# The elusive "abdominal discomfort" symptom driving me mad...



## Angry_Kitty (Jan 14, 2009)

Sorry for the long post, I am sure most people won't be bothered to wade through all of it, so, like a nerd, I underlined the few bits that matter most to me... I am new to this site (wonderful site, by the way) and to IBS. If that is indeed what I have.I am sure the more experienced IBS-ers on here are getting a bit fed up with trying to diagnose whether the newbies do or do not have IBS, but have a bit of patience with me, since your input is worth its weight in gold, I am fed up with doctors. My main question is about slightly "un-standard" symptoms of IBS, given I have sort of been diagnosed with it, but don't seem to fall into a category. I was hoping some of you will raise their hand and say "oh yes, that is one form IBS takes, welcome to the club"...I am 28 and female. This summer my intestines become relatively suddenly a right nuisance. For 2 months I got sudden cramps and rushing to the toilet a few times a day, on and off, every other day perhaps. I thought I had a GI bug of some sort...Well, I was hoping it was that.But my symptoms slowly calmed down for a few weeks, and I thought that particular bout of unhappiness was well behind me.Of course it came back, but strangely so: I now very rarely have the pain people with IBS talk about, I get that once every few months (and then it is quite bad, all over the abdomen, accompanied with a mad rush to the loo)...What I do have is what I can at best call "discomfort"...Sounds innocent, but it is a right cow...What on earth is that? I mean, most days, now for the last 6 months, I get that feeling of a diffusely uncomfortable abdomen, the feeling one gets just before needing to go to the loo (but I don't actually need to go!), no pain, no real spasms (I think of a spasm to be quite intense, this are sort of very very very very diffuse spasms), just the kind of thing that makes me incapable of doing much else but sit around and wait for it to go away...And I don't actually need the loo...It lasts about an hour, then goes away, then comes back for another hour, over and over again...In fact, I don't have diarrhoea, I am not constipated. And if this is in any way related to the toilet, I sometimes get it AFTER I go, strangely enough.It is of course driving me insane, since it just makes everything unpleasant, I don't feel like doing anything when this is happening, I don't even want to plan things in the future, since I know I shall probably just be uncomfortable...and it is now happening pretty much daily.It doesn't seem to be related to when I eat, what I eat or how much I eat.When I do get it, I feel very tired. I also have a slightly elevated temperature all the time (37.2C, I used to have 36.6C). I only noticed that randomly 4 months ago.I have been to a specialist, I had all the specific blood tests done for various things like thyroid problems, various auto-immune disesases, Crohn's, wheat allergies, h. pylori etc etc...I even had a colonoscopy (with biopsies) and gastroscopy. All fine. The doctor prescribed nothing (he was too disappointed that he didn't find Crohn's I think) so I had to go online and find that I should be using enteric coated peppermint oil, soluble fibre supplements, antispasmodics (like buscopan), probiotics, perhaps avoid dairy...And I do all that now. It doesn't seem to make an iota of a difference.Right, so, is that the IBS "discomfort" people talk about? Is this mild IBS? In fact, what is mild IBS, mild symptoms, or rare "episodes"? I mean, does IBS come in more forms than the few main ones outlined on every IBS website? It is just that I never had anyone describe their symptoms without pain and urgency, or pain and bloated constipation etc etc...Grrrr, why do I have to be so special, I can't even do IBS right... Anyway, if you got this far, well done for reading it all, Thank you so much for your help!


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## 20920 (Jan 6, 2007)

Welcome to this forum. I used to have abdominal pain. I felt like I was going to have a bowel movement but I just passed gas. The pain was caused by gas in my stomach and intestines. I knew it was gas because after I burped or farted, the pain would be reduced. I turned to herbal medicine for help. After taking herbal medicine for 5 months, I now rarely have gas and abdominal pain.I think that your symptoms (abdominal pain with no diarrhea or constipation) are very much related to IBS (though no D or C). You mentioned that your GI specialist found that everything was fine. If that is the case, you are most likely to have IBS. If you are in doubt, you may get a second opinion from another GI specialist. Do keep us updated. Take care.Eugene


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## Angry_Kitty (Jan 14, 2009)

Thanks for replying!I tend to not get the pain, though, just the discomfort (diffuse, dull awareness, heaviness of my intestines, as if they are getting ready to start hurting, or needing to evacuate, just never get there). This is very uncomfortable, but doesn't follow the "pain" rule of IBS. Hence why I wasn't sure if I have IBS. But I am running out of other things to have, so I was just wondering if anyone has this type of IBS, if it is some sort of sub-type or something. Grasping at straws, I know...


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## baz22p (Dec 1, 2008)

Hi, and a warm welcome from me to this forum. I am sorry to hear of your dispair but it sounds very much like some of my symptoms. Have you thought that you could have IBS A (alternating)? Although all your tests have come back clear, do NOT be put off by this because IBS is diagnosed by elinination (that is, IBS is what is left to be diagnosed when all other potential causes have been ruled-out). Symptoms, remedies, etc can be as individual as the person suffering! Although ost of the focus is on IBS D or C, some people do alternate between the 2. Diarrhoea is pretty obvious, but there is a laid down set of rule for constiation - you may have some BMs each week but their constistancy, and if you strain at all, it can still be IBS C. I would suggest that you consult the specific boards on this forum for more info (I can't remember it off the top of my head at the moment!).Baz


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

The IBS diagnostic criteria included discomfort as well as pain. You do not need overt pain that doubles you over gasping for breath to have IBS.However support groups tend to accumulated those with the most severe symptoms so you will find a lot of people with severe pain here. More than you would if you had a randomly selected cross-section of all IBSers.Abdominal discomfort includes but isn't limited to things like achiness that isn't enough to be called pain, urgency, bloating, fullness, and heaviness.Feeling like you need to go even when you don't is part of that "urgency" and also "incomplete evacuation" that you hear lots of IBSers talk about. These are not specific symptoms of anything else, but people with other GI problems may have them because there is only so many different things the GI tract can do to let you know it is "unhappy".It is a MYTH that the only thing wrong with IBSers is we are not eating the right diet or IBS should be easily controlled by diet alone. A lot of people are mis-reacting to the normal GI stimuli that happen in every human regardless of which specific food you eat. The gastrocolic reflex happens after every single meal no matter what you eat. Your colon is more active around the time you get up whether you eat food or not.People with severe pain or severe issues with stool consistency also have discomfort symptoms so I don't know if you can say it is ONLY a mild IBS thing. Discomfort is in the diagnostic criteria because I think most IBSers have some level of discomfort whether they have very little overt pain, or severe pain. The other thing to remember is what is pain and what is discomfort can vary from person to person. It is a subjective thing not an objective thing. With the exact same stimulus applied to people you will find some think it is painful and other think it is uncomfortable. It depends, I think, on your individual pain tolerance, and what other pains you have had. People who have had severe pain tend to view average pains differently from what I see. I know people that don't think childbirth was painful because they've had an injury that hurt worse than that.I would say if you mostly have discomfort and mild changes to stool then you probably are on the mild end of IBS. That doesn't mean you are doing it wrong. As I said support groups tend to accumulate those with severe cases that aren't easy to treat so I think we don't always paint the full range of IBS. 10% or so of all people have IBS, but only a few of us are so bad we can't do normal daily activities. It ranges from an occasional inconvenience for a couple of days a month to nearly constant torture. You aren't doing IBS wrong because you aren't one of the most severely effected.Some of the discomforts can be difficult to treat but some of the things like low dose antidepressants that effect how the nerves in the GI tract act (which is where most the problem is with IBS) can help with urgency for some people. If you don't think it is bad enough to medicate you might try Mike's Tapes or other hypnosis or CBT designed for IBS. The mind can also change how the nervous system reacts to things and that does some people a world of good.


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## Angry_Kitty (Jan 14, 2009)

Thank you everyone for responding, and Kathleen, your post was fantastic, it is very hard to find a voice to believe, and that understands, and can explain on the level a pedantic worry-bucket would be satisfied with, but you managed and I am eternally grateful. My discomfort has now made itself present every day, for most of the day, and I am trying to tackle it with all sorts of OTC medications, and am considering the low dose of anti-depressants. I know my symptoms could be far worse, so I should count my blessings. I do hope I reincarnate as a turnip though, I've had enough of the joys of being human and complicated...


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## cookies4marilyn (Jun 30, 2000)

Hi Kitty and welcome - your story is similar to mine in some ways (read my journey below if you have the strength to wade through it!) But the main thing is that I was on all the meds - including anti-depressants, etc. and none of that helped - you may want to consider the IBS Audio Program - "Mike's tapes - CDs actually - that Kathleen mentions - It was developed in England and treatment guidelines over in the UK have now included this as a treatment method after a whole year of other failed treatments - it doesnt help everyone, but most folks do see reduction, and given the symptoms you mention, it might be a good fit for you! Take care and more info below...







There is hope - and there are lots of ways to be helped...


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## evawes1 (Nov 24, 2008)

Hey kitty, you know that used to be my biggest issue - what is this so called discomfort? I think Kathleen provided a pretty good answer! I never really had abdominal pain, although I had some bloating pressure. Ive had some crampiness lately and a little soreness, but no bad pain. I'm kind've wondering what you're trying to get out your post? Is it just some reassurance that there's others out there like you? There definitely is. But I don't think you have anything to worry about at all, if that was an issue. The thorough tests by the GI, including a colonoscopy, are most definitely conclusive to being nothing worse than IBS.As Kathleen said to me once, if you don't exactly have all the symptoms to 'qualify' for IBS, then thats nearly always a good thing.


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## Angry_Kitty (Jan 14, 2009)

Sounds good, Mike's Tapes (CDs) I shall definitely look into! Thanks, it is "nice" to hear that some people have my symptoms as well...misery adores company... I suppose the reason for my post is to try to figure out if I indeed have IBS, or if I should go with the doctor's mad ideas of doing "capsule endoscopy", which is basically swallowing a small camera, which travels through your whole GI system, recording images of everything...I feel that this is a bit much, given he didn't see anything abnormal on colonoscopy or bloods etc, but he keeps giving me the option, since my symptoms are not dead on IBS, and since they are quite debilitating at times...But my symptoms are even less like anything else, therefore I think he would mostly be doing the procedure for fun (and money).I guess I keep trying to find a fix, because a few years ago, I stared itching all over madly, which lasted many months; doctors just gave me creams blaming it on dry skin (which didn't help at all), and only my stubbornness to not have a chronic disease I can't control led me from forum to forum, doctor to doctor, until one diagnosed it as a particular disorder that is totally fixed with one strong antihistamine a day...I felt re-born. (I wonder how many other people have this particular itching problem, and are still just slithering in creams)...But given some of your posts, I think it is time I accept that I do have IBS and scratch swallowing miniature cameras...


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## tracey868 (Jan 3, 2009)

Hi- I had many of the same symtoms. I had so many tests done and all the Dr's said was it was IBS> My pain was terrible. They put me on different drugs.. Nothing helped. Finally they wanted me to go on an antidepressant. Well for me that was a NO go. After crying to my chiropractor he pointed me in the direction of someone who deals with Enzyme therapy. Well let me tell you all after one week I feel 90% better. I cannot believe it. She said my issue was I was not breaking down proteins properly. Listen not one Dr gave me a good drection and after one visit this woman had at least an idea to help and it is. I live in NJ so if anyone wants her name I would be happy to share.I am not saying this is for everyone. I just found something that is working for me.It is at least worth a try.The enzymes I am on are from the Loomis Enzymes. There are many different formulas and I have been on two so far to figure out which one works the best for my symptoms and helps my pain. Check it out.If I can steer someone in the right direction that is great. I am sooo happy. I hope more of you can be too!If you have any questions please feel free to PM me.Tracey


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## Angry_Kitty (Jan 14, 2009)

But I don't have pain. Nor bloating. Nor spasms. Nor diarrhoea. Nor constipation. I just have dull, hollow, diffuse discomfort throughout my whole abdomen, as if I need to go to the loo, but I don't. And it lasts for days, goes away for a day, comes back again for days. From this forum I am starting to accept that it is IBS, but I still find it a bit weird that the symptoms don't really fit the Roma II thing, but can still be IBS. *sigh*


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## Slade (Dec 17, 2008)

Hi there,The discomfort you describe is pretty much like what I had 2 or 3 months ago. I didn't have D or C back then. Now I have alternating stool pattern (somehow the D is predominating) and pain and discomfort at random time/days of the week. The more or less important symptom in common is the temperature - I also have elevated temp. (37.0-37.3) and this is constant for the past 5-6 months. Could this be some sort of local inflammatory focus somewhere in the gut that is causing all that? It could be so small that neither inflammatory markers nor colonoscopy is able to reveal it? I don't know how sensitive the ESR and CRP test is and how the CRP levels corelate with the level of inflammatory response (local or generalized).


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

well "normal" isn't a single temp that never varies. I don't think that is out of the average and standard deviation, or the range most people go through as their temperature goes up and down every day.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_human_body_temperature


> The range for normal human body temperatures, taken orally, is 36.8±0.7 °C (98.2±1.3 °F). This means that any oral temperature between 36.1 and 37.5 °C (96.9 and 99.5 °F) is likely to be normal.


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## Angry_Kitty (Jan 14, 2009)

Heeeey Slade, sorry to hear you share my symptoms, but on the other hand, quite glad someone does...







I think I might get in touch via e-mail as well, so we can brainstorm a few things together...Oh how you must be excited about that prospect! Kathleen, very true, temperature does vary, but I've had 36.6 pretty much all my life (as did most people around me, strangely enough, my family, my friends, my friends' families etc), and having it jump to the temp I have now just feels odd and wrong...Especially since I can lower it back to 36.6 with paracetamol...assuming it is just my normal body temperature, it shouldn't be reduced by an anti-inflammatory...So it is a bit of a nagging thing at the back of my mind...I might do a poll on here, see what the temperature of most IBS sufferers is at various parts of the day, over a few days...Who knows, maybe quite a few have this slightly elevated temperature without knowing it, given one doesn't think of measuring their temperature "for no reason" (I had mine measured as a routine test before minor surgery, and they just thought it was up due to worry about the surgery; except it never went back down again)...


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## Slade (Dec 17, 2008)

Kathleen I agree with you about the variable human temperature and it's typical range. But... Angry_Kitty made an excellent point! All my life I've had temperature around 36,4 - 36,6 (even in the evening), my kid has below 37, my wife has below 37, my father has even lower temp (35,7-36,2!), etc.. I've driven my family nuts to measure their temp. during the last several months







I've had cold and flu sooo many times and when my temp. drops well below 37 I know I'm getting better (well not anymore).Even some docs say it's not normal to have constantly elevated temp. like this. They already checked me for inflamation in the sinuses, throat, lungs, urinary tract, chlamidia infection, bacterial GI infection, parasites, etc. in order to find the cause of this higher temp. - no luck







. Even though I took ciprofloxacin for one week, metronidasole (Flagyl) for 10 days and Mycomax (fluconasole) for one week they made no difference. Then I started to worry about Crohn's and sh**.Kitty, IMO the fact that you got your temp. controlled with paracetamol is not enough to draw a conclusion but still it's a sign that you have an elevated temp. for some reason (it could be even psychological).


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

A lot of people have no idea where they run and do not know their temperature is supposed to be different at different times of the day.So you can find people who freak out because it isn't the perfect number 24/7 when it is the same as it ever was.Once people get sick they get over-vigilant and can get very concerned about things that were never perfect to start with.I do know I run low most of my life but I don't worry too much about normal even when that isn't all that normal for me. I haven't had a doctor do a bunch of tests about normal. I have had some tests run when my sub normal got lower than it usually is but nothing that causes that was going on so it may just be variation (and I'm getting old enough now the hormones can do some funky things at times).If you look at the graph of the normal daily variation a fair number of humans will be above average for part of the day. Average isn't the highest possible normal temperature and many people go over average at some point in the day or with exercise, etc. The body can be normal and above average from time to time.I wouldn't over-medicate the times when you are slightly above normal, especially if you aren't having symptoms other than being over average at one part of the day (especially if it is the part of the day your temperature is supposed to be higher)Paracetamol isn't an anti-inflammatory is it? It thought it was like Tylenol and one of the direct effects was lowering temperature and reducing pain but in a mechanism different than an NSAID which is a drug that has anti-inflammatory properties.*googles*


> In this regard, paracetamol is different from Aspirin and NSAIDs (non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs) in that it blocks the pain message at the brain and not at the source of the pain, as the others do.Paracetamol is an antipyretic that can reduce fever by affecting the part of the brain known as the hypothalamus that regulates the temperature of the body.


http://www.assistpainrelief.com/info/paracetamol/


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## Angry_Kitty (Jan 14, 2009)

Yes, I misspoke, paracetamol is not an anti-inflammatory, it was ibuprofen that I sometimes take which is...But the interesting thing about paracetamol (which I take occasionally for a headache here and there) is that it brings my temp back to 36.6, regardless of the fact that the way paracetamol works is by lowering an elevated temperature back to normal, whilst having no effect on the normal body temperature. They work on the temperature regulating centre in the brain (hypothalamus) to increase heat loss via dilation of cutaneous blood vessels, swelling, mobilization of fluid from the tissues to the blood.Bah, whatever, it can be nothing, it can be anything.


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## Slade (Dec 17, 2008)

But even the fact that you lower your temperature to 36,6 from some higher degree is enough to suspect that you have some abnormal process that keeps that temperature higher! I suspect the same in my case. The mechanism of action is not really important - NSAID or another antipyretic (like paracetamol, metamizole, etc.) if it lowers your temp so you have it elevated for some reason. You can't make your temperature from 36,6 to lets say 32 with 2-3g Tylenol (it will damage your liver though).In my case the elevated temperature is sometimes constant during the whole day. It is below 37 only until noon and this is occasional now. Most of the bad days when I feel greater fatigue and even greater GI discomfort - the temp is above 37 all the time.


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

It seems like for some people at least it can lower basal temperature even when you do not have a fever at all.It doesn't know what your normal temperature range is so it acts all the time in everyone. They use it in stroke victims to keep the basal temperature below normal even when they don't have a fever because it sounds like during the early healing running on the cold side of normal is better than on the warm side.http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2261/3/2Also remember that graph from wiki. Everyone's temperature goes up and down every day. That is why for fertility (either not getting pregnant or to get pregnant) you want to take your temperature at the same time every day. Usually in the morning when it is low. For women the monthly hormonal cycle also makes it go up and down a bit. You cannot expect it to be the same all the time every day.Now they aren't usually able to get you way low (like hypothermic) except in people that might have some other problem thermoregulating http://www.pnas.org/content/101/30/11165.abstract. So you might be able to go a little lower even in the normal range, but typically you can't make yourself clinically hypothermic with it.


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## Slade (Dec 17, 2008)

Kathleen I can't argue with the facts, the graph and the other articles really show that the normal range is up to 37,5 and I know in patients with flare-ups of IBD the temperature is above 37,5. I hope it's just something I get unnecessary anxious about and it's not really important for my condition.


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