# Something to think about



## Lauralee (Jan 4, 2002)

Everyone is born with and/or develops a personality, an inherent way of being and reacting to the world around them. The most popular being the "Type A" personality that we have all no doubt heard about. My question is, if a person is pre-programmed to have a certain personality type, how possible is it to change that type? For example, if one is a highly sensitive individual, is it possible to become less sensitive in the true sense or would the person be just masking the inborn personality? To put it more simply, can you actually change yourself at the deepest levels, totally eradicating the inborn personality or are any changes you make just masking the way you truly are?


----------



## Lauralee (Jan 4, 2002)

Maybe a better choice of words would have been "temprament" rather than "personality". Still the same question.


----------



## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

laura, the simple answer with some work and effort, a person can change. Your question is pretty deep though, some aspects of are beings are written into our gentic codes and are a part of us.Hope that helps some at least and I would be happy to dicuss this further with you.


----------



## Lauralee (Jan 4, 2002)

So, which aspects are written into our genetic code and cannot be changed? And, how do you know if a change has truly taken place or if it has just been temporarily hidden? (Yes, I know this is deep, but also very interesting, and I am willing to discuss as long as you are, Eric!







)


----------



## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Well first Laura, I am not an expert on anything, I just know alot about IBS.







One thing here is what is the aspect your trying to change. Like I said this is very deep and goes off in many directions, also our up bringing plays a huge role in being "Us."I will probably learn on this while you do.







This is a teachers page on gentics and its to teach kids, but I don't know about you but that's the level on would need to start on with some of this. LOLThis has some good info for you to start. I know its not totally what your after yet and you won't quite your day job to become a geneticist, but I will find some more and dicuss it and we can learn together on it. This gives some basics. http://school.discovery.com/lessonplans/programs/genetics/


----------



## Lauralee (Jan 4, 2002)

Sounds good to me!


----------



## Lauralee (Jan 4, 2002)

Another thing to think about...nature vs. nurture. I would assume that the things we aquire via nurture would be receptive to change, real change, not just surface appearance change. But, are the things we aquire from nature there with us until the end? Or do we as humans possess the ability to change what nature gave us? For example, if you are born high-strung, will you always be high strung? I know we can learn the skills to tone down the high-strungedness (couldn't think of a better word







) but will it ever truly go away? If you are born shy, will you always be shy? Learning how to deal with and adapt to a trait is certainly possible, but as soon as you stop trying, the trait will come back. What would it take to totally obliterate the trait (the shyness, the high-strung tendencies)? Is changing what we aquire by nurture just a matter of changing our perceptions? Can we learn a higher truth that replaces the older false beliefs? For example, if we are raised to fear everything and be overly cautious, can we forget the fear we grew up with just by realizing the truth, that the world is not as dangerous as we may think? Then, is the fear TRULY gone, or has it just been pushed to the back of our minds, waiting to resurface as soon as we let down our guard? In other words, is it the same as when we change what we get by nature? Does it just get covered up or is it truly gone?I had never really thought about a human's capacity to change before. Are we so set in our ways that we cannot change? Or is it better to stay the way we are, faults and all, and just do the best we can with what we've got?Eric, this is just more "food for thought", if you will. What do you think?If anyone else would like to get in on this discussion, please feel free. What do you all think?


----------



## BQ (May 22, 2000)

Laura, Once I learn something, I can't not know it. Make sense? I start from a certain point; I learn something new. That new information changes how I think. I can go back to "old" thinking, but I _know_ different now. It is a choice. Do I continue to think like I used to? Or do I take the new information and use it to change my thinking? I think it is largely a choice for me.BQ


----------



## Nikki (Jul 11, 2000)

I know silly little things like weather you can roll your tongue is genetic. I can't do it!Er...I will have to ponder some more before i say anything else. My brain isn't quite working properly.Do you think that skills like being good at maths, or at art or creative things is genetic? Is being left or right handed? Hmmm...BQ-I know what you mean. Once i have learnt something i think in that new way and find it difficult to think in the old way.When i have my harmony lessons and we learn something new and more complicated i forget or can't do the easier stuff we learnt previously. That is just me being forgetful i think though


----------



## Lauralee (Jan 4, 2002)

BQ, when you learn something new, you know differently now, yes. But, you did say that you CAN go back to the old way of thinking. That means it does require effort to stay with the new way and a change has not truly taken place, just your perception of things and the way you react to them. Agree? So, do you think that you can learn something new and totally forget the old way so you can never go back to it?







Spliff, I do think that creativity and being good at math and stuff is genetic. I can learn math, but it is VERY hard for me, whereas, it is very easy for other people. I am good at English and my husband isn't. It drives him crazy when I finish his crossword puzzles!!







Another thought...when a person gets drunk, their personality changes. They lose all inhibitions. Is the personality that emerges without the inhibitions the TRUE personality that is you without all of the #### life has piled upon you? Where did the inhibitions come from in the first place? Are they genetic or did we aquire them as we interacted with others and were hurt by them?


----------



## BQ (May 22, 2000)

Laura, Usually the new information is helpful and that makes trying to think the "old" way very difficult for me. I find it very uncomfortable if I slip into old thinking. I usually *can't* (sorry, edited this typo) 'stay' there in old thinking very long. The new takes over within me and I assimilate it because it makes me feel better.Sometimes when I learn something that is negative, I try to keep to the old thinking more. However, I have yet been able to successfully keep up the old thinking for very long.Intoxication? Inhibitions? I have witnessed people drunk that become absolutley nasty and others who become a regular riot. I do not think that the ones who become nasty are Nasty people cloaked in their inhibitions by day to make them conform to societal standards. Their nastiness while drunk, may only be feelings they have kept locked up and not alowed themselves to feel. The same goes for those that become stand up comedians, they just feel more relaxed to express that emotion. The manisfestations of drunk behavior in each individual are not necessarily, in my view, their "personalities"; rather more their emotions and their expression of those emotions that person happens to be feeling at that time. This is a discussion that may not have answers from science yet. Nature vs Nurture is an age old debate. There are genetic markers that have been found for certain illnesses. But I believe that a person is completely empowered to change whatever they desire to change about themselves. For instance, I was really challenged by mathematics as a student. I was also intimdated by it for a long time.......... until I discovered that I could learn it and be very good at it. But I could easily have remained intimdated by it and chosen not to try to learn it in a new way. But I chose to try and try again. Now I have very little fear of things mathematical. Whereas I used to run from it. How did this happen? Well, at least two ways. 1)Someone took the time and patience to try to teach me in a way that they thought I would understand, which was different than the way I was taught in school.2) I decided that I could learn it if I really wanted to and therefore put the effort into trying to learn it. I chose not to be fearful. I was successful.However, it is not a "natural" strength for me, it is a "learned" strength. But still one I chose to improve. I kid about being nervous when son comes home with fractions for homework, but actually, I feel very confident to help him.That is why I think it is largely a choice for me.I think we are born with the basics and can learn the upgrades, so to speak.Certain physical attributes I can do nothing about, unless I consider plastic surgery, lol. There are illnesses that 'run' in my family. Can't do a thing about that. I can adapt to those physical challenges. But personality is a nebulous term to me. I like to speak of it as just "me" and I figure I am under construction til the day I die.BQ


----------



## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

I am just waking up and this is to deep for me at the moment, but good posts so far.







How were raised and the things we learn have a big influence on all this for sure. I will try to jump in later when I can think more clearly on this.Right now I need to alter my being with some java.


----------



## Nikki (Jul 11, 2000)

I can understand what you are saying about personalities changing when you are drunk. When my Dad is not drunk he is a really nice person and most likely you would all get on with him. But once he has a few drinks he is a _completely_ different person, aggressive, angry. Itï¿½s frightening the amount someone can change. I believe this is related to his up bringing (he was adopted).







Myself-I get either all giggly when had a few or I get really emotional and end up getting depressed and crying (I try not to drink when Iï¿½m upset!) If before I was nervous or inhibited I become louder (LOL-Could it be possible).







I think inhibitions could come from the *social* norms that we are supposed to conform to. We are supposed to act properly, not shout, not fight, and not burp in public







(Its just not lady like). Just like in England people think a lady should not drink pints!







So, the reason we don't always act like the way we do when we are slightly drunk is because we know that it is not socially acceptable. Also, one of the reasons we sometimes act drunk while in a group of people that are drunk is because we like to conform to the majority.









> quote:Conformity involves the changing of one's attitudes, opinions, or behaviours to match the attitudes, opinions, or behaviours of other people. This pressure to act like other people, sometimes despite our true feelings and desires, is a common everyday occurrence. This is do to the implied and spoken rules of the situation. These "norms" tell us what we should or ought to be thinking, feeling, or doing if we want to fit in with a particular group. Most people conform to norms without much thinking about it. For example, most people tip in restaurants, raise their hand when wishing to speak in a group setting, or sit down when they eat. While none of these incidences involve formal rules, most people comply with them. However, there are certain times when people are more or less likely to conform to the existing norms. Several factors affect the degree to which conformity will occur. Group cohesiveness (the degree to which we are strongly attracted to a group and desire to maintain membership in it) increases the occurrence of conformity. For example, countless research studies exist which display the degree of conformity in sororities and fraternities. In a like manner, the number of persons exerting pressure increases the amount of conformity. This is true only to a certain point. A group size of about three to four people will exert pressure to conform. However, a larger group size does not increase the likelihood of conformity. Finally, having an ally -- someone who disagrees with the majority-- results in much less conformity than when no social support exists for the target of conformity.


Spliff







Edited a *3rd* time to say: Eric-You've only just got up??? Its 6.30pm here!


----------



## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Generally I tend to agree with the "nature" more difficult to change "nurture" may be (but not always) easier to change.AND most things even when there is a genetic predisposition there is a big nuture component to how it is expressed.We each seem to be born with certain temperments and some things like tendancy to be anxious is one of them.Now nurture comes into play in that. Two people may have the same tendancy, but based on how they were raised they may end up in quite different places. One may come from a background that would make anyone anxious and be quite debilitated while the other who was raised with a background that helped him/her understand their anxiety and gave them good coping skills may not really have any major problems with it.Very few things are solely nature or solely nurture.One book you may be interested in is "emotional intelligence" which deals with a lot of these things. How do you affect change in this area.I think people can change their temperment (and there are plenty of 60 year old calm, cool, and collected types that were quite anxious, tempermental, angry, etc when they were younger).If you learn to change how you react to your own emotional state (you can't IMO necesarily keep from having certain emotional states) you can effect some pretty big changes in behavior and how life effects you. So if you learn how to relax when you notice that you are starting to get anxious, for example, you may appear to have a pretty big change of temperment. K.


----------



## RitaLucy (May 3, 2000)

Well I am not an expert by any means in this area but what I tend to believe is....we have certain traits that are of course genetic...those we cannot change (although with modern science -- maybe we can one day soon -- like whether or not we have certain genes for certain diseases/illnesses). I think personality is genetic and also environmental. More learned that genetic. Behaviors can be changed -- i.e. you can teach an old dog new tricks!







If you know you are a certain way...whether it be genetic or just a learned behavior you can with work change the behavior that you longer want and replace it with behaviors that you do want. I don't believe though that you can change the behaviors without first becoming aware of them and that awareness is the major aspect of change. How does one become aware that say they are type A. Sometimes it takes a major crisis to step back and say hey I need to do something about this situation I am in. Alter the lifestyle. Certain expressions, thought processes, the way a person stands or walks etc. I think are genetic. I look at my daughter who looks very much like my mother and it is not really her features but more her actions and she never knew my mom.. Anyway, I guess what I am trying to say is that I don't think it really matters whether your personality is genetic or a learned personality you can with work change behaviors that you no longer want to adhere to. People do it everyday. Once you become aware of what it is then you can work on changing it. I don't believe you are stuck with personality/tempermants just because they are genetic. They might be your tendency but not stuck with them.Geez...I hope I made any sense at all!


----------



## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Just fyi, and I am almost done reading this, but its good. Hope it helps this some.Nature vs Nurture Revisited http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/genome/debate.html


----------



## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Actually, I should have posted the whole link just for the info. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/genome/heredity.html


----------



## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Just fyi, but this on some of how all this applies to IBS. http://www.med.unc.edu/medicine/fgidc/biopsychosocial.htm


----------



## BQ (May 22, 2000)

Good Article. I got: that they _still_ don't know all they need to answer the age old question and that Dr. Davies looks way too young to know all this stuff.







lolThanks, it stated the debate clearly and affirmed that loads more research needs to be done.BQ


----------



## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Yes, they need to learn quite a bit more, however they have learned some important things.You can't change your genetic make up, although they maybe able to alter it in the future for sure, but you can change a lot of behavioral aspects that genetics influence and that can go a long way.


----------



## BQ (May 22, 2000)

I can just see in the future, "Oh Hi Eric! Hey have you been altered yet???" LOLHey ya never know. Hope I live to see it.







BQ


----------



## Lauralee (Jan 4, 2002)

Ok, I think we have determined that certain characteristics can be changed by learning a new behavior to replace the undesirable one (good news for most of us!!







). But, do we ever come to a point where we are our TRUE selves? Would we recognize our true self if it was staring us in the face? Have we been so muddled with what life and other people throw at us, with false perceptions of ourselves and the world, that we are incapable of knowing who our true self really is? Think about the person you were when you were just a toddler or preschooler, before life really got its hands on you. What were you like then? Shy? Happy? Outgoing? Serious? Is that your true personality? Or, is your true personality fluid and capable of change over time, whereas the authentic you of 10 years ago is radically different from the authentic you of today? Life has a way of beating people down. Interaction with other people can beat people down. What steps do we need to take to dig through the #### and get back to the person we were meant to be and can there be more than one authentic you throughout the course of your life, each as deeply and truly you as the last?I liked what you said, Eric, that you can change a lot of behavioral aspects that genetics influence. I think that gets to the heart of this whole discussion. We are not slaves to our biology, we do possess the power to change. YeeHaw!


----------



## BQ (May 22, 2000)

I'm thinking I definitely don't wanna go back in any way. I think of myself as continually evolving, so forward is the direction I want to go to foster more evolvement. My essence is changing constantly. Yes life can beat us down, but via getting back up, I learn alot and that adds to me. There is no "real me". I was meant to be who I am to be, today. Tomorrow I will be be different. But tomorrow I will be who I am meant to be too. Who determines what is "meant" anyway, but us? It seems to me that we are always moving and changing. And that is the point of life to me. We are a canvas, we are given the tools to create the painting and it is a lifetime effort to create the painting. Just my opinion.BQ


----------



## Lauralee (Jan 4, 2002)

Good answer, BQ!!! We can decide who we want to be and learn and grow to become that person. I guess it's all in your attitude? If you think you cannot change, that you are held down by your genetics, you will be incapable of change? But, if you believe you can be who and what you want to be, you are capable of breaking any genetic ties and becoming whatever you create? Yes?


----------



## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Laura, for the most part yes, attitude, learning and such can go a very long way to the person you want to be. Change is also good for a person and keeps life from being boring. Although we fight it as its not a comfortable thing sometimes. People like to be comfortable. I am a chef. Genetics are the ingredients. But how you mix and work with the ingredients makes the dish.







Okay I will probably get slammed for this, but I am saying it more jokingly then anything and not for an arguement.Look at our President, genetically well questionable, but he became the President. LOLOf course money doesn't hurt in all this sometimes.


----------



## Lauralee (Jan 4, 2002)

I don't have any money, so I guess I'll have to get by on my good looks and charm!


----------



## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

lauralee, there is a qoute here I think applies from the movie with Jimmy Stewart called "Harvey", if you have never seen it I recommend it highly.In it he said something like " In this life you can be oh so smart or oh so pleasant, I was smart for the first thrity five years, but I recommend peasant, you can qoute me on that."All in the attitude.We can choose everyday to learn and be better. It takes all our lifes I believe and we have faults and make mistakes and we learn from them. If your stagnant there maybe no change or there maybe change by decline even. From nothing comes nothing.







and of course Carpe Diem.


----------



## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Here is something else on this of interest.The Secrets of Aging Well http://my.webmd.com/content/article/1689.52047


----------



## Nikki (Jul 11, 2000)

Eric


> quote:Look at our President, genetically well questionable, but he became the President. LOLOf course money doesn't hurt in all this sometimes.


LMAO!


----------



## Lauralee (Jan 4, 2002)

Eric,I really liked that last link!Another question...Why are people so resistant to change, even positive change, and what can be done to eliminate that resistance? It seems that even knowing the consequences of not changing isn't enough to get the change started. What push is needed? Does it all have to do with fear of change? How do you eliminate that fear?


----------



## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Fear of the unknown is a pretty common fear and change pretty much means you are wandering into "unknown" territory even when you cognitively know that the change is for the best.Generally I tend to see people making big changes in two sorts of situations either A) can't tolerate where we are any more--the rock bottom hitting or







where we want to be is calling strong enough that we are willing to risk it and move forward.Often people are afraid of "being wrong" even when they don't like something it can be hard to let go of because then you might be wrong about something. Like if I can stop being shy than I was wrong about all the reasons why I was shy so instead of being wrong I would rather stay shy.It is natural to get attached to our view of the world and sometimes we really need to be prodded pretty hard to let go of that and try something else. Quite often once a person has a major change either from bottoming out or wanting X bad enough they can learn to let go of the fear of changing. The "oh that wasn't nearly as bad as I feared it would be, maybe I'll do it again" kind of a response.And everyone has a different comfort zone. Some people crave/need massive changes or big risky things all the time because that is what they became comfortable with. I mean Madonna can't have the same external apperance for two albums straight (heck even two singles off the same album straight) so it seems she is more comfortable with reinventing herself than staying in a rut.K.K.


----------



## LML (Jul 17, 2001)

LauraLeeGreat discussion. Thanks for starting it. As to your last question: <<Why are people so resistant to change, even positive change, and what can be done to eliminate that resistance? >> I think it has a bit to do with feeling comfortable with what's familar. Don't you know people who are in some kind of a bad situation, or have a bad habit they don't like but don't seem to make any effort to change? Some people just get comfortable with whatever's familar, and unless there's a lot of pressure and support to change, they just don't want to make the effort. Maybe this is where a genetic disposition to just accept status quo or to be interested in and willing to make the effort to change comes in? I think anyone can really change some parts of their personality, but it only comes with a real committment and a lot of hard work.


----------



## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Just FYI http://www.refresher.com/!fearofchange.html I know nothing about cbe, but the articles is good and explains some of fear and change well.


----------



## Nikki (Jul 11, 2000)

I think people are resistant to change becuase it is just something different to what we are used to. I think its like something Mike once said about mind armies and set backs.You mind doesn't want to change because it is something that you have learned.


> quote: _The subconscious does not want change, because the IBS is familiar. It is part of the sufferers life. No matter how bad the pain, or the bloating or the inconvenience, you have a history of surviving it, and you have. _ _So while it is uncomfortable, its not life_ _threatening, so why should the subconscious want to change?_ _The subconscious does not like change, and will resist it!! _ * The subconscious does not like change, and will resist it!!  *


----------

