# Help! I've been to a Freudian today!



## Joan Gregg (Jun 6, 2000)

As you know, I am IBS C/LowMo. Upon the recommendation of GI Guy and GP, I visited a psychiatrist, very highly recommended.He brought up topics like unresolved pregnancy for "holding" stool, poor potty training (e.g., I withheld stool to spite Mommy), I have low self-esteem (I know that). He even has a couch.Is this the right move for me? He charges $150 US and is a WWII vet, so he's no kid (not a bad thing, mind you.)Pls respond,Joan


----------



## BQ (May 22, 2000)

Vhat cud dis mean???? Hmmmmm??? Vedy intearesting! (Sorry couldn't help myself) LOLJoan, If I were you,and I wanted to seek the help of a psychiatrist, I would want them to be knowledgeable and experienced in treating folks with IBS or at least a similar chronic illness. I'm not sure I'm a big fan of Freud's though so perhaps I'm a bit biased. I'm sure I'd not be giving this guy any more 'marks'. LOL (sorry) BQ


----------



## Joan Gregg (Jun 6, 2000)

He was recommended by my GastroInstestinal (GI) guy. . . On the positive side, he said I need to learn to project the real me and not worry about what people think (I wear my hair really short, wear makeup, don't look like MY idea of the middle aged housewife {listen, you housewives, don't get mad at me}, like to dress well for work), etc.Yet, I fear what people "think" of me. So he DID hit nail on head there.P.S. I'm certainly middle aged, but am a teacher AND a housewife. LOL


----------



## BQ (May 22, 2000)

Well Joan, it depends upon what your goal for this is. I know your GI and your GP referred you, but did they say why? Or was it just a blanket "Perhaps you should see a Psychiatrist and here's a good name...." type thing. I don't mean for you to answer those questions here. Just something to think about. Do you think therapy like this could help you? If so, are you comfortable with this psychiatrist? ( FYI,Psychiatrists as a rule do not do therapy. Their function is more to monitor psychotropic medications. You would need to see a Psychotherapist to have therapy in most cases.) Again, no need to answer these questions here. Did either of your Docs recommend a medication? Perhaps they are just uncomfortable monitoring it & would like a Psychiatrist to do that function for you. I dunno. It all highly depends on why they made these recommendations & what *you* want. Much luck to you on this. BQ


----------



## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

Joan, I say go for it, it sounds like he will be working with some cognitive issues and if your Gastro recommended him, perhaps he has worked with people with GI problems.Give it a try for a while and see how it works out. You can learn something from everyone, but you have to give it the chance.


----------



## AZmom1 (Dec 6, 1999)

From what I know about Freudian psych this is the wrong Dr. for you. As I understand it, Freudians do analysis. This process goes on for years and years (ie. Woody Allen, Richard Lewis). This is not what you need for IBS. I'm not impressed by what he said, everyone of us probably has low self-esteem from living with IBS, we're highly sensitive, yada yada yada. Most psychiatrists no longer do much therapy, they usually consult with psychologists that do the therapy, while the psychiatrists moniter the drugs.Don't get me wrong here, I think psychotherapy is great if you need it for personal issues. I just don't think it's useful for IBS. I spent years and years in therapy trying to get help with IBS symptoms, and it did not help me. I've seen studies that have compared various psychotherapies for IBS, and CBT and Hypnotherapy are by far the most effective. You need to find out if he knows about IBS, what it is and how to treat it. Has he had other IBS patients? Has he had success with them? I figure my Dr. should know more about IBS than I do. AZ


----------



## Clair (Sep 16, 2000)

Mmmm - I agree with AZ Mom.A Freudian Psychiatrist doesn't really sound like the right sort of medical professional to treat IBS.Freudians believe that certain human beings all got stuck in one or another stage of development as a child e.g. oral fixation etc.He is telling you things that relate probably to the vast majority of the population - so your likely to fit in with what he says anyway.You need a specialist who can work with you to get to the route of your problems not one that sits and umms and ahhs and tells you things you already know.If your willing to spend $150 a session then if I were you I would be looking for someone who specialises in treating IBS sufferers.Have you asked this psychiatrist what qualifications etc he has for working with IBS patients?I would check that out first - if he has then stick with it and see how it goes. But if it makes you feel uncomfotrable then it is not the right treatment for you.Clair


----------



## Joan Gregg (Jun 6, 2000)

Thanks for the advice. I've already phoned another psychiatrist, also recommended by GI guy. The issue is I am in constant fear of my bowels not moving right. I get that PM BM that wont come out til I get home, sit, and drink coffee. During the workday, the bloating is intolerable, at least to me.To answer several questions, I've been on Klonopin & Serzone for years (AFTER I became IBS C, mind you) for an adjustment disorder. My GP monitored that for me; both he and GI guy would like me to switch/cut down. I am not depressed, just a nervous wreck, you see.Thanks again,Joan


----------



## BBolen Ph.D (Nov 9, 2000)

A consult with a psychiatrist would be a good idea if you or your GI feel that your medication needs to be re-evaluated. Otherwise, I agree with the others that you seek out a mental health professional who has been trained in hynotherapy or cognitive-behavioral therapy. Most psychiatrists focus on medication, rather than teaching you strategies to cope with and reduce your fears and symptoms.


----------



## BQ (May 22, 2000)

Joan LOL!! I loved this: "I am not depressed, just a nervous wreck, you see."I give you lots of good points for your attitude and sense of humor. I have no doubt that you will do well with both forms of treatment if that is what you decide on. But it makes sense that the docs want somebody to monitor any med changes. So I'm hoping you feel lots more comfortable with the new psychiatrist. As for therapy, that is something that certainly can't hurt ya with the right one. (Yeah I know that's the hard part, finding the right one.) Wishing you all the best. BQ


----------



## eric (Jul 8, 1999)

I guess I missed he was a real "Freudian" psychiatrist, I just thought that was the tile of the post.








I also concur coping strategies from someone who understands IBS is the way to go.Joan, are you still listening to the tapes?I am glad your getting it worked out.


----------



## Joan Gregg (Jun 6, 2000)

Eric, am back on tapes. Started last night, 11/13.Oh, and 2d Psychiatrist? He turned me down, 'cause I have "Personal Choice" (U.S. insurance plan), of which he is not a member. So, now I wait for my list of "in-network" providers. Can you publish ONE MORE TIME that list of Psychologists trained in hypnotherapy specifically for IBS.Ever Joan,Joan


----------



## Joan Gregg (Jun 6, 2000)

Update: am visiting former psychologist 28 November to re-evaluate myself. Had to stay in my insurance group right now.Will keep you posted,"Joan:


----------



## atp (Jan 18, 2001)

Hi Joan... I'm popping in here some now because I finally took the plunge and ordered the tapes.First off, I really despise Freudian thought...a lot of his writings/beliefs are pretty misogynistic and, IMHO, off-base.Personally, I think a professional with a different philosophy would likely be more helpful than a Freudian. Also, experience is important, but I've found that with things like IBS that are still not completely understood, younger dr's are often more aware of the issues surrounding these things. A good older dr will keep current with readings, etc. but sometimes I think they get too much of their information from drug reps. This is of course a generalization and there are some wonderful older dr's and idiot young ones. But younger drs are more likely to have been schooled more about the mind-body connection, etc.And, here's my non-professional quickie evaluation







It sounds like you are focusing a lot of attention on whether you go or not, and feel the need to go nightly. Not everyone's system is geared that way. Way back before my gut started acted up, I used to have a BM 3-4 times a week. That was normal for me, and I didn't worry about it if I didn't go for 3 days...I went when I had to go. Now I'm thrilled if I don't go at all in a day, because another day I might go 8 times with D. But anyhow, enough about me...I was just giving that info for perspective.I could be off base, but I suspect if you stop placing so much pressure on your body to go every day whether you want to or not, it will relax more and you may feel more comfortable, etc. From what I've read on this BB, it sounds like some C people have little rituals they go through before they can go...and if it helps you go, then fine, but I worry that it may become more about the process than nature doing what it needs to do...if something is not just so, can they still go? If the body is ready, but the mind is not?As I said, this is my very amateur take on things, and I hope you don't take offense at anything I'm saying. It sounds to me like you are more sensitive than most people to your gut filling up, whether the sensitivity is in the mind, gut, or both or miscommunication between both. And it sounds like you don't feel comfortable unless you are able to "go" every night, and you will take measures to help yourself go if your body isn't ready? My (once again, non-professional) guess is that focusing on CBT or working on that mind-gut connection and your feelings surrounding BMs might help more than going Freudian and trying to trace the whole thing back to your relationship with your father and mother and maybe throw in a little pen1s envy.


----------



## Joan Gregg (Jun 6, 2000)

ATP: I should post my whole story on one thread and refer everyone there like KMOTTUS.Every morning, stool MOVES DOWN THE TRACT AND SITS AT THE TOP OF MY ANUS. I admit that I am too focused on BM'sYes, I am too focused, but for two weeks, I've "let it go."Second, I don't WANT the Pm BM. Your other points are good & well taken. I'm seeing someone else this wed. to try to decrease meds for antidepressants and stop fearing my digestive system so much. Thanks for the advice.FORMERLY IBS D, TURNED TO C in '95,Joan


----------



## Nikki (Jul 11, 2000)

I'm sorry Joan,I'm not a big fan of Freud. I studied psychology at college for a while (i got a B for that class). We were taught all this stuff about stages of child development, oral, anal, latent etc. And if you do not "graduate" each stage effetively you become fixed, for example. People who become orally fixated are more likely to become smokers, because they feel they need to ne doing something with their mouths. I'm not sure i'm explaining this very well.







Basically, everything Freud has done has been disproved now i think. I don't know if you've heard of the Electra or Oedipus complex (***** envy), its very interesting but i can't help thinking that quite a lot of it he made up to suit him.







The problem with a lot of psychologists is that they managed to come up with these seemigly wonderful hypothesis, but when someone tried to disprove them, you find you can't because they have made them so that you can't prove them wrong. I remember that from my exam. It was one of the problems with Freud i think. I forget!Sorry, i've gone on for a bit about rubbish that nobody is interested in.







I really like psychology. Its what i wanted to do until i realised my head was messed up-so will sort own head out and then go back to it!







Spliff.


----------



## Nikki (Jul 11, 2000)

Oh yeah, something else i just remembered







As i think the person who posted this said that she used to "withhold" to spite mummy. I think that is true of kids, but it doesn't really hold water with me.The whole thing about people with anully retentive or expulsive??? personalities, extremee tidyness (like MOnica from friends) or extemely messy. I really don't think that is true. I can't understand how people can base whole theory's on something that was probably just speculation.







Some things from past psychologists i think could be vaguely accurate, like Bowlby's theory of the "monotropy", which was basically about the first relationaship you form is that with your mother and that forms your basis for all future relationships. So, if you do not get this relationship when you are born (i think within the first 3 months) then you have problems with future relationships. This tended to happen in Childrens homes and children that have been adopted. Because they don't know how to have relationships they can become cold, angry uncareing people.The reason i semi believe this theory is because this, i believe is the reason my Dad is the person he is. He was adopted very late.Many experiments have been done in the past, with monkeys and stuff where they left them on their own for two months and them introduced them to other monkeys. They couldn't make friends, got beaten up and hid in corners (how cruel can you be!)This, yet again is totally off the point! SOrry! Ah, the ponderings of a bored student!Spliff


----------



## atp (Jan 18, 2001)

Joan, I hope things go/went well with the new dr today!







Spliff, *I* enjoyed reading what you wrote







I think neatness/messiness can have something to do with the way you were brought up. I can be a real slob. When my parents (esp. dad) and I were having serious problems, they hated it if my room was messy...and that was one of the few things i could control. Even if I wanted my room to be clean, my desire to spite my father was greater, so I didn't clean it. Then I developed quite a tolerance, blind spot almost, for clutter, and I struggle to avoid being a complete slob to this day. My boyfriend has wondered if it's a psychological thing that counselling would help.


----------



## Joan Gregg (Jun 6, 2000)

To clarify some things:It was the Freudian Dr. I visited that said "maybe you withheld stool to spite mummy."The psychologist I visited today said:He will work on behavioral strategies for me to help with the bowel obsession--IBS is a disability and I should ask for reasonable accommodation at work--As a teacher student, I had to study all the major theories of psych but the only ones that stay with me are:--Harlow & his cats--Skinner & his pigeons--Cognitive Learning--Maslow's hierachy of needs (Hey, I'm Self-Actualized!)--Basic Freud 101.Wandering endearlingly off the topic,ever constipated and bloated Joan


----------



## BQ (May 22, 2000)

Joan, Great! Sounds like this one could really help you. Wishing you all the best with this.







BQ


----------



## bwburt (May 13, 2000)

For reasons having to do with depression and abusive parents, I've seen a whole, whole lot of therapists during my life time. For me, the most effective were therapist-social workers. In the US I believe those licensed to work with troubled people are LCSW, or licensed clinical social workers. I, myself, have advanced degrees with a whole lot of psychology. Because of this background, I strongly recommend that women needing help, run like hell from anyone who practises in the Freudian vein.Here in the Pacific Northwest of the USA, not many psychiatrists limit themselves to medication supervision. Those that I've talked to want more variety in their work. Best wishes for a successful venture.Betty B.


----------

