# Low stomach acid & betaine HCL (hydrochloride)



## seahorse (Feb 4, 2015)

I was talking to my friend (who has chrons diesease) about my ibs and asking for advice and she recomended checking my stomach acid. I have a lot of constipation and bloatedness from it, what happens with me is i will literally have no bowel movements what so ever for many days sometimes even not for a week or 2 until my body is completely filled with food (it feels like eating more food physically pushes everything else down kinda thing) then i get some extreme cramping and everything will come out at once but really hard.

In the past I have also had times where I eat food and then it comes out not looking like poo at all but mashed up food, as if it hasn't been digested properly. I have had loads of bacteria/candida tests done and all have come back negative, I have even taken metronidazole just to make sure. ive taken laxatives before but they cause me so much pain, ive just been prescribed a different kind of laxative (movicol) which apparantly wont cause me pain.

Could low stomach acid be a possible cause? apparantly betaine HCL can help this, has anyone tried this or know anything about it? I don't want to risk damaging my insides further if there are any risks.


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## jaumeb (Sep 1, 2014)

I don't take betaine hcl, but I thought the following information might be useful to you:

http://scdlifestyle.com/2012/03/how-to-supplement-with-betaine-hcl-for-low-stomach-acid/


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## seahorse (Feb 4, 2015)

thank you so much. i think im going to try out the betaine HCL and see what happens.


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## Elyse J Meyer (Feb 1, 2015)

seahorse said:


> thank you so much. i think im going to try out the betaine HCL and see what happens.


I remember reading that same article about low stomach acid a while ago and wondering if that was an issue for me too. I hope you made sure to read the part about the warnings to get a physician involved before taking something like betaine HCL. Just my opinion, but I'd want to make* sure *that was actually an issue before taking something to remedy it. I've also read a lot of info that says low stomach acid can also mimic symptoms of too much stomach acid!

I noticed in your first comment your friend said you should look into getting your stomach acid levels checked. But did she say how you do that? I'm assuming there's some sort of test that your physician would perform?

Does anybody else know?


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## jaumeb (Sep 1, 2014)

I think I read in Aglaee Jacob's book that there is a clinical test, but it is not commonly used. I think that there is also a "home test" which involves taking sodium bicarbonate and measuring how long it takes for you to burp (this sounds really unreliable).


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## annie7 (Aug 16, 2002)

here's another link re low stomach acid. i think it's a little bit different than the one posted earlier. but on the same website. someone mentioned it to me last month. it has several tests for low stomach acid including the baking soda "home test" as well as the heidelberg stomach acid test and some others. and it talks about betaine HCL. and if you google "home test for low stomach acid" you'll come up with even more links...

http://scdlifestyle.com/2012/03/3-tests-for-low-stomach-acid/

for what it's worth---on another board, i read one woman's post on a home test for low stomach acid (she read about this somewhere) . she did this: mixed one tablespoon of concentrated lemon juice in 6-8 oz of water. she said if it helps make you feel better right away, you know you have low stomach acid, if it makes it worse, you have too much acid. Right away she said felt better and the next morning she felt even better. .......her problems were gas, cramping, bloating, nausea.

so i tried this and right away i felt worse...much worse..all day in fact. so i'm thinking that isn't my problem. i have GERD , so i didn't think low acid was my problem but someone kept encouraging me to try it anyway...silly me--i should have know better lol.


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## tummyrumbles (Aug 14, 2005)

Low stomach acid could also be from overeating. It could be that too much food in the stomach dilutes stomach acid. So it's not that we don't produce enough of it, but that overeating depletes it.

http://drpricedc.com/tip11_indigestion.html

The main cause of indigestion (and GERD) is considered by many to be overeating.

http://www.refluxmd.com/learn/resources/obesity-and-gerd-epidemic

I got a shock when my daughter told me I overate. I thought I was honest with myself regarding reasons for my IBS but I wasn't. I don't put on weight and used to be very skinny. I think overeating causes obesity for most people but for many of us the food isn't digested properly causing gas.

This is a very interesting study on how overeating affects mitochondria, the organelles responsible for digestion.

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/2015/01/21/how-overeating-may-contribute-to-a-metabolic-traffic-jam/

We probably all overeat if we don't consciously think about it. Food is such a basic pleasure in life and it's hard not to overindulge especially when so many of us tend to lack other pleasures as well (...um)

I try not to eat constipating foods because even if I keep the food level down I still get constipated if I eat things like white rice, white bread etc.


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## seahorse (Feb 4, 2015)

so far the betaine HCL seems to have helped quite a bit. i take it with meals and it seems to have reduced bloating quite a bit. i never did any sort of stomach acid tests, but looking back im pretty sure it was an issue for me. months ago i used to look at my stools and they literally looked like mashed up food, they didn't even resemble poo in the slightest, they just looked like the food i had eaten. im pretty sure overeating has never been a problem with me. i have a history of anorexia and crash dieting.

last year i had been living off a few rice cakes and slices of ham a day, this may have agrevated my stomach a lot, especially since i would make sure i ate only after 3-5pm to make sure my stomach "burnt" fat off throughout the day.


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## annie7 (Aug 16, 2002)

Seahorse--so glad it's helping you!

...and no, overeating has never been a problem with me, either....


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## tummyrumbles (Aug 14, 2005)

There's a strong link between eating disorders and IBS

"Can eating disorders cause functional gastrointestinal disorders?"

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2982.2010.01621.x/pdf

"Delayed gastric emptying (GE) is frequently observed in anorexia and bulimia nervosa patients."

The other thing is that peristalsis works during and after meals, so regular meals might be better rather than long fasts to get things moving along.

"Impact of eating restriction on gastrointestinal motility in adolescents with IBS: A pilot study" (can't provide link for some reason)

"... studies have shown that when feeding resumes in anorexia patients delayed GE improved, indicating that changes in GE may be secondary to restricted food intake."

According to this study whole gut transit is slower in people who restrict food.

It seems all eating disorders - undereating and overeating - might slow things down.

I think in another post you mentioned having long fasts then overloading on food because I think you said this is the only thing that works. You could try to normalise meal times and just eat small portions maybe more regularly. Some foods are highly constipating for me like rice, white bread etc. Maybe try eating mainly low FODMAP veges with meat / fish and try that for a day or so.


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## seahorse (Feb 4, 2015)

tummyrumbles - interesting article, definately makes a lot of sense. ]

I do eat quite a lot of rice, rice cakes, potatoes etc. maybe I should cut out carbs? iam on FODMAP diet as well. but i have to admit Iam terrible with vegetables, they make me gag and reflex (this could be a psychological thing though). are there any particular vegetables you would recomend? if im being honest the whole FODMAP thing confuses me, cause I have read soooo many different articles on it and they seem to all contradict each other in some way or another.


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## tummyrumbles (Aug 14, 2005)

To be honest I don't think the type of veges you eat is as important as not eating too much at a time, and not fasting for too long. A lot of people find rice very constipating. Maybe for someone with a history of anorexia there are other things going on but I'd start with mashed potato and pumpkin, or at least cooked carrots and beans and peas. Vegetables just seem to be the best foods for moving through. Maybe if you just graze during the day having a few small meals often rather than having a long fast in the morning then filling up a lot in the afternoon. It could be the sudden filling up that's causing the problems.


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## seahorse (Feb 4, 2015)

will definately try mashed potato that sounds managable. aren't beans and peas not allowed on the FODMAP diet?

im having regular small meals now. and its definately helping me to be less bloated along with the HCL, but its doing nothing whatso ever for my LG. I think personally the LG is the worse thing for me. Id rather lose a finger if it meant I could cure it. anyone know of anything I could try?

I have found no correalation what so ever with different types of food and LG. if i cosume something, anything, I will have LG and thats it.


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## jaumeb (Sep 1, 2014)

I can tell you what I am trying: Aglaee Jacob's protocol + S. Boulardii. In a few months/years I'll be able to tell if it works.


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## tummyrumbles (Aug 14, 2005)

Seahorse, the LG is mainly from incomplete evacuation. Eating smaller meal portions definitely helps with my IBS because the food is digested better, and speeds up evacuation for me because there's less gas, but it still takes a while - half an hour to an hour is a good time for me. I think we all have varying levels of motility dysfunction but honestly I can't think of a worse food for blocking you up than rice cakes, or any kind of rice. I'd try eating as many mild vegetables that you can eat spaced out over the day. Have a few hot drinks instead of laxatives as this is a natural laxative and maybe try sitting there for as long as you can. There might be embarrassment doing this depending on who you live with.


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## seahorse (Feb 4, 2015)

tummyrumbles - i will definately try cutting out rice and see what happens. but as for evacuation I could literally sit on the toilet all day and if it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen. ive tried sitting on the toilet for ages and I when ever ive felt incredibly bloated I have tried going to the toilet and willing something to happen, but it just doesn't. my gastroenterologist even prescribed me with laxatives to help it go through, and even those don't help me.


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## tummyrumbles (Aug 14, 2005)

I guess you need to work out whether your constipation can at least be partly cured by diet. You haven't said yet whether you've tried eating mainly veges during the day in regular small meals to see if this helps, with a few hot drinks after breakfast. Laxative use can cause an over-dependency and maybe it takes time to wean off those. Constipation is very complex but motility is at least connected to diet. If you try a mainly vege diet for at least a few days with some hot drinks and find that you're still constipated then you would have to go to a doctor although they'd probably just suggest laxatives. I think your situation is a lot more complicated than mine. I've never taken laxatives and I've always gone every day. I'm not convinced though that diet has no bearing on constipation at all - for anyone. Whatever your motility issues certain diets will always work better than other diets. Eating mainly veges doesn't necessarily mean eating high fibre. Veges can be boiled well, mashed etc to reduce a lot of the fibre, especially low FODMAP veges like potato pumpkin carrot string beans zucchini. Salad veges cause a lot of gas for me and have a lot of insoluble fibre which is rough on the colon. I'd probably not recommend these for you when you're starting to eat veges again. If you eat fruit just have one ripe banana. I don't doubt that you've sat on the toilet for hours and nothing happened because that happened to me too. My evacuation time is greatly reduced by eating mainly veges which is why I suggest you actually try this and see how you go. If this doesn't work I can't help as this would suggest a deeper medical issue.


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## annie7 (Aug 16, 2002)

Seahorse--you mentioned in another post that your doc said that your colonoscopy showed that your colon was quite twisted. i have a twisted colon. it definitely slows my motilty, no doubt about it. and that might very well be what's causing your constipation.

i asked my gastro for a sitz marker test (colonic transit study) because i thought i had more going on than ibs . the test showed i have slow colonic transit. but i am fortunate in that laxatives do work for me. i really sorry they don't help you. i hope you can find a good gastroenterologist who will work with you to find a treatment plan that brings you some relief.

and tummyrumbles is right, of course--diet does play a very important part in the management of constipation. but for some of us, depending on what our specific problems are, diet is unfortunately not the whole solution.


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## grits91058 (Jul 13, 2007)

I have always read that taking a teaspoon/tablespoon of lemon juice, lime juice, apple cider vinegar, etc will get the bowels moving. I have tested this theory many times. It has the exact opposite effect on me...after about three days I am totally clogged up. Supposedly acidic foods are supposed to help with constipation, but anything high in acid (tomato-based products, OJ..) has the opposite effect. I have done exhaustive research trying to find out why but everything I read says acidic is good for bowel movements. Anyone have insight on this?


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## seahorse (Feb 4, 2015)

thanks for all the suggestion guys =] .

tummyrumbles - im definately eating mostly veg now and gluten free porridge for breakfast. I will have matcha tea and jasmine tea for dessert usually after each meal, and my betaine HCL, peppermint oil, disgestive enzymes before i eat. I find eating vegetables in general very difficult, for most of my life ive been a carnivore and i never even tried vegetables or fruit until a few years ago. and cause of this whenever I tried to eat fruit I would have extreme bloating and a lot of vegetables would make me gag or vomit. Ive tried potatoes recently but I feel like they don't do good for stomach as far as i know. iam taking spirulina pills though. are there any light veges which are easy to digest u could recomend?


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## jaumeb (Sep 1, 2014)

I started with peeled, seeded, cooked zucchini.


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## tummyrumbles (Aug 14, 2005)

It makes it really hard if you have an aversion to vegetables. If you find a food disgusting and it makes you feel nauseous this will affect digestion. Fried potatoes and oven baked sweet potato chips are delicious in my view but high in starch and can cause gas but I think the important thing is to eat veges again even if they do cause gas. Are there no veges that you like the taste of? If we do something long enough we can convince ourselves of anything and it seems you've set up a really strong dislike of veges. Maybe you can turn this around by trying to be positive and telling yourself you really do need them. Maybe if you try some milder tasting veges and find that you start to go again this might change your perception of veges so they're no longer disgusting. Self-sabotage can be a factor too, where we tell ourselves that the things that can cure us are bad for us. If you do try starchy veges eat them very slowly and this should minimise a lot of gas. Are you able to take time off work / school if you need to?


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## seahorse (Feb 4, 2015)

tummyrumbles - there are vegetables i like but even if I like the taste of them they dont seem to go down well, my body kinda rejects them. the only ones ive been ok with that i know of are corn and peas, but i cant eat peas now cause im FODMAP.

also I did laxatives yesterday and did complete evacuation but I still got LG.


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## jaumeb (Sep 1, 2014)

What about zucchini?


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## seahorse (Feb 4, 2015)

jaumeb said:


> What about zucchini?


ive never tried zucchini, will definately give it a go. =]


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## jaumeb (Sep 1, 2014)

seahorse said:


> ive never tried zucchini, will definately give it a go. =]


Peeled, seeded and cooked. That's an important detail I forgot to mention.


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## seahorse (Feb 4, 2015)

jaumeb said:


> Peeled, seeded and cooked. That's an important detail I forgot to mention.


cheers ^^ . i'll have to read a recipe and practise cause the only thing ive ever seeded is a pumpkin for halloween.


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## Elyse J Meyer (Feb 1, 2015)

HI seahorse,

I'm just wondering...you said you noticed a reduction in bloating since you started taking the betaine HCL. I too suffer from bloating but I also have these awful feelings too of after eating having the feeling of food just sitting there, idle, like it's just not being digested for a long time. Did you ever get those feelings too or was it just a bloating feeling?

Please keep us posted on how things are/aren't improving with this betaine HCL. I'm interested in seeing if it does help, in any way, shape or form. I think like most of us, even if something isn't a "cure-all", anything that can relieve just a few of the many many symptoms we have to endure could be beneficial.

Thanks.


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## seahorse (Feb 4, 2015)

Elyse J Meyer said:


> HI seahorse,
> 
> I'm just wondering...you said you noticed a reduction in bloating since you started taking the betaine HCL. I too suffer from bloating but I also have these awful feelings too of after eating having the feeling of food just sitting there, idle, like it's just not being digested for a long time. Did you ever get those feelings too or was it just a bloating feeling?
> 
> ...


i had the same. I would get so bloated my belly would get round (im a slim person naturally) and it would hurt like it was expanding too much. since almost a week of taking the betaine HCL i don't get bloated like that anymore, I have however been eating smaller meals more regularly, but to be honest I think the HCL has made a huge significance so Id definately recommend it.

id definately make sure though that you take digestive enzymes with it as well. just before each meal I take vegetable based digestive enzymes with betaine HCL (+pepsin) , there is 324mg of betaine HCL and 50mg of Pepsin, calcium phosphate, microcrystalline celluslose, stearic acid and magnesium stearate in each tablet. I have no idea what pepsin is. but it's working, so im gonna keep taking it.

let me know how it goes for you if you decide to try it out. =]


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## Elyse J Meyer (Feb 1, 2015)

seahorse said:


> i had the same. I would get so bloated my belly would get round (im a slim person naturally) and it would hurt like it was expanding too much. since almost a week of taking the betaine HCL i don't get bloated like that anymore, I have however been eating smaller meals more regularly, but to be honest I think the HCL has made a huge significance so Id definately recommend it.
> 
> id definately make sure though that you take digestive enzymes with it as well. just before each meal I take vegetable based digestive enzymes with betaine HCL (+pepsin) , there is 324mg of betaine HCL and 50mg of Pepsin, calcium phosphate, microcrystalline celluslose, stearic acid and magnesium stearate in each tablet. I have no idea what pepsin is. but it's working, so im gonna keep taking it.
> 
> let me know how it goes for you if you decide to try it out. =]


Thanks, seahorse. I've tried so many things with some good outcomes and some *terrible* outcomes, so anytime someone has a recommendation that's based on something they've been taking for at least a few weeks, I'll give it a shot. Good luck and keep us posted on how it's going with the betaine HCL.

Take care.


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## seahorse (Feb 4, 2015)

Elyse J Meyer said:


> Thanks, seahorse. I've tried so many things with some good outcomes and some *terrible* outcomes, so anytime someone has a recommendation that's based on something they've been taking for at least a few weeks, I'll give it a shot. Good luck and keep us posted on how it's going with the betaine HCL.
> 
> Take care.


cheers ^_^ , let me know to how it goes. ive only been taking it for just over a week now, but I'll let you know if anything changes.


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