# Rectal burning from acidic foods, vinegar, etc. Possible pH factor? - Anyone else?



## drewstone (Dec 23, 2000)

Itï¿½s actually kind of funny(just a pity that it isnï¿½t), posting to the world at large the fact that my rear end ï¿½burnsï¿½ after eating tomatoes or citrus and such. Oh well, nothing like pain and discomfort to break the barriers down!This has been something my father had and I have had sporadically since a teenager so it is not new; however I am beginning to wonder if it plays into my IBS/Pain scenario as a ï¿½weak linkï¿½. After reading all this stuff about Bacterial Overgrowth and a not enough gastric acid allowing the ï¿½bad guysï¿½ to survive in the small intestines (such as: improper bacteria; parasites ï¿½ that is where Giardia hangs out; and shhhh...candida possibly; etc.) it has peaked my interest in the whole pH aspect. Unfortunately the stuff I can most readily find is the ï¿½scare tacticsï¿½ diatribe about how imbalanced pH causes just about every disease you would never want. I think I trust this Board more than that schtick. So, does anyone else experience a kind of periodic or constant ï¿½rectal burning/itchï¿½ associated with acidic foods??? I also get it from honey, but that may be because I joined the bee club at boarding school just so that I could get some more to eat than what the prefects left us; we used to drink pure honey because we were so hungry! Needless to say I probably developed an ï¿½allergyï¿½ to it?! That aside, this ï¿½burningï¿½ is mostly called ï¿½Pruritus aniiï¿½ (itchy rear is good enough) and is pretty common. My interest is to know if the gastric acid or bile is involved (sure feels like it!) and if so if there is some kind of ï¿½imbalanceï¿½ that has led to the IBS being able to settle in etc. Plus it is just a pain in the butt of course - however, a walk in the park compared to the IBS proper!!! PLEASE SEE MY OTHER POST TOO RE ACID INDIGESTION AS THIS QUESTION IS RELATED. Any insights or ideas much appreciated. Drew.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

The most likely cause is due to sensitivity of the rectal nerves.The pH of foods you eat has no bearing on the other end. The pH of feces is determined by how much undigestible carbs you eat and how well your bacteria turn them into fatty acids and how well these acids are absorbed by the colon. You want the pH of the colon to be somewhat acidic since that means it producing fatty acids for the nourishment of the colonic mucosa (a primary reason for taking probiotics). However, too much acid could indicate an overload of carbohydrates (malabsorption).


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## azvessey (Dec 23, 2000)

Hey Drew. I can identify with most of what you have said but my answer to a remarkably similar scenario has more to do with chronic low blood pressure, gut dysbiosis and simple sugars. I cant make the low BP or the dysbiosis go away but total abstinence of simple sugars totally removes the problem of the burning 'ring'. I am also a believer in restraint with the consumption of carbohydrates and aditionally try to consume a balance of the four major food groups: carbs, fats, protein and alcoholCheers, Tony.


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## drewstone (Dec 23, 2000)

Flux...Thanks for the reply. What would you consider an 'optimal' pH for the gut at the rear end of the process? I guess that would be a pH measurement of the stool? Great Smokies makes a big deal out of it in their CDSA (Comprehesive Digestive Stool Analysis) though it never seemed to lead to much (as has been noted on the BB re Great Smokies and their 'definitive' aka "undefinitive"?? tests!)and some of the raw food types assure the world that you are in deep doodoo if your pH is NOT alkaline...like over 7.5 or so. This all may be a red herring but seeing as I am probing "acidity" right now, may as well conclude it a bit more. Thanks! Drew.


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## LUCIA (Nov 1, 2000)

HI EVERYBODY. What type of cream or ointment do you use when your butt burns after a B.M? I have resorted to using a baby rash oinment. It creates a protective barrier. Sometimes, I use prep-H. I even use baby wipes. What do you use? I would really like to know.------------------


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## Guest (Feb 28, 2001)

On Dr. Weils' website, he posted some advice that has worked for me. He said that after cleaning the rectal with water (no soap), to moisten some toilet paper with witch hazel (available at most pharmacies, and not expensive) and put it on the area that stings, burns, and itches. For a few seconds, it will sting a little, but then it will relieve the soreness, and after a short while the skin will feel ever so much better. This advice has worked for me--much better than ointments, because witch hazel dries the skin and allows it to heal better. I put witch hazel on the rectal area every morning, after a shower. For me, it has been such a relief. I don't even need the ointments most of the time. Only when my hemorrhoids or fissure really act up, and I need an ointment for extra lubrication. Otherwise, the witch hazel is enough, and it's cheaper.


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## Guest (Feb 28, 2001)

I went to a proctologist for this problem.He told me never to use toilet paper if i'm at home.Always rinse in the bath tub and use a hair dryer to dry off.Sounds kind of funny but it works for me.He was a doctor in the Army and his senior doctor told him this.Something like be allergic to your own self.


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

A QUICKIE FOR DREW:Missed ya....been preoccupied...still am but:1. pH isue already answered2. for acute relief of pain lidocaine ointment works very well (see first aid section at drugstore); if it is chronic a preparation of mixing the lidocaine ointment with a little Maalox and some cornstarch to make a smooth paste can be used for "prophylaxis"...keeps the exposure to the high lidocaine concentration down...don't need so much if you use the "paste" routinely 'til one finds the cause of the nerve response (see below)3. suggestions re: witch hazel also was good...can buy TUCKS at drug store for cleansing (contains witch hazel...use in hospital for anal irritation)4. the hypersensitivity of the anal area, while comorbid in certain types of infection but you would have other symptoms...see stool cultures....is of course a result of nerve hypersensitivity. You have to find out what is MAIKING the nerves react and/or causing an acute inflammatory reaction topically to which they are reacting...can be either or both. I think that was your question.This can be problematic as there are substances (chemical components) of some foods which can and will remain in the post-digestive waste products which can cause localized acute inflammatory response in some people. IF they can do this at the anus and this were hte source, it would be surprising if you were not also having symptoms of at least a mild acute inflammatory response in the nerves of the bowel wall as well ("pseudoallergy" or chemical inflammatory response). This could make itself known several ways, or could be hidden by certain medications you might be on (spasmolytics for example).Do any other symptoms of "bowel" trouble routinely precede the onset of the anal pain by hours or even a day or more? Also, Does it itch too or just burn? **Forget about the food intake just for a minute as the pattern may or may not be specific** come back to food later...just try to construct any symptom cycle that may exist besides the acute pain.Be back later if I can or tomorrow to observe if any clues.have a BFDMNL__________________ www.leapallergy.com


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## Lefty (May 18, 1999)

Another possible cause of rectal burning is the bile and stomach acid content that goes through the system quickly, thereby not being broken down enough to be the proper ph to not cause burning. (technically, its still digesting) Happens to me when my system is in "high gear" and I rapidly pass my food, along with the other stuff that's supposed to be breaking it down.I also use the Tucks when my D is real bad (as it has been the past two weeks) and I believe I heal a little faster down there, too, when I use the Tucks. It also has glycerin in it.Please excuse my rough layman's attempt to describe this....I am sure flux will elaborate and more accurately explain what I mean...


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## WD40 (Jun 7, 1999)

Ok I haven't seen this addressed yet, but sometimes (like lately) I have been getting a mild "burning" sensation when I pass gas. I would even go so far as to say that some "bursts" cause what feels like muscle pain and then the acid-like feeling. This CAN'T be normal. I mean, I understand a bit of burning when I have D (love Tucks!) but passing gas?


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## Sequoia (Feb 28, 2001)

I am amazed that you who have posted don't take Zantac-an acid inhibitor-I have been taking it for years and it is wonderful!!! I take 150mg. am/pm. It is the one drug of choice for my IBS! Try and hopefully you too can benefit! No more fire from behind and within.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:Another possible cause of rectal burning is the bile and stomach acid content that goes through the system quickly


Well, stomach acid couldn't do that; it's neutralized in the small intestine and probably neither could bile unless it were malabsorbed and that would give you diarrhea.


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## marianne (Jan 3, 1999)

Here's a very simple and practical solution if you feel that acid is coming out of your colon and burning your anus. (I get this from time to time) Sitting on the toilet, give yourself a small enema with clear water. (I saved an old fleet enema bottle for this purpose - it only holds about 8 ox of water). Repeat. This dilutes any acid in the colon and gives quite a bit of relief. If the body tissue around the anus continues to burn, simply fold a piece of toilet tissue and put it between your cheeks. No, it's never fallen out and embarrassed me. This is a great help also if you get anal fissures.


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## Clancy Garner (Apr 5, 2000)

Drew,Sometime is a major flare up, you know 12+ trips a day, it just get raw... I use tucks wipes that I keep in my briefcase for that.I also have internal hemmoroids which sometimes flare up with the IBS. When they bleed, any stool passing over them REALLY burns, can even bring tears. For those events I have prescription cortisone suppositories. The usually help preety quickly.Somedays it just gets so bad that you'll have to wipe several times in the same visit and then cannot sit down for 15 minutes afterwards. On those days do all you can... but really, for me, the only thing that often gets me through is past experience. I know tomorrow is often much better.


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## Guest (Mar 2, 2001)

Yeah,I get that. Not as much as previously.I had hemorrhoids as well as IBS when Iwent in last fall to see the doc. I nowavoid lugging around too much videoequipment at one time. That took care ofthe H's. When I had an H burst and I hadthe IBS, that was the turning point to seekmedical help. So, the H is one factorin a burning butt. The other is acidfoods, like you all said. And please NOhot sauce or heavy seasoning ever again.That's a definite source of burning butt.------------------Jim


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## HereIam (Mar 1, 2001)

Have had similar problems. This is common in people who also suffer from eczema--seems like we are very sensitive to acidity and break out w/skin rashes and fired up rear end. I stay away from all citrus and acidic foods and I have solved the problem by taking calcium--it is "base" and neutralizes the acid in your guts that cause the burning in the butt.


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## drewstone (Dec 23, 2000)

Thank you all for the insights and ideas. It sounds like some of you are in much worse shape than me on this one - I'm sorry to hear that; who needs it, right!?My primary reason for posting this was the clues I have been tentatively seeing on "acidity" in relation to IBS. For those who have the 'rectal itch' you know that it sure kinda feels like an 'acid' burn at times...Hence the wondering about acid (or bile) further up in the digestive system. Flux makes the point that the pH of foods ingested does not really affect the pH of the stool per se, but rather what happens to the carbos, in particular, in the digestion process . If this be so then the "food specific" reaction (e.g. to citrus, vinegar, tomatoes, kiwi fruit, etc.) would indicate more of a "food intolerance" or the like??? This then creates some inflammation or reaction that then triggers a 'nerve response' at the rectal area and/or a chemical response in the gut that then causes the burning on exit???This sounds reasonable and basically could be termed an "allergy" for all intents and purposes. Just an "allergy" that happens with 'acid' foods!?So, maybe I have come full circle here and just know a little more detail on what I already know ï¿½ acid foods do not work for me! Back to acidity then...Sequoia mentioned Zantac. Part of my query has to do with the idea that inhibiting acid (or the amount of acid) at the stomach can lead to problems in the small bowel. Pete's stuff about Bacterial Overgrowth seems to imply that if the acid is insufficient it does not keep the small intestine 'sterile' and free of pathogenic opportunists. But...I thought that the bile was alkaline and it's point of entry was at the start of the small intestine??? (I don't know my physiology so could be off here). So if any acidity were to get through to the colon and rear end should it not have neutralized by the bile anyway? Hence maybe it is "Bile Burn" and not 'acid burn' if that were the case??? After all, Sodium Hydroxide can do a pretty good job on demolishing skin! Flux points this out too re the neutralizing, but am not sure that bile can't get all the way through if there are things out of wack!?I guess I do not know enough to be able to piece together a possible supposition that the end result of a burning rear could be an indicator of a condition further up that is an "allowing factor" for the IBS somehow?! The food intolerance one is obviously worth looking at but we all already knew we reacted to those acid foods, etc. so had that covered. The question of whether THAT was linked to the IBS is the fish still dangling on the line for me. Can anyone add to this???P.S. Mike NLï¿½Am on no meds at all at present; last was Effexor XR at very low dose dropped in November. Have not seen any other ï¿½pre-conditionsï¿½ to the pattern that I am aware of. Best, Drew.


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

DREW!ach du lieber....It took so long to work down the threads to here that my wife just called and is being somewhat demanding that I come home so she can go to this silly mall place whatever that is. All I know is it is someplace that makes money disappear and clothes I cannot wear (at least not in public) appear.I know I emailed I would post in reply today...I promise to come back in the morning and talk. It is impossible at home since I will have BabyNL climbing all over me and the keyboard if I even turn it on.I shall return!Gen. Douglas McArthNL.AkAk._________________ www.leapallergy.com


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## marianne (Jan 3, 1999)

I hope everyone will just try the simple water enema. It's very practical and works. That is, if you are looking for relief and not complicated answers.


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

DREW>Hi Between the post and the e-mail I have a lot of info on you to "digest" (little IBS joke eh..yeah very little). Some of the confusion comes from trying to absorb so much information at once that is of necessity oversimplified and vague, thus making some things seem conflicting.One thing I will point out from an email (I don't know if it was posted up there) there are chemicals in some foods which will relax the sphincter in question between the stomach and esophagus and aggravate your GERD and it is not related to food allergy or intolerance or any "abnormal immunologic response" per se. A food diary studied closely would help reveal a possible simple source for the appearence of that problem before starting to consider drug intervention.Also the response relative to gas reduction can denote one or more things when it is reduced by dietary modification....to determine which takes a certain systematic evaluatuion of the information before and after that is beyond the present time-constraint. Howver one thing is for sure: you removed something that was leading to gassiness so whatever the etiology, it was a "good thing you did".Coming at your diet full bore to learn about how food and additives are impacting your symptoms is smart.The best way to get the maximum amount of info in front of you in a form you can "digest" (whoops again) would be to get Dr. Brostoffs book on the subject, since he is the leading authority. This book would answer not only 99% of your questions but give you specific strategies to use yourself in dietary modification which have been shown to be very effective. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/089...6487508-3420903 In fact, if you get the book (under $20) and do not feel it helped you, I will buy it off you and give it to a patient. Just don't let the dog drool on it, OK?Have a DFWEMNL________________ www.leapallergy.com


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## Guest (Mar 5, 2001)

Drew, one last thing: My GI doc said to try eliminating dairy for a week,to see if the stinging and itching lessened. I laughed, but he was right. I still get it from a hemorrhoid and a fissure from time to time,, but as long as I avoid citrus, tomato, and most dairy, I'm a LOT better. It used to be an almost everyday thing. I can have a little milk, say, 1/3 cup on cereal, but no more. Cheese, because it's fermented, doesn't seem to bother me.


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## Guest (Mar 6, 2001)

Drew thanks so much for replying. I have been reading the BB for days since I first discovered it was online and have never seen the subject addressed. I really thought I was the only one to suffer with this.I can only tell you that dairy seems to be the greatest trigger to this problem although lately I have taken citrus fruits and juices off my menu because I suspect they are also a problem.I dont know what other information I can give you. My stomach swells, I get severe cramping and gas. The explosive diarrhea occurs within a few hours of ingesting something I should not. This is something with milk or cheese hidden in it. Quantity does not seem to matter. Then, the burning sensation and if I cannot soak in a tub right away, the bleeding begins - minutely. There is also itching and I wondered at times if I had worms because that was the feeling I had. Having stool samples tested eliminated that possibile culprit.The stools are soft and full of mucus for a couple of days and the burning continues until that situation is corrected.If there is anything else I can add, please ask.a.w.


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## Guest (Mar 6, 2001)

Another thought, I also have hemorroids which flare up at these times. I have found that Tucks can be fairly expensive so I use baby wipes. They have Witch Hazel as well so do the job. There are now femine wipes available in sealed packets and are great for when you go out.


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

A & W:Wow. Talk about a "textbook case". I recommend without reservation you obtain this book. It is something you will find very very useful to learn about what causes this and how to learn to avoid these symptoms consistently. I had to go through that for over 35 years before beating it: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/089...6487508-3420903 You can beat that I am very sure. From the symptoms it should not be an overwhelming job to isolate accurately the specific offending substances.Eat Well. Think Well. Be Well.MNL_______________ www.leapallergy.com


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## AD (Jan 23, 2000)

I get this from time to time when everything comes out with greater force. It seems the friction of the fast movement creates the burning for me. It always results in a complete colon emptying for me though. Besides, the burning has never lasted longer than half an hour. I use Vaseline.


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## Chatty (Jan 9, 2005)

I am a new member and I had to reply to this one. I have the answer to anal burning. It is a lip balm called CARMEX. Once applied it instantly cools and heals. It is WONDERFUL!! I have been using this product for ten years and I do not go any where without it. I have been reading this site since the withdrawal of lotronex and have found out though this site that taking calicum could control my D attacks - and it has.


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## mitchell goldstein (Apr 6, 1999)

chatty, remind me never to kiss you!!


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## drewstone (Dec 23, 2000)

Ditto...Carmex kiss??!! Though also remind me not to stand behind you AD! Maybe you could sell the technology to NASA for a new propulsion system...might defray some the medical bills!Sorry; sometimes I just have to crack up at all these things we go through! THANKS FOR ALL THE GREAT FEEDBACK....Drew.


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## LUCIA (Nov 1, 2000)

Hey guys, Chatty just gave us great information. I went and bought the stuff and it works for me. Now my butt is smooth, cool, and kissable.I don't have a serious pain problem presently, so it worked great for me. Don't knock it until you have tried it.Chatty don't pay attention to these guys, they are just having fun.It's nice to feel well enough to laugh once in awhile. Sooner or later, we all get picked on. It has already happened to me but it's okay, we are all in the same boat.------------------


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## Guest (Mar 8, 2001)

Regarding the burning, itchy rectum, I simply wipe good and then take one square of toilet tissue, fold it into a small piece, and put it at the rectum area. This relieves all of the burning and itchy feelings. Works great and is a simple solution. Always use WHITE, not colored, tissue because the dye in the colored tissue can cause some people to have an allergic reaction. Hope this helps.------------------Mildred


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## Guest (Mar 8, 2001)

It doesn't take a recal rocket scientist to know that any itching of the butt is hemorrhoids! That is the FIRST thing you gotta look into. Well, don't LOOK to much!







------------------Jim


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## Chatty (Jan 9, 2005)

Mitchell and Drewstone - I purchase Carmex in the jar for my hinie and purchase the tube for my kissable lips.Lucia - thanks for your support.


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## mitchell goldstein (Apr 6, 1999)

chatty, as long as you never get confused i will now kiss you!


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