# what will make me feel drunk?



## 14448

When I go out of my flat I feel v.anxious, even just to walk up the street. My whole body goes tight, I sweat, and everything seems extra loud and surreal. I feel like everyone is staring at me and don't feel safe till I get home.The only thing that makes me feel normal is to drink 2 or 3 shots of vodka, then the world falls back into place and I can laugh at myself. I know it's not good, but sometimes it's the only way I can go out.Does anyone know of a med that makes you feel 'drunk' without the risks of alcohol? I'm already taking propranalol and diazepam.


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## 18255

I really can identify with you Sukie, I depend on alcohol when I have to deal with social situations, which as you say relaxes the mind which in turn relaxes the body. In fact I said as much this week to my psychologist and he said at this point in time not to beat myself up about it and through time with his help I should be able to handle these stressful situations better.Is the diazepam not some sort of relaxent then, excuse me if I'm way off.Take care Sukie, you sound really down at the moment


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## 20680

I sympathise, but I think the alcohol would be habit forming and may become a problem.I had these problems, but my treatment with a low doze of Citalopram and Diazepam when necessary seems to be helping.


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## 14416

As you know, Diazepam is an anti-anxiety medicine (benzodiazepine). What I'm thinking is that if you're still having these problems with anxiety and the like, that your medicines might not be working properly. That could be because they simply aren't working, or it could be because your dose isn't appropriate (too low). What dose of valium are you on (diazepam)?If you are on a high enough dose of the diazepam, perhaps you should think about switching to another benzodiazepine? Maybe Xanax, Ativan, or Klonopin would suit your needs better?Have you ever thought about an anti-depressant? They _can_ work well for anxiety.


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## eric

It sounds like you might be having panic attacks and high anxiety. These are treatable and a person does not have to live this way.Don't drink and take Valium. Medications are one answer, but they shouldn't be a long term solution by themselves for this, you need to find out how to do relaxation techniques and other methods that are used to treat panick attacks and anxiety that are also very effective, a lot of times even more effective along with meds.CBT is one of the methods for these kinds of disorders and it has been shown to be as effective sometimes as the meds and its totally safe.It can also greatly help IBS. Long term valium use can mess up a persons liver."There is an old saying that if you give a child a fish, you feed that child for a day, but if you teach a child to fish, they are fed for a lifetime. In accordance with this old proverb, Cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) is a form of psychotherapy that strives to actively teach people skills and strategies that they can use to help themselves feel better"http://www.ibshealth.com/ibstreatments.htmAre you seeing a therapist? Who prescibed the drugs to you?


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## eric

You should read thishttp://www.time.com/time/europe/magazine/2...iety/story.html


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## 14416

If you're worried about long-term use and the liver.. then there is always Ativan, which is safe on the liver.Also, some people require long-term use of these meds to function. Diabetics often need insulin to function. It's the same for anxiety sufferers. Sometimes, we/they need these types of meds to function and live our lives normally.I've tried CBT and it did not work for me, at all actually. I would still recommend someone else try it, but it's not for everyone, just as benzos aren't for everyone for long-term use (but are for some-like me who has never had a problem with them).


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## eric

I am not knocking meds so you know, but meds don't address a lot of issues that contribute to fears, worry and emotional states and thoughts that contribute to the disorders. You can't be relaxed and anxious at the same time for one.I do realize for sure that some people need meds long term, but almost any professional I believe would question only meds.How many cbt therapists did you see grant? Have you tried some of the other methods?I also have anxiety issues and have had occasional panick attacks, calming the mind body down can make a substantial difference.Learning about what is happening is also important I believe.


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## Guest

THANK YOU GRANT - no valium isn't always the answer but I think its over-demonised on this board. I'm slowly, very slowly coming off valium (was initially on 3 x 2mg per day and am now taking 2mg every other day) - coupled with my anti-d it saved my life and got me back with my family etc etc so you need to work closely with your GP. CBT is NOT for everyone and trouble is, around here anyway (East Cheshire) its very, very hard to come by and then only privately unless you are prepared to wait for about 10 months (well, I'd have been dead by that time!!).As to drinking - I usually have one small glass of red wine in the evening and yes, I do have a small dose of valium - I think we have to keep a sence of proportion. None of us, in an ideal world would want to be on long term meds but I take a pragmatic view - the alternative (for me at the moment) is being depressed so drugs for now!!!!Sue


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## eric

Again, I am not opposed to drugs.I was on valium for two years for IBS.Over here in the states there is the famous case of Karen Ann Quinlan who took one valium and a glass of champagne."Karen Ann Quinlan"Karen Ann Quinlan was the first modern icon of the right-to-die debate. The 21-year-old Quinlan collapsed at a party after swallowing alcohol and the tranquilizer Valium on 14 April 1975. Doctors saved her life, but she suffered brain damage and lapsed into a "persistent vegetative state." Her family waged a much-publicized legal battle for the right to remove her life support machinery. They succeeded, but in a final twist, Quinlan kept breathing after the respirator was unplugged. She remained in a coma for almost 10 years in a New Jersey nursing home until her 1985 death. "Also there are different kinds of anxiety disorders, stress disorders and depression.There are also different levels, mild, moderate and severe and different levels of intervention that might be required. Somewhat actually like IBS.Its also important I believe to address what factors in your life contribute to say depression. Many things life money problems or relationship problems or all kinds of things can contribute. Taking meds and ignoring the other issues or drinking doesn't address the life issues that can contribute and make things worse.The body works chemically and electrically. Positive thoughts and emotions create positive chemical and electrical changes in the body and negative ones cause negative chemical and electrical changes in the body and then symptoms.In moderate and severe problems meds are usally needed to get the person back on tract and thinking clearly and then other effective talk therapies can then help.A big one though is these things can be treated and there are many ways to treat people.Meds are effective, and they are helping the chemistry aspect and symptoms, but maynot be working on certain aspects in people's lives of why they might be anxious depressed or stressed out. Is there something in their lifes contributing. Also understanding the neurobiology of the physical responce can be very helpful in many ways. Self-help BrochuresUnderstanding and Treating Anxietyhttp://www.couns.uiuc.edu/Brochures/anxiety.htmI would also say in moderate to severe issues that continue long term its very important not to treat it just by yourself and can help and intervention from professionals.


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## 14448

Thanks for your advice and support everyone







I agree that a combination of meds and CBT is best treatment, but unfortunately CBT is not available in my area and GP says she cannot refer me to psychiatrist without a 'loophole'. My anxiety disorder stems from childhood and I'm seeing a counseller, so hopefully that will help.My friend, a psychiatrist from UAE visited UK a few weeks ago and suggested I had social anxiety. He gave me some clonaezepam tablets (which apparently you can buy over counter in Middle East)and told me to see GP. The clonaezepam seemed to work, but unfortunately GP says she can't prescribe them as they are not licenced for anxiety in her MIMMS book! She prescribed me 10 tablets of 1mg diazepam but said just to use them for emergencies.I've booked another appointment to ask about ativan and the other benzodiazepines. Hopefully she'll understand that my alternative to meds is to become alcoholic or a hermit!


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## eric

Here is some info on scocial anxietyhttp://health.yahoo.com/ency/healthwise/hw177276The fight or flight responce is very important in these conditions and IBS."Everyone who experiences panic and anxiety, feels the effects of the the 'Fight' and Flight' response. The fight and flight response is a natural response to danger in humans and in animals. When the fight and flight response is activated, hormones are released through the body to enable us to either fight the dangerous situation or to run from it. The effects of the fight and flight response include an increase in our heart rate to pump blood faster to the brain, lungs and muscles. We may begin to breathe quickly to increase our oxygen levels, our muscle tense and we can begin to perspire.Many people don't realise that the way they think when they have an anxiety disorder, turns on the 'fight and flight' response. Our bodies can't tell the difference between the thoughts, 'what if I have a panic attack, what if I make a fool of myself, why am I feeling like this, why is this happening to me, what if the doctor has made a mistake etc etc'.... and the thought :'Here comes a truck at 100 kms an hour and it has no brakes. It is heading straight for me!' The way we think when we have an anxiety disorder, the 'what ifs' etc, keep turning on the fight and flight response and around and around we go."http://www.panicattacks.com.au/anxdis/symp.html


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## Gutguy22

> quote:Originally posted by eric: Long term valium use can mess up a persons liver.


Eric, I've never seen a study or data backing this idea up beyond the very unusual case, and even then not in relation to "long term" use. Please post your evidence for this conclusion. Even the extreme anti-benzo crowd usually doesn't claim liver damage.from http://www.usagiedu.com/articles/html/psy/psy.pdf"Benzodiazepines, such as chlordiazepoxide, diazepam, and flurazepam, have very low hepatotoxic potential, with only case reports in the literature, usually with a cholestatic pattern."I'd be more worried about tylenol or antidepressents. Benzos have been around for forty or fifty years, with many people taking them for many, many years. Where are all the liver damage cases?


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## Gutguy22

Be careful drinking if you're taking valium, although the use of the Karen Ann Quinlan case was a little over-the-top and left out stuff like (from wikipedia):"In April 1975, Quinlan went on a radical diet, reportedly in order to fit into a dress that she had bought. On April 15, having eaten nothing but a few slices of bread over a period of roughly 48 hours, she attended a party at a friend's house..."It wasn't like she was responsibly taking valium long-term and sat down for a drink and went brain dead. Along with the diet, she apparently had other drugs in her system as well. So be careful but some realism may be needed here as well.


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## Guest

Oh jaysus thank you Gutguy - I'm now on alternative 2mg doses of valium (every other evening) and enjoy a glass of red wine (I might add with my psychiatrist and the GP's OK) and started to panic that I'd end up a veggie!!All things in moderation I reckon.Sue


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## 14416

Gutguy, I'm glad you cleared the air about Quinlan... Yeah, she was NOT taking them as prescribed and didn't just sit down for one glass red of win and go into a vegetative state-there were a LOT of other variables.I do have to agree with the you, too, that benzos are relatively safe on the liver. There haven't been any widely reported studies stating a huge risk with their use, even long term. Like you said, acetametaphine is one of them that has been shown to cause liver damage with long term use. 4,000mg a day for a period of longer than 2 weeks can start to cause liver damage. Even some people who take what 'they' recommend staying at if you are taking it long term (2,000mg per day), still have reported liver damage.Ativan isn't processed through the liver, so it would be safer in that regard, if the patient is worried.Since you only have 10 valium pills, I wouldn't worry! I was taking 90 Xanax a month, or 3x a day at 1.5-2.5mg. I'm fine... and I do not take them right now at all, and had no trouble getting off of them.


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## eric

I was posting that it can happen and there are a lot of variables in people. Especially not eating in IBS for one. Karen didn't know she would go into a coma!Drinking and taking valium is NOT a good idea, that was all I was pointing out. Drinking and depression is not a good idea either.As for a persons liver and valium, that was something my doctor told me. I would imagine also if a person drinks often and takes valium it may be more of a problem on the liver.I took valium for two years, but did not drink on them. That may just be me. http://66.218.69.11/search/cache?p=valium+...&icp=1&.intl=usI think respecting drugs and contradictions and mechanisms are important.


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## 14416

> quote:I think respecting drugs and contradictions and mechanisms are important.


I definitely agree with that statement.I wouldn't advise drinking on valium or any other benzo. I don't drink at all, my good ol' gut just can't handle it. You can discuss the risks with your doctor. A glass of red wine at dinner is a lot different than 5 beers consecutively while watching the NBA finals.Eric, by chance, do you still have those pictures/images of the gut in a normal person after eating, and then the gut of someone with IBS after eating. I wanted to show my father. I'm trying to explain to him why it's important to me that I eat smaller meals (5-6) throughout the day. I just feel better... but I wanted to show him why I wouldn't want to eat a huge dinner with the family and enjoy a small serving of chicken with a 1/2 of cup of rice instead, for example.


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## eric

Sure do GrantThis has to do with an altered gastrocolonic responce in IBSThis is the sigmoid colon 15 minutes after eating in a normal person and an IBSers, probaly a d predominate or alternating, but might be c also.














I have a paper on this also I will find for you, I am at work at the moment.


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## 14416

Thank you very much Eric- I really appreciate it.You are much better at the medical reasoning behind what you say- I just kind of speak from experience when it comes to IBS.Whenever you find that paper is excellent. I'm excited to print these off and show him. It will help tremendously, and maybe I won't have to feel so bad about turning down big meals with the family! LOL.


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## eric

Grant, how long have you had IBS?This is one of the papers.An exaggerated sensory component of the gastrocolonic response in patients with irritable bowel syndromehttp://gut.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/48/1/20Basically the "act of eating." The stomach signals down to the lower intestines food is on the way and to expel to make room, but in IBS the sigmoid colon over reacts.The amount of calories and fats especially stimulate a bigger responce.


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## 14416

Hey Eric, thanks very much for the paper! I can't wait to start reading it- I thought I'd respond to your question first.I've had IBS for probably about 10-12 years; I've been officially diagnosed by a GI for hmm... I want to say about 6-7 years.Is the response to eating the same response you get when you leave the house and you didn't have to use the bathroom when you were actually at your house, but as soon as you get 2 minutes from your house you feel like you have to go.. or I guess is it a 'similar' response?


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## eric

Grant that is a different issue, but since you asked and I was going to mention it here, I will post about it.Its connected to some of the same mechansims as the panick attacks.


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## eric

Grant, how much do you know about the "brain in the gut" or the enteric nervous system?


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## 14416

Not much, to tell you the truth







Only that.. I'll be sitting at home on my computer, and not have to use the bathroom. I then get in the car to go to a job interview, and when I get out of my neighborhood I suddenly have to go to the bathroom. It's not just a feeling, I actually have to go. I was really hoping CBT would help that- but it didn't. I was only able to afford to see one person because of insurance reasons.Is this something biofeedback could help?


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## eric

Okay, Let me explain a few things here that can really help just by knowing about it. First there is a "brain in the gut" called the enteric nervous sytem.Read this whole article"Complex and Hidden Brain in Gut Makes Bellyaches and ButterfliesEver wonder why people get "butterflies" in the stomach before going on stage ? Or why an impending job interview can cause an attack of intestinal cramps ? And why antidepressants targeted for the brain cause nausea or abdominal upset in millions of people who take such drugs ? The reason for these common experiences, scientists say, is that the body has two brains - the familiar one encased in the skull and a lesser known but vitally important one found in the human gut Like Siamese twins, the two brains are interconnected ; when one gets upset, the other does, too. The gut's brain, known as the enteric nervous system, is located in sheaths of tissue lining the oesophagus, stomach, small intestine and colon. Considered a single entity, it is a network of neurons, neurotransmitters and proteins that zap messages between neurons, support cells like those found m the brain proper and a complex circuitry that enables it to act independently, learn, remember and, as the saying goes, produce gut feelings."http://aikidoaus.com.au/dojo/docs/2nd_braina.htmThen I will show you some important aspects to chronic anxiety, the fight or flight responce, cells connected to all this in the gut and it making you have to go, when you have to get into a car or travel or set the reponce off.


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## 14416

Hey I really appreciate that you're taking the time to do this.I hope that I won't be the only one that benefits from this.Give me a little bit of time to read the paper... just got a new laptop in the mail and I want to set this baby up. I'll respond when I've read it all.


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## Kathleen M.

To go back to the acetaminophen--and drug interaction in general--issue (we studied this in my toxicology class) it is one where drinking or not makes a big difference.One of this issues with this combo (and a lot of the other drug interaction combos) is that your liver makes enzymes to get stuff out of your body. It doesn't make enzymes it doesn't need. Sometimes the enzymes can work on more than one thing (P450 is the class if you want to be techinical about it). You make more of one of the P450's when you drink than when you don't. The more you drink, the more you make. This enzyme also can convert acetaminophen to a toxic metabolite. At low levels your liver just cleans it up no problem (there is always a little bit, but usually a small amount that is easily handled), but if you have way too much of it, then the liver can't clean it up and then you get liver damage. This is why alcoholics can't have as much acetaminophen than other people.This is the mechanism behind a lot of drug interactions. One drug ups the amount of one enzyme which changes the metabolism of the other drug. So you may get too much or too little of a drug even when there isn't a toxic metabolite issue. Too much may increase side effects or cause lethal effects in some cases, too little means that you don't get an effective dose.With Benzo's and alcohol the problem is more one of synergy than liver issues. A lot of central nervous system depressants show this (including stuff that people get into when they work with solvents). They interact so that instead of seeing a 1+1+1=3 reaction you get a 1+1+1=12 type of situation.So you don't get just the effects of one added to the other one, you get a reaction as if you took a lot more of one or all or them when you take them in combination. In factories this may mean that people exposed to multiple solvents have to be exposed to much less than they would from a single solvent. This is why the drinking on some medications is so dangerous. You think you are only going to have a couple, but your inhibitions/judgement goes away after a couple of drinks rather than several drinks and the lethal dose of alcohol is a few drinks rather than many drinks. Unfortunately by the time you might notice you are in trouble it is way too late. A lot of people just pass out after a number of drinks that normally wouldn't kill anyone, but die because with the other drugs in the system it is as if they drank 2 or 3 or more times the amount they really drank.K.


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## eric

Thanks for posting that Kathleen, very informative.Grant just let me know, I am pretty sure you will appreciate the information. It can be really helpful and I hope others can benefit from it also.


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## 17347

No, no, no! Please don't start using benzo drugs! They only provide temporary symptom relief, don't solve the problem and cause depression, loss of libido, dependence, addiction and ultimately worse anxiety in the long run since the body quickly develops a tolerance and you lose all the beneficial effects but can't stop taking them because you then get withdrawal symptoms, which includes...yes you guessed it...anxiety! The next thing you know your GP will be prescribing you antidepressant drugs and then you're really in trouble! And drinking alcohol also only provides temporary fix as it depletes neurotransmitters the influence mood and messes with your hormone levels, basically worsening the problem in the long run as well as causing depression and potential dependence even with occasional use :Your anxiety is caused by an imbalance in neurotransmitter brain chemistry - your levels of stimulatory neurotransmitters, such as glutamate may be too high, and calming neurotransmitters such as GABA too low, in addition to low levels of mood influencing neurotransmitters such as serotonin - Solve the problem and your anxiety will go away PERMANENTLY, drugs only provide symptom control and in the long run may worsen the whole problem - The solution is as follows: 1) Adapton (Garum armoricum extract) - Natural extract that is precursor to endorphins and potent, natural anti-anxiety, mood enhancing, neurotransmitter rebalancing effect with no side effects! Take 2 - 4 capsules daily 2) L-Tryptophan 1,500mg daily (best taken on empty stomach with juice and away from protein) This is converted by the body into serotonin (also you can take L-5HTP but this can cause stomach upset in some individuals) 3) 1 x vitamin B complex capsule 1 - 2 times daily (essential for everything but specifically for manufacture of neurotransmitters by the body) --- OTHERS that you might find useful (1 - 3 listed above are the primary ones you should try) are: 4) L-Theanine 100 - 200 mg 2 - 3 times daily (raises GABA levels in the brain which produces same calming effect induced by alcohol) 5) Kava Kava liquid extract â€" 10 drops 1 â€" 3 times daily â€" similar anti-anxiety effect as benzos but can be used everyday without losing its effect or risk of dependence/addiction 6) Taurine 750mg 1 â€" 3 times daily 7) Glycine 500mg 1 â€" 3 times daily, which are calming aminos and 6) L-Glutamine 500mg 1 â€" 3 times daily, which your body needs to manufacturing GABA the primary calming anti-anxiety neurotransmitter --- by the way taking GABA orally doesnâ€™t work since does not cross the blood brain barrierAll the best N P.S. You might have guessed I am a scientist and nutritionist









> quote:Originally posted by Sukie:Thanks for your advice and support everyone
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> 
> I agree that a combination of meds and CBT is best treatment, but unfortunately CBT is not available in my area and GP says she cannot refer me to psychiatrist without a 'loophole'. My anxiety disorder stems from childhood and I'm seeing a counseller, so hopefully that will help.My friend, a psychiatrist from UAE visited UK a few weeks ago and suggested I had social anxiety. He gave me some clonaezepam tablets (which apparently you can buy over counter in Middle East)and told me to see GP. The clonaezepam seemed to work, but unfortunately GP says she can't prescribe them as they are not licenced for anxiety in her MIMMS book! She prescribed me 10 tablets of 1mg diazepam but said just to use them for emergencies.I've booked another appointment to ask about ativan and the other benzodiazepines. Hopefully she'll understand that my alternative to meds is to become alcoholic or a hermit!


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## Gutguy22

That's ridiculous. Many people find benzos to be a lifesaver. I think many doctors would say taking a benzo is safer than dumping all that other stuff into your body. For example one could argue that you're more likely to get liver damage from Kava than long term benzo use, and some countries have even banned kava.Benzos do not always cause depression (in fact there's evidence of some antidepressent effects with say xanax for example), loss of libido, etc. Tolerance does not always mean you lose all beneficial effects as many long term benzo users can attest to.


> quote: Your anxiety is caused by an imbalance in neurotransmitter brain chemistry


 Yeah, guess what benzos act on... GABA receptors!


> quote:drugs only provide symptom control and in the long run may worsen the whole problem


define the term drug.


> quote:No, no, no! Please don't start using benzo drugs! They only provide temporary symptom relief, don't solve the problem and cause depression, loss of libido, dependence, addiction and ultimately worse anxiety in the long run since the body quickly develops a tolerance and you lose all the beneficial effects but can't stop taking them because you then get withdrawal symptoms, which includes...yes you guessed it...anxiety! The next thing you know your GP will be prescribing you antidepressant drugs and then you're really in trouble!


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## 14416

Hey Eric, I'm ready for the information whenever you have time.Gutguy, I think you said it pretty well. I feel the same way.Benzos do not "cause" addiction. I think you have the MEDICAL term, dependence and the loose term "addiction" confused.Just because you are dependent doesn't mean you are "addicted".. they are completely different terms.. and the meds don't stop working when you become dependent on them; on the contrary, they will often continue to work at the same dose for very very very very very very long periods of time.


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## eric

Okay grant, this will take a little time, but as I go you will see the connections to some very important things, both in regards to anxiety and even emotions and to IBS. At first it might seem a little complicated but it gets easier to understand as you go and its really worth it. I will also do my best to try and keep it simple as possible, however they are still complex systems.So you read the post on the enteric nervous system and the "brain in the gut."Okay the central nervous system the "brain and the spinal cord" is connected to the the Autonomic Nervous System. This system controls heartbeat, breathing and digestion. You don't have to conciously think about making your heart beat or breathing or digestion, they happen automatically. "The ANS regulates: Muscles in the skin (around hair follicles; smooth muscle) around blood vessels (smooth muscle) in the eye (the iris; smooth muscle) in the stomach, intestines and bladder (smooth muscle) of the heart (cardiac muscle) Glands The The Autonomic Nervous System or ANS is broken down into three parts.The ANS is divided into three parts:The sympathetic nervous system The parasympathetic nervous system The enteric nervous system."http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/auto.htmlThe above link helps explain some things I will go into more detail here soon. I found it personally since it was for kids, easier to read and understand. LOL







The last being the enteric nervous system or brain in the gut.However the other two are going to be important in this discussion and in IBS.But this point will be important."The ANS is most important in two situations:In emergencies that cause stress and require us to"fight" or take "flight" (run away) andIn nonemergencies that allow us to "rest" and "digest.""In the above link read about the parasympathetic and sympathetic nervous systems and what they do and how they respond.I will post again, but that is a good start to absorb first.


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## 14448

Thanks for the information Nige, especially it was helpful to have the dosages. I'm interested in alternative meds + herbalism and am planning to try the Adaption, Tryprophan and Kava-Kava to start. I agree with Gutguy that benzos are a lifesaver, but my anxiety is constant and I cannot take benzos every day because GP won't prescribe them. Also I am worried about addiction and developing tolerance. Fingers crossed!


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## eric

They are working on a new valium that is non additive for the future. Just fyiSukie, this was a question about taking 5htp for IBS, which doesn't actually help IBS perse, because its not the amount of serotonin in the body but its regulation in the body. To much 5htp in the central nervous system can actually increase anxiety."The Trusted Source..Harold J. DeMonaco, M.S.Harold J. DeMonaco, M.S., is senior analyst, Innovative Diagnostics and Therapeutics, and the chair of the Human Research Committee at the Massachusetts General Hospital. He is author of over 20 publications in the pharmacy and medical literature and routinely reviews manuscript submissions for eight medical journals...June 19, 2001.A:Irritable bowel syndrome is now recognized as a disorder of serotonin activity. Serotonin is a neurotransmitter in the brain that regulates sleep, mood (depression, anxiety), aggression, appetite, temperature, sexual behavior and pain sensation. Serotonin also acts as a neurotransmitter in the gastrointestinal tract.Excessive serotonin activity in the gastrointestinal system (enteric nervous system) is thought to cause the diarrhea of irritable-bowel syndrome. The enteric nervous system detects bowel distension (expansion) on the basis of pressure-sensitive cells in the bowel lumen (opening). Once activated, these pressure-sensitive cells promote the release of serotonin, which in turn promotes both secretory function and peristaltic function (the contractions of the intestines that force the contents outward). At least four serotonergic receptors have been identified to be participants in the secretory and peristaltic response.Patients with diarrhea-predominant IBS may have higher levels of serotonin after eating than do people without the disorder. This recognition led to the development of the first drug used specifically to treat diarrheal symptoms of IBS, alosetron (also known as Lotronex). Alosetron blocked the specific serotonin receptors responsible for recognizing bowel distention. In doing so, it blocked the effects of serotonin and reduced both bowel secretions and peristalsis. Constipation was the most common side effect seen. (Note: Alosetron was removed from the market by the manufacturer after repeated reports of a dangerous condition known as ischemic colitis became known.) Tegaserod (Zelmac) is another drug under development and under review by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration for approval. Tegaserod is indicated for the treatment of constipation-predominant IBS and works to increase enteric nervous system serotonin activity.So, increasing serotonin activity in the enteric nervous system produces increased bowel secretions and peristalsis (and potentially diarrhea), whereas depressing serotonin activity produces reduced secretions and reduce peristalsis (and potentially constipation). *Increasing serotonin activity in the brain would increase awareness and, in higher doses, produce anxiety, insomnia and restlessness.* So I would have expected exactly the opposite effects of those that you experienced.I am unable to identify any possible drug interactions between 5-HTP and Synthroid (levothyroxine) but the symptoms described suggest a check with your doctor may be in order. Persistent feelings of tiredness and constipation may be signs of an underactive thyroid (hypothyroidism).June 19, 2001 "


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## eric

Grant have you checked this all out?


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## 14416

Yes I have Eric... I wanted to ask you about something anyways.. and you actually mentioned it. I'll post a little bit of the article, because I found it interesting.You said:


> quote:They are working on a new valium that is non additive for the future


Then I read that they were actually conducting clinicial trials of a benzodiazepine in the treatment of IBS.. It's called dextofisopam.".A novel tranquilizer in phase II developmentby Vela Pharmaceuticals is dextofisopam, theR-enantiomer of the 2,3-benzodiazepinetofisopam. Racemic tofisopam comprising bothR- and S-enantiomers has been marketed andused safely in Europe and Asia for anxiety dis-orders for over two decades. In phase I trials,dextofisopam was non-sedating and very welltolerated. After obtaining acceptance of itsIND in June 2003, VelaPharm has begun aphase II trial of dextofisopam in IBS."And here is a link to another article about the benzodiazepine: http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories....04334332&EDATE=Seems interesting... I think I read it doesn't work like Valium does... and that it hits different receptors. It's funny, because I actually have probably found the most relief from Xanax, a benzo. I don't use it anymore, but that's because insurance is changing and I can't get to the same Dr.


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## Guest

I take a very pragmatic view of all anti-depressent medicines - they seem to be very ideosyncratic - and I'd say, whatever works for you is fine since NOTHING BUT NOTHING IS AS HIDEOUS AS DEPRESSION!!!! I know, I've battled it for years and am finally feeling really well, probably the first time in months.I have slowly managed to come off valium (have been off it completely for about 2 and a half weeks) and now only take 30mg mitrazapene which I'll probably be on for at least a year - some people think thats terrible - I think if I'm happy and can enjoy time with my family, kids and friends - frankly I don't care very much beyond that!!Good mental health to all of us.Sue


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## eric

I am away for a bit and will come back to this grant.


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