# tried some new things - great results



## westr (Jan 27, 2012)

my background is LG, fixed it through diet, probiotics and few other things but i had lost my job and was at home most of the time so no sitting down in a clean dry office. LG came back a bit after my diet went back to normal, got rid of it again but this time i sometimes had a lingering permanent fecal smell. moved to a new job and could smell things quite bad, i think because i was sitting down on a clean office all day.

so anyway, stepped up the probiotic to 20 billion cultures per pill, took 2 pills per day. changed my sitting posture from pretty much all my weight on my coccyx to how it should be. concentrated on evacuation, i now try very hard not to leave anything left over, not by straining but by relaxing my pelvic floor and trying a push even when i have no urgent feeling, also never ignoring the urge. another thing is if i need to pass wind ill think in my head that its solid and kind of use its compression to move out any remaining solids. another thing i do is suck on a menthol breath mint if i think i can smell the start of LG/FBO.

how things are now is no smell in the office which is an absolute godsend. a weird thing i had when i would tense my pelvic floor and see my penis twist for the first few tenses (as opposed to pulling back as normal) has now all but dissapeared, now only happens on rare occaisons after i urinate. i find it easier to pass gas, before it felt like i was trying to push out my rectum along with it. i can also now last the day without scratching my ass too, its been itchy for 5 years.

what im taking from all this is i think the way i was sitting was causing some kind of nerve or muscle problem, and that some of the smell is in my saliva or tongue or whatever. not completely though, and none of this explains the other things i used to have like weird bowel movements, anxiety, and sweat patches where there shouldnt be. also just recently went to amsterdam so maybe smoking weed or shagging teenage hungarian slags helps it.


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## DevilOnMyBack (Aug 30, 2012)

westr said:


> -changed my sitting posture from pretty much all my weight on my coccyx to how it should be.
> 
> -what im taking from all this is i think the way i was sitting was causing some kind of nerve or muscle problem, and that some of the smell is in my saliva or tongue or whatever. not completely though, and none of this explains the other things i used to have like weird bowel movements, anxiety, and sweat patches where there shouldnt be. also just recently went to amsterdam so maybe smoking weed or shagging teenage hungarian slags helps it.


Its funny that you say that, I probably have the worst sitting posture possible when sitting at my computer. In general I have bad posture, I'll definitely try to improve that.
As to that last bit, it's also ironic because my symptoms started to go away this one weekend after I got completely sauced at a wedding in august. I used to smoke weed occasionally, (late 2011 - early 2012), which was around the time I was at my absolute worst with my FBO. However, at that time I wasn't doing anything to try to counter my smell and I just sulked. I'm in my off season for rugby and all I'm doing is training. I'm going to smoke weed again to test how it does on my smell sometime this winter as right now I am in control of it, like you seem to be.
Good on ya mate.


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## westr (Jan 27, 2012)

does your ass sometimes hurt when youve sat down a long time? mine used to occaisionally, now ive corrected my posture it hurts everyday but only when im getting up from my chair.


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## DevilOnMyBack (Aug 30, 2012)

Yeah it does sometimes, for you though since it's hurting after you corrected your posture, its probably because you're not used to it. I'll give it a go for the next few weeks and keep you updated


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## westr (Jan 27, 2012)

just thought id mention i also focus on not keeping my stomach in. now i let it push out in front of me naturally. the weird thing is after i eat i can feel it expand. dunno if its relavent.


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## moor_91 (Nov 7, 2012)

manometry will tell you about the resting and voluntary contraction of the anal canal, but also its length. Also measured is rectal compliance and sensitivity. You might be describing rectal hyposensitivity- major sign is not being able to tell the difference between gas or liquid in the rectum.

The more information the better. I think that leaking is a good reason to get manometry + some kind of anorectal scan like endoanal ultrasound.


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## DevilOnMyBack (Aug 30, 2012)

westr said:


> just thought id mention i also focus on not keeping my stomach in. now i let it push out in front of me naturally. the weird thing is after i eat i can feel it expand. dunno if its relavent.


I do too, just something i've learned to let happen. With my diet and fitness being so important I didn't like to do that before. But now after I eat a meal i let it out (even though i dont really have a stomach anymore), but you know what I mean. I also find that I used to breath with my chest. I find letting my stomach contract with my breaths rather than keeping things in my chest a lot more relaxing in general. Keeps anxiety down a bit, etc.


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## westr (Jan 27, 2012)

pengu said:


> my poasture is horrible. Like a little old lady. Got back pains constantly. Used to sit on my coxxyx with my legs up on the bus so I wouldn't get sweat stains on my butt. I know ti made things worse but it would have been better than walking around with a diarrhea stain on my butt.
> 
> I also have trouble farting. It'll feel like I'm pushing out a bubble or something. I can count the number of times I've had a regular fart on my right hand.
> 
> I also think it is sometimes in the breath too. or at least saliva. Something could be leaking back into the system. I constantly taste a fecal taste at the back of my throat


 i get the bubbe thing too, i had forgotten a regular fart just appears as a feeling in the rectum. i also dont get any variance in sound, its either forced out and makes a sound or i have trouble passing it and it exits without a sound. do you ever get the feeling that when the bubble arives in the rectum it pushes against something? and you have to ait for it to get past this something before you can push it out?


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## Common Response (Dec 26, 2009)

pengu said:


> my poasture is horrible. Like a little old lady. Got back pains constantly. Used to sit on my coxxyx with my legs up on the bus so I wouldn't get sweat stains on my butt. I know ti made things worse but it would have been better than walking around with a diarrhea stain on my butt.
> 
> I also have trouble farting. It'll feel like I'm pushing out a bubble or something. I can count the number of times I've had a regular fart on my right hand.
> 
> I also think it is sometimes in the breath too. or at least saliva. Something could be leaking back into the system. I constantly taste a fecal taste at the back of my throat


Hi P.

Haven't interacted with you for some time.

Leveraging off Dr Sue Shepherds research, the breath odor your talking about is most likely coming from the lungs.

When testing for fructose and lactose intolerance, the patients are tested by blowing into a gasometer which detects hydrogen and methane.
These gases are produced in the digestive system of those with some food intolerances, then pass into our blood stream, eventually escaping through our breath via the lungs.

If this is the route of hydrogen, & methane (both odorless and tasteless compounds) who knows what other compounds are also exhaled?

Excluding oral odors specific to our mouths, you're probably experiencing the exhalation of related compounds.

Naturally occurring methane is mainly produced by the process of methanogenesis.
Methanogenesis is a form of anaerobic respiration used by organisms that occupy landfill, ruminants, and the guts of termites.
If those with food intolerances produce large amounts of methane/hydrogen, then are their guts over populated with specific bacteria which metabolises anaerobically?

It's well known that it's anaerobic decomposition in garden composts which are a foul smelling mess, whilst a well turned oxygenated compost produces a sweet smelling result.

In order to eliminate oral specific issues, it's well worth ensuring you:
Regularly scrape the tongue, particularly right at the back where you get a gag reflex.
Ensure there is no blockage/infection of nasal passages which might drain into the throat.
Keep mouth moist.
Dental floss regulalry.
Brush.
Refrain from excessive alcohol/coffee.


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## westr (Jan 27, 2012)

my problems started when i threw away a toothbrush with a scraper bit on the back and bought an ordinary one, things improved after i bought one with a scraper again. definitely related.


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## moor_91 (Nov 7, 2012)

CR, you are talking about blood borne halitosis. Methane is odorless, but the hydrogen/methane breath test does illustrate the blood borne halitosis route. Odorant volatiles mostly produced in gut by bacteria, absorbeed by gut lining, exposed to hepatic metabolism in liver. However 2 problems can lead to elevated odorant volatiles in the general circulation: i. overload of volatiels produced by an overgrowth of gut bacteria and ii. genetic deficiencies of liver enzymes that normally "clean" the blood of these chemicals. Result can be odor transferred from the blood to the breath during gas exchange in the lungs and odor transferred to sweat. Also when there is liver, kidney or pancreatic failure/insufficiency, the body'e own waste products will not be filtered from the blood, possibly leading to blood borne odor states expressed as fetor hepaticus, uremic fetor/fetor uremicus and ketoacidosis respectively.

2 common blood borne odor states are dimethylsulfidemia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethylsulfidemia interesting because a VSC called dimethylsulfide is present in the blood. DMS is one of the 3 main VSC that makes the odor of feces and flatus, hence dimethylsulfidemia can lead ot a "sweetly fecal" body odor and halitosis. Might be relevant to some. Other is trimethylaminuria, intesresting because most TMAU patients have a fecal odor rather than fish odor. Probably because the relevant enzyme FMO3 also deals with many other amines and sulfides. It is oversimplification to think that FMO3 overload/dysfunciton will lead to blood borne presence of TMA alone. Probably there is mixture of TMA, other amines and blood stable VSCs like DMS.

Tongue scrapers and other oral hygiene will only reduce intra-oral halitosis (i.e. not blood borne halitosis), but everyone has some degree of intraoral halitosis, so if you have a breath problem from blood borne odor it might help to reduce the overall odor by tackling what you can in the mouth. Rest is diet, antibiotics to try and control the gut microbiota..


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## Common Response (Dec 26, 2009)

westr said:


> i used to have like weird bowel movements, anxiety, and sweat patches where there shouldnt be. also just recently went to amsterdam so maybe smoking weed or shagging teenage hungarian slags helps it.


My personal experience (smoked 25 yrs), the weed route can cause heavy duty problems with anxiety/stress loops and make it difficult to overcome any auto responses you develop in this area.

Naturally, when you're on holidays stress levels are controlled.
You end up being where you want to be and for how long, so you're exposure to interaction with others is controlled and chosen.
No matter what we suffer from, stress will increase our symptoms.

I found weed not only took me in the opposite direction to where I needed to go, but the short term escape didn't last and I ended up with additional problems to deal with.

I'm all for experimentation and fun, but weed wasted a large part of my life.
These days I've found meditation far more powerful.
Two years ago I learned a technique taught by the Buddha which accelerated my sitting experiences.

The lowest Jhanic state called "Piti" walks all over any weed related high, with a natural timeless ecstatic state in which we begin to see the brilliance of everything around us.
The only drawback is that you must practice, perhaps minimum 1 - 2 hours daily.

Quote: _Piti is a very specific joy associated with a state of deep tranquillity. It is often translated with the English words "joy" or rapture and is distinguished from the longer-lasting meditative "pleasure" or "happiness" (Pali, Sanskrit: sukha) that arises along with piti._

Built on global relaxation and focus on the body and breath, the indirect benefit is that you can eventually break down any auto responses you may have developed which cause anxiety, tension, fear, and stress.
What better way to overcome one of the major factors controlling our condition, allowing us to eliminate from our list.


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## Common Response (Dec 26, 2009)

You've definately captured in technical terms what I was suggesting M.

Now our problem is "how do we overcome it?".



moor_91 said:


> CR, you are talking about blood borne halitosis. Methane is odorless, but the hydrogen/methane breath test does illustrate the blood borne halitosis route. Odorant volatiles mostly produced in gut by bacteria, absorbeed by gut lining, exposed to hepatic metabolism in liver. However 2 problems can lead to elevated odorant volatiles in the general circulation: i. overload of volatiels produced by an overgrowth of gut bacteria and ii. genetic deficiencies of liver enzymes that normally "clean" the blood of these chemicals. Result can be odor transferred from the blood to the breath during gas exchange in the lungs and odor transferred to sweat. Also when there is liver, kidney or pancreatic failure/insufficiency, the body'e own waste products will not be filtered from the blood, possibly leading to blood borne odor states expressed as fetor hepaticus, uremic fetor/fetor uremicus and ketoacidosis respectively.
> 
> 2 common blood borne odor states are dimethylsulfidemia, http://en.wikipedia....ethylsulfidemia interesting because a VSC called dimethylsulfide is present in the blood. DMS is one of the 3 main VSC that makes the odor of feces and flatus, hence dimethylsulfidemia can lead ot a "sweetly fecal" body odor and halitosis. Might be relevant to some. Other is trimethylaminuria, intesresting because most TMAU patients have a fecal odor rather than fish odor. Probably because the relevant enzyme FMO3 also deals with many other amines and sulfides. It is oversimplification to think that FMO3 overload/dysfunciton will lead to blood borne presence of TMA alone. Probably there is mixture of TMA, other amines and blood stable VSCs like DMS.
> 
> Tongue scrapers and other oral hygiene will only reduce intra-oral halitosis (i.e. not blood borne halitosis), but everyone has some degree of intraoral halitosis, so if you have a breath problem from blood borne odor it might help to reduce the overall odor by tackling what you can in the mouth. Rest is diet, antibiotics to try and control the gut microbiota..


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## moor_91 (Nov 7, 2012)

Common Response said:


> Now our problem is "how do we overcome it?".


blood borne odor conditions will remain very difficult to diagnose and treat, due to lack of interest by researchers. As usual, odor is not considered to be a serious symptom by doctors. They fail to recognize the devastating psychosocial implications of living with odor for any length of time. Instead, we have emphasis on "olfactory reference syndrome", much easier to convince a patient that they are crazy than identify and treat a difficult metabolic condition. Those blood borne odor conditions which do get some attention (e.g. TMAU) are oversimplified to the point of lies.

If the cause is organ failure, the patient usually either dies from that, or they get a transplant or something. Smelling is probably the least worry when blood borne odor is secondary to organ failure.

When there is an overgrowth of bacteria (secondary blood borne odor), I suppose you would treat as for SIBO, antibiotics, low FODMAP etc

When there is genetic defects of hepatic enzymes, e.g. classically primary TMAU, the dietary precursors to the odorant volatile can be identified and reduced. In case of TMAU, it is choline, which becomes TMA when exposed to action of gut bacteria. TMA is absorbed into the blood and causes the fish odor, (although as I mentioned above, many TMAU cases smell fecal rather than fish like).

Pretty much the only way people can try and manage blood borne odor that is caused by a genetic defect of a hepatic enzyme pathway is through diet. Trial and error, what makes smell worse, what relieves it. Problem is that you cannot cut out sulfur completely without problems...Dietary measures +/- antibiotics is all there is until gene therapy and fecal transplants and things get applied to unglamorous conditions like these


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