# Chinese Tea helps but is it addicting



## nogo (Dec 18, 2006)

OK, I went to an accupuncturist and he gave me some Chinese Tea which I subsequently found out is dieters tea which contains Senna. The thing is, the OTC dieters tea didn't do a thing for me, but this stuff really works. Is it really bad to stay on this tea long term if I am feeling so much better with it. I don't care if it is addicting, I just don't want it to be less effective over time. If this works like this all the time, I'll invest in a case of the stuff. I got it from a acu in PA recommended by a Urologist. What do you think?


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Some of the studies on senna find it is not as dangerous or addicting as some of the older now off the market stimulatory laxatives seem to be.It will discolor the lining of the colon, but that appears to be mostly harmeless.Your constipation may get worse on its own anyway, and if the senna stops working it is probably time to move onto something else rather than upping the dose as I think people who take excessively high doses could still get into trouble (the studies that indicate safety are all at regular low doses, not doses people who abuse laxatives use).I would try to find a level of fiber or osmotic laxatives that would allow me to take as little senna as possible as they are easier on the system, but for some people they are not enough (which is why we have drugs like Zelnorm and Amitza after all).K.


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## janetmtt (May 28, 2007)

KathleenI'm feeling at the moment that senna is going to have to be my answer - fortunately for me I find if I just take one tablet of the double strength per night (which is probably two normal tablets) and eat a cereal such as Weetabix the next morning I can go quite normally. I'm finding that for some reason because I seem to be so sensitive to everything else I'm taking that perhaps I suggest this to my Dr when I have my follow up appointment with him. But is this regime safe to do - take senokot every night? I look at it in this way - surely it is better to take something and get rid of all the toxins by having a BM every day as opposed to not going for days on end - sort of a Catch 22 situation. I'd appreciate your views if you don't mind. All Bran worked so well for me but like I've said before after a few days on it I get such bad chills and muscle aches I have to stop. Bit like FruitEze - stopped that after 12 days because I was getting similar symptoms and also could be coincidental but from starting it I had a headache the whole time.Thanks.


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Is the "double strength" you take a dose that is recommended by the package?I'm assuming one pill of that is in the dose range.Most of the studies show regular use is OK. I don't think a double strength would be the kind of abuse I think may cause problems.We have had enough reports from anorexics and bulimics on the board that would take huge doses (so not double strength but 10 or 20X the normal dose) for purging that seem to have problems after the eating disorder is resolved and they stop that sort of thing.Now how much is just from years of disordered eating and how much could be from the additional things they do to themselves I do not know. They tend to do things well beyond what the normal person trying to get a little relief tends to do. They had a report this weekend of type one diabetics that have eating disorders that will stop using their insulin because they want to keep themselves too skinny and they can't do that when they take their insulin regularly. Even to the point they get nerve damage. So you can't always extrapolate back from that sort of over-use and abuse back to normal doses.The one thing is that constipation may get worse on its own so increasing the dose should it stop working is not recommended. I would also have this monitored by the doctor (depending on the doctor they may be more or less likely to give their blessing for this treatment program) just so they are aware of what is going on like you would with any OTC medication or supplement.Now going as little as 3 times a week is in the normal range and isn't considered to be toxic.K.


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## janetmtt (May 28, 2007)

Thanks Kathleen for that.Wouldn't intend to take them for purging just to have a BM because I am so so sensitive to everything else that is around. The extra strength tablet I think is just one tablet that actually contains the same amount as taking two of the regular kind so it's not too strong. Package directions say to take one I think (haven't got a packet in the house) It doesn't give you watery diarrohea and you're not running to the toilet all day so electrolite levels I feel aren't effects but gives a decent BM and I find it gentle in it's action - having said that I found it didn't work so well if I didn't have some sort of a fibre cereal for breakfast. It made me go either once or twice first thing on a morning and that was it for the day. No cramping, no pains, no gas, wind etc. for the rest of the day - lovely! Otherwise I eat healthy and exercise regularly.I intend to get some Activia yoghurt this week and give that a go as some people say this is good for IBS-C otherwise if that doesn't help I'm going to ask my GP on my follow up visit next week about senokot. Thanks for your help.


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## nogo (Dec 18, 2006)

I just wrote a reply and I think I deleted it. Apologies if this shows up twice. Thanks for your insightful opinions Kathleen. The senokot is truly a wonderful relief for me in the form of the tea. I don't know how strong the tea is, but I can have one to two cups according to the directions. I also have suspected interstitial cystitis and whereas Miralax, Amitiza and Zelnorm all aggravated that condition, the Senna tea seems to help my bladder as well as my bowel. I know it is because the pressure is off the bladder from the bowel, but the other meds didn't do that for me even when the provided results in the form of a BM. So, my question is, instead of increasing the dose of tea if the effectiveness wears off, would it be reasonable to rotate between the tea and MOM? I know MOM is an osmotic and I'm not sure if it is considered addicting or contraindicated for extended periods. If so, why? I would appreciate your opinion on this as well.Janet....please let us know what the doc says re the senna. Thanks in advance for your info ladies. It is a great help.


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## janetmtt (May 28, 2007)

NogoYes I'll keep you informed - will ring for appt Tuesday as it's a Bank Holiday in the UK today. But I'm getting to the point now where I'm desperate for something to work that doesn't give me other problems. I'm going to try Activia yoghurt for a week and see how I go as I won't be able to get an appt with Dr until next week. I know there's a lot of stuff out there that helps and All Bran worked wonders for me it's just I am unable to take it every day as there's something in it that doesn't agree and I believe it's magnesium, FruitEze also works but again I seemed to have a reaction to that. I'm at a point now where I dread trying anything new because of the added side effects and having to lose a day until they wear off. Like everyone else I just want my life back. Will have to resort to a senokot tonight but I'm not unduly worried because I haven't had any laxatives for over two weeks - that was down to FruitEze making me go! But then you find something to make you go but suffer other effects - so seems like I can't win.Actually when I take senokot I find the first couple of days I feel a bit rough but once I get used to it and I'm having bowel movements I just seem like a totally happier different person. My mood and everything seems to lift. Constipation just sucks!Let us know how you get on too - sharing all the info and our problems is just so helpful and I've learnt loads from reading everyone's problems and the answers.Jan


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

Osmotics are usually not considered to cause dependence because they just hold water in the stool.Usually the only concern with MOM (or other magnesium based osmotics) is that some people with reduced kidney function may not clear it as well as they should and so could get a build of magnesium.Most people don't have to worry about that, and you can titrate back the dose to under 1000 mgs per day and that is the top of the generally safe for everyone range.K.


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## nogo (Dec 18, 2006)

Thanks again Kathleen. I wonder if I could get by with alternating MOM and the tea. I have polycystic kidney disease but I don't think that is considered a problem with respect to magnesium. I truly don't know. I just know that I am totally miserable feeling like I do all the time with constipation running my life. Janet, I totally understand what you mean about when one thing works for constipation, it messes you up somewhere else. This is a miserable balancing act. The complication of the IC puts this thing in the utter misery category. I really want my life back, as we all do. Someday, there will be something for us.


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## janetmtt (May 28, 2007)

Nogo - I agree cures one thing and sets something else off. I hear some people say if I eat this or that it makes me go - unfortunately for me nothing I eat whether it's fruit, veg etc. seems to have that effect on me.But all we can do is keep trying - don't know about you but it sure gets me down - I'm sick of it as it's been going on for 6 months and I feel I've achieved one step forward sometimes then wham it's 3 steps back. All we can do is share all our info with eath other and hopefully we will get there in the end.Keep us informed as to your progress as I will do.Do you feel OK drinking this Chinese tea - no other side effects?


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

I'm not sure how polycystic kidney problems effect the function of the kidney.1000 mgs a day total magnesium is usually the upper recommended dose for daily use (if you did it every other day you might be able to get a way with a bit more as you'd even out over time.I'd suggest another osmotic like miralax where you don't have magensium issues but you say that bothers you, so I dunno if a different osmotic would be OK or not.There is also "stool softeners" which come with or without senna and you might see if that would work without the side effects that bother you.K.


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## janetmtt (May 28, 2007)

I rang for my Dr appointment today and he's away next week so first appointment is 13 September.Kathleen - I read today that if you experience muscle cramps with magnesium you should up the calcium - I don't take calcium - would a supplement with magnesium and calcium in perhaps sort out my issues with magnesium and help with the constipation at the same time. I stay away from calcium supplements because I know they are constipating but wondered if one combined with magnesium might work different?


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## nogo (Dec 18, 2006)

Janet...I just read a report on Mag citrate capsules that can be taken up to 1200 mg/day individed doses. It is recommended that it be taken with B6 to encourage the magnesium uptake for best result (for us that would be a BM), but you are supposed to increase it slowly, ie. 150 mg ever two days or so, starting at 150 mg. You can combine it with Calcium, but since the calcium is constipating, you may need to take a bit more magnesium for balance. I am going to try the mag and had ordered it from a health pharmacy. The Chinese Tea (senna) did the same thing most other 'cures' have done for me, it worked well for a few days, then tapered off. I could cry. Prior to that, I had no other side effects from the tea. I'm back on prune juice with pulp to aid the tea until my mag. cit. capsules come. It is recommended to take the capsules instead of the tablets. Hope this helps.


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## Kathleen M. (Nov 16, 1999)

When combining Mag and Calcium the standard rule is that if you balance 1 part magnesium with 2 parts calcium you should balance out the stool loosening/stool binding side effects.So if you want the magnesium to help loosen things you might try a 1:1 or so balance.Now if your diet usually has enough calcium in it you don't want to take more.With the calcium take it in small doses. Smaller doses are more easily absorbed by the body and you might want a citrate form that is more absorbed than a carbonate form.But it is hard to know what is causing your side effects.K.


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## nogo (Dec 18, 2006)

Thanks Kathleen. Again, you have provided valuable information and I appreciate your help. nogo


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## janetmtt (May 28, 2007)

Thanks - I'll certainly look at the calcium magnesium thing. My calcium intake is usually from milk in coffee, bit yoghurt and vegetables - don't eat cheese at all so I could perhaps manage a bit more.But thanks for this info - it's certainly worth looking into.


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## janetmtt (May 28, 2007)

Just an update after my GP visit this morning. Told him that everything I'd tried I was reacting to and that I'd had to resort to taking senokot only one per night. He said he was happy with this as long as I didn't abuse them and that it would be better not to rely on laxatives but it was also better in the sense to keep the bowels moving and at least have a BM. So for now that is what I'm going to do but I will keep trying only this week it has been difficult to try something new as I've had appointments and had to keep myself "well" enough to attend plus I have a dental appointment Friday (which I'm dreading) to have a tooth extracted so again didn't want to take anything new that would upset my system.He also suggested I try the omega 3 mix and sprinkle this on cereal on a morning - contains 5 lots of different seeds and he said he had 6 patients who tried this and they reported back that they now don't need to take laxatives - he also uses it himself and he's certainly fit and well!So today I've been and bought these seeds and will give them a go - but after the dental appointment Friday! Will keep you posted as to how it goes.


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## Dr Rusy Bhalla (Sep 14, 2007)

Please go to www.firstcure.net/articles


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## Dr Rusy Bhalla (Sep 14, 2007)

all medications containing senna damage the nerves of large bowel in the long run.worsening your symptoms.please see www.firstcure./net/articles for more informati


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## janetmtt (May 28, 2007)

Well I've tried a lot of things that work but have given additional side effects or problems and I know that long term use of laxatives isn't good but for me it's better to have some BM than nothing.


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