# Listen to How it is



## JMH91 (Apr 16, 2014)

Problem of odor is made of 2 aspects:

1. Mental- this is worry about comments and behaviors of people around you when those comments and behaviors are not really about you or any odor from you

2. Physical- genuine problem of odor is a symptom of many many (1000s) of possible causes.

I am very sure that problem of odor is for everyone here mixture of mental and physical, and mental is much sadder problem to live with, because they have not real problem. This is the great tragedy. For some people who say "Do not insult me, I suffer from odor for 10 years it is not in my head", they may be right, others who say this may be almost 100% mental. No-one here understands how reality is not the same for any 2 different people. If you have experience with mental illnesses, maybe your family or someone else you know, you may be aware that the mind is one of the most powerful forces in health and disease. No surpize that olfactory reference syndrome is so close in nature to paranoid schizophrenia. I knew one person with schizophrenia. He believed that his family had been replaced by government robots and many people were conspiring together to kill him. This was his reality. Took many years of therapy and pills to bring him closer back to the realities of other people in his life.

So firstly, my advice is to go to a series of doctors and ask them if you have odor problem. Doctors (almost all doctors) want to help and will not lie. It is not a conspiracy against you. This thoughts are part of the illness.

If all the doctors tell you that there is no odor problem, this is good, because it means your problem is mostly mental. It is a nice new reality for you. It is a matter of going to a therapist or psychiatrist and slowly working through things, probably from childhood when you didn't fit in which made all your social anxiety which your subconsious then manifested into odor problem as a mental safety to not have to worry about making friends, getting in a relationship, getting promoted, or making money etc etc and all the things the TV and consumer brainwashes us to do every day. You might say "I live in misery, no way would I choose this". The mind is poweful, and if deep down you are anxious about living life, then it easily makes an excuse for the conscious mind to clutch hold of like a lost child clutches onto a stuffed toy. One thing is to be wary of the psychiatric medications that commonly cause dry mouth. Dry mouth goes hand in hand with bad breath. You do not want bad breath, or even a bad taste with no odor, when you are trying to mentally recover from a problem like this. Read up on "Olfactory reference syndrome". This is the closest thing. Even it is best to say, maybe I have 5% physical odor problem, and 95% mental anxiety making it far far worse in my head compared to what it is really.

If some of the doctors agree there is a problem, this is bad. Problem of odor that has been present for many years is likely to stay as long as it wants. If the cause of the odor is not obvious for a doctor to find, then you are stuck with it. Many people think doctors are gods and know everything. This is far from the truth. Generally, doctors have 5% knowledge, and 95% arrogance/ego when it comes to understanding disease and human body. For problem like odor, they have much less knowledge than normal symptoms. Why? Because odor problems are not studied like other problems. They are not realized as major problems because most people will many years lasting odor problems just give up eventually (either kill themselves, or give up on doctors). There is no book that doctors can read which is called "The many many 1000s of causes of odor problems and how to recognize them". This book doesn't exist. You rely on the doctors 5% knowledge. But as I said, for odor problems it is much less than 5%. Most people who are here know more about odor problems than average doctor.

Also, do not listen to people who say "My odor went away when I went on blah blah fungus detox and blah blah diet of blah blah 998USD". These people were trying anything constantly. The odor happened to go away during one of these things they tried. It had nothing to do with some rubbish snake oil that is sold on the internet. Through history, snake oil has reliably been good for only one thing: making someone rich off other peoples' misery. Because of the internet, they don't even have to travel from town to town. They just make a new company name if things get legally difficult for them. Even if, 1% chance, the rubbish they did to themselves was the actual reason that the odor problem went away, as I said before, odor problem is symptom of 1000s of different conditions. There is almost no chance it will help you. Reading snake oils every night on the internet, is not living either. Your mind is in a cage, thinking that the cure for odor problem is just in the next bottle of bacteria 988USD. Until you realize it doesn't work and you wasted more money.

I have to be real, If doctors can't find odor problem easily, then you need to think odor is here to stay. This is like letting the mind out of the cage which thinks that it needs to be cured. This means to either kill yourself or find some way to continue living, because you may have odor for the rest of your life. Why? Because we live in an imperfect world, but you can either say "I am a part of this world" or "no, I cannot be a part of this world". That is what it comes down to.

Me? Not sure I want to die. I have gone through the motions a few times (pills), but I know enough that I knew I was not to kill myself. I was v sick though. Throwing up for days,.. and probably I will have liver damage which will appear from it in later life. But I needed to face this. Then things became easier. It took me several years to go mentally from (A) internet every night to search curezone. Emotional rollercoaster every time it doesn't work and wasting money... eventually mahy years barely leaving my room or speaking to anyone for weeks at a time ... to (B ) I don't want to die, and I need to work for money even though I will probably get bullied in work. With my money I will eventually buy a place away from other houses so at least I get some break from this hostile world. Maybe I could get a few dogs, and go for walks with them. It is the small things, and you need to find reasons to keep going.


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## horizonzero (Nov 17, 2013)

Both play hand in hand - I was at stage B went and got a job, did personal training went back to uni paid 100s for Phsyco help and tried to do one better for myself ... Now i'm right smack bang in the Middle of A after experiencing people talking about me and laughing in work a supervisor asking did i shit myself , university workers holding their noses + a whole host of other shit people here experience ... this was when my confidence was at an all time high after boosting self esteem ... It's a nightmare being stuck knowing it's a physical problem and being brushed over by medical professionals. Also ODS , having wet and warm anus 24/7 and internal intussusception are very real things but so is candida. Do my symptoms get worse with anxiety ... yes , would I be anxious if there was no symptoms in the first place ... no.


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## JMH91 (Apr 16, 2014)

You sound like anxious person even before these problems of odor. How much of your odor problem believe and reality is real? Don't know. What you do know is that you say, doctors brushed over odor problem. Did they say 1. "there is no problem" or did they say 2. "there is problem but cannot find cause". If answer is 1. repeatedly, you need to be seriously consider that there is no real problem. Olfactory reference syndrome. If only 1 doctor in 10 says there is problem, you need to consider that there is problem only 10% of time, or perhaps constant problem which is 10% intensity, with added 90% intensity made by your own mind. This is like 90% olfactory reference syndrome. I think, if a disease is caused 90% by one thing, that thing is a good place to start treatment.

Also, intussusception comes from anxiety in many cases. Stressful lives, complicated lives. People straining in morning, rushing to class or work. Late for work, don't like job. Anxious. Life stresses. They don't relax properly in morning for toilet, and instead strain. Straining long enough over time stretches nerves to pelvic floor +sphincters. This causes weakness of muscles because they have less nerves telling them to squeeze. This causes more effort of straining. Straining also causes weakening inside mucous wall of rectum. Mucous wall may separate eventually, cause mucosal prolapse or internal intussusception. Damaging circle. Straining => nerve damage and separation of mucosa => more straining needed => more damage to nerves and mucosa => etc. But usually it has started in anxiety and stress.

Intussusception, if you have a investigations to confirm, is very good. This is cause of odor problem doctors has found. You may have no odor eventually. Worse for people with no cause ever found. Treatment of intussusception, may need surgery like STARR to start. Then need to change habits to stop it coming back. Depends also if nerves have been damaged when intussusception was present. Avoid future straining (e.g. squatting not sitting on toilet, bulk-forming laxative) but make sure of complete evacuation each morning (give time to sit, even hour or more, even use water enema), strengthen sphincters/pelvic floor with biofeedback or TENS. Same as with everybody, if you get to point when there is no leaking of liquid or mucus from your anus (i.e. you walking around for 1 hour then wipe anus and it is totally dry with no smell on paper), then chances are the problem is in your head now. Like post traumatic stress disorder from when you had real odor problem. Mind is damaged. Other chance is that odor is not from anus and is coming from elsewhere on your body. This is bad, probably doctors will never find cause of that either unless it is very easy to find problem.

You talk of anorectal candidiasis, diagnosed by a Doctor? You talk of i=systemic candidiasis (in this case, I wish you not to die and I am impressed you talk from your hospital bed). Or you talk of "candida" internet snake oil websites? "Candida" taking money from the vulnerable in the anonymous environment of the internet. Some of these alternative medicine industry companies have been fined A LOT for their involvement in candida scams. But, even anorectal candidiasis, there is no smell. Candida is a yeast, making ethanol (alcohol). This is why yeasts are using in brewing. Ethanol does not really smell, especially at the amount which is produced by microscopic yeasts unless on a largfe scale than is not possible in a human digestive system. But, Candida cannot make a messy smell anyway. It is all bacteria that make that smell. Candida scams is made up to make money by the complimentary and alternative medicine industry. Some companies have been sued about making such lies about candida conditions which do not exist. Do not fall into their trap to steal your money. Real Candidiasis always shows signs which can be found easily by doctor. Candida is harmless infection unless it gets into the blood, in which rare cases the people are in emergency hospital bed.

Learning about olfactory reference syndrome is path to healing for most here. Google it, you will find, e.g. www.currentpsychiatry.com/fileadmin/cp_archive/pdf/0603/0603CP_Article3.pdf


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## Maria Slan (Jul 16, 2013)

I was just think maybe I let you do what you want but then you seem crossing over the line. Thus maybe need to control you a little bit.

1. Scientists re not perfect. All doctors based on scientists' results, and they re just applying those researches. So if you ask scientists then they will tell you how accuracy their method. For example, the stool test, they take patients' stool and investigate under microscope, to see whether any parasite here. But what if the samples re not including parasite eggs? Since you could see that a big sample but they only check 1 small location. And some species do not place their eggs in stool.

So current scientists test for parasite and yeast like this: I predict you have this kind of parasite/yeast and then I test it for you, if you dont have then you dont have the sickness, and this point s absolutely wrong. I am personally a person work in this field. When we did the wrong test, it could not be negative, it should be concluded that we did not found the positive evidence, and they always say that the tests re only 50% right.

I also have experienced a lot of errors and problems when I were doing the experiments in the lab. Thus someone who could know about it, feel that you should stop believing in your doctors.

Doctors do what they do, we just want to cure our sickness, please be realistic. What s your purpose btw? You want to make ppls believe you? Then you still have the sickness. Then they believe you for what?

Many of us had been to doctors. They dismissed us, they do useless things. And doctors do more than just scams, they made the wrong diagnoses so many times. and what is "some kinds of sickness" which they gave them a name but say let's see "we dont have a methods to cure it, we don't know what s the mechanism also." Ah. SO they know what it is, they just don't know why and how it happened or how to cure it. But they know what it is, it has a name. A name such that important?'

2. You have no idea what you have said. You re not majority in microbiology or science. Do you know that yeast and bacteria tend to live together? And when you re having infections (that what I called it) there would be blood, mucus, smelly things which draw more and more parasites, bacteria and yeasts into that wound. If you ever want to see it with your eyes then I suggest you do this experiment, you asked someone you know who s having pin-worm infection to sit in a basin with warm salt water when they re feeling the itchiness, and you drop some blood into the basin. Within 10 minutes, the red blood immediately turn to white. look at it carefully and you will see what re sticking around the blood and made it look white. Parasites just in love with human blood, and they do.

In conclusion, do what you want. who actually care? You re having problems with your mind. In my country then you will go direct to some special places for these kind of sickness. but you re still here, making thread, registering new nicknames and stating that ppls re having delusions. well, you could do it, but the fact s, the smell still here and you even don't accept it. If you don't accept your problems then who will?

I hope you have a good day in the end. :v


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## luckyhope (Jul 21, 2012)

What other names has this person had? I hope you don't think he's me or the other guy that wrote about ors. He obviously doesn't speak english as a first language. That's how you know the difference. I've never started a thread saying that everyone is having a delusion. Actually I think quite the opposite. I think most of the people on here have a serious problem. They don't sound like delusions because people react. They actually say that they smell. So how could that be a delusion. I don't think this guy is right. Many doctors say it's all in your head when it's not. You should go by other peoples reactions to you. That's the only way you know if it's a delusion or not. If people don't react it's a delusion. If they do by saying what's that smell or making faces when you walk by, stand in line, or sit next to them then they do. If you always get people rubbing their nose, coughing, etc... then you smell. If you only get little reactions like one person coughed or looked at you then you don't.

It can be hard for the person going through the delusion to know it's not real because they think everything they experience is because they smell. When it is most likely not. But the people that really smell know it. They get real evidence that they smell. They get people telling them it smells. Talking about them. Covering their nose. Commenting about a smell. Lots of coughs sneezes clearing throats. People will tell you the truth. Doctors sometimes tell you the truth but not always.


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## Maria Slan (Jul 16, 2013)

Seem like many ppls re creating new nicknames, talking, supporting the same problem these days. Different countries or not is just selections and your ways of writing could be changed especially if you re native speaker. It quite easy.

I did not mentioned you directly but who did the things behind the curtain will want to comment immediately. If it s not you and why you re bothering?

For the smell, I did not see reactions only. I smell it myself.

Ppls in Asian also quite different from Westerners. They do not react if it s at low level, but at high level they will tell you directly. Yes, and I have been told so many times that I smell bad. Many of my friends ready to confirm with my family members and doctors if I need, and one of them just know me for 3 months in my internship.

Why ppls here dont want to make arguments about delusions here because they have known that it s real, and too tired from the sickness to make debates. It does not mean you can do whatever you want. We do not need good googling ppls, doing science s googling and thinking at the same time. Your fancy words sound fancy to someone who dont know the basic, but not someone who is in the field.


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## luckyhope (Jul 21, 2012)

I'll let the person that started the thread comment on who he is but I know for one it's not me. I thought you thought it was me because we had a debate in the other thread. And that thread is sort of similar to this one. It's not easy for me to talk like I don't know the language well. I talk the way I talk and thats the only way I know how to speak. I wanted to stay out of this thread because it seemed to be talking about what the other one was talking about. So what's the point in bringing it up again.

Like I said before I don't agree with what this guy says. I know doctors lie to people with body odor issues all the time. Some don't but many do. And you all hear it's in your head all the time so you don't need to hear it from the people on the board where you go to talk about your problems. You know it's not all in your head. And from what you said I know it's not all in your head. But other people aren't sure if it's all in their head or not so they make up threads like this one. The person who made this thread was probably just trying to figure it out for himself/herself.


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## desprate (Nov 18, 2011)

Hi there..

i have a question?i'm sure i smell but when i ask my family members my friends and some strangers they say no u don't smell at all u smell normal..and even some of grocery store cashier and health food store sales person swear upon GOD that i don't smell..but on other hand i notice reactions like nose rubbing,clearing throat some of them make funny faces and i tell my family and friends they asked me if any body told u directly i said no but did talk abt wht's that smell but it was long time ago like 5 yr's back i had some comments that were made but now i never heard anything abt smell but ppl do react and sometimes they give me some gum or put some in there mouth while i'm there wht is this suppose to mean?plz help me out i'm sick of this..

GOD bless us all.


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## luckyhope (Jul 21, 2012)

I'm sorry to say but from the reactions you get I would say you have a problem with body odor. The thing is people have a hard time saying you smell when asked. It's hurtful to say but they don't have a problem reacting. If you get people rubbing their nose, clearing their throats, and especially making funny faces it means you have an odor problem. The more they do it the worst it is.

It also sounds like you have bad breath. People do the same thing with me. Asking if I want gum, pulling away when I speak, taking out gum when I'm around in the hopes I'll ask for a piece. Making a screw face when I talk. Things like that. It just means your breath stinks.


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## JMH91 (Apr 16, 2014)

Maria Slan said:


> 1. Scientists re not perfect.
> 
> 2. You have no idea what you have said. You re not majority in microbiology or science. Do you know that yeast and bacteria tend to live together? And when you re having infections (that what I called it) there would be blood, mucus, smelly things which draw more and more parasites, bacteria and yeasts into that wound. If you ever want to see it with your eyes then I suggest you do this experiment, you asked someone you know who s having pin-worm infection to sit in a basin with warm salt water when they re feeling the itchiness, and you drop some blood into the basin. Within 10 minutes, the red blood immediately turn to white. look at it carefully and you will see what re sticking around the blood and made it look white. Parasites just in love with human blood, and they do.


Hi M,

1. Agree. I even say "doctors have 5% knowledge, and 95% arrogance/ego". That is why to go to 10 doctors to make answer more truthful. Most Doctors will not lie about such a problem, although a minority may lie as they feel it makes things better to reassure, but the rest of the world is not part of this lie so the person does not believe lie for long. If 9/10 doctors say no smell, most likely there is no smell, or at least, smell is much worse in the persons thoughts than it is in reality.

2. I said no parasites. Candida is not parasite, it is yeast. Yeast that lives normally upon us and within us. You have not answered any evidence that Candida can smell of fecal. It cannot! Yeast like candida make ethanol. Ethanol does not smell fecal. Bacteria only can make fecal smell. Most of fecal matter is bacteria (I think about 90%) which is why it smells like this. Only parasite that I think could be related is Whipworm, which causes rectal prolapse if it is severe ... but I am not researched parasites it in detail. For parasites, get blood test and look for IgE increase. Get stool test for eggs (ovum) and larvae. If both these are negative, there is no parasite. Also important to remember, that healthy digestive system usually lives happily with parasites. People with "IBS" are sometimes given parasites by researchers, and IBS goes away. Parasites have evolved with humans, and it is simplified thinking to say we need to get rid of them all. As I said, I do not think parasites are cause of fecal odor problems except rare case.

I sat today for about 2 hours in a small room with about 10 others on a training course (I go to a new job soon). Only one comment did I think was at me, but I did not hear it fully. The instructor said time to go for a break. I asked where I could get water, she said directions. Another person said (I think) "Go to bathroom while you are there" and people laughed. BUT I did not here the comment fully. I know my brain is able to make such things up. Comment could have been anything not about smell. Person was sitting on other side of room. Why people nest to me not making any smell comment but only person on other side of room? The truth is, even if this comment was about me, there were no definite smell reactions all day. Many times, when people sniff, they are only sniff the deoderant. I have observed sniff of other people interaction. Neither did smell, but they sniff each others deoderant after a few moments of talk. It is normal reaction.



luckyhope said:


> I'll let the person that started the thread comment on who he is but I know for one it's not me. I thought you thought it was me because we had a debate in the other thread. And that thread is sort of similar to this one. It's not easy for me to talk like I don't know the language well. I talk the way I talk and thats the only way I know how to speak. I wanted to stay out of this thread because it seemed to be talking about what the other one was talking about. So what's the point in bringing it up again.
> 
> Like I said before I don't agree with what this guy says. I know doctors lie to people with body odor issues all the time. Some don't but many do. And you all hear it's in your head all the time so you don't need to hear it from the people on the board where you go to talk about your problems. You know it's not all in your head. And from what you said I know it's not all in your head. But other people aren't sure if it's all in their head or not so they make up threads like this one. The person who made this thread was probably just trying to figure it out for himself/herself.


Hi, I am different person to you "Luckyhope" if this was question. I did not read other thread, English is my joint first language actually. Perhaps I type poorly. I will try harder

Here is all possible outcomes of you asking for doctor advice about odor problem (I have thought much about this =) )

1. Doctor lies and says There is odor when there is no odor. I do not think any person here is suggesting this. Unless you go to very evil doctor, or maybe one that makes money from people with no real problem.

2. Doctor lies and says there is no odor when there is odor. Most would not do this. It is majority of doctors that do not lie. They want to help, that is their profession

3. Doctor tells truth, and truth is "There is odor". Some few doctors I have seen have said "Yes there is problem." Even they wrote in patient notes "ODOR DETECTED" I read many months later when I ask for copy of notes. This was before some treatments. I think odor is much less now. I will make new thread about all ways how I have reduced it soon... but I think this needs to be individual treatment based on cause of odor and may not work for anyone else apart from me.

4. Doctor tells truth, but truth is there is no odor at the time. This means either, (A) there is no odor at time yuo see doctor, and problem is more worse in thoughts that reality, or (B ) there is no odor at all, and problem is like olfactory reference syndrome



desprate said:


> Hi there..
> 
> i have a question?i'm sure i smell but when i ask my family members my friends and some strangers they say no u don't smell at all u smell normal..and even some of grocery store cashier and health food store sales person swear upon GOD that i don't smell..but on other hand i notice reactions like nose rubbing,clearing throat some of them make funny faces and i tell my family and friends they asked me if any body told u directly i said no but did talk abt wht's that smell but it was long time ago like 5 yr's back i had some comments that were made but now i never heard anything abt smell but ppl do react and sometimes they give me some gum or put some in there mouth while i'm there wht is this suppose to mean?plz help me out i'm sick of this..
> 
> GOD bless us all.


Hi D,

This is sounding like Olfactory reference syndrome in truth, but I have not smelled you so I cannot tell to you truth. Please read comment about about sniffing deoderant. Sniff is normal part of human meeting, does not mean there is fecal smell. People touch nose a lot . It is shown in research that most nose touching are not related to any smell. I would imagine same for throat clearing. Worst time of year for this is Winter, when all have flu and colds. EVERYONE SNIFFING all the time. Does not mean any smell. My advice to you is go see a few Doctors to ask for truth. If they all say no problem, and all people you trust say no problem, please think about possibility that problem could be like olfactory reference syndrome.


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## Maria Slan (Jul 16, 2013)

1. For the doctor problems, I do not pay my respect to them since I was in science field and know exactly what are they doing. You could say they lie or not and I actually did not mention it. But for your problems I think you should reconsider it. Why you should use your life to understand carefully if the doctors lied to you or not? That s nonsense and out of the topic btw.

For parasite, blood test, stool test and the others do not guarantee that you have it or not (I did ELISA in my research if you want to google more, it s the blood test that you have mentioned, the best one) and why you said look for IgE? not only IgE are the antibody against parasite and there so many types of IgE ? And since the method of blood test depend on antibodies, specific antibody must be used to test, if they tested for another antibody then you have another and what will happen? There are no such problem as IBS, since no causes have been investigated and no cure also.

Yeast does not make ethanol only, in its life cycle it produces many things including toxic.

You can search for microbiology book instead of just "feces" key word.

2. I really do think you re having problems in accepting your problem:

"I sat today for about 2 hours in a small room with about 10 others on a training course (I go to a new job soon). Only one comment did I think was at me, but I did not hear it fully. The instructor said time to go for a break. I asked where I could get water, she said directions. Another person said (I think) *"Go to bathroom while you are there" and people laughed*. BUT I did not here the comment fully. I know my brain is able to make such things up. Comment could have been anything not about smell. Person was sitting on other side of room. Why people nest to me not making any smell comment but only person on other side of room? The truth is, even if this comment was about me, there were no definite smell reactions all day. *Many times, when people sniff*, they are only sniff the deoderant. I have observed sniff of other people interaction. Neither did smell, but they sniff each others deoderant after a few moments of talk. It is normal reaction."

You dont need to keep finding reasons for others if you have been cured. I have been cured for 2 times and I knew what it is. I no longer care. But you re. Is it normal for you to do so? I have no idea. You re abnormal. That s all.


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## desprate (Nov 18, 2011)

Hi there..thax for ur replies fellows..but wanna make sure abt this curse or wht ever that all of my friends tell me all the time u don't smell but i think i do and other thing i'm married last year and my wife never complained or turn on me till this day,i asked her so many times and she said if it was there i was the first person 2 tell u..plz help me out here wht's goin on with me no body accept the reality cause i always get those reactions and few times ppl laughed when i was standing in a line by looking at me,i don't know wht 2 think..

GOD bless us all.


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## luckyhope (Jul 21, 2012)

I think you have a body odor problem. If people are laughing at you in lines and things like that that's proof enough. You know the truth in your heart. The people that love you won't say anything because they love you. Accept their love and move on. You have a wife and a good life. Think of all the things that bring you joy instead of pain. There is so much you're blessed with so don't worry about the things your not.

When someone has ors or somatic delusions they don't get reactions. They don't get people commenting laughing at them sniffling coughing. They dont get any of that. They will see someone look at them and think its because they smell. They will get one cough and will automatically think its about them. Things like that.


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## JMH91 (Apr 16, 2014)

Maria Slan said:


> 1. For the doctor problems, I do not pay my respect to them since I was in science field and know exactly what are they doing. You could say they lie or not and I actually did not mention it. But for your problems I think you should reconsider it. Why you should use your life to understand carefully if the doctors lied to you or not? That s nonsense and out of the topic btw.
> 
> For parasite, blood test, stool test and the others do not guarantee that you have it or not (I did ELISA in my research if you want to google more, it s the blood test that you have mentioned, the best one) and why you said look for IgE? not only IgE are the antibody against parasite and there so many types of IgE ? And since the method of blood test depend on antibodies, specific antibody must be used to test, if they tested for another antibody then you have another and what will happen? There are no such problem as IBS, since no causes have been investigated and no cure also.
> 
> ...


IgE is the antibody type which is high if parasite. It is first thing doctor would look for. I do not know of lab details about different types of IgE, but this is standard test for parasite.

Please, let us leave this question of candida away. This is fecal smell:


Methyl sulfides
methylmercaptan/methanethiol (MM)
dimethyl sulfide (DMS)
dimethyl trisulfide (DMTS)
dimethyl disulfide (DMDS)

Benzopyrrole volatiles
indole
skatole

Hydrogen sulfide (H2S)

It is mix of these chemicals which people recognize as fecal smell. Candida does not, to my knowledge make any of these chemicals. Therefore it does not make fecal smell. It is bacteria which make these.

I think, I have odor, so I am not cured, but it is small problem compared to what it used to be... Now it is much less, but maybe enough for comment. Understand that I used to get very strong comment, people in public shouting in my face. I am certain then there was smell because these comment happen many times. Now there is so little comments that I am not sure when there is odor and when there is not. Mental problem now of hearing odor comments is persisting.


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## Maria Slan (Jul 16, 2013)

1. I do know what is lgE and why it was looking by doctors. Since in parasites there re some substances that outside the body which could create allergens that why they tested for antibody. If you dont know and I suggest you should not mention it. At the first line you started to write, I do know you re just amateur and do not understand the proof of the problems. Therefore, I think it is not necessary to go further discussion.

2. Maybe you feel thinking it is delusion is better than finding the cures but the problems re real and many ppls did confirm it. Many of us who re from different countries, different positions, somes studied well and somes also have talents. Dont you think all of us and all of the memories and your memories are delusion? If yes, then I have nothing to say.

3. In term of your decreasing odor problems, I do not think it is decreasing. If its that better then they will not tell you go to bathroom or give cm in front of you. Damn, really bad it was. Sooner or later you will recognize it is real or artificial. And i do not expect you to post on this forum. Thats your daily life, not proof, many of them support the opposite sides also, haha


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

Putting moderator hat on here....

PLEASE if you think someone is violating the terms of service agreement by having multiple membership accounts.. please do not violate the terms of service yourself by making that accusation. Simply hit the report button and allow the community managers to investigate the allegation to see if any evidence exists to support it.

Thank you

Also please keep in mind that we are all entitled to post our opinions and naturally at times those opinions will differ. So please remember, as part of the terms of service agreement you agreed to upon obtaining membership here, to be respectful of one another.... so post accordingly.

Thank you


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## JMH91 (Apr 16, 2014)

Reaction is strong, these are maybe people who make small odor problem into very big problem in their head. I think, problems in childhood, like not belonging are key fact. Imagined odor problem is like excuse not to try in life. All stressful targets like money, success, friendship, love, family, are difficult and fear of failure is very big. It is safe place for mind to shrink the world down to a predictable reality like "I cannot do anything with my life because I smell. Nothing I try to do will work because of smell". This reality has not to try to do anything, and has no fear of trying and then failing. The big scary world has become very small and understandable. It is path to healing for many here to read about olfactory reference syndrome, and perhaps they realize in their own case that odor concern is very big and out of proportion to reality of the problem, and to stop putting so much emotion to trying every new cure found on internet, because >99% chance it will not work for you since different causes of odor, and most chance that "cure" was random absence of odor for that person only, and had nothing to do with "cure".


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## Nojokeibs (Apr 14, 2014)

JMH91, hi there and you've been heard, at least by me and others who've read what you wrote. I know that doesn't help much, but it's a start.

Many years ago I was in love with a wonderful man who had a cruel family and one day I had a serious commitment but I noticed that he wasn't where he was supposed to be and I knew that it was very unlike him to just wander off. I became worried. I let many people down that day by walking away from a commitment and looking for him, but I'm glad I did. I found him in a field with a knife pointed at his heart. He had told me many times I was special to him to so I approached slowly and talked to him so as not to scare him. He didn't say anything. Eventually I told him if he was going to do that, he would have to hurt me too, and I wrapped my hand around the knife blade. I didn't take it away, or try to stop him. I knew him, he had to have control over his life, or make a decision. But I don't know if I could have let him actually do it. I probably would've tried to unbalance the knife if I felt it move, in all honesty. He let out a big breath and took the knife away from his chest, finally dropping it. He never did tell me what the problem was, he was secretive like that and I wasn't pushy. As far as I know, he lives a normal life now, and has a family of his own. We don't talk anymore, but we have a mutual friend and once every 10 years or so I see a picture of his family.

Many people have stories like this. I've come to the conclusion that what you said, "not living with you people" and "hostile world" is the root of this difficulty. Look at the people who are most likely to die from suicide: tribal people, women recently having given birth, teens. These are the most vulnerable people in our society. How we treat vulnerable people as a society will ultimately determine our suicide rates. Body odor is one potential vulnerability. I think the best thing I can say to you is that while body odor is something uncomfortable for people around you, it must be more uncomfortable for you. And it's not your fault if people are too busy or dense to make that connection.

Do you know about TED talks? There's a great one on suicide where the guy discusses how life become narrowed. I think because of my early experience, I have kept one eye on the reasons why people choose to participate in society and why they choose to dis-associate or even leave it. Give this video a try and maybe it will lead you to some other ideas for how to find ways out of the mental cage you described. I hope you find what you're looking for.

"Why we choose suicide: Mark Henick at TEDxToronto"






I just want to add, because nobody else has yet mentioned it, that parsley and cilantro (both freshly chopped and added to food) have been known to reduce body odor for many people. I don't know if it works for everyone, but since nobody has yet mentioned it, I felt I should.

How to tell the difference between parsley and cilantro:

http://apeaceofcake.net/difference-parsley-coriandercilantro-chervil/


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## JMH91 (Apr 16, 2014)

Hi Nojokeibs,

I agree with your understanding of suicide that being outside of society, and being different from others is biggest problem. Humans are social animals, they evolve in groups like chimpanzees. This is why social rejection is so deep to us, because it is very dangerous for human ancestor to be alone. More danger from starvation, from predator, and less chance of reproduce and pass genes on, no chance to fight competitor group for resources when alone. Evolution has so made this alone state very distressing. Mind is screaming "THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG!" at us all the time we are outside of society. On other side, group of people do not like disease in the group. Disease spread from one to all and dangers all of group. So rest of group take person who smells and drive them out, because smell could mean sign of disease and bad genes. Other things that make person different from group, it is nature to drive them out. People with disability, like facial deformity, or different accent, or different way of dressing, etc etc. Racism and fear of different people is nature, will always be a problem in societies. Even, competition with other village, other town, other city. Always one group hate another nearby. Often in history, racism is described by people in terms of smell. Many times you will read of hatred of black people in American history, "It is because they stink" etc. Body odor communicates different genes, which is competition with group.

It is easier if childhood and whole life has been outside society to different degrees. Then real odor problem comes as less of a problem than it would to person who needs constant interaction and attention from social peers. For many years, when people are laughing or are angry and upset with me, it means very little to me. I am in my own world from this. Worst times from when I was being bullied by any people at work, always knowing my name and my odor problem to laugh, when I did not know them. Then in street, people also know my name and shout to me. With real odor problem, I think it is good idea to move and not stay in one place for length of time. 1 year maybe is good time, but then gossip becomes known to all and it is time to leave. Easier to be anonymous, because then the only people to laugh are strangers and never become known to you. Thankfully, my odor seems to have reduced from this time..no more do strangers shout in my face on public transport for smell. So I try to move on, but I doubt I will ever recover from this, especially because sometimes still odor problem. Most people do not lose contact with everyone they know, all family etc. So difficult for such person to recover when all ties have gone that normal people keep for their lifetime. Also, maybe is "narrowed perception" as in video, but I see many bad things in society from where I look. I would be lying of course if I pretend that if my odor problem completely solved I would not want to become social. But it is realistic to think that odor problem which is not cured for many, many years, and many many different doctors, is not ever going to go away, especially with internet cures with no science.

Very difficult to ask anyone to live in these society with odor problem, which is why it becomes so much bigger problem in the mind than in reality. This is why I try to say, only make sure that odor problem is ACTUALLY REAL by asking more than one doctor. You may find reality check is that there is no odor. Why are so many reports of olfactory reference syndrome? More to spell out, there are more science and medicine reports about olfactory reference syndrome than "odor problems in rectum". What does this say? Maybe it says, that imagined odor problems are more common than real odor problems, or that minor odor problem becomes major mental problem.

For parsley and cilantro, must understand that, many people with real odor problem **here** have dysfunction of anal sphincter. Problem is nerves or other reason which sphincter does not close properly, or does not have sensation properly, or some problem with not pushing out all of bowel movement, or some inflammation which causes mucus (etc etc 1000s of causes I think). Sphincter that does not control gas, and mucus leak maybe fecal smell. Normal body odor can be modified with diet (if no major body odor disease), but problem with anal sphincter will not be solved with such diet. I used to think it could be possible, but I do not think it is possible to eliminate all fecal smell. This is normal and healthy smell, so impossible to "cure" it. It is like saying, "how can I cure myself of breathing?". It is just how human body works. Can search on this forum and on internet for 1000s of such "cures"... there is no life for people to endlessly read such cures. Read new cure, happy hopeful that this will finally work and solve problem, try cure, realize soon after days that cure does not cure, crash into sadness and helplessness. Always mind is in this cage looking for cure.

Anyway, I talk too much


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## Maria Slan (Jul 16, 2013)

This is the only time I respond to community hat in here and I will never be on it second time.

This person had a very high chance of registering new nicknames to supporting his/her own ideas. And he/she also stated that this forum is just a place for delusion feeding.

I did not force him/her to stop posting either, since I just expect she/he wont do this again in the way he/she did. And people have the right to post their hopes on the page.

Since my comments were mainly stated the science proof then where were the disrespecting lines? And I were just saying that he/she is abnormal, and he/she were also stated that he/she is having a problems with his/her mind.

In this condition I do think the moderators should consider the rules again, since when we agree for people who are having problems with their mind posting freely like this? Do you agree that they are not conscious at all?


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

If you ever suspect someone of having multiple accounts.. please just report it to us and let us take care of it. And...



> And I were just saying that he/she is abnormal, and he/she were also stated that he/she is having a problems with his/her mind.


Hon this statement could easily be misunderstood to be disrespectful. Calling someone "abnormal" could naturally upset them. And I do understand that English is not your first language and I appreciate your efforts to post here despite that. So just choose your words a bit more carefully is all. Thanks!


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## Maria Slan (Jul 16, 2013)

I am sorry because of different in cultures I do not know it is not better in English to call people have problems with their mind is "abnormal". Doctors in Asian countries used it so frequently for this kind of sickness, and it meant the slightest idea for us. Thanks for the reply.


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## JMH91 (Apr 16, 2014)

> since when we agree for people who are having problems with their mind posting freely like this?


There is much more stigma targeted against mental illness in China and places near to this part of the world. Maybe this also makes you more angry if someone suggest mental problem instead of physical.

If you say I am abnormal, maybe this is accurate since many comments I have hearing about odor are not really about me or any odor. This is healing realization... I encourage others here to read into "Olfactory reference syndrome" since this may be the problem, or the majority of the problem for many.


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## Nojokeibs (Apr 14, 2014)

JMH91 said:


> Hi Nojokeibs,
> 
> I agree with your understanding of suicide that being outside of society, and being different from others is biggest problem. Humans are social animals, they evolve in groups like chimpanzees. This is why social rejection is so deep to us, because it is very dangerous for human ancestor to be alone. More danger from starvation, from predator, and less chance of reproduce and pass genes on, no chance to fight competitor group for resources when alone. Evolution has so made this alone state very distressing. Mind is screaming "THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG!" at us all the time we are outside of society. On other side, group of people do not like disease in the group. Disease spread from one to all and dangers all of group. So rest of group take person who smells and drive them out, because smell could mean sign of disease and bad genes. Other things that make person different from group, it is nature to drive them out. People with disability, like facial deformity, or different accent, or different way of dressing, etc etc. Racism and fear of different people is nature, will always be a problem in societies. Even, competition with other village, other town, other city. Always one group hate another nearby. Often in history, racism is described by people in terms of smell. Many times you will read of hatred of black people in American history, "It is because they stink" etc. Body odor communicates different genes, which is competition with group.


I can see that these forces are present in groups. However, the point of society and civilization is to overcome animal urges to compete, exclude and bully the vulnerable. There is such a thing as the "bystander effect" in groups, where people who do not agree with what is happening, will condone terrible acts of violence and cruelty. The only known countermeasure to this effect is if the victim specifically asks for the help of one person in the group, by name. Apparently this does not always work, but only sometimes.

Is there a medical solution to the sphincter issue? Biofeedback, retraining, or whatever it takes to bring feeling back to the area and retrain the muscles? Are you sure you've exhausted all possibilities for reducing gas? Eliminated high FODMAP foods? Those are guaranteed to cause gas for everyone, it's just that some people don't have a problem with having some extra gas. People that do have a problem with it, should avoid FODMAP containing foods. At least that isn't a product anyone is trying to sell you.

http://med.monash.edu.au/cecs/gastro/education/2013-public-lecture.html


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## JMH91 (Apr 16, 2014)

Society and civilization is also governed by animal instinct. This is why most of world has capitalism. Capitalism is survival of the fittest, and is best suited to human nature. The world we live in, with all problems, is mirror of human soul.

Thank you for suggestions, I talk shortly about things you mention, but these problem is not simple and easy to solve, and as I keep saying 1000s of different causes I believe.

For me, cannot get nerve sensation back once nerve damage. Not unless surgery like sacral nerve simulator ($$$$). Causes of nerve damage like long term constipation, straining, or giving birth, not realized until it is far too late and damage has happened.

FODMAP diet is mainly for ibs symptoms like bloating, excessive gas, pain, Constipation and diarrhea. It does not greatly effect odor in my experience, but it is a good diet and it works for what it can do. I have 0% gas if I stay on this strict diet. But diet is very depressing unless you learn to cook







. Also I try to build muscle, so I am not take any diet really. When I go to work I will probably try close FODMAP diet again, but I need to eat lots of protein. I prefer to feel more confident about my body than be so thin on strict FODMAP. People are also less likely to laugh if you look bigger I think. Low FODMAP diet is relatively recent brand name from Australia. There is also "low residue diet" from Canada/America from Dr M Pimmentel, but there was similar diet ideas published long before these diet names. All aim to reduce food to bacteria in gut essentially. I am sorry I do not have internet to watch video currently, but yes I know of low FODMAP.

Biofeedback- this means many things. It can be putting the co-ordination of muscles back together. This is for problem like anismus. I think, you only need 1-2 sessions of this, and then to just remember how to push properly from when session was. I did not like this biofeedback, I stopped after 1 session because it is embarrassing for men to have female do this treatment. Other meaning of biofeedback is strength of muscles training. You can do same thing in privacy of home with TENS machine for pelvic floor/anal sphincter muscles. TENS is better than Kegel because contractions are done for you and you can increase the electric slowly over time, but both do same thing. Muscles of anal sphincter become stronger, and also more bulk of muscle even when sphincter is relaxed. This is good to increase resting strength as well as contraction strength.


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## Nojokeibs (Apr 14, 2014)

I'm glad to have spoken with you. I think we need all voices on the Internet, not just American, or generally Western. I learned so much from the Internet and forums. I hope you will stay, and share with us your future insights about your condition, and what works for you. I also hope you can find some things to help you here.

I personally don't find that there is much difference between illness of the mind or body. I find that my ADHD goes into remission if my body is feeling well. I think of myself as a whole person. I also personally think that first of all every person will have a cause of death one day, probably, hopefully old age and heart stoppage - but for most people there will be something in old age, colitis, cancer, heart attack... Every person's body is imperfect in some way, there is no need in my view, to pretend that we are perfect. We all do our best to be presentable and kind to others. How well we succeed is our character. How well others receive us is their character.


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## JMH91 (Apr 16, 2014)

Well, if only more people were open-minded, then maybe world would not be the way it is... unfortunately, you are the minority. I believe human is most successful species, and is the way it is because of evolution instincts which can seem very cruel to individuals, but overall to group they have had evolutionary benefit. Driving people with differences, which could be flag of disease, poor genes, out of group is for strenght of group.

Something happens in lab with petri dish. Spreading several different types of bacteria on the agar, and seal the dish for several days to observe them. First thing, is that the bacteria species which is most able to adapt to the condition inside dish out-competes all other species. Soon, you have only one species of bacteria left. With no competition, they grow population very fast, as long as their is some of the nutrients left. When nutrients start to run out, and their wastes start to become toxic levels for them, their populations collapse suddenly. In dish, this takes only a number of days because of bacteria replicate so fast. On our planet, has taken longer for this process, but it is essentially same.

Yes I agree most illness is combined mental and physical. This is main method of thought in medicine in modern times ("bio-psychosocial model of disease")... but extreme views are most illness is mental ("psychosocial model"), or other extreme that most illness is psychical ("biological model")


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