# Is it worth continuing?



## 17846 (Aug 8, 2005)

I originally listened to the cds up to day 34 & felt so much better I stopped ( I know I am an idiot). After 4 weeks the IBS returned.I started listening from the beginning & I am now on day 50 & have had no improvement - if anything I feel worse. On the first round I had no expectations & after trying hundreds of different "remedies" & spending a fortune I didn't think it would work.But now I am aware that I have gone past the point where it helped & wonder if it is worth continuing. Has anyone else started to notice improvement after 50 days.I am so cross that I didn't continue last time, but wonder if the improvement was just a coincidence.Thanks for reading & any help gratefully received.Julia


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

Yes I would definitely continue. Everybody is different and I have read here that others have seen improvement at all different times throughout the program as well as after they completed it. So I would stick with it and try not to be discouraged... just because you saw some improvement after a certain day last time.. doesn't mean you won't see improvement tomorrow or the next day or even a month from now. It doesn't work like that.I know there is science behind all of this but I am not smart enough to explain it all. I'm sure others will pop in here and educate us both. lolI would at least continue til one of the enlightened ones pops in here to help you out.((((Julia))))BQ


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## cookies4marilyn (Jun 30, 2000)

Hi BQ - Thanks for your kind reply -Julia, don't feel one bit discouraged - in fact, feel very encouraged - I know this may seem wacky, but the fact that your symptoms have come back a bit worse, is actually a sign that the program is doing its work. I too experienced this, and it is called the "mind armies" effect - Mike explains this a bit in the FAQ thread - but essentially, for some folks, the mind puts up a bit of a fight, and tries to bring back the old IBS thoughts - what may have happened, is that one the first try, you were helped, and as you began again later after a break, this transition was brought back to the subconscious - so you are actually reacting to previous connections. Now this may be the explanation - and again, it just may be happenstance, but since Mike sees this with some of his patients, it is a definite possibility.Just keep with the schedule and persevere, no matter what your symptoms may be - if you have a spell where you are really feeling bad, Mike says you can take a few days off - this will help your mind readjust a bit, and disconnect the relapse stuff, then relisten to the same number of sessions of the days you took off, and go from there.Also, if you have very specific questions, you can go on the contact page and ask there as well.Hope this helps a bit - don't be worried that you are not going to see improvement this time around - if you did have improvement before, you can do this again - there is definite hope...Take care, and we are all here to support and care...


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## 23392 (Jan 31, 2006)

I'd also agree with the 'stay on them' advice [if only from reading Marilyn's story  --which you might find encouraging, btw], although it's a good point about taking the days off that she makes.In the general articles on hypnosis published in some of the med journals, there are indications that benefits even continue *well beyond* the end of the hypnosis programs!


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## 17846 (Aug 8, 2005)

Thanks for all your kind words - I will definately continue.Julia


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## Gutguy22 (Jul 6, 2004)

I'm using them and haven't seen much progress but I'd suggest you stick with them as well. There is research suggesting "hypnosis" can help. Most of the people here refer to this evidence often so I'd like to know: do the studies show how long it takes for improvement? It's unfortunate, in my opinion, that the same people who put forth legit evidence for the efficacy of this treatment also put forth wild explanations based on untestable hypotheses and strange hypothetical constructs.I also have a problem with this "don't worry if they haven't worked after 100 days, they often start working at some point later." Is there any evidence for this beyond the anectodal responses? I'd really like to see a study that has shown this, and I don't mean the studies that refer to it continuing to work after a person finishes, I mean a study showing it starting to work after you're finished with the program. There is a lot of variability in individual's IBS symptoms over time, so this claim that some later change is caused by the program smells fishy to me. Imagine if all therapies/treatments/products could claim this? "Oh don't worry if it hasn't worked while you were using our product, just wait around and if you get better later, guess what, it's because of our product!" Show me the evidence for this claim please, because it seems rather extraordinary.


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## Gutguy22 (Jul 6, 2004)

cookies4marilyn, I just wanted to add that I'm not questioning your motives or anything like that, and I apologize if I sounded hostile or something in my post there. I just tend to be very skeptical and we all know how IBS can make us moody at times


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## cookies4marilyn (Jun 30, 2000)

Hi Gutguy,I am not sure if I ever posted that the program works after the 100 days as a routine thing - and you are right - that WOULD be an extraordinary claim. However, we did have one BB member awhile back who did not see relief while doing the program, but then began to eliminate her IBS symptoms and related anxiety months later, and there are many others who saw relief after doing the program a second time - but if I ever mentioned this as being the norm, I apologize. It is absolutely true that IBS can wax and wane, and that symptoms could have been reduced via other means, however, for those anectotal stories, the indivual had no other relief after years of problems and treatments, and the nature of the improvement was in-line for how hypnotherapy works. For those people who have not seen any relief whatsoever, not even necessarily IBS reduction, but perhaps better relaxation, or sleep, then Mike has found that these folks will not see any IBS improvement - this is based on his clinical studies as well as his general patient outcome. Never in any studies, be they Mike's or other clinical studies, is there a 100% cure for 100% - quite simply, hypnotherapy processes do not work for everyone, whether in the beginning or later on, or even with several rounds - not everyone is helped. But the studies show that the majority of people who do this method do come away with some level of improvement.So gutguy, I apologize if I or any other poster has misrepresented a claim that hypnotherapy and/or Mike's program will work after the 100 days - there is NO study to show this, but it has happened a few times - but no formal claim is made. You are well within your rights to ask, so thank you for bringing this up,because no way would we want to mislead anyone into thinking this is a magic cure-all that spontaneously helps you out of the blue for every single person that hasn't had relief upon completion of the program.Gutguy, since I communicate with so many folks, I can't remember when you started the program - did you go through the 100 days and are you on your second or third round with them - I note that your hypno posts are of this prove it nature, and if Mike or I can personally help you a bit, please let me know - Mike is away for a bit, but in the future, I am sure he can answer any questions you might have regarding the issue of IBS symptom reduction after the 100 days - he does see this in his practice, but most folks begin to notice some difference a month into it. Again - no clinical studies for the time frame thing, except for start of program to end evaluation. You can read those studies posted on this forum, and online.I am so sorry you haven't seen much progress - have you seen any difference at all? None? Not even sleep or relaxation improvement? I was the same way - I was really slow and wanted to chuck the whole thing - a few times I did just give up and not listen - and I wanted proof too... so I can understand your concerns.So again, my apologies if any of my posts were misleading and made it sound like wild claims, and, unfortunately as it is, there are those who are not helped the least little bit through hypnotherapy - they just do not respond at all - there are those who do not respond but give up prior to finishing, or don't entertain doing another round (can't blame them, as I was almost in this category), and there are a very few who don't see improvement at first, but later on. But none of this is in any research study - just experience borne out of Mike's practice. Clinical trials are expensive but do serve to try to be impartial and controlled - and I wish that there could be more of them to test all the aspects like delayed time improvement, etc. but they just aren't out there.It may well be that you are searching for these answers because of the lack of progress you are experiencing. I feel very badly about that, but it may well be that you are in that smaller percentage that won't find relief. I hate to say this, as maybe in time you will be better, but as you know - there are no guarantees because everyone is different - some folks just don't respond to hypno, some don't really have IBS alone, and all and every factor in between. So does it come down to the fact that the "product" is faulty and makes wild claims? No. Does that imply that the person doing the hypno is "faulty" - No. Is it up to the patient if they don't succeed - sometimes! Surprised? There is a term called non-complient patient - and this is where a patient takes, say, an antibiotic for a few days, then feels better, so doesn't finish the whole dose. The patient then gets a relapse. Is that the fault of the antibiotic? Sometimes it is - bad reaction to the med, etc. and sometimes it is the fault of the patient. However, this doesn't mean that every person who fails to find help using hypnotherapy is at fault or is a failure, it just means that this method is not the one for that person for various reasons - but it doesn't take away from the fact that we have had people tell us they were helped later on down the road in that their thought processes were different, when they felt an attack coming, they could dismiss it, etc. Could their success be contributed to something other than the IBS program? Certainly it could, but the manner of improvement lines up with those seeing improvement while doing the program - but no - not clinically proven - so you are right there. So what I am seeing in your posts is a message - that the program is not working for you and you want clinical proof that is does work after the 100 days. There isn't any to my knowledge. So if you want this clinical proof to help give yourself some hope other than "testimonial" stuff, it isn't there - if you are trying to somehow discredit the program somehow as not working and not having back-up to its claims, well, that is your perogitive - if I could give you a list of clinical trials that did indeed prove this, would this give you further hope and belief in the program? Perhaps - but this further belief is not necessarily required in order to improve.As far as clinical studies on how long it takes for improvement, you can go to pub med, etc. the links are on the other thread for the hypnotherapy research, and they basically give the period of time from beginning of study to end where the final results are measured. For Mike's clinical studies, he did several, but the last one was measured at the end of the 100 days then follow-up one, two, and three years later. I will post that for you in a separate thread, so that others can refer to it:http://ibsgroup.org/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=500...03622#953103622Please feel free to email me if I can help you in anyway - I don't know if i can, but I would like to try. I had one guy call me who was suicidal with IBS - he swore at me and was just at his last wits with IBS - when I got off the phone with him, I cried, not only because of his state, but also because I am quite sensitive and easily hurt - I knew intellectually that he was hurting and his swearing wasn't really at me, but still, I am just a wimp when it comes to that kind of thing - guess I am born in the wrong generation - anyways, I talked to him later, and he profusely apologized, invited me to NY and said no one ever understood his IBS, and that he finally was getting a handle on it... I never forgot that fellow - and we talked a long time. Sometimes we need more than a clinical study or proof - sometimes we DO need anectotal stuff - and a real person to talk to.Be well and thank you for your thoughts.







mariyn###ibsgroup.org


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## cookies4marilyn (Jun 30, 2000)

I was working on my post when you posted again - thank you for your kind words - it made me feel much better! Some days are very hard on me as I have other non-IBS health concerns, and so as I said, I am a sensitive wimp!So thank you so much for your second post there... much appreciated. xx


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## 23392 (Jan 31, 2006)

I think the studies I was thinking of are from the UNC program. I am subscribed to several medical services, so I will try to find them. They definitely weren't from Mike's, no reference to his 100 days stuff, I'm pretty sure.Sorry for any confusion I created, and I will try to go dig out where I saved the articles.


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## cookies4marilyn (Jun 30, 2000)

AO, I have posted links and summaries from every single study (I think!) from the UNC as well as the UK protocol, which are similar, and other independent studies,on the research studies thread in this forum - there is no need to re post them - they do refer to lasting benefits, rather than onset of benefits once the studies were completed. I usually post the studies as they come in from my med links, though most of these are articles which discuss past studies, rather than new studies themselves. So no worries - it is already done.Other info can be gleaned from both the IFFGD newsletter and the UNC publications - you can subscribe to these as well for latest research information - they are also available on their websites - as well as Pub Med, MedLine, WebMD, etc. But you will just come up with what I have listed on this forum as a summary listing in the link above.If you have other studies than the ones listed, then please do share! Would appreciate it - but note that you can just give the links and summary, not post the whole article here in accordance with BB copyright guidelines.Thanks muchly.


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## 23392 (Jan 31, 2006)

Thanks, Marilyn! I was just going to offer to send them to whoever wanted--from what I read on Jeffrey's posting private use, not for sale, to a friend would be OK...besides, I am subscribed to a good many of the journals, and there's always the Health Sciences Library in walking distance for any I'm not! ['course it's built over limestone caverns w/ the river running through...just like the James Center with its particle accelerator...which they built *after* they knew that...:-0 One day there may be a huge crash, and after we will all glow in the dark 'round here... ]


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