# Increased sensitivity to trigger foods after exclusion diet?



## pepperidge (Mar 26, 2013)

I seem destined to spend this Easter day in some agony. I've been religiously sticking to a FODMAP diet but last night found myself attracted to the irresistibly heavenly aroma of toasted hot cross buns and succumbed to temptation. I had just half a hot cross bun but it was enough to wake me up several times in the night with bloating and cramps and eventually several bouts of diarrhoea first thing this morning and I feel like I still have to go.

I remember having no problems with such a small amount of bread before I committed to a strict FODMAP diet. Have I lost what little ability I had to process FODMAP foods?

Maybe this has to do with the bits of dried fruits (raisins, sultanas, candied peel and currants) in the bun in addition to the bun itself but it really is a tiny portion and I have had hot cross buns in greater quantity without as much trouble before. It'd be really sad if I've permanently lost the ability to tolerate occasional small deviations from my FODMAP diet because I dearly miss some of those foods. Has anyone had similar experiences?

Happy Easter everyone!


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## rosb (Sep 12, 2012)

I have been wondering the same thing, after being on the FODMAP diet for the last few months I seem to be even more intolerant to the smallest amounts of the bad foods. I thought it was just me and my weird digestive system, but maybe not.

I too hoped that after a while I would be less susceptible rather than more I am getting rather sick of the same foods everyday. Hope you feel better soon


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## Dianaearnshaw (Feb 22, 2013)

I think this is common. I can't think of a good scientific reason for it but in nature, since the body wants to live and thrive it seems to have ways of just coping when it is not given ideal food on a regular basis, then it's a bit of a shock when it's reintroduced!

It's interesting that whilst our evolution has taken many millions of years, if nature sees an advantage in something, it can speed up the evolutionary advantage genetically - if that makes sense! A few thousand years ago that advantage was recognized in grain and dairy in particular (they were very different foods then) and some people became tolerant of them - but definitely not all!


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

A change in diet can cause some GI upset in anyone. In college I didn't like the meat much but when my parents came this one restaurant had a steak that I really really liked. Always upset the system even before IBS.

IBSers tend to be really sensitive to increases in gas and I think if you have gotten used to having very little from Low FODMAP eating that increase can be noticable. And I find sometimes if I haven't had a symptom for awhile it can be more bothersome when it comes back even if it is probably at a lower intensity than it used to be. I had to monitor pain during a clinical trial and I did say that at the end when I only had pain occasionally I think I judged it differently than when I was in a lot of pain all the time.

You could see if you tolerate a good probiotic as that tends to lower gas volume when you do eat gassy foods.


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## pepperidge (Mar 26, 2013)

Thanks for the input guys! It's good to know I'm not the only one and that this episode is not entirely unreasonable. I think it's probably partly psychological as Kathleen suggests and partly objective as Diana suggests, though the psychological and objective are probably inseparably entwined as it so often is.

Regardless, how do I go about enjoying FODMAP foods once in awhile without being "punished?" I've read about fellow IBSers who are able to slowly reintroduce a small amount of FODMAP foods into their diet as an occasional treat. Maybe half a hot cross bun was still not small enough a portion? Or are there some foods that are never going to be okay even in tiny amounts?

What probiotics would you recommend? I took Acidophilus for a while but they didn't help and (I think) made the cramps worse.


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## Dianaearnshaw (Feb 22, 2013)

I truly believe that there is a way back to health for most IBS sufferers. The gut has to be healed and only then is it possible to reintroduce those treats - although a few things will be out permanently for most people. When you have these things but are not healed, you will have problems.

The best probiotic is fresh sauerkraut. Buy it online or make it yourself but don't buy iy from a supermarket!


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## pepperidge (Mar 26, 2013)

Thanks Diana! I've found a recipe for Sauerkraut on Wikihow which seems simple enough. But cabbage has always disagreed with me - gas pains/diarrhea - I'm worried Sauerkraut will do the same.


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## Dianaearnshaw (Feb 22, 2013)

It will be different. Firstly, it is pre digested by bacteria (so you don't have to do it) and secondly, you only have a spoonful before meals - not a huge portion - never eat cabbage raw without it being fermented. When you do it, give it at least 10 days and preferably a fortnight fermentation.


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## pepperidge (Mar 26, 2013)

Hey Diana, I've made my own Sauerkraut as suggested and tried some this afternoon but it gave me bloating, bad cramps and diarrhoea all evening. Is this how it's supposed to be like initially? Or does Sauerkraut not work for everyone?

I'm also wondering if my initial apprehension towards it might have influenced my reaction to it as per our discussion on the mind-gut connection. But I did try it with a positive mind. And the pain/bloating/diarrhoea was really really bad.

Should I continue with Sauerkraut? I'm still keen to stick to it if it eventually helps.


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## pukekonz (Nov 14, 2012)

I was just about to post a similar thread. I've been on SCD diet for 3 months and am doing great. I definitely seem to have a 'safe' list of foods now and if I stick to this list I am symptom free and feel great. I can even cheat a little for example I had Indian food 5 days ago without a single issue afterwards. So the last 2 weeks I am great so I decide to introduce some new foods so at dinner I introduced 1/2 a zucchini that was peeled and deseeded AND steamed. Then around 10pm I had my SCD yogurt (usually with banana and melon) but this time I went with 5 white grapes and 1/2 apple (something I had not had in a loooong time). Before bed I noticed some bloating. Woke up in the morning and stomach was flat but major urge to go. I've been 4 times progressing from somewhat normal to D. And my stomach feels cruddy. Rather disappointing that introducing a few small things can set me off. I guess something it could be is fructose malabsorption and the apple and grapes were too much. I seem to be able to to tolerate all manner of non-fruit and non-sugar foods, I even have authentic sourdough bread 3x a day. As soon as I introduce the wrong kind of fruit my stomach goes to hell. I'm not 100% sure what this means, why it happens or if I'll ever get over it. In the last 3 months I have gotten over my gluten intolerance, lectin intolerance and lactose intolerance. Maybe fructose and sugars are my last hurdle. I pretty much know if I stay on my safe list today by tomorrow I'll feel 80-90% good then 100% the day after. All this for an apple and some grapes? ugh!


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## pepperidge (Mar 26, 2013)

pepperidge said:


> Hey Diana, I've made my own Sauerkraut as suggested and tried some this afternoon but it gave me bloating, bad cramps and diarrhoea all evening. Is this how it's supposed to be like initially? Or does Sauerkraut not work for everyone?
> 
> I'm also wondering if my initial apprehension towards it might have influenced my reaction to it as per our discussion on the mind-gut connection. But I did try it with a positive mind. And the pain/bloating/diarrhoea was really really bad.
> 
> Should I continue with Sauerkraut? I'm still keen to stick to it if it eventually helps.


I woke up an hour ago with excruciating cramps, had to use the toilet immediately and continue to have diarrhoea on and off, still very bloated and gassy. I'm beginning to wonder if the sauerkraut is not to blame for the diarrhoea because I tend to alternate between constipation and diarrhoea anyway, and have been constipated for some time before yesterday. But the pain and bloating are definitely much worse than usual so I imagine the Sauerkraut I had is flushing me out. Again, is that part of the process of restoring the gut flora? Or an adverse reaction to the Sauerkraut which means I ought to stop taking it? I don't think I can put up with the extra cramping and bloating if Sauerkraut is going to do these to me all the time.


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## Dianaearnshaw (Feb 22, 2013)

Oh dear. a couple of things: Did you ferment it for more than a week? The fermIt's possible ation process "digests" the cabbage so if not fermented long enough, it will act in the same way as raw. Nearer two weeks would be better for you.

Secondly, although it is not uncommon for sauerkraut to get bowels moving, starting small is best. A teaspoon before a meal is my usual recommenation.

Lastly, if you have a yeast overgrowth, rsauerkraut is the last food it wants. It sometimes starts to die off and this can cause the symptoms.


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## Dianaearnshaw (Feb 22, 2013)

pukekonz - lovely name!

I think fruit is a no-no for a long time. So much ibs is caused by SIBO and this usually means candida. Apart fron the sugar aspect of it, fruit has a bloom on it (seen on grapes easily) and this is yeast! Yeast plus sugar = fermentation!

I often show clients what happens when you add "sugar" to yeasts so that they can see what in happening in their tums. I always keep a natural yeast starter in my fridge. When I add warm water and a tablespoon of flour to it, it bubbles immediatey and doesn't stop until all the flour (which is sugar in its basic form) has been exhausted. Imaging this happening in your gut! Lots of bubbles with nowhere to go - bloating!

You have to stop eating the foods that these microbe live and thrive on - ALL sugars and carbohydrate foods, until it is under control and then only very gradually eat tiny amounts when reintroduced. Some people can't eat grain foods for a very long time if ever but it's not a big deal if you can cook. This is really hard to do initially but ultimately so worthwile.


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## pukekonz (Nov 14, 2012)

Thanks Diana! I definitely think I have battled sibo. I haven't had bloating or issues for a solid 2 weeks, then last night an apple and grapes and BAM mega bloat followed by off stomach all morning. I went back to my standard 'safe' foods today and am on the mend (stomach flat as a board all day). It seems just one thing sets me off then I recover in 24-48hrs. This is a huge step up as it used to be something set me off and recovery was a month or more. I do think I have improved via SCD a great deal. Also I consume 24hr SCD yogurt and recently taking s.boulardi is helping a lot. Funny thing is lately I seem bullet proof, as mentioned having indian food last week, even with rice and garlic naan bread -this would have killed me 3 months ago! I seem totally fine with bananas, melon and homemade sourdough bread. In fact something is seriously up with properly made sourdough imo as I reached another stage of improvement after having 3 slices of sourdough a day. Another odd thing with me is that I had 7 months of discomfort when bending over, like someone was pressing the edge of a board into my stomach. 3 weeks ago I got a throat infection and had to be put on Augmentin for a week. So I stuck to Augmentin + my diet + yogurt + s.boulardi.. and after 3 days of this all discomfort in my belly when bending over vanished. It was a very odd sensation, it just cleared. So who knows what the hell is up with me. Maybe augmentin nuked some longstanding bug giving me grief. I seem to be over my worst phases (from 1yr ago) and I think if I can tolerate fruits again one day I will be 100%. I expect these things take time, but I am optimistic I just have 6 more months of this maybe? My doc just ignores me like I'm a hypochondriac, my gastro specialist didn't even want to give me 5mins of his time -his philosophy was "well unless you are bleeding from your rectum and in pain you can leave now". He was like well, the gut is complex, you are out of whack, maybe post infection IBS, some get better some don't, good luck. The thing is these docs and specialists don't know much other than specific measurable lab proven causes. If it's not in their playbook, they are clueless and want you to leave them alone. Anyway, sorry for rambling.


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## SLaurenAlise (Apr 10, 2013)

pukekonz,

Aside from what Diana already posted about sugars causing the growth of yeast, I always have trouble with uncooked apples because they are too fibrous. I haven't run into too many IBS sufferers who share this particular trigger food, but I haven't been able to eat raw apple for years. Interestingly enough, Heather van Vorous's books IBS: The First Year states that processed/cooked apple is actually very good for IBS sufferers, and that turns out to be true for me -- applesauce, apple juice and even a small amount of cider are all good for me and applesauce is a particularly "safe" food. I'm not sure how applesauce would impact you if you have a yeast sensitivity, but you might want to try it...?


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## SLaurenAlise (Apr 10, 2013)

Diana,

On the subject of sauerkraut, I just want to make sure I'm understanding you correctly... I've heard sauerkraut mentioned before and I've been meaning to look into its benefits. What you're saying is that sauerkraut is a good probiotic IF fresh (not canned, from the grocery store) and fermented for approximately 2 weeks BUT NOT IF you have a yeast overgrowth like a Candida infection. Is that correct?

I have both IBS and a Candida infection, and when my doctor put me on something (Candicin, a supplement) to treat/kill off the yeast, I started having more IBS attacks. We concluded that we need to get my IBS under control and heal my stomach lining before we can address the Candida infection. So it sounds like sauerkraut might not me a good option for me right now, if I'm understanding what you're saying.

Thanks!


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## pukekonz (Nov 14, 2012)

That sounds like something worth trying. I worry about lack of fruit in my diet but cooked apple would be a great addition if I can tolerate it. I'll wait a few days until I am well again then try a little. I will say one thing that has saved my life is getting a Vitamix. It's amazing how many foods I can't tolerate, but liquified in a Vitamix I can tolerate them without a single issue. SCD diet had me quite malnourished but as soon as I started liquifying many vegetables my energy and recovery went through the roof. I think it takes a Vitamix or Blentec style blender too as I tried using regular food processors without any luck. I was foolish to not put the apple and grapes in the vitamix last night, that might have saved me some grief today. Next time I will cook the apple and vitamix it.


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## pukekonz (Nov 14, 2012)

SLaurenAlise said:


> Diana,
> 
> On the subject of sauerkraut, I just want to make sure I'm understanding you correctly... I've heard sauerkraut mentioned before and I've been meaning to look into its benefits. What you're saying is that sauerkraut is a good probiotic IF fresh (not canned, from the grocery store) and fermented for approximately 2 weeks BUT NOT IF you have a yeast overgrowth like a Candida infection. Is that correct?
> 
> ...


On a side note I recently began taking new zealand pure bovine colostrum and also l-glutamine, two key components to rebuilding the gut. I am starting off slowly though. I attempted this 3 months ago and both supplements upset my stomach, however now I seem ok with them which is hopefully a good sign.

P.S. I tried sauerkraut too and wow, it reacted to me big time. I took 1/4 teaspoon of the juice and my stomach blew up like a baloon.. i haven't messed with it since.


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## pepperidge (Mar 26, 2013)

Hi Diana, thanks for the advice! I did ferment it for 9-10 days and took about a teaspoon before lunch. I think I'll start over with a new batch and ferment it for 2 weeks this time, maybe more.

What did you mean by yeast overgrowth? I've never heard of it and don't know if I have it because the symptoms I found through an internet search are identical to IBS. Do I have yeast overgrowth, not IBS? Or both? I have carefully followed a FODMAP diet for some time now, would it also deal with possible yeast overgrowth?

Thank you again! x


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## Dianaearnshaw (Feb 22, 2013)

It is common to get ibs after antibiotics or a bout of salmonella etc. Either way, the natural gut microbes get a hammering. Women often get thrush or diarrhoea at this time. It is caused by the yeast called Candida but known as thrush in the mouth or vagina.

Most people with ibs will have some overgrowth of this yeast.

Sauerkraut is good for ibs due to the above but you may need to do a cleanse before it will really help.


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## pepperidge (Mar 26, 2013)

Thanks! Do you mean the Sauerkraut will clean me out for some time first (diarrhoea) before helping with my IBS?


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## Dianaearnshaw (Feb 22, 2013)

It isn't so much cleaning you out but with regular use, your system becomes used to it and it will affect you less. Good luck!


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