# Anxiety, scared of going back on meds



## CatUK

I was diagnosed with GAD (general anxiety disorder), social phobia and moderate depression a few years ago. The first thing I tried was Citalopram, I was on them for 10 weeks and felt awful so the Dr took me off them (she was suprised they hadn't worked as they supposed to be the best for anxiety). I was then referred to counselling and have been having that for around 18 months. Recently though I've missed a lot of appointments because my anxiety has become so bad again. I feel exhausted, sick all the time (have a fear of vomiting so this isn't helping), worried about everything, bad tempered (arguing with my sister and Mum all the time) and generally achy (get lots of muscle aches and pains and tire very easily).My counsellor doesn't like me to take anything while seeing her but I think I need to try meds again. I'm just really scared to go back on them with how awful I felt on them last time (I had all my anxiety symptoms multiplied by 10 and I'm bad at the moment as it is). I've tried herbal stuff such as Rhodiola Rosea and 5HTP with no effect. I just feel as I'm getting nowhere with counselling if I don't try meds again I have no other options. What would people advise? Thanks for reading.


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## Guest

While I certainly don't want to get a reputation for "pushing" anti-d medication onto everyone - it sounds as is you are pretty depressed to me. I wouldn't worry unduly - was Citralopram the first and only anti-d you were tried on? I was initially tried on that and it didn't suit at all - I had very bad anxiety/depression (attempted suicide and 6 weeks in hospital - so I DO empathise with you, I really do) but it made me horrendously panicky.If you've tried them for 10 weeks, I'm guessing no, they didn't suit you. Remember anti-d medication is very ideosyncratic. I am now on Remeron (Mitrazapene this side of the pond) and have been well for the best part of 3 years - its a little-prescribed medication and is an SSRI derivative but apart from unwanted weight-gain - I really have no side-effects at all. I'm not saying this will be perfect for you - anit-d's are so person specific but I'd say its certainly worth going back to your family doctor for a discussion about alternative anti-d medication if you feel that councelling really isn't moving you forward. Personally, I don't see why you can't combine both - but I'm NOT medical so I certainly wouldn't want to quibble with the health professionals.If you want to PM me for a further "chat" - I'd be happy to see what I can offer - you WILL get there promise. I work part-time and am a busy mum to 3 lively kids.All the bestSue (Manchester, UK)


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## twonK

Hi CatUK,my experience with meds is simply this: pick any med and give it to 10 people. You will find :1 person that it affects in a horrible manner and for them it will be a pretty traumatic experience.2 people that feel significantly worse2 people that feel no different2 people that feel a bit better but not enough to warrant staying on the med3 people who feel significantly better, enough to warrant staying on the med. One of these might even feel completely 'well'.Obviously all of this depends on many variables such as dosage, the person's illness and so on. My point is that simply because one med made you feel horrible, doesn't mean that they all will. I was made unbelievably sick by some I tried. Most did nothing but give me unpleasant side-effects. I'm on Luvox now which is really old and unpopular. Not only that, I am on 25mg daily, which everyone tells me is not enough for an effective dose. When I try upping the dose, I feel horribly depressed. This simply isn't in the rulebooks! However, it's what helps me and that is all that matters. There, in all likelihood, will be a helpful med out there for you.Ultimately you have two choices: a) settle for feeling how you're feeling right now or try other approaches if you haven't already done so: meditation, yoga, mindfulness, CBT and so on.







with the help of a good psychiatrist, keep trying different meds until one helps. A couple of observations: Replace your councillor with a qualified psychologist. Councillors are nowhere near as well trained as psychologists. Also, he/she has no right whatsoever to tell you to be on/off meds!!! That sounds pretty disgraceful to me.It sounds as though you are having a protracted, really rough time. I would go with option







.HTH,Pete


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## Guest

Sensible ideas, as ever Pete. Just one thing to bear in mind Cat (sorry, just noticed that of course you're a Brit - so it'll be Mitrazapene you might want to explore???? I'm on 30mg BTW) - if you are trying different anti-d's - stick with the programme for at least 8 weeks and if you find its really not suiting - give your system time to get the original medication out of your system before trying a new one and work closely and proactively with your GP. I've been extremely lucky - since I've been discharged from the psychiatrists (Aug 06) - I have worked closely with my family doctor who has always let me "drive" the treatment - I hope you are as lucky.Keep in touch won't you.Sue xxx


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## CatUK

Thanks so much Sue and Pete for the replies







I think I will discuss going back on medication when I go to my next Dr's appointment. I guess I'm just scared of feeling so rough again but hopefully in the long run it will help me. I've never heard of Mitrazapene but will definately have a look up about it and ask my Dr what she thinks. I've only been on one anti-d which was Citalopram. I was prescibed Senoxat as well but after hearing about a Panorama show about how awful the side effects were on it I didn't take it as they sounded worse than the anxiety/depression.All my anixety and depression started when I got ME as a teenager then became agoraphobic after spending so much time in being ill (didn't leave the house for 7 years). The one day I got fed up and just got dressed and went to my local shop. I loved being back out again and thought my life was finally moving on. The a couple of years after being out again I got this huge nausea and spent 3 hours in the freezing winter sat outside my toilet thinking I was going to be sick. This kept happening on and off for weeks until I finally went to the Dr and was diagnosed with GAD. I'm only 28 (29 in April) and just seem my life has ended before it's even begun. I want to travel (always my dream to go to New York and Sydney) and move ahead with my life. I guess trying meds again will be a big step in helping me to do that.BTW I used to live in Manchester as a kid (in Openshaw) but moved back to Blackpool again after a couple of years being there


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## Guest

Oh Clare - god love you. This'll give you hope - I was so ill and suicidally depressed I had to be hospitalised in 2006. Since then I've been with my family to New York and Canada - the holiday of a lifetime; white-water rafting, bear and whale watching and mountain biking, I've done "Go Ape" assault high-ropes course, most importantly, I've seen my children grow and develop. Since being well I feel I've almost been re-born - if that doesn't sound too OTT.Good luck - as I've stressed anti-d medication is very ideosyncratic but I've done very well on mitrazapene and it really was a last-ditch attempt - having fitted on Prozac and as I said Citralopram was a no-no too. I'd be inclined to give sensationalist websites a very wide berth - there is alot of scarey and ill-informed literature about anti-d's and their side-effects. I'm abit of a guinea pig - my GP has had nobody on mitrazapene for more than 6 months - I've been 3 years and still going strong. I take a very pragmatic stance now - yes, I'm overweight and there maybe long-term effects - at the moment I'm well and thats what counts. I think when you've been where I have mentally -quality of life takes on a much greater significance.PM me ANY time you want to talk - you WILL get there - I promise.Sue xxx


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## CatUK

Well I'm just back from the Dr's and I'm back on meds. The weird thing is Sue that I have been given Mitrazapene (and I didn't even ask for it as I couldn't remember the name). I've been given 15mg to take once a day an hour or 2 before bed. I have to go back in 2 or 3 weeks and see if the tablets are working and that I'm not having any unwanted side effects. The thing I'm most worrying about is the nausea (I felt a lot of that last time on meds). Also hope I don't put weight on as I'm on the pill and that made me go upto a UK size 14 (am on a diet at the moment trying to lose it so hope I don't have trouble shifting the weight). Starting it tomorrow so hopefully I'll start to feel better soon. Thanks again for all the help and advice


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## Guest

Oh Cat - you're not alone with this on/off battle. I decided, very foolishly to go cold turkey off my mitrazapene on Saturday. Well, by Monday night, I was in a right state - shaking, horrible taste in my mouth, very low. And here I am banging on about how reconciled I am being on long-term medication. Of course I'm not, not all the time - I have put on alot of weight - I wish I could say I hadn't - but I'm a curvy size 16, where I had been a fairly slim size 12. I don't like being big, I don't like relying on medication - but, for now, I can see that I cannot just come off it. I went to see the GP this morning, I had to forgoe my work this morning - almost unheard of - and spent about 1/2 an hour sobbing into the GP's shoulder.I feel SO much for anyone else who has these battles. My lovely friend Mark (Overitnow) suggested I try vitamin D3 supplementation - which I have now got. I checked with the health-food lady - there are no contra-indications for being on both Mitrazapene and D3 - so I'm now going to see if this helps at all.There are no easy answers - like everything - only you can balance up the pros and cons of long-term medication. I took a tablet last night and am slowly beginning to feel myself again.I wish you well - I'm always here, if you need to bend somebody's virtual ear.Good luckSue xxx


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## CatUK

Thanks so much for the reply Sue and I'm so sorry you have been having a rough time lately. I know just how you and it's awful (feel free to pm me anytime).I start the meds tonight (pretty scared) and hope that they do make me feel better. Looking around on the internet (I know I shouldn't) apparantly some websites say the possible weight gain is due to an increased appetite because of the meds. Do you know if this is true? I'm just dreading gaining weight. I know it's stupid and shallow but I was a size 8 up until I was 18 then suddenly I developed the womanly figure and am now a size 12/14. I'm on a diet which I started a couple of weeks ago (want to lose weight for my birthday in April and June when I'm hopefully strong enough to go and see Take That in Manchester) and don't want anything else gong against it (already have the pill to thank for the weight gain).I've never heard of vitamin D3, will have a read up on it. Can you get it in general stores like Holland and Barretts? Thanks again Sue for your help and replies, they are much appreciated at this scary meds start up time. As I said earlier, if you need to chat to feel free to pm me


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## CatUK

I'm just wondering how long before bed I should take the tablets. My Dr said 1-2 hours before I go to bed but I've read they act like a sleeping tablet so would think that was a bit early. Just not sure how sleepy they are going to make me so don't want to take them when I'm not ready for bed then be knocked out.


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## Guest

Oh hun - I think the very, very worst aspect of mental illness is the feeling that you are battling this alone - I know I felt like that - believe you me, you are NOT. I think the weight gain is a combination of voracious appetite - I could eat ALL the time - I don't. I put a stone on in a week when we went to Greece for a much-needed family holiday after my hospitalisation. I don't know what to suggest - other than sensible eating - but then I don't over-eat now and I'm still a generous size 16 - which when you are only 5'4" is definately more Ma Larkin than Kate Moss.Where are you seeing Take That - we're going to Old Traffs in June and can't WAIT - 4 deeply tragic 40 plus alot women. You must make that.If its any consolation - I'm actually very well on mitrazapene - I just get these stupid "I must be thin - I can do this alone" moments - but then lets face it - if I wasn't like that - I'd have probably never battled with depression in t'first place.I'd say to start with - take about 1 hour before bedtime - initially I was extremely drowsy - I started off on Zispin (the soluble variety) but was suicidally depressed at that stage. Now, I'm pretty relaxed - sometime when I head upstairs - I can read for an hour after taking them now.Don't be reading owt horrible on the net - if you want to know ANYTHING about them, just PM me instead. I only work 2 days' a week - so I'm usually around at some point.Good luck - if you are feeling wobbly - thats completely normal.Sue xxxx


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## Guest

Oh sorry Cat - D3 - my mate Marko - who posts alot on IBS-D and the general forum and is very knowledgeable and up to speed about supplementation - suggested that I give them a try. I toddled along to our little health-food store and got some - the health food lady took the time and trouble to contact the supplier to check for any contra-indications for use with anti-d's and was told it was fine. I took the first one with my lunch today - so I'll let you know if they make any difference in a week or so.Sue xxx


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## CatUK

Thanks again Sue I'll just have to resist the urge to eat if I get the urge that is when on the tablets. I guess I'll just have to be strong and tell myself I don't need something (craving those Maltesers bunnies at the moment that's just comne out for easter lol).I'm seeing Take That in June as well at Old Trafford. I saw them last tour and had a great time when there, it's just the travelling to and from that gets me (very anxious when I'm on trains etc). Thanks again.


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## Guest

Oh I know what you mean darl - I'm not terribly splendid at going out of an evening - but its always worth the effort. Well I might see you - I'm the 40 plus alot woman who looks more spookily like Michelle Pfieffer than Michelle Pfieffer - I wish.Not eating is really, really hard. I wish I had more tips - I'm always better the days I work cos I don't have time to do more than grab a coffee - minging about the house and hot buttered toast and nutella spread are my absolute downfalls.Sue xxx


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## CatUK

Wow do I feel weird. I took my 1st tablet last night and within 30 minutes of taking it I was ready for bed. Slept not too bad despite waking up a few times because I kept having strange dreams. This morning though I'm sat here in a haze. I feel really drugged up and just can't wake up. I just feel so tired. I've not had this med before so not sure if it's normal to feel so tired and out of it after your first tablet.


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## CatUK

My counsellor has just called and made me feel guilty about taing meds. I cancelled my next appointment which is tomorrow because I knew I'd feel bad on the new meds. I told her I was on new meds and she said they were not a good idea. She said they onlhy work in the short term and I can't take them for life so what will I do when I stop taking them. She also said she can do a home visit but I really don't want one of those but not sure how to tell her this. She also said she can refer me for CBT but she doesn't think I'm ready for this as they are very strict about appointments. My heads all over the place and I don't know what to tell her when she calls me again tomorrow? I can't think straight this morning at all (she said it's because of the new meds which are horrible things).She said I need to work on my moods but thought alone as meds aren't a good thing to take. I don't know what to do now. Do I take the meds or not? The only reason I went on them is because I've been seeing my counsellor for 18 months and don't feel much better. I'm not coping at the moment and felt I needed to try meds in the short term, even my Dr saif to take them. Arrggghhh my head this morning just isn't in the mood for lectures lol.


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## Guest

Hi darl - just a quickie - just popped in from work to let the doggie out really!!!I'm sorry - but what qualifications does this councellor have exactly? Personally, I think its crass irresponsibility to "bad mouth" anti-d medication - you've been prescribed this, its not pleasant, there may well be some unpleasant side-effects for a week or so - but stick to the programme. Groggyness and vivid and sometimes unpleasant dreams are not at all uncommon - but should abate within a week or so.Speaks volumes Cat really - you've been seeing this person for 18 months with no real positive improvement, she sounds completely unflexible and unforgiving and very judgemental if you don't mind me saying.Perhaps you might be better leaving the medication for the weekend or for a quiet period when you can just be at home - work closely with the doctor, give them a week or so but note down any adverse effects and weather the storm - it will get better.Can I ask what strength of dose you are on? I'm on 30mg nightly at now can quite easily read for an hour or so after taking them - it will get better, promise.Sue xxx


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## CatUK

Thanks for the reply Sue I'm ok at the moment as I can be at home and not have to worry about going out much. I'm on 15mg (she started me on the lowest dose because she knows I sometimes get bad side effects from meds). Within 30 minutes of taking it last night I felt so tired. I literally couldn't keep my eyes open. I was watching Big Brother and was trying to fight the tiredness because I wanted to stay up and watch it but just had to get to sleep. I'm hoping it's just because of my first few days of taking it and this extreme tiredness should pass. Definately wouldn't be able to function normally if I felt this tired all the time.I have an interview to go to with the job centre on the 2nd Feb and am hoping to be awake enough to go to it (my appointment is first thing in the morning and at the mo can't even get out of bed and focus properly). I know it's just the start up side effects and fingers crossed they should go away within the next couple of weeks (well according to my drr 2-3 weeks I should start to see an improvement with my anxiety).My counsellor has said I can stop seeing her if I want so I'm going to maybe do that for a while then if need be get referred again. I just feel I'm wasting her and my time at the moment. She is really nice but we have different thoughts on meds etc so don't want to feel pressured not to take them when I feel for now (hopefully short term) that I need to give them ago. I know lots of people get a real benefit on them even though my counsellor says with anxiety meds don't help.


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## Guest

Cat, obviously its up to you darl - you know your body - but personally I think trying to cope with mixed messages when you are abit frail mentally is probably not right helpful. 15mg is a pretty modest dose - I'm confident that by beg of Feb you'll be feeling much better. Its completely normal to feel that groggy - often thats a right good sign - means the thing is getting into your system. Do remember - they are altering the brain's chemistry - so its to be expected. You PM me ANY TIME - I know what its like - I'm still here - enjoying life - its not all doom and gloom - and just think about darling like Mark O in his heavenly waistcoats!!!!!Sue xxx


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## CatUK

Well I'm on day 3 of these (take my 4th tablet tonight) and not seeing any improvements yet (infact my anxiety is worse). I know it's too early yet to notice a difference. I did think I would be sleeping better on these but I'm sleeping just as bad (even though I feel absolutely shattered all the time). I'm having really weird dreams every night which I think is why I keep waking up. Also my anixety is worse at the moment which is probably due to the tablets trying to sort my head out. The worse for me though is the nausea. It hits the same time everyday, around teatime (6pm ish). Have mentioned it to my Mum who says it could be because I'm only a few hours off taking another tablet. I do think it's down to the tablets as I wasn't getting this like clockwork nausea before, it's just strange how it hits. I have to take an anti nausea tablet straight away otherwise I think I would be sick it's that bad. Just hoping it goes away soon as I have a huge fear of being sick.


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## Guest

Hmm - this could be a side-effect though mercifully not one I experienced - it was more a case of the galloping munchies with me. You do have to give them time Cat - the wierd dreams is certainly a very typical early-stage side-effect and I know its horrible - but do give them time. I'd be inclined to see how you go on over the w/e - you've only taken 3 haven't you - if you are still feeling wretchedly sick I think I would mention this to the doctor - are you dizzy/disorientated as well - that would not be uncommon and a possible reason for the nausea?Hang in there kiddo - I'm sure things will improve.Sue xxx


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## Gutsygal

Dear Cat and Sue,Hi Cat and Sue - I've just read through this entire thread and agree with you, Sue, about just about everything you, Cat, have shared. I'm so sorry you are suffering so mcuh.I too have suffered from depression (and occasional anxiety) along with IBS-A. As a fellow veteran and sufferer, I want to add, Cat, hang in there with the meds. My own pain meds experience is limited--I take Cymbalta for depression and neuropathic pain--BUT taking Cymbalta saved my life, literally. Coping with the pain was eating away my life and all my energy. Fortunately, it worked just fine for me and continues to do so - my primary care docs and psychiatrist have monitored me pretty carefully. My siide effects included sleepiness and dry mouth (both went away after a couple of weeks) and, alas, constipation - thus throwing off my IBS symptoms. I didn't gain any weight, however. Eventually with my PCP's help I hope to lower the dosage as the pain and depression are much improved, but that's in the future. Please hang in there - you may be keeping some kind of log or diary of your symptoms to help you remember just how you felt on which day. Your counselor doesn't sound too helpful to me - I remember it took me a LONG TIME to find a psychiatrist with whom I could work too. Please, take care of yourself and make sure you get enough rest and relaxation while you're going through all this. You and your body need time to adjust.Hang in there,LoraP.S. Sue, I'm so sorry too that you've not been feeling well. Take care too.


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## Guest

Hello there luv - how nice to hear from you again.I'm absolutely fine - I was a stupid sod, felt fed up being big and tried to be clever and take myself off meds - not a very smart idea. My fabbo mate Mark (Overitnow) suggested in any event I take D3 - I'm now on about Day 4 of that and back on the meds and feeling much more positive. Never self medicate (or unmedicate in my case).Yes, plenty of us here have had tussles and really black times - but there is always hope - you somehow have to throw yourself on the mercy of the docs to see you right. I'm extremely blessed, my GP has always treated me as an equal partner in all of this and lets me drive the treatment and supported me when I've "come off the waggon" so to speak - I know others have not been so lucky.You hang in there Cat - it will get better - please remember, this "weaning on" stage is just about the toughest - and I think Gutsy has a great idea - write down the symptoms and the things that concern you.Sue


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## CatUK

Lora thanks so much for the reply







I'm hanging in there and will stay on these, I know I'm crossing everything that they work.Sue I've read online that the lower the dose the more side effects you can have with Mirtazapine (and they are the most sedative at 15mg). Do you know if this is true or not? I'm going to ask the Dr when I go again in a couple of weeks if maybe I need to have my dose upped to 30mg. Hopefully though by then I will be getting some sort of benefit from the tablets so won't need anything changing. I'm going to try and take my meds at 9.30pm (about 1 and 1/2 hours before bed) and see if I feel less drugged up the next day by doing this.I also need to stop googling these tablets lol. I've read so many things saying how people had been on them for months and still felt drugged up no better. Seems to be the same everywhere. Just hoping I'm one of the ones they work for as I seem to be getting nowhere with my anxiety and depression alone. Thanks again Lora and Sue for the replies and hope you are both keeping well


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## Guest

Cat my darling - PLEASE DO NOT READ AND SCARE YOURSELF SENSELESS IRRESPONSIBLE AND BADLY RESEARCHED SCAREMONGER STORIES ON THE NET. There - said my piece - I have been taking 30mg mitrazapene since about Feb 2006 - infact I'm the GP's longest mitrazapene medicated patient in the practice - he wants me to give a talk to a patient group in March. I was a silly bugger and tried to muck about with the dose - but apart from looking like Ma Larkin's slightly better looking younger sister - I'm fine, really fine.As to the lower doseages causing more side-effect - yer what - that doesn't sound very feasible - I couldn't comment - I've only ever been on 30mg but its summat to run by the doctor.Please do remember its still very early days - I know how hard it is to ever believe you are going to feel better - but I'm sure you will - keep the faith.Sue xxx


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## Gutsygal

Hi Sue - it's great that you have such a good working relationship with your GP - you are a team. My doctors have been super too. SO GLAD you are back on your meds and feeling better - please, stay well. Being depressed is no fun - it is a dark and sometimes seems like never-ending journey - and the right meds can REALLY help speed up our recovery. Most of us don't realize just how treatable depression and anxiety are.Cat - your anxiety and depression sound so much like mine not too long ago. My GP and psychiatrist were so patient with me because, in between visits, I would call them up with my worries. Is that an option for you? I don't recall if your doctor has put you on anything for anxiety - perhaps that might be an option to discuss with your doctor. I was on a very low dosage first of Ativan and then of Klonopin to help me relax for a time, and those helped me immensely. I did research the meds to find out about the side effects but agreed with my doctors that it was best for me to be on them - and so far, besides the initial grogginess and dry mouth - and now, the constipation - I'm fine. Everyone's body is different, everyone's psyche is different. Cymbalta doesn't help everyone - it does help me. But it took a while - several weeks at least - for me to see any benefit from it for my depression. (The pain went away right away.) Sue is absolutely right about not reading scary stories about meds on the internet. I did the same thing in my panicky period and needed the nurse's help to steer me to reliable internet sources about my meds - Medline is one but there are others. The staff at your doctor's office will know.It does take a little time for you and your body to get used to a new medication - that's why I suggested your keeping a log or diary - so you can track small changes day by day - or even hour by hour. This diary would help you summarize how you've been feeling when you do talk to your doctor. Also, I don't know if there are any depression support groups available at your local hospital - you might call them to see and maybe check with the staff at your doctor's office too. Such groups are wonderfully helpful - I know this from my own experience. Being with fellow sufferers helps so much. We all need each other. In the meantime, maybe do something you enjoy - go for a long walk, call a friend, take a warm bubble bath - whatever you like. (I find giving myself a good foot and toe massage really helps me relax.Please, Cat and Sue - relax and take care - and have a great weekend.Lora


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## Guest

Hi Lora - I think with me its more a chronic condition but I seem to respond well to the dosages of mitrazapene that I'm on - so I'll stay put and hopefully stay well.I think the diary is an excellent idea BTW - it does help crystallise thoughts.Sue xx


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## Gutsygal

Sue - my IBS pain is the chronic thing for me and the anxiety/depression is less so. But what helps one condition seems to help the other - mind-body connection and all that. Again, I'm so glad you are on the right dosage of the right med for you. It takes time though, doesn't it? But once you are set it's amazing how much more energy you find you have.My IBS has been flaring up right royally since last May and keeping a diary is the ONLY way I have been able to track down just what was causing what symptom. I was just tired of the pain and wanted to be as free of it as possible...it's amazing how much better I feel - like I have control over this pesky thing - so, Cat, you might give that a whirl. I use the diary pages available from the IFFGD website - aboutibs.org - you can print them out. I expect the Gut Trust in the UK has something similar for purchase - you might check that website out too. Since depression and anxiety seem to go in hand in hand with the IBS symptoms, what helps one might help the other. Another suggestion for you to ponder and maybe try!Happy weekend, you both - I'm headed to a (VERY BELATED) Christmas luncheon at my aunt's nursing home where we will be treated not only to lunch but to a guitar-flute duet by a grandson and grandfather - golden oldies and the like. Should be fun.Lora


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## Guest

Oh you're not the only one having a late Chrimbo lunch pet. We had our work's do last Tuesday and great fun it was - I think we all need a cheer up at this time of year don't we. Enjoy your concert - I love live music. My 18 year old lad Jack is lead trumpet in his school's jazz band. I just hope he keeps it up at Uni.You keep in touch won't you Cat - we're here for you if ever you want to "talk". Perhaps just knowing you're not battling this alone might help.Sue xxxx


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## CatUK

Thanks so much Lora and Sue, it really helps hearing others peoples opinions who have been where I am now.I will STOP reading up on the internet (it's part of my GAD, always looking up my symptoms lol)Lora I'm only on Mirtazapine as was told this is one that will help anxiety and depression, apprantly it's a good tablet to take for GAD. I've actually (even though I'm feeling shattered) just been in town. I was out with my Mum for about 2 hours and even went into Costa Coffee and had a piece of cake and cup of tea. Something I find hard doing (never eat in public) but I did it. Have come home now and feel quite sick (maybe chocolate muffin wasn't the best choice lol). I'm supposed to be going out next weekend to Tobys Carvery for my first proper meal out in years. Just hope I can do it without getting the overwhelming nausea (I always feel like I'm going to be sick when my anxiety hits).Thanks again to you both, I really do appreciate having someone to calm my fears


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## Guest

Good girl - and bloody power to your elbow doing that trip - build on that. Sadly really for my figure - I have rather too healthy an interest in food but I desperately sympathise with this fear, particularly with respect to eating out - but push yourself - just abit and you'll be surprised. Once you start feeling well - you'll be amazed at the strides you make, I promise you.If you toddle onto the Lounge - you'll see the road trip that our family made to Canada. 3 years' ago - not quite - I was sitting in a car having downed a bottle of neat whiskey and a hideous cocktail of drugs - such was my despair - imagine never having made that trip!!!!!THINGS WILL GET BETTER - PROMISESue xxx


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## Gutsygal

Smart girl, Cat, for going out with your Mum today and having a nice bite to eat together. That's a step forward. I'm glad the Mirtazapine covers the anxiety - thanks for filling me in on that again. We're happy to help with the calming down - we've been there too. Sue is right - you WILL feel better - and that outing for next weekend sounds like still another step ahead for you. Gotta tackle one fear at a time. (I STILL freak out over any medical test - ANY medical test. Oh well..) Is there an OTC med you might take with you to the restaurant next weekend just in case the nausea strikes? Something your doctor or pharmacist says is OK to take with the Mirtazapine? Bringing something with you might help make you feel a bit more in control. You WILL have more energy too as time passes. Trust me on this.Happy Sunday, both Cat and Sue!LoraP.S. A father-son string duo serenaded us after our Christmas lunch - a good time was had by all too.


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## Guest

Oh Lora darl - I'm with you on medical procedures. I have a hideous feeling I'm due my regular smear sometime in the summer and I'm boggin' dreading it!!!!! Still, just have to get on with these things don't you.Glad you enjoyed your concert. How old is your Auntie?Cat - you keep in touch OK - Lora and I are rooting for you girlie.Sue xxxx


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## CatUK

Thanks Sue.Took my tablet 2 hours before bed yesterday and still feeling like I have a massive hangover today. Really hoping this wears off soon as I can't function properly at the moment. Also have the huge hunger cravings. Have allowed myself what I call a piggy weekend then tomorrow back on my diet (bought loads of those soupfulls for my dinners this week lol). Even though I feel really really hungry I still feel really sick which I've put down to a mixture of the tablets making my anxiety worse before it gets better and the fact I'm so tired (always feel sick when I'm tired). Fingers crossed I'll start to feel the effects of the tablets soon.


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## Guest

Watch those cravings chuckie egg - I put a stone on in a week!!!! I'm sure you won't succumb but thats the only downside of the medication - almost constant hunger - so good luck with that.I'm here anytime you want to PM me.Sue xxx


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## CatUK

Just come on here for a moan really.Have been really down today as we have just had to take one of out cats Amber (who's 9) to be put to sleep. I'm in floods of tears now thinking about it. She had a build up of fluid on her abdomen which kept coming back over the weekend. We spent today with her to say goodbye but we couldn't hold out any longer as she couldn't keep down fluids anymore. Just feel so lost without her. Keep looking where she's been asleep and seeing her not there is awful. Just can't stop crying when I think about what we've lost.Anyway sorry to moan, just having a really down day which I supposed is to be expected. Will be glad when I get to bed tonight so I can get today over with.


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## Guest

Oh darling - can totally relate - we had 2 heavenly puss-cats who both made it to 16 - but they were brother and sister and went within 3 months' of each other - its HELL. That will not help anything - but separate real, genuine grief from your other mental "wrinkles".Sue xxxx


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## Gutsygal

Cat -I'm SO Sorry about Amber - we've had cats we dearly loved too. Just let yourself grieve a bit - cry if you want to - and slow down a bit more. Here's yet another suggestion for you for overall relaxation - maybe try lying down for 20 minutes or so, just put your feet up. That still helps me to relax a bit. Sometimes I remember how our first cat used to sleep on my ankles while we both slept at night. There is nothing holding and stroking a purring cat to help me relax. You too, maybe.Sue, my aunt is 95 years old. She still enjoys the music we have at these get-togethers. from one of your buddies across the pond who's still learning how to relax,Lora


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## CatUK

Thanks Sue and Lora.I'm still weepy today but just trying to tell myself it was for the best as she was suffering and she's in a better place now. It helps slightly that we have other cats we can make a fuss of.The tiredness from the tablets I think is starting to ease a bit. Still have a bit of a cotton wool head but hopefully this is the turnaround and I will feel better soon.


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## Guest

Oh bless - other pets are always a help right enough Cat.If the tiredness is abating and you are now left with wooleyheadedness, this sounds promising - how long have you been on them now? Are you due a check back with the docs - it might be worth scheduling an appt after you've been on them for say a month - just for a progress review and to flag up any questions. This all sounds promising though.Sue xxx


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## Gutsygal

Cat - I agree with Sue, sounds like things are getting better for you meds-adjustment-wise. It took at least two weeks - longer, i think - for me to start to feel less sleepy after starting the new meds. Hope you all aren't icebound - we are and it's SO QUIET - kind of eerie, really.Lora


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## CatUK

I've been takijng the tablets for I think 9 days now. Just as I said I was feeling less sleepy the next thing I know I'd dropped off while watching tv for an hour lol. Think it's just the stress of yesterday catching up with me.Am going back to the the Dr the end of next week if I can get an appointment (otherwise the week afterwards). Dr said to give them 2 - 3 weeks before making another appointment. I've been given a months supply so will have to go back soon anyway to get some more or see if I need my dose upping.Lora, the weather here is freezing and wet but apart from that ok. Think I'd be spooked with everything so quiet lol. Hope it gets better for you soon


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## Guest

I'm sure you're right darl - its horrendous grieving for a pet isn't it.As I said before, this sounds very promising - you are obviously not going to get adverse side-effects now - not after 9 days. Go and have a good chat with the doc, take a list of questions and concerns - I find that helpful - its often difficult to remember what you want to ask isn't it once you get infront of the doc.Sue


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## Gutsygal

Cat - Sue's right, it is horrendous losing a beloved pet. The whole grieving process has a way of coming and going - like waves.And she's also right about making a list of questions for the doctor - doing this helps me too. Getting answers to your specific questions and concerns will help ease your mind still more whenever you're able to schedule your next appointment. You're definitely on the mend though, it sounds to me as well.Cat and Sue - let's hope the groundhog does see his shadow come Monday. At least it is a lot pleasanter here and we are all feeling more chipper.Lora


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## Guest

Oh wow Lora - whereabouts are you from? I loved that film - its so clever isn't it - dear old Ned Ryerson!!!!Yeah - keep in touch Cat - I'm sure it'll be all uphill from here darl.Sue xxx


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## CatUK

Well I thought my tiredness was easing and I guess every so slightly it is but still don't ever feel fully awake. Also can't just jump out of bed, takes me about half an hour after waking up to let the sleepy feeling finally ease a bit and for me to focus. My anxiety has suddenly crept up a bit as well for some reason, again I think it's down to these tablets,hoping it's just my body adjusting to them as I can't have this heightened anxiety as I was bad before anyway. Also my appetite is ravenous, it's so hard not to give into it. Going to have to tell my Dr's all my symptoms and see what she says. Apparantly the 15mg dose is given the people with GAD (general anxiety disorder) because of the sedative efftct, it's supposed to be calming (yeah right). The higher doses are used to treat depression and are supposed to be less sedative. I just hope my Dr either ups my dose (can't be this tired all the time as I'm so spaced out I can't leave the house) or changes my tablets. Saying that though I doubt she would change them as she doesn't believe meds work for anxiety (I've heard so many people improve their anxiety with meds). I can't go back to no meds as nothing else seems to work (counsellor says I'm not strong enough for CBT yet) but if my Dr doesn't believe meds work what am I supposed to do?It'll only be the 2nd time I've seen this Dr when I go back as my usual one is off on maternity leave. Just wish my old one was back as she was happy to try me on other meds but I was too scared too. Now I've plucked up the courage too I can't get anxiety meds anyway. Just really hope these ones kick in, been 11 days now I think


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## Guest

Hang on Cat - maybes I'm being thick - but isn't anxiety just part and parcel of depression - I still can't get my head around the fact that a lower dose would make you more anxious - doesn't make any sense at all??????I know, in particular citralopram can give folk heightened anxiety but I can't say that was ever really an issue with these - though they definately took about 6/8 weeks before I was seeing any real sort of improvement, though, bear in mind, I was suicidally depressed.I think with any type of mental illness - you need firmness of purpose, you need to have confidence in whatever treatment is prescribed, rather than wavering about between different types. I know how bloody tough it is - but you're still only on about week 2 aren't you and would be extremely lucky to be feeling on top of the world after that comparatively short length of time.I suppose its difficult for me to remember when I stopped feeling groggy of a morning - I certainly don't now - well no more than anyone else who has to get up at 6.00am, get 3 kids out and ready for school and a doggie to sort out too.I wish there was more I could suggest but please, please, please be patient - things will get better.Hang in thereSue xxx


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## CatUK

I'm not sure these agree with me. I know the start up side effects can be rough but I just feel so ill. I feel sick all the time and I feel like I'm on the verge of sleep 24/7. I'm not sleeping well as I'm having really vivid dream all night every night and keep waking up because of them. I just feel awful. I went to bed last night about 11.30pm after taking my tablet at 9.30pm. I slep awful all night because of the dreams and this morning woke up at 9.00am, spent half an hour trying to wake up then another half an hour feeling like I was going to be sick.I seem to spend most of my days in a drugged up haze feeling shattered and really really sick. I just don't think they agree with me so think I should stop them. I actually feel worse on these than I did on Citalopram and they were bad enough. Can't get an appointment with my Dr for 2 weeks (she only does 2 half days a week) and I just can't take these for another 2 weeks until I can see her. Just feel lost and don't know what to do anymore. I've not left the house since last Saturday because I feel that tired and sick (even though I feel sick I can't stop eating). I've got counselling on Thursday and if I'm still on these tablets I can't go because I feel so ill.Looks like back to trying to find another med that actually works for the anxiety.


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## Guest

Oh Cat I'm so sorry - this nausea doesn't sound good and at the end of the day if its making you feel worse then they are probably not suitable. However, you need proper medical supervision - if you've been on them for about 2 weeks you probably need to taper off them slowly and I'd urge you to get an appt - with any GP TOMORROW. I'd take one this evening and then try and get there during the morning.As you know - you won't be able to just get on another one - you'll need some time for the mitrazapene to get out of your system - probably at least a week I'd say - however I'm NOT medical and you need some proper medical advice.I feel wretched for you, I really do - as I say - I had a horrible battle but have been well on them for nearly 3 years - but they are just so ideosyncratic.If you want to PM me for anything else, please do - I'm off to the cinema this evening but am around all afternoon.You hang in there - this is a question of patience and persistence.Sue xxxx


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## CatUK

Thanks so much for your help Sue, I really do appreciate it.I tried calling NHS direct and they said as I'd only taken the tablets for 12 days at a low dose I should be alright to just stop taking them without too many problems. Not sure if that is ok or not but saying that I can't feel much worse than I do now. I think even if the tablets suddenly started to help I just don't like the eating side of it. I think I will have a break for a month or so then go back and ask if I can try one that's not sedative. I mean I'm sleeping worse now with these than I was before I went on them.As you say Sue it just takes time and persistance with finding that right one for you. I think I will try and get an appointment but with a different Dr as this new one doesn't believe in meds for anxiety. Thanks again Sue for being an ear to blurt it all out too, it's really helped taking to someone who's been there.


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## Guest

My pleasure darl - I know how bloody grim all this can be - believe you me, I've been where you have and worse - I think thats one of the most ghastly aspects of mental illness - feeling you're the only b*gger in this mess, you aren't and you WILL find something to help - its just a very long, hard slog sometimes.Keep in touch - you are probably right - you should be fine without since its only been for a short time, but I'm glad you had a proper chat with a health professional about it.Sue xxx


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## Gutsygal

Hi Cat and Sue - I'm so sorry you're having all these extra symptoms --agree with Sue that the new meds do not agree with you. It does take a while for them to get out of your system, but that process should start once you stop taking 'em - a week or two at the least.Take it easy as you're able - don't fear, you will find the right med to help ease your anxiety. It's hard to have hope when one medication doesn't work, but there are many, many others. We're hanging in there with you!LoraMeanwhile, on the other side of the pond, it looks like the groundhog HAS seen his shadow.


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## Guest

Well said Lora - its just a question of persistence - I had to try Prozac and Citralopram before this one worked - and I'm a right oddity - the only person in my GP practice who has been on them for so long.Just keep plugging away darl.Sue xxx


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## CatUK

Thanks again Sue and Lora, really appreciate the help.Been 2 days since I took my last tablet at the only thing I've noticed so far is I feel nauseous but I felt sick on them so think it's just tablets getting out of my system and also the fact they gave me such an appetite that I feel sick with eating so much of the wrong stuff (think that is why my IBS is bad too, as well at that time of the month looming).Already starting to feel the effects of stopping taking the tablets. Instantly I don't feel as exhausted as I did, I feel tired now rather than completely out of it. I went into town yesterday (luckily we missed the snow here) and even though I felt a bit sick and anxious I managed it. Going to give it a few weeks without meds and then maybe go back to the Dr's start of March and see where to go from here. May ask for yet another Dr as the current one says meds don't work for anxiety (I've heard of so many people starting to feel better with meds).


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## Guest

Well that sounds better Cat - I know how scarey it is, not feeling in control and if you can manage without anti-depressants thats always going to be better. Just because I'm on them (and often wish I wasn't) doesn't mean they are necessarily the be all and end all for everyone with mental "wrinkles". I think thats what you need, some time to see how you are med-free and a proper chat with a GP who will take you seriously in a month or so.Any worries in the meantime, you know where I am luv.Sue xxx


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## Gutsygal

Cat - I'm really glad you are feeling better - it's hard having to go "trial and error" on any new med or combination thereof. Sue's right again - just take it easy for a while while your system recovers and then check in with your GP. If you need meds, that's fine, but if you don't -- that's likewise fine. Just rest up a bit and look forward to spring. We'll ALL look forward to that after the roller coaster weather we are having here - one day in the teens, the next day in the 50s. That is enough to throw anyone's body and spirit off.Have a great weekend, both of you!Lora


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## Guest

Thanks Lori - its now -5 here in blighty absolutely perishing - leastways for us nesh Brits.Hope you are starting to feel much better Cat.Sue xx


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## CatUK

Well I've decided to go back to the Dr's and ask for a different sort of medication (I don't want a sedative one or one that makes me eat like a pig lol). Will be calling the Dr's on Monday to get an appointment (not with the Dr I saw last time as she doesn't think meds help anxiety).I'e heard some meds that work for anxiety and depression also help IBS. Do you think if I mention that my IBS has been bad to my Dr she will maybe give me something that helps the anxiety and the IBS?


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## Guest

Well you might be better with a lower dose of summat like Prozac but be careful about chopping and changing - do remember these meds take TIME - you'd be looking at 6/8 weeks - are you prepared to go the distance?Sue


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## CatUK

Thanks Sue, yes I'm definately prepared to last 2 months. I've only even taken 2 anxiety meds, the first Citalopram which I took for 10 weeks. The last one Mirtazapine which I knew wasn't right for me from the start because I couldn't stop eating and it wasn't helping me sleep like it was supposed to, just left me feel very drugged up 24/7. I'm definately going to stick to the meds I get, just don't want one of the sedative ones again


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## Guest

Thats absolutely fair enough my darling - but when you say "sedative ONES" - do remember, they are very ideosyncratic - you couldn't stay awake on Mitrazapene - I'm absolutely fine on it. You will have to be patient - by all means mention your concerns to the GP, there are clearly ones that are more likely to be sedative but I don't think you can simply say which will be sedative and which won't - it is very much down to how they interact with your own body/brain chemistry.I wish you well - stay in touch.Sue xx


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## CatUK

Thanks again Sue The leaflet with the Mirtazapine did say to take at night as they can cause drowsiness (think that is why my Dr gave me them as I wasn't sleeping and still didn't on them). Fingers crossed I have better luck next time. Will let you know what they give me if anything when I go. Thanks again


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## Guest

No worries chuckie egg - are you sleeping OK now?Sue xx


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## overitnow

I don't know if ou noticed the "Flavonoids and Serotonin" thread that I posted in the General Board. Since you are using the Provex, do be sure to give that a couple of months to evaluate it. Apparently, wine flavonoids can increase serotonin production.(You might also check out the vitamin minerals that Melaleuca makes. The Vitality Pack stopped me from nodding off behind the wheel in about 10 days after it was begun.)Mark


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## CatUK

Thanks Mark, I am taking Provex CV at the moment but can't get my hands on anymore so will have to try taking just grape seed extract after these have run out.Sue no I'm not sleeping still. I fall asleep really quickly but after about 3 each morning I keep waking up on and off. Sometimes I wake up feeling sick which sets of my anxiety, other times I wake up with my tummy hurting (at the bottom) and other times I just wake up. I dream really vivid dreams every night and think that has effect on me (sets my tummy off hurting and feeling sick, maybe dreaming is setting off my anxiety). Either way I'm still shattered (just not as bad as I was on Mirtazapine).


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## Guest

Oh dear 3.00am is the witching hour for depressives - I used to wake then all the time when I was ill. Sounds like you are going to need something - constant lack of sleep is a trigger for depression - not trying to scare you but you must then get back to the docs for something to break that particular cycle.I do feel for you so much - but you WILL get there - its just going to take some trial and error.Sue xxx


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## CatUK

Thanks Sue. Didn't know 3.00am was the time a lot of depressives wake up, interesting to know. Just tried calling my Dr and it's engaged but will keep trying today until I get an appointment. Thanks again Sue for your support. I hope you are feeling ok?


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## Guest

Oh yes - it certainly seems to be - when I was in the loony bin - we all wandered about then having a cup of tea - it made it less gruesome.I'm absolutely grand thanks luv - busy applying for jobs (which I don't really want - but we need me to be earning more money unfortunately, like everyone else in the country at the moment) and busy getting some homemade soup ready for a posse of elderly and decrepit aunts who are coming for lunch tomorrow.Sue xxx


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## CatUK

Well I have an appointment Friday afternoon. Not seen this Dr before but my Mum saw her for the first time last week and said she's really lovely which is just what I need (about my age as well apparantly which is nice). Will let you know how I get on. Just hope I get something new to try that is aimed at anxiety mainly (as well as depression). My counsellor keeps pushing me to do CBT but I just don't think I'm strong enough for that yet


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## Guest

Well, all the best for that darl - I think the last thing you need when you're feel abit fragile mentally is some well-meaning soul pushing your towards a treatment that you're not up to.Just remember - be patient - give this one a real chance.Sue xxx


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## CatUK

Thanks Sue, I really will give this one a chance (if I get one). Thanks Sue for all your help and reassurance, it's great to see someone who meds does work for and that you are being able to get on with your life, hopefully I'll be able to do that one day soon.


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## Guest

You will - its not easy - it takes patience and persistence and its a bloody uphill struggle - I still get grim days but yes mostly I suppose I'm a "success story" - I feel passionately that anti-depressants have been given all negative press - I'd be dead without them, simple as.Sue xxx


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## CatUK

Well I'm back from the Dr's (new Dr and she is really nice). I've been given 20mg of Fluoxetine (Prozac) to take once a day. Really scared of taking them as I'm scared they'll make me sick (just my silly phobia). Also I'm not sure if I should take them in the morning or at night as she didn't say, from looking around it should be in the morning but not sure. Don't want to take one and not sleep but also don't want to take one in the morning and feel absolutely drugged up for the rest of the day (like I did on Citalopram). Anyone had any experience of these and know when I should take them please? Thanks


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## Guest

I'd be inclined to call her Cat - just to check. As far as I can recall, I took the Prozac first thing.It is scarey starting any anti-depressant medication - but you should be fine after a week or so. I'd be inclined to start taking them over the w/e or at a time when you don't, for example, have to do a demanding day's work and when you are with somebody else. Sorry - can't remember if you are married, with a partner or live alone?Keep a close eye on any side-effects and work closely with the GP - this one sounds a good egg so you should be fine.Good luck - you know where I am.Sue xxx


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## CatUK

Thanks Sue.I took my first one this morning and apart from being a little tired and when I first took it slightly queasy (think that was in my head though) I'm feeling ok. I took it with my breakfast so think that helped it sit a little better. Hopefully I've found one that agrees with me, very early days but I've everything crossed this one works over the next couple of months


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## Guest

Cat - please do give this one a real shot - it is hard to start with - but try for 6/8 weeks at least - if you are OK on Day 1 that bodes well. Trouble is, you sound like me - a terrible "somatiser" - you imagine you are going to feel sick, dizzy, whatever - and chances are you will. Just stay steadfast - this may well suit you better.Good luckSue


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## CatUK

Oh Sue I am the worst for making myself ill, one of my problems is health anxiety so if I read something I think I have got it. Tried to stay away from reading too much about these tablets as I know I will convince myself I'm sick. I will definately stick with them, told myself I will give till my birthday on them and see how I'm feeling (birthday is 19th April so about 6 weeks). Fingers crossed I will get somewhere this time, just want to feel better.Hope you are ok Sue


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## Guest

Yes, I really wouldn't read the literature too much - obviously any worrying side effects - work with the doctor, get her on your side - if you deal with just one GP that'll help alot.I'm fine - didn't you read my "wierd anniversary" thread - just under this one? See - it CAN be done - and I was in a much worse state than you are now - so take heart.Sue


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## CatUK

Does anyone know if Fluoextine/Prozac can cause stomach pain? I started taking the fluoextine on Monday then by Tuesday I had really bad stomach pains right in the middle of my lower abdomen with an aching under the right side of my ribs. Nothing I've done has got rid of the pain. I've tried exercising, painkillers, anti spasmodics, gas products (as it does feel gassy as well). The pain is not as bad first thing in the morning then I take my tablet and the pain gets bad and doesn't settle down again until I get up the next morning, then it starts all over again. I don't go back to the Dr until next Friday and can't have these stomach pains for another week as they are really getting me down, they are not sharp on anything, just feels like someones holding my stomach tight and not letting go. Doesn't feel like any IBS pain I've had before other than I can feel gas.


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## Guest

I'd be inclined to phone the GP and ask. I've no idea but that doesn't sound like a "typical" early symptom on anti-depressants - dizziness, heightened anxiety, palpitation, increased/decreased appetite, sex drive and weight fluctuations are the sort of thing you'd expect.Sue


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## CatUK

Well I'm going through the side effects now. Feel so achy all over, really tired and have terrible brain fuzziness. Feel sick all the time, anxiety is awful, really dizzy. Just feel so awful I don't know how I'm going to make it to the Dr's on Friday as I'm scared to go out. The weather is glorious too and I'm stuck in doors. Need to pop in town somehow this week as I have to gte my Mum a Mothers Day present even though she's told me not to bother feeling so rough.


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## Guest

Cat - I don't want to second guess whats going on here too much - but it strikes me that every time you are put on a new anti-depressant - you get yourself into such a stew that is it possible you are somatising symptoms. I'm not taking away the horrible "place" that you are clearly in - but the sense of relief when you came off Mitrazapene was evident even "in print" so to speak. I just wonder if really anti-d medication in any way, shape or form is right for you. Its a tough call - cos yes, they are very difficult to "wean on" and you do have to brace yourself for some choppy old waters - I got worse before I got better thats for sure and I'm not taking away how distressing it is to feel like this - but please be absolutely honest - are you giving yourself a real chance to make this work????? How long have you been on Prozac for? If you this distressed - you need to arm yourself with a list of concerns and questions and RING THE GP TODAY.I hope you don't think I've spoken out of turn but you do have to be brutally honest with yourself - anti-s are not for everyone - I stuck with the programme cos.... well you've read my story - frankly I was too ill to do anything else - but perhaps you'd be better without? Its time for some hard soul searching I would say.BestSue


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## CatUK

Thanks Sue for the reply and no I don't think you've spoken out of turn at all. I thought about it for a while (well probably over a year) before deciding to go back on meds. I decided to in the end because I was getting much worse and not better, the counselling wasn't doing anything for me and I could see myself getting agoraphobic again. I thought the Prozac was ok at first because after the first tablet I felt normal then after taking my 2nd one I had stomach pains. These have now eased off but have got the typical start up side effects that I think most people get. Was told by my Dr that my anxiety would get much worse for the first couple of weeks and I would probably feel queasy etc. I think I'm just very sensitive to any news meds but I need to stick with them as without them I am getting nowhere except for falling into a black hole I'm scared I wouldn't get out of. I'm just going to try and ride the side effects out and mention them to my Dr on Friday and see what she thinks. Hopefully I'll be ok soon?


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## Guest

Cat - nobody but nobody would ever say that weaning onto anti-d's is a picnic and of course its worse cos you are a highly anxious person but do try and stay with it and see what the doctor says on Friday. All this chopping and changing is not going to do you any good, so if you possibly can, stay with the programme at least til the w/e and see how things develop.Obvious thing really - but do try and keep busy - do you work? If not, get out and try and enjoy this glorious sunshine - gentle exercise is good for depression anyway and sitting and brooding and over-analysing is going to compound your problems.You know where I am if you need further help and support.Sue xxx


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## M&M

Butting in here out of turn, so I apologize for that!I just wanted to make sure you had seen our sticky thread here that contains additional resources for managing anxiety and depression. Here is a link:http://www.ibsgroup.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=96277You are more than welcome to post about your anxiety issues here, but you might want to check out some of those resources also. There are some links on there to Message Forums that are strictly for anxiety and depression. So they might be of some additional help to you, even just reading what others have done in similar situations.Keep hanging in there! You are doing the right thing in continuing to pursue treatment, and I really wish you all the best!


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## Guest

Well done M&M - thats a good list - I think, when you are battling with mental health issues - thats the worst of it - feeling isolated and alone. I know when I was very unwell, I did ring both SANE and the Samaritans and have to say was underwhelmed by lack of support from both. I felt brushed aside and was simply told to visit the GP - I was suicidal and it was 2.00 in the morning - I felt they could and should have been more proactive - heavens above, they must be highly trained I would have thought.Check in Cat - when you can luv.Sue


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## CatUK

Thanks for the list M&M, I'm already a member of one of those forums for anxiety and it does help.I still feeling really shattered, not as bad when I first wake up but within an hour of taking my tablet I'm like a zombie again. Still feel sick but I think that is down to my anxiety being worse at the moment and the fact I'm so tired (always feel sick when I'm tired). Got the Dr's in 2 days so going to see what she says about the side effects. Even though I feel rough I still want to carry on with them so don't want her stopping me yet


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## Cherrie

Hi CatUKSorry, me too, I'm plunging into this thread out of turn. I've read this whole thread here and there, also, but because of my personal stuff unrelated to anything happening here I was not able to read through the entire 5 pages. So I apologize for that, too.From what I get from what I did read, I feel that I need to say this first and foremost -- I have been told by all my dr.s (GI and family dr.s alike) that for people whose anxiety/depression is severe enough at the time they seek medical help (no matter whether it's a short term or a long term thing), _the best way_ is to resort to both talk therapy *AND *medication. And personally I feel that any dr./therapist who denies patients medication (esp. when medication is needed and can do a lot of good) is at least not offering a balanced view; and I would go see another dr. at once, or at least seek a second professional opinion.It is great that you're already on one of the forums that's on the list M&M posted. These specialized sites on generallized anxiety issues may offer insights and ways to cope that a site focused on IBS and IBS related anxiety does not have knowledge of. And like M&M said, you're very welcome to post your anxiety issues on here any time, and we're all here for you -- and it's also great that you're aware of these other resources in case we run out of ideas on here...Do stick around and keep us updated on how the dr's appt goes and how you're doing.


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## CatUK

Thanks for the reply Cherrie. I stopped seeing my counsellor because she doesn't agree with meds and whenever I mentioned I was on them she used to get snooty and say they don't really work and aren't the way to go. I felt I needed them so I decided to stop seeing her as I didn't like how she was making me feel.She is referring me onto CBT which has a few months waiting list so hopefully by the time my appointment comes around I will feel strong enough to do it. Will let you know how it goes on Friday, stressing she'll tell me to stop them because of the stomach pains I've been having (apparantly it is one of the rare side effects, cramping, gas and pain). The pains are not as frequent though so hopefully I'll be ok


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## Guest

Cat - I shouldn't imagine she'd stop you - any GP worth their salt will let YOU drive the treatment. I really would urge you to give this at least 6/8 weeks - I know my mitrazapene didn't start to benefit me until at least that period of time, possibly more - otherwise you are going to be back on the medication "roundabout" - trying something else. I'm sure alot of this nausea is, as you say, down to your somatising and heightened anxiety - thats not to say you should address your concerns to the docs - she may suggest a reduced dosage or a different time of day for taking them. I know I did have reduced appetite and a very dry mouth when on Prozac.Its not easy - but be persistent - you WILL get there.Sue


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## CatUK

Thanks Sue. I definately have a dry mouth, I'm always licking my teeth as they are so dry. My appetite has decreased, eat breakfast with my tablet then force myself to have lunch but dinner lately has been a slice of toast as I feel sicker at the moment around teatime for some reason.I definately will give the tablets a couple of months, I hate the start up side effects but if they work in the long run I'm more than willing to stick it out. The only reason I didn't with mirtazapine was the really extreme fatigue but not being able to sleep and the fact I couldn't stop eating (not good when trying to lose weight lol). Thanks again Sue for your help, really appreciate it. Hope you are having a nice week and enjoying the nice weather? Not felt upto going out so have been sitting out back in the sun for a bit today


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## Guest

I think the side-effects you describe are far from uncommon - so keep the faith this time. Another symptom I noticed with Prozac was constantly greasy hair - I'd wash it and 2 hours' later - wringing with grease. It is all abit distressing - but I suppose we all have to keep in mind the total h*ll that Jade Goody is facing - this is hard and tough but weather it out.I'm grand thanks - its been glorious hasn't it - been at work and tomorrow but I've Friday off and my sister is coming over from Ireland for a whistle-stop tour - so hopefully will get out to the Derbyshire Peaks with our Shetland Sheepdog Milohere he is with our little one Sophie







Sue


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## CatUK

So glad you've got time off to enjoy the weather, Fridays supposed to be a hot one again. What a lovely picture Sue, beautiful daughter and little Milo is so cute. Would love a dog myself but with cats not possible (they would beat the dog up I think lol).Still feeling sleepy today and woke up feeling like I was going to be sick but that's easing off now. Just can't wait to get to the Dr's tomorrow and get it done and over with, working myself up about going to the Dr's (do this everytime though lol).


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## Guest

Thanks Cat - yeah - they're not that hideous are they?Don't get worked up about the docs - I thought you said this new one was sympathetic and proactive anyway - don't forget they'll have seen hundreds of folk "wobbling" about on early stage anti-depressants - just take it in your stride - you'll be grand.Sue


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## CatUK

I know you're right Sue. The new Dr seems really nice, it's just the sitting in a crowded waiting room that sets my anxiety off. I always try to get there just at the time of my appointment which luckily last time I was straight in (she'd had 2 people not turn up before me). Just me not being good in crowded places in case I make a fool of myself and have a panic attack (I also look like I'm having a hot flush, my face and neck go really blotchy which is embarrassing)


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## Guest

But listen - you are always convinced you look like a fool - do you honestly think a load of ill people in a doctor's waiting room are going to give a flying fart about one anxious girl???? I used to cringe when my son Jack used to bawl his lungs out in the surgery - nobody gave a toss. If you are right nervous, jot down a list of questions to ask the doc. Whats this appt for - just an update?Sue


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## CatUK

Well I'm back from the Dr's. Told her my side effects and she said are they bad enough you want to stop and I said no so I have to go back in 3 weeks time (which will be 4 weeks as they are closed for Easter) to see how I'm doing. She's put my tablets onto repeat prescription now so I don't have to go back everytime to see her. Felt ok today even though she was running late and I was in the waiting room for 30 minutes (they had Mamma Mia on the tv and I was so mad as I haven't seen it yet lol). Even popped into town afterwards to get my Mum a little something for Mothers Day even though she told me not to waste my money. Not to wait and see if the tablets kick in, she asked how my mood had changed and I said I hadn't noticed any difference for the better yet and said it's early days so see how I am in a few weeks time. Fingers crossed they start to work soon.


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## Guest

Well done you Cat - you stick with it luv - I'm sure you're doing the right thing. You know where I am.Sue xxx


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## CatUK

Well it's now been around 2 and 1/2 weeks and still feeling rough. Have been tired all the time and just want to sleep but am laying there at night shattered but just can't sleep. Go to sleep quite quick but waking up early hours and can't drop back off no matter how tired I am. Spending all day laying on the settee in a really shattered daze, feel asleep this afternoon for a couple of hours and woke up just as tired. Don't usually let myself fall asleep but at the moment I am just feel so tired and drugged up. Feel absolutely awful. Just hoping I feel better soon as can't go on like this indefinately. I'm supposed to be back at the Dr's 2 weeks Friday but it's closed as it's good Friday so it's now 3 weeks Friday, just feel really weepy that I have to have at least another 3 weeks of feeling this drugged up. I'm not giving up though as I knew I'd feel bad, just forgot how awful.


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## Guest

Well Cat, you may have to face up to the fact that you are one of the very unlucky minority who anti-d's just don't suit. I'm being harsh with you - but are you SURE you aren't just "willing yourself" not to get used to them. I'm sorry - but abit of plain speaking is the order of the day - I'm not blaming you for a moment but there seems to be a definate reluctance to get used to the meds. It is no picnic but you have to look at your options - were you managing OK without any medication - does this seem to be making a difference in a positive way.Forgive me - but are you in work - have you had to take time off or do you have an enlightened employer. I don't think your position is helped one iota by spending alot of time on your own and having the "opportunity" to brood. That is never, ever helpful - particularly when you are mentally ill. Can you stay with friends or relatives or something?Its totally dismal having disrupted sleep but this catnapping and waking in the small hours is absolutely classic depression I'm afraid. I'm wondering whether perhaps your GP would prescribe a short-term sleeping tablet - this would get you through the night, might ease this hard "weaning on" period of anti-d tablets and a decent night's sleep would put things into much better perspective for you.Just tossing a few ideas into the mix - seems to be thee and me on this thread pet.Sue xxxx


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## CatUK

Thanks for the reply Sue. I'm wondering if meds suit me as well as I seem sensitive to a lot of different things I've had. I really want these tablets to work as I'm not managing without, the main reason I went back on them though was for the anxiety which is strange as I'm not sure Prozac works for that. I am definately sticking with it as I want them to work, just worried I won't be able to function though or maybe 20mg is a high dose for me. Have read someone else (on an anxiety forum) was on 20mg and felt like me so she told her Dr who gave her 2.5mg and she felt much better. Just doesn't sound a lot to me but who knows. I will keep perservering as I want to feel better and less anxious, just hoping it's the initial start up side effects as I know these can last for weeks. I don't work no, can't because of my GAD. I am at home on my own most of the time and don't go out much because of my bad anxiety. Just wish I could sleep at night and then I may feel better, Prozac though are known for causing insomnia, not good when you don't sleep much anyway


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## cherrypie09

Hi. CatHas your doctor put you intouch with any one from mental health. (Do you live in England), if so they can help you. I see someone every week, Cognitive Behaviour Terapy is supposed to be good, but i have to wait 2-3 months for it, but there is a programme on the web, called Beating The Blues, you have to be being seen by someone from mental health and they can give you a activation code, to access the programme, its CBT on line. I am waiting for my code to start it. I have suffered from depression for years on and off, but have realy been stressed and anxious and depressed over the last three years, resulting to a nervouse breakdown 2 months ago. I am now on Mirtazapine, started on 15mg now on 30mg. I also have very bad IBS-D, which causes a vicious circle, it starts up, my anxiety gets worse causing IBS to flare up, etc....


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## Guest

When I was very unwell I signed up for some programme on-line but found it totally useless - however - different things work for different folk - again CBT I found very hard to get onto a programme and it certainly isn't for everyone.It seems such a shame that you couldn't stick with mitrazapene Cat - it seems to be particularly effective at dealing with anxiety type of depression that you and I have battled with and its a good sleeping aid. I think Prozac is notoriously bad for problems with sleep but then again others I know have found it great.It seems a shame that you have so much time on your hands alone - that is never very conducive for helping with mental health wrinkles - could you not go and stay with your parents or something while you are so unwell? Did you run the sleeping tablet suggestion by the doc - just as a short-term aid. My doc initially prescribed a 2 week course cos they are very addictive but I do think you've got to get a proper night's sleep - you can't possibly function on such disrupted rest.Sue


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## CatUK

Thansk for the replies Cherrie and Sue. I was seeing someone from mental health for 18 months but found I wasn't getting anywhere with it. Plus she didn't like me to take medication while seeing her and I felt I needed that extra crutch while trying to get myself better. I am on a waiting list for CBT, got my letter through earlier this week saying there is a 5 month waiting list so won't see anyone till around August. I wish I could have stuck out the Mirtazapine as well, if it was just the tiredness I may have tried it longer but it was the fact I couldn't stop eating which bothered me as I'm down about my weight as it is (5ft 9 and a size 14 and hate it) as am trying to lose it. I still live at home with my Mum and sister (even though I'm 29 in April I just don't feel like I could live alone at the moment).I've not got another Dr's appointment until 3 weeks today, she only does Fridays so her waiting list is quite long, plus she wanted to see after I've been on my tablets for around 5 or 6 weeks. I slept better last night, was asleep by 11.30pm and first started waking up around 6.00am. Still early for me as don't usually get up till around 8.30am but still a much better nights sleep. Now I'm just waiting for this drugged up feeling to subside a bit, trying to keep myself active around the house. Been painting and doing all the cooking and cleaning just to keep my mind off things. Can't go out much at the moment because I feel dizzy on the meds and can only go out with someone and my Mum and sister both work fulltime which only leaves weekends for me at the moment. Thanks again for the replies. I'll get there hopefully, just going to take time and perserverance


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## CatUK

In a bit of a panic at the moment. Just called the Dr's to make my appointment and was told it's my new Dr's last day today. Am panicking now as the other female Dr doesn't believe in meds for anxiety so worried of going back and seeing her. She's also very snooty and looks like she can't be bothered. Don't know what to do now. The only appointment they had available in the next 2 weeks is th 6th April which is no good for me as it's the day I'm due on and I have really painful periods (that are quite heavy too) and I never go out the first 2 days of my period as I'm that bad. Now in a total stress.


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## Guest

Cat - there must be other doctors in the practice who are more sympathetic.Look I know I'm backpedalling - but was the only reason you came off mitrazapene was the unwanted weight gain? Surely in the great scheme of things this is pretty small beer compared to a young woman of 28 being a prisoner in her own house and not being able to work? You do have a voracious appetite but you can learn to curb that and try and eat healthily? I'm a size 16 and very much smaller than you and actually I really don't mind being abit buxon (it does have its advantages believe me!!!!!).I suggest that you take this appt but take somebody with you. I know you said that your mum and sister work - but surely they can take a day off and accompany you?I think you need more support than just the GP - have you been referred to a psychiatrist. After all, they are much more qualified in dealing with medication and its attendant problems? It seems to me as if you are rather being pushed from pillar to post. It might also be worth asking whether you might qualify for a Community Psychiatric Nurse - I had one when I came out of hospital and though I didn't really need her - she was a wonderful woman and a great support, not only to me but also Paul and the kids.You clearly can't go on in this state can you - lurching from one medication to another. Would it be so terrible to see a psychiatrist. I saw one in the community after I came out of the loony bin - about every 6 months and found her very pragmatic and helpful.You know where I am.Sue xxx


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## CatUK

Thanks Sue. There are only 3 other Dr's at the practice, only one is a woman (don't know why I feel better with a woman Dr, just feel more comfortable). I tried getting one with the other lady Dr that is there as I've seen her once and she was really nice but she is also very popular. She only does a couple of afternoons a week and is fully booked for the next month. The male Dr's I've seen one of them but he's a bit of an old fuddy duddy and not very good at talking to women. Plus I'm going about my IBS too and sometimes the Dr's want to have a prod of my stomach to check nothing is going on which they are not allowed to do without a female present (seems to much hassle). I've not seen a psychiatrist since I was a child (Dr sent me to one as I was too hyper, looking back could have been adhd but it wasn't known as much when I was young). The only person I've seen is a counsellor for the last 18 months but I've stopped seeing her now and am on a 5 month waiting list for CBT.My Mum can't take a day off work on a Monday (she works for the DLA/DWP and it's there busiest days and you can't get days off on Mondays unless it's an emergency). I'm cancelling that appointment anyway because of my period. I'll just have to stick it out and hope the meds kick in soon, I'm determined the Fluoxetine is going to work, 3 weeks on Monday is still early days I guess.Am planning a trip into town on Sunday as it's supposed to be nice weather wise so hopefully that will cheer me up a bit. Currently sat here with my cat in labour so occupied today lol. Thanks again for your help and support Sue, I feel awful for pouring it all out too you. Hope you have a lovely weekend and thanks again


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## Guest

Well would it be worth seeing if you could be referred - I think you should be getting some extra support - I'm always here - but I'm NOT medical and not an expert on anti-d's other than having been on them for over 3 years. You did say you were managing to sleep now, so thats an improvement and if that keeps up - you'll be surprised how much better you'll cope.Would you consider some sort of voluntary work - just something to get you out of the house - I'm just so concerned that a girlie as young as you is living this horrible half-life? The great thing about that is that its totally flexible and if you can't face it - you don't need to go. Sorry, I'm not trying to run your life or owt but I know - god do I know how hideous it is never venturing out. Sometimes pushing yourself just abit works wonders for the morale and your mental health. I'm just kicking ideas about I suppose but you must know I'm on your side Cat.Right - things to do - you have a good w/e and lets hope the sunny sunshine puts in an appearance.Sue xxx


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