# Just looking



## jb2 (Jan 6, 2002)

I'm here to have a look round as suggested.I should have done my research before shouting my big mouth off. I aplogise but I had a bad day, nearly messed myself in a store thought I wouldn't make it home and me a grown man on the wrong side of 50. Went home and wrote that other stuff.Will explain my reasonings about hypnosis and quack medicine at a later date.


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## norbert46 (Feb 20, 2001)

Welcome jb2, and I'm a hardheaded grown man who is also on the "wrong" side of 50!







I've had IBS/D for 35yrs and tried all the MD's,meds and therapies until I had success stopping it with the hypnotape program discussed here from your fellow countryman Mike Mahoney! I didn't have any luck with biofeedback, psychotherapy or clinical hypnosis but none of these were gut-specific like Mike's program. Read here and ask questions that will be gladly answered by Mike,Eric or Marilyn!







Norb


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

Hi jb2, Worry not, we have all been there. I can only say I'm female, on the wrong side of 40, so that's like the same as being on the wrong side of 50 for a guy, right?







Messed myself plenty of times, which is exceptionally annoying when you are trying to potty train a toddler.







Anyhoo, read and read and then ask all of your questions. They are REAL patient with us curious types here.







JB the best thing I have ever done was to educate myself about IBS and also on hypnosis. I was one of those folks who had to understand the science behind hypno and understand how it worked before I could try it. So I've asked tons of questions and can attest to the patience of the members here.







So Welcome JB and just let us know when ya need something.







BQ


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Jb, no problem. Ask any questions you want and were here to help as we all have been helped here.


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## cookies4marilyn (Jun 30, 2000)

Welcome Jb! We've all been there...so we can empathize! And yes, many BB members know all too well that there are good and bad medical and alternative therapies out there, and so we are quite protective of each other in not being "taken." One of our biggest protectors is Mike, in that he told me some of his patients had endured all manner of quackery and fruitless attempts at helping their IBS. And he understands the IBS condition: He had one fella (patient)who messed himself wearing white shorts during a sports outing, and no where to hide... so he had to deal with the shame of it as well as the IBS!Feel free to explain your reasonings! Most likely they are similar to some of our experiences, we IBSers seem to share that commonality too!As for what side of what year... "I'm old enough to know better, but young enough to do it again!!"







Take care, and again, Welcome!


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## jb2 (Jan 6, 2002)

Thank you for all of your replies they are appreciated.Can I try to explain where I am coming from. If this gets too boring please go and read something else don't fall asleep on my account.I work as a full time fundraiser for the hospice movement in the UK and for one particular hospice. As you know, our patients are terminally ill with cancer and some with HIV or other related illness, and as such, a minority are open to many suggestions concerning help and even cures.Out there in the big wide world including the internet there are many unscrupuless (spelling?) people ready to pedal quackery to people such as these in order to boost their bank balances with no thoughts as to the terrible emotional pain they are causing to folks who are already in great pain and discomfort. When I first glimpsed this site and saw the stuff on here about alterenatives,hypno etc my blood temperature rose as I wrongly thought here we have a prime example of rip off merchants asking us to buy this and that. I should have looked before I leapt and taken more time as I have done now and realise what a very informative and helpful place this is.My apologies to Jeff and anyone else that I may have offended.Hypnotherapy?Could someone answer me this please.I am a christian and I am wondering if clinical hypnotherapy is open to christian people from a biblical perspective. I am not sure about this and would appreciate any help you could give.I have read somewhere on this board that Mike is a christian, but where I saw that I can't remember as this place is so vast with so much info.Many thanks.


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## norbert46 (Feb 20, 2001)

JB2, I have read your post and agree with your skeptical thinking. We have to always be alert for scams and profiteers and research to find the truth. Like you, I am also a Christian and find nothing in the imagery on the tapes to cause me concern. You are correct that Mike Mahoney said he has a Christian Faith. You can find this fact and his wisdom and explanation of just about everything if you will read on this BB the post by Marilyn "Mike's Informational Postings". Others here will help you with more educational research type of information. Best wishes for better health, Norb


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Jb, I have to run for a bit, but will post some info here for you on all this.One thing I did a while ago was email the Pope about Hypnotherapy. I did not get a reply from him personally, but I did get one from someone who was pretty high up the ladder there and he said he uses it and that the church did not take a stand against it.here is one perspective. http://www.durbinhypnosis.com/hypnosisreligion.htm There use to be a con site paper on the house of god website, but the paper is gone and there selling hypnosis. LOL I wish that was still there though.


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## LTL (Dec 18, 2001)

Hi JB2,I am a Christian, and I was a bit apprehensive about trying the tapes, because I saw mention of "new age", crystals, and "special friend" which had evidently caused some concerns to Christians.After praying about it, I came to believe that God led me to the tapes to help me, so I'm on day 77 & am very glad that I tried them.If I might address the things that had evidently caused some Christians some concern &#8230;Mike uses the phrase "new age" once (up through tape 5 anyway), and the context in which he uses it is similar to saying "new age of electronics", or "new age of government", etc. It has absolutely nothing to do with new ageism, and I think that anyone who has a problem with this may just be looking for an argument.The "special friend", as it is presented, can be interpreted as a witch (perhaps of the Harry Potter variety), so I can see why some Christians would have a problem with that. Mike never calls her a witch, just describes some of the things that she does. However, the things that the friend does seem consistent with things that angels do in the Bible, so I have decided that the friend is my guardian angel. With that interpretation, I have no problem at all.The crystal seems to have healing power, which is also something that Christians may have problems with. However, it is given to me by my guardian angel, and remembering the brass serpent which Moses constructed (also for healing), I can resolve this within my faith. Like the brass serpent, the crystal doesn't really have any power. It is just a point for the release of faith - the real power comes from God. (Of course the serpent was a foreshadow of Jesus Christ, and the crystal is not, so the analogy falls apart there, as all analogies do eventually).I haven't listened to side 6 yet (the last part), but as I understand it, it just refers to the things from 2-5, so I doubt that there will be any concerns there.As far as hypnotism in general goes, I see no problem with that at all - it is content that concerns me. I try to be very careful about what I dump into my brain, whether it is from TV, printed matter, internet, or hypnotic tapes.As in all decisions, it is best to pray about it, and ask for God's guidance for whether or not He wants you to try them. I think the tapes are great.


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## cookies4marilyn (Jun 30, 2000)

jb2 ~ Yes, you are correct, Mike is a Christian, and his beliefs are important to him as well. In that regard,too he has worked as therapist with many individuals, including the elderly, and terminally ill, so I am sure the two of you actually have quite a bit in common really! Having worked myself in a nursing home, and with mentally handicapped individuals, in the past, I too can relate, and I applaud your intentions!As you may know, using clinical hypnotherapy does not in any way change your beliefs or alter who you are in any way. You never will do anything that you wouldn't do in a full conscious state. When using Mike's recordings, you are in an altered state of consciousness, one that you are in and out of all day long anyway, ...such as concentrating on a project, etc. It just doesn't happen that you lose control, etc. So your faith will not be compromised in anyway...As far as the imagery used, Mike has mentioned it is just that: imagery; being from England yourself, he was trying to evoke the feeling of childlike wonder and enchantment, and nothing more... The other comments here also reinforce that. I had questioned Mike about these very things as well, and I assure you having completed the program, my Christian beliefs and faith are just as strong... in fact as I grow spiritually, I find that they are stronger now, in that I pray even more, and rely and trust in God in everything.Thanks for clearing up your original post. It is with communication, understanding, and compassion that we come to know each other... so again, welcome...and God bless! Peace to all....


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

I just want to add some facts and fallacies about HT.Facts and Fallacies about hypnosis: Fallacy: Hypnosis is occult or supernatural Fact: Hypnosis is scientific. It is not supernatural, nor of the occult, but purely a manifestation of the power of the human mind. Fallacy: Weak-willed persons make the best subjects Fact: The best subjects are intelligent, willful persons who have the ability to concentrate. Fallacy: Only a small percentage of the people can be hypnotized. Fact: Almost anyone can be hypnotized. It is a matter of degree. Some people do make better subjects than others. The people who cannot be hypnotized are babies, the insane or the intoxicated or persons ï¿½highï¿½ on drugs. Fallacy: The hypnotist dominates the subject. Fact: There is no domination or submission in hypnosis. The hypnotist actually helps the subject express their own latent abilities. For example; a person unaccustomed to public speaking can confidently speak to an audience of thousands. Fallacy: A person can be hypnotized against their will. Fact: A person must consent to be hypnotized. A person cannot be hypnotized against their will. Fallacy: The hypnotist has absolute control over the persons mind. Fact: This is the most absurd of all fallacies involving hypnosis. No hypnotist can make anyone do anything that is against their principles or morals. Hypnosis is not an anesthetic that renders a person helpless; it is a means of releasing or intensifying their own personal powers and abilities. Fallacy: Hypnotherapy requires a deep trance state Fact: 87% of all therapeutic uses can be done in a light or medium state of hypnosis. Fallacy: A subject may not ï¿½wake upï¿½ from hypnosis. Fact: There is not the slightest danger of this happening. The subject left to him/her self will fall into a natural sleep and then ï¿½awakenï¿½, or just awaken when the hypnotist stops talking. Fallacy: hypnosis is dangerous. Fact: Hypnosis is perfectly safe when practiced by a trained and experienced practitioner. As an analogy, an automobile is not inherently dangerous unless driven by an incompetent person Fallacy: A subject knows nothing of what happened during hypnosis. Fact: A subject in a light or medium state of hypnosis is fully aware of what happened when they ï¿½awakenï¿½. In a deep state some subjects may have amnesia. Fallacy: Orthodox medicine condemns hypnosis. Fact: The American, British and Canadian Medical Societies all accept the therapeutic value of hypnosis. Then JB there is IBS and this thread which helps explain the science behind how HT is effective for IBS. http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get _topic&f=1&t=025521LML, I am glad god answered your call for help.


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## *Luna* (Nov 19, 2001)

I'm so glad this thread is here and bringing up so much good information and minimizing misconceptions







LTL, I appreciated your message a lot. I read a comment in another forum that someone would not do hypnosis, because she was a Christian and it was against her faith. I asked why, because I was very curious, but I don't think it was answered. (Maybe I should try to find that thread again to make sure I didn't miss it.) I couldn't figure out what was contrary to Christian faith about it.I'm only up to tape 4, and haven't heard the whole thing consciously yet. The knee, the starlight, OK, but I forget the rest







The tapes help me fall asleep...So, I don't remember any crystal or special friend...I don't know if I haven't heard it yet, or just don't remember.I went to a Catholic school, and on a class retreat a teacher (who was a pretty New-Agey Catholic) led us in meditation/visualization exercises...and to me the hypnotherapy tapes are fairly similar to those. I guess there's more going on subconsciously with hypno, but on a conscious level, it seems like a relaxation and visualization exercise to me.Anyhow, seems good so far (about 1/3 done) so I'll just keep listening!


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## jb2 (Jan 6, 2002)

Dear All.Many thanks for all of this valuable info and your helpful comments.I am currently reading as much as I can from all of the sites / links that have been suggested.This has got me thinking about clinical trials which are carried out for new drugs and double blind crossover studies.It's interesting that a percentage of patients who are treated on placebos also have their symptoms releived in these studies as well as the patients on the active drug therapy.This can only be mind over matter or whatever the medical term is for this which perhaps is in some way related to clinical hypnosis (cause and effect.) I don't know, just idle thoughts on this Thursday night.If I'm talking rubbish please ignore me.Have a symptom free day.


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

JB, there is a really high placebo responce in IBS in the 60 to 80 percent range, in part because IBS is a brain gut problem. It has a higher placebo then say IBD.However, hypnosis is not a placebo. People continue to get better after the treatment for one, because they have science behind some of why its working and because the placebo effect wears off for some treatments. So some people would say there helping and in the end they don't in part because of the placebo effect.On the placebo front it should not be overlooked and actually can be used as a good thing sometimes.They just did a new study on the placebo. http://www.ibsgroup.org/cgi-local/ubbcgi/u...f=1&t=025415&p=


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Jb, this is an important part of the whole picture you should read. http://www.ahealthyme.com/topic/mindbodygu...AETVTWCYSYZSFEQ This is also a good one to read on HT in its versatility and clinical applications in the hospital setting. http://www.triroc.com/sunnen/topics/hypnohosp.htm


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## jb2 (Jan 6, 2002)

EricThank you very much for the info'especiallly interesting the article by Chris Woolston.The more I look at this the more sense it's begining to make.I see from some other posts that people have remained symtom free for various lengths of time.Of the ones who have failed the programme have any studies been carried out as to the reasons why?I imagine for instance that some failures are due to non compliance by the individual as is documented with drug therapies. Also,what is the longest time that a patient has remained completely symptom and drug free after completing the 100 day course.? I include all other treatments when using the word drugs, herbs for example.LTLMany thanks for your reply and I can assure you that I am giving this to the Lord for His guidance.Kindest regards.


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## cookies4marilyn (Jun 30, 2000)

Hi jb2, just to give you the quick answer..Mike has done clinicial trials for his program, and has these statistics from his own studies, but suffice it to say, there are persons in every category, of course, but for total population, a higher percentage of those completing the program have had significant reduction in symptoms over conventional medical therapy treatment (medications) either with hypnotherpay by itself or in conjunction with medical treatments. Those not responding to the program would either be non-complient with the program as you state, or present with co-morbid conditions, either physical or emotional, that need to be addressed prior to or in addition to the IBS itself. (It may be noted that there usually is in fact some response by way of improvement, just the degree of improvement is less due to these factors.) Of course, an audio program cannot address serious medical conditions or concerns for those individuals dealing with other factors that are precipitating or aggrevate IBS symptomology. These factors include emotional or physical abuse and/or trauma, another comorbid physical condition, such as IBD (Inflammatory Bowel Disorders: Chrons,etc.,) or other physical conditions, etc. Mike has stressed that only after a medical physician has clinically diagnosed the condition as IBS, should the individual consider his program. Sometimes, the hypnotherapy deals with more prominant conditions in the patient's life, then later deals with the IBS symptoms; for example, when I personally started the program, I just had surgery, newly divorced, and had two other comorbid conditions unknown to me at the time (gall bladder, conjoined ovaries), but I had been positively diagnosed with IBS for several years. The hypnotherapy program dealt first with my other issues, and then addressed the IBS. This is due to the fact that the subconscious mind knows instinctively what needs addressing first.In regards to the longest time an individual has remained symptom free, this of course is dependent upon those individuals coming forward to verify this. However, in the study, there was a three-year follow-up and results showed not only stabalized improvement and/or symptom elimination for the majority of patients, but ongoing continued improvement during the course of the three years after completion of the program. For individuals here on the BB, there are many who did the program two years ago or more and are still maintaining their level of improvement. To declare a number of those who are completely symptom and drug free, we would have to do a survey of the BB, which just isn't feasible. There are many links to various formal studies of clinical hypnotherapy for the successful treatment of IBS; Eric has posted those on this site and also on the Research forum.For some former individuals on the BB, once they have found relief, many times they do not come back to the BB after a while, because they now consider themselves IBS free, and no longer need the support given here.In his own private practice, Mike is constantly doing clinical trials, and has found his success rate of doing in-person clinical hypnotherapy is only 3% better than that of the improvement rate for those doing the recorded IBS Audio Program. The processes he uses are the same, and in having over 2000 patients with this condition, he has a log of symptoms, treatment techniques, etc. that has proven the test of time. The gastroenterologists in his medical center approached him for the refractory IBS patients; that is those not responding to conventional medical treatements at only a 2% success rate. Mike's success rate remained not just stable, but continued to improve as the processes he now uses were fine tuned.To ever say that everyone is totally in remission, every time, is irresponsible. We only know what people report here as far as the BB is concerned. I once worked in a healh facility, and know that there is always every scenario, but from both Mike's studies, and the studies carried out by UNC, etc. there is certainly enough data to show that the improvements, at every level, ongoing and maintained, have exceeded those of conventional treatments tried by those same patients/individuals in most cases.Hope this helped a bit, for more data, so a search, or I am sure Eric will give you the correct links. Also, on the spiritual realm, my friend who is a chaplain (degree in theology and spiritual person as well) in a Christian affiliated hospital says they use hypnotherapy and guided imagery in their hospice environment to ease chronic pain, and also aid in the dying process. Be well... take care.


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## *Luna* (Nov 19, 2001)

When I was thinking about buying the tapes, I posted a thread in the IBS forum asking if the tapes had ever NOT worked for anyone. It seemed like the only people they didn't work for were the ones who stopped listening or couldn't stay close to the listening schedule. It seemed that everyone who committted to listening to them had good results.If you want to do a search for that thread, just try typing in keyword "tapes" and search the IBS forum, and look for a thread by atp. The thread was started in November, I think, and so you shouldn't need to search the archives.


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## LTL (Dec 18, 2001)

Hi Luna,I also would be interested in knowing why someone would think that hypnosis is not acceptable to Christians.There are people who will not accept blood transfusions, or use electric lights, or other things and claim that it is based on their Christian religion. I think that those people are confused by their religious leaders instead of studying the Bible for themselves, and learning what God really wants for us.There is not one single thing that God prohibits us from doing, except for things that are ultimately bad for us.Anyway, if the person that you mentioned answers you, I'd be interested in seeing their reasoning.







(But I betcha they can't produce scriptural support for their position!!







)Thanks,LTL


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## jb2 (Jan 6, 2002)

A big thank you to you all .Your comments have been very useful and have helped me to make up my mind after a lot of thought, research, and prayer for about a week now.I have ordered the programme as I feel this is right and in the long term I want to be drug free and get back to normal although I must say that I forget what normal is like.You folk on this thread are special people and thank you again.Any advice as I start on the programme would be appreciated.Is there any way that I can speed this up to less time than 100 days as I want to get well pronto.Many thanks


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## cookies4marilyn (Jun 30, 2000)

Hi jb2...Congrats on getting the program... all of us here will support and help each other and you..As far as "speeding up" the program, just take it as it's scehuled. Some of the folks here have had symptom reduction within a week, others not until after completion. Everyone is different, but most everyone does get relief. Try not to be too impatient, I know it's hard, because I am the same way, but if you look at how long you have had IBS, and what you did 100 days ago for it, just think that 100 days from now, you will be better than that! Hang in there, and keep us posted. Take care!


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## jb2 (Jan 6, 2002)

Cookie MarilynMany thanks for your positive reply, the part about the 100 days you put well hadn't thought of looking at it like that before.I'm ready with my tape player and earphones. Ready to get hooked up and will listen when in bed at the end of the day seems to be what a few people here do.I have learnt so much already from other peoples postings about their experiences.Many thanks to you all here's hoping (fingers crossed)Will let you know how I get on!From JB2 in Sussex.


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

JB, glad your getting started. Remember you don't have to work at it in anyway just listen. Please let us know how you do as you progress. Change can take time in some people, so as Marilyn put quite well just be patient and enjoy listening.


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## *Luna* (Nov 19, 2001)

Hi JB... it's so amazing how your opinion of the tapes turned around! It makes me smile







I always thought it was such a bandwagon, with all the people who advocate the tapes. But you know what? I understand why!I'm on day 49 or 50, and the time has gone by quickly.I've been having a rough time lately with a flu bug, but overall, the tapes have made a big difference for me, it seems!


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## jb2 (Jan 6, 2002)

Luna.Don't remind me, I feel a right nit after re reading my posts never mind eh!I remembered that when I first had this lurgy about 12 years ago my doctor sent me to Harley Street in London to see a top notch psychiatrist and after about three sessions with him I did feel better but it didn't last, from then on I managed my condition by taking just 1 lomotil tablet per day for about ten years and was 99% o.k.At the start of 2001 my symptoms suddenly changed for the worst, gut rot and Di and there was no reason for this nothing happening on an emotional level or anything else just wham bam out of the blue. I still cannot figure this one out even today so I thought I will see if there is any info on this condition on the internet and found this and various other sites.Partly my change in thinking was due to various people on this BB. I read most of the posts by Marilyn and Norb amongst others after doing a search on their names and posts and was also encouraged by many of the comments here. So it has been a combination of things and people that has taken me on to this step. I won't go on as to what else happened what other products I have tried last year without success etc because it's boring to anyone else apart from me that is.I am very interested to know how you are doing on the tapes Luna please keep posting.I am still waiting for the tapes to turn up it is now Friday morning 10.30.I hope and pray that this will be the answer because I am also thinking what if this dosnt work I've got no where else to turn still I will adopt a positive mental attitude and that will go a long way to helping with the tapes. I hope that you have a quick recovery from your flu lurgy, that on its own can make you feel manky. I think that the herb Echinacea helps with colds and flu? don't know if you are into that sort of thing just a thought.Just looked out the window and its started to rain but I have declared that Friday is my smile day regardless of how I am feeling.Take care and thanks for caring.


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## cookies4marilyn (Jun 30, 2000)

Hi jb... let us know when you get the tapes, and all of us here on the BB will support you all the way! Not many therapies can say that... you can even email Mike with any concerns you may have! I can't even do that with my doctor sometimes!







Your reasons for trying the tapes are the same as mine, and most people... they become desparate at the lack of successful treatments in the orthodox medical arena. For myself, I had been on every antispasmotic and anticholoergenic (I know I spelled that wrong...) RX and OTC, in addition to surgeries... And so have many of the people here on the BB. Your comment: ...."I am also thinking what if this dosnt work I've got no where else to turn still I will adopt a positive mental attitude" is where most of us have been. Mike's patients were all the gastroenterologists' rejects; they had no where else to turn! Some of us were most despairing (ME!) and so sick of being sick... "fed up" is what Mike said his patients would tell him....so we can well empathize.And... where I live, we are looking at a foot or more of snow!!!







So hang in there, keep us posted, and we are all here to support and care. ... and God bless!


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