# why does it come back?



## XxJustMexX (Dec 11, 2008)

I've been reading about antibiotics and SIBO and it appears to be a temporary fix. Why if the bacteria gets killed... why does it come back? Can you keep it from coming back if you OD on pre and probiotics right after the antibiotics?


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

I used this analogy before and it seemed to help make sense.SIBO is totally normal bacteria living in other parts of your body (colon or mouth) living where they should not be (the small intestine).You will always every day of your life have bacteria in your mouth and your colon. They get to be too plentiful in the small intestine because something allows them to grow.So it is like your yard.Antibiotics mow down the bacteria in the small intestine like mowing your grass.But unless you do something to the yard to make it so nothing every grows again the grass grows back and you have to mow it again.The antibiotics don't cure the reason the bacteria are going in the small intestine just like mowing your grass doesn't change the fact that grass will grow on that plot of ground.So this isn't like an infection where a bacteria that normally isn't in your body can be wiped out and then it is gone, which is what we are used to with antibiotics. They never kill every bacteria in your body. The hope is they kill off the pathogen more than they kill off you or your normal bacteria. Some of your normal bacteria get killed off as well, which is why they can use them for SIBO, but you have too many bacteria in the colon to kill them all, and you would be immediately colonized by new bacteria from the environment just like a baby is even if you could actually kill everything in there.Some people do find probiotics can help, if nothing else no matter where they live they won't produce gas from carbs.Sometimes they use a low dose of something that speeds up transit through the small intestine to try to keep it cleared out.


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## XxJustMexX (Dec 11, 2008)

what helps speed things up?


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## distressed (Jan 7, 2009)

a prescription drug called domperidone


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Low dose Erythromycin is commonly used. You have to take a lot of it to really kill off any bacteria, but the increasing motility is why it commonly causes diarrhea all by itself.


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## Flowby Jonas (Aug 14, 2006)

I had the good fortune to see my G/I doc yesterday for the first time. HIs name is Cristian Vallejos. He basically told me there is no cure for SIBO. He mentioned Xifaxan and I thought well ok. I am not too keen to be taking any kind of antibiotics after the debacle with cipro and flaygl. HOwever I have been using accupuncture these days with herbs and 12 days no issues. Though the infected pooh smell is slowly going away I have not felt this well in quite awhile. So as I discussed with my G/I doc I want to stick this out and see where it leads. Doctor Wang my accupucutist explained that she cannot kill off the bugs but, what she can do is to strenghthen my immune systym to help myself combat the overgrowth. Even my stools are better. The other thing is all food and water has to be well cooked. Eggs and veggies as well as a little bit of meat. No raw food. The results are so far ok. I still get a bit of bloating but I can live with it for now.I am under the impression that what ever the issue is why they come back is because for some reason the conditions are good for the bacteria and they don't want to vacate. So as long as I provide them with a comfortable home they will stay. All we have to do now is understand the imbalance and it can be fixed. In Chinese medicine the Dan tien is the Chi center and for me it is out of balance. I prcaticed tai Chi for several years only to find out I was being lead down a wrong path. My teacher Jin Taiyang taught me for 6 months after I left my first school and showed me the errors of my ways. Even after not playing Taiji for 10+ years I can still build chi. What is strange to me is with all the taiji I did do my Dan Tien is where the pain generally is. I must go back to practicing taichi breathing. Maybe with taiji and some chi building I can help accelerate the return to some normalcy.Chris


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

You might want to check out some medical Qi Gong that is designed to help unblock any blockages. Adding chi helps, but if it can't flow adding more chi to a blockage may not do as much good.I study with Lisa O'Shea and the Qi Gong For Health DVD http://www.qigongrochester.com/products.html has her Rising Lotus set as well as some others that can be really good for undoing the blockages.


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## IanRamsay (Nov 23, 2008)

hi allIf you dont take a 2 - 3 month course of fairly strong probiotics WITHOUT FOS at the end of your course of pharmaceutical treatment the balance of pathogenic Gram negative bacteria will again take a hold over the Gram positive bacteria and the problems will start again. the action of the probiotics will go along way to helping teh body self regulate teh bacterial levels in the gut.Metoclopramide is also a good but very strong prokinetic. sadly it has some pretty hurrendous side effects. cheersIan


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## frantic1980 (Aug 21, 2016)

There are a few things in this thread that I would disagree with. "SIBO is totally normal bacteria living in other parts of your body (colon or mouth) living where they should not be (the small intestine)."If this is true then:Why does it usually start out with food poisoning (i.e. bad bacteria E.Coli / Samonelia)?Why can a healthy person eat Yoghurt or take probiotic supplements containing billions of bacteria every day of their lives without even a risk of developing SIBO? Do you ever hear anything about too much yoghurt/probiotics are bad? No...The truth is that the overgrowing bacteria is the bad bacteria from your food poisoning that has colonized your gut. These bacteria are pretty much identical to all other bacteria except they have a nasty side effect of producing toxins when they feed. These toxins are an irritant to your gut and cause inflamation which causes diarrhea.Unfortunately it only takes 1 Bacterium to multiply and produce millions of bacteria, so unless you erradicate every single bacterium that caused your food poisoning in the first place they will recolonize and the symptoms will come back.I am not sure about the motility theory - I read this in Dr. Pimentel's book also - but I had no difference with low-dose erythromycin; my diarrhea still come back after a week even taking 75mg erythromycin every night; I don't really get this theory to be honest - I mean surely with chronic diarrhea the problem is my motility is a bit TOO good isn't it?? Or is the motility thing about IBS-D??This time I am going to try natural antibiotics such as garlic or grapefruit seed extract when I finish my of course antibiotics. I hope that this will keep the bad bacteria at bay. I will report back.


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## IanRamsay (Nov 23, 2008)

> There are a few things in this thread that I would disagree with. "SIBO is totally normal bacteria living in other parts of your body (colon or mouth) living where they should not be (the small intestine)."If this is true then:Why does it usually start out with food poisoning (i.e. bad bacteria E.Coli / Samonelia)?Why can a healthy person eat Yoghurt or take probiotic supplements containing billions of bacteria every day of their lives without even a risk of developing SIBO? Do you ever hear anything about too much yoghurt/probiotics are bad? No...The truth is that the overgrowing bacteria is the bad bacteria from your food poisoning that has colonized your gut. These bacteria are pretty much identical to all other bacteria except they have a nasty side effect of producing toxins when they feed. These toxins are an irritant to your gut and cause inflamation which causes diarrhea.Unfortunately it only takes 1 Bacterium to multiply and produce millions of bacteria, so unless you erradicate every single bacterium that caused your food poisoning in the first place they will recolonize and the symptoms will come back.I am not sure about the motility theory - I read this in Dr. Pimentel's book also - but I had no difference with low-dose erythromycin; my diarrhea still come back after a week even taking 75mg erythromycin every night; I don't really get this theory to be honest - I mean surely with chronic diarrhea the problem is my motility is a bit TOO good isn't it?? Or is the motility thing about IBS-D??This time I am going to try natural antibiotics such as garlic or grapefruit seed extract when I finish my of course antibiotics. I hope that this will keep the bad bacteria at bay. I will report back.


hiThis is because SIBO is negative bacterial overgrowth, not positive bacterial overgrowth. you cannot have too many positive bacteria, and positive bacteria will not make you ill. it is impossible to od on probiotics. it can start with food poisoning because the bacteria are not totally killed off and lay low for X amount of time before establishing a foot hold and slowly taking over.most of teh bacteria that causes food poisoning is already present in teh bowel, so they are "normal". if those bacteria travel back in to teh small intestine by malfunction of the ilieocecial valve or afor any other reason they are then in teh wrong place, but continue to grow.Taking a motility agent will only work while you are taking the agent,. when you stop, the dysmotility will return.this is simply because the motility agent only addresses the symptoms and not the problem.And Lastly, bad bacteria are in no way the same as every other type of bacteria. there is absolutely nothing that makes them the same in any way. gram negative bacteria tend to be pathogenic in origin. although it can take only 1 bacteria in some rare and obscure cases to multiply, usually it take a large number of bacteria of the same strain to multiply enough to cause problems. and this has to be helped along by the lack of presence of positive bacteria to fight teh invasion. Also, if you just eat yogurt every day, teh numbers of bacteria tha tyou will be ingesting wont actually do anything to teh numbers that are already in your gut to cause any noticable difference. most consumer ytogurts on sale that contain pro biotic bacteria dont contain more than a million bacteria at point of manufacture, by the time that you eat it that number will be halved at least. you need to take 5 - 10 billion a day to see any sort of difference3 over a course of weeks.any more questions?i could go on and on and on.Ian


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## frantic1980 (Aug 21, 2016)

Please do go on...


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## freakzilla154l (Apr 30, 2009)

Are probiotics with FOS good or bad? And why?I thought FOS was good to take? I know it's in Primal Defense, which I have taken before!


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## IanRamsay (Nov 23, 2008)

HiGo back through my posts for a fulkl explanation.cheersIan


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## veniceboy (Jan 19, 2015)

Hi, frantic2980, I read somewhere you are creating a test for SIBO and for checking which type of bacteria is affecting us and which probiotic should be used. Which is the point reached by your research?

thanks a lot


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