# Fructose and Lactose malabsorption



## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

I am making this thread for my signature because the links are too long and throws the alignment of the posts off.	A total of 183 patients(with unexplained GI symptoms) had breath tests, of whom 134 (73%) were positive for fructose malabsorption http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...t_uids=12818280 80% of patients had lactose malabsorption http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...t_uids=15614254


----------



## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

Bonnei,the second link is "dead".Maybe someone has asked them to close it for some personal reasons.I will not write his name.


----------



## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

I edited it and it works ok now. Thanks spasman.


----------



## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

> quote:Maybe someone has asked them to close it for some personal reasons.I will not write his name.


Who do you mean? Is his name a four letter word?


----------



## jools41 (Jan 8, 2004)

i must mention this breath test to my doc ive never been offered this let alone heard of it till someone mentioned it a few weeks ago on here, you have to chase docs for anything they dont offer the info (not here they dont) all this lactose/fructose ive never heard of that either


----------



## legbuh (Jan 9, 2005)

My GP didn't even "waste his time" after hearing my symptoms. My GI didn't either. She said it would most likely show from the symptoms I've described.I haven't been since my colonoscopy 3 months ago, and am contemplating going in and asking for Lotronex or waiting for the new one to try that first. The only other meds I've tried is Levbid, and it did nothing but make me thirsty.


----------



## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

If you can, get the tests done. Don't know if it is available in Scotland but should be available in Pediatric departments of major hospitals in the US.


----------



## watt (Sep 1, 2004)

HI Bonnie,up again in the am with my 4th attack of IBS.The fructose article is very interesting as my son has the rare condition of HEREDITARY FRUCTOSE INTOLERANCE. He is not diabetic but cannot ingest any form of fructose or sucrose as he totally lacks the liver enzyme to deal with it. It is liver driven rather than pancreas if i understand it correctly (highly complex subject.)When he had what they described as the `fructose challenge` in hospital, as well as his hypoglycemic symptoms + very itchy he later had the runs.We did not know until he was 13. I only knew that from being a baby if he ate anything sweet he would immediately be sick and had temper outbursts which were the undx hypo symptoms.During paediatric consultation for the mental symptoms i happened to say "he does not like sweets". A clever young doc decided to follow his hunch and bingo .. HFI!When he was undx liquid antibiotics used to give him severe runs. I mentioned this time and time again to the docs but they always said it was part of the infection they were treating him for ... OR .. a normal side effect of the drugs .. poor kid had hell until dx. Although i used my intuition and where possible made sure he didn`t get any.To come to the point both my husband and myself carry a mutated gene for this condition but they told us the HFI does not appear until a child gets 2 copies of the gene. As this was 20+yrs ago i wonder if there is new research that would predispose a carrier of HFI to IBS? but this wouldn`t explain why my IBS has only appeared in the last 3yrs.


----------



## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

sb,HFI is not the same as FI.FI diet: http://www.uihc.uiowa.edu/FRUCTOSE/DietBasics.htm


----------



## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

What is his symptoms?I have hypoglycemea.


----------



## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

> quote:As this was 20+yrs ago i wonder if there is new research that would predispose a carrier of HFI to IBS?


sb, No studies that I am aware of, positive or negative.


----------



## rscottbutler (Mar 26, 2002)

Well I tested positive for IBS and Lactose Intolerant more than 20 years ago - any information on relationship between Lactose intolerant fructose intolerant? Is testing for fructose intolerant well known? I've never heard of it before..and how does one test for it?


----------



## rscottbutler (Mar 26, 2002)

And does anyone know if you have one...you're more prone to have the other? Or perhaps you only have one OR the other? Thanks/Scott


----------



## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

> quote:Only 7% of patients with IBS and 8% of patients with FC absorbed all three sugars normally. The frequency of isolated lactose malabsorption was 16% and 12% respectively. *The association of lactose and fructose-sorbitol malabsorption occurred in 61% of both patient groups*. The frequency of sugar malabsorption among patients in both groups was 78% for lactose malabsorption (IBS 82%, FC 75%), 44% for fructose malabsorption and 73% for fructose-sorbitol malabsorption (IBS 70%, FC 75%)


from http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...t_uids=10979349 Scott you test for fructose intolerance through breath tests, the same as they do nowadays for lactose intolerance.In fructose intolerance, you malabsorb fructose while in LI you malabsorb lactose. Since fructose is a simple sugar you can't break it down with an enzyme as you can for Lactose with Lactaid. There is apparently something wrong with the transporter which takes fructose from the lumen into the blood while in LI there is an enzyme deficiency. The only solution is dietary restricrion. Except taking equal amounts of glucose with fructose is supposed to help fructose malabsorption because fructose piggy backs on glucose during absirption.


----------



## 23470 (Apr 18, 2005)

I just recently had the first major flare up of IBS that I've ever had....I'm assuming its IBS. All of my symptoms are in line with it and I've always had a irritable bowel. ANYWAY, I went through a period where I SERIOUSLY upped my sugar over a couple of months then BAM....bowel symptoms. D alternating with C and stomach grumbling etc. I thought I was dying. I found this thread and cut my sugar almost completely and 75% of my symptoms have gone away! Just to test it I had a lot of sugar a couple of nights ago and I paid for it....stomach and gut cramps, weird BM (flat, loose, light colored) and then went back to no sugar the next day. My body started going back to normal again. I'm going to stick with this for awhile and see how much really goes away...the stomach grumbles seem to stick around though.


----------



## 21736 (Apr 8, 2005)

interesting about the liver connection...my natrapath says it could be liver problem in the first place and my gp has me on a lactose and fructose free diet for now...


----------



## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

So glad it helped you poboyross.


----------



## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:interesting about the liver connection..


The liver has *nothing* to do with fructose or lactose intolerance.


> quote:Just to test it I had a lot of sugar a


What kind of sugar was it?


----------



## 17176 (Mar 31, 2005)




----------



## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

flux does mae valid points. The liver connection is with herdeditry fructose intolerance where people can even die with too much fructose. They develop it as children when they have such an aversion to fructose that they naturally avoid it. Secondly when people say sugar they mean fructoe as wel as table sugar. The studies I have posted are of fructose and dietary fructose intolerance and not of table sugar nor of hereditary fructose intolerance.


----------



## 21736 (Apr 8, 2005)

youve got some very strong views flux but ive , met alot of people who have found help through the treatments your dumping on at teh bottom of your post there....dont be so quick to judge my friend...


----------



## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

mikey, I don't think flux was knocking down fructose malabsorption. He was asking poboyross whether it was table sugar he cut down on or was it fructose. Because generally table sugar doesn't cause any problems.


----------



## Lagomorph (Mar 4, 2005)

Yeah, once you get past flux's tone he actually presents some good, useful information to this board.


----------



## 21736 (Apr 8, 2005)

more refering to his signature....


----------



## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Oh Re: the normal digestion and absorption in IBSErs in his signature- I try to counteract his signature with mine


----------



## Lagomorph (Mar 4, 2005)

We can be such an adversariable (real word?) bunch of sufferers. At least we can find humour in our discussions.


----------



## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Well this is my recall of what happened.- A bunch of us were discussing with flux whether there was normal digestion and absorption in IBS'ers and I was of the opinion it was not normal while flux was of the opinion that it was normal. All of a sudden I saw he had incorporated his opinion in his signature to counteract what we were saying. I am 99% sure that it was in that discussion that he incorporated that into his signature. It was so funny that it inspired me to make my own signature to counteract his.


----------



## 23470 (Apr 18, 2005)

It's taken me a week to realize that flux was asking me about table sugar...shows how much attention I've paid. No, it wasnt table sugar. I cut out all of the things I eat that had high fructose corn syrup in it is when a majority of things disappeared.


----------



## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

> quote:It's taken me a week to realize that flux was asking me about table sugar...shows how much attention I've paid


LOL!


----------



## 20029 (Apr 26, 2005)

i got diagnosed with ibs and lactose intolerance a few days ago. the first thing my doctor did was to put me on tablets for the ibs, but these contain lactose. any thoughts on this?


----------



## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Don't think lactose in pills is enough to provoke symptoms if you follow Levitt's train of thought. Levitt is a well know researcher who pioneered the study for gas.


----------



## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Ok I said table sugar does not cause problems. That was the impression I was under until I read this abstract.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...t_uids=10232639It says "Lactose maldigesters also experience more symptoms after ingesting sucrose.". flux how do you explain this finding?


----------



## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Bump forflux. Have sent you an SOS on another thread,flux.


----------



## Arnie W (Oct 22, 2003)

This thread is very topical for me. I was going to start my own thread, then noticed this one.I went to the doctor a few days ago and asked about hydrogen breath testing, but he had not heard of it. Through a google search I tracked down a private clinic which does testing and when I rang them, I was told I would need a referral from my doctor. I will go ahead with it, but after reading through this thread, I became a bit confused about what test I should have. Do I make up my own mind, or do I get guidance from the medical staff? I tend to think I should go for the lactulose test, as I feel that my problems could be related to SIBO.I haven't had any dairy, wheat, gluten, yeast or fructose for several weeks and am looking forward to finding out what sort of result I will get.


----------



## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Yes the first test you should have is the lactulose test for SIBO. Because if you have SIBO you will test positive for the other tests. Now if you have SIBO the "solution" is a course of antibiotics every few months, Now if you don't have SIBO and test positive for the lactose test or the fructose test, the solution is dietary restriction. Also if you have SIBO then your basal hydrogen or methane(depending on whether you are a H2 excretor or methane excretor) in the other breath tests could be higher than normal. So that is another clue as to whether you SIBO. My basal hydrogen was higher in the lactose test so I did the glucose test for SIBO. I tested negative for it and I wonder if I should have done the lactulose test for SIBO. If your insurance covers it and the clinic does both the glucose as well as lactulose, get both the tests done. My doc believes the glucose test is more reliable. But Pimentel does lactulose.


----------



## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

Bonnie,i will do a 5 hours glucose test in 2 week for the diagnosis of diabeteshypoglycemea.I wonder if they can do SIBO breath test at the same time.


----------



## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

I don't know much about hypoglycemia I am afraid.


----------



## Arnie W (Oct 22, 2003)

Thankyou for the reply, bonniei. I don't have insurance, but will talk about options for the testing when I make my appointment.But the question is whether it is going to help find the means to deal with odorous gas. I can only hope.


----------



## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Sometimes antibiotics can kill the bacteria which make odorous gas. But sometimes they can increase them. The best thing you can do for odorous gas is Pepto or Devrom. Anme's results look promising.


----------



## 19497 (May 17, 2005)

About a month ago I took both the hydrogen breath tests for fructose and lactose. Lucky to say I am not lactose intolerant, yet I am fructose and sucrose intolerant. No one seems to know much about it. All I know is that I can not eat sugars/sugar alcohols, fruits, certain veggies....no more chocolate bars.... but I guess that is better than being bent over double in chronic pain


----------



## 19497 (May 17, 2005)

What I am wondering about is this enzyme hope that the UI speaks of. Is there hope for a better remedy? Now that I have tested positive for the fructose and sucrose intolerance will I need to continue use of omezprazole?


----------



## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:yet I am fructose and sucrose intolerant


You actually had the test for sucrose? I think you're the first person on the BB to have that done.


> quote:What I am wondering about is this enzyme hope that the UI speaks of.


Enzyme? Enzymes have *nothing* to do with fructose intolerance.


> quote:will I need to continue use of omezprazole


You don't need it now. Omezprazole couldn't have any impact at all on fructose/sucrose malabsorption.


> quote:but I guess that is better than being bent over double in chronic pain


Neither fructose nor sucrose malabsorption should really cause you pain. The pain must have some other cause.


----------



## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

For idea of fructose content in foodshttp://www.uihc.uiowa.edu/FRUCTOSE/DietBasics.htmFructose malabsorption is dose dependent.I have heard too that UI is trying to develop an enzyme. Where did you hear of it, BlazinFast? I don't know how an enzyme would help since fructose is a simple sugar and can't be broken down any more. Apparently the problem is with absorption. If you take equal amounts of glucose with fructose it is supposed to help since fructose is passively absorbed at the same time that glucose is.


----------



## 19497 (May 17, 2005)

Yes, I am both fructose and sucrose intolerant. When they gave me the solution it caused pain and other blazinfast stuff.I originally went into the doctor because the pain in my abdomen was reaching insane heights. At that point I was put on omezprazole due to extreme heartburn. The next month later I find myself on prevacid from the specialist then another month goes by and I am under the scope. (colonoscopy and EGD) both at the same time. My biopsies came back normal. Still my pain and excessive diarrhea could not be explained. That's when I went in to take the hydrogen breath tests, one week a part from each other. So, I still am wondering about the omezprazole and heartburn association with this intolerance I have. I am not allowed to have fruit or sugars. Of course I can have small amounts of Equal, but it is a no go for the splenda.I also heard of the enzyme hope through one of the links you provided in the string from UI.


----------



## 19497 (May 17, 2005)

I also wonder about diabetes and if fructose/sucrose intolerance could lead to diabetes? This I have not been able to find out. I was only diagnosed with fructose and sucrose intolerant for about one month now. I can say this...the less amount of sugars and goods with fructose have been slowly being deleted out of my foods I have noticed slight changes for the better on how my insides feel.


----------



## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

RE:"Diabetes and fructose"in spite of the fact that fructose causes less of a rise in blood glucose than sugar..... Then, why avoid fructose? Because "fructose may adversely effect plasma lipids," the ADA says. "http://www.mendosa.com/diabetes_update_28.htmAs for fructose and heartburn, I have never heard of any connection. Is your pain only in the form of heartburn or intestinal?. If it is intestinal then removing fructose can help the pain since you are FI. flux is very misleading when he says the pain has nothing to do with fructose. While it is true that there are normal people who have positive tests and display no symptoms, the fact remains that removing fructose can help with the pain in fructose malabsorbers, Technically the pain is due to hypersensitivity and fructose is a trigger i.e both are necessary in malabsorbers to to cause pain.


----------



## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

The sugar/sugar alcohol issue is not what is causing the pain.People with pain have IBS. They also happen to have a particular sugar issue. They probably had the sugar issue BEFORE they had the IBS and before then it just didn't cause IBS symptoms because they didn't have IBS.So the IBS is causing the pain, but the sugar issue may be a trigger for the IBS."Cause" has a specific meaning, especially in science. People often use cause to mean correlation which is different. But even when things are merely correlated rather than causal behavioral changes (like don't eat what is correlated with pain) still is worth doing.K.


----------



## 19497 (May 17, 2005)

I used to have pain associated with heartburn, yet I no longer have heartburn thanks to the omeprazole. Maybe I should continue to us it for that reason. Have you heard of any long term side effects using omeprazole or prilosec?I still have abdmonal cramping before I need to use the restroom and sometimes I have to really quicken my pace at work to get there.I just had a conversation with my mother who informed me that her mother and uncle are diabetic and she has to watch her sugar intake but is not diabetic. This information I did not have when I went to see the specialist. Is it possible I could have something hereditary?


----------



## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:So, I still am wondering about the omezprazole and heartburn association with this intolerance I have.


I don't see it.


> quote:I also heard of the enzyme hope through one of the links you provided in the string from UI.


Enzymes have *nothing* to do with dietary fructose intolerance.


> quote:I also wonder about diabetes and if fructose/sucrose intolerance could lead to diabetes?


I don't see this either.


> quote:flux is very misleading when he says the pain has nothing to do with fructose.


Huh?


> quoteeople with pain have IBS. They also happen to have a particular sugar issue


Did you mean they _may_ happen to have a problem with sugar malabsorption?


----------



## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Re: the enzymeWhat is the treatment for DFI?There currently is no specific enzyme developed to break down fructose. Until an enzyme is developed the only treatment is to follow the diet and include dextrose (a simple sugar) with your food.http://www.uihc.uiowa.edu/FRUCTOSE/Symptoms.htmRe:the pain and fructose:The fact remains that when malabsorbers remove fructose from their diet, the pain does go away, perhaps because the gas goes away and then they stop suffering from gas retention. flux, when you say fructose has nothing to do with pain it makes us think removing fructose doesn't help. You told me a similar thing when I was first diagnose d with FI. That my symptoms were due to IBS. So I did not take FI seriously. A few years later I removed fructose and I had zero gas. I wish I had removed fructose soon er than I did it would have saved me a lot of grief. But I was going by what you said. Blazing guts I think you should continue with omeprazole for your heartburn.


----------



## 19497 (May 17, 2005)

thanks for the info bonniei. I believe I will continue to use the omeprazole. I will need to go in to the dr. in about 2 months to get a longer prescrition period for the omeprazole. I agreee with the reducing of fructose out of the diet....definetly less gas...yet I have not made it to complete freedom. I have yet to choose a primary dr.(I only saw the specialist by referal of a general dr) so hopefully I do not have to talk to someone who knows nothing about FI.


----------



## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

I took omeprazole for five years with no adverse effects. Now I take it only occasionally. I removed alcohol from my diet considerably and that helped with the heartburn. Most docs don't know much about FI.


----------



## 20586 (Jun 2, 2005)

> quote:Originally posted by flux:Colloidal silver is not safe. Fluoride is.


 Please tell us what quantity of Flouride is safe and over what amount is toxic.Thank you.


----------



## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

How much you need and how much is toxic http://www.springboard4health.com/notebook/min_fluoride.htmlLike anything the dose makes the poison, but most people forget a lot of "toxic" compounds are actually required by the body to function properly as most vitamins and minerals if you manage to take enough of them have negative effects on the body.Like everything. None is not good, some is what you need, too much is really bad.K.


----------



## 20586 (Jun 2, 2005)

> quote:Originally posted by Kath M.:How much you need and how much is toxic http://www.springboard4health.com/notebook/min_fluoride.htmlLike anything the dose makes the poison, but most people forget a lot of "toxic" compounds are actually required by the body to function properly as most vitamins and minerals if you manage to take enough of them have negative effects on the body.Like everything. None is not good, some is what you need, too much is really bad.K.


Not to stir up strife but the site you have posted contains no scientific assertions or quotes to any scientific studies. Also no source is quoted for the statements made.


----------



## Lagomorph (Mar 4, 2005)

There was some great info. in the above four pages. I am going to ask my doctor for a hydrogen breath test. Even though the calcium carbonate helps my b.m.'s, I can only eat very bland foods or else I have to find a bathroom quickly.


----------



## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Glad you found the info useful, Lagomorph. Some more research:Not all fructose malabsorbers develop symptoms. So what is the difference?I would have thought visceral hypersensitivity would be mmore in symptomatic people but not so. They have done a study on that and found no difference in viseral hypersensitivity between symptomatics and asymptomatics. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...7093&query_hl=7However one study found"Colonic bacterial activity determines the symptoms in people with fructose-malabsorption.""The disappearance rate of fructose in the stool cultures was significantly elevated in the symptomatic group compared with the asymptomatic, but only in the anaerobic culture"So antibiotic therapy can help symptomatic malabsorbershttp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...7022&query_hl=7But another study while it did find a difference it did not find a "significant difference"(a statistical term) between bacterial activity of the symptomatics and asymptomatics. Not only that the short chain fatty acids (SCFA) were more when there was less activity so they speculate that the SCFA could play a role in preventing symptoms.I think







they need to do one more study on the effect of bacterial activity on symptoms.


----------



## 17009 (Jun 12, 2005)

Please can someone help me?








After years of bloated tummy, painful gas especially after eating fruit, constipation, unsuccessful weight loss, tiredness etc etc etc, AND loads of research I thought it a good idea to try the elimination diet to see if I have fructose malabsorption.Just a bit unsure of what is OK. I know to avoid fruit & fructose (well - derr!), sucrose, sorbitol and tomatoes.I know sucrose is made up of fructose and glucose, does that mean EVERYTHING with 'sugar' stated in the ingredients is off the menu? I notice some things say sucrose and some say sugar














What about Red Wine?!? Is the sugar all turned to alcohol, and does that make it OK?Does 'extract of' fruit or fruit oil such as lemon oil contain fructose?I use Splenda, but this contains sucralose, does this contain frutose like sucrose does?As part of my job I bottle Aromatherapy oils, including many fruit based oils derived from citrus fruits and berries. Is there fructose in these too, I quite often spill some on my hand which can easily be absorbed?Another thing is I regularl detox using detox foot pads and the ones I use have grapefruit in them for the properties of the pectin (diuretic and inhibiting carbohydrate absorption), does anyone see this as a problem?I hope someone can help. I'm doing this off my own back as my doc can be quite dismissive about stuff like this.BTW - I recently used a home enema kit and it was great! I felt much better afterwards and I highly recommend it - although I soon felt bad again after following it with a fruit only day as part of a detox plan :-( think I'll just stik to the foot pads!Sorry its about 20 questions!!


----------



## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Usually it is when the ratio of glucose to fructose is off that you have a problem. Sucrose (or table sugar or cane sugar or what they mean when they just say sugar) is equally balanced between the two so is usually better tolerated than straight fructose.With fruits it will depend on how the sugars balance out how bad it bothers you, not all fruits have the same ratios. Also it may depend on if they have sorbitol in them or not how bothersome they are. http://www.askdrsears.com/html/4/t042600.asp#T042601 ranks fruits and may help you figure some of that out.Splenda has the orginal fructose in it but the molecule does not break down at all so that isn't a problem.I don't think the oils will be a problem. Sugars are "water loving" rather than "water fearing" (hydrophilic rather than hydrophobic) so probably aren't much in the oil (hydrophobic) part of the extract (the whole oil and water don't mix thing) Usually only oils get absorbed into the skin. Hydrophillic things are more likely to be blocked rather than absorbed, which is why only a few drugs can be put in transdermal patches rather than most of them.K.


----------



## 17009 (Jun 12, 2005)

Hello Kath M, nice to meet you! That is very informative, thanks very much! I'm cutting it all out for 2 weeks and then going to re-introduce certain things one at a time. First to be re-introduced is tomatoes - I can't believe I can't eat them, nearly every meal I have has some tomato in it in some shape or form!So relieved I can still enjoy a sweet cup of coffee in the mornings, though!I'll take a look at that link a bit later - kids nagging me at the mo!Do you think I should totally cut out the sucrose (sugar) during this first part of the elimination diet? I don't eat that much sugar at all but it's really restrictive trying to exclude everything, isn't it?


----------



## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

A lot depends on how your particular elimination diet is set up. But I would probably try to keep sweet treats of any sort to a minimum, but going too crazy over it probably won't help too much.K.


----------



## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Just be careful hile eating desserts. Sucrose is absolutely okay for me. But desserts normally contain high fructose corn syrup, so read the contents carefully. So do pop and wine. Grapes contain 6.5 g of glucose and 7.6 g of fructose so the fructose : glucose ratio is a little over one but in the process of making wine I am not sure if fructose increases even more. Hard liquor like scotch, vodka are fine but if you add fruit juice to it o tonic water or pop then it would contain fructose.Anyway here is an easy t read site of the amount of fructose and glucose in fruitshttp://www.thepaleodiet.com/sugars.htm Ignore the amount of metabolic fructose on that site as that is mainly for diabetetics and includes the fructose in sucrose.


----------



## 17009 (Jun 12, 2005)

I get it - don't want to spark a massive sugar craving and ruin the whole plan by going totally drastic! There's no particular set-up to the diet, just cutting it out for 2 weeks and seeing if I feel better, then re-introducing stuff one at a time and recording the results.I found out about these charcoal and green clay supplements that are supposed to ease gas and bloating etc caused by intolerances to foods. I've ordered some to try and will let you know. I don't take anything for my IBS as I'm very much into holistic and alternative methods and am fairly detoxed so don't wish to introduce loads of chemicals into my body again. I actually feel no worse now than before when I was taking a lot of medication for IBS and was also not worrying about additives in my food, chemicals on my skin, etc and was very 'toxed' (as opposed to detoxed!). I sometimes take natural castor oil, but that's all. I'm hoping that this diet will show a cause!Thanks so much for your help


----------



## 17009 (Jun 12, 2005)

PS Thanks too to Bonniei, nice to meet you too!I was replying when you posted!I'll be busy tonight looking at these links, thanks so much for being so helpful.It is really confusing when doing this without a doctor (mine's prescription happy, not really a listener if you know what I mean!). I'm a lot clearer now


----------



## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Hi Sculptess,nice to meet you too. I found this about wine. "Table varieties with relatively high amounts of fructose (glucose-fructose ratio less than 0.9) included Beauty Seedless, Black Corinth, Canner, Early Muscat, July Muscat, Loose Perlette, Niagara, Perlette and Black Monukka. High-fructose wine varieties were Chardonnay, Chasselas dorÃ©, Feher Szagos, Green Hungarian, Pinot blanc, Pinot gris and Red Veltliner.Varieties that were relatively high in glucose (glucose-fructose ratio greater than 0.9) at the late stage of fruit maturity were Exotic, Malaga, and Muscat of Alexandria table varieties, and Burger, Chenin blanc, Early Burgundy, Emerald Riesling, Flora, Grey Riesling, La Rienha and Zinfandel wine varieties" fromhttp://www.ajevonline.org/cgi/content/abstract/18/1/33The later harvest varieties were higher in fructose


----------



## 17009 (Jun 12, 2005)

WOW! Thanks so much! May not be all that bad if I can find a wine I can have!Have you heard of these activated charcoal and green clay supplements I mentioned? I've ordered some to try, but I'm thinking of selling them in my holistic health shop as they don't seem to be easily available over here in the UK (only charcoal but not with green clay). Was just wondering if you have tried them or know of them?


----------



## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

I have not heard of green clay. But apparently once charcoal gets wet it cannot absorb gases. But it might be worth it to try it for a couple of days and convince yourself. I find Gas-X really helpsif I have a little fructose-not a lot mind you- but it could be that a lot of gas is formed in my stomach. I would highly recommend GAS-X. Whebn I go out I usually pop in a couple of GAS-=X and a Pepto one hour before going out. Pepto helps with the odor of gas, GAS-X helps to eliminate gas which is already tthere in the stomach and I find that I am on an empty stomach gas wise when I am out eating, I find this helps because fter eating the gastrocolic reflex is activaed in me fir gas and just the act of eating results in the movement of gas. It is really helpful to have no gas in the system when I eat. I think Pepto also tightens the anal sphincters although I haven't looked for research as yet on that. Some people find Pepto constipating but taking it once a day doesn't seem to affect me C-wise.


----------



## 17009 (Jun 12, 2005)

I'll let you know if they work for me (probably won't get them for about 1 week though)I have taken green clay before while detoxing. You mix a teasp of pure green clay with a glass of water, leave overnight and drink in the morning (tastes like make-up powder!) and it cleans your intestines and helps you to detox. It's just plain green clay that you can also make mud packs and body wraps with.Anyway, getting late over here now. Thanks again for info!


----------



## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Yes let us know how the green clay works out. Good luck.


----------



## Arnie W (Oct 22, 2003)

I am wondering if the green clay you describe is bentonite. I use mine in liquid form from Nature's Sunshine. It is often recommended to be used with psyllium for the purposes you wrote about. The combination gives me quite a good cleanout. I have not heard of it being used with charcoal and would be interested to learn how you get on with it.


----------



## 17009 (Jun 12, 2005)

Hi Arnie W,I'm unsure of the 'technical' name for the clay. The green clay is just pure, raw, sun-dried clay. I sell it in my Holistic shop as a raw material in the aromatherapy department. People use it to make body wraps and facial mud packs. It has excellent cleansing, exfoliating, and absorbing, drawing properties. Usually it's only used externally in beauty and skin therapy, but I recently learned of this internal use and thought I'd try it (tastes yuk). I haven't tried it regularly yet because then I found these supplements which contained green clay along with charcoal, so I thought they'd prob taste better! And they are advertised to help with gas etc caused by food intolerances. Worth a try. Hope to receive it by the weekend.


----------



## SpAsMaN* (May 11, 2002)

I think it is very available in the french world.I don't know if the're possibilities there.


----------



## 17009 (Jun 12, 2005)

Thanks SpAsMaN







Anyway, I've noticed some differences since cutting out frustose (nearly a week now). Any thoughts on the following?!?1. I seem to be able to expel the wind more easily, although it doesn't seem to have lessened. It just doesn't build up so much.2. Bloating has gone down (not permanently bloated now) but still getting bouts of bloatedness.3. Was hoping it would also ease my problems losing weight but not really any change there







4. Still constipated (even though eating plenty of roughage). May do enema again.5. My hair has turned really greasy!







6. My whole attitude to my home life (ie housework etc) & children has changed!?! Re the children - I seem to be a lot more tolerant and appreciative and have introduced some drastic changes in the way they are rewarded/punished which are having very good effects so far(touch wood). Re home life - Not getting stressed and letting things build up, just getting on with things and getting things done. I wouldn't put this down to a change in diet usually but the change has been so dramatic that it can't be ignored. I'm wondering if there is some chemical thingy going on with lack of fructose & my brain which is causing this - ANY THOUGHTS?


----------



## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Sculptess be observant. When I remove all fructose I get C. My symotoms are diarrhea and gas with fructose. I generally have to bring back fructose in a litle to relieve constipation. Maybe you can take a fiber like Citrucel as a supplement for C. But it is true that even though I tend to be on the C-side without fructose I have no gas. People generally associate constipation with gas. That is wrong of them I have discovered that oonly if I have malabsorbed stuff then it produces gas. Zero malabsorbed stuff=zero gas. That is why perhaps zero fructpose helps you gas wise.


----------



## 17009 (Jun 12, 2005)

I've never had diarrhea with my IBS. Always constipated no matter what I eat, always bloated. Its like my body's producing loads of gas and 'poo' and its just staying there. Like i said before, it seems to be able to move now a bit better but not really lessened - maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree with the fructose, although most effects I'd say are positive without it. I'm gonna see it through though. Another week with no fructose and I'll start to re-introduce things then and see what happens.


----------



## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Let us know how it goes. I was wondering what do you take for roughage if fructose is out?


----------



## 17009 (Jun 12, 2005)

Just plenty of wholemeal stuff and Weetabix or bran flakes. I try to drink plenty of water too (I know I should drink more, I try my best!)and only 1 cup of 'caffeine' a day as this causes your body to retain the water. I eat plenty of veg esp dark green stuff like spinach and cabbage. I'm veggie so I don't really have that much fatty stuff to bind me up, mostly I eat veg, nuts, seeds, pasta, rice, couscous etc and cheese. I also occasionally eat fish and seafood. Sounds really healthy, but I do love fattening things like crisps and alcohol! but they are usually off the menu!I've never really ate fruit that much as I've always had bad tummy from it, but I really love tomatoes and find I'm missing them loads!


----------



## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

But veggies and wheat cereal is fructose.


----------



## 17009 (Jun 12, 2005)

I didn't realise that. I have spoken (by email) to a doctor who specialises in IBS and food allergies, and she advised me to cut out fruit including tomatoes, anything with sorbitol, fructose, corn syrup or sucrose in the ingredients, anything made from fruit or with fruit in, but didn't mention veg, wheat, nuts or anything like that. She also said fruit flavouring was OK.I've decided anyway to 'bite the bullet' and visit my doc (when I get a minute!)If I can't eat wheat and veg, and I don't eat meat - what's left??! What do you eat, like for a typical meal?


----------



## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Sculptess, for idea of fructose content in foodshttp://www.uihc.uiowa.edu/FRUCTOSE/DietBasics.htmSo if you want to try a strict fructose-sorbitol free diet, you will have to give up veggie, fruits, wholewheat, HFCS. But do this only temporarily to observe is effect before launching permanently into it.As for what I eat when I go out I eat only chicken or fish. At home I do eat salads, just lettuce, with salmon and chicken becaue I donn't care if I have the minimal amount of gas. I find that I need the lettuce to stay regular.Have you tried Magnesium for constipation?. There are many threads in the constipation forum on Magnesium.


----------



## 17009 (Jun 12, 2005)

Wow that's great, thanks so much. I can see where I'm going wrong!I'm not feeling very good, don't know if I'm getting flu or just really run down, maybe lacking nutritionally. I think I'll visit the Doc tomorrow to see what he says about the whole thing. Probably best to do this under medical supervision anyway.Thanks for info on Magnesium, I may try that.


----------



## bonniei (Jan 25, 2001)

Good luck and hpope you feel better soon, Sculptess.


----------



## 13763 (Jul 11, 2005)

I'm not a doctor, just one more suffering soul with IBS symptoms. Sounds like you have found your villian BUT do have a doctor check you out and run the usual tests. Lots of stuff may be a part of the symptoms you are experiencing. Hope you take all the tests; they aren't painful just time consuming and then you'll know you've done everything you can to protect your health. Meantime, thanks for sharing. I did take the tests and am beginning to keepa food diary to find out what sets off my bouts with IBS.


----------



## 13763 (Jul 11, 2005)

Sounds like you have found one of the food triggers for you. I understand that fructose is used to process all kinds of products we usually stock in our kitchens. If you aren't already, become an avid label reader. You may be amazed to discover how much of the stuff is in everything from bread mixes to canned soup! Good hunting and keep us posted. I have just been diagnosed with IBS and have started a food diary. Just knowing I'm not alone really, really helps!


----------



## 17009 (Jun 12, 2005)

Hi,Thanks for the advice. I went to Doc and he said to carry on as I am just cutting down on fructose as it really seems to have helped. He also told me though that it was unhealthy for my body to be vegetarian and that I didn't 'suit' it, which I suppose I sort of knew. So I'm back to eating meat and trying to re-educate myself that it's food and not an animal!Have lost 7 pounds in a week just by going back to meat! I have been dieting and battling with my weight for so long and this is really brill! No matter how hard I tried I would not lose weight before, only put it on. Doc says my metabolism responds better to protein and I was eating loads of carbs and hardly any protein which was the reason for my weight problem!I have also been taking these Charcoal and Green Clay supplements when I get a bout and when I knw I've eaten more fructose than usual, and they really work! My bloating goes down really quick and all the girgling stops too!I am going in hospital for an op in September so may see if I can get some tests done then, but I'm feeling pretty sorted now (Touch wood!)I'd really like to thank you all for all your help. I will keep popping back occasionally, though!


----------



## 17009 (Jun 12, 2005)

Sorry MaryGee I was replying when you posted last!How long have you had IBS? I had my appendix out when I was a teen but it was healthy and I'm sure it was IBS then (almost 20 yars ago now!)Do you have weight problems too?


----------

