# Please Help with ordering Vivonex!



## grumblytummy (Mar 10, 2009)

I was recently diagnosed with SIBO. I'm finishing up a round of antibiotics but it doesn't seem to be working. I'm working on my Vivonex back-up plan if this doesn't work. I'm having trouble finding out information about Vivnoex Plus. How much would I take everyday- just one packet each for breakfast, lunch & dinner? Does it matter how much I weigh? I'm only 102 LBS. so should I use less than one packet per meal? Also, where did you order it? I found it on Amazon.com for $330.50 for 36 pack and a 6-pk at Walgreens for $48.74 for a total of a 14-day supply. Is that a good deal? Someone here mentioned "Cedars Sinai" pharmacy in L.A. but I couldn't find any info.How do you flavor it? I heard there were flavor packets but couldn't find them anywhere - even on the Vivonex website. I'm surprised it's so hard to find information on how to use it.







I would appreciate any help!!!!


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Go to any of the weight control websites with a calorie calculator (http://www.practicalweightloss.com/nutrition/caloriecalculators.html is one) and put in your info and once you know how many calories you need a day you can then look at the nutrition info and know how many packets you need per day. Once you know that I'd try to space them out fairly evenly if you need more than 3 per day (so then you could do one at each regular meal time).I don't know if they discontinued the flavor packets or what? A few home medical supply companies seemed to have them listed but a few didn't have a price for them. You might try the phone number on the Nestle contact us site. They'd probably know.


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## Moises (May 20, 2000)

Pharmacy information:San Vicente PharmacyHours: Monday - Friday, 9 a.m. to 5:30 p.m.; closed Saturdays, Sundays and holidaysMark Goodson Building444 S. San Vicente Blvd., Room 104Los Angeles, CA 90048Phone: (310) 423-9550Regarding flavoring, the "official" Vivonex flavor packets, before they were discontinued, were mostly aspartame. You can buy aspartame at any supermarket in the US. Just check the ingredients, to make sure that there are no forbidden substances added to the aspartame. There are a number of companies that also sell food flavorings that you could add to the aspartame. There are hundreds of flavorings: licorice, walnut, vanilla, etc. But I found that they didn't make that big a difference.A lot of people view aspartame as a poison. You might want to test yourself by trying some aspartame first, before you do the Vivonex Plus. Kathleen M gave you great advice regarding how many packets you need a day. When I bought my Vivonex Plus from San Vicente Pharmacy, I had to buy it by the case. At the time, shipping was "free" anywhere in the Continental US.


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## grumblytummy (Mar 10, 2009)

Thank you soooo much Kathleen and Moises! Well I checked my calorie needs (and found out that 1 packet is only 300 calories) so I'm thinking I need about 5 per day. It's even more expensive than I thought but I'm desperate. If I don't try it I will always wonder "what if..". Thank you for the Pharmacy info Moises! I will have to contact them. I wonder if I can flavor it with something like Kool-aide or crystal lite. I am against aspartame (sometimes if I have too much I get forgetful and get eye pains) but I just heard how horrible the stuff is when it's not flavored. That scares me since I have a very sensitive gag-reflex.


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## Moises (May 20, 2000)

grumbly,I can understand your reluctance to have aspartame. In that case, the most sensible sweetener would be pure glucose. If I remember correctly, glucose doesn't always taste that sweet. The drugstores in the US usually have glucose tablets for diabetics. You could crush them and use them as sweetener. I wouldn't go overboard, though. There's a whole calculation of osmolality or osmolarity Vivonex Plus, which glucose affects, so you don't want to alter that too much.I have no background in biochemistry, so I can't really explain it. I believe that it has to do with the number of molecules per unit volume. Since glucose is a very simple sugar, it can have a large number of molecules in a given volume. If the osmolality is excessive, I think it would draw excessive fluid into the lumen, perhaps provoking diarrhea. By the way, I found some old bottles of unsweetened flavorings. I purchased them from http://www.suttonsbayspices.com/Flavorings_and_Oils.htmlLastly, I did the Vivonex Plus regimen two times. Pimentel claims that it has a higher success rate than antibiotics. But if you review the accounts of people on this forum, there were very few who were helped. I was one of those who were not helped.The Elemental Diet is the basis of the Elaine Gottschall Specific Carbohydrate Diet. That also did not work for me. But I will always be happy that I tried it. One unintended consequence of my trying it was that I learned that my gut is a lot happier when I eat a lot of meat. Prior to that I had been having less than one meal of meat per month.


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## karoe (Sep 22, 1999)

Don't use Vivonex! I did a two week elemental diet using Absorb Plus. (and homemade broths) It was a pleasure. It is Jini Patel Thompson's product-- delicious and you add your own oil.I think it's at www.holistichealthshoppe.com


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## grumblytummy (Mar 10, 2009)

Moises, I probably will try glucose though I'm afraid it will affect me since I can't seem to tolerate any type of sugars. Thanks for the link. Did you find any flavors that you liked and worked well with the Vivonex? I also tried the Specific Carbohydrate diet and found it didn't work for me. The only diet that helps is very low carb t but I always feel hungry and sick on those diets. It's too bad that Vivonex didn't help many people here. I'm not too optimistic that it will help me either but I don't know what else to try. I just finished the antibiotics and they have not helped.Thank you Karoe for the link. I checked it out but the fructose in the product makes me a little nervous. Perhaps it may be something I will try in the future.


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## grumblytummy (Mar 10, 2009)

Moises, I'm curious how many packets did you take per day & per meal when you were on the diet? Did you just mix one or two with a cup of water? Thanks!


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## grumblytummy (Mar 10, 2009)

Boo - the San vincente Pharmacy only sells to Cedar Sinai patients now.


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## Moises (May 20, 2000)

<<Boo - the San vincente Pharmacy only sells to Cedar Sinai patients now. >>That stinks!I did 6 packets/day, or 1800 calories. That's fewer calories than I normally eat, but I eat very low carb normally. I spent a few weeks building up my carbs before I did the Vivonex Plus regimen. The first time I did Vivonex, I bought from Walgreens, since I didn't know about San Vicente. As far as flavorings, it didn't make a big difference to me. But, like you, I was real nervous at first and thought I would need them. Get whatever flavor appeals to you. If I tell you that walnut is better than raspberry, you'll probably tell me that vanilla was better than both. _De gustibus non est disputandum_. (Google it, for a translation.)What are your symptoms? There might be less drastic and less costly regimens you could try before hitting the Vivonex. Also, what country do you live in? That affects what substances are over-the-counter.


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## grumblytummy (Mar 10, 2009)

Hi Moises, My symptoms are gas (lots and lots) and diarrhea (mixed with C). I just can't seem to tolerate those deliteful tasty things we call carbs (dreaming of cake and brownies right now







). I live in the U.S. Have you come across something else that may help? I guess I want to try the Vivonex now because I will be trying another round of antibiotics and I want to follow that up with the Vivonex right away so I can make sure I maximize my effort. However, if the Vivonex doesn't work I would like a "plan B" in place. Perhaps the products that Karoe recommended.Since the Vivonex didn't help you, have you found something that has helped and have you been able to manage your symptoms well?


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## Moises (May 20, 2000)

grumbly,I am not close to cured. But I am a lot better off than I was before I started experimenting.Number one for me, as for you, is low-carb. I used to feel deprived. Now, I am almost grateful that I started low-carbing a few decades ago when everyone told me that fat was evil. I am now convinced that low-carbing did my heart good as well as my gut.Recently, I learned that despite what's written in the mainstream press, I do better with minimal vegetable consumption. And I completely avoid anything raw (salad, fruit, vegetables). Something I've been experimenting with the last couple of months is "predigesting" my meat by overcooking it and then mashing it up as much as I can before I eat it. This is easily done with any kind of slow-cooking methods.Vivonex Plus didn't work for me and I did not try the Absorb Plus. I read about it and decided I did not want to go on another high-carb regimen. Recently, I bought a blood glucose meter. I can now see exactly how high my blood sugar goes when I eat carbs. It's not good. Whenever blood glucose exceeds 140 mg/dl, bodily damage is occurring. I am sure that I was going way over 140 mg/dl with Vivonex Plus and that I would go as high with Absorb Plus.


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## grumblytummy (Mar 10, 2009)

I remember the "fat is evil" days. The wisdom of the day was margarine instead of butter (margarine is VERY bad for you) and fake eggs instead of healthy real eggs. I just think how healthy the Eskimos were when their diet consisted of almost all fat – they had practically zero heart disease! Anyways, I hope the well cooked meat works out for you!


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Certain fats are not healthy in high amounts, and even the early research said that fats like olive oil or what you find in blubber from fish eating mammals are all good fats.Too bad that got translated to dietary cholesterol is bad or all fat is bad. It wasn't what the research ever showed, but that is how it got translated to the populace.


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## Moises (May 20, 2000)

grumbly,I forgot to mention that before I knew about San Vicente, I bought my Vivonex Plus online at Walgreens.


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