# 20 Years of This



## HDBobbers (Aug 11, 2014)

Hi - I came across this forum while sitting at my desk at work. I shouldn't really be searching the internet for stuff like this, but things are getting out of hand again. I can't find anyone to relate to my issues, and, as far as what's wrong with me is concerned, i've been getting mis-diagnosed for years.

I'm 35 now, and i think things started to go wrong from about 15 onward. So... half of my life i've been dealing with issues that I don't understand in the least... aside from that the feeling is terrible and it is keeping me from enjoying my life.

From about 15 i was getting stomach aches. Not painful. The nauseating type. I'd get them whenever i was confronted with any sort of activity out of my normal day-to-day routine. If my routine was:

1: Wake up

2: Go to School

3: Come Home

4: Go to Sleep

... And you added a 3.5 in there where i was invited to go out to dinner, things started going south. I'd say that on the younger end i was able to cope with the issues better, but now that i'm an adult I just can't get by the feeling that half of my life has passed in front of me and i've missed it. Any sort of break in my routine sends me into a panic. Cold sweat, numb hands, nauseous stomach, feeling like i need to hit the restroom, and the inability to take my mind off of whatever activity it is that i've been invited to go to.

I brought the problem to my parents when i was a kid, and they called it a "nervous stomach", and blew it off to common nerves. The problem with that was/is, i don't always feel nervous about the situation. A good example would be my motorcycle. I build and ride motorcycles as a hobby. I love it, but every time i decide to go out for a ride i have to hit the bathroom a half dozen times in 20 minutes because of the overwhelming feeling that i need to defecate, or pee. I could be completely empty with nothing to expel, but the feeling is there.

When it comes to an event that is not of my own making, it's another story. I dwell on the situation until i'm nauseous, just short of throwing up. I get a cold sweat, but hands go numb, i get tunnel vision, the feeling that i need to get to a restroom...

Horrible...

Over the years i've tried a number of things that either havent worked at all, or just made my life worse.

- My parents sent me to a doctor who prescribed klonopin and prozac. This was just before college. Neither thing did anything for me, and in fact the prozac made me feel disconnected.

- Once in college, i went to another doctor to did away with the prozac but added zanax to the klonopin as a "take as needed" type of pill. I ate them like candy because all the time was an "as needed" situation, but they didnt help in any way.

- When i finished all of my pills with no help i started smoking lots of weed, eating lots of weed, vaping lots of weed... anything i could get my hands on. Weed was the first thing that helped me to a degree, allowing me to actually go out with friends and not feel like i was going to throw up or poop my pants. Completely illegal though, and i was spending alot of my money on it so that i could stay functional. I think i weighed in at 130lbs soaking wet at the time i graduated. The money i was supposed to use for food primarily went to weed so that i could remain functional, go to class, and graduate. Yes, i graduated with a 3.8 gpa. I wasn't a burnout... i was a functional stoner.

- Having quit weed upon graduation, i came home and detoxed. This was at 23 years old. Once it was out of my system things went back to the normal, sick, feeling. My sister was slated to be married 2 years later, and this prompted me to go back to the doctor. I was prescribed Paxil.

Right here i'm going to say that this was a new low. Paxil is an awful substance and i wouldn't wish it on anyone. As it related to my need for something to get me through my sister's wedding, and specifically being a part of the bridal party, it worked. I was so numb that i couldn't feel anything, emotionally.

Anyone that's been on paxil for any length of time also knows the side-effects that go along with it also. Zero libido for one. This may be more information than anyone needs, but, i figured i'll put it down. My girlfriend at the time thought of me as superman when it came to sex. On paxil my stamina was through the roof... or... my ability to finish was. I could go, and go, and go some more, but with no ability to finish. Sex started and finished based on what her needs were. If she wanted to go for 3 hours... yay... 3 hours we go. I received no enjoyment from the act. Ultimately this led to my eventual breakup. I stopped having sex altogether. This coupled with being emotionally stale because of the pills didn't jive with her needs, so she moved on.

And, now that that humiliating piece of information is out, the rest of the paxil history gets worse. I gained weight to the tune of about 60lbs. Constantly hot and sweating even in the winter. It is a one-a-day pill, and if you miss that dose by even a few hours you get what i call the "zaps". Electric shocks that go through your body, behind your eyes, and give you a shot of vertigo. It's an awful feeling.

Years into my paxil stint, i started needing to up my dosage to ward off the zaps. My body was accustomed to having the drug and the tolerance was high. I was taking double what my original prescription had been.

So, this all led me to attempt to quit the paxil. I made 3 serious attempts to quit with doctor supervision, using pill slicing to reduce my intake over time. All 3 attempts failed. The withdrawal was so bad that after a few weeks of being miserable in a constant state of sickness i put myself back on. Two years ago i made my last attempt to get myself off the drug. It was a cold-turkey quit. I signed myself up for a gym and lifted weights through 5 months of shitty withdrawal symptoms. The time at the gym was the only part of the day where the feelings subsided. The exertion and fatigue got me through a few hours of the day, every day, but the other waking hours were something else entirely. I felt like killing myself. That's not me alliterating to wanting to end the withdrawal... that was me actually wanting to kill myself. I can't tell you how scary it is to constantly think about what the best way would be to kill yourself, where to do it, what to use... it wasn't good.

Aside from the gym, i joined an after work support group. That got me through the rest of the night until it was time to sleep... which i didn't. Insomnia related to the detox kept me from sleeping days on end. Going to work during the day was an experience, though i'm lucky enough to have a boss who kept people away from me during that time. My fuse was so short that i actively had to tell myself not to beat people into a bloody pulp with my bare hands. I came close a few times. I'm lucky to still have a job.

Eventually i came out of the withdrawal. It took nearly 7 months to fully cleanse the Paxil out, and for the last 2 years i've been drug free.

That said, my old issues are still here with my stomach, bathroom runs, and overall inability to break any sort of routine without feeling sick. I'm so averse to prescriptions now that i've kicked paxil that i'm leery of going to a doctor to even discuss the issues. I've never had luck in the past 20 years, so my faith in medicine is gone. I do not know what to do now. I don't know what i have that is making me the way i am, and i'm tired of it... really tired. I don't want to spend much more time like this.

I apologize for the length of this thing. I never get to talk to anyone about this.


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## lookingforanswers2014 (Jan 31, 2014)

go look up vsl#3 n see if u wanna give that a shot in case u never heard of it. i used to get the impression from the side that acted like therre no cure.


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## CanadianGuy (Aug 11, 2014)

Hey HDBobbers. Thank you for your story. Sorry to hear that you've been putting up with this for 20 years.

Have you ever been checked for SIBO, had a hydrogen/methane lactulose breath test, GI Effects stool ecology test, tried herbal medicines (other than the one herbal medicine you mentioned) such as peppermint oil, oregano oil, skullcap, chamomile etc?

If cannabis worked so well for you why did you stop? Did you ever try any of the low THC strains? I'm curious to know if the high from the THC is what worked for you or if these high-CBD low-THC oils in the news that help kids with epilepsy also help for the spasming or cramping of IBS.

With how debilitating my symptoms have been over the last year, more so than the last 12 years that I've dealt with this, I've done a lot of research on cannabis. I've tried so many herbal and alternative medicines and I believe cannabis to be no different, other than it being demonized for over 50 years because it has psychoactive effects and recreational use compared to other herbal medicines. If the stigma is that cannabis makes people unproductive stoners, but IBS is actually making you an unproductive and cannabis brings you back to a point where you can function in society, that's worth paying attention to.

I tried smoking cannabis once in the past, but being new to it it made me feel a little anxious. My GI issues already flare up some anxiety occasionally so I didn't really give it a chance beyond that and haven't tried to see if it helps with my IBS. I suppose you develop a level of tolerance if you use it regularly. If I lived in a state or country where it was legal I probably would've tried high CBD, low THC oral oils by now. I'm not interested in getting high but if cannabis took the bite out of a spasm attack and I figured that out 10 years ago, I'd probably be a protester by now. I'd appreciate your feedback on this part.

I've been avoiding anti-depressants for as long as I've had IBS, always afraid to emphasize how much IBS was interfering with my life to doctors who all used to seem to think that I was causing all of my symptoms or that it was all in my head. I always told them that anxiety comes after the IBS, it doesnt cause it, it's the other way around.

Nowadays there seem to be more doctors who are willing to look for actual potential physical causes. "A New IBS Solution" by Dr Mark Pimentel wasnt even written until 2006. The doctors on the cutting edge knew a lot less about IBS 20 years ago than they do today and they'll probably know a lot more in 20 years from now too. I'm sure there are more things you could try than just anti-depressants.


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## Nojokeibs (Apr 14, 2014)

Hi HDBobbers and Welcome!

What you're describing to me sounds like a vagus nerve issue. That hasn't hit mainstream medicine yet, except for neurologists, so my advice is to see one.

http://ibs.about.com/od/ibsglossarypz/g/Vasovagal-Reflex.htm?utm_term=vagys%20nerve%20symptoms&utm_content=p2-main-4-title&utm_medium=sem-unp&utm_source=&utm_campaign=ocode-4349&ad=&an=&am=&q=vagys%20nerve%20symptoms&dqi=&o=4349&l=dir&qsrc=0&askid=

or for more broad info:

vagus nerve symptoms search


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## CanadianGuy (Aug 11, 2014)

I've often wondered about the role different things play in IBS that seem to be related.

- Bacteria, yeast, parasites, etc including pathogens, dysbiosis, and bacterial overgrowth or SIBO.

- Neurotransmitters that regulate gut function such as acetylcholine and serotonin.

- The vagus nerve and the parasympathetic/vs sympathetic nervous system.

Lately I've found Dr Mark Pimentel's information interesting, about how he claims that *certain types of bacteria, when overgrown out of place in the small intestine, produce exotoxins *and that these exotoxins can mess around with what he calls the cleansing waves of the small intestine.

So if methane producing bacteria, for example, produce some sort of exotoxin that messes up peristalses (the movement of the intestines), then how do these exotoxins work? Do they somehow mess up how these neurotransmitters are supposed to work in that area of the intestine, and could these drugs such as Tegaserod (now removed from the market) really be overcompensating or balancing out the effect that these bacteria have on this role serotonin plays in the gut? Maybe this action of the bacteria is what causes the bowel to cramp or knot up in places and eventually leads to further dysbiosis, furthering their survival, these supposedly symbiotic partners of ours now becoming parasitic in some sense. Maybe this effect on these neurotransmitters has some sort of systemic effect, and even though the blood brain barrier exists, maybe the messed up situation in the gut with neurotransmitters leaves less for the brain to work with causing anxiety, depression or other neurological symptoms people with IBS end up dealing with. On top of this just the constant stress might wear people out psychologically and lead to these neurological symptoms.

I've also wondered if the vagus nerve and parasymptatic and sympathetic nervous system has a role to play. Many times I would have a cramping or swimming stomach that would seem to trigger anxiety or even a panic attack, even when I am in relaxing situations and circumstances. Maybe these bacterial exotoxins somehow trigger the sympathetic nervous system which causes the increase in heart rate, an adrenaline rush, and causes the bowels to seize up and regular movements of the bowels to go haywire for a fight or flight moment. Supposedly people with a balance towards sympathetic nervous system are the ones who tend to be anxious, have weak or easily upset stomachs, while people with parasympathetic (said to be the "rest and digest mode") predominance are said to have iron stomachs, less incidence of an over 100 bmp heart rate, less anxiety, and other related psychological symptoms.

So when I hear that it's a vagus nerve issue, or that it's a neurotransmitter issue, I can't help but wonder what the underlying mechanism is that causes these things to go out of balance. Maybe gut ecology has a role to play in those as well, or perhaps it really is a neurotransmitter issue and that results in bacterial dysbiosis. I like to think that ultimately the main causes of these imbalances are what we put into our bodies, both in terms of what we put into our minds through our experiences (stressful or traumatic experiences especially) or the foods and chemicals we put into our bodies and how this keeps things on track or throws the train off of the rails, so-to-speak.


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## HDBobbers (Aug 11, 2014)

LDW said:


> Hi HD Bobbers,
> 
> Have you been to a Gastroenterologist doctor for your stomach? It would be a good idea to be checked out. You didn't say if you had diarrhea with all the bathroom visits? Do you have problems with food sensitivities? My problems started from stress and numerous antibiotics for sinus infections. I was also on birth control for several years which also did harm to my gut. Almost 13 years ago my only son died from an construction accident in which he took over 400 amps of electricity - he was never the same after that. Within two years of his accident he committed suicide. The stress from losing him and my job did my stomach in. One year after that my Dad died. My husband and I have lost over 20 people on both sides of our families in a fourteen year period. Sometimes life is so sweet and sometimes it's a ######. You need to investigate these health problems so that you can go on with your life. You are much too young to be worrying and getting so nervous and sick over this. Please see another doctor. Sometimes we have to go through several doctors before we get answers. I myself had to go to 4 doctors before I got some answers. I wish you the very best.
> 
> ...


LDW, thanks for responding. I have not had the opportunity to go to a Gastroenterologist for the issues. I think, mainly, the reason has been that all the doctors i see relate my problems to anxiety and the the stomach affect is secondary.

Visits the the restroom don't produce diarrhea, though i am loose. The visits happen whether i have something inside to expel or not. I could sit there with the overwhelming urge to go, but i don't. I'm not constipated, so i'm not backing up. The urge is strong though to the point that i have to sit there for a while. Most of the time if this is happening i also have severe nausea. Blood drains from my face and i go white as a sheet. Cold sweat and dizzy. It's happened twice in the past only, but i've blacked out from it. Wake up on the floor having fallen down and ripped a towel hanger off the bathroom wall one time, and the other i had apparently slumped off of the toilet.

Regarding those blackouts... 3 doctors told me that they were unrelated to anything, though I don't know what to think. It's only happened twice, but it happened when i was in the restroom at my house.

As for food sensitivity, there are some things i limit. Cheeses, anything too oily or greasy, milk chocolate, spicy food. Certain cheeses i can eat without issue, but others just destroy me. I could eat a wheel of Brie with zero issues, but if i take a few slices of Cheddar or American i pay for it later. I tend to cook fairly light, and everything is from scratch. No preservatives, lots of vegetables.


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## HDBobbers (Aug 11, 2014)

CanadianGuy said:


> Hey HDBobbers. Thank you for your story. Sorry to hear that you've been putting up with this for 20 years.
> 
> Have you ever been checked for SIBO, had a hydrogen/methane lactulose breath test, GI Effects stool ecology test, tried herbal medicines (other than the one herbal medicine you mentioned) such as peppermint oil, oregano oil, skullcap, chamomile etc?
> 
> ...


CanadianGuy, thanks for responding.

I've tried peppermint oil, chamomile, and of course the cannabis. I have had a stool ecology test by my PCF, though there is no yielded result other than normal. The rest... SIBO, lactulose breath test, etc... new to me. I came here looking for information from people that can relate (thank you to the people that responded or contacted me).

I stopped the cannabis because of the legality issues associated to it in my state. I made attempts to receive prescriptions for it, but the laws in Connecticut are very specific in what ailments can receive it as a treatment method, and... they are pretty severe. AIDs/HIV, Chrohn's, Cancers, Glaucoma, etc. There are inclusions in the laws that talk about anxiety as it relates to cannabis treatment, and that it is not acceptable. Since every doctor i see relates my issues to anxiety, i'm out of luck. I could tell them every second of every day that the cannabis works for me and enables me to be productive, but it falls on deaf ears.

I could obtain it by other means, but when it comes to my job... i need my job. I can't risk using it when my company has a potential for testing and terminating employees that do not follow the "non use" clauses.

I will tell you this about cannabis... it took me a while to get used to it. Like you, i got more anxious when i used it, though i found that was because i was anticipating it too much. The less i ingrained it into my routine the more normal the act of smoking/eating/vaping/etc seemed and the whole anxious feeling went away and just left me relaxed. This is all dependent upon the grade you get as well. If i get some dirty shwag full of stems and seeds with a low THC level and tasting awful, i'm going to feel blah. If i get some high grade my mood is improved, i'm relaxed, and i want to get up and do something.

Understand that when i was using it to self medicate through college i was using it sparingly. If i got my hands on the right stuff, i could just take a couple of puffs and it would make me comfortable enough to get through class with minimal issues. I kept a dugout and bat on me all the time to just hit it and go to class. Recreationally, that's a different story and more or less irrelevant.

If i can get a doctor to recognize something other than the anxiety aspect i'd be overjoyed.


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## HDBobbers (Aug 11, 2014)

Nojokeibs said:


> Hi HDBobbers and Welcome!
> 
> What you're describing to me sounds like a vagus nerve issue. That hasn't hit mainstream medicine yet, except for neurologists, so my advice is to see one.
> 
> ...


Nojokeibs, thank you... some of this stuff does sound like what i get:


Dizziness
Sweating
Light-headedness
Nausea
Person turns pale
Ringing in ears
Fainting

Though, i see it talks about a reduction in heart rate. When things hit me bad i don't feel a reduction. It feels the same rate, though it feels like it's slamming in my chest.

I'm going to look into it though... this seems pretty close...


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