# A probiotic actually helped 100%



## Talissa

Hi all,We're all different, I know. But for the past 10 months I've been taking one probiotic mix--"Pro-Bio Inulin Free" by Kirkman Labs & am now completely normal. Its hard for me to wrap my brain around this after having IBS for 8 years or so...I ran out of Pro-Bio IF once & my IBS came back. But I must add I was already in a pretty good place--only going 3-5 times a day solid due to fiber, with diet restrictions....I've since cut my fiber intake in half. I mainly take fiber now because I know I'm bad & don't eat enough in my diet. As for diet, I can eat the most inflammatory foods & not be effected. Its fun testing it out....So far, the only thing that mildly affects my bowels is PMS. I added (non-yam) natural progesterone cream & problem solved. I go once a day in the am. Sometimes once again in the afternoon. Solid. Need to strain a bit. Ahhh. Please let this help someone else.I tried hundreds of dollars worth of probiotics & none made such a defined difference. I only had good luck with antibacterial herbs, but who wants to take that all the time?? I waited well over 4 months to share this, & I wanted to shout it from the rooftops! But I just had to make sure it lasts...& I'm hoping this doesn't jinx it. Anyways, I just had to pass it on in case it helps someone else. I really, really hope it does! With love, T-


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## 13931

This is great news Talissa. I have been having a pretty rough time of things lately despite some pretty severe dietary restrictions which help but don't entirely solve the problem. I had been trying to decide whether or not to spend more money on another probiotic. Knowing full well that people differ in their response, this gives me a good choice of something to try that I haven't tried before. I too have spent a seemingly endless amount of money on probiotics and other things to try to get this under control. I hate to throw more money away but this sounds worth trying. I had heard good things of Kirkman labs before so at least I know I am going with a reputable company. What kind of fiber do you take and what types of diet do you follow? I am bound and determined to get this under control but after a lifetime of trying it is sometimes hard to remain hopeful. It is so good to hear that someone whose perspective is similar to mine had found success. Thanks for you help,JFR


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## overitnow

Hey Talissa--This is such a great story. I have often wondered what caused your disappearance from the Board. It must have been an interesting year, because look how it ended.So happy for you.Merry Christmas.Mark


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## Arnie W

It was so nice to see your name on the board again. Isn't it strange, I have been thinking about you nearly every day for the last fortnight or so, then you appear on the board again. I've been thinking about flux too. Maybe I'll make him materialize as well. Anyway, I hope you're going to hang around here, as you bring a good balance to the board. I need your opinion on a couple of things, so I intend to start a new thread within a few days.


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## Arnie W

Talissa, I've just visited the Kirkmans site. Do you buy from them or from another site? Knowing your style, I'm sure you've researched various sites for best prices and shipping options. Thanks so much. I wouldn't mind getting some before Christmas. Like you, I have never had a probiotic make a difference for me, and, believe me, I've tried plenty.


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## Talissa

Mark & Arnie! Wow, it's nice to talk to you guys again. I hope you're both doing really well. Arnie, So you're the reason I posted! I was trying to hold out for a full 12 months of normalcy before posting, & for some reason I just did it today. You're the "some reason".







Energy can cross the oceans, eh? Are you still body-building? I order from Kirkman's direct. I can't find anyone else who carries it & is willing to ship int'l. I first picked it up at a health food store on a visit home. I just bought it because I liked the combo of probiotic strains. I wasn't expecting anything to change....It literally only took 2 days on it. One a day.I really don't want to get anyone's hopes up,though. I'd rather someone get it because its good for them & maybe they'll get a nice surprise like me....I hope so. JFR, You sound -just- like me a few years ago. Keep the faith. I take metamucil fiber. Before the Pro-Bio IF, I took a high dose like recommended by Heather--3 T am before breakfast & 3 T before dinner. I did best by not eating anything with HFCS, msg, or soy in it. No high fat or high sugar. I don't blame your skepticism re: probiotics. Maybe if you have the extra $ someday, just try it. Our microflora systems are so complex, what works for me may indeed not work for you right now...All the best, T-


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## overitnow

Life has been really good for me these past couple of years. First, there was the float down the Yukon River with my boys. Then, once we finally got dug out from last year's windstorm (and the 30-40 trees that had to come down and be cut up and hauled away to make the property safe), I got to spend 3 weeks going to Europe for the first time. I managed to meet up with SueV in the Lakes as well as going on a beer, schnitzel, and classical music wander through Bavaria and up to Berlin. This year we are making reservations to go to Italy to (finally) see the Renaissance, the antiquities, eat fresh pasta, and drink a bunch of red wine. And that should complete the list of things to do that I have been carrying around since the 60s. This feels like I'm finally cashing in on all of the money I have spent on my health for the last 8 years; and boy, is it worth it.Perhaps we will get down your way some winter and you can give me a tennis lesson...Mark


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## Arnie W

Energy certainly must cross the oceans. It happens in real life so much too. I can start suddenly thinking heaps about someone and suddenly you bump into them somewhere.I'll see if they'll post to this neck of the woods. I'll go in with no expectations and, if they work for me, it's a bonus. Thankyou for giving the opportunity of having a glimmer of hope. You're correct too about not wanting to say anything for fear of hexing results. That's happened to me, but if you've lasted this long there must be something in it which is working for you.I'm still weightlifting. It's entrenched in me and raises my selfesteem which otherwise would be dragged down by all my digestive woes.Take care and I hope all continues to go well with you.


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## Arnie W

What spurred me into thinking about you so much, Talissa, is that I was told I would need to take a course of cipro next February. I remembered your opinion about cipro, so each time I thought about doing a post on the board about it, I would think about you! I will try to track down some of your posts about it, but if you, or anyone else reading this, would like to give a brief response to the thread which I have finally just posted, please feel free to contribute. I posted it on the IBS forum, but I'm afraid it might get moved to another forum, and, if so, you'll find it if you click the View New Posts.


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## Kathleen M.

Glad to hear you found something.I've had good luck with a few brands (mostly just reducing farting as IBS is already under control) but it does seem some people take awhile to find the one that works well with them.What I've found is ones that work tend to work quickly for me. If I don't see much difference in the first few days it doesn't seem a few more weeks changes anything.Everyone's ecology is a little different so I think it can take finding what works for you.K.


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## Talissa

Arnie, I woke up this am & was waiting to see if I did indeed jinx it by posting about it! How negative of me, because it was a nice(beautiful!) pre-IBS bathroom experience. Whew. I'm like that with foods too. Its like I'm expecting to go back to chronic D & am so surprised when its okay. Just normal. No marching bands to announce this amazing thing that's happened. Just normal every day living. You'll see what I mean when you stop looking & the solution comes. (my prediction anyways--I hope its the Pro-Bio though--that'd just be so great).Mark, you have had an incredible time of life lately! I'm so jealous you got to meet Sue! I bet you all had fun. Italy should be amazing too--any IBSrs there? I had friends who just got back from Italy. They loved it--esp the vatican, & they were surprised at how different Italians prepare their food. I won't tell you how because I want to see if you say the same thing! The food was great though, for them....Would love to give you tennis lessons. Ha! Fun times, that'd be.Kathleen--hey stranger! I always thought a probiotic needed two weeks or more to make any difference. Now, I'll just have to agree with what you said above.


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## Kathleen M.

I could see two weeks for the full benefit one might get.If I haven't seen anything in 3-5 days it isn't that likely after another 10 I'll start to see something happen.Some things can take awhile to kick in and the changes may be subtle when they start. Also IBS doesn't always stop on a dime it may coast for awhile.I do think that anything you try is worth doing for a full two weeks before saying it doesn't work at all, but I don't know how often something starts working on day 14 (or day 30 or day 90 or day 356) when you see no change for the first 13. I know the CBT I dd took awhile to kick in as can hypnotherapy, but there is a planed end of treatment for those.I know some people suggest taking something or doing something until you see a change but if you wait long enugh some people get better anyway and it may not be what they were doing. Also no one treatment is 100% sure to work. Some some sort of deadline for moving on to something else makes sense to me. Two weeks seems like a fair trial for most things.My coenzyme Q10 for migraines does take a couple of weeks to kick in fully, but I can tell some difference before then.


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## Talissa

Hey Arnie--Sorry I missed your cipro post earlier. Here's some links for ya~~Quinolone Antibiotic Reaction Support GroupMedication SenseJust be sure not to take Calcium before during & rt after cipro....& don't exercise AT ALL while taking it. K--Well, good to be reminded some things never change. I remember now, must not agree nor diagreee. Got it...she says with a grin...







Btw, If we're going into other supp's, it takes on average 2 months for glucosamine to kick in for joint pains & 6 months for gingko to help with mental clarity, I've read.


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## Arnie W

Talissa, I've just had a closer look at the shipping instructions and I don't think they'll mail to my neck of the woods. Because of the refrigeration thing it looks as if the product needs to arrive within 3 days. It would take at least 5 to get here, but, more likely, over a week. SIGH. However, I'll contact them and see if they have some options for me. I do hope that other people on the board try it and share their results.Thanks for the links!! I'll read everything with an open mind.


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## Kathleen M.

Wasn't trying to cause problems. I know that with Glucosomine for injuries (luckily no chronic joint pain) it doesn't take months for me. The only thing I've used ginko for is altitude sickness and that is like a week before you go and then the first week you are there. I try to limit Glucosamine as it can raise cholesterol in some people so I use it for a few weeks after an injury and it really does seem to shorten my healing time. I know in healthy younger people some studies seem to show Ginko has some effects immediately that lessen over time, not sure about other populations.I'm not sure sometimes how much of the it takes 6 weeks to 6 months or longer info is really based on studies or just based on the experience of people who would see a difference a year later anyway.Saying it takes 6 months to even see any difference can be a great way to make sure people buy a lot of something before they give up, so unless there is a reason to think it takes that long I tend to not be that trusting of the information. Either a plausible physiological reason or some clinical data, without that it comes off as a sales tactic to me.Unfortunately for a lot of these things it is hard to get good information and often the clinical trials are only 4-12 weeks and they often see results in those time frames, and not just for the last couple of days.


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## overitnow

Talissa said:


> Btw, If we're going into other supp's, it takes on average 2 months for glucosamine to kick in for joint pains & 6 months for gingko to help with mental clarity, I've read.


It was only a month for glucosamine to eliminate my bad hip and just 2-3 months for the flavonoids (including gingko) to clear the brain fog. It did take a year to eliminate the D; but there were signs that it was working after the first couple of weeks. But then I was only 10 days for the multis to stop me from falling asleep at stop lights, so I don't think there can ever be a general rule, other than to have some patience with all of this.Kathleen, how serious is the gls-cholesterol connection? (I do only take 500 mg a day but I hate to be throwing fuel on my other fire.)Tennis, anyone?Mark


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## Kathleen M.

I'll check.I worry more than most as I have had medicine throw my cholesterol through the roof. (when I came off it for other reasons my cholesterol dropped by nearly 50% in 3 months not sure which units you are used to but I was over 300 and dropped back to the normal range)From what I can tell they did a follow up to the initial Danish study that got people worried. In that study it looks like most people do not have a problem up to 1500 mgs, but there are some reports that some people getting tested regularly see some noticable increases.My guess is some people may be sensitive like I am with some things. As long as your numbers are OK I wouldn't worry to much at that dose. Like I said I've had mine thrown to extremely high by something else, so I think I am at risk for other things doing it so I tend to play it safe.


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## Talissa

K--No, No. I really was laughing because I'd been so happy to be able to agree with you, about probiotics, & it still was arguable with you! Its funny... No trouble started at all. I'm sorry my post came ax otherwise.Arnie--I traveled with the probiotics for over a week, & it was no problem. When they ship it, its packed very tightly in dry ice. But I understand you wanting to wait & see. Like I said, I've a hard time believing Pro-Bio IF changes my condition too. But I'll enjoy it in the meantime! And I really do hope it can help someone else out there too.Take care,Talissa


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## 13931

I just ordered some Pro-Bio without inulin. This was after agreeing to pick my 90 year old mother up at an airport an hour away from here and then drive another hour, stay overnight at some fiends' house with my mother, go to a bar mitzvah the next day with her and then drive my mother back to the airport and then drive home. Right now I have a hard time leaving the house for any length of time but I want my mother to be able to do this since she wants to. Here's hoping this stuff works as well for me as it did for you Talissa. I have until the middle of February to get things functioning better than they are now.Jean


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## gilly07

Talissa This is great news.I have read many of your posts and like you my daughter has tried many things.I think finding the right probiotic is the key,but they do cause her a lot of pain.Did these probiotics cause much pain and bloating ? also Arnie,they seem to be available to Australians at biomed cafe, I think I may order some.Gilly


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## Arnie W

Getting right off topic now but, out of interest, my cholesterol levels have inexplicably gone up. When you exercise a lot and watch your diet, it doesn't add up. When I run out of my glucosamine, I'll give it a rest for a while and see what happens to my cholesterol levels. I take fishoil cps too, so will still have something for the joints.


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## gilly07

Arnie W Cant believe for once that something is available in Australia(dont know if they ship to NZ but this biomedcafe are in Queensland so Ive ordered a bottle. If starwoman reads this it might be a good one for you to try.Fingers crossed it arrives since everythings so hot and busy at this time of year.Gilly


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## 23392

Hey Talissa, Nice to see ya! Just back myself.What's this about cipro and calcium?I personally can't take the stuff--I'm one of the small percent where it crosses the blood-brain barrier and i get sooooo confused on it...quite dopey.But curious about the calcium thing.Will be watching to see who else reports what on pro-bio. Might be interested myself. --AO


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## Talissa

Hey Gilly & AO! G, I did have bloating for the first couple of months, but thank goodness it went away. I've never had any pain though from it, but I also don't think my tummy's oversensitive. Its so strange. I want others, like your D, to have the same response to taking Pro-Bio IF so badly, but I'm afraid no one will, & then I'll have gotten hopes up for nothing, & I've had that experience too many times to want that for others. Its a catch 22. But I can't be that unique--it has to effect some others out there the same way, right?I did find on a quick pubmed search a study that found 3 probiotic strains to be antinflammatory, one of which lowered diarrhea(l. casei), & all of which are in Pro-Bio IF. I bookmarked it on my other pc...Anyways, AO, nice to see you too! Calcium, & some other minerals, can increase the already high risk of tendon ruptures while taking fluoroquinolone antibiotics. There's info in pubmed on this too--more specifics on the mitochondria being adversely effected...Its been a while since I looked into this...Last year the state of illinois petitioned the FDA to issue a black box warning on this class of antibiotics, but of course, it was denied.This is the site I should've linked for Arnie, and they probably have more info on the calcium thing~~THE FLUOROQUINOLONE SYNDROME http://fqresearch.org/


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## gilly07

Dont worry about it T.were always looking for ideas to try I suppose it keeps hope alive!!Like you Id love to post some good news.What amount do you take a day? Gilly


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## Arnie W

I've received a reply from Kirkmans and they will ship internationally. I am awaiting another reply as I want some idea of shipping charges, so, that's good news.Gilly, I did look at that Biomedcafe site, but couldn't find any probiotics. There seemed to be information on certain products which were only available for practitioners. Are you able to post a link, please? Thanks.


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## gilly07

http://biomedcafe.com.au/index.php?process...amp;itemId=2336 arnie hope this is right


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## gilly07

Ive ordered and will be $Aus 7 delivery and I spoke to them to arrange delivery.Seemed fine.Gilly


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## Arnie W

Thanks, Gilly. Aren't you the detective! I've emailed them to see if they'll ship to NZ. Wouldn't it be nice to start it before Christmas?


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## Talissa

Gilly, I take one capsule each morning when I first wake up(30 mins b4 eating anything.) Ooh, I hope it helps!Arnie & JFR--My fingers are crossed for you guys too! T-


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## starwoman

Hi Talitha,I have tried many supplements, nothing has helped thus far.How long have you been on thie one Pro-Bio and has it really helped stop the diarrhea?I would like to know how I can purcachase it in australia. I know there is a place in Wauchope NSW Australia............that manufactures this product for animals.I would be pleased to hear more from you.Cheers,Carmen


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## Talissa

Hey Carmen, It's been about 10 months & it's hard to believe, very, but my stools are normalized now. If you read the first page of this post, you'll get more details.Wishing you the best of luck ag this beast!,Talissa


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## Arnie W

Carmen, gilly has given ordering details on post #27 of this thread. I'm hoping to get some sent from Queensland soon, but they were out of stock when I ordered.


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## 13931

Talissa - I have received my Probio and started taking it. I am wondering if you have noticed a difference if you take it with meals or not. I know it says on the bottle to take it with meals. I have had a couple of bad days so here's hoping this helps.Jean


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## Talissa

Hi Jean,Its nice to have a name for you, not just initials! (I'd thought you were a guy.







)Well, I just googled pro-bio because "pro-bio inulin free" by kirkman labs doesn't say to take w/ food & I found there's another probiotic out there w/ a similar name, probio, by a different co. It has Lactobacillus fermentum. Is this the one you ordered?If so, da**. But maybe it'll end up helping you & it'll be the best mistake ever. I hope!Here's a link to the makers of pro-bio IF: http://www.kirkmanlabs.com/products/probio...lin_404_90.htmlI'm so sorry about this,T-


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## 13931

Talissa - I thought I ordered the inulin free but what I have is the Probio gold. I am not sure who made the mistake, me spacing on the order or Kirkman sending it. Sigh... Worse things have happened. Maybe this stuff will work although inulin is one of those things I avoid. I try to be so careful.Jean


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## starwoman

Hi Arnie,Thanks for hat, but where do I find the ordering address as I do live in Queensland alredy..........I have tried so many probiotics, it would be a miracle if I found one to work.........I would appreciate it if you could give me the exact web site Arnie.Thanks,Carmen


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## Arnie W

The link in post 27 actually enables you to order. There is also Contact info there, as follows:http://biomedcafe.com.au/index.php?id=4524


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## Cillian

Hey Talissa I have been reading over this thread and decided to get some of the Pro-Bio Inulin free from Kirkman as well. I originally was thinking about getting some I-Flora since it was ranked one of the best by consumer Labs. But after doing some more reading I found that the Inulin free was the seller for me due to the fact that my Gastro thinks that I am Fructose Intolerant. It is supposed to be here tomorrow so we will see how it goes, I definatley think that it will help me even if it does not completley get rid of my IBS. BTW I have IBS C/D with lots of gas which I believe is caused by food not fully being digested and some food intolerance. I am glad I came across this site, I'll keep you guys posted how I'm doing.


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## starwoman

Thanks Gilley,Actually the factory where they make it is only about 5 miles from where I live, I contacted someone and they said I have to get a referral first though...........from a doctor or practitioner....damnCheers and merry xmas.Carmen


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## starwoman

Yes Gilly it is the right address for the Biomed cafe................however I just cant get them straight away as you have to have a practitioners referral.............Kind regards,Carmen


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## Talissa

Hi Cillian, I saw your post asking abt iFlora experiences...Like you, I researched probiotics & found that its considered one of the best. I took it for years. I think, maybe, it helped my overall health. It may have helped my GI tract, but not enough to notice, or notice when I finally switched probiotics.I didn't respond on your thread because it may help you even though it didn't help me. Didn't want to discourage you trying...I hope the pbif does help. It'll be interesting to see how it works for a C/D.Happy Holidays!!T-


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## Johnny D. and C.

Hi Talissa, thanks for posting this great news. I too had a remission, taking Udo's Choice Infant Blend Probiotics ...you are not alone! Udo's has four strains in common with what you took and probably easier to obtain. Those common strains are in my opinion the CURE! Thanks again Talissa and Happy Holidays you've given all of us a wonderful gift!


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## gilly07

starwoman,I live in Queensland too.My probiotics arrived within 4 days.I just ordered on the website, then rang to pay by credit card.No mention of practitioner.I would try again.Or is there a shop you can pick up from? Gilly ps they had a cold pack in with them.


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## starwoman

Thanks for that information Gilly............Can you let me know how they are working for you [email protected] will be monitoring this board each day............I hope that it works for you...Gilly.............Take care,Carmen


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## Arnie W

My probiotics arrived just before Christmas. My plan was to go off the tracks for a few days over Christmas and eat whatever I liked....then start a restricted diet and introduce the probiotics then. But then I thought I'd start straightaway as it might help with festive overindulgence. It is too early to say whether there have been improvements, especially with the junk I've been eating, but there are some signs that give me small glimmers of hope.Today the real diet began. No sugar, no wheat, no yeast. Further down the track, if there has not been much improvement, I'll cut out fruit and whey powder (which is about the only dairy I have.) Did you consciously cut out trigger food initially, Talissa? I reason that I might as well cut out food which give me grief and reintroduce them later. I know that you are now able to eat most of the food you want, but I imagine you might have been quite restrictive when you started out.I look forward to reading other posters' experiences and trust they are as dramatic as Talissa's.


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## Talissa

Arnie & Gilly, Here's to a New Year! You know what I hope for you guys--so much!Arnie, I didn't eat trigger foods for awhile after starting pbif...I guess I slowly started testing the waters after about 3 weeks of solid, normal stool. And I didn't lower the fiber intake for longer than that. I wish I could be more exact, but it will be a year ago Feb 16th...And I've been eating like a pig since I realized I could eat normally--so beware! It's been fun, eating all those things off limits for so long--amazingly fun. But now I have to start watching what I eat again! I've been really super bad over the hols too, Arnie. Yum. But I'm actually going to have to start eating a bit like my IBS days again to make sure my waist doesn't get too big! Not fair. But I shouldn't complain, eh? Could be worse--could be chronic D again.I noticed on the website it says for more intensive treatment, take two each day. Maybe if one a day doesn't help??I'll be waiting for your experiences w/ hopeful trepidation.Johnny--so glad you found your probiotic too. Thanks for sharing! I'm sure it will help others out there...Talissa


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## starwoman

It would be very interesting to know just what Talissa's regime was....and how long it did take before some positive changes appeared..........so tht Arnie would get a better idea,if it will work for him or not I guess.I would also like to know too Talissa, as I am thinking of trying it to, from the Biomedcafe, their have been so many I have tried that did not work at all, just waiting to hear more from Gilly07..........Cheers,Carmen


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## Talissa

Hi Carmen, As I said on the first page, it took 2 days to normalize my stool. Everyone's different, but that's what happened in my case. If you read the first page of this topic, you'll get a better picture. I've never gotten such a result from a probiotic before & I think I've tried all the big name ones(exc Align). I'm not selling it, I don't know if it will work for you or not, I wish I could guarantee it. I wish everyone could get back to their pre-IBS days. If you decide to try it, I hope it works for you. But if it doesn't, pls don't be upset with me. If everyone was afraid to tell their good resuts with something for fear that it wouldn't help others & they'd get upset, no one would ever share anything...You know?I understand your reluctance to try it. Just trust "your gut"







Tal


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## Arnie W

Thanks, Talissa.  That is why I was considering waiting until after Christmas. I've actually been taking 2 a day already. I've also been getting muscle testing for food intolerance from my chiropractor. What is really interesting is that I am getting a reaction from rice protein powder, so I'm going to eliminate that for the time being. I'll get tested for rice bread and rice flakes as well. Bad response from wheat/gluten/yeast too, as I knew it would be.Carmen, if I were you, I would just do it. We all have differing types of IBS and from different causes. What might not work for someone else could work for you. Same with the diet. You might not have to be as strict as me with your diet and you'll probably have different food intolerances. You are fortunate to be so close to the distribution centre. My shipping charges and fee for a bank draft were horrific. I didn't realise I could have paid by Visa. Good luck to you and to all of us.


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## starwoman

Hi Talissa,thanks so much for your reply.I have just arrived backing from the dispensary from picking my bottle up, just taken l capsule with water....so lets see eh?No most certainly I wont blame you if it doesnt work for me, but heres hopeiing that it does............Thanks so much for shareing your positive results and passing the information on Talissa.I will be forever grateful if it works for me.Happy New Year.Carmen


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## gilly07

Starwoman great you finally got them,fingers crossed.I think you need to stick with things like this for a month ot two,thats if you dont feel alot worse.i wont know for a while since it is my daughter who has IBS and she needs time off work to try since if they cause side effects its a problem at work etc.I myself have tried the B.infantis for mild bloating problems and found it to help after approx 6 weeks,but many probiotics cause us both great pain and bloating.Arnie sounds hopeful!! Good Luck.Happy New year to you all too.Im off to the beach now!!Aussie New Year tradition!! thanks Gilly


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## overitnow

I'm glad to hear this is getting a good trial. As with every shot in the dark, the more who try it the more who will find it effective. Especial good luck to Arnie and Carmen...Here's to Happy bowels in 2008 for all of you. (Come sit with me. I hate to drink alone.)Mark


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## starwoman

Yes, thanks for all your help Gilly07,and Marks good wishes as well.....this Pro Bio IF has 20 billion in a capsule, so its starting to look very promising...........I havent had any D.....yet...............fingers crossed.Hapy New Year..........Carmen


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## Talissa

Happy O8 Carmen & Joanna! Here's to Solidity! Anyone else with good news? Bad news?Re: bloating....I have to tell you, & you guys won't believe this, but I was actually desperate enough to get rid of my tennis elbow & carpal tunnel that I started drinking(like drinking a shot, real quick) apple cider vinegar & water(I take a 1/2 Tbsp mixed with about 1/4 cup water, 3xs/day)...Anyways, it's not only getting rid of my joint issues, but I'm also no longer bloated...Talk about a cheap fix! I've only been taking it about a week & I haven't felt even a twinge in my elbow & the carpal is barely noticeable now, just some light tingling now & then(it was waking me up at night.) I hope none of you get carpal tunnel, its very painful.... I'm hoping it will be completely gone like the D if I keep taking the ACV...I didn't actually know I was bloated, I thought I'd gotten a little belly from eating all the time now! But after starting the ACV, suddenly I have a nice flat belly. Who knew??? And now I can play tennis pain free, which is good because I play abt every day...You still ready for some tennis lessons Mark?? There's some really good personal experiences w/ ACV reported at earthclinic.com. If you're prone to acid relux, which it helps, you need to take the ACV with a bit of baking soda. They go into more detail at earthclinic....Hoping to hear some more good news!Love, Tal


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## 13931

I want to report moderate success using a 3 prong approach which includes strict dietary control, a fiber supplement and Kirkman's probiotic (I bought the Probio which is not inulin free but otherwise the same). I have strictly controlled my diet for several years, although I keep tweaking it. The fiber (heather's acacia and the Kirkman's probio are new additions although I have been eating homemade yogurt for several years as along with fermented foods that also provide good bacteria to the system) It has been 2 weeks since I had any d. That is the good news. My bowel function is not normalized but it seems to be moving in the direction of greater predictability and lesser severity of symptoms. I have been one of those mixed types, a little C a little D and everything in between, with the d having gotten much worse over the past year or 2. I am planning on sticking with what I am doing for 2 months and reassessing. Having dealt with ibs for 40 years (could it really be that long a time?) one thing I know for sure is that if you give up looking for solutions then things definitely will not get better. I have had periods of time when ibs was not a major problem but like a bad penny it always came back. My hope is that I am on the road to eradicating it for good or at least controlling it.Jean


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## Cillian

Wow thats funny I just got on here with the intent of posting a question about ACV but read this post before doing so. Thanks for responding to my previous post Talissa, my new question (I might as well ask it here) is now that I am taking the Pro Bio IF, would taking some ACV at the same time be a good thing as well or should I wait and let the probiotics kick in for a couple months before doing so? My Gastro informed me that I have reflux after doing an endoscopy on me. Basically do you guys think that the ACV might interfere with the probiotics or help them? thanks.


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## Talissa

C--Weird coincidence for sure...For me, I take the ACV w/ water before the 3 meals. Since starting this, I've changed to taking the Pro-Bio IF around 4 pm, 3 hours after lunch, 3 hours b4 dinner. I haven't noticed a problem. Maybe not having to strain as much, but that's abt it. I hope it helps your reflux--doesn't sound like much fun...T-J--Cautiously optimistic. That's good, esp the no D part. I hope you see continued overall improvement. I also hope you try the inulin free next time. Just in case that's the key....T-


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## Cillian

Cool I will try to stagger the two of them then, unfortunatley I bought the wrong stuff the other day and need to go out and get some UNpastureized instead. Btw it has only been a week so far on the probiotics but I have seen some signs of change, some positive and some negative. The negative would be that my bowel movements are not quite as good as they were and I seem to be slightly constipated. I can somewhat counteract them though by eating some high fiber foods. The positives seem to be outweighing the negatives in that I noticed that I can handle a little bit of dairy now and also I can drink a beer without feeling horrible for a couple days afterwards. I am going to stick to my guns here and keep eating as healthy as possible as well as taking the probiotics for a couple months before reflecting on how I am doing.


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## overitnow

Cillian--If you have a problem with the ACV, I can get you a bottle of the flavonoids I take to try out. It has knocked out all traces of indigestion/GERD in me for almost 10 years, now.Tal--Some day, when I have a little more time, I will send you a PM of the sociopath/undefeated UFC fighter/kozmik warrior/tree faller who cleared my land of all of the dangerous trees last winter, after our storm of the century ripped through here. I jokingly asked him if he could fix my long damaged, and beyond the arts of physios, rotator cuffs--he had also claimed he could do distance healing--and he waved his arms around from across the field. A month later, I was pressing and chucking 60 pound fir rounds (well, not very far--but I was doing it!) from out of the bush. When I commented my surprise, his response was "You just noticing that, now?" So, almost a year later, while forehand smashes are out of the question, I might be able to at least serve, again. And this is to be a "lesson," not "teach me a lesson." I'm an old man, you know.







Cheers,Mark


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## starwoman

Reporting progress.I am still going well, the Pro-Bio worked the lst day for me, but I am watching my diet, and drinking goats milk instead of coffee, it must be raw goats milk and unpasterised.I will be forever grateful for Talissa for telling us about these wonderful Prob-bio IF probiotics............they are magic, and I congratulate Mark (Overitnow} for never ceasing to offer encouragement to all of us and pass on his experiences as well.God health to all,Cheers,Carmen


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## Cillian

Thankyou Overitnow, I will try to pick some ACV up tomorrow and give it a shot. The funny thing is I would have never guessed that I have GERD before being told so, my syptoms are kinda hidden. I don't get heartburn from eating certain foods but I do get a pretty intense burning after doing intense physical activity. I also noticed that I have to swallow alot. I would rather snuff this out now if I can before it gets worse. Btw my chiropractor was the one who informed me about ACV, he said he heard that GERD could be caused by having too much of a bad kind of acid in the stomach. The ACV is supposed to balance everything out in there. I guess only time will tell how the ACV does along with the Probiotics, thanks for the info.


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## hopefulalways

Talissa,I havent posted on the bb for ages, got to the point of giving up. I've now become a great believer of supplements, particularly probiotics but the challenge has been which one to take because there are so many out there and one doesnt know what one needs and which are the real thing.Its so great to hear your good news and encouraging to know that its helped you so much after years of suffering, frustration and all that goes with it - I am so happy for you, its great to hear success stories.How long did it take before you noticed a difference? Did you find you got a bit worse before getting better?You sound like someone that does a lot of research before jumping into something, was there any particular thing about this product that made you choose this one?? (I like the fact that its inulin free, because that can cause lots of gas)Hope you dont mind all the questions - I'm so excited that you're doint so well


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## Talissa

Hi Hopeful,I love your "name". I've been an amateur student of microflora for a few years now. What I liked about the Pro-Bio IF was that all 6 strains of probiotics in it have been shown in studies to reduce intestinal inflammation. 2 have specifically helped diarrhea--l. casei & l bulgaricus. 5 of the strains are also exopolysaccharide-producing strains, which have been shown to ameliorate simulated IBD...I have all the studies, but I tend to get in trouble for posting too many links, & if you go to pubmed & search, you can find them all there...Also, I am going through a major life thing, seperating, moving back to my home country--the states, so I probably won't be posting for a while. I'm glad I posted the info on Pro-Bio when I did, & I'm thrilled that its helping others. Glad it just wan't some fluke that it helped me--with others being helped also, it just feels good!Oh, as I said on the first page, it only took 2 days to work for me, but I was already controlling the diarrhea pretty well at that time. It might take someone else longer. I've tried many, many, many other probiotics. Nothing has made such a drastic difference. I'm still amazed by it & so grateful to Kirkman Labs. Even through this stressful time, & pms'g, I'm staying solid. Amazing...I -hope- if you try it, it helps you too.Wish me luck guys, I'm going to realLy, really need it.TalGOOD LUCK EVERYONE!! LOVE YA!


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## hopefulalways

Tal,Thanks so much for writing. I'm so sorry you're going through such a rough time - separation, moving back etc. - thats all major stress but you'll get through it - we're behind you and hopefully you'll become stronger inspite of all this. Try to look at this as a temporary setback and there has to be something better on the other side. Good luck and be strong.Its so good to hear that you'r doing so well even with all the stress. It shows that its not stress that causes problems, it just makes problems worse usually, and that applies to any illness or pain.I'm also greatful that Kirkman Labs has helped. I wonder if it just helps with D or if people with C and D and C could benefit? It might just balance out things because there are so many strains. Kirkman labs have other products like Colostrum and if all there products are as good as their probiotics perhaps it may be a good idea to consider another that may compliments the probio.You sound just like me with research and overanilizing products but thats a good thing because there's a lot of junk out there, but I'm glad you found this one. Do or did you have problems with pain too?Anyway goodluck with your transition, I'll be thinking of you and please post when you can, its important to keep connected.Tons of luck, good wishes and no more tummy problems.


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## overitnow

Tal,I am so sorry to hear of the changes sweeping through. I know we cannot hold onto anything; but it is always difficult to be reminded of that.Hang tight, my friend; and if you end up on the northern part of the Wet Coast, maybe we can still get together for a coffee sometime.Mark


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## Arnie W

I'm so sorry to hear that, Tal. You are very much like family and it is sad to know that you are having these upheavals in your life. I do wish you well for the future.Your postings are always informative and well-researched and I hope that you will be back with us in time. Thankyou for all your contributions over the years.


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## hopefulalways

I've been meaning to ask the same question, if the Pro-Bio can cause worse symptoms initially, like gas and pain? The thought of having more pain really scares me but if its a means to an end then its worth it.Has anyone taken this probiotic for constipation or altering constipation/diarrhea?I may have missed some postings but it seems most people posting are having problems with Diarrhea. How has it helped with predominant pain issues - anyone know? (I hope that question doesnt sound stupid?!)


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## 14473

Hi allI also live in Queensland so I thought I would give these probiotics a go. I really like that they are not horse tablets like some of the other ones out there. I have been on them for 4-5 days, I try to take one in the morning and night before food. I have had variable results with at least some normal bowel movements ( I thought I had forgotten what that was like) BUT also I have been waking up in the morning with a fair whack of gas, So much that my upper abdomen region hurts to touch. Today wasn't a great day either with a little loose stools.I am going to keep going with it and see how it goes. Fingers crossed for me! Will post either way!


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## 13931

I have ibs alternating c and d. I am having increasing success using a 3 prong approach. The backbone of what I do is dietary. The simplest way to describe how I eat is that it is an entirely sugar free, additive free, real food diet with limited grains (only brown rice), limited dairy (only yogurt I prepare myself using the 24 hour scd fermentation technique), mostly meat and veggies with a little bit of fruit. Unlike what most people on this forum state, fat does not seem to be a problem for me. Going with my real food approach the only fats I use are cultured butter, coconut oil and extra virgin olive oil. I also make homemade chicken broth and have a cup every day. The second prong of my approach is fiber. I am using Heather's acacia fiber, slowly increasing the amount every few days. I am up to 1.5 tbs daily. The third prong is Kirkman's Probio. I meant to buy the inulin free but somehow messed up and got the Probio that contains inulin. It has the same range of bacteria as the inulin free. My system does seem to be normalizing. I am having a lot of gas but I think that is improving and it is not really causing pain, just annoying. I have had almost no d for several weeks now, just one very brief bout a few days ago. This morning was the most normal yet. I guess there is a 4th prong to my approach, which is patience. I see myself as trying to rebalance my system so that it has what it needs to work properly, a process, if I am correct about things, that will take time. I make no claims to the universality of this approach, nor do I profess to know exactly why it seems to be working. I have my theories but in the final analysis if it continues to be successful for me, I will continue following it. I am happy to talk more about any of this with anyone, including the names of the books I have read that have most influenced my dietary choices (I have been following one version or other of this diet for several years). The jury is still out but I am hopeful.Jean


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## starwoman

Hi Jacko,I live in Queensland and have had D for over 40 years, and the Pro-Bio IF helped me straight away...........I am on a no sugar or sweet food diet too.Cheers,Carmen


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## Cillian

Hey everyone just checking in with some good news, I have been taking the Pro Bio IF for two weeks now and am happy to say that good things are starting to happen. My food intolerances are slowly going away, my noisy stomach is now ALOT quieter, my bowel movements are getting better and I do not get nearly as much gas. I still eat pretty healthy and make sure that I eat some fruit and veggies every night before going to bed but I tried a beer the other night and felt fine after it. This is coming from the guy who after just ONE beer lately would feel horrible for about 3 days afterwards. I am not going to get too excited yet but it looks promising, even my saliva has changed in consistency. BTW I am a IBS C/D/gas type for the record.


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## beach_bowel

Hi,On a bit of luck, I just stumbled across this thread and have read with interest about Talissa's success with "Pro-Bio Inulin Free." I'm extremely happy for her and for others who are seeing benefits using this supplement. Before deciding to try it myself, I'd like to find out more about potential side effects or adverse consequences with ingesting the probiotics (and their corresponding quantities) that Pro Bio contains. While I'm familiar with acidophilus, I'm less familiar with the other ingredients listed. I started to look into L. Rhamnosus and discovered a link on Wikipedia's entry to an article suggesting that L. Rhamnosus may lead to endocarditis in "certain circumstances." I then looked at the referenced article and realized it would be difficult for me (given my limited medical knowledge) to use the article as a basis for informing my decision to take a supplement in the dosage contained in the Kirkman product. So does anyone have information on the potential adverse effects (short and/or long term) of the probiotics (and their corresponding dosages) contained in Pro-Bio? Please don't take this request as an attempt to rain on the parade of those who are having success with this supplement. Perhaps I am just more risk-averse or am less informed about these probiotics than others on the list. Best regards,Matt


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## hopefulalways

Jacko2,Sorry you're having a challenging time with the new probiotic but keep going. Sometimes one can have a bit of gas and discomfort and strange things happening initially, but they say that only happens the first few days until your system balances out. This is an tempting time to stop taking it but please dont - it'll start getting better over the next few days.Please keep posting with your progress - and believe and vizualise it getting better.Are you more D or C or both?


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## hopefulalways

Has anyone taken the Probio to help with constipation (and tons of pain)?


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## gilly07

beach bowel,I think with the side effects they are referring to cases where people who are immunocompromised ( possibly on chemotherapy etc) are at risk of contracting an infection from the bacteria in the probiotics.I think its very rare.Perhaps check with a doctor for your own case? Ps everyone still nothing to report on probio will let you know anything positive soon Gilly


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## jdmorlock

Hi Everyone!! Quick rundown for you! I have IBS-D which of course only seems to give me a horrid time during the week in the mornings. On the weekends I seem not bad. I take "Linda's Calcium" approach 3x/day and immodium in the mornings and before bed. I am up to about 3 immodium in the morning. I don't want it to eventually not work for me at all. I cut out eating and coffee first thing in the morning too and that helped for a matter of a couple of days. I realize stress doesn't help but when I am in a rush in the morning or have to be out of the house by a certain time it seems like the stress is on.I also started Mark's Provex CV method and am not noticing anything yet however it has only been a couple of weeks. One thing I worry about with this is with natural products or herbal varieties I don't know what will mix with certain things and what won't. I agree that we probably need a Probiotic to replace the good bacteria which probably has been gone for a very long time and I have tried some as well which I never noticed a thing.My questions are these: Do you go cold turkey and only take this Probiotic or do I continue with the calcium and immodium until my system gets this probiotic into it or what? What about the provex cv? Do I keep taking this? I am soooo confused. I never want to take more than I have to.Any input would be great. Thank you all so much.


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## overitnow

I think it may make most sense to add one thing at a time and evaluate. When I add the daily fiber mix to the Provex my stools get much more compact--this doesn't happen with just Bran Buds, as an example. I found that I would go C when I added Caltrate to the flavonoids. In the case of the Provex, it certainly mixes well with both the cal/mag in their supplements along with an acidophillus/bifidus probiotic they make. So I wouldn't expect this to create any problems from mixing them. Just a difficulty in determining what you are getting from what. (A couple of different daily packs includes all of them, along with a general vitamin and mineral and a phytosterol/omega 3 blend for cholesterol non-absorption.)Does that help?Mark


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## jdmorlock

Hi,Yes it does, thank you very much for the input! I hope I have as good of luck as some of you.Thanks again.


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## starwoman

Hi Matt,I have been taking Pro-Bio IF for 3 weeks, and I would like to say I have had no negative or adverse affects from using this probiotic and it is the only Probiotic that has helped my with the D. I highly recomend this product.Cheers,Carmen


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## sunspot19

Starwoman--Curious, can you tell me what other probiotics you have previously attempted.Currently I am trying out VSL#3 (can't do this long term but at least for a bit I wanted to see if it helps given its massive dose of bacteria), Udo's Choice (Super 8) and Metagenics Ultra Flora DF (capsules).I have also tried Florastor with no real results, and a couple of other brands with no perceptible help.As far as my current concoction goes, can't be certain - certainly not a 1 day cure like what you appear to be experiencing, though I do feel at times as if I might be getting better but who knows - could be all in my head!Sunspot


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## Arnie W

I'm afraid that I seem to be cruising along with nothing of note to report. I imagine that you have the same story, gilly, otherwise you would have reported good news by now. I have been using the product for about 3 weeks.I certainly believe that this product works.....but, at this time is not helping me. Everything I have ever taken which has helped people with D has not done anything for me. You would think that a supplement for D would help someone without D, but with frequent bms every day. So, while I reaffirm that it will work for people with a particular type of IBS and should be trialled, the makeup of this supplement might not be appropriate to tackle the source of my digestive problems. You don't take immodium for a headache and if my bacteria is not the cause, a probiotic is possibly not what I need and maybe I need to trial something else - ie, if I can find something I have not yet already used.I'm thrilled that Tal and Carmen have benefitted and hopefully many more will. I would not want to discourage anyone from trying it, especially those with D, but I know that people would want to be informed of my progress and I need to be honest about this. I am still positive, though, and will continue to use the 2 containers I bought and, coupled with a strict diet, hope to get more favourable results.


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## 23352

I"ve been having a really hard time lately and nothing is working so I will try this. I just had someone tell me that you should take probiotics before you go to bed. This way they will lay in your intestines all night and really have a chance to work before everything gets going again in the morning. Has anyone else heard of this? And if so, does it seem to make a difference??


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## 14473

Hi againI also have been taking the probiotics for a couple of weeks and unfortunately no major difference for me. I seem to alternate between D and C so it is hard to find anything that really helps me.I will however keep it up and finish my packet - it can't do any harm and maybe for me it might take a lot longer.As Arnie says it definately could work for some and HAS so its worth a try.As for the night time or day time probiotic .... I think that is an interesting theory but my feeling it wouldn't make any difference at all - but hey its worth a try!Does anyone here know the implications of immodium?? Is it bad to take every morning?? I had to use it a little over christmas after a dose of antibiotics that stuffed my system around .. and some of these days I felt really good - very little gas and no loose stools. I tried one again today and felt pretty good except for feeling very out of it.anyone here praise immodium???


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## sunspot19

JackoFunny you ask this, as I similarly had an infection for which I had to take antibiotics which threw my system completely out of whack (though before I felt I was under control with colestid). Making it worse I had to travel abroad to Germany. I ended up on immodium for a few days and the results were wonderful. I took it for a few days but then stopped again because I have fears of long term use, especially if my problem is something related to infection which the immodium makes worse.I read of a lot of people using immodium for years on these forums. Be curious to see what other responses are but I don't think other than things like priobios, vitamins, etc., that you should necessarily take something like immodium for too long a period. But then again, what do I know - it has been tempting at times given my D symptoms since the summer!


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## Cillian

Update: My results were awesome about 12 days ago, I did not have hardly any gas, my food intolerances were going away and my stools were the biggest and most complete they have been since I can remember. However unfortunately about one week ago I started to see all the good signs slowly dissapearing. The first noticeable sign was that my stool which was coming out very well formed and light brown in color, suddenly was 90 % well formed and then at the end was a darker color and looser. It has been down hill since then and my stools are only about 1/4 the size they were, also I have alot more gas and my stomache is gurgling. Like I mentioned before when things were going well my saliva seemed to be thicker in consistancey and now it is just as thin and plentiful as always. I didn't really do anything different that I can think of except that i was drinking some Propel's and possibly the Sucralose in them did not agree with me. I am sticking to things with only glucose/dextrose in them for now to see if that could be what caused the decline.


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## hopefulalways

There are so many school of thoughts about when best to take probiotics. I think it also depends on the type taking and how resistant it is to acid in the body. Probiotics like Kirman ProBio Gold and Theralac (that I know of) seem to have a high resistance. I've heard a lot of people say taking them at bedtime helps them to work more effectively. Sometimes that may not be too far away from food, and there's the concern for those of us taking sleeping meds - how long does one wait between the meds and the probiotics?The trial and error thing is so difficult because there's so many different things we do from day to day and its hard to tell what effects what.


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## hopefulalways

Cillian,It sounds like you've been reacting to the Sucralose - I find it messes up my stomach a lot. They say its made from sugar but has a different molecular structure which not everyone's system responds to too well. Let us know how you do once you stop drinking that stuff with Sucralose - I hope you continue doing as well as you did before you had the sucralose. Which probiotics are you on?


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## Mistral

Cillian said:


> Update: My results were awesome about 12 days ago, I did not have hardly any gas, my food intolerances were going away and my stools were the biggest and most complete they have been since I can remember. However unfortunately about one week ago I started to see all the good signs slowly dissapearing. The first noticeable sign was that my stool which was coming out very well formed and light brown in color, suddenly was 90 % well formed and then at the end was a darker color and looser. It has been down hill since then and my stools are only about 1/4 the size they were, also I have alot more gas and my stomache is gurgling. Like I mentioned before when things were going well my saliva seemed to be thicker in consistancey and now it is just as thin and plentiful as always. I didn't really do anything different that I can think of except that i was drinking some Propel's and possibly the Sucralose in them did not agree with me. I am sticking to things with only glucose/dextrose in them for now to see if that could be what caused the decline.


Cillian -Try some iodine. That got things going for me again. Make sure it is something meant for internal use like Lugol's or Iodoral. Vitamin Shoppe has Iodine drops from kelp. Iodine is an oxidizer... take it in the morning, not at night.


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## hopefulalways

Please excuse my ignorance, what is an oxidizer and how does iodine help. I've always associated kelp, which I believe is high in iodine, as something that can cause a lot of gas. I would love to know the benefits of the products you mentioned, from a personal perspective. Sorry, I'm so new at this and battling with pain, D & C, with PAIN being the biggest issue (post abdominal surgery)Cillian,How are you doing- is "no news good news"? Hope you are feeling a lot better ... been thinking about you.


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## Mistral

hopefulalways said:


> Please excuse my ignorance, what is an oxidizer and how does iodine help. I've always associated kelp, which I believe is high in iodine, as something that can cause a lot of gas. I would love to know the benefits of the products you mentioned, from a personal perspective. Sorry, I'm so new at this and battling with pain, D & C, with PAIN being the biggest issue (post abdominal surgery)Cillian,How are you doing- is "no news good news"? Hope you are feeling a lot better ... been thinking about you.


Well, I would say that "oxidizing" means increasing the level of oxygen in your blood, except that it is probably more accurate to say it *decreases *the level of carbon dioxide in your blood. To me it feels like I'm overcharged; almost hyperventilating. I'm trying to research how iodine is involved, but still don't know. Some sites say iodine catalyzes the conversion of hydrogen peroxide to water, but I've also seen some say hydrogen peroxide catalyzes the conversion of iodine to iodide. And then there are sites that say iron catalyzes the iodine/hydrogen peroxide reaction. So who knows. All I know is the combination of probiotics and iodine has my intestines moving again. Lactoferrin (a iron-transfer protein) and iodine are both necessary for mucous generating cells, including those in the intestine. Lactoferrin is a very interesting protein which seems to be involved in histamine regulation, fluid viscosity, motility, immunity/antibodies, and is antibacterial to some organisms. Lactoferrin is also an antioxidant. Iodine itself is also antibacterial, so the relationship may also be important for that reason.


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## Cillian

Hopeful- ya I hope that it was the sucralose messing things up(I am taking the Pro Bio IF btw), my gastro believes that I am fructose intolerant which not only means avoid fructose but ALOT of other sugars and sugar substitutes as well. I did a little reading on sucralose and found that is is very close to sucrose(which is plain table sugar and safe for me), the problem is that with sucralose, the glucose and fructose are seperated, and with sucrose they are bonded together. Being bonded together helps with the absorption of the fructose so without the bond it doesn't get absorbed and then is able to reek havoc in my system lol. I will give it a couple days and see how I feel.Mistral- thanks for the info, I am not sure if I can have Iodine however. When my doc did a blood allergy test on me it came up with me being slightly allergic to scallop which I was told means that I would also be allergic to iodine.Btw I was feeling better this morning, I had more engergy was able to think clearer and my stool seemed a tiny bit better. I want to give it more time though as I am still a ways away from how I was feeling a couple weeks ago. Thanks.


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## Mistral

Glad to hear you are feeling better! Might be fructose intolerance just as you suspected.


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## starwoman

Actually Pro-Bio IF is not working as well as it first was, so I think I will try their new super one in a few weeks...... I have tried Floraq Max, Inner Health, many others but havent had complete relief I thought I would have had it by now with the Pro Bio IF but its not working as well as it first was.


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## sunspot19

I would not give up that easy on it if you saw great results initially. Just curious, after you started taking the pro biotics, did you ever consult with a doctor after that to discuss the results and what that meant?For instance, has anyone who has been helped greatly by probiotics tried to ascertain whether or not the reason it helped is it has displaced "bad" bacteria either completely or temporarily?Starwoman, for instance, if the probios you took essentially shocked the bad bacteria in your gut for a while, and now they have slowly started fighting back, perhaps this is indicative not that the probios don't work, but that you need it in combination with some other therapy to smash the bad cultures in your gut?I am just curious. Seems to me there are a lot of people helped initially, but where the help wears off after a while. It just seems as if there is some sort of battle going on and the question is whether you want to maximize efficiency of the pro bios by stunning the bad guys in there at the same time.This of course is presuming the reason the probios work because of bacterial overgrowth or something similar.Just curious if anyone has any thoughts here or has consulted with a doctor on the subject.


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## 13931

I do not think that there are any reliable tests to determine the levels of probiotic bacteria. The CDSA (comprehensive digestive stool analysis) from Genova Diagnostics (formerly Great Smokies Lab) measures some probiotic levels but I do not know if the results are either valid or reliable. What is not known about probiotics and health far exceeds what is known. My sense is that in using probiotic supplements the best gauge of their effectiveness is whether they improve your health.I have seen quite a lot of improvement by taking Kirkman's Bio-Gold (not the inulin free variety), Heather's acacia fiber (1 tbs twice a day), digestive enzymes (Digest Gold) with every meal and a very careful diet that eliminates all grains except for brown rice, all dairy except for yogurt that I make myself, and all sugars and artificial sweeteners, eating only "real foods", that have no additives of any sort. I can not say that my intestinal function is ideal but I am not having the d and urgency that I was having. I made it through a long morning dental appointment without any trouble, something that didn't seem possible before I started this regimen. My dietary changes are not new but the probiotic and the fiber and the enzymes are. I am keeping my fingers crossed.One thing that I believe is important is patience. I believe that we are conditioned to expect fast results from most western medical treatments. Dietary changes along with the addition of probiotics might be a much slower process and have ups and downs along the way. Certainly they can't hurt beyond their financial cost so sticking with them for a while seems to me to be a good idea if you can afford it.I don't assume that what works for me will work for everyone else. I just wanted to add my present experience to the discussion. Another thing I have found very useful, and this I believe does apply to everyone, is to try to remain relaxed about it all. The reality of the situation is that I suffer from ibs. I have suffered from ibs for 40 years, sometimes worse sometimes better, so I might as well just accept it and stay calm, trying to figure out how best to control it. It may not be fair, but it is my life and I try to make acceptance of that fact the ground from which I work.Jean


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## starwoman

I really dont know why it hsd not continued to work for me, bu t I sm going to swap over to the Super Gold next week, see if that makes difference.I read somewhee thwt wa lack of blood to the bowel due to poor immune respnse could be responsible, and we should use Viagra.........to increase the blood supply.I have always had bad circulation so much so that they have trouble taking blod out of my arm.What does anyone think?cheers,Starwoman


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## overitnow

I can only reiterate that if you think you are having circulatory problems, you should give the Provex CV a shot. If that is the source of your problems, it should solve them.Mark


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## Cillian

Just checking in again, I am doing better than I was last time I posted in here. I have been avoiding Fructose, Sucralose...etc, and I am now even able to get up earlier in the morning without feeling horrible. I always drink alot of water throughout the day but I started drinking bottled water instead of out of the drinking fountain. I am still taking the Pro Bio IF and I believe it is helping to keep me on a somewhat regular schedule. They defininatley tend to make you constipated though, especially for the first month or so. I make sure to get lots of water, don't oversleep, eat my veggies and fruit before bed and try to stay positive. It has only been about 2 months now since I started taking the Pro Bio IF and I will continue to do so due to the positive results that I am seeing (knock on wood).


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## Johnny D. and C.

For anyone taking Pro Bio IF and not recovering, please consider opening the capsules and taking them with 1/2 cup of spring water. I believe the IBS problem is in the Duodenum, first part of small intestine right after the stomach. The part most affected by broad spectrum antibiotics. If you take them in capsule form on empty stomach with more than 1/2 glass of water, they will wash right past where they are needed! And eat lots of garlic, kills bad guys and feeds good guys. Just my opinion. Glad to see some are recovering, wish there were more!


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## sunspot19

Hi.You indicated earlier you had remission taking the Udo's infant blend. Does that mean you stopped taking the probios after you got to that stage, or to keep yourself in remission are you still taking it?Have you tried to stop to see what happens?Thanks! Just curious.I am currently taking a concoction of probios, including VSL in powder form and then a few others in capsule form. I figure taking a broad range should not hurt and so far I feel as if it is helping, but probably too soon to tell. Certainly was not overnight the way some people suggest here - has been progress over a period of time (with little setbacks here and there).


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## 13931

I continue to take the Probio along with strict dietary control and acacia fiber. I also eat my homemade yogurt daily and have miso soup several times a week, another fermented probiotic containing food. It isn't a cure all but things are certainly better. I believe patience is a critical factor in figuring out what works and what doesn't.Jean


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## Johnny D. and C.

Hi sunspot19 Basically I took two bottles and then ran out. I tried Udo's children's blend and later super potency adult blend, which has eight strains effective against yeast. Infant blend was the best. The odd Diarrhea now, I think is from excessive wine consumption and or eating leftovers from the fridge, that have been lying around too long. My only symptoms are occasional gas and a dull pain in the middle of my waist area. The pain is from smoking. I tried the nicorette gum and my guts were immediately assaulted with intense pain. The small bowel needs lots of oxygen. Someone mentioned in a post that the small bowel flora is aerobic (needs oxygen), while the large bowel flora is anaerobic ( doesn't need oxygen). Nicotine constricts blood vessels and I guess the pain is the body's way of saying...stop smoking. Hope that answers your question. From daily D to the odd time D. Since I stopped taking probiotics, I've been taking Activia from Danone and Yoptimal from Yoplait. These are both very good products. Since responding to your post I looked up the ingredients in Udo's Infant Blend and compared them to Talissa's Pro-Bio IF. They are mostly the same as I have mentioned in the past. Except the predominant strains are different L Rhamous in one and L Casei in the other, also Pro-Bio has much more billions of bacteria. They both have approx. the same amount of L casei! I just don't like capsule form, I'll take powder any day. Why the capsules anyway, it's not in the empty stomach long enough to kill them and I think capsules wash right past where they're needed. Hope that answers your question. Hi JFR Why not make your yogurt with the strains in Pro-Bio or Udo's Infant....then you know you would be getting live healthy cultures, that have been shown to be helpful, to other board members. Personally I think L casei is the one to get and I saw a commercial by Danone for Actimel, a yogurt drink, which I'll be buying soon. Especially the coconut version, yeast doesn't like coconut, it kills it. Next time you crave chocolate, try the bar with the coconut filling and you'll probably notice like me, you'll feel great, no terrible side effects after eating this extremely sugary treat! And that was before, when I was quite sick with IBS. I've yakked on long enough, I'm a real know it all now. Never wanted to learn so much about such an unsavory topic. Good luck to all!


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## sunspot19

Thanks for your reply!After a miserable Christmas where I had come down with a bacterial infection/flu like symptoms, been put on Ceftin, and then started to have horrible diarrhea (all the while having to travel to Europe - *ugh*) I had thought I'd been controlling with cholestyramine, I decided to take matters in my own hand and heavily use probiotics. I also stopped the cholestyramine which I thought may be masking issues but certainly was just providing no 'cure', just control (if even that).In my case since the middle of January I have been doing both VSL (powder form) twice daily, plus a concoction of various capsule based probiotics such as metagenics ultra flora, Udo's super 8, culturelle, Kirman's Pro-Bio and finally florastor. I know, quite a crazy mix. I also drink Kefir a couple of times a day (Lifeway) and eat goat's yoghurt. I always found that the Kefir and yoghurt was well received by me and was digested w/o problem although I was supposidly highly lactose intolerant (diagnosed in conjunction with the start of my diarrhea).Things have been going well, and I am hoping that between the paramomycin and then my heavy probio regimen that I am not just keeping bad bugs in check, but perhaps giving my body a reprieve to build back up its gut defenses. Would love to think in a few months I will be able to slow down my probio consumption to half and just enjoy life and food again!Interesting to hear that you seemed to have rebalanced your gut in your case. I have hope!Plus, I really don't want to take cholestyramine the rest of my life if what I have is not a true bile acid problem (which at one point I suspected).


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## Johnny D. and C.

Hi Sunspot19. I've tried some of the probiotics you mention and no real results, that I could see. By accident and possible overdose of two/three tablespoons of Udo's Infant Blend in one go....I started noticing a significant improvement in D... within days I no longer had D. Infant blend is like the first guys to colonize your small intestine....broad spectrum antibiotics kill off good bacteria and create waste zones...you need the infant strains to colonize these areas...then add children and or adult strains. It's like this you wouldn't drop Dr's, Lawyers, Tax men, Politicians (adult probiotics) into the wild west, in the middle of the prairies back in the time when Indians ruled the land (though I imagine there are some of us who would like to see that happen, me included), just kidding, no you send ranchers and farmers(infant probiotics)..to get slaughtered...mmm maybe not such a good analogy. Did I mention how sticky infant blend is..it sticks to the glass, the spoon, my teeth and I believe my intestinal walls. Sticks right where it's needed. Two days ago I had greasy chicken wings and french fries and some spicy tortea sp thing and next day no D, normal bowel movements. Today fried chicken, so I'll see how that goes. Still terrified to try lettuce though. Just glad to be able to help others, maybe help someone through this.ps As far as bile acid problem....it's the body's way of removing bad guys. Read up about H-pylori and how the body produces bile acid four times the strength in order to burn away Hp... and that's pushed up through the bottom valve of the stomach and even as high up as the throat GERD. So if you have a problem with bad guys in the small intestine the body puts this bile down there as well. Bile is an emulsifier sp disolver... breaks down fat...hence diarrhea loose stools. That's how I see it anyway. Hope this helps! pss If you have house plants, you might want to loan them to friends and see if you feel better in their absence. Mold spores is something I'm wondering about. All the best!


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## sunspot19

Well, unfortunately (as usual knock on wood), this morning wasn't so great. After about a week of great success I had diarrhea pretty badly (although the first movement was fantastic yet again).I am still going to keep on my regimen, and maybe cut out coffee which I had in the morning (had been avoiding it but felt so secure I decided to damn the torpedoes).I also didn't get enough sleep last night and I wonder if this is part of my problem too.


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## Johnny D. and C.

Here's an update Sunspot19 I too was having normal bm first thing in the morning then later in the day a more soft or watery bm almost D. This was a week or two after I finished up probiotics. I put the second watery stool down to excess wine consumption, since when I cut back on wine bms more normal. But since taking Activia from Danone, Yoptimal from Yoplait and Actimel (yogurt drink with L casei) I'm not having that second watery stool, just a normal one, without changing my drinking habits. In the past I ate tons of Activia and it didn't help me as much as Udos infant...Last week I bought and consumed a carton of Yoptimal and on Monday I had one Actimel just before the greasy fries and chicken wings to coat my duodenum and I have not had D since. Yesterday I had Col Sanders, four legs, one thigh, fries and small gravy. Normal bm earlier today and no bowel movement since. To be fair though yesterday I had consumed lots of Activia during the day, pre Col Sanders. If you'll be eating something greasy, eat some of these yogurts first. I think either Yoptimal or the Actimel is responsible for this success. With L casei being the only probiotic in Actimel and L casei being the major component of Udo's Infant Blend, I plan to pick up more! I have read a post on here were someone found that coffee(caffeine) does speed up transit time of bms and can result in D. Best of luck! Sunspot


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## sunspot19

I suspect the real issue may be that if your problem stems from an imbalance in your flora to an extreme, then probably it just takes your gut a while to get back to full health (if ever). Probably dictates just being careful the first few months even if you see your symptoms getting better.At least that is my hope. Sounds like I am doing a longer program on these probios than you did. I have decided to go with my massive program for the next six months or so and see if this just stabilizes me.I am using Kefir which has a great mix of probios plus eating yoghurt. I tried acimal (Danon Active here in the states) and I didn't really think it did much for me.Also when I tried the Danon yoghurt, I thought it created more problems for me, but I could try them again and see...One thing I found amusingly is that the Actimel in europe (in Germany anyway) was far less sweet and much nicer than the Danon Active here. I suspect they have added much more sugar in the US which I think is really too bad.I just so love my morning coffee, but I have had to all but give it up for now. I am doing peppermint tea instead which although quite nice, still doesn't fully replace my yearning for a nice cup or espresso first thing. Oh well, such is life!


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## Johnny D. and C.

Bad news several soft bms followed by D! I pushed my luck too much. Going back to a grease free diet and will continue with the yogurts previously mentioned, especially the Actimel. My apologies to everyone who got their hopes up. I should have waited longer before wading in. Sunspot wrote: "I suspect the real issue may be that if your problem stems from an imbalance in your flora to an extreme, then probably it just takes your gut a while to get back to full health (if ever). Probably dictates just being careful the first few months even if you see your symptoms getting better." Very good advice. I'll take it slow from now on. Thanks all and I'll catch up with you guys later.


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## overitnow

Johnny D. and C. said:


> I'll take it slow from now on. Thanks all and I'll catch up with you guys later.


No problem, Johnny. We all fall into that trap when we see significant improvement. I was a complete year in recovery for similar reasons. When I read about the Col Sanders, I cringed. Best not to return to the habits that got us here in the first place. Once you are stable enough, long enough, then add things back in moderation. Your body will handle it better.Mark


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## Johnny D. and C.

Thanks very much for the support Mark! Although I know Col Sanders chicken is something to avoid, I'm not positive that brought on the D. Normally in the past, it would for me the very next day! But yesterday I was fine, when I should of had the dreaded D. Last night I picked up wine other than the brand I usually drink, my brand was sold out ( I may have contributed to that). The cork on the wine I got smelled moldy and when I tasted the wine it seemed OK. But after downing the second small mouthful I decided, this doesn't taste right at all and emptied it into the sink. I think this is why I had the D! So I'm going to finish up the yogurts in my fridge and next Tuesday I'm going back to the Col Sanders for a rematch! I'm actually cringing myself thinking about it. I only intended to get a three piece and fries and small gravy. They ended up giving me more chicken...long story. Don't try and talk me out of it, unless you're prepared to pry the drumsticks out of my dying hands! Thanks again, see you guys in a week. Johnny







wow.....not a single spelling mistake! Things are looking better already!


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## sunspot19

Still be careful! The one doctor I really trust and has sage advice warned me after I started to feel better that the most important thing over the next few months is to let my gut rest and get better, that it is always being forced to work and thus doesn't get to heal in the way other organs might.You should eat simple foods, no nuts, nothing spicy, etc., and just let time do its job...Anyway, I have not properly listened to that advice myself. Yesterday I went to a health food store and couldn't stop myself from buying some prepackaged noodles that ended up being a bit on the spicey side. Since I normally have no trouble with pasta I ate the whole thing.By the next morning, I am now regretting that decision, having had a terrible morning of diarrhea (not even the one good BM I usually have first thing). I am sure I am taking a step back here.So back to peppermint tea, oatmeal, simple rice and pasta, etc., for me for a while!Good grief, what a complete pain in the neck. I should have known something was up because last night I had some bad tummy pain which I NEVER have. That suggests my body was really rejecting what I ate.Such a bummer because I have had such nice success so far in the mornings for the past week.


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## Johnny D. and C.

Thanks for the advice Sunspot!







Here's a url for DanActive with the L casei probiotic. DanActive demo http://www.danactive.com/danactive_how_flash_ani.html this link doesn't seem to work so maybe the shorter version check out the demos....http://www.danactive.com/ Sorry folks not sure why urls isn't working. You could try a Google search using DanActive and get the site and see the demos then.


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## sunspot19

I actually have been using a Kefir drink instead which I think is a bit more robust. It is made by Lifeway (although yesterday given my reversion in state I stayed away from any sort of milk drink that day).Today I'll probably try the Kefir again. I did use DanActive for a bit but it really didn't seem to help out at all. It was also extremely sweet. I think probably too sweet!


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## sunspot19

Well, I broke down this morning. Since having those spicey noodles on Friday I just have been having pretty bad diarrhea and I don't appear to be recovering for the last 3 days. So I started taking cholestyramine this morning.Hopefully this helps. Was what was controlling things previously, so perhaps after a couple of weeks, continuing on probiotics, I can quit it again once things stabilize. What a sad result. But I just can't continue to function without having this calmed down.Sigh.


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## Johnny D. and C.

I've made a mistake! Yoptimel, Actimel, I got them mixed up! I haven't tried Actimel (Danactive) I went back to the store, where you see a wall of yogurts and discovered it was Yoptimel I had bought previously. So I'm very sorry to everyone for promoting this yogurt and very grateful to Sunspot for pointing out it didn't work for him. I've been having daily d and will not be trying the Col chicken experiment. Just went out and bought more infant blend probiotics and will take them as an adult dosage. It's a teaspoon for a baby, I weigh 165 lbs, I'm going to try a tablespoon for me, twice daily. Again sorry about that mix up, I must be getting senile in my old age. Sunspot sorry to hear you're still having d after the noodles. Have you tried the infant blend?


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## sunspot19

Sorry to hear you are having problems too - hopefully the infant blend will help you.You know, I am finally (really knock on wood) stabilizing again for the last two days, so hopefully it really was that my body reacted badly to the noodles. My wife who does not have IBS herself reacted bad to the noodles which is why I am suspecting them (drat that I wasn't more careful).For now I will stay with my concoction. I did try to look for infant blend nearby me, but I can't find it anywhere. I may give it a whirl if my current situation gets worse again.Hang in there! And be careful with food. I still feel like I need to take a few months with simple foods to keep my stomach on the healing curve, and perhaps with the help of the probios allow my gut to recover its proper flora. Let's see (fingers crossed)!But on top of that, I did take one step I had been trying to avoid, namely taking questran in the mornings. It is the one thing that seems to stabilize me quickly. Must be my body is producing too much bile and so the questran helps. But so far on scans nothing shows my gall bladder to be acting abnormally.


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## Johnny D. and C.

I saw a TV program years ago re H-pylori and how the body produces bile acids four times it's normal strength to burn away these bad guys. This is why I was having stabbing pains on the lower left side of my waist. The stool collects in the colon and being full of bile burns away the mucosal sp lining, hence the pain. Even though I have daily d now there is no pain, since taking infant blend. Or maybe since I had that relief from d for a few weeks the body was able to heal the damaged colon. Your right about too much sugar in those yogurts and the bad guys love sugar. And like you suggest I'm going back to "simple foods to keep my stomach on the healing curve". I still think you should give the infant blend a try. I believe there is a pecking order as far as the flora goes. Starts off with infant then children and then adult strains. We need the guys that colonize and I doubt adult strains do this, since when they come along, colonization has already been done. Anyway hope things work out for you and best wishes!


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## sunspot19

I will look for the infant blend and check it out! I think I saw it once or twice locally at the health food store, but went I went by yesterday, did not see it. I actually am using a variety, including VSL and metagenics ultra flora which is now in powder form as I reordered it. Rest are capsules.I keep hoping I am on the healing path. Kind of took a step back and just ran to taking questran again, but I may (gulp) try to get off of it again and see if I am still ok. Little nervous of that but let's see!!!


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## Cillian

Well I just finished up my first bottle of Pro Bio IF the other day and had ordered another one last week so there would be no gap between the two.







Just so everyone knows though they have changed the ingredients a little bit. The old formula used Lactobacillus Bulgaricus and the new one uses Lactobacillus Plantarum. At first I was confused thinking that they had missprinted the label with the Pro Bio IF on the front and the ingredients from their Pro Bio Gold on the back. I was under the impression that the reason it was Inulin Free was because they used the Bulgaricus instead of the Plantarum. I called Kirkmans and after trying to explain my thoughts to the customer servivce rep I was handed over to a chemist who told me that the label was correct that they had changed to the plantarum since it was a more proven ingredient. He also said that the plantarum was not the inulin like I had thought and that I should not get any more gas or bloating from it.







I sure hope so, the original formula was working well for me along with some supplemental small changes to my lifestyle. I just took my second pill today so we will see how this new improved version does.


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## 13931

I have been taking Kirkman's Probio Gold along with Heather's acacia fiber since December. D no longer seems to be a problem. Because of probable nerve damage in my back from several back surgeries things aren't "normal" but no d is a major step in being able to live my life. When I run out of ProBio next month I plan to order more. I also eat a very careful diet but I have been doing that for several years and it wasn't sufficient to control the D. I don't find the small amount of inulin to be a problem for me.Jean


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