# Aspartame



## LisaL (Nov 14, 2000)

If sugar does not bother my IBS (gas and C), should aspartame also be ok? I cannot figure out if sugar is in fact one of my triggers, but assuming it's not, would aspartame have the same effect or non-effect?(whew...how convoluted was that!)Lisa


----------



## JenS (Dec 18, 2000)

No one can really answer that but yourself. It will be trail and error until you firgure it out. Good luck.


----------



## JenS (Dec 18, 2000)

No one can really answer that but yourself. It will be trail and error until you firgure it out. Good luck.


----------



## LisaL (Nov 14, 2000)

Thanks Jen.KMottus? Any thoughts?


----------



## LisaL (Nov 14, 2000)

Thanks Jen.KMottus? Any thoughts?


----------



## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Aspartame is a very different chemical structure from sugar or the sugar alcohols so it would be hard to predict whether it would have the same effect.Asparatame is made from two amino acids hooked together. One of thos is phenylalanine and people with a certain genetic problem PKU should avoid it, particularly when a child, or when pregnant (you would know if you have this as you would have been on a very restricted diet as a child to prevent fatal brain damage and they test all kids--in the US at least--for this).A sugar alcohol like sorbitol or manitol is a sugar molecule that has an -OH group added to it, so it is sturcturally like a sugar (and is perceived as sweet) but we don't metabolize them so they are lower in calories.K.K.------------------ï¿½When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fallï¿½Think of it, ALWAYS. ï¿½Mahatma GandhiMy story and what worked for me in greatly easing my IBS: http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/Forum17/HTML/000015.html I do not work for anyone who sells any IBS related products.


----------



## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Aspartame is a very different chemical structure from sugar or the sugar alcohols so it would be hard to predict whether it would have the same effect.Asparatame is made from two amino acids hooked together. One of thos is phenylalanine and people with a certain genetic problem PKU should avoid it, particularly when a child, or when pregnant (you would know if you have this as you would have been on a very restricted diet as a child to prevent fatal brain damage and they test all kids--in the US at least--for this).A sugar alcohol like sorbitol or manitol is a sugar molecule that has an -OH group added to it, so it is sturcturally like a sugar (and is perceived as sweet) but we don't metabolize them so they are lower in calories.K.K.------------------ï¿½When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fallï¿½Think of it, ALWAYS. ï¿½Mahatma GandhiMy story and what worked for me in greatly easing my IBS: http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/Forum17/HTML/000015.html I do not work for anyone who sells any IBS related products.


----------



## Guest (Sep 18, 2001)

I can eat sugar but not aspartame. Hope that helps!


----------



## Guest (Sep 18, 2001)

I can eat sugar but not aspartame. Hope that helps!


----------



## cindy80004 (May 1, 2001)

Aspertame makes me really sick and I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole.....but I can eat sugar. Go figure. Cindy


----------



## cindy80004 (May 1, 2001)

Aspertame makes me really sick and I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole.....but I can eat sugar. Go figure. Cindy


----------



## Julia37 (May 9, 2001)

Sugar is one of my triggers, but aspartame usually doesn't bother me.The only time I've noticed a problem with aspartame is if I've eaten it every day for a few days, it seems to make me nauseous.I've been trying stevia and so far that hasn't caused me any pain.


----------



## Julia37 (May 9, 2001)

Sugar is one of my triggers, but aspartame usually doesn't bother me.The only time I've noticed a problem with aspartame is if I've eaten it every day for a few days, it seems to make me nauseous.I've been trying stevia and so far that hasn't caused me any pain.


----------



## rachelclare (Sep 16, 2001)

I am wondering about aspartame. I found a website (sorry can't remember what)where a guy had written much disparaging about aspartame. I think it may be a problem for me so I shall stop and let you know. I think the website was found under "gastro"and that the guys name was Dave Koetz or something similar.It certainly implied that it is not a gift from god for slimmers but closer to a poison.


----------



## rachelclare (Sep 16, 2001)

I am wondering about aspartame. I found a website (sorry can't remember what)where a guy had written much disparaging about aspartame. I think it may be a problem for me so I shall stop and let you know. I think the website was found under "gastro"and that the guys name was Dave Koetz or something similar.It certainly implied that it is not a gift from god for slimmers but closer to a poison.


----------



## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:It certainly implied that it is not a gift from god for slimmers but closer to a poison.


It ain't true. Some people have a problem with the fruits of our modern society. These includes things such as fluoride, vaccination, mercury fillings and aspartame. All of these things are pretty safe with few exceptions.------------------I am not a doctor, nor do I work for profit in the medical/pharmacological field, but I have read scientific and medical texts, and have access to numerous sources of medical information that are not readily available to others. One should always consult a medical professional regarding advice received.[This message has been edited by flux (edited 09-26-2001).]


----------



## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:It certainly implied that it is not a gift from god for slimmers but closer to a poison.


It ain't true. Some people have a problem with the fruits of our modern society. These includes things such as fluoride, vaccination, mercury fillings and aspartame. All of these things are pretty safe with few exceptions.------------------I am not a doctor, nor do I work for profit in the medical/pharmacological field, but I have read scientific and medical texts, and have access to numerous sources of medical information that are not readily available to others. One should always consult a medical professional regarding advice received.[This message has been edited by flux (edited 09-26-2001).]


----------



## scottyswotty (Jun 29, 2000)

> quote:These includes things such as fluoride, vaccination, mercury fillings and aspartame. All of these things are pretty safe with few exceptions.


For an alternative view, this statement by Flux is nonsense on stilts. Don't go near the stuff. Nor mercury for that matter. Grrrr.


----------



## scottyswotty (Jun 29, 2000)

> quote:These includes things such as fluoride, vaccination, mercury fillings and aspartame. All of these things are pretty safe with few exceptions.


For an alternative view, this statement by Flux is nonsense on stilts. Don't go near the stuff. Nor mercury for that matter. Grrrr.


----------



## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:For an alternative view, this statement by Flux is nonsense on stilts. Don't go near the stuff. Nor mercury for that matter. Grrrr.


Both aspartame and mercury fillings are very *safe*. The above statement is purely







------------------I am not a doctor, nor do I work for profit in the medical/pharmacological field, but I have read scientific and medical texts, and have access to numerous sources of medical information that are not readily available to others. One should always consult a medical professional regarding advice received.


----------



## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:For an alternative view, this statement by Flux is nonsense on stilts. Don't go near the stuff. Nor mercury for that matter. Grrrr.


Both aspartame and mercury fillings are very *safe*. The above statement is purely







------------------I am not a doctor, nor do I work for profit in the medical/pharmacological field, but I have read scientific and medical texts, and have access to numerous sources of medical information that are not readily available to others. One should always consult a medical professional regarding advice received.


----------



## Sabrina (Mar 20, 2001)

Aspartane gives me diareha big time. Can't chew sugarless gum, eat sugarfree yogurt or diet cokes.


----------



## Sabrina (Mar 20, 2001)

Aspartane gives me diareha big time. Can't chew sugarless gum, eat sugarfree yogurt or diet cokes.


----------



## linr (May 18, 2000)

I can eat sugar but not aspartame or any other artificial sweetener.I get a major stomachache and usually D.


----------



## linr (May 18, 2000)

I can eat sugar but not aspartame or any other artificial sweetener.I get a major stomachache and usually D.


----------



## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Sugarless gums may be a sugar alcohol problem rather than aspartame. Most of them use sorbitol or mannitol as sweeteners.Sugar alcohol's are known to cause diarrhea in some people.If the sugarless gum brands you chewed contained sorbitol you may also want to avoid raw apples, peaches, pears, appricots plums and prunes as they all naturally contain sorbitol, as well as avoiding juices that either are predominately this, or use apple or pear juice as a sweetener (alot of 100% juices use these to sweeten them).K.------------------ï¿½When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fallï¿½Think of it, ALWAYS. ï¿½Mahatma GandhiMy story and what worked for me in greatly easing my IBS: http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/Forum17/HTML/000015.html I do not work for anyone who sells any IBS related products.


----------



## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Sugarless gums may be a sugar alcohol problem rather than aspartame. Most of them use sorbitol or mannitol as sweeteners.Sugar alcohol's are known to cause diarrhea in some people.If the sugarless gum brands you chewed contained sorbitol you may also want to avoid raw apples, peaches, pears, appricots plums and prunes as they all naturally contain sorbitol, as well as avoiding juices that either are predominately this, or use apple or pear juice as a sweetener (alot of 100% juices use these to sweeten them).K.------------------ï¿½When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fallï¿½Think of it, ALWAYS. ï¿½Mahatma GandhiMy story and what worked for me in greatly easing my IBS: http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/Forum17/HTML/000015.html I do not work for anyone who sells any IBS related products.


----------



## scottyswotty (Jun 29, 2000)

Once again. Don't listen to Flux's one sided views without a grain of salt. He acknowledges in his disclaimer that he only knows medical texts. Caveat Emptor


----------



## scottyswotty (Jun 29, 2000)

Once again. Don't listen to Flux's one sided views without a grain of salt. He acknowledges in his disclaimer that he only knows medical texts. Caveat Emptor


----------



## Jeffrey Roberts (Apr 15, 1987)

> quote:It ain't true. Some people have a problem with the fruits of our modern society. These includes things such as fluoride, vaccination, mercury fillings and aspartame. All of these things are pretty safe with few exceptions.


I was kind of confused by what you said Flux and perhaps that led to some other peoples confusion. Could you please re-phrase so we don't start these petty battle of words.


----------



## Jeffrey Roberts (Apr 15, 1987)

> quote:It ain't true. Some people have a problem with the fruits of our modern society. These includes things such as fluoride, vaccination, mercury fillings and aspartame. All of these things are pretty safe with few exceptions.


I was kind of confused by what you said Flux and perhaps that led to some other peoples confusion. Could you please re-phrase so we don't start these petty battle of words.


----------



## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:I was kind of confused by what you said Flux and perhaps that led to some other peoples confusion. Could you please re-phrase so we don't start these petty battle of words.


I believe that some people have a special affinity for nature and the ways of life before the Industrial Revolution. But they are also not too happy with the inventions of modern society. The Luddites during the Industrial Revolution might be an example and an extreme present-day example might be the Unabomber. In this particular reference, there are some who are unhappy with synthesized chemicals which these people perceive as being dangerous because they don't come from nature. Vaccinations to prevent communicable disease, fluoride to prevent tooth decay, mercury fillings and aspartame (which is really a chemical food additive) are all perceived as examples of this. Their beliefs are not grounded in fact but in their unhappiness with the abandonment of a pre-modern, closer to nature and simpler lifestyle. Some of them use the Internet, which is in a sense the antithesis of their ideals, to spread their beliefs. Unfortunately, not everyone who reads this information is aware that these people are spreading false information and they accept it at face value, so some here occasionally relay what they might think is good information to the BB.An example of the misinformation claiming aspartame is a poison was a bogus letter that posted on the Internet some time ago... http://nancymarkle.com/betty/betty.html ------------------I am not a doctor, nor do I work for profit in the medical/pharmacological field, but I have read scientific and medical texts, and have access to numerous sources of medical information that are not readily available to others. One should always consult a medical professional regarding advice received.[This message has been edited by flux (edited 09-27-2001).]


----------



## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:I was kind of confused by what you said Flux and perhaps that led to some other peoples confusion. Could you please re-phrase so we don't start these petty battle of words.


I believe that some people have a special affinity for nature and the ways of life before the Industrial Revolution. But they are also not too happy with the inventions of modern society. The Luddites during the Industrial Revolution might be an example and an extreme present-day example might be the Unabomber. In this particular reference, there are some who are unhappy with synthesized chemicals which these people perceive as being dangerous because they don't come from nature. Vaccinations to prevent communicable disease, fluoride to prevent tooth decay, mercury fillings and aspartame (which is really a chemical food additive) are all perceived as examples of this. Their beliefs are not grounded in fact but in their unhappiness with the abandonment of a pre-modern, closer to nature and simpler lifestyle. Some of them use the Internet, which is in a sense the antithesis of their ideals, to spread their beliefs. Unfortunately, not everyone who reads this information is aware that these people are spreading false information and they accept it at face value, so some here occasionally relay what they might think is good information to the BB.An example of the misinformation claiming aspartame is a poison was a bogus letter that posted on the Internet some time ago... http://nancymarkle.com/betty/betty.html ------------------I am not a doctor, nor do I work for profit in the medical/pharmacological field, but I have read scientific and medical texts, and have access to numerous sources of medical information that are not readily available to others. One should always consult a medical professional regarding advice received.[This message has been edited by flux (edited 09-27-2001).]


----------



## scottyswotty (Jun 29, 2000)

Flux raises a valid point in that if your purpose or intent in slamming the consumption of such chemicals is truly an underlying aversion to technology or future advancements then he may slam you.These concerns do not sit with me and most people who crticise the use of such chemicals. Flux's comments are essentially redundant therefore and he wastes time in only referring to, as he quotes, "the extreme", such as the unabomber.In fact I find his beliefs very hypocritical of what he just said. Such chemical weren't developed for use with health of humans in mind. They were developed in industrial ages to fit a use. My concerns now come from understandings that have been developed successive to such developments that point to the highly toxic effects of such substances. www.nziim.org.nz. Flux bases his or her views from he or she has read in medical texts. No doubt people value Flux (for his ability to read). But please don't fall into the trap of taking the texts as gospel. Do your texts detail future understandings that weren't around at the time of printing? I THINK NOT! A couple of Medical studies might be undertaken based on a method that is so ill designed to understand how the body has been affected that they are bound to come up with nil conclusions. Mercury (even in filling sized amounts in amalgam) has a very adverse effect in the body and remains in the soft tissue even after one gets their fillings removed. Rubbish that all you want. May you be the only one in the world who doesn't suffer from Mercury fillings or aspartame. However I don't see anything special in you.Get real if you are bothering to infer that someone like me is scared of industrial or future change. I think it is you stuck in the dark ages.ScottySwotty (not from just half the material out there)[This message has been edited by scottyswotty (edited 09-27-2001).]


----------



## scottyswotty (Jun 29, 2000)

Flux raises a valid point in that if your purpose or intent in slamming the consumption of such chemicals is truly an underlying aversion to technology or future advancements then he may slam you.These concerns do not sit with me and most people who crticise the use of such chemicals. Flux's comments are essentially redundant therefore and he wastes time in only referring to, as he quotes, "the extreme", such as the unabomber.In fact I find his beliefs very hypocritical of what he just said. Such chemical weren't developed for use with health of humans in mind. They were developed in industrial ages to fit a use. My concerns now come from understandings that have been developed successive to such developments that point to the highly toxic effects of such substances. www.nziim.org.nz. Flux bases his or her views from he or she has read in medical texts. No doubt people value Flux (for his ability to read). But please don't fall into the trap of taking the texts as gospel. Do your texts detail future understandings that weren't around at the time of printing? I THINK NOT! A couple of Medical studies might be undertaken based on a method that is so ill designed to understand how the body has been affected that they are bound to come up with nil conclusions. Mercury (even in filling sized amounts in amalgam) has a very adverse effect in the body and remains in the soft tissue even after one gets their fillings removed. Rubbish that all you want. May you be the only one in the world who doesn't suffer from Mercury fillings or aspartame. However I don't see anything special in you.Get real if you are bothering to infer that someone like me is scared of industrial or future change. I think it is you stuck in the dark ages.ScottySwotty (not from just half the material out there)[This message has been edited by scottyswotty (edited 09-27-2001).]


----------



## rachelclare (Sep 16, 2001)

Re: flux's comments.So many times we find out 'safe' chemicals are no longer so. As a slimmer life without aspartame products is going to be much harder so I would rather have it than not but constantly this is questioned as a safe 'chemical'. You have to at least consider both sides of the argument. Companies make massive amounts of money by selling slimming products it is in their interest for you to think they are safe but we constantly find that chemicals in the human body react differently to the chemicals pumped into lab rats. Weren't women prescribed Thalidamide told it was safe? Just be open to information thats all I am saying.


----------



## rachelclare (Sep 16, 2001)

Re: flux's comments.So many times we find out 'safe' chemicals are no longer so. As a slimmer life without aspartame products is going to be much harder so I would rather have it than not but constantly this is questioned as a safe 'chemical'. You have to at least consider both sides of the argument. Companies make massive amounts of money by selling slimming products it is in their interest for you to think they are safe but we constantly find that chemicals in the human body react differently to the chemicals pumped into lab rats. Weren't women prescribed Thalidamide told it was safe? Just be open to information thats all I am saying.


----------



## dianne (Jan 16, 2000)

rachelclare, if you want a wonderful, safe and natural no calorie sweetener search for Stevia on the internet .. or try your local health food store.It is the sweetest plant on earth, first grown in Sth America -- available all over the world and used in Japan for all their diet foods. (No, they don't use aspartame as they think it is toxic. And I don't know the Japanese translation of Luddite so perhaps they don't know what Flux thinks about them. )Even more, stevia is a herb specific to liver function and therefore perfect for diabetics of all ages.It comes in leaf, powder or liquid form == I think the liquid is best. It's affordable and economic as only one or two drops can sweeten a whole bottle of water with a squeeze of lemon juice for delicious lemonade.Sadly, stevia is little know in the United States due to incredulous lobbying by artificial sweetener manufacturers. In fact, even publishing the word "stevia" was illegal until just two or three years ago !! Can you believe that !! There were a books taken from a Texas ( I think) health store that were burned in the street by Govt agents because they contained the word "stevia"... and that was in the last five or six years. Go figure.Anyway -- enjoy stevia as mother nature's perfect gift to your good self. Kind thoughts to you allDianne


----------



## dianne (Jan 16, 2000)

rachelclare, if you want a wonderful, safe and natural no calorie sweetener search for Stevia on the internet .. or try your local health food store.It is the sweetest plant on earth, first grown in Sth America -- available all over the world and used in Japan for all their diet foods. (No, they don't use aspartame as they think it is toxic. And I don't know the Japanese translation of Luddite so perhaps they don't know what Flux thinks about them. )Even more, stevia is a herb specific to liver function and therefore perfect for diabetics of all ages.It comes in leaf, powder or liquid form == I think the liquid is best. It's affordable and economic as only one or two drops can sweeten a whole bottle of water with a squeeze of lemon juice for delicious lemonade.Sadly, stevia is little know in the United States due to incredulous lobbying by artificial sweetener manufacturers. In fact, even publishing the word "stevia" was illegal until just two or three years ago !! Can you believe that !! There were a books taken from a Texas ( I think) health store that were burned in the street by Govt agents because they contained the word "stevia"... and that was in the last five or six years. Go figure.Anyway -- enjoy stevia as mother nature's perfect gift to your good self. Kind thoughts to you allDianne


----------



## harmonize (Sep 10, 2001)

Interesting! I got my smile for the day! I.B.S. as well as most I.B.D. sufferers seem to do better with single sugars- too complicated to explain here. The only two simple sugars are pure honey and saccharin. We hear lots of adverse critism re saccharin, I know. However, it does the job and recent research tells us that it is not as bad as once was believed. I use those two things on the specific carbohydrate diet with great success.


----------



## harmonize (Sep 10, 2001)

Interesting! I got my smile for the day! I.B.S. as well as most I.B.D. sufferers seem to do better with single sugars- too complicated to explain here. The only two simple sugars are pure honey and saccharin. We hear lots of adverse critism re saccharin, I know. However, it does the job and recent research tells us that it is not as bad as once was believed. I use those two things on the specific carbohydrate diet with great success.


----------



## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:Mercury (even in filling sized amounts in amalgam) has a very adverse effect in the body


There doesn't appear to be any adverse effect at this level, which happens to be all around us. (We are all here aren't we?) Fillings don't add to the level anyway, so it's an irrelevant point.


> quote:You have to at least consider both sides of the argument


There never was any evidence presented that questioned aspartame's safety, though.


> quote: I.B.S. as well as most I.B.D. sufferers seem to do better with single sugars- too complicated to explain here


You'd have to first demonstrate it's true. There are certainly some people here who won't accept it







------------------I am not a doctor, nor do I work for profit in the medical/pharmacological field, but I have read scientific and medical texts, and have access to numerous sources of medical information that are not readily available to others. One should always consult a medical professional regarding advice received.


----------



## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:Mercury (even in filling sized amounts in amalgam) has a very adverse effect in the body


There doesn't appear to be any adverse effect at this level, which happens to be all around us. (We are all here aren't we?) Fillings don't add to the level anyway, so it's an irrelevant point.


> quote:You have to at least consider both sides of the argument


There never was any evidence presented that questioned aspartame's safety, though.


> quote: I.B.S. as well as most I.B.D. sufferers seem to do better with single sugars- too complicated to explain here


You'd have to first demonstrate it's true. There are certainly some people here who won't accept it







------------------I am not a doctor, nor do I work for profit in the medical/pharmacological field, but I have read scientific and medical texts, and have access to numerous sources of medical information that are not readily available to others. One should always consult a medical professional regarding advice received.


----------



## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Honey is mostly fructose.Many IBSers find fructose bothersome. Possibly because some people cannot absorb it so it feeds the colonic bacteria which can contribute to diarrhea and gas.K.------------------ï¿½When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fallï¿½Think of it, ALWAYS. ï¿½Mahatma GandhiMy story and what worked for me in greatly easing my IBS: http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/Forum17/HTML/000015.html I do not work for anyone who sells any IBS related products.


----------



## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Honey is mostly fructose.Many IBSers find fructose bothersome. Possibly because some people cannot absorb it so it feeds the colonic bacteria which can contribute to diarrhea and gas.K.------------------ï¿½When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fallï¿½Think of it, ALWAYS. ï¿½Mahatma GandhiMy story and what worked for me in greatly easing my IBS: http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/Forum17/HTML/000015.html I do not work for anyone who sells any IBS related products.


----------



## wyze88 (Jun 13, 2000)

aspartame safe ? must be the joke of the week. http://www.stevia.net/aspartame.htm


----------



## wyze88 (Jun 13, 2000)

aspartame safe ? must be the joke of the week. http://www.stevia.net/aspartame.htm


----------



## wyze88 (Jun 13, 2000)

flux, did you actually read the site you posted ?It's as damning of aspartame as anything you could find. Thanks for posting it.-------------------------------------------- flux : An example of the misinformation claiming aspartame is a poison was a bogus letter that posted on the Internet some time ago... http://nancymarkle.com/betty/betty.html --------------------------------------------


----------



## wyze88 (Jun 13, 2000)

flux, did you actually read the site you posted ?It's as damning of aspartame as anything you could find. Thanks for posting it.-------------------------------------------- flux : An example of the misinformation claiming aspartame is a poison was a bogus letter that posted on the Internet some time ago... http://nancymarkle.com/betty/betty.html --------------------------------------------


----------



## wyze88 (Jun 13, 2000)

Anyone going to read the url above, be sure to read all the way down the page to read this was NOT a bogus letter at all; exactly the opposite in fact.Thanks again flux.


----------



## wyze88 (Jun 13, 2000)

Anyone going to read the url above, be sure to read all the way down the page to read this was NOT a bogus letter at all; exactly the opposite in fact.Thanks again flux.


----------



## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:Anyone going to read the url above, be sure to read all the way down the page to read this was NOT a bogus letter at all;


You've been hornswoggled.------------------I am not a doctor, nor do I work for profit in the medical/pharmacological field, but I have read scientific and medical texts, and have access to numerous sources of medical information that are not readily available to others. One should always consult a medical professional regarding advice received.[This message has been edited by flux (edited 09-27-2001).]


----------



## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:Anyone going to read the url above, be sure to read all the way down the page to read this was NOT a bogus letter at all;


You've been hornswoggled.------------------I am not a doctor, nor do I work for profit in the medical/pharmacological field, but I have read scientific and medical texts, and have access to numerous sources of medical information that are not readily available to others. One should always consult a medical professional regarding advice received.[This message has been edited by flux (edited 09-27-2001).]


----------



## wyze88 (Jun 13, 2000)

I don't know what hornswoggled means. But here is the page in its entirety so members can judge for themselves. It's long folks, but very worth the read.--------------------------------------------- A whole lot of people, tens of thousands, perhaps even millions by now, have found out the truth about aspartame thanks to the so-called "Nancy Markle Letter", a piece really written by Betty Martini, the worlds leading aspartame activist, and a member the Aspartame Support Group. This letter was submitted to 450 user groups by Shoshanna Allison, another member of that group, and it became like a "shot fired around the world". Here is the original letter:WORLD ENVIRONMENTAL CONFERENCE and the MULTIPLE SCLEROSIS FOUNDATION F.D.A. ISSUING FOR COLLUSION WITH MONSANTOArticle written by Nancy Markle (1120197)I have spent several days lecturing at the WORLD ENVIRONMENTAL CONFERENCE on "ASPARTAME marketed as 'NutraSweet', 'Equal', and 'Spoonful"'. In the keynote address by the EPA, they announced that there was an epidemic of multiple sclerosis and systemic lupus, and they did not understand what toxin was causing this to be rampant across the United States. I explained that I was there to lecture on exactly that subject.When the temperature of Aspartame exceeds 86 degrees F, the wood alcohol in ASPARTAME converts to formaldehyde and then to formic acid, which in turn causes metabolic acidosis. (Formic acid is the poison found in the sting of fire ants). The methanol toxicity mimics multiple sclerosis; thus people were being diagnosed with having multiple sclerosis in error. The multiple sclerosis is not a death sentence, where methanol toxicity is.In the case of systemic lupus, we are finding it has become almost as rampant as multiple sclerosis, especially in Diet Coke and Diet Pepsi drinkers. Also, with methanol toxicity, the victims usually drink three to four 12 oz. Cans of them per day, some even more. In the cases of systemic lupus, which is triggered by ASPARTAME, the victim usually does not know that the aspartame is the culprit. The victim continues its use, aggravating the lupus to such a degree, that sometimes it becomes life threatening. When we get people off the aspartame, those with systemic lupus usually become asymptomatic. Unfortunately, we can not reverse this disease.On the other hand, in the case of those diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis, (when in reality, the disease is methanol toxicity), most of the symptoms disappear. We have seen cases where their vision has returned and even their hearing has returned. This also applies to cases of tinnitus.During a lecture I said "If you are using ASPARTAME ((NutraSweet, Equal, Spoonful, etc.), and you suffer from fibromyalgia symptoms, spasms, shooting pains, numbness in your legs, cramps, vertigo, dizziness, headaches, tinnitus, joint pain, depression, anxiety attacks, slurred speech, blurred vision, or memory loss -- you probably have ASPARTAME DISEASE!" People were jumping up during the lecture saying, "I've got this, is it reversible?" It is rampant. Some of the speakers at my lecture even were suffering from these symptoms. In one lecture attended by the Ambassador of Uganda, he told us that their sugar industry is adding aspartame! He continued by saying that one of the industry leader's son could no longer walk - due in part by product usage!We have a very serious problem. Even a stranger came up to Dr. Espisto (one of my speakers) and myself and said, "Could you tell me why so many people seem to be coming down with MS? During a visit to a hospice, a nurse said that six of her friends, who were heavy Diet Coke addicts, had all been diagnosed with MS. This is beyond coincidence.Here is the problem. There were Congressional Hearings in which aspartame was included in 100 different products. Since this initial hearing, there have been two subsequent hearings, but to no avail. Nothing as been done. The drug and chemical lobbies have very deep pockets. Now there are over 5,000 products containing this chemical, and the PATENT HAS EXPIRED!!!!! At the time of this first hearing, people were going blind. The methanol in the aspartame converts to formaldehyde in the retina of the eye. Formaldehyde is grouped in the same class of drugs as cyanide and arsenic--DEADLY POISONS!!! Unfortunately, it just takes longer to quietly kill, but it is killing people and causing all kinds of neurological problems.Aspartame changes the brain's chemistry. It is the reason for severe seizures. This drug changes the dopamine level in the brain. Imagine what this drug does to patients suffering from Parkinson's Disease. This drug also causes Birth Defects. There is absolutely no reason to take this product. It is NOT A DIET PRODUCT!!! The Congressional record said, "It makes you crave carbohydrates and will make you FAT". Dr. Roberts stated that when he got patients off aspartame, their average weight loss was 19 pounds per person. The formaldehyde stores in the fat cells, particularly in the hips and thighs.Aspartame is especially deadly for diabetics. All physicians know what wood alcohol will do to a diabetic. We find that physicians believe that they have patients with retinopathy, when in fact, it is caused by the aspartame. The aspartame keeps the blood sugar level out of control, causing many patients to go into a coma. Unfortunately, many have died. People were telling us at the Conference of the American College of Physicians, that they had relatives that switched from saccharin to an aspartame product and how that relative had eventually gone into a coma. Their physicians could not get the blood sugar levels under control. Thus, the patients suffered acute memory loss and eventually coma and death. Memory loss is due to the fact that aspartic acid and phenylalanine are neurotoxic without the other amino acids found in protein. Thus it goes past the blood brain barrier and deteriorates the neurons of the brain. Dr. Russell Blaylock, neurosurgeon, said, "The ingredients stimulates the neurons of the brain to death, causing brain damage of varying degrees. Dr. Blaylock has written a book entitled "EXCITOTOXINS: THE TASTE THAT KILLS" (Health Press 1-800-643-2665). Dr. H.J. Roberts, diabetic specialist and world expert on aspartame poisoning, has also written a book entitled "DEFENSE AGAINST ALZHEIMER'S DISEASE" (1-800-814-9800). Dr. Roberts tells how aspartame poisoning is escalating Alzheimer's Disease, and indeed it is. As the hospice nurse told me, women are being admitted at 30 years of age with Alzheimer's Disease. Dr. Blaylock and Dr. Roberts will be writing a position paper with some case histories and will post it on the Internet. According to the Conference of the American College of Physicians, 'We are talking about a plague of neurological diseases caused by this deadly poison".Dr. Roberts realized what was happening when aspartame was first marketed. He said, "his diabetic patients presented memory loss, confusion, and severe vision loss". At the Conference of the American College of Physicians, doctors admitted that they did not know. They had wondered why seizures were rampant (the phenylalanine in aspartame breaks down the seizure threshold and depletes serotonin, which causes manic depression,panic attacks, rage and violence).Just before the Conference, I received a FAX from Norway, asking for a possible antidote for this poison because they are experiencing so many problems in their country. This poison is now available in 90 PLUS countries worldwide. Fortunately, we had speakers and ambassadors at the Conference from different nations who have pledged their help. We ask that you help too. Print this article out and warn everyone you know. Take anything that contains aspartame back to the store. Take the "NO ASPARTAME TEST" and send us your case history.I assure you that MONSANTO, the creator of aspartame, knows how deadly it is. They fund the American Diabetes Association, American Dietetic Association, Congress, and the Conference of the American College of Physicians. The New York Times, on November 15, 1996, ran an article on how the American Dietetic Association takes money from the food industry to endorse their products. Therefore, they can not criticize any additives or tell about their link to MONSANTO. How bad is this? We told a mother who had a child on NutraSweet to get off the product. The child was having grand mal seizures every day. The mother called her physician, who called the ADA, who told the doctor not to take the child off the NutraSweet. We are still trying to convince the mother that the aspartame is causing the seizures. Every time we get someone off of aspartame, the seizures stop. If the baby dies, you know whose fault it is, and what we are up against. There are 92 documented symptoms of aspartame, from coma to death. The majority of them are all neurological, because the aspartame destroys the nervous system.Aspartame Disease is partially the cause to what is behind some of themystery of the Desert Storm health problems. The burning tongue and other problems discussed in over 60 cases can be directly related to the consumption of an aspartame product. Several thousand pallets of diet drinks were shipped to the Dessert Storm troops. (Remember heat can liberate the methanol from the aspartame at 86 degrees F). Diet drinks sat in the 120 degree F. Arabian sun for weeks at a time on pallets. The service men and women drank them all day long. All of their symptoms are identical to aspartame poisoning. Dr. Roberts says "consuming aspartame at the time of conception can cause birth defects". The phenylalanine concentrates in the placenta, causing mental retardation, according to Dr. Louis Elsas, Pediatrician Professor - Genetics, at Emery University in his testimony before Congress.In the original lab tests, animals developed brain tumors (phenylalanine breaks down into DXP, a brain tumor agent). When Dr. Espisto was lecturing on aspartame , one physician in the audience, a neurosurgeon, said," when they remove brain tumors, they have found high levels of aspartame in them".Stevia, a sweet food, NOT AN ADDITIVE, which helps in the metabolism of sugar, which would be ideal for diabetics, has now been approved as a dietary supplement by the F.D.A. For years, the F.D.A. has outlawed this sweet food because of their loyalty to MONSANTO.If it says "SUGAR FREE" on the label-- DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT IT!!!!! Senator Howard Metzenbaum wrote a bill that would have warned all infants, pregnant mothers and children of the dangers of aspartame. The bill would have also instituted independent studies on the problems existing in the population (seizures, changes in brain chemistry, changes in neurological and behavioral symptoms). It was killed by the powerful drug and chemical lobbies, letting loose the hounds of disease and death on an unsuspecting public. Since the Conference of the American College of Physicians, we hope to have the help of some world leaders. Again, please help us too. There are a lot of people out there who must be warned, please let them know this information.What follows is an explanation from Betty Martini, the person who actually wrote the piece above, as to the history of the piece. Note how one result of the general diffusion of the "Markle Post" was that the media, in keeping with the public relations campaign on the part of the Monsanto Corporation - the owners of NutraSweet - set out to malign the as-yet-to-be-identified Nancy Markle, and aspartame victims and activists everywhere, in a vain attempt to cover up their crimes as wanton poisoners of the unsuspecting public. Included in this letter is a description of how the FDA denied the existence of the World Environmental Conference held at Elizabeth City State University in 1995, even though they had a clear connection to that event. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: [aspartame] The "Mysterious World Environmental Conference", ChicagoTribune, Sunday, April 11, l999(Aspartame Disease now declared world epidemic by H. J. Roberts, M.D.)(See NoMarkle page on www.dorway.com for your facts). From: Betty Martini <Mission-Possible-USA###altavista.net>Dear Mr. Condor: Thank you for writing the article. I'm happy to give you thefacts you didn't have and hope you will advise the consumer public, the rest ofthe information. Here's the story. In l995 I lectured for the World Environmental Conferenceheld at Elizabeth City State University. It was funded through the Office ofEnvironmental Justice of the EPA, as a grant to the university. That was theformer office of Dr. Clarice Gaylord who made the statement at the conferencethat we have an epidemic of MS and lupus and cannot identify the toxin. It wasat that point that I said: "I'm Betty Martini of Mission Possible International andI'm here to lecture on MS and lupus and identify the toxin as NutraSweet." Because the conference was grant funded the EPA does not consider it asanctioned event and will not stand behind any comments made at theconference. And they will not acknowledge Dr. Gaylord's statement as an EPAposition. Now since I've been in contact with Dr. Gaylord and she has been in contactwith EPA, they are still putting out a statement that does mislead thepublic fromknowing the EPA knows all about it. Barbara Metzler wrote the EPA and said: "As you know, there is a great deal of discussion about the 1995 WorldEnvironmental Conference and a woman who lectured, Betty Martini. As Iunderstand it, Dr. Gaylord made a statement during questions and answers in akeynote address and said: "We have an epidemic of Ms and lupus and cannotidentify the toxin." then Mrs. Martini said: "I'm here to lecture on MS and lupusand identify the toxin as NutraSweet." The EPA wrote her back and said: ..."we could not find any information aboutan EPA keynote address at a World Environmental Conference or anyreference to an epidemic of multiple sclerosis. We cannot confirm any of theinformation in this email message."Since it was the EPA who contacted me in the first place and asked who theEPA spokesperson was, and confirmed all the information, statements like thismake the consumer public think they know nothing. I havebeen corresponding with Dr. Gaylord and asking her to get the EPA simply totell the truth as listed above, that it was a grant funded conference, and theydon't consider it an EPA sanctioned event. I don't understand their problem insimply "telling the truth". There are no secrets in the world. In the end it comesout just as you found out I was the one who lectured. Not only that, the EPA,the FDA, the CDC, etc. has always known it was me. The is no mystery to theWorld Environmental Conference other than the EPA would rather not discussit!!! They instead will send you to the MS site and I'll send you my rebuttal tothem. They also know and I've written the MS people for years. In my opinion,when a trade organization has their hand out to funding, they are more proneto give out Diet Coke (as they did at the walk-a-thon in Atlanta) than informationto the victims warning them off the product that can speed up their disease ormay have triggered the symptoms in the first place. On www.dorway.com readthe case history of Alicia Morris who was misdiagnosed as having MS by twophysicians; she used 3 diet drinks a day for about 3 years. She stopped theassault and all her symptoms disappeared. Her story was told in First forWomen in l997. I notice on the email from Barbara Metzler who is our Mission Possible NewJersey (and whose daughter's case is listed in one of Dr. Roberts books), theEPA Headquarters Information Resources Center lists a number inWashington, D..C. of 202 260-5922. A copy of this is going to Dr. Gaylordbecause I want her to call again the EPA office and let them know the news isout, and I really expect them to admit that a World Environmental Conferencewas held at Elizabeth City State University in l995 by grant from the Office ofEnvironmental Justice of the EPA and that Dr. Gaylord did, in fact, give thekeynote address. Also, on the NoMarkle page is the actual letter from theuniversity confirming my lecture. Now with that said go to www.dorway.com, the NoMarkle page, and there areall your answers. There are many heros in this effort and you should knowwho they are. If Dr. Gaylord had not made those statements I probably wouldnever have written the post that like the shot heard around the world hasbecome world history. On coming back to Atlanta I happened to be on aneurological list with neurologists headed by Dr. Rivner, and I was trying toexplain to them that aspartame destroyed the central nervous system. I amfounder of a worldwide volunteer force, Mission Possible International andMission Possible Aviation, warning all consumers in 100 countries of the worldwhere aspartame is marketed, off this neurotoxin. I am not a physician so H. J.Roberts, M.D., wrote a position paper titled MS or Aspartame Disease? soneurologists could be assured the information was accurate and it was put onthe list. I also added information I had received from neurosurgeon RussellBlaylock, M.D., on how and why aspartame mimics multiple sclerosis. Finally, Iwrote a paper about lecturing for the World Environmental Conference whichhas been on the web for years. Along comes Nancy Markle - whoever she is, picks the post, changes the title,and edits it, and publishes it under her name. Now you know who Dr. Gaylordis, hero #1 for having the keen observation to realize MS and lupus wasepidemic. Now, let's discuss hero #2, Shoshanna Allison, the Paul Revere orshould I say, Paulette, who fired the shot heard around the world. She saw thepost and knew her former husband was a victim (lupus) and it shattered theirmarriage. With the help of Jean Hudon (globalvisionary###cybernaute.com -hero#3) this post was put on 450 global networks. The Nancy Markle post has been read from New Zealand to Hong Kong andover 300 reporters got in touch from these countries as well as others andthroughout the US. It was easy to find me on the Internet by simply searchingaspartame. The post went to hospitals, clinics, medical organizations,emergency rooms and victims of aspartame throughout the world. Twosupport groups have been set up on the Internet to assist the victims. Onevictim lays in a coma in the Mayo Clinic, his insurance company having spent$1 million to find a diagnosis for his symptoms. His liver enzymes are off thechart. He had been consuming 13 cans of diet pop a day. What is happening on the support group? They are counting the days offaspartame and in so many cases watching their symptoms disappear. Seizures have stopped, vision has cleared up, joint pain and memory loss aregone, diabetics have come under control, MS symptoms have disappeared,etc. Dr. James Bowen who attributes his Lou Gehrigs disease to aspartameexpressed the situation to the FDA as "mass poisoning of the American publicand more than 70 countries of the world". (now 100). Information has been kept from the public because Monsanto funds tradeorganizations and writes their material. So many are now very grateful to knowwhat has caused these 92 symptoms on the FDA's report from four types ofseizures to coma and death. In l986 the Community Nutrition Institute inWashington, D..C. petitioned the FDA to ban aspartame because so manypeople were going blind. It was published in the Chicago Sun Times at thattime. In November, l998 Focus Magazine (RP) published the study onaspartame "What's Blinding the World?" Now your questions - "the link to Alzheimers". H. J. Roberts, M.D., discusses itin his book Defense Against Alzheimers Disease ( 1 800 - 814-9800 ). Neurosurgeon Russell Blaylock, M.D., author of Excitotoxins: The Taste ThatKills ( 1 800 -643-2665) discusses it in his book and in lectures and othermaterial. Listen to him lecture on www.dorway.com if you have audio as heexplains that the reactions to aspartame are not allergic in nature but toxic likearsenic and cyanide. We're talking about a chemical poison. On the FDA list of92 symptoms memory loss is #9; some aspartame victims say they had to writedirections on how to find their way back home. Read the case history of JackThomas on www.dorway.com under the Mission Possible files. It is interestingthat we constantly get informants who say studies were done that evenshowed this problem and never published like the ones in South America. Seeaffidavit from translator N. Vera who said she and a physician translated thesestudies done on people in poor villages in South America and neverpublished. She told me personally it showed aspartame to be a KILLER thatdestroyed thebrain and central nervous system. She also said the studies showed thataspartame hardened the synovial fluids which brings us to fibromyalgia. Fibromyalgia is a painful, debilitating disease affecting the muscles. Nobodyreally knows what causes it. Some scientists believe it is a disorder of the painproteins in nerves and muscles. Some think it's an innate nerve disorder withabnormal secretion of certain proteins. Some believe that it is related to thyroidfunction in a way that is as yet unknown or to lack of adrenal function. All thatis really known is that fibromyalgia causes a pain disorder. Dr. Roberts said itbest for the Lawyers Weekly, that its a catchall name for this type of pain. TheLawyers Weekly was interested in why fibromyalgia is epidemic. When youtake the case histories on aspartame you know and I'll summarize.Because aspartame hardens the synovial fluids it triggers horrible joint painand this joint pain is MISDIAGNOSED as fibromyalgia. Dr. Roberts wrote apaper on aspartame and joint pain that was published in the Townsend Letterfor Doctors. About that time Richard Sabates, M.D., was drinking diet soda andsuffering from this terrible joint. Even as a physician he could not diagnose itand went from physician to physician himself. Finally one day he was reading the Townsend Letter and saw Dr. Roberts paper and got off of aspartame. Hissymptoms disappeared completely. Dr. Sabetes wrote a book and his firstchapter is titled "My Aspartame Nightmare" as he thanks Dr. Roberts for savinghis life. He gave permission to put that chapter on www.dorway.com where youcan read it. In the meantime, a former FDA Investigator who wanted to exposeaspartame wrote an article on Aspartame and Joint Pain and gave uspermission to use it in any way it could help the public (Arthur Evangelista). You can find it too on the DORway web site. Gustav Hemwall, M.D., who practiced prolotherapy, a cure for chronic pain,right there in Oak Park, Illinois for over 40 years recently died at the age 90. Hewas an incredible physician and I once asked him if fibromyalgia was notcaused by aspartame could it be cured by prolotherapy. He looked at me andsaid: "Betty, what is fibromyalgia?" Having known him for many years I didn'thave to say anything else because he understood like Dr. Roberts its just aname used for the pain process. Even when Dr. Roberts and I attended theConference of the American College of Physician the exhibit by theFibromyalgia people contained a list of symptoms, and they were all aspartameproblems even down to "slurring of speech" which is caused by methanoltoxicity!! Dave Rietz who has the www.dorway.com web site that houses theMission Possible files was a victim of this horrible joint pain that caused him tospend a good bit of time in a Jacuzzi because it was too painful for him towalk. He too went from physician to physician to be misdiagnosed withfibromyalgia. It is sometimes also misdiagnosed as arthritis or rheumatoidarthritis. Finally he got on Internet and saw the 92 symptoms and got offaspartame. His joint pain disappeared. He set up the web site because he saidhe wanted to give back to the Internet what the Internet gave to him .... his life! He still has prostate cancer. The phenylalanine in aspartame breaks down toDKP, a tumor agent. World famous toxicologist, Dr. George Schwartz, justcompleted a research paper on aspartame and breast and prostate cancer Also read on DORway under junk science about Dr. Manion now trying to pushaspartame to prevent joint which it causes it. Who could have put him up tothis? Naturally if anyone has joint pain from aspartame and they take more, itcould speed up their disability and possibly their death. Now Monsanto can make more money on the problem they caused, having gotten approvedCelebra for joint pain and arthritis. You are looking for research on the brain cancer? Read on DORway the lateFDA Toxicologist, Dr. Adrian Gross' letters to Senator Metzenbaum whichoutlines all the brain tumors in the original studies. Then go to the secret tradeinformation and read the original manufacturer's admission that "we have toconsider complete conversion to DKP". Notice they are saying that if they givethis information to the FDA they won't approve it. DKP is the brain tumor agentand rats fed aspartame developed brain tumors. It was kept off the market for16 years because of the brain tumor issue and Dr. Adrian Gross told congressthat aspartame violated the Delaney Amendment because of the brain tumors. He also said: "And if the FDA violates its own laws who is left to protect thepublic." You will see Dr. Roberts peer reviewed paper on aspartame and braintumors and in l996 world famous researcher Dr. John Olney made world newson the aspartame/brain tumor connection. His update is on www.dorway.com. Dr. Olney is so famous he founded the field of neuroscience calledexcitotoxicity. Even in unpublished studies in South America aspartame wastriggering brain tumors in subjects. Lupus? Simply put aspartame turns your immune system against your body.The formaldehyde embalms the proteins and makes them strange to theimmune system. Your immune system attacks your own body because it hasyour own denatured protein as an antigen. This then generates the falseinformation fed into the immune system that your own proteins are to beattacked. Then any other insults, mental, physical, immunological canstimulate the immune attack and the immune attack is lupus. Basic Principle: Full hazard of lifetime damage from a single exposure to NutraSweet!We notice in the case of lupus that when the aspartame assault is stopped thevictim usually becomes asymptomatic. On the NoMarkle read the letter to theMinneapolis Neuropathy Association by neurosurgeon Russell Blaylock, M.D.,who explains that aspartame worsens autoimmune diseases such as MS andlupus. He also mentions a recent study on aspartame by Trocho, Pardo andco-workers that makes it easy to understand how the deadly toxin aspartamecan trigger so many problems. It demonstrated following aspartame ingestion,significant amounts of formaldehyde accumulate in the tissues. Formaldehydeis known to bind strongly to proteins and nucleic acids, forming adducts thatare extremely difficult to eliminate through normal metabolic pathways. Withinthe cell, they found large amounts located within the DNA. so here you have atoxin that can damage DNA. So genetic change can also certainly explainaspartame triggering lupus.While I was typing this Holly Balint called from Duluth, Georgia having alsoread the World Environmental Conference post. She too suffers from the jointpain and also "the burning tongue" so common to aspartame victims. Remember the methanol converts to formaldehyde and then formic acid andthe acid can burn the tongue. However, Dr. James Bowen says it is mainly dueto the neuropathy from aspartame. On 60 Minutes discussing Desert StormSyndrome one of the military said there was one symptom they could notunderstand - the "burning tongue". Taking the case histories I understand itwell, and there has been quite a discussion of it from other aspartame victimson the support group, the Aspartame One List. Read the digest. On the protestof the National Soft Drink Association you will note that aspartame breaksdown at 86 degrees. The pop company with full knowledge sent diet pop to thePersian Gulf where it sat on pallets for as long as 8 weeks and the troops weredrinking formaldehyde cocktails all day long. As to this propaganda about there being four times the amount of methanol intomato juice as in aspartame sweetened diet soda, on the NoMarkle page is ajournal article by Dr. Monte explaining that in fruits and vegetables methanol isalways accompanied by ethanol, the classic antidote for methanol toxicity thattakes it out of your system. You will also see Dr. Schwartz comments to theNutraSweet team challenging their makeup artists to prove their propaganda. Aspartame is not a diet product. On the last page of the NSDA protest you willsee that aspartame is a drug that makes you crave carbohydrates so you gainweight. No wonder there is so much obesity in this country. H. J. Roberts, M.D., has declared Aspartame Disease to be a world epidemic. His medical text on the world plague will be available to the public at 1 800 -814-9800 in a few months where his other books and tapes on aspartame(marketed as NutraSweet, Equal, Spoonful, etc.) are now available. His materialwas distributed at the First International Conference on Emerging Diseases inAtlanta in March, l998 to doctors and scientists from 91 countries of the worldand the global press. Read also the damning CDC investigation which is alsoon DORway. You talk about how much methanol in diet soda. From Dr. Roberts bookAspartame (NutraSweet) Is It Safe?, page 42: "One liter of mostaspartame-sweetened soft drinks contains about 55 mg. methanol. Methanolconcentrations in aspartame-sweetened beverages increase with heating andduring prolonged storage. The amount of methanol ingested by heavyconsumers of aspartame products could readily exceed 250 mg. daily (Montel984). This is 32 times the limit of consumption recommended by theEnvironmental Protection Agency (EPA). 'Abuse does' (100 mg. aspartame/kgbody weight, or more) result in significant elevations of blood methanolconcentrations in normal subjects (Stegink l984). Moreoever, the level remainsdetectable for eight more hours. Monte (l984) calculated that one-hundredththe fatal level is standard criterion for safety used by the FDA) translates intoonly two 12 ounce cans."You cannot set an allowable daily dose of poison for humans. The allowabledaily dose of aspartame was set for rats and admitted by the FDA. It is one ofthe 26 questions they refuse to answer as listed on www.dorway.com Theoriginal studies that approved aspartame were the target of an indictment forfraud that was never carried out when two U.S. Prosecutors went to work forthe law firm defending the case and let the statute of limitations expire. Whenthe District Attorney goes to work for the godfather expect acquittal! RalphWalton, M.D. said on 60 Minutes with Dr. Olney in l996 that only 90 independentstudies are valid, of these 83 showed problems with aspartame. Six had to dowith the FDA who over-ruled a Board of Inquiry to approve aspartame (Dr.Arthur Hull Hayes) and one was definitely industry propaganda. So Dr. Waltonsays basically 100% of independent studies show problems with aspartame. Could this be the reason NutraSweet (Monsanto) refused to sell Dr. Walton theaspartame when he did a study? After one retinal detachment, someonebleeding from the eyes, and subjects complaining of being poisoned, theinstitution stopped the study. As to birth defects simply read Dr Louis Elsas (pediatric professor, genetics,Emory University) testimony before Congress on DORway and Dr. Robertspaper on pregnancy and aspartame. Aspartame has been outlawed in theEuropean Union for infants and small children.I hope this gives you sufficient information to get the facts to consumers. Otherwise, you can call me at 770 242-2599.Regards,Betty Martini, FounderMission Possible InternationalMission Possible Aviation (be sure to check out the aviation page on www.dorway.com) 770 242-2599


----------



## wyze88 (Jun 13, 2000)

I don't know what hornswoggled means. But here is the page in its entirety so members can judge for themselves. It's long folks, but very worth the read.--------------------------------------------- A whole lot of people, tens of thousands, perhaps even millions by now, have found out the truth about aspartame thanks to the so-called "Nancy Markle Letter", a piece really written by Betty Martini, the worlds leading aspartame activist, and a member the Aspartame Support Group. This letter was submitted to 450 user groups by Shoshanna Allison, another member of that group, and it became like a "shot fired around the world". Here is the original letter:WORLD ENVIRONMENTAL CONFERENCE and the MULTIPLE SCLEROSIS FOUNDATION F.D.A. ISSUING FOR COLLUSION WITH MONSANTOArticle written by Nancy Markle (1120197)I have spent several days lecturing at the WORLD ENVIRONMENTAL CONFERENCE on "ASPARTAME marketed as 'NutraSweet', 'Equal', and 'Spoonful"'. In the keynote address by the EPA, they announced that there was an epidemic of multiple sclerosis and systemic lupus, and they did not understand what toxin was causing this to be rampant across the United States. I explained that I was there to lecture on exactly that subject.When the temperature of Aspartame exceeds 86 degrees F, the wood alcohol in ASPARTAME converts to formaldehyde and then to formic acid, which in turn causes metabolic acidosis. (Formic acid is the poison found in the sting of fire ants). The methanol toxicity mimics multiple sclerosis; thus people were being diagnosed with having multiple sclerosis in error. The multiple sclerosis is not a death sentence, where methanol toxicity is.In the case of systemic lupus, we are finding it has become almost as rampant as multiple sclerosis, especially in Diet Coke and Diet Pepsi drinkers. Also, with methanol toxicity, the victims usually drink three to four 12 oz. Cans of them per day, some even more. In the cases of systemic lupus, which is triggered by ASPARTAME, the victim usually does not know that the aspartame is the culprit. The victim continues its use, aggravating the lupus to such a degree, that sometimes it becomes life threatening. When we get people off the aspartame, those with systemic lupus usually become asymptomatic. Unfortunately, we can not reverse this disease.On the other hand, in the case of those diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis, (when in reality, the disease is methanol toxicity), most of the symptoms disappear. We have seen cases where their vision has returned and even their hearing has returned. This also applies to cases of tinnitus.During a lecture I said "If you are using ASPARTAME ((NutraSweet, Equal, Spoonful, etc.), and you suffer from fibromyalgia symptoms, spasms, shooting pains, numbness in your legs, cramps, vertigo, dizziness, headaches, tinnitus, joint pain, depression, anxiety attacks, slurred speech, blurred vision, or memory loss -- you probably have ASPARTAME DISEASE!" People were jumping up during the lecture saying, "I've got this, is it reversible?" It is rampant. Some of the speakers at my lecture even were suffering from these symptoms. In one lecture attended by the Ambassador of Uganda, he told us that their sugar industry is adding aspartame! He continued by saying that one of the industry leader's son could no longer walk - due in part by product usage!We have a very serious problem. Even a stranger came up to Dr. Espisto (one of my speakers) and myself and said, "Could you tell me why so many people seem to be coming down with MS? During a visit to a hospice, a nurse said that six of her friends, who were heavy Diet Coke addicts, had all been diagnosed with MS. This is beyond coincidence.Here is the problem. There were Congressional Hearings in which aspartame was included in 100 different products. Since this initial hearing, there have been two subsequent hearings, but to no avail. Nothing as been done. The drug and chemical lobbies have very deep pockets. Now there are over 5,000 products containing this chemical, and the PATENT HAS EXPIRED!!!!! At the time of this first hearing, people were going blind. The methanol in the aspartame converts to formaldehyde in the retina of the eye. Formaldehyde is grouped in the same class of drugs as cyanide and arsenic--DEADLY POISONS!!! Unfortunately, it just takes longer to quietly kill, but it is killing people and causing all kinds of neurological problems.Aspartame changes the brain's chemistry. It is the reason for severe seizures. This drug changes the dopamine level in the brain. Imagine what this drug does to patients suffering from Parkinson's Disease. This drug also causes Birth Defects. There is absolutely no reason to take this product. It is NOT A DIET PRODUCT!!! The Congressional record said, "It makes you crave carbohydrates and will make you FAT". Dr. Roberts stated that when he got patients off aspartame, their average weight loss was 19 pounds per person. The formaldehyde stores in the fat cells, particularly in the hips and thighs.Aspartame is especially deadly for diabetics. All physicians know what wood alcohol will do to a diabetic. We find that physicians believe that they have patients with retinopathy, when in fact, it is caused by the aspartame. The aspartame keeps the blood sugar level out of control, causing many patients to go into a coma. Unfortunately, many have died. People were telling us at the Conference of the American College of Physicians, that they had relatives that switched from saccharin to an aspartame product and how that relative had eventually gone into a coma. Their physicians could not get the blood sugar levels under control. Thus, the patients suffered acute memory loss and eventually coma and death. Memory loss is due to the fact that aspartic acid and phenylalanine are neurotoxic without the other amino acids found in protein. Thus it goes past the blood brain barrier and deteriorates the neurons of the brain. Dr. Russell Blaylock, neurosurgeon, said, "The ingredients stimulates the neurons of the brain to death, causing brain damage of varying degrees. Dr. Blaylock has written a book entitled "EXCITOTOXINS: THE TASTE THAT KILLS" (Health Press 1-800-643-2665). Dr. H.J. Roberts, diabetic specialist and world expert on aspartame poisoning, has also written a book entitled "DEFENSE AGAINST ALZHEIMER'S DISEASE" (1-800-814-9800). Dr. Roberts tells how aspartame poisoning is escalating Alzheimer's Disease, and indeed it is. As the hospice nurse told me, women are being admitted at 30 years of age with Alzheimer's Disease. Dr. Blaylock and Dr. Roberts will be writing a position paper with some case histories and will post it on the Internet. According to the Conference of the American College of Physicians, 'We are talking about a plague of neurological diseases caused by this deadly poison".Dr. Roberts realized what was happening when aspartame was first marketed. He said, "his diabetic patients presented memory loss, confusion, and severe vision loss". At the Conference of the American College of Physicians, doctors admitted that they did not know. They had wondered why seizures were rampant (the phenylalanine in aspartame breaks down the seizure threshold and depletes serotonin, which causes manic depression,panic attacks, rage and violence).Just before the Conference, I received a FAX from Norway, asking for a possible antidote for this poison because they are experiencing so many problems in their country. This poison is now available in 90 PLUS countries worldwide. Fortunately, we had speakers and ambassadors at the Conference from different nations who have pledged their help. We ask that you help too. Print this article out and warn everyone you know. Take anything that contains aspartame back to the store. Take the "NO ASPARTAME TEST" and send us your case history.I assure you that MONSANTO, the creator of aspartame, knows how deadly it is. They fund the American Diabetes Association, American Dietetic Association, Congress, and the Conference of the American College of Physicians. The New York Times, on November 15, 1996, ran an article on how the American Dietetic Association takes money from the food industry to endorse their products. Therefore, they can not criticize any additives or tell about their link to MONSANTO. How bad is this? We told a mother who had a child on NutraSweet to get off the product. The child was having grand mal seizures every day. The mother called her physician, who called the ADA, who told the doctor not to take the child off the NutraSweet. We are still trying to convince the mother that the aspartame is causing the seizures. Every time we get someone off of aspartame, the seizures stop. If the baby dies, you know whose fault it is, and what we are up against. There are 92 documented symptoms of aspartame, from coma to death. The majority of them are all neurological, because the aspartame destroys the nervous system.Aspartame Disease is partially the cause to what is behind some of themystery of the Desert Storm health problems. The burning tongue and other problems discussed in over 60 cases can be directly related to the consumption of an aspartame product. Several thousand pallets of diet drinks were shipped to the Dessert Storm troops. (Remember heat can liberate the methanol from the aspartame at 86 degrees F). Diet drinks sat in the 120 degree F. Arabian sun for weeks at a time on pallets. The service men and women drank them all day long. All of their symptoms are identical to aspartame poisoning. Dr. Roberts says "consuming aspartame at the time of conception can cause birth defects". The phenylalanine concentrates in the placenta, causing mental retardation, according to Dr. Louis Elsas, Pediatrician Professor - Genetics, at Emery University in his testimony before Congress.In the original lab tests, animals developed brain tumors (phenylalanine breaks down into DXP, a brain tumor agent). When Dr. Espisto was lecturing on aspartame , one physician in the audience, a neurosurgeon, said," when they remove brain tumors, they have found high levels of aspartame in them".Stevia, a sweet food, NOT AN ADDITIVE, which helps in the metabolism of sugar, which would be ideal for diabetics, has now been approved as a dietary supplement by the F.D.A. For years, the F.D.A. has outlawed this sweet food because of their loyalty to MONSANTO.If it says "SUGAR FREE" on the label-- DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT IT!!!!! Senator Howard Metzenbaum wrote a bill that would have warned all infants, pregnant mothers and children of the dangers of aspartame. The bill would have also instituted independent studies on the problems existing in the population (seizures, changes in brain chemistry, changes in neurological and behavioral symptoms). It was killed by the powerful drug and chemical lobbies, letting loose the hounds of disease and death on an unsuspecting public. Since the Conference of the American College of Physicians, we hope to have the help of some world leaders. Again, please help us too. There are a lot of people out there who must be warned, please let them know this information.What follows is an explanation from Betty Martini, the person who actually wrote the piece above, as to the history of the piece. Note how one result of the general diffusion of the "Markle Post" was that the media, in keeping with the public relations campaign on the part of the Monsanto Corporation - the owners of NutraSweet - set out to malign the as-yet-to-be-identified Nancy Markle, and aspartame victims and activists everywhere, in a vain attempt to cover up their crimes as wanton poisoners of the unsuspecting public. Included in this letter is a description of how the FDA denied the existence of the World Environmental Conference held at Elizabeth City State University in 1995, even though they had a clear connection to that event. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: [aspartame] The "Mysterious World Environmental Conference", ChicagoTribune, Sunday, April 11, l999(Aspartame Disease now declared world epidemic by H. J. Roberts, M.D.)(See NoMarkle page on www.dorway.com for your facts). From: Betty Martini <Mission-Possible-USA###altavista.net>Dear Mr. Condor: Thank you for writing the article. I'm happy to give you thefacts you didn't have and hope you will advise the consumer public, the rest ofthe information. Here's the story. In l995 I lectured for the World Environmental Conferenceheld at Elizabeth City State University. It was funded through the Office ofEnvironmental Justice of the EPA, as a grant to the university. That was theformer office of Dr. Clarice Gaylord who made the statement at the conferencethat we have an epidemic of MS and lupus and cannot identify the toxin. It wasat that point that I said: "I'm Betty Martini of Mission Possible International andI'm here to lecture on MS and lupus and identify the toxin as NutraSweet." Because the conference was grant funded the EPA does not consider it asanctioned event and will not stand behind any comments made at theconference. And they will not acknowledge Dr. Gaylord's statement as an EPAposition. Now since I've been in contact with Dr. Gaylord and she has been in contactwith EPA, they are still putting out a statement that does mislead thepublic fromknowing the EPA knows all about it. Barbara Metzler wrote the EPA and said: "As you know, there is a great deal of discussion about the 1995 WorldEnvironmental Conference and a woman who lectured, Betty Martini. As Iunderstand it, Dr. Gaylord made a statement during questions and answers in akeynote address and said: "We have an epidemic of Ms and lupus and cannotidentify the toxin." then Mrs. Martini said: "I'm here to lecture on MS and lupusand identify the toxin as NutraSweet." The EPA wrote her back and said: ..."we could not find any information aboutan EPA keynote address at a World Environmental Conference or anyreference to an epidemic of multiple sclerosis. We cannot confirm any of theinformation in this email message."Since it was the EPA who contacted me in the first place and asked who theEPA spokesperson was, and confirmed all the information, statements like thismake the consumer public think they know nothing. I havebeen corresponding with Dr. Gaylord and asking her to get the EPA simply totell the truth as listed above, that it was a grant funded conference, and theydon't consider it an EPA sanctioned event. I don't understand their problem insimply "telling the truth". There are no secrets in the world. In the end it comesout just as you found out I was the one who lectured. Not only that, the EPA,the FDA, the CDC, etc. has always known it was me. The is no mystery to theWorld Environmental Conference other than the EPA would rather not discussit!!! They instead will send you to the MS site and I'll send you my rebuttal tothem. They also know and I've written the MS people for years. In my opinion,when a trade organization has their hand out to funding, they are more proneto give out Diet Coke (as they did at the walk-a-thon in Atlanta) than informationto the victims warning them off the product that can speed up their disease ormay have triggered the symptoms in the first place. On www.dorway.com readthe case history of Alicia Morris who was misdiagnosed as having MS by twophysicians; she used 3 diet drinks a day for about 3 years. She stopped theassault and all her symptoms disappeared. Her story was told in First forWomen in l997. I notice on the email from Barbara Metzler who is our Mission Possible NewJersey (and whose daughter's case is listed in one of Dr. Roberts books), theEPA Headquarters Information Resources Center lists a number inWashington, D..C. of 202 260-5922. A copy of this is going to Dr. Gaylordbecause I want her to call again the EPA office and let them know the news isout, and I really expect them to admit that a World Environmental Conferencewas held at Elizabeth City State University in l995 by grant from the Office ofEnvironmental Justice of the EPA and that Dr. Gaylord did, in fact, give thekeynote address. Also, on the NoMarkle page is the actual letter from theuniversity confirming my lecture. Now with that said go to www.dorway.com, the NoMarkle page, and there areall your answers. There are many heros in this effort and you should knowwho they are. If Dr. Gaylord had not made those statements I probably wouldnever have written the post that like the shot heard around the world hasbecome world history. On coming back to Atlanta I happened to be on aneurological list with neurologists headed by Dr. Rivner, and I was trying toexplain to them that aspartame destroyed the central nervous system. I amfounder of a worldwide volunteer force, Mission Possible International andMission Possible Aviation, warning all consumers in 100 countries of the worldwhere aspartame is marketed, off this neurotoxin. I am not a physician so H. J.Roberts, M.D., wrote a position paper titled MS or Aspartame Disease? soneurologists could be assured the information was accurate and it was put onthe list. I also added information I had received from neurosurgeon RussellBlaylock, M.D., on how and why aspartame mimics multiple sclerosis. Finally, Iwrote a paper about lecturing for the World Environmental Conference whichhas been on the web for years. Along comes Nancy Markle - whoever she is, picks the post, changes the title,and edits it, and publishes it under her name. Now you know who Dr. Gaylordis, hero #1 for having the keen observation to realize MS and lupus wasepidemic. Now, let's discuss hero #2, Shoshanna Allison, the Paul Revere orshould I say, Paulette, who fired the shot heard around the world. She saw thepost and knew her former husband was a victim (lupus) and it shattered theirmarriage. With the help of Jean Hudon (globalvisionary###cybernaute.com -hero#3) this post was put on 450 global networks. The Nancy Markle post has been read from New Zealand to Hong Kong andover 300 reporters got in touch from these countries as well as others andthroughout the US. It was easy to find me on the Internet by simply searchingaspartame. The post went to hospitals, clinics, medical organizations,emergency rooms and victims of aspartame throughout the world. Twosupport groups have been set up on the Internet to assist the victims. Onevictim lays in a coma in the Mayo Clinic, his insurance company having spent$1 million to find a diagnosis for his symptoms. His liver enzymes are off thechart. He had been consuming 13 cans of diet pop a day. What is happening on the support group? They are counting the days offaspartame and in so many cases watching their symptoms disappear. Seizures have stopped, vision has cleared up, joint pain and memory loss aregone, diabetics have come under control, MS symptoms have disappeared,etc. Dr. James Bowen who attributes his Lou Gehrigs disease to aspartameexpressed the situation to the FDA as "mass poisoning of the American publicand more than 70 countries of the world". (now 100). Information has been kept from the public because Monsanto funds tradeorganizations and writes their material. So many are now very grateful to knowwhat has caused these 92 symptoms on the FDA's report from four types ofseizures to coma and death. In l986 the Community Nutrition Institute inWashington, D..C. petitioned the FDA to ban aspartame because so manypeople were going blind. It was published in the Chicago Sun Times at thattime. In November, l998 Focus Magazine (RP) published the study onaspartame "What's Blinding the World?" Now your questions - "the link to Alzheimers". H. J. Roberts, M.D., discusses itin his book Defense Against Alzheimers Disease ( 1 800 - 814-9800 ). Neurosurgeon Russell Blaylock, M.D., author of Excitotoxins: The Taste ThatKills ( 1 800 -643-2665) discusses it in his book and in lectures and othermaterial. Listen to him lecture on www.dorway.com if you have audio as heexplains that the reactions to aspartame are not allergic in nature but toxic likearsenic and cyanide. We're talking about a chemical poison. On the FDA list of92 symptoms memory loss is #9; some aspartame victims say they had to writedirections on how to find their way back home. Read the case history of JackThomas on www.dorway.com under the Mission Possible files. It is interestingthat we constantly get informants who say studies were done that evenshowed this problem and never published like the ones in South America. Seeaffidavit from translator N. Vera who said she and a physician translated thesestudies done on people in poor villages in South America and neverpublished. She told me personally it showed aspartame to be a KILLER thatdestroyed thebrain and central nervous system. She also said the studies showed thataspartame hardened the synovial fluids which brings us to fibromyalgia. Fibromyalgia is a painful, debilitating disease affecting the muscles. Nobodyreally knows what causes it. Some scientists believe it is a disorder of the painproteins in nerves and muscles. Some think it's an innate nerve disorder withabnormal secretion of certain proteins. Some believe that it is related to thyroidfunction in a way that is as yet unknown or to lack of adrenal function. All thatis really known is that fibromyalgia causes a pain disorder. Dr. Roberts said itbest for the Lawyers Weekly, that its a catchall name for this type of pain. TheLawyers Weekly was interested in why fibromyalgia is epidemic. When youtake the case histories on aspartame you know and I'll summarize.Because aspartame hardens the synovial fluids it triggers horrible joint painand this joint pain is MISDIAGNOSED as fibromyalgia. Dr. Roberts wrote apaper on aspartame and joint pain that was published in the Townsend Letterfor Doctors. About that time Richard Sabates, M.D., was drinking diet soda andsuffering from this terrible joint. Even as a physician he could not diagnose itand went from physician to physician himself. Finally one day he was reading the Townsend Letter and saw Dr. Roberts paper and got off of aspartame. Hissymptoms disappeared completely. Dr. Sabetes wrote a book and his firstchapter is titled "My Aspartame Nightmare" as he thanks Dr. Roberts for savinghis life. He gave permission to put that chapter on www.dorway.com where youcan read it. In the meantime, a former FDA Investigator who wanted to exposeaspartame wrote an article on Aspartame and Joint Pain and gave uspermission to use it in any way it could help the public (Arthur Evangelista). You can find it too on the DORway web site. Gustav Hemwall, M.D., who practiced prolotherapy, a cure for chronic pain,right there in Oak Park, Illinois for over 40 years recently died at the age 90. Hewas an incredible physician and I once asked him if fibromyalgia was notcaused by aspartame could it be cured by prolotherapy. He looked at me andsaid: "Betty, what is fibromyalgia?" Having known him for many years I didn'thave to say anything else because he understood like Dr. Roberts its just aname used for the pain process. Even when Dr. Roberts and I attended theConference of the American College of Physician the exhibit by theFibromyalgia people contained a list of symptoms, and they were all aspartameproblems even down to "slurring of speech" which is caused by methanoltoxicity!! Dave Rietz who has the www.dorway.com web site that houses theMission Possible files was a victim of this horrible joint pain that caused him tospend a good bit of time in a Jacuzzi because it was too painful for him towalk. He too went from physician to physician to be misdiagnosed withfibromyalgia. It is sometimes also misdiagnosed as arthritis or rheumatoidarthritis. Finally he got on Internet and saw the 92 symptoms and got offaspartame. His joint pain disappeared. He set up the web site because he saidhe wanted to give back to the Internet what the Internet gave to him .... his life! He still has prostate cancer. The phenylalanine in aspartame breaks down toDKP, a tumor agent. World famous toxicologist, Dr. George Schwartz, justcompleted a research paper on aspartame and breast and prostate cancer Also read on DORway under junk science about Dr. Manion now trying to pushaspartame to prevent joint which it causes it. Who could have put him up tothis? Naturally if anyone has joint pain from aspartame and they take more, itcould speed up their disability and possibly their death. Now Monsanto can make more money on the problem they caused, having gotten approvedCelebra for joint pain and arthritis. You are looking for research on the brain cancer? Read on DORway the lateFDA Toxicologist, Dr. Adrian Gross' letters to Senator Metzenbaum whichoutlines all the brain tumors in the original studies. Then go to the secret tradeinformation and read the original manufacturer's admission that "we have toconsider complete conversion to DKP". Notice they are saying that if they givethis information to the FDA they won't approve it. DKP is the brain tumor agentand rats fed aspartame developed brain tumors. It was kept off the market for16 years because of the brain tumor issue and Dr. Adrian Gross told congressthat aspartame violated the Delaney Amendment because of the brain tumors. He also said: "And if the FDA violates its own laws who is left to protect thepublic." You will see Dr. Roberts peer reviewed paper on aspartame and braintumors and in l996 world famous researcher Dr. John Olney made world newson the aspartame/brain tumor connection. His update is on www.dorway.com. Dr. Olney is so famous he founded the field of neuroscience calledexcitotoxicity. Even in unpublished studies in South America aspartame wastriggering brain tumors in subjects. Lupus? Simply put aspartame turns your immune system against your body.The formaldehyde embalms the proteins and makes them strange to theimmune system. Your immune system attacks your own body because it hasyour own denatured protein as an antigen. This then generates the falseinformation fed into the immune system that your own proteins are to beattacked. Then any other insults, mental, physical, immunological canstimulate the immune attack and the immune attack is lupus. Basic Principle: Full hazard of lifetime damage from a single exposure to NutraSweet!We notice in the case of lupus that when the aspartame assault is stopped thevictim usually becomes asymptomatic. On the NoMarkle read the letter to theMinneapolis Neuropathy Association by neurosurgeon Russell Blaylock, M.D.,who explains that aspartame worsens autoimmune diseases such as MS andlupus. He also mentions a recent study on aspartame by Trocho, Pardo andco-workers that makes it easy to understand how the deadly toxin aspartamecan trigger so many problems. It demonstrated following aspartame ingestion,significant amounts of formaldehyde accumulate in the tissues. Formaldehydeis known to bind strongly to proteins and nucleic acids, forming adducts thatare extremely difficult to eliminate through normal metabolic pathways. Withinthe cell, they found large amounts located within the DNA. so here you have atoxin that can damage DNA. So genetic change can also certainly explainaspartame triggering lupus.While I was typing this Holly Balint called from Duluth, Georgia having alsoread the World Environmental Conference post. She too suffers from the jointpain and also "the burning tongue" so common to aspartame victims. Remember the methanol converts to formaldehyde and then formic acid andthe acid can burn the tongue. However, Dr. James Bowen says it is mainly dueto the neuropathy from aspartame. On 60 Minutes discussing Desert StormSyndrome one of the military said there was one symptom they could notunderstand - the "burning tongue". Taking the case histories I understand itwell, and there has been quite a discussion of it from other aspartame victimson the support group, the Aspartame One List. Read the digest. On the protestof the National Soft Drink Association you will note that aspartame breaksdown at 86 degrees. The pop company with full knowledge sent diet pop to thePersian Gulf where it sat on pallets for as long as 8 weeks and the troops weredrinking formaldehyde cocktails all day long. As to this propaganda about there being four times the amount of methanol intomato juice as in aspartame sweetened diet soda, on the NoMarkle page is ajournal article by Dr. Monte explaining that in fruits and vegetables methanol isalways accompanied by ethanol, the classic antidote for methanol toxicity thattakes it out of your system. You will also see Dr. Schwartz comments to theNutraSweet team challenging their makeup artists to prove their propaganda. Aspartame is not a diet product. On the last page of the NSDA protest you willsee that aspartame is a drug that makes you crave carbohydrates so you gainweight. No wonder there is so much obesity in this country. H. J. Roberts, M.D., has declared Aspartame Disease to be a world epidemic. His medical text on the world plague will be available to the public at 1 800 -814-9800 in a few months where his other books and tapes on aspartame(marketed as NutraSweet, Equal, Spoonful, etc.) are now available. His materialwas distributed at the First International Conference on Emerging Diseases inAtlanta in March, l998 to doctors and scientists from 91 countries of the worldand the global press. Read also the damning CDC investigation which is alsoon DORway. You talk about how much methanol in diet soda. From Dr. Roberts bookAspartame (NutraSweet) Is It Safe?, page 42: "One liter of mostaspartame-sweetened soft drinks contains about 55 mg. methanol. Methanolconcentrations in aspartame-sweetened beverages increase with heating andduring prolonged storage. The amount of methanol ingested by heavyconsumers of aspartame products could readily exceed 250 mg. daily (Montel984). This is 32 times the limit of consumption recommended by theEnvironmental Protection Agency (EPA). 'Abuse does' (100 mg. aspartame/kgbody weight, or more) result in significant elevations of blood methanolconcentrations in normal subjects (Stegink l984). Moreoever, the level remainsdetectable for eight more hours. Monte (l984) calculated that one-hundredththe fatal level is standard criterion for safety used by the FDA) translates intoonly two 12 ounce cans."You cannot set an allowable daily dose of poison for humans. The allowabledaily dose of aspartame was set for rats and admitted by the FDA. It is one ofthe 26 questions they refuse to answer as listed on www.dorway.com Theoriginal studies that approved aspartame were the target of an indictment forfraud that was never carried out when two U.S. Prosecutors went to work forthe law firm defending the case and let the statute of limitations expire. Whenthe District Attorney goes to work for the godfather expect acquittal! RalphWalton, M.D. said on 60 Minutes with Dr. Olney in l996 that only 90 independentstudies are valid, of these 83 showed problems with aspartame. Six had to dowith the FDA who over-ruled a Board of Inquiry to approve aspartame (Dr.Arthur Hull Hayes) and one was definitely industry propaganda. So Dr. Waltonsays basically 100% of independent studies show problems with aspartame. Could this be the reason NutraSweet (Monsanto) refused to sell Dr. Walton theaspartame when he did a study? After one retinal detachment, someonebleeding from the eyes, and subjects complaining of being poisoned, theinstitution stopped the study. As to birth defects simply read Dr Louis Elsas (pediatric professor, genetics,Emory University) testimony before Congress on DORway and Dr. Robertspaper on pregnancy and aspartame. Aspartame has been outlawed in theEuropean Union for infants and small children.I hope this gives you sufficient information to get the facts to consumers. Otherwise, you can call me at 770 242-2599.Regards,Betty Martini, FounderMission Possible InternationalMission Possible Aviation (be sure to check out the aviation page on www.dorway.com) 770 242-2599


----------



## scottyswotty (Jun 29, 2000)

Nice one Flux.I take it back. You are not as behind the times as I thought. Very cool website.For all the rest of you. Take aspartame and the use of mercury at your own decision. But PLEASE DON'T BLINDLY FOLLOW PEOPLE JUST BECAUSE THEY HAVE READ MEDICAL TEXTS AND ARE WILLING TO MAKE SUCH BLATANTLY REPREHENSIBLE UNIVERSAL STATEMENTS THAT SUCH CHEMICALS ARE FINE.May you all not live in a toxic state.Oh and hell yes was I shouting







ScottySwottyFlux would you like to come to New Zealand and get some further education? You can stay at my place. Although we don't have aspartame in the pantry.


----------



## scottyswotty (Jun 29, 2000)

Nice one Flux.I take it back. You are not as behind the times as I thought. Very cool website.For all the rest of you. Take aspartame and the use of mercury at your own decision. But PLEASE DON'T BLINDLY FOLLOW PEOPLE JUST BECAUSE THEY HAVE READ MEDICAL TEXTS AND ARE WILLING TO MAKE SUCH BLATANTLY REPREHENSIBLE UNIVERSAL STATEMENTS THAT SUCH CHEMICALS ARE FINE.May you all not live in a toxic state.Oh and hell yes was I shouting







ScottySwottyFlux would you like to come to New Zealand and get some further education? You can stay at my place. Although we don't have aspartame in the pantry.


----------



## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:I don't know what hornswoggled means.










------------------I am not a doctor, nor do I work for profit in the medical/pharmacological field, but I have read scientific and medical texts, and have access to numerous sources of medical information that are not readily available to others. One should always consult a medical professional regarding advice received.


----------



## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:I don't know what hornswoggled means.










------------------I am not a doctor, nor do I work for profit in the medical/pharmacological field, but I have read scientific and medical texts, and have access to numerous sources of medical information that are not readily available to others. One should always consult a medical professional regarding advice received.


----------



## Julia37 (May 9, 2001)

I was looking for sugar free cough drops - I had the bug that's going around - and I found several that said "sugar free", but list sorbitol as an ingredient. My understanding is, sorbital is a sugar? It definitely bothers me, and always has. I also found one that said "sugar free" on the front of the package, then had 3 kinds of sugar in the ingredient list! Blatant false advertising.I always avoided aspartame and stuck with "natural" sugar for the reasons mentioned in this thread, I didn't think a chemical sweetener was healthy and I once saw a chemical analysis saying it caused seizures in children. But when I identified sugars as the cause of most of my pain, I couldn't give up sweets cold turkey. I have half a jar of equal in my cupboard and it tastes sweeter than stevia. Since I've been doing all right with stevia so far I probably won't use equal again.I only drink diet coke if I'm out and feel a need for caffeine - not very often. I've known people to have odd effects from diet coke. I knew a man who said he got a buzz from it. He had been treated for ADD with Ritalin as a child. I've known 2 or 3 people who were addicted to it, executives who had to have it handy in meetings and drank 6 or 7 a day. That can't be healthy. When you think about it, there's nothing healthy in soda - it's basically sugar (or aspartame) water, caffeine and gas. It's way healthier to drink only water, teas in moderation, and juice if it agrees with you.But we all need a nice cup of hot cocoa at times.







Interesting mention about saccharin, I didn't know it's a natural substance. I'm going to research it, maybe I can use if for baking. It would be nice to have chocolate chip cookies again.


----------



## Julia37 (May 9, 2001)

I was looking for sugar free cough drops - I had the bug that's going around - and I found several that said "sugar free", but list sorbitol as an ingredient. My understanding is, sorbital is a sugar? It definitely bothers me, and always has. I also found one that said "sugar free" on the front of the package, then had 3 kinds of sugar in the ingredient list! Blatant false advertising.I always avoided aspartame and stuck with "natural" sugar for the reasons mentioned in this thread, I didn't think a chemical sweetener was healthy and I once saw a chemical analysis saying it caused seizures in children. But when I identified sugars as the cause of most of my pain, I couldn't give up sweets cold turkey. I have half a jar of equal in my cupboard and it tastes sweeter than stevia. Since I've been doing all right with stevia so far I probably won't use equal again.I only drink diet coke if I'm out and feel a need for caffeine - not very often. I've known people to have odd effects from diet coke. I knew a man who said he got a buzz from it. He had been treated for ADD with Ritalin as a child. I've known 2 or 3 people who were addicted to it, executives who had to have it handy in meetings and drank 6 or 7 a day. That can't be healthy. When you think about it, there's nothing healthy in soda - it's basically sugar (or aspartame) water, caffeine and gas. It's way healthier to drink only water, teas in moderation, and juice if it agrees with you.But we all need a nice cup of hot cocoa at times.







Interesting mention about saccharin, I didn't know it's a natural substance. I'm going to research it, maybe I can use if for baking. It would be nice to have chocolate chip cookies again.


----------



## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:I didn't think a chemical sweetener was healthy


All sweeteners are chemicals.


> quote:and I once saw a chemical analysis saying it caused seizures in children


No sweetener does this.------------------I am not a doctor, nor do I work for profit in the medical/pharmacological field, but I have read scientific and medical texts, and have access to numerous sources of medical information that are not readily available to others. One should always consult a medical professional regarding advice received.[This message has been edited by flux (edited 09-28-2001).]


----------



## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:I didn't think a chemical sweetener was healthy


All sweeteners are chemicals.


> quote:and I once saw a chemical analysis saying it caused seizures in children


No sweetener does this.------------------I am not a doctor, nor do I work for profit in the medical/pharmacological field, but I have read scientific and medical texts, and have access to numerous sources of medical information that are not readily available to others. One should always consult a medical professional regarding advice received.[This message has been edited by flux (edited 09-28-2001).]


----------



## wyze88 (Jun 13, 2000)

flux .. stop spouting what is blatantly dangerous.The European communtiy has banned aspartame fo children and infants because of exactlywhat is posted above.You do not know what you are talking about. You are so blinded by your own tunnel vision you are giving people advice that can cause irreparable harm and you should stop it.You are ignorant and dangerous in this regard. Please stop it. I have no idea what you get out of it but please do not contribute to anyone making a child ill with what is a recognised poison in many places of the world. Get a life.[This message has been edited by wyze88 (edited 09-28-2001).]


----------



## wyze88 (Jun 13, 2000)

flux .. stop spouting what is blatantly dangerous.The European communtiy has banned aspartame fo children and infants because of exactlywhat is posted above.You do not know what you are talking about. You are so blinded by your own tunnel vision you are giving people advice that can cause irreparable harm and you should stop it.You are ignorant and dangerous in this regard. Please stop it. I have no idea what you get out of it but please do not contribute to anyone making a child ill with what is a recognised poison in many places of the world. Get a life.[This message has been edited by wyze88 (edited 09-28-2001).]


----------



## LisaL (Nov 14, 2000)

Wyze88,Amen to that. I am stunned that Flux is allowed to even post here at all....I guess hundreds of complaints about him go unnoticed. The funny thing is, he never even wrote what effect Aspartame has on gas. He seems to be more concerned with using words that date him back to the 1800's.


----------



## LisaL (Nov 14, 2000)

Wyze88,Amen to that. I am stunned that Flux is allowed to even post here at all....I guess hundreds of complaints about him go unnoticed. The funny thing is, he never even wrote what effect Aspartame has on gas. He seems to be more concerned with using words that date him back to the 1800's.


----------



## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

LisaLAFAIK all opinions are welcome here.Much of the dangers of artificial ANYthing are way overstated.Do some people have problems with them, yep, but there is a concerted effort by some to scare the pants off of people about things where the actual danger is very low. Books, lay magazines and internet articles are often not reviewed for factual information but by what will sell. Scaring people about things sell.Much of what flux presents is what science tells us. You have to let people fact check whatever you write in a scientific journal so much of the over-hyped dangers are not allowed in such tomes.I know many don't LIKE what science has to say. HECK often when you ARE a scientist you have to spend much time dealing with new information that challenges the way you thought the world worked, so don't LIKE what it has to say.But I don't think we should BAN science from this board.Flux may bother people with his manner, but he does present information that can be backed up with hard, repeatable, verifiable data.There is a large contingent of people on this board who LIKE to at least HEAR the scientific view. Even when they do not always LIKE it.<rant>If the opinion of the board is that science is not allowed, let me know I'll leave too.I almost always agree with Flux. So I guess I shouldn't open my mouth either.</rant>When flux was banned for awhile (when IMO he pushed the abrasive line a bit too far, not for presenting the scientific viewpoint)it caused a MUCH MUCH MUCH bigger uproar and disruption to the board than ANYTHING Flux every said.If you want to start another war on the board, go ahead, but most of us would REALLY prefer you just IGNORE Flux if you don't LIKE him.And if you don't want the scientific viewpoint ALSO ignore everything I say as well.K.------------------ï¿½When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fallï¿½Think of it, ALWAYS. ï¿½Mahatma GandhiMy story and what worked for me in greatly easing my IBS: http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/Forum17/HTML/000015.html I do not work for anyone who sells any IBS related products.


----------



## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

LisaLAFAIK all opinions are welcome here.Much of the dangers of artificial ANYthing are way overstated.Do some people have problems with them, yep, but there is a concerted effort by some to scare the pants off of people about things where the actual danger is very low. Books, lay magazines and internet articles are often not reviewed for factual information but by what will sell. Scaring people about things sell.Much of what flux presents is what science tells us. You have to let people fact check whatever you write in a scientific journal so much of the over-hyped dangers are not allowed in such tomes.I know many don't LIKE what science has to say. HECK often when you ARE a scientist you have to spend much time dealing with new information that challenges the way you thought the world worked, so don't LIKE what it has to say.But I don't think we should BAN science from this board.Flux may bother people with his manner, but he does present information that can be backed up with hard, repeatable, verifiable data.There is a large contingent of people on this board who LIKE to at least HEAR the scientific view. Even when they do not always LIKE it.<rant>If the opinion of the board is that science is not allowed, let me know I'll leave too.I almost always agree with Flux. So I guess I shouldn't open my mouth either.</rant>When flux was banned for awhile (when IMO he pushed the abrasive line a bit too far, not for presenting the scientific viewpoint)it caused a MUCH MUCH MUCH bigger uproar and disruption to the board than ANYTHING Flux every said.If you want to start another war on the board, go ahead, but most of us would REALLY prefer you just IGNORE Flux if you don't LIKE him.And if you don't want the scientific viewpoint ALSO ignore everything I say as well.K.------------------ï¿½When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fallï¿½Think of it, ALWAYS. ï¿½Mahatma GandhiMy story and what worked for me in greatly easing my IBS: http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/Forum17/HTML/000015.html I do not work for anyone who sells any IBS related products.


----------



## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Julia--Sorbitol is what is called a Sugar ALCOHOL.It is a sugar molecule with and extra OH group stuck on it. That makes it behave differnetly than a sugar molecule does. So it does not have the calories or dental caries thing that sugar has.K.------------------ï¿½When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fallï¿½Think of it, ALWAYS. ï¿½Mahatma GandhiMy story and what worked for me in greatly easing my IBS: http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/Forum17/HTML/000015.html I do not work for anyone who sells any IBS related products.


----------



## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Julia--Sorbitol is what is called a Sugar ALCOHOL.It is a sugar molecule with and extra OH group stuck on it. That makes it behave differnetly than a sugar molecule does. So it does not have the calories or dental caries thing that sugar has.K.------------------ï¿½When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fallï¿½Think of it, ALWAYS. ï¿½Mahatma GandhiMy story and what worked for me in greatly easing my IBS: http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/Forum17/HTML/000015.html I do not work for anyone who sells any IBS related products.


----------



## LisaL (Nov 14, 2000)

Wow. I may have missed something....when did I say I was not interested in the scientific view of things? I would also say that my posts about Flux's rudeness and his poor, condescending attitude are tame compared to some. I am confused about your mentioning that I should probably ignore your posts as well, since you are the first person I ask an opinion from.


----------



## LisaL (Nov 14, 2000)

Wow. I may have missed something....when did I say I was not interested in the scientific view of things? I would also say that my posts about Flux's rudeness and his poor, condescending attitude are tame compared to some. I am confused about your mentioning that I should probably ignore your posts as well, since you are the first person I ask an opinion from.


----------



## LisaL (Nov 14, 2000)

Sorry, one more thing; something I wrote yesterday:Mike,I am very touched that you took so much time to respond to my post. I appreciate it greatly. Since I am C, would the book still be of great value to me?You must have people in your life who give a lot to you and love you, because obviously you have gooten examples from somewhere on how to be kind. (same goes for K)


----------



## LisaL (Nov 14, 2000)

Sorry, one more thing; something I wrote yesterday:Mike,I am very touched that you took so much time to respond to my post. I appreciate it greatly. Since I am C, would the book still be of great value to me?You must have people in your life who give a lot to you and love you, because obviously you have gooten examples from somewhere on how to be kind. (same goes for K)


----------



## AD (Jan 23, 2000)

For weight loss, I'll agree it seems like the STUPIDEST idea in the world. Some people act like cutting out the 15 calories in a spoonful of sugar will make a difference in overall weight. Many of these people will even do this when they eat a huge, fattening, high-calorie meal. Comedians often joke about it, but I've actually seen people do it in restaurants. People order huge plates of high-fat meals and a big, rich dessert. Then they drink a diet soda or use artificial sweetener in tea or coffee, claiming they are "on a diet." Some diet!







I just cannot figure out why anyone would think they might lose weight cutting out a 15 calorie piece of gum or spoonful of sugar in tea or coffee or even an occasional diet soda. From what I understand, it would take about 4 1/2 cups of pure sugar (above and beyond one's basic calorie needs) just to add one pound of body weight.This is just my opinion, and I'm sure many agree, but if someone can eat sugar without a harmful physical reaction, then I believe there is no need for that person to even try an artificial sweetener.[This message has been edited by AD (edited 09-28-2001).]


----------



## AD (Jan 23, 2000)

For weight loss, I'll agree it seems like the STUPIDEST idea in the world. Some people act like cutting out the 15 calories in a spoonful of sugar will make a difference in overall weight. Many of these people will even do this when they eat a huge, fattening, high-calorie meal. Comedians often joke about it, but I've actually seen people do it in restaurants. People order huge plates of high-fat meals and a big, rich dessert. Then they drink a diet soda or use artificial sweetener in tea or coffee, claiming they are "on a diet." Some diet!







I just cannot figure out why anyone would think they might lose weight cutting out a 15 calorie piece of gum or spoonful of sugar in tea or coffee or even an occasional diet soda. From what I understand, it would take about 4 1/2 cups of pure sugar (above and beyond one's basic calorie needs) just to add one pound of body weight.This is just my opinion, and I'm sure many agree, but if someone can eat sugar without a harmful physical reaction, then I believe there is no need for that person to even try an artificial sweetener.[This message has been edited by AD (edited 09-28-2001).]


----------



## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

I may be a bit touchy..It wasn't just your comments I was also responding to wyze88'sMostly what got me about your post was that flux should be banned. If his viewpoint isn't allowed I would suspect mine shouldn't be either.But when people say flux is spreading misinformaiton and lies than I guess I am too as I pretty much agree with him.And if what flux says is so offensive he should be banned, then I wonder if I shouldn't be banned with him.Most of what upsets people about him is he presents the scientific side of things.I'm sorry if I over reacted. But I also lived through the Flux War we had hear earlier this year, and I REALLLLLLLY don't want to see another one.FWIWI wouldn't feed aspartame to a infant because it contains the amino acid Phenylalanine.This an amino acid we ALL have in our bodies and we all NEED. However in people with a very specific genetic condtion they don't break it down right and the build up of this PERFECTLY NATURAL compound--one we use in EVERY cell of our body causes the brain to be destroyed. If you get them past the first couple of years on a phenylalanine reduced diets then they can eat phenylalanine without causing any problems. It seems to be dangerous primarily in the time frame when the brain is still going though a rapid development.The do know that when people with PKU get pregnant they also have to avoid phenylalanine for the health of the fetus.And they probably should avoid loading the body with phenylalanine even though they can eat a normal diet with normal levels of phenylalanine once they are grown.I belive people with PKU get much higher levesl of phenylalanine in them than would really be possible to get from a normal person eating aspartame as normal people break the excess down readily. But I don't have the data specifically on that. But basically the PKU diet includes virtually no protien other than a specialied protein formula that has no phenylalanine in it.Aspartame is made from two amino acids you have in every cell of your body hooked together in a synthetic way.So as artifical things go it's relatively natural.Now, it seems to make some people feel funny, and if it does that to you, then don't eat it.K.PS. What the medical literature has to say about aspartame and seizures. Epilepsia 1995 Mar;36(3):270-5	Aspartame and seizure susceptibility: results of a clinical study in reportedly sensitive individuals.Rowan AJ, Shaywitz BA, Tuchman L, French JA, Luciano D, Sullivan CM.Department of Neurology, Department of Veterans Affairs Medical Center, Bronx, NY 10468, USA.The high intensity sweetener aspartame has been implicated anecdotally in seizure provocation. This possibility was investigated with a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled, cross-over study. After an extensive search, 18 individuals (16 adults and 2 children) who had seizures allegedly related to aspartame consumption were admitted to adult or pediatric epilepsy monitoring units where their EEG was monitored continuously for 5 days. Aspartame (50 mg/kg) or identically enpackaged placebo was administered in divided doses at 0800, 1000, and 1200 h on study days 2 and 4. All meals were uniformly standardized on treatment days. No clinical seizures or other adverse experiences were observed after aspartame ingestion. Mean plasma phenylalanine (Phe) concentrations increased significantly after aspartame ingestion (83.6 microM) as compared with placebo (52.3 microM). *Results suggest that aspartame, in acute dosage of approximately 50 mg/kg, is no more likely than placebo to cause seizures in individuals who reported that their seizures were provoked by aspartame consumption.*J Am Diet Assoc 1992 May;92(5):598-601	An analysis of FDA passive surveillance reports of seizures associated with consumption of aspartame.Tollefson L, Barnard RJ.Clinical Nutrition Assessment Section, US Food and Drug Administration, Washington, DC 20204.Aspartame, the methyl ester of the dipeptide formed from combining phenylalanine and aspartic acid, was approved by the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) in July 1981. FDA monitors complaints from consumers and health professionals through the Adverse Reaction Monitoring System, a passive surveillance program FDA has received 251 reports of seizures that have been linked to ingestion of aspartame by consumers. In most cases, information obtained from the complainants' medical records as well as data on consumption patterns, temporal relationships, *and challenge tests did not support the claim that the occurrences of the seizures were linked to consumption of aspartame.* ------------------ï¿½When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fallï¿½Think of it, ALWAYS. ï¿½Mahatma GandhiMy story and what worked for me in greatly easing my IBS: http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/Forum17/HTML/000015.html I do not work for anyone who sells any IBS related products.


----------



## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

I may be a bit touchy..It wasn't just your comments I was also responding to wyze88'sMostly what got me about your post was that flux should be banned. If his viewpoint isn't allowed I would suspect mine shouldn't be either.But when people say flux is spreading misinformaiton and lies than I guess I am too as I pretty much agree with him.And if what flux says is so offensive he should be banned, then I wonder if I shouldn't be banned with him.Most of what upsets people about him is he presents the scientific side of things.I'm sorry if I over reacted. But I also lived through the Flux War we had hear earlier this year, and I REALLLLLLLY don't want to see another one.FWIWI wouldn't feed aspartame to a infant because it contains the amino acid Phenylalanine.This an amino acid we ALL have in our bodies and we all NEED. However in people with a very specific genetic condtion they don't break it down right and the build up of this PERFECTLY NATURAL compound--one we use in EVERY cell of our body causes the brain to be destroyed. If you get them past the first couple of years on a phenylalanine reduced diets then they can eat phenylalanine without causing any problems. It seems to be dangerous primarily in the time frame when the brain is still going though a rapid development.The do know that when people with PKU get pregnant they also have to avoid phenylalanine for the health of the fetus.And they probably should avoid loading the body with phenylalanine even though they can eat a normal diet with normal levels of phenylalanine once they are grown.I belive people with PKU get much higher levesl of phenylalanine in them than would really be possible to get from a normal person eating aspartame as normal people break the excess down readily. But I don't have the data specifically on that. But basically the PKU diet includes virtually no protien other than a specialied protein formula that has no phenylalanine in it.Aspartame is made from two amino acids you have in every cell of your body hooked together in a synthetic way.So as artifical things go it's relatively natural.Now, it seems to make some people feel funny, and if it does that to you, then don't eat it.K.PS. What the medical literature has to say about aspartame and seizures. Epilepsia 1995 Mar;36(3):270-5	Aspartame and seizure susceptibility: results of a clinical study in reportedly sensitive individuals.Rowan AJ, Shaywitz BA, Tuchman L, French JA, Luciano D, Sullivan CM.Department of Neurology, Department of Veterans Affairs Medical Center, Bronx, NY 10468, USA.The high intensity sweetener aspartame has been implicated anecdotally in seizure provocation. This possibility was investigated with a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled, cross-over study. After an extensive search, 18 individuals (16 adults and 2 children) who had seizures allegedly related to aspartame consumption were admitted to adult or pediatric epilepsy monitoring units where their EEG was monitored continuously for 5 days. Aspartame (50 mg/kg) or identically enpackaged placebo was administered in divided doses at 0800, 1000, and 1200 h on study days 2 and 4. All meals were uniformly standardized on treatment days. No clinical seizures or other adverse experiences were observed after aspartame ingestion. Mean plasma phenylalanine (Phe) concentrations increased significantly after aspartame ingestion (83.6 microM) as compared with placebo (52.3 microM). *Results suggest that aspartame, in acute dosage of approximately 50 mg/kg, is no more likely than placebo to cause seizures in individuals who reported that their seizures were provoked by aspartame consumption.*J Am Diet Assoc 1992 May;92(5):598-601	An analysis of FDA passive surveillance reports of seizures associated with consumption of aspartame.Tollefson L, Barnard RJ.Clinical Nutrition Assessment Section, US Food and Drug Administration, Washington, DC 20204.Aspartame, the methyl ester of the dipeptide formed from combining phenylalanine and aspartic acid, was approved by the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) in July 1981. FDA monitors complaints from consumers and health professionals through the Adverse Reaction Monitoring System, a passive surveillance program FDA has received 251 reports of seizures that have been linked to ingestion of aspartame by consumers. In most cases, information obtained from the complainants' medical records as well as data on consumption patterns, temporal relationships, *and challenge tests did not support the claim that the occurrences of the seizures were linked to consumption of aspartame.* ------------------ï¿½When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fallï¿½Think of it, ALWAYS. ï¿½Mahatma GandhiMy story and what worked for me in greatly easing my IBS: http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/Forum17/HTML/000015.html I do not work for anyone who sells any IBS related products.


----------



## LisaL (Nov 14, 2000)

That is great information to know. I agree that a lot of the time people use scare tactics to make us think something is dangerous.As far as me wanting Flux banned, I know that a lot of people disagree with me...I just wish he would be asked to cool it with the attitude that he knows infuriates many.My complaint, truly, has never been about him presenting scientific information. It is simply that he is rude, arrogant, condescending, and never speaks as a human being about anything he has gone through with IBS.You never, ever present things in this manner. I realize however that just beacuse it gets me upset, I should still learn to bite my tongue.


----------



## LisaL (Nov 14, 2000)

That is great information to know. I agree that a lot of the time people use scare tactics to make us think something is dangerous.As far as me wanting Flux banned, I know that a lot of people disagree with me...I just wish he would be asked to cool it with the attitude that he knows infuriates many.My complaint, truly, has never been about him presenting scientific information. It is simply that he is rude, arrogant, condescending, and never speaks as a human being about anything he has gone through with IBS.You never, ever present things in this manner. I realize however that just beacuse it gets me upset, I should still learn to bite my tongue.


----------



## wyze88 (Jun 13, 2000)

and who paid for those studies k ?look at the go round between fda and searle and monsanto. all the studies clearing the sweeteners have been paid for by the companies. read the documents from the fda officials who blew the whistle.i'm in favour of science; but it is far from infallible. thalidomide, phenphen ... i won't bore you with the numbers.science is not at fault -- it is manipulation by the companies. the funding comes with built in answers; if you don't believe me, check it out. not all science is good when it is handled this way.flux is like a robotic computer -- gigo, which as you know is garbage in, and garbage out. He can read as many med papers as he wishes, but without deeper questioning of what and where, specifically regarding funding, it is simply empty of any human rationale.yeah, the school is still out on aspartame. but like the activists say, give yourself the six week test. stop taking and see how you feel. i won't battle with flux unless he posts information that is 100% inaccurate and dangerous, which he has done here.at least accept and acknowledge that there IS A VALID ISSUE around aspartame. and now you suggest it is natural. yeah, well so it tobacco if that's the guideline. and look at the lies surrounding that for tens of years.thanks for dis-encouraging use in children. i appreciate it.i'm not going to post again on this.acrimony du jour is the only thing on flux's menu and i'm not dining in his toxic world.funny how its only in the US that people don't know about the dangers of aspartame ?funny really if you think about it.Japan and Europe must be wrong after all. funny that too when you think about it. must be their scientists are less qualified than the US ones ? or perhaps simply funded differently ? funny how the great people in the USA are the only ones to drink synthetic bovine growth hormone in their daily milk, no-one else in the world accepts it. ( oh, and yes, it's made by the same companies as aspartame)same thing applies to food colourings etc -- the United States puts more rubbish in their food than any other country non earth and yet it is accepted. But then it also must be accepted that the United States has a higher incidence of IBS D that any where else in the world. mikenl has some stats on that. must be all coincidence i'm sure. and where's the science in that ??rose-tinted glasses anyone ?bye.


----------



## wyze88 (Jun 13, 2000)

and who paid for those studies k ?look at the go round between fda and searle and monsanto. all the studies clearing the sweeteners have been paid for by the companies. read the documents from the fda officials who blew the whistle.i'm in favour of science; but it is far from infallible. thalidomide, phenphen ... i won't bore you with the numbers.science is not at fault -- it is manipulation by the companies. the funding comes with built in answers; if you don't believe me, check it out. not all science is good when it is handled this way.flux is like a robotic computer -- gigo, which as you know is garbage in, and garbage out. He can read as many med papers as he wishes, but without deeper questioning of what and where, specifically regarding funding, it is simply empty of any human rationale.yeah, the school is still out on aspartame. but like the activists say, give yourself the six week test. stop taking and see how you feel. i won't battle with flux unless he posts information that is 100% inaccurate and dangerous, which he has done here.at least accept and acknowledge that there IS A VALID ISSUE around aspartame. and now you suggest it is natural. yeah, well so it tobacco if that's the guideline. and look at the lies surrounding that for tens of years.thanks for dis-encouraging use in children. i appreciate it.i'm not going to post again on this.acrimony du jour is the only thing on flux's menu and i'm not dining in his toxic world.funny how its only in the US that people don't know about the dangers of aspartame ?funny really if you think about it.Japan and Europe must be wrong after all. funny that too when you think about it. must be their scientists are less qualified than the US ones ? or perhaps simply funded differently ? funny how the great people in the USA are the only ones to drink synthetic bovine growth hormone in their daily milk, no-one else in the world accepts it. ( oh, and yes, it's made by the same companies as aspartame)same thing applies to food colourings etc -- the United States puts more rubbish in their food than any other country non earth and yet it is accepted. But then it also must be accepted that the United States has a higher incidence of IBS D that any where else in the world. mikenl has some stats on that. must be all coincidence i'm sure. and where's the science in that ??rose-tinted glasses anyone ?bye.


----------



## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

The FDA study was of course funded by the FDA.If you get the papers they HAVE to list who payed for it. I'm just not near the library today.At least in the Sci. Journals you know who paid for it.The European's have a very different relationship with food.In France they sell many unpasturized things you can't here because they don't even want that sort of adulteration, even if that means Listeria and some other bacteria make people ill.Most of the European debate about Aspartame I could find on the web in a quick search (Aspartame Europe Banned) was on the concern that Aspartame was made with genetically modified bacteria and Europe overall has a very low tolerance for that.FWIW thalidomide was approved by the Europeans and was NOT by the FDA. So across the pond hasn't always caught dangers. There are any number of drugs that get approved on one side of the world or the other. Some things the FDA won't approve are readily available in Europe and visa versa. Paracetamol (or whatever that pain reliever is...it's alot like Tylenol but just a bit different) may be more toxic to either the liver or the kideneys (the class from the 1980's is a bit fuzzy) and the US won't approve it but most other countries did.It's really a mixed bag when you compare Europe to the US in food and drug approvals. They have different priorities. Don't know for sure which one is better than the other, they are just different.FWIW I say lay magaizines in the US from about the time it was approved sounding alarm bells so I dunno if the USers don't know because the information is suppressed or anything or more because as a whole we don't seem to care about what is in our food.K.------------------ï¿½When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fallï¿½Think of it, ALWAYS. ï¿½Mahatma GandhiMy story and what worked for me in greatly easing my IBS: http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/Forum17/HTML/000015.html I do not work for anyone who sells any IBS related products.


----------



## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

The FDA study was of course funded by the FDA.If you get the papers they HAVE to list who payed for it. I'm just not near the library today.At least in the Sci. Journals you know who paid for it.The European's have a very different relationship with food.In France they sell many unpasturized things you can't here because they don't even want that sort of adulteration, even if that means Listeria and some other bacteria make people ill.Most of the European debate about Aspartame I could find on the web in a quick search (Aspartame Europe Banned) was on the concern that Aspartame was made with genetically modified bacteria and Europe overall has a very low tolerance for that.FWIW thalidomide was approved by the Europeans and was NOT by the FDA. So across the pond hasn't always caught dangers. There are any number of drugs that get approved on one side of the world or the other. Some things the FDA won't approve are readily available in Europe and visa versa. Paracetamol (or whatever that pain reliever is...it's alot like Tylenol but just a bit different) may be more toxic to either the liver or the kideneys (the class from the 1980's is a bit fuzzy) and the US won't approve it but most other countries did.It's really a mixed bag when you compare Europe to the US in food and drug approvals. They have different priorities. Don't know for sure which one is better than the other, they are just different.FWIW I say lay magaizines in the US from about the time it was approved sounding alarm bells so I dunno if the USers don't know because the information is suppressed or anything or more because as a whole we don't seem to care about what is in our food.K.------------------ï¿½When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fallï¿½Think of it, ALWAYS. ï¿½Mahatma GandhiMy story and what worked for me in greatly easing my IBS: http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/Forum17/HTML/000015.html I do not work for anyone who sells any IBS related products.


----------



## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:The funny thing is, he never even wrote what effect Aspartame has on gas


None.


> quote:I almost always agree with Flux.


Agreed









> quote:yeah, the school is still out on aspartame.





> quote:at least accept and acknowledge that there IS A VALID ISSUE around aspartame


No, the evidence is overwhelming that aspartame is a









> quote: But then it also must be accepted that the United States has a higher incidence of IBS D that any where else in the world.


No, it's about the same worldwide. There is nothing special about the US.------------------I am not a doctor, nor do I work for profit in the medical/pharmacological field, but I have read scientific and medical texts, and have access to numerous sources of medical information that are not readily available to others. One should always consult a medical professional regarding advice received.[This message has been edited by flux (edited 09-28-2001).]


----------



## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:The funny thing is, he never even wrote what effect Aspartame has on gas


None.


> quote:I almost always agree with Flux.


Agreed









> quote:yeah, the school is still out on aspartame.





> quote:at least accept and acknowledge that there IS A VALID ISSUE around aspartame


No, the evidence is overwhelming that aspartame is a









> quote: But then it also must be accepted that the United States has a higher incidence of IBS D that any where else in the world.


No, it's about the same worldwide. There is nothing special about the US.------------------I am not a doctor, nor do I work for profit in the medical/pharmacological field, but I have read scientific and medical texts, and have access to numerous sources of medical information that are not readily available to others. One should always consult a medical professional regarding advice received.[This message has been edited by flux (edited 09-28-2001).]


----------



## wyze88 (Jun 13, 2000)

this has to be my final contribution so I do not partake of acrimony du jour.flux, you're so smart and accurate about every little thing, so how come you GOOFEDsuch BIG TIME and posted that url re. the nanci markle letter ? Clearly and obviously you did not read it before you posted. I must wonder how much else that applies to.Credibility gap ?Q.E.D.


----------



## wyze88 (Jun 13, 2000)

this has to be my final contribution so I do not partake of acrimony du jour.flux, you're so smart and accurate about every little thing, so how come you GOOFEDsuch BIG TIME and posted that url re. the nanci markle letter ? Clearly and obviously you did not read it before you posted. I must wonder how much else that applies to.Credibility gap ?Q.E.D.


----------



## Julia37 (May 9, 2001)

Kmottus, thanks for clarifying the sorbitol structure. I find it interesting that an alcohol molecule is present in fruit. I had been under the impression alcohol is only created by fermentation. (this is what happens when you get your education from childhood science books and sci fi novels)







I expect this is true of other sweeteners I've seen on labels recently such as malitol and mannitol. I suppose they're sugar alcohols also. I tried some "sugar-free" cookies with malitol in them, and the first half of the bag made me gassy but caused no pain, and the second half caused me pain. Oh well.







I wonder what effect these "sugar alcohols" have on diabetics? Is it safe for products containg them to be called "sugar free"?K, you are incredibly thorough, tactful, and kind, and I have a soft spot for you because it was your answers to my questions regarding sweeteners and simethicone that enabled me to control my IBS. I'm sure no one wants you to leave the board, we'd be lost without you!














It's Flux's attitude and manner that are so offensive, and that he usually doesn't post studies or details so we can see for ourselves. That would raise doubts in the mind of almost anyone. I can't imagine anyone comparing you to him.


----------



## Julia37 (May 9, 2001)

Kmottus, thanks for clarifying the sorbitol structure. I find it interesting that an alcohol molecule is present in fruit. I had been under the impression alcohol is only created by fermentation. (this is what happens when you get your education from childhood science books and sci fi novels)







I expect this is true of other sweeteners I've seen on labels recently such as malitol and mannitol. I suppose they're sugar alcohols also. I tried some "sugar-free" cookies with malitol in them, and the first half of the bag made me gassy but caused no pain, and the second half caused me pain. Oh well.







I wonder what effect these "sugar alcohols" have on diabetics? Is it safe for products containg them to be called "sugar free"?K, you are incredibly thorough, tactful, and kind, and I have a soft spot for you because it was your answers to my questions regarding sweeteners and simethicone that enabled me to control my IBS. I'm sure no one wants you to leave the board, we'd be lost without you!














It's Flux's attitude and manner that are so offensive, and that he usually doesn't post studies or details so we can see for ourselves. That would raise doubts in the mind of almost anyone. I can't imagine anyone comparing you to him.


----------



## rachelclare (Sep 16, 2001)

Kmottus - it seems that in science there is reasonable proof for and against everything? I wouldn't want for you not to post but Mike is a little abbrasive in his manner - a healthy scepticism of a chemical product that makes an industry millions, ney billions is appropriate, these things are rarely presented to the stupid public (me) with warts an' all - after all those posting against aspartame seem to have as good a credentials as those posting for. We have all experienced two different diagnosis from Doctors - equally qualified. However while I shall personally avoid aspartame now, and so will my children I do have to correct the fact that the European union has banned aspartame.It may be banned (I don't know)in specific childrens products but most squash drinks (dilutable fruit tasting drinks) used by every household for children by the gallon are marketed as "no added sugar" instead they add aspartame and or saccharin. I cannot tell you how large the market is here and is 98% used by kids. Most childrens medicines are also sugar free - havent sussed that one out yet. Thats not including the diet soda market. I suppose though they would argue this is not aimed at kids. Just to reiterate (I am science-lexic, like dislexic but re science):I shall try to track down stevia but if not have I understood correctly that sorbitol does not have the same alleged question mark over it, or sacharrin. Yes I am a bit like the dieter described above but when I put sugar in my herbal tea, or honey I put on about 3lbs a week so I would like a substitute - drinking herbal teas stop me eating everything that comes my way but I need them sweet. Even the dog is in danger sometimes!


----------



## rachelclare (Sep 16, 2001)

Kmottus - it seems that in science there is reasonable proof for and against everything? I wouldn't want for you not to post but Mike is a little abbrasive in his manner - a healthy scepticism of a chemical product that makes an industry millions, ney billions is appropriate, these things are rarely presented to the stupid public (me) with warts an' all - after all those posting against aspartame seem to have as good a credentials as those posting for. We have all experienced two different diagnosis from Doctors - equally qualified. However while I shall personally avoid aspartame now, and so will my children I do have to correct the fact that the European union has banned aspartame.It may be banned (I don't know)in specific childrens products but most squash drinks (dilutable fruit tasting drinks) used by every household for children by the gallon are marketed as "no added sugar" instead they add aspartame and or saccharin. I cannot tell you how large the market is here and is 98% used by kids. Most childrens medicines are also sugar free - havent sussed that one out yet. Thats not including the diet soda market. I suppose though they would argue this is not aimed at kids. Just to reiterate (I am science-lexic, like dislexic but re science):I shall try to track down stevia but if not have I understood correctly that sorbitol does not have the same alleged question mark over it, or sacharrin. Yes I am a bit like the dieter described above but when I put sugar in my herbal tea, or honey I put on about 3lbs a week so I would like a substitute - drinking herbal teas stop me eating everything that comes my way but I need them sweet. Even the dog is in danger sometimes!


----------



## rachelclare (Sep 16, 2001)

So so sorry Mike I meant Flux.By the way I agree with you about the Paracetamol thing - lethal, an ER room considers that you have overdose if you take more than nine tablets in 24hours. The suggested dose is 8 - how easy would it be to make a mistake, or use a cold/flu product containing paracetamol as well as your recommended dose - apparantly there are 3-400 deaths every year this way. Be careful US visitors as a US pharmacist told me tylenol is the same, I didn't think so but he was ademant (in Walmart in Santa Barbara CA) I am not so sure about the unpasturised products in Europe though, there has been an outcry in UK that European legislation is banning our sale of unpasturized milk, not for me but truly organic for those that want it.


----------



## rachelclare (Sep 16, 2001)

So so sorry Mike I meant Flux.By the way I agree with you about the Paracetamol thing - lethal, an ER room considers that you have overdose if you take more than nine tablets in 24hours. The suggested dose is 8 - how easy would it be to make a mistake, or use a cold/flu product containing paracetamol as well as your recommended dose - apparantly there are 3-400 deaths every year this way. Be careful US visitors as a US pharmacist told me tylenol is the same, I didn't think so but he was ademant (in Walmart in Santa Barbara CA) I am not so sure about the unpasturised products in Europe though, there has been an outcry in UK that European legislation is banning our sale of unpasturized milk, not for me but truly organic for those that want it.


----------



## rachelclare (Sep 16, 2001)

Wyze88 - spot on. UK (and I assume Europe) are not solely funded by the multinationals with so much to gain from a particular result - however privatisation is coming and it is a shame - we follow the American dream and I sometimes think it is not going to be the dream we think it is.


----------



## rachelclare (Sep 16, 2001)

Wyze88 - spot on. UK (and I assume Europe) are not solely funded by the multinationals with so much to gain from a particular result - however privatisation is coming and it is a shame - we follow the American dream and I sometimes think it is not going to be the dream we think it is.


----------



## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

> quote:Kmottus, thanks for clarifying the sorbitol structure. I find it interesting that an alcohol molecule is present in fruit. I had been under the impression alcohol is only created by fermentation.


It's a problem with lay syntax vs scientific jargon.In lay terms pretty much the word alcohol means Ethanol (one of many alcohols) which is generally produced from the fementation of fruits and grains (beer, wine, spirits).In scientific jargon alcohol means it has an -OH group stuck on it. So you can have many types of alcohol.


> quote:. Oh well. [] I wonder what effect these "sugar alcohols" have on diabetics? Is it safe for products containg them to be called "sugar free"?


Since they aren't absorbed into the blood stream they don't effect blood glucose levels. They are commonly used sugar substitues for diabetic products. The reason they cause gas and diarrhea is that we don't absorb them, but he bacteria in the colon can metabolize them releasing gas.


> quote:Be careful US visitors as a US pharmacist told me tylenol is the same, I didn't think so but he was ademant (in Walmart in Santa Barbara CA)


From what I understand Tylenol is less problematic than the paratecemol, BUT you can pretty easily overdose on Tylenol as well. At one time it was the listed as the #1 way to commit suicide in an English underground pamphlet. I don't know if the toxicity mechanisms are the same, but for Tylenol the problem is very small amounts of it gets metabolised in a way that is toxic in the liver. NORMALLY you have plenty of a mop-up molecule to take care of it. But there is a finite supply of it so you can overwhelm it and then you die of liver failure. It isn't a clean suicide because it takes a week or so to die and is rather painful and messy, but often they don't realize you ODed on Tylenol until after it is too late.If you drink alcoholic beverages regularly, particularly in large quantities, AVOID tylenol as alcohol alters your liver's metabolic enzymes in a way that makes you make more than the usual amounts of toxic metabolites so you get toxic effects at lower doses.


> quote:Wyze88 - spot on. UK (and I assume Europe) are not solely funded by the multinationals with so much to gain from a particular result - however privatisation is coming and it is a shame - we follow the American dream and I sometimes think it is not going to be the dream we think it is.


 Much of the research in the US is funded by the NSF and the NIH which are gov't agencies. Also the Armed forces also provide for a lot of basic research dollars. Drug companies do pay for the testing that brings the drug to market, but there is a fair amount of independantly funded work done with them. There are also a large number of private foundations that fund research. I dunno why you think the ONLY funding for research in the US is by large companies, they do some, but there *IS* tons of research not payed for by people with vested interests.K.------------------ï¿½When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fallï¿½Think of it, ALWAYS. ï¿½Mahatma GandhiMy story and what worked for me in greatly easing my IBS: http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/Forum17/HTML/000015.html I do not work for anyone who sells any IBS related products.


----------



## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

> quote:Kmottus, thanks for clarifying the sorbitol structure. I find it interesting that an alcohol molecule is present in fruit. I had been under the impression alcohol is only created by fermentation.


It's a problem with lay syntax vs scientific jargon.In lay terms pretty much the word alcohol means Ethanol (one of many alcohols) which is generally produced from the fementation of fruits and grains (beer, wine, spirits).In scientific jargon alcohol means it has an -OH group stuck on it. So you can have many types of alcohol.


> quote:. Oh well. [] I wonder what effect these "sugar alcohols" have on diabetics? Is it safe for products containg them to be called "sugar free"?


Since they aren't absorbed into the blood stream they don't effect blood glucose levels. They are commonly used sugar substitues for diabetic products. The reason they cause gas and diarrhea is that we don't absorb them, but he bacteria in the colon can metabolize them releasing gas.


> quote:Be careful US visitors as a US pharmacist told me tylenol is the same, I didn't think so but he was ademant (in Walmart in Santa Barbara CA)


From what I understand Tylenol is less problematic than the paratecemol, BUT you can pretty easily overdose on Tylenol as well. At one time it was the listed as the #1 way to commit suicide in an English underground pamphlet. I don't know if the toxicity mechanisms are the same, but for Tylenol the problem is very small amounts of it gets metabolised in a way that is toxic in the liver. NORMALLY you have plenty of a mop-up molecule to take care of it. But there is a finite supply of it so you can overwhelm it and then you die of liver failure. It isn't a clean suicide because it takes a week or so to die and is rather painful and messy, but often they don't realize you ODed on Tylenol until after it is too late.If you drink alcoholic beverages regularly, particularly in large quantities, AVOID tylenol as alcohol alters your liver's metabolic enzymes in a way that makes you make more than the usual amounts of toxic metabolites so you get toxic effects at lower doses.


> quote:Wyze88 - spot on. UK (and I assume Europe) are not solely funded by the multinationals with so much to gain from a particular result - however privatisation is coming and it is a shame - we follow the American dream and I sometimes think it is not going to be the dream we think it is.


 Much of the research in the US is funded by the NSF and the NIH which are gov't agencies. Also the Armed forces also provide for a lot of basic research dollars. Drug companies do pay for the testing that brings the drug to market, but there is a fair amount of independantly funded work done with them. There are also a large number of private foundations that fund research. I dunno why you think the ONLY funding for research in the US is by large companies, they do some, but there *IS* tons of research not payed for by people with vested interests.K.------------------ï¿½When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fallï¿½Think of it, ALWAYS. ï¿½Mahatma GandhiMy story and what worked for me in greatly easing my IBS: http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/Forum17/HTML/000015.html I do not work for anyone who sells any IBS related products.


----------



## Batty (May 20, 2000)

Boy, this is alot of what I see anymore on this site....What happen to helping and supporting each other? Instead I see more degradeing of each others comments.We are not all physicians or scientists here we are all people who are suffering with this disease and need support. Ideas for relief. Not to be putting down each other. If you are a licensed physician then YOU should be correcting things or if you are a bonified medical scientist then you should clarifiy things.Let's Support IBS and not EGO's!







Stick together as a group!Batty


----------



## Batty (May 20, 2000)

Boy, this is alot of what I see anymore on this site....What happen to helping and supporting each other? Instead I see more degradeing of each others comments.We are not all physicians or scientists here we are all people who are suffering with this disease and need support. Ideas for relief. Not to be putting down each other. If you are a licensed physician then YOU should be correcting things or if you are a bonified medical scientist then you should clarifiy things.Let's Support IBS and not EGO's!







Stick together as a group!Batty


----------



## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Just happens on a few threads. Particularly when what may be misinformation gets presented.The vast majority of threads are all warm and fuzzy, but eveyone pretty much sees a different picture.Um. Let's see if my credentials are acceptable to you for me to express my opinion. B.A. Biology, Minor in Chemisty.M.S. Biology.Ph.D. Biology specializing in Genetics and Devleopment with a minor in Environmental Toxicology.Most of my research since then has focused on either how chemical in the environment or diet either damage or protect us and measuring and mapping environmentally important chemicals in air.Please let me know if I do not meet your criteria for having sufficient background.I usually don't throw the Alphabet soup around because I think it can create barriers and makes other people feel ill at ease talking with me. But I do have them. I've been pretty open about my background from time to time, but I don't feel the need to toss it in everyone's face everytime I post.K, Ph.D.------------------ï¿½When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fallï¿½Think of it, ALWAYS. ï¿½Mahatma GandhiMy story and what worked for me in greatly easing my IBS: http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/Forum17/HTML/000015.html I do not work for anyone who sells any IBS related products.[This message has been edited by kmottus (edited 09-29-2001).]


----------



## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Just happens on a few threads. Particularly when what may be misinformation gets presented.The vast majority of threads are all warm and fuzzy, but eveyone pretty much sees a different picture.Um. Let's see if my credentials are acceptable to you for me to express my opinion. B.A. Biology, Minor in Chemisty.M.S. Biology.Ph.D. Biology specializing in Genetics and Devleopment with a minor in Environmental Toxicology.Most of my research since then has focused on either how chemical in the environment or diet either damage or protect us and measuring and mapping environmentally important chemicals in air.Please let me know if I do not meet your criteria for having sufficient background.I usually don't throw the Alphabet soup around because I think it can create barriers and makes other people feel ill at ease talking with me. But I do have them. I've been pretty open about my background from time to time, but I don't feel the need to toss it in everyone's face everytime I post.K, Ph.D.------------------ï¿½When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fallï¿½Think of it, ALWAYS. ï¿½Mahatma GandhiMy story and what worked for me in greatly easing my IBS: http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/Forum17/HTML/000015.html I do not work for anyone who sells any IBS related products.[This message has been edited by kmottus (edited 09-29-2001).]


----------



## rachelclare (Sep 16, 2001)

K help from you with your vast knowledge is always appreciated.


----------



## rachelclare (Sep 16, 2001)

K help from you with your vast knowledge is always appreciated.


----------



## Batty (May 20, 2000)

Then we should listen to you more!I never had a problem with you anyway!I just would like people to get more help than to try and prove each other wrong or better than one another.


----------



## Batty (May 20, 2000)

Then we should listen to you more!I never had a problem with you anyway!I just would like people to get more help than to try and prove each other wrong or better than one another.


----------



## Nat (Sep 29, 2001)

Like anything that I eat these days, it's a trial and error thing. I write everything down in a diary and see if I react to it. If so, I eliminate it!


----------



## Nat (Sep 29, 2001)

Like anything that I eat these days, it's a trial and error thing. I write everything down in a diary and see if I react to it. If so, I eliminate it!


----------



## Fille (Nov 4, 2000)

kmottus...i am not sure if you or someone else has already answered this, but....what is the makeup of splenda? i know that is being marketed as "from sugar" but that means diddly..are they just adding an OH bond...or some other bond, so that we are unable to digest it? thanks.


----------



## Fille (Nov 4, 2000)

kmottus...i am not sure if you or someone else has already answered this, but....what is the makeup of splenda? i know that is being marketed as "from sugar" but that means diddly..are they just adding an OH bond...or some other bond, so that we are unable to digest it? thanks.


----------



## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

It is also called sucralose or more completely: 1,6-Dichloro-1,6-dideoxy-beta-D-fructofuranosyl-4-chloro-4-deoxy-alpha-D-galactopyranoside(for comparison table sugar's full technical name looks like this: beta-D-fructofuranosyl-alpha-D-Glucopyranoside)They took off some -OH's that are part of the regular sugar and added chlorine molecules.


> quote:Splenda is made from sucralose, which was discovered in 1976 at Queen's College, London, England. Researchers took the three hydroxyl groups found in a sugar molecule and replaced them with chlorine atoms. This stabilizes the bond between the sugar molecules and allows most of them to pass through the body without being absorbed. Simply put, the microorganisms that live in the body are unable to break down the sucralose bond, so the body only absorbs about 15% of the material. Sucralose is extremely water-soluble and is rapidly excreted from the body in urine.


For you to use table sugar in the body typically you have to break the two sugar molecules apart. Sounds like what they did was muck up the connection between the two simple sugars that make up sucrose (a disaccharaide or sugar made from two molecules) so you can't break them apart. As long as they are stuck together you can't burn them as fuel.There seem to be a lot of safety studies on it that came up clean, but it does have it's detractors (as anything artificial does) who seem certain something will come up because it isn't natural.K.------------------ï¿½When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fallï¿½Think of it, ALWAYS. ï¿½Mahatma GandhiMy story and what worked for me in greatly easing my IBS: http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/Forum17/HTML/000015.html I do not work for anyone who sells any IBS related products.


----------



## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

It is also called sucralose or more completely: 1,6-Dichloro-1,6-dideoxy-beta-D-fructofuranosyl-4-chloro-4-deoxy-alpha-D-galactopyranoside(for comparison table sugar's full technical name looks like this: beta-D-fructofuranosyl-alpha-D-Glucopyranoside)They took off some -OH's that are part of the regular sugar and added chlorine molecules.


> quote:Splenda is made from sucralose, which was discovered in 1976 at Queen's College, London, England. Researchers took the three hydroxyl groups found in a sugar molecule and replaced them with chlorine atoms. This stabilizes the bond between the sugar molecules and allows most of them to pass through the body without being absorbed. Simply put, the microorganisms that live in the body are unable to break down the sucralose bond, so the body only absorbs about 15% of the material. Sucralose is extremely water-soluble and is rapidly excreted from the body in urine.


For you to use table sugar in the body typically you have to break the two sugar molecules apart. Sounds like what they did was muck up the connection between the two simple sugars that make up sucrose (a disaccharaide or sugar made from two molecules) so you can't break them apart. As long as they are stuck together you can't burn them as fuel.There seem to be a lot of safety studies on it that came up clean, but it does have it's detractors (as anything artificial does) who seem certain something will come up because it isn't natural.K.------------------ï¿½When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fallï¿½Think of it, ALWAYS. ï¿½Mahatma GandhiMy story and what worked for me in greatly easing my IBS: http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/Forum17/HTML/000015.html I do not work for anyone who sells any IBS related products.


----------



## Fille (Nov 4, 2000)

kmottus....well, geez! and they market splenda like it is any different from any other sweeteners. it sounds like it should be bad...what is a chlorine molecule usually found in? i know the basics of various sugar make-ups...but chlorine is generally never found in a sugar, right? do you know of any safe, calorie free, non-artificial sweetners? thanks for your thoughtful replies....ps...i really like your gandhi quote....


----------



## Fille (Nov 4, 2000)

kmottus....well, geez! and they market splenda like it is any different from any other sweeteners. it sounds like it should be bad...what is a chlorine molecule usually found in? i know the basics of various sugar make-ups...but chlorine is generally never found in a sugar, right? do you know of any safe, calorie free, non-artificial sweetners? thanks for your thoughtful replies....ps...i really like your gandhi quote....


----------



## Fille (Nov 4, 2000)

kmottus...ps...i just wanted to also say that i really respect what you have to say, as well....you are a realist....nice and centered and objective, not subjective...good qualities!


----------



## Fille (Nov 4, 2000)

kmottus...ps...i just wanted to also say that i really respect what you have to say, as well....you are a realist....nice and centered and objective, not subjective...good qualities!


----------



## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

You do know 50% of the atoms in table salt are Chlorine?







Chlorine gas is toxic. Some chlorinated compounds are pretty toxic, some are quite non-toxic. For this molecule it sounds like it pretty much leaves you the exact same way it came in so the risk seems pretty low.As they go this one sounds fairly safe, Sacchrine is really bad if your a male rat, but isn't that bad in people (male rats have a particular enzyme that turns sacchrine into a bladder cancer causing compound). All of them are going to be un-natural in some respect. So I don't know of any 100% natural sweetener with no calories.------------------ kmottus###aol.comï¿½When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fallï¿½Think of it, ALWAYS. ï¿½Mahatma GandhiMy story and what worked for me in greatly easing my IBS: http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/Forum17/HTML/000015.html[This message has been edited by kmottus (edited 10-02-2001).]


----------



## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

You do know 50% of the atoms in table salt are Chlorine?







Chlorine gas is toxic. Some chlorinated compounds are pretty toxic, some are quite non-toxic. For this molecule it sounds like it pretty much leaves you the exact same way it came in so the risk seems pretty low.As they go this one sounds fairly safe, Sacchrine is really bad if your a male rat, but isn't that bad in people (male rats have a particular enzyme that turns sacchrine into a bladder cancer causing compound). All of them are going to be un-natural in some respect. So I don't know of any 100% natural sweetener with no calories.------------------ kmottus###aol.comï¿½When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fallï¿½Think of it, ALWAYS. ï¿½Mahatma GandhiMy story and what worked for me in greatly easing my IBS: http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/Forum17/HTML/000015.html[This message has been edited by kmottus (edited 10-02-2001).]


----------



## dianne (Jan 16, 2000)

k .. stevia is 100% natural and virtually calorie free.thanks for your postings here ...dianne


----------



## dianne (Jan 16, 2000)

k .. stevia is 100% natural and virtually calorie free.thanks for your postings here ...dianne


----------



## Guest (Oct 3, 2001)

Do you know why the manufacturers of Stevia products haven't tried or succeeded in getting FDA approval for use as a food additive? It sounds like if it were approved they would certainly be able to recoup any of the R&D costs pretty quickly. After all Sugar-Free and Natural would be great marketing buzzwords







I read that it is used in Japan as such, but This is the FDA's statement about it.And natural doesn't always equate with safe, and I don't know enough information to state that it would be any safer than Aspartame or Splenda


> quote: http://www.emperorsherbologist.com/steviawhat.htm FDA document IA# 45-06, is an import alert that says"With regard to its use in foods, Stevia is not an approved food additive nor affirmed as GRAS in the United States. Available toxicological information on Stevia is inadequate to demonstrate its safety as a food additive or to affirm its status as GRAS. However, with regard to its use in dietary supplements, dietary ingredients, including Stevia, are not subject to food additive regulations. Examples of products detained because of Stevia include teas, drinks, seafood, fruits, vegetables, and candies."	ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½	ï¿½The FDA seizes any food products with Stevia or Stevioside in them because of this ruling. Due to theseï¿½ US FDA regulations, in the USA we only sell Emperors Herbologistï¿½JAJA Steviosideï¿½ as a dietary supplement or component of a dietary supplement. The reason for this ruling is because the US FDA alleges that they have not seen studies proving stevioside as a safe food additive, but it is safe as a dietary supplement. Meaning you can safely use Emperor's Herbologist JAJA


On the plus side there are not many self-reported problems listed on the FDA site for dietary supplement side effect stuff.I'm not sure they can really claim it was proven safe as a dietary supplement as the rules generally say you can sell it until the FDA proves that it dangerous. You are supposed to do internal work to satisfy yourself that it is safe, but you don't have to really prove something is safe to sell it as a dietary supplement in the US.K.------------------Ph.D. in BiologyAuthorized Expert for IBS Self Help Group - Ask the Specialist forum


----------



## Guest (Oct 3, 2001)

Do you know why the manufacturers of Stevia products haven't tried or succeeded in getting FDA approval for use as a food additive? It sounds like if it were approved they would certainly be able to recoup any of the R&D costs pretty quickly. After all Sugar-Free and Natural would be great marketing buzzwords







I read that it is used in Japan as such, but This is the FDA's statement about it.And natural doesn't always equate with safe, and I don't know enough information to state that it would be any safer than Aspartame or Splenda


> quote: http://www.emperorsherbologist.com/steviawhat.htm FDA document IA# 45-06, is an import alert that says"With regard to its use in foods, Stevia is not an approved food additive nor affirmed as GRAS in the United States. Available toxicological information on Stevia is inadequate to demonstrate its safety as a food additive or to affirm its status as GRAS. However, with regard to its use in dietary supplements, dietary ingredients, including Stevia, are not subject to food additive regulations. Examples of products detained because of Stevia include teas, drinks, seafood, fruits, vegetables, and candies."	ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½	ï¿½The FDA seizes any food products with Stevia or Stevioside in them because of this ruling. Due to theseï¿½ US FDA regulations, in the USA we only sell Emperors Herbologistï¿½JAJA Steviosideï¿½ as a dietary supplement or component of a dietary supplement. The reason for this ruling is because the US FDA alleges that they have not seen studies proving stevioside as a safe food additive, but it is safe as a dietary supplement. Meaning you can safely use Emperor's Herbologist JAJA


On the plus side there are not many self-reported problems listed on the FDA site for dietary supplement side effect stuff.I'm not sure they can really claim it was proven safe as a dietary supplement as the rules generally say you can sell it until the FDA proves that it dangerous. You are supposed to do internal work to satisfy yourself that it is safe, but you don't have to really prove something is safe to sell it as a dietary supplement in the US.K.------------------Ph.D. in BiologyAuthorized Expert for IBS Self Help Group - Ask the Specialist forum


----------



## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Did a perusal through Medline to see what I could find that might explain the reluctance of the FDA to let it be used as a food additive since it is widely used in Japan and Brazil.My guess is that some of the stevia molecules are biologically active, and that this is where the concern lies. If it is doing something in the body than you need to be sure it isn't doing something potentially damaging.They may lower blood pressure and effect glucose tolerance and one of the metabolites of stevioside, steviol has come up positive in a few mutagenic assays, but seems to be in a low probability of causing cancer in humans based on what I know of the assays it twigged and the assays that it was non-mutagenic in. The most concerning one that I saw was a long-term feeding study in male rats where it lowered their fertility, so I'd tend to avoid it if I were a man trying to make a baby. I think since it seems to have some biological activity they have to show that those activities are not harmful to people who may be at risk for low blood pressure or other things before it can be used as a food additive.------------------ kmottus###aol.comï¿½When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fallï¿½Think of it, ALWAYS. ï¿½Mahatma GandhiMy story and what worked for me in greatly easing my IBS: http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/Forum17/HTML/000015.html[This message has been edited by kmottus (edited 10-03-2001).]


----------



## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Did a perusal through Medline to see what I could find that might explain the reluctance of the FDA to let it be used as a food additive since it is widely used in Japan and Brazil.My guess is that some of the stevia molecules are biologically active, and that this is where the concern lies. If it is doing something in the body than you need to be sure it isn't doing something potentially damaging.They may lower blood pressure and effect glucose tolerance and one of the metabolites of stevioside, steviol has come up positive in a few mutagenic assays, but seems to be in a low probability of causing cancer in humans based on what I know of the assays it twigged and the assays that it was non-mutagenic in. The most concerning one that I saw was a long-term feeding study in male rats where it lowered their fertility, so I'd tend to avoid it if I were a man trying to make a baby. I think since it seems to have some biological activity they have to show that those activities are not harmful to people who may be at risk for low blood pressure or other things before it can be used as a food additive.------------------ kmottus###aol.comï¿½When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fallï¿½Think of it, ALWAYS. ï¿½Mahatma GandhiMy story and what worked for me in greatly easing my IBS: http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/Forum17/HTML/000015.html[This message has been edited by kmottus (edited 10-03-2001).]


----------



## jenjen (Nov 30, 2000)

i'm kinda skipping over the heated stuff in the middle here -in answer to your question, lisa, i have no idea. Kmottus stated that sugar is different from aspartame, so you could guess that your response to it may be different. with IBS, who knows?! i guess you'll have to monitor your body's reaction and take it from there.fwiw, aspartame bothers my ibs. i dont mind staying away from it anyway, even if it means having less of something because it has more calories. jj


----------



## jenjen (Nov 30, 2000)

i'm kinda skipping over the heated stuff in the middle here -in answer to your question, lisa, i have no idea. Kmottus stated that sugar is different from aspartame, so you could guess that your response to it may be different. with IBS, who knows?! i guess you'll have to monitor your body's reaction and take it from there.fwiw, aspartame bothers my ibs. i dont mind staying away from it anyway, even if it means having less of something because it has more calories. jj


----------



## Fille (Nov 4, 2000)

by the way...yeah..i forgot .... chloride and sodium = table salt! thanks for the info. still doesnt sound so healthy.


----------



## Fille (Nov 4, 2000)

by the way...yeah..i forgot .... chloride and sodium = table salt! thanks for the info. still doesnt sound so healthy.


----------



## wyze88 (Jun 13, 2000)

Hi there Dr k ...stevia was abused due to the politics of getting aspartame in to the US market and keeping it there in spite of growing complaints about it. Originally the FDA turned it ( aspartame) down due its own negative scientific evidence and was never going to approve it; I think it goes that FDA directors changed, ( Donald Rumsfeld is the man responsible I think, because he was deeply associated with Searle who originally owned it before Monsanto), and the new Director in his first few weeks over-rode the best advice from within the FDA and aspartame was approved.The letters from the FDA specialists who resigned in protest are on the net somewhere -- I'll try to find if you want.Stevia, little quiet cheap sweet plant that it is, never ever had a chance in corporate USA. My heavens, you can grow it in your own backyard -- where's the dollars then ?Check the url ... the whole story of aspartame is there ... and the USA is the only country to place any restriction on stevia. And it still has, and will remain like that while aspartame makes the billions it does -- makes people fatter while they drink it to diet !!! Perfect product for the moneymakers; hell for the poor consumer. [This message has been edited by wyze88 (edited 10-03-2001).]


----------



## wyze88 (Jun 13, 2000)

Hi there Dr k ...stevia was abused due to the politics of getting aspartame in to the US market and keeping it there in spite of growing complaints about it. Originally the FDA turned it ( aspartame) down due its own negative scientific evidence and was never going to approve it; I think it goes that FDA directors changed, ( Donald Rumsfeld is the man responsible I think, because he was deeply associated with Searle who originally owned it before Monsanto), and the new Director in his first few weeks over-rode the best advice from within the FDA and aspartame was approved.The letters from the FDA specialists who resigned in protest are on the net somewhere -- I'll try to find if you want.Stevia, little quiet cheap sweet plant that it is, never ever had a chance in corporate USA. My heavens, you can grow it in your own backyard -- where's the dollars then ?Check the url ... the whole story of aspartame is there ... and the USA is the only country to place any restriction on stevia. And it still has, and will remain like that while aspartame makes the billions it does -- makes people fatter while they drink it to diet !!! Perfect product for the moneymakers; hell for the poor consumer. [This message has been edited by wyze88 (edited 10-03-2001).]


----------



## wyze88 (Jun 13, 2000)

forgot the url. sorry. here it is http://www.dorway.com/enclosur.html


----------



## wyze88 (Jun 13, 2000)

forgot the url. sorry. here it is http://www.dorway.com/enclosur.html


----------



## Julia37 (May 9, 2001)

Well, since I can't have sugars I've tried both aspartame and stevia, and aspartame is worse.If I eat it once it has no noticeable affect. However, if I eat it more than 3 days in a row it makes me nauseous.I've eaten stevia every day for more than a week with no ill effect I can detect. I had a flare-up Monday, I'm almost sure it was from stress. I'm going to keep monitoring my reaction(if any) to stevia to be sure.I tend to get addicted to sweet tastes - first it was only when I needed comfort food, now it's every day. Hopefully no ill effect.







It could be I need more comfort food now - I haven't even been able to find temp work, and I had nightmares Sunday night. I've never had this much trouble finding work before.







Could you post the url with the letters from resigned FDA officials? I'd like to see those.Thanks


----------



## Julia37 (May 9, 2001)

Well, since I can't have sugars I've tried both aspartame and stevia, and aspartame is worse.If I eat it once it has no noticeable affect. However, if I eat it more than 3 days in a row it makes me nauseous.I've eaten stevia every day for more than a week with no ill effect I can detect. I had a flare-up Monday, I'm almost sure it was from stress. I'm going to keep monitoring my reaction(if any) to stevia to be sure.I tend to get addicted to sweet tastes - first it was only when I needed comfort food, now it's every day. Hopefully no ill effect.







It could be I need more comfort food now - I haven't even been able to find temp work, and I had nightmares Sunday night. I've never had this much trouble finding work before.







Could you post the url with the letters from resigned FDA officials? I'd like to see those.Thanks


----------



## wyze88 (Jun 13, 2000)

julia .. still looking for you and maybe you want to read this in the meantime. great job with the stevia.Analysis Shows Nearly 100% of Independent Research Finds Problems With AspartameOctober 17, 1996An analysis of peer reviewed medical literature using MEDLINE and other databases was conducted by Ralph G. Walton, MD, Chairman, The Center for Behavioral Medicine, Professor of Clinical Psychiatry, Northeastern Ohio Universities College of Medicine. Dr. Walton analyzed 164 studies which were felt to have relevance to human safety questions. Of those studies, 74 studies had aspartame industry-related sponsorship and 90 were funded without any industry money.Of the 90 non-industry-sponsored studies, 83 (92%) identified one or more problems with aspartame. Of the 7 studies which did not find a problems, 6 of those studies were conducted by the FDA. Given that a number of FDA officials went to work for the aspartame industry immediately following approval (including the former FDA Commissioner), many consider these studies to be equivalent to industry-sponsored research.Of the 74 aspartame industry-sponsored studies, all 74 (100%) claimed that no problems were found with aspartame. This is reminiscent of tobacco industry research where it is primarily the tobacco research which never finds problems with the product, but nearly all of the independent studies do find problems.The 74 aspartame industry-sponsored studies are those which one inveriably sees cited in PR/news reports and reported by organizations funded by Monsanto/Benevia/NutraSweet (e.g., IFIC, ADA). These studies have severe design deficiencies which help to guarantee the "desired" outcomes. These design deficiencies may not be apparent to the inexperienced scientist. Healthcare practitioners and scientists should print out the all of the documents on the Monsanto/NutraSweet Scientific Abuse web page, the Scientific FAQs web page and the Aspartame Toxicity Reaction Report Samples. Please refer scientific questions to mgold###holisticmed.com.Return to: Aspartame ( NutraSweet ) Toxicity Information Center Main Page.


----------



## wyze88 (Jun 13, 2000)

julia .. still looking for you and maybe you want to read this in the meantime. great job with the stevia.Analysis Shows Nearly 100% of Independent Research Finds Problems With AspartameOctober 17, 1996An analysis of peer reviewed medical literature using MEDLINE and other databases was conducted by Ralph G. Walton, MD, Chairman, The Center for Behavioral Medicine, Professor of Clinical Psychiatry, Northeastern Ohio Universities College of Medicine. Dr. Walton analyzed 164 studies which were felt to have relevance to human safety questions. Of those studies, 74 studies had aspartame industry-related sponsorship and 90 were funded without any industry money.Of the 90 non-industry-sponsored studies, 83 (92%) identified one or more problems with aspartame. Of the 7 studies which did not find a problems, 6 of those studies were conducted by the FDA. Given that a number of FDA officials went to work for the aspartame industry immediately following approval (including the former FDA Commissioner), many consider these studies to be equivalent to industry-sponsored research.Of the 74 aspartame industry-sponsored studies, all 74 (100%) claimed that no problems were found with aspartame. This is reminiscent of tobacco industry research where it is primarily the tobacco research which never finds problems with the product, but nearly all of the independent studies do find problems.The 74 aspartame industry-sponsored studies are those which one inveriably sees cited in PR/news reports and reported by organizations funded by Monsanto/Benevia/NutraSweet (e.g., IFIC, ADA). These studies have severe design deficiencies which help to guarantee the "desired" outcomes. These design deficiencies may not be apparent to the inexperienced scientist. Healthcare practitioners and scientists should print out the all of the documents on the Monsanto/NutraSweet Scientific Abuse web page, the Scientific FAQs web page and the Aspartame Toxicity Reaction Report Samples. Please refer scientific questions to mgold###holisticmed.com.Return to: Aspartame ( NutraSweet ) Toxicity Information Center Main Page.


----------



## wyze88 (Jun 13, 2000)

This is very long, but what a story of corruption and the slow poisoning of both children and adults.If you can make your way thru it, probably you will never touch aspartame ever again in any thing at any time. http://www.holisticmed.com/aspartame/history.faq


----------



## wyze88 (Jun 13, 2000)

This is very long, but what a story of corruption and the slow poisoning of both children and adults.If you can make your way thru it, probably you will never touch aspartame ever again in any thing at any time. http://www.holisticmed.com/aspartame/history.faq


----------



## wyze88 (Jun 13, 2000)

but here's some good news on a whole bunch of possible sweeteners that should not harm you, provided they are not personal triggers. http://www.holisticmed.com/sweet/sweet.txt


----------



## wyze88 (Jun 13, 2000)

but here's some good news on a whole bunch of possible sweeteners that should not harm you, provided they are not personal triggers. http://www.holisticmed.com/sweet/sweet.txt


----------



## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:Originally the FDA turned it ( aspartame) down due its own negative scientific evidence and was never going to approve it


Sounds like







Aspartame is *the* safest food additive out there. I think all the FDA ever got after it came out were a few people who complained of headaches. And I don't believe this was ever experimentally verified.


> quote:An analysis of peer reviewed medical literature using MEDLINE and other databases was conducted by Ralph G. Walton,


Funny but all I can find iswww4.infotrieve.com/newmedline/detail.asp?NameID=7948460%20&Session=&searchQuery=walton+AND+aspartame&count=4Basically, it's a small study on a group of depressed patients. He found they appear to be "sensitive" to the effects of aspartame. ------------------I am not a doctor, nor do I work for profit in the medical/pharmacological field, but I have read scientific and medical texts, and have access to numerous sources of medical information that are not readily available to others. One should always consult a medical professional regarding advice received.


----------



## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:Originally the FDA turned it ( aspartame) down due its own negative scientific evidence and was never going to approve it


Sounds like







Aspartame is *the* safest food additive out there. I think all the FDA ever got after it came out were a few people who complained of headaches. And I don't believe this was ever experimentally verified.


> quote:An analysis of peer reviewed medical literature using MEDLINE and other databases was conducted by Ralph G. Walton,


Funny but all I can find iswww4.infotrieve.com/newmedline/detail.asp?NameID=7948460%20&Session=&searchQuery=walton+AND+aspartame&count=4Basically, it's a small study on a group of depressed patients. He found they appear to be "sensitive" to the effects of aspartame. ------------------I am not a doctor, nor do I work for profit in the medical/pharmacological field, but I have read scientific and medical texts, and have access to numerous sources of medical information that are not readily available to others. One should always consult a medical professional regarding advice received.


----------



## wyze88 (Jun 13, 2000)

well of course it would sound like rubbish to you flux. you didn't even read the url you posted yourself.try this one for more "rubbish" on the poison. http://www.holisticmed.com/aspartame/history.faq


----------



## wyze88 (Jun 13, 2000)

well of course it would sound like rubbish to you flux. you didn't even read the url you posted yourself.try this one for more "rubbish" on the poison. http://www.holisticmed.com/aspartame/history.faq


----------



## friski (Aug 27, 2001)

i eat yogurt with aspartame everyday at work....in fact i'm eating it right now


----------



## friski (Aug 27, 2001)

i eat yogurt with aspartame everyday at work....in fact i'm eating it right now


----------



## wyze88 (Jun 13, 2000)

absolutely friski; and millions of people still smoke cigarettes. The glorious freedom of individual choice -- we are so fortunate.But sadly that doesn't mean we are told the truth all the time either.


----------



## wyze88 (Jun 13, 2000)

absolutely friski; and millions of people still smoke cigarettes. The glorious freedom of individual choice -- we are so fortunate.But sadly that doesn't mean we are told the truth all the time either.


----------



## Julia37 (May 9, 2001)

Friski, if you can handle sugar instead, that would be healthier than aspartame every day. Or you could buy plain yogurt and mix it yourself with fruit or other sweeteners.I don't have time to read all the links posted, but the discovery story of aspartame is very similar to the discovery story of saccharin, which I looked up last week. http://www.finchcms.edu/biochem/walters/sw...l#anchor6138866 The information on the dorway site is also similar to the chemical analysis I saw in 1997, which said aspartame causes seizures in children. This one also said it increases the brain chemical that makes people angry, and decreases the chemical that makes people calm. Because of this and the fact it makes me nauseous within 3 days, I don't think it's healthy to eat aspartame frequently. I hope eating it occasionally is ok, because with my food sensitivities I'm sometimes in a situation where my only source of caffeine is diet coke. I'll drink caffeinated tea instead if I can get it.


----------



## Julia37 (May 9, 2001)

Friski, if you can handle sugar instead, that would be healthier than aspartame every day. Or you could buy plain yogurt and mix it yourself with fruit or other sweeteners.I don't have time to read all the links posted, but the discovery story of aspartame is very similar to the discovery story of saccharin, which I looked up last week. http://www.finchcms.edu/biochem/walters/sw...l#anchor6138866 The information on the dorway site is also similar to the chemical analysis I saw in 1997, which said aspartame causes seizures in children. This one also said it increases the brain chemical that makes people angry, and decreases the chemical that makes people calm. Because of this and the fact it makes me nauseous within 3 days, I don't think it's healthy to eat aspartame frequently. I hope eating it occasionally is ok, because with my food sensitivities I'm sometimes in a situation where my only source of caffeine is diet coke. I'll drink caffeinated tea instead if I can get it.


----------



## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:absolutely friski; and millions of people still smoke cigarettes.


But we *know* aspartame is *not* harmful.------------------I am not a doctor, nor do I work for profit in the medical/pharmacological field, but I have read scientific and medical texts, and have access to numerous sources of medical information that are not readily available to others. One should always consult a medical professional regarding advice received.


----------



## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:absolutely friski; and millions of people still smoke cigarettes.


But we *know* aspartame is *not* harmful.------------------I am not a doctor, nor do I work for profit in the medical/pharmacological field, but I have read scientific and medical texts, and have access to numerous sources of medical information that are not readily available to others. One should always consult a medical professional regarding advice received.


----------

