# in a state of worry, please someone relate to me or put my mind at ease.



## katiebabe (May 30, 2011)

Hi,I am in such a state of worry I feel physically sick. I've had these symptoms now for a year to the day this weekend. All my tummy symptoms have been from the onset of a bug and the doctor has always told me 'post infectious ibs' But my back pain only started six months later in november. The pain is like a burning sensation, all over but mainly middle to upper back.As soon as it started I told the gastroenterologist and he did an mri telling me afterwards that the scan was fine and that he didn't know what the pain was.I said it must be linked to all my tummy issues-severe bloating, discomfort-feel like I'm full of fizzy pop- sore inflamed if I'm slouched over-spasms-cramps-bowel changes, burping all the time,constant trapped wind etc etc.But he said he was sure it was not linked as back pain with ibs is always lower back, is this true?Anyway this pain has got worse-it burns everyday-the more i try to do the worse it gets. It even gets bad by being sat upright in a chair etc I need to lay back on sofa the only way it goes off is through resting and laying back or sleeping.Anyway my tummy and back have just been terrible recently and I feel all petrified again. This pain is not normal.My gastro even sent me to see a phychiatirst who did an assesment on me for the back pain but told me there was nothing phycological going on.All my gastro cud say was that people get unexplained pain. And I'm not seeing him for another 6weeks. I feel like he's not doing anything for me.Has anyone been through anything similar?Please let me knowThankyou, k x


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## baz22p (Dec 1, 2008)

Hi,Back pain is not an issue for me, but I do sympathise/associate with you as I get unexplained chest pains which my Doctor says are IBS related.Have you tried anti-spasmodic pain-killers? Remember that IBS is a malfunction of the gut/digestive tract, and this starts from the throat and goes to the bum! Therefore, any part between, or associated parts, may be affected. It maybe that lower back pain is more common, but it would obviously help you to isolate the cause. Have you considered a second opinion from a healthcare professional?You may find that gentle, regular exercise helps motility and will keep you supple.Maybe the back problem is stress related, and further worry about it exacerbates the issue. If so, cognitive behavioural therapy may help.Good Luck!Baz


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## faze action (Aug 6, 2009)

Might want to ask your doc about your gallbladder... that can cause pain in upper back (shoulder-blade area). I had a co-worker who had gallbladder problems and back pain was one of them.http://www.webmd.com/digestive-disorders/tc/gallstones-topic-overview


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

Hon getting all anxious isn't helping you.. obviously.. so please try to calm down. Many many of us here deal with pain all the time as well.. so it is NOT all that unusual, ok????? So try to relax. An MRI doesn't necessarily rule out a bad Gall Bladder.. a Hidascan will test it's function. So if you have any pain in the upper right shoulder or shoulder blade area (and especially if it is accompanied by vomitting) for sure I would want them to check out the function of the Gall Bladder. So ask your specialists about that. And if you do not like your Dr's.. go to new ones.Info about GB testing:http://www.webmd.com/digestive-disorders/tests-diagnose-gallbladder-problemsOtherwise, if your GB is fine.... you may need to just accept that you have some pain with your IBS. And stop worrying about what is causing it and start trying to manage it. After an IBS diagnosis is reached.. it is quite normal for Dr's to be of little or no help. As WE need to find out what helps us through trial and error. ALL of us are different so the Dr can't really tell us what will help us. WE need to do the trial-ing and error-inig ourselves hon... no one else can do it for us. It just isn't the nature of IBS to have a simple quick fix.. so I would stop trying to expect that.Most people take awhile to go through *every* combination of supplements, diet changes, medications, holistic measures, behavioral & psychologial changes etc.... I would think no one could accomplish ALL of that in a year's time. Probiotics alone (and perhaps several different kinds) EACH need at least several weeks worth of a try and also tried with other treatment measures.Ultimately .. most people find a group of several treatments working together is what helps them best.I seriously doubt anything super lethal is going on... so really try to tone down your anxiety. And get going perhaps on trying to get any GB problems ruled out and then continue with the trial & error...


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## Bettsann (Mar 28, 2012)

There are times when I can start to do certain tasks (can be ANYthing) and suddenly my back with react in the same way that you described, Katie. Then (IMO) pain responses get to be 'habitual' too. I know the kind of back pain I get is a mental thing with me... Our minds are SO powerful and they can create ANY kind of a situation.I think whoever the community mgr was that posted above --that is SUCH a great post...it comforted me today!







I think its a great idea that you get tested for possible gall bladder problems. All will eventually be well, Katie. Just know people DO understand...and just because a symptom is mentally caused -- we know that you STILL feel the full affect. I am new to this site but feel so much better reading the posts, because you KNOW you are not alone in all the strange and weird ways you may feel! Hang in there!


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## katiebabe (May 30, 2011)

Thankyou all for your replies they mean a lot.Baz, hi, thanku for ur kind words of ease  I have just finished a course of CBT, the therapist was lovely but she admitted the whole way through that my emotions and distress were due to my pain and not the other way around, so until my pain is managed my anxiety will continue. I find it so hard not to get down and upset with the pains have been so persistant for a year day in day out. Yes I have tried antispasmodics, but they didn't seem to make a difference. I do hope your chest pains improve all the best xFaze- thankyou for the gallbladder info, the back pain is never really in a secific spot jus generally all over the mid to upper back. I am going to ask about it though and I will push for a second opinion. Thanku for the link xBQ- thanks for the info- what does mris show?the burning isn't specifically in the right shoulder its just genrerally all over the mid to higher back like chesty pains. I know lots of people are in pain daily, but its just worrying wen its not just like aches or pains it gets very severe and prevents me from doing much throughout the day. Its like a viscious circle- you get down becoz ur so sick of the pain then this dosent help matters but u can't just go out and do what u want becoz the pain prevents you. Its just getting me really down now. I did CBT and my therapist even said I wasn't depressedxx


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## lakegirl815 (Apr 9, 2012)

katiebabe said:


> Thankyou all for your replies they mean a lot.Baz, hi, thanku for ur kind words of ease  I have just finished a course of CBT, the therapist was lovely but she admitted the whole way through that my emotions and distress were due to my pain and not the other way around, so until my pain is managed my anxiety will continue. I find it so hard not to get down and upset with the pains have been so persistant for a year day in day out. Yes I have tried antispasmodics, but they didn't seem to make a difference. I do hope your chest pains improve all the best xFaze- thankyou for the gallbladder info, the back pain is never really in a secific spot jus generally all over the mid to upper back. I am going to ask about it though and I will push for a second opinion. Thanku for the link xBQ- thanks for the info- what does mris show?the burning isn't specifically in the right shoulder its just genrerally all over the mid to higher back like chesty pains. I know lots of people are in pain daily, but its just worrying wen its not just like aches or pains it gets very severe and prevents me from doing much throughout the day. Its like a viscious circle- you get down becoz ur so sick of the pain then this dosent help matters but u can't just go out and do what u want becoz the pain prevents you. Its just getting me really down now. I did CBT and my therapist even said I wasn't depressedxx


 Dear katie-I would have to agree w/ BQ.... CALM DOWN!


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## lakegirl815 (Apr 9, 2012)

katiebabe said:


> Thankyou all for your replies they mean a lot.Baz, hi, thanku for ur kind words of ease  I have just finished a course of CBT, the therapist was lovely but she admitted the whole way through that my emotions and distress were due to my pain and not the other way around, so until my pain is managed my anxiety will continue. I find it so hard not to get down and upset with the pains have been so persistant for a year day in day out. Yes I have tried antispasmodics, but they didn't seem to make a difference. I do hope your chest pains improve all the best xFaze- thankyou for the gallbladder info, the back pain is never really in a secific spot jus generally all over the mid to upper back. I am going to ask about it though and I will push for a second opinion. Thanku for the link xBQ- thanks for the info- what does mris show?the burning isn't specifically in the right shoulder its just genrerally all over the mid to higher back like chesty pains. I know lots of people are in pain daily, but its just worrying wen its not just like aches or pains it gets very severe and prevents me from doing much throughout the day. Its like a viscious circle- you get down becoz ur so sick of the pain then this dosent help matters but u can't just go out and do what u want becoz the pain prevents you. Its just getting me really down now. I did CBT and my therapist even said I wasn't depressedxx


Dear Katie- I would have to agree w/ BQ... Calm Down!! I know its so easy for us to get caught up in the anxiety of everything we deal with daily, but you have to look at things calmly and clearly. Yes, I agree you should rule out your gall bladder first and foremost. My suggestion is to get to a CHIROPRACTOR (try to ask around for referrals) Doesn't it make sense that since our mid section is always in turmoil and knotted up and then we contort our bodies throughout the day to find a comfortable postion- wouldn't it make sense that our muscles and bones are getting contorted as well? I work in the health feild and professionally speaking I would seek out chiropractic care. Sit down with them and discuss what's happening with your body, show the mri to them and they will consult with you. I don't know where I would be today if it weren't for my chiropratic doctors. I get a lot of back pain: lower, mid and upper. They are doctors too and this is what they specialize in. I think it only makes sense to look into this modality for relief. Good luck.


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## LuSmith (Dec 15, 2011)

I get pain around my upper back, but this is due to my GERD/acid reflux. Are you sure it's not that? It can really hurt at times and can cause a real burning pain! I'll advise on getting your gallbladder checked to rule out anything, but could it be something like that?


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## emjane100 (Apr 4, 2012)

Hi Katie...i know this post is a little late, but i get the exact same pain as you but the reason i came to your post was because i have severe bloating (for about a month now but been ill with IBS for 4 months starting with stomach gurgling). Bloating is very scary, i am sitting at work and feel like i need to lay down, i am so uncomfortable. Also the other thing you said about feeling like you are full of fizzy pop, i have this exact same thing and yet this is one thing ive not seen anyone else has and never know how to describe it - its like my stomach is full of gravel and just very uncomfortable. i am going to see a private gastroentologist tomorrow, since my doctor says IBS and need to live with it, mebeverine didnt seem to work. the mid to upper back pain i have always puzzled me as i have acid reflux symptoms but always thought i should have pain in my chest but i do not - only in the back. although i do get pressure in my chest. I am wondering if the gravel feeling is stomach acid, or lack of?? if anyone knows? my symptoms started in December 2011 and ongoing.....;(


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## katiebabe (May 30, 2011)

Thanks for all your replies, does anyone know how I get email notifications of post replies?Bettsam- thankyou so much for your post I am so sorry I did not see is the last time I responded.I am so glad you posted as I do think my back problems may be phycological too. The thing is if that's true its so scary becoz I have zero control over any of it.. Like it is a true illness,do you know what I mean? I went to the doctors yday as my gastro app is ages away and this new pain in my back 'feels like severe trapped wind like someones sitting on my upper back' has been really bothering me, I actually thought I must have an infection of its must be my gallbladder. Well the doc took my blood preassure etc and explained how he things the pain is nerve 'neuropathic' the same as the burning. He said he thinks my body is giving me a hard time! When I asked if he had seen many cases like mine he said yes but mine is extreme.Have you tried any medication for your pain? Mines daily and so I'm leading towards trying anything even if it does have a million side effects!! Please do let me know how you get on. Also do you have tummy problems too?Lusmith- thanks for your reply  I did ask doc about acid reflux but he said I wud feel pain in my chest too and I dont, do you feel pain in ur chest?what's the back pain like?EmjaneHello  thanks for ur post, I'm glad we can relate to each other its nice to know your not alone. All the best with the gastroenterologist, do let me know how you get on. It is not easy with doctors, they do say ibs- on your bike!! I think the fact is - any tummy issues that they don't know the cause of they jus say ibs- and they don't know a great deal about it!!especially is its extreme. There are no help or support groups where I live. Good luck xLakegirlThankyou for ur reply. Is a chripracter like a physio? As I am seeing a physio and they tell me my tummy and back is in spasm. What is ur back like and how did they help you. Are you on medication? That is very true to imagine that obvs if our tummys are in turmoil then our backs are going to show effects of this too... It baffles me why doctors don't seem to think this though and hav kind of said they think my back neuropathic pain, what does that even mean? How can we control it? All the best, kate Xxx


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## TVgirl (Sep 16, 2009)

I would also look into urinary: have urinalysis done and kidney function tests.


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## katiebabe (May 30, 2011)

Thanks tv girl, I've had lots of urine samples but I will mention it x


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## Cheryl1967 (Apr 19, 2012)

Hi Katiebabe, the muscle pain/tightness yu are feeling near your shoulder blades is a direct result of elevated levels of acetylcholine, the neurotransmitter that is elevated in ppl with IBS this is also responsible for the violent spasms you are having in your abdomen. A couple of years ago (before the IBS) I was using Benedryl for allergies for approximately 3 months but when I stopped taking it I suffered what is known as "cholinergic rebound" because believe it or not Benadryl is an anticholinergic...I researched on the internet what was happening and discovered that acetylcholine effect the vagus nerve so I checked into muscles (besides the colon) that are effected by this vagus nerve and the ones located in your back just between your shoulder blades are some as well as the sides of the neck and parts of the ear. The "crunching" sensation in those back muscles was terrible....so when the IBS started I recognized the elevated acetylcholine levels right away...I also have the stiff muscles in my back near my shoulder blades....increased sweating and excessively oily skin are other things that is regulated by acetylcholine. Sometimes when the levels are really high it can cause your voice to be raspy as well. You just ave to do some research on acetylcholine and muscles effected by the vagus nerve...hope this was of some help to you =)


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## katiebabe (May 30, 2011)

hi cheryl, thankyou very much for sharing that with me as I have never heard the condition before. I will be sure to do some research into it. Can I ask if anything has improved your symptoms? k x


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## Cheryl1967 (Apr 19, 2012)

I have been using enteric coated peppermint oil capsules 3X a day on an empty stomach (as recommended) and I also take a probiotic and recently got into Kifir grains =) I also drink a lot of chamomile tea and if I have excessive bloating/gas I drink ginger tea as well


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## AmericanPatriot (Dec 6, 2009)

katiebabe said:


> All my gastro cud say was that people get unexplained pain. And I'm not seeing him for another 6weeks. I feel like he's not doing anything for me.


Sounds like it's time for you to get a new doctor. No patient wants a doctor who refuses to acknowledge the stress that the pain causes in their life. If your doctor ever tries to minimize your concerns, and tries to be lazy and say "people get unexplained pains" to get you out of his office faster, you need to move on, and perhaps write to your state medical licensing board and let them know that your doctor isn't doing all he can to help his patient. The fact that he sent you to a psychiatrist deeply maddens me, because at that point he's essentially telling you that it's "all in your head" and suggesting that you're having "hysterical pains" (also called somatization disorder) i.e. pains that aren't real, and obviously you know that what you're experiencing is definitely real.As for your symptoms, I certainly agree that the symptoms you're dealing with are not normal. It sounds to me like it may be an irregularity with your gut flora or something else throwing your digestive system out of balance due to the infection.There is perhaps a possibility that you may even be experiencing a recurrence of your infection, like leftover effects. For example, when you get a cold, you get that tingly feeling in your throat for quite a while after you get over the cold (post-infectious cough). Obviously that's a bit different but maybe it's similar? Has your doctor done any type of GI test?I hope you get to feeling better. We're all here for you.


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## katiebabe (May 30, 2011)

Hi amerianpatriot, thankyou for such a nice caring reply  it is greatly appreciated.You are right, the whole thing maddens me too,I never used to even go to the doctors before this, under no circumstance is any of the pain in my head- I wish it was it wud be easier!!Well my gastro has finally 'last week' said he is sending me for another opinion, I am really hoping this new doctor can help. As my symptoms are just way to extreme to be able to get on with life- if I do very little each day I'm okay- but you can't live that way not when your a young girl.Money is a big concern.So I am awaiting an app. I gave him a list of things I didn't think he has checked for.. Like sibo-bacterial overgrowth, fructose hydrogen test etc. He is finally sending me to get the fructose test as I have never had the breath test.I have had- edoscopy- which they said there was a large amount of stained bile.Colonscopy of the sigmond colon-cudnt get further as was very painful.Mri- 3, one to look at bowel- one to look at blood vessels and the third to look at my back.Lots of blood and stool tests. And a few xrays oh and one ultrasound that they said they found an abnormality with my small bowel and lots of gas and faceas in the colon but the significance was unclear.As for the phychiatrist he is sending me to see a health phcologist and wants to put me on antidepressants. My bf explained to him that I amd not a depressive person but these symptoms for this long wud bring anyone down, thing is I can't imagine they are going to work as I'm upset and distressed over my symptoms and antidepressents arnt going to take them away.Thanks again for ur reply,kate x


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

But the antidepressants may help you weather this.... Hey if I were you I would take whatever help they are offering.


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## katiebabe (May 30, 2011)

Bq- yep ur right, and I'm going to take them. At the minute I'm taking peppermint oil and calcium tablets and on soya egg and milk free diet requested by a dietician, drinking zinc sulphur silver and origan grape- requested by a homopathic doctor(to kill the bacterial infection in my gut) I will try anything, I just think they are barking up the wrong tree, x


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## BQ (May 22, 2000)

They might be but you but may feel a bit better with the antidepressant while they are trying to find the right tree.. well that is my hope anyway. Hang in there.


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## katiebabe (May 30, 2011)

Thanks bq x


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## screeb (Jul 25, 2001)

There are two concepts that explain the upper back pain. The vascular waterfall and the venous cage principle. Basically, during exhalation, there is a blockage between the inferior vena cavae and the hepatic veins. The venous blood flows from the liver via an alternative channel (the musculophrenic vein) to the IVC above the blockage. This flow is explained by the rib cage flow occuring from high pressure to low pressure. The physics of a vascular waterfall with a noncollapsed and collapsed vessel, increases the upstream pressure at the liver as the blockage opens and the increased recoil of the venous discharge of the liver, causes a stretch of the IVC related to increased RAP (right atrial pressure) wave reflection. This stretch is the upper back pain IMO.


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## katiebabe (May 30, 2011)

Screeb, all sounds very technical I'm a tad lost! if this is the problem, how do I go about treating it ? K


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## screeb (Jul 25, 2001)

The pain is actually a good thing because it puts off a hormone (ANP) that causes/speeds up, gastric emptying.


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