# Chris George and Tom



## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

What does this mean specifically, from Dr Palssons site?."It has become clear that some clinicians who are using highly individualized treatment approaches which deviate significantly from the empirically tested methods for example, use insight-oriented hypnotherapy approach, which is generally neither necessary nor advisable with this condition sometimes achieve much less progress and lower success rate, and may even cause exacerbation of symptoms. "When then do the studyies on IBS using Whorewell's protocol and Palssons, the lkeading experts in the filed bar none, the same approach is used on groups and used on all variations of IBS, even in big studies? Why are the experts also saying this?"For this reason, it is advisable that clinicians adhere to the kind of methods which have been repeatedly demonstrated to have high success rate in empirical studies, such as Whorwell et al's 1984, 1987 gut-directed hypnotherapy or the Palsson et al's 1997, 2000 protocol."Would this also be generic, as they are using the same methods with everyone?They use " fully standardized seven-session treatment protocol " http://www.ibshypnosis.com/IBSprotocol.html Would you call that generic?


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## trbell (Nov 1, 2000)

As both Dr. Palsson and Mike have said this is a public forum so not the appropriate place for a debate as people are prone to misunderstand if they don't have the background and think that something must be true if an expert said so on the internet.With that disclaimer, let me say that I think some of the confusion this issue generates is due to two differnet ways that IBS (or 'gut') directed therapy or hypnotherapy is commonly understood.1. Most people understand this to mean that the treatment is specifically for IBS and not for IBS and/or anxiety, depression, personality problems, etc. This is most comfortable to most clients and probably true in most cases. I happen to believe that the diagnosis should be made by a qualified practitioner in conjunction with the client rather than having the client self-diagnose by reading about it on the internet, but that's just my professional bias. I think Palsson's reference to this and many others' views comes from the days many professionals did not know as much about IBS as they should be expected to now. This psychosocial aspect is covered pretty well by Blanchard in his book and Whorwell has a new article out on the subject which it would be good to read. Melissa's tapes, Mike's tapes, and Dr. Palsson's protocol all meet this understanding of IBS-focused. 2. The other area related to IBS-focused has to do with whether the treatment is dircted on changiing the way the bowel functions. This is what Whorwell is talking about and Melissa studied under Whorwell and she does talk about it in her intro even though I haven't gotten far enough to know if it does this. Dr. Palsson's protocol is designed to do this and his research seems to bear this out. I'm not sure whether or not Mike's tapes do this and I'm not sure who would give an answer to this publically as doctors don't criticize another doctor in front of patients. That's also why they won't debate publically.When I finish Melissa's tapes (6 weeks) I can give you a patient's perspective on the three methods and at this point would recommend all three to my patients based on voice quality, cost, etc.BadaLike jeff said thugh this forum is really intended to help people using CBT and hypno and not the place to argue merits of different approaches.


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## trbell (Nov 1, 2000)

I hate to rush you on this, eric, but I woul appreciate a response. My understanding is that you posted this question because you disagreed with some of the things Chris and I have said? I would like to get this disagreement resolved so we can move on. We can agree with my assesment of the tapes or not? If we disagree I'd like to know so we can discuss it and move on.Bada


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## trbell (Nov 1, 2000)

I think we are going to move on whether you finish what you started here or not eric. Feel free to dredge it up later if you want.Bada


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## AZMom (Oct 13, 1999)

Bada, you may want to ask Mike, but he probably uses a protocol based upon Whorwell's work. Like any therapist he would adapt it to his style and client. It is generally accepted that hypnotherapy works for IBS. What is still in discussion and testing is using tapes for IBS. There are major studies going on for this, and will try to determine which format works. In five years time the experts will come out with their opinion, if 51% of patients were successfully treated it will be a recommended therapy. In the meantime, Mike will be successfully treating hundreds of patients. Mike has been open and forthcoming in helping me in my hypnotherapy studies, offering to teach me all he can. When I asked Melissa for help, as a hypnotherapy student, she was going to charge me hundreds of dollars. Mike was free with his time and he continues to teach hypnotherapy to other therapist and hypnotherapists.You insist on comparing Mike's work with others. I don't know why, I don't care if you do, but you're confusing people. AZ


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## chrisgeorge (Feb 28, 2003)

AZMom,I can't see the problem in discussing what's out there in the way of therapies. As a consumer, knowing is half the battle. There's a national clothes shop in the U.S., whose slogan is - An educated consumer is the best consumer.Regarding your comment about Melissa wanting to charge you for instruction, I had the same response from Mike. In fact, in communication to me, Mike was thinking along the lines of franchising his protocol in North America. I don't see the difference.


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## Nikki (Jul 11, 2000)

Maybe he just doesn't like you


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## chrisgeorge (Feb 28, 2003)

Well Nikki,Seeing you're so presumptuous, you should know that I had been trying to get Mike to make a presentation to the NGH convention last week. Unfortunately, Mike became ill. So I'd choose your words and comments more carefully.I'll pass on some sage advice. Write your little snide comments and let them sit there for an hour or so before posting. Sometimes it saves you looking foolish and immane to everyone else.


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## Nikki (Jul 11, 2000)

If you had looked at my post carefully you would see that there was a small, but perfectly formed "Winking" smilie next to my comment. What has Mike being ill to do with me being presumptuous anyway and why do i need to choose my words?Now who is being presumptuous.


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## trbell (Nov 1, 2000)

I think this has to do with eric. We are trying to move on. he raised a question here. i tried to answer in a civil way. he has not responded.It's okay if he doesn't like me, but that doesn't have anything to do with the question h raised.Nikki, as a moderator you should have some concept of what civil behavior is?Bada


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## Nikki (Jul 11, 2000)

I don't believe my post was directed at you Tom. Read carefully.Stop bringing up the moderator issue. Im not a moderator in this forum.


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## JackieGian (Mar 23, 2002)

If you're trying to move on then why are you constantly bringing Eric back into this. You keep making comments like:


> quote:now that some of the edge seems to have gone here





> quote:Actually I've felt more like posting, knowing that more than one point of view was allowed.





> quote:whenever I disagreed with the moderator i was targeted and slandered.


and finally, not even 10 minutes ago:


> quote:Nikki, I'm glad you brought up the expert thing as that maybe eric's problem. I don't want to be an expert herebut if you really look at the times I've disagreed with or criticized eric it's been when I've felt he has writing as an expert or basing his opinion on a few abstracts he's read on the web.


If you want to move on, then for goodness sake MOVE ON!


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## trbell (Nov 1, 2000)

because eric is the one who brought this up and eric apparently is the one who can't move on.Bada


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## JackieGian (Mar 23, 2002)

Sorry, but Eric has not been here for a couple of days and YOU are still at it!


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## trbell (Nov 1, 2000)

Wrong. Look at the date and who posted it. Things were just settling down and eric came back and posted this and i have to think it was intentionally to stir things up since he isn't reponsponding. i had thought when he first posted it it was because he was interested in discussing it. but it's starting to look like it was a game to stir things up.Bada


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## JackieGian (Mar 23, 2002)

Yea, o.k., if you refuse to see your part in this, there is nothing more to say.


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## trbell (Nov 1, 2000)

i have sen and acknowledged my part in this sevaeral times as have chris and others who've disagreed with eric. he has never acknowledged any part or apologized for the names he's called people. es, i do have a part and I acknowledge it.Bada


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