# tests for enterocele



## Mary2001

Hello. I would like to know if anyone knows what sort of test would you need to get to find out if you have a condition called an enterocele, and also what can be done to help it get better, or is it best left alone. Has anyone reading the board had an enterocele and is the symptoms similar to ibs. I have been diagnosed with ibs c but when I had the scope tests 2 years ago, the consultant said that the prep medicine was not altogheter effective and my biopsies showed microscopic inflammation which they say was not indicative of anything, and said it was ibs. but I am beginning to wonder if it might be something else like an enterocele as my main problem is difficulty daily getting stools out (not C and not D) just difficulty and always feel there's more to come, which causes a vaginal bulge, but the bulge doesn't stay out, just a feeling of pressure until my bowel is totally empty. Usually there may be more to come, but sometimes the feeling is trapped gas. Its always there and the only time I feel relief is when my bowel is completely empty i.e. after going about 3 to 4 times daily, but with difficulty so I'm not sure if that is ibs, or something misplaced up there. I can't get a hospital appointment as I'm on a waiting list again which is 26 weeks long, and I would so much like to know if ibs causes symptoms like trapped gas pressure and difficulty emptying, not because its hard but because when I push its like the wrong muscles is pushing and making it hard to have a bowel movement, so if anyone knows what tests to have to detect an enterocele, I would be grateful to know. Thanks for reading, and sorry to keep on about this, but I am not finiding solutions to my problem and am desperate now. Thanks to all for reading. Mary.


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## AIRPLANE

I feel very similar to you in many ways. I have difficult evacuation even though my stools are very seldom hard. In fact I often border on diarrhea which I did have for many years. I have been diagnosed with a rectocele and have been told after pelvic exam that I do not have an enterocele although it sounds like this is not always obvious. I also have recently been reading about a condition called a sigmoidocele which sounds like it can only be seen on a defecography. I suspect I could have this as a few years ago after my hysterectomy I had a sigmoidoscopy which reproduced the crampy pelvic pain that feels like horrible menstrual cramps and makes me feel like I'm bordering on diarrhea as well as a feeling of trapped gas sometimes. It occurred at a certain point during the sigmoidoscopy which felt like the scope was going down a V-shape deep into the groin which caused vaginal pain.I mentioned this pain to the doctor when it occurred but there was no follow up. I am scheduled for anal manometry this week but really hope I will be also be able to have a defecography test soon even though it sounds like a somewhat humiliating test.From what I've been reading, it sounds like things such as enterocele and sigmoidocele will only show up on a test such as this, not your usual colonoscopy. Sometimes if the bowel is not empty the contents obstruct, or kind of hold up, the prolapse and can only be seen with straining after you are emptied out. So I would say we probably both should have defecography. The trick is getting someone to schedule it.


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## Mary2001

AIRPLANE said:


> I feel very similar to you in many ways. I have difficult evacuation even though my stools are very seldom hard. In fact I often border on diarrhea which I did have for many years. I have been diagnosed with a rectocele and have been told after pelvic exam that I do not have an enterocele although it sounds like this is not always obvious. I also have recently been reading about a condition called a sigmoidocele which sounds like it can only be seen on a defecography. I suspect I could have this as a few years ago after my hysterectomy I had a sigmoidoscopy which reproduced the crampy pelvic pain that feels like horrible menstrual cramps and makes me feel like I'm bordering on diarrhea as well as a feeling of trapped gas sometimes. It occurred at a certain point during the sigmoidoscopy which felt like the scope was going down a V-shape deep into the groin which caused vaginal pain.I mentioned this pain to the doctor when it occurred but there was no follow up. I am scheduled for anal manometry this week but really hope I will be also be able to have a defecography test soon even though it sounds like a somewhat humiliating test.From what I've been reading, it sounds like things such as enterocele and sigmoidocele will only show up on a test such as this, not your usual colonoscopy. Sometimes if the bowel is not empty the contents obstruct, or kind of hold up, the prolapse and can only be seen with straining after you are emptied out. So I would say we probably both should have defecography. The trick is getting someone to schedule it.


 Thanks airplane for your reply, and for reading my post. I have never heard of a sigmoidocele. I think tests for rectocele and enterocele and sigmoidocele should be done before a diagnosis of ibs is done in case they are missed out. I do hope your tests go alright for you and keep us posted how you get on. You said you were somewhat the same as me, so I hope you get some help as this is a dreadful problem. Thanks again for reply. Mary.


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## AIRPLANE

Yes, I agree, these things should be thoroughly checked for if the symptoms seem to warrant it. Unfortunately, the extent of pelvic floor issues and their impact on people's lives are just beginning to be understood. I have been dealing with this for what will be 23 years this August and have been bounced back and forth from gynecologists and GI docs with nobody really ever willing to work with me for any length of time. I had these symptoms before finally giving in to a hysterectomy which ultimately only further weakened my pelvic floor support system.I went to the urogynecology department at a nationally renowned clinic last week and once again am being bounced to the GI department. I had originally asked to see a colon-rectal surgeon but once I mentioned the rectocele they told me I had to go to urogynecology. I drove 160 miles round-trip for nothing. You'd think they could have scheduled these tests as their web-site mentions advanced testing for pelvic floor problems but this was not true in my case. If the GI department, who I go to this week, does not cooperate I will look into filing a complaint.That's one of the problems when you have overlapping GI and gynecology symptoms-it is too easy to hand you off to the other department, back and forth with nothing ever getting accomplished.Hope you have a good doctor. Good luck.


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## Mary2001

AIRPLANE said:


> Yes, I agree, these things should be thoroughly checked for if the symptoms seem to warrant it. Unfortunately, the extent of pelvic floor issues and their impact on people's lives are just beginning to be understood. I have been dealing with this for what will be 23 years this August and have been bounced back and forth from gynecologists and GI docs with nobody really ever willing to work with me for any length of time. I had these symptoms before finally giving in to a hysterectomy which ultimately only further weakened my pelvic floor support system.I went to the urogynecology department at a nationally renowned clinic last week and once again am being bounced to the GI department. I had originally asked to see a colon-rectal surgeon but once I mentioned the rectocele they told me I had to go to urogynecology. I drove 160 miles round-trip for nothing. You'd think they could have scheduled these tests as their web-site mentions advanced testing for pelvic floor problems but this was not true in my case. If the GI department, who I go to this week, does not cooperate I will look into filing a complaint.That's one of the problems when you have overlapping GI and gynecology symptoms-it is too easy to hand you off to the other department, back and forth with nothing ever getting accomplished.Hope you have a good doctor. Good luck.


 Thanks Airplane for your reply and I don't know how you managed to live for 23yrs with those problems. I have mine for 3 yrs. and find it very hard to live with it. I agree with you that its very hard to get referred to the RIGHT department at the hospital, and that is why I wonder if ther's anything that is successful in helping with a rectocele or enterocele. I know there is surgery, but I am not sure if its permanently successful, or if the condition can recur again, and its hard to know whether to have surgery or not if that would be the case. I would like to find something that would help naturally with the evacuation difficulty, but its very difficult to get anything to fix it, as I've tried so many things, so perhaps I am going the wrong route. I thought help for illnesses in USA would be more advanced than here in UK, but it looks like its the same as here. I do not know why you would be referred to urogyncology for a rectocele as I thought too that it was a co rectal surgeon to fix that, and they should have written the correct department on your appointment. I feel exactly like you that I am just getting moved about to the wrong departments as its complicated that bowel problems seem to be causing problems with perhaps some other organs, and nobody is too bothered in the medical department to find out exactly what is wrong. I have already went to a gyncacologist to see what was the cause of the vaginal bulge, got examined and told I did not have a rectocele, but would need to see a co rectal surgeon, but nobody did anything for me, and that was last year. I went back to my GP recently to ask if there could be something prolapsed at the back (since its not at the front the problem is thats causing the bulge) so she referred me to hospital to see if this is what is wrong. I got told there is a 26 waiting list to be seen, so here I am, don't know if I have ibs, or something prolapsed. Someone wrote on the ibs boards a few days ago, about ground flax seed meal, so I may try that to see if it helps and sometimes eating smaller frequent meals helps, but its so hard to find a solution. Let me know how you get on with your tests, and I hope you get help as you have had such a long long time of problems. Thanks for reading my post. Mary.


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## AIRPLANE

Yes, there is surgery for this type of thing but if you are not careful the prolapse can recur. It is not unusual to have to repeat the surgery.Mine happened as a result of heavy lifting on the job and possibly was contributed to by a history of constipation. In the past, these problems were only believed to happen to women with difficult deliveries of babies or to elderly women but they can happen to anyone at any age whether they have had children or not. Possibly the more active lifestyles women have now creates more opportunity for them, such as work or exercise. Men can get some of these problems as well.I have read that often if you have one type of prolapse it is not unusual to have others so if you were to have surgury all of these problems should be identified and corrected at the same time. The ones I am aware of are cystocele(bladder), rectocele(rectum), enterocele(small bowel) and sigmoidocele (colon), vaginal vault prolapse, uterus. As you can see these problems can involve urinary,reproductive, sexual and digestive areas and it seems as though too many doctors want to 'pass the buck' and decide it's not their department and either let someone else deal with it or tell you there is nothing wrong.Unfortunately these areas share some of the same nerves and ligaments so it is not easy to break each area off into its own neat little compartment but that seems to be what medicine wants to do.If the prolapse is not too bad there are physical therapists that have strengthening exercises and other things to help but these trained therapists are few and far between. I myself have tried doing Kegels ever since this started but it has not been helpful in my case.I also tried a pessary and hormone cream to no avail.After surgery you have to be careful to avoid heavy lifting and strenuous exercise and constipation as whatever caused the problem in the first place can cause it to happen again. Each time you have surgury done in these areas the ligaments become further weakened so it is kind of a catch-22 but you also have to consider the degree of discomfort the problems are causing.If alternatives haven't worked for your symptoms then this is the last resort. They also frown on surgury if you are planning to have children and prefer you wait although some of these problems can cause miscarriages so there is no real answer regarding that aspect either.In my case, I was only 25 and due to the negative impact on my life I was never able to do any of the things you need to do to have children in the first place-not even any dating so I never married.Hopefully the prevalence and negative impact of these problems will be become better understood by the medical community and better diagnosis and treatment will be found but it seems to be too slow in coming, at least for me.The waiting gets very old and you have my sympathy especially about the having to wait 20+ weeks for an appointment that you don't even know will be productive in helping to identify the problem.The right doctor who truly understands you and is willing to do whatever it takes to help is hard to find. Trust me-I've been to many during my 23 years and am still trying. Hang in there even though it gets hard to be patient!


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## Mary2001

AIRPLANE said:


> Yes, there is surgery for this type of thing but if you are not careful the prolapse can recur. It is not unusual to have to repeat the surgery.Mine happened as a result of heavy lifting on the job and possibly was contributed to by a history of constipation. In the past, these problems were only believed to happen to women with difficult deliveries of babies or to elderly women but they can happen to anyone at any age whether they have had children or not. Possibly the more active lifestyles women have now creates more opportunity for them, such as work or exercise. Men can get some of these problems as well.I have read that often if you have one type of prolapse it is not unusual to have others so if you were to have surgury all of these problems should be identified and corrected at the same time. The ones I am aware of are cystocele(bladder), rectocele(rectum), enterocele(small bowel) and sigmoidocele (colon), vaginal vault prolapse, uterus. As you can see these problems can involve urinary,reproductive, sexual and digestive areas and it seems as though too many doctors want to 'pass the buck' and decide it's not their department and either let someone else deal with it or tell you there is nothing wrong.Unfortunately these areas share some of the same nerves and ligaments so it is not easy to break each area off into its own neat little compartment but that seems to be what medicine wants to do.If the prolapse is not too bad there are physical therapists that have strengthening exercises and other things to help but these trained therapists are few and far between. I myself have tried doing Kegels ever since this started but it has not been helpful in my case.I also tried a pessary and hormone cream to no avail.After surgery you have to be careful to avoid heavy lifting and strenuous exercise and constipation as whatever caused the problem in the first place can cause it to happen again. Each time you have surgury done in these areas the ligaments become further weakened so it is kind of a catch-22 but you also have to consider the degree of discomfort the problems are causing.If alternatives haven't worked for your symptoms then this is the last resort. They also frown on surgury if you are planning to have children and prefer you wait although some of these problems can cause miscarriages so there is no real answer regarding that aspect either.In my case, I was only 25 and due to the negative impact on my life I was never able to do any of the things you need to do to have children in the first place-not even any dating so I never married.Hopefully the prevalence and negative impact of these problems will be become better understood by the medical community and better diagnosis and treatment will be found but it seems to be too slow in coming, at least for me.The waiting gets very old and you have my sympathy especially about the having to wait 20+ weeks for an appointment that you don't even know will be productive in helping to identify the problem.The right doctor who truly understands you and is willing to do whatever it takes to help is hard to find. Trust me-I've been to many during my 23 years and am still trying. Hang in there even though it gets hard to be patient!


 Thanks for your reply. I would have thought about kegel excercises too that they might help to strengthen the pelvic floor muscles, or even pessaries or hormone creams, as I have been reading up about these thing, but not tried them. so I do hope you get something done to help you. Yes it is very hard to get a doctor who would take the time out to try and get to the root of these sort of problems, and I do not know if any specialists exist that fix things like that. You said it was caused by heavy lifting, well as I said earlier, I am not sure if I could have something like an enterocele that has not been detected, but maybe I don't. What I'm thinking might have caused something is that I fell down the stairs about 15yrs ago and hurt my coccxy bone at the bottom of my back which was sore for a few weeks after, but I recovered from that and had no treatment as there is nothing to fix that. Then about 4yrs ago I slipped again on the stairs as I had moved to a different house and had washed the stairs, so had my slippers on and down I went again. I am a bit clumsy by times on stairs. I didnt hurt myself as bad as the previous time but I did feel sore enough afterwards, so that's what makes me think maybe it caused something like a enterocele to happen as my problems started after that, although I didn't make any connection to the stair falls at the time. I have 3 children and am through the menopause so maybe that has contributed to it too. I hope you keep me posted as to how you get on with your tests and good luck. Hope they will help you this timeto feel much better. Thanks for reading and replying. Mary


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## AIRPLANE

Hi Mary-Just letting you know what has happened so far with tests and appointments.Had an anal manometry yesterday which checked for sensation and pressure in the rectum. I did not do too well. As they filled a balloon with air I was to tell them when I felt an undeniable urge to evacuate. As they filled the balloon I could feel brief sensations for 2-4 seconds but then the sensation would quickly disappear the same way it often does at home. They filled the balloon as far as it would go and then they said that that was as far as they could go. They then had me try to expel a balloon which I was unable to do.Today I had an appointment with a gastroenterologist and think maybe I've finally found someone who thinks along the same wavelength as I have been all of these years. When I told him about all of the sigmoidoscopies, colonoscopies, bariums, etc. that I have had over the years he replied 'So you've never been looked at from the outside?' to which I said 'Yes, that's correct'. I told him about my concern regarding possible prolapse issues besides the ones I already know about , the rectocele and the cystocele. I told him the reason I had come to this clinic was to hopefully have some different tests done that might answer my questions in regard to how things were positioned down in the pelvic area. Without hesitation he scheduled me for a defecography test (also called a proctogram) which I could have had done as soon as this upcoming Tuesday but unfortunately with the 4th of July holiday I could not be spared from my job because there are too many people on vacation that week. So it is now scheduled a week from Monday which is 11 days away which is not too bad. I practically went into shock when he offered me the test with no pleading on my part!He also said there may be a problem with tight, non-relaxing muscles and said it was possible that physical therapy might be of some help if this were the case. This therapy is not widely available and there is a long waiting list at this clinic but he said he was going to put me on the list right away which would probably mean I'd be looking at October should we decide to pursue this route. I would have to go to therapy 5 days a week for 2 weeks which could be a bit of a pain since the clinic is 80 miles away but I guess I would try to work it out somehow if need be. He said the therapy has had a 70% success rate. Even though I live near a large metropolitan area my internet search for a similar therapy closer to home came up empty.At any rate, I feel that at last I will get the answers I have been looking for. I have always felt that it is difficult for doctors to "guess" at how I should try to correct my issues when we really have no clue as to what is or isn't happening regarding the prolapse issues. This doctor said that after hysterectomy sometimes things will fill in the empty area, although I pretty much felt these same things before except the hysterectomy probably only made them worse. I also told him about how in the past I was constantly passed back and forth from gynecolgy to gastroenterology.At any rate, at the moment I'm feeling a bit more hopeful than I have for awhile!Airplane


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## dumerilgirl

Enterocele
I was told the same as you! I can not poop with out suppositorys or tap water ennmas. It has takin my life away, unless you call laying on the sofa with cable tv a life. Hardly eat because as you know if you can not poop ur not hungry.
Was told IBS c, that it was depression, that I needed a shrink, that I needed to learn to deal with it. I finely got the dr to re order the defagram and had the test today and the raidooligy doctor showed me what was wrong, Enterocele! Clear as day. 
I told doctor after doctor, my poop never gets into my rectum, I have pain and pressure in pelvic area, I can only get 1 to 2 pushes untel it closes off completely (warring to much info comming, that if I push my finger up my butt way up I can feel stool trapped behind tissue and if I push up it will pop out, that I can oly pass gas upside down with butt in air, that it pushs on ovaries, lost of mucus in stool, and my anal emg came back with a high resting pressure, oh and colonosopy (air) makes it better for a day or 2. 
No one would hear me because they could not see it and I am thinking why have you not stuck a camra up my butt and looked as it was clear to me it was stuck and only like 6 to 8 inc inside. But after a prayer there it was, clear as day on the tv screen, stuck, really stuck, and of chorse with a rectalcele, as Enterocele usuly are! All I can say is after 7 years of issues, 5 years of asking for help and going through being told I need a shrink not a GI doctor, and tests someone without a issue would never go through, as I told my doctor if all I had to do was stick my finger up my ass I would not be hear! God anwcered my prayers today!! Just to know that It will never be implied that I am crazy over this issue agian makes me feel like running around shouting they found the problem!
So thanks God!


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