# CBT & all in our minds



## loulou (Jan 18, 2001)

What I want to know is how the medical profession can put one throught CBT and still defend the fact that they don't believe IBS is all in our minds. It's cognitative behavioral therapy...the name itself implies the belief that it's all in our minds.


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

Not really Lou. It is more complicated than that.I am gonna stink at explaining this. I yield to Eric on this one for suree.However, keep in mind one thing while you are waiting for him to pop in here.Thoughts produce organic responses. Those responses in folks without IBS are considered within the norm; our organic responses may not be. But we can change our thoughts to counteract the irregular responses, hopefully balancing things out.But wait for Eric, he can explain this all much better than I.BQ


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Its well known now that IBS is a brain gut disorder. The brain influnces gut function and the gut function influneces the brain.Emotions can trigger attacks. This is very important to learn and understand!I explained some of this on this thread. I was explaining why a person with IBS can use these therapies very successfully for IBS. HT and CBT are the two most effective IBS treatments to date statistically of ALL IBS treatments, meds, foods, ect.. A lot of people seriously underestimate or are confused about the complex role of the brain in IBS. http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...ic;f=1;t=030825 If you need help understanding some of it let me know and another good thread to read all of the information and links, because its important to now all you can about IBS is this thread. http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...ic;f=1;t=031744 A big reason why these treatments work is down to neurochemistry regulation in the body.Hope this helps.


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

This will help some more.IBS is a functional disorder.What is a Functional Gastrointestinal Disorder? http://www.med.unc.edu/medicine/fgidc/bkgrnd.htm This is a conceptual model of IBS based on the evidence they have at this time. http://www.med.unc.edu/medicine/fgidc/concept.htm


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

This is very good on this, even though its talking about chronic functional abdominal pain, it shows the pathways involved in pain in IBS and in CFAP. http://www.med.unc.edu/medicine/fgidc/cfap.htm


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## loulou (Jan 18, 2001)

Thanks for the info. But it doesn't help me at all. I'm currently doing CBT and I believe I'm in this because everyone thinks I'm some nut case. The longer I go to CBT the more depressed I get about it. My symptoms don't change. They pretty much stay the same. The only difference now is while I still get the symptoms I also feel less and less like living since now not only do I have IBS I also belong in a psych ward which basically means I'm not the person I thought I was. I've just been lying to myself that I some level headed grounded person. Turns out I'm just crazy.


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

I dunno about nut case. I've done CBT and I'm pretty normal







I fhink.....







CBT is about changing thought patterns. As far as I have been able to determine everyone has thought patterns that work well for them and those that do not. Not just the "nut cases" that go to therapy, but everyone. The brain talks to the "second brain" or Enteric Nervous System that controls the gut. The thoughts up top can effect the signals that get sent to the brain below. Different patterns of though send different sets of signals. What gets sent can either increase, or decrease your symptoms. Are you doing general CBT or working with someone that specialized in IBS? Also have you talked to the therapist about what you are going through at the moment? Sometimes the chemistry isn't right (kinda like dating) and I think you need to explore this with them a bit. To figure out what causes you to think this way (rather than everyone is nuts and at least I have the guts to do something about it) and to figure out if this particular person is the best one for you to be working with, especially if they are the one convincing you that you are a complete and total nut case.K.


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## loulou (Jan 18, 2001)

It's a special study through UCLA. It's individualized meaning I'm not in a group which I'm glad about since I dislike group therapy horribly. My thought pattern is anyone who goes through CBT and is successful well that just means they were nuts. Therefore if CBT actually works for me it also means I'm nuts. It's going through your mind to fix what I consider to be a physical illness. If you can use your mind to fix it then it isn't physical. Also if you can use your mind to fix it then I shouldn't have had IBS this long or ever. But then maybe CBT won't fix my IBS since my symptoms begin when I'm sleeping. If I eat more fiber they start earlier. If I eat less fiber they start later. If I don't eat I feel better but sometimes I get bile or mucus and it's very difficult to keep my colon completely empty. Often my colon feels raw. The one thing I was I could find is something that would stop the symptoms while I am asleep.I'm going today and will talk to the therapist about this. I like the therapist but I've realized that in general I dislike therapy. Like I said before I thought I disliked group therapy (not enough about me maybe?) but I'm beginning to think I dislike it all. I just really want to quit. I also think a part of this could be that I'm not positive I've got IBS. I got this after giardia which may contribute to that problem. LouLou


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## AZMom (Oct 13, 1999)

Geez lou, you're a bit rough on yourself. You are not crazy. Many of us with IBS have created thought patterns that lead to IBS attacks. One way to change those thought patterns is with CBT. It is a good way to become aware of how your thoughts affect your body because you are more cognitively aware of them. You pay attention to your thoughts and can consiously change them. Hypnotherapy does the same thing, but though the subconscious. Both require practice and stick-to-itiveness. You are not nuts. Realize that there is a _possibility_ that your thoughts could affect your body, and allow yourself to learn CBT. Like many therapies, you need to open your mind to the possibility that it can work. Allow it to work. It doesn't mean you're crazy, just that you're not perfect.AZ


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## nmwinter (May 31, 2001)

Just because thoughts have an effect on the body doesn't mean you're crazy or that what you have isn't physical. Let's get away from IBS for a second. Bear with me since I'm just a layperson here. It's well known that thought patterns and reactions to stress can affect the heart and blood pressure. While someone like me who doesn't have problems with either can endure long term the suddent rpaid heart beat or elevation in blood pressure, someone else who has these problems are in more trouble. So in a way, I see iBS the same way. Lots of people get thoughts or stress reactions that cuase their stomch to clench or act up in some way but long term, it's not a big deal. But because there is something different about the way my digestive system works, I have problems in this area. So I'm with AZMom, give yourself a break. IBS does not mean crazy. I think you're might have to comes to grips with this before the therapy will work. I'm saying this from experience as someone who resisted the idea of hypno for a while but then was ready after learning a lot from people on this board.good luck and take carenancy


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

I think you are being too hard on yourself, or you have a very skewed definition of sanity. I agree with sanity does not mean perfection.Because the way you are describing it then NO ONE on the planet is sane because only the sane have perfectly forwarding, perfectly healthy, perfectly perfect happy happy joy joy in every way in every situation every moment of every day of their life thoughts no matter what life has dealt them. Everyone who ever has a negative, or less than forwarding thought about anything ever in their life is nuts.EVERYONE has thoughts that work well for them, are forwarding and create good things in life, EVERYONE has thoughts that do not work so well, are negative, hold them back, create problems and create not so good things in life.The goal is to be able to tell the difference between the two and have the coping skills and cognitive skills needed to get oneself out of the less than forwarding place to the more forwarding place. NO ONE has 100% perfect thoughts 100% of the time.Now I understand the view that "anyone who needs any therapy at any time at any point in their life for any reason is (pick which apply) weak, useless, broken, damaged, crazy, nuts, stupid"A lot of people are raised to believe that. Doesn't mean that it is true. Most psychologists, even the TOTALLY SANE ones go through a fairly extensive period of therapy to understand the process. No one is perfect. No one will ever be perfect in thought word or deed 100% of the time.MOST of us were never ever taught the coping or cognitive skills that are needed to handle every single thing that happens in our life.But then I am crazy because I went to therapy, so what do I know





















K.


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## loulou (Jan 18, 2001)

I gather from all this that some people with IBS have thought patterns which contributes to their IBS but not all people with IBS have thought patterns which contributes to their IBS. That is probably why even CBT and hypnotherapy doesn't work for everyone with IBS especially the hypnotherapy since this is done through your subconscious.LouLou


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Lou Lou, not all people are conciously aware of thoughts patterens in IBS and that is important to understand how IBS effects a person.


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

I don't know if we know fully why it works for some and not others.I hope when the results of the study I was in comes out there is something there that helps figure it out.For what it is worth, I did a lot of work using other thing before CBT and felt my IBS was completely and totally a physical thing and didn't think the CBT would do me any good. But heck, who doesn't need 3 months of therapy, and since it was a study I didn't have to pay for it. I had hoped to pull the taking a drug part of the study, but in the "everything happens for a reason" theory of life I did give the CBT my best shot.The results were miraculous, as far as I am concerned.But no treatment for any disease known to man works in 100% of the people 100% of the time so we can't expect anything to be that way for IBS.K.


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## trbell (Nov 1, 2000)

loulou, you said you were ging to talk to your therapist about this which is the appropriate thing to do. but you haven't said what he or she said. If this is through UCLA it may be a student doing it as part of a research project and the person might not have a lot of experience?I often find by the way that the first few sessions with a new patient is about the questions you brought up bcause here is just so much misunderstanding among he general public about what psychology and psychotherapy are all about. tom


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## trbell (Nov 1, 2000)

loulou, sorry about the last reply. i thought about it too late to edit it. I wasn't really directing it you. i just sometimes get upset about the general lack of respect i see creeping back into society for psychologists. i think basically what i was trying to say was that maybe you should ask your doctor of your mind in this casedoctors are trained to understand the body and psychologists are trained to understand the mind. If you want help with either you should consult the right doctor, I would think?tom


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## Guest (Feb 15, 2003)

Loulou,I personally feel that CBT is very beneficial for IBS because it helps us to change how we view the world and how we feel about ourselves and others and in turn affects our actions.... in positive ways. Even though at this very moment I am being targeted on another forum on this bb, CBT is partly responsible for why I am no longer taking it personally.There is no shame in engaging in CBT. Anyone who says otherwise.... is a fool.Love, Evie


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## loulou (Jan 18, 2001)

I didn't get to talk to the therapist since my car broke down that day. This week I had a doctor's appointment. It is a new doctor whom I like very much so far. The thing he said is that one has to have the thought first then the symptoms. I get the symptoms first. This alone makes CBT therapy difficult to execute on me. P. S. It is a student therapist.


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## trbell (Nov 1, 2000)

and most doctors aren't experts on the mind. If it's a student you could talk to his/her superviser?yom


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