# ugh! HORRID BOUT LAST NIGHT! Plus, some advice needed...



## WD40 (Jun 7, 1999)

I had the worst night last night! I thought I was going to yack it was so bad. I had three bouts, very painful and very voluminous. I was SOOOOO nauseated!!! I don't know what I did wrong, though, as I did not eat any no-no's. The only thing I did differently was take 4 vitamin/minerals supplements throughout the day instead of 2. Perhaps that was too much? Too much B vitamin or magnesium or something? The recommended dose is 6 a day!!! ack!! I still feel bad today and haven't eaten yet. Food right now is frightening. grrrrrrrrrrrrrrBy the way I am off of all of my meds and now I am starting to feel the nausea all the time again. Do you guys think I should go back on Elavil, since it did help with nausea???


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## ohnometo (Sep 20, 2001)

Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes







If that medicine helped you I would take it every day... There isnt anything worse then feeling sick...WD40 did they ever say what the nausea was coming from ? there is also some medications for nausea to help when it gets bad ..Zofran is one of them and so is phenagran..There will be times when we may need to take medications....Get your prescription filled today...Let me know what the Doctor said your nausea is coming from..


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

Yo Lube-Spray..."The only thing I did differently was take 4 vitamin/minerals supplements throughout the day instead of 2. Perhaps that was too much? Too much B vitamin or magnesium or something? The recommended dose is 6 a day!!! ack!! I still feel bad today and haven't eaten yet. Food right now is frightening. grrrrrrrrrrrrrr"You are barking up the right tree..especially the magnesium supplementation....this in and of itself (doubling up) could have elicited that response.ALSO double check the lables on all the supplements you are taking for what they use for the entereic coating, for binding, coloring, etc etc.ALSO these vitmains I hope are, in the vernacular, chemically compounded not fruit or veggie "dessicants" that some companies market (there are many vitmaon lines which are touted to be preferable due to the fact they are manufacgtured by a secret process taking whole foods and dessicating them to concentrate their specific vitamion and mineral contents).One has to be sure to avoid this kind of supplements as well...esp. if they are dessicated from a reactive food.....its like taking a concentrated antigen dose.Also, if you have been on Elavil and are weaning off Elavil, the nauseas you are experiencing returning can be a consequence...whether or not it will pass with time is not knonw until you go off and wait some time (week or two) to ensure your body has purges fully...and you have gone through the adaptive process of removing the drug from the body.The question with any med of this type is...is it better to be stable, and keep taking it, as long as using the medication has no inherent danger and you are not experiencing any desire to keep upping the dose....or do I want to be medication free enough to suffer through my bodily adjustment to the withdrawal of the medication I might experience.Now, if you went off the Elavil and had no troubel and later started ffeling nausea, it is time to right away start an intake log and assess everything going down the tube for at least five days and plot the symptoms...and to study the lables onm EVERYTHING as a person with lost oral tolerance has no expectation og giranteed regaining oral tolerance and it is not hard for something untolerated to sneak into the diet and begin to cause a symptom to return.ALSO one has to be careful to stay on a rotation diet permamnently once one has worked to get there....as the predisposition to lose tolerance means that anything overconsumed which is safe could become unsafe.I know...even I did this being carelesss with chicken.I am just putting some of the various possibilities out there for you to consider. But this is why we have dieticians who do this for a lving...they can help the patient sort it out when we have the patient specific data.MNL


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## mrysgrl (May 9, 2002)

You're not alone. I had a bad reaction and yes it was the vitamin supplements I was using. As post above noted, (and I the ignoramus) didn't know, they don't list all ingredients and (I don't know your reactive foods) but frequently supplements frequently contain undisclosed gluten and/or wheat, corn, etc. Some brands now have a label that specifically states their label discloses absolutely all ingredients. You may want to try one of those. Hope you feel better.


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## WD40 (Jun 7, 1999)

Today I am still a little woozy but doing better. I slept in until 10am and fasted for 18 hours to try to just get everything settled down a little bit. I have gone back to printing out a daily calender I put on the refrigerator to track everything for the month again, and to plan the next month's menus. Apparantly this is the only way I will stick to LEAP 100%. I am e-mailing the vitamin manufacturer to make sure there isn't any corn byproduct in their capsules. I hope not because these particular vitamins/minerals seem to give me much more energy than any other.I told "G" that she is going to have to help me out with the LEAP thing. She doesn't get in my way or anything, she just tends to allow me to become lazy...kind of an enabler, so to speak! she agreed that this is true and that she'll be more supportive and less tempting with what she puts into her own mouth. She is also insisting that I go back on Elavil at least half strength until after the stress tests and everything are done on my heart. I am basically starting over at phase 3 until I get myself back on track. The problem with this doggone LEAP thing is that it gets me feeling so good that I feel invincible where food is concerned and then start to stray. The symptoms aren't so bad, so I stray more, and more, until finally, this past week happened and I am back to square 1! I am so stupid!By the way, Mike, it was chicken that put me over the top, too - I am almost convinced of it! DOH!







Nothing like a few gnarly nights to get me back into gear. Please send vibes of discipline and will power my way. Apparantly I have a lot less than I thought I did!


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## WD40 (Jun 7, 1999)

Uh oh, perhaps I have found the culprit. I re-read the label on my bottle of vit/mins and guess what is in there? Grape Seed Extract! Grapes are in my yellow! Would the extract make me react the same way as eating grapes would? Mike? Jan?


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## Julia37 (May 9, 2001)

WD40,I'm sorry you had such a hard time.







I've had a few bad reactions to those natural vitamins also. There was a natural allergy medicine made from plants that worked pretty well for my allergies, but it was causing me some tummy pain. I think there were a couple of other vitamins I also tried that did the same thing.If finally got smart and followed Mike's advice of getting the ones that don't have any "natural" fillers. I've had real good luck with Nature Made if you'd like to try those. As far as I can tell there's no filler at all, just the pure vitamins.


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## ohnometo (Sep 20, 2001)

WD40I use to take alot of excedrine and it did not have sodium benzonate on the label as an ingredient...I just knew something wasnt right so I went on the internet and read the ingredients on excedrine migraine and the firt thing they listed under other ingredients was sodium benzonate..but never put it on the label


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

HI WASHERDRYER:Isn't it better to know that you have no corner on this market: ____________________________________". The problem with this doggone LEAP thing is that it gets me feeling so good that I feel invincible where food is concerned and then start to stray. The symptoms aren't so bad, so I stray more, and more, until finally, this past week happened and I am back to square 1! I am so stupid!" ____________________________________Thsi behavior is sadly not unique to this exclusive club of "food sensitivity sufferers"...sit in an AA meeting some time and you will here the same story over and over....or ina a group of people on ANY smoking-cesaation program (except mayb the Zyban Club).But RECOGNITION of how our minds work, and are driven by our attachments to foods and our learned behaviors, is essential for permanent success.Sometimes we do not come to this realization untile we experience it like this....THEN we "value" what we had so much more...and the long term success probability goes up.The bottom line is that we wish and hope for some miraculous change tp occur which will stop our immunocytes from reacting to the foods we like...and the longer we remain asymptomatic the more our mind tends to whisper to us that its OK to cheat a little....and the symptoms at first are often subclinical as we consume a subclinical dose. But soon enough it accumulates until BOOM right in the old gut, head, whatever, nd we cannot tell which thing it was as we have let this and that slide back in as we slid away from our plan.So you do the right thing. Go BACK to your last point of success...whatever phase you were on when you lost your symptoms, begin again from there, and as surely as the little buggers react, if you stop provoking them they will agian stop reacting.So let's be like the multi-divorced person who puts a positive spin on them...they are not failures they are opportunities to learn what NOT TO DO AGAIN!!!














But never fear The Force is all with you...we are out here...MNLPSIsn't it bizarre when we learn how the labelling does not have to be 100% inclusive? And all along we ALL believed they were watching out for us....







By the way, Mike, it was chicken that put me over the top, too - I am almost convinced of it! DOH!


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## ohnometo (Sep 20, 2001)

The comment below is so true ! That is why I have continued to go to meetigs for the last 15 years because I need to hear the same things over and over because I forget







and the thought oh one will be ok







Yeah right..Thank God I have not listened to the committe upstairs very long...I would have beem in deep troubleComment*******************Thsi behavior is sadly not unique to this exclusive club of "food sensitivity sufferers"...sit in an AA meeting some time and you will here the same story over and over


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## WD40 (Jun 7, 1999)

I did go back and am now on a very strict rotation. I sat down and wrote out 2 full weeks worth of menus for a three meals AND an afternoon snack, and went shopping for them. So far so good, and I feel pretty good again, although slightly constipated (not getting enough water, I think). Tonight was fish night so I got some red snapper and just made up a recipe off the top of my head. OMG it turned out SOOOOOOOOO goood!!!! MMmmmm yummmm! Even "G" told me if I want to make that again, please do! It's amazing how much better I feel in my body (I mean in parts other than my GI tract). I keep forgetting. Somehow, though, this last bout was awful enough that I am completely dedicated to the 3 day rotation. I guess all the "little" bites of this and that finally built up and my system couldn't handle it anymore. It just isn't worth it to cheat. Saturday was THAT hoorific for me! As a bonus I did not go back on the meds and now I don't feel like I need to so I will go med free for a few months and see what happens.Thanks for all the encouragement!Donna, do you go to AA? I had no idea! I am so grateful that I never could acquire a taste for booze; if I had it might have gotten me into a lot of trouble. These days the D it causes alone keeps me away!


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## Julia37 (May 9, 2001)

I've found that if I resist temptation for a few weeks (months, in case of chocolate), the taste for the food goes away. Mike's so right about learned behaviours. I got the comfort food habit from my mother and it was the first thing I reached for whenever I was hurt or down - and since I'm from an abusive family, that was pretty often! Every day in fact.I was so much in the chocolate habit I would reach for it whenever I saw it. Now years and years after I learned I'm allergic to the soy lecithin in it that thought is still in my mind, but I know I don't really want it. It's just an old habit. Twice I've gotten a craving so bad I bought a York peppermint patty. 4 no-no's - soy, egg, sugar, and dairy. But then I came to my senses before eating it and left it in a public place for someone to pick up (better than wasting it). the second time I bought some sugar-free starlight mints and ate one of those instead, and that helped a lot.







Years ago when I learned about healthy eating I stopped eating potato chips so often, and my taste for them went away almost right away. I was surprised - and then dairy, since my symptoms got so much better it was much easier to give up than I expected. A few months after I gave it up I tried some Parmesan and it didn't taste good at all! And the same thing happened with butter.So what I'm trying to say, WD, is if you can resist for just a few weeks 90% or more of your taste for these foods will go away. Also, could you share that delicious snapper recipe?


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## ohnometo (Sep 20, 2001)

Glad you feel better WD40..Yes, I do go to AA and NA. I never had a problem with drinking I couldnt stand the taste. Until this day I have never even been drunk







Really I was one not to drink but I had a horrible addiction to prescription medication along with some other items...The reason I go to AA meeting is because I can relate to everyone there...It all does the same thing whether we drink it, smoke it, swallow it..I have been going for 15 years 3 and 4 times a week...and it has given me a wonderful life back...In my mind with all the pain of IBS I thought if one is good 10 might be better







So for many years my addiction took me down alot of roads that I would have never went today.....but today I can thank God that I didnt end up dead somewhere...Glad you feel better


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

footnote to WD: ___________________________________"...although slightly constipated ..." ____________________________________This is sometimes just a natural consequence post-diarrheic attack...you flushed out the GI tract and in simple terms it takes some time to fill the pipes enough to stimulate them to react and evacuate...plus the person may have taken various forms of antidiarrheals as well as restricted their food intake for some time.If you get back on the safe diet, and as you say drink plenty of H20 (which also may be depleted as a result) and plenty of safe well-tolerated fiber this should take care of itself within a few days.This "cycle" is often clinically misunderstood in some patients and a natural cyclic consequence of intermittent diarrheic episodes gets tossed into a new category "cyclic C & D"...which in some cases my be "truly pathologic" but in others simply "consequential". The trick is telling the difference can be very difficult clinically...and even if you do does it make any difference in how you treat the patient [rhetorical question







] ______________________"I guess all the "little" bites of this and that finally built up" ______________________Absolutely correct, my friend. ______________________"As a bonus I did not go back on the meds and now I don't feel like I need to so I will go med free for a few months and see what happens." ______________________The ability to reduce medication need is indeed part of the bonus&#8230;sort of like a headache. If we find out that hitting ourselves on the head with a hammer is causing the headache we need the narcotics for, and so avoid the hammer, we don't require them. Sometimes people end up of all the meds&#8230;but it must not be misunderstood by the readers that any LEAP patient is told to stop taking their Rx meds&#8230;quite the opposite, they should stay on them until maximum dietary effect is achieved, then discuss cutting down with their physician. The only ones the pt. should change themselves are the ones prescribed PRN (use as needed)&#8230;don't need so much don't use so much. ____________________"Thanks for all the encouragement!" ____________________To paraphrase "Behind every successful LEAP clients stands their dietician and a flock of other LEAPERS, &#8230;nagging nagging nagging." ____________________JULIA!!







____________________"Twice I've gotten a craving so bad I bought a York peppermint patty" ____________________Don't feel like the Lone Ranger, Tonto. With my soy intolerance this is also relatively verboten. But since it is dose dependent (only moderate reaction) there have been occasional slip ups, hence the use of "relative". My relatives are forbidden to buy them.Like when I was up in Cleveland last month, doing training, I always put out snacks and stuff for the people coming over for the training sessions. Then they are always just OUT THERE when I wake up each day. This can at times be problematic if the meeting is not schedualed to start until the afternoon. One of the things I put out was a large bowl of Yorks. These were late sessions, sometimes running til 11 pm. The first night when everyone left the bowl of Yorks was still full.The next day upon arrival, the folks all noticed the York bowl was empty "Where did all the peppermint patties go Mike?""Martians." _______________________OHYESMETOO: _______________________"I never had a problem with drinking". _______________________Me either. I drank. I got drunk. I fell down and went to sleep. No problem.I am, though, considering setting up a step program called YPPA. Julia and I will write its Big Book together. MNL


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## WD40 (Jun 7, 1999)

Julia, chocolate is my killer, too, and for the same reason...the lecithin!!! I once stopped eating sugary foods for 6 months and after 3 full weeks the cravings finally went away. Too bad I didn't stick to it, huh? Well, after Saturday I really can't stand to look at the stuff right now so maybe I can get over that 3 week hurdle.Donna, I think it's great that you go to the meetings. I wonder if there's a group for people who can't seem to resist chocolate chip cookies???Mike, going off the elavil was somewhat accidental. My doctor took me off of it and put me on Procardia XL. That proved to be a very bad thing! So he told me to stop. I haven't touched either one since, and that was about 3 weeks ago now. Still getting the chest pains but since the last 4 or 5 days sticking to LEAP like my life depends on it the pains have lessened considerably. Except for today but I have slight PMS and that's another story altogether!







I prefer not to be on Rx's because the side effects really get to me. So, I'll stay off it all now since I don't feel any different on it anyway.oh, the fish recipe! I'll come back a little later, I just heard my sweet potatoes ding......!


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## ohnometo (Sep 20, 2001)

I love sweet potatoes with brown sugar and butter....







Mike,The YPPA meeting sounds interesting..Now tell us what it stands for







I just may need it !


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

"York Peppermint Patties Anonymous"


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

GACK!!!Sweet potatoes make me gag!!!







Every Thanksgiving when I was a kid Granny used to make these sweet potatoes with brown sugar and butter and then slathered in marshmallow topping...and no matter what I did she would put them on my plate and the rule was you eat everything on your plate!!! GACK!!!An entire childhood of turkey-anticipation DESTROYED by the Sweet Potato Sadist!!!!To this day just the odor a swet potato cooking even makes me flee in terror!!!I will send you all the ones MrsNL makes this Thanksgiving that she expects ME to eat (the only day of the year I wish I had a dog to hide under the table "here, boy, some more yummy yams for you!"......."Hey Mike yer dog is puking in the corner over there....ORANGE!!!")







MNL


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## WD40 (Jun 7, 1999)

Oh my goodness I needed a good laugh today!





















Thanks Mike, you are a jewel!!!!


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## Julia37 (May 9, 2001)

Mike! ROFLMAO!!!





















Hey, I didn't know you're also soy intolerant. It would be very interesting for us to go to a restaurant together!














WD,You can make chocolate chip cookies with unsweetened chocolate. I used to do this before I learned about my sugar intolerance. You just chop up some unsweetened chocolate squares instead of using chips. It's pretty good, the non-sweetness of the chocolate takes the edge off the sweetness of the cookies.I sometimes make muffins this way, with no sugar, and they're pretty good too. You have to use more rice milk when there's no sugar.


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## WD40 (Jun 7, 1999)

I love dark chocolate and bittersweet, but I've never tried the non-sugared stuff by itself. We used to make candies out of the unsweetened squares and always added a ton of sugar after it was melted down. MMMmmmmmmm...homemade peanut butter cups and almond joys........mmmmmmmmmmm***drool***


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

JuliaChild: ___________________________________"It would be very interesting for us to go to a restaurant together" ___________________________________Actually all they need for me is plenty of steamed rice and something thats straight pork or beef with carrots.....







....you know come to think of it you are correct...who the hell is going to make that for me outside an oriental restaurant?Do you know how hard it is when travelling spotting the highway exits where they snuck a chinese reataurant in among the McDonalds, Wendys, Burger Kings, Hardees, Waffle House, Huddle House, Mouse House, Road House, School House, Out House...[...they call it Nutbush...







Nutbush city limits....OOOPS...sorrry...just kind of popped in there with the allitaration and all..apologies to Tina







]hey, but for you it would be easy no? "Double bacon cheeseburger please...my coronary aretries don't deserve any better!!!"[...get a li'l Nutbush...omigod CANNOT STOP NOW!!!







]MNL


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## Julia37 (May 9, 2001)

...and hold the soy products in the bun please...No, I tend *not* to look for Chinese fast food. Most likely soy oil, soy sauce, and MSG!







You'll never let me live that bacon cheeseburger down







I take a carry-on bag stuffed with plain(oil-free) bagels and cookies I made myself, and I can stop at any of those places and get a hamburger, no cheese, ketchup, or mayo please. But plenty of bacon...mmmmm, yummy bacon burgers and hash browns cooked in clarified butter at the Fountain Square Diner in Indy...mmmmmmmmm


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

You'll never let me live that bacon cheeseburger down To da







grave, babaaayyyy!!!


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## Jan LEAP RD (May 19, 2002)

> quote:The only thing I did differently was take 4 vitamin/minerals supplements throughout the day instead of 2. Perhaps that was too much? Too much B vitamin or magnesium or something?


Hi WD40,Reviewing your history, I see some problems with molds but not yeast mix. With vitamins, many are also grown in a yeast base, and given a close relationship between mold fungus and yeast fungus, maybe it's the yeast of the supplements causing problems. (As another possibility added to all the other good suggestions.)Finally, for your 'rotation diet' an idea.Make GOOD use of your freezer and microwave. When you cook a nice meal, cook 2 or three times as much as you will eat. Immediately!! after cooking, dish into some type of plastic food storage container (Ziplock, tupperware, you get the idea). Combine all foods eaten, meat, starch, veggie, bread, roll, fruit, dessert as appropriate. Label the container DAY 1,2, or 3 or whatever. FREEZE a leftover container or two.Then, when that day comes up again, and you don't feel like cooking, take it out, zap it and enjoy.(Be sure to chill leftovers quickly, and freeze. Some people are very reactive to the bacteria, molds or histamines that can result from leftovers that have sat too long.--not to mention the food poisoning risk.)Other ideas: Make muffins/breads/flatbreads/soda breads etc. based on what is allowed on a particular 'day.' Place in bags labeled with the appropriate 'DAY.' And, on and on. . .


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## WD40 (Jun 7, 1999)

Jan, I stopped taking all supplements for now to try to get back on track. I've had a very difficult couple of weeks despite LEAP. You'll be getting my email shortly.


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## Jan LEAP RD (May 19, 2002)

WD40,And, then. . . what about endometriosis???(My old private practice clients used to call me Doctor Jan. . .)Check these links. (I know you have. . .)From :Lancet http://www.lancet.com/search/search.isa Endometriosis and Irritable bowel syndrome (If you can't find it here, let me know and I'll post it here.)Endometriosis Research Center http://endocenter.org/index.html


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

To be blunt the damn supplements and vitamins are a very frustrating problem for all of us who have worked with dietary therapy on food sensitivity patients the last few years. It can be very difficult to dtermine if a given formulatuion is or is not safe for a given patient due to the wide variation in ingredients and origins.Grrr...Dr. Pasula and a leading formualtor and manufacturer of vitamins worked together to develop a formlution of a multiple vitmaion and mineral supplement for LEAP patients that would be 100% antigen free for EVERYONE no matter WHAT you were reactive to.We have it on the books and can produc it anytime for LEAP patients. Trouble is we are not yet large enough to secure the "associated costs" of crnking up production (interpretation: it is more expensive tot start-up than we can afford yet)...and the user base will still be limioted mostly to LEAP patients as the general public is so unaware of the food and chemcials sensitivity problem. To eduate them sufficiently to effectively create buyers in the face of the massive advertising dollars expended by the existing manaufacturers is not realistic fora small company..yet...







Are you feeling my pain? beleive me I feel yours when it comes down to evaluating vitmain supplements. When that variable is in the equation and the patient symptoms are labile, it is best to set it aside until you can stabilize the patient on a whole foods diet.THEN challenge the more esoteric aspects of the patients diet. I will say that I am seeking tht funding to manufacture the first run of the LEAP 100% Antigen Free Vitmain/Mineral Supplement in 2003.







for the "institutional investors"!MNL


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## bobby5832708 (May 30, 2000)

In a previous life (pre-LEAP) I had taken various brands of vitamin and mineral supplements because I thought that since nothing stayed in me for very long I was probably deficient in some of the essential nutrients my body needed. I clearly remember some brands being more 'explosive' than others but it seemed that all of the supplements had some amount of 'purge' potential so I quit taking the vitamin pills on a regular basis. Now, since food stays in me and I am eating a fairly well balanced diet, I don't go near vitamin supplements for fear of upsetting my digestive system. Some memorable experiences with different brands: Centrum- a guaranteed 'blast' towards late morning and tasting the damn pill for hours after taking it.Amway- a friend talked me into buying a 2-pill-per-dose vitamin and mineral package. I only took one dose a day and I don't think food had any chance of staying in my system. After a week I was probably more malnourished than when I started. I gave him the rest of the pills for free.Generic store-brand Centrum clone- not quite as bad as the genuine Centrum but still could taste it for hours after taking it. One-a-Day plus Iron- bad nausea for several hours after taking it. Not too bad on the 'purge' scale.One-a-Day regular(little red pill)- The best vitamin supplement. Essentially no aftertaste and very little digestive disturbance. It probably didn't do anything either.Several years ago I was trying anything to reduce my IBS-D symptoms. The vitamin supplement thing was just something else to try to feel better. I think that the pills that have a billion times the RDA of various nutrients are overloading your system and are real powerful just for marketing reasons. Mike, if you get some 'reasonable' vitamin supplements on the market I would be your first customer. I try to eat properly but may still be lacking in certain vitamins and minerals, I just don't really know, so maybe a supplement would be good, eh?


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## mrysgrl (May 9, 2002)

There is a vitamin used for people with IBD (inflammatory bowel disease) that I find pretty good and they try to keep known allergens out. It is gluten free. Called Forvia from Inovera (And no I am not selling anything and have no affiliation). I am trying it and seems less problematic than others. If anyone knows of any others, maybe they can post too.


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

MRYSGIRLJust because my time is so short, not lazy as I appear, do you have a URL where I can look at it online?We are alwsys cruising for better safer supplements for our clientsThanksMNL


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## Julia37 (May 9, 2001)

I've had good luck with Nature's Way supplements. They don't have dyes or fillers and so far haven't caused me any problems. I take the multi and the B-50 supplements. I cut the B's in half because when I took a whole one with breakfast I was urinating fluorescent yellow every 20 minutes as the excess was flushed away - just a waste. The B vitamins made a big difference for me. When I read Dr. B's book, where there's a section on vitamin deficiencies that cause the same symptoms as food deficiencies, I was surprised to see I had 3 symptoms of vitamin B deficiency - and had had them all my life!







After I began taking them my PMS symptoms went away completely (has it been a month already?







) and my eyes stopped itching most of the time, and I had fewer nerve symptoms like spasms. That's what happens when you raise a kid on junk food and don't get a second opinion about her chronic allergies.


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

...then you might find this interesting.... _____________________________________Adv Pediatr 2002;49:299-316Pathophysiology of Intestinal Food Allergy.Shah U, Walker WA.Combined Program in Pediatric Gastroenterology and Nutrition, Children's Hospital and Massachusetts General Hospital, Boston, USA.The gastrointestinal tract plays an important role in the mucosal immune response. While acting as a conduit allowing the transfer of nutrients from the intestinal lumen to the systemic circulation, it also protects against invasion by microbes and other antigens by the induction of an immune response. A downregulation of these immune responses to nonharmful antigenic substances is termed oral tolerance. A breakdown or underdevelopment of oral tolerance may therefore lead to the development of food allergy. Adverse immunologic reactions to food may be a consequence of both IgE- and non-IgE-mediated mechanisms. Although genetic factors play a major role in the development of allergic disease, other factors involved in an immature mucosal immune response have been implicated. Non-IgE-mediated allergic responses tend to involve a T cell-mediated delayed hypersensitivity reaction, and released cytokines act as determinants of the immune response. The "hygiene hypothesis" proposes that a reduction in infections in early infancy predisposes to allergic responses. Early childhood infections promote the induction of a T-helper type 1 response that protects against the development of allergy, which is predominantly a T-helper type 2 response. The role of B cells and T cells in the development of food allergy is incompletely under- stood, but advances in the evaluation and characterization of food allergens has opened exciting new avenues in this study. ________________________MNL


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## Julia37 (May 9, 2001)

Thanks MikeDoes this mean children should stop being vaccinated so their immune systems will develop properly? I don't know about infections, but I often had asthma as a toddler, and my parents would take me to the hospital where I would get an adrenalin shot. Too bad that didn't help with the soy allergy.As far as I can tell I've had the same food sensitivities all my life, presumably developed when I was a baby.I think this theory is a little simplistic - if it was true than almost everone would have loss of oral tolerance, because infections and such are almost always prevented in babies in modern times.


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

Hi Julia.I don't think this is what the author means. It is hard to see when we just have the abstract. In fact I think he is suggesting something different, but the words we have and definitions are getting in the way as usual on the food-allergy-intolerance-sensitivity topics.I think it's not vaccinations and halting them that the authors are trying to promulgate...rather they suggest that the normal process of getting colds and influenza and bacterial infection as the human organism matures is a normal and necessary process which is part of developing normal adult immune function, specifically the t-cell related mechanisms. And the term "allergy" when referring to lost oral tolerance IMMEDIATELY causes confusion with you and the rest of us, from brostoff on down, who consider "allergy" to food to be reactions of the Type I variety (IgE).This again reflects the disadvantage of not having a standard nomenclature that everyone agrees to.In the context of Brostoff & Challacombe et al and their newest (and older) texts ona llergy and intolerance, the reactions associated with lost oral tolerance are not allergy...but other hypersensitivity reactions (ie: t-cell mediated is one).So indeed the workd allergy should be nabished from such discussions, though it is unlikely, so as to not muddy the waters for us....In this case I think that the message is that the early introduction of broad specturm antibiotic therapy for every sign of childhood infection with ANY pathogen which thus impedes or blunts the full immunocyte cascade of the type in question can impeded the proper development of the oral tolerance mechanism and in some people lead to partial loss of oral tolerance (development of some degree of food or chemical intolerance).I think by extension it may also be viewed as healthy to follow the old custos of allowing children to freely interract socially so as to maximize the range of viral pathogens they get exposed to and thus maximize adult immunity. Don't lock them up in the house because too many kids at day care have sniffles...let em go...so I think that he may actually be suggesting the opposite.But the way it is worded can indeed make it unclear what the message is.Oh well gotta run...slice-me-dice-me-day has arrived.







MNL


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## Jan LEAP RD (May 19, 2002)

And then there's the research that kids raised in TOO CLEAN a home end up with more allergies. Is it due to lack of pathogen exposure or too many cleaning chemicals? I think it's supposed to be a combination of both.I've always been happy to have been a VERY healthy kid. Just the usual chicken pox, measles, and occasional (rare) cold.Maybe I was protected by all the dust, chicken feathers and manure. . . walking barefoot in the barn, and feeding chickens, also barefoot! I'm sure there were TONS of pathogens we got exposed to. . .







HahaFormer Farmgirl. . .who STILL goes barefoot whenever possible. . .


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## Julia37 (May 9, 2001)

Jan, you're welcome to come here and walk around in the pigeon poo on the walkway outside my building - at least someone would be enjoying it...







Mike, I'll be thinking of you!


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## mrysgrl (May 9, 2002)

Hi Mike NL,Sorry I just saw your post, have been sick - bad reactions to I am not sure what yet.The web-site is www.forvia.com for Forvia The company name is Inovera Bioscience DevelopmentCarol


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

...yeah it stands to reason that an environment that is too sterile during the developmental stages of immunity could lead to an increased incidence of hypersesivity later. I suspect that the term "allergy" is being broadly applied, though, in those discussions and is used to encompass sensitivities other than Type Gel & Coombs (IgE) which I think are more lcosely linked to atopy than anything else. Many of the other mechanisms are more likely to be involved under these types of circuamstances. Hows that for for responding under the continued influence of pain medication?Not very good huh?MNL


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