ride.Good health to all.Pat


----------



## keycat (Apr 6, 2009)

I agree with BQ, and in defense of the doctors - many of them prescribe pills for conditions like IBS because they feel that they have to do _something._ They too feel helpless when confronted with a disease like IBS that has no clear cause or treatment. Some doctors may feel they are failing a patient by telling him or her "there's nothing I can do." They want to give us some hope of improvement, so they prescribe drugs. You can't blame doctors for prescribing anti-depressants or recommending Imodium because both drugs have been proven effective in the treatment of IBS. I disagree with you, Glenda, when you say "why take an anti-depressant if you're not depressed at all?" Anti-depressants are regularly used to treat a variety of different conditions other than depression, including anxiety, insomnia, pain disorders, and IBS. Anti-depressants are not unique in this regard. Throughout medical history, drugs that were invented for one purpose have been found to have multiple other uses. This doesn't mean that anti-depressants are right for everyone. There are a lot of reasons not to take anti-depressants. They have side effects; they may not work. But people who are really suffering from IBS and have not found any relief from other treatments shouldn't resist taking anti-depressants because they "aren't depressed." Anti-depressants are a legitimate treatment option for IBS, and should be treated as such.


----------



## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

One other thing on alternatives. Make sure you tell your doctor everything you are taking before you have surgery or get put under for a test. Many of them increase bleeding (thinning the blood can be a good thing, just not when they are cutting you open) and a lot of them interact with just as many drugs as any thing Big Pharma ever invented and you may need to stop them before being sedated so you can be sedated or don't get way too sedated.Even some foods should be discussed like grapefruit. It alters the blood level of a lot of other drugs and can make you have too much or too little of the drug in your blood.


----------



## Glenda (Aug 15, 2000)

Yes I have seen where folks here are helped by anti depressants to controll their diarrhea , Even though they aren't depressed , or so they claim. They take it because, the doctor says , Constipation is a Possible side effect.Again , Do Indepth Research , and see the Real Skinny truth behind taking these medications. The longer your on it , your putting yourself in harms way. Risking Addiction too.And it's their choice to take this stuff. I WON'T be doing it though.I seek all alternatives to Pills if possible.With a Native American background , we have herbs , plants , roots for many illnesses.If at all possible Seek an alternative.If ya can't find one , then use Wise Judgment when you start taking pills.


----------



## Glenda (Aug 15, 2000)

By all means , tell you doctor what you take , No matter what it may be.Again , using "commen sense" when you take "Anything" could save your life.


----------



## overitnow (Nov 25, 2001)

I was once on the edge of Metabolic Syndrome (high cholesterol, elevated blood pressure, overweight, with an immediate family history of Type 2 diabetes) as well as suffering from IBS and falling asleep behind the wheel. Fortunately I have found a group of bioactive supplements that act upon some of these conditions, allow my personal chemistry/biology to address others, and have allowed me to pursue healthy behaviours which have multiplied those good effects. Given the almost housebound condition I was in 11 years ago, I have to assume that these outcomes are available to almost anyone who chooses to follow this same path.If I have a heart attack and survive it I will see a cardiologist and take the Warfarin; until then, I will just keep on with the flavonoids and the phytosterols and the omega 3. If I develop cancer I will see an oncologist and radiate myself; until then, I will keep packing on the anti-oxidents. If my sugars go out of sight, I will meet with the dietician; until then, I will keep taking the minerals that keep them controlled. (And if I had had my gall bladder taken out when I passed stones, I suppose I would be taking Questran or Caltrate.) I generally see a physician once a year, now. If something comes up, I will see her to get a specific medicine. Other than that, I currently have no need. She prescribes for sickness, I supplement for wellness. *That has worked for 11 years.*The last three doctors I have had have all been very supportive of me and of this approach. None of them has ever lectured me on the dangers of supplementation--and they have all had my list--because there haven't been any. Lucky me. Mark


----------



## Glenda (Aug 15, 2000)

These were passed down from my 4th Great Grand Mother. Native American Cherokee remedys for these perticular condition situations. (Agave Virginica) Chew root for obstinate problems with diarrhea. (Heuchera Americana) Root is an astringent; root tea for bowel complaints or dysentery (usually made with honey to improve the taste). (Penstemon Laevigatus) Tea for cramps. (Betula Lenta) chew leaves or drink tea for dysentery/ diarrhea. (Celastrus Scandens)Bark tea to settle stomach .These might be well worth investigating , and possibly even trying.A good alternative to the Pill world , for some.I have many of these family remedys that I have used.


----------



## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

The fact that 95% of all the serotonin in your body is in the gut nerves and that there are actual disturbances in that serotonin seen in IBSers I guess means nothing. Nor does the fact that IBS specific medications also generally effect serotonin is I guess also totally meaningless biologically.They picked them ONLY because constipation is a side effect is really a bad way of understanding why they are used in IBS. They are doing a fair amount of research into what specific things are broken in IBSers and actually using that information to select medication from what is already approved and developing new ones.Oh and I got NO PROBLEM with people using natural supplements and I do think they can for some people work really well. I just want them to have to prove to someone other than their own internal testing that if it says 500 mgs on the label of X it actually has X, not Y, not Z, but X and only X in it and that there is exactly 500 mgs, not 100, not 750 but 500. But I know that makes me evil, or something. Independent testing of supplements in general indicates way too many people don't care about quality control. Some do, but a lot don't care if it is loaded with lead or the herb has been collected into extinction in that particular region and you can't even get that ingredient anymore. There are plenty of stories of native people selling the wrong herbs to the companies because the companies do not care and they need the money.


----------



## IanRamsay (Nov 23, 2008)

hipills can fix you while you find the root. once you find the root, pull it out and then fix your self in which ever way you can that works. diet, probiotics, anti depressents, suppliments, one mans pleasure is another mans poison. this is just life. cheersIan


----------



## 13540 (Aug 18, 2005)

Kathleen M. said:


> One other thing on alternatives. Make sure you tell your doctor everything you are taking before you have surgery or get put under for a test. Many of them increase bleeding (thinning the blood can be a good thing, just not when they are cutting you open) and a lot of them interact with just as many drugs as any thing Big Pharma ever invented and you may need to stop them before being sedated so you can be sedated or don't get way too sedated.Even some foods should be discussed like grapefruit. It alters the blood level of a lot of other drugs and can make you have too much or too little of the drug in your blood.


Wow very clever on the Grapefruit Kathleen!! On my bottle of Xanax it says no Grapefruit i ask my doc that and he says if make's the med work less but i can have grapefruit drinks ect 2 hours after the Xanax's..If it where not for Xanax i would be skin and bones! One it helps promote me to eat and help's with my upset stomach! It calms my nerves down to let me eat! And im going to be taking double on this week while having this ct abdomen/pelvis with contrast they offer if you want to be sedated but i would just rather take my xanax's for this test you would think from all the tess i have had from small bowell follow threw hida scan camera pill upper/lower endo this one would be a piece of cake but it makes me scared of this on from some reason maby scared they will finlly find somthing!but ill let the board know about this test and whats funny im a pro on all the other tests...If people had ? about like the new camera pill i think i was the forth person in my state to have that done!


----------



## Glenda (Aug 15, 2000)

Blackcherry.A tea of blackberry roots was the most frequently used remedy for diarrhea among Indians of northern California. Wild Black Cherry.The Mohegans allowed the ripe wild black cherry to ferment naturally in a jar about one year than then drank the juice to cure dysentery. Geranium, boiled entire geranium plant and drink the tea for diarrhea. White Oak. boiled the bark of the white oak and drank the liquid for bleeding piles and diarrhea. Black Raspberry. boil the root bark of black raspberry for dysentery diarrhea. Star Grass. drink a tea of star grass leaves for dysentery/ diarrhea. Digestive DisordersDandelion.A tea of the roots was drunk for heartburn The tea from the root was used by the Cherokee as a stomach ache remedy & forFevers.NOW I AM NOT TELLING YOU TO TRY THIS > IT IS JUST AN ALTERNATIVE THAT HAS BEEN USED IN CHEROKEE NATIVE AMERICAN HISTORY.Worth an investigation.


----------



## Glenda (Aug 15, 2000)

More Information:For those that may be interested in this as an Alternative , possibility,Call > 1-918-453-5000 (The Cherokee Nation in Tahlequah , Oklahoma PO Box # 948 (zip 74465)ask to speak to the > Cherokee Nation Cultural Resource CenterThey have the complete list , and how these may be obtained.Give it some thought , it's interesting , and has been passed down over Hundreds of Years.


----------



## Thai (Aug 22, 2007)

Glenda,Did these alternatives work for you?Thai


----------



## BQ (May 22, 2000)

> There is better ways with less side effects.


What are they? If diet and supplements are what you are referring to... tried them all over the years and I didn't find relief. Sorry to disappoint you but not EVERYONE will be helped by what has helped YOU or anyONE else. Thought we had covered that.. but.. apparently not.


> If they were all good we would not have a forum would we?


Yes.. we would still be here. As of today there STILL isn't ONE way to "cure" IBS and loads of trial and error must be attempted by each & every sufferer regardless of how "good" their Docs are.


> I know I might bash on the Modern medical industry a bit but I NEVER bash or think negative of people for what ever treatment they have to do to improve their quality of life. I try to suggest other alternatives to meds.


Really?Cuz forgive me but this:


> Another GI without a clue.


 didn't sound that way. It sounded more like you were disrespecting Forrest's Doctor.


> If I did not change my diet, take supplements to improve my bacteria flora and remove enviromental toxins I would be 50 lbs over weight, have uncontrolable D, ugencey, eczema, cramping, acne, taking twice as much meds (most likey on strogner meds) and just miserable. This was done with no help from any GI. This was from help with a Nutritonist and my hard work, dedication & research


 But your solutions, _for you_, will still not help EVERY IBS sufferer out there. Patman, I'm happy for you, sincerely I am, that you have _found_ solutions. All I'm asking is for a little tolerance for other people's solutions.Glenda here is another tidbit for you to keep on your favorites. (This is an Herbal side effects info page)http://www.personalhealthzone.com/herbsafety.html For those of you interested about those herbs Glenda listed: (Glenda if you have more info _on those herbs_, by all means, post it.)Agave Virginica is also known as Aloe.Heuchera Americana is known as Alum Root.Penstemon digitalis is also known as Eastern Smooth Beardtongue.Betula Lenta is from birch.Celastrus Scandens is American Bittersweet.And here just some basic Herbal Supp info: "Facts about Botanical Supplements":http://arthritis.about.com/od/supplement/a...tbotanicals.htmGlenda that said... if you have a problem with how some folks who have PM'd you use imodium... why not _PM them_ with all of this info? That way you would be sure that the folks you were apparently initially concerned about would see it without doubt.Ditto to everything Keycat & Kathleen said. And Mark....Awesome that your Docs work so well with you! Mine does too.And Forrest... your are one blessed dude to have such great Docs too!BQ


----------



## shyanna von banana (Jun 4, 2009)

bQ I didnt say all doctors push pills I was just saying that doctors tend to. Well at least that is wht i meant. I am not against immodiums so dont throw me in that boat.I just dont like it when some doctors write ya a prescription for whtev you desire and then some ppl are on so many diff prescription its crazy. There are options and maybe a combo of drugs and alternatives(exercise,supplements,diet) can be helpful. Plus what im after is what is going to work, not a quick fix or something to surpress the symptoms. My brother probably would not have made it through high school with out riddlin. He had a severe case of adhd and for him he needed it. He made it through high school but his growth was stunted even tho he was prescribed steroids. He was prescribed steroids to combat the side effect of the riddlin. Now he is about and inch or so shorter then me and the doct thinks he got this skin condition from the steroids. He has spots on his arms that are much whiter then others and they produce huge blisters if he is the sun too long. Sometimes I think that maybe the riddlin did more harm the good b\c if we could have found a way for him to control his adhd then maybe he wouldnt have the health conditions he has now and would have a better grip on his hyperness. What im saying is drugs are for those who have no other option. LIke someone who is depressed does not necessarily need to take anti-depressants and it is unlikely that it would do them any good. Anti-depressants are for those who are severely depressed and have no other options and im pretty sure it is not a long term solution.Immodiums may be a treatment option for now but how long will it last? Immodiums have an up phase and then they bring you down. After awhile the upper phase will shorten and the down phase will be even longer. that does not sound like a long term solution to me. IM not saying ppl with ibs-d shouldnt take drugs i just hope we can find a long term plan to help for a greater period of time.


----------



## Thai (Aug 22, 2007)

shyanna von banana said:


> LIke someone who is depressed does not necessarily need to take anti-depressants and it is unlikely that it would do them any good. Anti-depressants are for those who are severely depressed and have no other options and im pretty sure it is not a long term solution.


Actually Shyanna, this statement is not accurate.A person who is clinically depressed does need meds to reverse the chemical imbalance that caused the depression in the first place.Why would you say that it is unlikely to do them any good?There are many people out there and right here on this board who owe their sanity and life to anti-depressants.Not so sure that you will convince them that they weren't needed.Also meds are essential for bipolar issues AND they are a long term solution as this is not a condition that goes away.Thai


----------



## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

I don't know why people assume supplements will be a permanent solution if you take them every day for the rest of your life and drugs can't be. Because none of the "fix the underlying problem with natural stuff" things is a take it for a month or so and then be fine the rest of your life. You have to take it for as long as the symptoms it treats last (or stay on the diet, etc.). But if it is a drug suppressing the symptoms it is symptom supression, but if it is an herb suppressing the exact same symptom somehow that is a cure.I really don't get it.Supplements generally work by the same biological mechanisms drugs do so have the same it works for awhile then it doesn't issue people have with drugs.How long any given treatment will work is going to vary and we have plenty of people here who have only taken supplements and have taken every last one available and all of them work for a few weeks then the IBS either varies so symptoms come back or the supplement wears off.It isn't unique to drugs. Your biology is the same whether you take an herb or a drug from a lab.Does it really matter if the anticholinergic compound is in an herb or in a pill. They still work on the same receptors and have the same side effects. The only problem is most of the plants that have them inside them (like Levsin from Henbane) are in plants that are too toxic to take as an herbal remedy. Henbane will make the colon calm down just like Levsin, but it has some hallucinogens in it that will make you completely non-functional for the duration. I'd rather be able to work and drive.


----------



## BQ (May 22, 2000)

> What im saying is drugs are for those who have no other option.


Right ... and for some there ARE no other options. Just wish that was able to be accepted by _some_ people.


> LIke someone who is depressed does not necessarily need to take anti-depressants and it is unlikely that it would do them any good.


Really?? C'mon Shy... I am praying that you meant to type: :"someone who is *not* depressed.." because antidepressants have been used successfully by so many people.What you all that are hollering about antidepressants don't understand is.. the Docs are NOT prescribing them at therapeutic levels for mental health problems! They are using them.. mostly to block pain recepetors in LOWER doses.Here some info:http://www.med.unc.edu/medicine/fgidc/antidepressants.pdfand../footer/medications.asp


> Immodiums may be a treatment option for now but how long will it last?


 For me??? 20+ years and counting. And I;m NOT alone.


> Immodiums have an up phase and then they bring you down.


Really?? An "up phase"??? No kidding. You have any links or urls that say that is true?Because I would love to read it... as I have _never_ experienced this "up phase" you speak of or for that matter the coordinating down phase you also speak of. News to me... and that is in over 20+ years of using it.


> IM not saying ppl with ibs-d shouldnt take drugs


Good, for a minute or 2 or 3 there .....it sure sounded that way from you and others on this thread.


> i just hope we can find a long term plan to help for a greater period of time.


 Well 20+ years and counting for me.... I'm good. And sure if there WAS a plan for NO drugs that worked for me (and I'm sure many others here) I (and those others) would be overjoyed.Til then... pass the imodium or whatever meds or supps seem to help.BQ


----------



## shyanna von banana (Jun 4, 2009)

plus i dont feel that natural remedies are different then drugs or at least not tht much different. LIke peppermint tea. A lot of people are a fan of this but peppermint is a strong muscle relaxint. So i feel loopy like my body is too relaxed like those sea creatures that have no spine. I have less d but cannot think. Im not against peppermint tea but I dont like to have it to often. Does anyone know how ppl with thyroid probs take thyroid hormones and it works for them? THe hormones are a solution for their problem with out creating more health issues. Well at least I have not heard of many. That is what I would like and many others would like for Ibs-d. I do not feel that immodiums are the solution for the problem of ibs-d but for now that is what most ppl have. that is why sometimes I may disagree with the consumption of an excessive amount of immodiums. It is clear that immodiums, and some other drugs(anti-depressants) are not going to be the solution so pushing it would be a dead end. Yes, I understand that some of these may work for some ppl but how well have they worked and what have they done in return for their efforts? i have yet to discover a herb that has provided the "solution" either. There is however drugs taken in moderate amount along with alternatives(exercising,therapy) that have produce positives results without causing as many serious side effects. So it would seem for now that moderate amounts of drugs with alternatives produces a closer solution then excessive amount of drugs\natural remedies. Does anyone understand this point of view? If so another explanation may be clearer for some.


----------



## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

About the only treatment for IBS that doesn't seem to be just symptom suppression (herbal or otherwise) are the mind body therapies.If you haven't tried hypnosis or Cog. Behav. Therapy (if you can get it as it is rarer for this) it may be worth a go.In the CBT trial I was in one of the things they noted was that with these treatments even after the treatment is over people continue to improve.I wish I knew a diet or supplement that will do that, but I don't and usually I get yelled at if I mention mind-body stuff to much.It is not because the illness is all in your head, but that the nerves in the gut talk to the nerves in your head and if you can give them the right feedback you can get them to function much better on an ongoing basis.


----------



## BQ (May 22, 2000)

> So it would seem for now that moderate amounts of drugs with alternatives produces a closer solution then excessive amount of drugs\natural remedies.


Obviously. I wasn't saying anything different from that.


> Does anyone understand this point of view?


Of course.BQ


----------



## shyanna von banana (Jun 4, 2009)

thai clinical depression is severe. at least that is wht i thought. so it should be accurate. Plus did u read that i provided an alternative view that drugs can for some ppl be wht they require to function.like my brother needed it to get through high school. Yes i also stated that i wondered how much good it did him.


----------



## shyanna von banana (Jun 4, 2009)

hey tht sounds good kathleen. I mean therapy could very well be the solution it makes sense . I definately is a viewpoint that is worth considering.


----------



## Mabel (Aug 4, 2009)

That is so good to know. I take it aleast once a week. Which I know does not sound like a lot. But was wondering how much I could take. I'm trying Align to see if that helps me at all. The first week has been pretty rough but hope things are going work out. If not back to the MIDThanks Mabel. so glad I found this site. It has already help with a lot of question.


----------



## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

I do understand the pharmacology of drugs really well (I do toxicology and it is the other side of the same coin).That being said I usually start with lifestyle changes or supplements (even though I don't trust a lot of companies to make them right) and move on to drugs when those do not work well enough.I'm not ever saying don't try other things, but that drugs may need to be on the table for a lot of things and excessive fear of them is just as bad as excessive use of them.People need to be as careful with supplements especially because we often end up taking things are very un-natural levels (way more than you would find in food) and that can be just as problematic, IMO. Just because a couple of hundred mgs of something as part of a well balanced diet is good doesn't mean that taking that one thing and taking a few thousand mgs of it isolated from all the things that normally come with it will be just as safe. A lot of supplements that seem to do one thing when part of the diet have the opposite effect when we take them out of context at high doses.


----------



## shyanna von banana (Jun 4, 2009)

BQwhat i meant by and up phase is that immoduims seem to really work and you only have to take a few and then after a while you have to take even more to get the same effect. YOu know what 20 yrs good for you thanks for telling me again and again. iM glad you found something that has been your soluiton. I wondered what the inside of your organs look like and if it has had any destruction and I wondered how MANY pills u really are taking. Did u read that article about that women who was taking a whole bottle of immodiums i wonder why she did that. It is possible that a few just didnt work for her anymore and she needed to take more and more.It has been proven that ppl who are not severely depressed and are put on anti-depressants causes them to become more depressed. And you know what maybe the ppl on here who have had anti-depressants work for them were severely depressed. what i meant by antidepressant not working for those who are depressed is that if thy are not severley depressed it probably wont help and that HAS been proven.Plus i havnt really heard you say tht moderate amounts of drugs and alternatives are the best solution for now. Most of what i heard from you is that this drug works and that drug works and this and that work and you know what it DOESN'T always work so maybe passing that on too would be helpful.


----------



## M&M (Jan 20, 2002)

shyanna von banana said:


> what i meant by and up phase is that immoduims seem to really work and you only have to take a few and then after a while you have to take even more to get the same effect.


Where did you get this information?


----------



## BQ (May 22, 2000)

> what i meant by and up phase is that immoduims seem to really work and you only have to take a few and then after a while you have to take even more to get the same effect.


That's not my experience.


> Where did you get this information?


Yeah.. I'd like to know that as well.ThanksBQ


----------



## Glenda (Aug 15, 2000)

Everyone is just beating the Hell out of a Dead Horse here.No one is going to agree , we all have our own beliefs and opinions , which is just fine.I did provide information how to obtain a Complete list of all the Cherokee Native American Remedys" that have been used for Hundreds of years , and still are to this date by Native Americans.Being that I live in Washington State , I am not near Oklahoma where our"Cherokee Nation" is at in Tahlequah.I have family that are also Tribal Memebers , like I am , anytime I want to "Try" one of these out , I can obtain them this way.It can just be a pain in the arse' having to wait for this to be aquired.I use "Willow Bark Syrup" all the time in the Spring when the pollen is heavy in the air. It works outstandingly for coughing / asthma.Sure I can provide dozens and dozens of pages of Cherokee remedys for almost all ailments you can think of.My family has Books of the stuff from my 4th. Great Grandmother.It would take me a long time to post this Extensive information on the board.And I have to wonder if it would be just kicked under the carpet , or considered Important and Beneficial.The Native American's did this , Long before most medications were ever invented.I would trust their knowledge pretty damn well.They lived in the times and knew what worked for that condition.They have things for Menopause , To slow the bleeding in child birth.They even have stuff for swollen feet.Start digging into Native American History , and you will unveil a world wind of Information.If anyone has any questions about what else can be used , for any condition , just post your request , and I'll dig thru Grandma's Book , and tell you what they used to relieve it.And again , I posted the Phone number and PO Box # for the Nation Itself , and more information can be obtained thru them.They might even know stuff that is being used in the 2000's that weren't available in 1800's like Grandma used.Good Luck at what ever you choose*


----------



## BQ (May 22, 2000)

> I wondered what the inside of your organs look like and if it has had any destruction and I wondered how MANY pills u really are taking.


Well apparently my organs are just fine. Just had bloodwork done yesterday and got the results today. But I *SO* appreciate your concern.Newsflash: Antidepressants aren't for everyone.Imodium isn't for everyone.Hypnotherapy isn't for everyone.Herbs aren't for everyone.Antispasmodics aren't for everyone.CBT isn't for everyone.Other medications aren't for eveyone.Restrictive diets & "distilled water" aren't for everyone.Are ya catching my drift here yet?Hello.. this is a *self help board*. PLEASE, as I have stated before (there's the disclaimer in case you find me repeating myself..), feel free to share what has worked for you. PLEASE feel free to lift other members UP... not down.PLEASE feel free to send others your best wishes.PLEASE feel free to give your empathy & understanding.Save your negative personal judgements of what has worked for others for your own ears and eyes.Thank you.BQ


----------



## Patman75 (Mar 9, 2008)

Lets agree to disagree. natural vs drug agrument will last unitl the end of time. We all know where we stand.


----------



## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

People abuse all sorts of medications for all sorts of reasons.Why one person does something unwise with anything I can't begin to speculate. From the medical literature I've only seen whole bottle Imodium use in people who were already an opiate addict and were using them as a substitute for other narcotics. There isn't a medication or supplement in the store that someone hasn't taken a whole bottle of in the hope that maybe more will be better (a side effect of our Western thinking).The vast majority of people using Imodium here over the last decade of interacting with people indicates that taking several bottles a week is a particularly unusual situation.If you worry about every one in a million event you need to stop taking all medication and eating all foods and resolve to be dead by the end of the month. There is nothing that can't be used to harm yourself with and everyone always starts with normal amounts. Even people who kill themselves by overdosing with water drink normal amounts most of their life so even water should probably be avoided at all costs just in case you go nuts on it some day which will make the whole hasten death thing happen a lot faster.Should people be aware of the dangers, OF COURSE. Should people assume every 1 in a million situation with every drug will always happen to them and therefore never take any risk of any kind. Only if they want to cope with the consequences of never treating anything which can be just a lethal as all the treatments everyone says will kill us all. There is a reason why back when the only option was natural remedies people on average died in middle age and a lot of people never survived their childhood.There is some debate on the effectiveness of antidepressants, but I don't see the data that all people with moderate depression always in every case must become much worse when they take them (even though suicide is a very rare side effect) or that doses of antidepressants that are way too low to actually effect mood will be extraordinarily harmful. Most of the time for IBS you are at the low end of dose as the gut nerves are out in the open rather than behind a barrier like the brain nerves are.Do antidepressants always work, NO. Not for depression and not for IBS. But to assume that in all cases every treatment must be much more damaging than the disease may close a lot of doors.Some people are more sensitive to side effects than others and may need to take more care but this whole everything is much more dangerous than doing nothing thing drives me a bit nuts. Every option has it's risks and its benefits. People do need to be aware of both the risks and the benefits and in general I think a wellness holistic model where we strive for finding the balance is a good thing and much better than any extreme of anything. Much of how we use supplements has the same exact pitfalls as how we use drugs. We don't look for the balance, we take one thing hoping that in excess it will do something more or better than when it is in its proper place and in amounts that occur in nature.The other concern is if you go into every situation assuming that you will be the worst case side effect that will ever happen may cause as much nocebo effect as all the hope in the world causes a placebo effect. Lots of people get lots of very noxious side effects when given "nothing" just because of the power of belief. That is why unreasonable fear of something tends to worry me. You can make yourself sick just like you can sometimes make yourself better. For each person finding that path to wellness and what works for them is important and I don't like it when it feels like people who take certain paths are attacked (even when the attack isn't intended for the person that finds some drug works for them). Advocating for what actually worked for you is fine. And I'd rather see what people actually take and their actual experience than a bunch of copy and pasted information. Sometimes what you can't read on the websites is what makes this place so valuable. Making anyone that takes a path you will not into some kind of bad person or sheeple or whatever negative judgment you have about them comes through in the writing and we are here to support each other, not force everyone to take our particular path.


----------



## Glenda (Aug 15, 2000)

Abit more usefull information:Constipation : Bladder Nut seeds > Ground into flour and mixed with fruit juice.Diabetis : Wild Carrot Blossums steeped in warm water.Also > Devil's Club Tea made from the root bark.Hemmoroids : White Oak > use inner bark , they used animal bladders to hold the fluid and they used a small hollow bird bone for inserting.Vomiting and Nausea : Beech Bark Tea.Stomach ache pain : Yellow Root , Horse Mint , Boneset Tea , Golden Seal.


----------



## shyanna von banana (Jun 4, 2009)

here we go found this another ibs user statement. I hope i do not affend them b\c it is not intended."The ammount you're taking should be fine, the only thing you may find with it is that your body will build up a tolerance to it and you'll need more to achieve the same effect, how ever this does not tend to happen quickly and so long as you're careful with the ammount you take then it should be fine."It is form the Imodium (Loperamide) question by sazzy.What she said is what I meant.


----------



## shyanna von banana (Jun 4, 2009)

BQ we get it already okay. I swear your like a broken record... no offense of course.


----------



## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Is all the useful information something you have personally used?If it is from webpages it would help to post the link to where the bits of information are from so people can look at all the information for themselves.


----------



## Glenda (Aug 15, 2000)

All my "Native" Family lived into their late 80's early 90's and they used these things on a daily basis.It must have been pretty beneficial , or they'd of died in their 20's and 30's like most of the Cowboys did back in the 1800's.Believe it or Not , Native Americans were Not diabetic back then , untill they started eating White Man's Food.Wow , could it be the additives going into the food ? You betta !Interesting point Kathleen > Why someone does something that is unwise is hard to speculate.My guess for the answer just might be , they are uneducated , and don't take the time to Learn about this stuff.Education is the vital key for existance in life.Don't just do it cause it Feels good. Take the time and investigate everything before you stick your foot in the door.(Or a pill in your mouth )Best to be fully informed before you step off that cliff.Again , anyone wanting more Cherokee information for conditions , post it here , and I'll dig it out of my thick book.


----------



## Glenda (Aug 15, 2000)

Yes , I have used many of these Cherokee remedys.I use to use them for menstrual cramps . I have used them for coughing / asthma , I have used them for back pain relief , sun burn , insect bite itching.Kathleen I Did provide the Investigation information.Here is is Again >Cherokee NationPO Box # 948Tahlequah , Oklahoma 74465Phone : 1-918-453-5000Any further questions , CALL THEM , and ask to speak to one of their members that can provide You with further information on these and how beneficial they are. And how obtainable they are.


----------



## BQ (May 22, 2000)

> BQ we get it already okay. I swear your like a broken record... no offense of course.


Great.. nice.ThanksBQ


----------



## Glenda (Aug 15, 2000)

Calm down , I am just trying to help , but I see I am beating a dead horse.


----------



## M&M (Jan 20, 2002)

Glenda,"Investigative information" is not enough to post. You have to post the source of your information. The real source. Not "call this number and you'll find the source". Post a link to the website where you got the info, or post the title of the book you are copying it out of, or post a link to the book on Amazon or something like that. This is especially true when it is something you have not personally tried. (Which apparently applies to the majority of remedies you posted.)That rule is in the Terms of Service you agreed to when you joined. Check your PMs.This thread is now closed.


----------

