# Reality or Perception?



## Guest (Oct 19, 2002)

Hi Mike... I'm back.... this is Evie (alias Artspirit).... medicated now and on track again.I wanted to say that while I do believe that allergies can contribute to IBS.... I also believe that brain/body chemistry has a lot to do with allergies. Since I went back on Celexa, my upper respiratory allergies have improved 90%. My food tolerance has also improved.I find that eating less and eating more often, avoiding drinking large amounts of fluids with mini meals and eating fruit apart from meals are all beneficial approaches.So how's it goin'? Are ya still just as good once as you were several times?Hugs, Evie


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

EVIE:It's hard to say what I am other than freezing in this cold rainy place (I have been on the road for awhile and in Cleveland O. for about a week...wow...I remember why I moved t FLA.)As to your observations, I don't think there is really anyone knowledgeable who will disagree with the proposition you set forth. There is an article I have back at the office which was published oh a year or more ago about food sensitivities in IBS, which has an excellent schematic in it which shows the interraction between the CNS, the ENS, the Immune system (mucosal, their depiction of the circulating system is too vague but it is there just called "other mechanisms") and shows how dietary symptom generation, ENS, and CNS symptom generating mechanisms are all inextricably linked ad interractive. One cannot really call IBS a brain-gut disorder when it is a brain-gut-immune-endocrine disorder in actuality. But boy is that bulky. Sot oo bad they cut a major mechanism out of the buzz-word.Which is of course our core message and at the heart of the protocol for LEAP. This is why it is an integrated program of patient specific dietary modification (based on our ability to isolate the cell mediated reactions others cannot) combined with a proven anxiety/stress reduction program for the patients developed by a GI doc and Psychologist at a major medical center. If clinically we eliminate the substances which provoke mast cells or circulating immunocytes on their own (through eight possible mechansisms independent of the ENS and CNS) and we intervene by attenuating the CNS affect on he ENS, the GI structures and the immunocytes, well, one can get get better outomes than any single therapy alone because you have attacked from both directions.The main difference from other integrated approaches is simply that we have a way to make the diet much more patient specific much more quickly by skipping past the complicated and tedious experimantation processes with foods and additices, which are often inaccurate or not well implemented anyway.But to repeat absolutely what you say is physioligic fact. Plus if you combine pharmacotherapy specific to any symptom generating pathway you will further blunt the mechanism. The nice thing about prophylaxis, though, is that you can reduce then need for pharmacotherapy which can be accompanied by untoward side effects.Many patients end up on no medication at all anymore.Your experience with blunting even probable IgE related reactions is also very logical...you can create a environment under physical and mental distress whereby the response threshold of various immunocyte-triggering mechanisms is/are lowered, so that the mediator release is enhanced at a given level of insulkt, provocation, or "antigen presentation"...(oversimplified but that is the practical consequence).PLUS asthmatics symptoms are always worsened by the anxiety which accompanies the disease through the direct effect of certain CNS efferent stimuli upon the airays (smooth muscle) themselves independent of the degree of mediator release locally...they work together to create a self-perpetuating process.I am always glad, especially with asthmatics, to see an integrative therapeutic approach to disease managment used. This is the way to do it across the board in this century.Breathe easy! Gotta go swim out to the SUV and load er up...time to move on!







Mike


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## Guest (Oct 19, 2002)

Mike... thanx for all the good info. I think where many run into a roadblock is that they have so many different dysfunctions going on simultaneously... as in my case.... and I need to address the most urgent component first....for me that is the behavioral health part...which is why medication is a must. Once that is in better control, I think I can then venture out and address some of the more specific symptoms of the more complex related set of dysfunctions that is going on inside of me. This ain't no simple "bug".I've had allergies since the age of 5. I've had PTSD since about that same time. There are so many dysfunctions occurring inside of me these days that I often don't know which way to turn. However, as I indicated above, I think the best approach is to treat one area at a time, starting with the most urgent. More than likely when treating one dysfunction, other dysfunctions may also respond favorably... as was the case when I went back on Celexa and my allergies improved 90%.So you're a "weather wimp"... huh? Hey.. c'mon up here to Wisconsin and endure one of our winters sometime....then you'll have something to complain about.......... but cold rain? Hey... how does 30 below and 6 feet of snow sound?







Warmly, Evie


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## Julia37 (May 9, 2001)

I think cold rain is worse than snow. With snow you can have sunshine sometimes, and it's pretty with its drifts and such, and sometimes it's not so clammy and awful and actually pleasant.But cold rain is always miserable. Have you ever heard anyone say they enjoyed it? Are there any sports specifically done in it? Enough said, eh?







Evie, I have PTS also, but it only accounted for about 5% of my IBS symptoms - the rest was from food sensitivities. I can recommend some books if you'd like to e-mail me.


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## Guest (Oct 21, 2002)

Thanx Julia... I appreciate your offer.I've done the allergy detective thing multiple times in my life. I once even went on a "rotary diet". The only thing that really helps me at this point in my life is getting my body chemistry right. I have no choice but to take medication. I do avoid things (foods) that I know bother me... but other than that.... how I feel is so closely related to what I eat that I eat what I need to eat when I need to eat it.For me, the IBS is more driven by anxiety, depression and an autoimmune disorder that conventional allergy treatments cannot begin to touch.Thank you for your concern.Warm Regards,Evie


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## modular mary (Oct 13, 2002)

this is specifically to essencede chat:hi...i noticed that you said you have borderline personality disorder..my mother has that but its very hard for me to talk to her about it...you see, i think that a fair amount of the anxiety i had growing up was because of her...you never could tell how she was going to act..but she was consistently upsetting to be with...in a way i tried to fill her role in the family by trying to keep everyone 'sane' or at least calm and peaceful (to this day i just shut down when i'm in a major conflict)...i'm sorry to be rambling on, but i just wanted to ask you some advice on how i can try to forgive my mother so that we can have some semblance of a good relationship...i still have a lot of stored up anger/sadness/anxiety/just plain bad memories that i think are still causing me problems...thank you for anything you have to say..maryobsessive-compulsive extraordinaire!


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## Julia37 (May 9, 2001)

Evie,I meant books about PTS and other fun problems.







My brother thinks he has an anxiety disorder, but I think his anxiety is for the same reason I had - abusive/neglectful parents. I've been encouraging him to get to the root of the problem instead of just medicating it, we'll see what happens. But it sounds like your symptoms are more severe than either of ours.Good luck,Julia


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

Hi EvieThank goodness I am back in FLA...should be home tonight!You make a couple of interesting points: __________________________________________"More than likely when treating one dysfunction, other dysfunctions may also respond favorably... as was the case when I went back on Celexa and my allergies improved 90%." ___________________________________________In the realm of immunologic dysfunctions of various types (allergic and non-allergic sensitivities to foods or chemicals) this is of course particularly true. Folks sometimes do not realize that the gastroneuroimmunoendocrine system is a closed loop..."action" in one subsystem will effect the other systems and vice versa. Block immunocyte activation and mediator release is avoided and the neuroendocrine response is blunted. Blunt the neural stimulation of immunocytes and the immunocyte response is blunted. Do both effectively and all symptomology may disappear.This has been a problem "forever" due to the specific problem you make mention of: _____________________________________"I've done the allergy detective thing multiple times in my life. I once even went on a "rotary diet". The only thing that really helps me at this point in my life is getting my body chemistry right. I have no choice but to take medication. I do avoid things (foods) that I know bother me... but other than that.... how I feel is so closely related to what I eat that I eat what I need to eat when I need to eat it.For me, the IBS is more driven by anxiety, depression and an autoimmune disorder that conventional allergy treatments cannot begin to touch." ____________________________________This is a reflection of the fact that until recently most scientists did not realize, or acknowledge, that there are other mechanisms than the "conventional allergy" mechanisms at work in various symptom sets, and which exist comporbidly with those abnormal immune repsonses they COULD detect. Conventional allergy dietary therapy and conventional allergy tests are/were unable to detect the dietary components which provide the stimulus for these reactions, which remained hidden from view or in vitro detetction, and which are difficult if not impossible to isolate with rotation diets alone as well.If we have no technology to isolate the provocateur of the reaction,and the reaction is dose dependent and delayed onset (unlike allergy which is rapid onset and not dose dependent) one may never find the culprits.It sort of like hunting in the dark with a fork...it does not matter how diligenty the physician pokes around with the fork in a gymnasium. Until someone turns on the lights the probability of sinking the fork into the right thing is very low. So people have been left with no alternatives but to medicate and to receive psychological treatments in effort to blunt the effects of those elements of tyhe entire system.Fortunately in the last several years the elusive cell mediated reactions can now be reliably identified and protocols very specific to the characteristics of cellular reactions developed, so outcomes can be improved.Hey, Wisconsin?







"30 below and six feet of snow"...AND you sign off Warmly? LOL All things are relative I guess...Better you than me....I would look like Jack Nicholson at the end of The Shining!On ze road again...







MNL


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## Guest (Oct 24, 2002)

Gosh, ya know what? I promise tomorrow evening I'll start with this thread. My meds are knocking me out and I have to hit the sheets.I did want to reply about the BPD(Dyslimbia). It is a maddening disorder to live with for both the victim and the family/friends. Tomorrow I will post some URL's here for you. Try researching Borderline personality disorder and you'll come across some valuable sites.Hey Mike... I'll back to you soon as well... for now..... you know what they say... cold feet, warm heart.Nitey nite....zzzzzzzzzzz............Evieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee (whoa...bouncing off the walls now.... I'll see if I can find my snowblower now and make it to my bedroom)


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## Guest (Oct 25, 2002)

Modular MaryThis post contains what I will refer to as "triggers"... it may not even be an appropriate post for this thread, however this is where the question was posed. Just know that Jeff may move it to the CBT/Hypno forum.)Cut & paste these into your browser and check them out for info on Borderline Personality Disorder (Dyslimbia):well:www.palace.net/~llama/psych/bpd.htmlwww.palace.net/~llama/psych/bpd.htmlpsychcentral.com/disorders/sx10t.htmwww.borderlineresearch.org/www.mental-health-today.com/membpd/www.bpdresources.com/www.mentalhelp.net/poc/vi...oc&id=1020tara4bpd.org/There is also a book entitled "Lost In The Mirror" and another one entitled "I Hate You Don't Leave Me". I haven't read the former, but members of the BPD Board of which I am a member recommend it. I HAVE read the latter and not everyone who has BPD has it to the extreme degree described in the book... including myself.Treatment is dependent on which other behavioral health issues are also present. For me, treament involves taking medication, cognitive behavioral therapy, deep hypnotherapy, biofeedback therapy and modern dance as well as gospel choir along with my work as a medical information systems computer training specialist. I also have a very devoted husband who understands those "potato & onion" days (there's a story behind that).It is important to understand that because of the brain neurotransmitter imbalances, people with Borderline Personality Disorder (Dyslimbia) are often not able to help how they act. Our emotional systems have a short-circuit. We feel things more deeply than "normal" people. We fall harder and it takes us longer to get back up. Most of us have a background that includes abuse and never really learned what it was to be loved. Many of us were never parented..... myself included. So we developed coping skills that stop the hurt...... even if not desireable. These "coping skills" are usually self-destructive.... For example: I don't do hurt.... I immediately translate it into anger and I lash out even at those I love. Often we are alcoholics or drug users (I am not either). Impulsiveness is another significant hallmark of BPD. Some of us are promiscuous or we gamble, others engage in physically cutting or otherwise hurting themselves (I do not do this either), a significant percentage end up committing suicide. For us, life can sometimes be so painful that death looks like a way to get away from all the hurt.It is a very scarey and misunderstood disorder.Hope this helps. Evie


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## Guest (Oct 25, 2002)

Oh.... well DUH, Julia........sorry I misunderstood.... yes... I also have PTSD since childhood. I would appreciate any reading you might be able to recommend for that.Thank you.... Evie


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## Guest (Oct 25, 2002)

Mike.... I am afraid I may have to retract something that I told you. While it is true that when I first went back on the Celexa that my allergies did improve by about 90%.... it just dawned on me that during that time frame I was also severely depressed and was hardly eating at all. Perhaps the lack of "food triggers" may have accounted for some of the improvement in my allergies? The reason I wonder is because now that I am eating a little better.... some of my allergies ARE returning. <sigh>What you wrote makes perfect sense, Mike. And I probably really should address the food "allergy" thing more closely.... I'm just so overwhelmed these days and sometimes I find comfort in certain foods. I know what the worst triggers are so I avoid them like the plague. But no doubt there are some insidious "allergies" at play.What can you say to help an overwhelmed snowbunny?and don't say feed me carrots....  the iodine in them often makes my lips swell if there is even the slightest crack in them.Well... I suppose lounging around in all that balmy weather is a tough job for you.... but someone has to do it







....wishing you snowflakes on your whiskers.... Love, Evie


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## Julia37 (May 9, 2001)

Evie,I know how you feel about comfort food. I used to do it, and I learned it from my mother. She's still in denial after all these years (sigh).If your allergy symptoms are more bearable than your emotional symptoms, continuing with the comfort food makes perfect sense. I didn't know food was causing my physical symptoms until about 2 years ago, when my doctor suggested I try giving up dairy for 2 weeks. I didn't think I could do it - I was always eating ice cream, cheese and pizza - but when 50% of my severe symptoms went away, I was motivated to continue avoiding it. Then I figured out fructose sensitivity was causing my severe burning pains, and that I had to give up sugar and fruit - but it was worth it to avoid that awful pain!The key for me has been finding substitutes. I use rice milk in recipes or on cereal, and if I get a sugar craving I sprinkle equal on something. I use nut butters instead of jam, and celery instead of fruit. It's pretty good with cashew butter.







I make things with unsweetened chocolate and no sugar, and that's better than you would think. When you feel up to it you could try that approach if you know what foods you're sensitive to. If not, you might want to take the LEAP test first.Here are a couple of books that have been a big help:"Toxic Parents" by Dr. Susan Forward - it's not specifically about PTS, but it's been a great help to me in dealing with my abusive parents issues."I Can't Get Over It: A Handbook for Trauma Survivors" by Aphrodite MatsakisI've also gotten a lot of help from books by Sonia Choquette. They have mental exercises and meditations that help keep me calm and stay positive. The 2 of hers I've read are "The Psychic Pathway" and "Your Heart's Desire".Good luck! Julia


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## Mike NoLomotil (Jun 6, 2000)

Eeeeeevieeee..... ______________________________________"it just dawned on me that during that time frame I was also severely depressed and was hardly eating at all. Perhaps the lack of "food triggers" may have accounted for some of the improvement in my allergies?" _______________________________________This is possible, as is the possibility that in your normal diet you were suffering to some degree from food cross-reactions, which are closely linked to the allergy as opposed to non-allergic food sensitivies or intolerances. Depending upon what "inhalants" (plant pollens) you are actually allergic to, there are specific foods to which you will react to as the foodstuff is, basically, in the same "family" as the primary allergen. There are way more ways we can "experience symptoms" from something in the diet than I ever imagined&#8230;.and as an RRT I did get a lot of training in allergy per se since I had to care for people with such dramatic allergic reactions as anaphylaxis and status asthmaticus. It took almost 30 years to overcome my own scotomas so it is not surprising that so many in medicine have the same problem. It is not a subject (NON allergenic food reactions) which is much studied by the masses of modern medicine mongers. _________________________________"I'm just so overwhelmed these days and sometimes I find comfort in certain foods. I know what the worst triggers are so I avoid them like the plague. But no doubt there are some insidious "allergies" at play." _____________________________This is actually one of the most common conundrums faced by people with non-allergic food sensitivies which remain undiagnosed. They may have a primary problem or problems which can lead to either learned unhappness or physiologic unhappiness (the types of neurochemical imbalances which can lead to pathologic psychologic disorders). Through the course of eating to live, their body "discovers" theat there are certain foods which make them feel better. This can be from foods which result in endorphin release, serotonin release, or which contain (exogenous)-orphins, or "exorphins" which can act upon the same receptors themselves. They then slowly begin habitually ingesting these foods more and more regularly whereupon not only is the chemical need for the food potentiated, but a behavioral pattern is established which becomes an ingrained coping mechanism. Further, because there is a biochemical basis for it it becomes self-potentiating&#8230;.like a drug addict&#8230;the more you take the more you need to take to keep getting the same response. One of the consequences which goes along with this is less and less tolerance for the food, or if it is a combinant food (cookies cakes pies etc) less and less tolerance for certain elements of that combinant food&#8230;we eat it them to get the "relaxation response" and we consume so much wheat we become wheat sensitive and don't know it (for on example).At the same time some people end up consuming these calorie-dense foods for comfort and end up gaining weight as they consume more calories than they lose, but cannot diet for long as they are addicted to the physiologic and psychologic effects of the comfort food&#8230;.food addiction.Of Course this has been a real boon to the weight loss industry over the years as these addicted, hypersensitive yet comforting foods doom such people to to a life of being simply par of the weight control industries continuity-of-revenue stream. The same goes for the pharmacotherapy that many often have to resort to so as to maintain some semblance of balance in their lives and remain functional.This is why each individual therapy for such people can break part of the cycle (cognitive behavioral therapy, food-intolerance and allergy-based dietary therapy, and even hypnosis and/or "relaxtion-response" programs such as those contrived by Dr. Benson of the Mind-Body Institute). And if you can put-together a combination of diet and anxity management which is tailored to the specific patient you can help break the cycle.But as you know yourself the hardest part is the behavioral change&#8230;and it can be very uncomfortable for some time due specifically to the exact types of neurobiologic effects that you refer to as suffering yourself. This is often why pharmacotherapy is some people best answer as it is the only thing they can "manage"&#8230;the direct-route is just to painfully direct. So I understand the maelstrom you may sometimes feel you are engulfed in. __________________________"What can you say to help an overwhelmed snowbunny?" ________________________Besides what I already said above, which is intended to convey to you that I do have some understanding and thus empathy for your feelings and realities, the most important thing I have learned over the years of working with sick people (myself among them) is that it seems that life-cycles tend to run in 60-90 day units punctuated by states of change. That is, ever couple of months something changes in each persons life which may alter their perspective, their pradigm, their situation, so that something they couldnot have done before is now possible or even compelling. Or vice versa&#8230;something that they committed to previously suddenly becomes a burden that is to mch to bear and they fall back on old behaviors attitudes or thinking.So while I have no crystal ball, I would say that you should take heart in the fact that the odds are in your favor that whatever situation you find yourself in at this very moment, which you feel unempowered to do anything about, can and probably will experience some change in the not so distant future which can alter how you are or feel so that you may be able to "change the picture" as the old Lou Tice Seminars used to teach (maybe they still do I don't know if that whole affirmation-thing is still pop'&#8230;??.). Almost everyone I have met who feels at one time out of control of things and unable to do what they must to regain control, as the mountain is just too big to climb, at some point experiences a change and either the mountain is then perceived as something they must and will climb..or it just seems to shrink to a molehill.So take your meds and just remember&#8230;hey it's only the world, not eternity, you know? So bounce your feelings around in a place like this where many people exist who have shared your expriences, and you can gain some strength and solace from the knowledge that you are not alone, and even facless starngers care enough to litsen and interract with you.







HAHA! I will have you know I escaped before any snow flew!!!MNL


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## Guest (Oct 26, 2002)

Thank you, Julia, for all the good info. Sounds like you've got things managed pretty well for you.Regarding Nutrasweet, or an artifical sweeteners, I am unable to ingest them. In fact, for someone who is diagnosed with the autoimmune syndrome that I have, it is recommended that I always eat meals that contain both protein and concentrated carbohydrate. If I don't.... I tend to have vaso vagal episodes. If I am having a blood sugar fallout...... if I eat protein.... I will continue to have the blood sugar fallout... I have to have something with sugar in it. This makes no sense..... but it exists.I've been using rice milk for everything for many years and it's a pretty good substitute.Nut butters nauseate me..... sorry. I cannot tolerate fat in my diet (I'm one of those people who if I go to a restaurant and I can't get my shrimp broiled.... I sit there and pick off the batter.)Several years ago I did the food intolerance detective thing. No matter what I did, my problems persisted.I look at it this way.... maybe this is the best that I can be?Anyway... sure do appreciate your taking time here to respond to me and I will check on those books you mentioned.Hugs, Evie


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## Guest (Oct 26, 2002)

Hi Mike,I know about the cross-reaction thing.... my ragweed allergy precludes my being able to ingest chamomile or eat bananas.Everything you say makes sense. Part of the reason I feel so overwhelmed is that I absolutely do not know where to even begin with all that is wrong with me. There is so much.... that I often do better just forgetting about it all and go dancing.I do know that I have trouble with the nightshade foods such as potatoes, tomatoes, peppers... etc. but every once in a while, the craving for a baked potato is so strong that I give in... and put a bit of sour cream on the top.I may also have wheat intolerance. I seem to tolerate rice very well... and some fruits & vegies.I love pasta even though there is wheat in it.I love bread even though there is yeast in it. In fact I make my own on a regular basis.Cheese is a comfort food for me.Apologies to all the vegans here, but animal protein helps me to feel better and there is a scientific reason why that is....and has to do with serotonin levels in the brain. I also went vegan for 2 years about 4-5 years ago... and it didn't do anything really except give me even more gas than what I already had. I did lose a bit of weight that way, however.As far as food addiction, I am certain I am addicted to chocolate, and tea....and sometimes even a bit of coffee... although I can't take in too much at a time.Pizza is a food group all by itself in my opinion......







I even crave beer occasionally.I still have not gained back the weight that I lost during a recent bout of depression. In fact, I've lost a few more pounds. Once I get to feeling a little better... I'll come back and pester you s'more.Escaped in time... did ya? Tell me you're not Irish.Evie


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