# Herx Reaction



## janetmtt (May 28, 2007)

Has anyone had a herx reaction to taking a probiotic? If so what syptoms did you get, how long for etc. Interested to know who suffers and who doesn't and what they took and how much?


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## Patman75 (Mar 9, 2008)

My herx reaction started on the end of week 2, it felt like a naggin flu and my BMs became very formed and my urgency was reduced. Then from weeks 3-5 my eczema got very bad and after that everything just kept improving.I made major dietary & lifestyle changes, digestive enzymes, antifungals & probiotics.


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## janetmtt (May 28, 2007)

Thanks for that. Interesting it started after two weeks of taking them.


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## Patman75 (Mar 9, 2008)

From what I have read it usually starts in week 2 when you follow the candida diet. Some sooner, some later it depends on how much you change your diet, how much probiotics you take, how much anti-funguls-antibacterials, how much proboitics you take and how bad your microbial blanace is off.IMHO you gotta reduce the bad stuff first to make room for the good bacteria. It will be more effective


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## IanRamsay (Nov 23, 2008)

the severity of teh herx is based on teh amount of bacteria that is being destroyed. if there isnt that much bacteria being destroyed there wont be much of a reaction. some people dont have any reaction at all.Ian


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## CatUK (Dec 15, 2006)

I started taking Bio-Kult only 2 days ago and have had the worst stomach pains and also been feeling very tired and queasy. Don't know it's just coincidence or if it's the Bio Kult.


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## eternalpain (Apr 3, 2009)

Sorry to be "thick" but what is a "herx"?I have started taking Lp299v probiotics after my eradication treatment for H pylori. My GP told me to top up my good bacteria by taking these. Am I likely to have some sort of adverse reaction?I have so much abdo pain as it is without making it worse! Help!


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herxheimer_reaction


> The Herxheimer reaction (also known as Jarisch-Herxheimer or Herx) occurs when large quantities of toxins released into the body as bacteria (typically Spirochetal bacteria) die, due to antibiotic treatment or rapid detoxification.It is manifested by fever, chills, headache, myalgia (muscle pain), and exacerbation of skin lesions. Duration in syphilis is normally only a few hours but can be much longer, up to months or years, for other diseases.


I'm not sure it is always appropriately used as most of the time when I hear it used the bacteria die off issues aren't when you have a large number of toxin making bacteria, but used for normal bacteria that normally do us no harm.Endotoxins can be pretty nasty things to get into that can make you pretty sick, but they are not something all bacteria make.Often used as the explaination for why an alternative treatment is making you much worse even if they aren't the specific symptoms of the type of bacteria the reaction was named for cause. Whatever you are taking must be from it working as it made you sick. Your symptoms cannot be from a directly caused side effect as they often claim all natural treatments must be side effect free, almost by definition (just don't ask about poisons like hemlock) so you can't label anything a side effect. But that is a bit cynical. There can be lots of reasons to have a side effect from a probiotic preparation that have nothing to do will killing of specific types of bacteria with particularly nasty toxins in them. One common cause is the prebiotics they put in there that really do not only feed the prebiotic bacteria. Regular normal colon bacteria will make gas from the prebiotics. There may also be something to there being a "turf war" as you have a switch over of bacteria controlling a niche. I know in cows (which may not be comparable but I know about this from friends doing research) when you switch the feed over from grass to grain the bacterial species in the stomachs change from one type predominating to another type predominating and during the switch a lot more gas is produced than before or after. In the cows that have an access port to take samples there will sometimes be so much gas produced during the switch they blow out the seal and make an awful mess of their stall.Most yogurts and other dairy based products still have a fair amount of lactose. A lot less than the milk it was made from but still enough that it may, when added to all the other things you eat that gas can be made from, be enough to cause symptoms. Some people seem to be very sensitive to small changes in gas volume.


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## IanRamsay (Nov 23, 2008)

CatIf is Herx in any of its forms, it will subside on its own within 10 -14 days. KIm interested in teh cows bacteria! was any stool samples obtained giving an idea of numbers? there was a similar study done in the UK on domestic cats going from wet food to dry food and they found similar results, but with teh cats there was also a period of D as well when teh switch was made followed by a period of C before going back to normal. ( i have just exposed my self as a geek havent I?)







cheersIan


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## janetmtt (May 28, 2007)

I've been taking aloe vera juice this week and I'm sure I'm having a herx reaction to it. Is that possible Ian? And if I should I quit then restart it again. Today I've had chills, shakes, muscles pains, feeling just yuk, headache, tired so not sure if AVJ can do that to you.


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

These were the cows with an extra hole for sampling into one of the stomachs that does some extra fermentation. I don't think they wanted to look at the colon flora so may not have looked at the stool.http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/05/us/05cows.html talks about adjusting feed to effect methane production.Googled some more and found this.http://aem.asm.org/cgi/content/abstract/67...ourcetype=HWFIGIt has someone from U of Illinois where I know a lot of that work has been done in the US.


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## IanRamsay (Nov 23, 2008)

Excellent! Thanks K.JaneI have never heard of alo vera juice causing a herx of any kind. try and stick with teh probiotics unless the symptoms get too much. if they do just stop and then re start again and see how you go.cheersIan


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## Patman75 (Mar 9, 2008)

Kathleen M. said:


> These were the cows with an extra hole for sampling into one of the stomachs that does some extra fermentation. I don't think they wanted to look at the colon flora so may not have looked at the stool.http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/05/us/05cows.html talks about adjusting feed to effect methane production.Googled some more and found this.http://aem.asm.org/cgi/content/abstract/67...ourcetype=HWFIGIt has someone from U of Illinois where I know a lot of that work has been done in the US.


I saw a bit of video about the cows with a hole in it to see how thier food was digested and sample bacteria levels. I'm having a brain freeze on where I saw it. It was pretty cool.


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## Patman75 (Mar 9, 2008)

Found some video of the cows with holes. It was not what I saw but you will get the point.http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=c...hole&aqi=g4


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## janetmtt (May 28, 2007)

Thanks Ian


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