# massage therapy?



## M&M (Jan 20, 2002)

hi all! i have been posting on the IBS board for a while, but wanted to start posting here also. i have IBS, NMH (neurally mediated hypotension), and i we are investigating CFS or FM. i am being sent to a neurologist just to make sure it is NMH and will be talking to her about my other symptoms. i have really learned a lot on the IBS board, and i look forward to learning a lot here. one question i have, is that i have been thinking about going to a massage therapist. i have a friend that goes to a massage therapist/reflexologist and she says it helps her. any specific specialty i should look for in a massage therapist? thanks a lot!~mrs. mason


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## weener (Aug 15, 2000)

Mrsmason, I'm an advocate for massage therapy. I've been using massage therapy for over 15 years. It is the one type of therapy that I find really helps my fm. I tried shiatsu (which is good too), but focuses on energy points (chakras) and I tried reflexology, but I always come back to massage. I'd even had a short experience with acupuncture and reiki. I think you will find what helps you best by experimenting with different therapies. Most the massage therapist that I've been to have done a version of Swedish massage. The key is that it shouldn't hurt and if it does, you have to tell them. I like deep massages otherwise I wouldn't feel it, but most people don't like it that deep. When you find someone you will probably have to fill out a medical history, so I would mention the possibility of fm and see if they have any fm patients. Most of them do now, because it seems there are a lot of people with fm. You can always book a l/2 hr appt. and see how you like it and how you feel the next day. If you like it then you can always go back for l hr. appt. Try to fit in a warm epsom bath that night too. I was told that it releases toxins. My massage therapist tends to work on my trouble spots (lower back, back, neck, shoulders) others may do a body (head to toe) massage. Both are equally nice. I am sure you will enjoy it. I find touching is very healing.


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## Susan Purry (Nov 6, 2001)

Hi MrsMason. I have NMH too. What treatment do you take for it? Have you had the tilt-table test? If so, what was it like?Sorry I don't have anything to add on massage therapy at this point.


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## M&M (Jan 20, 2002)

hey susan. i am not currently on any treatment for my NMH. i had a test that was not the tilt table test, but a close second. the dr had me lay down, sit up, and stand up for 5-10 minutes each, and took my blood pressure and pulse in each position. i am seeing a neurologist in may however, just to make sure, because i really feel like the dr who gave me that test was a dud.







my first guess is that i will be sent for the tilt table test, unless the neurologist is happy with what has already been done. i am also keeping my own log of my blood pressure and pulse just to take with me. here is what i know about the tilt table test:they strap you to a table and tilt it to a 70 degree angle (almost standing straight up) and you stay there for 45 minutes. every 2-3 minutes you are asked to describe your symptoms, and of course blood pressure and pulse are monitored. i believe you are considered to have an "abnormal" diagnosis if your blood pressure drops 20 mmHg or more on both systolic and diastolic. i have also heard that most people feel ill for a couple of days after the test. which i definitely believe. so, if i may ask what are some of your symptoms with NMH? just curious, as i have never talked to anyone else that has that, which makes me feel very much like the "odd man out". ~mrs. mason


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## Susan Purry (Nov 6, 2001)

Hi Mrs Mason. I have not had the tilt-table test as I have been too unwell to travel to hospital to have it done. I did the 24 hour urinary sodium analysis which determined that I was excreting more sodium (salt, which helps maintain blood volume by causing the body to hold onto more water, and therefore helps maintain blood pressure), so my rheumatologist put me on high dose salt tablets. Which worked great for a while, but then didn't. His response to this was that the salt tablets just gave me a placebo response and I shouldn't take them any longer.







And he says he wont' treat me until I 'make the commitment' to go to hospital for the tilt-table test (conveniently ignoring that I am unable to go, not unwilling to go).







Anyway, sorry for the mini rant. My symptoms of NMH are: not being able to stand up still for more than a couple of minutes before I get a fast heart rate and loss of vision. Loss of vision on standing from sitting or lying position. Sometimes this leads to fainting (loss of consciousness). I also get this way when I am overheated (in the summer, in the shower). I also shake and sweat. I was just reading an article about a possible alternative to the tilt-table test. It's here: http://listserv.nodak.edu/scripts/wa.exe?A...co-cure&P=R1103 It's called: Faint hope of rescue"Can a team of physicists stop victims being strapped to a torture table?This is not a melodrama, says Michael Brooks, but a medical drama" and appeared in the UK's Guardian newspaper on Thursday January 27, 2000I posted a thread about NMH & salt treatment a while back. It's here: http://www.ibsgroup.org/cgi-local/ubbcgi/u...f=9&t=000937&p= Here is an article on massage therapy for you: http://listserv.nodak.edu/scripts/wa.exe?A...ure&F=&S=&P=865 It's called Book Review:THERAPEUTIC MASSAGE: A SCIENTIFIC APPROACH. Ross Turchaninov, MD [Editedby K. Gray]. Phoenix, AZ, Aesculapius Books, 2000, 342 pages, $35.00.Review by Alison L. DiPace, CMT, Martinez, CA 94553 USAJournal of Musculoskeletal Pain, Vol. 9(1) 2001, pp. 138-139


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## Susan Purry (Nov 6, 2001)

MrsMason, I don't know if you subscribe to the Co-Cure email list? Just incase you don't, here's an item you might find interesting: Journal of Clinical Rheumatology 2002; 8: 72-76Field, T., Diego, M., Cullen, C., Hernandez-Reif, M., Sunshine, W., Douglas, S.Touch Research Institutes (TF, MD, CC, MH-R, WS), University of Miami School ofMedicine, Miami, Florida; Children's Hospital of Philadelphia (SD),Philadelphia, Pennsylvania."*Massage therapy has been observed to be helpful in some patients withfibromyalgia. This study was designed to examine the effects of massage therapyversus relaxation therapy on sleep, substance P, and pain in fibromyalgiapatients.* Twenty-four adult fibromyalgia patients were assigned randomly to amassage therapy or relaxation therapy group. They recieved 30-minute treatmentstwice weekly for 5 weeks. Both groups showed a decrease in anxiety anddepressed mood immediately after the first and last therapy sessions. However,across the course of the study,* only the massage therapy group reported anincrease in the number of sleep hours and a decrease in their sleep movements.In addition, substance P levels decreased,* and the patients' physiciansassigned lower disease and pain ratings and rated fewer tender points in themassage therapy group."Can anybody enlighten me as to what 'Substance P' is?







Ok, I found this out:


> quote:Substance P lowers the threshold of synaptic excitability, permitting the unmasking of normally silent interspinal synapses and the sensitization of second order spinal neurons (66) . An increased production of neurotransmitters within the spinal cord may be detected as increased levels in cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) (67) . Animal models of hyperalgesia and hypoalgesia, have implicated substance P as a major etiological factor in central sensitization. There are 2 definitive studies that have shown a 3 fold increase of substance P in the CSF of fibromyalgia patients compared to controls


from http://www.myalgia.com/Scientific%20basis.htm


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## Guest (Apr 25, 2002)

A word of caution: If you have IBS or fibromyalgia... you are sensitive. Having a deep tissue massage can initially cause you problems. I had two horrific vaso-vegal reactions to the first one that I ever had. Ask the massage therapist to take it easy on you the first time around.


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## M&M (Jan 20, 2002)

thanks for the info susan. i hope you got rested the past few days! thanks for the word of caution on the deep tissue massage - that is a good point. fortunately my therapist is very astute and mentioned that he didn't want to start me off on deep tissue massage. one reason he stated is that it can initially cause more pain than it reduces, but the point you mentioned is very good to remember because i tend to have fainting spells a lot anyway. thanks for the word of caution!!~mrs. mason


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## Guest (Apr 26, 2002)

You're very welcome MrsMason.... best wishes to you.


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## Susan Purry (Nov 6, 2001)

Another article on massage & Fibromyalgia. It was posted to the Co-Cure email list:


> quote:Massage Helps FibromyalgiaPeople Sleep Better After Massage, Which Reduces Painby Jeanie Davis, WebMD Medical News Reviewed by Michael Smith, M.D.May 9, 2002 -- Many fibromyalgia symptoms -- pain, stiffness, fatigue,depression -- can be relieved with massage therapy. Now, researchers saythey understand why. Massage alters the sleep pattern, which reduces levelsof the chemical messenger for pain.Read the article at http://my.webmd.com/content/article/1673.50941


From the WebMD article:


> quoterevious studies have shown that exercise, stretching, relaxation therapy, and massage therapy can provide relief for people with fibromyalgia. Massage therapy has also been shown to reduce pain, stiffness, fatigue, and sleeping difficulties. But researchers have not known exactly what massage does to provide relief. In this five-week study, 20 adults with fibromyalgia received either massage therapy or relaxation therapy twice weekly. The massage was a combination of several types, including Swedish, Shiatsu, and Trager, all using moderate pressure. People in the other group went to progressive muscle relaxation sessions. "Both groups showed a decrease in anxiety and depressed mood immediately after the first and last therapy sessions," writes Field. The big difference showed up in their sleep, she adds. Only the massage therapy group reported an increase in hours of sleep and a decrease in their sleep movements, as well as lower levels of the chemical messenger for pain -- called "substance P." http://my.webmd.com/content/article/1673.50941


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## M&M (Jan 20, 2002)

Thanks for posting that Susan. I knew massage definitely helped, but I think the more research they do about it the more accepted it will become. Once it gains widespread acceptance insurance companies may start to treat it differently too! Very interesting article.~Mrs. Mason


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## Karen A. (Apr 12, 2002)

Mrs. Mason, I used to work with many message therapist in the salon I worked in and I am a firm believer in message therapy. It can help soooo many ailments and just make you feel so darn good. I wouldn't be suprised if it helps IBS too. Sorry to hear about this new problem and will pray for you. Karen


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## TroubledHeart (Apr 8, 2002)

Any questions I should ask or things I should look for when finding a massage therapist...Are we talking about massage parlors...lol...or spas...?? What kind of places do this...and what kind of accreditation should I look for??I've been thinking about this therapy for awhile...My body and muscles are very sensitive to touch and pressure...but I too like the deep massages but they just hurt more than they are worth...well at least when my husband did them...lmao...maybe that was the problem


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## Susan Purry (Nov 6, 2001)

Hi TroubledHeart - just a thought. Perhaps you could print off the last article I posted the link too - which mentions the different types of massage and the amount of pressure used - and ask the places you make enquiries at if they do that, and maybe tell them you have Fibro too? I was wondering about where someone could get some appropriate massage too! Maybe a health spa/centre/place?


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## M&M (Jan 20, 2002)

Look for credentials like "Lisenced Physical Therapist" or "Licensed Physical Therapist Assistant" also look for "Certified Massage Therapist", "Licensed Massage Therapist", and the like. The more letters after their name - the better lol. You might try looking in your local Yellow Pages. In my area at least, there are a lot of places that offer "fibromyalgia relief". Like Susan mentioned, definitely tell them you have fibro, that will effect the type of massage you receive. Personally I have found the "myofascial release" to be very soothing, and reduce pain. But, any reputable massage therapist will help you make the right choice for you! I hope you enjoy your massage!~Mrs. Mason







I forgot to add this:A spa type place is where I was going for my massage. They offer all kinds of massage, body wraps, facials, all that good stuff. Personally, I would avoid the "massage parlors" LOL...but hey, that's just me


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## carolauren (Mar 14, 2002)

Physical therapists generally get little training in massage. You want to look for therapeutic massage (as opposed to the massage parlor kind), and they should be licensed either by their municipality or their state (some states don't have state licensure). Beyond that, having taken the National Certification Exam is a good sign, as is being a member of one of the professional organizations such as the AMTA (American Massage Therapy Association). The AMTA has a website with a therapist locator service; I would highly recommend taking a look and seeing if there is someone in your area.Finally, when you call a therapist, ask them about the type of massage they do and if they have any experience working with clients with fibromyalgia.Good MT's can be found in private solo or group practices, wellness centers, spas, chiropractors' offices, health clubs, salons, and some HMO's offer it fee for service.Good luck!







I am a nationally certified MT in private practice, and teach at a nationally accredited school.


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## Karen A. (Apr 12, 2002)

Mrs. Mason ,no message parlors??!! Wheres your sense of adventure? LOL!! I can just see all the local parlors getting bombarded by respectable ladys with health peoblems. They wouldn't know what to do about us!! Karen


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## M&M (Jan 20, 2002)

LoL...Ok, massage parlors would be the place to visit AFTER the spa, when you're feeling all relaxed and happy...lolDOH - Thanks for answering the question better than I gasgirl...I should have known just to wait for you


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