# life when you stink of ######



## moor_91

go to hospital or doc to see doctors that don't take you seriously, fight you at every turn and would prefer if you stayed on antidepressants and stopped asking for treatment. Reception staff reading your medical records on their screen, gossiping and laughing at you. Nurses laughing at you, spraying deodorant near your bed. Go on public transport, people laughing at you, insulting you. Because when you stink of ######, they have this right. People talking about you right next to you assuming that you are a retard and can't hear them. Go in a shop more than once and the staff will remember you and laugh at you. All your neighbors laugh at you. When you try to go jogging because get no exercise stuck in your room, they laugh. When no-one sit anywhere near you in lecture every time. People leaving notes on your door laughing. People joking about you on facebook tagging photos and saying ######. Children laugh at you in the street as you pass them and they smell you. Mothers check think their babies need changing around you, then they realize its you and laugh. People checking their shoes for dog mess around you. When you realize all your "friends" are shallow and fickle and desert you, laughing. Your family laugh at you and think you are a waste of space because you have failed at life. When you've had so much hate thrown at you over and over that you now start to hear echoes of this when totally alone. Wake from sleep suddenly because people are saying ###### in a dream. Constantly remembering bad stuff from the past, no progress, no future.

My life is measured in waiting lists to see doctors that don't give a $$$$$$ and don't understand the impact of what has happened to me. So I have to go travel to them, and this is horrible. This is the only time I go out anymore, and then often I want to be violent I'm not really as anxious anymore, I used to get panic attacks. Then you have to sit in the waiting room while the other people laugh and talk. Then you have to see the doc for about 1 min in which time they do nothing, then go home and wait for the next time. I used to want to help people in my life, no I would never want to do this, even if my smell went away 100%. They do not deserve it. Right now I stay in my room most of the time, either half sleeping. A day can sometimes last a long time, other times a few days go quickly together. I really can't stand when people say I there is nothing wrong with me and just to relax etc, because the x rays showed something wrong and I only went to the doctor to get vaccinations until I started stinking, now they don't $$$$$$ing do anything. I am very very angry about what has happened to me and how I am treated.

I don't need to paint this picture for people who have experienced odor for any length of time, but if anyone else reads this, I would ask

1. not to laugh at people who clearly have a medical condition and are trying to get fixed
2. realize that this could happen to you and to make the most of your life and good health
3. understand that people carry a thin social mask and are actually, very very cruel, even people you would consider to be kind etc even your family and so called friends. They will all turn on you under the right circumstances.


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## NoFuture

Man , you've perfect described my last 6 years. I wouldn't have explain it better.

People carry all a thin social mask, as you said. But the problem for me is when this people are supossed friends of yours or your own family... How to act with this people??? They´re our familiy, we shouldn´t hate them but.. how to forgive to this people and not living in a hate state, family or close friends, who are laughing at you and humilliate you all the time..


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## moor_91

well...I don't speak to family or friends anymore. Not saying this is good or bad, I'm not going to hand out advice, I have dealt with this problem very badly, it has consumed life completely now


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## jhonball

Same situation here....human himself is a selfish kind of animal. I wish I could go and live in a jungle with animals, but you know it is is difficult.....!


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## DevilOnMyBack

I feel ya bro, life sucks. I wish you all could have the family doctor I have, hes the man. There's people out there who will understand, just gotta find em. I've met some people who understand, and I try to surround myself with them. If you read about me im somewhat of a success story with this smell, but let me tell you this. I had friends before this started, lost em all but ONE. One friend who decided he'd be cool with everyone else but always keep me company and be end up being my best friend. He's stuck with me throughout my lowest point in my life, i got angry, avoided him at one point but he stayed true cause he understood. Now that everyone I know is wanting to be my friend again, I keep them at a distance. My best friend is a great dude, number 1 bro. I have my life in debt to him. If you can find that one friend im sure you'll get on a proper path, i've been down your road and its just a cycle that digs deeper and deeper every day. I still am very angry but im starting to find happiness. Things don't happen unless you make it happen. 
Good luck


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## nihilist

You are literally 100% spot on, so much that I felt the need to create an account and post my thoughts.

I'd like to add that also, due to our primordial nature, we constantly feel the need to defend our existence (and whatever left of our ego) and continue on living.
This is the strange part and explains why we (and others who are living under similarly horrific circumstances) have chose not to end it.
I think the only way to live is just to give 0 $$$$$$s about anyone's negativity, embrace the animosity, and be extremely open about it because you have nothing else to lose.
I constantly remind myself that this life is finite, and immortality is a mere illusion.
When you are in a room, stinkin up the place, you can think to yourself, no single person will come out of this place alive, and my smelly existence will also come to an end, and will not be in the history books, so just enjoy whatever is left of life.

Fortunately for me, I naturally detest most people and prefer isolation or company of a few genuine like-minded folk.
But, smelly and all, there is still great tv, pleasure of food, prostitutes, plenty of books to read, and an endless amount of things to learn or hobbies to acquire.
Also, you are not defined by your infrequent skunk-like occurrences and when you retreat away on your lonesome self engaged in something cool, you will not think about this weird stink problem that only occurs around other people.
Also the genuine people will turn up at some point, and if they don't, enjoy the other aforementioned pleasures in life.

Cheers


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## NoFuture

Usually this people are pussies. But when you're in a meeting at work with 15 other people in a closed room stinking like ###### and all of them know it's you and make funny comments. How do you look in to the eyes of someone with any dignity? And you can't avoid these situations because you have to work. Working in a job where all your colleages want you out because your problem affects them. The first 100 times I had dignity. After years of that I put my dignity into my ass.
.


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## NoFuture

The only battle to fight it's to solve this problem. Constant fighting 20 times per day when you go shopping, at work, with friends, with the family.. that brings nothing, with time you will be tired. The best way to fight is not to fight. No one can fight day per day for years without being tired. At least when you have to work and making normal things to survive. If you live with your parents who mantain you or you don't need to work because you're rich it's another story..
The only battle to fight it's to solve the health problem.


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## NoFuture

for not saying that if you cause troubles at work you will be fired. And that it's what they are waiting you to do, give them a reason to fire you.. Sometimes the things are not so easy dude. Maybe I am a pussy..


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## westr

want a fight? ill fight you!


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## NoFuture

leaky gaser´s fight club?


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## moor_91

I know what you mean wanting to fight 20 times per day... but I always stop myself because of the consequences, but god knows I want to hurt some people, and actually I want to be hurt too, but I definitely don't want to get on the wrong side of law. Those pricks are power crazed idiots. They would be worse than the people who you wanted to fight in the first place. The police really corrupt in my area. A friend of mine was taken into a cell overnight and beaten for no reason when we were kids.

it does make you tired this mindset. I grind my teeth flat and I punch walls, throw ######, break stuff occasionally but you are right there is no point upsetting yourself even when you are away from those who have been cruel to you. Their abuse continues in their absence, while they are having fun somewhere else and not giving a thought to you.

I wish I could get into the right frame of mind to live this out, or live with it indefinitely, but I don't have the confidence to "make it happen". Nihilist, who I name lone wolf







I would need a bit of cash to buy a place so I could live alone from family, but I got lots of debt from college, medical bills and now not working. I burning the last of my cash on more medical now. But It made me smile to think of you in your inner sanctum, books, peace...sounds nice.

The thing about having your life destroyed is that it makes you realize what you truly want(ed) out of life, and for me this is a good, non stressful but rewarding job, not just about making cash...and I would want to fall in love and have a family too. A nice house in the country with a few dogs to walk.


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## NoFuture

I know this is not a psicologic forum, but I need to say this anywhere.

Yesterday I was in the doctor and once again he told me that the smelling like ###### 24 hours per day each day of your life is not enough for an ill certificate for the insurance for not working. You know what else he told me?? Sometimes I have headache and I have to perform surgery and not because the headache I don't work.. He compared a $$$$$$ing headache with this...

Besides today I tried to do for forth time in the last 2 years a state exam for a work of the goverment and I had to go out of the classroom when everybody start to complain about the odor.. once again I could not do an exam that I would have pass perfectly without problems, not only that I lost too once again the 300 dollars that costs the inscription.

Life is wonderful!!


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## NoFuture

a enema? how will that help me? my odor comes from my mouth.


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## Phoenix1001

It's good to hear you're getting better Pengu, keep us updated.

@Nofuture are you sure this smell is from your mouth? If so do you have fillings or any history of dental problems? Dental health can result in a number of problems, I think it started my problem. The bacteria in your mouth can be a pest! If you swallow plaque and such I imagine that could set off bacterial overgrowth and imbalances.


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## NoFuture

Yes I am sure it comes from my mouth, but my teeth are ok. I already was in the dentist. It depends of the diet sometimes. I have noticed that if I eat beef and staff like that the odor is worst. Maybe the problem is in animal proteins .I'm thinking in being vegetarian or something like that


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## moor_91

Bobbatron808 said:


> Stomach problem odors can come outta the mouth sometimes, I'd know.
> 
> try taking Body Mint. It helps to rid of internal smells before they seep out.


you should stop giving advice like this out, you don't understand the topics from what you say


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## moor_91

I did read...I mean that medically both the statements I quoted have no founding


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## Phoenix1001

Guys if we're going to come up with a solution to this we need to be reasonable and accept other input whether you think it's scientifically accurate or not. From the sounds of things bobbatron has found some ways of dealing/curing his problem. It worked for him but it might not work for everyone. Cutting up people's theories won't help, the purpose of this forum is to add as many different ideas and opinions to help others. Some people may have candida problems other may have more of a mechanical problem. I want everyone here to find a solution! Good luck guys.


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## moor_91

neither are the specialized anal glands that enable skunks to give their odor present in humans


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## moor_91

both stomach problems (e.g. GERD, H pylori) and halitosis are common complaints. Common things occur commonly. Less commonly ....but still commonly ... 2 common things can occur together in the same patient. In fact maybe it is more common to have 2 unrelated common problems than to have one rare problem. Stomach problems is A and halitosis is B. Just because A and B occur together in one patient doesn't mean A is causing B. If you read the modern research that tries to link GI problems and bad breath, they report that both are common complaints, but having one doesn't make you more likely to have the other. Older studies that suggested positive correlation have now been called into question because of the imperfect methods used to get to those results. The esophagus is a collapsed tube, it is a barrier to gas from the stomach exiting the mouth, except at times like burping or vomiting. Halitosis "rarely if ever" comes from the stomach. 90% of bad breath cases are caused by tongue coating or gum disease (less commonly other mouth problems). The remaining 10% of bad breath cases are made up of blood borne halitosis. Only very rarely are their other causes like ENT conditions.

when you say, I have A and B, so do these other people I talked to, so A must cause B, can you see that this is very poor evidence? You need to take thousands of people, ask them if they have A and if they have B, and then you need to look at the statistics to see if A occurs more commonly with B, and the modern studies that did just this, with negative findings.

My problem with "IBS is caused by stress" is that it is oversimplification. Read Pimmentel's book on IBS. The same attitude has been taken by mainstream medicine with other conditions in the past. E.g. H pylori causes peptic ulcers, not 100% caused by stress. In a large proportion of "IBS" patients, there is abnormally high levels of bacteria in the small bowel. Not quite meeting the SIBO diagnosis, but still statistically significant elevations compared to people without IBS symptoms. Whilst enteric nervous system will respond to acute and chronic stress, this may only exacerbate symptoms caused by an organic disease (i.e. not 100% functional). How are these patients going to overgrow their bacteria...you could say it is caused by stress, but this link is getting tenuous. If anything, having socially unacceptable symptoms causes stress. If the overgrowth has a tendency to produce more methane, you get IBS-C, if more hydrogen, then IBS-D. This is why the low FODMAP diet works so well for IBS, cut the food for the bacteria, less intestinal gasses from bacterial fermentation, less methane or hydrogen to causes symptoms.

The problem is that IBS is just a umbrella term for many prodromal, misdiagnosed or currently unknown conditions. Whilst I had IBS all my life, bloating and alternating C & D. I think odor symptom started, it happened because of a problem with the internal anal sphincter (which gives the fine air/watertight control over the anal canal). Maybe chronically bloating and holding gas in classes caused stretch injury of pudendal nerves, which supply IAS, maybe just too much straining with C, who knows. I probably had anismus all my life too, in fact I often remember C where I could not evacuate fully. But because the anal canal was air/water tight, there was no odor. With IAS weakness comes mucous discharge and odor. This is one example of a physical cause to odor, rather than anxiety. I personally don't think I give off odor like a skunk when anxious. I can stink at any time, including when chilled at home, not under any stress at all. I only get stressed outside when ppl are saying things (or I think they are saying things)

If there is blood borne body odor, then acute anxiety might cause worsening odor by sympathetic response (fight/flight). You breath harder, and sweat more. If there are odor causing chemicals in the blood then this will cause increased odor with anxiety. My belief is that blood borne body odor is rarer than odor coming from the anus, just like blood borne halitosis is rarer (10%) than halitosis which has a cause in the mouth (90%).


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## Intothewild

If your suffering from fbo from your anus then i would suggest getting a proctography done. Thats the next step for me without question. I believe im either suffering from an internal intessuseption or a mucosal prolapse. Either way it all started when i pushed too hard when i was constipated around 5 years ago.I specifically remember there being blood all over my anus and the toilet seat. Symptoms then became incomplete evacuation, wet anus, smell worst either right after bowel movement or when getting the wet anus, hemmorhoids and weird pushed out feeling especially after going to the toilet. Im pretty sure if i can get the proctography done then that will show the diagnosis then surgery would hopefully be the next thing to happen. I developed IBS because of the stress of this although my IBS was very short lived and only lasted a few months. I dont suffer from halitosis, nor candida of that im sure. I also smell horrible after an enema which in my view is another pointer towards having one of these conditions. If you have the same type of symptoms as me then go to your doctor and explain the symptoms in detail, ask for either a Proctoscopy or a Proctography and make sure to write everything down so that you have evidence and things and im sure your doctor will take you seriously. Most doctors ignore people who say "i smell what can you do about it?" because they dont have a clue what to do but if you go to them with evidence and what you want done to push ahead then hopefully you should be taken seriously.


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## 1fboguy

Bobbatron808, I understand how you feel when you say everyone knows about your health issue. I feel the same every day. I remind myself that there are so many other places to live once this is all done. Hawaii may be "dead" to you but you still have the rest of the world. I am sure there is at least one other place you could immigrate to?

I want to add an anecdote about living with FBO. I'd like to share a story from when I was on the bus some weeks ago. There was a grown man, probably 45 years old sitting in the seat infront of me. He was fidgiting the whole ride. After a few minutes, he started looking out the window a lot. But he was looking out the window and back, sort of toward me. I could see the whites of his eyes. Then a few minutes later he must have built the confidence to take a quick glance at me, I could feel his eyes looking at me but I was trying to act calm and I just looked out the window. Knowing that he looked at me made my body go into overdrive, my heart was pounding and I had to control my breathing carefully. But physically I was calmly gazing out the window. Now he had the confidence to take a glance back at me quite a few times. Then eventually he completely turned his head and stared at me. He stared at me until I couldn't ignore it, and I looked back at him. This a**hole didn't even look away once I caught him. He kept staring for another few seconds. It is so mortifying, and aggrivating, every part of my body wanted tear the skin off his body. I have many other stories like this too.


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## moor_91

sorry to go OCD on your post, but this was v interesting



Intothewild said:


> If your suffering from fbo from your anus then i would suggest getting a proctography done.





> I believe im either suffering from an internal intessuseption or a mucosal prolapse.


I thought this too, but the proctography didn't show it apparently. I would have liked to see the images, I am not confident of their ability to diagnose these. Maybe many of us should be seeing people who specialize in obstructed defecation rather than fecal incontinence or just colorectal surgery generally. Particularly after reading this site, which mentions that excessive internal rectal valves and "s shaped" sigmoid (isn't this what the word sigmoid means?) can be just as much as a barrier to defecation. http://www.obstructed-defaecation.com/Classification%20of%20IRI.html



> Either way it all started when i pushed too hard when i was constipated around 5 years ago.


chronic and excessive straining causes damage aparently. Never strain seems to be the advice, even if you need to use a water enema. Don't worry about "laxative abuse", this may only occur with stimulant laxatives, the muscles get lazy, but a water enema just simulates the normal defecation mechanism. The problem is leaking after the



> I specifically remember there being blood all over my anus and the toilet seat.


sounds like hemorrhoid?



> weird pushed out feeling especially after going to the toilet.


could be hemorrhoid. Hopefully there is no underlying weakness of IAS, it is just being prevented from normal closure by the space occupying mass of the hemorrhoid.



> I also smell horrible after an enema which in my view is another pointer towards having one of these conditions.


why do enemas make the odor worse? they clear out the stool, but because of obstructed defecation/incomplete evac that required the enema in the first place, they is incomplete evac of the enema fluid itself? This fluid picks up the odor from being inside the colon, mixes with mucus and stool residues etc. If there is IAS weakness, then you cannot hold fluid very well, and it then leaks out after the bowel movement. I think it might even leak out more easily if you have anismus, because with anismus, the person tightens the pelvic floor while straining, then when things relax after the defecation attempt is finished, the seal actually gets weaker (or returns to normal to think of it that way)



> ask for either a Proctoscopy or a Proctography


I would say have both done (if indicated). The scope will detect lesions, but because the scope inflates the rectum and sigmoid with air, so the walls can be seen on the camera better, defects might flatten out and be invisible. The proctography shows the muscles and rectal reservoir during normal function, it will show any abnormal infolding better.


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## moor_91

I suppose the logical answer is that the odor is delusional.

Anal fissure and anal problems are irrelevant to odor unless they allow transit of normal odorous substance, or they produce odor themselves (e.g. they get infected and give out foul smelling pus). Also, I think that when there is something like a fissure, this is usually detected and treated, and the odor goes away. Go on a fecal incontinence forum, these people will have odor complaints. The reason you/we are so bemused by the odor is because there is no obvious incontinence of solid and liquid stool, but the seal may still be compromised.

Also you need to look at the nature of the gut microbiota, which is very variable between people. Different bacteria, different levels of odor produced from stool/gas.

I think the mindset of the person is also important. Some make a huge deal out of this and others just get on with life. Mindset might even be more important than severity of symptoms.


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## NoFuture

moor_91 said:


> The esophagus is a collapsed tube, it is a barrier to gas from the stomach exiting the mouth, except at times like burping or vomiting.


unless you have gastritis. If you have gastrtis esophagus is not a collapsed tube. The halitosis product of the gastritis can only be eliminated by treating the gastritis


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## moor_91

ok, good luck with that


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## Nakir22

moor_91 said:


> I suppose the logical answer is that the odor is delusional.


Or there is a brain-gut connection.


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## NoFuture

moor_91 said:


> ok, good luck with that


What you say is right. In normal conditions the esophagus should be hermetic avoiding the gases in stomach going out. That means that if there is no gastritis in almost all cases halitosis come from mouth: dental problem, bacteria in tongue or nasal problem. Usually the problem is some bacteria at the end of the tongue which sometimes are very difficult to remove. Some people think that Helycobacter Pylori could be the cause in some halitosis cases, because after removing H.P. with antibiotics there was no halitosis. But the thing is that in these cases the halitosis was gone because the antibiotics had eliminated bacteria in tongue besides H.P.

The same point of view should be use by rectal mal odor. In normal conditions when rectal mechanism works fine, it´s imposible that odor and gases form inside come out, it doesn´t matter if you have IBS or any disease in gut. The odor and gases wouldn´t come out through rectum if the continent mechanism was fine. In case of rectum is not like esophagus, where although esophagus is fine you can look for the cause in tongue, dental or nasal problems. After the anal canal there is nothing. The cause should be fine in the continent mechanism.

Under my point of view the cause of rectal mal odor is always a problem with the continent mechanism. Pelvic floor muscles, sphinter muscles and/or mucosa and rectal walls. In relative young people (under 60 years) it's very difficult that pelvic floor muscles,sphinter muscles and whole rectal walls are damaged. Then the solution should be find in the rectal mucosa. Not forgetting that when the mucosa is damaged the patient could have a fake feeling that the sphinter muscles are weak and thinking that he has a problem in IAS when the most probably cause is a problem in the mucosa.

I'm saying this because I see many people in this forum trying to look for the reason of rectal mal odor in gut, diet and other causes, when in my opinion the cause is always a failure in the continent mechanism.

But this is only my opinion. I don't want to bother anyone. Please don't feel bad for my opinions. This is a forum and we all are free to say what we think.


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## moor_91

NoFuture said:


> In relative young people (under 60 years) it's very difficult that pelvic floor muscles,sphinter muscles and whole rectal walls are damaged


um, giving birth? About 0.9-9% of vaginal deliveries cause obvious or occult sphincter tears. Not to mention damage from long term straining, this causes stretch induced pudendal neuropathy resulting in weakness of levator ani and IAS. What about very common anorectal surgical procedures like hemorrhoid surgery?

re "gastritis halitosis", believe what you like, I don't care


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## NoFuture

moor_91 said:


> um, giving birth? About 0.9-9% of vaginal deliveries cause obvious or occult sphincter tears. Not to mention damage from long term straining, this causes stretch induced pudendal neuropathy resulting in weakness of levator ani and IAS. What about very common anorectal surgical procedures like hemorrhoid surgery?
> 
> re "gastritis halitosis", believe what you like, I don't care


I only said that problems on pelvic floor muscles and sphinter muscles would be something very strange in relative young male people, but not impossible. Anyway you should have a cause for this. That could be an injury because anorectal surgery where the doctor had made a mistake, an injury by giving birth (woman only obvious...) or other tipe of injury... But without an injury it would be almost impossible that a young man have IAS weakness or pelvic floor weakness.

The idea of IAS weakness because of long term straining in a young male adult is very strange (impossible in my opinion).. Usually because of long term straining and constipation the patient develops hemorrhoiden or develops a mucosal prolapse syndrome (both are very similar). Hemorhoiden is the most common consecuence of constipation. And as I said, patients with mucosal prolapse syndrome can have a feeling of IAS weakness, but this is because the mucosa is going down and produces weakness on the anal canal.

The causes of halitosis can be many. The three most common are bacteria in the tongue, dental problem and nasal problem. If there is a gastritis with high inflammation, the "valve" of the esophagus don't make a hermetic close and the odor of the stomach comes out. That is because you have to pay attention to the odor of the halitosis. The cause of halitosis with fecal odor, vomit odor, sweet and sour odor, rancid odor... may not be the same.

But yes, halitosis because of gastrtis is something stranger as halitosis because of the other three problems which are the most common cases.


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## moor_91

NoFuture said:


> The idea of IAS weakness because of long term straining in a young male adult is very strange (impossible in my opinion)..


The amount of times I have read in papers and textbooks about straining being the major cause of so many anorectal problems I have lost count. Never strain seems to be the message ... take bulking agent ... take water enema ... squat not sit...get biofeedback if anismus.

from http://en.wikipedia....s.2Fdenervation



> The pelvic floor is innervated by the pudendal nerve and the S3 and S4 branches of the pelvic plexus. With recurrent straining, e.g. during difficult labour or long term constipation, then stretch injury can damage the nerves supplying levator ani. The pudendal nerve is especially vulnerable to irreversible damage, (stretch induced pudendal neuropathy, which can occur with a 12% stretch.[2] If the pelvic floor muscles loose their innervation, they cease to contract and their muscle fibres are in time replaced by fibrous tissue, which is associated with pelvic floor weakness and incontinence


I'm not going to argue with people about halitosis here anymore, I said believe what you like. I don't even have halitosis anymore thank god


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## moor_91

Nakir22 said:


> Or there is a brain-gut connection.


I was being slightly facetious. Lot serotonin receptors in the ENS compared to the brain, I don't really study that stuff because I feel my problem is localised to the anorectum... but yes I believe that a proportion of people who complain of odor, there will be physiological odor only, and superimposed is psychological or even neurological conditions. Also peripheral causes of dysosmia, smelling things that are really there. Often, people write about a ORS like syndrome persisting after a transient cause of odor like halitophobia after tonsil stones. While I would be willing to accept that I am imagining my own problem, there is presently much more evidence stacked against this scenario


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## NoFuture

moor_91 said:


> The amount of times I have read in papers and textbooks about straining being the major cause of so many anorectal problems I have lost count. Never strain seems to be the message ... take bulking agent ... take water enema ... squat not sit...get biofeedback if anismus.


It would be rare but possible. What would happen is mucosal prolapse syndrome because long term straining and then after a time with mucosal prolapse syndrome you would have IAS weakness. IAS weakness can be too cause and consecuence of mucosal prolapse syndrome.


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## moor_91

NoFuture said:


> It would be rare but possible.


nerve damage causing pelvic floor and/or anal sphincter weakness is listed as a cause of many cases of FI. Unless you provide me evidence that is more convincing that what I read in papers and textbook, I go on to believe this.


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## BlueBird Happy

NoFuture said:


> leaky gaser´s fight club?


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## BlueBird Happy

First rule of LG/FBO fight club?







I'll take some of that action.
(I'm baaaaack)


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## NoFuture

moor_91 said:


> nerve damage causing pelvic floor and/or anal sphincter weakness is listed as a cause of many cases of FI. Unless you provide me evidence that is more convincing that what I read in papers and textbook, I go on to believe this.


I´m not here to convince you. You can believe what you want. But, pudendal nerve damage?? You should have a cause for that: damage because pelvic radioterapy, profesional cycling, trauma, birth giving or being very old. If you think this is your problem...


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## moor_91

NoFuture said:


> I´m not here to convince you. You can believe what you want. But, pudendal nerve damage?? You should have a cause for that: damage because pelvic radioterapy, profesional cycling, trauma, birth giving or being very old. If you think this is your problem...


http://books.google.... floor weakness (click on first page in the results list). This is maybe the most widely respected GI textbook going


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## NoFuture

It says what I told you. For IAS weakness you must have sphincter damage like an injury, chirugie or something like that. Only because long term straining would be very strange.
Anyway, why are you so worry about the cause? If you think that you have IAS weakness, go to the doctor and make a manometry to mess the sphincter pressures. It would be very rare that a young male adult have sphincter weakness without an injury or chirugie that went wrong..
I'm not saying that it's impossible, but it would be something very inusual without a cause.


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## moor_91

NoFuture said:


> It says what I told you. For IAS weakness you must have sphincter damage like an injury, chirugie or something like that. Only because long term straining would be very strange.
> Anyway, why are you so worry about the cause? If you think that you have IAS weakness, go to the doctor and make a manometry to mess the sphincter pressures. It would be very rare that a young male adult have sphincter weakness without an injury or chirugie that went wrong..
> I'm not saying that it's impossible, but it would be something very inusual without a cause.


what? it doesn't say that for IAS weakness there must be injury. In fact it say neuropathy is a common cause, along with damage.

"common causes of sphincter weakness include sphincter damage, *neuropathy* [i.e. nerve damage] ... there is a tendency to focus on the sphincters, but many pateints with FI also have *generalized pelvic floor weakness* ...Another manifestation of the pelvic floor weakness is the descending perineum syndrome, which results from combination of obstetric trauma, *chronic straining*, or *neuroapthy *[which can be caused by straining] ... Clinical manifestations initially constipation, then FI [sound familiar?] ... *excessive straining* during evacuation can contribute to pelvic floor weakness..."

why would stretch induced pudendal neuropathy be rare in young males? Anismus is common in young ppl. More common reason for problems than direct injury to the sphincters, I would say...


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## NoFuture

It says: common causes of sphincter weakness include sphincter damage, neuropathy and reduced input from cerebral cortex or spinal cord.
Why are you so worry about the cause? If you think that your problem is IAS weakness, go to the doctor and make a manometry, and if the manometry ratifies that you have IAS weakness you should begin with pelvic floor exercises, electrostimulation..
As I said, it would be very rare in a young male because if you're young and male your pelvic floor muscles are usually in very good shape.


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## moor_91

NoFuture said:


> Why are you so worry about the cause?


"no diagnosis, no treatment"


> If you think that your problem is IAS weakness, go to the doctor and make a manometry, and if the manometry ratifies that you have IAS weakness you should begin with pelvic floor exercises, electrostimulation..


I did this...showed pressure within normal range, but the length over which the IAS pressure was exerted was reduced. From http://www.fascrs.or...l_incontinence/

"Configuration of anal canal: The effectiveness of the plug mechanism not only depends on the absolute number of the pressure values, but is a function of the length of the high-pressure zone and its radial translation of force. Focal defects (e.g. keyhole deformity after previous anorectal surgery) can therefore result in significant symptoms despite a seemingly normal pressure profile."

So, the length over which the IAS exerts pressure is just as important as the pressure alone. Things do feel a lot better after a few weeks of electrical stimulation of anal sphincters. Worth the pain, the EAS at least feels a lot more bulky, I tend to have bloating again whereas before gas would leak out. Not sure if I am cured or not, I have adapted so well to being in public with this problem, reading + earphonse, that it is hard for me to tell. Even when I take the earphones out to speak to sales assistant, my mind is so fcked from years of people making comments that I can't trust my own sensory perception any more.



> As I said, it would be very rare in a young male because if you're young and male your pelvic floor muscles are usually in very good shape.


I disagree because I feel that anismus is common in young people. I have read many times that too much straining causes many problems, including stretch induced nerve damage to the nerves supplying the anorectum, not just prolapse conditions, SRUS etc etc. You could even argue that a pelvic floor muscles in better shape are able to strain more, and capable of causing more nerve damage over time, but I have not read this anywhere. Neither of us has any firm evidence about whether stretch induced nerve damage is common in young males with minor FI, or very rare, apart from own suspicions, so I agree to disagree. If I do find reference to this, I will post it...not having a go at you, just need correct information


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## NoFuture

Hi moor_91, the following post is long but I think it´s worth for you to read it.

Ok. Let´s suppose that you developed IAS weakness because long term straining. My opinion is that this would be a consequence of long term straining, but not completely direct, and not completely real. Keep in mind that between the straining that you do and the IAS musculature is the rectal mucosa. If you had been doing so many strain that you have damaged the IAS for sure you have damaged your mucosa before. A normal case in most of the people, the consequence due long term straining, would be hemorrhoids. Other possibility, not so common like hemorrhoids, would be mucosal prolapsed syndrome. Hemorrhoids and MPS are similar and their causes are similar.

But this weakness is not a real IAS weakness. Your results ratify what I thought:

"I did this...showed pressure within normal range, but the length over which the IAS pressure was exerted was reduced"

In my opinion these results are very good! That means that is not a real IAS weakness (that would be a big problem). The IAS musculature is ok. The problem is that the length where the pressure is done is reduced.

Possible explanation for this: The IAS makes his pressure in the final part of anal canal (anal skin), just before joint with rectal mucosa. If you have a mucosal prolapsed syndrome (that would be probable because long term S.) the rectal mucosa is a little bit displaced down. It´s almost something imperceptible by ocular test of the doctor. The anal skin is connected to the rectal mucosa in the joint between anus and rectum. Then the length where the IAS makes his pressure is reduced because this anal skin is also a little bit down because the hole structure is down due MPS.

The problem is not in the power of your IAS muscles. The problem is where and how exactly this power is transmitted. You have the feeling of IAS weakness, but is not a real IAS musculature weakness. As I told you, damage in the IAS musculature in a young male adult would be something very very difficult and strange.

If that is your case, you could check it by using hemorrhoid suppositories of Hamamelis + Vitamin E. This suppositories would make a astringent and antiinflammatior effect restoring the rectal mucosa and moving the whole structure (rectal mucosa + anal skin) up. Then the length where IAS makes his pressure should come back to normality. After a few days with the supossitories you should start feeling like your whole rectal/anal structure is a little more fixed and dryer (maybe some doctors will tell you that is normal to have mucus in your anus, my opinion is that's not normal, if you have wetness discharge, is because the mucosa is not completely healthy in one level or another. The anal area should be dry in normal conditions. That many people have wetness in their anus doesn't mean that this is healthy). Usually this supossitories are used one in the morning (after bowel movement) and one at night. But if you have to go to work be carefully with morning dose, you may have a little leak due the fluid of suppository. In this case you can use it only at night and when you don't work.

Anyway, suppositories of hamamelis will not harm you. You can try them and if you don't feel a little improvement in one or two weeks, then other possibilities should be considered.

Using the electro stimulator may help you a little bit and give you the feeling of restoring this part, but it´s not the solution. Your IAS musculature is ok according to the results you posted.


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## NoFuture

If you use the electro stimulator, you shouldn't have pain by using it. I think you can regulate the intensity. You should use so much intensity as you can, but WITHOUT HAVING PAIN. Otherwise you could damage your musculatur.


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## moor_91

NoFuture said:


> Ok. Let´s suppose that you developed IAS weakness because long term straining. My opinion is that this would be a consequence of long term straining, but not completely direct, and not completely real. Keep in mind that between the straining that you do and the IAS musculature is the rectal mucosa. If you had been doing so many strain that you have damaged the IAS for sure you have damaged your mucosa before. A normal case in most of the people, the consequence due long term straining, would be hemorrhoids.


agree that chronic and excessive straining can cause damage by multiple mechanisms. Direct aamage to mucosa, damage to hemorrhoidal vascular cushions, AND indirect damage to nerves when they are stretched. Look into the research surrounding pudendal nerve terminal latency, I think that nerve damage is an important factor.



> Other possibility, not so common like hemorrhoids, would be mucosal prolapsed syndrome. Hemorrhoids and MPS are similar and their causes are similar.


the problem with mucosal prolapse syndrome is that, along with the rectal prolapse conditions in general, there is much disagreement about the terminology. As I understand it, mucosal prolapse syndrome refers to SRUS, internal intussusception, collitis cystica profunda (treated same as SRUS). There is confusion about the difference between internal rectal mucosal prolapse (RIMP) and internal hemorrhoids. http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16007353 It took me a long time to understand rectal prolapse conditions http://en.wikipedia....Rectal_prolapse and all I learnt in the end is that there is massive disagreement around the world about what the conditions are, what they should be called, how they are caused, and how to treat. From what you have said so far, your theory is that a common cause for rectal odor is malodorous rectal mucous discharge, being secreted in excessive amounts by the anorectal mucosa, in response to inflammation by certain foods. And that treating the inflammation with a topical anti-inflammatory will reduce the mucous discharge. In my case, I had biopsies taken during a scope, (from the internal rectal valves I guess), which showed normal mucosa. This rules out inflammation, at least at the time of biopsy, at the site of the biopsies. I also think that your theory is oversimplification of the causes of mucous discharge, of which there are a great many. Why are certain foods causing inflammation? Allergy? I think diet has a more direct effect on odor by altering the transit time (and hence length of time for fermentation) and the sulfur content of substrate available to bacteria.



> But this weakness is not a real IAS weakness. Your results ratify what I thought:
> 
> In my opinion these results are very good! That means that is not a real IAS weakness (that would be a big problem). The IAS musculature is ok. The problem is that the length where the pressure is done is reduced.
> 
> Possible explanation for this: The IAS makes his pressure in the final part of anal canal (anal skin), just before joint with rectal mucosa. If you have a mucosal prolapsed syndrome (that would be probable because long term S.) the rectal mucosa is a little bit displaced down. It´s almost something imperceptible by ocular test of the doctor. The anal skin is connected to the rectal mucosa in the joint between anus and rectum. Then the length where the IAS makes his pressure is reduced because this anal skin is also a little bit down because the hole structure is down due MPS.
> 
> The problem is not in the power of your IAS muscles. The problem is where and how exactly this power is transmitted. You have the feeling of IAS weakness, but is not a real IAS musculature weakness. As I told you, damage in the IAS musculature in a young male adult would be something very very difficult and strange.


this had recently occurred to me too. That the length of the IAS pressure zone is reduced because of the leading edge of an intussusception or internal mucosal prolapse is descending slightly into the anal canal. A recto-anal intussuception this is called (as opposed to a recto-rectal intussusception).










Before this, 2 people posted reporting here that internal mucosal prolapse and internal rectal intussusception caused their rectal odor. When these conditions were treated, the odor symptom was treated. I started to learn about rectal prolapse conditions, culminating in asking for defecography, which apparently showed only anismsus and incomplete evac. I never saw the x-rays, so I can't comment, but you would hope that the surgeon knew how to diagnose these things. I even mentioned mucosal prolapse, and he shook his head. Hope he knew what it was lol. So I paid for more solesta, not very hopeful that it will benefit. Got less than 1 week to be sticking things up there, after solesta you can't do this for 1 month to allow the injected material to stabilize and be colonized by fibroblasts and collegen matrix. If I still have rectal odor, I will try the vitamin E & anti-inflammatories

Re electrostimulation. It does hurt even at low strength. Got it up to 65/100 now. Starts to contract entire pelvic floor very strongly, and aches a bit the next day. Feels like you testicles are trying to go back into the body too...looked this up, its because cremaster muscle is close by to anal sphincters, elevates the testicles. Only hurts in one place, left lateral wall of anal canal. Maybe where there is int hem or previous injury from solesta needle? Its like there is a raw nerve there. I am not worried about damage, I think it is just a "weird nerve" that is over-reacting. Besides, if you don't use the product at 100% strength, how can you fully assess its benefit?


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## NoFuture

Important concepts:

Rectal Prolapse: A section of the WHOLE RECTAL WALL falls down. It MAY GO OUTSIDE through anal sphincter . Easy to test by a doctor because of the evident symptoms. Defecografy would confirm a definitive diagnostic. Treatment: Quirugie
Internal intussusception: A partial intern prolapse of the WHOLE RECTAL WALL in rectum that DON'T GO OUTSIDE anus. Test by defecografy. Treatment: Quirugie
Mucosal Prolapse Syndrome: Only some parts of THE RECTAL MUCOSA and NOT THE WHOLE WALL have inflammation and are separated of the rectal wall. The parts with inflammation may discharge fluids. Doctors without experience can mistake them and think they are hemorroids. Test by proctolog manualy with proctoscopie. He will tell the patient to do a movement like if he was trying to evacuate. In this moment he will see the parts with inflammation a with a little prolapse.Treatment: A medicament with antiinflamatory and astringent properties. Vitamin E, supositories of Hamamelis+Vitamin E, Mesalazine (mesalazine didn't work for me..)
Wet Anus Syndrome: The previous step to Mucosal Prolapse Syndrome. The mucosa is with inflammation but there are not yet parts of the mucosa separated of the rectal wall. Anyway there is fluid discharge because of the inflammation. Test by trusting the symptoms that the patient explains. Treatments: Same as Mucosal Prolapse Syndrome.


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## NoFuture

moor_91 said:


> Re electrostimulation. It does hurt even at low strength. Got it up to 65/100 now. Starts to contract entire pelvic floor very strongly, and aches a bit the next day. Feels like you testicles are trying to go back into the body too...looked this up, its because cremaster muscle is close by to anal sphincters, elevates the testicles. Only hurts in one place, left lateral wall of anal canal. Maybe where there is int hem or previous injury from solesta needle? Its like there is a raw nerve there. I am not worried about damage, I think it is just a "weird nerve" that is over-reacting. Besides, if you don't use the product at 100% strength, how can you fully assess its benefit?


Be carefull with the electro stimulation. It could help you. But you could damage your sphincter muscles and that would be a very big problem.

If you don't really need it, I wouldn't use it. I don't think that the problem is on the pressure power of your IAS. And if that was the case, you should use it for the rest of your life, if the IAS lose his tone it wouldn't come back. If other treatments don't work, you always are in time to use it after.


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## glovernation

dear friends, been there, ask you doctor to test you for small bowel overgrowth bacteria. these bacteria are normal but we have them in excess numbers. they produce the slight odor other people occasionally have but because we have so many of them, we have tremendous odor and i had explosive gas . my life was almost ruined. i got relief after 6 years by taking a common antibiotic that is used to give to travelers for travelers diarrhea . it still comes back once or twice a year. i just call my gastro enterologist for a prescription and the odor is gone with in the week.the anibiotic is called rifampin and it is really rather cheap. also i found out i have an immunoglobuln g deficiency. doc says this is the immunoglobulin that make antibodies in the digestive system and that's probably why the bacteria over grow . i also was thinking about trying a fecal transplant if this hadn't worked. god bless you. may you continue to strive toward you cure. ps dont be so sensitive, ignore every one who has a problem with you. they are so low in mental ability and low in self esteem that they can't begin to understand. they are not worth caring about. you must constantly tell yourself you are worth the effort ans will finally find an answer. meditation helps


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