# Stool - sink or swim?



## Guest (Aug 25, 2000)

Hi everyone,Can someone explain to me what it means when stool floats versus stool that sinks? Which is normal? What causes the not normal one to float or sink?Thanks







(What a nice question for first thing in the morning, huh?)







Fiona


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## becjo (Sep 16, 1999)

This is a good morning conversation







I had heard once that if it floats, it healthy stool. If it sinks, its full of toxins in your body. I don't know how accurate that is but I remember hearing something about it when that lady from Taxi, Marylou something?, was promoting her diet book which involved no meat, not hardly any dairy if any at all. But I remember her saying that because it stuck in my head. Maybe someone had her book or has done her plan and knows more details.


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## rebel (Jul 17, 2000)

Go to http://www.discoveryhealth.com Do a search on excessive gas. Some where in all the information they give u on gas, it explains that floaters are made by ppl that produce methane. Thats why they float. That is also why your gas stinks. Meth=pu! Thats how I understood it any way.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:If it sinks, its full of toxins in your body.


No, all stool contains toxins. That part of the reason one has stool.Gas in the stool is the *only* thing that makes it float. This is either healthy or not depending upon one's perspective.Odor is not caused by methane. That has no smell, but from the trace gases, hydrogen sulfide, methanethiol and dimethyl sulfoxide (and from consumed compounds with an odor).[This message has been edited by flux (edited 08-25-2000).]


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

Too much fat in the stool will also make it float (steatorrhea). Anything that inhibits the emulsification of the fat can cause this, but it is most often seen in celiac (sprue) conditions.


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## Guest (Aug 25, 2000)

Gee, you guys sure know your stool!







I guess it really doesn't matter if stool sinks or floats then? When I have a BM, half of it sinks and half of it floats... that's what I find odd.That's probably more about me than you ever wanted to know!







Fiona


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:Too much fat in the stool will also make it float (steatorrhea)


No, it's an old medical myth. Persons with celiac also malabsorb carbs giving them gas, so they had steatorrhea and gas and apparently some doctors had years ago mistakenly assumed the floating was due to the fat, but it's actually the gas.


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## cmack (Jun 30, 2000)

I am not sure what to believe - it seems like everyone is contradicting eachother. I guess we just need to take everything with a grain of salt, huh?


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

WOW, FLux. Just to make sure, I went and dusted off the old trusty MM to check for mythology. I know the Merck Manual does not have all the newest stuff but I did not know that it was written by old wives telling tales. I will make a note to redact the contents of pages 295 and 296.And I guess the docs still using fecal fat measurements and finding a lot of fat in floating stool must be seeing something different than those fat globules in there all of a sudden. So if the fecal fat content is high based on a multi-day collection and measurement, and the stool floats, it is what, illusory?


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

Yep, when a myth is spread by doctors what are we to do?














spreading the







[This message has been edited by flux (edited 08-25-2000).]


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## bkitts (Jun 1, 1999)

Depends on what you eat... How's that for a simple common sense answer....------------------Breck (Atlanta) "Chronic Pain""His strength is made perfect in my weakness"


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

FLUX:RE: MYTHOLOGY OF THE FLOATING STOOL and STEATORRHEAAre you saying that steatorrhea does not make stool float, or that steatorrhea associated with sprue does not make stool float, or that steatorrhea symptomatic of any malabsorption disorder is a myth, or associated with celiac disease is a myth...I am thoroughly unclear which of these aspects of accepted diferential diagnosis is mythology.(??) Can you clarify your pronouncement?Also, in the interests of advancing the art and understanding of whichever statement is mythologic, and since I have never read anything describing the subject as mythology, and admittedly I am unable to read every single thing that is written everywhere or hear every postulate, please assist my continuing education by posting the reference from which the stated conclusions are drawn or formed.NOT that it is a "burning issue" (except, as BKITTS suggests, That can depend upon what you eat), but I am interested in what resources and resource persons exist which have revealed whichever it is that is now myth to be myth. This is of particular interest when certain practices continue in clinical use as diagnostic tools. So when something in the MM is rendered obsolete or otherwise defunct, it is good to know from whence the renderings came. Enlightenment is always welcome.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

All that just to ask "how do I know this?" Whew.Anyway, steatorrhea does *not* make stools float. See http://www3.infotrieve.com/medline/infotri...levitt,+md):AU"


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

FLUX:Sorry to take too long for you with my request for the resource, and to quibble over a relatively minor question, but the words "ONLY GAS" and "MYTH" and big "idiot" pictures appear to be inappropriate. Your statements may be true for celiacs, but I remember differently from working in a cystic fibrosis center for some years, for example, and this is the best place to study steatorrhea...and the floating-stool phenom.They (CF's) do not suffer from carbohydrate digestive dysfunction, but pancreatic insufficiency thus (unsupplemented) in addition to protein malabsorption they do not emulsify and absorb fats adequately.Besides the MM stating steatorrhea can cause floating stool, CF docs attribute this to steatorrheic fat content, and so does the medical staff of WebMDstate that this is one reason for stools to float:WEBMD:---------------------------------------------Stools - floating ---------------------------------------------[Alternative Names] [Definition] [Common Causes] [Considerations] [Call Your Health Care Provider If] [What To Expect At Your Health Care Provider's Office] [Home Care] Alternative Names floating stoolsDefinition Stool that float are generally associated with some degree of malabsorption, the presence of increased fat in the stools, or excessive flatus/gas.Common Causes cystic fibrosis gluten-induced enteropathy (sprue, celiac disease) idiopathic steatorrhea (fatty stools with no known cause) disaccharidase deficiency (insufficient amounts of the sugar-digesting enzymes lactase, sucrase, or isomaltase) short bowel syndrome biliary atresia abetalipoproteinemia Note: There may be other causes of floating stools. This list is not all inclusive, and the causes are not presented in order of likelihood. The causes of this symptom can include unlikely diseases and medications. Furthermore, the causes may vary based on age and gender of the affected person, as well as on the specific characteristics of the symptom such as quality, time course, aggravating factors, relieving factors, and associated complaints. Use the Symptom Analysis option to explore the possible explanations for floating stools, occurring alone or in combination with other problems.Considerations Stool normally is denser than water and sinks. Abnormal stools may float if they contain increased amounts of gas (as from fermentation of unabsorbed sugars) or fat from malabsorption.Floating stools may be associated with conditions as simple as diarrhea to more complex diseases. Floating stools may occur in conjunction with an extremely foul odor (See stools - foul smelling).Call Your Health Care Provider If floating stools develop. What To Expect At Your health Care Provider's Office Floating stools are a single symptom of a disease complex. Other symptoms and signs are generally present. Your health care provider will normally take a family history and disease history, then complete a physical examination.Medical history questions documenting floating stools in detail may include:family history (general information about the health of family members) time pattern When did you first notice that the stools were floating? Does it happen all the time or off and on? Have you noticed any pattern? dietary history What has the diet been? Does a change in the diet change the stools? other Are other symptoms present? Are there foul-smelling stools? Are the stools an abnormal color (especially pale or clay-colored stools)? Diagnostic tests:A stool sample will be obtained for laboratory analysis. Other laboratory studies may be indicated.After seeing your health care provider:You may want to add a diagnosis related to floating stools to your personal medical record.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------End of WebMD Post------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I also saw floating stools from time to time in patients with various forms of pancreatic insufficiency (idiopathic and otherwise) which responded to enzyme supplementation (reduced fecal fat...stools stopped floating).I would not be surprised if the statement you made were true for celiac disease for the reasons stated. But especially for CF the postulate of "only gas" does not seem to fit.I would like to see this 1972 article, and what it was about, to understand where the contrary conclusions were drawn so long ago yet elude the other docs.But the link won't display the article, and Infoselect will charge me about $10 to buy your reference, and the abstract is not available. Would you post it? [This message has been edited by Mike NoLomotil (edited 08-27-2000).][This message has been edited by Mike NoLomotil (edited 08-27-2000).]


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## Guest (Aug 27, 2000)

OK, I will have to come out of the closet and confess...I also was curious about these floaters (especially after reading on this board a while back that they were filled with gas)...so I squashed one! Guess what, it collapsed like a deflated ballon! Definately gas from some unexplainable process...it was perfectly round and floated - I assume the gas came from some reaction within the chunk of stool??


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:MYTH" and big "idiot" pictures appear to be inappropriate


So then why are you still spreading it? (I just emailed them a request to correct this error.)


> quote:I would not be surprised if the statement you made were true for celiac disease for the reasons stated. But especially for CF the postulate of "only gas" does not seem to fit.


Huh? What do you think that a disease can alter the laws of physics?


> quote:They (CF's) do not suffer from carbohydrate digestive dysfunction, but pancreatic insufficiency thus (unsupplemented) in addition to protein malabsorption they do not emulsify and absorb fats adequately.


I'm baffled as to why it would not affect pancreatic amylase. I guess this means it does.


> quote:But the link won't display the article, and Infoselect will charge me about $10 to buy your reference, and the abstract is not available. Would you post it?


Me? I'm not into long forays at the keyboard. I'm afraid you'll have to trek to the library for this one.


> quote: I assume the gas came from some reaction within the chunk of stool??


It could have been from fermentation or the atmosphere.


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

Flux,It would not require a "long foray" to just clip it and paste it. What's the problem? That's not too many keystrokes. An outline I found of it seems to indicate some quantitative analysis methods were used and this would be of interest. But if you won't clip it and post it for us OK. What can I do?As far as CF goes, studies for years of the stool of CFs for evaluation of malabsorption report only signs of protein and fat digestive dysfunction, not carbo dysfunction. They find it not me...I just post the finidngs. But I am not the endocrinologist so I cannot answer the question. And the CF stools are greasy with fat and don't collapse when you squish them like little gas bags as I recall.The medical library here is all the way down to University of Miami (75 miles) from Palm Beach area...I am not on the med school campus like yourself. I think I will forgo the trip until it is something more exciting.MNL


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## sickntired (Jan 6, 2005)

I wonder if the person who actually posted this question is actually getting any help from this debate? Let's not forget that the reason that we respond to someone is to help them. Flux, is it too difficult to believe that maybe there might be other reasons that you are unaware of? Mike did not discount that gas can cause this phenomenon. He just said that it is not the only reason why it happens. I think you both must be very educated people to know so much. Let's be open to each other's ideas instead of slamming them. Sorry to get off of the topic. I sincerely apologize to the person who posted this question. be wells n t


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## poopsalot (Aug 30, 2000)

Fiona, that'll teach you to ask a question. Don't let it happen again.Good luck in finding a simple, understandable answer. If I ever hear one I'll pass it on to you.Have a safe, lovely weekend.Love, -poopsalot/peesalot/etc.


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## JeanG (Oct 20, 1999)

Hi poopsalot! It's too bad there aren't any simple answers with IBS and intestinal diseases.







We're luckier than people who lived a hundred years ago who didn't have nearly the knowledge we have. And 100 years from now our descendants will be calling us barbaric!







Happy Labor Day weekend to everybody.







JeanG[This message has been edited by JeanG (edited 09-01-2000).]


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:He just said that it is not the only reason why it happens.


No, you misunderstoodd, the other reason was a myth.


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2000)

LOL!!!Thanks for all of your replies. I guess (to me) it doesn't really matter, as long as one or the other doesn't mean anything really bad. What confuses me though is that half of my stool will sink and the other half will float. Sometimes (at one sitting) things will start off kind of normal and then change to being loose or D. Is this common?







Fiona


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## meggy (Mar 13, 2000)

Hi,I don't know if it is normal or not, but it happens to me too. I will think that "finally" there will be something normal, but then NO, another big D episode. I also wonder about that, why some of it solidifies, and some does not. HUH?


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2000)

Fiona,I bet you didn't expect some of the previous posts







Such complicated answers to a fairly simple question!No dis-respect to flux or Mike NoLo (Mike I have read quite a lot of your posts/replies, and I have a great deal of respect of what you say) but perhaps for Fiona's sake you two could carry on your 'difference of opinion' on your own and not on her thread.Anyway Fiona, I sometimes have both in the same sitting, so you are not on your own - not wanting to start any further long 'medical' texts, but I had heard it was down to the fibre content in the poop!Prvsts, you did what to your poop?


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