# Another Positive Change



## overitnow (Nov 25, 2001)

I have eliminated most of my bowel problems for years with a flavonoid supplement. Essentially, my bowel habits have dropped down to 2 a days, with an occasional 3 on particularly soft days; but usually without the difficulties of diarrhea. (Some urgency and some softness. Usually controllable.) This past summer I have seen some variation based on, seemingly, what I am eating. In August I was away from home for a week and my diet changed to restaurant and bar food. Even with the higher fat content and daily drinks, during that period my stools got a lot more compact and a lot less sticky. When I returned home, frequency and composition returned to my normal. Since the end of Summer I have also been working on a case of eczema which seems to be dietary as well. As a part of this I have stopped eating fresh tomatoes and nuts. (I was "addicted" to cashews and almond butter, when it became clear, some years ago, that peanuts created real problems.) In the past week, my stools have suddenly become quite large and firm...dare I say "normal?...and the eczema has stopped itching and spreading, which leads me to believe that I have found at least a secondary contributing factor after smoking. It also underlines how disparate problems may well be a part of the same bodily reaction. It's a constant battle, this IBS, but there are rewards. Don't give up.Mark


----------



## jmc09 (Oct 5, 2009)

Is the flavanoid substance the Digestive Advantage stuff? And how long did it take until you started to feel the benefits?


----------



## Diana63 (Oct 20, 2009)

Glad to here you are feeling so much better.Good to read positive things on here to.I am desperate myself to get some ease in my severe symptoms,but i do carry on best i can and try to be positive.Take care.


----------



## overitnow (Nov 25, 2001)

jmc: The product I use is called Provex CV. It is a combination of fruit extracts from the seeds and skins of grapes, bilberries, gingko with the addition of quercetin and recently added resveratrol along with some factors to power the absorption. It was developed to strengthen the circulatory system and lower the oxidation of cholesterol. One of its functions is to lower the aggregation of platelets which otherwise contribute to plaque buildups. It appears from some old research that this same platelet behaviour contributes to bowel inflammation. According to Dr. John Folts, the scientist who oversees the testing, there are reports of other anti-inflammatory properties as well. It took 6 weeks to see an end to my digestive problems, a year to completely resolve the D--although it is important to note that I never had another instance of not being able to get to my toilet in time when I was working from home, a problem that had driven me to tears--and has continued to improve my condition for over 10 years. Diana63: I think this is a realization that finding something to regularize our bowels is really just the start, although the most important one. It is only in this past year, after all this time, that I have come to understand something of how our foods, habits, environment, and stress all contribute to this breakdown. Each element that we address (even to my almond butter) helps us improve our overall health and reverses the downward spiral that this condition brings on. Do stay positive and do keep trying different therapies. If there is something for me, after all of my self-inflicted abuse, than there must be something for you, too. Mark


----------



## Siea (Jun 21, 2010)

overitnow said:


> jmc: The product I use is called Provex CV. It is a combination of fruit extracts from the seeds and skins of grapes, bilberries, gingko with the addition of quercetin and recently added resveratrol along with some factors to power the absorption. It was developed to strengthen the circulatory system and lower the oxidation of cholesterol. One of its functions is to lower the aggregation of platelets which otherwise contribute to plaque buildups. It appears from some old research that this same platelet behaviour contributes to bowel inflammation. According to Dr. John Folts, the scientist who oversees the testing, there are reports of other anti-inflammatory properties as well. It took 6 weeks to see an end to my digestive problems, a year to completely resolve the D--although it is important to note that I never had another instance of not being able to get to my toilet in time when I was working from home, a problem that had driven me to tears--and has continued to improve my condition for over 10 years. Diana63: I think this is a realization that finding something to regularize our bowels is really just the start, although the most important one. It is only in this past year, after all this time, that I have come to understand something of how our foods, habits, environment, and stress all contribute to this breakdown. Each element that we address (even to my almond butter) helps us improve our overall health and reverses the downward spiral that this condition brings on. Do stay positive and do keep trying different therapies. If there is something for me, after all of my self-inflicted abuse, than there must be something for you, too. Mark


I found a possible substitute for provexcv. Lamberts Imuno-Strength (Elderberry Rosehip and Blackcurrant Concentrates), 500mlhttp://www.vitaminbutiken.com/imuno-strength-elderberry-rosehip-blackcurrant-concentrate-extract-supplements-500ml.htmlI ordered this and hopefully it will help me. But I have some questions.1. Why does it say that you should not exceed the daily recommended dose? (why wouldn't doubleing the dose be better?)2. At what time of the day should I take it?3. Should I take it before, after or during a meal?


----------



## overitnow (Nov 25, 2001)

Hi Siea,I looked at the ingredients and it will be interesting to see if it makes a difference. The flavonoids are produced in the seeds and skins of the fruits. Since it is made from juice concentrates, there are likely to be less of them than from a strict seed/skin product; however, there are likely to be other values from the elderberry and black current, so time will tell. With the Provex, they have a 2 dose a day schedule, which I would suppose keeps the platelet control functioning, which I think is the cause of my recovery. Because there is a slight blood thinning from the grapes (and the gingko in the case of Provex, I don't know if this is the same with Elderberry and Currants) that may be one reason for the caution of dosage. It does reducing clotting, although I have never seen any evidence of that with my own bleeding. You should, however, discontinue it if you are planning surgery. I have taken the supplements with and without meals and have never suffered any problems that I could trace to that. (As Kathleen would say, "Mileage may vary," so listen to your body.) As far as when to take it, I don't know if there will be any material difference. Since (I think) that control of platelet aggregation is the key to lowering GI inflammation, you might want to write the manufacturer to see if there is any evidence that the product actually does that. Lastly, you will want to try this for 2 or 3 months to see is there is any improvement, or not. Check on guarantees of satisfaction.Best of luck,Mark


----------



## Siea (Jun 21, 2010)

overitnow said:


> Hi Siea,I looked at the ingredients and it will be interesting to see if it makes a difference. The flavonoids are produced in the seeds and skins of the fruits. Since it is made from juice concentrates, there are likely to be less of them than from a strict seed/skin product; however, there are likely to be other values from the elderberry and black current, so time will tell. With the Provex, they have a 2 dose a day schedule, which I would suppose keeps the platelet control functioning, which I think is the cause of my recovery. Because there is a slight blood thinning from the grapes (and the gingko in the case of Provex, I don't know if this is the same with Elderberry and Currants) that may be one reason for the caution of dosage. It does reducing clotting, although I have never seen any evidence of that with my own bleeding. You should, however, discontinue it if you are planning surgery. I have taken the supplements with and without meals and have never suffered any problems that I could trace to that. (As Kathleen would say, "Mileage may vary," so listen to your body.) As far as when to take it, I don't know if there will be any material difference. Since (I think) that control of platelet aggregation is the key to lowering GI inflammation, you might want to write the manufacturer to see if there is any evidence that the product actually does that. Lastly, you will want to try this for 2 or 3 months to see is there is any improvement, or not. Check on guarantees of satisfaction.Best of luck,Mark


Thank you.On top if this I have also ordered Acai powder which are made 100% of freeze dried acai.It is a Swedish webpage but it says that the acai hold 6 times as much flavanoids as blueberrys.Would you think it is wise to mix those two for three months? (taking one in the morning and one at dinner time for an even cycle of 12 hours between them)


----------



## overitnow (Nov 25, 2001)

If you can locate a qualified nutritionist or naturopath, that would probably be better than depending upon me. I have a friend who took large doses of Provex CV and Provex Plus--a less absorbed earlier release of the product--to treat his MS. It certainly helped him and did him no harm, so I suspect that adding the acai would be okay; but I am just not prepared to say what your experience would be.Mark


----------



## Janei (Jul 31, 2009)

overitnow said:


> If you can locate a qualified nutritionist or naturopath, that would probably be better than depending upon me. I have a friend who took large doses of Provex CV and Provex Plus--a less absorbed earlier release of the product--to treat his MS. It certainly helped him and did him no harm, so I suspect that adding the acai would be okay; but I am just not prepared to say what your experience would be.Mark


Hi Mark,I seem to alternate between C and D depending mainly (I think ) on my anxiety levels etc. I also have a problem with mucus discharge which really upsets me as it is both unpredictable and very inconvenient.Do you think that a product like Provex would help me? My IBS started 2 years ago AFTER I quit smoking.Would appreciate your opinion.Thanks so muchJane x


----------



## overitnow (Nov 25, 2001)

Hi Jane,I don't know if IBS-C is an inflammatory condition. I assume others on the Board would know if that is the case. Alternating IBS is normally considered a C condition, although if your D follows from anxiety, then a good case could be made for it being an inflammatory response and there are linkages between adrenaline and the colon platelet behavior that seems to be at the root of my D. Certainly, if you smoked for any period of time there are likely to be cardio problems along with inflammation developing. The Provex CV will lower the the deposit of cholesterol, will increase your circulation, is being studied for general anti-inflammatory properties, and may lower any bowel responses from inflammation. (It also seems to have eliminated a case of re-occurring vertigo that plagued my wife for a couple of years.) I know this is not a definitive answer; but that is really not possible.Mark


----------



## Siea (Jun 21, 2010)

Mark since I mentioned in some thread that I was not taking the grape seed which the study was based on I figured I do want to order the right item even if it is not the same brand as you got (cannot get it in Sweden...).What do you think about this one? (it doesn't say *red* gapes though, is that a problem?)http://international.drugstore.com/olympian-labs-grape-seed-extra-strength-200mg/qxp274685


----------



## overitnow (Nov 25, 2001)

In the latest version of Provex CV they have included Resveratrol as a part of the formulation. If you Google " Resveratrol platelet" you should find a study by Wang that shows success with this and platelet aggregation, which I believe to be the source of my recovery. If you then Google Resveratrol in Sweden you will find a long thread in LONGECITY site that discusses getting it into Sweden from various suppliers in Europe. (There is one person on that thread who mentioned using it above a certain dosage as giving him the runs, so you might want to make sure you don't buy the brand he mentions). Provex CV uses Bromelain along with a couple of other ingredients to massively improve absorption. I cannot identify the fungals that make up those ingredients; but Melaleuca routinely uses Bromelain to enhance absorption of some of it's supplements, so a low dose of that at the same time as taking the grape extract might be helpful.I hope this helps you find a simple way to test this theory out on yourself.Mark


----------



## Siea (Jun 21, 2010)

overitnow said:


> In the latest version of Provex CV they have included Resveratrol as a part of the formulation. If you Google " Resveratrol platelet" you should find a study by Wang that shows success with this and platelet aggregation, which I believe to be the source of my recovery. If you then Google Resveratrol in Sweden you will find a long thread in LONGECITY site that discusses getting it into Sweden from various suppliers in Europe. (There is one person on that thread who mentioned using it above a certain dosage as giving him the runs, so you might want to make sure you don't buy the brand he mentions). Provex CV uses Bromelain along with a couple of other ingredients to massively improve absorption. I cannot identify the fungals that make up those ingredients; but Melaleuca routinely uses Bromelain to enhance absorption of some of it's supplements, so a low dose of that at the same time as taking the grape extract might be helpful.I hope this helps you find a simple way to test this theory out on yourself.Mark


Great thanks!Was checking out provexcv again but it is such a strange business concept. You have to be an invited member from IRL. It is impossible to just become a member online...But anyway thanks to your linking I found this product: http://www.vitacost.com/NSI-Resveratrol-Grape-Seed-Red-Wine-ExtractsThat one should work right?


----------



## overitnow (Nov 25, 2001)

It looks good and the price is definitely great. One of the findings in the study led by Dr Wang is that the grape works better with the addition of a small quantity of quercetin. Looking at the Provex CV label, the daily amounts of grape seed and skin are 330 mg, 60 mg Resveratrol, 100mg green tea leaf extract, and 60 mg of mixed ingredients, including quercetin, bilberry, and gingko biloba, along with the bromelain and fungals for absorptive reasons. I know making this too complex can be self-defeating. It will be interesting to see if any of this helps you.The whole marketing thing traces back to the beginnings of the company, when they were trying to find a way, 25 years ago, to sell non-toxic home products at a time when that was not in high demand. Given their growth, it seems to have been a good decision. In effect, they have remained loyal to those people that allowed the company to thrive. Beyond that, the product line has to pass national health standards in whatever country into which they expand. I'm pretty sure it's an accounting issue.Mark


----------



## Siea (Jun 21, 2010)

overitnow said:


> It looks good and the price is definitely great. One of the findings in the study led by Dr Wang is that the grape works better with the addition of a small quantity of quercetin. Looking at the Provex CV label, the daily amounts of grape seed and skin are 330 mg, 60 mg Resveratrol, 100mg green tea leaf extract, and 60 mg of mixed ingredients, including quercetin, bilberry, and gingko biloba, along with the bromelain and fungals for absorptive reasons. I know making this too complex can be self-defeating. It will be interesting to see if any of this helps you.The whole marketing thing traces back to the beginnings of the company, when they were trying to find a way, 25 years ago, to sell non-toxic home products at a time when that was not in high demand. Given their growth, it seems to have been a good decision. In effect, they have remained loyal to those people that allowed the company to thrive. Beyond that, the product line has to pass national health standards in whatever country into which they expand. I'm pretty sure it's an accounting issue.Mark


Sure it has worked great for them. But I don't see the harm in letting old customers get a rebate and let people like me for example order a for a little higher price online.Maybe there is some harm. I just havn't figured it out...But anyway I ordered the one I linked too in my last post. I will update here if it does turn out to help me.Thanks for you help Mark. I really appreciate it!


----------



## Siea (Jun 21, 2010)

overitnow said:


> It looks good and the price is definitely great. One of the findings in the study led by Dr Wang is that the grape works better with the addition of a small quantity of quercetin. Looking at the Provex CV label, the daily amounts of grape seed and skin are 330 mg, 60 mg Resveratrol, 100mg green tea leaf extract, and 60 mg of mixed ingredients, including quercetin, bilberry, and gingko biloba, along with the bromelain and fungals for absorptive reasons. I know making this too complex can be self-defeating. It will be interesting to see if any of this helps you.The whole marketing thing traces back to the beginnings of the company, when they were trying to find a way, 25 years ago, to sell non-toxic home products at a time when that was not in high demand. Given their growth, it seems to have been a good decision. In effect, they have remained loyal to those people that allowed the company to thrive. Beyond that, the product line has to pass national health standards in whatever country into which they expand. I'm pretty sure it's an accounting issue.Mark


Just got the product today. http://www.vitacost.com/NSI-Resveratrol-Grape-Seed-Red-Wine-ExtractsBut I noticed the resveratrol does not come from the grapeseeds but infact from the japanese knotweed.Wasn't expecting that. Is that a problem you think?Also, each tablet contain only 37,5 mg of resveratrol. So planning on taking 1 tablet the first week to see if there are any side effects. Then start taking two tablets the second week for a total of 2*37.5= 75mg resveratrol a day which is closer to what ProvexCV holds.


----------



## overitnow (Nov 25, 2001)

Well, Japanese knotweed. I have no idea about its biological effect. I presume resveratol will act the same no matter it's source. As far as dosage, your approach seems sound. Once you are sure that it has no side effects, you might augment it with a low dosage of quercetin and grape seed and see how that goes for a couple of months.Best,Mark


----------



## Siea (Jun 21, 2010)

overitnow said:


> Well, Japanese knotweed. I have no idea about its biological effect. I presume resveratol will act the same no matter it's source. As far as dosage, your approach seems sound. Once you are sure that it has no side effects, you might augment it with a low dosage of quercetin and grape seed and see how that goes for a couple of months.Best,Mark


You mentioned Quercetin, but I also noticed Bromelain is in provexcv. So I ordered this one now: http://www.vitacost.com/NSI-Quercetin-BromelainAbout augmenting with grape seed. The product I already got contain grape seed, why do you suggest even more?


----------



## overitnow (Nov 25, 2001)

Sorry, I didn't check the ingredients, I thought this was just resveratrol from knotweed... Melaleuca uses bromelain in a number of its formulations as an anti-inflammatory to allow greater absorption. What you ordered ought to help fill that bill.Mark


----------



## Siea (Jun 21, 2010)

overitnow said:


> Sorry, I didn't check the ingredients, I thought this was just resveratrol from knotweed... Melaleuca uses bromelain in a number of its formulations as an anti-inflammatory to allow greater absorption. What you ordered ought to help fill that bill.Mark


In this thread, http://www.ibsgroup.org/forums/topic/91243-red-wine-and-ibs/it is mentioned that red wine can cause trouble for those with ISB. I never noticed any correlation myself though...But anyway the product I am currently using contains red wine extract: http://www.vitacost.com/NSI-Resveratrol-Grape-Seed-Red-Wine-ExtractsShould I try looking for another brand without the wine extracts?


----------



## overitnow (Nov 25, 2001)

i think that Resveratrol is generally sourced from either red wine or the grapes after the extraction. In any case, if the grape seed is from red wine, then you might want to look for another source. (Resveratrol + grape seed + quercetin + bromelainm with small doses of the last two ingredients.) Anyway, you can try taking what you have on hand and then make changes. If this is going to work for you, you may see small changes as you make changes to your inputs. Feel free to send me a PM.Mark


----------



## Siea (Jun 21, 2010)

The Bromelain gave me stomach pain and some D.So I ordered Quercetin on it's own and my body seem to accept that.Gonna eay this now for some months and see if ther eis an improvement.


----------

