# Drugged on Levsin!



## bkitepilot (Dec 7, 2003)

Hello All!I have IBS-CDue to the severe spams in my belly and small intestine.. causing vomiting, I was put on Levsin almost 2 weeks ago and I cannot function at all. I am so drugged, that I'm almost incoherent. The dilatation of my pupils render focusing impossible, I can't concentrate on a conversation, heck I can barely hold my head up. Today I decided not to use it to clear my head and am so weak from being flat and (vomiting from the IBS) that I've lost a tremendous amount of ground with my health. I have recently lost 15 pounds which puts me into an anorexic state and I fear without the Levsin I will continue to twist in my belly losing all my nutrition. The Levsin DOES help the spasms.I have used Librax which doesn't do a thing for me but cause me to go cross-eyed sleepy.Bentyl is a just a more expensive brand of Librax.Some Docs say that Levsin and Levbid are the exact same drug.... but Levbid is hyoscyamine hydrochloride and Levsin is Hyoscyamine sulfate. Totally different in my nurse opinion don't you think?I need a antispasmotic with fewer symptoms. Do any of you know of one? Thanks so much,Belinda


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## mikestujd (Nov 19, 2003)

Wow i feel really bad that you are having all these side effects. I take 2 .125 MG tablets of levsin in the morning after breakfast and 2 after lunch. Actually it is Hyoscyamine generic. I didnt know about those two different forms of Levsin so thanks for the info, ill be sure to ask my specialist about it. The only side effect I get from the Levsin is dry mouth and I really think that it does stop most of my spasms within about 30 minutes. I tried Bentyl but that did nothing and just made me feel like ####. I just like how the tablets seem to work a lot faster and target the lower GI symptoms. Even if the spasms still continue, I noticed that now i can actually expell some of the gas and they stop. Before medication I could never do that. However since 4 tablets is the max I have to feel the symptoms in the evening as a price to pay for feeling better during the day. Always curious if others are seeing the same success.


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## JackieGian (Mar 23, 2002)

How about Pamine?


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## bkitepilot (Dec 7, 2003)

Hi Mike,Wow I wish I could be just like you. My worst moments are in the evening.... breakfast is the only meal I can really take without problems. The Levsin is true relief for passing gas, what a delight to finally pass that nasty painful stuff. My belly swells to the point of being shiney, like being 9 months pregnant. And the spasms are visible, looks like I have an anaconda writhing in my stomach. I am on Levsin 0.125 SL 1 every 6 hours, the sublingual works VERY fast but my side effects don't wear off for 5 hours and then it's time to go again. I actually get an accumulative effect. Tonight I'm going to try a half of a pill to see my reaction. Jackie what is Pamine?







Belinda


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## JackieGian (Mar 23, 2002)

Pamine is an anti-spasmodic that is supposed to have fewer side effects because it doesn't effect the central nervous system. Here is some info


> quote: Pamineï¿½ Rx Only (methscopolamine bromide) The discomforts of bloating, diarrhea, cramps and other related GI problems caused by hypermotility (increased muscular activity in the GI tract) is, in fact, a fairly common condition. Statistics show that as many as 20% - 30% of the general population experience these symptoms on a regular basis.Pamineï¿½ helps relieve the pain associated with bloating, diarrhea, and cramps by slowing the motion of the GI tract. Safe, effective, and time-tested, Pamineï¿½ reduces the amount of acid in your stomach, thereby reducing the pain associated with excessive stomach acid. And, unlike some anticholinergics/antispasmodics that contain substances that cross the blood-brain barrier and enter the Central Nervous System (CNS), Pamineï¿½ has not been shown to penetrate the blood-brain barrier and has no significant CNS effects. Using Pamineï¿½, therefore, genuinely minimizes the risk of significant central effects such as light-headedness or fatigue.





> quote: METHSCOPOLAMINE - ORAL(meth-sko-PALL-uh-meen) COMMON BRAND NAME(S): Pamine USES: This medication is used in combination with other drugs to treat peptic ulcers. OTHER USES: This drug may also be used for stomach/intestinal spasms, to decrease salivation, to reduce stomach acid secretion and may be used for other purposes as determined by your doctor. HOW TO USE: Take as directed, usually 1/2 hour before meals and at bedtime. The dosage will depend on your condition and your response to this drug. Your dosage may be adjusted by your doctor. Do not take bigger doses or more frequent doses than prescribed by your doctor. SIDE EFFECTS: Constipation, dry mouth, trouble urinating, nausea or dizziness may occur. If these effects persist or worsen, notify your doctor promptly. Unlikely to occur but report: increased pulse, diarrhea, eye pain, vision problems. In the unlikely event you have an allergic reaction to this drug, seek immediate medical attention. Symptoms of an allergic reaction include: rash, itching, swelling, dizziness, trouble breathing. If you notice other effects not listed above, contact your doctor or pharmacist. PRECAUTIONS: Before taking this drug tell your doctor your medical history, especially of: glaucoma, all eye problems, heart disease, enlarged prostate, stomach/intestinal disease, liver disease, kidney disease, high blood pressure, drug allergies. Because this drug decreases sweating, heat stroke or fever may occur if you are exposed to high temperatures. Since this medication may cause drowsiness, use caution engaging in activities requiring alertness such as driving or operating machinery. Elderly patients may be more sensitive to the effects of this drug. Use cautiously. This medication should be used only when clearly needed during pregnancy. Discuss the risks and benefits with your doctor. It is not known if this drug is excreted into breast milk. Consult your doctor before breast-feeding. DRUG INTERACTIONS: Tell your doctor of all nonprescription and prescription medication you use, especially of: antidepressants (tricyclic type), MAO inhibitors (e.g., phenelzine, linezolid, tranylcypromine, isocarboxazid, selegiline, furazolidone), quinidine, amantadine, antihistamines (e.g., diphenhydramine), other anticholinergics, potassium chloride supplements, antacids, absorbent-type anti-diarrhea medicines (e.g., kaolin-pectin), phenothiazines (e.g., chlorpromazine, promethazine). Do not start or stop any medicine without doctor or pharmacist approval.


My son has been on both Levsin and Bentyl. Bentyl worked well, but he didn't like the side effects. He feels that Pamine works just as well without making him tired. When he's having an especially bad time, he switches over to Donnatal. Donnatal works great for him, but it has a barbituate, so we don't like him to be on it too long.


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## bkitepilot (Dec 7, 2003)

JackieGian,Thank you for the info on the drug Pamine. The Levsin has been such a scary ordeal for me that I'm getting quite frightened of the antispasmotics. Even tho the Pamine doesn't cross the threshold and upset my CNS, it still has alot of the same side effects. Only I can get them all, I swear! My reaction with the Levsin started within 30 minutes after dissolving under the tongue... first the spasms would ease, in an hour I get a heavy chest, shortness of breath, palpatations and weakness. In 2 hours it turns to dilated pupils, inability to focus, no concentration, dizzy, faint feelings, confusion, etc.... In 5 hours it starts to subside then it starts all over again with the next 6 hr dosing. I took 1 0.125 Levsin at 8:30 last night to help with the night spasms and ended up vomiting anyway. This morning I had a terrible drug hangover, and right now I'm still not feeling well. I threw the Levsin in the garbage. It almost felt like throwing out my only salvation, but with my reaction I believe the drug would eventually kill me. I'm afraid of even going out into the public for fear of catching a virus or worst this deadly flu.... I have no defenses to fight at this time.Do you know of safe enzymes that might help with digestion in the mean time?Thanks in advance,Belinda


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## BackFire44 (Nov 19, 2003)

Definitely talk to your doctor about this, but I haven't had the same problems with Levsin. I do have super dry mouth at times, and when I first started the drug I had a little bit hard of a time with reading as I would find it hard to keep my eyes in focus totally, but after a few weeks my eyes adjusted to it, and I didn't have any more problems. Still have dry mouth, but all of the other symptoms are gone. Perhaps if you just stick with it for a bit, your body will adjust.


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## JackieGian (Mar 23, 2002)

Belinda,I don't blame you for being frightened. Those side effects sound pretty serious to me. You should definitely speak with your doctor about them. I know the Pamine lists the same side effects, but my son didn't experience any of the effects with Pamine as he did with Bentyl or Levsin. It may be worth a try.The only natural thing I can suggest would be probiotics, but they have limited effectiveness.


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## bkitepilot (Dec 7, 2003)

I threw the Levsin in the garbage and will tell my GI specialist... I've been taking it for 2 weeks 1 every 6 hrs during waking hrs as advised by my MD. Unfortunately the accumulation of the drug had taken over and I was in a stupor of "giving up or not caring about life" scared my mother who is here to help me for a few weeks.... I'm 40 and have been a nurse for 20 yrs.... you'd think I'd be bright enough to catch the bad effects sooner! I guess a nurse is like a mechanic...drives the worst body/car in town.It's been almost 24 hrs since my last dose and I'm still feeling effects. I wish my body could tolerate meds like most of you out there and could find peace with spasms and the big C.I hope that someday I will be well enough to return to work. I've been unable to work now for almost a year.


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## Guest (Dec 9, 2003)

god, your symptoms are so similar to mine. i too have visible spasms in my gut. its really bad. i'm at work right now but will write more. levsin is the only thing that has worked for relieving the gas buildup. peppermint - enteric coated can also work, but i found it gave me bad gerd. i got acummulative effects with levsin as well and could not tolerate it


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## bkitepilot (Dec 7, 2003)

joanofarc,Wow another with a live Anaconda in the gut!!! I thought I was alone in this crazy thing. I'm sorry to hear you had troubles with Levsin also. I'm on Miralax for the C and am hoping that will help with pushing EVERYTHING through and maybe resulting in fewer spasms. I started it the same time I did the Levsin, so I really don't know which helped release the gas. Guess I'll find out soon without the Levsin. My C was so bad that after I started the Miralax 2 weeks ago.... I passed barium that was still held up in my bowels since August. Scary huh? Hopefully I won't feel like such a poopy person anymore! LOL


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:Wow another with a live Anaconda in the gut!!! I


You obviously don't have IBS. The vomiting also suggests pseudo-obstruction.


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## bkitepilot (Dec 7, 2003)

Flux,What do you suggest I have? My GI stated I had IBS. My GP in Montana would love to cut me open AGAIN and hunt for the infamous adhesions. (which I have trillions of) But as we know adhesions are usually done forming 2 weeks after surgery which has been 10 yrs since my last abd cut about. These 'anaconda twists' started late this spring and I've had bowel problems since I was 19 (21 yrs ago)I'm desperate for answers since I'm so sick and have lost so much ground with my health. I've had another upper GI series in Aug and no obstruction has been found. Now 10 yrs ago I had 3 abd surgeries in 7 months.... female stuff and internal bleeding with gross amts of adhesions forming. The second surgery they went witch hunting and didn't fix my problem which was low and behold a partial obstruction around my colon by an adhesion. (after doing the correct tests to locate it, duh) Then the third surgery took out EVERYTHING female but my gallbladder... But my colon is super sluggish as I've mentioned before. I just don't understand my sm bowel doing the twisting.. until I vomit. Once it starts, it escalates until I'm empty, then I'm symptom free and no more twisting until I eat something that doesn't settle again.. My old family/surgical Doc in Montana believes I have an adhesion on the outside of my bowel connected of course to another part of my internal self and the gut flops over itself and causes a temp obstruction or maybe the mesentaric artery will lay across my sm bowel and causes it. He swore at first that it was pyloric stenosis.. but it wasn't. I am open for any help in finding out what is wrong with me.Sorry this was soooo long. Belinda


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote: I've had another upper GI series in Aug and no obstruction has been found.


I'm not impressed by upper GI.


> quote: But my colon is super sluggish


Why do you think it is sluggish?


> quote:My old family/surgical Doc in Montana believes I have an adhesion on the outside of my bowel connected of course to another part of my internal self and the gut flops over itself and causes a temp obstruction or maybe the


You should probably be evaluated with enteroclysis or helical CT to rule out physical obstruction/adhesions.


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## bkitepilot (Dec 7, 2003)

Flux, thanks for your reply.The sluggish colon has been 'told' to me by 2 GI specialists over a twenty yr period and I'm only repeating the quote. It would only seem to passify my eternal struggle with constipation. I was however treated with Librax in my later teen yrs for spastic colon.I'm not familiar with the tests that you wrote of: [enteroclysis or helical CT to rule out physical obstruction/adhesions]But will surely research them. I am calling the University Hospital in Birmingham AL this morning to schedule an appt as my GI in Chattanooga, TN has referred me per my request. Maybe with it being a medical school and research hosp, I may get a broader scope of tests. Seems when a doc gets a DX in his head, it's there to stay. My GI only tells me to increase the Miralax when I complain of the twisting and vomiting becoming more frequent. (encouraging huh?)The GP in MT is set ONLY on doing surgery... of course the chances of opening me up to release 'an' adhesion is like looking for a needle in a haystack.... since I have enough for the entire neighborhood. Besides the fact that once ALL the adhesions are released, I'm guaranteed a whole new bunch of them. I'm very discouraged and desperate for a real DX. I was thrilled that maybe I was done and it really was IBS-C as diagnosed, and I could treat a real problem without anymore invasive surgery. But as I KNOW my luck has it to add another beauty mark to belly!In my desperate readings of this wonderful message board, I haven't come across any except joan that had the visible gut twisting or anyone that suffered with vomiting due to the twisting.Have you?Discouraged but greatful for any opinion out there.Belinda


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:Maybe with it being a medical school and research hosp, I may get a broader scope of tests.


Can you go to Vanderbilt? If so, you want to see Howard R. Mertz, M.D., GI Clinic, 615-322-0128


> quote:In my desperate readings of this wonderful message board, I haven't come across any except joan that had the visible gut twisting or anyone that suffered with vomiting due to the twisting.


As you can see it exists, but is unusual. It can happen in pseudo-obstruction, but not in IBS. There is no easy way to know, however, if you what is causing it is a real obstruction or pseudo-obstruction or even both.


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## bkitepilot (Dec 7, 2003)

Flux,Unfortunately I am a resident of Alabama and have no insurance. I have been unable to work due to illness, therefore unable to carry insurance... what a paradox. The UAB supports people like me with programs for indigent uninsured. Chattanooga also has the programs but I would need a real address for 30 days in their county and state.Is there someone that you could recommend at UAB?I'm stuck between a rock and a very tight space. I have just moved to AL in June from CO so I don't know any 'GOOD' MD's.Thanks again for all you've helped with.Belinda


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## floridian2 (Dec 1, 2003)

> quote: Some Docs say that Levsin and Levbid are the exact same drug.... but Levbid is hyoscyamine hydrochloride and Levsin is Hyoscyamine sulfate.


If both are hyoscyamine, they should have very similar effects. The hydrochloride vs the sulfate salts may have somewhat different solubilities, absorption/potency, or stability.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:Is there someone that you could recommend at UAB?


I just remembered there is Jack DiPalma who is at University of South Alabama. Appointments - (251) 660-5555.


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## BackFire44 (Nov 19, 2003)

Seeing your colon spasm is fairly common with IBS -- on rare occassions, I have certainly been able to see it or at least to put my hand there and feel it myself. The vomiting, though, is not so common. I hope you find a good GI who can figure out what's going on. Sounds like at the least you have another problem in addition to IBS -- or perhaps you don't have IBS at all. I know how frustrated I have felt just with IBS, and can't imagine your own frustration. On the assumption that you have IBS and some other problem, I would try the strict IBS diets that are recommended here. They can't hurt, and may help your symptoms. You have to be absolutely strict, though. Cutting dairy down to once a day won't do it. Maybe it will make you feel a little better.Best of luck with the doctor. Let us know how it goes.


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## bkitepilot (Dec 7, 2003)

Thank you both for the good words.I will try to call on the specialist flux. I am also putting a call into my MT doc as I am getting a HUGE run-around at UAB (been on the phone for the past hour).... amazing how everyone knows nothing! If I have to return to MT to get medical help without delay... so be it. These people at UAB stated even with a 'quick' referral it will be 6 weeks at best. Hell I could be dead by then at the rate of my deterioration. (I'm pissed right now, can you tell)BackFire44 I've tried all the diets, I am so limited to what I can eat that its scary. Dairy is a no-no for me but I can tolerate grilled cheese sands on a good day. And in desperation for nutrients I drink a slimfast... everything has to be liquid or darn close for me to tolerate without upchucking. I even tried the Molocure with it's strict diet, but was unable to eat most of what they recommended and what I could eat was eliminated on their list. So I stopped that right quick. I've had times where 4 ounces of water has sat in my belly for half a day until my belly finally rebelled and threw it out. At this very moment in time, I'm so frustrated and scared that tears are flowing freely. I will probably opt to get on a plane and head to MT asap.I'm too young to be without a life and my children still could use a mom who's alive and kinda healthy.







B~


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## bkitepilot (Dec 7, 2003)

Well I've spent my day vomiting and having severe stomach twisting, on the phone going in circles with these docs... so purchased plane tickets instead and will be traveling to MT on Saturday and resuming care with a guaranteed string of docs early next week. At least I know I will be taken care of and no tests will be denied. I feel that I have run out of time as my weight is dangerously low.I'll keep you updated.Belinda


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:Seeing your colon spasm is fairly common with IBS


No, this *never* happens in IBS. Seeing intestinal activity is abnormal motility and occurs in obstruction/pseudo-obstruction.


> quote:The vomiting, though, is not so common


This is probably right. Vomting also suggests some obstruction is present.


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## Jhouston (Nov 9, 2003)

Someone please clarify ...seeing spasms. before I scare myself. I had an experience few yrs back...after 5 days of Flagyl I had explosive d and bloating and gas that I could see belly moving (made me think of doughboy) but to me that was gas moving around. lasted about 1 day, lessening over a few days. Is that what is meant by seeing spasms?


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## bkitepilot (Dec 7, 2003)

Thanks Flux,And yes my old fears that have always been clearly reminded by my MT doc is that I have an intermittant obstruction. I was just hoping that I wouldn't have to consider the surgery route again. But oh well just a few more routes on the old belly map.I'm not surprised that the gut can get itself in such a tangle with ALL the yards that are struggling for space.B~


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:..after 5 days of Flagyl I had explosive d and bloating and gas that I could see belly moving (made me think of doughboy) but to me that was gas moving around. lasted about 1 day, lessening over a few days.Is that what is meant by seeing spasms?


I believe so. But once in a while in a rare while is not the same thing as having it all the time.


> quote:I'm not surprised that the gut can get itself in such a tangle with ALL the yards that are struggling for space.


There must be something wrong for this to happen. It *cannot* happen in normal people or in IBS.


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## bkitepilot (Dec 7, 2003)

quote:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------I'm not surprised that the gut can get itself in such a tangle with ALL the yards that are struggling for space.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------There must be something wrong for this to happen. It cannot happen in normal people or in IBS.______________________________________________flux let me refrase that: MY GUT! I certainly wish I could be amongst the normal population. I have always had bad luck with belly problems resulting in surgery. I was just hoping that this time it would be IBS and treatable without the knife. I worry about joanofarc she seems to be having a few mirrored symptoms of mine.


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## MaritimeGirl (Feb 11, 2001)

I used Levsin for quite some time and didn't have all those problems, then I noticed it wasn't working as well, i took more, the pain still got worse and wouldn't go away. like you, i got really sick & run down, lost a lot of weight and all the other syptoms you described. turned out my gallbladder was failing and i was full of gallstones and had to be rushed in for surgery. You should go to your doctor and insist upon having an ultrasound to rule out gallstones.


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## Guest (Dec 11, 2003)

Flux,can you explain how pseudo-obstruction works? I know a lady who has it -belongs to my local ibs group. She sees a doctor at Stanford U. and he told her its pretty much severe severe ibs on the continuum of ibs. I guess that would be supposing that ibs was a motility problem. I jsut don't get it - seems like lots of docs really do consider ibs a motility problem when they make statements like that. Anyway, was IS pseudobstruction? And if you have it, what can you do about it? Get your colon taken out? Are there any drugs that work for it and what is the theory behind why it happens? Any info would be appreciated. -S Don't know if you've seen myother thread or not - perhaps you'r pissed at me.


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## bkitepilot (Dec 7, 2003)

MaritimeGirl I've had all the gall bladder series from HIDA scan to ultrasounds.. seems it's okay... crazy huh?


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## bkitepilot (Dec 7, 2003)

I'm Levsin free now for 2 whole days and am finally thinking clearly and side-effect free. Still have muscle weakness but has improved lots. Just wish I would. No vomiting today, but have had no solid food. Maybe I'll sleep soundly ALL night!







Oh what I wouldn't do for a pizza and a beer!!! 'drool'Like that'll happen.


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:can you explain how pseudo-obstruction works? I know a lady who has it -belongs to my local ibs group. She sees a doctor at Stanford U. and he told her its pretty much severe severe ibs on the continuum of ibs. I guess that would be supposing that ibs was a motility problem. I jsut don't get it - seems like lots of docs really do consider ibs a motility problem when they make statements like that.


IBS is technically defined by symptoms, not pathophysiology. In pseudo-obstruction there is an identifiable problem, namely, that the abnormal motility interferes with intestinal transit. However, it might be that some cases of pseudo-obstruction are being misdiagnosed as IBS, but it isn't really accurate to say that it is a "severe IBS".


> quote:Anyway, was IS pseudobstruction? And if you have it, what can you do about it? Get your colon taken out? Are there any drugs that work for it and what is the theory behind why it happens? Any info would be appreciated.


There are some prokinetic drugs such as erythromycin that also may help. Since the colon is not essential, it can be removed and in cases where the disease is limited to the colon, that does seem to help.


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## BackFire44 (Nov 19, 2003)

Glad to hear of the improvement, bkitepilot. Please keep us updated on what the new doc's say.Regarding the spasms in your colon, I must be missing something. IBS is also known as spastic colon. That means your colon spasms. In most cases, your colon spasms too fast, which either pushes things through too quickly (IBS-D), obstructs things from getting through (IBS-C), or both. I don't understand why you would say that being able to feel or see your colon spasm is not common with IBS. Of course, I don't know much about medicine, so maybe you can tell me, flux. What else could it be? I suppose gas may be part of the problem too.


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## bkitepilot (Dec 7, 2003)

My young GI doc in TN (who thinks my condition can be fixed by increased Miralax) talked to me about ERYC to increase intestinal motility. But only after an endoscopy could be done. Didn't get that far with him.


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## BackFire44 (Nov 19, 2003)

I always like young doctors -- it usually means they are up to date on the newest developments. Also, they went to school after med schools realized that treating patients is more than just giving them drugs and diagnosis. I always though the problem with IBS is increased mobility. Perhaps he thinks you don't have IBS? Or perhaps I don't know that much about IBS after all!


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

> quote:Regarding the spasms in your colon, I must be missing something. IBS is also known as spastic colon. That means your colon spasms. In most cases, your colon spasms too fast, which either pushes things through too quickly (IBS-D), obstructs things from getting through (IBS-C), or both. I don't understand why you would say that being able to feel or see your colon spasm is not common with IBS.


It was believed years ago that the symptoms in IBS were produced by abnormalities in motility and that's where the spastic colon term came from, but for the most part, studies failed to turn up these abnormalities consistently. Also, the term spasm is somewhat nebulous.


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## bkitepilot (Dec 7, 2003)

Yes I like the young docs too with all their newly learned skills. He's fresh out of med school. He dx me with IBS-C and his cure is Miralax, Levsin and maybe ERYC. The End.I know that what I have mimics an obstruction and I know that I have severe motility problems. Yes that's a fact, but what I'm being treated with is not helping me. I spent the day vomiting again, only it was from the RUQ pain not twisting. The two symtoms don't work at the same time... it's one or the other. (usually it's twisting tho) The RUQ pain is so severe that my eyes almost cross. I don't take any pain medication for this I just try to ride it out. Sometimes it takes a few days for it to subside. At least my bm's are normal today (shock).







My face-slap back to reality of obstruction was a post from out of nowhere (flux) stating it's sounds like I have a pseudo-obstruction. I am a geriatric nurse and my knowledge informs me of the dangers of bowel obstruction. My ignorance is IBS, especially when I am living inside the ill bubble. I'm so desperate to conquer and I soak in everything you guys have to say as if it's the salvation bible to my health. Well it is!My weight is now almost on the 100 pd mark. I'm a 40 yr old female, med build and 5'4".... so I've pushed into the envelope of anorexia and still dropping. Gross, huh?I'm trying to stay possitive and hope for a miracle when I go to Montana on Sat. I will abandon my poor worried husband for 6 wks to 3 months. He's from Venezuela and is quite ignorant on the world of illness and medicine. Such a cute worry-wart.My daughter (almost 19) lives in MT so she will surely brighten my hopes.Keep dropping your thoughts on my not so healthy, wonder really what it is, illness.Belinda


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## Guest (Dec 12, 2003)

Belinda,Good luck in Montana. I know this is a secondary worry and not trying to make things worse, but I am just still surprised that these docs aren't doing more for you. To let you drop that low in weight and throw up everyday it seems - that would erode your teeth and esophagus. Its just very dissappointing to me to hear of these things. I don't get how docs get to be docs and yet aren't really taking care of there patients. Does seem obvious you have more than ibs - esp. with your history. Ugh. I just hope you find help. Keep pluggin' away. -S


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## BackFire44 (Nov 19, 2003)

That's interesting that you say that, flux. Can you point me to a comprehensive up to date view of what causes IBS; or rather, what causes the symptoms of IBS? If the problem is not a spastic colon, why do anti-spasmatic medicines work? I continue to have IBS symptoms, my doctor has diagnosed me with IBS, and the regimen he is using is working to some degree. I can, though, at least feel, and occasionally see, the spasms. If not IBS, what is it?


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## flux (Dec 13, 1998)

A good source is http://www.conference-cast.com/ibs/Lecture...cfm?LectureID=2


> quote:If the problem is not a spastic colon, why do anti-spasmatic medicines work?


There are some explanations:1) They actually do nothing but it just appears that way. It's not always easy to tell if the drug it causing a positive effect or it just your taking of a drug or if it is just coincidental.2a) In many IBSers, the gut is more sensitive to its normal activity. These drugs reduce the normal activity and hence there is less to be sensitive too.2b) In some IBSers gut motility is altered but not abnormal. That is, consider an automobile that is in perfect working order. Nothing prevents one from driving 80 miles an hour down a local street. The car's motion is out of control with respect to the road it is on, but it is internally working OK. Alternatively, consider a car on the same road where the accelerator gets stuck, and you can't stop. Now it's the car is physically broken. 3) Remember that IBS are technically just symptoms, and it is possible that the underlying physiology in your case actually is a true motility disorder that gives IBS symptoms.


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## mikestujd (Nov 19, 2003)

I dont know about you but...I did not have D or C, but i could feel and hear my colon spasms. After severally tests all the doctors found was reflux. Thus, they concluded I had IBS (a usually fall back diagnosis). Thanks to this message group I learned of Levsin (Dicyclomine did nothing) and now i can get through a day spasm free. Colon spasms or simply a GI track that produces extreme gas might be the cause of my (or others) IBS. Colon spasms as a cause of IBS - in my opinion, for some of us, that is the case.


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## bkitepilot (Dec 7, 2003)

mikestujd... I'm soooo happy that Levsin works for you and many others. I'm surely dissapointed it didn't work for me. I hope I haven't scared anyone out of giving it a try for themselves. I am the odd one who has reactions to most medicines. I certainly have learned alot with this group. Thanks to all.Belinda


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## mikestujd (Nov 19, 2003)

Yeah i am very sorry that it isnt working for you. What makes this so frustrating is the fact that everyone's story is unique. I seem to have a mild a form of IBS and very specific symptoms. However it was enough to control my life. I wouldnt have found Levsin if it werent for this message board so I know that something is out there for all of us. Even though i feel better I will still continue to check this site to help out in any way i can for people who have the same symptoms.


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## bkitepilot (Dec 7, 2003)

Hey Susan,Yes I worry about my chompers too getting stripped with vomiting. My esophagus has some protection with the Protonix that I take everyday.It's no secret in the south (except to me) that the health care industry turns their backs on uninsured folks. The health world is a money-hungry industry. Ethics went out years ago. I do know that my old doc in MT trully does care and WILL move mountains to have me taken care of. He is my last and only hope. He was my doc in youth and also delivered one of my babies years ago.... oh and I worked with him for 11 yrs as a nurse. so I'm blessed to be allowed to lean on him now!







Of course nothing is for free!


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## Guest (Dec 13, 2003)

Belinda - i'm glad you have that doc. I hope you find some answers/help this trip out.Mikestujd - I seem to have your situation too. Not really that C or D but lots of spasms. Did you get a lot of pressure and pulling sensations in spots? Did you get upper abdominal problems, near diaphragm problems too? Just curious - I also found relief with Levsin but it gave me a curious hoarseness and pressure in my throat. Plus the dry mouth was terrible. I do think spasms accompany some forms of "ibs".


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## mikestujd (Nov 19, 2003)

I also have GERDS which I take Protonix for. I have a feeling food gets pushed back into my esoph where a major colonic nerve rests and that stimulates my colon. My body probably thinks I am constantly eating. I dont really feel a lot of pressure anymore (use to) really its just gas bubbles moving around. The only pressure you could say I feel is the urge to pass gas. With Levsin I feel like I can pass it with greater ease. I too get the dry mouth and dry throat. Makes it though to sing to songs when I drive. But im not going to let IBS stop me from looking like an idiot in public. Anyway, where was I... oh, yeah so no D or C. The spasms are frustrating though arent they? People say just ignore them but it really isnt that easy. But yes I am having upper problems, for instance when I did my barium swallow I still had food in my stomach from 15 hours previous.


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## Guest (Dec 15, 2003)

Mikestujd,How does the Protonix work? I've several times burped up or puked up food that I ate hours ago. God, this is all sounding bad, when I talk about it!I may go back on Levsin. Yall are making me jealous with all the talk of farting.


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## bkitepilot (Dec 7, 2003)

joanofarc,Wow you still seem to follow my symptoms of vomiting and twisting, especially with undigested food from several hrs prior.







I was visiting with my friend last night who is a Doc and she's quite stumped about my association with RUQ pain and the twisting w/vomiting.... etc. She's quite anxious to hear how my appt goes today in Billings, MT with yet another GI. She also feels it's a pseudo-obstruction of some kind.Yesterday I had a good day... meaning I could eat without symptoms... a first in over 3 weeks! Did I ever enjoy food!!! I'm so hungry and EVERYTHING smells and looks good to me. You would have thought I was a starving junk-yard dog yesterday.


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## Guest (Dec 17, 2003)

thats great about your great day - i know how that feels! yeah it does seem similar. the difference though it that i don't seem that constipated. and i do see things i eat in my bowel the next day. i don't know what i have. i do wonder if its a pseudo-obstruction though, or maybe just spasms, or possibly sibo, or even a hernia and the bowel gets trapped up there. of all these things, it feel most like a hernia/obstruction.i'm really excited you are looking into your situation. its so great. i just can't believe those doctors of yours though. to let you get so skinny. if there is ANY chance to sue for malpractice, i'd go for it. if you are anemic, can't work etc. document this. i just think this is outrageous. good luck.


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## bkitepilot (Dec 7, 2003)

Susan,I would suppose my constipation comes from the gut not working properly. I don't however pass undigested food in my stool. I did pass the barium from 3 months of sitting in there. This GI wasn't surprised or concerned about that. Hmmmm.I can't say that I'm constipated now with the use of Miralax. I use it when I need it now, it work wonderful.When I was taking Librax this last summer, it completely stopped me up from slowing down the peristalsis in my colon.


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## mikestujd (Nov 19, 2003)

ProtonixIt is an acid inhibitor. In a normal person a strong muscle at the end of the esoph and top of the stomach closes to keep food in your stomach. After years of eating "bad" food and getting heartburn the acid in my stomach damaged that muscle. So if you were to x-ray my stomach after eating and you pushed on my stomach you would see food going back up into my esoph. That would not happen in a normal person. The protonix limits the acid in my stomach so I dont get further damage and I never feel heartburn. Hopefully the muscle will heal.


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