# endep or valium



## 19733

I have IBS-C with abdo pain and bloating. I have to make a choice as to whether stay with endep 25mg or try valium again for abdo pain. The endep helps with the abdo pain but obviously makes my constipation worse which means I then have to eat alot more fibre and take more laxatives to stay regular. The endep also gives me terrible mouth ulcers due to dry mouth which is almost as bad as the abdo pain. I did try some valium a few weeks ago which did seem to help with the abdo pain but was told this is not a long term solution. I seem to have now found a doctor that will prescribe it for me if it is a better solution than the endep due to the side effects. Also with the valium I will get a better nights sleep, for some reason the endep is not helping me sleep this time around. I guess I would like to know what people think about endep and more importantly has anyone used valium for abdo pain and got good results.Pedro


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## 20840

Hi pedro,Im also on Endep. For the dry mouth I can highly reccommend a product called "Biotene", it specifically targets dry mouth and works really well. They also make a toothpaste which has a similar effect.I was waking up with a dry mouth *before* using the Endep, so when I started it it got worse. The Biotene has greatly helped.I've only been on the Endep for 3 weeks and have too noticed that it no longer helps with sleep- I guess my body has adjusted to the low dosage (only 10mg) as the tiredness during the day has also diminished.


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## 19733

linds_ said:


> Hi pedro,Im also on Endep. For the dry mouth I can highly reccommend a product called "Biotene", it specifically targets dry mouth and works really well. They also make a toothpaste which has a similar effect.I was waking up with a dry mouth *before* using the Endep, so when I started it it got worse. The Biotene has greatly helped.I've only been on the Endep for 3 weeks and have too noticed that it no longer helps with sleep- I guess my body has adjusted to the low dosage (only 10mg) as the tiredness during the day has also diminished.


Well I have now just come from hospital as I had to have another colonoscopy and endoscopy, little reflux apparently but nothing else showed up new. I have now been put on lexapro for depression e.t.c which I have had no side effects and in the hope that it may even out the constipation from the endep which I am still on at night with one 5mg valium. Not sure if the lexapro has done much yet, has now only been two weeks. Seem to be over the mouth ulcers for now although my gastro does want me to increase the endep dose from 25mg to 37.5mg and then maybe 50mg if do not get too constipated. Pedro


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## 19733

was wondering if anyone out there has had the human probiotic infusions done at the centre for digestive diseases in five dock sydney with professor borody ?. I went and saw him in may and since then he suggested I try colchicine/colgout and dipentum to see if it helps with the pain and constipation. As everyone here has said the colchicine did make me go but gave me terrible abdo pain. I have now been on dipentum alone which is supposed to suppress the bad bacteria and help alot (usually given to people with crohns e.t.c). It is going to cost about $3500 for the human probiotic infusions plus travel, accomodation e.t.c. Would be good to speak with someone else who has had this done to find out if it has helped them, more particularly with constipation, bloating and pain.Pedro


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## Lee

Pedro, how much Colgout were you taking? I take one tablet at bedtime and it seems to work in the morning. No pain. It does affect people differently though. Maybe you were taking too much.I have only just started taking it so we have to see how it progresses. I suffer from fructose malabsorption. Have you been tested for it? It is diagnosed with a hydrogen breath test. This problem can cause severe constipation in some people (and D in others). Some problem fruits are pears, apples and mangoes. Problem vegetables are onions, leeks, garlic. If you have it then you also need to eliminate wheat. You would need to see a dietician of course.


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## 19733

I was taking two tablets per day along with the dipentum that Prof Borody recommended. I think that now I will try it again and stick to 1 tablet per day. I have tried the dipentum on its own and it did not give me pain but did not help my bowels which I was told should happen even without taking the colgout. Funny you mention fructose intolerance e.t.c as Gastro told me that it is probably what I have as I find it almost impossible to eat any fruits, give me pain and abdo bloating something terrible. There does not seem to be anywhere in Tasmania where you can get the hydrogen test performed. I am very interested to know how you are going with the colgout ?Pedro


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## Lee

Pedro,I am taking one Colgout at night, taking one and a half tsp of Benefiber (fibre supplement) am and pm and drinking 2 litres of water a day. It helps me have a BM in the morning. This should be the end of it for the day, however I usually need to go again at night but can't. This has always been my main problem. The evenings are so bad I can rarely go out. Movies or restaurants etc. are all out of the question most of the time, because I feel so terrible. So unfortunately just one Colgout in the morning isn't helping me as much as I had hoped it would. One tablet may be OK for someone else though.So the Gastroenterologist has told me to try one Colgout in the morning and one at night. He is a bit worried I might feel sick etc. If I have adverse symptoms he wants me to stop it altogether. I think he said I could first try half a one in the morning and a whole one at night. I'm not sure if I can cut them in half easily or not. If this fails to make me go again at night then he wants me to try TAZAC. It apparently speeds up the stomach emptying etc.Regarding fructose malabsorption, in Melbourne you can get tested at the Department of Gastroenterology, at Box Hill Hospital. As this is a public hospital it isn't that expensive. Cheaper if you have a health care card. So maybe a public hospital in Tasmania would do it.They prefer it if you have a referral but you don't have to have one. They also test for lactose intolerance. I just had my two daughters tested for fructose malabsorption and they have it too. It is hereditary!Have a look at the website coeliac.com.au and go to"Hydrogen Breath Testing". This is run by well known Dietitian Sue Shepherd, who has researched IBS, fructose malabsorption as well as coeliac disease. So the site is a godsend even for people without coeliac disease. I know it won't help you in Tasmania, but you will see what is available here and you may have something similar there. It really is a Dietitian's area of expertise. So maybe you should ask for a referral to a Dietitian. Your Gastroenterologist should know where to get tested surely. My own test was done ten years ago by my Gastroenterologist. It was more expensive done through him. As the test has been around that long I'm sure it must be done somewhere in Tasmania.


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## 19733

Thanks for all that. I have an appt with my gastro in two weeks, I will mention it to him and see what he comes up with. I also believe that just 1 colgout per day will not be enough to make me go regularly and two will give me the abdo pain like before. My problem is eating carbs, they just seem to bloat me and give me pain. I know I feel better without them but then how do I go to the toilet. I hate this bloody disease.Pedro


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## Lee

Pedro,You need to take a fibre supplement too. From experience, Benefiber is the best.Do you realise that if you are fructose intolerant you can't eat wheat in large amounts. If it is a small ingredient in something it is ok. So maybe wheat is troubling you. Wheat is made up of long chains of fructan molecules. So if carbs are bothering you, maybe this is why.However, I have just found out that the ingredient in Benefiber (which is guar gum), is being changed to some form of wheat. My specialist has to look into this. Could ruin everything.


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## 19733

I have used for quite some time now normacol plus granules which are a combination of fibre and laxative, it has worked quite well for me unless I take too much. I have hardly ever eaten wheat, mostly relied on oats to help me go to the loo, but oats are the main problem, cause all the pain and bloating but can not seem to go without them. I take flaxseed meal and oil daily which also helps a little. I have justed started on fibresure, a new product from the people that make metamucil. I can not tolerate physullum but fibresure is made of inulin, you get 5g of suluble fibre just with one teaspoon. Will just have to see what happens. I am heading off to melbourne on tuesday to try some advanced allergy testing and see if they can help. supposed to use some form of acupuncture along your back to help with allergies whether it be food or other things. I am wondering has anyone else out there tried this.Pedro


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## Lee

Pedro,Just be aware that Inulin has something to do with fructose or fructans (long chains of fructose molecules). It is being added to a lot of processed foods now to give people more fibre. People with fructose malabsorption cannot tolerate it. It is appearing in some yoghurts and I think I have even seen it in one brand of milk. I haven't had that sort of testing however, I did have allergy testing in Ringwood Melbourne, where they prick your skin with a needle and test different foods. They said I reacted to everything and they had never seen such a reaction before. Comforting! Then they referred me to a dietitian at the clinic. She started me on an elimination diet, firstly eliminating dairy. It didn't help so I gave up and went to a Gastroenterologist. That was before I knew I was fructose intolerant. She may have got to that eventually I guess.


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## 19733

I am convinced the only way for me to lead a normal life is to eliminate all carbs from my diet, well atleast grains to start with. Everytime I have tried this it has helped the pain and bloating so much but then within a day or so I cannot use my bowels and Iam just as bad as I was to start with. I just need to find that one special thing in this world that will allow me to stay regular without pain on a low carb, reasonably low fibre diet. There must be something out there somewhere.Pedro


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## 19733

Hi Lee, have been wondering how you are going with the colgout ?.Pedro


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## Lee

The Colgout I have at night is definitely working and produces results the next morning, but I have to get up and eat 2 hours before anything happens. Seems a long drawn out process. I also have two cups of coffee and lots of iced water to get things going. It shouldn't be so hard.But the Colgout I have in the morning doesn't seem to be doing anything much for me in the afternoon. Sometimes I go again, but not often. I nearly always NEED to go. This is my main problem. I'm unsure whether I am meant to have it with food. I know it is better to, so that it does not irritate your stomach lining. But what I mean is, does it need to be with the food for the process to work. I know Colgout prevents the absorption of uric acid. The excess acid in the bowel is meant to "even things out" throughout the day. But how this relates to the meal I'm not sure.Also I know that taking fibre supplements can reduce the absorption of some medications. I asked my doctor whether Benefibre would prevent Colgout being absorbed and working. He said no. But I don't feel confident about it because the Normacol Plus packet says to be careful about it. So if I take Colgout straight after my dinner or breakfast (and therefore after my Benefibre), maybe it won't work properly.(I've noticed a few stomach pains/discomfort if I take Colgout by itself, a few hours BEFORE a meal.)Also my doctor said it can take 6 weeks to see the full result. I am meant to call him if it doesn't help. So I think I will wait the six weeks.He suggested Tazac.By the way, the chilled/iced water often does get things going. Try it. I need to drink one or two big tall glasses though. I read this somewhere.


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## wilko

Hi , i have just moved to Hobart and have been struggling with gut problems for the last 15 years. A couple of years ago they suspected it may have progressed from IBS to possible Crohns...but then changed their minds!Just wondered if any of you could recommend a good gastroenterologist in Tasmania ( or even Melbourne) as my problems have taken a real turn for the worse since having an endoscopy 3 years ago.Many thanks


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## 19733

Hi there. I see Dr Stephen Chung, a Gastro specialist at Hobart private Hospital. He is really good and easy to talk too. If he had not got me on to endep I probably would not be here now. If you can not get in to see him, I recomend Dr Hugh Jackson at Calvary Hospital. Yoy will need a referral from your GP.RegardsPedr


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## wilko

Hi Pedro , Thanks very much for those names , i will try and get into see one of them. Glad to hear you have had some help from Dr Chung , i will try him first. I am also considering a trip upto Sydney to see the Dr you mentioned in a previous post. It is a long way to go for a colonoscopy/endoscopy but after seeing his name and researching his clinic they do appear very good. Thanks again.Wilko


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## 19733

Hi WilkoWhen I went to Sydney they told me to go over there and have the HPI procedures over a two week period would cost $3500 if use a donor on their database, $2700 if you took your own donor with you which is not practical as they would have to use their bowels every morning like clock work before the infusions. They did tell me that I could do this at home if I had a donor, assuming their bloods and stool tests were okay. This would cost only about $350 for the equipment you need e.t.c plus they bulk bill you for the course of antibiotics you take for about two weeks first to kill all bad bugs in your colon. This seems more of a better idea to me mainly because of the cost and there are no guarantees, just do not like the thought of having to mix you know what up in a blender in the kitchen diluted with saline which is what you do. Have another phone appt with them next wednesday to discuss this further. Happy to pass on any info if you like.Pedro


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## wilko

Thanks Pedro , i would be very interested to hear more about what is involved with that procedure...do the phone appointments have a fee ? I rang them yesterday and can go up for a colonoscopy but i will try and see Dr Chung first. If the HPI sounds promising i may try and do it , though the cost to do it up there is a bit hard to cover. Arranging a donor here would be hard though and preparing it all sounds tricky to say the least!thanks again and good luckwilko


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## 19733

The phone appts cost $40 and you can not claim any of it back. I suppose if at the end of it all you were a normal person again you would not mind, but ofcourse there are no guarantees. However, the whole theory behind what they are doing with regard to bacteria e.t.c does seem to make more sense than just about anything else I have been told, e.g. you have IBS and just live with it, easy for them to say when they have not got this bloody condition.Pedro


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## wilko

i totally agree, you'd pay just about anything to get 'better' and being told to live with it is easier said than done. $40 for the phone appt sounds worthwhile and the idea of getting good bacteria back in is something i strongly agree with , just hadn't heard about the HPI procedure.good luck with the appt , it may well be something i end up doing. The last couple of nights i have been thinking about it and $3500 could be money well spent if they have a good track record.thanks again for the gastro names..i am off to get a referral for Dr Chung.wilko


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## wilko

Hi Pedro , just wondered how you got on with your phone appointment yesterday. Hope it went well . Has it helped you make any decisions with regard to the HPI? Wilko


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## 19733

Hi WilkoI had my appt and have decided to get some info sent down on how to do the HPI at home. They told me there is a 50% chance of success, I think I would like this figure to be higher if I was going to pay the $3500-$4000 to have it done in sydney. I asked them would I be at a disadvantage if I did not have the 1st infusion via colonoscopy and they replied not really. Dr Chung said he would give it to me via colonoscopy if I wanted, but ofcourse thats another $300 to go into hospital, this being my health fund excess. Anyway, I will decide on if I want Dr Chung do the 1st infusion or just do it all at home. To me it probably makes sense to have the 1st one done via colonoscopy as it is supposed to try and get the infusions into the small bowel and not just the colon. I guess I will make a final decision after reading all the info on how to do it at home. They told me you are better getting a donor who goes everyday to the toilet if possible but do not recommend anyone under 17. I do have a son who is 17 so It would be him or my wife as the donor. The thought of mixing this up in your home is not to good, but I suppose if it helps then it does not matter and ofcourse the cost is alot cheaper compared to the alternative. Have you got around to seeing a doctor for a referral yet ?.Pedro


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## imp

I am trying to find a doctor who does fecal infusion and saw the name of Dr. Chung. I suppose you're in England or somewhere. Does anyone know who does this is the U.S. for ulcerative colitis? Thanks


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## 19733

Dr Chung is in Hobart, Australia. He does not do the HPI, for that you need to contact the centre for digestive diseases in five dock, sydney australia. I have heard of many people travelling from around the world to see Dr Thomas Borody in sydney. Pedro


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