# Abortions & IBS?



## Lisa K (Jan 2, 1999)

Hello everyone







couldnt sleep, brain was teeming with concerns relating to Wendy's pregnancy & IBS issue. Does anyone find any coorelation between having had abortion(s) & the emergence or exacerbation of IBS?If being pregnant can diminish some/most of your IBS symptoms can undergoing an abortion exacerbate or trigger IBS?In retrospect, & it may be coincidental, butI had noticed a change in my GI system after undergoing abortions at an early age







. Am curious to know if any of you have any thoughts on this. Thanks in advance.LisaK


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## Loretta (Dec 13, 1998)

Hi Lisa,I had an abortion when I was 18 years old. But I have had IBS for my whole life. I'm trying to think back to see if maybe it had gotten worse after the abortion but the only thing that really got worse was my heavy duty guilt. But, guilt, stress, anxiety, etc plays a major role with my IBS so maybe that is a connection to some extent. I'm sure some people had really bad abortions and something inside could have been damaged. Just a thought, (uh oh), maybe there is something that happened in our pasts that messed something up with our brain / intestine connection. I guess it could be guilt, or maybe a really difficult situation or major stress, some type of shock to our system and that messed up the nerve endings connected to our intestines. This is definitly something to think about. Take care of yourself Lisa and try to sleep better. Tylenol PM usually does the trick for me on nights when I can't sleep. Loretta


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## Guest (Feb 20, 1999)

Hi Everyone







I just realized after I posted this topic that it may be offensive or too personal for some of you to share. I understand. Please dont misconstrue the content or purpose of my questions.*Loretta*







Thanks so much for responding. I agreethe enormous *guilt* over having this procedure has probably compounded my stress for so long. At the time I was too young to realize the toll it would take on me mentally.I still cant see the direct coorelation to IBS, but I know my body chemistry, hormonal or otherwise changed since that time & has influenced in some way how my GI tract misbehaves today







again, thanks for the well-wishes this is one procedure I never want to undergo ever again.HAVE a GREAT weekend Loretta & all







LisaK


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## Guest (Feb 20, 1999)

Hi Lisa, I can see where your question is coming from, but I am afraid I can't answer yes. I have never had an abortion but have had several laporoscopy ops for IVF and fertility treatment. Had some inseminations that were really high up in the womb. ? I don't know whether that is in any way similar? I experienced pain and cramping with those and bleeding.







(and they weren't successful. This theory doesn't really include the guys though, take care Jenni







[This message has been edited by Jenni (edited 02-20-99).]


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## Guest (Feb 20, 1999)

Good Morning Lisa,As this is a very sensitive subject, I commend you. I read this post yesterday and had to muster up the courage until today to reply.I too had an abortion when I was 16 and for me it was not the inducer to my IBS, but I can see where it may have been for you.The stress and emotional impact of a situation of this magnatude from beginning (finding out you are pregnant), middle (dealing with the fear, guilt and having to make a decision), and end (the ultimate proceedure and it's lasting emotional effects) could no doubt, have been your IBS trigger. And you're right, being so young, you have no clue as to the haunting guilt that crops up later in life; however, I have to say, that I also believe that I made the right decision at the time and have come to resolve some of the guilt I have felt through the years.I happen to agree with Loretta's (uh oh) thought on something being messed up with our brain/intestine connection. It's almost like the brain one day decides it's had enough and then being the "good buddy" it is, allows our intestines to share in the joys of our daily stresses and problems.Thanks for starting this thread Lisa. I found it strangely theraputic to talk about something that I never discuss with anyone. Who needs a shrink when we've got eachother







Take care, have a great weekend.....and Lisa, you need to get some sleep girlie!


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## Guest (Feb 21, 1999)

Lisa-I can't believe this...When I wrote the other message preg. & IBS, it never dawned on me that this could have triggered my IBS.This is not something I like to talk or admit because of all the negative responses it leads too. I too, feel pain and still wonder and worry about the whole thing. This makes you wonder, my IBS started about 1/2 year later. I bet it does have something to do with it. Thank you-Lisaps. I haven't had time to figure out the animation gifs yet.


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## Lisa K (Jan 2, 1999)

Hi Everyone







Thanks again for allowing me to share your private lives here...I really do appreciate it very much.*Jenni*-youre right, this would exclude the guys w/ibs...but who cares about them(just kidding)...I just think that any change hormonally would affect any part of our systems, in our case it is our sensitive GI tracts.*Karen*-So happy to see you posting again, the newbies would just love you too







!Yes, the post-abortion-trauma is something many of us need to reconcile at some pt in our lives (usually) gradually. Here is the emotional/physical factor wreaking havoc again on our "brain/intestines"-the brain is SO complex I cant imagine ever figuring out how it truly works







- righto Karen - shrink session amongst us in the making







Hey *Wendy*-how are the animations going? I see that youve had success! it is addictive I must warn you







Ive wondered about this for a long time (8 yrs+ to be exact). remains unexplained







?*Thanks* for reading & replying all...one things for sure, we never should feel *alone* with this phenomenon!just 1 for the (good)night? (sleeeeep yes!)


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## Guest (Feb 22, 1999)

Please anyone who reads this consider adoption. [This message has been edited by natalie (edited 02-22-99).]


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## Joe (Dec 13, 1998)

natalie,I think that was uncalled for. This BB is about IBS. Not to debate abortion issues and to judge people for their past. You don't know anything about these people or their circumstances so don't judge them------------------*Joe*[This message has been edited by Joe (edited 02-22-99).]


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## Guest (Feb 22, 1999)

I was not the person who started the discussion of abortion on this BB.[This message has been edited by natalie (edited 02-22-99).]


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## Joe (Dec 13, 1998)

natalie,The other posters were not discussing the pros and cons of abortion. I am sure everyone knows the effect of an abortion. You were the one who pointed that out though. I suppose you think it is OK to kill a doctor who performs abortions or women who have one. By the way, I have not stated my position on abortions and I won't here because this is not the place for it. So don't assume I'm pro abortion because of my response here and don't assume I'm anti-abortion because of that statement. This is not the forum for that discussion. Drop it.------------------*Joe*


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## Guest (Feb 22, 1999)

Joe no I do not think it is "right" to kill anyone. Killing abortionist is also very wrong. So please do not lump me with people who kill other humans. Adoption is LIFE. And No I have never had an abortion. Any BB that brings up the subject of abortion is an opening to speak for babies. Remember I did not start the subject.[This message has been edited by natalie (edited 02-22-99).]


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## Joe (Dec 13, 1998)

natalie,I respect your opinion but your statement that


> quote:Maybe IBS is to good for you.


 is not appropriate. Do you think *GOD* is punishing these women for having an abortion? Why in the heck is *HE* punishing me then? In my world *GOD* doesn't work that way. Since you are here on this IBS board also, why is *HE* punishing you?------------------*Joe*


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## Guest (Feb 22, 1999)

Joe, I did edit my comment after I read it. I am sorry. and I also think you did not quote me exactly. The subject just upset me. This was before you posted your last comment. Please re-read my statement. And I would rather talk about anything than abortion, it just makes me sad. I feel sorry for woman who need to make a decision like this. I do not hate anyone and I do not judge them in anyway. [This message has been edited by natalie (edited 02-22-99).]


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## Joe (Dec 13, 1998)

natalie,Thank you for editing your original post. Personally I would rather not discuss the method by which an abortion is performed. If I had an answer to the abortion issue I'm sure I would win a Nobel Prize but I don't have any answers.------------------*Joe*


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## Guest (Feb 22, 1999)

Please cut it out. No one but you, Natalie, brought up the gory details, but we are all aware of exactly what goes on, no matter how you want to state it. If you don't want to hear about people talking about abortions -- not the pros & cons -- just the possible relation to IBS, don't read the thread. It is not fair of you to judge the women writing in when the have had enough to deal with. Does it give you IBS symptoms to think about other people having abortions? I didn't think so. Cut it out."She heads for the clinic and gets some static walking in through the door. They call her a sinner and they call her a killer and they call her a whore. maybe one day you'll have to walk a mile in her shoes, then maybe you'll know what it's like to have to choose."I heard that song on the radio today. It's in my head now, and lo and behold what do I find on the BB? This place is not supposed to be about judging, just helping. And if you think I'm judging you, well, you haven't walked in my shoes.--Jennifer


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## Guest (Feb 22, 1999)

No answers here either Joe. Next time lets talk about summer vacation plans.


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## Guest (Feb 23, 1999)

Natalie, people here are talking about trauma as a cause of their IBS. You seem to want the last word, about it all. I could tell you a lot about the lasting effects of trauma, and you are not helping one bit, so why don't you just shut the hell up.


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## Phyllis McDonnell (Dec 15, 1998)

Please don't beat yourselves up because you've had abortions and now have IBS. I don't for one moment believe that a merciful God would condemn any woman who is desperate enough to have an abortion It takes a lot of courage to make such a big decision and to live with the consequences, and I know from personal experience that I didn't have that courage, even when my sanity was jeopardised by a disastrous, unplanned and unwelcome pregnancy at a time of crisis in my marriage. I'm a coward, and always take the line of least resistance. I shrugged off responsibility for taking charge of my life and sanity by letting my church's rules decide for me, even though I was almost suicidal and my doctor was afraid I would crack up.I do believe, however, that any surgical procedure in the pelvic area does exacerbate IBS. I've had 2 spontaneous abortions (26 weeks and 19 weeks), one full-term pregnancy and a hysterectomy. I also have friends who didn't have IBS before their hysterectomies, but have suffered with it since. With each pregnancy I experienced excessive nausea and severe constipation (combination of dehydration due to vomiting and the effects of iron supplements), and I really believe that hormonal changes, crowding in the pelvic area, with the enlarged uterus pressing on the bowel, all make things worse for anyone who is in any way predisposed to bowel problems.So, Lisa, Loretta and all the others - perhaps it's just a physical thing. You did what you believed was the right thing to do, you accept responsibility, have grieved your loss, and now you deserve to live in peace. Lots of love.------------------Phyllis


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## Guest (Feb 23, 1999)

Phyllis,I want to thank you for your post - getting back to what is important, talking about IBS and things that may have an impact on our health. I hope everyone will keep themselves focused on this when posting.One thing we don't want is for anyone to be afraid to discuss IBS here.------------------Martha


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## Lisa K (Jan 2, 1999)

First, To all whom I may have offended I do apologize deeply. I will proceedwith caution & with consideration as always.Second, To Karen, Loretta, Jenni & Wendy & to all who were compassionate, non-judgemental & objective, I thank you sincerely. *Third, Joe,Jennifer,TB & Phyllis -your objectivity & understanding is very much appreciated*.Last-My original purpose for this post was only to inquire about the correlationif any between physiological effects of this procedure and IBS. In no waywas I inviting controversial *morality* debates however inadvertent. *No one needs to justify their personal lives to anyone here. & no oneshould have the unmitigated audacity to judge me or anyone else whoresponded here*. I apologize if Ive caused any repercussions/injury to anyone above as aresult of Nat's replies which I have regrettably read in its original state.This will be the last time I EVER introduce a controversial topic to obviate this disaster!*Lets make some things clear*: *I do NOT advocate abortion*I do NOT suggest to anyone what they ought to do without knowing thempersonally & have been permitted to do so by that individual alone.**I do NOT need to answer to you Nat(only to myself & God)about the morality of any issue*.Since Ive posted here many many months ago, I never anticipated this confrontation. But knowing that we are all different with different views, I will refrainfrom making any undignified comments to fuel this thread or any other in the future.*I am sincerely sorry to this board that this has happened*


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## Guest (Feb 23, 1999)

Dear Natalie,Iï¿½m sure it took as much courage for Lisa and Loretta as it did for me to embark on this topic and one of my greatest concerns was to have a reply as insensitive as what I have read from you. Grant it, we are all entitled to our opinions, but when it lacks respect and sensitivity for another personï¿½s feelings, that is in my opinion crossing the line. The initial question was posted to see if any other board members noticed the start of IBS in conjunction to an abortion. Whether you believe it or not, this question had just as much of a place on this board as would a question wondering if IBS started after Gallbladder Surgery, the death of a loved one or anal sex. Natalie I know you must have read the thread title. If you knew how you would react given your pro-life beliefs, why did you even read it? I know...the old curiosity and cat story right? But what saddens me most is that because of something that ï¿½weï¿½ went through by the power of our own CHOICE, had the courage to discuss in hopes of figuring out yet another link to IBS, you had the temerity to judge us. I consider myself lucky that I did'nt see the un-edited version of one of your posts, but I get the gist of what you must have said, and I have to ask why? I re-read the original posts and there is no way that we were advocating abortions and nor would I ever feel above someone else to tell them what CHOICE to make concerning their own bodies, as you know, it's a PERSONAL decision. I don't believe I have been put on this earth to judge anyone and feel that we are all one people (skeletons and all). If your opinions and beliefs are not the same as mine, thatï¿½s fine...I understand and respect that, it is our human choice, but never would I bash your differences and I would sincerely appreciate you not bashing ours.*****************************************A warm {{{hug}}} and BIG THANKS to the posters (Joe, Jennifer, TB, Phyllis and Martha) who spoke up in our defense and (like Lisa) to Jenni and Wreaux for posting with topic in mind and objectiveness. It instilled the feeling I had when I came to the board tonight (although it was slightly dashed when I read this), that we are all fine,open minded, caring human beings and thank you from the bottom of my heart.******************************************Lisa, I understand your feeling the need to apologize but there is absolutly no reason for you to. You posted a legitimate question, nothing more, nothing less and if we start to second guess ourselves here and start to feel like we can't post a question because we are afraid that someone won't like it, then what's the use. If the question (like yours) is in regards to IBS then post it, that's what we're here for (and for the parties and IBS bonding







)Karen [This message has been edited by Karen (edited 02-22-99).]


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## Bill (Dec 13, 1998)

First, I'd like to say that I haven't been on this board as long as some of you. But I have been here long enough to understand that this is supposed to be a forum for the open discussion of IBS related issues. I don't believe it was ever intended to be used to promulgate anyone's moralistic judgements. That said, I find it offensive that ANYONE even thinks they have the right to sit in judgement on anyone else. I have followed this thread since it started, because I believe that we owe it to ourselves to explore *all* avenues in our quest for understanding of our affliction, in the hope that eventually, some common denominator(s) can be discovered, that can lead to an amelioration of our condition.I didn't see Natalie's original post, because its been edited. Most of her subsequent posts were edited as well. I do, however, get a sense of its content based on some of the other responses, and I find it hateful that anyone would post such content on an open forum. I have always considered myself an easy going, peaceful person, but that kind of moralizing and judgement just sets me off. The fact that those responses had to be edited says a lot about the person that posted them. I notice, too, that Natalie is one of the few people who have posted here who hasn't the courage to make their personal information known to the rest of the people on the board (e-mail address, for example). That tells me a lot about you as well, Natalie. There are plenty of other places you can take your opinions and display them for the world to see, if that is what you desire to do. But I don't believe that this board is the place for them and I don't believe that you contribute anything of value to *anyone* when you do so. In looking back over your posts, what disturbs me the most is that although you went back and edited your posts, you didn't even bother to apologize to any of the people that you offended. Thanks to you, one possible avenue of exploration has been closed, because we all know there will be no more open discussion in this thread. Worse, the people who have posted here, and probably hundreds of others who, like me, were simply reading it to try to gain a little information, will forever be hesitant to discuss ANYTHING controvesial on this board or anywhere else because of YOU. You haven't changed anyone's feelings on the issue of abortion, but you've certainly destroyed the trust that many people had built up in this board over the last months and years, about being able to talk openly about sensitive issues without being judged. It is so sad when one person, through their thoughlessness and selfish desire to force their morals on others, can ruin a good thing for so many people.


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## Guest (Feb 23, 1999)

Thank you Bill, your post was beautifully written, and I have to say it blew me away (poof)! I promise (now Lisa, not a word about my promises







) not to allow anything like this disrupt the trust and bond I have built here. To be honest, this mess just isn't worth it to me to lose something that's so much more important.Take care.Karen


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## Joe (Dec 13, 1998)

Lisa K, Loretta, Karen and wreaux,I'm sorry you all had to see where this thread went and Lisa K (or anyone else for that matter)I'm really sorry you had to see the unedited version. No one should have to put up with this kind of abuse. I hope this will not deter any of you from participating in further discussions. In all the posts in this thread there was only one negative person to respond so I hope that will give you some comfort. Most people will ignore something like this if they disagree but a few will have to attack. I agree with Bill also.


> quote:that we owe it to ourselves to explore *all* avenues in our quest for understanding of our affliction


So please keep exploring and contributing to this forum.------------------*Joe*


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## Loretta (Dec 13, 1998)

Thanks guys! I didn't see the post before it was edited and in a way I am happy about that. The guilt I go through from having the abortion is horrible. I believe that there are certain things that people have to live through, maybe a karmic thing, just to help them understand others problems and maybe be able to help them from lessons you learned in the past. I do believe we control our own destiny but I also believe that there is certain things that happen in life that you can't control, just certain things that are meant to be. But anyway, thank you again everyone for your support. This is a support group and we are all here for each other. Personally I don't mind if someone has to talk about another problem that isn't related to IBS because we all share a common bond and basically IBS controls every facet of our lives. That is what we are all here for, to help and support each other. Sometimes it goes a little deeper than the IBS. Take care everyone, Loretta


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## Guest (Feb 23, 1999)

OK, I did not say anything that awful. You people are taking one comment and blowing it way out of content. But people with IBS always try to over analyze every grain of dust. Maybe your over critical "we don't judge anyone" (but you where so fast to judge and catagorize me) attitudes have something more to do with your gut problems than anything physical. Anytime anyone and I don't care who they are brings up such a controversial topic as abortion they had better be prepared different opionions. My posts where edited because my typing skills are not what they should be not because I changed my attitude on the topic so stop reading into what I said anymore than what you see. As I posted in my reply to Joe I belive he has miss quoted me. But all jump on the bandwagon and defend the right of women who abort babies but don't defend us women who would not. Yes that sounds open minded and non judgemental. like I said in my last post. I DO NOT JUDGE ANYONE I FEEL SORRY FOR THE WOMEN WHO HAVE CHOSEN ABORTION. If this is such a awful statement to make TOO BAD.


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## Guest (Feb 23, 1999)

I refuse to participate in your melodrama.Like I said, you would have to have the last word. If I throw a stick, will you go away?


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## Guest (Feb 23, 1999)

Bill,Well put, wonderfully written. I couldn't agree more.------------------Martha


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## Guest (Feb 23, 1999)

Bill said it all so well and I applaud him as well as Joe for their input! It did my heart good to see a male respond at all! And Lisa K you have no reason to apologize!


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## Joe (Dec 13, 1998)

natalie,I did not miss quote you. I did not re-type your quote. It was a straight copy and paste from your reply to mine. And you did post some awful stuff such as describing some of the methods of an abortion. If you didn't say some pretty bad things why did you edit 4 of your 5 posts? If someone attacks you for not having an abortion then I will defend you too but for you to say the things you said about these women just because they had an abortion is appalling.------------------*Joe*


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## Guest (Feb 23, 1999)

Joe you should have copied my whole statement. What you took was a portion and it appears out of context of what I was trying to say. I never said anything to anyone personnally. If you need to hurt me just to make your self appear to be some kind of hero OK keep on streatching the truth of what I was saying. Also I did take out a couple of statements on how abortions are performed but what I said was actually milder than what our school children are learning in most America high schools. Joe I have been told on this BB some pretty rude comments made by TB I think that was the persons handle and I am not offended. I just pray for you all, not anything to do with abortions just because we are all on this earth together. Hope you are feeling well today Joe.This is where this has been edited::::And Joe why I edit my comments I stated before it is because I am not a good typist and after I read my postings sometimes I think faster than I type and my sentences are not complete. Nothing to do with anything devious like you are hoping for.[This message has been edited by natalie (edited 02-23-99).]


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## Joe (Dec 13, 1998)

natalie,You were talking to the women who have had abortions and your exact statement was


> quote:Maybe IBS is to good for you.


This quote came after a statement like


> quote:"Do any of you ever think about your dead babies?"


 How did I take that out of context? Believe me, there are no hero's here. If your going to make a post you should stand by what you said and not go back and edit the posts and deny making these statements. This is it for me here.------------------*Joe*


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## Guest (Feb 23, 1999)

Joe you are mistaken. I don't understand why. End of subject.


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## Guest (Feb 24, 1999)

End of subject? So you are the final authority?!? It must be grand to be so important and all knowing at such a young age.


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## Guest (Feb 24, 1999)

in error.[This message has been edited by Lisa T Kenney (edited 02-23-99).]


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## Guest (Feb 24, 1999)

Sorry guys...but I can't sit by and let this one slide!! I just want Natalie to hear the whole picture from someone who knows!!Natalie: You should be ashamed of yourself for posting your FIRST post!!! As a woman who HAS considered adoption and DONE IT, I am personally horrified that anyone would just throw that out there as a response to ANYTHING, never mind on an IBS bulletin board posting!!Lisa K had a very valid and interesting point to make!! For me, I can look at this potential trigger from both sides Abortion AND Full-Term Pregnancy. To be honest, I think some of my problems actually MAY HAVE originally been triggered by my abortion....and other situations have merely exacerbated the problem.That's the IBS piece, now here's my moral piece. I feel I am in a position to judge the morality of one choice versus the other because I have done BOTH. Joe pointed out in one of your posts that you edited out a line about whether or not woman who have abortions think about their dead babies...Well, I have an answer for you Natalie....Not really!!! I spend a lot more time thinking about the almost 12-year old child that I gave birth to...where is he? is he healthy? is he happy? is he ALIVE???? I will walk through the rest of my life not knowing about my child...my son!! Do you have any idea what a living hell that is?!?!?!? Evidently not, or you wouldn't be so quick to advocate it.Now let's move on to my abortion. 4 years after the birth of my son, I got pregnant again. I was in a highly abusive relationship with a man....sex was his weapon...Anyway, at this point in time I was trying to get out of the relationship and found out I was pregnant....so did he!! He made it abundantly clear that if I gave birth to his child that he would NEVER LET ME GO!! And I believed him!! So I had the abortion...had I not, I WOULD have been trapped. Just a side note, it took another 2 years IN COURT to get rid of the guy and he eventually served home confinement time for domestic assault and violation of restraining orders. Should I have had a baby with this man....a man who hit me? Cheated on me? Stalked me??Basically, Natalie, evidently you don't have a clue of what the real world is like....and obviously, you haven't been IN the position to choose, otherwise you wouldn't be so quick to throw out pleas as you did (evidently originally with some graphic detail added in for good measure).As I said, you should be ashamed of yourself. As the bible says "judge not lest ye be judged". I would never, ever begin to tell a woman what CHOICE (and it is a choice, no matter what the pro-lifers may say) she must or should make. I only pray that when someone in that position comes to me, that I can provide them with realistic physical and emotional information on the CHOICES available to them.May God forgive you!!Hopefully, now I'VE had the last word on this subject!!!!


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## Elariel (Jan 1, 1999)

*sighs* i havent been here in about a month and this is the one i choose.. first of all TB, maybe *you* should shut up. that was very rude of you to say to natalie. everyone on here has a right to their own opinion. i understand where natalie is coming from, and it is very hard not to say something when the subject upsets you very much. maybe she was out of line, but no one made the rest of you read her posts. and no one made natalie start reading the others. as usual, you've all got off the subject at hand. if you're so inclined to argue about it, why not post a new message with a topic such as 'non IBS discussion on ___' i remember why i dont come here anymore.


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## Guest (Feb 24, 1999)

Elariel:We're off the subject because NATALIE got us off the subject. There was absolutely nothing wrong with Lisa's original posting in either content or intent. There was nothing for Natalie TO comment on...Lisa's post was simply asking a question of relevancy of that activity to possible onset/worsening of IBS.NATALIE made it a moral issue with her posting (which, even in the modified version, I find personally offensive as evidenced by my post just prior to yours). SHE opened up the kettle of fish on this one....not anyone else...we're just responding to her inappropriate remarks (which have evidently driven a very valued member of this board, OFF this board).No, no one made me read these postings...but I'm glad I have...I have a true vision of who is who and what is what on this board. I know who the REAL human beings are and who are not!! Quite frankly, no one during this posting, other than NATALIE, has turned out to be anything other than a caring, compassionate and decent human being. I commend each and every person who has defended the initial post and who has defended Lisa in the aftermath.


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## Jeffrey Roberts (Apr 15, 1987)

I am frankly so very distressed by the direction that this topic has gone in.Lisa asked a very legitimate question. Research has suggested that woman who have experienced some form of trauma (or abuse) have a higher than average incidence of IBS.Let's all take a deep breath and remind ourselves that we are talking about IBS here. Please take all of the other stuff offline.I apologize to everyone but I am closing this thread and no further posts will be allowed.Jeff


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