# Probiotics Causing Constipation?



## Blastocuntis (Jan 23, 2015)

Hey guys,

I'm interested to know if other people have experienced what I am currently going through.

At the beginning of last week I started taking 'Lactoferrin', and by the end of the week I felt great. On Saturday evening I had SIX bowel movements, and had so much energy I couldn't sleep until 3am Sunday morning.

I realised that this is probably because the Lactoferrin was doing it's job as a 'Biofilm Disruptor', fighting the parasites that cause my IBS, so I decided to add probiotics to the party. I've been taking Sacchromyces Boulardi and a Lactobacillus/Bifido combo for a few days, and almost as soon as I started taking it I ended up with constipation.

I've had about two BMs in the last five days, and I'm just about to do an enema.

I hate feeling like this, I feel miserable, just want to hide away from the world, and to make matters worse, I saw my ex girlfriend this afternoon, she looks at me like I'm a pathetic excuse for a human being, all because of my health problems.


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## annie7 (Aug 16, 2002)

oh yes--chronic constipation is miserable, isn't it. so sorry for what you've been going through.

(and just want to say it sounds like it's a good thing your ex is an ex because she sounds very unsupportive and and un-empathetic...and not at all compassionate..and just plain cold. and i could say a few more things, too lol....we can't help it that we have health problems--no one wants to be like this and we're all trying manage things--to find relief. so sorry you had to deal with someone like like that...you deserve better!)

i haven't tried Sacchromyces Boulardi and i haven't read a lot about it but i can remember from what i have read says it can be helpful for people with diarrhea. no mention of it helping with C...

and yes, some of the probiotics i have tried have definitely made my constipation worse. there do seem to be types of probiotics that work a lot better for D types and are not so good for those of us with C.

i do hope the enema helps and that you can find some relief. hope it gets better for you. take care...


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## annie7 (Aug 16, 2002)

deleting duplicate post (what happened??)


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## annie7 (Aug 16, 2002)

deleting duplicate post


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## annie7 (Aug 16, 2002)

deleting yet another duplicate post


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## Blastocuntis (Jan 23, 2015)

Hey, thanks for the reply Annie.

Just done two coffee enemas, back to back, feel a bit better now.

A new supplement arrived in the post today, 'Klaire Labs Interfase Plus', just popped four of them, along with two Lactoferrin, then read the Amazon reviews for Interfase, people talking about extreme 'die-off' reactions after taking just a small amount, I could be in for an interesting night!

I'm going to ditch the Sacchromyces Boulardi, I think you're right about the diarrhea thing, might keep going with the other, or maybe just ditch them both. The one that made me feel really bad was actually the most expensive probiotic on the market, 'Symprove', I bought twelve weeks worth, falling for the sales pitch, it really hasn't helped me at all, and it's full of 'sucralose', which can't be good for anyone's gut!


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## annie7 (Aug 16, 2002)

glad you're feeling better. i've heard that coffee enemas work well.

i've had some bad herx reactions (the die-off thing) myself from taking certain probiotics. hopefully that won't happen to you..

i've tried a lot of probiotics for C and they either did nothing or made it worse.

lately i've been drinklng kefir. i'd read this article about kefir and constipation on the IBS Newsfeed board. it is about a recent study done on the effects of kefir on constipation. the study showed drinking kefir has a positive effect on constipation and that kefir accelerated colonic transit. the study participants drank 500 ml of kefir a day ( a little over 16 oz)

*Effects of a kefir supplement on symptoms, colonic transit, and bowel satisfaction score in patients with chronic constipation: A pilot study.*

Turk J Gastroenterol. 2014 Dec;25(6):650-6

.

http://www.ibsgroup.org/forums/topic/209409-pubmed-effects-of-a-kefir-supplement-on-symptoms-colonic-transit-and-bowel-satisfaction-score-in-patients-with-chronic-constipation-a-pilot-study/

at this point, i can't say kefir has helped me a whole lot but perhaps a little bit though. it certainly hasn't hurt. it's 99% lactose free. and it's a healthy drink. (for me at least) like they say YMMV...


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## annie7 (Aug 16, 2002)

and another good thing about kefir is that it's fermented.

some people on here have posted that eating fermented foods like sauerkraut and kimchi have helped with their constipation. not the supermarket type sauerkraut but more natural kind you find in health food stores (or make your own)


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## Blastocuntis (Jan 23, 2015)

I was drinking kefir for a while, even had a go at making my own with coconut milk, and was also eating lots of sauerkraut, but I then became convinced I had SIBO, so stopped, thinking it was making me worse. I was using Symprove at the same time though, so that may have added to my issues.

The best I've been in recent times was when I ditched probiotics and fermented foods totally, just using antimicrobials. I tested negative for SIBO, so I think I still have Blastocystis Hominis, something I thought I'd got rid of with antibiotics last year, I never retested, stupidly! When I was tested initially, my levels of beneficial bacteria were pretty good, so maybe when I take probiotics it just overcrowds my gut.

Sent off a three day stool sample test more than two weeks ago, currently waiting for results from my nutritionist, but she isn't replying to my emails!


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## annie7 (Aug 16, 2002)

you've really been working hard at trying lots of different things. wish something had worked for you. it's so tricky isn't it--experimenting and trying to find something --or a combination of things--that works.

that's good your tests showed that your levels of beneficial bacteria are good.

hope you get an answer from your nutritionist soon! and I hope you can get rid of blastocytis hominis for good.


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## jaumeb (Sep 1, 2014)

Hey Blastocuntis, I also tested positive for blasto but never did anything about it. So if I understand it correctly, "lactoferrin" is working for you, right? I never tried that one. I've never tried "Interfase" either.

I remember I tested high for lactoferrin back in 2009.

I am taking the S. Boulardii. I have been taking it for some eight weeks and, although it helps, I am still in pain and with loose stools. I read a research article abot S. Boulardii and blasto.

I forgot to mention that one has to be careful with S. Boulardii supplements as some contain additives that can be problematic. It is also important to start with microdoses and then slowly build up.

I'll keep reading your updates as it seems that you are on something.

Edit: I edit to add that S. Boulardii is non-colonizing and disappears some eight days after you stop taking it.


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## Elyse J Meyer (Feb 1, 2015)

This is where it gets tricky for everyone because this incredibly baffling disease time and again shows that what works for one person, doesn't work for another. For me, I noticed that when I was on Probiotics, I had an incredible increase in flatulence after eating. I also experienced A LOT more constipation with the Probiotics. My Gastro doc swore by Align and said to eat probiotic yogurt too. First of all, Align is very expensive. I stuck with it for about 5 months, noticing *especially* the excessive flatulence and also the increased constipation. Then, just because of $$, I tried Jamieson probiotics because they were more affordable. Had even more flatulence with Jamieson! I personally have given up on probiotics and I don't have as much flatulence or constipation, but I don't want that to be considered any type of advice to you since, as I said, what works for one person doesn't work for another. I just wanted to offer my own personal experience with those two types of probiotics.

I find it so disheartening that we're all basically on our own in terms of managing this disease. It truly is something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.

Good luck to you and all others who are struggling with this. It's very very difficult. Seems like there are degrees of the disease and some people are able to cope or have it to a lesser degree than others. For me personally, it's been borderline-disabling.

Take care, everyone.


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## annie7 (Aug 16, 2002)

Hi Elyse yes, it sure can be borderline disabling...

and i think you're right--we're basically on our own when it comes to managing things.

in my experience, with all my problems--i have two terrific gastro docs but there is only so much they can do for me. my C problems are very complicated. they did get me properly tested and diagnosed and have been very helpful with treatments and medications, suggestions etc but in the end---i'm just trying to be as positive and proactive as i can in reading and researching and trying different things out for myself...

good luck to you as well--and to everyone who struggles with ibs and other functional digestive problems/diseases.

oh--and about align---it made my constipation worse, too. i read other posts from people who said the same thing. seems like it works best for D types although like you say, we're all so different...


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## Blastocuntis (Jan 23, 2015)

Hey guys, thanks for the replies.

You know, if I wrote about everything I've been through, and everything I've tried, I would be here all night.

Elyse, I know exactly where you're coming from, I was very close to giving up work, I was in a real mess at one point, and no one around me understands, in fact, some even laugh and tell me it's all in my head, doctors included.

Here's a list of the symptoms I've had....

IBS

Constipation

Churning guts

Acid reflux

Foul wind

Irregular bowel movements

Green mushy stools

Anal itching

Rectal abscess

Fatigue

Low vitamin D

High TSH levels

Gluten, sugar, and caffeine sensitivity

Acne

Twitching left eye

Joint pain

Tingling in hands and feet

Tingling numbness in lower back

Nausea

Occasional feeling like I could vomit

Frequent urination

Severe flu like symptoms after colonic irrigation

Sharp pain in lower back a couple of times, accompanied by dizziness

Sharp pain on left of abdomen

Nose sores and constant sneezing, all year round

Skin always improves if I don't eat, and when I drink alcohol

Anxiety

Depression

Irritability

Confusion

Clumsiness

Poor concentration

Brain fog

Insomnia

Low sex drive

I reckon I've aged about 15 years in the last 5, I now have terrible lines around my eyes, because they are always puffy and swollen, I just want the whole ordeal to be over.

I have hit rock bottom a few times, and thoughts of suicide enter my mind, simply because I feel so alone. The worst moment was when my girlfriend lost patience with it all, those eyes that once looked at me lovingly, now look through me, now when we pass each other in the street we barely say hello, it hurts, but what girl wants to be with a guy who has to take an enema bag into the bathroom every other day?

I must have seen about five GPs, one gastro, and a doctor who practises functional medicine and prescribed the triple antibiotic treatment for Blasto. The GPs all told me 'you have IBS' or 'Chronic Fatigue', they told me to 'learn how to deal with it', and the gastro did a colonoscopy and gastroscopy, and told me 'all looks fine, goodbye'. When I went to a GP with my Genova result, showing I had Blasto, he first said he doubted it was the cause of my problems, then he questioned the validity of the test, then he offered to write to the same gastro I'd already seen, who wrote back suggesting I try a course of Metranidazole, which I opted not to take, because I read it doesn't always work, but I am tempted to try it with a biofilm disruptor. I've tried to get referred to the gastro again, but he won't see me, as my case 'is not severe enough'. Where I live the cost of seeing a specialist is paid for by our social security contributions, so they get to call the shots as to whether you'll be seen or not, unless you pay them a ridiculous amount of money.

The most helpful thing I did was ditch gluten, dairy, fruit and sugar, in fact, I've taken my carb intake down to almost zero. Fruit and fructose are massive triggers for me, whatever is causing my problem absolutely loves fruit! Before Christmas I was taking a combo of Allicin, Oregano Oil, Peppermint Oil, and Grapefruit & Berberine complex (made by a company called 'Nutri').

I would definitely advise everyone try Lactoferrin, the effects have been nothing short of breath taking, but I'm still not right. Started taking Interfase Plus last night, and Nattokinase today, all are biofilm disruptors. I've also decided to try yogurt and raw cheese a go again today, and I seem to be ok, so far, not eaten cheese for about a year before today!

The best I've felt in the last six months was when I went to a detox retreat in Thailand and fasted for a week. I left feeling like Superman, but they told me to break my fast with fruit, and it absolutely ruined me. By the end of my first week home I was massively constipated, having to strategically drop huge farts where no one could smell them. Then, when I finally decided to do an enema, it was like hard balls of green concrete, coated in blood. I ended up with terrible fatigue for weeks after that, and by 3pm each day I was longing to get home from work so I could collapse on the sofa.

The lack of energy has been a real drag, because I move around all day in my job, my new iPhone 6 is currently clocking me at around 5.5km a day, so I can't afford to be fatigued!

Before all this I was a gym fanatic, and a House DJ, I had a great life, now I spend my evenings and weekends sat alone, because my head or my guts are in a mess, or because I'm researching ways to fix it.


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## annie7 (Aug 16, 2002)

oh yes--you've really been through the mill and then some---reminds me of what sir winston churchill said: "when you're going through hell, keep going. " that's what i've been doing too. it's been a long road. but we keep going









you've been working hard, trying things, researching and it sounds like you're really on to something with lactoferrin and also interfase plus and nattokinase. you've got a great plan going and fingers crossed it works for you. thanks for passing your ideas on to us.


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## Blastocuntis (Jan 23, 2015)

No problem, thanks for the support


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## Elyse J Meyer (Feb 1, 2015)

Blastocuntis said:


> Before all this I was a gym fanatic, and a House DJ, I had a great life, now I spend my evenings and weekends sat alone, because my head or my guts are in a mess, or because I'm researching ways to fix it.


I'm *so* sorry to hear about all you're going through..that really is a lot to deal with. I so empathize with you. While my symptoms aren't as varied as yours and I won't go into all of them, all I can say is that the increase in pain and illness since it started about a year ago and the relentlessness of it for me is just so incredibly difficult to deal with. My Gastro, imo, is just terrible,,,arrogant, dismissive, never takes his eyes off the computer while he's "talking to you" and disinterested in anything I have to say because he's made his diagnosis and that's it. I have done absolutely everything he told me in terms of diet, probiotics, meds ie Dicetel (made it worse), and others...NO relief in fact I'm so much worse a year later. I had this feeling from the get-go that something besides IBS was happening and I've told him about symptoms that don't coincide with what the IBS literature says and I've had to push him to get referrals to other doctors (ie I have a horrible symptom after I eat that feels like food just sits in my stomach and I get really bloated and then this BIZARRE pain that goes up my back between my shoulder blades and heart palpitations). And many people have said it's anxiety but it isn't, trust me I know what anxiety feels like and this isn't it. I was referred to a Cardiologist and he found fluid around my heart but nothing else and said not to worry about it. I then pushed my Gastro guy to look into gastroparesis. I had the test done and it was abnormal with results being slightly abnormal (10% considered normal and I was at 15%). Gastro never called me. I found out through by GP who was cc'd on the test. She prescribed Domperidone. Still no help. When I had the colonoscopy and you have to take that God awful powerful laxative and you're at the toilet when it's really coming out powerfully, after about the 3rd time I felt something that was like a pop and there was some blood. I figured it was a hemorrhoid but soon realized that something was sticking out and it was either a prolapsed hemorrhoid or rectum ( I looked this up on the internet). So right after the colonoscopy the Gastro told me the only thing I had was internal hemorrhoids. I told him about the protrusion and he said it must be the hemorrhoid that had prolapsed and to use preparation H and Anusol suppositories. Funny thing is, I had this intuition it wasnt hemorrhoids but I kept putting the damed prep-h on for months. Flash back to about a month ago where AGAIN I had to wait months to see him because I felt that after a year and my symptoms not getting better, in fact, much worse, I wanted to know if he felt comfortable with the diagnosis of IBS. He was incredibly rude. He cut me off half way through the 10 minute appt that he gives you because "he'd heard all those symptoms before". I lost it. I basically told him off. I explained to him that I GET that he has a lot of patients but I'm entitled to my time with him and I hadn't gotten through all the symptoms yet and as his patient I felt that I needed to be heard. He reluctantly sat there and said okay go on. I asked him what's the difference between a prolapsed hemorrhoid and a rectal prolapse. He said they're basically the same thing. Believe it or not, he actually apologized to me in the end, but I don't think it was because he was sincerely remorseful, I think he was afraid I"d complain because he knew he'd been so rude.

At MY urging, he referred me to a General Surgeon. Turns out I have a rectal prolapse that will eventually require surgery. Go figure, huh? Always go with your instinct.

All of this is in addition to constant pain...a constant pain in my stomach in the area that's around my navel, pain when I eat, a different kind of pain when food is being digested and then a different pain when my stomach is empty. It's probably a good thing I have pain when my stomach's empty because if I got relief that way, I'd have wasted away by now. Stools are clearly very not normal and there's pain too when I have a BM. But this bizarre pain in my upper back is the one that is truly the most horrible, scary and uncomfortable (although the stomach stuff is hell too). I'm lucky if I get 5 hours of sleep. And this is with my taking Benzo's too.

MY personal opinion is that we all have some type of infection/dysfunction that the medical community just doesn't have the technology/solution to yet. We can't possibly have all these terrible physical symptoms, go through all these tests and have the test come back normal? It just doesnt make sense. They're coming back normal because, imo, they haven't figured out WHAT to test for in terms of pathology, infection, etc.

I'm hoping that in 50 years or so they'll solve this., I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy.

And I can relate regarding personal relationships. On the one hand, I understand healthy people not wanting to be around unhealthy people because, as they say, life is for the the living. And I've pretty much lost a sister over this. She's been unsupportive judgmental and uncaring (but honestly we never got along to begin with). But then I look at the people who have showed concern and tried to help and I focus on that and it's okay if they don't want to spend as much time with me because it's depressing and they want to help and feel frustrated. These are the things that can really test a relationship and you, and only you, can judge whether or not that person has been someone that YOU want to have in your life. I try to put myself in their shoes but sometime I see people not doing the same with me and frankly, I just won't be bothered with them anymore.

Stay strong. Let's hope they solve this soon. We're all suffering a lot. It just sucks but you are NOT alone.

Take care.


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## Elyse J Meyer (Feb 1, 2015)

annie7 said:


> Hi Elyse yes, it sure can be borderline disabling...
> 
> and i think you're right--we're basically on our own when it comes to managing things.
> 
> ...


Thanks,annie7. You're very fortunate to have docs that are helpful. I unfortunately have had the odd one who is helpful but overall unfortunately I've felt very dismissed. I try to be reasonable and understand that docs aren't miracle workers and they can't wave a magic wand and are limited...heck, they're only human too but like I said overall I've felt like I'm on my own with this.

Interesting about Align. Glad I stopped taking it and hey, it saves me $30 bucks a month too. God knows how much I've spent on supplements, meds, etc, at this point every penny counts.

Take care.


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## Blastocuntis (Jan 23, 2015)

Hey Elyse,

Sounds like a lot of gastros are cut from the same cloth! The guy I saw was exactly the same.

Back pain seems to be a normal occurrence for people with bowel problems, I know I've had my fair share, also had chest pains too.

What diet changes have you tried?


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## Elyse J Meyer (Feb 1, 2015)

Blastocuntis said:


> Hey Elyse,
> 
> Sounds like a lot of gastros are cut from the same cloth! The guy I saw was exactly the same.
> 
> ...


lactose, gluten free. I eat chicken, fish, vegetables, very few carbs. Tried FODMAP diet, no difference. You're supposed to stay away from caffeine but I have to have my morning coffee. So for over a month I did decaf coffee with no difference noticed. So now I have my cup of coffee in the morning with lactose free milk. screw it, lol. we have to have something we really enjoy and for me it's coffee. I used to love coke but haven't had it in over a year. same thing with chocolate.


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## jaumeb (Sep 1, 2014)

Blastocuntis, when I read you went almost zero carb it reminded I myself was eating only fish and meat for some time hoping that it would help with my symptoms. Then I found that adding peeled, seeded and cooked zucchini helped. Right now I am trying banana. I think the S. Boulardii is helping me to tolerate more foods. I know that your case is different and S. Boulardii didn't help.

Have you tried cooked beets or the SCD constipation protocol?


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## Blastocuntis (Jan 23, 2015)

Elyse J Meyer said:


> lactose, gluten free. I eat chicken, fish, vegetables, very few carbs. Tried FODMAP diet, no difference. You're supposed to stay away from caffeine but I have to have my morning coffee. So for over a month I did decaf coffee with no difference noticed. So now I have my cup of coffee in the morning with lactose free milk. screw it, lol. we have to have something we really enjoy and for me it's coffee. I used to love coke but haven't had it in over a year. same thing with chocolate.


I had really bad reactions to coffee for a while, gave me terrible anxiety, but I'm ok with it now, because I take it black, without sugar. I think the combination of the caffeine, sugar, and milk where causing a bit of an overload!

Sounds like you're on a similar diet to me, just meat, fish, eggs, and vegetables.


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## Blastocuntis (Jan 23, 2015)

jaumeb said:


> Blastocuntis, when I read you went almost zero carb it reminded I myself was eating only fish and meat for some time hoping that it would help with my symptoms. Then I found that adding peeled, seeded and cooked zucchini helped. Right now I am trying banana. I think the S. Boulardii is helping me to tolerate more foods. I know that your case is different and S. Boulardii didn't help.
> 
> Have you tried cooked beets or the SCD constipation protocol?


I do get carbs, in vegetables, I just stay away from starchy carbs.

Made the mistake of trying raw dairy yesterday, been very constipated today, to the point where I decided to drink half a bottle of milk of magnesia, that was a mistake! I now have diarrhea.


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## jaumeb (Sep 1, 2014)

I think that I am intolerant to egg and it causes D in my case. If you look to Dr. Hyman protocol you will see that egg is listed as one of the common offenders.

If it agrees with you, great. It is a very good food.

I was eating them so often that could never find I was intolerant them. It was only after stopping them and re-introducing them after some months that I discovered that they were a problem. The result was watery D.


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## Blastocuntis (Jan 23, 2015)

jaumeb said:


> I think that I am intolerant to egg and it causes D in my case. If you look to Dr. Hyman protocol you will see that egg is listed as one of the common offenders.
> 
> If it agrees with you, great. It is a very good food.
> 
> I was eating them so often that could never find I was intolerant them. It was only after stopping them and re-introducing them after some months that I discovered that they were a problem. The result was watery D.


Hmm, maybe I should try removing them for a while, literally just about to fry some now! 

I'd like to know what has caused my constipation this week, there's three possibles, it's either Sacchromyces Booulardi, yogurt, or cheese. I hadn't eaten cheese for about a year, and yogurt for around six months, but as the lactoferrin has really been working to take down the biofilm of whatever is causing my problem, I thought I'd put some good bacteria in to kill it off.

Sacchromyces Boulardi was the wrong approach though, I've only realised yesterday that it is best taken for IBS-D, not C! I should have been taking Bifido bacteria!

Just about to eat a brunch of salmon, roasted mediterranean vegetables, and a couple of fried eggs, oh, and I've been nibbling at some raw cheese too, I love cheese so much, missed it so badly that I may have over done it a bit.

God, my guts are in a mess today, churning away! Only had a few things to do this weekend and not managed many of them. I'm on call for work and I've spent most of my time dealing with work problems, or in the bathroom!


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## annie7 (Aug 16, 2002)

sorry about the C problems...

oh yes--many of us with chronic constipation find that cheese is very binding. i love it, too, but i avoid it (sadly)..


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## jaumeb (Sep 1, 2014)

Something I learned the hard way is to introduce changes one at a time. And wait five days before another change. This is what I am trying to do now, so I can detect which is the effect of each food, supplement, etc.


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## Blastocuntis (Jan 23, 2015)

*Update*

Received the results from my last Genova stool analysis yesterday, I have an overgrowth of Bacillus and ZERO Lactobacillus. Genova recommended I try antibiotics to clear the Bacillus, so I went along to a conventional doctor, who launched a quite scathing attack, telling me 'you need to stop being so introverted about your problems, stop going here there and everywhere for answers, and accept the diagnosis of IBS and CFS', I really felt like punching the guy, wish I had recorded the consultation, he was a complete prick about it all. I really don't understand why guys like him are in the medical profession, absolutely no compassion whatsoever!


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## annie7 (Aug 16, 2002)

oh what a terrible thing to say to a patient! that's quite shocking! that doc should not be allowed to practice medicine with an attitude like that. and no patient should ever be treated so rudely and heartlessly.

I know why he's in the medical profession--he's in it for the $$$$$$$.

so sorry..


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## Blastocuntis (Jan 23, 2015)

annie7 said:


> oh what a terrible thing to say to a patient! that's quite shocking! that doc should not be allowed to practice medicine with an attitude like that. and no patient should ever be treated so rudely and heartlessly.
> 
> I know why he's in the medical profession--he's in it for the $$$$$$$.
> 
> so sorry..


Exactly what I thought, and it's the same story with most of the doctors where I live I'm afraid (on a small island near France), they don't go out of their way to help people at all.

Luckily I have a great nutritionist!


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## annie7 (Aug 16, 2002)

oh that's really a shame, especially since you're on an island....not easy to get to go anywhere else for good medical care.....

yes it is good you have a great nutritionist....just wish you had a doctor who was a decent, dedicated, knowledgeable, proactive and caring human being. that cretin you saw is reprehensible.

do you think you'll be able to get the antibiotic you need? can your nutritionist help you at all with that?


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## jaumeb (Sep 1, 2014)

on a small island near France

I am also on an island, not that far from France: Mallorca.

If I remember correctly my tests back in 2009 showed no beneficial bacteria. Your diet has a lot to do in the gut ecosystem. If you are avoiding carbs, that would definitively change your microbiota profile. That could be the reason your results are not in the "normal ranges".


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## Blastocuntis (Jan 23, 2015)

annie7 said:


> oh that's really a shame, especially since you're on an island....not easy to get to go anywhere else for good medical care.....
> 
> yes it is good you have a great nutritionist....just wish you had a doctor who was a decent, dedicated, knowledgeable, proactive and caring human being. that cretin you saw is reprehensible.
> 
> do you think you'll be able to get the antibiotic you need? can your nutritionist help you at all with that?


I've made an appointment for a telephone consultation with a guy called Dr Econs, at 'Allergy Medical UK', I had a Skype consultation with him last year, he prescribed the antibiotics that killed the Blasto, I didn't know that until I got my result on Wednesday, so if he helped me once, he can help me again!



jaumeb said:


> on a small island near France
> 
> I am also on an island, not that far from France: Mallorca.
> 
> If I remember correctly my tests back in 2009 showed no beneficial bacteria. Your diet has a lot to do in the gut ecosystem. If you are avoiding carbs, that would definitively change your microbiota profile. That could be the reason your results are not in the "normal ranges".


My nutritionist made me realise my diet was wrong, too much meat, not enough fibre. I've upped my fibre over the last two days, eating lots of apples, vegetables, quinoa, lentils, and yogurt, and I'm pleased to report I am no longer constipated. Hopefully I can keep my bowel movements regular so I can pass the bad bacteria out. She's also given me 'Plant Tannins', which have been shown to kill Bacillus, and I'm using 'Symprove' again, alternated with 'Primal Defense' probiotic, to replenish the Lactobacillus.

Ha ha, unfortunately I'm on Guernsey, not Mallorca! Bit further north! 6 degrees celsius today.


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## annie7 (Aug 16, 2002)

good--glad you're in touch with someone who can help you.

6 degrees celsius sounds nice to me. when i got up this morning, it was twenty three degrees below zero. Mallorca sounds even better lol.


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## Blastocuntis (Jan 23, 2015)

annie7 said:


> good--glad you're in touch with someone who can help you.
> 
> 6 degrees celsius sounds nice to me. when i got up this morning, it was twenty three degrees below zero. Mallorca sounds even better lol.


Woah, I've never experienced anywhere that cold before! Off to Dubai in less than three weeks, hoping some downtime in the sun will help my health.


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## annie7 (Aug 16, 2002)

yes, cold like this is soul sucking.....Dubai sounds like heaven. all that sun is sure to improve your health. enjoy!


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## tummyrumbles (Aug 14, 2005)

23 degrees below zero? I can't even imagine what that's like. You must expend a lot of energy shivering!


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## tummyrumbles (Aug 14, 2005)

I bought some Inner Health probiotics yesterday. It's the first time I've tried meds for IBS. I wasn't aware of any effects at all. I'll finish the bottle and if they don't do anything might even try some other ones. I don't know how they'd cause constipation though, that's more likely from diet. A big factor for my IBS is over-eating I think. I think overeating causes a lot of the carbs I eat to not be digested properly and just ferment, causing gas. Gas for me is a big cause of constipation. Each type of probiotic has different bacterial strains and it could be that you need to try different types. I find it hard to believe that meds cure IBS although IBSisBS put up a very convincing argument for probiotics. I need to figure out why I get gas in the afternoons when I'm sure I completely evacuate. I notice if I don't overeat the gas is much reduced so my bacteria levels might actually be OK, it could be more a case of eating too much for my stomach to handle.


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## annie7 (Aug 16, 2002)

oh yes... and we spend a boatload of money heating the house too (propane, since we're out in the country--no natural gas lines out this way...)

I have reynauld's so it's not the best climate for me.


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## annie7 (Aug 16, 2002)

Tummyrumbles--here is a link to a good medscape article "Probiotics for the Treatment of Irritable Bowel Syndrome". you have to register with medscape to read it but registration is free and worth doing--they have a terrific gastro library.

anyway, this is a very thorough article and mentions which types of probiotics work best (according to studies) with which type of bowel problem--ie pain, bloating, defecatory function etc.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/757843?src=nl_topic


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## tummyrumbles (Aug 14, 2005)

Thanks for that Annie. So many articles seem to recommend VSL #3 but you can only get in online and I'd prefer to buy from a chemist. I'd love to try this one though.

Here's some info on probiotics for IBS-C

http://www.powerofprobiotics.com/Probiotics-for-constipation.html

http://www.constipationexperts.co.uk/blog/2014/08/best-probiotics-for-constipation.html

Some strains of bacteria are reported to help constipation like bifidobacterium lactis and lactobaccilus plantarum but to further confuse things these have their own individual strains as well (have a read of the links). The probiotic that I bought yesterday only had 2 strains Lactobacillus acidophilus,

Bifidobacterium lactis whereas something like VSL #3 which has a very good reputation has all these:

450 billion live bacteria

Streptococcus thermophilus

Bifidobacteria breve

Bifidobacteria longum

Bifidobacteria infantis

Lactobacillus acidophilus

Lactobacillus plantarum

Lactobacillus paracasei

Lactobacillus delbreuckii subspecies bulgaricus

so I guess the more the merrier? I might wander down to the chemist and see if any of theirs have these strains.


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## Blastocuntis (Jan 23, 2015)

Something I've been eating has really got me moving, chopped apples, with yogurt, and ground flaxseed, really seems to be doing the business. Two BMs yesterday, and two the days before!


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## Blastocuntis (Jan 23, 2015)

I've also realised I wasn't eating enough, and when I was it was the wrong things, too much meat for starters.


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## annie7 (Aug 16, 2002)

that's great--sounds like you've found a winning combination with the apples, yogurt and flaxseeds. healthy too. we had a recent thread on here about someone having lots of success with a yogurt and flaxseed smoothie.

oh yes--too much meat can be constipating. i've found that tough meats are hard to digest. i do better with chicken and tender pork and tender or ground red meat.


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## annie7 (Aug 16, 2002)

Tummyrumbles---thanks--yes, i've researched and tried VSL#3---a bit pricey for me--didn't help but that's me--i have a lot of complicated problems. we're all different in how we react to things and probiotics are no exception. very much a YMMV sort of thing, i think. it's good to experiment.


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## jaumeb (Sep 1, 2014)

Blastocuntis said:


> Something I've been eating has really got me moving, chopped apples, with yogurt, and ground flaxseed, really seems to be doing the business. Two BMs yesterday, and two the days before!


Good that you found something that works for you. I have had the D under control these last days. However, my main symptom which is pain is still there.

You finally found that some probiotics (yogurt) are good for you. I don't dare to try yogurt as I seem to react badly to dairy.


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## annie7 (Aug 16, 2002)

tummyrumbles--this study was listed in one of the footnotes on the medscape probiotic article that i posted here earlier. the study shows that VSL#3 retards colonic transit. no wonder it didn't help me lol....i've heard other people with C say the same thing.

"Colonic transit was retarded with VSL# 3 relative to placebo"

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16185307

also:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2982.2005.00695.x/pdf


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## annie7 (Aug 16, 2002)

(i knew i had this somewhere--just found it)

the instruction sheet in the VSL#3 box says it reduced bloating 39% in IBS-D patients and a showed a reduction in fecal urgency.


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## tummyrumbles (Aug 14, 2005)

Hello Annie, yes there's a lot of conflicting info generally. On one hand probiotics in general produce short chain fatty acids that heighten peristalsis. This is the same thing as FODMAPs. Remember your post on "interesting research regarding FODMAPs"? That's the same thing. FODMAPs are supposed to get things moving because fermentation feeds the bacteria that digests our food, and also because the SCFAs move things along. This is what confuses everyone. Do we eat FODMAPs and take probiotics or not? Are we better off with SCFAs and more gas and in theory better peristalsis or does the increased gas somehow cause constipation? I believe in my case gas causes constipation but I think this is more food based than bacteria based. So if I over-eat for instance there is a lot of food that's just not digested because it's too much for my stomach to handle. So this excess food travels down feeding bacteria and causing gas. But if I don't overeat then whether or not I have an over supply of bacteria might not make much of a difference. There's no excess food (or the wrong kind of food) to feed them. Maybe if I take probiotics the extra bacteria just die off as there's no excess food to ferment. You really do need to experiment with food but keeping a diary is crucial. Sometimes I have weird good days that don't make sense at the time. But maybe a year later I'll go back and think - oh yes, that makes sense. I can see now why I didn't have any gas that day (not over-eating. The actual food didn't make much difference).

Anyway back on to VSL # 3. There's a lot of studies that say VSL #3 did help with constipation so it must depend on other factors as well. These are all subjective studies too. Who's to say exactly what these people ate and how this affected evacuation. It could be too that because these people were in a study they were more sensible with their diet and maybe ate low starch as well. I don't take studies all that seriously because there's too many variables.

There are particular strains that are supposed to help with constipation - bifido lactis and lactobacilolus plantarum and VLS # 3 has one of these but again this is based on studies and who knows what really helped with constipation?

Oh well. You tried VSL #3 and it didn't make a difference but I know you have medical and pelvic floor issues so it's more than IBS for you. I won't try it as I don't like buying online. I'll finish the bottle of probiotics I bought but so far there's no difference at all. I think for me over-eating is the biggest factor and my diary backs this up as well. So it's not just gas that causes constipation but determining what kind of gas it is. Probiotics might cause gas because species fight one another(?). This is supposed to be temporary. If you persevere the probiotics are supposed to help assuming you have a deficiency. We might not have a deficiency though and the problem could be the food itself. Undigested food travels slowly, and causes fermentation as it travels. This is why I think go low FODMAP, low starch and keep portions to a small size. I suspect I might have a GERD component as well and have to be careful not to eat dinner late as well. If you have a quicker evacuation and less gas then this is the answer. A bit of a long post this one but I'm excited to think I have finally found the main reason for my IBS.


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## annie7 (Aug 16, 2002)

that's great you found the main reason for your ibs


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## Blastocuntis (Jan 23, 2015)

Hey folks, got an update for you....

Still doing well on the high fibre diet, averaging two or three BM's a day!

Also....a probiotic that my nutritionist ordered for me has really been helping my energy levels, I noticed a difference within 24 hours of taking it. It's called 'Primal Defense', really great product that I will no doubt continue to use for a long time.

On Wednesday I had a telephone consultation with Dr Econs at 'Allergy Medical UK', who was great! Second time I've spoken to him about my issues, the last time was about eight months ago when he prescribed the antibiotics that got rid of the Bastocystis. He was very pleased about that, but when he saw how high my Bacillus level was he decided he would prescribe a two week course of 'Rifaximin', which I've had to order specially, and will have by Tuesday. Hopefully once that is done it will just be a case of continuing with probiotics and fermented foods until my levels of good bacteria return to what they should be.

I've seen Rifaximin mentioned by others on this site, and I've asked my local doctors to prescribe it many times, but they refused, and the gastro I saw hadn't even heard of it before!! When I relayed this information to the pharmacy that ordered it for me the lady behind the counter gave a knowing chuckle, like she'd heard that before from other people. Such a shame that I had to do most of the work to fix my problem myself, most doctors were content to let me continue living a half life, house bound at times due to CFS. I'd love it if there was some way of claiming damages for the way I've been treated.


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## annie7 (Aug 16, 2002)

thanks for the update. that's great that you're doing well with the high fiber diet and that primal defense has improved your energy levels. and also great news that your consult with Dr Econs was so productive and that he's starting you on rifaximin.

sounds like you're really making progress--and yes,it's all due to your own hard work and research and being proactive. yes, ideally patients get help and support from their docs but unfortunately sometimes this is not the case. your story shows how important it is for us to never give up and for us to do our own research, be positive and proactive and keep looking for a doc that will help us. good job!


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## Blastocuntis (Jan 23, 2015)

annie7 said:


> thanks for the update. that's great that you're doing well with the high fiber diet and that primal defense has improved your energy levels. and also great news that your consult with Dr Econs was so productive and that he's starting you on rifaximin.
> 
> sounds like you're really making progress--and yes,it's all due to your own hard work and research and being proactive. yes, ideally patients get help and support from their docs but unfortunately sometimes this is not the case. your story shows how important it is for us to never give up and for us to do our own research, be positive and proactive and keep looking for a doc that will help us. good job!


Thanks, not many people have said that to me during my struggle


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## annie7 (Aug 16, 2002)

well, they should have!!!

I've always thought that if others--people without bowel problems--people who don't/won't understand--were in our shoes--well maybe then they'd finally come to understand just what hell we are going through, especially when we get no help or support from others--not even those in the medical profession. really---it takes a very strong person to keep enduring all this misery every day, to keep fighting and looking for answers, solutions....just the daily hanging in there takes tremendous strength...


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## Blastocuntis (Jan 23, 2015)

annie7 said:


> well, they should have!!!
> 
> I've always thought that if others--people without bowel problems--people who don't/won't understand--were in our shoes--well maybe then they'd finally come to understand just what hell we are going through, especially when we get no help or support from others--not even those in the medical profession. really---it takes a very strong person to keep enduring all this misery every day, to keep fighting and looking for answers, solutions....just the daily hanging in there takes tremendous strength...


Well I have a great determination to return to full health, no matter how long it takes, I will never give up. I also have a very good reason to want to fix my bowel, as my father had bowel cancer a few years ago, and now has a bag. I've seen the hell he's had to go through, and sat by his bedside while he was treated on an intensive care ward for 28 days, I don't want that for myself, and I believe chronic constipation increases the risk of contracting bowel cancer, it's only logical that it would.

The only thing left to conquer now is fatigue, which I'm hoping will improve when I normalise my gut bacteria.


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## annie7 (Aug 16, 2002)

oh so sorry about your father---how very sad and difficult for both of you.

yes i've seen a lot of people say normalizing their gut bacteria improved their fatigue. good luck


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## Blastocuntis (Jan 23, 2015)

annie7 said:


> oh so sorry about your father---how very sad and difficult for both of you.
> 
> yes i've seen a lot of people say normalizing their gut bacteria improved their fatigue. good luck


Thanks


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