# Midwest Centre Anxiety Program vs. Mike's Tapes



## Linda C (Aug 29, 2001)

Hi Everyone,I'm new here. I am 30 yrs old and have had IBS-D for 15 years. Like many of you, I have developed a great deal of anxiety - mostly related to health/symptoms. I recently ordered Lucinda Bassett's "Attacking Anxiety and Depression" program (from Midwest Centre for Stress and Anxiety) - a very expensive but seemingly thorough audio program for overcoming anxiety. I have been reading a bit about Mike's Hypno program here and I'm intrigued. Does anyone have experience with the Midwest Centre program and, if so, can you offer any sort of comparison between the effectiveness of the two programs? I have never tried hypnotherapy. The Midwest program is CBT-based. Thanks.


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Mike tapes are specifically for IBS and are gut specific hypnotherapy processes for all symptoms of IBS. Anxiety reduction is a side effect of them really, but they are more for IBS symptoms.www.ibsaudioprogram.comLucinda's tapes are for anxiety. I have not done them however, but know about them.Az mom has done both so you know.


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

ps linda here are some comments from people who have done Mike's tapes. http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...c;f=11;t=000017


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## chrisgeorge (Feb 28, 2003)

Linda C,You're going to hate hearing this, only because I know the Midwest Center programme is so expensive. But I picked up the handbooks and the 16 tapes for ...$5.Ouch!The Midwest programme is a classic case of identifying your anxiety sources, self-evaluation and positive dialogue. Its a good course, but you have to do the exercises. But it is specific and thorough, and offers solutions for your specific problems.The IBS tapes that are offered do address stress, tension, anxiety issues, however they are "generic" and can't be fine tuned to YOUR problems.I would suggest completing the work books from the Midwest center, identifying your issues, then, armed with that information, perhaps book yourself with a hypnotherapist for a session or two. But make sure you lay out everything you have found from your exercises that are an issue for you to your hypnotherapist. I would also suggest when booking, ask if they offer a free consultation. If they do, (and most provide the free service), explain the program and see if the hypnotherapist will work along with you on those guidelines. If they say no, I'd look for another hypnotherapist until you find one that will.Hope this helps.ChrisP.S.other than my find, can I enquire what the cost was for you on the tapes/handbook.


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## trbell (Nov 1, 2000)

There should be a lot of anxiety tapes available and they sholdn't be too expensive.Bada


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

"The IBS tapes that are offered do address stress, tension, anxiety issues, however they are "generic" and can't be fine tuned to YOUR problems."The tapes are fine tuned to treating IBS using specific gut directed Hypnotherapy!!!All hypnotherapy shown to work for IBS is gut directed or gut focused.If you have anxiety in and of itself for other reasons then IBS, perhaps seeing a therapist who deals with anxiety is the best option. If your anxiety is from IBS however, then gut directed HT for IBS or CBT that is directed at IBS is the most benefical.


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## Linda C (Aug 29, 2001)

WOW! THanks for all your prompt responses! Yes, I have found the Midwest program rather generic so far and I have already identified a lot of my specific "issues" in the psychotherapy I've been receiving over the past year or so. I do have other general anxiety issues, but I believe it all originates from the IBS. I have a few more days left of my "30-day free trial" with the Midwest program, so I have to decide FAST if I'm keeping it or not. I had decided to keep it, until today when I logged on here and started reading about Mike's tapes! Now I don't know what to do!!!Chrisgeorge - you're right! It DOES kill me to hear what you paid for this program! But that's great for you!! And I thought I was a bargain shopper!... I am Canadian, so with the exchange, I am paying about $600 for the program! (If I keep it, that is!!). Congratulations on your $5 deal!


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## chrisgeorge (Feb 28, 2003)

To all.Lets say a person has anxiety issues stemming from a childhood trauma. The Midwest Center programme will uncover that. That is specific.Prerecorded tapes are generic, because they can't specifically address those types of issues.Thank you


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

The childhood trauma would be an anxiety issue in and of itself that would require treatment from someone who works with anxiety and childhood trauma issues.The tapes specifically address IBS anxiety and the physical symptoms of IBS.


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## trbell (Nov 1, 2000)

Probably best not to be diagnosed by internet, Linda. What does your therapist think? Is your therapist someone who is familiar with IBS? That's a reasonable question to ask these days, BTW.I know you must feel like your getting buried here at the moment but it has nothing to do with you. I'm currently disabled and don't have anything better to do than put out advice.Bada


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

> quote:"Prerecorded tapes are generic, because they can't specifically address those type of issues."


If that statement is referring to Mike's IBS Audioprogram 100, it is, undeniably, inaccurate.Mike's IBS Audioprogram 100 is *gut directed* which makes it undeniably *specific*.For more info on Mike's program please see his website. http://www.ibsaudioprogram100.com/ BQ


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## chrisgeorge (Feb 28, 2003)

BQ,I'm not talking about scripts, I'm talking about issues.


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## Linda C (Aug 29, 2001)

Well, I don't have any childhood trauma to blame my anxiety on, so I've gone something going for me!! My therapist is very familiar with IBS and knows that my anxiety is mostly due to the IBS. What I've done so far with the Midwest Program has been helpful... I'm just not sure if it's $600 helpful! It's too soon to tell. Until today, I didn't know there was any other program that was specifically geared at IBS anxiety.


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

Chris, IMO you don't know what you are talking about.Just curious, do you have IBS?Just curious, have you ever used the IBS Audioprogram 100?BQ


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## JackieGian (Mar 23, 2002)

Linda, if your anxiety stems mostly from the IBS, I would undoubtedly do Mike's tapes. My 15 yr. old son was diagnosed with IBS over a year ago. The ONE thing that helped him the most was the audio tapes. He is almost totally off all meds and managing his symptoms quite well. He still listens to the tapes periodically. Additionally, you are already seeing a therapist who can help you with other anxieties. So if your main problem is IBS, do Mike's tapes they are specifically geared to the anxiety that comes with IBS.


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Linda, excuse the interuption to your questions here, but this is important information.The main point here is what do you believe is triggering the anxiety IBS or personal issues and also how bad is it? If its really bad then seeking professional from a qaulified mental health professional and a diagnoses is in order."from your last post I see your seeing someone already that is good thing.Chris, what does this mean?"Although hypnosis treatment has been found highly effective in the treatment of IBS in several research studies to date, the exact length and nature of the treatment varies considerably depending on the clinicians conducting the treatment. *It has become clear that some clinicians who are using highly individualized treatment approaches which deviate significantly from the empirically tested methods for example, use insight-oriented hypnotherapy approach, which is generally neither necessary nor advisable with this condition sometimes achieve much less progress and lower success rate, and may even cause exacerbation of symptoms."* How does that apply here to what your saying and treating IBS?"Lets say a person has anxiety issues stemming from a childhood trauma."Would you say then that was using "using highly individualized treatment approaches...neither necessary nor advisable with this condition sometimes achieve much less progress and lower success rate, and may even cause exacerbation of symptoms) "If there are anxiety issues from the past they need to be treated sperately from the IBS from a medical professional who treats those problems. It is not needed to dig into someones past to treat IBS with HT and it may even exassperate the symptoms, what is needed is gut directed or gut focused HT that are the "kind of methods which have been repeatedly demonstrated to have high success rate in empirical studies, such as Whorwell et al's 1984, 1987 gut-directed hypnotherapy or the Palsson et al's 1997, 2000 protocol. "Linda, give the center tapes the time, I have heard they are quite helpful for anxiety for people. Most of these things take sometime and effort, but can be extremely helpful.


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## chrisgeorge (Feb 28, 2003)

Eric,Your question needs to be answered by the originator. I didn't ask the question or make the comment. In fact couldn't find it. So I don't know what you're saying.


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

I am saying you treat, "anxiety issues stemming from a childhood trauma"Seperately then treating IBS, childhood trauma is not the cause of IBS, although it may have been a participating factor perhaps, IBS however is a physical problem and the gut directed or gut focused HT for IBS is standardized treatment protocols for the physical problem of IBS as the condition it is as a physical problem.The information, I forgot to post the link, but did on the other thread, is from here? http://www.ibshypnosis.com/IBSprotocol.html


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## Linda C (Aug 29, 2001)

Thanks for your advice, all. I think I'll continue with the Centre tapes for the few days I have left of my "trial" period. Maybe I'll try to find a used copy of the program. Anyone out there have one they'd like to sell??!! $600 is a big investment, but worth every penny if it works.


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## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Linda, this is expert information and very helpful.The Effects of Hypnosison Gastrointestinal Problems http://www.med.unc.edu/medicine/fgidc/hypnosis.htm Using Relaxation Coping with Functional Gastrointestinal Disorders http://www.med.unc.edu/medicine/fgidc/relax.htm Hypnotherapy for Functional Gastrointestinal Disorders By: Peter J. Whorwell, M.D., University Hospital of South Manchester, England http://www.aboutibs.org/Publications/hypnosis.html


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

Got your PM Chris. (that was the last one, btw)I find it odd that what was stated there couldn't have been stated here. ??No, I meant, have you ever _used_ the IBS Audioprogram 100 to treat your IBS symptoms?BQ


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## trbell (Nov 1, 2000)

For --'s sake. The poor lady is not a battleground! This forum is to help people I thought?I don't think Linda will be posting here anymore, and I think that's unfortunate.Couldn't we have battle threads and allow some room for people to get their questions and concerns delat with.Bada


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

Tom, It is your _perception_ or opinion that this is a "battle thread". It is not mine.I'm sure Linda is just fine and will make the best decision for herself in regards to her symptom management. However, your concern is noted.BQ


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## Guest (Aug 13, 2003)

Chris... I have both a question and a comment for both you and Tom about the anxiety tapes from Midwest Center:Question: Is delving into the past such a good idea?Comment: Doing so made both my anxiety and IBS worse. I underwent regression therapy (where I went back to reexperience childhood trauma) in a realtime setting in my therapist's office that was targeted towards my anxiety. It did not go well. I further cannot fathom engaging in "regression therapy" by using tapes and without seeking the care of a qualified therapist, psychologist or psychiatrist.In fact, one of the reasons I was originally so against even trying Mike's recordings had to do with previous experiences in realtime settings with therapists who kept trying to dredge up my past and I was erroneously terrified of trying his recordings because of how devastated I had been from those previous attempts at dredging up my childhood traumas. It was Eric who helped me get started with Mike's recordings even though I was still very very apprehensive.When I went through the IBS Audio 100 program put out by Michael Mahoney, even though it is gut-directed and gut-specific... it also had remarkable effects on my levels of anxiety. It did, in fact, help me where my own therapist fell short. Mike's recordings are also very affordable and very convenient. I can't say enough good things about them. And further, I can't say enough good things about Eric's helping me when I was down and out. Even though I had been very difficult to deal with, he stuck with me and it's turned out to be one of the best things I've ever done for my health.Tom... you helped me in other ways too and you know that you did and I am also greatful for that and you know that I am. Your writing therapy has also helped me a great deal.Evie


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## Nikki (Jul 11, 2000)

Good God! $600! And its not even specific for your problems? I say stick out the free trial and then send them right on back and use the money youve saved on the $100 for Mikes tapes. They worked wonders for a lot of people on here.Ignore Tom and Chris, they like to complicate things.Nikki


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## trbell (Nov 1, 2000)

Evie, I don't know where your question comes from here:"Question: Is delving into the past such a good idea?"I don't think I've ever said it was a good idea for many or most people and your assumption here is damaging to me professionally and to psychologists in general. I happen to be trained to recognize it as a problem and qualified to explore it if needed but you seem to be making a big jump here by saying that all psychologists or hypnotherapists do this all the time. You might well have had some bad encounters or seen some bad movies but I have to think most of us have more sense?I hope you don't mind if I single you out here as i know you are not the only one with this anti-psychology type of thinking but I use you as an example as you've had experience with my methods.You might also look at the discussion I had with k about this awhile back as it was a discussion that didn't degenerate into name calling.Bada


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## chrisgeorge (Feb 28, 2003)

Evie,The childhood trauma was used as an example only to highlight a point I was making. It was not part of Linda C's question nor implied that was the recourse to take. Plus, I'm not aware of any prerecorded tapes on the market (although there probably are) that use regression scripts. That would be just too dangerous! It's too bad when we can't have a conversation even a disagreement without degrading to name calling or being told to be ignored. I thought this was an adult forum, but I guess I'm mistaken. Too bad we're going back to way it was.


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## Guest (Aug 13, 2003)

I have to go work right now, but not before I say this:1) I am in no way making any attempts to degrade anything or anyone2) My experiences are based on just that ... my experiences.... there were no movies going through my head3) This is one time I have to say that the two of you, Tom and Chris, are making an argument out of something that was not intended to be an argument. I have good questions, good comments and my intentions are also good here.... ok?4) I often experience difficulties with cognitive dysfunction which, I think, is related to my fibromyalgia... so if I misunderstood something, you have my apologies.... but don't assume that I am "on the attack", because that simply is not trueHave a good day, Evie


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

No Chris, I disagree. The way this forum _used_ to be was calm, supportive and open minded. It is my observation that it started to become a whole lot less, (and I mean less in every sense) upon, first, Tom's presence and then, your presence here.The shame, IMO, is entirely both of yours.BQ


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## trbell (Nov 1, 2000)

Evie, Apology accepted. i didn't intendmy comments as a personal attack. I just wanted to point out that perhaps you were overgeneralizing in the comment ou made. To overgeneralize is human, I think.BQ, It generally takes two to disagree or make an argument. it might be that n the past dissent was banished? Bada


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

Tom, I disagree. You see contrary to your perception, this forum was NOT about 'banishment' of anything. It didn't take away, it only added. It was about creating a positive environment for folks to learn about and share their experiences with CBT and hypnotherapy. There were NO other underlying motives........ I am sorry to say I think that there ARE some with underlying negative motives here now.This forum is about CBT and hypnotherapy. It is NOT about which CBT or which hypnotherapy is best. It is NOT a contest, although some seem to think so. Those "some" are, in my opinion, posting contrarily to Jeff's purpose for this Forum.If we are all agreed that CBT and Hypnotherapy are in themselves good methods of symptom management for some, (probably many) than I think the "discussions" or "arguments" that exist here are pointless and stray very FAR from the purpose of this forum.BQ


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## Nikki (Jul 11, 2000)

I am not happy with the way this forum has gone, and i belive it has been since Toms arrival, and now, Chris George also.you have started your anti hypnosis club between the two of you, whenever somebody recommeneds something, you steam in with something anti.You have been very negetive to hypnotherapy, so what is the point in you continuing to post to this forum.Im sure your energies would be better elsewhere. This place was a much calmer and happy place befoer certain people got on soapboxes.You're the psychologist. Why does nobody visit this forum anymore? You tell me.


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## JackieGian (Mar 23, 2002)

BQ, I think you are absolutely correct!


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## trbell (Nov 1, 2000)

BQ, Points well taken. that's why I'm trying to separate these arguments and ads out of threads started by people who come here for help. i've also noticed that bonniei has taken a very positive direction on CBT and nobody has joined her efforts.Nikki, please read some of the posts rather than just relying on what someone says they contain. it's really unlikely that chris and I are 'antihypnotism', isn't it. We are both hypnotherapists.it's also unlikely that we are against Mike's tapes and I'm sure I've never said anything even close to that. Mike's tapes are a good product. it's just that they are not the only product and sometimes people might be better off if they are given the opportunit to see a therapist?Actually i don't think either of us is 'anti-eric'! I have posted over and over agian that eric is a wonderful person and that I agree with 85 to 90% of what he posts. The problem seems to be though that I don't happen to agree 100%.Bada


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## Nikki (Jul 11, 2000)

Well, if you are not anti this and anti whatever then maybe you should start acting that way. If you are here to further your careers then i think you are in the wrong place. If yuo are here to help people then great! Actually try and do some good.Of course you were anti eric. You have been ever since the beginning. Its old and tired Tom, everyone is getting fed up of it.You are a hypnotherapist, then i really think you need to start acting a little bit more responsibly and maybe talk to people about your experiences with it rather than slate other peoples.I would never see a therapist that was an unprofessional as you and Chris seem to be.You have not contributed to the harmony of this forum.I would like to add that i don't listen to what other people have said and i do not like what you are implying Tom. Funnily enough, i am able to make observations for myself.


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## chrisgeorge (Feb 28, 2003)

This is better than the comic books!!Its true humour is the best medicine.


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## trbell (Nov 1, 2000)

Nikki, I'm not anti-eric. eric says that I'm anti-eric. i admit that i don't agree 100% with what he says, but i also don't agree with 100% of what a ot of people say, including Chris. Sorry, chris, but I have to say it. I know you don't like to read, Nikki, but I would suggest you read the qustion eric posted for chris and me and my answerBada


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## nmwinter (May 31, 2001)

Linda - just want to say I hope which ever course you choose works for you. you seem to have a good attitude and that has to go a long way.


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## Guest (Aug 14, 2003)

Linda... I hope you won't let this temporary mishap put you off to reading and posting here. Being cranky is part of having IBS.I'm going fishing.The trick is to learn to not put out bait for anything you don't want to catch....







 Tom... you are aware of my cognitive dysfunction and I am aware that you are very concerned about professionalism. I further think we know each other well enough and respect each other enough to attempt to discuss rather than ignite the flames of anger. And yes, sometimes I DO overgeneralize.. because I get so overwhelmed.I was upset this morning, but I did the right thing and refrained from allowing my limbic system to govern my thoughts and actions. I'd say that's pretty darn good for me.....







In fact, it's been the key all along to surviving and thriving in spite of BPD.And hey.... my innerds are reflecting my good sense....







Evie


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## AZMom (Oct 13, 1999)

I did both Mike's tapes and the Midwest Center for Stress and Anxiety. I did the Midwest tapes at least 10 years ago, and actually, the first time I had heard the word "IBS" was on their tapes. I've also spoken with Lucinda Bassett personally, and she is an extraordinary woman doing great work.I had always thought my IBS symptoms were brought on by anxiety/panic attacks. That's what the Drs told me at the time. Although these tapes helped and I did them faithfully, they are not hypnosis tapes. They are really a course in CBT. It is useful if anxiety is a big problem in your life. However, you can't really compare them with Mike's tapes, they are two different therapies.Mikes tapes helped me more. But I found the others useful, learned a lot, and they helped me understand the biology of a panic attack. It also taught me not to fear them, which was a big step.AZ


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