# FMT at Taymount Clinic



## dekkalife (Aug 21, 2015)

Hi all.

Today was my first of ten FMT sessions at Taymount Clinic and I thought I would document my experience as it may help others to decide if this treatment is worth a shot. At the moment, I don't think I'm going to do daily updates as I'm sure the procedure for the following days will be more or less the same, so I will just make notes as they come.

*Quick background*

IBS-D for at least 10 years. Diagnosed through exclusion of IBD and other known causes of intestinal upset. Have had every test, scope and scan known to man, and the most I have been told is that I have SIBO, fructose malabsorption, and IBS-D. I have tried every medication available in both Australia and Canada, have spend thousands on supplements (inc probiotics, prebiotics et al), given diets like SCD, FODMAP, Candida diet and many many more a long and serious go, but the only relief I've ever had is from plain old Imodium and chicken and rice. I believe my IBS-D may have been brought on by repeated use of antibiotics as a child.

*Initial Consultation*

In order to get treatment, you first need to set up a phone or Skype session with the clinic to determine if you are suitable for treatment. They will ask you for a brief history of your illness and diagnosis, tell you about the treatment, it's response rates and will let you know if they think you are a suitable patient. They are not pushy and don't attempt to get you to make a decision then and there. If they believe you are a good fit, they leave it up to you to contact them again to give the go ahead. They say about a third of people notice an improvement very quickly, another third over the next few months and the final third longer or potential not at all. Something to note though is that Dr Thomas Borody, a leader in FMT treatments says that even the most stubborn cases can be resolved over two years of intermittent treatment.

*Preparation*

There are three different ways to prepare for the treatment.


Daily magnesium salts capsules (Oxyklenz) for the 4 weeks prior to treatment followed by a colonic 10 days prior to treatment. The magnesium salts will cause softer stools, so perhaps this prep is more idyllic to IBS-C patients.
1 or 2 colonics 10 days prior to treatment followed by MoviPrep solution 2 days prior to treatment.
3 colonics provided by Taymount clinic in the days immediately prior to your treatment. The last option is an additional charge and adds to the waiting time.

I chose the second option, but erred on the side of caution and got 3 colonics in the 3 weeks prior to the treatment, and MoviPrep 2 days prior. If you haven't taken MoviPrep before, it is much easier than PegLyte etc. Something I will note here is that Newbery Clinic in Argentina do not recommend any bowel cleansing, and the Australian clinics only require it if your treatment is via colonoscopy.

*Clinic*

The clinic is located about a 4 minute bus ride or 10 minute walk from Letchworth train station, which is about 24 minutes by train from King's Cross London. I am staying in Stevenage which is two towns over, as there is more accommodation choices, and better access to supermarkets and transport. Stevenage is a 10 minute train ride to Letchworth. It is recommended that you stay nearby, so Letchworth, Hitchin, Baldock and Stevenage are your best options. The clinic is very professional in appearance, somewhat similar to a private day-surgery/naturopath. Each patient is assigned a nurse/therapist that you'll have the entire treatment. The treatments take place in what is more or less a private hospital room, with private washroom and hospital bed.

*Day One*

I'm going to skip through all the greetings etc and get straight to the treatment. Before you arrive they email you a timetable of what time your session will be each day. The first session is approx 2 hours long, with the rest being 1 hour. You are given a fairly thorough information pack including recommendations during treatment (ie, no large meals immediately prior to treatment), dietary and supplement recommendations post treatment, information on the microbiome and a lot more. The first part of the session is a gentle colonic. Mine was only about 20 minutes long but depending on what's required it can be up to 45 minutes. Their colonic machines looked very advanced and were more comfortable than the colonics I received at home. They then insert a small catheter, send the implant through, then remove the catheter. The bed is tilted so that your head is lower than your feet and you spend 10 minutes on your back while the therapist massages your stomach, followed by 10 minutes on your left side, then 10 minutes on your right side. I was given a prebiotic sachet to take with dinner, and advised not to eat or exercise excessively for the next few hours to avoid a bowel movement. At that point you can get dressed and leave at your leisure. My therapist mentioned that some people can only hold it for the 30 minutes which is enough time, whereas some others can hold it all day. I spent an extra 30 minutes at the clinic to make sure I didn't have any sudden urges then walked the 10 minutes back to the station, and took the train back to Stevenage. Thankfully most of the trains have washrooms so if you have an urge while commuting, you've got somewhere to go. I was able to hold it in for about 3 hours.

*Some Notes*

The founders, Dr Enid Taylor and Mr Glenn Taylor run a weekly presentation and discussion at the clinic every Tuesday open to all current and past patients.

I tried to ask some questions but I'm still fighting jet lag so I'm not on point at the moment. I asked if they've noticed if FMT works better for those with IBS-D over IBS-C (which is something I've noticed through other clinical reports like Dr Thomas Borody, and DIY patient reports). The therapist said she didn't notice it working better for one subset over the other.

I also asked if the donor stools are tested for strength and diversity of the microbiome, and was advised that they were not. This surprised me because something on their website lead me to believe that they did test bacterial strength. I will try to find this and ask them about it again.

I'm meaning to ask them what excludes potential donors from donating. The answer is more or less on their website (people with any health problems, illnesses and infections, recent antibiotic use, those who eat limited diets, those who have traveled to particular countries recently). However I want to find out how they make sure potentially unsuitable donors don't just lie about eating diverse foods, or antibiotic history etc.

Also, many people trying DIY FMT have noticed that exposing the stool to oxygen while blending it (etc) has a negative effect on the anaerobic bacteria. I will try and ask about their preparation methods and how they protect against this.

*That's all I have for now. Hope this is of some help to those considering FMT.*


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## flossy (Dec 8, 2012)

As a regular contributor in the chronic constipation forum I just wanted to say thank you for posting this and the best of luck with the results. Please, keep us posted!

Interesting article (I think this is the same Dr. Thomas Borody):

*'Microbiome leader Professor Borody joins researchers at the China Microbiota Transplantation Conference'*

https://www.benzinga.com/pressreleases/17/05/a9459341/microbiome-leader-professor-borody-joins-researchers-at-the-china-micro

P.S. They are even using FMT's to successfully treat multiple sclerosis & autism!


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## mellosphere (Sep 22, 2015)

Thank you so much. As someone who is planning to attend Newbery for my FMT treatment, I will be following this thread closely.


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## dekkalife (Aug 21, 2015)

*Updates*

Asked again about testing donor stool for bacteria strength and diversity. They use a test conducted by Map My Gut through St. Thomas Hospital called 16S rRNA Gene Sequencing to get an understanding of the potential donors biome. The results must reach a certain standard, and the donor must pass all laboratory health tests and the clinics questionnaire to be considered as a donor. Donors are paid, as they must travel to the clinic regularly. I believe the therapist said all donors must also take Symprove daily, and receive FMT intermittently to ensure the consistent health of their biome.

I asked about the process for ensuring that donated stool maintains it's anaerobic bacteria, but the therapist said she would have to ask the lab team for me.

Finally, I mentioned to my therapist that there are a lot of people online thinking about FMT but are cautious because of it's high cost and limited clinical feedback. I also mentioned a few reviews I had read about people who had not been helped by FMT. She said that whilst there are no guarantees, those who don't respond (at Taymount) are a minority. She also agreed that due to the high cost and the potential for your illness to be misdiagnosed early on, it is best to exhaust all other avenues before FMT. She further went to say that the clinic will knock back prospective patients that have not had their condition properly diagnosed and have not attempted other treatments.


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## flossy (Dec 8, 2012)

Good update.

Imagine, getting paid for your poop.









I have a question: How much do the FMT's cost?


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## dekkalife (Aug 21, 2015)

flossy said:


> Good update.
> 
> Imagine, getting paid for your poop.
> 
> ...


The cost is £3960 for 10 implants at the clinic over the course of two weeks, and two additional implants to take home with you to use at a later date. It also includes a colon lavage on your first day.

This makes Taymount Clinic more expensive than the Newbery Clinic in Argentina and Melbourne FMT in Australia. Taymount began performing FMT in 2009, Melbourne FMT in 2013 and Newbery in 2014.


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## flossy (Dec 8, 2012)

dekkalife said:


> The cost is £3960 for 10 implants at the clinic over the course of two weeks, and two additional implants to take home with you to use at a later date. It also includes a colon lavage on your first day.
> 
> This makes Taymount Clinic more expensive than the Newbery Clinic in Argentina and Melbourne FMT in Australia. Taymount began performing FMT in 2009, Melbourne FMT in 2013 and Newbery in 2014.


Thanks for the reply.

So how are you doing so far? Any positive changes in BM's or no?


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## dekkalife (Aug 21, 2015)

flossy said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> So how are you doing so far? Any positive changes in BM's or no?


There have been some changes. I've felt a little bloated the past few days and as of Wednesday morning I was starting to get constipated. Up until that point I was still taking Imodium an hour before each meal, so starting Wednesday I have only taken one Imodium in the morning with breakfast. If I continue to feel like I'm straining I will stop Imodium all together. I have only very rarely gotten constipated while on Imodium, so it's either a coincidence or the FMT is having some influence. Circumstance would suggest it's the latter, but I think it's far too early to be making any form of judgement, positive or negative.

I will say that on prior occasions I have reduced or stopped taking Imodium, I have felt the effects very quickly. My therapist gave me magnesium capsules as she said whilst I obviously don't want to experience diarrhea by choice, constipation can stop the FMT from traveling around the large intestine.


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## flossy (Dec 8, 2012)

dekkalife said:


> There have been some changes. I've felt a little bloated the past few days and as of Wednesday morning I was starting to get constipated. Up until that point I was still taking Imodium an hour before each meal, so starting Wednesday I have only taken one Imodium in the morning with breakfast. If I continue to feel like I'm straining I will stop Imodium all together. I have only very rarely gotten constipated while on Imodium, so it's either a coincidence or the FMT is having some influence. Circumstance would suggest it's the latter, but I think it's far too early to be making any form of judgement, positive or negative.
> 
> I will say that on prior occasions I have reduced or stopped taking Imodium, I have felt the effects very quickly. My therapist gave me magnesium capsules as she said whilst I obviously don't want to experience diarrhea by choice, constipation can stop the FMT from traveling around the large intestine.


It definitely sounds like the FMT's are most likely having an impact, which is great. Also I'm thinking you probably shouldn't take Imodium anymore, because of the FMT's.

Good luck and keep us posted!


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## acureisoutthere (Jun 28, 2014)

Thanks for this posting Dekkalife !

Very, very interesting. Wishing you the best success !

Keep us posted please.

Did they talk about changing your diet after the FMT ? (diet affects which species of bacteria dominate, so it's important to eat properly)

Great post !


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## dekkalife (Aug 21, 2015)

They've included quiet a bit of information about diet, it's effects on the microbiome and what foods to focus on, but they say not to make too many changes at once. For that reason, I am waiting until I get back home before making any big changes to my diet, and will introduce things slowly.

Yesterday they taught me how to do the implant myself via catheter, and it is easier than I expected it to be, and easier than it was when I did a DIY implant years ago. They are sending me home with two free implants, and give you the option to purchase additional implants at any point in time. The say some people won't need additional implants, others will see benefits from monthly implants. They do however advise that an implant be used after getting any gastrointestinal virus, and two implants be used after the use of any antibiotics. Implants cost £200 if you are international, £240 if you are from UK (inc VAT).

They also recommend taking Symprove for 12 weeks after your FMT. It is quite an expensive probiotic but there is research claiming that it is the only probiotic that will survive and grow successfully in your gut. Likewise, they recommend taking a prebiotic, like Acacia gum or GOS, which is fairly cheap.


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## flossy (Dec 8, 2012)

How many transplants have you had so far and how often do you get them?


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## dekkalife (Aug 21, 2015)

I have had 9 transplants as of today. My last is tomorrow.

The schedule is one implant Monday to Friday for two weeks.

I tried stopping Imodium over the weekend, and I went back to having diarrhea. I resumed taking it again but at a smaller dose, one tablet before breakfast, and one before dinner. I've also been taking Galactomune by Klaire Labs, a GOS prebiotic. Since starting this combination on Monday, I have been having about two Type-4 movements a day.

This is obviously a big improvement, however I have not yet challenged my diet, and I can't be completely certain that the relief is coming from the FMT, the prebiotic, or both. Still early days.


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## acureisoutthere (Jun 28, 2014)

It's great to hear an update !

Did they say anything about PPI's or NSAIDS ?

Did they say anything about processed foods and emulsifiers ?

Just wondering where they are at on their microbiome research.........


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## dekkalife (Aug 21, 2015)

They haven't mentioned anything about medications, but there is a lot of information about feeding your microbiome and foods that inhibit this in the information pack they give you.

I didn't have an urge to go to the toilet until a few hours after I got up this morning, which is unusual. I strained a little and was a bit constipated, however, what surprised me was the color of my stool. It is usually either pale or a shade of yellow/orange. This time is was dark brown. I can't remember the last time I had a normal looking stool.


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## flossy (Dec 8, 2012)

dekkalife said:


> They haven't mentioned anything about medications, but there is a lot of information about feeding your microbiome and foods that inhibit this in the information pack they give you.
> 
> I didn't have an urge to go to the toilet until a few hours after I got up this morning, which is unusual. I strained a little and was a bit constipated, however, what surprised me was the color of my stool. It is usually either pale or a shade of yellow/orange. This time is was dark brown. I can't remember the last time I had a normal looking stool.


Yay!


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## mellosphere (Sep 22, 2015)

Wow! I was thinking last night to ask about stool color because i know mine is always very pale! I hope you continue to have success!


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## dekkalife (Aug 21, 2015)

*Update*

I flew home on Saturday, took a couple Imodium throughout the day as travel usually upsets my gut. It is common for me to have a few days after I fly of very loose stool despite using Imodium, but this time that has not happened.

Since returning I have still been taking Imodium, one tablet before breakfast and one before dinner. I am finding that I am getting constipated so I will be cutting it down to half a tablet before breakfast and dinner, and hopefully at a later stage, none at all. I am continuing to take Galactomune, which is a GOS prebiotic fibre supplement.

I have reintroduced a few things into my diet since returning, without problems.


Oatmeal
Cheese (Swiss)
Kefir (Rice based)
Butter

It is important after FMT to consume pre- and pro-biotics, to support the new bacteria. In the past, fibre and probiotics would cause me a lot of problems. For now, I seem to be tolerating them well.

In terms of side effects from the FMT, the only I have noticed is that I feel quite tired, but according to the clinic this is common. They told me to expect ups and downs over the next 3 months.


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## acureisoutthere (Jun 28, 2014)

Great to hear of your good news, and your updates.

Thank you for keeping us informed, this is pretty important feedback for people.

Blessings, and hope you continue to improve.


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## flossy (Dec 8, 2012)

acureisoutthere said:


> Great to hear of your good news, and your updates.
> 
> Thank you for keeping us informed, this is pretty important feedback for people.
> 
> Blessings, and hope you continue to improve.


I like the info in this post too, acureisoutthere! Very interesting. If there is a possible cure for some of us out there? FMT's are it. IMHO


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## acureisoutthere (Jun 28, 2014)

"FMTs are it" I couldn't agree more. I just wish it was easier for people that suffer with IBS to get help and complete reversal of their symptoms, like I have. I count my blessings, every day. I know how lucky I am, and I just wish everyone else could have this same relief.

I think it's helpful to be reading everything one can find on the human microbiome. This helps to give a better understanding of what it's all about. You could try this ; Google CBS news, microbiome and the same for all the other major news sites. Start reading and understanding. This microbiome is playing such an amazing role in human health, and we've been overlooking it (and paying the price for that).

Also, there is a Reddit site on the microbiome that has an enormous about of info/articles on the microbiome :

https://www.reddit.com/r/Microbiome/


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## mellosphere (Sep 22, 2015)

Would love to hear how things are going for you now dekkalife!


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## dekkalife (Aug 21, 2015)

I've been doing well. I recently introduced Greek yogurt and granola bars without problems. I've also been taking a probiotic called Bio-K Plus, which is a fermented liquid similar to kefir.

I also reduced the Imodium from a full tablet twice a day, to half a tablet twice a day, but after a few days of that I got diarrhea, so I've returned to the previous dose. I noticed however that the turkey meat I'd been using for my sandwiches was very slimy and had a bit of an odor, so perhaps that caused it. Or maybe I was just having bad day, who knows. For now I'm going to stick with the initial Imodium dose and first concentrate on reintroducing more foods. My diet is already noticeably better than it was before.

Another improvement I have noticed (but cannot say for certain that was an affect of the FMT) is that my skin appears to be clearer. I usually have a patch of acne on my chest that never really clears, and since the FMT, it has all but gone.


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## acureisoutthere (Jun 28, 2014)

I hope you try to avoid those processed foods, with their emulsifiers.

Very very interesting. I've read where rosacea is connected with the gut microbiome, so your report about acne makes sense.

It could have been that turkey meat. Time will tell. Wishing you the best. I've noticed after my FMT that unpasteurized sauerkraut (homemade) or kimchi seem to be good and helpful. There certainly is a dearth of info on how they are supposed to be. Perhaps you will find they are helpful for you ?


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## mellosphere (Sep 22, 2015)

Interested how the food introductions are going and if you've been able to get off imodium. Hoping all is well!!


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## dekkalife (Aug 21, 2015)

I'm still taking the Imodium but I'm doing a lot better than I was pre-treatment, in addition to being able to eat more foods. I haven't introduced much more in the last week because I've just been enjoying the predictable bowel movements. I will add some more foods this week. I'm having two movements a day, Bristol type 3/4.

The last week I've felt quite tired, but this is apparently common.


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## acureisoutthere (Jun 28, 2014)

Thanks for the update !

Keep wishing you the best Dekkalife.


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## MaximilianKohler (Apr 15, 2013)

dekkalife said:


> *Updates*
> 
> I believe the therapist said all donors must also take Symprove daily, and receive FMT intermittently to ensure the consistent health of their biome.
> 
> I asked about the process for ensuring that donated stool maintains it's anaerobic bacteria, but the therapist said she would have to ask the lab team for me.


Thanks for sharing all this, and asking the important questions!

Did they never answer the question about reducing oxygen exposure? Nothing about which stool types are accepted/denied? https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9e/BristolStoolChart.png

I'm guessing that's a typo that they require their *donors *to *receive *FMT?

Unfortunately, your experience seems to provide more supporting data that their donors are low quality and they might be exposing the stool to too much oxygen. And it seems they're avoiding giving more details on donor criteria for inclusion/exclusion.

I think that's a really bad idea to make donors take a probiotic. The probiotic would disturb/reduce/suppress the donor's microbes, and the donor's microbes are what you want, not a probiotic (which are all extremely limited and likely better off just taking it yourself).



acureisoutthere said:


> Also, there is a Reddit site on the microbiome that has an enormous about of info/articles on the microbiome :
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/Microbiome/


Thanks for sharing! I was responsible for that, but recently moved most of the content over to /r/*Human*Microbiome.


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## dekkalife (Aug 21, 2015)

MaximilianKohler said:


> Thanks for sharing all this, and asking the important questions!
> 
> Did they never answer the question about reducing oxygen exposure? Nothing about which stool types are accepted/denied? https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9e/BristolStoolChart.png
> 
> ...


I forgot to follow up on the question about exposure to oxygen so that's partly on me. Donors need to have type 3 or 4 stools to be considered as a donor, and if they pass the screening and testing, only type 3 or 4 stools are accepted.

No typo. Donors receive FMT periodically and especially after they get sick (common cold etc).

I have noticed an improvement in my IBS since this treatment, but I'm not claiming success yet as I think it's too early. Having said that, I didn't get the impression that they were trying to avoid giving detail on donor criteria. My therapist listed off a few of the criteria, but I'm sure if I had asked them for a point by point criteria they would have provided it. And I was asking these questions as the implants were being inserted so I guess I didn't really have their undivided attention.

I'm curious about your statement that probiotics would suppress a donors microbiome. From what I've read, while supplementary probiotics have an insignificant chance of colonising, they can reduce pathogens in the gut and create a better environment for beneficial bacteria. I'd say it would be difficult to find stool from a donor that didn't have at least some exposure to either supplementary probiotics or probiotics from fermented foods.


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## MaximilianKohler (Apr 15, 2013)

dekkalife said:


> I forgot to follow up on the question about exposure to oxygen so that's partly on me. Donors need to have type 3 or 4 stools to be considered as a donor, and if they pass the screening and testing, only type 3 or 4 stools are accepted.
> 
> No typo. Donors receive FMT periodically and especially after they get sick (common cold etc).
> 
> ...


Very interesting, thanks!

Do you know if they're doing FMT from their own stool that was frozen, or from other Taymount donors?

If you are able to get the point by point criteria that would be extremely helpful!

I'm really curious to see the stool being used. In my experience high quality donors have identical stools. Wish there were some video interview with them like one of the OpenBiome donors did. From that video it seems OpenBiome's donor quality has a lot of room for improvement. She says on camera the donor's stool is a Bristol 5. The stool looks too light, and the guy doesn't look very ideal (pretty sure I can tell).

Regarding probiotics, check the link I posted. Results depend a lot on the specific strain/source of the probiotic, and on Symprove's website I see no info about that, which is a bad sign. And even for human-sourced probiotics they can still have a wide variety of effects that vary from person to person, product/strain to product/strain.

They certainly can suppress pathogens, but native microbes as well. "Better environment for beneficial bacteria" really depends on a variety of factors (see above). Donor's taking probiotics may or may not be good/bad, experimentation with/without would be the only way to find out.



> I'd say it would be difficult to find stool from a donor that didn't have at least some exposure to either supplementary probiotics or probiotics from fermented foods.


I don't mean life-time exposure, if that's what you're saying. With antibiotics it's possible that life-time exposure is significant. But with probiotics & fermented foods I think it's probably better that the donor is not taking them while donating stool, but it's hugely variable and there are likely exceptions.


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## dekkalife (Aug 21, 2015)

I don't know which stool the donors use for their own implants unfortunately.

I can't find information on the source of the probiotics in Symprove, but the strains are L. rhamnosus, E. faecium, L. acidophilus and L. plantarum. According to a study by the UCL (University College London), it beat other probiotics such as VSL#3 in it's ability to withstand digestion. It was, however, a small sample size. Their criteria when subjected to stomach acid were:


At least 75% of bacteria must be reactivated. Only Symprove, Yakult and Actimel passed, presumably because they do not require reactivation like the solid probiotics do.
After 2 hours exposure, there must be at least 1 million bacteria per mL. Only Symprove and VSL#3 passed.
After 30 minutes exposure, the bacteria must begin to grow within 10 hours. Only Symprove and VSL#3 passed.


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## MaximilianKohler (Apr 15, 2013)

Yeah, the things they boast about Symprove are not really important in my opinion. More important is what's it actually doing in the body.

I went through a few more of Taymount's FAQ videos to try and figure out what factors might be causing their results to be poor, and from these two videos it sounds like they might be overprocessing: 



 -


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## acureisoutthere (Jun 28, 2014)

Great comments.

It's seems odd that Taymount would give their donors an FMT periodically. A good, healthy donor, in my opinion, would not need an FMT. Their microbiome should already be in good shape. Most people have different microbiomes from each other. So, is an FMT from one healthy individual to another healthy individual helpful, or not ? I'd have to see some data first.

Why do people have different microbiomes ? We don't know yet. I have read however that there is a fairly close match in 1 out of a few thousand people. Is this important ? I don't think the researchers know this answer yet. It seems like there might be a reason that everyone (generally) has a different microbiome but we just haven't figured it out yet.

A healthy individual shouldn't need to take a probiotic. I've read that it is probably a waste of money for a healthy person to take a probiotic (current generation probiotics).

I attended a discussion/seminar on the microbiome a short while ago. The speaker, ( a microbiologist doing research on the microbiome) commented that most of the strains in probiotic pills do not normally colonize the gut. I thought this was pretty interesting.

{for instance; lactobacillus rhamnosus, doesn't normally colonize the gut}

If Taymount is concerned about hormones, why don't they just make sure the gender of the donor and the recipient match ?

Great discussion !

Still wishing you the best dekkalife ! PS I thought it was interesting about the comment on Borody that some cases of IBS-D are stubborn and take repeated FMTs to reverse it, over a long period. {overcoming the appendix, I presume}


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## pepgenova (Jun 14, 2017)

Hi guys.. I'm really glad to be part of this discussion.. I suffer from a severe IBS with pain/high discomfort and frequent urgencies(real or false ones). of course form and frequency of bowel movements is always abnormal.. My question is: do you notice any improvement in discomfort and pain or diarrhea was the only one major symptom of your IBS??
Hope you get always better..


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## dekkalife (Aug 21, 2015)

I guess I should have asked more questions at the time, but my mind was elsewhere. My guess would be that finding suitable donors wouldn't be easy. You need someone that has absolutely no medical conditions (and who these days doesn't), that eats a wide variety of foods, that hasn't used antibiotics recently, and that is actually willing to be a donor, among other things. If a donor gets sick, their microbiome can be affected, so it's probably beneficial to the clinic to treat their donors if they get ill. That's just my speculation.

My IBS symptoms are diarrhea, pain/cramping, incomplete evacuation (if anyone knows a better word for this haha) and frequency/urgency. Before my treatment I took an Imodium with each meal, ate rice (inc rice cereal and rice milk), gluten free bread, chicken and gluten free bread. Since the treatment, I continue to take Imodium, but only 1 tablet twice a day, and have been able to introduce more foods into my diet without upset. These have included fish, oatmeal, cheese, yogurt, carrots, gluten free waffles, maple syrup, prebiotics and probiotics. Most days my stool is fully formed, and at worst it has been formed but soft, and I think I have had typical diarrhea once. Pain and cramping has decreased moderately. Incomplete evacuation has improved substantially, after 2 trips to the bathroom in the morning I usually feel comfortable for the rest of the day. With those morning bowel movements, I still have a sense of urgency, however, this could come down to me expecting diarrhea (which I have done for years) by default.


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## pepgenova (Jun 14, 2017)

yes there are similarities in our symptoms..well i hope you continue getting better and update your situation in this conversation in the future..it would be also amazing to find other fmt succes stories..


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## dekkalife (Aug 21, 2015)

There is someone else here that is getting FMT at Taymount in November. It will be interesting to hear how the respond as well.


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## Hopeful Guy (Oct 9, 2017)

dekkalife said:


> There is someone else here that is getting FMT at Taymount in November. It will be interesting to hear how the respond as well.


Yes i am going for FMT in November. Pls write down your questions if any guys. I will do my best to ask them whilst am there.

Taymount also has their own Q&A here: https://taymount.com/patients/faq

Can also read other replies at here: http://thepowerofpoop.com/taymount-answers-your-questions/


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## mellosphere (Sep 22, 2015)

Yeah it would be good to see a list of questions to ask. I am going for FMT treatment at Newbery in Buenos Aires at the end of november. This thread is interesting but a little discouraging. I really hope that the FMT can improve my condition...dont have any other options remaining.


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## pepgenova (Jun 14, 2017)

Thank you very much guys for allowing us to make questions and transmit them to the clinics. I am listing some of my questions here and you can choose of course which ones to make. Of course these questions are concentrated on IBS and the relation with the microbiota. In the Q&A s I don't find any question and answer specific to IBS and this lets me a little sceptic. However here is the list of my questions:
1- In their experiense and according to them how much are the changes in a persons microbiome responsible in the etiology of IBS?? How much is the microbiome responsible for the microinflammation(especially mast cell activity) and the increased gut permeability found in persons with IBS?
2- If these changes in the microbiome are the main factor, then someone should expect that ''replacing'' his/her microbiome with that of a healthy person then the symptoms should reverse or at least have a substantial improvement. The question here is: with the 10 transplants that are made in the clinics, for how much time the patients microbiome will remain similar or same with that of the donor? And how many transplants would be better to have to maintain the donors microbiome for an indefinite time?
3- Which kind of IBS patients do respond better to the FMT? Are the ones who have a symptom improvement while taking probiotics or rifaximin? 
4- How much is the success rate of FMT in IBS patients? And for those who do not respond is that because maybe they must have a higher number of FMTs to completely reverse the microbiome into a healthy one or is that bacause of other factors not related to the microbiome and for these patients FMT is not a solution even if they do like hundreds of FMT? Or maybe the FMT tecniques still need to be perfectioned so that even the present non responders do respond??

For the moment these are my questions guys.Hope I was understandable. If some other questions come into my mind I will add them by editing this comment. I'd appreciate if you give me a confirmation that you read the comment. Thanks


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## MaximilianKohler (Apr 15, 2013)

Thanks guys!

My questions revolve around trying to figure out each clinic's donor quality.

I follow the microbiome literature closely and this is the screening questionnaire I use: http://freetexthost.com/5wxb3epoun

I'm curious to know whether the clincs are being more or less strict than that, as none of them publish that type of questionnaire for us to review. From what I've seen, they're all being much *less *strict, and thus I believe their donor quality to be poor, and the reason for low efficacy.

Those of you who are committing to paying thousands of dollars to use these clinic's donors should definitely familiarize yourselves with the info in that link and this one: https://www.reddit.com/r/HumanMicrobiome/wiki/index - see the FMT sections.

I'm curious to know which specific criteria they are using to accept or deny donors. For example, Taymount may only accept type 3 & 4 stools, whereas we have video evidence that OpenBiome has a type 5 donor. This implies that these places are having trouble finding top quality donors.

Currently I think some of the main factors are:

* Life-time antibiotic usage.

* Stool comp & color - stools should be Type 3 and dark.

* Donor physical & mental traits that you can observe by looking & talking to them. Athleticism should be sought after.


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## dekkalife (Aug 21, 2015)

When I had my initial consultation with Taymount, they commented that they have found that FMT works particularly well for food intolerances and sensitivities, as well as IBS as a result of antibiotic use. When I asked the therapist if a particular subset of IBS responds better (ie IBS-D vs IBS-C), she said there wasn't a noticeable difference.

All FMT clinics are cautious on giving success rates. Taymount say that about a third of patients respond very quickly (within weeks), another third respond within the first few months, and the final third take longer or potentially not at all. It seems as though, if clinics do give a percentage, it's around the 60-70% range. I can't find the article now, but Dr Thomas Borody (who is a leader in FMT) has said that even the most stubborn of IBS cases can be treated with FMT, but can take up to a year of periodical treatments.


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## pepgenova (Jun 14, 2017)

Dekkalife I don't find nothing from Dr Thomas Borody related specificaly to IBS in the internet and also the others don't speak for IBS in particular. Moreover in the US, FMT is yet done only for C.diff. Anyway if you find the article please post it here. The other big issue is if the results are permanent for a fair period of time or not. Does the patient's microbiome tend to return in the pre-FMT form over time? Really hope research moves forward fast. I don't know if there is enough funding to find a cure for IBS or for research in general. It doesn't seem so unfortunately.


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## Hopeful Guy (Oct 9, 2017)

pepgenova said:


> Thank you very much guys for allowing us to make questions and transmit them to the clinics. I am listing some of my questions here and you can choose of course which ones to make. Of course these questions are concentrated on IBS and the relation with the microbiota. In the Q&A s I don't find any question and answer specific to IBS and this lets me a little sceptic. However here is the list of my questions:
> 1- In their experiense and according to them how much are the changes in a persons microbiome responsible in the etiology of IBS?? How much is the microbiome responsible for the microinflammation(especially mast cell activity) and the increased gut permeability found in persons with IBS?
> 2- If these changes in the microbiome are the main factor, then someone should expect that ''replacing'' his/her microbiome with that of a healthy person then the symptoms should reverse or at least have a substantial improvement. The question here is: with the 10 transplants that are made in the clinics, for how much time the patients microbiome will remain similar or same with that of the donor? And how many transplants would be better to have to maintain the donors microbiome for an indefinite time?
> 3- Which kind of IBS patients do respond better to the FMT? Are the ones who have a symptom improvement while taking probiotics or rifaximin?
> ...


Got it. Will ask when have the chance.


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## Hopeful Guy (Oct 9, 2017)

MaximilianKohler said:


> Thanks guys!
> 
> My questions revolve around trying to figure out each clinic's donor quality.
> 
> ...


will check on this as well. hopefully they will allow me to ask so many questions. Or maybe will try to send an email first.


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## acureisoutthere (Jun 28, 2014)

In her book, "10% Human" author Alanna Collen reports that Dr. Borody is achieving an 80% success rate with IBS-D and a 30% success rate with IBS-C.

It's been 2 1/2 years since my successful DIY FMT. I'm still doing fine, except I never quite got my dairy products back. I try to avoid processed foods.


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## flossy (Dec 8, 2012)

acureisoutthere said:


> In her book, "10% Human" author Alanna Collen reports that Dr. Borody is achieving an 80% success rate with IBS-D and a 30% success rate with IBS-C.
> 
> It's been 2 1/2 years since my successful DIY FMT. I'm still doing fine, except I never quite got my dairy products back. I try to avoid processed foods.


That's kinda low with the IBS-C success rate... I've always thought if FMT's don't work for IBS-C, then try a series of transplants mixing in good stool with someone's stool who currently has IBS-D. I really think that might work.


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## acureisoutthere (Jun 28, 2014)

flossy said:


> That's kinda low with the IBS-C success rate... I've always thought if FMT's don't work for IBS-C, then try a series of transplants mixing in good stool with someone's stool who currently has IBS-D. I really think that might work.


I agree, it's kind of low. I've always wondered why it is not as successful as for IBS-D, for Dr. Borody. Makes me wonder if there are a couple of missing species in the small intestine, but I have never read any research concerning this.


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## JoeDirt (Oct 21, 2017)

MaximilianKohler said:


> Thanks guys!
> 
> My questions revolve around trying to figure out each clinic's donor quality.
> 
> ...


Where did you see the video evidence of Openbiome where they accept type 5 donors? Cause at the moment there are many clinical trials using Openbiome as the supplier, but if their donors aren't even that healthy, wouldn't the results be less than ideal?


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## shadytree (Oct 6, 2017)

Thanks for the information.What a ride you have been on.

I also think FMT will be the cure for us as well.


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## mellosphere (Sep 22, 2015)

Really hoping that FMT is a success for you and for me and everyone else...been going through a really rough IBS-D patch lately and can't really eat anything anymore without yellow squirty stools and all day being uncomfortable with gas and cramps. This disease really can be discouraging.

Nice to hear that Borody is 70-80% success for IBS-D. I wonder what his criteria for success are. Newbery said that it helps almost everyone (like 90%) but to varying degrees. One thing I'm hoping will help me with going to Newbery is that I am hopefully going to bring home some samples to continue treatment at home. This is what they recommend because they really believe the recovery process can take significant amounts of time.

Dekka, do you feel like your symptoms have continued on the path to improvement? Or have you seen things trending back towards IBS-D? or have things really stabilized for you?


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## dekkalife (Aug 21, 2015)

Things have generally been improving. There has been the odd day where things haven't been as good as the day before, but still noticeably better than pre-treatment.

I brought home 2 implants from Taymount to be used at a later date. If I remember correctly, Newbery also give you some complementary implants don't they? At very least, Newbery's implants are cheaper to purchase than Taymount's.

Good quality probiotics are getting costly, so I'm activating some water kefir at the moment which should start producing later this week.


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## mellosphere (Sep 22, 2015)

Thank you for the update.

They dont give any complimentary implants. But i am going to buy some. They said it would be $1750 for 10 or $3000 for 20. Thats a lot of money but i guess its worth it if it helps. Plus the in clinic treatment will only cost $2000 so that makes it better. Especially since i cant take two weeks off work to go to a clinic.

What probiotics have you been taking? I never could get kefir to produce consistently. It seemed to help my stool the first day but then after that it was like it did nothing. I wish i could figure that out.


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## dekkalife (Aug 21, 2015)

I've been taking a probiotic with breakfast called Bio-K Plus. They are little fermented drinks, that are either dairy, soy or rice based. They are made in Canada, so I think you'd be able to find them in the US. I've been using them for a little over a month now, but they cost about $3.33 (cad) a day when you break it down. I think water kefir should be able to yield a higher CFU, and will definitely contain more strains. I also take a capsule probiotic at night, but only because I got them for free. In my personal experience and from what I've read, probiotics in liquid form seem to perform much better than those in capsules.


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## acureisoutthere (Jun 28, 2014)

This is a great conversation here. Lot's of good questions and thoughts, and input.

I continue to wish you success with your efforts dekkalife. May you find the relief that I have found. I wish this with all my heart.


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## MaximilianKohler (Apr 15, 2013)

JoeDirt said:


> Where did you see the video evidence of Openbiome where they accept type 5 donors? Cause at the moment there are many clinical trials using Openbiome as the supplier, but if their donors aren't even that healthy, wouldn't the results be less than ideal?


I posted a link in a previous comment in this thread. Absolutely agree that low donor quality is negatively impacting clinical trial results.



dekkalife said:


> Things have generally been improving. There has been the odd day where things haven't been as good as the day before, but still noticeably better than pre-treatment.
> 
> I brought home 2 implants from Taymount to be used at a later date. If I remember correctly, Newbery also give you some complementary implants don't they? At very least, Newbery's implants are cheaper to purchase than Taymount's.
> 
> Good quality probiotics are getting costly, so I'm activating some water kefir at the moment which should start producing later this week.


Regarding fermented foods & probiotics, please check the guide in my signature. There's a lot of widespread misinformation that I'm trying to stifle.


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## acureisoutthere (Jun 28, 2014)

Mellowshpere,

when do you plan to go to Newbery ?


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## mellosphere (Sep 22, 2015)

November 20-24 I am planning to be at Newbery clinic in Buenos Aires for FMT treatment for 5 days in clinic treatment. I am also planning to bring samples home to continue my treatment here in the USA. No samples are complimentary as far as I know. At this point I am planning to purchase 20 samples ($3000) and will do 5 more days right after I get home, then probably 1 per week until gone, or space them out a little bit more if I can. I know many clinicians believe that resolution of severe IBS-d (that didnt develop in a week) is hard to achieve in a week. I am hoping that over the course of a few months with consistent transplants at home from a consistent source I will be able to make those bacteria feel right at home in my intestines.

I am a little concerned about the fact that my emotions can contribute to my condition. While I am a staunch believer and have expressed these opinions on this board that my IBS is not due to anxiety/stress/depression, I do realize that heightened emotions do make a difference in my intestinal tract. For example if I go to a movie theater I always know that I will end up cramping later simply due to mild emotional connection with the plot of the story. I have my doubts that FMT will do much to resolve this issue. I also know that coitus causes major intestinal issues so I do not know how or if FMT will help with these connecting issues. Any thoughts would be very welcome.


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## MaximilianKohler (Apr 15, 2013)

mellosphere said:


> I am a little concerned about the fact that my emotions can contribute to my condition. While I am a staunch believer and have expressed these opinions on this board that my IBS is not due to anxiety/stress/depression, I do realize that heightened emotions do make a difference in my intestinal tract. For example if I go to a movie theater I always know that I will end up cramping later simply due to mild emotional connection with the plot of the story. I have my doubts that FMT will do much to resolve this issue. I also know that coitus causes major intestinal issues so I do not know how or if FMT will help with these connecting issues. Any thoughts would be very welcome.


All of this is gut microbiome mediated. See the relevant sections here: https://www.reddit.com/r/HumanMicrobiome/wiki/intro

Thus, if the FMT donor is high quality enough the FMT should absolutely put an end to those issues.


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## mellosphere (Sep 22, 2015)

MaximilianKohler said:


> All of this is gut microbiome mediated. See the relevant sections here: https://www.reddit.com/r/HumanMicrobiome/wiki/intro
> 
> Thus, if the FMT donor is high quality enough the FMT should absolutely put an end to those issues.


I really hope so!


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## acureisoutthere (Jun 28, 2014)

Mellowsphere,

Dr Thomas Borody has reported reversing Depression, MS, and Autism. So there is hope at least that your FMTs might help to resolve anxiety issues, as there is a pretty clear connection to neurological functions. One pathway is the Vegas nerve and then there is another I came across, but I always forget the name of it. I seen it something like two years ago. There is communication between the brain and the gut, both directions. We also should not forget the blood microbiome and the brain microbiome. I hope to read some research on these someday.

One other thought; There was a guy on the forum a year or two ago (ShaneM) that reversed his IBS-D with a DIY FMT. However, it did not reverse his anxiety issues. I have always suspected that he needed to do more FMTs for this. We are learning. I wish that we had more info on other diseases/conditions that have shown improvement after FMT. If anyone has anything, it would be appreciated.

I agree with Maximilian, it seems that donor quality is important. Understand that the average person has lost 40% of their diversity as compared to remote tribes that have never had antibiotics. Microbially speaking, we are all deficient in diversity, so finding a good donor with a highly diverse microbiome is a challenge, and may explain why some people have not had success with an FMT, while others have. I really wish our US doctors could catch up to speed with Dr. Borody and Glen Taylor. I dislike the idea that Glen is giving his donors an FMT on a regular basis. I suspect this is an effort to increase their diversity (the only logical reason I can think of) However, I wonder if in a healthy individual with no disease, what this does to the gut microbiome ? There is intense competition for space and resources by bacteria in the gut. So, I wonder (for a healthy individual) how fast homeostasis is reached. Is it a week, is it a month, is it longer ? I haven't read much on this. Of course, the proof would be in his success rates, vs Borody, as each uses a different approach.

Maybe we can also learn of success rates for Newbery and their general procedure ?


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## pepgenova (Jun 14, 2017)

I also have very severe worsening of the symptoms (especially heightened discomfort/pain and feeling of urgency- really invalidating) during acute anxiety or nervousness..for example giving an oral exam at university has become literally impossible for me.. I don't know how much this has to do with the microbiome..


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## celestin (May 20, 2004)

brain microbiome ??? Lol


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## acureisoutthere (Jun 28, 2014)

Yes, there is a brain microbiome, as well as a blood microbiome. The research is amazing. It's like we have been overlooking this vast ecosystem that we live with, and which affects our human health greatly. Bacteria cells, viruses, fungi, archea, etc. in and on our bodies outnumber our human cells. You could say we are "mostly bacteria" and be correct.

It's actually a new way of thinking about our health, this realization that we are mostly bacteria and that they play a huge role in our health. We are covered with bacteria, in and on our bodies. Most of these bacteria are good and helpful bacteria, they keep us healthy.

When we look in the mirror we only see part of ourselves.

The problem is, we've been overlooking these bacteria, etc. We haven't been able to study them until recently. What's more, we've been treating our good bacteria badly, killing off our good, friendly bacteria and perturbing them in a number of ways.

Here's a video from Dr. Rob Knight of the Human Microbiome Project to get you started.


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## acureisoutthere (Jun 28, 2014)

Here's an article on the brain microbiome.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robinseatonjefferson/2017/07/28/mapping-the-brains-microbiome-can-studying-germs-in-the-brain-lead-to-a-cure-for-alzheimers/#6b96b850da4f


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## celestin (May 20, 2004)

acureisoutthere said:


> One pathway is the Vegas ????? nerve and then there is another I came across, but.....
> 
> ....and the brain microbiome????
> 
> .....Here's a video from Dr. Rob Knight of the Human Microbiome Project to get you started ????


LOL!!

And the other is the Washington nerve perhaps?!!

Who are you to get ME started??
I have nothing to learn from you.

Actually you are a dangerous guy.


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## acureisoutthere (Jun 28, 2014)

"This interaction between microbiota and GBA appear to be bidirectional, namely through signaling from gut-microbiota to brain, and from brain to gut-microbiota by means of neural, endocrine, immune and humoral links"

This research article from the Annals of Gastroenterology explains it much better than I can.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4367209/


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## MaximilianKohler (Apr 15, 2013)

celestin said:


> LOL!!
> 
> And the other is the Washington nerve perhaps?!!
> 
> ...


???

You sound like you're brain damaged...


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## celestin (May 20, 2004)

MaximilianKohler said:


> ???
> 
> You sound like you're brain damaged...


The microbs of my brain maybe?


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## MaximilianKohler (Apr 15, 2013)

celestin said:


> The microbs of my brain maybe?


Perhaps. Or the microbes of your gut.


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## celestin (May 20, 2004)

.



acureisoutthere said:


> So there is hope at least that your FMTs might help to resolve anxiety issues, as there is a pretty clear connection to neurological functions. One pathway is the Vegas nerve and then there is another I came across, but I always forget the name of it. I seen it something like two years ago.


.

You are so smart..please tell me everything about the Vegas nerve...


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## atrix (Jun 7, 2017)

You can mostly ignore what MaximilianKohler says. He was a moderator on /r/microbiome until he was booted off for being a jackass. Dr Elizabeth Bik of Standford was also a moderator and resigned because of MaximilianKohler's behavior.

MaximilianKohler is a lay person who reads a lot of abstracts and poorly treats those with differing opinions than himself. Take what you will from that.


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## celestin (May 20, 2004)

Thks Atrix. I didn't know that but I can immediately recognize those who really know something and ...the others! (e.g. the specialists of the Vegas nerve..)


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## atrix (Jun 7, 2017)

No problem. I cured my IBS and want to make sure people get good information to help themselves.

Its always a gamble when dealing with the Vegas nerve!


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## celestin (May 20, 2004)




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## pepgenova (Jun 14, 2017)

atrix said:


> No problem. I cured my IBS and want to make sure people get good information to help themselves.
> 
> Its always a gamble when dealing with the Vegas nerve!


Atrix how did you cure your ibs??


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## atrix (Jun 7, 2017)

prozac


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## dekkalife (Aug 21, 2015)

Things have gotten a little hostile here, so I think it's necessary to remind everyone that nobody here is a qualified expert. We are mostly trading anecdotal evidence that can very well be interpreted incorrectly.


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## atrix (Jun 7, 2017)

dekkalife, I think you are incorrect. There are some people here that are qualified experts. I think they are few, but I have spoken to a couple.


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## acureisoutthere (Jun 28, 2014)

I had a nice big piece of humble pie today. Yes, I spelled Vagus nerve incorrectly as the Vegas nerve. I'm glad it was good for a few laughs. I especially liked Atrix's comment; "It's always a gamble when dealing with the Vegas nerve". Good one !

Sorry for any confusion.


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## MaximilianKohler (Apr 15, 2013)

atrix said:


> You can mostly ignore what MaximilianKohler says. He was a moderator on /r/microbiome until he was booted off for being a jackass. Dr Elizabeth Bik of Standford was also a moderator and resigned because of MaximilianKohler's behavior.
> 
> MaximilianKohler is a lay person who reads a lot of abstracts and poorly treats those with differing opinions than himself. Take what you will from that.


This is a complete lie. What happened is archived here with all the evidence as well:

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/HumanMicrobiome/comments/6jbjtj

Elisabeth Bik absolutely did not resign because of my behavior. She publicly stated why she left. It sounds like atrix was one of the people involved. No one else would lie about what happened like that.


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## atrix (Jun 7, 2017)

Looks clear to me MaximilianKohler was in the wrong but has tried to twist the story, albeit pathetically, to support his narrative. Pretty amateur stuff IMO.


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## annie7 (Aug 16, 2002)

stepping in as moderator here--please stay on topic and avoid dragging in personal issues here or i will have to lock this thread.


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## acureisoutthere (Jun 28, 2014)

Dekkalife,

How are you doing freind ? I hope you are doing well and notice some improvement. Any thoughts/reports would be helpful.

Also, do you have a list of the different foods that you now have back ?


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## dekkalife (Aug 21, 2015)

The last week or so has been a little worse than previous weeks, however they did say during treatment that at about the 6 week mark some people notice a decline, followed by a resumed improvement. I am better today.


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## acureisoutthere (Jun 28, 2014)

Thanks for the update dekkalife, we are all pulling for you to continue to improve. We want you to succeed. Can you now eat some fresh fruits and fresh vegetables ? How about nuts and seeds ? Or probiotic foods like kimchi, sauerkraut, or kefir ?

Do you have more samples for home implants ?

I sometimes wonder if his successful patients have never heard of this forum, or they just don't bother to let us know ? It sure would be interesting to hear from them. The same goes for Dr. Borody's patients, it sure would be nice to hear from them too. Now, how would one reach them, or find them ?

Some good news ; the AGA is having another symposium on FMTs in early 2018. Let's hope the science moves forward and they can make real progress in figuring out the best approach. This is how the roughly 35 million people that have IBS are going to one day find help. It's the real way forward. At least they are looking at the microbiome now. I remember thinking to myself back in 2014 that most gastroenterologists had never even heard of the microbiome, much less FMTs. Thankfully that has now changed. I've certainly been trying to encourage this.

Some not so good news; I now have to restrict my potassium intake because my kidneys keep declining (stage 3). So, now I have to limit or avoid quite a few nice foods to reduce my intake of potassium. I have autosomonal dominant polycystic kidney disease. No beating or reversing that one, just manage symptoms.

Always wishing you the best dekkalife !


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## dekkalife (Aug 21, 2015)

Carrots seem to be ok, as well as water kefir. I've had some gluten free donuts with chia seeds and was fine.

I have 2 implants in the freezer that I'm saving for if I need to go on antibiotics for any reason.

There are a few people that have commented favorably on Taymount's Facebook page that were having treatment when I was there, that don't appear to be members here. So I think a lot of people are just unaware of this forum.


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## acureisoutthere (Jun 28, 2014)

Thanks for the tip dekkalife. I never thought of checking their Facebook page. I can tell that you've done quite a bit of research into these facilities that do FMTs. Good for you. It's really nice to hear your input.

I still have trouble with dairy. I tried something last weekend. I fasted all day Saturday. Nothing except water, until around 4:30 pm. Then, I had some lasagne with cheese and some cooked vegetables, and some home made kimchi. Usually, I would notice looser stools after eating dairy, but this time, no issues what so ever. I'll continue to experiment to see if I can learn anything, and perhaps get dairy back (with no problems at all).

I've been wondering for sometime if a period of fasting would be helpful in establishing new species in our gut microbiome. Given that it is a 'war zone' so to speak, with existing species trying to out compete newcomers. Sure, the microbiome changes rapidly, as we change our diet (this is well known), but the billion dollar question is how do we restore species, after a course of antibiotics ? Everybody is going to want this answer someday. Right now the conventional wisdom is to take some probiotics. The trouble with that, is they don't implant, and also (so I was told by a microbiome researcher) that most of the species in common probiotics do not even normally colonize the gut. So, probiotics, right now, aren't really the answer, but do seem to promote a homeostasis or beneficial affect anyhow.

Maybe, it's fasting and then eating fresh picked fruits and fresh picked vegetables, nuts and seeds ? I hope to see some research on this, someday.


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## dekkalife (Aug 21, 2015)

*Update*

As of last Thursday, I was still experiencing that dip the clinic warned me of. I was nearly out of my GOS prebiotic supplement, so I did a bit of research because I wanted to try something else. I narrowed it down to Heather's Tummy Fibers (Acacia Gum/Gum Arabic/Senegal Fiber), Citrucel (Methylcellulose), and Sunfiber (Partially Hydrolyzed Guar Gum/PHGG). In the end, I chose Sunfiber.

I took half a teaspoon, mixed in water, just before dinner. I noticed a little more gas and bloating than I otherwise would have that night, but the next day, I had one big, clean, Bristol type 4 movement. Besides a bit of gas, pressure and bloating, I didn't really feel the urge to go again all day. The day before I had eaten oats and sliced banana for breakfast, cheese and turkey sandwich on gluten free bread for lunch, granola bar and Greek yogurt for a snack, diced chicken breast in Nando's Medium sauce (containing vinegar, onion, lemon, garlic, chili) with rice and carrots for dinner, and gluten free waffles with maple syrup and another Greek yogurt for dessert. So as you can see, there are a lot of potential trigger foods in there.

A bigger test was last night. My housemate was making curry and offered to make me some too. He's an executive chef, so I knew it was going to be good. I agreed, fully expecting that my gut would not be able to handle it yet. I took a full teaspoon of Sunfiber before dinner this time. The curry contained tomatoes, coconut milk, onion, garlic, turmeric, chilli, sweet potatoes, basically everything that could make me sick. In hindsight, it was a stupid idea, because if I had a problem with it, I'd have no idea which ingredients caused it. But I didn't have a problem with it. Another type 4.

Full disclosure, I am still taking one Imodium before breakfast and before dinner, but I've been doing that the last few years, so I think these results are positive regardless.


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## JoeDirt (Oct 21, 2017)

If you stop taking Imodium do you still get diarrhea? If you do, does that mean the FMT didn't cure you of IBS but just improved your symptoms?


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## acureisoutthere (Jun 28, 2014)

Very encouraging news dekkalife !

Thank you very, very much for the update.

If I understand correctly, these foods caused you problems before the FMT, in spite of taking the immodium ?

I keep wishing for you the success I have found my freind.


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## dekkalife (Aug 21, 2015)

JoeDirt said:


> If you stop taking Imodium do you still get diarrhea? If you do, does that mean the FMT didn't cure you of IBS but just improved your symptoms?


I tried stopping the Imodium shortly after the FMT, and my stool wasn't great. That must have been nearly two months ago, so maybe I'd fare differently now. My symptoms have improved, and from the research I've done, FMT rarely results in an instant cure for IBS. It can take many months, so I'm not ready to make that judgement yet.



acureisoutthere said:


> Very encouraging news dekkalife !
> 
> Thank you very, very much for the update.
> 
> ...


Thank you. Yes, those foods would cause problems prior to the FMT despite the Imodium.


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## Frenchneedyou (Jun 10, 2017)

Well, by "curiosity" i looked how much money it will cost me if i go to taymoun UK for 2 weeks:

6198 euros on total.

Train ticket to london:
358 euros

taymount.com programme:
£3960 => 4510 euros

London to Hertfordshire:
taxi: 140 euros
train: 25 euros

Hostel:
50 euros * 17 = 850 euros
Free breakfest

Foods:
20 euros each days (340 euros)

358+4510+140+850+340 = 6198 euros

If i had money, it would not be a problem but i haven't... I'm a 23 years old who don't work and i failed my school because of this. I'm sick every day of my life so i can't do ######... And it's not sure to be cured... I'm more and more desperate. One day, when i will be tired of all of this, i will end it.


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## MaximilianKohler (Apr 15, 2013)

Yeah, Frenchneedyou, your best bet is likely using whatever avenues you can think of to try and find your own donor.

I have very severe CFS so I'm not able to often do it, but passing out flyers was my main avenue to find a donor.


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## Frenchneedyou (Jun 10, 2017)

MaximilianKohler said:


> Yeah, Frenchneedyou, your best bet is likely using whatever avenues you can think of to try and find your own donor.
> 
> I have very severe CFS so I'm not able to often do it, but passing out flyers was my main avenue to find a donor.


Well, when you live in a big rich country, it's very frustating to end up asking for poop and trying to inject it yourself...


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## MaximilianKohler (Apr 15, 2013)

Frenchneedyou said:


> Well, when you live in a big rich country, it's very frustating to end up asking for poop and trying to inject it yourself...


I know, I'm in the same position. Using flyers is what I've found to be the easiest way, but not necessarily effective. It seems most people don't care, even if you offer money.


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## London83 (Jan 12, 2016)

Hi,

Did anyone experience burning sensation in the anus after FMT?

I had my FMT half year ago but I still have burning sensation after almost every passing stool.


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## ♧Pandora☆ (Jun 23, 2017)

French, just a suggestion, if you want to try a treatment but can't afford it, have you considered setting up a page like go fund me, explaining why you want/need it, how much treatment is etc, why you cant afford it yourself (as your so ill you haven't been able to work) 
I was so close to setting one up but i found someone near me in uk, instead of Florida where i was going to go☘


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## acureisoutthere (Jun 28, 2014)

Dekkalife,

I was just wondering how you are doing ?

I think it is real important to stay away from processed foods after an FMT. Research has shown that emulsifiers can cause chronic inflammation in the gut. The trouble is, they are in many products, and have different names. I am trying to make my own bread and I found a no-knead recipe on Youtube that is wonderful. It's easy, and I can reduce the salt, which is a benefit for me. The preservatives in processed foods have also been shown to be killing our beneficial bacteria (recent study that was done in Hawaii).

I'm even learning to make my own salad dressing, just to avoid emulsifiers. The American Gastroenterological Association is taking a look at emulsifiers, right now. I would avoid them (they are even in cosmetics).

We know that fiber feeds our good bacteria of our human microbiome. Very important. So, if one can tolerate them, then fiber should be included in your daily diet. I often recommend Dr. Robynne Chutkan's book, "The Microbiome Solution". Her advice agrees with the advice from Dr. Lita Proctor, head of the NIH, Human Microbiome division. So, if you can tolerate them dekkalife, I would include a variety of fresh fruits, fresh vegetables, prebiotic foods, probiotic foods (such as home-made sauerkraut or kimchi), and indigestible carbohydrates (such as cooked lentils or beans) in your daily diet. A daily exercise program should be helpful also. I believe your flora will continue to improve if you follow this.

No, I didn't experience a burning sensation after my FMT.

I think my stools are even better now than in the month after my FMT in April, 2015. Just my opinion. I have tried several periods of fasting for 20 hours, and then a diet of a large variety of fresh fruits and vegetables, homemade kimchi, cooked beans, and some raw goat milk cheese, and/or a yogurt with 10 active strains. It seems that this has been helpful. (I realize that this may not work well for someone with IBS).


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## MaximilianKohler (Apr 15, 2013)

London83 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Did anyone experience burning sensation in the anus after FMT?
> 
> I had my FMT half year ago but I still have burning sensation after almost every passing stool.


Can you give more info about your condition that you were trying to treat, the other results (besides burning) from the FMT, and donor & procedure quality?

Typically I would say detriments like that are from low donor quality, so I'm curious how much your original condition has changed.


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## dekkalife (Aug 21, 2015)

There has not been a significant improvement in my IBS, post-treatment. I would say that my bad days are not as bad, but my average days are about the same. I'm continuing with the varied diet, and I've recently upped my Imodium dosage and am feeling a bit better because of it.

I personally don't believe my results are a bad reflection on The Taymount Clinic. There was never any guarantee that my IBS is bacteria/dysbiosis related, therefore it was always a bit of a gamble. DIY FMT didn't do much either, so I just don't think it's my answer.


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## MaximilianKohler (Apr 15, 2013)

dekkalife said:


> I personally don't believe my results are a bad reflection on The Taymount Clinic. There was never any guarantee that my IBS is bacteria/dysbiosis related, therefore it was always a bit of a gamble. DIY FMT didn't do much either, so I just don't think it's my answer.


To those of us who are completely sure that IBS is caused by dysbiosis, your experience definitely supports the notion that Taymount's donors, and possibly procedural details, are lacking.


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## acureisoutthere (Jun 28, 2014)

I was communicating with someone recently that seems familiar with Taymount. They said, "with enough FMTs, and an extended period of time, almost all cases can reverse." and "The biggest mistake is not doing enough implants".

It sounds like everyone is different. They said, "Some need only ten, while others may need 50". We keep learning I guess. I think part of it is overcoming the appendix, which is now thought to be a reservoir for bacteria (seen on the NCBI website).

I sure wish it was easier for everyone. I am sorry to hear your results dekka. My heart goes out to you. Gosh, I sure wish it would have worked for you.

I've been reading so much about the microbiome for the last 4 1/2 years, I am convinced IBS is due to missing species and/or disrupted balances of the bacteria in our digestive tract (dysbosis). But, it seems it is just not always easy to fix it, or to re-set this ecosystem to normal. I've been working on this theory that we each have a "signature" microbiome. We already know that we each have a different microbiome (well almost; one in around 3 thousand is a reasonable match). So, why are we all different ? We're not sure yet. We're trying to figure it out. We know that there is a great deal of communication going on between members of this community (the gut microbiome). There is also a great deal of communication going on between this community and the host human cells. I'm wondering if we develop a "signature" microbiome early in our life, then later when we loose species, this ecosystem expects or 'wants' the missing species back, so it can regain it's earlier 'normal'. I know, I know, this is pure speculation.

I'm confident there are a lot of people trying to figure this out, how this ecosystem works, and why, and how to re-set it back to normal in the best manner possible.

Sometimes I think it would be encouraging to hear from some of Dr. Borody's patients, and of their success.


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## dekkalife (Aug 21, 2015)

MaximilianKohler said:


> To those of us who are completely sure that IBS is caused by dysbiosis, your experience definitely supports the notion that Taymount's donors, and possibly procedural details, are lacking.


That is a mighty big assumption. IBS is an umbrella term for almost any GI complaint that cannot be properly diagnosed, so to suggest that IBS is universally caused by dysbiosis is far-fetched, to say the least. To add, there were patients at the clinic who mentioned that they had noticed a marked improvement. I think some people want to believe that high quality, well delivered FMT is a guaranteed cure, and I think there's a chance that mindset could lead you to significant disappointment.


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## MaximilianKohler (Apr 15, 2013)

Everyone's entitled to their own opinion of course. I've been closely following the research for years, have been solely focused on learning & experimenting with health for over a decade while seeing dozens of doctors, and have experience with numerous donors of varying quality. The difference between donors is extremely dramatic, and many places claiming to have great donor screening processes have been shown to actually be using very low quality donors. There are many of them who either do not understand human health & the gut microbiome, or are simply unable to procure high quality donors (IE: top athletes). To me it seems absurd to hear the suggestion that something other than gut dysbiosis is the cause for IBS. I would like to hear some examples of other things it might be.


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## flossy (Dec 8, 2012)

dekkalife said:


> There has not been a significant improvement in my IBS, post-treatment. I would say that my bad days are not as bad, but my average days are about the same. I'm continuing with the varied diet, and I've recently upped my Imodium dosage and am feeling a bit better because of it.
> 
> I personally don't believe my results are a bad reflection on The Taymount Clinic. There was never any guarantee that my IBS is bacteria/dysbiosis related, therefore it was always a bit of a gamble. DIY FMT didn't do much either, so I just don't think it's my answer.


Sorry to hear that dekkalife. That's life sometimes with IBS (sighs).


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## acureisoutthere (Jun 28, 2014)

For anyone wishing to learn about microbiome transplants, here's a new way of looking at it, or doing it.

An armpit microbiome transplant.

I've heard of someone getting rid of an ear infection (after 3 unsuccessful courses of antibiotics), by taking the bacteria from their uninfected right ear on a Q tip and placing it in their infected left ear. The infection was gone in a day or two. But, this is the first time I heard of a microbiome transplant for an armpit. It makes me wonder, will a microbiome transplant be tried someday for skin diseases like psoriasis or rosacea ?

https://www.popsci.com/microbiome-transplant-armpit-body-odor

Has anyone heard of any other types of microbiome transplants ?


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## acureisoutthere (Jun 28, 2014)

For anyone wishing to understand how IBS might be, could be, or just is, connected with disruption of the microbiome, here is an article that discusses it. I know, I know, it is long and full of technical speak. (sorry, I wish it wasn't)

But, it explains it far better than I could.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4734998/

I like to print these studies off. It helps me. I can underline and highlight, and refer back to it also.

I hope that it helps everyone understand IBS better.


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## celestin (May 20, 2004)

Stop it acureisoutthere, please. You are a mythomaniac. For you Lyme disease, ear infection, IBS etc...etc... microbiome transplant is the key for everything.
By the way here is the conclusion of the article you mention :

To date, only anecdotal data have been reported about the efficacy of FMT for IBS treatment, *results being far conclusive*..
...........................................................................

However, many questions should be answered before it may be recommended as routine standard treatment of IBS and *randomized, double-blinded, placebo-controlled trials are required*.


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## MaximilianKohler (Apr 15, 2013)

celestin said:


> Stop it acureisoutthere, please. You are a mythomaniac. For you Lyme disease, ear infection, IBS etc...etc... microbiome transplant is the key for everything.
> By the way here is the conclusion of the article you mention :
> 
> To date, only anecdotal data have been reported about the efficacy of FMT for IBS treatment, *results being far conclusive*..
> ...


acureisoutthere is well informed. In my opinion anyone who is well informed would hold the same stance on the gut microbiome and FMT. Here's some info you should review:

https://www.reddit.com/r/HumanMicrobiome/wiki/index

https://www.reddit.com/r/HumanMicrobiome/wiki/intro


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## celestin (May 20, 2004)

Reddit etc = Nothing

The article, given by acureisoutthere himself is good, JUST READ IT!

An read what it is said about FMT:

To date, only anecdotal data have been reported about the efficacy of FMT for IBS treatment, *results being far conclusive*..
...........................................................................

However, many questions should be answered before it may be recommended as routine standard treatment of IBS and *randomized, double-blinded, placebo-controlled trials are required*.


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## ♧Pandora☆ (Jun 23, 2017)

Loads of people who had ibs (symptoms) got completely cured without an fmt.

I know alot like myself who didn't have probiotics etc included in their healing plan.

I say symptoms as i believe ibs is just a term to cover a group of symptoms.
And most have totally different root causes.


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## MaximilianKohler (Apr 15, 2013)

The article he posted is from 2016 and not up to date. There's much more info in the links I provided including many reviews & clinical trial data for IBS.

Go to the IBS section of the wiki: https://www.reddit.com/r/HumanMicrobiome/wiki/intro#wiki_ibs.3A

And this is one of the many links:

Faecal microbiota transplantation versus placebo for moderate-to-severe irritable bowel syndrome: a double-blind, randomised, placebo-controlled, parallel-group, single-centre trial
15 points 1 comment submitted 3 months ago by MaximilianKohler
Me
IBS-D (Diarrhea) to r/ibs
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/langas/article/PIIS2468-1253(17)30338-2/fulltext

Then if you review the rest of the info in the wiki you will understand why they're not getting 100% results yet from FMT.


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## dekkalife (Aug 21, 2015)

MaximilianKohler said:


> Everyone's entitled to their own opinion of course. I've been closely following the research for years, have been solely focused on learning & experimenting with health for over a decade while seeing dozens of doctors, and have experience with numerous donors of varying quality. The difference between donors is extremely dramatic, and many places claiming to have great donor screening processes have been shown to actually be using very low quality donors. There are many of them who either do not understand human health & the gut microbiome, or are simply unable to procure high quality donors (IE: top athletes). To me it seems absurd to hear the suggestion that something other than gut dysbiosis is the cause for IBS. I would like to hear some examples of other things it might be.


You seem to have a vendetta against FMT clinics, despite not having any first hand experience with them. And a lot of your opinions are based on conjecture. You suggest that the stool quality at FMT clinics are not sufficient, despite not knowing their exact screening and handling process. If you can't find their screening and handling process, you suggest they have something to hide. It's not your blind faith in FMT that worries me. It's your eagerness to discredit FMT clinics without substantial evidence.


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## mellosphere (Sep 22, 2015)

I am going to say that after undergoing diy and clinic versions of FMT, I really dont think its going to be my cure. Yeah ok I know you might say that it was the donor stool or that I didnt have enough samples but its just not helping. My stools have changed but not altogether in a good way. I would have to say that since FMT my stools are overall a little more light brown instead of yellow and 2 out of 3 days my stools look better but my cramps are equally as bad as they were and sometimes I feel like my urgency is worse. I believe this is due to the fact that since FMT I am just ever so slightly less diarrhetic on a normal day but my body seems to interpret that as constipated (when really Im not). Then either the second or third day pretty consistently it sends my body into overdrive diarrhea mode to flush everything out and when that hits I get a really bad pain in my colon and I need a toilet in about 5 minutes or something bad is going to happen. I never had those issues before FMT.


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## MaximilianKohler (Apr 15, 2013)

I don't have a vendetta, and I'm not trying to discredit them. I do not have blind faith in FMT either (it's all based on the research and experience & feedback). On the contrary, I believe too many people have blind faith in the FMT clinics (and doctors in general).

What I do is warn against committing thousands of dollars to these clinics without them verifying donor & procedure quality. As is, they're likely eating up the savings of a lot of desperate, chronically ill people without having sufficient donor & procedure quality. It's extremely problematic & sketchy how these clinics are currently operating - completely in the dark denying anyone the ability to vet their quality. Essentially they are selling something they don't have.

I would LOVE to be able to use one of the FMT clinics. But many patient feedback have shown it is likely to be a waste of money.


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## mellosphere (Sep 22, 2015)

MaximilianKohler said:


> I don't have a vendetta, and I'm not trying to discredit them. I do not have blind faith in FMT either (it's all based on the research and experience & feedback). On the contrary, I believe too many people have blind faith in the FMT clinics (and doctors in general).
> 
> What I do is warn against committing thousands of dollars to these clinics without them verifying donor & procedure quality. As is, they're likely eating up the savings of a lot of desperate, chronically ill people without having sufficient donor & procedure quality. It's extremely problematic & sketchy how these clinics are currently operating - completely in the dark denying anyone the ability to vet their quality.
> 
> I would LOVE to be able to use one of the FMT clinics. But many patient feedback have shown it is likely to be a waste of money.


I would agree for me at this point it was a waste of money. However, I had to try it to know...seems like it has worked for enough people that i wouldnt have been satisfied until i knew if it would help me.


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## mellosphere (Sep 22, 2015)

I am totally one of those desperate patients using my savings on possible ibs treatments. Ibs-d really messes with a persons life.


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## MaximilianKohler (Apr 15, 2013)

I totally agree and empathize with you mello, and I really appreciate the fact that you spent the money to find out so others like me wouldn't have to. I have been close to death so often and am extremely desperate. So again, I truly wish these clinics actually had high quality donors and ideal procedural details so they would be able to save my life.

One thing lacking from these reports is mention/questions to the clinic regarding stool consistency (IE: bristol stool chart). No one has verified the stool quality of any of the clinic's donors, which still leaves some major questions.


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## acureisoutthere (Jun 28, 2014)

Did anyone see on page 3, under the paragraph 'Perturbaton in microbiota composition' the following ;

"perturbations in the intestinal microbiota have being linked to the pathophysiology of IBS"

and

"it has been demonstrated that the diversity of microbial population is reduced, the proportion of specific bacterial groups is altered and the degree of variability in the microbiota composition is different in IBS patients when compared with healthy subjects"

and

"the Rome Team Working Group has recently concluded that there is good evidence supporting the concept that the intestinal microbiota is perturbed in patients with IBS"

My posting was about trying to show whether or not there was a connection with IBS and a disruption of the microbiome. It seems that the above quotes might be helpful ?

I fully agree that several more trials are necessary before FMT for IBS becomes a standard treatment. My heart goes out to everyone that suffers from this disease. I am so thankful to the doctors that are working on solving this. IBS is a challenge.

I repeat,,,, my posting was about trying to show whether or not there was a connection with IBS and a disruption of the microbiome. Does this seem logical after reading the article ?


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## dekkalife (Aug 21, 2015)

MaximilianKohler said:


> I totally agree and empathize with you mello, and I really appreciate the fact that you spent the money to find out so others like me wouldn't have to. I have been close to death so often and am extremely desperate. *So again, I truly wish these clinics actually had high quality donors and ideal procedural details so they would be able to save my life.*
> 
> One thing lacking from these reports is mention/questions to the clinic regarding stool consistency (IE: bristol stool chart). No one has verified the stool quality of any of the clinic's donors, which still leaves some major questions.


Again, without hesitation, you make claims with no substantial evidence. You have no way in knowing these clinic's stool quality. You can make guesses based on what you've read online, but you don't know.


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## MaximilianKohler (Apr 15, 2013)

dekkalife said:


> Again, without hesitation, you make claims with no substantial evidence. You have no way in knowing these clinic's stool quality. You can make guesses based on what you've read online, but you don't know.


You misunderstand. You're absolutely right that I don't know what the clinic's stool quality is. I've been trying to find out and encourage others to try as well. I'm primarily saying the onus is on them to prove to patients that they have high quality donors. None of these clinics that I've contacted have been willing to do that. The evidence against them is mounting from failed case reports.


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## dekkalife (Aug 21, 2015)

You just stated that "...I truly wish these clinics actually had high quality donors..." followed by "...I don't know what the clinic's stool quality is" which directly contradicts previous claims, by you, that these clinic's have poor quality stool. I don't think it's me that doesn't understand.

You're personally unable to access clinical information on things like donor selection, so you claim their stool quality is low. That's an assumption, not truth. Spreading misinformation doesn't help anyone.


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## sashakaganovich (Dec 29, 2018)

Just had my FMT treatment at Taymount. I'd be happy to share my experience if anyone is interested.


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## MaximilianKohler (Apr 15, 2013)

sashakaganovich said:


> Just had my FMT treatment at Taymount. I'd be happy to share my experience if anyone is interested.


Yep, definitely. Doing it in a new thread would be better I think. In the FMT section too: https://www.ibsgroup.org/forums/forum/100-fecal-microbiota-transplantation-fmt/


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